Written By:
karol - Date published:
8:20 am, April 16th, 2014 - 162 comments
Categories: accountability, news, peter dunne, tv, united future -
Tags: conflict of interest, legal highs
TV One Seven Sharp has raised questions about whether there has been a conflict of interest for Peter Dunne. This is with respect to his son James Dunne’s legal representation of advocates for the recreational synthetic drug industry.
To me it seems possible that father and son have a totally different attitude to legal highs. As when I stated after Not a PS Staffer raised this on Open Mike last night, I require more information in order to decide whether there has been a conflict of interest.
However, legal highs are a hot topic right now, and I have been hearing people locally tell of their concerns about some new legal high shops that have opened in west Auckland.
This morning on Stuff, Charles Anderson writes of concerns about the dangers of some legal highs.
Synthetic cannabis puts more New Zealanders in hospital per use than any other drug and experts say it is a ”timebomb” that will strain the public health system for years to come.
Results from this year’s Global Drug Survey, conducted in partnership with Fairfax Media, found almost 4 per cent of synthetic cannabis users sought emergency medical treatment. More than a quarter of those were admitted to hospital.
The survey of 5731 New Zealand respondents found more than 10 per cent had used synthetic cannabis in the past 12 months – second only to Britain, on just under 11 per cent.
Further down the article, they report statements from a legal high company, seemingly providing an alternative view:
However, Grant Hall, of legal high industry lobby Star Trust, said an independent study it commissioned showed all forms of cannabis were low-risk.
”The general public is being continuously fed a diet of media-driven propaganda against consumers of low-risk psychoactives,” he said.
”This discrimination needs to stop.”
Star Trust is a company that James Dunne represents.
He works for ChenPalmer. In a letter to the Committee for the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill, written by James Dunne on behalf of Star Trust, he says:
Star Trust is the industry representative body for a number of businesses which currently hold various licenses under the Psychoactive Substances Act 2013.
Star Trust, according to their website, is all for the Psychoactive Substances Act 2013.
Peter Dunne, as Associate Minister of Health, introduced this Bill to parliament. In a press release of February 2013, he outlined the Bill and the reasons for it:
“The Bill will be a complete game-changer in terms of party pills and other legal highs,” Mr Dunne said.
“It is about moving from constantly playing catch-up with this industry on each new product they produce, to reversing the onus of proof – now they will have to prove every product is safe before it goes on sale.
“This legislation will clean up what has been a highly irresponsible legal highs industry to date.
“Producers of products such as synthetic cannabis and party pills will no longer be able to play with the health of young New Zealanders,” he said.
Seven Sharp put their case. They claim that at the least there is an appearance of conflict of interest. Neither James nor Peter would appear on camera to answer questions, but both claim they work independently from the other, and there was no collaboration or sharing of information. The main accusations, or implied associations are to do with James representing the legal high industry providers, and claiming, as stated on Chenpalmer website, to have
valuable inside knowledge of how Parliament works in New Zealand
In order for there to have been a conflict of interest, it seems to me that it needs to be shown that, far from cleaning up the legal high industry, the 2013 Act has enabled an industry to operate legally, while peddling highly addictive and dangerous recreational drugs. Certainly that’s the way the main way the media is characterising the legal high business currently. It also needs to be shown that Peter Dunne colluded with his son in misleadingly claiming that legalising synthetic drugs would clean up the industry.
I have found no such evidence. However, it is a topical issue that requires further investigation.
A beat up, or media reporting based on genuine concerns about the harmfulness of the legal high industry?
[Update] Live chat with Peter Dunne, Stuff midday
Stuff’s synthetic cannabis live chat. Associate Health Minister Peter Dunne will join us at midday but you can already leave your questions for him here.
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I am with you karol. unless the bill gets very soft on manufacturers and suppliers at p dunnes instigation I cant see the actual conflict. I wonder if the nats are trying to deflect from collins. reverse will happen imo because people wil say how do either gain… we can all see how judith and her husband gained.
I am no dunne defender but based on what I have read on this I am defending him today.
Tracey
If it looks like a dog, smells like a dog and barks like a dog: what is it?
It is a DOG!
Labour should be all over this like a rash. And Labour should distance itself from Chen Palmer.
I’d be amazed if Labour didn’t already know about it.
Labour contributed to (via select committee) and voted for the Psychoactive Substances Bill/Act. Do they have fleas?
thank god you have no power with you ” burn them” mentality
“Labour should be all over this like a rash. And Labour should distance itself from Chen Palmer.”
Where does that name ‘Palmer’ come from?
Seriously Karol,
I thought you were better than this to suggest some form of “deal” here. You do step back from that in article, but the innuendo is clear enough.
The son working for a law firm acting for a client cannot be regarded as a conflict of interest, simply because the father introduced the legislation. It would be the equivalent of saying the child of a Minister of Agriculture cannot own a farm. Or that in a Labour led Government, that a child of a Minister of Labour cannot be a Union official.The relationship would have to be much more direct.
As you know I chose not to stand for Parliament in 2011, and thus be a Minister, because my wife (Denese Henare) wished to be a judge. The view being that having two members of a family being in two separate branches of govt would generate potential conflicts of interest. But that is quite a direct relationship, even though in reality an actual conflict may never have arisen.
Actually I thought Karol was suggesting quite the opposite, if you’d actually bothered to read the post
I didn’t know that was the reason you’d decided not to stand, Dr. Mapp. Very commendable.
What do you make of the potential for the National Party’s fundraising activities/favours for cash to cause problems for Judith Collins?
Good point. Bear in mind Mike Hosking is open about his support for National and I would suspect a part of John Key’s inner circle of friends and sycophants. He’s also been outed By Alison Mau as a bully and she believes that’s the reason the other member of the Seven sharp team ( Jesse someone or another) has left the programme.
Dunne snr has seemed a good friend of the liquor lobby, while Dunne jnr has chosen a different type of addictive substance category to work with and advocate for. Which he is entitled to do. Whether he should be representing this dodgy sector is up for discussion.
Decriminalising your actual cannabis, freeing up medical cannabis, and treating all other drug use as a medical/personal wellness/recreation issue is the way to go imo.
Chen Palmer had a phenomenal reputation. Well connected, most talented, trusted by governments of all colours. The Law Reform functions of government have been effectively outsourced to Chen Palmer.
They employed the son of the most “flexible” minister and had him working on the dodgy very very profitable industry that his father oversaw!
Both Dunnes stink. Chen Palmer stinks.
This story has legs.
When did John Key become aware that Dunne’s son had a huge interest in the dodgy Legal High industry?
Was he aware when he recently reappointed Dunne, despite the continuing suspicion that Dunne Snr had demonstrated dishonesty.
Does Key still have confidence in Chen Palmer ?
The questions are many.
Your attacks stink unless you can substantiate them. If you have nothing other than empty insinuation then you’re practicing vile politics.
plus 1
Like when you were insinuating that the Greens did a hit piece on the Taxpayers Union eh Georgie?
you mean the very left mai chen and geoffrey palmer? being the name partners of chen palmer? retard.
