The union vote

Written By: - Date published: 9:38 am, August 27th, 2013 - 106 comments
Categories: leadership, mana - Tags:

The Right has been doing a massive amount of speculation on the Labour leadership race (sure, the Left would do the same if National ever let its members choose it’s leader, but you wouldn’t expect to be treated as neutral observers). The Right’s latest theory is that the unions will use their votes to choose the leader.

Even Vernon Small fell for this line saying the EPMU is ‘leaning’ to Robertson. But it ignores a rather important fact. The unions are not unitary bodies in this election that can ‘lean’ one way or another. The unions’ votes will be decided by delegates and individual members.

Most of the unions, including the largest the EPMU, are dividing their vote among their delegates, who are elected and responsible to the members. The second-largest, the SFWU, is dividing up its vote to let each individual member votes. Elected national executives may endorse a candidate, but it’s not known that they will, and members won’t be bound by it. (for all the specifics, you can read the rules here)

Labour’s new leader selection process a reaction against entrenched hierarchies and is about empowering ordinary members. No-one is in a position to promise the union members’ votes, or any other votes, to any contender.

106 comments on “The union vote ”

  1. Fisiani 1

    Of course the unions will use their massive 20% to anoint a leader who will promise the most to the unions.

    • lightly 1.1

      It can write, but it can’t read

    • Colonial Viper 1.2

      And the half million or so NZ union members are looking forwards to it.

      • Melb 1.2.1

        Promising the most to the union leadership does not always equal the best deal for union members.

    • billbrowne 1.3

      Yeah, the unions which are actually a union of the people who make up the union.

      The clue to the make up of the unions is actually in what they are called (unions).

    • Tracey 1.4

      um, yes… and?

      At least everyone in NZ knows the level of influence these particular unions have, unlike National and AVT who cling to their right to be influenced by people and companies the public never know about.

      At the risk of putting some fact into the hysteria

      “A2 The election process for each affiliate will differ. They will be based on the following systems:
      DWU

      The ballot will be exercised by delegates to the National Conference according to the Rules of the DWU Te Runanga Wai Inc. In the case of a delegate being ineligible to vote due to membership of another political party then the vote will be exercised by their duly elected deputy.
      EPMU

      The ballot will be exercised by the delegates to the National Conference. In the case of a delegate being ineligible to vote due to membership of another political party then the vote will be exercised by their duly elected deputy.

      MUNZ The ballot will be exercised by delegates to the National Council, representative of every branch of the Union. In the case of a delegate being ineligible to vote due to membership of another political party then the vote will be exercised by their duly elected deputy.
      MWU The ballot will be exercised by delegates to the National Conference. In the case of a delegate being ineligible to vote due to membership of another political party then the vote will be exercised by their duly elected deputy.

      RMTU The ballot will be exercised by delegates to the National Conference. In the case of a delegate being ineligible to vote due to membership of another political party then the vote will be exercised by their duly elected deputy.

      SFWU All eligible financial members of the Union will be indirectly informed through FaceBook, e-mail (where on record), text (where on record), worksite notices and through workplace delegates that they have a vote and how to vote in the process. The vote can be activated in two ways. The members can either turn up at any of the advertised election husting meetings, where they can be issued with and can cast a ballot (to be administered by SFWU staff), with the ballot being sealed at the end of the meeting; those voting will be checked off against a full list of eligible members by the Returning Officer or their appointee. The SFWU will appoint a Deputy Returning Officer for each meeting, and the Returning Officer may also appoint a scrutineer for the SFWU voting. If the member lives more than 32km from the location of any of those meetings/they have a personal emergency/they have a disability that prevents them attending and voting at a meeting, they may apply to the SFWU Deputy Returning Officer for a postal vote prior to the round of meetings commencing; if approved, that will be issued by the NZLP, and will be returned in the normal way. The SFWU will make available appropriate resources to the Returning Officer to enable this process to occur.”

    • Tom Gould 1.5

      Interesting how the media never write a word about voting at company AGMs which are, of course, entirely democratic and open and transparent, with a complete absence of block voting or undue influence or gerrymander. These things are reserved exclusively for the left, when ever they have a vote about anything. Never the right. Heaven forbid.

  2. I’d like to back this. As I’ve noted in Gaynz.Com columns, Louisa Wall is backed by the SFWU and backs Cunliffe, while Grant Robertson is a PSA member. Union voting will therefore not be monolithic. I imagine that there are probably diverse opinions over who is the best candidate at the CTU’s Out @ Work LGBT group, for that matter.

    • Tracey 2.1

      SFWU

      One financial member = one vote.

      “SFWU All eligible financial members of the Union will be indirectly informed through FaceBook, e-mail (where on record), text (where on record), worksite notices and through workplace delegates that they have a vote and how to vote in the process. The vote can be activated in two ways. The members can either turn up at any of the advertised election husting meetings, where they can be issued with and can cast a ballot (to be administered by SFWU staff), with the ballot being sealed at the end of the meeting; those voting will be checked off against a full list of eligible members by the Returning Officer or their appointee. The SFWU will appoint a Deputy Returning Officer for each meeting, and the Returning Officer may also appoint a scrutineer for the SFWU voting. If the member lives more than 32km from the location of any of those meetings/they have a personal emergency/they have a disability that prevents them attending and voting at a meeting, they may apply to the SFWU Deputy Returning Officer for a postal vote prior to the round of meetings commencing; if approved, that will be issued by the NZLP, and will be returned in the normal way. The SFWU will make available appropriate resources to the Returning Officer to enable this process to occur”

    • Pete 2.2

      The PSA is unaffiliated, and staunchly so. To be otherwise would call into question the political neutrality of public servants while on the job.

