- Date published:
9:25 am, January 25th, 2022 - 212 comments
Categories: covid-19, Deep stuff, internet, interweb, jacinda ardern, Media, politicans - Tags:
I have been astounded and bemused by the sorts of allegations being made by social media against Jacinda Ardern.
A quick trawl through different sites this morning found the following:
Most of these claims are from the dark recesses of the Internet and posted by 20 follower twitter accounts most of which coincidentally are followed by Jake Bezzant. One is actually by a world renowned media figure. Guess which one it is.
There are other claims which are frankly unprintable. Many of them involve Clarke Gayford and the the intensity of the rumours I have not witnessed since Helen Clark’s partner Peter Davis received similar attention.
This is pizzagate level insanity. Social media has a lot to answer for.
Well New Zealand certainly is a divided society and in many parts it is extremely racist.
But that has nothing to do with Jacinda
She has a fortune of over $25million is another common one…I heard it from Australian friends.
Just google it…they said…I did and there it..was.
Easily the most bizarre was 'she is really…a man'!
I had the 'fortune of millions' story enthusiastically related to me by a farmer friend.
He didn't like me suggesting that if that was the case the woman was a genius and would fit the mantra of the more money you accumulate, the more you make something of yourself the more you are to be esteemed.
The $5 he said she was getting for every vaccine administered? How do you reason with someone that thick, with no comprehension of how the world and systems operate?
But he’s 65+, is a farmer, is a National supporter and he thinks he knows better than other people how the country should be run.
Let's not forget the Italian army coming to NZ and taking over …
This one did the rounds in November, as investigated here …
I was sitting in a cafe with friends when this one was expressed by someone at the next table.
Our guffaws had no effect on the strength of their belief.
At the same cafe, a little later, I heard that the microchip would not only be used to cause pain at the command of "them", but that our very limbs will respond to "their" remote commands, and march us to whatever point they chose – over a cliff-edge, if we proved troublesome.
Again, waste of guffaw 🙂
My cat has 2 microchips (one stopped working) and the control it now has over me is phenomenal. And that’s without the usual Jedi tricks and cat stares. There’s a feral rumour that Jacinda Ardern has almost 5 million cats, including kittens, which surely would be worth an entry in the Guinness Book of World Records as the cat lady with the most cats.
What did your cat do to deactivate its microchip?
Every freedumb-loving New Zealander yearns to know.
I asked my cat and the answer was “meow” and then it walked off.
The problem with your cat:
A number of studies have been presented in recent years showing that the toxoplasmosis parasite affects its host even during the dormant phase. It has, for example, already been observed that rats become unafraid of cats and even attracted by their scent, which makes them easy prey. This has been interpreted as the parasite assuring its survival and propagation, since the consumed rat then infects the cat, which through its faces can infect the food that other rats might then proceed to eat. A number of studies also confirm that mental diseases like schizophrenia, depression and anxiety syndrome are more common in people with toxoplasmosis, while others suggest that toxoplasmosis can influence how extroverted, aggressive or risk-inclined an individual's behaviour is.
My cat only uses her microchip to command the cat door to open
Social media seems to provide a crucible for human nature to exhibit it's sociopathic tendencies. For individuals, there's a propensity to operate from the dark side. There's also a regressive trend towards tribalism evident throughout western civilisation.
Since the nation state arose through a sense of national identity (even when imposed from above by rulers), it puts common ground in question. Jacinda used common ground framing when the pandemic hit and it worked well – team of five million. However a minority strand of dissenters within soon became evident.
Partisans will always exploit an apparent divide. Binary framing kicks in. It operates tacitly even within a context of subgroups who disagree on some fundamentals – as illustrated by Trumpist subgroups with different collective identities. When a civilised ethos gets used as a tool by a control system, rebels tend to cluster. Cheerleaders for neoliberalism then are seen as operative agents of the control system and are demonised accordingly.
It makes sense for all to focus more on common ground than what divides people in these fraught times. Although the PM has done that well, there's a place for more insightful political management that engages with pathologies becoming evident in the media. Labour ought to hire social psychologists with relevant expertise.
''Jacinda used common ground framing when the pandemic hit and it worked well – team of five million. However a minority strand of dissenters within soon became evident.''
That minority demographic must become well ensconced in the middleclass for a poll and election shift. The problem is the middleclass aren't great thinkers.
The rich have strategies. The poor have cunning. The middleclass have Jacinda.
Yeah, which is why I feel Labour is still doing well in the public mind (despite various policy implementation failures & conspicuous lack of progress on a few important other fronts).
Bad-mouthing the team leader is what wackos do when they don't see themselves as part of the team. Middle NZ will be even more disgusted at that shit than Jacinda! It's unpatriotic. However unlike the USA patriot ethos evaporated here long ago so I don't blame the right for not using it. They're being realistic.
So when Luxon dissociates himself from the dissident nutters he's being sensible. He can only become PM if he converts the critical 3-5% swing-voters in the middle, and there's currently nothing to disillusion that bunch…
Whatever bull they (the muggas) try to push, the world knows we have the best Prime Minister and government working this problem. Other countries have all variously failed and flailed at dealing with the pandemic. Gratefully we have a leader totally taking advice from science and medicine, not the hoodoo ether of the anti-factors. Cheers, Jacinda and Labour. Mugga?, hmmm, working on that. Made up grossly goofy assertions?
Hear hear Kate.
Some don't know when they're well off.
We may consider this a reflection of the quality of political opposition in NZ.
There is no Welch among them to tell them "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"
Mind, decency hasn't proven to be the Rogergnomes strong suit either – all their promises are broken.
