Fifteen Green MPs, or more

Written By: - Date published: 10:02 am, August 23rd, 2023 - 38 comments
Categories: election 2023, greens, poverty - Tags: , , , , ,

TVNZ’s Verian Poll on Monday had the Greens at 12%. If that holds on election day, it’s close to 15 Green MPs in parliament. It would also be the most MPs the Greens have ever had in parliament. The Greens are saying it’s because of political courage.

Here’s what 15 Green MPs would look like, from the Green Party List,

  1. Marama Davidson (list only)
  2. James Shaw (list only) 
  3. Chlöe Swarbrick (Auckland Central)
  4. Julie Anne Genter (Rongotai)
  5. Teanau Tuiono (Palmerston North)
  6. Lan Pham (Banks Peninsula)
  7. Golriz Ghahraman (Kelston)
  8. Ricardo Menéndez March (Mount Albert)
  9. Steve Abel (New Lynn)
  10. Hūhana Lyndon (Te Tai Tokerau)
  11. Fa’anānā Efeso Collins (Panmure-Ōtāhuhu)
  12. Scott Willis (Taieri)
  13. Darleen Tana (Tāmaki Makaurau)
  14. Kahurangi Carter (Christchurch Central)
  15. Celia Wade-Brown (Wairarapa)

That would be 7 existing MPs and 8 new ones, not a bad renewal for a party growing its support.

No reason why it couldn’t be more. You can read about the new people on the list at the Greens’ 2023 candidate page. For those not a fan of the social justice side of green politics, environmentalists feature heavily. Whether the Greens are in government, or on the cross benches, we desperately need more and stronger green voices in parliament, pushing us in the right direction on the climate and ecology crises.

The other great thing about 15 or more Green MPs is that if we get a Labour-led government, we will get more Green Ministers. That’s the other way that change happens, leading in specific areas and developing policy deep within government.

Also in the Verian Poll was this: Do Kiwis want wealth tax for universal free dental care?

Unsurprisingly, yes.

The poll asked eligible voters if they would support or oppose a wealth tax on the assets of New Zealanders with more than $2m in assets if having the wealth tax meant everyone got free dental care. 

A majority – 63% – said they’d be in support of it, while 28% were opposed. The rest didn’t know or refused to say.

This is excellent work by the Greens. If the left get to form government, and the Greens have 15 MPs, there is a strong chance of getting major change to dental services in New Zealand. Might not happen exactly how the Greens wrote their policy, but I would expect it to be a high priority in post-election negotiations.

Voters, the more Green MPs we have, the more progressive policy like this will get through.

And whether the left gets to form government or not, this solid work on wealth taxes over a number of years means that New Zealanders now consistently poll as being in favour of a wealth tax. In May 53% of people in a Newshub/Reid poll that they support the Government introducing a wealth tax, while a few weeks ago 47% said the Prime Minister shouldn’t have ruled out a wealth tax. (only 39% thought he was right).

In the wealth tax to pay for universal dental care poll, this is pertinent,

Those more likely to support a wealth tax in the poll were Green Party supporters (88%), Labour Party supporters (81%), and women aged 18 to 34 (74%).

Those more likely to oppose a wealth tax were ACT Party supporters (54%), those with an annual household income of more than $150,000 (43%), men aged 55+ (42%) and National party supporters (41%).

This is the Overton Window on social security shifting, being shifted, by politicians doing the mahi and leading the way. Thanks Metiria, and all those who have been working on the long game. Change can happen from developing fair policy and presenting it to the electorate.

It also opens the door to a conversation about universal services generally, whereby access for all citizens to core services provided by the state redresses inequity, pushes back on poverty, and prevents more people from becoming poor. Universal services sit alongside income guarantees and job guarantees. Let’s shift the Overton Window on these too.

How cool that 63% of respondents believe these two things:

  • the government should tax high wealth
  • everyone should have access to dental care

Of course translating that percentage into votes on the day is a harder challenge, but we should take heart from this poll that New Zealand does have the potential to become more socialist again.

Meanwhile, Labour.