  3. Which pretty much reflects LGBT general opinion, too. I’ve had emails on my recent articles on the Labour leadership which congratulate me for my objectivity and neutrality over Cunliffe’s candidacy, from LGBT Cunliffe supporters. I would also like to acknowledge that I do not believe that Cunliffe backers are motivated by homophobia in this context, despite attempts by some right-wing trolls to stir the pot on this issue.

    As Gaynz.Com’s politics correspondent, I want to offer David Cunliffe and Shane Jones an opportunity to put their case for Labour leadership forward in our online publication. Both candidates will receive fair and equitable treatment.

  4. Plan B 4

    The best thing about the contest is that it gives Labour some needed media oxygen. essential for survival

  5. northshoreguynz 5

    A legitimate question; does a union member, who is also a Labour party member get two votes?

    • Pete 5.1

      I don’t see why not. I wouldn’t have an issue with Labour MPs having an extra vote as party members, either.

    • NZFemme 5.2

      David Farrar says yes. (I’m not a follower of kiwiblog in general, but have been keeping an eye on the blog since Shearer resigned)

      “…Each EMPU delegate will get approximately 46 times as much of a say as a normal Labour Party member (if they are a member, they get an additional vote in that section also). A MWU delegate will get 16 times the say of a normal Labour Party member…”(from kiwiblog-Aug 26th)

      • felix 5.2.1

        lol, I like how he’s based his calculations on “union delegate” instead of “union member”.

        He’s counting on his readers not to know the difference.

        • Melb 5.2.1.1

          But it’s the EPMU and MWU delegates that will ultimately be casting their vote in the ballot, not the members. That’s why the distinction has been made.

          • felix 5.2.1.1.1

            Oh I get that, but it’s still disingenuous to compare a delegate voting on behalf of a large number of members with an individual part member voting on behalf of themselves.

            But if he mentioned the real numbers the weighting would be obvious and he wouldn’t be able to whisper Pssssst! Jimmy Hoffa runs the Labour Party

            But really, it’s hilarious for anyone from National to criticise the details of the democratic system of another party when they themselves have none.

            • Matthew Whitehead 5.2.1.1.1.1

              To be fair, the system really is only 40% democratic. Weighting the affiliate votes up to 20% (bad enough) and the caucus votes up to 40% (outrageous) isn’t democratic, it’s something more approaching oligarchy.

              Of course, it should still be remembered that the Labour Party is still (to my knowledge…) the second-most democratic party in our country now that it at least allows a weighted vote on leader. National party members don’t get to criticise unions possibly getting additional say (assuming their numbers are small compared to their allocation of the 20%- some may get LESS say than a regular member, which is another weird thing about this odd hybrid system) when they don’t decide ANYTHING about their party AT ALL, unless of course they’re in the smoky back rooms doing deals.

              Now, that’s not saying Labour doesn’t have a long way to go either. There’s still no member influence on list selection, and the members need to vote on an equal basis with individual union member affiliates and caucus. But they’ve made a great first step to a more open and representative party process.

              • felix

                Not sure why you think including affiliates makes it less democratic.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Agree, felix. The structure reflects the nature of the party, its history and traditions. Mind you, I’m told there should be a clear distinction between management and governance, so perhaps we should consider whether it’s best practice for caucus to have a vote 😉

      • Tracey 5.2.2

        Isn’t it great how everyone has so much information about Labour’s processes? Shame the same can’t be said for National and Act and their ilk.

        Surely a delegate has a seemingly greater say because they are representative of union members in that particular union/branch as a group? He is pointing out the obvious while trying to make it sound mischievious.

        It is of no matter how many votes the unions affiliated to the Labour party have. It’s their party too?

      • Tracey 5.2.3

        …and we will never know how much say certain individuals or businesses get in National and ACT Mps vote for anything…cos it’s a secret..

        • Wayne 5.2.3.1

          Tracey,

          I have participated in several leadership changes. I can tell you the Caucus members make the decision (as in fact did Labour until 2 years ago). No-one from any company ever rung me to tell me how to vote. But of course party members expressed their views to me (as was the case with Labour under the old system).

          Caucus members jealously preserved their autonomy in how they decide. After all there is no point battling to get into Caucus if you surrender your power to outsiders. Which is why the speculation on this site about shadowy outsiders deciding for National is nonsense.

          Having said all that, I can see advantages in giving members a more formal say.

          But it also has risks, which I think David Shearer suffered, since he did win the party member vote. He was always being white anted, especially on this site. However, I recognise that would not have continued if he had been more effective as Leader of the Opposition..

          • Wayne 5.2.3.1.1

            That should have read DS did NOT win the membership vote.

          • chris 5.2.3.1.2

            @Wayne…” After all there is no point battling to get into Caucus if you surrender your power to outsiders”

            Now this is where the problem lies with National and Labour previously.

            Party members are NOT the outsiders, constituents are NOT the outsiders.

            The people are exactly who MP’s should be listening to.

