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Get out of Gaza

Written By: - Date published: 12:41 pm, January 5th, 2009 - 85 comments
Categories: International - Tags:

israei-missile-strikeIsrael’s latest attack on Gaza, purportedly to stop Hamas rocket attacks on Israel, is an unjustified, immoral, and, above all, stupid action.

I am not defending Hamas’ rocket attacks at all – while many are targeted at Israeli military forces most are simply indiscriminate. I’m saying they don’t justify Israel’s response. Yep, Hamas fires a lot of rockets but they are a ludicrously ineffective weapon used by an oppressed people to make mere pin-prick attacks on their rulers. Most of the rockets fall harmlessly. In 8 years, 27 people have been killed by rockets and mortars launched from Gaza. Israel routinely kills that many civilians in a single day and we’re expected to brush it off as collateral damage.

It’s not as if things suddenly got worse in the last few weeks to justify this latest Israeli onslaught. Not a single Israeli had been killed since May. Before the Israeli attack, the only recent deaths from the rockets were two Palestinian civilians killed by a misfire.

The Israeli invasion has not made things better. Four Israelis have been killed by rockets since the Isreali attack started, more than in the entire previous year. Just as in Israel’s last military foray, into Lebanon, the response is a hail of missiles and more Isreali deaths, not fewer. The idea that the Israeli attack can somehow stop Hamas’ rockets attacks is deadly dreaming. Resistance is inevitable; humans will not acquiesce peacefully to foreign rule. While the  Israelis rule Gaza like a giant prison, there will be Palestinian violence in response. That’s not a justification, that’s just reality. Every time Israel goes in guns blazing is just makes the situation worse and ultimately does more damage to itself. Only freedom for the Palestinian people could end the rocket attacks.

So, Israel’s response is futile and unjustified simply from the perspective of the cost to Israel. But let us not forget that it is the Palestinians, the 1.5 million people living in poverty, crammed into the Gaza strip, who suffer the most. Hundreds of entirely innocent people are killed every year by the Israeli occupation. Since last week, another four hundred or more have shared their fate. These people did not deserve to die. And it is a heinous crime that they have been killed by a foreign ruler using massive force in pursuit of an unattainable goal.

I don’t want to spend much time addressing our Government’s response to this international crisis because it is irrelevant to the actual conflict. But it does say something about the quality of our government that it has issued no official statement on the issue. All our great Foreign Minister Murray McCully has roused himself to do is write a whining little press release where he attacks the Greens for their condemnation of Israel’s invasion. He hasn’t actually released any statement of New Zealand’s policy, a soundbite on the news is enough he reckons. It’s pretty obvious that National/ACT backs Israel’s aggression but is afraid to say anything for fear of a domestic backlash and, potentially, getting offside with Obama. Pathetically, they don’t have the courage to come out and say that.

85 comments on “Get out of Gaza”

  1. Rochelle 1

    And of course Israel is due to hold an election on February 10. They are well known to step up actions against the Palestinians near election time, in an attempt to gain populist support among their own people. There’s a good article from the Daily Star here:

    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=98764

  2. Mike 2

    Since McCully the one talking about about ‘bi-partisan’ foreign policy before the election. All he has to do is copy and paste the press releases Helen Clark issued last week and again today.

  3. This war is really part of a much larger war for control of the earth’s resources.
    McCully won’t say anthing because Obama hasnt. Obama hasnt because his foreign policy is no different from Bush’s. And you are right NZ is a fly on the arse of the US.
    What is at stake here is a drive to war for control of the Middle East and Central Asia.
    Israel is earning its keep by doing its job as the US local policeman committing genocide on the Palestinians and forming a military axis with the protectorate in Iraq to impose a military dictatorship across the whole region.
    Proves that the imperialist war machine is on a collision course with the the masses in the race to see who will survive – the dark star or the ragtag bands.

    captcha: Sheriff grabs!!!

  4. Ag 4

    This effort, is if anything, even more absurd than the Lebanon invasion two years ago. The contortions of the media are even more sadly comical this time.

    Absolutely nothing will be done about this due to the North American Jewish Lobby. Unless you’ve lived there, it is difficult to understand how much influence it has, how much it twists media representations of the Israel/Palestine conflict, and how willing it is to destroy by any means necessary anyone who gets in its way. There are certain things you cannot say in public, or a well -organized and well-funded gang will go after you until you shut up.

  5. PFraser 5

    Helen Clark, Labour foreign affairs spokesperson, has taken a much stronger position than McCully, calling for a ceasefire.

  6. Odysseus 6

    This is the first time I have replied to this site and it is the misuse of the word ” genocide ” that has done it !

    It is a silly use of the word ” genocide” to say that Israel is comitting ” genocide ” on the Palestinians. There are probably a number of dictionary definitions we could go with but basically the word means something along the lines of a systematic policy of exterminating an entire race, culture, ethnic group etc. It can only be attrributed to a relatively few number of recent historic events and funnily enough the attempt by Nazis on the Jewish people in the 1930s /40s would rank as the most infamous.

    Clearly there is no such policy operative on the part of Israel – if there was, there would be alot more Palestinian deaths. Which begs the question as to why those such as “redrave” use the word. I will leave others to come to their own conclusion on that.

    The situation in the midEast may or may not be complicated. The solution however is relatively simple – a two state proposition for two peoples. But there are those on both sides who do not want this – and one of those parties is Hamas which uncompomisingly propose one state solution – an Islamist one. I wonder if those who judge and condemn Isreal would really like to live in such a theocracy?

    I would also ask those who condemn Israel to stand back a bit and ponder – if you were living with your family in Sth Israel, and for years you had to listen to air raid alarms as rockets are fired in the vicinity of your community, your schools etc, and you had to relocate into shelters , don’t you think you would get a tad weary of this? Just reflect on it a bit, ok?

    A disclaimer – I am related to some people currently live in Sth Israel – the people I know are in fact fully supportive of a functioning and prosperous Palestinian co-located next to their own. Unfortunately, Hamas, being deeply and vociferously anit-Semitic has a quite different agenda.

  7. Kerry 7

    What we are seeing is an attempt by Israel to exterminate the Palestinians…not content with stealing their land now they want them off the planet!

    I’d be firing rockets as well if my land and way of life had been stolen and trampled over for the past 60 years!

