An expert opinion

Written By: - Date published: 3:22 pm, January 17th, 2008 - 41 comments
Categories: john key - Tags:

A reader just sent in this scan from the letters section of Today’s Herald.

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41 comments on “An expert opinion”

  1. Matthew Pilott 1

    C’mon JK – just stick to the script that your minders give you!! You know you can’t open your mouth without saying something stupid.

    How the hell will he win the election trying to think for himself!? 🙂

  2. East Wellington Superhero 2

    Wow. Some could begin to arguye that you guys are pathetic.
    Is the strength of your argument for another Labour government these piddling little one-ups.

    Matthew Pilott – To suggest that John is stupid is non-sensical. Surely someone who has been as success as Mr. Key is not stupid. I mean c’mon! Get real guys.

  3. Tane 3

    It shows a lack of judgment on John Key’s part, EWS. Nothing more, nothing less.

  4. Kimble 4

    farcical reasonfor invading Iraq?

    Should discredit everything else that person says from that point on. They arent an expert, they obviously have political reasons to weigh in on this issue.

    All you have done is say, “look, someone else who hates John Key as much as I do, agrees with me!”

  5. Pascal's bookie 5

    Eh? So the guy says something you don’t like about an unrelated matter so he can’t be an expert in something that he’s worked on for a decade?

  6. Matthew Pilott 6

    Matthew Pilott – To suggest that John is stupid is non-sensical. Surely someone who has been as success as Mr. Key is not stupid. I mean c’mon!

    So how about Michael Campbell for PM, or Tana Umaga, Marc Ellis or Jason Gunn – they have all been very sucessful in their fields.

    Making money by speculating is not the sign of a good elected representative or Prime Minister. I would choose to base it upon his words or actions outside of his previous profession.

    Kimble, how do you know that Mr Bhana isn’t a fisherman by trade, and that his expertise is on the letter’s main topic? Why dismiss it out of hand because it says something you don’t agree with?

  7. lemsip 7

    “Making money by speculating is not the sign of a good elected representative”

    I believe John Key was elected with a larger majority in his second MP election than his first. Obviously his consistuents believe he is doing a good job. You are nothing if not amusing Matthew.

  8. Matthew Pilott 8

    lemsip, he had a far higher profile by then, as everyone was waiting for him to bump old donnie BrashCo. I’d be worried if he did not do better.

    Do you disagree with the comment that making money by speculating is not the sign of a good elected representative? that is what was meant by his ‘success’, I’d guess…

  9. andy 9

    Kimble: where are the WMD’s, cause I am all out.

    I like the bit about having ‘worked with and filmed sharks for more than a decade’, quite compelling. You still want to stop crab guy doing his job?

    My original point is that JK should not shoot from the hip, its not his strong point, still stands! I think JK is smart and IMO its ok for a politician to say ‘i don’t know until I get the facts’, would make me consider them as a thinker instead of a shoot first type, like Cullen did today. Classic example of it!

  10. lemsip 10

    You are such an intellectual lightweight Matthew. When you are confronted with inconvenient facts it is okay to admit you may have been mistaken. To do so is a sign of maturity and intellect.

    “Do you disagree with the comment that making money by speculating is not the sign of a good elected representative?”

    I don’t accept your premise that being good at making money is a sign of a bad elected representative. I think it is neutral. However, what it does show is that John Key CAN be successful. The fact that he increased his winning electorate margin by over 10200 votes also suggests he CAN be successful and importantly, in more than making money. Hell if he wins this year he may increase his winning margin in 2011.

    What I do know Matthew is that you could never be as successful as John Key in either making money or being an MP. Nor would you ever be considered to be prime ministerial quality by over half the population in more than one randomly sampled poll. I doubt I could be either.

  11. lemsip 11

    actually let me rephrase – I don’t think you could lead a party that is judged to be government quality by over half the population in more than one randomly sampled poll. My apologies

  12. the sprout 12

    speaking of the odd use of “experts”, check this out

    http://thesproutandthebean.wordpress.com/2008/01/17/disgraceful-bias-by-the-herald-again/

    someone really should tell the Herald staff about google.

  13. mluck 13

    Gosh there are some sick fooks around here… haven’t been here before… is this sponsored by the Labour party? Sure looks like something of that kind.

  14. Kimble 14

    “Kimble: where are the WMD’s, cause I am all out.”

    The point isnt Iraq and WMDs, it is that within the first sentence he has shown that he is unreliable partisan rather than any sort of objective expert.

    If you saw a letter to the editor saying “As a vet I have worked with dogs for 25 years, and Labours policy on chipping them is simply more social engineering and manipulation from nanny-statists and socialist lickspittles.”

    Would you accept that their opinion is genuine, or would you suspect that their opinion is coloured just a little by their rabid hatred of the left wing? Mmm?