            Multi Nationals are the outsiders, NSA and other spook equivalents are the outsiders.

      • NZFemme 5.2.4

        Yes. He’s trying super hard to make a case for “big scary unions still wield too much power”, when the first media attempts based on lies – block voting -was dismissed and retracted. *Looking at you Granny Franny.

        • Tracey 5.2.4.1

          He seems to be leaving out that due to many efforts over the last 30 years only about 25% of the workplace are in unions…

          So I guess what he means is

          “holy crap, union members get higher wages than non union members, imagine if that gets out? Membership of unions might increase.”

    • Colonial Viper 5.3

      A legitimate question; does a union member, who is also a Labour party member get two votes?

      I think so; also worth bearing in mind that the value of both votes will not be the same. Individual affiliate member votes are worth much less than Labour Party member votes, which are worth much less than the vote of a caucus MP.

      Farrar’s musings about how valuable a delegate’s vote attempts to obscure the fact that individual union members votes are weighted very low.

      • Skinny 5.3.1

        Yes it’s 2 votes and the value differs. People have to get real, I had a delegate come see me this morning, he is not into politic’s and as I am, he asked who do I recommend he vote for? I outlined my opinion of each candidate and what they bring for our collective of members. So Cunliffe fits our brief & he will join in and vote accordingly as he best suits our needs.

        I really think people bemoaning from the outside know Cunliffe is heads and shoulders above the rest. The rank & file of the membership will determine the result which will be overwhelmingly for our hero DC.

        • Skinny 5.3.1.1

          * that’s Labour party members I refer to above.

        • Tracey 5.3.1.2

          would you mind telling us what you told him about each of them, and what you think they offer for the collective membership? I am genuinely interested.

          I am struggling to find much about what Jones or Robertson really stand for.

          • Colonial Viper 5.3.1.2.1

            Robertson has spent his public career shying away from stating on record any controversial positions, or indeed any positions deviating too far from politically and economically orthodox (status quo neolib capitalist) thinking.

            It’s a Shearer Mk II ticket.

            • McFlock 5.3.1.2.1.1

              lol

              Nah, you’re just beating the same drum.

              • Colonial Viper

                If you have access to documents or speeches where Robertson has set forth his vision of NZ society or NZ economy, please feel free to link.

                • McFlock

                  Why would I bother looking? It’s not like you’d suddenly stop suggesting that anybody you don’t cultishly follow has neoliberal sympathies.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    So you’ve never actually seen any documents or heard speeches where Robertson has set forth his vision of NZ society or the NZ economy?

          • Skinny 5.3.1.2.2

            Ha ha funny girl… well Jones was easy all I had to say was John Key said yesterday Shane is a good bloke, so I won’t repeat excatly what his blood mouthed response was to that, in short ” well f*** Jones then. Robertson’s was well…you know our HQ is in Wellington & his nick name is beltway Grant, who finished 3rd in his electorate seat. Oh shit beaten by the Greens aswell..again f*** him. And Cunliffe I showed him a message from before Shearer dropped out. “excellent mate keep in touch.” enough said *wink

        • Luka 5.3.1.3

          In your opinion, do you think that the media is trying to make a contest out of a non-event. And perhaps, in relaity, that Cunliffe has this? (I am a DC supporter) and praying so! I dislike ABCs, and everything they stand for!

        • Luka 5.3.1.4

          In your opinion, do you think that the media is trying to make a contest out of a non-event. And perhaps, in reality, that Cunliffe has this? (I am a DC supporter) and praying so! I dislike ABCs, and everything they stand for!

    • Te Reo Putake 5.4

      I’ve got two votes, could have been 3. One as an LP member, one as a SFWU member. I’m also a member of the EPMU, but not a voting delegate to conference, which is how it’s done under their rules. So, according to Farrar’s calculations, I’m approximately 94000 times more powerful than the average National Party member.

  6. felix 6

    I don’t know about that, Eddie. I once saw a film about Jimmy Hoffa and the Teamsters and it clearly showed that unions are run from the top down by shadowy organised crime figures in dark smoky rooms.

    Also this one time in band camp, the Cooks & Stewards ruined my holiday.

    • QoT 6.1

      felix, I can’t believe you’d give credence to such a cartoonish portrayal of the realities of union politics.

      Season 2 of The Wire was a far more accurate depiction.

  7. LOL.

    Union members will do what they are told to do.

    • Tracey 7.1

      Just like National will do what the money tells them to do.

      No Brash No cash ring any bells???

    • NZFemme 7.2

      I think you’ll find that the 22,350 SWFU members who get to vote individually will beg to differ with you.

    • Te Reo Putake 7.3

      Poor Brett, he’s obviously someone who’s never been to a union meeting, let alone got his head round how democracy works in practice.

    • framu 7.4

      Do you have to work at being this dense brettie boy? Or does it just come naturally?

      • fender 7.4.1

        There’s a condition where people seemingly send txt messages in their sleep. Brett has a condition that sees him making comments on blog sites while sleeping.

    • Rodel 7.5

      No we don’t. Wherever do you get your ideas? My evidence contradicts your “evidence.”

    • millsy 7.6

      Piss off Brett. Just because you want unions to be banned and wages and conditions to be forced down to sweatshop level.

      I say again:

      IF YOU ARE ANTI UNION YOU ARE ANTI DEMOCRACY.