    Israel talks alot of peace but seems unwilling to negotiate…

    Just to clarity, Saddam was seen as a bastard for invading Kuwait….yet when Israel invades Lebanon and Gaza they are seen to be freedom fighters….PAAALEEASE!!!!!!

  8. Johnty Rhodes 8

    Hay Hams, stop killing women/children with your rockets going to Israel. Did someone nottell them to take a knife to a gunfight.

  9. theaveragekeywi 9

    The invasion’s got next to nothing to do with the rockets either. With a last chance to ground an assault with Bush in power, with Israeli elections coming up (especially after Olmert’s disaster in Lebanon), and Israel’s right-wing committed to stay in control of the occupied territories, these are the conflict’s main causes. Steve’s right about the relevance of NZ’s government response, but after hearing McCully say virtually nothing about civilian deaths and other humanitarian issues, him and his party are clearly an outrage and couldn’t care less.

    Hey Johnty, learn how to write a sentence, then think about where most of the deaths and sufferings are occurring. Hamas rockets are simply an excuse for the assult.

  10. Ag 10

    Hay Hams, stop killing women/children with your rockets going to Israel. Did someone nottell them to take a knife to a gunfight

    The rockets have nothing to do with this operation, which has been in the planning for months, during which there was a truce and no rocket fire. It’s all about looking good to the Israeli electorate and punishing the Palestinians for daring to elect Hamas instead of Israel’s pliant partner, Fatah. The reason Hamas is in charge of the strip is that Fatah in cahoots with Israel and the US was planning to overturn the results of the election that put Hamas in power. Having failed to do that, the Israelis have blockaded the Gaza Strip for over a year.

    I don’t blame the Palestinians for voting for Hamas. It is simply better at providing services to the average Palestinian than Fatah, and is not corrupt. Fatah officials have siphoned millions of dollars of aid money into their own bank accounts, whereas Hamas are pretty much clean (they’re Islamists and take a hard line on theft).

    Given these facts, your comment is risible.

  11. higherstandard 11

    Rave

    You really are a dimwit, if Israel wanted to commit genocide they would carpet bomb Gaza.

    I also see on your website that you are asking for arms to be sent to the palestinians so they can incite Israel even more – truly a bizzarre notion, supplying weapons to lunatics like the Iranian backed Hamas is exactly what gets Israel/Palestine and its neighbours into these types of shambles in the first place.

    Israel/Palestine will remain a shambles until Israel swaps more land for peace and certain Arab States and the terrorists they sponsor recognise Israel’s right to exist and stop ‘poking the the large angry Tiger with a stick’

    [lprent: It would also be helpful if Israel would boot the settlers out of the settlements that they have already agreed to dismantle. Those are in the west bank where there are no rockets being fired from – it is under Fatah control. But of course the Israeli’s haven’t made a move to any conciliatory direction. They just seized more territory when they built their wall.
    There would be a use of Israeli military force I’d approve of.]

  12. Quoth the Raven 12

    At Lenin’s Tomb they have a quote from an Israeli General, General Gadi Eisenkot: “What happened in the Dahiya quarter in Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which Israel is fired upon. We will apply disproportionate force upon it and cause great damage and destruction there,” he said. “From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases.”

    “This is not a recommendation. This is a plan. And it has been approved’.

    The fact that these kinds of comments are not reported on, I think, shows how pathetically reported is the Palestinian situation in western media and how utterly biased they are in favour of the zionists, ours included.

  13. Santi 13

    “I am not defending Hamas’ rocket attacks at all …. I’m saying they don’t justify Israel’s response.”

    Since when military responses have to be commesurate with the initial attack or attacks? Haven’t you read history, military genius?

  14. Israel is faced with a more moderate President in the White House AND domestic elections in the next few weeks.

    The record makes it clear that Israel does not want a peace settlement because they want to keep all the land….and expand incrementally, if possible, using oppressive force to suppress any opposition.

    This situation in Gaza serves several important purposes for the Israelis who do not want peace:

    1. They are looking to Isaeli voters like they do “doing something”. The Labour Party in Israel can hardly dissent in time of war.

    2. They are effectively tying the hands of a new, more moderate US president for years to come. Obama has nothing to work with now. Israel has done at it can to destroy any goodwill on the Palestinian side.

    3. Wipe out Hamas, leaving no organised political infrastructure to negotiate anything in any peace process.

    The invasion of Gaza is a cynical act of murder intended to frutrate peace – again….as Israle has done over and over since they dropped the Oslo agreement.

    Sure…they have a long list of rationales for doing these things…..but when you dig into the detail you too often find that Israel had a hand in deliberately – knowingly- creating the event or reaction that they then use as a pretext for more war instead of peace.

    They have no real incentive for peace accord…..and their lack of interest in one is now palpable…(again).

    On the other side, the Palestinians could just give it all up. No more resistance. Like the Maoris did here a century ago……and then after a few decades, if anyone asserts any disputes over land, the people alive then say; “That’s years ago! Ancient history”.

    The Palestinians have no real option but to continue armed resistance to the theft of their land if they are to have any hope of getting it back….or keeping what they still have.

    It’s very sad….but neither side has any interest in peace right now.

    President Obama should simply refuse to fund any more of the slaughter. If Israel wants to maintain its current stance, it should not expect others to subsidise – and legitimise – it.

  15. Quoth the Raven 15

    Santi – So you condemn the killing of civilians by Hamas, but condone the killing of civilians by the Israelis? instead of condemning both as SP is.

  16. Mr Magoo 16

    And while people quibble over the details and who has a more moral stand point, who has done more killing and who deserves what the most, more children die.

    Honestly. Anyone defending any agressor in this conflict just needs to shut the hell up. Everyone apart from the innocent civilians being killed needs to be thrown in a jail and left to rot.

    Both “sides” (aka: governments, not people) have proved they are incapable of handling this situation. The UN needs to grow a backbone and sort it out for them.

  17. G 17

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  18. Billy 18

    Steve, was your New Year’s resolution to change nothing about yourself? At least you are predictable, I suppose.

    Are you seriously suggesting that Israel should just ignore the rocket attacks on its civilians and schools? 27 murdered jews don’t count, I guess. As they say in Miller’s Crossing, “What’s one schmada, more or less?”.

