What would you have done, Prime Minister?

Written By: - Date published: 11:36 pm, June 23rd, 2010 - 33 comments
Categories: national/act government - Tags:

A very strange statement from Timaru financier Allan Hubbard in this story from the Herald after his company had been put into statutory liquidation by Justice Minister Simon Power:

Power said on Sunday there was not adequate documentation of loans made on behalf of 407 investors who were owed NZ$98 million.

“I think if Mr Key, who knows me, was in New Zealand, he wouldn’t have done that,” Hubbard told Radio New Zealand.

Hubbard thinks  because Prime Minister Key knows him personally he would have overruled Simon Power, a member of Key’s cabinet exercising his statutory duty,  in Hubbard’s favour.

That was  after the Herald reported this from the Serious Fraud Office:

Earlier today, Serious Fraud Office director Adam Feeley says SFO staff have visited the offices of Allan Hubbard’s Aorangi Securities in Timaru and are satisfied an investigation into suspected serious or complex fraud is necessary.

Feeley said the SFO had started an investigation after careful consideration of information received from the Registrar of Companies.

“Based on the information we received from the earlier report, we were satisfied that, not only was it in the public interest to commence an inquiry, but that the inquiry should be conducted under Part 2 of the SFO Act – that is, it should be an investigation of suspected offences involving serious or complex fraud,” said Feeley.

John Key certainly knows the finance world inside out. But serious fraud is a serious matter. So is the publicly stated perception by a highly influential financier that the Prime Minister would corrupt the process of justice in his favour.

It’s not a good look.

33 comments on “What would you have done, Prime Minister?”

  1. gingercrush 1

    Smile and Wave and I would have done but I never said I had but I can’t decide if I may and I will delay my decision and I’ll be happy with that decision but I won’t actually make a decision but I did not say that, well I might have said that and I’m all confused but I sure can smile and wave

    OK so I can’t do satire or anything like that but this post is screaming out for one of those. And I usually hate the whole “OMG John Key smiles and waves and do nothing Key”, but in this case it does seem appropriate.

  2. tsmithfield 2

    “John Key certainly knows the finance world inside out. But serious fraud is a serious matter. So is the publicly stated perception by a highly influential financier that the Prime Minister would corrupt the process of justice in his favour. ”

    John, this is a very dumb post. Sorry. Just because someone has an opinion about someone-else doesn’t make it evidence of anything.

    • IrishBill 2.1

      Be civil or you’ll get banned again. Hubbard clearly said John Key would have sorted the problem if he had been in NZ. Why do you think he would say such a thing?

      • joe bloggs 2.1.1

        please clarify – where does Hubbard “clearly say” that Key would have sorted this out?

        In the piece that’s quoted Hubbard speculates on what Key would not have done. That’s all.

  3. tsmithfield 3

    Irish, if we accept that the Serious Fraud office has a case, and at the very least Hubbard has been making some serious errors of judgement with respect to his finances. If he is making errors of judgement with respect to his financial management, might he not also be making errors of judgement about what action others might take? Who knows, he might have said exactly the same thing about the SFO before they moved in. As I said, just because he has an opinion, it doesn’t prove anything.

    • IrishBill 3.1

      No it doesn’t prove anything but it is an unusual enough assumption that it would be good to know what basis it was made on.

  4. tsmithfield 4

    So far as I am aware there is absolutely no evidence of Key trying to intervene in this situation. Therefore, Hubbard’s opinion seems fairly baseless. Perhaps he thought that since Key seemed a nice guy and had a chat with him one day he would also call the dogs off in this sort of situation. However, his opinion seems to be completely incorrect judging by the course of events thus far.

    • snoozer 4.1

      “So far as I am aware there is absolutely no evidence of Key trying to intervene in this situation. ”

      apart from one of the major palyers saying he would.

      “Perhaps he thought that since Key seemed a nice guy and had a chat with him one day he would also call the dogs off in this sort of situation”

      I love your ability to just invent actual events if it suits your purpose, argue from them, and conclude that you are right. Kind of the Right’s method in microcosm.

  5. Mark 5

    John Key was quoted yesterday in the Herald as saying he supported his ministers actions, that he was aware last week what was going to happen.
    End of story.

    • vto 5.1

      he has to say that doesn’t he. what else would he say Mark?

