What gender critical feminists are talking about today. Police make a statement warning the public about a violent criminal at large in Auckland, reporting they are a women and neglecting to tell the public they are a trans woman ie male. Most of the MSM I looked at also reported a woman being sought (NZH was the exception).
let me explain the rules, because you appear not to understand them.
If you quote, you always have to link.
If you don't quote, but refer to current affairs, or make a claim of fact, you may be asked to provide a link. If you are asked by an author or mod, then you pretty much have to provide evidence for what you are saying, but sometimes we just ask because it will make the conversation flow better.
In this case, my point was partly that the MSM weren't reporting the person is a TW apart from the NZH. A very easy search, not a big drama. When people make claims that are controversial and not easy to parse and back up, the onus is on the person making the claim.
You asked for evidence, which was entirely reasonable, I would have provided a link if Joe hadn't.
I'll take it from that that you don't accept the rules or moderation here. Take a day off. Trolling mods and disrespecting moderation is one of the easier bans.
I wonder what the general public who saw women being assaulted, threatened and harrassed at Albert Park for wanting to say it is not possible to change your sex and women don't have penises ,will think when they read this article about a dangerous criminal who identifies as a woman, but is a man?
This is a man. A male offender.
Is he part of Marama Davidson wonderful trans family????
How long these sensible measures will be allowed after 15/6/23 is anyone's guess. I am sure that the trans community will unnecessarily tie up the service by trying to argue against sensible policies that protect women against transwomen. These policies also keep transwomen safe.
NZ Corrections are very sensible on this and have been careful to house violent transwomen away from women. But I think the potential exists for all sorts of organisation harassing to take place.
But if commonsense flies out the window…who knows.
Brian Easton speaking sense (again) after a lifetime of research.
"It is no secret that I am a supporter of the liberal welfare state with its objective of enabling everyone to be able to participate in and belong to their society. What is often overlooked is that assumes our sort of society is founded on the functioning family. Children in poorly functioning families are likely to become adults who are less healthy, more prone to crime, have poorer work productivity, and more likely to be parents in dysfunctional families themselves. There are many causes of dysfunctionality, but we may be confident that poverty is a contributor adding to the pressures and that improvements in income will often improve performance. Thus the Richardson-Shipley redesign undermined many families with ongoing consequences for the education and training, the healthcare and justice systems, and for the overall wellbeing of the community, their children and the future.
Noticeably in the recent public wrangle over the education curriculum no attention has been given to the central role of families in a child’s education. Rather, we once more looked for short-term bandages in the education system for long-term problems among families."
But…
"I doubt that Labour understood this implication of what it was proposing. In the thirty years, the political economy has changed, with the rich using their financial power to shape the public conversation. The rich could not stop the aspirations of child poverty reduction being legislated, but they have limited the ability to really reduce child poverty because it would involve higher tax rates and their paying more tax."
The solution (or improvement) may not be simple but it is evident.
Yep – I've been saying (uselessly and ineffectually) for years that:
you can't expect the education system to resolve serious problems that arise from outside it
that Bill English's "social investment" was a cruel pretense at trying to solve this problem – that it's essentially a more sophisticated form of blame the victim, with a gloss of science to hide its prejudices
In Oz a woman has been forced to leave a surf club because she would not shower in her swim suit, nor unclothe or put on clothes while covered in a towel.
Apparently there is a natural fear of naked older women among girls, or it’s taught to them by their parents.
I think if you bothered to do any research this type of ruling has been part of a way to meet the incursion of fully intact males into women's spaces you know the 'transwomen are real women' crowd
Everyone has to cover up.
Blame the new system.
Blame the despots (making rules for what is said to be .005% of the population feels pretty despotic to me) and the No Debate/self ID crowd.
this type of ruling has been part of a way to meet the incursion of fully intact males into women's spaces
I'd like to see you provide information to support that claim in direct relation to the linked instance, because in the news piece it says it was female on female complaints.
“We’re aware the facilities are inadequate,” he told the BBC. “But [the club] received complaints from some junior members about being intimidated and uncomfortable.”
"Apparently there is a natural fear of naked older women among girls, or it’s taught to them by their parents."
Why "natural"? Surely "unjustified" is more accurate?