A common theme among right whinge nutters is that the government has had (up to 10 weeks) the summer off and are not prepared for covid. Jacinda comes in for a fair amount of this 'criticism' but the naysayers are not niggly, they accuse all the government of being on vacation.
Much of this is, of course, perpetrated by the Natz and Actoids, under the Goebbel's technique: tell a lie and repeat it often enough and it will begin to be believed.
But, like you, Micky, I have been frankly astonished at some of the things being said about the best PM in my lifetime (and that includes Norman Kirk).
There's a lot of misogyny and unbalanced nuttery out there.
The effortless passing of memes, image and text, on social media has created the acceptance of anything and everything amongst those people memes most easily effect.
Like racist jokes, ugly memes are accepted if they cause a giggle or a gasp. That's the danger they present, but like many other pithy communication forms, there's value in memes as well.
Labour quashed all National Party media with dual Tonga and Delta+Omicron responses.
Commentariat won't stabilise until February 8th when Parliament sits again.
From Feb 8 to June the story is ours and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
The 2022 Budget is going to be one of our biggest ever.
"One is actually by a world renowned media figure. Guess which one it is."
If the evidence is solid then maybe they should be outed.
This would be a public service.
You'd wonder why a 'world renowned media figure' would be concerned about an insignificant, tin-pot little country at the bottom of the world.
Because Jacinda Ardern is a world leader who eclipses his popularity on the world stage, that's why.
Jacinda Ardern's rise to high office is an affront to this narcissist, presenting as she does, an alternative polar opposite to his far right brand of politics.
While New Zealand follows its current path, right wingers cannot claim TINA
I mentioned to a certain 'world renowned media figure' on twitter that it must suck that neither Meghan Markel, Ash Sarkar or Jacinda Ardern would go a date with him and he blocked me. So sensitive.
Not to forget Diana Princess of Wales……the Orange Stain purported to woo her by ordering flowers in NY for delivery in London……much to the embarrassment of the subject of his lascivious Orange Stain fantasies.
Actually this comment bears a little more thinking about. The biggest fear of the British ruling class is their soft power following their hard power into the history books. It follows therefore that the worst crime you can commit in public in the UK is noticing their emperor have no clothes.
The bungling COVID response, Brexit, the rigidity of their class system, sending an aircraft carrier with hardly any aircraft on it to the South China sea in a ludicrously Quixotic display of "global power" – all evidence that the UK is a diminished, exhausted and declining island state whose moribund ruling class is incapable of even the slightest reforms and whose political institutions are redolent of decadence. They happy to complacently slip into an authoritarian slumber of Imperial nostalgia, and woe betide any unwelcome messengers from beyond the boundaries of their stale intellectual miasma.
If you wake up and realise the above, then the royal family suddenly is no longer impressive pomp and circumstance but rather a Disneyland-esque show of fantasy homage to a long vanished empire. What they fear most is being ignored, of North Asia and Asia-Pacific in general treating them as they have long deigned to treat others. Piers Morgan, Farage, the whole British press from the BBC to the Daily Mail are terrified lest Toto pulls back the curtain to reveal that the Wizard is not who Dorothy and the others thought he was.
She's making Murderoch's puppets look bad.
Think harder….Team of 5 Million stuck on an island at the bottom of the world….nothing to see here 🙄 Its perfect for control, monitoring and studying. Wait for it.
Envy of Jacindas popularity is driving right wing nastiness.
I think you are right TD. Some on this site will know that feeling well. When John Key was in the ascendancy, all Lefties could do was stew in their own juices from the sideline.
Now the show has changed and the brandy and cigars have lost their zing. Even the clink of billiard balls has become annoying.
However there's one difference between both tenures – Covid.
Covid has made a political mediocrity with a winning smile into a superstar. And Covid will take away what it has given eventually. I think it's that dumb luck with major disasters Jacinda has been able to front that has right wingers who are predisposed to nastiness becoming nasty.
If it's dumb luck, why were leaders in democracies around the world so unlucky?
Poor Scott, poor Boris, poor Donald …
History lesson, page 1: Events don't make leaders. Responses to the events do.
''If it's dumb luck, why were leaders in democracies around the world so unlucky?''
Jacinda is a woman. Good looking when she wants to be. Her speciality is empathy. Covid was preceded by the Christchurch massacre which put her on the world stage for starters. She is only the PM because Andrew Little decided not to contest the election and hand the leadership to Jacinda( a great move). If Andrew had contested the election and lost, who knows where Jacinda would be now. Luck stacked on luck.
Jacinda was the right person at the right time for the right disaster.
But her show is coming to an end. Starting this year.
The dick alarm just went off and it was so loud it cracked the wall and shattered a window.
Well, that’s enlightening
Any chance of explaining yourself instead posting infantile invective?
You’re asking me to explain acting like a dick? One of the hallmarks is selective self-awareness.
No, I'm asking you to explain the problem you have with my comment you have highlighted in your post.
Simple stuff – if you have an answer?
I don’t like commenters here acting like dicks. The ones who act knowingly as dicks are dickheads: they are smart arses who think they think with their heads but in reality only think with their dicks. For obvious reasons, I lack empathy with dicks and dickheads.
FYI, you have been a big blob on the dick radar for some time now and the TS Anti-Dick Defence System (ADDS) is now active.
deary deary me 🙂
A Freudian metaphor; it should have read blip instead of blob. Apologies.
You have no answer. What a waste of space you are.
The answer is blowing in the wind.
Don’t run into a Moderator, Blade, and I can’t say I didn’t try to warn you.
Blade lables Incognito "a waste of space"
I have a problem with your comment. The problem I see is your simplistic view of 'luck' and "luck stacked on luck."
