Act’s Euthanasia Bill

Written By: - Date published: 10:05 am, June 12th, 2017 - 83 comments
Categories: act - Tags: ,

There’s going to be a debate about euthanasia this election.

The Health Select Committee hasn’t released its report into the issue.

However, the bill has been pulled from the ballot as a Private Members Bill, from Act. Here’s the text.

In the text, no doctor is forced to do it.

There’s plenty of written consents throughout the process, with two doctors.

Complaints about doctors using this system will get reported to Parliament once a year.

The Act has to be reviewed every 5 years.

One thing to watch. If the forms are filled out in any way improperly, the punishment as drafted is a term of imprisonment not exceeding three months and a fine not exceeding $10,000

Also, there’s no discussion about coercion or costs as a driver, so hopefully the Select Committee report covers that.

Some opponents:

Some supporting:

83 comments on “Act’s Euthanasia Bill”

  1. Gosman 1

    The ACT party has no formal position on this bill. It is David Seymour’s private members bill.

  2. dukeofurl 2

    Palliative care Nurses of NZ opposed ? Thats significant

    http://www.pcnnz.co.nz/ ( very little info , unless you join)

    but their statement on Euthanasia is here – note spelling !
    http://www.pcnnz.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Euthanasia-position-statement-2012.pdf

    It would be interesting to see if most of their leadership is from the catholic church adherents

    • Gosman 2.1

      Euthanasia in the palliative care industry already exists. It is just done on the quiet via morphine.

      • dukeofurl 2.1.1

        Yes but isnt that for those with only a few days or at most couple weeks left.
        No doctor would risk it with someone who was still 6 months to go.

      • Stunned Mullet 2.1.2

        There is some truth in that.

    • It’s not as significant as you’d think, really. Most people involved in end-of-life care oppose euthanasia because they believe in extending and improving the quality of life, so there’s no way to write a bill that will please them.

  3. P 3

    *Euthanasia

    [Oops corrected now – MS]

    • The title is still wrong BTW.

      [lprent: Corrected ALL instances. Including the tags. And except the slug… That takes too much work to do from work as my personal laptop is at home running my email system temporarily. ]

  4. McFlock 4

    Also, there’s no discussion about coercion or costs as a driver, so hopefully the Select Committee report covers that.

    In that case the bill fails to address the most significant problem with the practise it seeks to legalise.

    • Yeah, my concern is that we have to be very careful that this doesn’t become anything resembling a slippery slope where people end their lives to avoid being a burden, or because they feel lonely, or other problems that should be remedied rather than simply “solved” by what at that point is an assisted suicide without any of the actual mercy that justifies the practice of euthanasia.

      Similar laws overseas have begun to have this problem, in addition to “death tourism,” which any NZ law should safeguard against, too.

      • marty mars 4.1.1

        I had a friend who after bad cancer diagnosis went home to The Netherlands, had a party, said goodbye and died.

        Would be very good to see some assessment of what happens in other countries.

      • simonm 4.1.2

        “…in addition to “death tourism,” which any NZ law should safeguard against, too.”

        The law will only apply to NZ citizens and Permanent Residents. There you go, I’ve fixed that non-issue for you.

  5. Muttonbird 5

    Anyone who thinks Seymour and the rest of the far right are driving this on compassionate grounds has rocks in their head.

    This is about cutting health costs and freeing up beds.

    • Timbeau 5.1

      I’m with Muttonbird. No legislation, no matter how carefully drafted, can avoid the problem of people reluctantly consenting to die so that they are no longer “a burden”. That’s the nature of humanity: we are a burden to one another, and it’s our privilege to get to carry one another. https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/02/26/but-rick-santorums-sorta-right-about-dutch-euthanasia/amp/&ved=0ahUKEwja9eOPl7fUAhUGErwKHSy9AcMQFghhMAg&usg=AFQjCNE3oFg8wSnmIQ61VuvgAfmBwGNNdA&sig2=2mHweV6Tocc-1Kr_-X2cIg

      • Uh, if you restrict euthanasia to the terminally ill, that problem at the very least shrinks into a tertiary consideration.