  19. hhh 19

    What Magoo said ……… but expecting the UN to do anything apart from behave like salamanders is delusional …. I mean what have they done about Zimbabwe and numerous other examples apart from a great deal of hand wringing.

  20. Billy 20

    And maybe if Hamas decided it wasn’t committed to wiping Israel off the face of the earth it’d get treated a bit better by Israel.

  21. Quoth the Raven 21

    Billy – I think that’s just posturing just as Israel says it would destroy Hamas. The fact is Hamas would agree to go back to 1967 borders, but Israel won’t give up the land it confiscated. Do you expect the Palestinians just to sit around around while there borders are sealed, while medical aid is withheld, while their infrastructure is destroyed, while the water is taken from beneath their feet, while scores of civilians are killed, while thousands of their people are held in prisons, while hospitals, ambulances and mosques are bombed, while humanitarian ships are rammed, while their houses are bulldozed, and so on with all the atrocities commited by the Israelis? Wouldn’t you rather both sides just sort it out with talking? I think not based on the breathless simplicity of your above comments.

  22. Johnty Rhodes 22

    I don’t know why so many white liberals defend muslims? To a lot of them we are ALL infadels, they would just as easily slit my throat as well as Keith Locke’s. We are one & the same to them.
    They do not add to our society in NZ & in the UK. We should learn the lessons the UK have learnt the hard way before it is too late.
    I loathe that race and whet they want, rule over everyone babbling to Allah. Oh well, time for a dump, I will dedicate this one to Allah, makes it come out easier.

  23. Ag 23

    Since when military responses have to be commesurate with the initial attack or attacks? Haven’t you read history, military genius?

    It’s called “proportionality” and is part of just war theory. Neither the current antics or the previous debacle in Lebanon came anywhere near close to satisfying the requirement of proportionality.

    In fact, Israel seems to have adopted a tactic of extreme disproportionality of response. That is a war crime by definition. The Israeli state seems to have adopted a policy of bare faced criminality. This is a shame for a country founded as the result of war crimes and crimes against humanity. It’s getting as bad as South Africa, and in some respects is worse. They already demonstrated that they are happy to treat New Zealand with contempt.

    Since our governments are doing nothing, one hopes that outraged citizens might torch an embassy or two.

  24. Ag 24

    They do not add to our society in NZ & in the UK. We should learn the lessons the UK have learnt the hard way before it is too late.

    Yeah, the next thing they’ll make a Muslim the captain of the England cricket team.

  25. Francois 25

    Isn’t the defence secretary a member of the Israeli Labour Party….

  26. hhh 26

    Ag

    “Since our governments are doing nothing, one hopes that outraged citizens might torch an embassy or two.”

    This will help how ?

    “It’s getting as bad as South Africa, and in some respects is worse.”

    Once again please explain …. “there are no benches or parks marked “No non-Israelis’. There are no post offices, buses or trains divided into Israeli/non-Israeli. Police in Israel do not beat up Arabs for walking with a Jewish woman. There are Arabs in the Israeli parliament and in the highest echelons of the civil services. An Arab can own a business etc etc”

    Contrast this with what the territory would likely be like under a Hamas led Islamic state who have shown a marked hatred for not only the Israelis but many of their own people.

  27. higherstandard 27

    Why don’t we impose Keith Locke’s solution and just send an open letter to all anti American terrorists to come to NZ ?

  28. RedLogix 28

    Jonty Rhodes:

    That was unacceptable. I’m not going to rant or rave about what you just wrote. It is simply wrong and offensive in every possible way. If it was on my blog I would delete it.

    Alternatively it could be left to stand as permanent evidence of not only your own moral condition, but of exactly the kind of defective thinking that directly causes hatred and war.

    HS,

    Come on, you’ve been round here a while and you have some idea of how the game is played; you can do much better than that.

  29. mike 29

    Israel should clear Gaza of everybody for as far as the range of the rockets. Those kicked out can go to – well lets think of what other arab/muslim countries are nearby.
    Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Oman, The gulf states( Dubai etc) I mean – shit – theres hardly anywhere they can go………………

  30. higherstandard 30

    RL

    True I forgot the smiley face Locke’s comments about the residents of Guantanamo were so absurd they should only be taken as a joke.

    As an aside there’s a fair amount of defective thinking about in this post with encouragement from certain posters to send arms to the Palestinians and from others to start burning embassies – methinks the problems in the middle east won’t have gone away before we’ve both been in the grave for many a year.

  31. Ag 31

    This will help how ?

    Because our governments are failing to act, and their failure is chronic and deliberate so much so that they lack any real credibility on the issue. Our government is happy to make dealing with terrorists illegal, just as long as the word “terrorist” is emptied of its meaning, which is then replaced with “people whom it is convenient to accuse of terrorism”. We ought to have nothing to do with such states (and you can add Burma and North Korea to that list).

    Once again please explain . “there are no benches or parks marked “No non-Israelis’. There are no post offices, buses or trains divided into Israeli/non-Israeli.

    What about the roads?

    That’s just the start of the list, but I’ll let you off for being such an easybeat.

  32. pk 32

    I find it immensely interesting that the vast majority of people choose sides. They are both at fault (and no I’m not trying to allocate fault by percentage)

    Ignoring huge amounts of history and just keeping to the last 5 or so years, it is clear that both the Israelis and the Hamas are on a collision course. It’s easy to criticise both sides – the Hamas fire rockets indiscriminantly, Israel allowspromotes settlers, Hamas uses suicide bombers, Israel over-reacts etc, etc They are both guilty of, frankly, actively promoting the continuation of hostilities of some sort.

    It does come across as if there are political elements whose survival is dependent on some variation of the current situation, if I’m being cynical. A platitude but it typically takes two to pick a fight.

    The real tragedy here is that it’s difficult to see any solution.

  33. higherstandard 33

    Ag

    Separate roads came into being at around the time that suicide bombers were popping up in the large Israel cities as always in the middle east it takes the two sides to Tango (for Tango read SNAFU for the general population)

    Suggesting Israel is a racist state however and practising apartheid is plainly perverse.

    “there are in Israel several Arab political parties; that Arab-Muslim legislators have veto powers; and that Arab parties have overturned disqualifications. …. Israel has a free Arab press; that road signs bear Arabic translations; and Arabs live and study alongside Jews.”