38 comments on “Fifteen Green MPs, or more ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Tiger Mountain 1
    23 August 2023 at 10:14 am

    Great news. Green messaging has been feistier of late and is making some impact. Some real talent there like Steve Abel, Lan and Hūhana. People that have actually done useful things in life and consistently backed a principled Green approach. Natzos in blue suits accumulate capital for the few and are basically interchangeable, Green MPs have usually been individuals and all the more interesting for it.

    NZ Labour needs to ditch those undemocratic “Cap’n’s calls” and start uniting with Greens and Te Pāti Māori in the interests of the majority in Aotearoa NZ.

  2. Ad 2
    23 August 2023 at 10:16 am

    Steve and Efeso come on in please.

  3. Tricledrown 3
    23 August 2023 at 11:12 am

    The Greens are getting more support but no viable coalition at the moment Labour are tanking because of incompetent Ministers dumb behaviour.Labour need to go through their line up and ditch dodgy representatives.looks like Labour has a shallow talent pool and poor leadership with in the party.Green policy is what is needed with Global Warming getting out of Control.People are more worried about the short term than the catastrophic collapse that will happen sooner than later.Big Business is on the hamster wheel of denial and is only looking to do the same with minimal change.Big Business wants more consumption at all costs! The finite resource of the planet has no relevence until the oligarchs are personally effected.The very few wealthy have profiteered out of the covid catastrophe and Ukrainian war. With massive increases in wealth. Same in NZ ,the wealthy have made huge increases in asset wealth and wages.Speculation Corporate managers salaries increasing by multiple percentages while 60% of New Zealanders are much worse of 55% struggling to keep from sinking(this fact needs to spelled out loudly during the election reminding people That National and ACT have only one solution and it is austerity where the poor 55% of New Zealanders will be forced to pay the price of Nact policy!) financially.The Greens need to push the Fact that National always make the poor poorer that's a business model type economic approach keep people poor its keeps the cost of business down.While the left putting more money resources like free prescriptions I to the poor pockets keeping people healthy out of expensive hospitals and working.Get the message out there Greens.Green Policy is better for people and the planet.Free Dental care will mean better health for all.Poor Dental health= poor physical health especially affecting the heart.This would reduce pressure on the health system.

  4. arkie 4
    23 August 2023 at 12:19 pm

    This RNZ feature on party policies show the depth and range of the Greens policy platform: https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/news-extras/story/2018902030/election-2023-rnz-s-guide-to-party-policy

    Many of the other party have either yet to announce their policies or they are very surface level.

  5. Chris 5
    23 August 2023 at 1:58 pm

    The sad thing about Labour is that they'd get so much support for policies like a wealth tax and probably a CGT if they had nous to explain it properly. They don't, so hand the microphone to luxon et al to lie about what those policies will mean. It's really dumb stuff Labour's doing, playing straight into the right's hands, instead of bringing the people with them.

    • Craig H 5.1
      23 August 2023 at 3:23 pm

      No amount of nous helps if people don't read the material and instead believe the headline attacks. I recall having to explain to people in 2014 that a capital gains tax would not be 100% – they really thought Labour was promising to take the whole gain, not just tax on the gain as a profit.

      • alwyn 5.1.1
        24 August 2023 at 6:17 pm

        I suggest you redo your calculation today while assuming the following. People can get a pre-tax return of 5% on their wealth and that the tax rates will be the ones that the Green Party are proposing. The wealth tax being proposed by the Green party will be applied..

        The marginal tax rate on any income over $180k where you have wealth of more that $2m will be 95% if there is no inflation at all. If there is any inflation over about 0.2% the real tax rate will be over 100%. Is that really what you want? After all that would apply to the income of a back bench MP in a just a bit better than average home in a reasonable Auckland suburb. Perhaps Devonport or Epsom.

        • SPC 5.1.1.1
          24 August 2023 at 6:39 pm

          What has this to do with CGT?

          • alwyn 5.1.1.1.1
            24 August 2023 at 7:06 pm

            Are the Green Party still proposing a CGT? I thought that all their interest had swung around to a Wealth Tax. That is why I suggested that he redo his calculation in todays environment, not in the dark ages of 2014.

