Govt response to poverty report will tell us all we need to know about Bill English

Written By: - Date published: 8:04 am, December 13th, 2016 - 264 comments
Categories: bill english, class war, national, poverty - Tags: , , ,

The 2016 Child Poverty Monitor Technical Report is out today. A summary of the graphics from the Child Poverty Monitor is attached at the end of this post. Here is some of the media coverage.

RNZ:

Third generation of Kiwi children face life of poverty

The Children’s Commissioner has warned action needs to be taken, or New Zealand risks relegating a third generation of children to a life of poverty.

This year’s Child Poverty Monitor Report, released today, shows no real improvement in child poverty rates, with 295,000 children – 28 percent – living in low income homes.

More than 8 percent of children were in severe poverty. That meant 90,000 children experienced both material hardship and lived in a low-income home.

While child poverty was reasonably stable for several years, it was significantly worse than the 1980s.

In 1982, the percentage of children in families experiencing income poverty was 14 percent, compared to 28 percent now. …

Stuff:

‘Significant, enduring’ child poverty in New Zealand according to Child Poverty Monitor

New Zealand’s child poverty rates aren’t improving but we are starting to “wake up to the serious problem”, according to the 2016 Child Poverty Monitor.

The monitor, released on Tuesday morning, shows there has been no real improvement in child poverty rates.

Fourteen per cent of children are living in material hardship where they are living without seven or more necessary items for their wellbeing and 28 per cent of children are living in low income homes, up from 14 per cent in 1982.

Child poverty has been identified by New Zealanders in recent opinion polls as one of the most significant issues facing our country.

“New Zealanders are starting to wake up to the serious problem we face. We are in real danger of creating pockets of a third generation of ingrained poverty – which seriously impacts children’s health, ability to learn and contribute to society.”

New Zealand has a goal to halve all poverty by 2030.

“To attain this goal within the next 14 years, we need a plan to reduce child poverty. It must be a government led plan all New Zealanders can work towards. It should involve business, community and non-government groups.” …

Herald:

Children’s commissioner Andrew Becroft ‘shaken’ by extent of child poverty in New Zealand

Children’s commissioner Judge Andrew Becroft says he was “shaken” by the 2016 child poverty monitor, the first to be issued since he took the advocacy role.

Judge Becroft told the Otago Daily Times he will ask new Prime Minister Bill English to set a poverty reduction target, a request that was knocked back by former prime minister John Key.

Judge Becroft, who has been in the role for five months, hopes to have more success with English. … Key had said it was too difficult to set a specific target. …

So now we get to see what Bill English is made of. There have been many gushing words from certain commentators about his “compassionate conservatism” and the wisdom of his “social investment” approach. Now he’s in a position to act, to start addressing the Nats’ so far shameful record on poverty. So, what will Bill English’s government do about poverty – evasions, words, or actions?


Update:


Update: Bill fails.

264 comments on “Govt response to poverty report will tell us all we need to know about Bill English”

  1. Carolyn_nth 1

    In an interview yesterday on Checkpoint, English was talking about needing to build more “social” housing. Social housing is not state or public housing. HNZ needs more state housing for low income people. Contracting it out to charities and/or private (Aussie) companies won’t cut it.

    • saveNZ 1.1

      Yep, lets face it, if the government can’t even manage a state house portfolio successfully, they should not be in government!

    • michelle 1.2

      Bill English is actually a hypocrite to say he will now vote for gay marriage but doesn’t believe in abortion or euthanasia. He has also changed his tune why? has he and his government after 8 years realized many NZers are sick and tired of his government and their policies that have made the rich richer and the poor poorer. Remember he was responsible for implementing and developing the policy platforms for the gnats. Now he is talking from another song sheet people need to ask why? a change to be more inclusive all of sudden after 8 years.

      • Carolyn_nth 1.2.1

        Yes, same song, different arrangement.

        And the spin of Paula Bennett’s backstory – trying to mirror JK’s rise to power. When Key began with his state-house-to-Beehive narrative, he was a clean political skin – little record in politics to contradict that backstory.

        But Bennett (and Bill) come with parliamentary records that contradict their attempts at new (old) spin.

