Key lashes out with the smears over tax haven status

Written By: - Date published: 9:36 am, May 11th, 2016 - 122 comments
Categories: accountability, capitalism, john key, tax - Tags: , , ,

Key was disgraceful in parliament yesterday, doing his buffoon act to try and trivialise the tax haven issue, and lashing out with the smears:

John Key used “discredited allegations” to link Greenpeace to foreign trusts

Greenpeace boss and former MP Russel Norman says John Key is using “discredited allegations” that Greenpeace gained from a foreign trust to score political points.

During Question Time on Tuesday the Prime Minister told Green Party co-leader James Shaw, who replaced Norman last year, that he should speak to Greenpeace about why they’re implicated in the Panama Papers.

Key said there were “quite legitimate reasons why people have a foreign trust” and told Shaw to leave the House and “ring Greenpeace, Amnesty International and Red Cross because they are implicated in the papers”.
…
But Norman says the reference is to old papers from 2013, which have already been “discredited” after it was revealed rich investors had been naming charities as trust beneficiaries to avoid scrutiny by tax authorities. …

Yes that’s right, some dodgy foreign trust owners list charities as their “beneficiaries” and Key uses this as evidence that the charities are “implicated”. In the same rant he also had a go at Green MP Mojo Mathers, a woman with more integrity in her left little toe than Key has accumulated in his entire life. Andrew Little is right:

Panama Papers: Andrew Little accuses John Key of trivialising issues
…
Mr Key also tried to turn the tables on the left, arguing it was not only the rich named in the documents but also groups such as Greenpeace, Amnesty and the Red Cross.

Mr Key’s example may backfire. Greenpeace and Amnesty were both in an earlier 2013 leak when it was reported the charities’ names had been used without their knowledge or consent to hide the true identity of the beneficiaries.

The lack of a smoking gun did not appease Mr Little, who said Mr Key was not addressing the primary issue of New Zealand allowing foreigners to stash their money in New Zealand to avoid taxes in their homeland.

“This is typical John Key, minimising, trivialising. The National Party will be desperate to shut this down, minimise it, trivialise it. It is not good that we have just under 11,000 foreign trusts and we are part of a small group of countries that helps the mega-wealthy avoid tax responsibilities in their own countries. That’s just not something New Zealand should be doing.”

Exactly – NZ should not be in the business of exporting poverty.

In related reading, a good anonymous Herald editorial: NZ needs to assure world of trust scrutiny, and a summary by a long time observer: Gareth Vaughan argues PM John Key is failing in his role as promoter and custodian of NZ’s international standing and reputation over the Panama Papers.

122 comments on “Key lashes out with the smears over tax haven status ”

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  1. Macro 1
    11 May 2016 at 9:48 am

    Green MP Mojo Mathers, a woman with more integrity in her left little toe than Key has accumulated in his entire life.

    Quoted for truth.
    The man is simply a man child – he should resign.

    • Johan 1.1
      11 May 2016 at 11:27 am

      …and these Tory rat-bags have the nerve to label Andrew Little as “Angry”, how utterly pathetic when you look at John Key in the debating chamber.

      • D'Esterre 1.1.1
        11 May 2016 at 3:04 pm

        Johan: “…these Tory rat-bags have the nerve to label Andrew Little as “Angry”, how utterly pathetic when you look at John Key in the debating chamber.”

        Indeed. I have long since stopped listening to Question Time in Parliament, just because of the PM’s egregiously ad hominem and tendentious – and sometimes mendacious – approach to questions. Life is too short…

      • Whateva next? 1.1.2
        11 May 2016 at 8:29 pm

        I don’t know how Labour MP’s can stay so calm facing that mob during NZQT

    • Robert Atack 1.2
      11 May 2016 at 12:51 pm

      lest we forget Mojo is pro kiwiSaver, which to be maintained has to destroy the environment. It is 100% dependent on GROWTH ffs

  2. Jack Ramaka 2
    11 May 2016 at 9:53 am

    Key is the master of using red herrings as bait in Parliament ?

    Key needs to concentrate on running the NZ Economy, I am more concerned about where he is spending our borrowings $120 Billion and rising , we thought Labour were bad under Michael Cullen and he only borrowed $10 Billion ?

    I don’t think Key is actually as clever as he and the NZ Press make out ?

    NZ has gone from No 1 in the OECD in 1975 to No 28 in the OECD in 2015, this is a very poor performance from recent National and Labour Governments.

    We have also during this period disposed of virtually all our State Owned Assets?

