Andrew Little in Australia

Written By: - Date published: 7:13 am, November 26th, 2015 - 62 comments
Categories: Andrew Little, australian politics, im/migration, leadership - Tags: , ,

A big policy change by Australia was never at all likely from Little’s visit. But it looks like the visit has been positive and constructive:

Andrew Little given ‘good hearing’ on Kiwi rights in Australia despite pushback

Labour leader Andrew Little says he has received a “good hearing” from Australian politicians about the rights of Kiwis living across the ditch, despite some suggesting they should “go home” if they’re not happy with the rules.

Little said the difficulties for Kiwis in obtaining Australian citizenship were discussed, along with their requirement to pay into a national disability insurance scheme that they could not make claims to.

“I think there was widespread acceptance that the idea that you pay into a scheme that you’re then disentitled to make any claims on was just wrong.”


‘No eureka moment’ from Australian govt on deportation rules – Andrew Little

Little says there was “no eureka moment” during a meeting with Australian immigration minister Peter Dutton, although he appeared willing to look at individual cases of supposed injustice.

A couple of cases we gave examples of and he expressed a willingness to look at them.”

Little also met with Australian Labor leader Bill Shorten and other opposition MPs, after earlier speaking at two Australian standing committees on the rights of expat Kiwis. Most of those he spoke to had given him “a sympathetic hearing and a willingness to discuss the underlying policy issues”.


Andrew Little and Phil Goff appear before committees in Canberra – National – NZ Herald News

In a rare move, Mr Little and Mr Goff will today appear before two committees in Canberra — the Joint Standing Committee on Migration and Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade. The primary purpose of the trip is to highlight the lack of rights for an estimated 250,000 to 350,000 Kiwis living in Australia on “non-protected” visas, including few welfare safety nets and no automatic path to permanent residency or citizenship.

After presenting to the foreign affairs committee, of which Dr Stone is a member, Mr Little said there was “very robust discussion” with clear views expressed. “But, in summary, I would say there was a broad acceptance that there is some unfairness in the way the rules are applied, and a willingness to look at that and make some refinements that has been in place since 2001.”

Mr Little and Mr Goff will this afternoon meet Opposition leader Bill Shorten and deputy leader Tanya Plibersek, Labor MPs, and Australian Immigration Minister Peter Dutton.

But partly because of Mr Little’s Australian trip, focus is now switching to the related but wider issue of all New Zealand expat rights. …

A conversation that needs to be had, well done to Little for raising the profile of these issues. Contrary to Key’s scaremongering about “making things worse” this seems to have been a positive and constructive visit.

62 comments on “Andrew Little in Australia”

  1. John Shears 1

    refreshing change to have an article on TS without a pic of or a comment from the pm.

  2. Mike Bond 2

    The Australians where being polite. Has Little and Goff achieved anything more than Key and Co.? I doubt it. This issue will continue being a problem and the few Aussies that were not polite and said that if the Kiwis don’t like it they should go home are closer to the truth and overall outcome. The Australian Labour party did themselves a disservice saying they would change things if they came into power as most Aussies dislike the Kiwis with a passion and don’t want to see the sun shine for them. Overall a wasted trip.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      How do you manage to be so sincere and credible and not at all twisted by bias?

    • Australasian 2.2

      As a dual-national, I think you are full of it ..

    • RedLogix 2.3

      The Australian Labour party did themselves a disservice saying they would change things if they came into power as most Aussies dislike the Kiwis with a passion and don’t want to see the sun shine for them.

      Interesting. In that case the Aussies won’t mind so much if we took back our banks, retail, insurance, businesses, land, all the other kiwi assets they’ve bought off us over the years. Surely we’d be doing them a favour.

      Or as a kiwi-in-australia myself – I’d just conclude you are full of it.

    • tracey 2.4

      Like Key’s in February 2015 you mean?

    • tracey 2.5

      “anything more than Key and Co.? ”

      In your world a Prime MInister who the Aussies say they admire and Turnbull wants to emulate has the same influence as the Leader of an Opposition Party… Is the sky blue in your world?