      • Gosman 1.2.2

        The statistics don’t seem to back you up on that

        http://www.statschat.org.nz/2013/12/09/inequality-in-nz/

        • michelle 1.2.2.1

          Whose stats are they gosman and how reliable are they because we all know how easy it is to manipulate stats and change how things are measured to suit ones own political agenda

          • Gosman 1.2.2.1.1

            The thing is michelle you haven’t even provided ANY statistics to back up your claims that this government has made poverty worse in NZ. I would be to happy to debate the reliability of statistics at the point YOU actually start using them.

            • McFlock 1.2.2.1.1.1

              Except the fact that the technical report in this post actually provides more up to date data than the drivel you offered.

              For example, figure 65 shows p80/20 increase in the 1990s, a drop between the 2004 and 2007 datapoints (especially for BHC w/kids, thanks WFF) and a cyclical increase since 2007.

              So the stats do actually back Michelle up on that.

              • Gosman

                No they don’t. The statistics suggests there was a rapid rise post 2007 till 2010. Given the policies enacted by National only started to have an effect from 2009 they can’t be blamed for the first part of that. Post 2010 the rate has fluctuated and on some measures is lower than it was when they took over. However the rate has not really moved significantly (i.e. more than 2 or 3 percent ) from the 2007 baseline. The point being is that that you lot can’t back up the oft reported claim that the current government has been making poverty and inequality worse. The most you can argue is that they are not really tackling it in an effective manner. That is not as a simplistic attack point though hence why you spin this for your own political advantage.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  That, and the homeless families.

                • McFlock

                  Post 2010 the rate has fluctuated and on some measures is lower than it was when they took over.

                  lol nice cherrypicking.

                  However the rate has not really moved significantly (i.e. more than 2 or 3 percent ) from the 2007 baseline. The point being is that that you lot can’t back up the oft reported claim that the current government has been making poverty and inequality worse.

                  Except that moving 2 or 3 percent from a measure of 20 or 30 percent is actually a ten percent change. Hell, it could be 40,000 more kids below the line. That might not be “significant” to you, but it is to them. And the point being is that in several measures, even with your cherry-picked time periods, it is demonstrably worse.

                  The most you can argue is that they are not really tackling it in an effective manner.

                  No, that’s merely the most you’ll admit. But even that is inexcusable.

                  • Gosman

                    How is using 2010 cheery picking data when National came in to office in 2008 and there was no real policy changes that would have impacted poverty rates till 2009 at the earliest?

                    • Paul

                      Wow!
                      Rather than being concerned by the amount of poverty in the country, you spend all your energy defending the government.
                      Why not put your energy into some solutions?

                    • McFlock

                      Because it’s picking the highest convenient value for comparison, which in turn helps you argue that this government is merely careless with the lives of tens of thousands of children, rather than being an active threat to their wellbeing and survival.

                    • Gosman

                      No, I’m countering the narrative that this government has made relative poverty levels worse than when they took over. It is quite clear that the poverty rates were rising when they took over as a result of the GFC. This continued till around 2010 when they started to fluctuate and have eventually fallen slightly. It is simply not true that the current government’s policies are making things worse.

                    • Paul

                      You don’t care about poverty.

                    • Gosman

                      I care about ensuring we focus on problems based on facts not emotions. Essentially your arguments boil down to ‘Won’t someone think about the little children’.

                    • McFlock

                      lol now your best argument is that poverty rates today are still only ever so slightly lower now than they were at the height of the GFC, six years ago.

                      Booming economy, yadda yadda, but poverty is static. Clap for you bastards. And yes, think of the children. Because obviously you’re not

                    • Tracey

                      So, this was the best we could hope from a “rock star” economy Gosman?

                      All this Growth and no real dent. wage increases of at best 1% for those working to generate the growth despite real inflation being higher (house prices for example not factored into CPI).

                      I rate ANY government on how well they speak of, and take care of, our vulnerable. We have had 30 years of “if we grow the economy everything will be taken care of” and there is now decades of evidence that growth is not the answer. Yet we keep using it as the yardstick.

                      So, if evidence is your yardstick Gosman, you must agree that we can’t keep doing the same stuff we have been doing for a few decades if we want to have an entire society that thrives?

