Open mike 12/04/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 12th, 2013 - 158 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

158 comments on “Open mike 12/04/2013 ”

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    • Colonial Viper 1.1
      12 April 2013 at 8:30 am

      Workers co-op…let the workers take over the plant when the corporates or the government abandon it.

      • BM 1.1.1
        12 April 2013 at 8:50 am

        In a worker co-op what happens if the co-op loses money?
        I’m guessing everyone have to stump up with extra coin to bail it out.

        Which is the probably the main reason you don’t see too many co-ops, lets face it the average person wants to go to work do his /her 8 hours and go home, they don’t want to worry about not being paid or losing their shirts if the co-op goes tits up.

        • muzza 1.1.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 8:56 am

          How about when the the banks lose money a la, Cyprus – Who got the hair-cut then genius!

          The quality of, *right* comments here has fallen dramatically, the thinking has become som sub par!

          BM, C73, for christs sake its low grade!

        • felix 1.1.1.2
          12 April 2013 at 10:29 am

          BM workers lose their shirts and don’t get paid when just about any enterprise goes tits-up. (Although National and Novopay are working on extending that to functioning enterprises too.)

          • BM 1.1.1.2.1
            12 April 2013 at 10:42 am

            Yes employees do lose a bit of coin, but they’re not liable for any debts that the company they work for owe.
            With a co-op they become owners and are liable for monies owed.
            Most people aren’t too enthusiastic about that and prefer to just be employees and there’s nothing wrong with that.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.2.1.1
              12 April 2013 at 11:07 am

              Yes employees do lose a bit of coin, but they’re not liable for any debts that the company they work for owe.

              So why is it that they’re the ones paying? It’s almost always the employees and sub-contractors that wear the loss when a business fails. We saw that when Mainzeal collapsed.

              Most people aren’t too enthusiastic about that and prefer to just be employees and there’s nothing wrong with that.

              I didn’t know you knew most people.

              The reports I’ve seen about those factories in South America that were taken over by the workers the workers were more than happy and felt that it had opened up their horizons. I suspect that the same would be true of the workers in NZ. The problem is, IMO, getting over the cultural concept that we need bosses. If we work together we don’t.

              • BM …
                12 April 2013 at 11:21 am

                Yes, the subbies get shafted but that’s the risk you take when you go into business.
                It’s a trade off, more money = more risk.
                The employees lose their wages that is all which may be a week or two + some holiday pay.

                I talked to many people about self employment most if not all are happy just doing a 40 hr week.
                This is especially true in a small business setup as the employees see first hand how much time and effort goes into keeping a small business running.

                • freedom …
                  12 April 2013 at 11:32 am

                  http://www.nceo.org/articles/employee-ownership-100
                  like these 100 ‘small’ employee owned businesses BM

                  better check the expiration date of your wingnut juice, you guys are becoming an embarrasment to your masters

                  • BM …
                    12 April 2013 at 11:40 am

                    Bud, I couldn’t give a shit if people want to get together and form a co-op, I wish them all the luck in the world.
                    A co-op is no different to any business that starts up, anyone who succeeds especially in the current economic climate deserves plenty of praise.

                    • McFlock …
                      12 April 2013 at 1:28 pm

                      Of course, the existence of a number of large cooperatives suggests a certain sample bias in the people you speak to, ” most if not all are happy just doing a 40 hr week”.

                      Besides, I thought the nacts were running an excellent, business-friendly economy that really helps the job producers in NZ. Can’t think where I got that impression from.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  12 April 2013 at 3:03 pm

                  Yes, the subbies get shafted but that’s the risk you take when you go into business.
                  It’s a trade off, more money = more risk.

                  The problem with that is that the subbies aren’t getting more money.

                  This is especially true in a small business setup as the employees see first hand how much time and effort goes into keeping a small business running.

                  And in a co-op they’d be able to share it around.

            • Te Reo Putake 1.1.1.2.1.2
              12 April 2013 at 2:41 pm

              “With a co-op they become owners and are liable for monies owed.”

              Not always, BM. It would depend on how the coop was set up, particularly the initial set up costs. Just like any other Ltd Co. in NZ, there would likely be bank overdrafts to tide of temporary dips in trade and should the business fail, then it would depend on the ownership structure, the securities and how personal the liabilities were before any shareholder would be liable.

              NZ has famously soft bankruptcy provisions, and an established business environment that allows the broke Acme Widgets to fold and then Acme Widgets 2013 Ltd. to rise from the ashes with the same ownership and management.

              So, what I’m saying is that a coop is subject to the same business laws and operating dynamics as any other kiwi business. And the same (limited) risks. The key question would be how much it costs to set it up. Buying an existing, but bankrupt, business is obviously way cheaper than starting from scratch, so individual workers may have very small exposure in the event of it failing. And if the ownership is vested in a trust, then it is the trust that would go broke, not the individual worker/owners.

            • North 1.1.1.2.1.3
              12 April 2013 at 5:59 pm

              BM @ 1.1.1.2.1: in your fervour to disseminate elitist neo-liberal rubbish you don’t even understand, you prove an appalling ignorance which disqualifies you from pushing even that shit-barrow.

              Your minimalisation – “Yes employees do lose a bit of coin……” followed by the contradistinction – “but they’re not liable for any of the debts that the company they work for owe.” – is ignorant bullshit !

              170 plus finance companies gone down the gurgler for billions of dollars in recent years. In the main their directors and shareholders walked away, as a matter of law owing not a skerrick of debt. Not because they were NOT co-operatively themed enterprises but because they were incorporated as limited liability companies. So your attempt at highlighting a “sufficient” quid pro quo is ignorant bullshit !

              There is NOTHING to stop a co-operatively themed enterprise meeting the legal requirements for incorporation as a limited liability company. In which case the “owners” of the “co-operative” walk away just like your wide-boys.

              What you’re really saying is that you don’t like the IDEA of co-operatively themed enterprises because that runs counter to the gospel according to Thatcher, Reagan, Key and ACT. And, in keeping with the neo-liberal “wisdom”, workers are essentially inferior and incapable. Well come right out and say it then and be judged for the lunacy of that assertion. Just don’t bullshit about the legal and commercial facts.

              I don’t know whether you’re a two-bob Tory or not. You sound like one. Certainly you are in the nature of a cheap snob, an ignorant and wrongheaded one at that.

              • BM …
                12 April 2013 at 6:35 pm

                I thought you were my friend 😐

              • felix …
                12 April 2013 at 7:04 pm

                BM is a fucking child.

                He’s deftly demonstrated that he knows next to fuck all about how most enterprises are structured, yet he thinks he can dictate the ownership structure, liability, and finance arrangements of a hypothetical enterprise he wants no part of.

                Well done BM, you’ve just proved that a co-op imagined by an idiot could well be a miserable failure.

                • BM …
                  12 April 2013 at 7:18 pm

                  Once again I couldn’t give a fuck if some people want to start a co-op.
                  Big fucking deal,.
                  The thing is, I’m not some ideologically driven wanker such as yourself where everything must follow a particular path,
                  if a co-op rocks your boat, go for it.
                  If you want to start and run your own business and employ people, whoo hoo more power to you.
                  If you’re happy to be a wage slave, good for you, whom am I to judge.

                  The one size fits all theoretical bull shit is what holds the left back.

                  • felix …
                    12 April 2013 at 7:28 pm

                    “The thing is, I’m not some ideologically driven wanker such as yourself where everything must follow a particular path”

                    lolz, according to your comments above anyone starting a co-op must follow a very particular path. And as it happens it’s a stupid, poorly conceived path which I imagine no-one would be particularly interested in following.

                    And that, my dim-witted little chum, is why why can’t see many examples of the type of stupid, poorly conceived strawman co-ops that you brilliantly imagined.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    12 April 2013 at 10:21 pm

                    The thing is, I’m not some ideologically driven wanker such as yourself where everything must follow a particular path,

                    Yes you are. You believe that everyone must submit to the capitalist paradigm, that the rich are the saviours and that everyone else is a loser. So as not to consider yourself a loser you model yourself upon the rich and thus becoming the biggest loser of all as you lose yourself.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      12 April 2013 at 10:36 pm

                      Isn’t it funny. The most ardent idealogues always believe that their view is the only rational, correct one, and that all other peoples are deluded.

      • red rattler 1.2.1
        12 April 2013 at 10:44 pm

        Co-ops are just a way of allowing workers to take over bankrupt businesses to keep their jobs.
        They still have to go to the banks for funds, play by all the rules, so in itself its not at all an alternative to capitalism.
        The co-ops in Argentina that came out of the 2001 Argentinazo were enabled by a law which allowed them to contest with the boss for ownership in lieu of unpaid wages. Where they won the workers ended up as legal shareholders, no different to a capitalist business except they decide collectively what they can pay in wages rather than a boss.
        Co-ops can play a progressive role if worker-owners come to see them as more than running a business and part of a wider strategy of socialisation that means taking over the whole economy.
        The co-ops in Argentina that joined forces and tried to set up a co-op trading system inside the capitalist economy were heading in the right direction. In the process they see the need to plan production on a large scale rather than be concerned only with their own success.
        But without state banks, and without socialisation of more strategic industries, which means a socialist government and socialist plan, co-ops will always remain a fringe activity unable to break out of the global capitalist economy.

        • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 10:48 pm

          A reason why Mondragon built and uses its own bank.

          A network of collective and and mutual organisations can work together to gain a degree of independence from the retail banks.

          Building societies and credit unions working hand in hand with manufacturing and service collectives.

  2. mickysavage 2
    12 April 2013 at 7:25 am

    Marie Schroff has suggested that anyone wondering if they are being spied on by the GCSB should ask if this is so.

    So I thought I would do so and have emailed on the following terms. Other Standardistas may wish to do the same.

    “info@gcsb.govt.nz

    Request for personal information

    Dear Ian

    I note the GCSB is alleged to have illegally spied on 88 New Zealanders over the past few years. The allegation is contained in the Kitteridge report which somehow was recently leaked to the media.

    I can’t imagine why but I wondered if I was one of the 88. So pursuant to the Official Information Act 1982 and/or the Privacy Act 1993 can you tell me if I am on that list and if so what information you obtained about me?

    My full name is #### and my date of birth is ####.

    Looking forward to your reply.

    Yours etc”

    • mickysavage 2.1
      12 April 2013 at 7:47 am

      And my email bounced back …

      According to the GCSB website the email is right.

      Maybe their email address is a secret one?

    • veutoviper 2.2
      12 April 2013 at 12:40 pm

      I have decided to do the same after hearing Keith Locke and others talking about this on Checkpoint last night. We all have the right to know whether we have been subject to the interest of the GCSB and/or the SIS, and if so, what they have – irrespective of whether or not we might be one of the 88.

      So my OIA/Privacy Act request will not refer to the latter – just be a general inquiry, probably in the form of a written letter by snail mail (registerd?) rather than letting them know my email …..

      The devil in me would like to see them inundated with such requests.

  3. The Al1en 3
    12 April 2013 at 8:01 am

    Surprise, Key goes non stick, and Labour, yet again, mess up another open goal chance. Two left feet, not likely.
    Gower trots out the spin, the public are becalmed, and the ‘main’ opposition still collect the wage packets despite being totally crap and ineffective.

    Good work, numb nuts.

    • JK 3.1
      12 April 2013 at 8:28 am

      Can you clarify please The Allen – what’s Labour done/said now ? I missed the news …..

      • The Al1en 3.1.1
        12 April 2013 at 8:40 am

        Gower on three news this morning spinning the nat company line and bringing Labour’s latest failure [The swing and a miss at the overseer] to the surface for all to see.
        Still, it’s not like voters don’t already know dead ducks, fish and toxic shit float.
        Better luck next time, Grant.

        [rob: your email address in last 2 comments is incorrect, I am fixing it for you, please check…]

        • The Al1en 3.1.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 8:47 am

          Sorry about and thanks for that mate, some arsehat gcsb hacker agent must have planted the extra letter in my email address when I wasn’t looking.
          A lesson for all to remain vigilant like Rob. 😆

    • tc 3.2
      12 April 2013 at 8:32 am

      Yes it just makes them all the more gung ho and they will go for broke now having got the bumbling DS and old guard entrenched till 2014.

      Watching DS/Curran/King/mallard etc and it’s job done, they look like the useless troughers the NACT are in terms of getting middle, lower NZ out of the intentional dive they’ve been put in.

  4. muzza 4
    12 April 2013 at 8:39 am

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/11/uk-cyprus-bailout-gold-idUKBRE93A0JS20130411

    Heavily indebted euro zone nations such as Italy and Portugal could come under pressure to put their bullion reserves to work as a result of plans for Cyprus to sell gold to meet its financing needs.

    NZ handed over its gold reserves to the IMF in 1961, and have been implementing the conditionalities policies , which came with the loans , ever since!

    This will be the continued M.O, to ensure that the real currency (no fiat), continues to find its way to the tip top of the pyramid!

    Now why would it be of such high priority/interest to get hold of the gold!

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1
      12 April 2013 at 11:35 am

      Now why would it be of such high priority/interest to get hold of the gold!

      Good question especially considering how useless gold is.

      • muzza 4.1.1
        12 April 2013 at 2:01 pm

        Are you suggesting that being forced to hand over gold reserves, should provide loss of *no value*?

        Seems to be of value when using to service a nations own fraudulant debt, consisting of paper, digital figures, etc.

        Someones think its of value B, thats really the important part of the discussion!

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 3:08 pm

          Are you suggesting that being forced to hand over gold reserves, should provide loss of *no value*?

          Yep, pretty much.

          • muzza 4.1.1.1.1
            13 April 2013 at 9:27 am

            Would you like to put come context around that last Draco?

            • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1.1.1
              13 April 2013 at 11:54 am

              Money is always fiat. I’ve explained this before and so those debts aren’t fraudulent except in how they came about (countries don’t need to borrow as they have the resources needed to maintain themselves). The big thing about debt is that the person or government in debt can always renege on it. That’s the risk of loaning money to people and/or governments.

              Now, consider the uselessness of gold. Most of it gets dug up, turned into bars and sealed in a vault somewhere.

              What I’m getting at here is that there’s a belief that gold is valuable when it actually isn’t. Same can be said of money really.

  5. muzza 5
    12 April 2013 at 8:42 am

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9988358/Cyprus-bailout-cost-surges-to-23bn.html

    Cyprus bailout cost surges to €23bn

    The financial crisis ravaging Cyprus deepened on Thursday after the cost of the country’s bail-out surged from €17.5bn to €23bn – larger than the size of the country’s economy.

    BOOM – Just like that, 34% increase in the cost of the *bailout*!

    Next Stop….

  6. aerobubble 6
    12 April 2013 at 9:35 am

    Yippy! No need for Austerity in the UK!
    Turns out Thatcher squirreled away billions
    by not giving it to Europe!!!

    Propaganda swept away criticism of Thatcher,
    that even after her death she still has them working
    to twisted logic to make her look good.

    They could not find anything to justify their
    adoration of her, but then they remembered
    she saved all that money from being paid
    to the Eu, despite ignoring the horrendous
    Austerity program they are rolling out due to
    her market economic ideology failing so
    spectacularly. Tories still delusional dills.

    In NZ the Pike River Mine families find out
    that deregulation of their industry by
    parliamentarians led to their loved ones death.

    Lucky that hey, that the only people in the
    system who can’t be held to account, MPs,
    who did away with a upper chamber to cut corners,
    who did away with regulations of mines, to the
    chorus of the-market-will-provide, are not now
    accountable.

    Its was a massive herding by media to stop, distort,
    dismiss, criticism of favored politicians. Politicians
    who thought it would never catch up to them.

      • aerobubble 6.1.1
        12 April 2013 at 1:09 pm

        When asked about Thatchers legacy, a british MP said that she saved Britian billions by standing up to the EU over the budget refund. I took offense to this considering the wasteland caused by
        Austerity, how is the great gamble that has left Britain in such fiscal crisis placated by this one off temporary victory that failed to save UK from ravages of the GFC.

        • muzza 6.1.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 2:06 pm

          LOL, the would have been refering to the UK, EU rebate!

          Needless to say its like paying your yearly tax bill, then receiving a fraction of it back as * a return*. and believing that you’re up on the deal!

          • aerobubble 6.1.1.1.1
            13 April 2013 at 12:03 pm

            Its rich, that Conservatives are beating themselves up to find a good reason to justify their adoration for Thatcher by citing how she got them a rebate, have they seen the effects of debt, of austerity, of polarization, she has left in her wake.

    • North 6.2
      12 April 2013 at 6:30 pm

      Hey…….Bunter Brownlee’s going to London for the the Vile Old Bag’s send off.

      Be a bugger if he’s flying Samoa Air which apparently wants to levy a significant surcharge for obesity.

      Apologies for my churlishness but I still well remember ’72 when all the brainiac Tories could say about Norm Kirk was this – “Well, if he can’t control his own weight how can he control a country ?

      No apologies re the Vile Old Bag. Pensioners died from the cold while she hosted Pinochet. And lauded the “reasonable” people in the Khmer Rouge. And declaimed Nelson Mandela as a terrorist.

      • Morrissey 6.2.1
        12 April 2013 at 7:42 pm

        And praised the Taliban as freedom-fighters. And supported Saddam Hussein. And turned her hateful gimlet eye on the Irish hunger-strikers, and let them die.