Also why do you think its natural – or taught to them by their parents?
Have you considered that this new policy may be a ham-fisted and clumsy attempt to avoid having naked men with identities in a room with naked children?
The No Nudity policy may be an attempt to comply with pressure to allow men into female-sex spaces, and avoid what they see as the main issue – exhibitionism and voyeurism.
Someone else may have the patience to work through NSW legislation, but I found it vague:
As for the reported "complaints from some junior members about being intimidated and uncomfortable.":
1. Deal with intimidatory acts effectively – intimidation can occur while the aggressor is nude, so this is not effective;
2. If their discomfort is to be witness to the results of time and gravity on a female body – well, too bad. The phrase: "Pull your wooly heads in" – comes to mind.
Complaints are not the gold card, justifiable compliants are.
Any complaints should be welcomed and permitted. It then should undergo a process to see whether it is justified, and if it is, that determines what actions should be taken and when.
e. ensure female identifying persons do not enter male change rooms, and male identifying persons do not enter female change rooms;"
That reads as a removal of single-sex provision.
Giving weight to the considerations Shanreagh and I put forward:
I think if you bothered to do any research this type of ruling has been part of a way to meet the incursion of fully intact males into women's spaces you know the 'transwomen are real women' crowd
Everyone has to cover up.
Have you considered that this new policy may be a ham-fisted and clumsy attempt to avoid having naked men with identities in a room with naked children?
The No Nudity policy may be an attempt to comply with pressure to allow men into female-sex spaces, and avoid what they see as the main issue – exhibitionism and voyeurism.
It actually means trans people are already excluded from their preferred changing room, so the nudity ban isn't because of them.
Again, it was female on female complaints over her nudity that made the person quit the club. Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with chicks with dicks.
"female identifying persons do not enter male change rooms".
Not clear from your link.
A clear directive would be:
"female persons do not enter male change rooms".
The inclusion of "identifying" makes this interpretation of "female identifying persons" possible:
Females (who are assumed to identify as females if they haven't stated otherwise) AND males who identify as females.
“Again, it was female on female complaints over her nudity that made the person quit the club. Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with chicks with dicks.”
That was the excuse given for the new directive. If true, then that complaint should have been dismissed.
A question for you, The Al1en:
Do you think that single-SEX provisions should be maintained in this situation?
ensure female identifying persons do not enter male change rooms, and male identifying persons do not enter female change rooms
An honest debater would admit the person who quit the club did so after complaints from other females, and that it had absolutely fuck all to do with trans women or men.
Will you admit, after reading the rules, the person who quit the club did so after complaints from other females, and that it had absolutely fuck all to do with trans women or men?
No, my honesty ensures that I continue to say that I think its a case of when reality hits those that promote an ideology.
Parents of young girls who chant "TWAW", now have the possibility of having their daughters naked in a room with men.
Complaints may have been made as a workaround to facing the reality of their position.
The complaints – in a truly single-SEX changing room – are ridiculous.
But we have seen individuals, organisations, institutions, governments be ridiculous in their contortions to avoid accusations of transphobia, so I would neither claim that this is the truth, nor discard that possibility.
But can you at least answer clearly, to the question you've ignored:
Do you think that single-SEX provisions should be maintained in this situation?
So that's a complete rejection of the facts in the case highlighted. I can't ever see that as a stable foundation for honest debate. At least you're consistent.
"So that's a complete rejection of the facts in the case highlighted."
No, it's not. It's a wider consideration of what might be occurring, given the limited facts available in the article. (And your link). It would be presumptive to make a definitive conclusion on such limited information.
"I can't ever see that as a stable foundation for honest debate. At least you're consistent."
Yes/No
I'm all good to leave it here. Anyone reading can consider both our points, and see who answers who without caveat or redirection.
Unless I have anything relevant to the article to add, I'll leave this thread to you.
Of course you'll leave it there, despite the "limited facts" in the 23 page policy pdf containing "such limited information", you point in this case is irreconcilable with reality.
the person who quit the club did so after complaints from other females, and that it had absolutely fuck all to do with trans women or men
Yep, let's trust the honest readership to work out whose redirecting.
Because self id is a thing protected by law from the 15/6/23 and "The inclusion of "identifying" makes this interpretation of "female identifying persons" possible" is already negated.