    Meanwhile the wealthy 1% percenters have dramatically increased their net wealth, go figure that out ?

    Interesting many of the 1 % percenters have been involved in the privatisation of our State Assets ?

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1
      11 May 2016 at 11:30 am

      +1

    • Richardrawshark 2.2
      11 May 2016 at 11:49 am

      That’s right Jack, angles and sound bites are the workings of spin doctors, these replies he uses are rehearsed and pre prepared by big money paying big companies to help them manage the public.

      I’m sure he comes up with a few of his own but for every crisis you can bet the National party is phoning those spin merchants straight away.

    • D'Esterre 2.3
      11 May 2016 at 3:14 pm

      Jack Ramaka: “I don’t think Key is actually as clever as he and the NZ Press make out ?”

      That’s been obvious from the start, in my view. Press blinded by a good publicity machine.

  3. Tracey 3
    11 May 2016 at 9:55 am

    Key is claiming he looked through the Panama papers which is a reversal of his usual claims. He usually claims he hasn’t read anything and does not know anything.

  4. Heather.Grimwood 4
    11 May 2016 at 9:59 am

    Sadly my TV screen blanked out for ALL question time, resuming as House was reorganising for general business. Radio NZ ( from different device and power plug) was out for me until Question 7. While likely a local aberration, I can’t but wonder at exactness of timing of TV blackout. Other channels were operating.

    • left for dead 4.1
      11 May 2016 at 11:27 am

      Sadly I sore the whole stunt Heather and it did hurt, maybe local fault.

    • Expat 4.2
      11 May 2016 at 11:33 am

      Heather.Grimwood

      Isn’t it funny how the Govt has increased the level of cynicism among so many, their dishonesty knows no bounds.

    • Richardrawshark 4.3
      11 May 2016 at 11:51 am

      Heather, you were blessed to have missed it. You would still be fuming now and disgusted by what he said and how he behaved to a deaf lady.

      I’ve never seen such disgusting behaviour in parliament to date.

      • Heather.Grimwood 4.3.1
        11 May 2016 at 1:40 pm

        Thanks for comments on my missing the telecast. I’ve gathered enough info since to realise it was a contemptible display. Just couldn’t but be cynical about blackout, but very thankful not widespread i.e. for real).

    • D'Esterre 4.4
      11 May 2016 at 3:18 pm

      The PM was ejected from the House at Question Time today

  5. maui 5
    11 May 2016 at 10:00 am

    The damage is done, smear the Greens/Greenpeace, its what your supporters want to hear, a scapegoat. Much the same was done when Greenpeace climbed onto Parliament, message ignored, labelled a security issue, and reparroted on all the news bulletins.

  6. Jack Ramaka 6
    11 May 2016 at 10:07 am

    Key reverting to USA Trump Style smear politics, just smear the opposition and hopefully most of it will stick, however he has MSM on his side to keep up the BS.

    Unfortunately most New Zealanders believe what they hear and see on MSM.

    Time to read between the lines of BS.

    • Enough is Enough 6.1
      11 May 2016 at 10:44 am

      And he is going to be total trouble when his name is finally revealed.

      There have now been enough hints for everyone to know that Key is in this up to his eyeballs.

      Hence the reason for his smears. He is trying to take others down with him.

      A crook

  7. Reddelusion 7
    11 May 2016 at 10:20 am

    Pot calling kettle black here this whole thing is political smear hit job, the left try to smear Jk every day but for some ready go holier than though when it’s thrown back at them, it’s politics if you have not noticed

    • Infused 7.1
      11 May 2016 at 10:35 am

      Exactly. One of the biggest smear jobs in history. Still with no illegal dealings being found.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1
        11 May 2016 at 11:45 am

        But lots and lots of unethical ones – unethical ones that the right-wing are defending.

        • Nessalt 7.1.1.1
          11 May 2016 at 1:46 pm

          Apart from pointing out the obvious, that crying that it’s not fair is for drop kick losers, how is this unethical?

          Some foreign trusts may be indulging in illegality, most aren’t. but all must be scrapped because a few are dodgy?

          we could apply your whatever your answer is to whether all trusts must be scrapped because of the legality of a few to so many things.

          YOU’VE decided it’s unethical, Much of NZ think avoidance is ethical and perfectly legal and therefore must be actively engaged in. Which is why NZ has broad based tax laws with few exemptions, minimizing the possibility of avoidance. making them the envy of the world. a legacy of labour no less.

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1.1
            11 May 2016 at 2:14 pm

            Apart from pointing out the obvious, that crying that it’s not fair is for drop kick losers, how is this unethical?