      • Tracey 1.2.3

        Hi michelle

        I dont think he has changed his beliefs. he has had a couple of months of training before the PM announcement to become more key-like. remember whenKey started? he was put through training, like all PM’s. The Nats training is focussed on how to say what people want to hear rather than what you believe. In this regard he is passing the first Nats/Business test with flying colours. There is no way to prove or disprove what he would vote for today on things that have passed. he knows that and Joyce and his handlers know that so they get him making all these statements to paint him as socially liberal.

        That’s my take on it anyway

    • AB 1.3

      The purpose of housing is to not provide your citizens a secure healthy place to live from which they can make a contribution to society.
      The purpose of housing is to deliver unearned, untaxed capital gains to National Party supporters. Understand this and then everything they do on housing makes sense.

    • Gosman 1.4

      Why won’t it cut? Do people get better quality social housing from the State than from other sources? If so, where is the evidence backing this up?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      Measuring the effects of poverty, examining its victims, tut-tut-tutting over them. Anything other than address the underlying causes of the problem.

      Unfortunately, while the DMHDRU does all this good research, the Economics department is riddled with neo-liberals like a fly-blown sheep. They are the disease.

      What’s the cure?

      • Pat 2.1.1

        I think the suggestion is to measure and mitigate…….the conclusions of this study has the potential to improve the future of the individual and society as a whole…though there appears a hint of eugenics surrounding it.

        Obviously what actions are taken with this information would be critical but is it a discussion that will be seriously examined by the wider public?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1

          We are aware of the potential for misusing these findings, for stigmatising and stereotyping…

          My preferred option is to take steps to increase wages across the board, and keep post-hoc mitigation to a minimum.

          • Pat 2.1.1.1.1

            and you believe a) an increase in income across the board at the say bottom 20% of earners will resolve the issues outlined and b) that there is a greater chance the incomes of the lowest 20% will be sufficiently increased ahead of a targeted programme?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.1.1

              False dichotomy: action is needed right now. Putting robber barons like Mr. Peter Talley in their place will take time and legislation. In the meantime, mitigate by all means.

              Bear in mind that mitigation will immediately be fed to National’s raw meat as “bludging”. We need solutions that can survive right wing hate speech.

              • Sam C

                Sir Peter Talley to you.

                • DoublePlusGood

                  Mr Talley does not warrant his knighthood, given his behaviour toward his workers over decades. As such, many of us do not use the title when referring to him, preferring to reserve that for people who actually deserve such recognition.

                  • alwyn

                    “many of us do not use the title ”
                    A perfectly reasonable attitude.
                    That is just like the way I feel about Micky (Finn) Cullen.
                    And as for the “Right Honourable” HC. Please.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Get off your knees Sam.

              • Pat

                flowery….. but doesn’t answer the questions.

                but i guess it does answer one question at least from your perspective…its not a discussion that will be seriously examined.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  I answered your questions by stating that I think both courses of action are necessary, so I guess the specific answers are (a) “partially” and (b) it’ll be hard to tell with both in place.

                  • Pat

                    then it can hardly be a false dichotomy……and also think you have misunderstood b)….there is nothing to discern….it was asking which scenario was more likely to occur.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Sorry, I thought you were proposing a one-or-the-other question.

                      As for (b), in that case the answer is beyond my ken. The link I gave Gosman might shed some light. It provides evidence that a minimum wage hike may increase economic activity, but whether it would have a stronger effect than direct mitigation…in the long term I think so, but…?

                    • Gosman

                      You’re not just calling for an increase in the minimum wage though. You are actually asking for a general wage increase ACROSS the board. Ignoring for a moment that relative poverty levels won’t really be impacted if you do that you don’t have any evidence doing so won’t impact employment.

                  • Pat

                    a increase in income would solve many of the problems for many of the group noted….but not all. An increase in income won’t solve dysfunction, drug/alcohol abuse , lack of skills or health issues nor will it provide expertise and/or support…especially when the need is not recognised. It also assumes that the 20% identified are exclusively in the lowest income bracket.

                    When I have the time to concentrate on it I will read the report but from the outline I have seen it appears to me to be proposing a type of Plunket on steroids (at least by inference). If resourced well it could be hugely beneficial, unlike deinstitutionalisation which was adopted and not funded/supported.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Lifting the lowest 20% of salaries would lower the GINI, so would indeed have a significant effect on mental health issues such as substance abuse.