        There’s not “no way,” but it is complicated and depends what kind of mercy/dignity you’re looking to promote with a euthanasia bill.

        And no, I actually disagree with Muttonbird. This is Seymour’s “freedom” (for rich white people) obsession taken to its logical conclusion, where the government isn’t allowed to regulate against someone helping you kill yourself when you’re in a situation that’s never likely to improve.

        That’s not to say such a bill couldn’t be a front for that kind of motivation, I just don’t believe it from someone as obsessed as Seymour.

    • Wayne 5.2

      A cheap and baseless attack by Muttonbird. Seymor’s bill is entirely consistent with Act’s libertarian philosophy.

      I really get sick and tired of the smug assumption of the left (or at least by many of them) of their moral superiority. And that only base motivations actuate the right.

      Having just read Wild Kapito’s struggle (during the edit phase of this post), Kia kaha and Aroha.

      • tc 5.2.1

        Yes because it’s more to do with looking libertarian without having to walk the talk.

        This will be kicked down the road till after the GE, a nice stage for the pollies to parade.

      • Muttonbird 5.2.2

        I’m sorry Wayne but all evidence I see is that base motivations do drive the right on social issues. I’m sure they are just as loving on an individual level in the family home but their views on community and society are morally defunct. The left kills them on this.

      • peterlepaysan 5.2.3

        Since when have libertarians been concerned about human suffering?

  6. adam 6

    The T4 program was started the same way, just ask any Gypsy, Mormon, Gay, Lesbian or Jewish historian how that worked out.

    This is a very dark road, painted as something humane.

    • simonm 6.1

      Rubbish. You’re taking one the darkest periods in human history and attempting to conflate it with the voluntary act of assisted dying that patients request themselves to end their suffering. They are in no way related.

      • adam 6.1.1

        You do know that everyone thought Germany was one of the most civilise countries in the world. You do know that getting to the killing machine was incremental, and one step in that process was a voluntary euthanasia law? Which gave rise to the T4 program, but yeah were to enlightened, it can’t happen here.

        • joe90 6.1.1.1

          voluntary euthanasia law?

          The widespread so called mercy killing of the sick and disabled that morphed in the final solution was preceded by voluntary euthanasia, really?.

          • Muttonbird 6.1.1.1.1

            You seem to be posting a bit more outside of your usual incessant diet of Trump links. Has the topic of assisted dying in New Zealand wakened you from your slumber?

            • joe90 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Trump’s on the verge of depriving twenty something million folk of health care, but I’m sure you have a tractor to piss and moan about.

              /

              • Muttonbird

                I can’t do anything about Trump and quite frankly, that 20 million in the US are deprived of health care doesn’t really interest me with respect to posting on this site. The state of US politics doesn’t impinge on the wellbeing of my community one bit.

                Charity begins at home, etc.

                • joe90

                  But you’re interested in what I choose to post about, aren’t you.

                  • Muttonbird

                    You can’t miss it. For months now you’ve posted nothing but Americanisms and Trumpfacts. I see it and scroll right past because that has nothing to do with improving NZ society.

                    Then you commented on my post about tractors on state highways and I think I’ve seen recently you comment on something else NZ related.

                    I noticed it because it’s so unusual. Your recent thoughts about your own country are welcome and you should do more of it – it might help.

                    • joe90

                      I’m deeply involved in my own wider community, making my way looking out for immediate whanau, doing my best for extended family and friends and trying to make a living while I’m at it

                      I don’t need an hysterical ninny with a reek of sanctimony about them telling me what I should and shouldn’t give a fuck about.

                      So if you don’t mind, would you kindly go fuck yourself. Thanx in advance.

                      [RL: Get out of the vortex …take today off.]

          • adam 6.1.1.1.2

            As it’s too hard to pick up a text, or indeed look on the internet. Here is an introduction page for you.

            https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005200

  7. Glenn 7

    “As of June 2016, human euthanasia is legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, and Luxembourg. Assisted suicide is legal in Switzerland, Germany, Japan, Canada, and in the US states of Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Vermont, Montana, Washington DC, and California.
    Legality of euthanasia – Wikipedia”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_euthanasia

    The unfortunate effect of NZs current laws is that to be certain of avoiding a painful death with many terminal illnesses one has to act while one is still well enough to do so. And by oneself to avoid implicating others.
    This is cruel and inhuman.