Sir Geoffrey Palmer practices law from Harbour Chambers in Wellington. There’s no mention of him on ChenPalmer’s website, as either a partner or anything else.
On what do you base your assertion that he is a partner?
If the answer is “nothing”, who is the retard?
All I know about this is what I’ve seen in the public arena.
I had already noticed that a James Dunne was representing the legal high industry and presumed there was either a family connection oe it was a coincidence, but I didn’t think it mattered.
Obviously in some ways he will have a very good insight into how Parlaiement works, but he could have worded this much better.
My biggest issue with this is with Seven Sharp. They have promoted it as big news:
And as Karol says they “claim that at the least there is an appearance of conflict of interest.”
That’s because they have created that appearance and highlighted it as significant news. They have provided no evidence at all to make it any more than a manufactured perception. If they had said nothing there would be little or no public perception.
TVNZ have tried to create news out of nothing of substance. This is very poor journalism.
Bollox Pete. Dunne will loose Ohariu over this. The other candidates will print out the information that is in the Public Domain and let the voters join the dots.
Dunne Senior is rubbish.
Dunne Junior is rubbish.
You’ve got a conflict of interest here, Petty George. You should shut the fuck up.
plus 100! corrupt, & conflicted. you have the father making the laws, & the son whose job it is to skirt around the same laws, cannot have one without the other, conflicted! nz is a small country, but not that freakin small.
And Pete George wanders in to protect this government – again.
Father and son on both sides of the argument is an instant perception of conflict of interest.
Father, son and the holy george goat.
How do you work that out? One is a legal representative for the legal high industry (doing his job). The other has been instrumental in blocking three quarters of the products form the market and is on record pushing local bodies to substantially restrict sales of the remainder until the “prove relative safety” part of the Act kicks in.
The result could easily be few or no synthetic drugs are legal.
When he should have blocked all of them.
Now how’s that perception looking?
The bill was agreed to by 119 MPs. One (John Banks) voted against because of the possibility of animal testing.
Do they all have conflicts of interest? There’s as much evidence of that for them as there is for Dunne.
We weren’t talking about all the rest, we were talking about Dunne, his son and a piece of legislation that didn’t quite go far enough.
“James has valuable inside knowledge of how Parliament works in New Zealand”
There’s no problem that father and son are on different sides of a public debate (if giving legal representation means being on a “side”), but I’d be worried about his so-called “valuable inside knowledge”. Knowledge of how parliament works is publicly available, but “valuable inside knowledge”? What can this mean? How better could he have worded this, Pete George?
Can’t see anything to indicate that there is a conflict of interest.
How does Peter Dunne stand to gain in any way from his sons advocacy?
Peter Dunne has been an extremely good friend to the alchohol industry.
And his work on the Psychoactive Substances Act, does ensure that there is no threat to alchohol remaining the primary legal drug of choice (while at the same time, being an entirely reasonable piece of legislation).
I think there is a stronger argument to be made that rather than a conflict of interest, having a son who advocates for the legal high industry is a minor political thorn in Peters foot.
I would much rather that media in New Zealand, if they want to hold Mr Dunne to account, actually looks at the stuff he has done wrong, there’s a lot to choose from.
They could start with the phrase”“willing buyer – willing seller”
The cabinet manual is very clear in relation to conflicts of interest and perceived conflicts of interest. Nepotism and cronyism are never a good look. Just ask Judith Collins. But hey, these Tories aren’t bothered with silly rules that just get in the way. And nor is the media. So long as everyone’s making plenty of dough, all is good. The issue here is did Dunne declare? Will we ever know?
Your argument is that Dunnes capitulation to the alcohol lobby and work on the Psychoactive Substances Act, is so his son would be able to get work lobbying against his dad’s efforts?
That’s an extraordinarily long bow.
on the info available so far I agree with your post 100%
Declare what precisely Tom? What Nepotism? Please give some depth to what you are saying
It seems like a beat up – In a small, urbanised population like NZ you can play 2.5 degrees of Kevin Bacon until you have to be sectioned for paranoia. I haven’t seen anything that suggests any sort of collusion between Dunne père and Dunne fils on the subject.
Indeed -Populuxe 1. NZ is a highly interconnected society as you say. The Act passing through parliament was subject to the normal standards of questioning, amendments etc. P Dunne has been vocal on controlling the synthetics for a long time and has managed to achieve a form of control.
Not sure where any conflict emerges when relations are on different sides of the argument…
Personally: decriminalise the whole shebang, make R18, pump unbiased education out there and let people decide for themselves… its not for me, but adults make choices..
That 2.5 degrees of Kevin Bacon as you term it, is absolutely the source of much corruption in NZ. I’ve come across it often enough in my previous work where, although no-one was meant to have any relationship with the presiding authority in the area I worked in, the fact is that lawyers I was up against often had a far too familiar relationship with said presiding authority. And yes. That definitely influenced decisions arrived at.
The problem is that no obviously overt corruption between individuals is necessary for there to be widespread, and difficult to to put your finger on, systemic corruption.
Some may argue it’s just an unfortunate and unavoidable upshot of having a smaller population. I’d argue that corruption is corruption and no less acceptable or excusable by dint of population size; that smaller populations really do need to put effort into creating better systems – ones that promote and protect integrity in the face of ‘accidental’ systemic corruption.
edit. this comment should probably be read in conjunction with my other comment at 13.
Inevitably – but there’s not much you can do about it. However the upside is we as citizens have an unprecedented level of direct contact with our politcians. They can’t avoid us or keep secrets from us for very long – that is National’s big mistake in playing American style politics. They are trying to grow the gap between the different parts of society and I suspect it is becoming increasingly obvious to even the most deluded.
Why are you using a photo of a 1970s evangelist preacher? Could you not find one of James Dunne?
Heh. Well, as far as I could see it’s a screenshot from the Seven Sharp report. If Seven Sharp is using a 70s evangelist pracher to impersonate James Dunne… then it really must be a beat up….???!!!
With that suit it could be a screenshot from Seven Snazzy.
Looks to me like the son has his own “hair do” signature.
I’m right leaning voter (historically ACT when they used to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal), although I do think Peter Dunne is one of the biggest dickheads ever to enter parliament (and I never have, never would vote for him or his party), right up there with other self entitled, grandiose journeymen like Jonathan Hunt, most NZ First list MP’s etc. But this lobbying issue is a complete disgrace. Their may or may not be a genuine conflict of interest (I think probably yes given the uselessness of the law Dunne sponsored) but the black belt levels of stupid on display from Dunne senior and Dunne junior is breathtaking. The stupidity level exhibited here is simply unbelievable, but why be surprised by Peter Dunne on that score.