                      I’m also in favour of getting back to a top-notch well-funded education system.

                      My concern with the report is its focus on symptoms rather than causes. Unless we address the market and economic failure that is at the root of the problem, it’s a bottomless pit.

                    • Gosman

                      Cuba apparently made huge improvements in education. The country is still an economic basket case though. Increasing education without having an economy equipped to cope can just lead to highly educated unemployed young people. Look at southern Europe to see that effect.

                      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/world/europe/youth-unemployement-in-europe.html

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Gosh, so there are no other countries in the world for you to compare with? I know ignorance is a condition we all share, but yours seems a tad wilful.

                      Yep, as McFlock notes, you haven’t even looked at the information. Feet of clay, Gosman.

                    • Gosman

                      Cuba, Spain, Italy, France, Greece, Zimbabwe, South Africa ummm pretty sure I could provide a large number of countries where highly educated young people have a high unemployment rate.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Off you go then, make an extensive list that you can brandish at anyone who looks like they might be part of the solution.

                    • Tracey

                      Hi Pat

                      I haven’t read the report but have been wondering, since listening to Ritchie Poulton on the radio, were the tests conducted in English or the language of the child?

                    • Pat

                      Hi Tracey

                      The life course outcomes have been developed from the data of the Dunedin Study, which i assume was conducted in the language of those interviewed.

                      http://dunedinstudy.otago.ac.nz

            • Gosman 2.1.1.1.1.2

              What happens to people who don’t have jobs?

              • Pat

                is that addressed to me or OAB?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Mitigation, in whatever form it takes. Don’t worry, no-one expects you to be part of the solution.

                • Gosman

                  What do you mean mitigation?

                  If you increase wages across the board then two things are likely to occur at some stage.

                  1) The jobless rate will increase as some businesses (e.g. export orientated businesses) costs rise and they can’t recoup this from higher prices meaning they have to reduce overheads (usually by reducing staffing levels)

                  2) The income gap between those working and those not working rises and therefore poverty rates can actually increase.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    1) Bullshit. Yes I know it’s the dogma you believe very very hard, and the real world confounds you.

                    We do not find compelling evidence that the minimum wage has caused significant increases in business failure rates. Moreover, if there has been any increase in business closings caused by the Minimum Wage Ordinance, it has been more than offset by an
                    increase in business openings.

                    I suspect you know this, and are lying about it deliberately, because of your low character.

                    • Gosman

                      We aren’t talking about minimum wage ordinance here. I believe your argument is to increase wages ACROSS THE BOARD. It may have little impact at the low level the minimum wage impacts but for many businesses paying higher salaries paying higher salaries could well mean the difference between success and failure.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Fair enough, “across the board” was a poor choice of words. Pre-distribution is still a lot less complicated than re-distribution.

                    • Phil

                      We do not find compelling evidence that the minimum wage has caused significant increases in business failure rates.

                      “This report presents the short-run effects of the Seattle Minimum Wage Ordinance on the Seattle labor market”

                      Hmmm… yes, that’s perfectly applicable to New Zealand, sure.

                      But seriously, we know that around the world minimum wages tend to be set at specific levels for political, not economic, reasons.

                      What that ends up meaning is that often the minimum wage sits below the market clearing equilibrium price for labour and, consequently, raising the minimum wage is unlikely to have an impact on employment because the minimum is relatively ineffective, rather than inefficient.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Sure thing Phil. I could have quoted the Treasury Department, but I realise now that economic findings aren’t applicable to New Zealand.

                      Mind you, they drive on the right in Seattle, so I expect Physics doesn’t apply to them either.

                      But seriously, we know that economic theory is full of holes, and infested with dogma, so I admire your certainty.

                    • Phil

                      Right… so your comment boils down to “don’t talk economics to me – it’s wrong. You should just accept as gospel the economic paper I found.”

                      *slow clap*

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Nope, Phil. If you have a point other than you doubt everything, please make it sometime soon. “Perfectly applicable”? Can you say what you mean?

                      PS: I didn’t cite theory, I cited some observations.

                    • Tracey

                      “for many businesses paying higher salaries paying higher salaries could well mean the difference between success and failure.”

                      Could you post your evidence to support this statement?