            Because it’s outright bloody theft from the rest of us.

            Some foreign trusts may be indulging in illegality, most aren’t. but all must be scrapped because a few are dodgy?

            It seems that it’s the other way around with most engaging in illegal/unethical behaviour while a few may be legitimate. Just because something’s legal doesn’t make it right. Avoiding taxes is unethical.

            Much of NZ think avoidance is ethical and perfectly legal and therefore must be actively engaged in.

            And I’m pretty sure that that much you mention is probably a minority with the majority of people actually against it.

            Which is why NZ has broad based tax laws with few exemptions, minimizing the possibility of avoidance. making them the envy of the world. a legacy of labour no less.

            Obviously not broad enough as the rich still don’t pay their fair share.

            • Nessalt 7.1.1.1.1.1
              11 May 2016 at 2:35 pm

              Apart from pointing out the obvious, that crying that it’s not fair is for drop kick losers, how is this unethical?

              Because it’s outright bloody theft from the rest of us.

              But it’s not? you aren’t missing out on anything

              Some foreign trusts may be indulging in illegality, most aren’t. but all must be scrapped because a few are dodgy?

              It seems that it’s the other way around with most engaging in illegal/unethical behaviour while a few may be legitimate. Just because something’s legal doesn’t make it right. Avoiding taxes is unethical.

              It seems to be that most are engaging in lawful behaviour, with few as always, ruining it. Avoiding taxes is not unethical. if the law makes it possible to be avoided, then it’s your moral obligation to avoid it. you can pay more tax if you feel so inclined, but don’t cry when no else chooses to follow your lead or pat you on the back for doing so.

              Much of NZ think avoidance is ethical and perfectly legal and therefore must be actively engaged in.

              And I’m pretty sure that that much you mention is probably a minority with the majority of people actually against it.

              All New Zealanders are happy paying a fair level of tax. none want to taxed unfairly, which is what happens if you don’t follow your moral obligation to avoid paying too much tax.

              Which is why NZ has broad based tax laws with few exemptions, minimizing the possibility of avoidance. making them the envy of the world. a legacy of labour no less.

              Obviously not broad enough as the rich still don’t pay their fair share.

              there are more than just the rich included as sources of lost tax revenue in that article draco. Plenty of little sole traders who indulge in some tax evasion there. You seem to have confused the fact that the top 10% pay 44% of the total tax take with the concept of “Fair Share”

              • Draco T Bastard …
                11 May 2016 at 4:10 pm

                But it’s not? you aren’t missing out on anything

                Tell me. If I walked into your business, got you to provide the service that you provide and then not paid you for it would you think that you weren’t missing out on something?

                Taxes are payment for services rendered.

                It seems to be that most are engaging in lawful behaviour, with few as always, ruining it. Avoiding taxes is not unethical. if the law makes it possible to be avoided, then it’s your moral obligation to avoid it. you can pay more tax if you feel so inclined, but don’t cry when no else chooses to follow your lead or pat you on the back for doing so.

                Except that that a load of bollocks:

                1. Just because it’s lawful doesn’t make it ethical
                2. If the law does allow you to avoid paying the full taxes that you should be paying then the law is at fault and needs changing
                3. It’s your moral obligation to ensure that society continues to function. Avoiding taxes is avoiding that responsibility

                All New Zealanders are happy paying a fair level of tax. none want to taxed unfairly, which is what happens if you don’t follow your moral obligation to avoid paying too much tax.

                More bollocks

                The simplistic position that a corporation has a duty to avoid tax is therefore simply not sustainable: even if such an obligation existed it is constrained and as such subject to significant, ethical, judgement. – See more at: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2010/12/17/the-ethics-of-tax-avoidance/#sthash.BmTt3f39.dpuf

                You seem to have confused the fact that the top 10% pay 44% of the total tax take with the concept of “Fair Share”

                If they were paying their fair share they’d be paying more than 50%. And even then you’re only looking at PAYE and not the real rich who don’t pay taxes in the top tax bracket despite being multi-millionaires.

                • Nessalt …
                  11 May 2016 at 6:05 pm

                  1. Just because it’s lawful doesn’t make it ethical
                  that is true to a degree. I’ll give you that.

                  2. If the law does allow you to avoid paying the full taxes that you should be paying then the law is at fault and needs changing
                  But the law does allow for the full payment of tax? you are talking about a manner of degrees for what is the full payment of tax.