    It is Mike Bhanas obvious hatred of Key that makes me dismiss his opinion out of hand.

    “Do you disagree with the comment that making money by speculating is not the sign of a good elected representative?”

    Yes, I do. Do you know what his actual job was and what that entailed?

    I think it is obvious that what you really wanted to say was,

    “Do you disagree that making money is not the sign of a good elected representative?”

  15. andy 15

    Kimble: Well i suspect the Iraq and JK comments were to ensure the letter got in the paper, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

    my question remains unanswered:

    ‘You still want to stop crab guy doing his job?’

    based on a guy that has worked with sharks for over a decade!

    ‘It is Mike Bhanas obvious hatred of Key that makes me dismiss his opinion out of hand.’

    don’t think its obvious hatred, disdain for blaming the crab guy based on no evidence maybe.

  16. chris 16

    Bhana is a well known well traveled and much admired surfer and videographer. His comments about GWB appear to be pretty much tongue in cheek but once again Kimble and his ilk determine that if you’re anti war you must be written off as an anti American BBC watching Key hating Labour supporting collectivist pinko leftard. Never mind that the mans opinions and world view are based on experiences that most can only dream about.
    And almost a year out from elections Keys shooting from the lip is a gift to labour thats going to keep on giving.

  17. mike 17

    So the word has gone out to the labour drones to send letters in about anything, just make sure they contain phrases about the War in Iraq and John Key. Desperate and pathetic…

  18. Kimble 18

    “don’t think its obvious hatred, disdain for blaming the crab guy based on no evidence maybe.”

    Riiiight. That last line about Key actually complaining about a poor comrade trying to scratch up a living wage near his pristine, upper class beach is sooooo neutral. It is obvious that his concern is all about the poor crabber and he is just miffed the way Key has destroyed this poor guys life. Whatever.

    “And almost a year out from elections Keys shooting from the lip is a gift to labour thats going to keep on giving.”

    Yeah, people that would never have voted for National in a million years are confirming they wont vote for them in the next election. What a coup.

  19. Matthew Pilott 19

    I think it is obvious that what you really wanted to say was,

    “Do you disagree that making money is not the sign of a good elected representative?“

    Kimble, you are completely right there, believe it or not. For example, selling drugs can be quite profitable – do you think that’s the sign of a good MP? Prostitution perhaps? Selling child porn…

    Lemsip, I agree he’s doing well as an MP on the face of it. however when people talk about his ‘success’ they are generally referring to his work prior to becoming an MP. If my comment confused you because of that I’m truly sorry.

    “,“Do you disagree with the comment that making money by speculating is not the sign of a good elected representative?”

    I don’t accept your premise that being good at making money is a sign of a bad elected representative.

    For an initllectual heavyweight such as yourself, I’m surprised you’d make the mistake of falsely inverting a statement, nice false premise you tried to use there though. Did you think it would slip past a lightweight such as myself?

  20. andy 20

    Kimble: You still have not answered my question, based on John Keys Gut instinct about sharks or a guy that obviously doesn’t like john key but knows lots about sharks – ‘would You still want to stop crab guy doing his job?’

  21. lemsip 21

    Matthew my mistake – sorry – too much caffiene and little sleep. But heres the rub for you – there is evidence that John Key is a successful elected representative i.e. his constituents reelected him with a significantly larger winning margin. That significantly weakens your little argument “I would choose to base it upon his words or actions outside of his previous profession.” His current profession IS being an ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE and judging by the only firm quantitative measure available he’s successful at his job.

  22. Matthew Pilott 22

    lemsip – I won’t disagree with that, as an MP he is doing very well, based upon his polling. This will be the year to tell, won’t it?

    I guess now when people say he’s successful they aren’t just talking about his old job either, as may have been the case when he started out…

  23. Kimble 23

    ‘would You still want to stop crab guy doing his job?’

    Based on as little information as we have here? No.

    What Key said was that the ministry should be able to issue cease and desist orders if they thought it was in the interest of public saftey. A person in the ministry has confirmed that currently they cant.

    Do you know how close the crab pots are to the beach? Do you know how far away from the shore the burley bombs are being dropped? No. You dont know either of those things.

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being a woman is not a sign of a good elected representative?

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being a maori is not a sign of a good elected representative?

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being a homosexual is not a sign of a good elected representative?

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being a muslim is not a sign of a good elected representative?

    ‘would You still want to stop crab guy doing his job?’

    Based on as little information as we have here? No.

    What Key said was that the ministry should be able to issue cease and desist orders if they thought it was in the interest of public saftey. A person in the ministry has confirmed that currently they cant.

    Do you know how close the crab pots are to the beach? Do you know how far away from the shore the burley bombs are being dropped? No. You dont know either of those things.