Oh well The Allen we know you stand against women, women's rights and the issue of free speech for women.
By implication you must support the overriding of PP event by people exercising the thug's veto.
Is that correct?
And so you are happy to find your mother, sister or daughter in a toilet or changing room with an intact male and are happy that your mother, sister or daughter may face the possibility of not having fairness in their chosen sport.
These are the things that probably will happen come 15/6/23.
There is policy being developed I think around women’s sex based rights to safe spaces and presumably you wouldn’t support this?
Fifty years ago I visited Sydney for the first time and despite the boozy lewdness, budgie smugglers, and the occasional topless bather, a tacit no nudity rule on beaches existed as an acknowledgement that pervs and rock spiders could and would be present. And a kicking was likely to be dished up to any male should they attempt to photograph someone they didn't know.
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The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
Christopher Luxon: hurdles The little man from National jumps hurdles in his sleep. He’s quite good at it in his dreams and even though the reality doesn’t quite match up you have to give him credit for getting up every morning and crashing into the very first hurdle of the ...
Comment: It was a good two hours into the conversation when Tyrone Marks raised the most basic of questions when I first spoke to him in 2017. “They didn’t explain the things they did to me. They never told me why. And they still haven’t. There’s no explanation for it. ...
Madeleine Chapman rounds out Death Week on The Spinoff with a final recommendation. You can read all of our Death Week coverage here. Nothing forces you to reflect on your life and relationships quite like proximity to death. For those whose nearest and dearest have died, there are reasonably obvious ...
Whitney Greene takes us through her life in television, including the TV character she’d like to plan a funeral for and her cow lung catastrophe on The Traitors NZ. “If the phone rings, I have to answer it,” Whitney Greene from The Traitors NZ warns as we begin our My ...
Maddie Ballard reviews the debut essay collection of Pōneke writer Flora Feltham.In ‘The Raw Material’, the longest essay in Flora Feltham’s dazzling debut collection, the author heads out for a run after hours of weaving and sees the world turn to textile. “Pounding along the Parade, I saw the ...
Andy Christiansen, one half of the experimental rock-pop duo TRiPS, shares the tunes inspiring the band’s perfect weekend and new release. “Good speakers, good food, good music, no distractions”: that’s all you need to enjoy the psychedelic stylings of TRiPS, a new band formed by Fly My Pretties’ Barnaby Weir ...
Celebrating our quadrennial opportunity to become experts in a bunch of sports we never normally watch.The games of the XXXIII Olympiad are upon us. Paris will host this year’s showcase of sporting and athletic prowess, which means some late-night and early-morning viewing for us in Aotearoa.But what sports ...
The photograph is striking and beautiful, but also disturbing – a reminder that my love for John was often entangled in shame.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.In the spring of 1980, in Dunedin, shortly before his death, someone took a photograph ...
Get to know Babushka, our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Babu’s humans, Jo and Isabel, for their support. Dog name: Babushka (Babu for short) Age: 2Breed: Border Collie X poodleIf rescued, ...
Pacific Media Watch A Lebanese photojournalist who was severely wounded during an Israeli air strike in south Lebanon carried the Olympic torch in Paris this week in honour of her peers who have been wounded and killed in the field — especially in Gaza and Lebanon. Christina Assi of Agence ...
The first report in a five-part web series focused on the 15th Triennial Conference of Pacific Women taking place in the Marshall Islands this week.SPECIAL REPORT:By Netani Rika in Majuro Women continue to fight for justice 70 years after the first nuclear tests by the United States caused ...
Christopher Luxon has joined with Australia and Canada's leaders in voicing support for US President Joe Biden's ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The 2022 election brought the “teal wave” into parliament. The next election will test whether teals, who occupy what were Liberal seats, and other independents can maintain their momentum. Joining us on the Podcast ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Musgrave, Senior lecturer in Pharmacology, University of Adelaide Pixavri/Shutterstock A major Federal Court class action has been dismissed this week after Justice Michael Lee ruled there was not enough evidence to prove the weedkiller Roundup causes cancer. Plaintiff Kelvin ...