      When a dictator siezes power, the first thing he does is go after the trade unions.

      [lprent: Too many CAPS ]

      • Brett Dale 7.6.1

        Millsy:

        Everybody should have the right to join a union, just as everybody should have the right NOT to join a union. It should be a choice.

    • QoT 7.7

      Unlike you, the totally free-thinking independent dude who can’t even google basic shit.

      • Brett Dale 7.7.1

        QOT:

        Or you, who cant form a sentence without saying fuck or shit.

        I stand by my point, union members will vote for, who the union leaders tell
        them to.

        • QoT 7.7.1.1

          Oh fuck, I’m fucking swearing again aren’t I? Thank fuck you pointed it out, I’m clearly too fucking stupid to know what I’m shitting typing.

          And yes, dear, I understood your point. It’s just a stupid one, but I understand. See, you have to tell yourself that union members are just timid sheep, otherwise you’d have to ask yourself why you let your boss fuck you over instead of being part of a collective agreement which guarantees you decent pay and conditions.

          • Brett Dale 7.7.1.1.1

            QOT:

            Old sweet nips herself is proving how hard she is again.

            I judge the unions by personal experience and the experiences of former
            co workers and if you dont like that you can go fuck yourself.

          • Brett Dale 7.7.1.1.2

            QoT:

            But seriously my last employer was amazing, he wasnt a union guy and he was the best
            boss I have had in my life time. You couldnt ask for a better boss.

            • Colonial Viper 7.7.1.1.2.1

              Good bosses know that there are plenty of shit bosses and shit employers out there. Hence the need for widespread union membership.

            • weka 7.7.1.1.2.2

              How about you tell us the stories about yourself and co-workers who did what they were told by the unions.

              • weka:

                Years and years back, we told certain people, we supported their rights, if they wanted to be in the union, but it wasnt for us> let me put it this way, the treatement we received, wasnt nice, i guess those union members werent about choice, like we were.

                • weka

                  ” we told certain people, we supported their rights, if they wanted to be in the union, but it wasnt for us>”

                  What?

                  And what makes you think that all unions now behave in a way that compels their membership to do what the union says?

                  • weka:

                    IMHO that is what the union is about, making sure all union
                    members are in line with what the union heads say.

                    • weka

                      You can think that Brett, it doesn’t make it real. Unless you can demonstrate that this is what is happening now in NZ while the Labour leadership election is going on, I’m going to assume you are making shit up.

                    • fender

                      But but “years and years back” some shit went down and it’s caused a serious allergy for poor wee Brett. Like the time he missed the bus, now all buses are bad in Brett’s tiny mind.

  8. Loraine 8

    David Cunliffe is the person John Key is most afraid of. It’s a bit rich John Key saying “The question for New Zealanders is will that deliver economic growth and jobs and all the evidence is that it won’t.” Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
    David Cunliffe is far more likely deliver jobs to the middle and lower income earners than Key. Key and his government have only made things more difficult for those in the middle to lower income bracket and ruined the country’s good ecological name in the process.
    Of course Key is having a go at derailing Cunliffe’s bid for the labour leadership. He knows Cunliffe is the man to beat him so he is doing his best to rubbish him. Cunliffe is a very very clever man, but unlike Key he has a heart and cares for those not so well off. He stuck with labour through all that shit that was put on him by Shearer and his cronies.
    Helen Clark thinks Cunliffe is the man to take down Key and so do a heck of a lot of the rest of us who have had enough of being shafted by the Key government.
    Go get ’em David Cunliffe! You have my vote in the bag.

  9. Jenny Michie 9

    According the rules which I’ve just printed off (3.3 and 3.4) members who are separately entitled to vote in more than one section of the College can do so. So that’s MPs and affiliate members. However affiliate members who are members of another political party can’t vote.

    I don’t think union members vote as they’re told to, anymore than other Labour Party members do. Certainly in general elections a considerable number of union members voteNational which always leaves me scratching my head, but that’s democracy for you.

    • Tracey 9.1

      but Jenny Brett must be right because unions are just pure evil and bullies and the business interests that drive National and Act are just like teddy bears but with more money.

  10. outofbed 10

    Might be a worth having another look at this eh?

    what have unions ever done for us

  11. alwyn 11

    You had better have a word with Helen Kelly about this.
    Last week, Friday I think but I can’t track it down on the Morning Report part of their web-site, she said words to the effect that “The unions will vote for the candidate who is best for the unions”. She then realised what she had said and altered it to “er .. best for the party” .
    She obviously thought she could predict and reading betwen the lines control the union vote.

    • Jimbo 11.1

      Helen was misinformed. If you read the rules you’ll see they actually don’t allow block voting. Helen’s confusion is probably due to the fact the CTU is not an affiliated union and therefore Helen has no actual role in the union section of the Labour Party election. Why she was speaking on it is a mystery.

    • Jimmie 11.2

      Was on TVNZ report at 6pm – I saw it as well.

  12. Sosoo 12

    Thanks for this Eddie. I know that I’m not the only person who wondered whether the union elites might get their way. Looks like that is unlikely to happen.

  13. weka 13

    Am I the only one who still doesn’t get how the 40/40/20 thing works? Can anyone explain it as if to someone who knew absolutely nothing about the situation?

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      1) The Labour Leader is chosen by a vote between the caucus, the party members and Labour’s union affiliates.