      John Key and Abbott February 2015

      “Australia and New Zealand are working together to share criminal history information for a variety of purposes, including to enable agencies from both countries, with the consent of the individual involved, to request criminal history checks for employment purposes. To this end, the Prime Ministers acknowledged the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding which will enable agencies to make informed decisions about an individual’s suitability for employment, registration and training. Prime Ministers Key and Abbott welcomed the development of a formal arrangement to share more information about trans-Tasman deportations, so that appropriate due diligence and risk management procedures can be put in place.”

      If yo read that link it almost sounds like we have amutual relationship of give and take…

      And in fairness to Turbull it’s not really Key the man he admires but the strategy employed by Key.

  3. Sabine 3

    Well done Andrew Little. It might not have brought a ‘Eureka’ moment, but then no one asked for one. All i wanted was someone to address the issue and make it known that this will be an issue in the future.
    And if the two Labour Parties can work on this in the future, than that is good. Maybe Labour can fix this. 🙂

    No so sure, why some people don’t want the ‘immigration status of Kiwis’ and the ‘deportations of Kiwis’ issues raised, and consider this a waste,……it is as if they were afraid of success, I wonder if they have gotten used to loosing, or nothing being done about anything.

  4. NZJester 4

    The Australians can be very stubborn as it took the last Labour government taking Australia to the WTO disputes tribunal to get New Zealand apples a foot in the door of the Australian market.
    Of course Key and his mates took credit for New Zealand apples getting access to Australia when Labour had done all the hard work wedging open the door for his government to walk through and even then they let Australia push back a lot befor finally stepping through.

  5. Wairua 5

    It’s good to see Andrew smiling.
    Something must have gone right in Canberra.

    • alwyn 5.1

      Yes. Those explosive devices they hung around his neck and Phil’s weren’t detonated.
      Obviously he didn’t try and get out of the public areas of Parliament in Canberra.

  6. infused 6

    Great holiday Little. You deserve it.

  7. Westiechick 7

    I heard the interview on morning report. Liked the tone. Very straight up and spin free. I think he did good.

  8. tracey 8

    And good to see that Davis has allowed Little to take over the issue and not gone all bitter and media rabid like this (below) over it

  9. Chooky 9

    Little is looking like the next Prime Minister of New Zealand

    …better than that servile jonkey Nact

  10. Magisterium 10

    Nobody in Australia other than the people in the room know that this visit even happened. No mentions on

    Nobody knows, nobody cares. This visit will not change anything. This was just a junket to improve Little and Goff’s respective media profiles at home in New Zealand.

  11. Daniel Cale 11

    As predicted, this was a taxpayer funded junket that achieved nothing. But the spin being put on it by the left is hilarious.

    • RedLogix 11.1

      It achieved at least this much Cale … finally it showed that someone does give a damn.

      You know the world is full of a great many awful problems, and this only one small one really. Us Kiwis living in Aus are still pretty fortunate people really.

      Most days I just get on with work and don’t think about it. Besides we came over here very aware of the situation and we always plan to come home one day. NZ will always be home for us.

      The vast majority of Australians we speak to about it have no idea how stupidly unfair and asymmetric the situation is. Most are pretty appalled when it’s explained to them.

      Here in Victoria the fact that NZ can be relied upon to send a strong crew of firefighters to help in the worst seasons is known by many.

      The fact that almost no families on either side of the Tasman are without connections spanning it.

      Yes we are sovereign nations, but neither are we independent of each other. The relationship is deep, enduring and it matters to BOTH.

      All we are asking for is that Australia treats NZ citizens the same as NZ treats Australians. It’s not a big ask, and at long last some NZ politician has cared enough to stick his mug over the parapet.

      So even if nothing is changes this week – I’m glad Little made the effort. Thank you.

      • Daniel Cale 11.1.1

        “finally it showed that someone does give a damn.”