                  3. It’s your moral obligation to ensure that society continues to function. Avoiding taxes is avoiding that responsibility
                  But society does function? Avoiding paying tax you don’t need to pay does not equal avoiding any moral obligation to society

                  Won’t bother with the rest of your comment, that’s ideaology and a matter of opinion. something i don’t think we will ever agree on.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    11 May 2016 at 6:34 pm

                    But the law does allow for the full payment of tax?

                    No, as you point out, the law allows the system to be gamed. Such gaming of the system prevents the full payment of taxes.

                    But society does function? Avoiding paying tax you don’t need to pay does not equal avoiding any moral obligation to society

                    The way that the tax havens work does. It is the corporations and rich people gaming the system so as to evade the taxes and thus the obligations that they have to the society that they work/live in.

                    Won’t bother with the rest of your comment, that’s ideaology and a matter of opinion.

                    No, actually, it’s not. Ethics is logical and consistent and is thus not opinion.

    • Kelly-Ned 7.2
      11 May 2016 at 10:39 am

      In thus case the left (as you call it) are simply stating truth, asking appropriate questions the demand answers. Open your eyes reddelusion. (appropriate name really)

      • Reddelusion 7.2.1
        11 May 2016 at 11:29 am

        And getting appropriate answers

        1 nothing illegal has occurred barring upsetting selective morale sensitivities of the leftie luvies

        2 Trusts exists for valid reasons

        3 NZ trust laws need to be tidied up around disclosure rules that wil come out of pending review

        that’s it the rest is just politics

        • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1.1
          11 May 2016 at 11:47 am

          1. But unethical ones have which our laws support. So why are our laws unethical?
          2. No they don’t
          3. They need more than just tidying up.

          • Nessalt 7.2.1.1.1
            11 May 2016 at 1:49 pm

            What is unethical about the majority of these trusts?

            • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1.1.1.1
              11 May 2016 at 2:07 pm

              It seems that they only exist to evade tax.

              • Nessalt …
                11 May 2016 at 2:37 pm

                Not true. a minority maybe. Shall we cancel all trusts because a minority are breaking the law? lets do away with benefits too while we are at it. Same principle. benefit fraud is stealing from the rest of us. and it’s the principle that counts here.

                The majority may be avoiding tax, but that is perfectly ethical. Actually, it’s obligatory. Greens do it, green peace do it. why can’t the rest of us?

                • Anno1701 …
                  11 May 2016 at 2:44 pm

                  personally i minimize my tax by going on a benefit from time to time

                  i call it “claw back” …..

                  i must be pretty tax neutral by now !

                  • Nessalt …
                    11 May 2016 at 3:11 pm

                    Congratulations. My sister does the same. I’m personally not a fan of that approach, but if it means I can do it how I want to without sanctimonious pricks like draco banging on about it, i’ll keep my mouth shut.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  11 May 2016 at 3:35 pm

                  Shall we cancel all trusts because a minority are breaking the law?

                  Except that it’ seems to be the majority not a minority and the laws seem to have been passed to allow it.

                  The majority may be avoiding tax, but that is perfectly ethical.

                  I didn’t say avoiding – I said evading and even Don Brash thinks that unacceptable.

                  And, no, I don’t think avoiding tax is ethical either but that comes down more to means and intent. Transfer pricing and loans are used to reduce taxes when they shouldn’t be.

                  • Nessalt …
                    11 May 2016 at 6:08 pm

                    No one is arguing that evading tax is acceptable. that’s why it’s illegal.

                    Transfer pricing is the by product of international business. It’s often more to the complexities of adjusting pricing and business practices between jurisdictions, but it allows for gaming the system.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      11 May 2016 at 6:28 pm

                      The rules shouldn’t allow for gaming the system. It is that gaming the system that turns avoidance into evasion and it is the latter that we’re seeing from trusts in tax havens such as NZ.

              • pete …
                11 May 2016 at 5:38 pm

                …and money laundering

    • Johan 7.3
      11 May 2016 at 11:33 am

      No one needs to smear John Key, the position he is found himself in is of his own doing. In the past it was always a matter of lying his way out of a sticky situation and seeing if the polls were in his favour;-))))

      • Anno1701 7.3.1
        11 May 2016 at 1:16 pm

        IMO John Key IS a smear

        a large one…

        • Once was Tim 7.3.1.1
          11 May 2016 at 1:57 pm

          Are you suggesting he might just be a skid mark in Brother History’s undies.
          I think you might be correct but I’m also sure many Natzis are thinking its nothing a little Surf couldn’t correct
          Sometimes I wonder how Bronagh copes (seriously). [BLiP: Deleted. Unnecessary.]