Less exercised about the Judith Collins fiasco although I do think there is a slightly better than even chance she’ll quit as a minister. But it’s not what she did at the time that is the problem – it is is the cover up. Ministers should be pimping themselves out to support NZ businesses – if a company asks for official help it should be given, the issues are around disclosure.
So you’re more interested in what looks like a beat up on an unpopular National ally, but not fussed on Judith’s clear conflict of interest.
Remember that Judith has a long history of corruption, starting with her time at the CCA
hmmmm…… the answer to your question is Yes, but not for the reason you imply and I don’t think it is a beat up – as I said earlier what I really find offensive is that the Dunnes are so stupid they thought this wouldn’t appear to be an issue.. I genuinely don’t have an issue with what Collins did in China. Ministers and politicians of all parties do this all the time and I think it is appropriate as long as a modicum of process is around it and disclosure occurs. I have been to numerous functions where politicians of many parties have been doing exactly what Collins did. Don’t have a problem with it whether it is national, labour or anyone else. Conflicts of interest are a fact of business and political life. The issue is management of and disclosure around conflicts of interest.
Like almost every political scandal, it’s not the actual act that may eventually trip up Collins, it is the cover up. If she had fully disclosed and been up front prior to it happening then this wouldn’t be an issue. It’s the cover up.
If Collins husband was not a director of Oravida then would this be an issue? No, because in the last six months there have probably been dozens or hundreds of the same situation with other MP’s. The only ones I have a problem with are where there are undeclared conflicts of interest. Of course that raises a really good point about whether our disclosure policies are robust enough.
Can you explain how the CCA is evidence of corruption?
Yeah, it’s pretty much a matter of appearances rather than the blatant corruption of the Pansy Wong fiasco, which to their credit, National eventually acted on.
is that cos collins did it for the good of the nation?
Can’t be that, Collins insists it was all private business so nothing to do with the nation at all.
not when she was pretending to drop in for a cuppa on the way to the airport, or wait, was that a planned visit… its getting so hard to tell.
chuckled at the quip in parliament today about tabling her speech to the chinese about corruption.
“If Collins husband was not a director of Oravida then would this be an issue? “
Yep. This goes a lot deeper than Judith’s husband. Eventually Key is going to have to cut her loose before she drags him down too.
and then he can play his with great sadness but as strong leader with integrity card… and still not disclose the border officials name.
he cant be scared for the guys life cos kiwis wouldn’t deal with such a nation!!
Of course we wouldn’t. And our PM certainly wouldn’t be endorsing products and golfing in such an environment.
@ felix
So lets all hope he doesn’ t cut her loose
The Casino Control Authority was set up as an independent body to oversee Casinos operations in New Zealand, and specifically to ensure that they followed the rules as laid down in the Casino Control Act 1990.
In 2001 Judith Collins, as chairwoman of the Casino Control Authority ruled on SkyCity’s $37 million convention centre and permitted 12 new gambling tables and 230 gaming machines, agreeing with the applicant that the new facility “would be likely to have a substantial positive impact on tourism, employment and economic development” in Auckland.
Though apparently legal, Collins was acting well outside her mandate as Chair of the CCA.
Corruption may be a bit strong, as I do not know of any evidence of a direct quid pro quo that Collins got for this deal, other than immediately being gifted Warren Kyd’s old Hunua (Clevedon) electorate in 2002 – though it would be a stretch to see that as payment without more information.
You are probably right, poor governance structures when National set up the CCA led to (at best) an egregious abuse of power rather than outright corruption.
While I’m often critical of Labour, and not being a fan of Helen Clark due to her time as Minister of Health (she should have resigned over the Bad Blood scandal – but given that Simon Upton should have been imprisoned for his role in allowing HIV infected blood to be distributed resulting in more than a few deaths, infecting dozens of New Zealanders with Hep C seems pretty mild in comparison), the Gambling Act 2003 was a good piece of legislation which addressed the shortcomings in the Casino Control Act 1990 that Collins was happy to drive a truck through.
As far as Oravida is concerned, whether or not Collins husband was a director, she should have passed the invitation over to MFAT who are the appropriate entitiy to engage with. If they deemed it necessary for a high ranking minister to attend dinners help grease wheels, then so be it. Transparent and publically accountable.
But, her husband is a director, and it looks a lot like they were using her position as a high ranking MP to ensure competitive advantage for Oravida. On a trip paid for by the New Zealand taxpayer no less.
that was my thinking on nadis post. but he said he doesnt like p dunne… and wld def prefer nat to labour hence not worried about collins behaviour
its been the twilight zone in here for 24 hours
no tracey – stop making shit up. I’m not not worried about Collins behaviour because I prefer national to labour.
I said I don’t have a problem with ministers doing what Collins did as long as it is appropriately disclosed. Which she appears to have failed to do – I have a problem with that.
Ministers should engage with industry. They should do this within the rules. They should disclose correctly what they are doing. In my opinion she has done the first two. Maybe not the third.
As I said – if Collins gets sacked it will be because of poor disclosure etc not because of what she actually did in China. And there’s probably enough in her lack of disclosure to make sacking a very real prospect. And if that happened I would not be offended.
I think I am very consistent on this sort of stuff – Labour, National or anyone else I think my tests is the same. Cunliffe opening his wife’s office and glad handing clients – not an issue. Shane Jones appearing at a fishing company client day – not a problem. John Key speaking at a PWC client briefing – not a problem. Bill English addressing Fonterra shareholders -not a problem.
No, it’s the fact that she did it and that the government then tried to cover it up.
No they shouldn’t. That’s what we have MFAT with a number of actual processes for.
anyone know the size of director fees at orivdo or if mr collins has any direct or indirect shareholding inin the chairmans companys.
nadis
how many companies did ms collins pimp to on her trip to china?
That is my understanding as well.
Do you know where this is documented, I’ve not been able to find it.
My google foo is weak today 😕
This was all I got; MFAT – Strategic Direction, which has the following statement:
But not found documentation regarding what processes they follow – may be internal documents?
Couldn’t say ATM – just my recollections of what MFAT were for from my time at Uni. They actually are there to improve trade and to help NZ businesses where necessary.
Regardless of whether what Collins initially did satisfactory or not she has made a mess of her responses to the extent her political career is in jeopardy.
In comparison Dunne has nothing to respond to, there has been no claim (by Seven Sharp) he did any thing wrong.
National seem to have nothing to worry about regarding Dunne, and they have a huge headache with Collins. That’s the political reality.
Glad you’ve finally shown your true colours and I’m sure that National is grateful for your concern and support.
Dunne, though, is history.
Rubbish. Politicians don’t live in seclusion like monks – in your scenario every politician would have to be busted because their mother’s hairdresser’s cousin’s aunt made it a conflict of interest. We barely have a population of four million people, most of whom are concentrated in cities. Your position is laughably impractical.
I am still trying to get my head around the fact that there is a legal high industry lobby group.