    “In any event, what is racism? Under apartheid it was skin colour. Applied to Israel that’s a joke: for proof of that, just look at a crowd of Israeli Jews and their gradations in skin-colour from the “blackest” to the “whitest”… Occupation is brutalising and corrupting both Palestinians and Israelis… but it is not apartheid. Palestinians are not oppressed on racial grounds as Arabs, but, rather, as competitors ? until now, at the losing end ? in a national/religious conflict for land.”

    “To start with, no one has yet thought to accuse Israel of creating a phony country in finally acquiescing to the creation of a Palestinian state. Palestine is no Bantustan… Furthermore, Israel has always had Arab citizens…. No doubt many Israelis have racist attitudes toward Arabs, but the official philosophy of the government is quite the opposite, and sincere efforts are made to, for example, instill humanitarian and egalitarian attitudes in children. That is not true, of course, in Arab countries, where hatred of Jews is a standard part of the curriculum.”

    Citing what he calls “the most tragic difference,” Kinsley concludes: “If Israel is white South Africa and the Palestinians are supposed to be the blacks, where is their Mandela?

    Similarly, in 2004, Jean-Christophe Rufin, former vice-president of Médecins Sans Frontières and president of Action Against Hunger, recommended in a report about anti-Semitism commissioned by French Interior Minister Dominique de Villepinthat the charge of apartheid and racism against Israel be criminalized in France.

    “There is no question of penalising political opinions that are critical, for example, of any government and are perfectly legitimate. What should be penalised is the perverse and defamatory use of the charge of racism against those very people who were victims of racism to an unparalleled degree. The accusations of racism, of apartheid, of Nazism carry extremely grave moral implications. These accusations have, in the situation in which we find ourselves today, major consequences which can, by contagion, put in danger the lives of our Jewish citizens. It is why we invite reflection on the advisability and applicability of a law … which would permit the punishment of those who make without foundation against groups, institutions or states accusations of racism and utilise for these accusations unjustified comparisons with apartheid or Nazism.”

  34. kg 34

    “The rockets have nothing to do with this operation, which has been in the planning for months, during which there was a truce and no rocket fire.”
    Simply not true–there has never been a truce during which there wasn’t rocket fire.

  35. Chris G 35

    pk: “The real tragedy here is that it’s difficult to see any solution

    I Agree.

    A country that has never attempted to solve the problem: The United States of America. US$3 Million in arms funding and equipment is budgeted and delivered to the U.S designated Sheriff of Arabia – Israel EVERY YEAR

    US taxpayers fund the slaughter and perpetuate the never ending problem in the middle east.

    What a sick and twisted world we live in.

  36. redrave 36

    For the Jesuits here who dance on pin heads here’s a vid over at Travs wider view you really shouldnt miss.

  37. Chris G 37

    Sorry, I believe that is meant to be $3 BILLION to Israel form the Yanks.

    Plus! It doesnt look like Obama will be stemming the flow of $$$ to Israel. Lockheed Martin already sold a huge bunch of F16s to Israel (Paid for by US aid)… Turns out Lockheed are big time donors to Presidential candidates.. Including Obama and Hillary Clinton.Apparently
    Obama got the most of any candidate

    Thats fucked up.

  38. Mr Magoo 38

    Christ almighty. The eggsperts are out in force today.

    A total lack of differentiation for groups within groups and the true cost of wars. The “armchair warriors” here need to pull their head out of their arse and smell the blood to be quite honest.
    I would just LOVE to see them have to witness the horror of this shit up close and personal. To have someone you care about killed as a “accidental” casualty of one of those rockets.
    To have them born into it with no real option but to put up with it and tow the line. To be dumbfounded by the sheer stupidity of ANYONE and EVERYONE in power and to be powerless to do anything to make it stop.

    To watch your local hairdresser murdered in he street and have her body left there for days because if you take it away they kill you too.
    An iraq example from a friend we help raise money for to get out of iraq. We were hoping to NZ to stay with his family, but the NZ government (and those politians we pertitioned) are totally fucking useless in this regard.

    Perhaps even to have someone (or more) you love raped and/or murdered so that you are so angry you pick up a rifle and join in.

    Most of the posts on this thread are just drivel. Academic drivel with no comprehension of what these things actually mean for real people and thus their conclusions are more delusional than believing the UN will step in. (and to the previous poster – I did not actually believe this would happen becasue the US dictates most of UN policy – or at least vetos what it does not want to happen)

    This is just another war perpetrated by a bunch of greedy, evil, rich old men and woman who have managed to convince enough people at some stage to join in and it all reached critical mass. Once the fire is started, it spreads like a cancer as these things always do and this long and protracted war was the result.

    And we sit here and rationalise who did what to whom and who is worser and which race should be shot and who should die. And it appears these desensitised arseholes think that if they were in the shoes of these people that they would be defferent? Better? That somehow because they got lucky as to when and where their DNA was formed that they are not the same species as these people?

    When was the last time YOU did something apart from blow wind out your arse? Did you write a letter to your candidate and/or party demanding they condemn this war? Did you donate to someone trying to do something positive there?

    No? Then I am sorry, then you can just go to hell. You are part of the problem. millions of children die every year from war and famine and we worry about the cost of a tank of gas and interest rates.

    PS: Yes I am being emotive here. I am sick to the eyeballs of us putting up with all these wars as “business as usual”. It shames our entire species to not have evolved beyond it.

  39. Ag 39

    Suggesting Israel is a racist state however and practising apartheid is plainly perverse.

    Oh weally…

    What about the mad marriage laws, the pass laws, etc. All of it intended to preserve a racial majority in Israel. It’s all racist nonsense, redolent of Nazi laws.

    Such an easybeat.

    I’m not surprised Palestinians hate Jews. I’d hate Jews if I had to suffer what the Palestinians did.

  40. Andrew 40

    Ag: “The rockets have nothing to do with this operation, which has been in the planning for months, during which there was a truce and no rocket fire”

    Have you been living in a box for the last year? Your statement is completely false. During the truce Hamas continually fired rockets into Israel completely ignoring the truce. This and only this is the reason we are where we are at the moment.

  41. RedLogix 41

    Andrew:

    Checkout the Wikipedia link in the original post re rocket attacks and casualties. Does that line up with what you are thinking?