                      For some businesses they could achieve this now but with a reduction in profit or a reduction in owner perks and salaries. How much is enough to earn is also the counter question? For example Paul Collins was in charge of Brierley’s during its decline and was paid 4m to leave. Then he took his expertise to a number of Boards (some government funded such as Sport NZ). When my employer declines the business I am employed in, I dont even get redundancy.

                  • Tracey

                    When a business like, say, a bank, makes 4 billion profit a year, do you think there is room for them to raise the wages of their employees?

                    • Phil

                      ANZ, New Zealand’s largest bank, made $1.5b profit in the year to September 2016. They have approximately 9,000 employees across the country and total “personnel expenses” of $894m. Theoretically, they could double the salary of everyone working for them and still make $600m in profit.

                    • Tracey

                      Thanks Phil. Exactly

  2. Rosemary McDonald 3

    “So, what will Bill English’s government do about poverty …?”

    What has been his openly declared agenda since 2010…..http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10644993

    Since I read that, six and a half years ago, NOTHING that has occurred involving government spending on social issues has surprised me.

    What really gets me sometimes is that National are still rating high in the polls despite more and more people from all strata of New Zealand society being directly negatively impacted by his ‘kick them when they’re down’ policies. Makes a non trusting person wonder if the polls could somehow be mistaken.

    Bill embraces the ‘building resilience’ ideology….make people and communities stand on their own two feet and not rely on state assistance. All well and good in theory, but fails when so many have poor foundations due to systemic failures and neglect in education, employment conditions and housing.

    We are now hearing more emphatic statements made in louder voices from government appointees such as Becroft, Boshier, Gibson, Henwood, Blue about what can only be described as human rights violations committed by this and previous governments.

    The sooner New Zealand is exposed on the world stage for the hypocrites we are the better.

    • saveNZ 3.1

      Maybe if governments bothered to have a taxation system that was fair and not full of loophole’s so that 38% of companies turning over $100 million plus in OZ, don’t pay a bean… it’s probably worse in NZ and the companies actually kill the worker’s aka Pike River, our government refuses to collect real statistics and publish them meaningfully, as well as avoiding other social responsibilities like taxation.

      We have a big corporate welfare problem in NZ that sucks out the social welfare while the MSM cheers them on and the opposition seems paralytic on the issue.

      “THE AUSTRALIAN TAX OFFICE (ATO) released the ‘Corporate Tax Transparency Report’ last week.

      It shows that 38% of the 1539 public and private foreign companies with turnover greater than $100 million paid no income tax in the 2013-14 financial year.

      https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/tax-big-business-avoidance-and-other-bruises,8509

      • Gosman 3.1.1

        Why do you think businesses should pay tax?

        • DoublePlusGood 3.1.1.1

          Because they earn income, so they should contribute tax just as private individuals pay tax on their income.

          • Gosman 3.1.1.1.1

            Money earned by businesses does get taxed. To claim otherwise ignores reality. Why do you want businesses taxed?

            • DoublePlusGood 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Did you even fucking read my previous comment?

              • Gosman

                And you didn’t understand mine. Money earned by a business including profits get’s taxed already. Why do you think it needs to be taxed at the business level?

      • Phil 3.1.2

        There is A LOT of confused reporting in that piece. It’s almost like the author has no comprehension that a company pays tax on its profits, not its revenue.

        • saveNZ 3.1.2.1

          Yes, Phil and so easy to hide your profits, money transfers and routs and loopholes so that 38% of $100 million dollar companies can avoid paying taxes.

          By the same token, workers can’t claim ‘expenses’ on PAYE, in addition companies that do not avoid taxes are at a disadvantage, so there seems to be a double standard going on.

          • Gosman 3.1.2.1.1

            Companies can hide all the profits they like. They will still have to pay tax on them eventually.

            • DoublePlusGood 3.1.2.1.1.1

              You do know what a tax haven is, yes?

            • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.1.2.1.1.2

              Except the owners who can buy and sell the company for a tax-free capital gain – a practice most common among the rich, and not available to those unable to afford to own a company.

    • AB 3.2

      Yep – “building resilience” is the sort of crap that expensive business ‘coaches’ talk about when they come in to companies and ‘train’ middle managers who are imprisoned in a meeting room for 2 days.
      From there it can easily spread it’s insidious tentacles out into the wider community. It’s code for abandonment, sink or swim. And if you are a worthy person you will swim, and if you sink that’s because you are unworthy and ultimately perhaps it’s better in that case that you do sink.