Hillary was bloody lucky to climb Everest and lucky (with Tenzing) to be the first to the top. And lucky that no-one got there first. Lucky that a Tenzing venture the year before foundered on the weather and oxygen problems. Lucky he had the right boots. Lucky a group of porters didn't get sick. Lucky Hunt picked him.
And Richie McCaw? It all got down to the luck of having the parents he had.
''I have a problem with your comment. The problem I see is your simplistic view of 'luck' and "luck stacked on luck."
That depends on your perception.
You need to separate what is genuine effort and talent from what could be considered luck and easy circumstance.
That's the problem. The Hive members see things mainly as Jacindas' hard work and skill. I see her as a mediocre politician who has been very very lucky.
Never the twain shall meet.
Blade I can smell the envy your breath.
We all heard it, Incognito.
Some of us weren't too startled: we were expecting it.
Robert, I have finally worked you out.
You are the Andrew Ridgeley of this blog.
Maybe you could answer for ICNO.
Sure, you were being sly.
Re: your mention of Andrew Ridgeley…….projection or confession ?
As has been 'patiently' explained to Blade several times,
"the better the leadership, the luckier you are."
This country has been blessed with great leadership.
You can only hope – wouldn't put too much faith in the leader of the opposition if I were you. Luxon is a man. Good looking when he wants to be.
His speciality was running an airline.
Not too hard to run an airline when the previous CEO did a great job of standing it on it's feet and teaching it to run.
Ah, now I see what the angst is about. Thanks for that. Of course, if I had been asked to explain what I meant by those comments I would have.
I seriously forgot how touchy and wokey Lefties are.
As for Luxon, and National. I don't see them as a solution… but only as a finger in the dyke.
Well at least you're having a go
Intriguing Blade – what/who is "the dyke" in your metaphor?
If Little hadn't stepped down and Labour lost the 2017 election, Ardern would still have been deputy leader of the Labour party just like she was before. Little would most likely have resigned after the election, and Ardern would have acting leader. Probably would have become leader after a selection process, or maybe Robertson, and Ardern was still deputy.
You started by saying,
but before covid there was White Island, the Chch Massacre, and winning the 2017 election.
Mostly I see your comment as bluster, asserting something you want to be true (Arden isn't that good and will become unpopular soon) but without much evidence to support it.
''If Little hadn't stepped down and Labour lost the 2017 election, Ardern would still have been deputy leader of the Labour party just like she was before. Little would most likely have resigned after the election, and Ardern would have acting leader. Probably would have become leader after a selection process, or maybe Robertson, and Ardern was still deputy.''
But before covid there was White Island, the Chch Massacre, and winning the 2017 election
Agree again – but Covid was the icing on the cake. And Jacinda only had a small nation to lockdown – and it worked, but at a cost that is coming home to roost at the moment, made worse with the red light setting.
If we look at those before things Jacinda fronted, some weren't a big deal. White Island was basically an industrial accident. Winning the election was no big deal in reality. Superstar Key had gone. Bill English had the charisma of a barn door, and there was a tired Tory outfit that had done 10 years. Then Covid hit. Ten years is the usual limit for a political party in office. Then there was Jacinda. Bright, young, bubbly and offering a different vison to old politics. The Tories didn't have a chance.
In fact, looking back the Christchurch Massacre may have been the making of Jacinda.
''Mostly I see your comment as bluster, asserting something you want to be true (Arden isn't that good and will become unpopular soon) but without much evidence to support it.''
That's a bit rich considering some of the nonsensical bs thrown my way. Adern will become unpopular this year. The government is about to lose control on a number of fronts. Housing, being called out as liars by the medical fraternity ( see news tonight?). You name it.
Weka – do me a favour. Bookmark this thread. I am.
Ardern will start losing poll support. More people, organisations and businesses will lose all confidence in her and Labour. National and Labour will both limp to the next election.
But again, no evidential basis. Just predicting the future without specifying your prediction methodology. Pendulum?
Anyway, let's say your subtext sends the signal that you're tuned into the zeitgeist. Fair enough, but several of us have predicted Labour sliding down into the 30s during recent months. The next CB or RR may even show them in upper 30s with National mid 30s. That would put a bunch of us on the same page, you included.
My point is that minority consensus would be reflected in the new social reality whereas we currently live in the one created by the recent RM poll with a significant margin between National & Labour. You haven't said you believe that poll is wrong but you are commenting as though it didn't happen.
Oh, geez, Dennis. You have me by the short and curlies. I can't quantify what you ask. I don't know how to.
The nearest thing I can come up with is: ''I am trying to talk things into reality.''
Remember the Aussie cricket team? Even when they were losing they had a absolute belief they were winning. They are the most successful test cricket team of all times.
Reality is very malleable. The trick is finding the axis point to hammer so the present reality cracks and a new one emerges. That will go over the heads of many, but is well within your grasp.
I have decided to take a break for everyone's sake. I hope to come back for guest appearances when the troops need a pick-me- up.
I particularly like your posts. And those of Weka.
Bye Blade. A nice, understated flounce there. It's always a good time to have a reset. I did it a few months ago.
Just on Labour's polling though. When I went into the polling booth in late 2020 I had been thinking for a while about voting for a party other than Labour, but with pen in hand there was no way I was going to vote anything other than Labour.
It seemed churlish and ridiculous to vote for anyone other than Jacinda Ardern given her record on many things during the term, primarily NZ's Covid response. The good outweighed the bad for that administration by several orders of magnitude because of JA.
There is a lot of strange reckonings that in 2020, in the rural areas and towns, people were voting Labour to keep the Greens out. I think this is preposterous, and a lame excuse for National tanking so bad in those areas.