    It’s not an original observation, but from Warwaw to Gaza in two generations is another sort of tragedy.

    Very eloquent and impassioned Mr Magoo. You are right, theorising from our safe armchairs while ordinary people have their lives ripped apart, their guts splattered about as so much waste offal… is delusional.

    Ordinary people know what is happening here.

  42. higherstandard 42

    “What about the mad marriage laws, the pass laws, etc. All of it intended to preserve a racial majority in Israel. It’s all racist nonsense, redolent of Nazi laws.”

    Are you referring to the situation where a Palestinian national married to a Palestinian Israeli citizen is not allowed to live in Israel I’d hardly call that “racist nonsense” and “redolent of Nazi laws” as it’s pretty much the same state of play throughout much of Europe and Britain.

    “I’m not surprised Palestinians hate Jews. I’d hate Jews if I had to suffer what the Palestinians did.”

    Eh what ? I’d suggest that hatred of the Jews, Muslims, Christians etc in that part of the world has led to nothing but misery and turmoil.

    Rave I had a quick look at that link to Eve’s site against my better judgement ….. and I congratulate her on being open to the possibility that she was misled in relation to the video in question.

  43. Tigger 43

    The messages that the Nats have sent out this issue speaks volumes about how deeply they want the US to love them…it’s like watching some nerdy kid desperately vying for the affection of the ‘cool’ kids (yes, we all know the cool kids were never actually cool, they just thought they were).

    And now oil is going back up in price – gee thanks Israel…

  44. Andrew 44

    RedLogix … Were you infering that there were no rocket attacks during the ceasefire, or just no casualties?

    From Wiki: “A cease-fire was agreed upon by both sides to begin on June 19, 2008, however, Palestinian militant organization continued to attack Israeli civilian areas”

    This would tend to enforce what i was saying. There was a cease fire, but the Palestinians completely ignored it. Once again, this is the only reason why Israel are launching the operation in Gaza. If the Palestinians had not ignored the cease fire then we would not be in the position we are now.

  45. higherstandard 45

    Andrew.

    “There was a cease fire, but the Palestinians completely ignored it. Once again, this is the only reason why Israel are launching the operation in Gaza.”

    This is certainly a reason but it is not the only reason there are many more complex and soul destroying reasons why this part of the world seems to be a perpetual cock up.

    Have a look here for comment from the locals which shows that the opinion is many and various on what to do and why.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3084,00.html

  46. Carol 46

    Many have reported that Hamas ended the ceasfire in response to Israeli actions. I think even Britain’s Daily Mail reported this in mid December 2008:

    Violence is flaring along the Gaza-Israel border as a shaky truce reaches its expiry date.

    The Israeli military says Gaza militants fired two rockets into Israel this morning, following heavy rocket fire in recent days.

    I also seem to remember that Israel launched some action in Gaza at a time the world’s news media was focusing on something else – maybe Obama’s election as president? Anyway more from the Daily Mail article:

    Tensions along the Israeli-Gaza border have been escalating since early last month when a deadly Israeli army raid triggered a wave of rocket attacks by Palestinian militants.

  47. Chris G 47

    Id be cautious using wiki links friends… For pages that are contentious people with opposing opinions are frequently tinkering around with the edit function…

    Considering Anyone can edit wiki pages I would be careful.
    this is a useful tool for looking at who edits pages on wikipedia (although it looks recently like they’re upgrading the site, have a look nonetheless)

  48. Josh On 48

    Israel broke the truce.

    This idea–that Hamas provoked Israel into attacking Gaza, and therefore bears primary responsibility for the bloodshed–serves as the primary justification for the Israeli military’s war crimes. But it was Israel that broke the truce with Hamas–back on November 5, with an attack that killed six Palestinians. Until that point, the Palestinians had scrupulously abided by the 5-month-old truce, only firing rockets after Israel attacked.

    from Socialist Worker

    Another account :

    Lie #2) Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks.

    Israel never observed the cease-fire to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a “special security zone’ within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law.

    Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others.

    Israel’s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December is being used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but is a direct response to the Israeli attacks.

    Israel’s actions, including its violation of the cease-fire, predictably resulted in an escalation of rocket attacks against its own population.

    From http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=29556

  49. lucy 49

    Read this, look at the website and then tell me that Hamas and the Palistinians who voted them into government want peace.

    The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

    “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”

    “The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. ”

    “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”

    “After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.”

    Ami Isseroff

    http://www.midwestweb.org/hamas.htm

  50. redrave 50

    HS

    Yes Eve acknowledges the video may be misleading. Good on her.
    But it is hardly germane to this issue. The 500 or more that have died in Gaza already died in similar circumstances. There is plenty of evidence that this is not happening in our collective imagination. How many videos do you need to wake up?
    Or are you wide awake counting your blessings?

  51. Ag 51

    Have you been living in a box for the last year? Your statement is completely false. During the truce Hamas continually fired rockets into Israel completely ignoring the truce. This and only this is the reason we are where we are at the moment.

    Nope. The present trouble began when Israel broke the truce in early November by entering the Strip and killing some Palestinians. Oddly enough they did it on November 4th while the rest of the world was watching the US election. The timing tells you everything you need to know.

    Jews can be just as racist as everyone else

  52. higherstandard 52

    Wake up about what Rave ?

    That both sides seem incapable of living in peace with each other and that there’s people in the world insane enough to think that suicide bombings, rocket attacks …… and the response from the other side will do anything apart from lead to more death and despondency……… or are you trying to make some other point which escapes me much like the demented rantings on your blog.

  53. John BT 53

    My support for the Israelis has waned in recent years especially when Sharon was running things. I have not forgotten his part in the massacres at Sabra and Shatilla.
    However, I feel they are totally justified in the response to the Hamas terrorists. If it was anywhere else in the world and it wasn’t the Jews doing the damage there would be no condemnation of their actions.
    Regarding the apologists who support the Hamas terrorists in the bombing of Israeli schools I wonder how you would feel if it was your kids being targeted. What would your response be? Also bear in mind the fact that the raison d’etre of Hamas is the destruction of Israel.
    The Jews have been very careful in targeting their bombs and minimising Palestinian loss of life. This is why the death count is so low after more than 100 tonnes of bombs. Needless to say, any loss of life in a war is bad but this is the Middle East after all.
    I find it hard to understand why anyone in NZ would support Islamic terrorists.