        Who? Who gives a damn? I certainly don’t, and based on the opinion polls, nor do most other kiwi’s. This is a left wing beat up, by people who want to defend the old days when kiwi’s could jump off a plane in Aus and go straight to the dole cue. Those days have gone, thank goodness. Now we can face our Aussie mates knowing the days of getting a ribbing for being bludgers are over.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          You care enough to be whiny and abusive about it 😆

          • Daniel Cale

            I care enough to worry that muppet Little might harm our international reputation. Still, I shouldn’t be concerned. NZ will never elect this moron.

            • Colonial Viper

              what do you care about our “international reputation”? Because it appears you don’t value NZ taking a firm stance on being able to protect the rights of its citizens, preferring that we act like spineless pushovers, timid with cap in hand.

              That’s the real reputation you want for us.

              • Daniel Cale

                The rights of our citizens? Well perhaps you’ve forgotten that these ‘citizens’ don’t want to return to NZ. They voted with their feet a long time ago. And they are criminals to boot.

                But most of all I don’t want Andrew Little making a fool of my country. That makes me a patriot.

                • McFlock


                  A real patriot would actually be supporting the constitutional principles upon which this nation is based. Little things like the nation protecting the rights of citizens, no detention without trial, and consistent rule of law. You know, like Andrew Little is working for. It’s not just about “Goodnight kiwi”, benign wildlife and decent weather.

                  You’re many things, but “patriot” isn’t one of them.

                  • Daniel Cale

                    He’s not working for any of those things, because as a nation we aren’t breaching any constitutional principles. The people on Christmas Island are citizens in name only. They don’t have any loyalty to NZ, nor do they have any desire to live here. What Little is doing is what Labour do so well, cuddling up to criminals. Oh and did you catch this little piece The ratbags barely off the plane and into crime.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Polly wanna cracker?

                    • McFlock

                      “Citizens in name only”.

                      That name being defined by a pesky thing called “the law”. The thing you don’t care about.

                      BTW, what income support were the deportees provided with when they were dumped at the airport? What the fuck did you expect.

                      I hope we give more support to the Syrian refugees, even though they won’t be NZ citizens. It’s just cruel to abandon people in unfamilar surroundings.

                    • Madeleine

                      Excuse me but ‘sweet little missy christian girl’ isn’t going to solve a case as big as this- government cover-ups, murders, opium trafficking- believe me Lisbeth Salander is your girl.

                      She is the fucking best baby.

        • RedLogix

          This is a left wing beat up, by people who want to defend the old days when kiwi’s could jump off a plane in Aus and go straight to the dole cue

          Another myth. There was always a waiting period.

          But that won’t stop you believing in bullshit fabricated entirely from more bullshit.

          • Daniel Cale

            A very short waiting period. You can’t fight perception. In Aus we were seen as bludgers (Maori particularly), now not so much. That’s got to be good.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2

      Typical RWNJ response: It didn’t achieve anything and thus it was a waste WAAAAH

      Totally ignoring that not even trying will most definitely not change anything. Of course, they are RWNJs and don’t actually want anything to change as they’re absolutely terrified of change.

      • Daniel Cale 11.2.1

        But Draco, nothing needs changing. The Australian law is entirely sensible, and it only applies to people who are undesirables. It’s time NZ caught up, as it happens.

        • stever

          Putting what you (and others, I’ll grant you) call “undesirables” into concentration camps…the beginning of a nasty slippery slope?

          • Daniel Cale

            1. They are not concentration camps.
            2. These people have broken the law. You know, criminals.
            3. Australia is perfectly able to enact and enforce it’s own laws.
            4. That’s what they are doing.

            Once again, Australia shows the way in how to deal with ratbags. Meanwhile, in NZ, Labour…

            • RedLogix

              1. Christmas Island is widely regarded as something not too far removed from Australia’s Guantanamo Bay. You can parse all you like the meaning of ‘concentration camp’, but here in Australia there are many people very unhappy about the place.