The truth is that a lot of people did what I did. Looked at the response and the numbers, and it was a no-brainer. JA and the government have done a world beating job. When the following numbers start to change, and I hope they do not, New Zealanders might reconsider support for the current government. Wouldn't count on it.
Covid-19 deaths per million:
No use going on about NZ's geographical isolation either, because you take the rough with the smooth. We are at a disadvantage because of our isolation in so many ways with freight costs, etc, so it's about time we got one back.
We've lost a mate in Blade; an AGW denying, Trumpy-lovin', lefty-baiting. Jacinda-belittlin' foot-stompin' good ol' boy!
Miss ya already!
Preferred PM or Labour losing support?
That's not a prediction, that's inevitable given the big surge from the handling of the pandemic and the polling settling down again. Already happening.
How will that be measured?
What does that mean?
Adern will become unpopular this year. The government is about to lose control on a number of fronts.
You could try spelling her name correctly. Both of these predictions are feasible, yet your confident assertion seems to lack a basis in our current reality. If someone describes your attitude as bluster, don't be surprised!
Look, I'm in the habit of criticising the govt/Labour and also the PM when circumstances make that appropriate. Are you here to add value via balance or merely to do partisan posturing? Political analysis & commentary works better when the focus is on things that matter rather than style or trivia. Just because some of the leftists here make a habit of issuing puerile partisan stuff doesn't meant it's a good idea for you to do the mirror image of that.
What's lacking nowadays in politics is rightists who can add genuine value via intellect & principle. I suspect you're capable of that so why not adopt it as praxis??
''You could try spelling her name correctly.''
Yeah, I like doing that on purpose. Come on, Dennis.
You make some good points. The problem is I don't analyse politics; I smell it. I think that's where the problems lies.
I will take your advice on board.
You've been 'praxised' – one of us, one of us…
Hard to see what the cost is. All I see is a pile of low profit (to the country in the form of taxes on profit ) businesses dying because they can't exploit immigration / tourism.
For the last 30 years I've been looking at tourism, overseas student education, and low-skill immigration patterns and asking WTF. What is the point of bringing in someone with a PhD in nuclear physics when we have been desperately short on people who can lay out a PCB or do a competent job on aircond systems.
With the limits on we have a significant wage increases in productive exporting enterprises because our exports across almost all sectors have been rising. A lot of that came from the low profit margin (to the country) primary sector businesses, but most of exporting intellectual property sectors have been soaring as well.
Trade surpluses from more exports, but also a reduction in wasteful imports, including kiwis taking overseas vacations.
Extremely low unemployment figures and low wasteful under utilisation of labour. Which also explains why the tax take has remained so healthy
Blade – you really seem to to have a cracked idea about what a economy does and how it runs. Right now our productivity rates are rising rapidly because, finally, even the dumbarse crony capitalists who support the National party are having to invest capital to improve productivity or they will go bankrupt from not being able to exploit cheap labour.
It sounds like you're a classic crony capitalist – too stupid to make it in the real export economy because your productivity is shit.
Low-paid tourism economy shrank
Low-paid hospitality economy shrank
Low-value international education shrank
Low wages pushed up
Welfare floor raised through minimum wage and high worker demand
Sure hasn't cured poverty,
The Side Eye’s Two New Zealands: The K Shape | The Spinoff
but we are compared to OECD healthier, robust, not particularly indebted as a % of GDP, and ready for the next crisis.
And Guiness world record for the shortest and most expensive Mercedes ride in the history of mankind.
PM Ardern's qualities were evident to all but the most blinkered long before ‘leader’ Collins raised an eyebrow. An uncomfortable truth for some, but truth nevertheless.
All before COVID – weird, huh? Suck it up, and be kind
So Blade, "that dumb luck with major disasters Jacinda has been able to front' "a political mediocrity" "Covid has made her."
Keep trying Blade, none of that type of utterance will take away from her ability to sift through dross to find the diamonds.
"Covid has made her" Well I'd add the word "stronger".
She has been thoughtful considered and sure footed in an ever changing situation. Her Leadership has kept the team on task over a long period.
Apart from a few misogynist men/leaders and antis, our PM is admired world wide.
It was NZ's "dumb luck " that cometh the hour cometh the woman.
Tired attack lines are just that no matter how often they are uttered or written.
'Tired attack lines are just that no matter how often they are uttered or written.''
I thought compared to the blinkered idealogues on this site, that my comments were quite complementary towards Jacinda.
"Complementary' to the seven bullet points in miskysavage's original post but neither 'complimentary' to her or yourself.
As for 'idealogues', well I have no idea but one thing that always identifies an ideologue is their inability to spell the word…….
Don't forget the comma after 'well'. And maybe after 'idea.'
Unlike prats who love scoring points, I accept this is a blog and not a gramma lesson or spelling bee.
You've come over all cambo blad.
Freudian tag there Blade. That aside – "prats"……brilliant.
The greatest genius in NZ politics is the shadowy figure in the PM's office who somehow arranges for exactly the right people overseas to attack her. How do they organise it? It's a masterstroke.
Tucker Carlson, Alan Jones, Piers Morgan, Nigel Farage, that senator from Arizona … it's a wishlist of desirable enemies, a perfect storm of stupidity. They all take it in turns to help out, with their idiotic interventions, guaranteed to piss off ordinary Kiwis.
"You've got enemies? Good! It means you stood for something" Churchill
Why? Did she commit a serious crime… was prosecuted and found guilty in a Court of law?
Why? Were they also implicated in “the crime”?
Why? They've already got a head.
How did she manage that and also attend week-end long Covid briefings and fronted a press conference on the Sunday – in Wellington.