  7. johnm 7
    12 April 2013 at 9:49 am

    More Austerity class war dispatches from the Artist Taxi drive from the U$K

    Who are the True Blues?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GueMzVfhvc&list=UUGThM-ZZBba1Zl9rU-XeR-A&index=2

    **G8 Special** BBC Sucks O Cocks News
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcmkrShK-GM&list=UUGThM-ZZBba1Zl9rU-XeR-A&index=1

    “This bloody government are laughing at the poor. Remember when they were told that cuts must be made to welfare…..all the bloody Tories CHEERED like the evil pigs that they are. This myth of a so called recession is just a cover to take everything away from the poor and disabled and give it to the filthy rich!!! Keep telling it like it is Mark!”
    “Oh my god. I have just heard a load of fucking celebrities are going thatchers funeral. It is a fucking pr stunt. They are glorifying this bitch and her policies so they can bring more of them in. What the fuck has Jeremy Clarkson got to do with it? The bbc is true blue for sure. 7 hours of necrophilia in parliament and now this. This is just fucking weird. Are one direction going to perform karma chameleon at the funeral?”
    “Keep it going Mark!! This drooling over Thatcher has made me physically sick. And the BBC calls those of us who are not shedding a tear anarchists?! Try telling that to my Dad…one of thousands of Thames Lightermen who lost their jobs in the 1980s because of her. He won’t even talk about it to this day. Honest working people who never claimed a days benefit ripped apart. And we’re seeing it all over again. I will never forgive Thatcher.”
    “Well said mark it’s an all out attack on the vulnerable while gov blood sucking parasites claim thousands in tax payers money. Its about greed. Smoke and mirrors media whoring about scroungers. I’m too disabled at 58 to work I’m raging angry too. I’ve no heat with chronic body spasms and chronic asthma triggered by cold to pay this bedroom tax. It’s either no heat little food or evicted from my home.Six worn discs, chronic pain, and housebound. Atos!!! says I’m fit to work!!!! Utter disgrace!!!We need to redo this gov”

    • ianmac 8.1
      12 April 2013 at 11:06 am

      Give that frigate a $100,000 fine and a prison sentence. How dare they protest!

    • Murray Olsen 8.2
      12 April 2013 at 2:10 pm

      We’ve fallen a long, long way. Shearer would probably want to pay Blackwater’s Ocean Division to send a ship, given his love of mercenaries. And seeing that the testing has stopped, the protest would probably be for the French to start up again.
      It felt good to be a Kiwi when Big Norm sent that ship. Since then, it’s mostly just felt embarrassing. Even Lange’s witty slapping down of a frat boy from Jerry Falwell College was just a diversion from what Douglas was doing.
      Now we have a Labour Party that believes in what? That we’re lucky to have them in opposition because they hold the government to account? Great, that seems to be their plan for the foreseeable future.

  9. chris73 9
    12 April 2013 at 11:20 am

    So I’ve got a decision to make, in my new job I (I left my old one a month ago because I hated it) I have the opportunity to join the PSA

    On the one hand I think unions are out for themselves at the expense of others but on the other hand I do like to get more than others for doing the same job…decisions, decisions

    • The Al1en 9.1
      12 April 2013 at 11:24 am

      “in my new job I (I left my old one a month ago because I hated it)”

      90 day sack law you voted for come back and bite you on the arse did it?

      • chris73 9.1.1
        12 April 2013 at 11:44 am

        I left my old job (had been there 4 years) because I hated it and have found a new job doing what I actually like

        • The Al1en 9.1.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 11:51 am

          Yeah, you would say that. 😆

          • chris73 9.1.1.1.1
            12 April 2013 at 12:00 pm

            I agree with the 90 day law, I think its a good thing and working well (I notice Labour or the Greens don’t talk about it much anymore)

            But thats what you do if you’re in a job you don’t like, you leave when you can and find a better job…don’t know why I didn’t do it sooner

            • The Al1en 9.1.1.1.1.1
              12 April 2013 at 3:49 pm

              “But thats what you do if you’re in a job you don’t like, you leave when you can and find a better job…don’t know why I didn’t do it sooner”

              Should have just exploited the fact most bosses are shit and take liberties with employment contracts and work place relations.
              Two for two at the era, so far, and it would have been a threepeat had I not settled for a new pair of boots and an apology, saving the jobs of one, maybe two staff who would have been let go to afford the expected payout.
              Social conscience cost me more than a few grand, but ninety day sack laws are tools of the weak.

              • chris73 …
                12 April 2013 at 4:03 pm

                “Should have just exploited the fact most bosses are shit and take liberties with employment contracts and work place relations.”

                – There was nothing wrong with the job, I just didn’t like it so why would I have anything to do with that when I was the one with the problem?

                • The Al1en …
                  12 April 2013 at 4:26 pm

                  “There was nothing wrong with the job, I just didn’t like it so why would I have anything to do with that when I was the one with the problem?”

                  No other reason than to say bosses are shit and I’m a lot better than at least three of them are 🙂

            • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1.1.2
              12 April 2013 at 7:30 pm

              Key’s broken promise on raising wages
              Has a lovely graph on it showing the precise amount of difference that the 90 day fire at will bill made on unemployment.

        • fender 9.1.1.2
          12 April 2013 at 11:57 am

          ‘ ….found a new job doing what I actually like’

          Good luck finding someone to pay you for jerking off.

        • North 9.1.1.3
          12 April 2013 at 8:18 pm

          Chris73 you better keep your trolling mouth shut at the new job that you like because you open it and they’re gonna think you’re an arsehole and a wanker and a wannabe Key Cargo Cultist.

    • freedom 9.2
      12 April 2013 at 11:26 am

      “I think unions are out for themselves at the expense of others but on the other hand I do like to get more than others for doing the same job”

      you do realise what you just said right?

      if more people joined the union, more people would have more

      love your work man, 😎

      • chris73 9.2.1
        12 April 2013 at 11:48 am

        I didn’t explain myself as well as I could have (the perils of concentrating on marvel avengers alliance)

        Basically I know I might get more benefits for myself by joining the psa however the more I get has to come from somewhere plus it’d make me a hypocrite if i did join…

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 9.2.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 11:51 am

          “has to come from somewhere”

          Yep – it would come from the power that association brings, and it would boost profits for the owners too – cf: Australia, Germany etc.

          • chris73 9.2.1.1.1
            12 April 2013 at 12:06 pm

            Except in this its a government job so the extra benefits would I guess be paid for by tax payers

            • Blue 9.2.1.1.1.1
              12 April 2013 at 12:45 pm

              If you’ve taken a public service job you’re already a hypocrite.

              • chris73 …
                12 April 2013 at 12:51 pm

                Not really, just the job I’m doing falls under the banner.

                • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                  12 April 2013 at 6:48 pm

                  …not to mention your bludging off the taxpayer in the army. What? You think one public service job is somehow different from another?

        • freedom 9.2.1.2
          12 April 2013 at 11:54 am

          or you could acknowledge the subconscious event and accept you might have grown a little 🙂

          Maybe you realised, deep down inside, that a little less profit to create a bit more pay
          is a lot better for everybody

          • chris73 9.2.1.2.1
            12 April 2013 at 12:04 pm

            I agree withe unions in theory, what i dont like are unions like the teachers union who are more concerned with protecting their members as opposed to helping (and in some cases) protecting students

            • Murray Olsen 9.2.1.2.1.1
              12 April 2013 at 2:20 pm

              You must really hate the Police Association, who are more concerned with protecting their members as opposed to campaigning for and protecting the accused. Or is that not a union, and therefore allowed to act on behalf of its members?
              What on earth do you think unions are for? Have you ever stopped to think that they may have some other purpose than giving Slater a hardon every time he types out “union scum”?
              You probably think consumer associations should protect the rights of employers, as should employer associations.
              On another note: which organisations do the most to attack and fail to protect young people, the Teachers’ Unions or your beloved Tory government?

              • chris73 …
                12 April 2013 at 2:45 pm

                You must really hate the Police Association, who are more concerned with protecting their members as opposed to campaigning for and protecting the accused.

                – They also have gone too far in terms of putting their own interests first, it is a tough one though because some of their concerns are actually about life and death situations

                – But like anything unions (and we’ll go with unions in NZ) started out with great intentions and did some excellent work but as the saying goes a little bit of power…I’m sure we all remember the strikes in the 70s-80s,especially the interislander (for me the very late 70s)

                • North …
                  12 April 2013 at 8:30 pm

                  Chris73 do you realise what an arch-idiot you are saying what you said about teachers and their union(s) ? Teachers don’t care about the kids ???? Fuck off ! You’re no better than that flatulent lump from Waitakere with all her facile bullshit.

                  And if I ever saw a ridiculous non-sequitur you provide it in your comment about Police Association not protecting and campaigning on behalf of the accused.

                  How can a punkarsed neo-liberal like you presume to speak pejoratively about tenuously identified “self-interest” in others ?

                • felix …
                  12 April 2013 at 9:25 pm

                  “but as the saying goes a little bit of power…”

                  In case you’ve genuinely forgotten the rest of that sentence, allow me:

                  A little bit of power and nek minit workplace safety, meal breaks, holidays, penal rates, a wage that supports a family, job security, allowances for costs, right to collective bargaining, legal representation.

                  You’re welcome.

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead 9.2.1.2.1.2
              12 April 2013 at 7:56 pm

              Why do you always talk such shit, Chris73?

              Regarding your hatred of teachers, put up or shut up, asshole.

        • Tigger 9.2.1.3
          12 April 2013 at 12:07 pm

          Describing your penis as ‘Marvel Avengers Alliance’ is not only sad, I suspect it’s breaching Disney’s copyright.