  54. the sprout 54

    So I see on Scoop at the moment there are Gaza releases by Labour, Goff, Clark and the Greens, but the only statement from National is “Goverment rejects Greens’ sophistry on Gaza crisis”. Well what stunning statesmanship, what world leaders in setting standards. Is this what’s meant by being ‘Fast Followers’ – wait until the big boys say something then quickly shout ME TOO?

    NACT has become so addicted to tactical ambivalence on anything it worries might split its support that it’ll very quickly fade into uttter irrelevance.

  55. Carol 55

    And the Maori Party? I would have expected a comment from them.

  56. higherstandard 56

    Sprout

    Here

    “…….the New Zealand government has called on both sides of the Gaza conflict to accept an immediate ceasefire.

    That has been our position from the beginning and remains our position today.

    Both sides need to step back from the brink. Israel must cease attacks on Palestinian targets and Hamas must cease the flow of mortar bombs and rockets into Israel.”

    What else do you want ?

  57. the sprout 57

    Just a bit of leadership hs. Clearly a lot to ask in these days of the Bright and Shiney New Key Way. A government that makes you think “that’s the right thing to say and do”, rather than “what a spineless flaccid grey non-event”.

    And of course you know hs that it’s not just foreign policy that’s been screaming out for a bit of leadership since Mr Key’s election.

  58. higherstandard 58

    Sprout what the feck are you on about ?

    What leadership should the NZ government have shown over and above the comment they made ?

  59. the sprout 59

    perhaps at least pretending to give a shit?

  60. John 60

    The thing that really bothers me about this conflict is how israel can claim it wants to negotiate with palestine. In reality israel wants to “negotiate” in the sense that palestine makes concessions and israel doesn’t destroy them. The election of hamas made this perfectly clear. they dont want to deal with the palestinians now because they no longer have a puppet government. A similar thing happened in nz in the 1890’s the current strike legislation was constrictive so the workers registered under old law to get the freedom to strike. but the bosses made a few strikers sign up under the current law then these few men became the “legal’ union and they gave large concessions to the bosses. the point im making is that the israeli government will negotiate with whoever will do what it wants, and use force against anyone else. It put the blockade down on the palestinian people after they elected hamas like one would put a choke chain on a disobedient dog. Palestine will never be free until goverments like ours take a stand.

  61. will 61

    Sprout – like Goff and Clark ?

  62. Nickc 62

    “In reality israel wants to “negotiate’ in the sense that palestine makes concessions and israel doesn’t destroy them.”

    Israel wants the rocket attacks to stop, which I think it is entitled to. Hamas wants complete destruction of Israel. So yeah negotiation would be hard, but not because of Israel. You are doing the same thing as Clinton and all the other ignorant Liberals here by ignoring the actions of Hamas, i.e. starting the whole conflict and using their people as human shields by basing themselfs in civilion neighbourhoods to concentrate on the actions of Israel.

  63. Ag 63

    However, I feel they are totally justified in the response to the Hamas terrorists. If it was anywhere else in the world and it wasn’t the Jews doing the damage there would be no condemnation of their actions.

    Poppycock.

    The IRA acted in much the same way, but you didn’t see the UK clusterbombing schools and police stations. If they had done, the condemnation would have been overwhelming.

    What is happening here is that Likudniks and other right wing Jews are using the accusation of anti-semitism as cover for their own policies of ethnic cleansing. Israel trying to play the victim here is ridiculous.

  64. idest 64

    “Palestine will never be free until goverments like ours take a stand.”

    Go and have a wank and clam down.

  65. xfr345 65

    Testing

  66. redrave 66

    HS

    Gee your reading Trav and me, wow a lot of time on your hands.
    Do you get paid to do this?

    Idest

    Clam down yurself

    Nick C

    I want the compete destruction of Israel myself.
    My pick is that the majority of the world’s population would rather see Israel destroyed than Palestine.

    Of course before you accuse us of genocide, the destruction of Israel could happen much more peacefully than its construction. Israelis could vote for the right of return and wait for the majority to rule democratically.

    Fat chance however when the Zionists rule backed by the US ruling class committed to a chain of military regimes to pacify the natives across the whole Middle East so they can prepare for the next surge into Afghanistan and the filthy rich oil reserves of Central Asia.

    Call me cynical and lets see who’s crazy at the end of Obama’s first term.

  67. higherstandard 67

    Raving

    “Gee your (you’re) reading Trav and me, wow a lot of time on your hands.
    Do you get paid to do this?”

    On holiday at the moment and off to the bach tomorrow so I won’t have the singular joy of peeking at your blog – I doubt anyone would be paid to read your respective blogs… . but they’re certainly informative in relation to the lunatic fringe at the margins of society.

    Don’t you get tired off pouring forth the same old drivel all the time ?

  68. redrave 68

    HS

    C’mon how do you know its the sameold, same old?
    Seems like the Zionists are pouring out the same old evil weaponry.

  69. tsmithfield 69

    Several points here:

    1. If there had been similar international condemnation of Hamas for their deliberately provactive actions then the current situation may never have arisen. Something to think about next time “peace” is declared and Hamas deliberately provokes Israel for their own political ends.

    2. Hamas radicals intentionally hide themselves amongst the general population in order to maximise the political fall-out when Israel eventually decides to respond. Therefore, in a sense, they are getting what they want.

    3. I don’t condone all the action taken by Israel here. However, put yourselves in their situation. What would we expect from our government if their was some rogue nation on our doorstep continually lobbing rockets into our general population?

  70. Carol 70

    tsmaithfield, we have already quoted evidence up-thread that shows it was Israel that ended the truce (while the world’s media were focused on the US elections) and provoked the Hamas rocket attacks.I don’t agree with this use of rockets, but Israel was counting on them being a predictable Hamas response to their provocations. This followed 18 months of starving Gaza of supplies and freedom in what amounts to a large pison camp.

    You are just repeating the propaganda lines from the Israeli directorate of (mis)Information. They masacre civilians in Gaza, for strategic and political reasons, then blame it on Hamas:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7809371.stm

    The Israeli propaganda effort is being directed to achieve two main aims.

    The first is to justify the air attacks. The second is to show that there is no humanitarian calamity in Gaza.