So the person we saw getting vaccinated three times on the telly was someone pretending to be her?
So it goes on….
Sheesh the stupid. It hurts.
Oh no! Don't say we saw getting vaccinated three times on the telly and it could have someone pretending to be her! It'll be the invite to some sawdust-for-brains genius to tell us it was a media mock-up because she bought the media with millions.
Or that she was wearing a rubber arm 🙂
I never thought of that. I mean, Dr Fauci apparently bought the Wuhan Laboratory in China for millions and he got them to create the virus and release it into the community. Honest!
That's what some crackpot lady told me a couple of months back.
Most of the bs pointed at Jacinda is just reheated Michelle Obama hatred.
The man thing, the over the top wealth claims.
The lunatics on the right have no imagination and are easily lead into rabbit holes.
And the cruelest rumour of them all: that Jacinda & Clarke had bought property in shudder Southland!
that's where I would buy if I could 🙂
Why? (Genuine question, not a dig at Southland)
Stable communities, lots of people that give a shit about their neighbours, small population, good levels of resiliency in communities, well placed to manage climate change, relatively easy to grow staple crops and other foods, beauty, enough people doing regenag and regenerative projects that can be built on.
Sounds a lot like why I'll retire to Alexandra (probably)
Alex is great community wise I think. Not going to be a pleasant place as the climate crisis deepens though, it's already the driest part of NZ. Being willing to move again makes it more viable.
Heat, community, smaller size and the geographic location is what I'm after
Cromwell will probably be too expensive for me by the time I retire but Alex looks a decent second
Mind you Powerballs upto 12 million so you never know 😃
Have you been in Alex in winter? Or just holidayed in summer? Outside of the alps, in winter it is one of the coldest places in Otago.
I have. Bone chillingly cold!!
Triple glazing, properly insulated and a log burner does wonders add underfloor heating and you're good to go
Triple glazing etc. and, stay inside!
I'm picturing you, Pucky, seated in your over-stuffed armchair, thick woolly blanket over your knees, in front of your fire, coal-ablaze, hot mug of Bovril in hand, sheepskin-lined slippers afoot, merino-blend beanie pulled down eyebrow-level, steam curling from your mug and mouth, enjoying the eyeball-freezing Alexandra night air – ah! Don't breathe too deeply! Lungburn (it's the little town nearby to Alex!)
Close but I'm thinking more this:
As someone from Dunedin I am aware of the seasons in Central Otago
I'd take Alex winters over Dunedin winters any day.
Excuse the potential of the double entendre but I prefer it dry rather than wet so I agree with you
Alexandra is also expensive these days.But there's plenty of rabbit holes to climb into.
Roxburgh might be my plan b
Roxburgh is very cool.
Apart from living downstream from a bloody big dam.
I mean sure theres the potential of being washed away but apart from that…
That would be in the genre of
'" but apart from that" Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?' as Tom Lehrer put it.
I've always been the glass is half full kind of guy
Check your regional boundaries, Pucky!
Are you not aware of the plans for Otago and Southland to combine provinces and secede from NZ?
Those plans are Otago plans – Southland's not having a bar of them!
Come on Robert, we have shared history, shared culture, you know it makes sense.
Thank of all that could be achieved…
Those girls? Bluff girls all (few know this).
Otago has no further territorial demands beyond DHB amalgamation, honest. The exercises of the 4th Vino Division along the Clutha valley are just a routine systems shakedown.
But if you were to call our bluff, we might just call Bluff ours…
Knock yourself out! It's the supply lines to Bluff you'll need to consider…and the Bluffies themselves (best of luck – no shrinking violets, they!).
Otago/Southland could take on the world!
I could also be convinced to allow Canterbury to join as well, as long as they're aware the seat of power will always be south of the Waitaki
Nelson/Marlborough and the Chatham Islands have an open invitation
The West Coast…best we might be able to hope for is to respect their independence
Could? Have forever. Canters? Nah. Daft as. The Chathams and Tasman, communication lines are open, but they'd better sharpen-up. Coasters? Good on a coffee table, but beyond that…
I wouldn't normally allow Canterbury but they've got a pretty decent rugby squad and coach…
I don't really want to go to war with the Coast as they'll just take to the mountains and we'll never get them out, it'd be our own Afghanistan
No need to "go to war with the Coast" – just ignore them.
They're used to it.
Yeah but I quite like their glaciers…
Rapidly shrinking glaciers … weeps
I'll look you out a cosy wee cottage, weka 🙂
I'm very tempted.
I can 100% recommend The Batch cafe if you're Invercargill
Why would you go into Invercargill?
The satellites are where it's at. 🙂
Invercargill Airport and fly to Stewart Island is why.
Rivertons nice though.
I actually popped into your place last time I was down there and I was going to talk to you but I had to get to Te Anau
Maybe next time
As a Southland boy Robert, at least by adoption, can you tell me if it is true that Invercargill was the original model for the village of Brigadoon in the musical?
After all aren't they both places that only appear out of the mist for one day every hundred years? At least that is how your little village just before Antarctica seemed to me when I visited. My parents lived there way back in the dark ages but they did have the nous to move north before I was born.
It's true, Alwyn. I can confirm.
Like you, I'm saddened that you weren't delivered here and able to claim village-ship. However, if you were to recant, the town elders would consider your case, favourably, if I was to speak on your behalf. If you are successful, I'll hand-deliver the small silver key you'll need for..well, you'll know what for, when you feel it, cold and clear, in your palm.
Dear God no!
That lie is straight from InfoWars.
Talking to extended family who live down those rabbit holes……gayfords got a huge cocaine habit didn't ya know.
The stupid, it hurts.