  8. Whispering Kate 8

    I am so totally opposed to this Bill. It is repugnant and a sign of a selfish nation wanting everything for me. Me for an easy death, me for passing on the buck to somebody else to do it for me, me for wanting it all including a date when to die. Me for not being able to face dying, for fearing dying and for not having the maturity and acceptance that this is the one certainty we have in this life and to just have the humility to accept it. This is playing science too far and playing into the ” freeing up beds and cost factor” to selfish family members who find their aging relatives an encumbrance they have no wish to be burdened with.

    Leave the medical profession right out of this – why the hell should they have to end up being state executioners for the selfish. It just sickens me the whole suggestion of euthanasia.

    • You don’t think requiring someone to tough it out when they’re in a literally hopeless situation is also a bit selfish, putting them in unnecessary pain to satisfy someone else’s moral convictions?

      If someone is genuinely going to die whatever we do, shouldn’t they have a choice of how? I would also point out it’s a little confused to say that wanting to die earlier is somehow fearing your own mortality. If anything, it’s embracing it, inviting it, but wanting it to come earlier so you can skip some pain. In principle I don’t see a problem there, although in practice I think there’s a lot of things to nail down before you can have a safe euthanasia law that doesn’t lead to a slippery slope.

      We’ve also started down this path already to some degree by accepting that people or their proxies can request a cessation of extraordinary care, such as coming off a ventilator. While there’s absolutely an emotional difference to the person carrying it out, it’s not particularly different in terms of the moral implications between letting someone die when you could have kept them alive, and actually helping them die in the way they want when they ask you to if they’re of sound mind and are going to die anyway without intervention.

      As for medical professionals, I think anyone who supports euthanasia agrees that any of them should be free to opt out of providing any assistance with it that they personally find immoral, and that those who do provide assistance need to be thoroughly reviewed to ensure their conduct is merciful and professional, as there is a very real type of serial killer that operates in a way very similar to euthanasia, (“angels of death”) and we don’t want any of them sneaking past us because the law has loosened the way for them.

      • greywarshark 8.1.1

        Matthew W
        Well said your point at end is good. I think younger people need to have mandatory counselling to see if there is something that could be done so they could keep on and have a reasonably happy life.

        As one gets older, going through the steps, creating a living will or whatever would be a requirement except for those who are unable to go through those steps and there needs to be careful concerned and documented approach.
        When life gets too hard and one can’t stand the constant knocks of inhumanity that seem endless, and living conditions are not good, it should be okay to choose to go even if health is not an issue.

        But just at the moment lets deal with those with terminal issues and get a set system, including doctors who can be reached by some private enquiry who are prepared to help. They will need protection as there are those who consider that no-one should have any rights for themselves, and that helping someone cross the river styx is at fault and they will persecute, despite if they are so tender for people, there are thousands of suffering humanity overseas, and, indeed in NZ who would be assisted by their positive attention.

        • As to counseling to ensure people aren’t being rash- I wouldn’t look specifically at young people if you want to check that people are making informed decisions, but rather base it on life expectancy. Someone who has months or weeks left is in roughly the same spot whether they’re 18 or 78, wheras someone with 20 years left also potentially has things they could do with those years if their condition allows, whether they’re, say, 16 or 56. I’d also be very careful that it’s not simply a roadblock that takes the decision away from people, and really offering them an actual service to see what their goals are in the time they’ve got left and whether there are ways to meet them while maybe still controlling how they die in a way that’s acceptable to them and lets them have their dignity, or their mercy, whichever is their goal in euthanasia.

          And yes, advance directives and so forth are excellent ideas and anyone with a terminal or degenerative condition should be offered that service as a matter of good practice.

          As for persecution, (I assume you deliberately meant that and not prosecution, which legalisation of euthanasia would address) there are existing laws that make certain tactics illegal and should provide adequate protection IMO, it’ll just need people to be aware of their rights.

