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Daily review 29/07/2020

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, July 29th, 2020 - No comments
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Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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  1. Cricklewood 1

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/warriors/122288198/two-warriors-players-banned-from-returning-to-new-zealand-after-nrl-season

    I sincerely hope someone in govt fixes this, there must be some form of discretion availble.

    • solkta 1.1

      Ummm, NO.

      • weka 1.1.1

        even if they're not allowed to return to their home countries?

        • solkta 1.1.1.1

          Doesn't say that in the article. But answer would still be no. There is so many heartbreak stories out there of families divided but these two should be let in because rugby? Give me a break.

          • weka 1.1.1.1.1

            not because of rugby, fuck that, but because NZ has been their home. If they can return to Fiji and Tonga, I'd probably feel differently about it, it's not clear from the article. Also, if they'd been told in May they wouldn't be let back in then they could have made a choice.

            • solkta 1.1.1.1.1.1

              According to the UN Declaration on Human Rights they have an inalienable human right to go home. I would support the NZ gummint putting on the utmost pressure for those rights to be upheld.

              edit: I think the article is being deliberately vague as it is a pro-pro-sport article.

              • weka

                I don't know if Tonga or Fiji have closed their borders to everyone because of covid, not unreasonable if they have all things considered.

                • weka

                  Just checked, Tonga opened its borders in June, restricted numbers and quarantine. So I suspect you are right and the sports people are overegging it a bit. He might have to hang out in Australia for a while until allow back to Tonga. Still think there is a fairness issue in telling people it's ok to go and then later telling them they can't come back, but this is the world we live in now, people need to think about what's really important.

                  • solkta

                    Still think there is a fairness issue in telling people it's ok to go and then later telling them they can't come back

                    It no say in the article that they were told that they would be able to come back.

                    It does say that they "left New Zealand with the other Warriors players in May" and that one of them tried to come home after a shoulder injury "few months ago" – ie in MAY! It sounds like they just didn't check the rules. Cry me a river.

                    Edit: no one has been told that they can’t leave NZ. The telling them it was ok to go could have only come from the Aussie gummint.

                    • weka

                      Despite only taking on the portfolio last week, Immigration Minister Kris Faafoi told Stuff he is aware “there are known issues with current settings” and has “sought advice from officials”.

                      There's something not right. If it weren't for covid, they've have been able to come back, because they're legal to live in NZ. Obviously things changed with covid, but I'm guessing that in May, the deal made for the team was that they could travel as per normal with some restrictions because of covid. But the legal to return issue probably wasn't looked at because it was such a new situation for everyone.

                    • solkta

                      That is probably just politician for i don't want to upset the thugbians seven weeks from an election. These two were here on work visas and as i say above there are many people in their situation as outlined in this Herald article from 21 May:

                      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12333855

                      The article quotes the Minister:

                      "I understand this is a very difficult situation for anyone stuck outside of New Zealand. Border closure has been an essential part of the sacrifices we have all made to keep people in New Zealand safe.

                      "The issue of migrant workers stuck outside the country is very much on our minds. I am currently awaiting advice on using the new powers established under the Immigration Act and will then make decisions on potential visa changes that may assist them."

                      At the moment our quarantine facilities are at capacity and can't keep up with the numbers of returning citizens and residents. These people come first. We should not be making exceptions for people because rugby.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.1.2

              not because of rugby, fuck that, but because NZ has been their home.

              NZ is not their home. If it was they would have become citizens.

              They haven't.

              • weka

                you have to have lived in NZ continuously for 5 years to apply for citizenship. They've been here for less than that.

                Lots of NZers have residency not citizenship including people that have lived here for decades. You might want them to have the latter but that's not a requirement to be a NZer for the purposes of this conversation.

                • Craig H

                  If they were residents, they would be permitted to return as they would have the right to enter under the Immigration Act.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  you have to have lived in NZ continuously for 5 years to apply for citizenship. They've been here for less than that.

                  And that means that they get to bypass the rules that apply to everyone else?

                  How is that justifiable?

                  Lots of NZers have residency not citizenship including people that have lived here for decades.

                  1. Those people are not NZers. To be a NZer requires that you hold citizenship.
                  2. NZ is stupid and leaves the country open from attack through ease of staying here, getting voting rights and yet still being a non-NZer.

                  I don't have a problem with immigrants but I do have a problem who come here, get residence and then get a say in our society without having the decency to actually become one of us.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.2

      Although both players have lived in New Zealand for numerous years and Ravutaumada has represented the country, they are not New Zealand citizens, with Katoa from Tonga and Ravutaumada Fijian.

      There is some form of discretion going on. They're not NZers and are not being given the rights of NZers – as is proper.

      They have had years to become NZ citizens if they chose – they have chosen not to do so. So we can be rightfully assured that their right not to become a NZ citizens are also being fully realised.

      Just because they're sports people should not excuse them from the rules that everyone else has to abide by.

      • weka 1.2.1

        dunno, seems remarkably similar to Australia kicking Kiwis out.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1

          The Kiwis aren't Australians so they, of course, don't have the rights of Australians.

