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Daily Review 25/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, September 25th, 2017 - 112 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

112 comments on “Daily Review 25/09/2017 ”

    • chris73 1.1

      Typical, cowardly behavior from some losers that didn’t get the result they wanted

      • Considering the cowardly behaviour of National Party since, well, forever why do you still vote for them?

        And, no, I don’t support the tagging. But, then, I most definitely don’t support the lying by National that has hurt so many people while they hide behind laws and self-righteousness.

  1. Pete 2

    More than 25,000 in Selwyn think that Amy Adams deserved their vote.

    Her latest actions in the Teina Pora case reaffirms why I would not not voted for her because of the type of human being she is.

    • mickysavage 2.1

      Yep the transactional cost of this will be way more than what is at stake. Give Teina his compensation. It is the least we should do.

  2. lurgee 3

    Winston’s ultimate fantasy may be realised – effectively staying out of government but forcing minority Labour and National administrations come to him to beg permission to be PM for a month or two, until he decides to give the other side a turn. And shaping policy to suit his mood – otherwise down it goes.

    • AB 3.1

      No – that would precipitate another election and NZF would get seriously punished for causing it. He’s not stupid.

      • lurgee 3.1.1

        If a government falls, does it automatically mean a general election? Or can a new government have an opportunity to form? I’m up to speed with how it works in Britain, where a government can be bundled out of office without it precipitating a new election (I long for the day Theresa May visits Queenie and utters the words, “Your majesty, I suggest you send for Mr Corbyn.”) but have to admit I’ve never bothered to find out if the same thing applies in New Zealand.

        Obviously, the ‘every couple of months’ was hyperbole, but replacing one administration with another would delight Winston – people keep telling him he’s a kingmaker, after all. Why stop at one?

        • Craig H 3.1.1.1

          No, it only causes a general election if nobody can form a government. In theory, NZ First could change support from National to Labour + Greens or vice versa, and as long as the new government had 61 votes, it would be able to continue.

    • weka 3.2

      “Winston’s ultimate fantasy may be realised – effectively staying out of government but forcing minority Labour and National administrations come to him to beg permission to be PM for a month or two, until he decides to give the other side a turn.”

      Explain how that would work? Doesn’t look constitutionally possible to me (or in any way likely).

      • lurgee 3.2.1

        Obviously the ‘couple of months’ part was hyperbole. But he could (maybe?) simply offer a sub confidence and supply deal to National – “Okay, Willy, you get to call yourself PM. But anything you want passed, you bring to me first. If I like it, I’ll back it. If you don’t like it, then you can try your luck with the Greens and Jacinda.”

        That would work – assuming English liked being abused in this way (given he served with Brash and Key, both of whom treated him like garbage, you have to suspect theirs some weird Catholic guilt and subjection going on) – until Winston tired of it and tells Ardern it is her turn: “Okay, Cinders, you get to call yourself PM. But anything you want passed, you bring to me first. If I like it, I’ll back it. If you don’t like it, then you can try your luck with Bill.”

        Obviously, it could be short circuited at any time by a snap election … But do either party have the stomach for an early poll?

        • weka 3.2.1.1

          Not quite following that. A C and S agreement and NZF is free to vote how it wants otherwise and say what they want otherwise? I don’t see the big deal with that, it’s an option for the Greens with a L/NZF govt too.

          But the bit where he tries to get National to change legislation pre-emptively in private, and presumably had an open door agreement on that, sounds very dodgy and I can’t imagine National agreeing to it.

          The bit about Peters getting tired of it and giving Ardern a go makes even less sense. He doesn’t control who forms government, the Governor General does. And they need to have confidence in the stability of any proposed govt or its back to the polls. If Peters pulled out of his C and S agreement with National for no good reason no-one would trust him (National, Labour, GG, voters). There’s lots of things I don’t like about the way he does business, but Peters isn’t stupid.

  3. Robert Guyton 4

    That’s a great photograph. Not a real laugh though.

    • JC 4.1

      Braying like an ass ..

    • weka 4.2

      Go inspired by the tree planting. Not in a position to do that currently, but did start a new compost today. I’m renting so it’s the best way to build soil here. Great post-election therapy too. Practice sustainability and resiliency.