In The Week in Politics: politicians have to decide what to do about child abuse, Health NZ is booked in for major surgery and Darleen Tana returns. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University Mainstream media are surprisingly muted at the prospect of the world’s most powerful nation being led for the first time by a woman – specifically a woman of colour, Vice President Kamala ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca Bennett, PhD Student, Associate Research Fellow, Deakin University Last week, a drone delivery company called Wing (owned by Google’s parent company, Alphabet) started operating in Melbourne. Some 250,000 residents in parts of the city’s eastern suburbs can now order food from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Foo, Lecturer, Physiotherapy, Monash University pikselstock/Shutterstock In the next 40 years in Australia, it’s predicted the number of Australians aged 65 and over will more than double, while the number of people aged 85 and over will more than triple. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katrina Grant, Research Associate, Power Institute for Arts and Visual Culture, University of Sydney Jonas Åkerström’s 1790 work, Session of the Accademia dell’Arcadia on August 17 1788.Nationalmuseum/Cecilia Heisser Ever wondered whether you’d have a better chance at winning an Olympic gold ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Jones, Program Lead, Food Governance, George Institute for Global Health wavebreakmedia/Shutterstock On Thursday, Australian and New Zealand food ministers at state, federal and national levels met to thrash out what’s next for health star ratings on packaged foods. Now, after ...
The Abuse in Care report found many Pacific survivors lost their connections to their culture and language, resulting in trauma that has been carried from generation to generation. ...
In the regulatory review, ECC intends to suggest that ERO focus on curriculum delivery reviews rather than the Ministry, because it’s not efficient or effective to have two agencies with radically different approaches climbing over each other. ...
Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori invites the current government to work in partnership with them to develop a pathway forward, including the development of a parallel pathway and meaningful policy and strategy for Kura Kaupapa Māori ...
If you haven’t started watching yet, Tara Ward begs you to reconsider. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. In the world of New Zealand reality television, we have many gems in our crown. There’s the delicious second season of the Celebrity Treasure ...
A new poem by Fiona Kidman. The clothes of the dead I did not keep my mother’s furry red beret for long nor the stringy scarves that adorned the necks of my aunts, although I have kept tag ends of gold, the rings and trinkets they wore, the brooches no ...
The government’s announcement that it will re-open the foreshore and seabed controversy by changing the rules on recognising centuries-old Māori customary title for a third time goes against the rule of law and New Zealand values,” Mr Tipa says. ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Lioness by Emily Perkins (Bloomsbury, $25) Roarrrr! Perkins’ brilliant, award-winning, Marian-Keyes anointed, darkly funny, long ...
The 2004 Act vested ownership of the foreshore and seabed in the Crown, extinguishing any Māori claims to ownership and causing widespread outrage and protests among Māori communities. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Antje Deckert, Associate Professor (Criminology), Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Despite the connection between institutional harm and gang membership made clear in this week’s mammoth royal commission abuse-in care report, the government seems unlikely to soften its “get tough on ...
From Lewis Clareburt in the swimming to the start of the rowing – the first seven days of Paris 2024 promise to be big for New Zealand. There are few events that bring the country together quite like an Olympic Games. Nothing quite matches the excitement of getting up in ...
Groundbreaking local science just showed up in the most surprising of places: the season finale of The Kardashians. In the season five finale of The Kardashians last night, several members of the family gathered together in one of their signature empty, cream-coloured rooms to hear test results that had been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Saikal, Emeritus professor of Middle Eastern and Central Asian Studies, Australian National University The Middle East is on the brink of a possibly devastating regional war, with hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah reaching an extremely dangerous level. Washington has engaged in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Elizabeth Eades, Rheumatologist, Monash University Lupus is an inflammatory autoimmune illness, where the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks itself. Lupus can affect virtually any part of the body, although it most commonly affects the skin, joints and kidneys. The symptoms ...
A law firm that specialises in working with survivors of abuse in State care is disappointed that the Government fails to recognise that its boot camps can be directly compared to previous boot camps from the 1990s and 2000s. ...
Dying is a natural part of life, like updating your Wof or seeing your hairdresser, but without the word-of-mouth recs that help guarantee a good service. What if we changed that? Dying Reviews received by The Spinoff have had the names of organisations redacted while Hospice NZ collects further data. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland Mike Lewinski/Flickr, CC BY On any clear night, if you gaze skywards long enough, chances are you’ll see a meteor streaking through the sky. Some nights, however, are better than others. At ...