      2) The share of the vote is split 40/40/20. This means that caucus and party members have the same say; affiliates have 20% of the say.

      3) If you are a party member, the voting will be by post, and the system allows you to rank your candidates 1-3 in order of your preference.

      • karol 13.1.1

        Also, added to that, the preference of each union member is worth less than 1 whole vote – there’s is a proportional numerical calculation to maintain the 40/40/20 share.

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.1.1

          Yep. And with 34 Labour MPs, each MP’s vote will have a 40% / 34 MPs weighting. That is, each MP will have 0.85% of the total say.

          If Shearer abstains, as has been noted by the Herald, the 40% figure will be divided amongst just 33 MPs.

      • Skinny 13.1.2

        Here the hustling meetings dates/times/venue;

        Details of twelve meetings spread across New Zealand have been announced as the unprecedented Labour leadership race enters its next phase. 
         
        Each will involve all three Leadership candidates – David Cunliffe, Shane Jones and Grant Robertson – and will be organised around a two-hour format involving speeches from all candidates, questions and answers from the audience and a mix and mingle afterwards.
         
        The first hustings meeting will be held in Levin, during Labour’s Region 3 Conference, at 1pm on Saturday 31st August.  The next day will see two meetings in Auckland and on Monday 2nd September the hustings meeting will be in Whangarei.  Over the next three days the events will be in Hawkes Bay, Tauranga and Hamilton. 
         
        After a one day break the hustings resume with two on Saturday 7th September, in Nelson and then Wellington.   The series completes with hustings in Dunedin, in Labour’s historic birthplace of Blackball on the South Island’s West Coast and – the final event, on Tuesday 9th – Christchurch, location of Labour’s 97th Annual Conference to be held at the start of November. 
         
        The meetings also offer an opportunity for members of the Service and Food Workers to cast their votes.  Party members who have received their votes in the mail can vote by post, vote electronically or vote through the ballot box at the meetings.
        Date      Time     Location              Venue
        Saturday 31/08/2013      1pm – 3pm         Levin     Horowhenua Events Centre, A&P Show Grounds Levin
        Sunday 1/09/2013            Afternoon           Auckland             TBC
                        6pm       Auckland             Western Springs College Hall
        Monday 2/09/2013          6pm       Whangarei          Forum North, Whangarei
        Tuesday 3/09/2013          Evening                Hawkes Bay        TBC
        Wednesday 4/09/2013  7pm – 9pm         Tauranga             Wesley Centre  100   13th Ave Tauranga
        Thursday 5/09/2013        7pm – 9pm         Hamilton              Te Rapa Racecourse  Centennial Lounge, Hamilton
        Saturday 7/09/2013         1pm – 3pm         Nelson  Victory Community Centre, 2 Totara St, Victory, Nelson.
                        Evening                Wellington          Wellington Girls High College TBA
        Sunday 8/09/2013            3.30pm Dunedin               Kings & Queens Performing Arts Centre, 270 Bay View Road, South Dunedin
        Monday 9/09/2013          Evening                West Coast         Blackball / Greymouth
        Tuesday 10/09/2013       7.30pm – 9.30pm             Christchurch       Christian Cullen Lounge, Addington Raceway, Christchurch

    • Te Reo Putake 13.2

      I’ll give it a go, Weka!

      Each sector has a percentage of the overall vote, making a total of 100%. Each sector votes according to its own rules and the results will be divvy’d up on a proportional basis.

      So the result might look like this:

      Caucus has 40% of the total vote, split 3 ways, so perhaps 15% Cunliffe, 15% Roberston, 10% Jones.

      The unions have 20%, so perhaps 10% Cunliffe, 9% Robertson, 1% Jones.

      The members have the remaining 40% and from what I read around here, that’ll go 39% Cunliffe, 1% Jones (thanks Takare, you done good) Nil votes Robertson.

      Then they all get added together and Cunliffe is declared the winner.

      The important thing to remember is the proportionality. The votes get spread according to the percentage won in each sector and being the most popular candidate in a sector does not mean you ‘win’ the sector. All voters get to nominate a second preference, so if there isn’t an outright winner, the loser (Jones) gets eliminated and the secondary votes are re-distributed to the the two remaining candidates.

      If there is a tie at that point, then we move to the swimsuit section, where the candidates are invited to talk about world peace while arm wrestling each other in a pool of jelly. Probably.

      • Takere 13.2.1

        Jonesee did good today at the epmu meeting in Manukau. He got a great reception from the PI brothers and sista’s. So I’m guessing that pathetic 1% score might just be a little higher. But I didn’t expect a fair contest from the party anyway. With an attitude like yours kinda tells me the contests rigged already.

        • bad12 13.2.1.1

          Is that the meeting where TV3 conducted a small poll of those attending and Cunliffe got the nod by something like 40 to 1 from the workers,

          Listen s**t-bag, do yourself a favor and do not come around here accusing people of rigging the Labour Party leadership vote,

          For 1 it’s the pathetic whine of a loser and for 2 someone is likely to be along soon to give you a small educative dose…

          • Takere 13.2.1.1.1

            Settle down ….. no need to try and come over all tuff and threatening …. Making threats ain’t cool man/woman.

