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Fact checkin’ round 2

Written By: - Date published: 7:27 pm, November 3rd, 2008 - 42 comments
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It’s really good to see Clark taking Key to task on his lies this time:

Key: productivity has halved under Labour.
Lie. The same lie he made last time

Key: interest rates have doubled under Labour.
Lie. Which he also said last time, and Clark called him on it this time.

Key is also relying on the OECD ranking as the measure of economic performance, which it clearly isn’t. Compare growth rates, not order. Rankings don’t show the size of the gaps. We, and the countries with similar rankings in the OECD are all closing on those at higher rankings.

Key: National introduced the basis of Working for Families
Lie: The child benefit has been around since the early 1980s, but Working for Families is a Labour policy, which National has vehemently opposed.

The worst aspect of this debate is John Campbell. I actually enjoyed seeing the leaders talk directly to each other but Campbell hadn’t heard his own voice in too long, so he felt he had to interject. He questions are too long and convoluted. OK, now he’s getting better.

Key: record numbers leaving for Australia
Lie. the current level of emigration is well-within the normal cycle

Key: the government wants to limit the water through your showerhead
Lie. That was never government policy

Key: the Government is banning lightbulbs
Lie. the Government is raising the energy efficiency standards on lightbulbs. Most incandescent bulbs can’t reach the new standards but that’s not an argument for not raising the standards. Should we keep energy efficiency standards the same on fridges because old fridge designs can’t match them?

Key: Bill English has charm
Lie.

Key: Peters has distracted and would distract the Government
Lie. The Government is a $60billion organisation employing 250,000 people. The Cabinet is 26 strong. The idea that it is paralysed by a the fact that the media wants to talk about Peters all the time is absurd. Key can’t point to any actual instance of policy work being delayed by minister being busy on Peters.

42 comments on “Fact checkin’ round 2”

  1. Carol 1

    I think John Campbell is doing OK. He’s stopping the debate from dissolving into a shouting match, letting each leader have a say, and asking them some tough questions.

  2. IrishBill 2

    The textpoll is arse as well. TV3 also seems to have dropped the livestream at 7:30 and my TV doesn’t get channel 3. TVNZ ran their whole debate streaming. What’s the point of ultrafast broadband if the private sector can’t bloody well use the medium properly!

    Cap: “knowing waiting”. Too bloody right.

  3. Carol 3

    Agree the txt poll is very bad. Should not be alllowed in a serious election debate,

  4. IrishBill 4

    And from what I saw Helen was clearly winning and Campbell was doing a good job of cutting through some of the spin.

  5. gobsmacked 5

    Campbell has ADD. As soon as they get into a topic, and are about to get past the prepared lines into the substance … he moves on to another topic.

    Bloody infuriating.

  6. forgetaboutthelastone 6

    campbell is bollix – he called john key “mate” – is that appropriate? no straight answers from key as usual – why is he allowed to get away with that?

  7. Carol 7

    Key didn’t give any answer of substance on Nanny state coming thru his door.

  8. gobsmacked 8

    Clark should have learned by now, if the moderator / interviewer won’t do the job, she has to. For example, tonight Key has said 1) he wasn’t in government in the ’90’s and 2) said “we” introduced WFF under Shipley.

    So fire a question straight at Key: “Do you stand by Bill English and the last National government, or do you reject it?”

    Get your sound bites and killer lines in, you can’t win on substance in this dumbed-down format.

  9. IrishBill 9

    Well TV3 may not be able to make a live stream work but I can certainly fashion an outside aerial with a coathanger. That’ll be that kiwi ingenuity.

    Did Key just say English has “charm”?

  10. randal 10

    keys would say anything!

  11. Carol 11

    key keeps saying that record number stat, and no-one calls him on it not being a record if linked to population.

  12. Chris G 12

    Key: Repeating rehearsed lines and the same stats, yawn. Itll sway the ill informed young voters, sadly.

    Clark: Been trying to jump on those lies but Campbell gets in the way. She should have jumped on him when Key pissed up big time talking about a fresh direction when Campbell listed his top 12 on the list who are all the usual suspects.

    Listening to my flatmates misogynist and shallow comments… infuriating.

  13. Carol 13

    I tried to txt a vote & got a “could not fetch content” reply.

  14. Quoth the Raven 14

    That panel Campbell has got are a bunch of sorry fuckwits, I can hardly stand to watch their fuckwittery.

  15. forgetaboutthelastone 15

    here come the analysts – bring on the wankers. Its a competition of who can be the most cynical – one woman looks deeply depressed.

  16. Carol 16

    Oh, now Campbell says the error messges are wrong. I’d already tried sending my vote again. Gonna be a really acurate poll then

  17. higherstandard 17

    What a waste of an hour.

    All it served to do was remind me of why I don’t watch Campbell.

  18. Chris G 18

    Im glad i stopped watching before the analysts came on. judging by the previous posts. I was already fuming watching the debate

  19. Lol, my flat most vehement National voter (only moderately political, but still) has just told me that he doesn’t like Key because he is rich.

  20. Alan 20

    Clark smoked Key. Hands down.

    The panel is absolutely dreadful. And what’s the deal with that STUPID stock trading game?

  21. Tane 21

    That ipredict stuff is hiliarous – there were like four trades and they’re trying to figure out who won the debate from it. Tragic.

  22. GordonF 22

    Actually Jenny McManus just nailed Key. Linda Clark also said that it looked as if Key had no hunger for the role of PM and Clark did, wiping the floor with him.
    Downside is the promotion of ipredict, along the same line as text polls:-(

  23. Carol 23

    I disagree that there is no prescription for dealing with the financial crisis. Labour has a prescription.