What are the chances Chen Palmer are calling editors in all media to put them on notice that they will take action against anyone who pushes this story too hard?
from the stuff quote:
“Synthetic cannabis puts more New Zealanders in hospital per use than any other drug and experts say it is a ”timebomb” that will strain the public health system for years to come.”
Really… so alcohol and nicotine have been surpassed
Lock up your kids everybody the downfall of society is here – or at least judging by the reporting and very emotive use of victim story (hey campbell live) and lack of substantive expert opinion
I guess we’ll never have an intelligent debate around recreational drugs in this country, meanwhile in the USA….
Synthetic cannabis is vile muck and causing many A&E departments and Community and Alcohol Drug services huge amounts of work.
Talking to people at the coal face most if not all view it as far more dangerous and insidious than natural cannabis.
Recently presented information at Waitemata DHB presents a daily damning picture. (from page 105)
http://www.waitematadhb.govt.nz/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=04b2xouBm34%3D&tabid=157
Is there any way there were no ‘private chats’ between the two on any proposals? I’d be immensely surprised if that was the case. Such chats, even conducted in all innocence, are bound to influence opinion. Such chats, not so innocently conducted by one or the other, will have a greater influence.
Way I look at it is pretty simple. If I was on a union’s negotiating team and my father was on the employers side of the fence (or visa versa), then I’d be having nothing to do with negotiations. (Okay – that’s a lie. I’d use any influence I had to get the best deal I could for the workforce. Not a lie if I was on the employers side, well…unless I set myself up to act as a mole.)
Point is, there are a million and one little snippets of information and signals to train of thought that inevitably influence and/or advantage the argument of one party or the other when they have casual or private contact.
or they could agree to never bring the topic up. ever.
it is possible and some families have topics which are off limits.
is there currently any proof that dunne snr has watered down his original proposal to favour the people his son represents.
I think there is a broader systemic problem that this issue signposts (or possibly highlights). Rather than repeat myself, I’ll link to my comment at 7.2 that attempts to contribute on that front.
There is nothing accidental or innocent or pure fluke about anything to do with Chen Palmer.
It would be very very surprising if the allocation of Dunne Junior to the dodgy Legal Highs brief was co-incidental!
Anyone who has seen Mai Chen in action will have formed an opinion that she would have seen the strategic advantage of matching Dunne Junior with the dodgy legal high barrow boys.
Spot on Bill: this and your comment at 7.2 are gems.
the 2013 Act has enabled an industry to operate legally, while peddling highly addictive and dangerous recreational drugs
The act was designed to stop the whack-a-mole game of banning substances, only to have reformulated and unknown substances appear immediately afterwards to replace them. Chemists are more inventive than regulators. Now everything is regulated on the basis that if you want to sell it, you have to prove its safety – it can’t be highly addictive, and it can’t be dangerous. This process has begun, and we will see the full effects soon. In most cases, people are protesting about products that are now, or will soon be, illegal.
This is a very strong insinuation being made against a person, without the least bit of evidence. It is well known that Peter Dunne has a ‘particular approach’ to the regulation of the sectors he covers (tax, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, and now legalised drugs) which balances industry freedom against the harm caused. I think (quite strongly) that this balance is tilted much to far in the favour of alcohol and tobacco, but on legal drugs he seems to have got things mostly right. Dunne’s approach has not changed substantially in decades however. As for his son – he can do whatever he likes, within the bounds of the law – he’s a very smart man who doesn’t need to get inside gossip to have a very strong understanding of the law.
Just another baseless smear campaign.
Why even bring it up?
Why not just write We hate Peter Dunne.
[lprent: Perhaps you should actually read the post rather than just looking at the pictures? ]
Stop smoking that legal high shit.and you might be able to post something relevant.
Hmmm, well thats very interesting! However, I don’t feel outrageously scandalised by it, not immediately at least and would like to learn more before I make any judgements.
I’m more outraged by Dunne’s vote on legislation in this current Nat Govt over the last almost 6 years and the damage that has done. To quote Naturesong above:
“I would much rather that media in New Zealand, if they want to hold Mr Dunne to account, actually looks at the stuff he has done wrong, there’s a lot to choose from.
They could start with the phrase”“willing buyer – willing seller” ”
Onya Naturesong – and this is what the people of Ohariu need to consider on 20th September. But will they?
I have to say my observations of living in this electorate is that it is a bit “traditional”. That is the kindest word I can use to describe the people. It’s represented in the types of businesses here, the lack of visible community arts projects(compared to the more progressive and interesting neighbourhoods of Wgtn) and the prevalence of “family” values that seem to abound. It’s conservative through and through.
While these folks don’t seem to get that Dunne is working against the :”ordinary Kiwi” and see him as the reliable “family values” MP that turns up their kids school and the opening of an envelope, what they won’t tolerate is any whiff of perceived underhandedness (even though its been under their noses all the time).
This revelation could blow over by the end of the week but if the story grows it will be interesting to see how the locals take it. Many are keen to see the end of Dunne’s 30 year reign in Ohariu, but there are still many more who stubbornly support him, and turn a blind eye. Will this be enough to make them think twice?
This is just another distraction from the serious issue of how we deal with the many people addicted to and having their lives ruined by synthetic shit.
The Act is going to ban most of not all currently legal and any new synthetic drugs. But that won’t solve the problem of the many people currently addicted. It will just shift the problem. Unless other measures are taken the problem could get worse.
Pete – you will never stop people taking substances. never. People will drive miles from Wellington to Taranaki to find mushrooms so they can lie in fields and bush in the dark tripping.
Its not for me – but people do it. What needs to happen is to make sure people have good information to make informed choices. then on their head be it
Yes, and that’s my concern. All different laws do no matter how well intentioned, including the current one, is shuffle the problems around.
Banning psychoactive substances doesn’t stopped determined users from abusing themselves, especially but not exclusively those who are addicted.
I think the Act should eliminate most variants and especially the worst of the synthetic drugs and it should reduce some risks – but the core of the problem remains.
We could start treating all drug use (legal or not) as a health issue rather than a criminal one, that’d be a start.
The biggest (initial) problem with that is there seems to be absolutely no political will to even consider anything like this.
There are growing public calls to ban, ban, ban but that won’t fix things.
We need innovative leadership but on drug issues all we have are political mules trying to avoid annoyed voters.
Ahh yes, an old favourite of National and Labour when it comes to drug policy; running dog whistles past focus groups.
There is innovative leadership about though, they’re the ones constantly vilified in the press as a bunch of nutters.
Unfortunately the reality is they don’t seem very keen on doing anything about it either right now.
Only so much time in the day.
With National completing this round of asset stripping, and somewhat more pressing existential threat parties like National pose to humans on this planet, their plate is somewhat full.
Nice to haves like addressing systemic inequities and inefficient, poorly thought out laws which cause more social problems than they solve must take a back seat to the survival of New Zealand citizens.
Thankfully, Green party members by and large think intergenerationally rather than just the next news cycle, so policy development and revision is an ongoing process.