      … story just begun in fact …

  6. vto 6

    Hubbard, in saying that, exposes how things work at times, indeed.

    You may want to then extrapolate that to Central Plains Water, Hubbards stake in that and many other schemes, Ecan theft, Water Conservation Order deletion and the meeting late last year (edit: year before) at the Sudima Hotel at Christchurch Airport between Smith and Carter and irrigator reps and stakeholders such as Hubbard.

    This is exactly what I have been getting at recently. There has been a well planned assault on water resources for the purposes of dairying in Canterbury. That plan is currently being executed.

    Hubbard has let the cat out of the bag.

  7. jcuknz 7

    Another field day for the conspiracy theorists ?

    • vto 7.1

      No jcuknz.

      Follow the news. Follow the goings-on. Follow the resource consents. Follow the money. Follow the people. It is so bloody clear. I would love to give David Carter some truth serum and see what spews forth from his twitching tongue.

    • I’m not sure .its all a mystery to me .I realise Hubard has given millions to charity ,but I have difficulty to understand how a man makes 100s of millions of dollars. Perhaps one of our subscribers in the know will inform me.
      Because I have always believed that whilst one is hard at work they do not have time to make money. I also believe that that sort of money is made by either screwing the workers or with a well concealed fiddle.

      ,

  8. tsmithfield 8

    It must be a really slow news day at the standard for this item to be gaining any traction at all.

    It might be mildly interesting if there was a “because” that could be pointed to.

    E.g. “I think if Mr Key, who knows me, was in New Zealand, he wouldn’t have done that.” Hubbard was able to say this because Key had stepped in previously for him in similar situations such as this instance when Key…

    However, there is no “because” to back up the speculation from Hubbard. The evidence is quite the contrary in that the government is taking action and there is no indication from Key that he will intervene. So there is absolutely no story here. Period.

    • vto 8.1

      So tsmithfield you think Hubbard is simply day-dreaming when he expresses this? That he has perhaps lost his marbles? That is the basis of your post.

      Perhaps Hubbard expresses that opinion because he has very reasonable cause to believe that is the case. And he has not lost his marbles at all.

      So which is it – lost his marbles? Or not?

  9. tsmithfield 9

    The problem is vto, that Hubbard could have said anything and I guess you would believe it, given your earlier comments:

    For instance, “I think if Key, who knows me, was in New Zealand, he would wipe my bum for me if I needed a carer.”

    Without any evidence, statements are meaningless, especially when the evidence goes completely the other way. Hubbard might strongly believe that Key wouldn’t have taken this action. However, there is no evidence at all to back up this belief.

    Show some evidence that Key has been trying to interfere in the process at the moment to help Hubbard out. Then there might be a story. As it stands the government is taking action against Hubbard. I am sure that Key is very sad that Hubbard has ended up in this situation, as many probably are. However, there is absolutely no evidence that any personal feelings he has about this situation is having any effect on the process.

    All that is happening here is that Key is being smeared without any evidence to back it up at all.

    • vto 9.1

      You didn’t answer the question tsmithfield.

      And I did provide evidence as to why Hubbard may have such a belief that Key may exercise some influence.

      You say “Show some evidence that Key has been trying to interfere in the process at the moment to help Hubbard out.”. But that is not the evidence needed, nor the proposition to be proved. It is evidence around why Hubbard may have such a belief.

      So I ask you again, slightly differently to make it a little easier – Is Hubbard lying when he expresses this belief? Or not?

      • Bored 9.1.1

        VTO, dont expect answers from TS, especially about who is losing their marbles. You do very well pointing out the complicity of Hubbard and the Nats in what has become the Great Canterbury water larceny.

    • Pascal's bookie 9.2

      nah. What’s being done is people are wondering why Hubbard might say such a thing, given that it’s a fairly strange thing to say.

      Do you think that Hubbard would say such a thing without reason/ Do you really think that Hubbard would think that just because he had a nice chat with Key, then that would be enough to make him believe this?

      Hubbard could well be wrong in his belief, but that doesn’t explain it. Something though, must. What that something is, is what people are wondering.

    • Armchair Critic 9.3

      In short, there’s nothing to see here, move on, ts? Yeah right, Mr Hubbard just gave a quick glimpse of how things really work in Canterbury. There is no lack of evidence, this is yet another piece of evidence to back up the circumstantial evidence we have had over the last six months or so.