            • bad12 13.2.1.1.1.1

              Where do you see the threat in my previous comment, i took my words to be a slightly less than friendly hint that insinuating that the Labour Party is ‘rigging’ the upcoming leadership vote is not acceptable behavior and as per the previous comment is simply the pathetic whine of a loser…

    • Lanthanide 13.3

      Basically the MPs vote, members vote and unions vote.

      Each block of votes is converted to a percentage, and then multiplied by the overall weighting.

      Eg say Cunliffe gets 19 / 34 caucus votes, he would get 55.88% of the caucus vote. This is then multiplied by 40%, so 55.88% * 40% = 22.35%.

      Say Cunliffe got votes equivalent of 69% of Labour party members, this is then multipled by 40%, so 69% * 40% = 27.6%.

      Say Cunliffe got votes equivalent to 41% of unions, this is then multiplied by 20%, so 41% * 20% = 8.2%

      Add up all of the final values: 22.35% + 27.6% + 8.2% = 58.15%

      So in this Scenario, Cunliffe would end up with 58.15% of the total weighted vote, which is a majority (more than 50%) so he would win.

      As it’s an STV vote, you would distribute 2nd preferences of the 3rd-placed candidate after the first round if none of the 3 candidates got over 50% on the first round. But that’s secondary to your question about how the 40/40/20 split works.

      • alwyn 13.3.1

        Bloody Hell. Will they actually manage to finish all the calculations before the next election?
        It’s even worse than working out who the MPs will be using the Sainte-Lague formula that we have for the MMP parliamentary allocation of seats.

        • Lanthanide 13.3.1.1

          Actually I think it’s pretty simple.

          Convert each block into a percentage of that block, eg if there are 55,000 labour party members, and Cunliffe got 37,950 of them then he’d have 69% of that block. But that block is only worth 40% of the total, so multiply by 40%.

          Sainte-Lange formula is bizarrely weird. I don’t even try to understand how it works, it just seems to be magic.

          • alwyn 13.3.1.1.1

            Yes, I’ve reread your post and it is quite clear on how it works.
            To be fair so is the Sainte-Lague formula if you look at it carefully.
            I finally did the other day when working out exactly how many more votes Mana would have needed to get 2 or 3 seats in the house.

      • northshoreguynz 13.3.2

        Brilliant, thanks.

  14. Are we a country of idiots .The vote goes like this.Each section has a first past the post vote /The winner is declared and the winner has %40 ‘520 or in the Unions case / End result is who has the majority regardless of the number actual ,votes cast

    • Lanthanide 14.1

      Except you’re wrong. Maybe you should go read the actual rules for the vote. It doesn’t say anything about FPP, instead it talks about a proportional electoral college.

  15. Are we a country of idiots .The vote goes like this.Each section has a first past the post vote /The winner is declared and the winner has %40 ‘520 or in the Unions case / End result is who has the majority regardless of the number actual ,votes cast

  16. gnomic 16

    According to no less an authority than Winston Peters, we may well be a stupid nation. This opinion seemed to be based on the fact that John Key is well into his second term as Prime Minister. Moreover many of the citizenry appear to cling to the delusion that the weasel is a good leader.

  17. jaymam 17

    The union vote isn’t going to matter much if Labour doesn’t get into power.
    So the unions should choose the leader best able to beat John Key. That leader is not Little or Robertson. Both of those will be excellent as ministers in a Labour government.
    Labour needs to attract the swinging middle voters. Special deals for unionists should not be part of the decision for a leader.

    • Skinny 17.1

      What you mean like a special deal National are about to launch on workers, the return to the employment contract act and some?

  18. Luka 18

    I am really concerned that the ABCs will stuff this up for us all, and if so; we are toast! Can anyone please tell me that my worries are unnecessary and that Cunliffe has got this? I really hope so. I have donate to his campaign, fingers crossed!