    See also, for the extent of the Israeli propaganda machine, which is flooding the MSM with its lies and distortions, as well as the blogosphere and other online arenas.

    http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090104/FOREIGN/882042198/0/SPORT

  71. theaveragekeywi 71

    A “rogue nation”?? the only reason that it the way it is Israeli policy. It’s denied a state, an economy, an infrastructure and all the sorts of services that we take for granted.

    Over the past 6 years, 18 Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets. Just last night, 40 refugees (including 7 children) were killed by the IDF. Israel’s government is not interested in peace. As a clear planned attacked, launched on a Saturday (the busiest day in Gaza), it is obvious that they disregard civilian lives, anything argued as “collateral damage” can be rejected. Most Israelis want to exchange peace for land but their government unfortunately thinks otherwise.

    While I don’t support Hamas, this argument is abut humanitarianism and the gross atrocities implemented by a so-called liberal democracy. Most Isrealis that I’ve met are decent people, it’s just a shame that the right-wing dominates policy.

    And yes, defence Minister Barak is a member of the Labour Party, but history shows that it makes stuff all difference who’s in power.

    It’s time for a multilateral solution. The US, Israel and Iran need to grow up. Hamas, Fatah and Syria have shown signs of a willingness to negotiate and to make concessions in the past. It’s about time that they were treated as equals.

  72. Quoth the Raven 72

    Skimming throught the comments above I’m seeing th same lies repeated by the right wing propagandists. So here are some facts: Israel broke the ceasefire first on November 4th.
    Hamas offered Israel a ten year truce, of course not accepted by Israel.
    Israel like Hamas purposely targets civilians, read the quote in my first comment on this thread.

    Another point I would like to make is about the blantantly biased media in this country. When they play clips of the suffering in Gaza why do they censor them? Why can the BBC tell us that they are censored and not our news media who play the same clips? Why spare us from the true horror of Israel’s shoah inflicted upon the palestinians? When is Mike McPropaganda going to be standing on the balcony of a hotel in Jeruslaem miles away from any danger in an oversized flak jacket?

  73. Tali 73

    Thanks Steve, This is by far the most objective piece on the situation in Gaza that I’ve seen so far in the New Zealand media. We need more balanced articles like this so people can make an informed decision about where they stand on the issue. We don’t need any more pro-Israeli garbage from the Dom Post and One News thats for sure.

  74. Andrew 74

    Quoth the Raven: “Israel broke the ceasefire first on November 4th”

    Absolute bollocks! The cease fire stated in june 2008 and rockets and morter fire were continually raining down into Israel. Hamas NEVER honored the cease fire, and never will for that matter. Israel responded to the rocket attacks and nothing else. Israel want to be able to stop these attacks from happening and will do all then can to achieve this aim.

    Dont get me wrong, war is bad. The death of any civillian is bad, but someone has to stop Hamas from firing at Israel!

  75. Quoth the Raven 75

    Andrew – A lot of groups fire rockets into Israel eg, Martyrs Brigade and the Badr Forces. The ceasefire was initiated by Hamas in the first place. You provide a link to an article, for instance from an Israeli newspaper like Haaretz, to back up your claim that Hamas broke the ceasefire before Nov 4th, otherwise it’s just another rightwingers blind assertion. From Electronic Intifada:
    The evidence for this is ready to hand. For example, the Wikipedia entry on the events of the summer, “List of rocket and mortar attacks in Israel in 2008” (revised 4 January 2008), based almost exclusively on Israeli newspapers and government sources, confirms that there were no rocket or mortar attacks claimed by or plausibly attributed to Hamas during the calm. This can also be verified by surveying archives of news reports from the period.

    The few that were launched, none of them causing any casualties, were claimed by the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, by Islamic Jihad, by “the Badr Forces,” or by nobody. Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh called repeatedly for a cessation of rocket fire, and denounced those factions who broke the truce. A Hamas spokesman criticized Fatah for allowing the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, which is affiliated with Fatah, to fire rockets. Meanwhile, Israeli occupation forces’ murders and settler pogroms continued unabated on the West Bank. They included an attempt by a settler to fire a homemade rocket toward the Palestinian village of Burin, which nearly killed another settler. During the lull, then, Israeli settlers fired more rockets (i.e., one) than did Hamas.

    In a document entitled “The Hamas terror war against Israel,” The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs provides striking visual evidence of Hamas’s good faith during the lull.

  76. sweeetdisorder 76

    “Israel’s latest attack on Gaza, purportedly to stop Hamas rocket attacks on Israel,…”

    The answer to your piece is right there, to stop the Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. I get the feeling you would like Hamas to continue them and Israel do nothing? Don’t be so stupid, a country will defend itself and take out the aggressor.

  77. John BT 77

    It appears that it is only the lefties who support the Hamas terrorists. Those guys would kill you if they could just because you are not of their religion. It does not compute.
    Why wasn’t everybody jumping up and down about all the Palestinians killed by Hamas? And continue to be killed by Hamas.
    They are murdering bloody fanatic terrorists.

  78. Quoth the Raven 78

    John BT, Andrew – I don’t support Hamas they are in many ways a detestable organisation, but I do so hate the constant lies from the Israeli side. It is Hamas who initiated the ceasefire. It is Hamas who offered Israel a ten year truce. It is Israel who broke the ceasefire. This defense from rocket attacks is a myth. Rocket attacks have increased hugely since the Israelis started this new wave of aggresion. And what were the Gazans to do as Israel blockaded them, leading to starvation and lack of medical supplies and broke the ceasefire? Nothing? Israel purposely targets civilians, they say so themselves, but you won’t hear that from our propaganda outlets that pass as news media. Israel have bombed hospitals, ambulances, schools, etc. And what good will it do but cement the hate that exists between the two sides and cause untold suffering on the 1.4million residents of Gaza. I would like to see peace judging from your comments you two just what to see people slaughtered.

    John BT – You don’t think the Israelis are religious nuts as well?

  79. Pascal's bookie 79

    How are these attacks supposed to accomplish their stated aim of preventing rocket attacks?

    Rocket attacks are pretty easy to pull off, they can be launched from anywhere and built in a basic workshop out of fertilizer, sugar and a piece of pipe.