      • WILD KATIPO 4.2.1

        A fair few years back I put in a raised garden ( 200mm) x 1 meter, by about 5-6 meters long, had about 6 beds – did it the French intensive / Irish way and companion planted . Lived out of that garden , … had 6-7 vege types all through winter. Couldn’t give the produce away fast enough in summer. Never dug once,… just masses of compost I made , constantly layered on top, planted directly into that.

        Just used pepper and garlic/ onion sprays mixed with soap for the pests.

        Those were the days….

        • weka 4.2.1.1

          Nice one. How did you make your compost?

          • WILD KATIPO 4.2.1.1.1

            I lived across from a paddock across the road with cattle, had 2 wheelbarrows and a shovel – double handed it over the fence. Also had a large fast growing hedge – that went into the shredder, when I had to regularly prune it back layered it with lawn clippings , bought in some commercial compost as a starter just for bulk. Rotated the beds , in summer, … the compost bin so hot you wouldn’t dare put your hand in it. That’s when we know the pathogens are killed. It was like cooking. Keeping that compost going was the key . 🙂

            That and a bit of lime to make the ph neutral.

  4. Eco maori 5

    Don’t panic The New Zealand First Party and Winston no what has happened to OUR country over the last 8 years or so they will do what is good for the people

    • cleangreen 5.1

      100000% Eco Maori,

      Winston at 72 is still a very inspiring man and is now needed more than ever with the ratpack of Government backstabbers, horse and rumour traders.

      Parliament is where Winston will exel this term believe it mate.

      The opposition knows this to that is why they are deserately trying to cobble Winston onto a National trainwreck Government who will implode within a year from now if the second GFC arrives and Winston would be blamed for all.

  5. Cinny 6

    Am still celebrating the election result, our country has voted for change.

    How about some of the new MP’s, Kiri Allan being one of them

    Kiri was on some of the political tv shows earlier on in the year. On seeing her on the TV, my man and I were like.. who is this woman, she’s awesome, dang she’s a labour candidate, lucky Labour 😀 Thrilled she is one of our new MP’s.

    • chris73 6.1

      I don’t think NZ has voted for change, currently National is on 46% of the vote (beat their 2008 result) and Labour/Greens can’t match what National

      Winston will do whats right for the country and it’ll be National/NZFirst, with a lot of dead rats swallowed

      • Cinny 6.1.1

        Still 15% of special votes to count.
        I’m happy with the result thus far

        Am big on education and the three parties who were/are in opposition all support the scrapping of national standards and free tertiary education. I even had the opportunity to ask Winston about it a few months back and he reinforced their views of getting rid of the failed borrowed policy known as national standards.
        As well their shared stance on Salisbury School.

        Waste of time speculating until specials come in, but it’s bloody hard not to lolololz, crikey it’s like a political fortune tellers gossip fest

        • JanM 6.1.1.1

          And hopefully support a review of the mess that early childhood education is getting into with the profit motive overtaking quality of teaching/learning

        • patricia bremner 6.1.1.2

          I’m with you Cinny. I was in education as well. Younger friends seriously considered leaving teaching for a pub!! Very unhappy at standards and BS passed off as desirable.

      • KJT 6.1.2

        54% of voters did not, vote for National.

        After lying and cheating their way into the most votes they should be in jail, not Parliament

        • chris73 6.1.2.1

          58% didn’t vote for Labour/Greens which would suggest National has a stronger mandate for forming the next government

          • KJT 6.1.2.1.1

            Polls say more prefer a Labour led Government.

            • chris73 6.1.2.1.1.1

              As I’ve heard, ad nauseam, about polls from posters on this site the only poll that counts is on election day and on election day National was more popular in 2017 then they were in 2008

              National are more popular than Labour/Greens combined, when the people of NZ ackshully had to decide, to choose, more people chose National

              If the people of NZ wanted a change they could have voted for change last Saturday but they didn’t, they gave National 46% of the vote when National are going for a fourth term

              • KJT

                Still stuck on the FPP idea of single party dictatorships eh Chris.

                We all voted for MMP, because of the damage single parties did, from 1981 to 1993.

              • As I’ve heard, ad nauseam, about polls from posters on this site the only poll that counts is on election day and on election day National was more popular in 2017 then they were in 2008

                That’s not how MMP works.

                You seem to be ignoring what the voters of NZ1st want and they seemingly want NZ1st to go with Labour/Greens.