          • chris73 9.2.1.3.1
            12 April 2013 at 12:16 pm

            Hulk smash!

            • McFlock 9.2.1.3.1.1
              12 April 2013 at 1:37 pm

              Um – if your knob has swelled massively and (more importantly) turned green, I suggest you examine whether PSA membership includes any health benefits.

              • chris73 …
                12 April 2013 at 2:34 pm

                To paraphrase Don Brash:

                “I don’t think the moderators want any posters to be talking about my gentlemens sausage to be quite frank”

    • RedBaronCv 9.3
      12 April 2013 at 7:27 pm

      Careful now Chris – you need to get past the 90 days – before you haven’t wasted your money on union fees

  10. Professor Longhair 10
    12 April 2013 at 11:21 am

    Just another day in the Occupation
    Israeli troops shoot Palestinian photographer in the face

    He was recording their invasion of a refugee camp in Aida.

    Next time some halfwit tries to tell you that Israel is a democratic country, say: “Then explain this, Dr. Bassett”….

    http://972mag.com/photos-palestinian-photographer-shot-in-the-face-by-israeli-troops/68897/

    • Murray Olsen 10.1
      12 April 2013 at 2:25 pm

      I don’t see how that makes Israel a non democratic country, Prof. A country run by a brutal state that doesn’t give a shit about minority rights, international law, or human decency, sure. I just don’t see what it is about democracy that makes those things impossible.

  11. Sam 11
    12 April 2013 at 11:33 am

    Great to see David Cunliffe raising the questions that need answering about taxes and multinationals in the NZH today. About time we saw some good thought leadership happening from our politicians.

    This is the kind of vision stuff the country is craving. Ties in the economic and social arguments and gets people thinking.

    Why on earth aren’t they using Cunliffe more? Given every time he speaks/ writes at the moment, he effectively exposes the Government’s flaws. Good stuff. We want more!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10877012.

    • Murray Olsen 11.1
      12 April 2013 at 2:27 pm

      I suspect they would rather lose the next election and hold onto their jobs and salaries rather than actual challenge neoliberal orthodoxy, even to the extent that Cunliffe does. They won’t use him because their beliefs are closer to Key’s than they are to his.

    • RedBaronCv 11.2
      12 April 2013 at 7:00 pm

      And by the look of the comments the punters agree. Way to go David.

  12. Rogue Trooper 12
    12 April 2013 at 12:13 pm

    3: “hospital meals, may be a week old after preparation before consumption.”
    South Korea : Watch-con too.
    “Noahs Ark” project-the tiger, the lion and the grizzly bear; “and the lambs shall lay with…”
    Reinsurance flows will increase the $ / TWI

    mango or Shelly, shark-infested swamps?

    CL: Cadmium;” Heavy metals are part of our economy (super=phosphate)
    oh, kidney failure? wait…breast cancer, testicular cancer
    residues 5 x in dairying / agricultural fields
    highest levels in their systems-vegetarians, unfortunately, and wheat consumers.
    good evidence kiwis exceed safe limits of ingestion most nights (potatoes)
    un-marketable offal? goes into blood and bone

    (turnips” will suck it up privately, turnips)
    sooo, now land values and food security are questionable; an Energizer bunny indeed.

    threat of Zespri staff being arrested in the home of the goose-berry; Key- “it’s an important market, we need to grow that.” PSA? Hello, cat got your memory? or is just an ornament to the side of the stocking. (don’t forget the bed of fire-clay in the coal mine then).

    thank goodness we can relax ourselves with the 50th anniversary of the good Dr (on Prime)
    -“run you clever boy, and remember”
    (Celia Imrie, whoar) pointless being a monk and fez are not fetching for every one.
    “hoovering up data and hoovering up people”.

    see, 101 places to be; 🙂

    Morning Report-” 3 more years of house prices rising steply in Ak, Well. and ChCh; Forbidden cities indeed.

    proverb you won’t read on kiwiblog:
    4.20 expiration am, gears loose wearing, mystery won’t see them again. Dingle (Keyser alarm saze) the exhaust pyrometer is climbing into the red.

    • Lanthanide 13.2
      12 April 2013 at 1:07 pm

      Talk about paranoid:

      A couple of very low flying UPS 767s that have me questioning whether or not all planes that are painted to APPEAR to be a regular commercial traffic; if not, then who is running this utterly massive global operation?

      Who is the boss? Who can compromise every single Federal agency that might be capable of figuring it out?

      http://weatherwars.info/

      It’s actually a nice role that wikileaks offered, really. You can say to all these conspiracy nuts: “if this really is such a massive coverup, how come no one has leaked it to wikileaks yet?”.

    • muzza 13.4
      12 April 2013 at 2:13 pm

      Why are you reading it then posting it here PB?

      Make you feel safe/confident in yourself that you know whats going on by doing so?
      Then seeking affirmation from the site herd, that you’re *in the know* about this….

      You got Joe90, and Lanth – SCORE!

      Joe -Still waiting for your reponse about SFO, as it related to that picture you posted the many days ago now!

      • Pascal's bookie 13.4.1
        12 April 2013 at 2:28 pm

        “Why are you reading it then posting it here PB?”

        Because it’s fucking funny muzza.

        • McFlock 13.4.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 2:38 pm

          lol

        • muzza 13.4.1.2
          12 April 2013 at 2:43 pm

          Why would a subject with high likelihood of serious negative consequences, which are going to impossible to measure/forecast the fallout of, be so funny to you!

          Best hope its not happening eh bro, if you want to keep that attitude up!

          • McFlock 13.4.1.2.1
            12 April 2013 at 3:04 pm

            Approaching the point, Muzz.

            [sigh]
            You are assuming a highly complex explanation based on scant evidence. You then interpret all subsequent data so that it fits your hypothesis. To the point of absurdity and, yes, humour.

            And for my part I’m assuming that your confirmation bias is the result of stupidity, and not part of some elaborate social “experiment” you are conducting without documentation, peer review, ethics committee authorisation or participant consent.

            How is Project Onan going, by the way?

            • muzza 13.4.1.2.1.1
              12 April 2013 at 3:46 pm

              As I said to P’s B, best hope its not actually happening then eh, McFlock!

              And perhaps keep the stupidity for the perception bias you’ve formed about my online handle here, I’ll leave perception bias to the un-evolved, and wait for them to catch up, which will be a wee way of for most, if ever!

              Scant evidence – McFlock, its only the threat to the egos of the *self styled*, who want to believe this, as it’s an affront to all they believe to *know*, about the world, and the self esteem is not prepared to accept that sort of abuse, as yet!

              P’s B (below comment) – Monkton, has only ever been an attempt to distract, which many have brought into. He represents various interests and plays the role, somewhat effectively, although it looks like he has a whole new set of issues to deal with, and I would expect him to disappear from the stage pretty quickly, or change tact.

              • McFlock …
                12 April 2013 at 4:37 pm

                Best hope that the zombies don’t attack you tonight, eh!

                Given that now you’re blaming your handle for perceptions about your beliefs regarding contrails, are we to infer that your contrail obsession is actually a contrivance constructed as part of your social “experiments” here, muzz?

                But we do agree that monckton is an intentional distraction. I think he’s a shill for the dying fossil fuels industry. You think he’s a cover-up for what: contrail-engineered global warming? Cui bono – who benefits?

                • muzza …
                  13 April 2013 at 9:55 am

                  Zombies – What are you on about McFlock, watching too many movies, or getting stuck into the *bath salts* perhaps.

                  The experiments are going on at your expense, along with everyone else’s, including my own!

                  All I ‘m doing is commenting on the experiments, which are not yet mainstream, and watching people live completely unaware of what is going on around them. Even those who somewhat are aware, still have constraints which are allowing the experiments you refer, to continue, and its all an experiment, which should have the science types super excited, so be part of it!

                  As always, it will be a time lag before people, including those who ridicule (out of fear mostly), begin to accept whats going on above them, and go through the intermal critique which is necessary, before humanity can move forward meaningfully.

                  Better hope you’re right McFlock, have an honest self evaluation of how confident you are in your position, then ask whose position has a larger probable downside, yours or mine!

                  I’m wrong, (great, ill be happy to be so), no damage to people or the environment. etc.

                  You, and those sharing your position wrong, and the consequence, could be all the way down to the bottom, for everyone/everything!

                  • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                    13 April 2013 at 10:03 am

                    I’m happy that you’re wrong too.

                    • muzza …
                      13 April 2013 at 10:52 am

                      Needless to say, you’re one of those who could do with some inward reflection!

                      The underwhelming lack of confidence in your words, exposes your *truth*, as always!

                      Consider them the twin, of the insults you throw about!

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                      13 April 2013 at 10:55 am

                      Attacking me at your weak spots makes them no less yours, you tiresome cretin.

                  • McFlock …
                    13 April 2013 at 1:18 pm

                    Did you see a chemtrail as the point flew over your head?