Social media has a lot to answer for.
So censor the crap out of it. Ban, deplatform, demonetise and squat negative algorithms on top of anything that challenges corporate narratives. And create/ assign "fact checker" orgs as a second layer of censorship for anything that still gets through lest anyone get "the wrong idea".
Then y'know, "sorted" – social media will be PRAVDA – an answer free zone that answers for nothing.
Attacking the idea of checking facts, "And create/ assign "fact checker" orgs as a second layer of censorship" – what an odd comment!
I’m not attacking the idea of checking facts.
The Atlantic Council, Reuters (joint board members of Reuters and Pfizer), Johnston and Johnston – just some of the actors comprising the "fact checker" orgs. that I've stumbled across – none of them objective. All of them with skin in the game.
And google boosts them on search algorithms such that original sources are buried and people, knowing no better, assume the original source must be dodgy because the label of "fact checker" imparts a sense of impartial authority.
You noticed how many people reference them here as though they are the last word on a matter or point?
I suppose that if you wanted the facts about the composition of a particular milkshake, you'd want to hear from the milkshake manufacturer, at least 🙂
Not solely, perhaps, but at least.
So if I wanted to know about a chocolate,malted milkshake…I would be advised to contact the manufacturer of the milkshake ..machine…very good Robert.
Or the first word. As a reference point for an organisation that has some kind of standards that can be assessed. The argument still has to make sense.
Everyone has bias. The point is whether the bias is visible, whether the person is open and transparent about it, and whether people watching/reading/listening can see what the bias is and interpret information in that context.
I don't see how someone here linking to Reuters fact checking is too different from you linking to Campbell's youtubes.
I don't see how someone here linking to Reuters fact checking is too different from you linking to Campbell's youtubes
I guess the obvious difference would be that John Campbell has no ties to the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office and has not tendered for contracts to run media interference operations in third countries on behalf of the FCOs Counter Disinformation & Media Development division.
John Campbell does not have any representation on the Pfizer board either.
But sure, much of a muchness – a retired nurse educator and author of nursing textbooks versus a huge corporation knee deep in opaque institutions of the state.
A poor, retired nurse educator who makes videos for the betterment of humankind and maybe $200k in a good month.
Can't think of any motivation to pander to a particular audience, there.
Yes, but each still have their own bias.
All MSM has ties to something. The issue is whether that's transparent, and whether we can make sense of what they are saying and how the bias is influencing what they are saying.
You wrote – The point is whether the bias is visible..
I agree with that. But are you suggesting that you, and everyone who reads a "fact check" org tied to Reuters is fully aware of the state connections I signposted in my previous comment?
no, but I think most people watching Campbell won't be aware of his biases either.
And his relevant bias is…?
Which fact-checkers to you trust/use, Bill?
The ones with a Scottish name and accent
Is it Taggart? Now he had a Scottish accent.
I thought that one had a Scottish name but more of a North of England accent or perhaps one from Carlisle, 13 miles south of the border…..picking those nuances of accents!
I'm not saying the actual name because in 1562 or thereabouts they went into battle against my ancestors the Whites who belonged to the Lamonts who belonged to Clan Macgregor.
"Not saying the actual name"?
You sound like a friend of mine who visited Glencoe. He only put his first and middle name into the Visitor's Book. He wasn't game to put in his surname, which as I'm sure you will have guessed, was Campbell.
I had a Campbell and a Macdonald workmates and they often had a quick go at the other, mainly for laughs and admiration from the rest of us for their quick wittedness.
Here is a link to the Macgregor/Campbell feud
I don't tend to outsource my capacity for critical thought and analysis Robert.
That was not the question but good slip slide away. One single person cannot hope to know the truth or not of every single idea/statement in the world. If you don't check facts then so much just becomes idle speculation or opinion.
Opinion not based on facts or cited is Ok for an amuse bouche but not the main course.
Or you could write a fairy story.
Fact checking has everything to do with critical thinking. It is those critical thinkers who lead us to the best solutions
'Some men see things as they are and ask why, I dream things that never were and ask why not. ' Robert F. Kennedy used this George Bernard Shaw quotation in a speech.
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
If you don't know the current situation factually how are you able to think ahead, be future focused?
Your post was just smart alec I think – you surely don't believe it – seriously?
It's to hard to climb out of a rabbit hole.
Rabbits spring out once the ferret's slipped in!
I still don't like her.
Fine if your crew need an empath – something like a Deanna Troi.
Useful when dealing with hostile races. She could usually determine, through use of her empathic powers, whether others were lying, which proved most useful in suspenseful situations.
Once this COVID bullshit rolls through it's time for Robertson.
She'd "feel" through your faux antagonism, Ad, in the twinkling of her lovely eye 🙂
Helen Clark would. None of the fluffy nonsense, straight to the decision.
Helen would abdicate in favour of Robertson?
Helen Clark would face down reporters with actual steel fire coming out of her eyes. And then get her office comms staff to hunt them down in the street.
Ardern has her own version of steel fire from the eyes.
Ardern could do Britain's Got Talent imitating puppies.
And win. The crowd would go ape!
I'm guessing this one for the world renowned media person,
Lol, just googled it.
I don't feel trapped. Is he referring to globetrotting kiwis who are unable to fly out for some reason??
I'm intrigued that the reporter uses the pronoun they for Brislen. Does that mean he is trans? Or does he have multiple personality disorder? Rhetorical! 🙄
Back in the early days of the pandemic, some random UK dude tweeted that NZ was a hellhole because of the lockdown (something like that). Hence the twitter hashtag #NZHellhole, that is still running 2 years later, and has been resurrected for Piers. Enjoy https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NZHellhole&src=typeahead_click
for more context, there's a long history of NZ twitter taking the piss out of people overseas criticising NZ eg when Labour banned some guns after Chch, US twitter went crazy so NZ twitter made up all this stuff about how the government was taking away all our rights and we were all going to starve to death. That went on for while.