I look forward to the day that the Green Party has no reason to exist, whether it’s because the other parties have stolen all their policies, which is something both National and Labour are prone to do, or because they get into power and are able to legislate them.
We’ll always need a Green Party to nudge the others along, if nothing else. There’s widespread support for a bit of Green although there’s a wariness of too much. Most people are quite conservative about their way of life.
Well, the Green party at their core are conserative.
It comes through loud and clear then they are debating in the house, reoccurring themes like; accountability, transparency, good governance, ensure policy is evidence based, follow up legislative changes to ensure they are working as intended, honour the legal documents you sign – like treaties, ensure policies are cost effective etc.
Then you have all the stuff that appeals to
christiansJesus; tolerance, compassion, social justice, care for the poor, treat your fellow man the way you wish to be treated etcAdmittedly, they do have some radical ideas like don’t shit where you eat, and don’t burn down your own house.
But hey, it’s hard keeping a lid on all that craazy!
So my question here is this:
Why did Mai Chen and Geoffrey Palmer the principle partners at ChenPlamer not manage this a little bit better?
Given Mai’s deep knowledge of constitutional Lawyer and Geoffrey’ in depth and personal understanding of the dirty little game we call politics, Why when the job to represent the legal high industry arrive did they not say – Dunne jnr this is not for you sorry, conflict of interest might be brought up given Dunne snr is the Minister responsible for this area?
Why did they not ensure it was handled by someone without a familial connection?
Nothing to do with a set up job maybe? Not that I am saying it was – just asking the question to see if its plausible….
People make mistakes all the time – even people as experienced as Mai Chen.
Draco – that is a pretty poor defence for them. It doesn’t work for the National Party or their affiliates, this blog and its commentators would be all over them for a mistake – so it shouldn’t work for Geoff and his law firm…
Draco and Dave – This obviously isn’t a mistake by Mai Chen. There is no conflict of interest for Peter Dunne’s son to provide legal advice to the legal high industry. Please explain why there would be?
SW – I don’t think there is a a conflict of interest personally, as long as Father and Son are not discussing this in private and agreeing outcomes.
A lot of the posts on this topic say there is somehow a conflict of interest.
My point is simply this – ChenPalmer should have consider whether or not a Conflict of interest could or would be perceived to happen, by assigning Dunne jnr to represent the Legal Highs lobby group.
I think they would have as standard type assignment process. If it was me doing the assignment, I would probably have put another staffer on the assignment just to be ultra conservative in approach
But then again as I see no conflict its not really a big deal.
Dave, I am almost certain that it won’t be random – Mai Chen would have selected him because he is the best Lawyer they have (with capacity to act) for that particular client.
Ultra conservative from what stand point though? Should Mai Chen have anticipated ‘mud slinging’. There is a difference between a connection and a conflict of interest.
If there was a story about Sue Bradford’s daughter giving legal advice to an violence lobby group, would you consider that a bad call?
Appearance is everything though isn’t SW – as I said I don’t think there is a conflict personally, just think ChenPalmer could have anticipated the highly political nature of the work and made certain there staffer didn’t have his name dragged through the mud is all.
Sue’s daughter – given Sue has no power or control or ministerial responsibility for that area of policy answer has to be no. It might lead to factious family dinners but that’s a personal matter.
Hahahahaha – that is amazing lead footed for you, Draco. It’s clearly deliberate, if only in a symbolic way.
😈
A question from the live chat, mentioned in karols’s article and reply from Peter Dunne:
“2:27
Comment From Barry
Is it true you son is a legal rep for the legal high community? If so, does that cause any trouble at home/conflict?
12:27
Peter Dunne: Yes. No.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/global-drug-survey/9947906/Live-chat-Peter-Dunne-and-synthetic-cannabis
http://tvnz.co.nz/seven-sharp/peter-dunne-and-legal-highs-son-video-5932718
Here is the Seven Sharp piece from last night. Judge for yourselves.
Move along. No story here! Nonsense. This stinks.
Yes Seven Sharp does indeed stink !
And the Drug Foundation point to a post at Trip Me, it’s all worth reading but her’s a bit:
And here’s the end of it:
A ‘possible perception’ is the least of our worries when it comes to drugs. Let’s deal with the real problems.
At the end of the day, natural cannabis needs to be legalized. In an ideal world, we would have high CBD, low THC cannabis available for recreational and medical use and everyone would vaporize at a reasonable temp. But this is not an ideal world now is it?
Natural cannabis has MUCH of the same issues that we see with synthetic cannabis, if used and abused to the same extent however.
Any young person, under the age of 21, that smokes up to and above an ounce a week, of natural cannabis skunk, is going to suffer long term psychological damage. There have been some minor studies to prove this, but for those of us that have friends and family that have been smoking for years and years, we know this already.
ALCOHOL does exactly the same thing, only ten times worse. We are hearing reports of people getting violent and aggressive, but there is absolutely NO denying that there is a subset of the population that has these violent and aggressive tendencies without drugs or alcohol, so of course these people are going to suffer ill-effects. Don’t act like natural cannabis somehow doesn’t have these negative side effects. Because it does.
I find it absolutely mind blowing that people jump up and down claiming that the public is being used as some sort of human experiment, when we have these pharmaceutical companies shoveling all sorts of medicines down peoples throats that have pages upon pages of negative side effects. How IRONIC is it that most of the currently prescribed anti-depressants include side effects such as Nausea, Insomnia, Anxiety, Restlessness, Tremors, Sweating, Sleepiness or fatigue, Dry mouth, Headaches, SUICIDAL THOUGHTS!!! – Sound familiar???
Almost every medicine available is an ongoing public experiment, how can you not understand this?
We live in a world where hundreds and thousands of unregulated chemicals go in to the manufacture of house hold goods, cleaning products and our FOOD.
We also need to understand, that the Ministry of Health obviously has some extremely high level experts working on this law. If there was some sort of immediate or serious long term harm to the public, if used correctly, do you honestly think the products would still be on the shelves? I find it very hard to believe that the chemists, scientists and doctors working for, or advising the government haven’t done some sort of due diligence to ensure people aren’t going to drop dead.
Most of the synthetic cannbinoids were developed by some of the largest pharma companies in the world for human consumption, as medicines, or controls, or whatever, then of course many were then modified by equally intelligent chemists in order to change the effect or skirt the law. But the fact of the matter is, right now, the cannabinoids that are used in most products possibly aren’t the most ideal cannabinoids available and we are likely to see better studied and better suited noids in future products.
The biggest issue in all of this is education. Young people simply should not be using them at all. I think the age restriction should be 21 and not 18, same with alcohol quite frankly. Personally I think ALL packs should have some sort of warning stating that the chemicals contained in these products have NOT been thoroughly tested and are to be used at a users own risk. And people need to understand that, at the end of the day, Synthetic Cannabis is a DRUG. Just because it is legal does not make it suddenly some sort of magical substance that is safe from side effects and abuse. It’s not. No drugs are!