          Of course, I do wish that the Australians would just tell us that Kiwis are no longer welcome in Oz so that we can simply get rid of the legislation, on both sides, that the Australians no longer want.

          • weka 1.2.1.1.1

            does that mean you support Australia kicking out people that were raised there, have lived there for many years and are now adults? Who don't have family and friends or a job in NZ but do in Oz?

            • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.1.1

              does that mean you support Australia kicking out people that were raised there, have lived there for many years and are now adults?

              Yes. I do, as a matter of fact, support Australia making its own decisions.

              Those people, like all other immigrants, have the option of becoming Australians.

  2. Muttonbird 2

    Soper at it again. Wants the taxpayer to pay for quarantining rich kids coming home for Christmas.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12352060

    • ScottGN 2.1

      It’s taking some people an awfully long time to understand just how fundamentally covid has changed things eh?

      • Muttonbird 2.1.1

        Soper should be nodding appreciatively at everything this government does in protecting him, a person at very high risk of dying from Covid-19.

    • AB 2.2

      Soper seems to be letting personal circumstances get in the way of his judgment – "there will be no Christmas get-together for my family,"

      I guess we all do that. Generally it's a good idea to try and recognise it when it happens, and keep one's mouth shut to avoid saying something stupid. Most of us are fortunate enough not to have a completely undeserved platform in a major newspaper. So for us, silence is a necessity, rather than an option, under these circumstances.

  3. swordfish 3

  4. bwaghorn 4

    What a waste of time the new charge for incoming travelers.

    Why didnt labour even bother . ?

    Just makes them look silly.

    My preference would have been $200 to $ 500 a week for all btw .

    • weka 4.1

      "Why didnt labour even bother . ?"

      To disincentivise people from travelling unnecessarily. This is a good thing. It's not about taxing citizens who are overseas, it's about letting people have the freedom to travel but making them pay for it when it's unnecessary. Coming home is necessary.

      • gsays 4.1.1

        To be fair it is also a smart political move.

        To take one of the few opposition (and NZ1st) ideas that got traction, and enact it, takes the wind out of the Nat's sails.

        Doesn't hurt that it has The Greens bottom line as a criteria for payment.

        Win, win, win.

    • The Al1en 4.2

      I don't agree! Charging returning citizens and permanent residents who are coming back to live here is wrong.

      Charging those coming back short term, and those going on holiday despite knowing the quarantine is in place and costing taxpayers, seems to strike the right compromise between fairness and personal responsibility.

      • RedBaronCV 4.2.1

        Plenty of people are doing it hard- I'd actually ask for a token contribution from all- enough to cover the food maybe.

        And I'd be tougher and charge permanent residents if they were not ordinarily resident here at the lock down. They have other choices so why are we paying for possible bolthole and welfare tourists who lack commitment to NZ. I'd even charge – if it were possible but it's probably not – those who are using an NZ passport as a second or third passport and who haven't bothered to be ordinarily resident here.

        • greywarshark 4.2.1.1

          It will amount to big biccys if most of the Kiwis overseas decide to return. And isn't it nice that we've kept the place in good order while they were away. And Covid-free. It hasn't been easy but we decided to get behind the system after some long meetings and checking on the rest of the world and WHO. It just hasn't happened by accident. We'll do what we can for them. They in turn should do what they can for us.

          Now that it's a real place at the end of the rainbow for lucky Kiwis who have been able to do OE or have had good jobs overseas, I am sure they will be ready to put into the pot to support their country. And our welfare system should support them with a loan for the isolation charge, as well as helping them going forward.

    • Pat 4.3

      While not exactly as I would support its signalling is pretty well right although it does open the gov up to criticism especially on the projected savings but then no regime (that was workable) was ever going to raise more than a token amount of the costs of the system.

      A compromise that has more positives than negatives.

  5. ScottGN 5

    Was that three National MP’s valedictories today? Only about 12 to go.

  6. ScottGN 6

    Question Time today. First question TLoTO to the PM. Should be compulsory viewing for all those idiots who thought that Collins would wipe the floor with Ardern. She just isn’t at the same grade. Collins is halfway through the six QTs she has available before the House rises. She’s been very ordinary so far.
    https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/

    • aom 6.1

      It's been the same at each question time so far Scott. Not only that, just about all the Cabinet responses have shown the opposition to be ill prepared and in some cases, downright inept.

  7. observer 7

    Very moving valedictory speech by Sarah Dowie. And kinder to many Labour MPs than to the media (even gave Lees-Galloway a shout out, good on her). I'd recommend watching it, especially to any deluded apologists for JLR.

  8. John 8

    The nat party bill boards with Judy and Gerry remind me of that English tv comedy show "Keeping up apperances"

    Hyacinth Bucket and her brow beaten but ever loyal husband. All that's missing is the Orovida white pearls.

  9. newsense 9

    This seems like significant, if slow, work:

    Housing density development rights written into law

    Interesting to see what other work is being done around safe family recreation areas and building governance bodies to make these things genuinely attractive to low and middle income families.

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