          • WILD KATIPO 6.1.2.1.2

            Excuse me , – 58 % DID vote for change ,… the simple fact is , if they were sold on National they would’ve voted National instead of NZ First.

            Obviously they didn’t vote for National.

            Bearing in mind also , – 77% of NZ First membership want a coalition with Labour , I wouldn’t get too hasty in claiming NZ First as a win for the right if I were you.

            • chris73 6.1.2.1.2.1

              Not saying NZFirst is with National, I’m saying National gained more votes than Labour/Greens combined so National has a better mandate for forming the next government because thats what the voters want

              • weka

                So you’d like to disenfranchise NZF voters? Interesting.

              • No , that’s what NATIONAL supporters want , – 58% don’t want that.

                And that effectively puts the kiwash on any notion of some misconstrued ‘ morality’ that desperate right wingers and their media hacks are trying to attach to having the most party votes for a single given party in an MMP environment.

                The facts are , – that the combined results of Labour, Greens and NZ First give them a ruling majority , whereas Nationals do not.

                • chris73

                  “The facts are , – that the combined results of Labour, Greens and NZ First give them a ruling majority , whereas Nationals do not.”

                  That is true however as someone once said to me: ” I wouldn’t get too hasty in claiming NZ First as a win for the right if I were you.” (you do need to substitute left for the right but I’m sure you get my point)

                  So if we take NZFirst out of the equation then we’re left with more voters wanting National than Labour/Green which to me means National has the more convincing argument as to why they should form the next government

                  • Problem with that is we CANNOT take NZ First out of the equation.

                    Neither can National or Labour / Greens.

                    And there we have it.

                    MMP.

                    Not FFP.

                    And going by the results?,… more people wanted change than didn’t.

                    And if they didn’t ?… they would have voted exclusively National.

                    They didn’t.

                    • chris73

                      Well thats one way of looking at it but another is if change was wanted then, at the very least, Labour/Greens would have got more votes

                    • I think you’ll find that is the ONLY way to look at it in an MMP environment. Anything else is a perversion of the facts.

                      It wouldn’t perhaps have been if we were still under FFP.

                      But we are not.

                    • chris73

                      No we are not and for my prediction it’ll be National/NZFirst

              • I’m saying National gained more votes than Labour/Greens combined so National has a better mandate for forming the next government because thats what the voters want

                Which is a lie.

                The majority of voters don’t want National because the majority of NZ1st voters want a Labour led government.

                Which means that National has no mandate at all.

                • Hehehehe,… it takes a while for the penny to drop among some stalwarts , Draco,…

                  And if its not remembered this time round ? ,… it certainly will be in the next,.. and if I was in charge of National ?… I’d be weighing up the balance of short term aspiration as against the health and future of the longevity plan of the party’s survival at this stage…

                  Too much sugar rots the teeth.

                  Bow out gracefully , National ,… the combined vote against you has spoken.

            • Dialey 6.1.2.1.2.2

              Yes, my 80 year old neighbour voted for Winston and hopes he goes with Labour

      • millsy 6.1.3

        Well. you wont be getting a Randian paradise. Winston will put a stop to any privatisation or deregulation that National might have hidden away.

        The current charter schools will probably stay, but there will be no new ones. meaning that kids in South Auckland will grow up knowing that humans evolved from apes and the world is round. There will be no more state asset sell off, even the sneaky ones, like what happened to Solid Energy, and Learning Media, as well as Landcorp. There will be employment schemes for young people, and employers will not be able to bypass the local workforce in favour of the Chinese and Indian reserve armies of labour that they have been drawing on over the past few years.

      • cleangreen 6.1.4

        Rubbish Chris, see my coment 5.1 above on Winston and learn the truth.

  6. Trewindle 7

    Absolutely stoked with how the left have gone this election, as others have said, what’s out of the box won’t be put back. However I’m really disappointed Mojo Mathers won’t be returned, she’s done some amazing work giving a face and voice to disabled New Zealanders.

  7. adam 8

    Seeing as we are country of oligopoly, watching this might help.

    Time stamp: Just short of a half and hour.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qFX2V0Ivo4&ab_channel=DeathByPixel

  8. tracey 9

    Farmers are angry at the wrong people. First working day post election we find out Fontera ED gets 75% pay rise.