  10. Tigger 10

    Key has cultivated this pretence of availability when he’s not. It’s celebrity culture, people expect him to be their friend or, if he is known to them, intercede for them even inappropriate.

  11. freedom 11

    like most of you, i only believe my friends will help in a particular circumstance because they have done so in the past.

  12. vto 12

    In Canterbury, National Party people, farming leaders, and local finance people (PGGW, Kerr, SCF, Hubbard) are as thick as thieves.

    Only a fool thinks otherwise.

    • tsmithfield 12.1

      The only “evidence” I see here to back up the “claims” by Hubbard is more speculation.

      And to answer VTO, yes it wouldn’t surprise me if Hubbard is losing his marbles. Happens to old people all the time. Ever heard of dementia?

      • vto 12.1.1

        Ok, good for you.

        Regarding “speculation” you clearly have a deficient knowledge of events that are known to have occurred already and a further deficiency around the Canterbury region and its various ‘cultures’.

        You’re entitled to your opinion but in my opinion in aint worth a speck of loess on this issue.

        • tsmithfield 12.1.1.1

          Actually I live in Christchurch. From what I have seen (letters to the editor, local radio talkback etc) most people were sick to death of ECAN and glad to see them go. They didn’t get the nickname “ecan’t” for nothing.

          The problem you have with respect to Key is that you are implying very serious allegations against Key. Given such substantial allegations, I would expect to see substantial evidence. What has been put forward is a million miles from that.

  13. Jum 13

    A comment suggested John Key knows the finance world inside out. If that is the case he would have warned NZ when he became an MP and had House privilege that we were to be to be hit by a recession, because that is the reason I suspect that he came back to NZ to escape the political fallout that would have attached itself to him with his speculative help on gambling with NZ’s dollar and the many diverse ways he made his millions of paper money from paper creativity. He knew very well that we were in trouble because of American financial activities and his American contacts and intended to cynically use that knowledge to his advantage to gain power in NZ.

    If he did not know any of this then he is lying about his financial acumen and has had to rely on the fact that Clark and Cullen had built up reserves to pay down debt and protect New Zealanders from a worse recession.

    Which is it JKeyll? What are you hide-ing from us?

    • Damian 13.1

      This is absurd. Reality is not a stick that you can put into a bowl of spinning sugar-assumptions. It’s not a candyfloss fantasy-land, as much as you may want it to be.

    • joe bloggs 13.2

      Are you channelling Phil U after a big weekend?

      And if Key were black and female … then he’d be Ella Fitzgerald…
      And if he were short, bald and heavyset … then he’d be Rodney Hide…
      And if he knew more about quantum physics than Einstein … then he’d be Stephen Hawkings…

      Absurd doesn’t scratch the surface of your conspiracy theories

  14. randal 14

    HE WOULD HAVE FIRST KIcKED THE TYRES.
    then made him an offer he couldnt understand but with which he would be the loser.

  15. Jum 15

    Damian and Joe Bloggs (Captcha you are talking ‘garbages’)

    The fact remains. Either Key is the great moneyman who understands the financial world or he doesn’t. He either knew about the coming American blowout because he understood the financial world he was moving in or he didn’t know which means he is the great pretender telling NZers that he can lead them through the mire and that would be a lie. Which do you prefer? He is a liar? He doesn’t know about the financial world? He did know that New Zealand was going to be hit by a recession that his fellow moneytraders helped cause? Which?

    Another fact; in Bubble Man by Peter Hartcher “the US abandoned the gold bullion standard in 1971, its dollar has not been backed by any precious metal but rests on a common faith that the greenback is something more than a piece of paper.” Money is created, trillions of it and we are expected to trust that when we need to withdraw it, the money will be there for us.

    Quote from Jim Anderton’s budget speech 2010
    “I remember he helped people make a pot of money speculating against the New Zealand dollar in the 1980s, at a cost to New Zealand of $700 million. Guess what? At the same time, New Zealand’s increasing rate of income inequality became one of the worst in the OECD.”

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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    1 week ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    1 week ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    1 week ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Hard News: Time for a New Deal: 25 years on
    In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Not impressed
    KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Solar beats coal
    As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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