          And yes, I potentially agree that just talking about the terminally ill may be unfair. But we should proceed with caution here as other countries have genuinely experienced a slippery slope on this issue.

    • greywarshark 8.2

      Whispering Kate
      By all means leave the medical profession out of it. Just let’s stop encouraging police to make raids on ordinary citizens making their own way through life and death.

      At present there is an oppressive system and unwillingness to let people go in their own way. Yet compare it to how complacent people are about people not having housing. There is a huge furore about it but still so little done, and caring people need to do it all the time, not just turn on the taps when people decide they want to do, whereupon they are suddenly too precious to be allowed to die.

    • infused 8.3

      I think you need to get over yourself tbh. This isn’t about you.

  9. RRM 9

    Seymour is spot on, this is a core personal freedom issue.

    Don’t want a gay marriage? Don’t get one.

    Don’t want a joint? Don’t smoke one.

    Don’t want a painless way of avoiding a few agonizing final months? Don’t take one.

    But please please PLEASE don’t use the power of the state to force me to choose the same as what you say you would choose.

    • simonm 9.1

      Got it one. Thank you for stating my own views so succinctly. I don’t agree with David Seymour on any economic issues, but in this instance he’s absolutely right.

    • David C 9.2

      RRM.

      Spot on.
      I just dont care if others want to linger on, good luck to them.
      I will happily take a pill (if I can) or have someone shoot me up if I cant swallow the pill.

      What I dont want is one of my brothers prosecuted for bringing me something to kill myself with.

  10. I had a son who had acute lymphoblastic leukemia. Had it for 8 years of his 11 years 11 months life. It went away then came back after a few years interval. I did a diploma in science and technology to gain insight, thus I spent massive hours on the internet researching pre drug therapy’s, ( particularly around the 1930’s/Royal Rife etc ) .

    I finally found constant patterns of successful maintenance . It largely consisted of the chemical compounds found in common supermarket food products. It was simply adjusted to the volume of intake. And others to avoid. It worked. We had the doctors scratching their heads wondering what was going on.

    He was labelled the pin up boy for successful cancer treatment by them.

    Then he contracted a lung disease called pneumocystis carinii . A common bacteria/ fungi in the environment that was deadly to victims of Aids in the 1980s. And those with compromised immune systems such as with cancer. The drugs had been developed, and there should have been no excuse.

    However my ex had taken my children to a part of the country 100 miles away from Starship. There the hospital doctors had written off my child’s lung infection as ‘ asthma, pneumonia or some other more common ailment. They were out of their depths.

    They were not Pediatric Hematologist/Oncologists.

    They obviously did not do the required research into his unique needs ie: read his voluminous medical notes from Starship.

    They sent him home time after time after prescribing Ventolin and saying ” he wasn’t taking his Ventolin regularly enough”

    I, as the non primary caregiver was kept out of the loop of what was going on until late in the piece.

    Given the mushroom second hand account treatment.

    One night , – when my ex had gone to bed after calling me over to monitor my child throughout the night ( he had been making loud audible high pitched whooping noises when inhaling for weeks) after being sent home again by these same doctors and them implying my ex was becoming a nuisance , – I had had enough.

    I marched in and said I’m taking him to the hospital.

    I DEMANDED ACTION.

    In less than 2 hours we were both in an ambulance headed for Starship. However, that disease had been left to progress so far that it was described as like ‘ trying to breathe through concrete’ … the scarred lung tissue was so advance…

    My son Jack died in the Piku ward 6 weeks later at Starship hospital.

    6 weeks before he died he was helping me lift sheep over a farm fence I was house sitting at. He was a robust and tall for his age boy.

    They counselled him to ready him for death.

    They fed him on morphine and he had tubes sticking out all over him and had to breathe through an oxygen mask. He was totally mentally coherent but constantly breathless . And for most of it, we all hoped against hope. But it was inevitable as we came from a observing a see sawing medical progress that finally , his young body was no longer coping.