    I am sure they didnt hold that back though…

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/chief-executive-fonterra-receives-75-per-cent-pay-rise-over-8-million

    Any workers had 75% payrise in the last 9 years? 20?

    • Sabine 9.1

      nah, we only get butter the block at 6$ cause rock star economy or how to raise the money to pay the CEO. 🙂

    • They must fantacise about NZ workers being in some kind of servile stupor like Baldric ,… unfortunately they are not stupid and the illusion exists only inside their heads… and in the pages of their favorite ideology’s handbook ,… that of neo liberalism.

      Nasty shock for them on the not too distant horizon.

      Blackadder: Baldrick’s cunning plan – YouTube
      Video for baldric you tube▶ 0:21

  9. Bill 10

    You can decide for yourself who is addressing who….

  10. greg 11

    do we really want to be government ???
    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/08/30/hous-a30.html
    sobering article from Australia are we better to walk away and let national wear the collapse and the fall out????

    • Only if we want to hear more of their bullshit justifications ,… why let them have that privilege of co opting their right wing media?

      By contrast, let the Left show them in their full light as ETHELRED THE UNREADY.

      Let them bear the full brunt of their disgusting short term avarice filled vision. Take power , and lay at the foot of blame their indiscretions. Let them feel the full wrath of their betrayal of the citizens of this country.

      Nine years they had to insulate the citizens of this country from the fall out of global crisis,… yet they did nothing.

      Hence therefore , .. so should be their reward.

      Let them bask in their failures, let them wear it as a mantle around their necks.

      And never again , .. will they be able to accuse Labour or the Left of their avarice and indiscretions.

      Let them wear it as a crown.

  11. Ed 12

    Bill English calling Winston Peters a maverick ‘not very smart’, NZ First leader says…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11926394

  12. Carolyn_nth 13

    Some interesting stats on voting at Unis this election – need to scroll down comments for some explanations.
    eg:

    From the polling stations at individual Uni campuses. So it misses students who voted elsewhere, and can’t tell who is a student or staff.

    …and some voters living in the immediate neighbourhood may also have voted on campuses!

    For averages I got:
    Labour 39.1% (41.72%)
    National 31.03% (26.29%)
    Greens 19.64% (21.91%)
    *adjusted for amount of votes per uni in brackets

    • Incognito 13.1

      Smart people, those Uni voters 😉

    • Craig H 13.2

      Also doesn’t (yet) include specials, which will have been enrol + vote (mostly), so will likely go higher in L/G favour. Nice to see Canty doing well!

      Looking at it, it’s missing the polytechs – any volunteers? http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/voting-place-statistics.html then check the PDFs of the relevant electorates.

      Here are the votes for Ara (formerly CPIT) here in Christchurch:

      City Campus:
      Chch Central Total – 502 votes; G – 98; L – 214; N – 137
      Chch East Total – 208 votes; G – 23; L – 109; N – 58
      Ilam Total – 204 votes; G – 23; L – 76; N – 77
      Port Hills Total – 339 votes; G – 70; L – 144; N – 90
      Selwyn Total – 142 votes; G – 14; L – 60; N – 58
      Waimakariri Total – 125 votes; G – 10; L – 53; N – 48
      Wigram Total – 211 votes; G – 23; L – 86; N – 82
      Te Tai Tonga Total – 109 votes; G – 20; L – 63; N – 17

      Woolston Campus:
      Chch Central Total – 431 votes; G – 56; L – 198; N – 117
      Chch East Total – 27 votes; G – 0; L – 15; N – 7
      Ilam Total – 12 votes; G – 2; L – 3; N – 6
      Port Hills Total – 414 votes; G – 53; L – 204; N – 101
      Selwyn Total – 19 votes; G – 2; L – 6; N – 9
      Waimakariri Total – 18 votes; G – 0; L – 9; N – 8
      Wigram Total – 12 votes; G – 1; L – 7; N – 4
      Te Tai Tonga Total – 39 votes; G – 2; L – 26; N – 5

      Overall total – 2812 votes; G – 397 (14.12%); L – 1273 (45.27%); N – 824 (29.3%); Other – 318 (11.31%).

      I’m not really expecting 60% of specials to L/G, but it would be amazing.

    • Pat 14.1

      article is somewhat premature…

      • The Chairman 14.1.1

        Not really, unless you’re expecting a substantial change (most are expecting one or two seats to change) due to the special votes.