Despite having no bars or other designated spaces for lesbians, Auckland boasts a small but mighty lesbian museum. So how did it get here? The past 18 months has brought increasing hostility towards the queer community across Aotearoa. Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull’s anti-trans rally in Tamaki Makaurau last March led to a ...
Poneke Antifascist Coalition has invited Wellingtonians to stand in solidarity with the Kanak people at 12pm today outside the French Embassy in Wellington. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Layton, Visiting Fellow, Strategic Studies, Griffith University Drones are the signature technology of the Ukraine war. A few miniature aircraft designs were used in the war’s early days, but an incredible array of drones have now evolved. There are different types, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Slee, Associate Professor, Clinical Academic Neurologist, Flinders University Francisco Gonzelez/Unsplash Migraine is many things, but one thing it’s not is “just a headache”. “Migraine” comes from the Greek word “hemicrania”, referring to the common experience of migraine being predominantly ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lee White, Senior Lecturer and Horizon Fellow, School of Social and Political Sciences, University of Sydney Australia was slow to introduce minimum building standards for energy efficiency. The Nationwide House Energy Rating Scheme (NatHERS) only came into force in 2003. Older homes ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Steven Sherwood, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Climate Change Research Centre, UNSW Sydney The past century of human-induced warming has increased rainfall variability over 75% of the Earth’s land area – particularly over Australia, Europe and eastern North America, new research shows. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Heynen, Program Coordinator, Sustainable Energy, The University of Queensland A temporary stadium in the Champ-de-Mars, ParisEkaterina Pokrovsky/Shutterstock As Paris prepares to host the Olympic and Paralympic Games, the sustainability of the event is coming under scrutiny. The organisers have promoted ...
A night of karaoke and community in a pub that feels like a memory. You’d barely even notice it, unless you knew to look. Tucked away behind a liquor store on busy Constable Street is the capital’s last great pub. Newtown Sports Bar is an emblem of the pub culture ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Wright, Professor in Marine Geology, University of Canterbury Louise Corcoran/Getty Images The decline in the number of doctoral candidates at New Zealand universities is a worrying sign for the country’s effort to build a knowledge-based economy. Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laurie Berg, Associate Professor, University of Technology Sydney defotoberg/Shutterstock Migrant worker exploitation is entrenched in workplaces across Australia. Tragically, a deep fear of immigration consequences means most unlawful employer conduct goes unreported. On Wednesday, however, the government officially launched a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vaughan Cruickshank, Senior Lecturer in Health and Physical Education, University of Tasmania Paris is about to host its third summer Olympics. While we don’t yet know what the legacy of this year’s games will be, let’s take the opportunity to reflect on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hugh Breakey, Deputy Director, Institute for Ethics, Governance & Law, Griffith University In the wake of the assassination attempt on former US President Donald Trump, there were calls from bothsides of US politics, as well as internationally, to reduce the brutal, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Keith Rathbone, Senior Lecturer, Modern European History and Sports History, Macquarie University Two high-profile assaults on Australians in Paris have raised concerns about security ahead of the Olympic Games. On Saturday evening, a young woman was allegedly sexually assaulted by a ...
Dying is inevitable and, so it seems, is it costing a lot, writes Stewart Sowman-Lund in today’s extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here.The cost of dying ...
The government took Joyce Harris's first baby and sent her off to a girls' home. Half a century on - and out of oceans of hurt - it asked her to be a mother figure. ...
It’s the deadliest fictional town in the country, but which death has been the most bonkers? Alex Casey looks back at 10 seasons of The Brokenwood Mysteries to find out. Warning: The following ranking story contains famous New Zealand actors appearing to be dead (not alive). The Spinoff has been ...
Water cremation is the biggest thing to happen to the death industry in the last 100 years. Alex Casey meets the people trying to bring it to Aotearoa. Through a set of mirrored doors down the industrial end of Christchurch’s St Asaph Street, death is getting a new lease on ...
Opinion: New Health NZ commissioner Lester Levy is authorised to assume operational leadership – chief executive Margie Apa is effectively relegated to his operational deputy The post All-powerful Levy is feudal baron of a $28b fiefdom appeared first on Newsroom. ...