    The night that he was expected to die he woke up in the morning and exclaimed ” I’m alive !! – I’m still here !!!. And he was hungry. His last meal was a meat pie and chicken nuggets.

    As he was finally declining rapidily with all the family gathered around and me and his mother holding his hands… I was asked to consent to the staff administering a lethal amount of morphine.

    I was appalled,… with tears coursing down my cheeks… I said – ” I CANT DO THAT !!”

    They were asking me to give permission to put down my stricken child like some veterinarian would put down an injured , aged dog.

    Jack died , long after they said he would, not of cancer, – and had it been taken seriously – not of that commonly treated lung disease that used to be so deadly back in the 1980’s , but of the intentionally lethal dose of morphine that I , as a parent, was asked to administer to my own son.

    A year later, I took that case to the Health and Disability Commissioner. My sister was a nurse all her working life, and we have a large – several inches think report we submitted that highlighted incompetence and negligence .

    I still have that original report. And all the medical data and notes. All of it.

    One year later I received a series of letters from the H& D Commissioner. And finally the pre final verdict. It contained a weak apology from a small list of people with the fall person being a nurse. A nurse of all people.

    Nurses do not draw up procedures to treat chronic illness – doctors do. And it was the doctors I wanted. Not the nurses. I finally revived the final letter . I haven’t bothered to open it to this day. I knew what sort of whitewash it would contain.

    All that happened way back in 2005 , And its as clear and raw now as if it happened just 6 months ago . Not a day goes past I don’t think of Jack. And every day I have my Jack ‘ moments’. You never get over losing a child. Ever.

    Think about that before we go letting politicians push for something like euthanasia, – I have just provided a personal example of how even doctors and medical staff can be lazy , incompetent and negligent. Can you really trust politicians to not be the same ? – that may never have had to deal with such things on a personal level and up front?

    I speak from experience about what I think and feel about euthanasia… this is just my personal thoughts and recollecting that moment when I , as a father , was asked to administer a lethal dose of morphine to my own son. And these days I do not suffer fools lightly or any other bullshit artists who are pushing their own agendas. And its been that way since 2005. I have a great sense of humor, but the events in 2005 have changed things and left me feeling like this song towards the pretentious , so called ‘experts’ and those posing they ‘ know better’ such as many of our politicians and those in ‘ authority’ .

    Like fuck they do.

    Phil Collins – In The Air Tonight (Official Music Video) – YouTube

    • RRM 10.1

      I’m so sorry to hear that, that’s absolutely horrific. Fly free young Jack.

    • * Edit.

      I was not the one who gave consent. I refused. I cannot even remember who it was. And when people tell me, I seem to forget. Being in that situation is a surreal experience. Its like it is a dream state . Noises distort , events happen quickly etc…

      Ive always been pro life despite some people who disagree with that, however all I ask is to consider carefully that whole area. And I am well aware of the incredible pain and suffering people go through , myself having a heart attack 4 months back and still not feeling ‘ right’ .

      • Brigid 10.2.1

        I am so dreadfully sorry. I understand a smidgeon of what you, your son, and his mother endured having helped care for my sister through the last 4 months of her life.
        My sister, Helen, could have, at any time during this time taken a whole bottle of opioid that would have ended her life, as the doctor kept her well supplied. She didn’t. Even when she articulated that she ‘wished it was all over’, she didn’t.
        Thankfully we all had competent medical care and help, and her last few days were peaceful.
        However that was because we demanded it. We researched her condition and the drugs she was given and insisted on action when we knew her drugs needed changing.
        Just as you did. Your son for all his bad luck surely had a wonderful father.
        I am sorry that you suffered so.

    • gsays 10.3

      thank you wk, for sharing this.
      what courage and tenacity you have shown and bring integrity to this discussion.

      thanks again.

      • Whispering Kate 10.3.1

        Thank you Wild Katipo for your sharing of your loss of your son. I have had every family member of mine go before me, with medical advances in palliative care and good communication between hospice doctors and nurses, cancer society backup and district nurses – no death needs to be distressing for the dying person.