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being a woman is not a sign of a good elected representative?

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being a maori is not a sign of a good elected representative?

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being a homosexual is not a sign of a good elected representative?

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being a muslim is not a sign of a good elected representative?

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being the leader of a group of people, being informed and knowledgeable about the current economic state of multiple inter-related countries, making decisions about the characteristics and performance of employees, being experienced in deciding between often conflicting view points from people who are both experts in their field, being in a position that often requires split-second decision making, being experienced with, and successful in, high pressure situations, being a member of a high level committee with a lot of responsibility, being in a position to make decisions with far-reaching consequences, and to do all this successfully, ARE signs of a good elected representative?

  24. Kimble 24

    Maybe this will make the decision easier for you. Imagine instead of actually DOING all that stuff, John Key was just teaching it.

  25. Matthew Pilott 25

    Matthew, do you disagree with the statement that being the leader of a group of people, being informed and knowledgeable about the current economic state of multiple inter-related countries, making decisions about the characteristics and performance of employees, being experienced in deciding between often conflicting view points from people who are both experts in their field, being in a position that often requires split-second decision making, being experienced with, and successful in, high pressure situations, being a member of a high level committee with a lot of responsibility, being in a position to make decisions with far-reaching consequences, and to do all this successfully, ARE signs of a good elected representative?

    Drug dealers do have a lot on their plates don’t they? So, when is the Medellin cartel coming to town?

  26. Kimble 26

    I think we have isolated the problem. You think that currency trading is the equivalent of drug dealing.

  27. Matthew Pilott 27

    No, the problem is the skills you mentioned could apply to the head of a criminal organisation such as the mafia or a drug cartel, equally as much as a currency trader.

    Maybe, with that realisation, you’ll start to get my point.

  28. andy 28

    Kimble said:

    ‘Based on as little information as we have here? No.’

    thanks for the answer, I am not trying to goad you, just sayin that we can make better decisions when we have the facts, and JK should know better. He has been doing this for a few years now…Oh and cullens little email of venom was just as silly!

    ‘Do you know how close the crab pots are to the beach? Do you know how far away from the shore the burley bombs are being dropped? No. You dont know either of those things.’

    yeah I do cause I was there over new years, and they are quite far away from the one place where you can safely swim at omaha. I have to say most people don’t fish around omaha itself, but further round the point toward leigh…

    Anyway its too hot i am off to the beach for a shark free swim. Cheers Kimble. 🙂

  29. Kimble 29

    No, I get that. I got it at the start. The traits of good leaders are generally the same no matter whether they run a country, a corporation, or a criminal organisation.

    So Keys history of good leadership is relevant to his suitability for the elected role he is running for.

    The only way you can discount his suitability as the leader of this country is if you object to the field in which he gained those skills.

    Where he gained his skills is relevant, as you point out, we dont want a great leader that has spent his life thus far working outside the law, as a drug lord has.

    So what is it about being involved with currency trading that makes you call into question Keys suitability for the role of leader of NZ?

    Bear in mind, he didnt actually make his entire wealth sitting in front of a terminal, trading currency. He is likely to have made the lion’s share as salary and bonuses for his work as a leader.

  30. Kimble 30

    “Anyway its too hot i am off to the beach for a shark free swim.”

    You hope it is shark free. Given that the ministry of fisheries cant stop someone laying baited crab pots around beaches where people swim, and that sharks are attracted by the things they use as bait, I guess you just have to hope that no one has decided to increase your risk of shark attack to make a few quid.

  31. Matthew Pilott 31

    Where he gained his skills is relevant, as you point out, we dont want a great leader that has spent his life thus far working outside the law, as a drug lord has.

    So what is it about being involved with currency trading that makes you call into question Keys suitability for the role of leader of NZ?

    Your first statement here sort of answers the second, in that it’s not being sucessful as a currency trader that would make a good leader. A good trader might also be a hard-as-nails obnoxious semi-alcoholic pig. It is other qualities you look for – personal traits if you will. A drug lord probably lacks the latter – they might have the same skills as teh currency trader, but also have the tendency to take out the opposition with automatic gunfire.

    So I’m saying, as I have from the start, that being a good currency trader won’t make him a good leader per se – you’ll note I didn’t say it was a bad sign either!

  32. Kimble 32

    No, being a good trader doesnt mean you will be a good leader. But Key wasnt a trader, he was a leader.

    He led a group of people who would have included some currency speculators. He was a successful leader but you are discounting this entirely because he was involved in currency trading. So what is wrong with currency trading (as an industry) that makes his leadership experience in that field invalid?

  33. merl 33

    meh. Sounds like he made an off the cuff remark that was wrong.

    So freaking what. What matters are the policy decisions that politicians make, not their slip of the tongue gaffs.