    • The New Student 7.4
      11 May 2016 at 3:58 pm

      Is a “smear” another term for “telling it like it is”?

  8. dv 8
    11 May 2016 at 11:07 am

    Isn’t misleading parliament a serious offence?

    • Pasupial 8.1
      11 May 2016 at 11:11 am

      dv

      If the Speaker can be persuaded to take notice of it; yes. My guess is that anyone who tries to raise the issue of Key’s lies will be ejected from the chamber.

      • Murray Simmonds 8.1.1
        11 May 2016 at 1:01 pm

        “My guess is that anyone who tries to raise the issue of Key’s lies will be ejected from the chamber.”

        Exactly right Pasupial.

        Actually, for a while there yesterday, Key’s performance was so dismal that I wondered if he was actually TRYING to get himself thrown out of the house. You know, the ultimate form of “Deflection”: Get yourself thrown out so you won’t have to answer the questions. (And the Speaker did threaten to throw him out on one occasion If I heard it correctly.)

        • Murray Simmonds 8.1.1.1
          11 May 2016 at 2:30 pm

          2.25 pm.

          What’d I just say? The prime minister just got thrown out.

          Was it deliberate on the PM’s part? Well yes, I think so.

          He was losing big time in response to Jamie Shaws’ questions.

          • Pasupial 8.1.1.1.1
            11 May 2016 at 2:51 pm

            Good call on your part then Murray! I rarely watch PTV myself (as it is a needless aggravation to add on top of everyday stress). But do but admire those who can hack the effort of; gleaning the few insights from that carnival of deceit and obfuscation.

            • Murray Simmonds 8.1.1.1.1.1
              11 May 2016 at 3:25 pm

              Yes, Pasupial.

              But all i have to do, at my age, is reach for the heart tablets, and occasionally hurl abuse back at the telly at the parade of National idiots getting up one by one and “lying their teeth out” . . . . and (so far . . . all’s well.)

              And hey,, Andrew Little gave an EXCELLENT speech in the “General Debate” today, following question time. Then walked out as Nick Smith began his totally idiotic reply!

              • Murray Simmonds …
                11 May 2016 at 3:39 pm

                3.35 pm:

                . . . . . and a REALLY excellent speech from Dr Kennedy Graham on the shortened timeframe for consideration of the TPTA . . . .

                While the GNATS keep rabbiting on about who needs to apologise to who (including the Chinese) . . .

          • D'Esterre 8.1.1.1.2
            11 May 2016 at 3:24 pm

            Murray Simmonds: “What’d I just say? The prime minister just got thrown out.

            Was it deliberate on the PM’s part? Well yes, I think so.

            He was losing big time in response to Jamie Shaws’ questions.”

            That’s a view shared by a member of this household.

  9. Nick 9
    11 May 2016 at 11:11 am

    Why would a Prime Minister with New Zealand’s best interests at heart not:

    1) Acknowledge there is a problem
    2) Condemn unethical, immoral and illegal activity exposed through the Panama Papers
    3) Fully commit to wide sweeping action to shore up the flawed laws that allow our reputation to be dragged through the mud?

    Gareth Vaughan – interest.co.nz

    Seems very straightforward…why does PM have so much resistance to simple actionable steps, as Gareth suggests

    • Bearded Git 9.1
      11 May 2016 at 11:31 am

      Oh come come-surely to trivialise and lie is better?

      Key will make some token changes to trust law, the minimum he can get away with. He will claim this is strong action and that NZ’s reputation is safe again. The MSM will lap it up.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.2
      11 May 2016 at 12:01 pm

      He’s not there for NZ’s best interests but to protect the rich.

      1. That won’t protect the rich
      2. See 1.
      3. See 1.

  10. Jack Ramaka 10
    11 May 2016 at 11:17 am

    If terrorist organisations like the IRA, Hamas or Al Quaeda have been using NZ Trust Regimes to salt away money surely this is worthy of examination by the IRD and International Criminal Investigation Organisations.

    Isn’t it about time all nations got together and stamped out Tax Havens and Tax Evasion ?

    • Johan 10.1
      11 May 2016 at 11:36 am

      …all this comes down to personal greed;-)))

    • Bob 10.2
      11 May 2016 at 1:05 pm

      “Isn’t it about time all nations got together and stamped out Tax Havens and Tax Evasion?”
      Yes, but even if you do stamp out tax havens you will simply see companies basing their head office out of countries like Ireland who have extremely low company tax rates and shuffling funds over there.
      Someone needs to come up with a simple way of taxing the movement of money within and out of a country, rather than our current system of depreciation, tax credits and shuffling of funds offshore. I can’t figure out a way of doing it, but I’m sure there are smarter people than me out there that can come up with an elegant solution.