                    Muzz, if you’re wrong then nutbars like you have been used to discredit folk with genuine environmental or political concerns for the last forty years. If your think that that is zero-harm behaviour then you’re a bigger idiot than you pretend.

          • Pascal's bookie 13.4.1.2.2
            12 April 2013 at 3:10 pm

            Don’t get me wrong Muzza.

            Nothing would please me more than that everywhere Monckton went he was confronted by people with oversized hi-res printouts of chemtrails demanding to know why he was covering up the real scandal.

    • Murray Olsen 13.5
      12 April 2013 at 2:36 pm

      Soon there’ll only be one true sovereign person/freeman/knower of the truth on the whole planet. All else will be controlled opposition.

  14. MrSmith 14
    12 April 2013 at 12:54 pm

    You got to love the way the Jap’s and Yank’s are printing money hand over fist then banking some of it here, all because of our high interest rates, inflation and rising dollar which will keep rising because of demand and shortage, so a win win for the money traders, all the while Billygoat English and the Reserve bank sit by doing nothing.

    We need to start Printing Money now before it’s to late, if English and The Reserve bank thinks they can just sit around while 2 of the worlds largest economies print trillions of dollars then I would suggest they are as corrupt as Key or stupid or both.

  15. veutoviper 15
    12 April 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Another twist to the ongoing GCSB saga etc which really doesn’t fit under any of the other posts to date, referred to in a comment on Russell Brown’s Key Questions post on Public Address.

    The Dept of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) have recently put up a RFP tender (38883) on the http://www.gets.govt.nz site for a “Security Sector Professional Development Programme”.

    I have not looked at the detail of the RFP as you need to register on the site to do so, but apparently it is looking for

    ” an innovative supplier to provide a professional development programme for executives and senior officials within the security sector. The focus of the programme is to equip officials with the knowledge and skills required to deal with the myriad of security challenges that threaten New Zealand’s wellbeing and prosperity.”

    The fact that it is a DPMC-initiated tender for a programme across the ‘security sector’ is in line with the changes and structure of the sector outlined in Chris Trotter’s revealing post on The Daily Blog

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/04/11/breaking-worse-than-we-thought-rebecca-kitteridge-and-the-new-community-of-spooks/

    I recommend this post as a ‘must read’ as it is a good piece of investigative journalism giving an insight into what has been going on behind the scenes – almost up to Karol’s high standard!

    I had almost given up on Trotter over the last year or so, but this post, and one or two of his other posts over the last month or so, have started to restore him in my eyes.

  16. ianmac 16
    12 April 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Under “Feeds” in the side panel (about 15 down at the moment) is “Citizen with Keith Locke & Selwyn ManningThe Jackal | 2013-04-11”
    It is yet another daunting set of opinions re the GSB. Keith Locke was there during the 2003 Act passage and is adamant that the NZ citizens were definitely exempt from spying in spite of the Key spin that the Act is ambiguous. Keith reckons that the first thing in a Court of Law would be to look at the intent of the Act and it would be impossible to argue ambiguity. The Government would hate to see it before the Court! A great session but not sure how to link directly.

  17. Rogue Trooper 17
    12 April 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Exhausted:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDStHQLSQWQ – pieces of 8
    “got a friend in End casino and it’s getting close to Harvest time
    she was kinda cute if a little pass her Prime”

    tired now. have an Excellent weekend.a DVD and Scrabble for the Rogue : carry on, as you were, at ease.
    now
    ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZyVZFJGX5g )
    *much?

    -my name it is Sam Hall, may the Good Lord bless you all. 😉

  18. ghostrider888 18
    12 April 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Parallel Lines
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZZXOTRU75Q
    for Christina
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkbaRJuZ3A8

    -“Momma always said I’d go like this if I didn’t change my ways…stretched between a dead cyborg motorbike and a really better cyborg motorbike impaled on the tip of a bullet train in the japanese badlands.”
    The Ghost Rider.

  19. gobsmacked 19
    12 April 2013 at 3:08 pm

    David Shearer was interviewed and took calls on Radio Live (1pm to 2.15).

    It’ll be on the Radio Live website if you want to hear it, but don’t bother, I did it so you don’t have to.

    Summary – he likes Winston Peters, he thought Tamihere was going to be first Maori PM, he agrees with Prince Charles about housing, his bank account same old same old, and he sang along with Sinatra and Tamihere (mercifully brief). Nothing terrible, nothing memorable, nothing very political, and nobody listened.

    He is stuttering less than before, so he is still saying nothing much, but he’s saying nothing less badly.

    • karol 19.1
      12 April 2013 at 3:13 pm

      Oh. Is Shearer still here? I thought he must have abdicated or summat.

      • gobsmacked 19.1.1
        12 April 2013 at 3:30 pm

        Maybe he has.

        Compare and contrast …

        https://twitter.com/DavidShearerMP

        https://twitter.com/grantrobertson1

        One has said nothing for a week. The other is leading the Labour party.

        • Rhinocrates 19.1.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 9:07 pm

          It would be head/desk if my head had metaphorically ever left my desk in order to pound against it again. Mumblefuck’s beyond hope and finally even his own caucus knows it, but doesn’t know what to do with him while Mallard makes Zaphod Beeblebrox look modest and prudent and Robertson persists in thinking that elections are vending machines into which you keep inserting press releases until government falls out.

          They’re so desperate not to lose control of the party, they can’t win for the people they claim to represent.

  20. Jokerman 20
    12 April 2013 at 3:13 pm

    gotta Fly
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092618/
    weeds are Pilling up. thanks Lyn n

  21. Pascal's bookie 21
    12 April 2013 at 3:35 pm

    Ken Orr, the “Right to life” guy, ‘deplores’ the recent attack on a nurses car, but can’t see why anyone would value the victim:

    http://righttolife.org.nz/2013/04/12/vandalism-of-abortion-nurses-car-deplored/

    That’s because he’s a fuckwit, for those keeping score at home.

  22. rosy 22
    12 April 2013 at 6:45 pm

    On the fightback in Spain

    Suing banks over evictions – and winning.

    Because he put up a fight, the European Court of Justice ruled against the Spanish eviction law. Other judges can now refer to that ruling and pre-empt or suspend other evictions.

    And in Andalusia

    The Andalusian regional government, a coalition between the Socialist Workers Party and the United Left, is taking control of properties belonging to banks for a period of three years if families living there are “at risk of exclusion” and threatened with eviction.

    The decision, which will come into force on April 11, has come at a time when the new mortgage law is under discussion in the national parliament. The legislation imposes fines on banks that own unoccupied housing, which they refuse to rent out.

    The fightback gained momentum a few months ago when locksmiths and police put their jobs on the line by refusing to help with evictions

    The Union of Security Locksmiths, an industry association that represents roughly 40% of Spain’s locksmiths, recently said its members won’t do any more evictions involving “extreme” situations—such as pregnant or infirm adults or families with young children—because the emotional strain of throwing people out on the street is too much for locksmiths to handle.

    In a parallel move, the Joint Union of Police recently said it would offer legal support to officers in the ranks who don’t want to participate in evictions.

    …
    The problem took on another dimension over the past couple months as participants in evictions said several homeowners committed suicide just before they were to be put out of their homes. In the ensuing political uproar, mayors of several towns threatened to withdraw municipal funds deposited at banks that were carrying out evictions

  23. Penny Bright 23
    12 April 2013 at 6:52 pm

    (Apologise for the length of this post – but some may find it useful? )

    ‘Open Letter’ / formal request to the CEO of the Finance Markets Authority (FMA) to conduct an investigation into the Mighty River Power prospectus.

    12 April 2013

    Sean Hughes
    Finance Markets Authority CEO

    Dear Sean,

    Please be reminded of your statutory duties arising from the Finance Markets Authority Act 2011:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2011/0005/latest/DLM3231068.html

    9FMA’s functions

    (1)The FMA’s functions are as follows:

    (a)to promote the confident and informed participation of businesses, investors, and consumers in the financial markets, including (without limitation) by—

    (i)collecting and disseminating information or research about any matter relating to those markets:

    (ii)issuing warnings, reports, or guidelines, or making comments, about any matter relating to those markets, financial markets participants, or other persons engaged in conduct relating to those markets (including in relation to 1 or more
    particular persons):

    (iii)providing information about its functions, powers, and duties under this Act and other enactments (including promoting awareness by investors that all investments involve risks and that it is not the role of the FMA to remove those risks):

    (iv)providing, or facilitating the provision of, public information and education about any matter relating to those markets:

    (b)to perform and exercise the functions, powers, and duties conferred or imposed on it by or under the financial markets legislation and any other enactments:

    (c)to monitor compliance with, investigate conduct that constitutes or may constitute a contravention of, and enforce—

    (i)the Acts referred to in Part 1 of Schedule 1 (and the enactments made under those Acts); and

    (ii)the Acts referred to in Part 2 of Schedule 1 (and the enactments made under those Acts) to the extent that those Acts or other enactments apply, or otherwise relate, to financial markets participants:

    (d)to monitor, and conduct inquiries and investigations into any matter relating to, financial markets or the activities of financial markets participants or of other persons engaged in conduct relating to those markets:

    (e)to keep under review the law and practices relating to financial markets, financial markets participants, and other persons engaged in conduct relating to those markets:

    (f)to co-operate with—

    (i)any other law enforcement or regulatory agency (including under section 30):
    (ii)overseas regulators (including under section 30 or 31).