    The US election shouldn’t be compared to ours. If our leaders did all the showmanship stuff, Kiwis would reject it.

  24. Carol 24

    Yeah. Then they all come out and say Key will be PM! wtf?!

  25. Chris G 25

    Cos I’m surrounded by only Uni students, this obviously isnt a representative or valid inference of the general populous of nat supporters. But I’m going to give it to you anyway.

    The Male Uni student Nat supporter: say things like ‘Look at John hes just such a nice guy’ , ‘Helens like a man’, ‘Im sick of Labour’….. Very rarely do I hear any substantial reasons as to why they will vote national.

    When I quizzed one flatmate why hes voting national: ‘I dont like Sue Bradford and Sue Kedgley’ That was all I could get out of him.

    I might get grilled for this comment, but its gods honest truth when looking at the people who surround me – a bunch of rich white young guys.

  26. The panel was pathetic, and going over the the ‘live market’ for ipredict was a joke. There had been five trades during the debate, basically a flat.

    But that quote from Jenni McManus, that was gold.

  27. Carol 27

    Can we vote put in a vote to TV3 on how good the panel were?

  28. Tane 28

    Watched the debate with two Tory voters, a Labourite and a Greenie. All five of us gave the debate to Clark.

  29. randal 29

    yeah I had to turn it off I’m afraid
    i could hear all the whingeing from Keys from the other room and campbell was oozing out of the video all acroos my living room floor like a big heap of slime from chungas revenge
    that man had too many cheese sandwhiches before the show started
    blerrrrk

  30. gobsmacked 30

    Small footnote:

    A blogger – fact-checking, in real time.

    A TV channel, with four “experts” and half an hour of post-debate airtime – not one fact checked, not one assertion queried. Not a single one.

    That’s NZ’s media, in a nutshell.

  31. Quoth the Raven 31

    gobsmacked – You’ve absolutely hit the nail on the head.

  32. randal 32

    hey …the media area a pack of smug self satisfied greassy little noo noo heads who spend most of the time looking in the mirror and the rest of the time vibrating passionateley while they dream about their vision where they have actually learned to read!

  33. randal 33

    hah… and my blog has just been gluggle searched for misdemeanours about the one who was rude to nicole kidman
    now thats kid stuff to the max
    and the rest are just the same
    the clearasil crowd masquerading as grown ups

    captcha- caesars morn- yes helen is going to cross the rubicon….you betcha

  34. Matthew Pilott 34

    That panel was the biggest load of gobshite I’ve seen. Some ‘tard closest to JC was wondering why she didn’t get all the answers to the world’s economic crisis, and a 50-frkin’-point plan as to what they were going to do about it. Hate to say it honey, but it ain’t always the economy, and you’re stupid.

  35. randal 35

    fact checking?
    hmmmm
    wonder if the herald and the dimopost have their frontpages laid out already
    hehehehehehe
    they are going to wake up with a bad hangover after thisone!

  36. mike 36

    “when looking at the people who surround me – a bunch of rich white young guys.”

    Why bring skin colour into it – are you racist or just bitter?

  37. Alexandra 37

    Chris G, I absolutely understand what you are saying. I find that most Nat supporters arent able to present any reasonable rationale for their political preference. I believe that is because of family associations and ideology rather than for anything meaningful that they can put their finger on. It must be hard for many national voters to accept that the policies they support will result in tangible hardship for many people. Its easy to presume that those who are better off are so because they either work harder and are some how more deserving than others. They are too selfish and shallow to consider that their wealth is a direct result of the hard work of the low paid. That is why you find as I do, that rich white guys, all too often engage in personalised criticisms. generally directed at women MP’s.

  38. Chris G 38

    Certainely neither..Considering I’m in the aforementioned category, no I’m not bitter. And if your suggesting I’m a ‘tall-poppy-cutter-hate-on-rich-people-commy’ well your wrong doubly.

    Plus if thats all you could derive from my comment, clearly I made some good points. Maybe you’ve heard similar comments flowing out of some mouths. Cheers pal.

  39. Chris G 39

    Alexandra,

    Great comment, couldn’t agree more. It seems our experiences echo.

    I find it a sad indictment on a chunk of our voting populous who seem to be voting because their misogynistic or dont like the way someone looks. Apparently it doesnt stop when they get older either… surf whaleO or kiwiblog for a few mins to find plenty of evidence of that.

  40. Carol 40

    I find it a sad indictment on a chunk of our voting populous who seem to be voting because their misogynistic or dont like the way someone looks.

    This is part of my dismay at the thought of a National led government. It seems like such a step backwards in terms of attitudes, civil rights, and social justice. OTOH I am uplifted by the way so much of the discussion on the left is based on MP’s and candidates politcies and political skills, rather than their gender, sexuality or appearance.

  41. Ari 41

    Why bring skin colour into it – are you racist or just bitter?

    I find it very sad that you can look at that quote and actually get the impression that Chris G is racist, (rather than you know, acknowledging a bias that exists among people similar to himself) and that the people he’s talking about aren’t an example of racial privilege. (which is not the same thing as racism, because racism is the abuse of a racial privilege. Just so nobody goes putting words in my mouth 😉 )

  42. Joanna 42

    Chris – I also have a number of friends voting for national for bizzare reasons, for example, Clark’s looks, marriage, the fact she has no children etc etc.
    I wonder if its generational thing though as I suspect we are of similar ages (both flatting, uni etc).
    It does worry me that so many people at university buy into this trash – so much for teaching reasoned thinking – although all my examples are from the commerce department so maybe it makes sense 🙂

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