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Agreement between Indo-Pacific partners for supply chain resilience
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor joined ministerial representatives at a meeting in Detroit, USA today to announce substantial conclusion of negotiations of a new regional supply chains agreement among 14 Indo-Pacific countries. The Supply Chains agreement is one of four pillars being negotiated within the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Celebrating Samoa Language Week 2023
    Our most spoken Pacific language is taking centre stage this week with Vaiaso o le Gagana Samoa – Samoa Language Week kicking off around the country. “Understanding and using the Samoan language across our nation is vital to its survival,” Barbara Edmonds said. “The Samoan population in New Zealand are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Nationwide test of Emergency Mobile Alert system
    Over 90 per cent of New Zealanders are expected to receive this year’s nationwide test of the Emergency Mobile Alert system tonight between 6-7pm. “Emergency Mobile Alert is a tool that can alert people when their life, health, or property, is in danger,” Kieran McAnulty said. “The annual nationwide test ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Whakatōhea and the Crown sign Deed of Settlement
    ENGLISH: Whakatōhea and the Crown sign Deed of Settlement A Deed of Settlement has been signed between Whakatōhea and the Crown, 183 years to the day since Whakatōhea rangatira signed the Treaty of Waitangi, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Andrew Little has announced. Whakatōhea is an iwi based in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • New Chair appointed to New Zealand National Commission for UNESCO
    Elizabeth Longworth has been appointed as the Chair of the New Zealand National Commission for UNESCO, Associate Minister of Education Jo Luxton announced today. UNESCO is the United Nations agency responsible for promoting cooperative action among member states in the areas of education, science, culture, social science (including peace and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Tourism transformation starts with people
    Tourism and hospitality employer accreditation scheme to recognise quality employers Better education and career opportunities in tourism Cultural competency to create more diverse and inclusive workplaces Innovation and technology acceleration to drive satisfying, skilled jobs Strengthening our tourism workers and supporting them into good career pathways, pay and working conditions ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Tourism transformation starts with people
    Tourism and hospitality employer accreditation scheme to recognise quality employers Better education and career opportunities in tourism Cultural competency to create more diverse and inclusive workplaces Innovation and technology acceleration to drive satisfying, skilled jobs Strengthening our tourism workers and supporting them into good career pathways, pay and working conditions ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Te ao Māori health services more accessible for whānau
      Greater access to primary care, including 193 more front line clinical staff More hauora services and increased mental health support Boost for maternity and early years programmes Funding for cancers, HIV and longer term conditions    Greater access to primary care, improved maternity care and mental health support  are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Te ao Māori health services cheaper and more accessible for whānau
      Greater access to primary care, including 193 more front line clinical staff More hauora services and increased mental health support Boost for maternity and early years programmes Funding for cancers, HIV and longer term conditions    Greater access to primary care, improved maternity care and mental health support  are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government’s work for survivors of abuse in care continues
    The Government continues progress on the survivor-led independent redress system for historic abuse in care, with the announcement of the design and advisory group members today. “The main recommendation of the Royal Commission of Inquiry’s Abuse in Care interim redress report was for a survivor-led independent redress system, and the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Two brand new mental health facilities opened in Christchurch
    Health Minister Ayesha Verrall has opened two new state-of-the-art mental health facilities at the Christchurch Hillmorton Hospital campus, as the Government ramps up its efforts to build a modern fit for purpose mental health system. The buildings, costing $81.8 million, are one of 16 capital projects the Government has funded ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government invests more than $24 million in regional projects
    The Government is continuing to invest in our regional economies by announcing another $24 million worth of investment into ten diverse projects, Regional Development Minister Kiri Allan says. “Our regions are the backbone of our economy and today’s announcement continues to build on the Government’s investment to boost regional economic ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Budget 23 supports the growth of Māori tourism
    An $8 million boost to New Zealand Māori Tourism will help operators insulate themselves for the future. Spread over the next four years, the investment acknowledges the on-going challenges faced by the industry and the significant contribution Māori make to tourism in Aotearoa. It builds on the $15 million invested ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • First Bushmasters ready to roll
    Defence Minister Andrew Little has marked the arrival of the first 18 Bushmaster protected mobility vehicles for the New Zealand Army, alongside personnel at Trentham Military Camp today. “The arrival of the Bushmaster fleet represents a significant uplift in capability and protection for defence force personnel, and a milestone in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Humanitarian support for the people of Sudan
    Aotearoa New Zealand is providing NZ$3.5 million to help meet urgent humanitarian needs in Sudan, Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The severe fighting between the Sudan Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces has had devastating impacts for civilians. At least 705 people have been killed and 5,287 injured. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Clean-up at Hawkes Bay facility to help region deal with cyclone waste
    Repairing a Hawke’s Bay organic composting facility devastated by Cyclone Gabrielle is among the latest waste reduction projects getting Government backing, Associate Environment Minister Rachel Brooking announced today. “Helping communities get back on their feet after the devastating weather that hit the northern parts of the country this year is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 8% pay boosts for GP & community nurses
    About 6,100 more GP, community nurses and kaiāwhina will be eligible for pay rises of 8% on average to reduce pay disparities with nurses in hospitals, Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. The top up comes from a $200 million fund established to remove pay disparities between nurses ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt turns the sod on new Jobs and Skills Hub for Hawke’s Bay
    New Jobs and Skills Hub to begin construction in Hawke’s Bay The Hub will support the building of $1.1billion worth of homes in the region and support Cyclone Gabrielle rebuild and recovery. Over 2,200 people have been supported into industry specific employment, apprenticeships and training, by these Hubs across NZ ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Community Housing Aotearoa Conference Speech
    Tēnā koutou e nga maata waka. Kia koutou te mana whenua tēnā koutou Ngā mate huhua o te waa, haere, haere, haere atu ra. Hoki mai kia tātou te kanohi ora e tau nei, Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā tātou katoa. Tēnā koutou i runga i te kaupapa o te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New mental health tool launched for small business owner-operators
    The Government has launched a new tool to help small business owner-operators manage and improve their mental wellbeing, Small Business Minister Ginny Andersen announced today. The Brave in Business e-Learning series is another tool the Government has delivered to support small businesses with their mental health and wellbeing. “A pandemic, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • TAB partnership helps secure future of racing industry