Then there was the one about how the NZ government had made home gardening illegal. That got a some people too, lol. It still comes up occasionally.
People think twitter is a hellsite, but sometimes it's really fun.
Kororareka was the 'Hell-hole of the Pacific" in the 1830s. https://www.penguin.co.nz/books/hellhole-of-the-pacific-9781742287140
It's mixture of escaped convicts, seamen on the rantan, traders, whalers, sealers, adventurers got it that name. "At one stage the town was said to be harbouring 'a greater number of rogues than any other spot of equal size in the universe'. " It was said that whaling captains steered clear for fear of losing crews.
Bit of a come down to NZ now, isn't it, to be called a hell hole again?
Thanks, I enjoyed those!
I did register for Twitter over a year ago out of curiosity, but was taken aback by the poor design & downmarket focus of the site, so never used it after that first day.
The site despatched robot emails to me daily for several months consisting of topics that a moronic teenager might like, but then somehow detected I wasn't the target market & they stopped.
This statue is titled "Solace in the Wind." On the Wellington waterfront, it offered me solace when I was there four years ago having radiation treatment. It is a superb sculpture, and worthy of spending some contemplative time in its company.
Be careful Weka. The gulag they were talking about was Southland and they tried to flee to our paradise here in Wellington where the statue, Solace in the Wind, is now placed next to Te Papa.
Make sure they don't catch you. The Masters might decide he needs a companion.
New Media around the World are praising Jacinda for calling of her wedding.
No other leader has the same level of international respect let alone respect at home.
This makes the right puke.
So their Minions like Piers Morgan try to do hit jobs on her mostly they backfire.
I tried looking this up and it offered me 2 options.
One was Clarke Gayford
The other was Micky Savage.
Which one is it? Neither of them seems to qualify as "world renowned". Perhaps it is the new search engine I have been using as an alternative to Google.
what search terms and engine did you use?
Please ignore it.
One of my (middle-aged!) kids put this in on my computer.
Presumably you didn't tell them that they only need to remember your name and email address to repeat the feat independently.
There is a derangement about Ardern in the same way there was about Clark and Key. It's pathetic, but it seems we have reached the stage where thoughtful political discourse has given way to the cult of social media influencing.
I thought it was about Trump that there was a derangement syndrome. Not heard of it for Clark or Key though both had their enthusiasts and not.
Plenty of thoughtful political discussion going on here on TS and in my neck of the woods.
Liam Hehir on Key derangement syndrome
Apparently the expression was originally used by Charles Krauthammer about George Bush.
When Trump became prominent as a politician one of the qualities admired so much by supporters was that he "told it like it is." He didn't beat around the bush worrying about the diplomatic approach – he said it as he saw it.
The funny thing is that some years down the track I haven't learned to be like him. Those same people who thought him godlike with his forthright attitude and words are many of the same with the crazed, insane, mental, brainless, stupid, uninformed, uneducated ignorant stuff about covid, viruses, science, vaccines and Ardern. Oh, and Trump winning the election.
When I hear some of the blatherings I don't have it in me to simply say, "Fuck off, you're a moron." Or, "My kids were as dumb as you, but then they turned two."
You forgot smug hermit kingdom, Micky. I imagine it’s one one of the few times you’ve agreed with John Key. 🙂
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth …
NZ least corrupt country, again
Virtuous or just plain lazy?
Rumour mongering and personal attacks on Ardern are a waste of time and likely to be counter-productive. At the moment she could probably be filmed drowning puppies and people would still love her.
While people feel safe and relatively prosperous they will have no reason to change. However, once Omicron becomes established, chaos ensues, and if the economy goes south, then people will start reconsidering their political stand point.
The the problem is that there is a complete dearth of viable alternatives. I guess it depends on how desperately you want a cabinet and leader without any significant experience in government.
One whose various members only contribution to the covid debates has been to be proven wrong time and time again when they call for changes that within a few weeks or months have proven to be completely useless when overtaken by events.
It'd be like looking back at the fiascos National did after the GFC and the ChCh earthquakes, where they actually managed to extent the economic pain with late and idiotic responses. I think that they're still trying to resolve some of the legal battles in ChCh from some of the piss-poor government decisions made in 2011. Or their refusal to do anything effective about a growing housing issue for 9 years.
Meanwhile I’m glad to see that we’re now finally getting consents and building going on to start correcting that National disaster despite how hard that is to achieve is in a pandemic. I can’t imagine anyone on the right of the house who would be capable of getting the policy settings right to achieve that. None of them look more capable than Nick Smith was.
"Finally getting consents and building going on" hasn't stopped homelessness and house price inflation actually getting worse under Labour. Considering the failure of countless attempts to interfere in the market, it is ironic that the single most effective tool in slowing prices may well be a complete accident!
It took about 30+ years to develop the problem. It will probably take more than a decade to relieve it.
Someday it'd be worth looking back in history at the length of time it took the 1st Labour government to start getting serious traction in their public housing project. They came in December 1935, drew up plans to build 5000 houses in 1936, managed to get the first one open in September 1937. By Feb 1939 they'd managed to build ~10,000. It was stalled by the war until 1944, and by the time the Labour lost there were ~30,000 (and a waiting list of about 45,000).
The proportions of private housing being built at the same time was about 1.5x the public housing (as I remember it from some research I did a few decades ago – so take that with a pinch of salt)
My point is that
While some of those (usually about 20%) won't get actually get built, some will be replacement of existing housing (like the apartments being built on old house sites in Auckland), we're looking at a considerable increase in building stock.