    (2)Subsection (1)(b) and (c) do not limit the functions, powers, and duties conferred or imposed on any other person in respect of financial markets legislation.

    (3)The fact that some other person has functions, powers, and duties in respect of financial markets legislation does not limit or restrict the FMA’s functions, powers, and duties in respect of that legislation.

    (4)Except as expressly provided otherwise in this or any other Act, the FMA must act independently in performing its statutory functions and duties, and exercising its statutory powers, under—

    (a)this Act; and
    (b)any other Act that expressly provides for the functions, powers, or duties of the FMA (other than the Crown Entities Act 2004).
    Compare: 1978 No 103 s 10

    _______________________________________________

    Schedule 1
    Financial markets legislation
    s 4
    Part 1
    Auditor Regulation Act 2011
    Financial Advisers Act 2008
    Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act 2008
    Parts 4 and 5 and Schedules 1 and 2 of the KiwiSaver Act 2006
    Sections 45U and 45V of the Public Finance Act 1989
    Securities Act 1978
    Securities Markets Act 1988
    Securities Transfer Act 1991
    Securities Trustees and Statutory Supervisors Act 2011
    Superannuation Schemes Act 1989
    Unit Trusts Act 1960
    Schedule 1 Part 1: amended, on 1 July 2012, by section 82 of the Auditor Regulation Act 2011 (2011 No 21).
    Schedule 1 Part 1: amended, on 30 June 2012, by section 11 of the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Act 2012 (2012 No 45).
    Schedule 1 Part 1: amended, on 1 October 2011, by section 60(2) of the Securities Trustees and Statutory Supervisors Act 2011 (2011 No 10).

    Part 2
    Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009
    Building Societies Act 1965
    Companies Act 1993
    Co-operative Companies Act 1996
    Corporations (Investigation and Management) Act 1989
    Sections 220, 228, 229, 240, 242, and 256 to 260 of the Crimes Act 1961
    Financial Reporting Act 1993
    Friendly Societies and Credit Unions Act 1982
    Industrial and Provident Societies Act 1908
    Limited Partnerships Act 2008
    Part 5C of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act 1989
    Trustee Companies Act 1967

    _________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1988/0234/latest/DLM140405.html

    8A Who is information insider

    (1) A person is an information insider of a public issuer if that person—
    (a) has material information relating to the public issuer that is not generally available to the market; and

    (b) knows or ought reasonably to know that the information is material information; and

    (c) knows or ought reasonably to know that the information is not generally available to the market.

    (2)A public issuer may be an information insider of itself.
    Section 8A: inserted, on 29 February 2008, by section 5 of the Securities Markets Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 47).

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1988/0234/latest/DLM140407.html

    8BMeaning of inside information

    In this subpart, inside information means the information in respect of which a person is an information insider of the public issuer in question.
    Section 8B: inserted, on 29 February 2008, by section 5 of the Securities Markets Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 47).

    8C Information insider must not trade

    An information insider of a public issuer must not trade securities of the public issuer.
    Section 8C: inserted, on 29 February 2008, by section 5 of the Securities Markets Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 47).

    8D Information insider must not disclose inside information

    An information insider (A) of a public issuer must not directly or indirectly disclose inside information to another person (B) if A knows or ought reasonably to know or believes that B will, or is likely to,—

    (a )trade securities of the public issuer; or
    (b) if B is already a holder of those securities, continue to hold them; or
    (c) advise or encourage another person (C) to trade or hold them.

    Section 8D: inserted, on 29 February 2008, by section 5 of the Securities Markets Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 47).

    8E Information insider must not advise or encourage trading
    An information insider (A) of a public issuer must not—

    (a) advise or encourage another person (B) to trade or hold securities of the public issuer:
    (b) advise or encourage B to advise or encourage another person (C) to trade or hold those securities.
    Section 8E: inserted, on 29 February 2008, by section 5 of the Securities Markets Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 47).

    8F Criminal liability for insider conduct

    A person who contravenes any of sections 8C to 8E commits an offence (see section 43 for the maximum penalty of 5 years’ imprisonment and a $300,000 fine for an individual or a $1,000,000 fine for a body corporate) if the person has actual knowledge—

    (a) that the information is material information; and
    (b) that the information is not generally available to the market; and
    (c) in the case of a contravention of section 8D, of any of the matters set out in section 8D(a) to (c).
    Section 8F: inserted, on 29 February 2008, by section 5 of the Securities Markets Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 47).
    ________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8465532/Call-to-ban-ministers-from-share-float

    Three-quarters of Sunday Star-Times readers believe we should follow Australia and prohibit cabinet ministers from buying shares in state-owned companies they decide to sell.

    The pre-registration for the Mighty River Power share float closed on Friday with more than 440,000 signed up, but the sale of state assets remains divisive.

    We asked our readers if they wanted a similar rule to Australia’s “Standards of Ministerial Ethics” that require ministers “to divest themselves of all shareholdings other than through investment vehicles such as broadly diversified superannuation funds or publicly listed managed or trust arrangements”.

    It’s a rule that would prohibit buying into a state-owned asset float while in power and 75 per cent of the 788 people polled were in favour of it.

    Cabinet ministers have agreed to a voluntary “moratorium” preventing the purchase of shares by all ministers, and some of their staff, until 90 days after the initial sale.

    Finance Minister Bill English’s office said: “Cabinet also agreed that ministers and the staff in those offices . . . should use their best endeavours to ensure that their partners and dependent children adhere to the same moratorium.”

    But our readers say that is not long enough and want a more permanent solution.

    As one pro-asset sales reader said, a ban on share purchases would “prove they don’t have a vested interest or conflict of interest”.

    Another said: “It would help to keep our politicians openly accountable to public scrutiny. As corruption and lobbying increases in countries around the world this is just another small way we can try and stay relatively ‘clean’ for longer and assists in enhancing our international reputation as an honest country to deal with.”

    But a conflict of interest in an asset sale would, many felt, last longer than 90 days, and dozens cited fears of insider trading. One reader said: “They would probably have ‘insider knowledge’ of how MRP or any other state-owned companies were trading, and if in a downward spiral, would be able to offload them without getting hurt.”

    Not everyone wants ministers forced to sell all their shares, something that might discourage successful people from standing for office.

    Some cited the example of John Key, whose wealth is managed through a “blind trust” over which he says he has no control.

    “Good practice would be for all ministers to put their financial affairs into a blind trust type arrangement,” one reader said.

    Some also felt the suggested rule would do nothing to stop ministers from taking up roles such as directorships on assets they sold even after leaving office.

    The MPs from NZ First, Labour, and the Greens have all pledged not to buy Mighty River Power shares to demonstrate their opposition to the sale.

    _____________________________________________________________________________

    https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/?ui=2&ik=18afffb768&view=att&th=13ddc0c862efa428&attid=0.0&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P-I5Cd-lIWIP7LzmJSi9erv&sadet=1365196872571&sads

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    RISKS and INFORMATION which have arguably not been fully disclosed in the Mighty River Power prospectus, thus potentially misleading investors :

    1) Over-supply of wholesale electricity now.

    2) Further over-supply of the wholesale electricity market if the Government partially-privatises State-Owned Enterprises Meridian and Genesis.

    3) The consumer boycott of Mercury Energy, Mighty River Power’s main retail electricity provider by the Switch Off Mercury Energy community group. http://www.switchoffmercuryenergy.org.nz

    4) Failure to attempt to quantify the cost to Mighty River Power, if Rio Tinto does not reach a deal with Meridian Energy.

    5) Cabinet Ministers responsible for setting a ‘good’ price for Mighty River Power, John Key, Bill English, Steven Joyce and Tony Ryall are not prohibited by law from purchasing shares in Mighty River Power, so are potentially ‘information insiders’ as per
    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1988/0234/latest/DLM140405.html

    8A Who is information insider

    (1) A person is an information insider of a public issuer if that person—
    (a) has material information relating to the public issuer that is not generally available to the market; and
    (b) knows or ought reasonably to know that the information is material information; and
    (c) knows or ought reasonably to know that the information is not generally available to the market.

    (2) A public issuer may be an information insider of itself.
    Section 8A: inserted, on 29 February 2008, by section 5 of the Securities Markets Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 47).

    (OFFICIAL INFORMATION REPLY FROM MINISTER FOR STATE-OWNED ENTERPRISES TONY RYALL):

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ung4048v4cgtul7/Slevel6.3-c13031716040.pdf

    This information has not been disclosed to investors.