      • Rosemary McDonald 3.2.1

        Yep…its a movement…an actual thing.

        Trending now!

      • Incognito 3.2.2

        When you associate “building resilience” with ”the sort of crap that expensive business ‘coaches’ talk about when they come in to companies and ‘train’ middle managers who are imprisoned in a meeting room for 2 days” it seems to trigger a very negative response.

        I have another view of “building resilience”, i.e. in the context of earthquake-hit regions and cities. This happens to be one of the National Science Challenges: Resilience to Nature’s Challenges.

        https://www.resiliencechallenge.nz/

        Do you think there are fundamentally different forms or levels of resilience?

    • Nick 3.3

      I am sure these Politicians would complain and change ‘building resilience’ ideology if it affected them directly. But they have built such a cosy nest…..

  3. saveNZ 4

    “To attain this goal within the next 14 years, we need a plan to reduce child poverty. It must be a government led plan all New Zealanders can work towards. It should involve business, community and non-government groups.”

    Simple answer – vote the National government out – they have led 8 years of worsening poverty – time to go….

    • michelle 4.1

      Agree with save NZ . If we haven’t learnt from the last 8 years we will never learn
      Now the gnats front has gone we can see the true blue rotten party the gnats really are and will always be the party where inequalities always come to the fore.

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.2

      “Simple answer – vote the National government out – they have led 8 years of worsening poverty – time to go….”

      It is not as simple as ‘vote National out”.

      National has to be replaced by something better.

      Labour has to prove that the neo liberal policies the party embraced and foisted onto the country have been forever abandoned….and I can’t see them doing this at this point in time.

      These structures have been building for over two decades and have become totally integrated into many, if not most government funded ‘supports’.

      Organisations, profits and non profits, who have built empires on the back of providing disability supports amounting to $billions each year across ACC, MOH, DHBs and MSD have never, ever met the full needs of their client base, can refuse to provide services if clients fall into some arbitrary category of “too high” and leave these people incarcerated in appalling conditions…or dependent on family support….which of course is not funded, or funded at a much lower level than ‘professional support’.

      There are some in the disability community who say that the system is broken…and only complete destruction and removal of ALL personnel who have enabled the system to thrive (from the providers perspective) will effect meaningful change.

      Seeing what has happened as a result of privatisation of the disability sector has made me more aware, and nervous as the race is on to do the same for housing and….more worryingly…child welfare and health.

    • Gosman 4.3

      The statistics don’t support that statement. See my above post.

    • Gosman 4.4

      There is little evidence that poverty rates have got significantly worse over the past 8 years

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.4.1

        Then stop cherry-picking your start date and go back to 1982. Define “little” and “significantly”. I expect the extra families living in cars will be delighted to hear how insignificant they are.

        • Gosman 4.4.1.1

          I’m not cheery picking the start date. It was chosen by the numerous leftist comments on here who claim this government has made poverty and inequality worse in their time in power. Unless you are trying to argue they have in fact been in power since 1982.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.4.1.1.1

            This government has made poverty and inequality worse in the last eight years, according to you. You claim it’s “little” and “insignificant”, but since you refuse to define or quantify these terms…how about I consult my memory of the relative number of beggars on the streets…

            Yep, you’re wrong again: they seem significant to me.

            • Gosman 4.4.1.1.1.1

              What was the GINI coefficient in 2008 and what is it now?

              What was the Poverty rate in 2008 and what is it now?

              Please provide links to statistics backing your claims up.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                What McFlock said. And UNICEF. And the Sallies.

              • McFlock

                geez, you really couldn’t be bothered reading the post, could you.

              • wellfedweta

                1. Income inequality since 1982 is graphed at http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-social-indicators/Home/Standard%20of%20living/income-inequality.aspx

                There has been virtually no change since 1994, and very little change since 1982.

                2. The GINI increased during the late 1950’s and early 1990’s, but has remained virtually unchanged since the mid 1990’s. http://www.statschat.org.nz/2013/12/09/inequality-in-nz/. This is in direct contradiction to the claims of many on the far left. And from most Labour members of parliament.