    If the aim of the attack can’t be met by the attack, then Just War Theory tells us that the war is unjust.

    Other points:

    re ‘Is Israel an apartheid state’: Desmond Tutu says ‘yes’.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1957644.stm

    Someone asked ‘Where is the Palestinian Mandela?’ I’m confused by the question. Does it mean to suggest that the ANC were non violent (Mandela supported the 1961 decision of the ANC to move to a violent struggle), or that the Israeli’s do not hold political prisoners?

    re ‘the settlements’. Israel has no right to build structures in Gaza or on the West Bank, (that includes large parts of the wall btw), without annexing the territory and granting citizenship to the inhabitants (geneva conventions). They have the options of a) being an occupier and not granting citizenship, or b) annexing and being allowed to build permanent structures.

    re Hamas. Bad bastards. Duly elected government (thanks Bush and Condi!). Received early support from Israel as a counter to the PLO.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10456.htm

    re the ceasefire. Gaza has been under a blockade. That’s an act of war by most definitions. Just saying.

    Essentially my position is one of a pox on all their houses, but that doesn’t change the fact that one party has forced the other party to live stateless and under occupation for over a generation. This doesn’t ‘justify’ terrorism. Whatever that means. But by the same token, terrorism doesn’t ‘justify’ torture, occupation and intermittent slaughter. If Israel doesn’t give the Palestinians a state, then the Palestinians have nothing to lose from violent struggle. Actions such as the current one, can only buy a temporary respite at best, while pushing any two state solution further into the future. It aids only the extemists.

    So again, How are these attacks supposed to accomplish their stated aim of preventing rocket attacks?

    I suspect they won’t because they can’t. Israel knows this, they have an election coming up though and the incumbent was under pressure form the hardliners. That imlied explanation for the attack, while cynical, has the benefit over the official one of making sense.

  80. RedLogix 80

    It appears that it is only the lefties who support the Hamas terrorists. Those guys would kill you if they could just because you are not of their religion.

    Really why is it that righties spout such nonsense? I lived in Israel (many years ago) for a few months. It didn’t make me an expert on anything to do with the Middle East, but hell I do know that Muslims generally don’t around killing non-Muslims just because you happen to meet them in the street. Non-state actors like Hamas and Hezbollah are primarily political creatures, that exist ENTIRELY in response to the actions of Israel. They want to destroy Israel not because of religious differences, but because of what has been done to them in the last 60 years.

    It is a really worthwhile exercise to try and put yourself in the shoes of both a Jewish Israeli, and then a Muslim Palestinian for a while. Try and understand the history of what has happened here, and understand why it is that both groups have done so many stupid, counterproductive things to each other over the years, and as a result how much despair, grief and bitterness now lies between them.

    There are only two ways for the violence to stop. A lasting negotiated settlement, or the complete elimination of one party from the picture. There are no other options.

    The only effective defense is that which can be mounted by non-state organisations such as Hamas is informal guerrilla action. These organisations cannot be easily broken by normal military means, because as long as a defeated, subjugated and despairing population remains… they will continue to attract recruits and mount asymmetric operations, eg suicide bombers and primitive weapons, that cannot be suppressed without continuous, draconian and brutal police action.

    Nor is it realistic to demand that Hamas, and only Hamas, unconditionally surrender by ceasing all military action, if Israel offers NOTHING in return. The Gazan’s are living in an open-air prison camp, totally dependent on UN aid, subject to total restrictions and control by the Israeli’s. All of the the basics, food, water, medicine, electricity are subject to Israel’s control and whim. Palestine as it was drawn up by the UN decades ago has never existed, is now reduced to a handful of miserable enclaves. Those cursed to be born into them, live with no future and no hope. These desperate, despairing people will always be Israel’s enemy.

    So long as Israel continues to deny the Palestinians any hope or possibility of a better future … the hatred will fester, the violence will continue, and the options for a negotiated solution will diminish toward zero. A grim, inexorable logic inevitably (if not already) leaves only one remaining solution for Israel. To eliminate the threat altogether.. a deliberate genocide, murdering all 6 million odd Palestinians living in the region.

    Obviously any sane person would hope and pray that this is a hypothetical outcome, yet the path they are on has no other destination. Ironically enough of course, if Israel does commit such a Holocaust (and no other word would be applicable).. then the very justification for Israels’ own existence would fully nullified.

  81. Quoth the Raven 81

    Just for the rightwingers – Here’s a video from CNN of all places asking who broke the cesefire first – answer Israel:
    CNN Confirms Israel Broke Ceasefire First.
    Now when are we going to get a little questioning of Israel’s propaganda lines from our new media?

  82. Bill 82

    A Reuters and AP release headlined by the Independent under “Israel plans three-hour daily respite for Gaza”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-plans-threehour-daily-respite-for-gaza-1230406.html

    nicely skips any rationale for such a move. Israeli TV however, is apparently more upfront

    “Explaining to those viewers who might be wondering why Israel allows humanitarian assistance to the other side during times of war, he (Israeli Public TV Reporter) declared that if a full-blown humanitarian catastrophe were to explode among the Palestinian civilian population, the international community would pressure Israel to stop the assault.”

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090112/gordon?rel=hp_currently

    Got to give some respite if the torture is never going to stop…..nice.

    BTW, missing from any comments is a suggestion that both the Zionist state and the Palestinian state be pushed into the sea. Followed by the other 197 or whatever the number might be at present. So.

  83. @ work 83

    Preliminary discussions of a cease fire have started, I guess now the cluster bombs start raining down, not targetting civillians my arse.

  84. redrave 84

    “A slave-owner who through cunning and violence shackles a slave in chains, and a slave who through cunning and violence breaks the chains let not the contemptible eunuchs tell us that they are equals before a court of morality!”

    Leon Trotsky

    captcha: list remedy

  85. Mu'adh 85

    This article is typical of so many armchair leftist activists. You are awake enough to realise that the Palestinians are oppressed and occupied, yet you condemn their resistance. It is very clear that the white man’s burden still runs strong in your blood. You expect the Palestinians to patiently be slaughtered so that you can avoid feeling guilty and show that the side you (allegedly) support is moral due to a non-violent approach. By condemning the rocket attacks you are indirectly legitimising “Israel”‘s invasion of Gaza.

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  • Speech to Labour Party Congress 2020
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