        This is just a cop out and a dark dark road we are going down – a thin edge of the wedge and then how many other excuses will there be for other vulnerable people in our society, mentally unwell, elderly frail supposedly becoming a burden on their families. The whole set up is disgusting. I wouldn’t trust our Governments with putting through this bill – Bomber on the Daily Blog tells us of Jenny Shipley’s ideas when she was slashing the health budget – for keeping the dialysis costs down – listing all the people who were in last stage kidney disease who would not be eligible for dialysis – it sounded like a final solution from the Third Reich. Anybody who had a history of mental illness, anyone over the age of 65, a history of unsocial behaviour – the list went on – a bloody disgrace it was. Keep euthanasia out of NZ.

        • WILD KATIPO 10.3.1.1

          Yes, I remember Bomber in one of his articles mentioning Shipley and that clandestine ‘keeping of the costs down’…. I just could not recall precisely all the details but wanted to mention that , but didnt have the time to dig it up…

          But now I have and here it is:

          ………………………………………

          Alpha personalities, humility of death & Jenny Shipley – 3 reasons I …
          thedailyblog.co.nz/…/alpha-personalities-humility-of-death-jenny-shipley-3-reasons-i-…

          ( you have to copy and paste this sorry )
          ………………………………………..

          Perhaps that was a Jenny Shipley thing, not necessarily a National party thing,… but I , like you , disagree with euthanasia. I also , like you , was aware of the NAZI program to euthanize anyone the state deemed unfit for life.

          And I first became aware of that back in the 1970’s when I was a pre teen and the ‘ World at War’ series was being screened , and my older sister ( who later went on to become a nurse) was thoroughly disgusted at it. Shes still pretty much pro life and so am I.

          After my sister left nursing because she had seen too much death – much of it tragically preventable ,- and because the death of my son was the final straw, she went on to be the administrator at the Salvation Army Bethany ( for young women who were pregnant and from high risk backgrounds and who were often poor and homeless , as an alternative to simply aborting those unborn baby’s ) – and she dealt with some pretty heavy duty individuals ( gang members etc – so I taught these docile S.A women Jujitsu restraining techniques L0L ! ) – the point of this being, that life is a gift , should not be encouraged to be deemed expendable , nor should we embrace what you term the ‘ thin end of the wedge’.

    • Foreign waka 10.4

      Wild Katipo, I sincerely feel for you, having lost almost every member of my family prematurely, I really know how you feel. I too would never ask anybody to hasten along to dead a life that is not ours to take.
      My condolences and I am sorry for your loss.

    • RedLogix 10.5

      @Wild Katipo

      Well that was a tough read. And even tougher to type up, reliving those events all these years later. Time might take the sting out of it, but never the pain. And oddly enough I was listening to that exact Phil Collins song just last night. He was a very talented man, few musicians are both great drummers and singers at the same time.

      I can add nothing to what you have said, except to let you know I admire your forthrightness and honesty. Thank you.

    • Ad 10.6

      Wild Katipo that is by a fair way the best and most heartfelt comment I’ve seen on this site in a long time. Thankyou for that.

  11. Tanz 11

    This is not going to be a vote winner, dangerous, dangerous, dangerous.

    • David C 11.1

      I think it will be a vote winner for ACT. From people that usually wouldnt touch ACT with a bargepole will go there in appreciation of Seymor’s bravery.
      Wont be a game changer but half a percent will get ACT a second MP.

    • Nick K 11.2

      So?

      It’s the right thing to do. It’s easy to have “vote-winner” policies. But that’s nothing but populist garbage.

  12. Tanz 12

    Bravery or stupidity, two sides of the same coin.

    • David C 12.1

      Tanz.
      But small party politics is about a point of difference.
      Look at the way the Greens are wailing about Morgan at the mo’, worried (rightly) that he will steal their lunch come election time.

      • Muttonbird 12.1.1

        Emphasis on small. ACT is a sub 1% party on life support by cynical National Party doctors.

        I’d vote euthanasia if it applied to then ACT Party first which needs to be put out of its misery.