    Honestly, if a labour cabinet minister had said the same thing, would the same people who are profess dismay at John Key saying this also be dismayed then? would the same people who think it’s no big deal now also think it’s no big deal then?

    I try not to listen to people who I think hold their affiliation to a party over ‘mere facts’

    Kimble, I don’t know John Key as well as you seem to be describing him. The anecdotal evidence I have from people I do know who have met him doesn’t quite match the picture you are painting though.

  34. Matthew Pilott 34

    “making money by speculating isn’t the sign of a good leader”

    “He was a successful leader but you are discounting this entirely because he was involved in currency trading. ”

    “as I have from the start, that being a good currency trader won’t make him a good leader ”

    Shall we quit this stupid topic, you’re trying to trap me with something I never said.

  35. Kimble 35

    Matthew you just dont seem to be getting it. His job was in the Global Head of Foreign Exchange, he wasnt a trader.

    So you cant just say that being a good trader doesnt mean he would be a good leader, because he wasn’t a trader, he was a good leader!

    Are you trying to say that being a good leader doesnt have anything to do with be a good leader?

    You said, “I would choose to base it upon his words or actions outside of his previous profession.”

    Oh really? I am sure if he had awful in his previous profession you wouldn’t give him a free pass.

  36. Linda Axford 36

    Why is it that some humans think they must dominate every other living thing on the planet to suit themselves? What is wrong with some sharks enjoying a bit of ‘sunbathing’? After all, they DO live in the ocean, unlike ourselves. Maybe the warm summer and calm weather is due to, dare I say it, ‘global warming’, and we’d better get used to it.

    Here in Hawke’s Bay we have our own ‘Coruba Shark Hunt’; what an embarrassment and insult to host this despicable event, and it’s not like sharkmeat is on any menu in the Bay, in fact the pitiful sharks caught end up at the local tip.
    So, Simon Tremain (Nat. Party, Napier), since you’re into protecting the “environment” http://www.stuff.co.nz/4357598a6479.html) when will you get some balls and speak up about the pointless killing of sharks?
    I don’t see many people complaining about the amount of shark bait thrown around the oceans during the Coruba Shark Hunt.

    aladin

  37. J 37

    “So what is wrong with currency trading (as an industry) that makes his leadership experience in that field invalid?”

    So much buddy, There is a lot of honesty coming out of wall street these days and it really paints the world of traders and brokers as the absurd capital casino it is. The best traders in wall street are known as “big swinging dicks”…..that’s a term of reverse endearment , read macho no neck arseholes.

  38. J 38

    Hitler was a good leader for a while, the germans loved him in the 1930’s. ….leadership is contextual.

    The fear is Key lacks an empathy for outcomes.If that doesn’t bother you I guess you’ll vote for him. A prerequisite for modern government will be an ability to acknowledge the complexities and multiple layers involved in the adminstration of a nations citizenry. You see that coming to play in the U.S as Bush totally shoots up the rightwing playbook with an endless energy of brainless ,hopelessly unstraight shooting.Key seems to be fixated on productivity supplied by pressure. He wont feel the pressure, it’ll be us who get asked to find the x-factor undefineable surge in our all ready too crowded working week.

  39. James Kearney 39

    This link has been posted around this site a few times by various people but I think this calls for another airing to give you an idea of the kind of profession we’re talking about.

  40. Steveb 40

    John is a twit for getting involved in this but;

    Bhana’s a fucking idiot.

    Berley bombs you get from fish city weigh about three kilos each. It is possible to buy a big ten or fifteen kilo one, but they hardly ever get used, and if they do it’s mainly on an offshore sort of trip. A three kilo berley bomb lasts ages, and would do you for an afternoon’s fishing.
    Each crab pot has around a kilo of bait in it, and with around to seventy or eighty pots in the vicinity of the beach, well, even you idiots can do the math. The pots are re-baited daily. That’s around seventy kilos of berley per day, or the equivalent of at least twenty boats anchoring and berleying up off Omaha beach every day.

    Apparently Bhana’s either lying or stupid, or quite likely both, much like the authors of this piece of shit blog.

    Plus, nobody buys a big flash boat to anchor 200 yards of Omaha beach and fish.

  41. andy 41

    steveB said: “Apparently Bhana’s either lying or stupid, or quite likely both, much like the authors of this piece of shit blog.”

    very substantive argument, also very grown up. I appluad you sir! But befor you give us your amazing insights please read this:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10487650

    thats people who know sharks…So what evidence do you have that Mr Bhana is wrong on sharks???? Then what would you do restrict the crab guy or tell the swimmers to sunbathe instead. As your an obvious expert on the subject.

    “Plus, nobody buys a big flash boat to anchor 200 yards of Omaha beach and fish.”

    that is a fair statement.

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