    7) Mighty River Power is also arguably misleading investors , because it advertises investors to ‘share’ in a company that they arguably already own, as currently a ‘State-Owned Enterprise’.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
    A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy Group

  24. Morrissey 24
    12 April 2013 at 7:23 pm

    Superior edition of The Panel this afternoon
    Finlay Macdonald gets his act together and delivers
    Radio NZ National, Friday 12 April 2013
    Jim Mora, Sam Johnson, Finlay Macdonald

    Jim Mora’s Panel program has been pretty effectively purged of dissenting voices. Regular listeners will remember two of the victims of Radio NZ’s clobbering machine, AKA the “management”. Gordon Campbell on one episode challenged the bullying ex-cop Graham Bell and forced him to back down, after Bell had indulged in a wandery, foam-flecked rant against Jeanette Fitzsimmons. Entertainingly, on another occasion Campbell also embarrassed the godawful Richard Griffin into backing down and apologizing after he had made a foolish and ignorant comment about Hugo Chavez. Griffin has since then been appointed to the chair of the Radio New Zealand Board of Governors—and Campbell has never again appeared on the program. In 2011, Panelist Martyn “Bomber” Bradbury dared to criticize the Prime Minister after Key had been involved in some typically hare-brained and reckless behavior in parliament; Bradbury was banished almost instantly for this act of lèse majesté.

    The few “left” or “liberal” voices that are still allowed on the Panel pose no such dangers. With the occasional exception, they are unlikely to spoil the convivial atmosphere, or to ruffle the smooth and unexamined prejudices of either Mora or the other guest, who will be almost inevitably a National Party supporter or something even further to the right.

    Occasionally, though, the token liberal actually does a good job. One of the occasional exceptions is Finlay Macdonald, who this afternoon managed to actually stay on message and say something coherent…

    JIM MORA: The BBC says it will continue to play “Ding Dong The Witch is Dead” even though it’s an obvious dig at Baroness Thatcher. What do we THINK of this?
    SAM JOHNSON: I admired her will, and her strong character!
    FINLAY MACDONALD: Well it’s all a bit obvious, really. There were plenty of songs actually inspired by Maggie Thatcher. Let’s face it: she was detested, especially in the north.
    SAM JOHNSON: I liked her leadership!
    FINLAY MACDONALD: She was never as popular as has been asserted recently.
    SAM JOHNSON: [doubtfully] Oh, okay.
    FINLAY MACDONALD: Sam, you need to remember she said some pretty terrible things. She once said that there are “reasonable people in the Khmer Rouge”.
    JIM MORA: Did she actually say that?
    SAM JOHNSON: She also said many clever things. “The lady’s not for turning.” That was one of her good ones.
    MORA: So what do we think? Should the BBC ban this like it banned “Lola” and it bowdlerized “Fairy Tale in New York”?
    FINLAY MACDONALD: Play it, I say! Play it!
    SAM JOHNSON: Many people admired her resolve!
    MORA: Oh okay. She’s a good witch in the eyes of a lot of people. And a bad witch to others of course.

    Soapbox…

    Finlay Macdonald’s contribution was a thoughtful and serious rumination on the pernicious and cynical use of the phrase “systemic failure”. The continual resort to such official codewords, he said, is a sign of the corruption of our intellectual and political life.

    Macdonald made his case so compellingly that Mora actually contributed something intelligent instead of doing something flippant like countering with a quote from some right wing ideologue in the New York Times. Sam Johnson, too, showed that he is more than the ambitious young-man-on-the-make he has too often appeared to be. For a short time, The Panel was an intelligent and interesting forum.

    What a pity it doesn’t happen more often.

    • North 24.1
      12 April 2013 at 9:19 pm

      Thanks Morrissey for that analysis. Poor guy. You are now obliged to furnish the same on a daily basis. MacDonald was great. No bones about it. Play the bloody thing !

      Aunty Affable Mora was dying to clutch her pearls over the “unseemliness” of celebrating The Vile Old Bag’s going off with 666 stamped all over her arse for delivery purposes but obviously thought better of it, for fear no doubt of Finlay showing him up for the Semi-Hurrah-Henry dick he is.

      The seminal thing for me about TVOB and her vaunted love of freedom and democracy is “Nelson Mandela is a terrorist”. What ??? Gimme Terrorist Nelson over you and your alarmingly inbred looking arms-dealing spawn Mummy, any day.

      Saw some comedy thing the other night where this wit (Englishman) said the send-off will be the first ceremonial funeral in history where the 21 gun salute shoots the coffin.

      • Morrissey 24.1.1
        12 April 2013 at 10:10 pm

        Saw some comedy thing the other night where this wit (Englishman) said the send-off will be the first ceremonial funeral in history where the 21 gun salute shoots the coffin.

        That was Frankie Boyle, from Scotland. He was speaking four years ago, following a rumour that she had died. Here’s the clip….

    • Te Reo Putake 24.2
      12 April 2013 at 10:40 pm

      Good summary, Moz. I heard the latter half, and then a Mora inspired waffle about why ‘systemic failure’ was a catch all for any modern enquiry. Actually, its not. It’s what kills kiwi workers at record levels. And a finding of systemic failure does not preclude individuals being fully prosecuted for personal failings. It’s not an either/or as Mora seemed to think.

      • Colonial Viper 24.2.1
        12 April 2013 at 10:45 pm

        It seems that very few of these top executives are worth the risk-free pay they demand.

        • Te Reo Putake 24.2.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 11:02 pm

          Any chance the SST is calling for the jailing of Peter Whittall? Nah, thought not.

          • Morrissey 24.2.1.1.1
            13 April 2013 at 8:29 pm

            Any chance the SST is calling for the jailing of Peter Whittall? Nah, thought not.

            The SST has officially come out in support of the exploding gas.

  25. rosy 25
    12 April 2013 at 7:27 pm

    Why is Gerry Brownlee wasting money by going to Thatcher’s funeral? Isn’t that the job of the High Commissioner, who is already paid and in-country?

    • felix 25.1
      12 April 2013 at 7:39 pm

      Because he’s pretty much sorted Christchurch now and has nothing pressing to do.

      • rosy 25.1.1
        12 April 2013 at 7:56 pm

        🙂 Aha! That’s the answer, definitely.

        Nothing at all to do with sycophantic need to be seen at a bombastic, jingoistic tory political rally.

        • felix 25.1.1.1
          12 April 2013 at 8:38 pm

          Actually you wanna know the real answer?

          It’s because Key knows everything he does is being watched and scrutinised and analysed and criticised for a change. Otherwise he’d be there already.

          • felix 25.1.1.1.1
            12 April 2013 at 8:44 pm

            Also Gerry heard the baby back ribs will be made from real babies.

          • rosy 25.1.1.1.2
            12 April 2013 at 8:54 pm

            Yeah, I immediately thought Key would be taking the long way home from China if he could get away with it. Then I wondered why anyone should be going at all.

            Hmm if Gerry wears the “Full Day Ceremonial without swords” he can hide some spare ribs in the scabbard for later.

  26. Penny Bright 26
    12 April 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Sticking up for the NZEI on Kiwiblog! 🙂

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/04/the_nzei_campaign.html/comment-page-1#comment-1125119

    There is no electorate ‘mandate’ for ‘charter’ schools.

    The ACT Party did NOT campaign on this issue in the 2011 election, and neither did the National Party.

    http://www.act.org.nz/policies/education

    http://www.national.org.nz/PDF_General/Education_in_Schools_policy.pdf

    The ‘business’ model for other essential public services has proven to be a disaster for the public – where is the evidence that it will work for students / parents or the public?

    Where is the transparency and accountability under this model?

    Where will the money go and who will benefit?

    ______________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-stanford/wall-street-charter-schools_b_2467608.html

    Wall Street Behind Charter School Push
    Posted: 01/15/2013 1:31 pm

    About a quarter of the kids in the San Antonio Independent School District attend charter schools. Most are the low-income, minority students we think about when we imagine providing innovative opportunities for kids stuck in failing public schools in bad neighborhoods. For a long time, school reform has targeted only kids from poor families. You know, the lucky ones who get those free lunches.

    Starting this fall, though, no longer will Texas exclude upper-middle class white kids like mine from the gravy train of school choice. Last November, the State Board of Education approved a charter allowing Great Hearts Academies to open a school in North San Antonio, the wealthier, whiter section of a majority-Hispanic city.

    Great Hearts Academies operates out of Arizona, where they survive not just on public funding that would normally go to public schools but also on mandatory fees as well as contributions from students’ families, pricing Great Hearts out of reach for most San Antonio families. In other words, upper-middle class Anglos are finally getting a taxpayer-subsidized private school. Our long nightmare of being stuck in high-performing, better-funded public schools is almost over.

    If that’s not what you have in mind when you think of school choice, you’re not alone. Great Hearts tried this in Nashville, but the school board rejected the charter application, arguing reasonably that creating a government-funded private school to serve an affluent, white neighborhood constituted segregation. It’s exactly what they’re planning in North San Antonio, except our school board approved it.

    Private tuition and public subsidies only provide enough money to pay the teachers, buy textbooks and keep the lights on. To build schools, you need to go into massive debt. But don’t worry, because our need to borrow millions of dollars creates an investment opportunity for Wall Street investment bankers.Apparently charter schools are “a favorite cause of many of the wealthy founders of New York hedge funds.” The word you’re probably looking for is “yippee.”