  11. ianmac 11
    11 May 2016 at 11:41 am

    Key will get out of this because his context was that just because a name is on the List does not mean that they have done something bad. The Red Cross and Greenpeace proves his point so he can’t be captured for misleading or being asked to apologise. Damn him. He is correct. Pity!

  12. Richardrawshark 12
    11 May 2016 at 11:43 am

    I watched P TV yesterday when Key attacked the Greens deaf lady MP. I forget her name my apologies.

    Anyway it was disgraceful. If you saw it on the streets you would have stepped in and punched him one.

    I am still outraged by it. I feel so angry he would do that to point score and spread misinformation.

    Well two can play that game.

    It’s pretty clear keys been caught lieing on many occasions. Can the MP’s not now call him a liar at every opportunity and hey if he sues great, see you in court where we can argue over them all.

    he’s a disgrace, and dangerous. He has to go whether the right like him or not.

    • Molly 12.1
      11 May 2016 at 11:58 am

      Unfortunately, there are many MPs in National that will eagerly take his place.

      Although I agree that John Key is without integrity, at the moment if he goes – I can think of many others who can quite effectively take his place in acting in immoral and corrupt ways. They are practising this constantly.

      It is always correct to ask for our representatives to adhere to a minimum requirement for morality, honesty and integrity. Our current first statesman never meets that bar.

      Until that position is held by someone who does, the MSM and the general public should continue to voice their criticism. And even then, remain vigilant.

      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1
        11 May 2016 at 12:04 pm

        It is always correct to ask for our representatives to adhere to a minimum requirement for morality, honesty and integrity. Our current first statesman never meets that bar.

        I’m pretty sure that no National MP does and I’m and not sure that the rest of the governing coalition do either.

    • Jenny Kirk 12.2
      11 May 2016 at 2:55 pm

      Unfortunately Richardrawshark Parliament has strict rules on how people can describe an MP (or PM). They are not allowed to call an MP (PM) a liar in the House. Nor can they imply he is lying. And doing so outside the House, yes – they could, and yes he would sue and that would take up valuable time, energy and resources on those defending such comments. Not worth it. There are too many other important matters for Opposition MPs to deal with.

  13. mary_a 13
    11 May 2016 at 11:47 am

    Like the trouper she is, Mojo Mathers didn’t hesitate to challenge FJK’s untrue, spiteful comment towards her. Immediately she alone, in less than a minute, discredited the PM, proving him to be the ignorant vicious piece of excrement he is, blistering him with her statement, something other MPs have been unable to do so far, as far as this present topic is concerned.

    The Parliamentary session yesterday was about as disgraceful as it could possibly get, with Speaker Carter giving FJK leeway to make false statements against three charities, including a hearing impaired MP, who does a remarkable job representing disabled NZers, of which I am one, being deaf.

    I sincerely hope there are apologies forthcoming in today’s session, directed at the three charities, Greenpeace, Amnesty International and the Red Cross, as well as to Mojo Mathers, with the focus on the PM and his poor excuse for a partisan Speaker, for allowing the comments to go unchallenged!

    • Richardrawshark 13.1
      11 May 2016 at 12:02 pm

      Thank you Mary, I am right, I am not the only one that found his behaviour a disgrace.

      However he will never admit to being wrong.

      I am left with my Opposition MP’s to use avenues of legality I will be unaware of , you know parliamentary law to hold him to account, upon them we rely.

      What’s the option if he merges media outlets and controls the media and government. Civil war?

    • Bearded Git 13.2
      11 May 2016 at 12:21 pm

      So true Mary. Probably a big mistake by Key attacking Mojo so cynically and stupidly (why do people think Key is smart?). It must be difficult for the thinking members of the National Party to stomach.

      • Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster) 13.2.1
        11 May 2016 at 2:02 pm

        I’m sorry, but isn’t that an oxymoron? “Thinking members of the National Party.”

        • Bearded Git 13.2.1.1
          11 May 2016 at 3:39 pm

          I expected that response from somebody. But, much though I despise this government, there must be decent fair-minded members of National having second thoughts about retaining Key as leader given his ongoing ridiculous behaviour.

          Look at the way he refused to apologise to James Shaw in parliament today about his obvious smears against Greenpeace etc. Just pathetic, unprincipled, unscrupulous, nasty, petty….please add further adjectives of choice.