              2. If these people are such awful criminals … why are you so keen to have them back in NZ?

              3. And so is New Zealand. OK with you if we execute all Australians living here in NZ … because we feel like it? Our country and we can enact and enforce whatever laws we like on non-citizens according to your logic

              4. And as a senior editor here I could just ban your ratbag arse right now because you annoy me.

              • Daniel Cale

                1. The people there are criminals awaiting deportation. In many cases they are dangerous individuals. I may share some reservations about the place, but to call it a concentration camp is just plain offensive.
                2. I’m not. I don’t want them anywhere near here. It’s Little and Labour standing up for them. I’m defending Australia’s right to make and implement it’s own laws.
                3. More offensive exageration. Incarceration to execution is a bow so long it shows the paucity of your argument.
                4. You mean you’d ban me because I annoy you? Because you disagree with me? I have broken no law, just exercised free speech. Think on that.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Rancid hypocrite wants human rights for themselves. Read all about it.

                • RedLogix

                  1. Technically these people are no longer ‘criminals’. They have served their time and been released. It doesn’t matter if it was an accumulation of several very minor offenses from a decade ago. Detention is mandatory. In fact you don’t even have to have been convicted of a crime to be caught up in this; all it takes is for some bureaucrat to decide you have failed a ‘character’ test.

                  2. Yes Australia can make up any old laws it pleases, but as your response at 3 demonstrates – this does not mean NZ has to remain silent about them.

                  3. Of course execution is a silly exaggeration, it would be a gross violation of human rights. But it does demonstrate that the right to impose legal consequences on foreign citizens or businesses is not unconstrained. For example, if NZ were to nationalise the big four Australian banks operating here, do you think Australia would feel obliged to say nothing? Of course not.

                  4. You may be just a guest here , and I may have all the administrative power in this situation, but I’m not going to ban you for just being annoying. That would be an abuse of my power. Think on that.

                  Or what OAB said.

        • Draco T Bastard

          You really don’t see where your logic takes us do you?

          We’ve had revolutions and wars because of your beliefs because they always, always, result in massive oppression.

  12. Nessalt 12

    ha, so the leader of the opposition here met the opposition there and got an audience. every other quote was from andrew little about how well andrew little did at managing to meet with australians. Hope he put some good work in on his tan, he’s going to need it before coming back to languish in the shade of John Key

    • Daniel Cale 12.1

      Exactly! Little is another Len Brown. Self promoting trougher.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1.1

        Call him names. Calling people names is a sign that you have won the argument. Really 😆

        • Daniel Cale

          Let me see. What has Little actually done in his life? Union organiser. List MP. Case closed.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Trusted by large groups then. You’re a bit shit at this Danny.

            • Daniel Cale

              The point I’m making is that he’s never worked in the real world. A list MP is responsible to no-one other than their party. They don’t ever put themselves up to the people. In fact the only times Little has he’s been rejected!! And union organisers are in the same boat. They are accountable to no-one, they don’t have a business to run, staff to pay, customers to please. These are positions of privilege. It’s all he can do.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                The only person being exposed by your comments is you. No-one expects right wing dimbulbs to like the leader of the Labour Party, and still the best you can do is parrot someone else’s lines.

                You can no more define the real world than you can express an original thought, Danny.

  13. aerobubble 13

    Its a simple argument to make. Raising the costs on residents, as well as making it harder to stay, and increasing the risk that they, their friend, family or worse business colleague, partner or highly skilled employee is force to leave or leaves because of the policy effecting them.

    I’m how simple is it to say, what if Abbotts’ spouse had a character flaw, how funny, how ignoble, the joke the Aussie Liberals would have been. Their PM having to commute from NZ.

    Its basically a tax on residents not levied on citizens. And serious international agreements against that. But nobody is willing to call it for its maker, Howard legacy, farcical policy making.

  14. ropata 14

    This week's cartoon by Chris Slane. Find more online: @Slanecartoons— New Zealand Listener (@nzlistener) November 26, 2015

  15. Pat 16

    I wonder if the RWNJ have considered that with the negative publicity around Kiwis rights when residing in Oz, or rather the lack of may have a chilling effect on Kiwis willingness to seek employment there during subsequent downturns…..are they in effect arguing for increasing the numbers of beneficiaries?

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