    Public school bonds are a safe investment, but low risk means lower reward, in this case an average 3 percent return on general-obligation funds used to raise money to build schools. But debt for charter schools runs an average of 3.8 percent higher than general-obligation bonds, and charter schools even qualify for federal tax credits under the Community Renewal Tax Relief Act of 2000.

    As every investment prospectus says in small type, investments carry risk. In this case, 3.91 percent of charter-school bonds are in default versus 0.03 percent for public schools. And since 1992, 15 percent of charters have closed, including 52 in Texas.

    Despite the risks, charter schools are big business. Pearson, the company that sells tests and curricula to public schools, also sells tests and curriculato charter schools, and JPMorgan Chase of worldwide economic meltdown fame is bullish on charter school construction.

    “Many charter schools have expanded access to academic opportunities for students in all types of communities, so we shouldn’t let tough economic times bring them down,” said JPMorgan Chase Chairman and CEO Jamie Dimon.

    This is the same Jamie Dimon who thought mortgage-backed securities were foolproof, who was forced to take $25 billion of our money in the bank bailout, who wrongly foreclosed on military families, whoovercharged 4,000 other military families by $2 million, and who then lost $2 billion of our money in what amounted to the kind of gambling that only happens after 4 a.m. in Las Vegas. Let’s absolutely have this guy underwrite our schools. What could go wrong that hasn’t already many times over?

    Subjecting our public school system to the free market requires us to accept that hopped-up Wall Street bankers will mess up, schools will close, and sooner or later, someone will have to choose between increasing shareholder returns and improving some kid’s education. Failure is not only an option. When it comes to Wall Street, failure is inevitable.

    The specter of resegregating our schools along racial and economic lines under the cloak of school choice presents a more daunting future for a state that is growing poorer, browner, and younger. When it comes to schools, the question isn’t whether we’re going to have charter schools or public schools. We have both now. When it comes to schools, the real choice is whether we are all in this together or if it’s every man for himself.”

    ______________________________________________________________________________

    So – if Wall St bank$ters are behind Charter Schools – and neither ACT nor National campaigned for Charter Schools during the 2011 election – did this idea actually come from John Key?

    (Just asking……. 🙂

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  28. Jenny 28
    12 April 2013 at 9:54 pm

    PETROBRAS – 2 FOR 1 SPECIAL!!!
    COASTAL OIL SPILL WRECKS SAO PAULO BEACHES AND MASSIVE PIPELINE BLOWOUT IN EQUADOR (5500 BARRELLS OF CRUDE!) IN ONE DAY!!!

    Dear Simon Bridges,

    Right now, Petrobras, the company your government permitted to drill for oil in the Raukumara Basin, is responsible for both a catastrophic oil spill off the beautiful San Paulo coast, and part of a consortium that owns a massive pipeline that has ruptured, causing over 5500 barrels of crude oil to spew into the biodynamic Esmeraldes Province in Ecuador. Right now. When it comes to environmental disaster, this company gives you value for money – 2 for 1, on the same day!!

    Yeah, your government accused us of scaremongering, said these accidents hardly ever happened. But they do happen. And they happen all the time for Petrobras. And they more in countries where governments falsely separate economic development from environmental integrity.

    You use words like ‘reckless’ and ‘criminal’ to describe those of my iwi who would stand up against deep sea oil drilling. These accidents could have happened here, because you and your government would have let them. You have no adequate regulation in place for these activities, yet you waste what precious time you have dreaming up new anti-protest jurisdiction you already asserted you had – instead of addressing the real issues. You are mistaken if you think peaceful protest and those seeking to protect the environment are the problem. You, and people who enable companies like Petrobras to do irreparable damage to the environment and get away with it, are the problem. You can’t fix that problem by silencing dissent. You can’t fix that problem by refusing to be accountable. You can’t fix that problem by threatening us. You can’t fix that problem by pretending the industry will safely regulate itself. And until you start addressing the real problem, we can assure you we will not be moving.

    Dayle Takitimu

    SAO PAULO, BRAZIL
    08/04/2013
    There is crude oil flowing into the coastal marine area, and volunteer crews are struggling against all odds to contain it. It has been described as an ‘environmental disaster’ for the area, which relies heavily on the marine area for tourism and fishing industries.
    The crude oil spill has hit the coastal cities of Sao Sebastiao and Caraguatatuba, which are a popular resort area along Sao Paulo’s Atlantic Ocean coast where residents of the state’s capital flock to relax from the hustle and bustle of Brazil’s largest city. The two cities sit across a marine channel from another popular tourist destination, an island known as Ilhabela.
    Sao Paulo state environment regulator Cetesb said it had fined parent company Petrobras 10 million Brazilian reais ($5 million) for an “operational failure” during refueling of a Transpetro ship at the terminal. Cetesb was still finalizing a report that will be submitted to state prosecutors, which could result in charges filed against the company, the regulator said.
    While Transpetro has removed globs of oil from the beaches and replaced soiled areas with fresh sand, Sao Sebastiao’s environment secretary, Eduardo Hipolito do Rego, said other environmentally sensitive areas remained contaminated.
    “Rocky coastal areas and other ecosystems, such as mangrove swamps, still have oil and will require special care” to be cleaned,” Mr. Hipolito said via telephone. “Starting now, a more delicate operation will be required.”
    A crop of mussels raised at an offshore farm was completely lost because of the spill, Mr. Hipolito said. Eight beaches in the Sao Sebastiao and Caraguatatuba areas also remain unfit for swimming, according to Cetesb.
    Transpetro said it will constantly monitor areas affected by the spill. The environmental fallout is expected to be huge, and long lasting.
    As many as 500 workers and 37 ships were mobilized to contain and clean up the spill, Transpetro said.
    The crude oil from the spill is currently “fouling three popular Brazilian beaches as slicks drift north off the coast of Sao Paulo state, complicating clean-up efforts. The area is north of the Terminal Almirante Barroso, where fuel spilled from an offshore pier Friday.”
    ____
    ESMERALDAS, ECUADOR
    08/04/2013
    At the same time, right now, in Ecuador, a pipeline part-owned by Petrobras is spilling heavy crude all over the place, wrecking havoc on the environment. The officials are just struggling to contain and mitigate the spill. Its still under emergency status, and they haven’t even repaired the pipe yet. So far 5500 barrels have been spilt, and the clean up has not even started. The true environmental impacts will be massive.

  29. Don't worry be happy 29
    13 April 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Can someone please tell me how I ‘know’ that Clare Curran was behind the contacting of contributors to The Standard (through matching their user names with the same names and registration details on Red Alert?)

    I thought I ‘knew’ that people who belonged to the Labour Party and who were commenting or blogging on The Standard were told to stop backing Cunliffe over Shearer for Leader or leave the Party and that she was behind this as the Labour Party IT go to person.

    I met Ms Curran today. She said the claim was false. She said she would come on The Standard today and defend herself (so long as no one was abusive).

    I have an invitation from her to go to her Electorate Meeting and from another Labour Party official to go to the Dunedin North Meeting. Can anyone help?

    • Colonial Viper 29.1
      13 April 2013 at 6:03 pm

      I have met some of the frequent commentators/mods on The Standard and they know my bona fides.

      Firstly, pick an electorate/branch with an active membership and one with people you can get along with. Each electorate (and each branch within that electorate) has a different demographic of membership and different emphasis in terms of what their usual focus is. Find one which suits you.

      Secondly, Labour Party meetings are supposed to be about the party, its policies, and the activities of the membership. I’m speaking where Labour”s “Party” and it’s “Parliamentary wing” are two very distinct and separate entities. Unfortunately, in too many electorates these days, the meetings have become a kind of “MPs supporters club”. Which I believe is the presumption behind how you worded your question, and which I believe is a concept worth identifying and then canning nice and early. Candidates come and go, MPs come and go. The party and your support for it are supposed to go much deeper than just that.

      Lastly, you can trust Curran as far as you can throw her with both hands tied behind your back.

    • Colonial Weka 29.2
      13 April 2013 at 6:18 pm

      I don’t think you have got your questions quite right there. Important because after all we wouldn’t want the wrong question to be put to Curran and then for her to miss out on being able to answer truthfully.

      Here’s an overview http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/238634/curran-hits-out-online-critics

      And if you want more specifics on the discussion here, look at the conversations in the week preceding and around that article.

    • Mongoose 29.3
      14 April 2013 at 11:47 am

      DWBH, It would indeed be a good idea to take up both offers and attend both meetings in order to make up your own mind about any MPs credibilty. Also, it’s an opportunity to see the workings of LEC or branch meetings, especially if you are interested in finding our more about the workings of the NZLP.

      Colonial Viper’s comments are made in bad faith – an obvious personal vendetta – so surely it would be best to make up your own mind?

      Unfortunately blogsites such as this encourage a torch and pitchfork mentality without the benefit of many unknown facts behind the scenes.

      If an MP says a claim is false then I would imagine you yourself would want an opportunity to defend your integrity were you to find yourself in a similar position.

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