    Minister for Racing Kieran McAnulty has announced the approval of a 25-year partnership between TAB NZ and UK betting company Entain that delivers at least $900 million in guaranteed funding for the racing industry over the next five years. Entain, a UK based group that operates multiple sports betting providers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government project delivers more reliable and resilient water source to Northland
    The Government has delivered the first of three significant water security projects in Northland, boosting regional business and climate resilience, with the opening of Matawii reservoir today, Regional Development Minister Kiri Allan announced. A $68 million Government investment supported the construction of the reservoir, along with two other water storage ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Trade Minister to US to attend Ministerial meetings
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor will travel to Detroit tomorrow to represent New Zealand at the annual APEC Ministers Responsible for Trade meeting from 24 – 29 May. Whilst in Detroit, Damien O’Connor will also host a meeting of Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) Ministers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Murihiku Regeneration energy and innovation wānanga
    I want to start by thanking Ngāi Tahu and the Murihiku Regeneration Collective for hosting us here today. Back at the  Science and Innovation Wananga in 2021, I said that a just transition in New Zealand must ensure Iwi are at the table. This is just as true now as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Ambassador to Mongolia announced
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta today announced the appointment of diplomat Dr James Waite as Aotearoa New Zealand’s next Ambassador to Mongolia. He is currently the Deputy Head of Mission at the New Zealand Embassy in Beijing, a role he will continue to hold. “New Zealand and Mongolia share a warm and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government commitment to Māori Education continues
    Biggest-ever investment in property with more money for new sites and modernisation Roll-out of learning support coordination in kaupapa Māori and Māori Medium Schooling Boost in funding for iwi and schools to work together on Local Histories content Substantial support for Māori Education has continued in Budget 2023, including ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • More students to benefit from next round of Creatives in Schools
    Applications for the next round of Creatives in Schools will open on Friday 16 June 2023, Minister of Education Jan Tinetti and Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Carmel Sepuloni announced today during a visit at Te Wharekura o Mauao in Tauranga. “The Creatives in Schools programme funds schools and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to WasteMINZ conference, Hamilton
    Tena koutou katoa and thank you all for being here and welcoming me to your annual conference. I want to acknowledge being here in Tainui’s rohe, and the mana of Kingi Tuheitia. I hate waste. So much so that when we built our home in Dunedin, I banned the use ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Extra boost for Southland’s Just Transition
    Southland’s Just Transition is getting a further boost to help future-proof the region and build its economic resilience, Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods announced today.  “This Government is committed to supporting Southland’s just transition and reducing the region’s reliance on the New Zealand Aluminium Smelter at Tiwai Point,” Megan ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • PM concludes successful Pacific visit, confirms intention to visit India
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has concluded a series of successful international meetings with Pacific region leaders in Papua New Guinea. Prime Minister Hipkins secured constructive bilateral discussions with Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India, PNG Prime Minister James Marape, Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown and United States Secretary of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Agreed statement from NZEI, PPTA and the Minister of Education
    On Friday 19th May, Minister Tinetti facilitated a meeting between NZEI and PPTA with the Ministry of Education to discuss options for finding a way forward in the current stalled collective bargaining. The meeting was constructive, and the parties shared a willingness to work towards a solution. The following was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Five community energy projects kick start
    Eighty-nine households will soon benefit from secure, renewable, and more affordable energy as five community-level energy projects are about to get underway, Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods announced today.    Five solar projects – in Whangārei, Tauranga, Palmerston North and Christchurch – are the first to receive funding from the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand confirms recovery support for Cook Islands
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has confirmed New Zealand will provide NZ$15 million in emergency budget support for Cook Islands in its ongoing recovery from the impacts of COVID-19. New Zealand’s support was confirmed during a meeting with the Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown in Papua New Guinea today. “New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Budget 2023 provides significant investment in kapa haka
    The Government’s continued recognition of and support for the important place Kapa Haka has in Aotearoa was evident today at a celebration at Te Wharekura o Kirikiriroa Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Willow-Jean Prime said. “Our investment of $34 million over two years ensures that this kaupapa is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ’s biggest ever emissions reduction project unveiled
    The Government is partnering with New Zealand Steel to deliver New Zealand’s largest emissions reduction project to date, with half of the coal being used at Glenbrook steel to be replaced with electricity to recycle scrap steel.  Prime Minister Chris Hipkins made the announcement alongside Energy and Resources Minister Megan ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government welcome Waitangi Tribunal Wai 2750 report into homelessness
    The Government has welcomed the Stage One Waitangi Tribunal Wai 2750 – Housing and Housing Services Kaupapa Inquiry report into homelessness released today. Minister of Housing Hon Megan Woods and Associate Minister of Housing (Māori) Hon Willie Jackson as Co-Leads for the government, with Associate Minister of Housing (homelessness) Hon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • PM confirms details of Papua New Guinea visit
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has confirmed his upcoming visit to Papua New Guinea. The Prime Minister travels to Port Moresby on Sunday May 21, and will meet with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, PNG Prime Minister James Marape and Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown. He has also been invited ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Bill ensures ongoing reporting on tax system fairness
    A Bill requiring facts about the fairness and efficiency of New Zealand’s tax system to be reported and published annually has been tabled in Parliament today. Revenue Minister David Parker said the Taxation Principles Reporting Bill would ensure that tax information is reported against a set of fundamental tax principles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tax bill improves fairness at home and abroad
      NZ joins global effort to ensure multinationals pay a minimum rate of tax Tax on ACC, MSD lump sum payments changed to reduce amounts owing for some KiwiSaver topups for child carers taking paid parental leave Implementing changes to trustee tax and tax relief for flood-hit businesses Several measures ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New approach on law and order delivers
    Successful ‘circuit breaker’ pilot targeting repeat child offenders to be expanded to Hamilton, Christchurch and Auckland City Funding to maintain Police to population ratio achieved after 1800 extra Police officers added Creation of NZ’s first comprehensive digital Firearms Registry Modernising frontline police processes to free up time for officers Budget ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2023-05-28T02:30:43+00:00