What gender critical feminists are talking about this week,
https://twitter.com/shut_the_fridge/status/1641668270754500609
https://twitter.com/shut_the_fridge/status/1641669303425732608
What gender critical feminists are talking about today. Police make a statement warning the public about a violent criminal at large in Auckland, reporting they are a women and neglecting to tell the public they are a trans woman ie male. Most of the MSM I looked at also reported a woman being sought (NZH was the exception).
https://twitter.com/wekatweets/status/1641703054516027393
For those of us not on Twitter can you supply where it is reported as fact this person is Trans. (Other than a twitter thread)
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/wanted-south-auckland-74-year-old-bronwyn-warwick-convicted-of-murder-kidnap-robbery-in-past-30-years/Z6XRGG662JA5BLZSQVCX5THT2E/
Thank you. Would have been nice if that link had been supplied first.
Joe linked below.
I mentioned at the bottom of my comment that NZH has covered it,
Then you should've linked to it. You’re the first to ban people for not linking.
let me explain the rules, because you appear not to understand them.
If you quote, you always have to link.
If you don't quote, but refer to current affairs, or make a claim of fact, you may be asked to provide a link. If you are asked by an author or mod, then you pretty much have to provide evidence for what you are saying, but sometimes we just ask because it will make the conversation flow better.
In this case, my point was partly that the MSM weren't reporting the person is a TW apart from the NZH. A very easy search, not a big drama. When people make claims that are controversial and not easy to parse and back up, the onus is on the person making the claim.
You asked for evidence, which was entirely reasonable, I would have provided a link if Joe hadn't.
Please don't tell authors/mods what to do.
Yes dear.
I'll take it from that that you don't accept the rules or moderation here. Take a day off. Trolling mods and disrespecting moderation is one of the easier bans.
Respect
noun
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
verb
admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
0 for fucking 0, love.
Keep on swinging and missing. Big swing, bigger miss. lol
I wonder what the general public who saw women being assaulted, threatened and harrassed at Albert Park for wanting to say it is not possible to change your sex and women don't have penises ,will think when they read this article about a dangerous criminal who identifies as a woman, but is a man?
This is a man. A male offender.
Is he part of Marama Davidson wonderful trans family????
All dangerous, criminal, female killers of children, none of them trans, none with a cock and balls.
Plenty more on google.
Rose West.
Mary Bell.
Sharon Carr.
Marybeth Tinning.
Susan Smith.
Diane Staudte.
Amber Pasztor.
Diane Downs.
Andrea Yates.
Christy Sheats.
Megan Huntsman.
Carola Arnau.
Jessica Edens.
Sarah Lynn Kreuger.
Sarah Lynn Kreuger.
It’s coming knowledge that women can be murderers. What’s your point?
??????
I saw this person and my spidey senses immediately told me it was a male dressed in women's clothes.
Other people may be taken in.
I raised with TV but have had no response yet.
NZ Corrections is able to make policy that transwomen are able to be housed away from women as part of their prison management policies
https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/policy_and_legislation/Prison-Operations-Manual/Induction/I.10-Management-of-transgender-prisoners
How long these sensible measures will be allowed after 15/6/23 is anyone's guess. I am sure that the trans community will unnecessarily tie up the service by trying to argue against sensible policies that protect women against transwomen. These policies also keep transwomen safe.
Another Nicola Sturgeon moment coming?
I am not sure.
NZ Corrections are very sensible on this and have been careful to house violent transwomen away from women. But I think the potential exists for all sorts of organisation harassing to take place.
But if commonsense flies out the window…who knows.
Space holder.
Brian Easton speaking sense (again) after a lifetime of research.
"It is no secret that I am a supporter of the liberal welfare state with its objective of enabling everyone to be able to participate in and belong to their society. What is often overlooked is that assumes our sort of society is founded on the functioning family. Children in poorly functioning families are likely to become adults who are less healthy, more prone to crime, have poorer work productivity, and more likely to be parents in dysfunctional families themselves. There are many causes of dysfunctionality, but we may be confident that poverty is a contributor adding to the pressures and that improvements in income will often improve performance. Thus the Richardson-Shipley redesign undermined many families with ongoing consequences for the education and training, the healthcare and justice systems, and for the overall wellbeing of the community, their children and the future.