Somebody show me ONE cannabis user that doesn’t have problems sleeping at night or get agitated the day after smoking.
Somebody show me ONE alcohol user that hasn’t injured themselves or killed a few brain or liver cells from binge drinking.
The harms are all relative, and drugs are not going away any time soon. Sure we could “ban” synthetic cannabis, but there is no doubt in my mind that the people that are truly abusing these products are going to find another fix. Glue sniffing, huffing, pills, whatever.
Let’s also remember that not all synthetic highs are created equally. There are a number of “bad apples” in the industry, and the government are doing what they can now to weed these people out. (No pun intended) – Only now are we getting to the stage where all manufacturing is closely monitored, all chemicals need to be tested for purity, we are now getting to the stage (FINALLY) where chemicals and I guess the plant matter and finished product must go through some very very strict and serious tests to ensure they are “low risk”. Remember that this all takes time and money. The government also requires statistics to define what should be considered “low risk” – how do they get some of those statistics? From health departments of course. Obviously we have the toxicity testing and all that, but there is certainly an element of real life case studies that are needed. We have had almost ten years of synthetic cannabis (ab)use in New Zealand and with this data, the government is able to make a more informed decision.
We already know alcohol would NEVER pass these tests. But it’s all relative. If you are going to take a DRUG, then you know, there are some risks associated with the use of that drug. With the use of ANY drug. But consumers need to be educated that this is the case and consumers need to be of an age where they are able to make such informed decisions.
If natural cannabis were legal, the same thing would apply.
I’d like to take a step back for a minute, and let’s pretend like synthetic cannabis were never introduced. Where would we be along the road to better drug laws? Probably not very far, not even close to where we are now.
So let’s look at a few statistics shall we?
The latest global drug survey gave us an interesting insight in to New Zealand Drug Use, and it is hugely concerning;
7.9% of New Zealanders have used LSD in the past year, 31.9% in their lifetimes.
13.1% of New Zealanders have used “MDMA” in the past year, 36.4% in their lifetimes.
4.9% have used Amphetamines and 3.2% have used Cocaine in the past year.
Now let’s not kid ourselves here, how sure are we, that organized crime syndicates and local drug dealers have the end users health in mind when they are cutting their products for greater profits?
How sure are we that those 580 THOUSAND New Zealanders that have used “MDMA” in the past year actually got MDMA? How sure are we that those pills or bags of powder were not cut with HIGHLY HIGHLY dangerous chemicals or other synthetic drugs that are not regulated or tested?
Have any of you actually seen the number of new RC’s that are developed around the world on a monthly basis? Times are changing guys. We no longer live in the world of ‘cocaine’ ‘ecstasy’ and ‘cannabis’ – there are hundreds of thousands of drug dealers that don’t give two shits about what they are selling as long as it gives the user “a buzz” – and you know what else? – A large majority of users probably don’t give two shits about what they are taking either … so long as it gives them “a buzz”.
The same can be said for the 350 THOUSAND New Zealanders that took what they thought was “LSD” in the past 12 months – most likely made in a lab somewhere with poor quality controls, most likely not even LSD half of the time.
The same can be said for cocaine, meth, whatever people are taking these days. It’s a truly STAGGERING number of people that are taking recreational drugs. Unreal if you ask me.
So the reality is, people are going to use and abuse drugs, regardless of their safety profile, regardless or their legality and regardless of the cost.
If we, as a country, can make steps towards giving well over half a million New Zealanders (likely a hell of a lot more), the chance to use some of these recreational substances, with the knowledge that they don’t contain harmful adulterants, they are not cut to crap with god knows what, they are what they say they are on the pack (as if this happens with illegal drugs anyway) and they have the support of the health system if something goes wrong, then I truly believe we are going to be in a position where we are SAVING more lives than we are LOSING. Both in terms of fatalities and long term quality of life.
The social and economic costs of NOT continuing down this path of regulation is, in my opinion, are indescribable.
Now … back to where we stand at this very moment. We have synthetic cannabinoids that are awaiting trials and safety testing. We also we have a subset of people that are abusing them, not knowing that they could become addicted and cause some side effects. We also have legal high companies that are selling these products and are getting a hard time. Sure there are some bad apples like I said above, and we all know this, but there are also some people, that have a much greater vision for the future of this country, and the world. A world where good, honest, law abiding citizens aren’t locked up or given a criminal record for cannabis possession … a world where good, honest people, can relax or party hard on occasion with a safe regulated recreational pill, powder or substance without the fear of retribution, whatever that may be. And let’s just remember that it takes time and money to get to that point. We wouldn’t be half way down that path without this new law, we wouldn’t have this new law without synthetic cannabis, and without the legal highs companies being in the financial position to afford to develop and test these substances, we will never reach that goal or that vision, and all the hard work would be unwound and the underworld will once again reign supreme.
Let’s just hope that even after all the media hysteria, bullying and abuse at least one or two of the “good apples” can make it through and make the world a better place.
[karol: Neo, you have pretty much word for word repeated the post that Pete George linked to above. ie here.
Rather than repeat a post from eleswhere. This is against the policy of this blog, as stated within the Policy. Or are you double posting?]
How sure are we that those pills or bags of powder were not cut with HIGHLY HIGHLY dangerous chemicals or other synthetic drugs that are not regulated or tested?
Well, we can’t be sure, but the reality is that illegal drug manufacturing is a risky and expensive business and adding risky expensive additives that have ill effects (beyond the effects you’re after) just piles on cost.
Not to mention that your clients will not all be nice people who turn a blind eye to being poisoned.
Still, SNAFU.
It’s time to build some social media pressure to address this. Many people are talking and demanding things change, but in bubbles of babble.
This all needs to be connected and harnessed.
But not by you, because your connections with United Future mean you have a conflict of interest, Petty George.
That’s pathetic, with a big does of irony on the petty. If all you can do is put petty politics first then butt out.
Yeah nah Pete: read what Bill has to say at 7.2 and 13.
You’re always
lyingpaying lip service tosaying how we can do politics better. Here’s your opportunity. Take a principled stance and recognise that you are far too close to the issue to offer anything useful about the excessive influence of the Dunne family in this situation.Karol, Neo may not have seen what I posted (I quoted some of and linked to his post at Trip Me) .
I thought it was worth a full repeat here but decided not to risk it, but Neo may not know the protocols here.
We should of just decriminalize… …the current setup, the rush to find an commerical alternative, that someone can hold a copyright on, is just disgraceful. Turning young kiwis into lab experiments.
+1
This blog is about the stink of insider influence in the matter of “Legal” highs and this Government. Don’t let the trolls distract you with debate on marijuana.
99% of the population wants the synthetic shit banned.
The minister is refusing to ban the shit.
The minister’s son is making a living off the shit.
If that was happening in Australia or the Philippines we would call it corruption.
If Dunne had shouted out loudly in public that his son represented the legal high industry before any regulatory processes had begun this whole possible conflict of interest problem would have been sorted and nobody would be wondering if the legislation was to benefit the industry rather than the public.