            When I look at the 2023 manifesto I don't see any mention of a CGT. There is only a comment on introducing a Wealth Tax.

            https://www.greens.org.nz/ending_poverty_2023

            Surely you aren't suggesting that there is going to be Income Tax plus a CGT plus a Wealth Tax?

            • SPC 5.1.1.1.1.1
              24 August 2023 at 7:25 pm

              He talked about misrepresentation of the CGT back in 2014.

              And you're misrepresenting wealth tax in 2023.

              A wealth tax is applied at a fixed % of wealth above the threshhold, it is the same whatever the rate of income tax they are paying.

              It is like a land tax, but on all (asset) wealth.

              • alwyn …
                24 August 2023 at 8:10 pm

                It is perfectly reasonable to ask that he redo the calculation to see whether the conclusions would be the same today. After all we are being asked to vote on the current manifestoes, not the ones from nine years ago.

                I am not misrepresenting the wealth tax at all. Neither am I misquoting the income tax rates being proposed. Consider that you have an income above $180k/year and wealth above $2m. On the wealth you make 5%/annum.

                The marginal tax rate on the your income will be the rate on the last dollar you earn .It will be subject to the highest income tax rate plus the wealth tax. It will be part of your income above $180k. It will also be earned from wealth that is subject to the wealth tax. You will pay 45c income tax on that dollar. This dollar of income, since it is earned at a return of 5% will come from $20 of wealth. You will pay 50c wealth tax on that $20. The total tax you will pay on that marginal dollar of income will therefore be 95c, which is the marginal tax rate of 95%. If there is any inflation then your real wealth will be less than it was before you started paying any taxes and the effective rate will go above 100% .

                What is the supposed misrepresentation you suggest that I am making?

      • Chris 5.1.2
        25 August 2023 at 8:27 am

        Are you saying that the way a political party brings the people with them is to assume they'll read the policy detail and understand attack headlines when they see them?

        • Craig H 5.1.2.1
          25 August 2023 at 3:04 pm

          I'm saying it's really hard to bring along people who don't pay attention to politics or policies, particularly for complex policies.

  6. MickeyBoyle 6
    23 August 2023 at 2:38 pm

    "How cool that 63% of respondents believe these two things:"

    • the government should tax high wealth
    • everyone should have access to dental care"

    People in favour of free stuff as long as others pay for it, I'm shocked!

    • Tricledrown 6.1
      23 August 2023 at 2:55 pm

      Mickley Boyle the wealthy have had a massive increase in wealth at the expense of the poor who will be paying the massive debts built up by Quantative easing monopolies and Cartelsj.Useful idiots who are mildly well off defend the gready predators have made huge untaxed capital the banks have made record profits oil companies power companies grocery retailers all made record profits causing inflation.the bottom 60% are much worse off most of us are struggling.

      Mickley Boyle you are reheating Margaret Thatchers simplistic idea that economies run like your house hold budget.Thatchers mother ran a corner store/dairy now if you take money out of the 60% who are struggling the corner store would be less profitable.Thatcher only told homespun propaganda to distract the peasants while the rich hoard money narcissistically rubbishing g the poor for being poor.

    • weka 6.2
      23 August 2023 at 3:09 pm

      People in favour of free stuff as long as others pay for it, I'm shocked!

      One person's 'other people', is another person's 'us'. The core difference between the left and right. The left want everyone to be ok, the right want to look after themselves.

    • DS 6.3
      23 August 2023 at 3:21 pm

      People on the Right want tax cuts so long as others pay for it via service cuts.

    • Blazer 6.4
      23 August 2023 at 3:25 pm

      Are you shocked at how the right…'socialise the losses…and privatise…the profits'?

    • SPC 6.5
      23 August 2023 at 3:52 pm

      New Zealand’s 311 wealthiest families pay 8.8 per cent tax on their income compared to the 10.5 per cent paid by those on the minimum wage and there was only brief complaint about that from some left-leaning commentators.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/anaru-eketone-theres-a-lot-of-scaremongering-about-maori-elite-but-what-about-the-pakeha-elite/TQOJX5T4LFGGJPUUWPLQOL6WMA/

    • Macro 6.6
      23 August 2023 at 4:31 pm

      People in favour of free stuff as long as others pay for it,

      Like free drugs for cancer while those with other ailments – heart disease, etc, you name it – pay for it. That's a National policy by the way.