          • Murray Simmonds 13.2.1.1.1
            11 May 2016 at 4:28 pm

            I think you are right, “Bearded Git”. I’ve been watching the expressions on GNATS’ faces during question time, while Key speaks in the house, for some time. A lot of the previous “Looks of admiration” have been replaced recently by what appear to me to be “looks of concern”.

            its particularly obvious on the face of that goon from Hamiton East (i think) who sits directly behind him. Kinda interesting akshully . . . .

          • Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster) 13.2.1.1.2
            12 May 2016 at 3:56 am

            Actually, I do agree with you, BG. My comment was in the nature of a little light relief.

            There must be many members of the once-proud National Party who are squirming as they listen to this clown in Parliament, and out of it.

      • Whateva next? 13.2.2
        11 May 2016 at 8:45 pm

        Not very “charismatic”

  14. Expat 14
    11 May 2016 at 11:52 am

    Anthony

    “Key was disgraceful in parliament yesterday, ”

    I don’t think Iv’e ever seen Key in parliament when he hasn’t been “disgraceful”, he would have to be the the most dishonest PM, NZ has ever had, and when he goes next year, the only thing people will remember him for is his lies.

  15. Jack Ramaka 15
    11 May 2016 at 11:58 am

    “Still the most popular PM ever’.

    • Richardrawshark 15.1
      11 May 2016 at 12:03 pm

      Pity your average man didn’t watch PTV? I bet he’d be gone by close of session?

      • indiana 15.1.1
        11 May 2016 at 12:27 pm

        what if the average man agrees with Key? – it might have some reasoning as to why his popularity far exceeds that of Little. Ah but then average man must be just plain stupid….the default position held by those that lose elections.

  16. Richardrawshark 16
    11 May 2016 at 12:36 pm

    So Indiana I know what your saying, I was referring to someone attacking a deaf woman. Even you would come to her aide I would presume?

    If people actually saw how he behaved in that instance honestly it would have been an eye opener.. pity I cannot get a recording to link of it. I’m sure you’d be a little upset, maybe not as much as me, but still, not to happy about it. Perhaps it would then change your view of the guy. Just saying.

  17. upnorth 17
    11 May 2016 at 1:03 pm

    The Guardian newspapers has two articles (sorry don’t know how to link)

    1. Greenpeace losses 3M on currency speculation and apologises (2014 article)
    2. Greenpeace barred from India because it failed to disclose information to the government on foreign funding (2015 article)

    The point I would like to make – if politics is about perception surely these two articles only add to the perception.

    • Anno1701 17.1
      11 May 2016 at 1:22 pm

      “2. Greenpeace barred from India because it failed to disclose information to the government on foreign funding (2015 article)”

      they were barred from India (not actually technically accurate ) because someone in the coal industry bribed Indian politicians to label them “economic terrorists” because they kept stopping destructive coal projects from getting off the ground

  18. Richardrawshark 18
    11 May 2016 at 1:22 pm

    Well as usual mother nature will come to Nationals aide, I having been an avid watcher of Geonet and Ruapehu has been getting more active and the crater heating, Ruapehu just started rumbling in the last two hours, and the alert level has been raised again. She seems to be waking.

    If you live there or abouts like me, i’d advise extra alertness at the moment. Keep a radio handy at least.

  19. Psycho Milt 19
    11 May 2016 at 1:28 pm

    In the same rant he also had a go at Green MP Mojo Mathers, a woman with more integrity in her left little toe than Key has accumulated in his entire life.

    And how did Key’s dirty politics crew get info that Mojo Mathers is a beneficiary of a family trust in the UK, so that they could use it in a smear attempt? Well, i’m guessing they could look it up because the UK, unlike NZ, sensibly requires disclosure of the settlors and beneficiaries of offshore trusts. Irony, much?

    • Jenny Kirk 19.1
      11 May 2016 at 2:59 pm

      It was probably in Mojo’s declaration of assets – whatever its called, Psycho Milt.

    • D'Esterre 19.2
      11 May 2016 at 3:54 pm

      Psycho Milt: “And how did Key’s dirty politics crew get info that Mojo Mathers is a beneficiary of a family trust in the UK, so that they could use it in a smear attempt?”

      She declared it. In Parliament, I think. I knew about it, anyway.