Because this wasn’t done, there is the appearance of at least nepotism, but it’s hard to prove one way or the other.
“99% of the population wants the synthetic shit banned.
The minister is refusing to ban the shit.
The minister’s son is making a living off the shit”
You are an idiot, If Peter Dunne could ban the shit he would.
Hamilton has shut down all of its Legal high shops.
These other councils need to get off their lazy arse and work the law to their advantage
and do the same thing.
Um if Parliament bans this shit it is banned …
Is Dunne a member of the Government or not? If he is he has to admit that he did not ban the shit …
And Hamilton cannot shut down all of its shops. Dunne told it so …
Do you have any understanding of law?
I have been told by people who live in Hamilton that the council has closed the shops and Hamilton people have to drive to another town to buy these drugs.
When a product is banned these guys just sell a similar product. You cant ban products that
have not even been made yet. So you cant ban the shit.
Sure you can. You pass a law that says anything with a psychoactive effect on humans is illegal unless otherwise stated.
Done.
Felix. I don’t think you can do that, I believe you have to name the substance that you are banning
Naki man
Did Chen Palmer advise you of this?
Wait ’til you get the invoice!
Naki Man, what are you talking about?
Parliament. Is. Sovereign.
This favourite throw away line “Parliament is Sovereign” is so glib.
Firstly we have signed away some of our sovereignty. e.g. in practice we cannot pass laws that conflict with a range of international obligations without severe consequences (e.g we can’t decide to impose trade sanctions on Israel and chant “yay the Palestinians Parliament is sovereign”
Secondly you use the chant as a retort when someone calls you on a ridiculous or damaging proposal (or ignorant of good law).
So stop chanting felix.
Bullshit. Parliament can ban anything it likes.
Parliament is sovereign. There is no alternative.
Ignore him
Nope, you don’t. Only people who want loopholes in the law believe that.
Which would also ban chocolate, coffee, all forms of alcohol, a number of innocuous herbs, all psychopharmeceuticals and so forth. Can you not see a problem there?
There is no problem as I explained earlier.
Well Pop, I do have a philosophical problem with it in that I don’t think it’s really the state’s business.
However if we’ve
1. decided that we must regulate the sale of psychoactives, and
2. found that it’s futile to ban specific substances as they can be slightly altered, then
3. it makes more sense to ban them all and exempt the ones you want allowed.
http://www.legalhighs.co.nz/synthetic-cannabis/six-hamilton-legal-highs-stores-closed/2014
mickysavage. Hamilton is a Green free zone.
The present lack of a ban was due to Dunne’s work and recommendation. Basically, he could have had it banned and he didn’t.
Dunne should be up before the international human rights court for experimenting on our youth, in my opinion.
Gosh, a live chat with Peter Dunne. Be still my beating heart.
how can you tell he is a live
Dunno, but when the batteries are charged there’s a little flashing light behind his left ear.
Miravox, how is there an appearance of nepotism? Also, I understand it was in no way a secret.
It might not have been secret, but the public didn’t know about it. The appearance of nepotism is that Dunne ‘might’ tailor the legislation to suit his son’s objectives. Note I wrote appearance – imo there is not the evidence to say that this happened… but that’s the problem when there is bugger all openess in the who’s who and processes of developing regulations (and in other government business).
If Cunliffe stated he would ban synthetic dope he would immediately win thousands of votes. It would be the right thing to do for a variety of health reasons, and be an popular issue to take a stand on. Certainly more people would care about it than some bullshit policy on truck driving. People are sick of this shit. The legal detail could be sorted out in 5 minutes by Judge Judy plus commercials all it takes is the will to do it, Dunns idiot progeny should use some more of his own product and see how he fares mentally. But no he won’t he’ll just sell it to people who are too stupid to know any better. Well done dad you raised a drug dealer ( oh but its legal).
Where in the world has banning synthetic dope been successful? Banning any dope? Banning alcohol?
It succeeds in giving criminals a market, so apart from that.
Are you saying legalise everything? Didn’t know United Future was so…um…reckless.
I don’t speak for UF, I don’t have anything to do with them, and my views differ from Dunne’s on this, they always have.
The key points are:
– people will seek and use drugs no matter what is banned
– we have to find the safest way to allow them use drugs
– alcohol is entrenched and regulated so we already allow that
– the least worst drug options should be treated similarly
– this is likely to be cannabis plus any synthetics if they can prove they are about as safe
That’s the safest and least crime associated approach.
There’s a few details to be worked out but I think that’s the crux of the issue.
Banning everything has never worked and it never will work.
This based on the (false) premise there would be a major black market for this stuff. Its no real substitute for the real thing, and if it shared the same legal status as actual cannabis I doubt anyone would even bother
Off course legalizing real cannabis would also effectively sink this stuff in the water, and the potential tax take would be a real benefit to society
Real cannabis carries a “retail marijuana excise tax” of 15% in Colorado ( plus other sales taxes) (for recreational use ) making the total tax bill as high as 23% I believe medical use is untaxed.
$2 million USD in taxes just in January 2014 alone (the first month recreational sales and use became legal ) & the first $40 million raised has been earmarked toward school construction
sounds better than the situation we currently have here,
Thanks for the reply Miravox.
Well why would the public know? Should the public know if Bill English’s son worked in the finance sector? Tony Ryall’s as a doctor? Where is the public interest in knowing such things (again I highlight this was public anyway – just not reported on).
More to the point though, how can Dunne (Snr) tailor the legislation? Individual MPs are responsible for introducing Bills, but you need an awful amount of votes and several rounds of debates etc before any laws get passed!
But lets imagine that 1 MP can wrangle the system and pass a law that will benefit their kid (by supposedly duping the other 120 MPs). I want to know how this meant to benefit his son? His son works for Mai Chen as a lawyer. The client is not his but his firms. He will be on a salary that might be dependent on how many hours he works, but he cannot directly benefit from any financial gains made by one of his clients.
In short, is the allegation that it might appear like P Dunne passed a law that would benefit his son by potentially providing his sons law firm with a client they would not have otherwise had? I suggest that is a very very long bow.
“Well why would the public know? Should the public know if Bill English’s son worked in the finance sector? Tony Ryall’s as a doctor?”
If a family member is involved in supporting/lobbying for the industry the Minister is in regulating – yes, the public should know. As for tailoring legislation – have you never tailored the presentation of information? Lobbyists, for example, do it all the time and have be known to convince Ministers that it’s in the best interests of the public.
The son charges his time to the legal highs industry, and will be retained if he gets the results they want. He benefits if enacted regulation suits the legal highs industry.
Anyway, this sort of discussion is made entirely irrelevant if the public knows about potential conflicts of interest before the situations when they could possibly occur are underway. It’s pretty simple to be transparent and this government seems to have forgotten to do that quite frequently … Wong, Smith, Worth, Collins, Adams, Dunne, Key (Ian Fletcher, trusts, Tranzrail)… just for starters.