  7. DS 7
    23 August 2023 at 3:19 pm

    The Greens are being sensible by downplaying the Identity Politics stuff and appealing to the universal (wealth tax, dentistry). And Labour under Hipkins has not helped itself.

    Another perk of the Greens doing well is that they have a chance of bringing in a second South Island based MP, in the form of Scott Willis. The Greens do relatively better in the South than the North, but you wouldn’t know it from the list selection. The Greens really don’t know who votes for them.

    • SPC 7.1
      23 August 2023 at 3:43 pm

      8 of the 27 standing in electorates are South Island candidates (only 3 in the top 15 and the 8th 27th of a list of 31 – the 2 co-leaders and two down the bottom, not contesting electorates).

      https://www.greens.org.nz/green_party_unveils_its_list_for_the_2023_election

      South Island 1.1 M of 5.2M population total – just over 1/5th ideally 3 of 12 rather than 3 of 15 into parliament (find someone to stand for Te Tai Tonga and give them a high list place)

      • DS 7.1.1
        23 August 2023 at 7:27 pm

        If they get 15 total, they'll indeed get a third South Island one. Which is fine. It's just that if they get 11 (or less) total, they'll only get one.

  8. Tricledrown 8
    23 August 2023 at 7:27 pm

    Mickley Boyle the wealthy have had a massive increase in wealth at the expense of the poor who will be paying the massive debts built up by Quantative easing monopolies and Cartelsj.Useful idiots who are mildly well off defend the gready predators who 9have made huge untaxed capital gain the banks have made record profits oil companies power companies grocery retailers all made record profits causing inflation.the bottom 60% are much worse off most of us are struggling.

    Mickley Boyle you are reheating Margaret Thatchers simplistic idea that economies run like your house hold budget.Thatchers mother ran a corner store/dairy now if you take money out of the 60% who are struggling the corner store would be less profitable or have to shut.Thatcher only told homespun propaganda to distract the peasants while the rich hoard money narcissistically rubbishing g the poor for being poor.

    • Barfly 8.1
      24 August 2023 at 9:12 am

      rich hoard money narcissistically rubbishing g the poor for being poor.

      Same as it ever was……angry

  9. newsense 9
    23 August 2023 at 11:56 pm

    Thinking of voting for the party this lady tells me too or the first one she will stand for. This angry missive on behalf of those who have been shafted by the conditions of the housing market and those who run in entitlement to those who’d return their license to print cash.

    And to the journalists who wound up their furious scorn for Labour last week for their GST policy- I will remember all of you hypocrites, Tova and Malpass the most egregious. You stood weakly by your pen as this happened and didn’t support stronger measures. But tell me again about how we should cower before the supermarkets who will strip any benefits of GST policy away with duopolist fury and power and even trying is stupid.

    Good for you Emily Writes! It’s a country, we want people to be able to live here.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/renting/132800974/the-gravy-train-is-over-why-my-tiniest-violin-is-out-for-landlords

    If you can get chucked in the too hard basket and turfed out for asking your landlord to fix a hole in the roof, we're back to the dark ages.

  10. tsmithfield 10
    24 August 2023 at 3:06 pm

    People here might be surprised to know that I would actually be quite happy for the Greens if they do well.

    As those who read my comments will know, I am not a fan of their economics. But, I certainly am glad that they are there to represent the environment. And, I also respect the fact that they stand on principle, even though I often disagree. Something that is often missing from the major parties.

  11. Ad 11
    25 August 2023 at 10:33 am

    Respect to Eugenie Sage; only minister to substantially expand our national park system since Helen Clark's Rakiura in 2002.

    Also likeable and personable one on one.

  12. Leighton 12
    25 August 2023 at 3:36 pm

    The Greens have some good candidates and some good policies. It is unfortunate that their "social justice" wing embarrassed themselves to the extent that they did at the Albert Park debacle and its aftermath. Although I've voted Greens in the past including 2020, I can't in good conscience support them this time. They need a clear-out to take them back to robustly debated evidence-based policy over identity politics and shouting opponents down.

    [Please stick to your approved e-mail address, thanks – Incognito]

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