        • Pat 14.1.1.1

          its a measure of how the polls performed…and we dont have the final result to judge them by…irrespective of whether theres a significant change or not

          • The Chairman 14.1.1.1.1

            No, we don’t have the final result. But the article acknowledges that.

            And unless there is substantial change (which is unlikely) they’re not as bad as some have claimed.

            • Pat 14.1.1.1.1.1

              therefore its pointless, the accuracy can only be judged when the result is known….what can be commented on however is the turnout…one has to wonder what it will take for the over 20% of disengaged to voice their opinion (or even a proportion of them)

              • The Chairman

                “Therefore its pointless”

                At this stage, not totally. The election has been held, the provisional result is out and there is expected to be little change.

                Direct democracy is said to encourage participation, thus deserves consideration.

                • Pat

                  “….and there is expected to be little change”

                  not sure where you draw that conclusion from….it may not change the fact Winston has balance of power but there is considerable potential for it to change party voter support levels….that which is (supposedly) predicted by advance polls.

  13. Whispering Kate 15

    I have been studying people I know – friends and acquaintences and their voting preferences. Its not like the old days when people didn’t discuss what their preferences were. One thing that really resonates with me is that people who vote right wing generally are conservative, like the status quo, have boring interiors in their homes, an absence of books, artwork on the walls and general clutter about the place and do not have a lot to offer in conversations at restaurant tables. Some of these people have homes which look for motel or hotel rooms. Prefer to look at sport on Sky for evening’s entertainment and most certainly will always have an excuse for the way the Government is acting out with hospitals, schools and WINZ for example. In other words will not enter into any sort of “opening up the mind” to alternatives or have the ability to debate these topics. A closed mind.

    Left wingers are more keen for change, have the guts to agree make the “huge decisions” which are what need to be done to make our society a better place. Books there are by the truck loads and clutter abounds as well. They usually have done “out of the way” things on their OE and generally have exciting things to offer in a conversation. They may have comfortable lives and jobs as well but they have that joy of anticipation for change and do not seem to be fearful of change. Just my observations but for sure there is depth in left wingers and not such a money oriented interest in their lives.

    Is there some different side of the brain that makes us what we are – be interesting if some academic study was done on his phenonema.

    • Craig H 15.1

      There is much academic study out of the US on the general subject, and it basically agrees with what you’ve said here. And yes, MRIs show different parts of the brain engage for RW compared to LW.

    • ianmac 15.2

      History shows that major innovations were created while Labour was in power.
      History shows that National made few innovations while in power. National tended to just tinker round the edges to modify detrimentally to wages and conditions for wage and salary earners.

    • Anne 15.3

      I agree with you Whispering Kate. Something else I have noticed about right wingers I know: they are phenomenally ignorant about current affairs and political subjects. They are not necessarily unintelligent but they have no interest in keeping themselves informed about issues unless it affects them. But mention house prices and related property matters and they are all well read experts.

      Lefties are the other way around.

    • Frida 15.4

      @WKate…totally agree!

    • RedLogix 15.5

      @WK

      A perceptive comment. What you’re writing about here is what really interests me about politics … why is it that voting has so little to do with rationality and so very driven by emotion, tribalism and sheer short-sighted folly ?

      Why are some people willing to embrace new ideas and others so very resistant to them? There is a deep neuro-biology driving all this; aspects of how our brain is working beyond our immediate awareness.

      Yet emphatically I still believe people can change. It just takes confidence, courage and hope.

    • Whispering Kate ,… magnificent !

      It is all in the cognitive perception ,… conservatism ,… whether it is the fearful , doubtful aspect that plagued the Generals of the battle of the Somme, or the ego that drove General Robert E Lee to wage a full frontal attack uphill against entrenched Yankee troops with mechanized Gatling guns and artillery ,… … or the goad that prompted the cold war ,… there is a common element,… the paralyzing inability to action !!!

      It is a human condition,… based on fear.

      Now,… if we were to exploit that fear , we would apply a bold general , such as Sun Tsu. Or General George ‘ Blood and Guts ‘ Patton.

      We would take the initiative.

      If there is one thing absent from the New Zealand Left it is boldness.

      That uncompromising , unapologetic spirit that General Patton expressed ,…
      ………………………………….