                Note – Frankly I don’t see the problem as inequality, unless we live in a country of envy. I don’t care whether my brother earns twice what I earn, as long as I have the basic necessities of life. Also, it is not the governments job to ensure equality of outcome. It is the governments job to attempt to achieve equality of opportunity.

                The next question is – if inequality has not changed since the mid 1990’s, and since 2008 there have been significant increases in the minimum wage and real wages, why is the left claiming poverty has increased? The answer to that is complex, and is found in more detailed studies, such as the Dunedin Study.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Your witless dickhead failure to redefine inequality to mean whatever you want it to mean is duly ridiculed. No-one cares what you reckon.

                  • wellfedweta

                    The GINI is not my attempt to redefine inequality. But it doesn’t suit your misrepresentation of reality, I do understand that.

  4. Draco T Bastard 5

    So, what will Bill English’s government do about poverty – evasions, words, or actions?

    Probably the same as any National government – kick them while they’re down and blame them for the kicking.

  5. Karen 6

    Bill has Minister of Finance over the past 8 years and therefore he is the one who is responsible for increased poverty in this time. Cuts in health spending, welfare reforms and selling off state housing are down to Bill English.

    The “social investment” approach is just a way of reducing social spending by pushing the responsibility for poor outcomes onto private companies. The pretence that private enterprise does a better job than the state is crap. All that happens is that private companies are better able to hide the true outcomes while sending all their profits overseas. Compass and Serco are good examples. “Compassionate” conservative? You have to be kidding.

    I don’t agree with everything here but Easton has summed up Bill’s role quite well.
    http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/letter-to-bill

    As for Bennett – while on DPB she was able to give up her part-time work that she found hard without any penalty but she insists solo-parents have to find work when their child turns 3. Paula got a training incentive allowance that allowed her to go to university – her first job as Social Development minister was to scrap the TIA. She also got rid of Sickness Benefit replacing it with a Jobseeker Benefit. If you haven’t seen the film “I, Daniel Blake” then I suggest you do so. Paula consulted with the UK before bringing this same inhumane system to NZ.

    Bill English said on Morning Report this morning that he had given every beneficiary family an extra $25. This is a lie. Very few qualified for the full $25 – many got nothing. Even for those who did qualify for for a few extra dollars it was not nearly enough to make up for the massive increase in accommodation costs that Bill is in part responsible for..

    Expect a lot more about Bill English the “compassionate” conservative and Paula Bennett the teenage solo mum who climbed to the top in the media. Hopefully some journalists will dig a little deeper but I’m not holding my breath.

    • Bob 6.1

      Sorry Karen, I only got to “Bill has Minister of Finance over the past 8 years and therefore he is the one who is responsible for increased poverty in this time” and you lost me.
      Did you even look through the report? Almost all poverty measures peaked in 2011 at the height of the GFC and have now dropped back to, or below the level they were at in 2008 when Bill English became Minister for Finance.
      Hard to make an argument around Bill English being responsible for increased poverty when the report this post is based on doesn’t back up what you are saying.

      • Gosman 6.1.1

        Yes there is little evidence that poverty rates have increased dramatically since 2008

        • Paul 6.1.1.1

          Why not be honest, Gosman?
          You don’t care abut the poor.

          • Bob 6.1.1.1.1

            Why not be honest, Paul?
            You haven’t even looked at the report.

          • Gosman 6.1.1.1.2

            Why don’t you guys be honest? You don’t really care about the true state of poverty in NZ. You just like to use the issue as an attack against a political grouping you don’t like. Trying to pretend the current government has made inequality and poverty worse is not supported by much in the way of evidence.

            • McFlock 6.1.1.1.2.1

              Careful, gos, your moral compass is showing.

              Just because you don’t give a shit about poverty, it doesn’t mean that others are just as fucked up as you.