Noticeably in the recent public wrangle over the education curriculum no attention has been given to the central role of families in a child’s education. Rather, we once more looked for short-term bandages in the education system for long-term problems among families."
But…
"I doubt that Labour understood this implication of what it was proposing. In the thirty years, the political economy has changed, with the rich using their financial power to shape the public conversation. The rich could not stop the aspirations of child poverty reduction being legislated, but they have limited the ability to really reduce child poverty because it would involve higher tax rates and their paying more tax."
The solution (or improvement) may not be simple but it is evident.
link please.
Apologies
https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/why-are-we-making-so-little-progress-towards-reducing-child-poverty
Yep – I've been saying (uselessly and ineffectually) for years that:
In Oz a woman has been forced to leave a surf club because she would not shower in her swim suit, nor unclothe or put on clothes while covered in a towel.
Apparently there is a natural fear of naked older women among girls, or it’s taught to them by their parents.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-65133860
Witches? Crones? Hags?
heh.
I think if you bothered to do any research this type of ruling has been part of a way to meet the incursion of fully intact males into women's spaces you know the 'transwomen are real women' crowd
Everyone has to cover up.
Blame the new system.
Blame the despots (making rules for what is said to be .005% of the population feels pretty despotic to me) and the No Debate/self ID crowd.
Really. Is it required here? Why is it a story to the BBC, if it's common in the UK too?
I'd like to see you provide information to support that claim in direct relation to the linked instance, because in the news piece it says it was female on female complaints.
“We’re aware the facilities are inadequate,” he told the BBC. “But [the club] received complaints from some junior members about being intimidated and uncomfortable.”
"Apparently there is a natural fear of naked older women among girls, or it’s taught to them by their parents."
Why "natural"? Surely "unjustified" is more accurate?
Also why do you think its natural – or taught to them by their parents?
Have you considered that this new policy may be a ham-fisted and clumsy attempt to avoid having naked men with identities in a room with naked children?
The No Nudity policy may be an attempt to comply with pressure to allow men into female-sex spaces, and avoid what they see as the main issue – exhibitionism and voyeurism.
Someone else may have the patience to work through NSW legislation, but I found it vague:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/num_act/taoaaa1996n22541.pdf
As for the reported "complaints from some junior members about being intimidated and uncomfortable.":
1. Deal with intimidatory acts effectively – intimidation can occur while the aggressor is nude, so this is not effective;
2. If their discomfort is to be witness to the results of time and gravity on a female body – well, too bad. The phrase: "Pull your wooly heads in" – comes to mind.
Complaints are not the gold card, justifiable compliants are.
Perhaps consider the importance of the word, or. Children do not make the complaints, the parents do.
Once again:
"Complaints are not the gold card, justifiable complaints are."
No. It's either nature, or nurture.
And under the rules of the clubs, any complaint is justified.
But surely, only those who support those rules would make a complaint?
I don't understand what you are saying.
Any complaints should be welcomed and permitted. It then should undergo a process to see whether it is justified, and if it is, that determines what actions should be taken and when.
It's apparently an initiative of surf life saving clubs on the NSW central coast to protect children from adult nudity.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/terrigal-towel-dance-nudity-ban-in-central-coast-change-rooms-20230330-p5cww1.html
Yep, and kiwi big pharma is going to make a killing on anti inflammatory knee jerk cream.
SURF LIFE SAVING AUSTRALIA POLICY
7.10 Change room arrangements
e. ensure female identifying persons do not enter male change rooms, and male identifying persons do not enter female change rooms;
"7.10 Change room arrangements
e. ensure female identifying persons do not enter male change rooms, and male identifying persons do not enter female change rooms;"
That reads as a removal of single-sex provision.
Giving weight to the considerations Shanreagh and I put forward:
It actually means trans people are already excluded from their preferred changing room, so the nudity ban isn't because of them.
Again, it was female on female complaints over her nudity that made the person quit the club. Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with chicks with dicks.
"female identifying persons do not enter male change rooms".
Not clear from your link.
A clear directive would be:
"female persons do not enter male change rooms".
The inclusion of "identifying" makes this interpretation of "female identifying persons" possible:
Females (who are assumed to identify as females if they haven't stated otherwise) AND males who identify as females.