      ” Have taken Trier with two divisions. What do you want me to do? Give it back?”

      Reply to a message from General Dwight Eisenhower to bypass the German city of Trier because it would take four divisions to capture it (2 March 1945), as quoted in the Introduction to War as I Knew it (1947) by George Smith Patton, Jr., with Paul Donal Harkins, p. 20
      ………………………………….

      When Jacinda Adern said ” we are in the fight of our lives”,…

      She needed to have Blood and Guts Patton in mind.

      George S. Patton – Wikiquote
      https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_S._Patton

    • halfcrown 15.7

      A bit late only just seen it, but excellent post Kate. The follow-on comments were also good especially Annes @15.3
      We have a right-wing acquaintance who will discuss Rugby and Master Chef all day every day and has a theory a vote for the left is the start of the slippery slope to communism. When we told this person, this summer we were planning to go to Farewell Spit photographing some of the bird life there, the response was, WHERE IS IT, WHAT IS IT! Surely I thought that would have been one of the basic geography lessons of New Zealand. and I am sure the geography of NZ would have been taught in schools.
      I think his questions confirms your theory Kate.

  14. RedLogix 16

    A lucid explanation of Trump … and what we’re up against:

    http://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/nfl-stars-are-falling-into-donald-trumps-trap/news-story/5c4ea843402408249c7966945b634ab2

    Essentially Trump is the world’s most successful troll.

    • Sabine 16.1

      you think it has nothing to do with Puerto Rico drowning, North Korea calling him an old fool or dotard :), his son in law using a private email account for offical business, the repeal and replace with nothing ACA debacle, no just him trolling some black folks calling them son of bitches?

      yeah, i guess you could call that a troll.

      • RedLogix 16.1.1

        Yeah … everything about Trump is appalling … except for how successful he has been in mobilising his support base with fear, lies and misdirection. National just did a watered down version of it on us and I think it’s worthwhile to think about that.

        • Sabine 16.1.1.1

          no, i think it is worthwhile calling them out on it.
          You can not live your live on fear and demonetization of others, eventually you run out of others.

          so instead of calling him the most successful troll you could call him a President who is such a racist that he is not coming to the aid of the Puerto Ricans, who are US Citizens, who have been without electricity, water for a few days now, and who are currently under water and will not have electricity back for maybe a full half to a year.
          I know that is boring, so much more fun discussing the fears of the white working class and other assorted bullshit, cause clearly the fears of the non white working class matter little.

          Lets all just pander to fear. Yei.
          And in NZ, Blinglish did not pander to fear, he pandered to greed. Simple as that.
          And again, when that boat sinks, the poor have the least to loose. It is the rich that are going to eat crow and it is them who will not like it.

          • RedLogix 16.1.1.1.1

            Greed is nothing more than a ‘fear of loss’; so it’s pretty closely linked really.

            I’m not endorsing Trump or National at all; just pointing to the fact that despite all their numerous human and moral deficiencies .. they keep winning elections. Unless we are willing to closely look at how they do this; we the left will keep losing them.

            • Sabine 16.1.1.1.1.1

              again, i do not see National as a winner in this country. In MMP there are no true winners unless they can form stable coalitions and sadly National has killed everyone it ever worked with, so clearly National should have had more reason to ‘win bigly’ in order to manage its fourth term on its on and now it is a lame duck.
              The US – and i am one who considered Clinton the smaller of two evils – will most likely see either a civil war or will see Trump removed by hook or by crook within a year. I am going with martial law first, then some civil unrest, then President Pence – whom i actually consider worse then Trump. Not sure if Trump believes he won, he does not behave like a winner to be honest.

              But to diminish his dehumanizing of people as an act of troll is what allows him to keep on going. He is not trolling, he is inciting violence. He is past trolling.

              And no i don’t think that the farmers and landowners of NZ have fear of loss, they just have a fear of being forced to pay their fair share and finally behave as if they were citizens instead of “landlords”. Greed is not the same as fear.

              • RedLogix

                OK if you just want to score points for the fun of it … you win. You’re right I’m wrong. Happy?

                • Sabine

                  It is not that you are right or i am right, it is about how we now frame the disconnect that is being spread.