  13. Muttonbird 13

    Further to this bill, according to Wayne, being ‘consistent with ACT’s libertarian values’, is it not just a publicity stunt for Seymour and ACT to try to get their name in the headlines before the election? A sub 1% party putting some edgy topic out there like TOP has with weed legislation?

    If he was truely serious about this issue he wouldn’t bring it up three months before polling.

  14. Glenn 14

    It should be put to a binding referendum this coming election then we can do what the majority want. Called democracy and works most places in the world.

    • Muttonbird 14.1

      Not sure if the public are the best people to be deciding this, specially if a referendum is introduced at this late stage. What proper debate could be had in that time?

      • KJT 14.1.1

        Why shouldn’t the public decide?

        I am rather sick of the breathtaking arrogance of the political class, on both right and left, who think they should have the say over our lives, in so many things.

        It is not as though the quality of the decision making of a small minority, in Parliament, is that good.

        BCIR, Swiss style, is long overdue.

        If you don’t like euthanasia, you have every right to opt out. But you have no right to dictate to me that I should die in a prolonged agony, to satisfy your religious objections.

        • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1.1

          I am rather sick of the breathtaking arrogance of the political class, on both right and left, who think they should have the say over our lives, in so many things.

          QFT

          It is not as though the quality of the decision making of a small minority, in Parliament, is that good.

          Actually, it’s almost always sub-par.

  15. Glenn 15

    So you think that in this case democracy won’t work?
    That voters aren’t the best people to be deciding the laws they must live under?
    Wow I never realized how stupid and inept we voters are.

    May had a snap election in a relatively short time and yet we NZers are unable to debate 1 single bill in a longer time frame?

    Put it to the voter!

    • KJT 15.1

      Don’t you realise the public are too thick to make decisions about our own lives.

      Decisions that important should be left to 60 politicians to dictate. 120 if a conscience vote.