Edit: P.S. – reply button, bottom right.
I see! My apologies, please read response below haha.
I just honestly think this story is very lazy journalism and is a non-event. I don’t think lazy journalism and misunderstanding of how our legal and political system works is a good thing for the left, and shouldn’t be encouraged just because it goes against someone from the other team.
The Judith Collins conflict on the other hand, now that is where the focus should be…
No problem.
I don’t object to lawyers doing their job so I have no objection to Matthew Palmer doing his job. I do have a problem with government ministers not being entirely transparent about their connections when those family members have an interest in what they’re legislating for. one of the reasons for that objection is that when people find out after the event these sorts of stories happen.
If Ministers were transparent about their relevant connections, then stories like this could never happen, and there is no speculation about benefits, collusion or anything; else either because a conflict of interest is identified, managed and the public agree with that management, or the public agree there is no conflict of interest. This is the only point I was trying to make.
That you may not have known about it doesn’t mean the Dunnes weren’t transparent.
Neither tried to hide their identities or their involvements as far as I’m aware. It seems to have been well known and certainly wasn’t secret, having the same surname made the possibility of a relationship quite obvious.
The Seven Sharp item and this thread may prove that wrong.
Yeah sure George, like you the Dunne’s are totally ‘transparent’, thats why it takes about two seconds for everyone to see right through you…
Passive transparency vs proactive transparency. Of course you’d recognise passive [aggressive] as being transparent enough, although it rarely imparts knowledge. If Dunne Snr was proactive of course this would not be “news” on Seven Sharp.
I thought you were keen on Transparency Pete…
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02042014/#comment-793162
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09032014-2/#comment-784060
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09032014-2/#comment-784044
peter dunne could just release his dated letter showing when he declared the potential conflict. simple. yesterday would have been useful for him and his son. presumably the newspaper contacted him for comment before publishing?
This.
Expending energy chasing irrelevancies does two things that work against the broader “left” (the most redundant term in 21st century politics).
My inner conspiracy theorist wonders if this was the point of Seven Sharp’s piece. To sow distraction.
When holding politicians to account, care needs to be taken to ensure that actual conflicts of interest and corruption are highlighted instead of running around chasing butterflies.
It’s not as if the current National Government presents a paucity of conflicts of interest, corruption of process and outright corruption and abuse of power to choose from.
With Peter Dunne specifically, concentrate on his capitulation to the alcohol lobby, and the ethical vacuum he stepped into when he voted on the GCSB bill.
Nope, the appearance is that a law was passed that was badly influenced by the industry that it was to regulate via the familial connection. This is known as regulatory capture and is generally considered a Bad Thing. It doesn’t help that, seemingly, most people think that the law didn’t go far enough.
DTB – do you think I might be able change your mind on this one ha?
Let me know if you want to continue to discuss.
To be clear, I assure you I come from a ‘pure’ position – I am no Dunne supporter and I have no vested interest in arguing in support of his party or this government.
For years I have read this blog, but this is the first post I have actually contributed to. I post because I’m frustrated. This issue is symbolic of many that have been focused on by authors and commentators here, but in my opinion has no chance of making traction.
I’m frustrated because I see how much better the ‘Right’ handle PR than the ‘Left’ (or at least Labour). The public at large no longer join political parties – if you lose at PR you lose voters unnecessarily (perhaps a depressing outlook, but an unfortunate reality in 2014 NZ).
Today has been an interesting one on The Standard.
Firstly, I had no idea the Peter Dunne has so many supporters and that so many of them read The Standard.
Secondly I had no idea so many people were so incredibly forgiving and/or tolerant. No wonder National is still leading in the polls.
So you don’t have a problem with Geoffrey Palmer not declaring a conflict of interest (ie having his lawyer work on legislation that he introduced).
There is no suggestion that P Dunne’s son was advising the industry when the Bill was going through the house – so what is there to be transparent about?
Are suggesting a standard where if an MP’s family member gives legal advise on a piece of legislation they voted for, they must actively seek out the media and tell them?
I suggest that if Seven Sharp had journalists that understand our legal system this wouldn’t be a story.
How do you think this compares to the story about David Cunliffe’s use of trusts to get anonymous donations for his leadership campaign?
Miravox – this family member is a lawyer not a lobbyist – significant difference.
You haven’t addressed my point though. No matter how Dunne presents his Bill to Parliament he is but one vote and Parliament had the chance to amend it if it was bad law.
Further, his Dad introduced the Bill years ago. The law is passed, how can his son acting for a legal high lobbyist group now be a conflict? Is the suggestion the son can influence Dad to change the law? Or is the supposed conflict from when the law was passed before Dunne’s son was even acting for the group?
Also, the ‘benefit’ is tenuous at best. The son is retained for giving sound legal advice, not because his Dad once passed a law to regulate the Industry.
Not a PS Staffer – I am no Peter Dunne supporter, and you shouldn’t need to be to see a blatant media beat up when there is one.
I eagerly await you both objecting to Mathew Palmer’s body of work: http://chambers.co.nz/our-barristers/dr-matthew-s-r-palmer/
genuine question. is he just giving them legal advice or was he speaking with mps. I know he is a lawyer and. not a mr hooton. just wondered if lawyers for a group are sometimes a hybrid
The real story is who approved the 41 substances with an ‘interim approval’? These substances were given a short once over review and approved for sale and so e products were rejected. Who made those decisions and to what extent were either of the Dunne’s involved???
Hi Tracey – impossible to know without having more knowledge. It is entirely possible that he spoke with MPs though – be it seminars, conferences or making OIA requests.
Dunne has posted relevant to this on his blog today. He concludes:
In the meantime there are growing calls for easing the laws on cannabis as it is seen as a less bad alternative.
But that’s the thing. The debate was about legislation before Dunne stepped in and legalized these insanely bad alternatives. Key would never have moved on drugs, Dunne used the potential that is the coattail (that gives him a much larger voice) to push this disastrous legislation and delay legalization.
That’s not right. They were already legal, that’s why they are often referred to as legal highs.
Prior to the Act they were having to try and make them illegal one by one as they identified a problem drug and banned it, only for it to be quickly replaced by a variation.
There was no coattail pushing. The bill was supported across parties at select committee and was passed by 119 votes to 1.
It’s not disastrous legislation – it’s just not good legislation.
And that’s a load of bollocks as I’ve said before.
You’re right, just about the whole of Parliament’s wrong as are a lot of experts and groups involved in drugs?
Yes. It’s not my fault that they’re too wound up in how things are and can’t see how things should be.
It says a lot about the so called “War on Drugs’ when the legal stuff is more dangerous than its banned natural form.
It is odd how one form of cannabise is banned, But its ok for a ccompany to manufacture a synthetic and much more harmfull strand and be able to sell it freely in stores. My daughter is nine and I pray that our government has this under control befor she becomes of age and is temptd by this poision…..