One that has been assisted by the limited immigration over the last two years. We have a much larger population and a much higher badly housed population – but the latter is a far smaller population that it was in the late 1930s.
This is good progress. We're actually building housing faster than the population increase for the first time in at least 30 years. The state concentrating on low-income housing and the private industry concentrating on apartments, town houses and MacMansions.
In the end, the financial constraints are only useful fro discouraging speculation. They don't build a single new dwelling. As such they are merely non-functional economic background noise.
It sounds like you just like listening to tinnitus… Probably yearning to go back to the bad old days in NZ where National and the market failed to meet housing demand for 3 decades.
"It took about 30+ years to develop the problem."
So why did Labour promise so much and yet deliver so little? Why did they promise to build 100,000 houses in 10 years? Or get all of the homeless into shelter by winter 2018? Or build light rail to Mt Roskill by 2021?
"the market failed to meet housing demand for 3 decades."
Oh and you think the housing waiting lists at record levels, with the number trebling in 3 years, and the escalating homelessness is a sign that the constant interventionism of the current government is working?
What's the evidence that the Natz will build more state houses? If the record of the 5th National government (2008 – 2017) is any indication, then Kiwis will be waiting a looooooooong time during (and I hope for) National's next turn.
Can opposition MPs begin to set better examples? Imho, some their behaviour, from the Jamie-Lee Ross affair onwards, has been simply abysmal.
"What's the evidence that the Natz will build more state houses?"
I never made that claim. At the moment state houses are being built by, or purchased from the private sector.
Wasn't suggesting that you did, Gypsy, just interested in evidence – you know, patterns of behaviour – would the Natz build more state houses? What (if anything) might their housing spokesperson (deputy leader Willis) have to say about their commitment (if any) to state housing? Honesty is the best policy, imho.
"would the Natz build more state houses? "
I doubt it. Because governments don't build state homes. The current one buys homes from the private market, or gets developers to build for it.
All I'm after is an answer to the (straightforward) question: 'Would the Natz facilitate the building of more state houses?' Do the Natz have a policy statement that answers this question, and, if not, what does their recent (2008 – 2017) pattern of behaviour suggest?
If you doubt the Natz would facilitate the building of more state houses, then that's a good enough current opinion for me.
"All I'm after is an answer to the (straightforward) question:"
Which I answered.
And I acknowledged your answer @11:46 am.
Not good enough for you?
"Not good enough for you?"
Your wiki link states that government owns state houses. Governments don't (present tense) build state houses, they either commission them or purchase them from the private sector. I'm personally in favour of much more social housing, but not in governments fudging the numbers to make them look like they've achieved more than they have.
I was just puzzled as to why my acknowledgement of your answer (to my (straightforward) question) didn't seem to be good enough for you, and wondered if you might had missed my acknowledgement.
Yes I may have – apologies for the confusion.
You might also ask why National promised to fix the lack of housing issue back in 2008 and then completely failed to even start to even try to deliver until 2014 when it was becoming a election issue again. Or the way that promised not to raise GST in 2008 or missed their election promise of a second tax cut in 2010.
Everything is harder to do in government than it looks from the safety of opposition or from your position of being a carping critic with no skin in the process.
The promise to deliver 100,000 homes over 10 years before 2027 actually looks like it is going to happen at the current rates. The homeless almost all got re-homed by winter 2020 albeit as part of help the motels and reduce a vector in the epidemic. Personally I'm still puzzled about why we needed light rail to the airport – which is pretty much the sticking point. I'd have less of a problem with light rail to Mt Roskill.
However all three of these were Labour policies from 2017, not NZF or Green policies. I'm sure that even you must remember that there was a coalition before the last election. As there has been for every government since 1996 except for the current one.
Political promises by political parties before elections are subject to the vagaries of economics and to whatever the government coalition comes up with after an election. Winston Peters has been proud of pointing out the he and NZFirst were the primary and indeed probably the only reason that light rail didn't go ahead in the last government. I suspect that he is probably correct.
"Political promises by political parties before elections are subject to the vagaries of economics and to whatever the government coalition comes up with after an election. "
A number of the promises Labour made were heroic. They were either stupid or dishonest.
Much evidence that National MPs are both, and “f***ing useless”, imho.
Do the Natz have a plan to roll back the recent "massive inequality increase" in NZ?
You're asking whether the natz have a plan to roll back a problem allegedly created by labour?
Precisely – trying to get a handle on whether the Natz view the recent “massive inequality increase” in NZ under Labour as a problem, and, if so, what strategies the Natz might pursue to halt/reverse that trend.
"trying to get a handle on whether the Natz view the recent “massive inequality increase” in NZ under Labour as a problem, and, if so, what strategies the Natz might pursue to halt/reverse that trend."
You'd have to ask them.
Not sure how, or whether I could trust an answer, if any.
People feel safe and relatively prosperous because the government has borrowed tens of billions of dollars. The money printing has stopped, and chickens will soon start arriving in the roost.
Meanwhile, if this presser is anything to go by, chaos has already arrived.
Luxon at the helm during a pandemic?
Saints preserve us!
Have to fly business class Robert. Though a seat without a bag will be for most of us.
PB I'm just waiting for really good seat belts so those cheaper long promised seats on the wing come to pass.
Need more than saints Robert.
Well it's Waitangi Day and apparently Clarke is on Waiheke Island wearing a Monitoring bracelet, and come to 19th or 20th Feb Jabcinda is gonna Resign and Robert Grantson will be interim PM….. guess time will tell.