“Again, it was female on female complaints over her nudity that made the person quit the club. Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with chicks with dicks.”
That was the excuse given for the new directive. If true, then that complaint should have been dismissed.
A question for you, The Al1en:
Do you think that single-SEX provisions should be maintained in this situation?
The rule is perfectly clear as it is.
ensure female identifying persons do not enter male change rooms, and male identifying persons do not enter female change rooms
An honest debater would admit the person who quit the club did so after complaints from other females, and that it had absolutely fuck all to do with trans women or men.
You seem determined to just disagree. So, we can disagree on how clear that directive is.
But can you at least answer clearly, to the question you've ignored:
Do you think that single-SEX provisions should be maintained in this situation?
I absolutely disagree with you, yes.
Are you an honest debater?
Will you admit, after reading the rules, the person who quit the club did so after complaints from other females, and that it had absolutely fuck all to do with trans women or men?
No, my honesty ensures that I continue to say that I think its a case of when reality hits those that promote an ideology.
Parents of young girls who chant "TWAW", now have the possibility of having their daughters naked in a room with men.
Complaints may have been made as a workaround to facing the reality of their position.
The complaints – in a truly single-SEX changing room – are ridiculous.
But we have seen individuals, organisations, institutions, governments be ridiculous in their contortions to avoid accusations of transphobia, so I would neither claim that this is the truth, nor discard that possibility.
But can you at least answer clearly, to the question you've ignored:
Do you think that single-SEX provisions should be maintained in this situation?
So that's a complete rejection of the facts in the case highlighted. I can't ever see that as a stable foundation for honest debate. At least you're consistent.
Yes/No
@The Al1en
"So that's a complete rejection of the facts in the case highlighted."
No, it's not. It's a wider consideration of what might be occurring, given the limited facts available in the article. (And your link). It would be presumptive to make a definitive conclusion on such limited information.
"I can't ever see that as a stable foundation for honest debate. At least you're consistent."
Yes/No
I'm all good to leave it here. Anyone reading can consider both our points, and see who answers who without caveat or redirection.
Unless I have anything relevant to the article to add, I'll leave this thread to you.![yes yes](https://cdn2.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/ark-wysiwyg-comment-editor/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/thumbs_up.png?x42494)
Of course you'll leave it there, despite the "limited facts" in the 23 page policy pdf containing "such limited information", you point in this case is irreconcilable with reality.
the person who quit the club did so after complaints from other females, and that it had absolutely fuck all to do with trans women or men
Yep, let's trust the honest readership to work out whose redirecting.
But what is the objection to leaving out the word 'identifying' in the phrase that Molly instanced.
‘A clear directive would be:
“female persons do not enter male change rooms”.”
and clearly vice versa
“male persons do not enter female change rooms”.”
Do you agree with adult males being allowed into female toilets, changing rooms etc?
Forget the Aussie case. Just answer the question.
Because self id is a thing protected by law from the 15/6/23 and "The inclusion of "identifying" makes this interpretation of "female identifying persons" possible" is already negated.
Oh well The Allen we know you stand against women, women's rights and the issue of free speech for women.
By implication you must support the overriding of PP event by people exercising the thug's veto.
Is that correct?
And so you are happy to find your mother, sister or daughter in a toilet or changing room with an intact male and are happy that your mother, sister or daughter may face the possibility of not having fairness in their chosen sport.
These are the things that probably will happen come 15/6/23.
There is policy being developed I think around women’s sex based rights to safe spaces and presumably you wouldn’t support this?
Or would you?
It's my honest held opinion you know absolutely nothing about me but that's never stopped people making things up before.
Under The Al1en handle, I've posted my thoughts on the protest and counter all over the internet. You are most welcome to search for them.
Edit: Posted before your edit.
link for your quote please. This is a requirement for all copy and pastes.
https://sls.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Policy-6.04-Child-Safe.pdf
lol
Fifty years ago I visited Sydney for the first time and despite the boozy lewdness, budgie smugglers, and the occasional topless bather, a tacit no nudity rule on beaches existed as an acknowledgement that pervs and rock spiders could and would be present. And a kicking was likely to be dished up to any male should they attempt to photograph someone they didn't know.