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  • Contempt
    Back in June, the UK Court of Appeal ruled that that country's continued arms sales to Saudi Arabia were unlawful. So you'd expect that the UK government stopped approving them, right?Of course not:The government has apologised for breaching a court ruling against the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    23 hours ago
  • Covering up the cover-up
    Yesterday NZDF officials were put on the stand about the lies they had told over Operation Burnham, making implausible claims that it was all a big mistake. But along the way, we learned they had already been put on the spot about it by a previous Defence Minister, who had ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    24 hours ago
  • Not as important as they think they are
    Farmers have been whining a lot lately, about the methane targets in the Zero Carbon Bill, about Canterbury's proposed nitrogen limits, and about the government's new proposals to stop them from shitting in our lakes and rivers. These policies are "throwing farmers under the tractor", they will force farmers off ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Behind Every Good Woman Should Stand – Another Good Woman.
    Alone, Alone, All, All, Alone: To argue that the Prime Minister is the victim of her advisers’ failure to keep her informed may offer Jacinda some measure of exoneration – but only at the cost of casting her as a hopeless political ingénue. A star-dusted muppet, whose only purpose is to ...
    1 day ago
  • Poor quality, poorly educated kiddie ‘Journalists’ spreading fake news
    In times of hysteria about the “World coming to an end” and “rising sea levels” so-called ‘Journalists’ who can barely spell words longer than four letters are having a ball! Though the majority of the Public have worked out that manmade climate change is nothing short of pseudo-science, and the ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    1 day ago
  • Chris Trotter on the BFD
    I don't want to give pblicity to certain parts of the internet that are better left to fester in their own irrelevance (I know, a bit like this place) but the listing of Chris Trotter as a 'author' on Cameron Slater's spinoff website, the BFD requires some explanation.Now, I don't ...
    2 days ago
  • Sex is not a spectrum
    The text below is a Twitter thread by Heather Heying that explains the essence of sexual reproduction and it long evolutionary history. She is an evolutionary biologist and a “professor-in-exile” after she and her husband, Bret Weinstein, stood up to supporters of an enforced “Day of Absence” for white staff and teachers ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: Trees, aviation, and offsets
    With crunch time for new Zealand climate policy approaching, most of the New Zealand media have got on board with a global reporting effort to cover the issue. There's one strand of stories today about polling and what it shows about changing public attitudes to the crisis, but the strand ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Pissing-Off The Israelis Is A High-Risk Strategy.
    Dangerous Foes: For those readers of Bowalley Road who feel disposed to dismiss any prospect of an Israeli destabilisation of New Zealand politics, the example of the United Kingdom repays close attention. Ever since the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the British Labour Party, the Israelis have sanctioned, funded and ...
    2 days ago
  • Something to go to in Wellington
    Make It 16, the youth-led campaign to lower New Zealand's voting age, is holding an official campaign launch at Parliament this Friday from 16:30. If you'd like to attend, you can register using EventBrite here. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • A founding member responds to Peace Action Wellington
    by Don Franks It was a lovely sunny Wellington afternoon with blue skies above  the beaches.  In Courtenay Place, political activists packed out a stuffy upstairs room for an important meeting. The assembled pacifists, anarchists, communists and independent young radicals of Peace Action Wellington felt the need for a mission ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 days ago
  • “Mistakes and errors”
    Current and former NZDF top brass are being publicly grilled this week by the hit and run inquiry over their public responses to allegations of civilian casualties. Previously, they've claimed there were no casualties, a position which led them to lie to Ministers and to the public. Now, they're saying ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • “Homosexuality is same-sex attraction and relationships, not heterosexuals with delusions of gende...
    by Rafael D. Quiles (gender-critical gay man from Puerto Rico) The writing on the wall is right in people’s faces and people just don’t see it or don’t want to. What could actually possess a heterosexual male to want to feminize himself and claim that he is a lesbian? Because ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • Trump: “Where’s my favourite dictator?”
    From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...
    3 days ago
  • Magdalen Burns, 1983-2019, fighter for women’s liberation
    by the Redline blog collective At Redline we are very saddened to hear of the death of Magdalen Burns who passed away on the morning of Friday, September 13 (British time). Magdalen was a great fighter for the rights of women in general and lesbian women in particular, a defender ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • Parliament and the Executive
    The Brexit issue has certainly brought with it a series of apparently difficult constitutional issues, many of them concerning the respective roles of the executive and parliament. Most of them arise because of the unwillingness of MPs, despite their professions to the contrary, to be bound by a constitutional rarity ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    4 days ago
  • The Abigail Article; Martyn Bradbury’s Article, and My Response
    . . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    4 days ago
  • Police will have to wear silly Buckingham Palace hats from now on, says Police Minister
    Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    5 days ago
  • A sensible crackdown
    The government has released its Arms Legislation Bill, containing the second tranche of changes to gun laws following the March 15 massacre. And it all looks quite sensible: a national gun register, higher penalties for illegal possession and dealing, tighter restrictions on arms dealers and shooting clubs, and a shorter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • California bans private prisons
    Private prisons are a stain on humanity. Prison operators explicitly profit from human misery, then lobby for longer prisons terms so they can keep on profiting. And in the US, prison companies run not only local and state prisons, but also Donald Trump's immigration concentration camps. Faced with this moral ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Why PPPs are a bad idea
    When National was in power, they were very keen on Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) - basicly, using private companies to finance public infrastructure as a way of hiding debt from the public. They were keen on using them for everything - roads, schools, hospitals. But as the UK shows, that "service" ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • A Movement That No Longer Moves.
    Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...
    5 days ago
  • NZ ‘left’ politically embracing extreme postmodernism
    by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    6 days ago
  • The obvious question
    The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The moment I found out that you found out, I acted swiftly
    By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • This is why people hate property developers
    Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Australia to Pacific: “Fuck you, you can all drown”
    World leaders are meeting in New York in two weeks for the 2019 Climate Action Summit, where they are expected to announce new and more ambitious targets to stop the world from burning. But the Australian Prime Minister won't be there, despite being in the USA at the time:Scott Morrison ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Implausible ignorance
    Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Labour’s Fatal Flaw.
     Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
    6 days ago
  • Ten reasons the Tories do NOT want an election
    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    7 days ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    7 days ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    7 days ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    7 days ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    1 week ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    1 week ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    1 week ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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