                  The US can no more go back to the 1850s where everyone knew their place – especially people of colour and women, no matter how hateful Trump will be then we can pretend that we can sell our land to the highest bidder to the point where we end up needing a passport internally to get from point a to point b because everything is fenced off for ‘cows’, or mining, or road building.

                  This is not about scoring points. this is about how do we address is. Call Trump a troll? He is not, he is the fucking President of the US with the biggest weaponry at his disposal and Troops in over 150 countries. That is some troll.

                  Blinglish is not sowing fear he is sowing greed, vote me and you get 20$ per week, or no taxes and all the water for free. Greed.

                  Once we can name it, how do we counter it. Just saying he is the biggest troll of them all is not countering.

                  So from where i am standing WE, you , i and humpty dumpty next door are the real losers. Feel better now?

                  • Que sera sera… whatever will be , will be…

                    Like FUCK.

                    The Left are deflecting and already licking their wounds and conceding defeat.

                    The hell with that.

                    Grab your balls and get on top of the situation and show some fight, stop wallowing in self pity and apportioning blame. We’ve got a future to fight for the next generation coming through. No more of this self pitying bullshit.

                    So put on your helmets and get on with the program of winning.

                    FFS.

    • joe90 16.2

      A lucid explanation of Trump … and what we’re up against:

      Well, an Australian would make excuses.
      /

      Four years later at the 1972 Summer Olympics that took place in Munich, Germany, Norman wasn’t part of the Australian sprinters team, despite having run qualifying times for the 200 meters thirteen times and the 100 meters five times.

      Norman left competitive athletics behind after this disappointment, continuing to run at the amatuer level.

      Back in the change-resisting, whitewashed Australia he was treated like an outsider, his family outcast, and work impossible to find. For a time he worked as a gym teacher, continuing to struggle against inequalities as a trade unionist and occasionally working in a butcher shop. An injury caused Norman to contract gangrene which led to issues with depression and alcoholism.

      As John Carlos said, “If we were getting beat up, Peter was facing an entire country and suffering alone.” For years Norman had only one chance to save himself: he was invited to condemn his co-athletes, John Carlos and Tommie Smith’s gesture in exchange for a pardon from the system that ostracized him.

      A pardon that would have allowed him to find a stable job through the Australian Olympic Committee and be part of the organization of the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. Norman never gave in and never condemned the choice of the two Americans.

      He was the greatest Australian sprinter in history and the holder of the 200 meter record, yet he wasn’t even invited to the Olympics in Sydney. It was the American Olympic Committee, that once they learned of this news asked him to join their group and invited him to Olympic champion Michael Johnson’s birthday party, for whom Peter Norman was a role model and a hero.

      http://griotmag.com/en/white-man-in-that-photo/

      • WILD KATIPO 16.2.1

        WTF has Trump got to do with it?

        This is New Zealand and we’ve got to focus here – not how many thousand kilometers away in a land that has nothing to do with us.

        Fuck Trump and fuck the National party.

        This is the here and now we are talking.

        Future generations rely on how we conduct ourselves right here , and right now.

        • Eco maori 16.2.1.1

          Yes you are correct about fuck trump.
          But joe90 link tell of how a neo liberals western government can hammer a great indigenous PERSON and the local media will not tell his stories
          And Norman was the BEST in the World at 100 200 mtr sprints he should have been celebrated by OUR WORLD as Husan Bolt is . EVERYONE IN THE WORLD should have Know who Norman is
          ONE of the greatest Australian Indigenous and the World s Greatest sport Stars .We all should have been talking about him.
          This is how the systems oppress The people of the land they won’t let the people have leaders or role model s to help raise there Wairua /self worth and all the people suffer oppressive .
          FUCK THIS DUM ASS SYSTEM because Ours is oppressing me who a broke ass father half caste PROUD MAORI And the systems are not use to dealing with people like US.

        • joe90 16.2.1.2

          WTF has Trump got to do with it?

          I said absolutely nothing about tRump but let me spell it out –

          A very concerned white Australian, whose own Australia made a pariah of Peter Norman, a man who dared stand alongside men who were voicing the very same opinions as those taking a knee in 2017, writes DNFTT. objecting about what someone who hates you says only encourages people who hate you, so best you STFU, he’s only trolling you.

          Future generations rely on how we conduct ourselves right here , and right now.

          Barking mad spider bites self, delusions ensue,

          //

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