  20. whispering kate 20
    11 May 2016 at 1:28 pm

    The PM’s nastiness/viciousness pervades NZ society everywhere. He and all others in Parliament should be setting an example for the rest of us, so its no wonder we see this cruelty, and vicious nastiness on a day to day basis. The young females who almost kicked a lady senseless in her shop which was on the news. The fights in the street outside pubs/clubs and people being king hit for no other reason than its fun to do. School kids having “organised” fights outside the school grounds or at bus stops – the place has become like a feral wilderness. What has happened to all of us that we are so unhappy that we must behave like thugs physically and verbally. Where have our communities gone to become so lost and loveless.

    The problem is so vast one is bewildered as to where to go to from here, we surely can’t stoop any lower. How do we sleep at night? Unemployment, violence in the family home, hungry kids, people drugged up medically or illegally so they can carry on because life is such a burden. Low wages, not enough to even live on without struggling, no hope of a home of one’s own. NZ has gone and the lights have gone out from the place.

    I feel for every young person today and for their future, its bleak, very bleak what they have in store for them.

    • Richardrawshark 20.1
      11 May 2016 at 1:42 pm

      +100 Kate

      I say the exact same thing to myself daily, and it’s confirmed by what I see and read.

      It sickens me people behave this way towards their fellow human beings.

      Well said, please post that in the Herald if you can, it’s a good comment.

      • whispering kate 20.1.1
        11 May 2016 at 1:58 pm

        Thank you Richardrawshark but no thanks for the Herald. People who read the Herald wouldn’t be interested in anything I had to say!!! I read it daily for many years and 3 years ago I just realised what terrible tripe was being written for us to ingest. The NZ Herald is an insult to us and I couldn’t care less if it is disbanded.

        The Listener which I enjoyed for years is much the same, it’s now a lifestyle magazine, filled with health, food, travel, whatever can be published without telling us what we really need – a thinking person’s magazine telling us how it is in this country truthfully, even Jane Clifton’s political column has been diluted to where it really isn’t worth reading. Bill Ralston’s column is the same, just rubbish.

        I had family over from the States just recently and they left some “The Atlantic” magazines to read – we are seriously lacking in decent stuff to read out here, there was such a lot of great reading in them. Its no wonder people are so disengaged in our local political scene, they have nothing to guide them or to let them form opinions of their own.

        Even our TV and Radio Live programmes are unmitigated garbage filled with fluff and sound bites – no wonder everyone is taking drugs of some kind!! Thank you for your comments though.

    • seeker 20.2
      11 May 2016 at 1:55 pm

      Likewise kate, likewise , especially regarding your last sentence.
      I know this is a secular country,, but I feel key’s wicked indifferencee and behaviour together with that of his unkind gpvernment are going to get such a shock from the Almighty one day as it so rightly deserves. The moral universe cannot be mocked forever.

  21. Richardrawshark 21
    11 May 2016 at 2:26 pm

    and Key gets a hospital pass by Carter and kicked out avoiding anymore question time.

    enough said.

  22. Smilin 22
    11 May 2016 at 2:50 pm

    Key is only good at making money for corporations and sucking the country into a debt hole that we cant get out of without our sovereign right to govern being sold down the drain
    Today has been more of the same. Key is avoiding the card that was why he was sponsored into politics in the first place and quite frankly hes so dodgy now its all about his kthood in keeping with his mate selector textor the biggest bs artist in the business.
    Thanks for nothing HRH QE 2
    I dont think Helen Clark’s govt ever had any idea about the secrecy surrounding foreign trusts used in NZ being directly connected to the Panama hub ,cartel of international crime because before this it was just seen as something in a Bogart movie

  23. weka 23
    11 May 2016 at 2:57 pm

    This is low even by Key’s usual standards. I guess they’re can see the approaching point of nothing left to lose.

  24. greywarshark 24
    11 May 2016 at 3:01 pm

    Breaking News:
    JOHN KEY KICKED OUT OF PARLIAMENT
    John Key kicked out of Parliament

    4 minutes ago

    Prime Minister John Key has been ejected from the House for disobeying the Speaker, and after an exchange with Greens co-leader James Shaw over the Panama Papers.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/303600/john-key-kicked-out-of-parliament

  25. Richardrawshark 25
    11 May 2016 at 3:15 pm

    Little’s letting loose on John Key, Angry Andy, was awesome!

  26. Richardrawshark 26
    11 May 2016 at 3:38 pm

    When you replay the session where he gets kicked out answering J Shaws questions you see that he actually says he used those examples of the charities to show anyones name could be on the database.

    Therefore to say that he cannot say it was the first time he heard of the 2013 scam that used charities as was in James Questions

    did he know about the scam in 2013? etc

    Because he says no I never heard that.

    Then how come you used it as an example yesterday?

    Keys nose grew another inch.

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