        • michelle 6.1.1.2

          Of course the report is written to appease who and hide what, we aren’t stupid we can see how our country has gone downhill in the last 8 years. Our govt have received many reports in the 8 years and dismissed them and the contents. This government has been damaging our country and our people and they ignore and denigrate any reports when they don’t like what they hear now you are trying to shuff a report down people throats and expect us to believe it is gospel after all the lies and half truths we have been fed get real gosman.
          What about Pulla Rebstocks 500 k MFAT leak inquiry the one that your govt had to pay the public servants an undisclosed amount. This is the sort of rot we have in govt now and this is just the tip of the iceberg . And by the way gosman we are still waiting for our Saudi trade deal the one that cost us tax payers 11.5 million any updates for us Bro

          • Gosman 6.1.1.2.1

            Once again no statistics just your emotive view on the subject. Except your emotive view hasn’t really been terribly successful at convincing more than half the electorate has it? Why don’t you try something new and provide some hard evidence to support your position?

        • saveNZ 6.1.1.3

          Go down Queen ST in Auckland, Gosman!

          • saveNZ 6.1.1.3.1

            Maybe like the Freshwater111 site – there should be a homeless site with proof for the skeptics like Gossie and John Key and other RWNJ (but with faces obscured so that homeless people are not further victimised).

            https://web.facebook.com/groups/freshwater111/

            • Gosman 6.1.1.3.1.1

              So you haven’t got any links to any sites with actual statistical evidence then? Why not if it is such a no brainer that this government has caused a sustained increase in poverty and inequality?

              • McFlock

                What, you mean other than the child poverty monitor site that’s in the fucking post?

                How about the nice wee Census comparison that shows a larger proportion of people in severe housing deprivation in the last census?

                • Gosman

                  We’ve already discussed this. Child poverty rose from 2007 to 2010 and then has drifted up and down. There is no evidence that it is getting worse on a consistent basis (which is what you would expect if people here were correct and the current government’s policies are designed to hurt the poor).

                  • adam

                    OH for god sake, who cares if it it getting worse. The fact its so high already – IS THE PROBLEM!

                    So stop trying to score points with kids lives you tosser.

                  • McFlock

                    Child poverty rose from 2007 to 2010 and then has drifted up and down.

                    More up than down on most measures, and roughly the same on the other measures.

                    Funny how it seems to get worse then remain static under tory governments, isn’t it. And that that’s the best you can say about them: gets worse, then stays the same.

                    • Gosman

                      It got worse under a policy framework that was mainly reflective of a center left government. The main influence subsequent is housing costs which are caused by the fact we are not building enough houses to satisfy demand. Free that market up and poverty rates will decrease.

                    • McFlock

                      more fucking lies.
                      Key was never centre left.
                      Nor was Richardson.

      • Karen 6.1.2

        Actually Bob, I did read the report. I suggest you do so again.
        Re child poverty:

        “The promising decline seen from 2001 to 2007 when policies such as Working for Families contributed to some families’ income increasing, has not been maintained. Between 2007 and 2010 child poverty rates increased (reflecting the time of the global financial crisis), then declined, so that in 2013 the rates were nearly equal to those in 2007.”

        Let’s not blame the GFC. After all there were plenty of people who got rich during that time. Just not the poor. Oh and Bill English approved tax cuts didn’t he?

        Perhaps you are just looking at measurements that do not take housing costs into account.

        “In New Zealand the most rapid rises in income inequality occurred from 1988 to 1992. From 2004 to 2007 income inequality fell, particularly for households with children, after the introduction of the Working for Families (WFF) package. Unemployment rates also fell during this period. There has been more volatility in the P80:P20 ratio since the 2008 global financial crisis. Housing costs contribute to income inequality as they usually take up a greater proportion of household income for households on lower incomes than those on higher incomes. Although the P80:P20 ratio BHC (before housing costs) suggests that inequality was fairly stable from 2000–2015, the P80:P20 ratio AHC (after housing costs) indicates that inequality increased from 2008 to 2015 and was close to the previous high point before the 2004 WFF package.”

        • Bob 6.1.2.1

          So you read the report, actually quoted back to me the point that by 2013 “the rates were nearly equal to those in 2007.” and quoted ” (reflecting the time of the global financial crisis)” which was stated as the reason for the rise from 2007 – 2010, then decided to ignore the 2015 data which showed further drops in poverty across almost every measure and still say “Bill has Minister of Finance over the past 8 years and therefore he is the one who is responsible for increased poverty in this time”?

          “Oh and Bill English approved tax cuts didn’t he?”
          Yes he did, they came into effect October 1st 2010. Go back to the report and have a look what happened to poverty levels from that date.

          “Perhaps you are just looking at measurements that do not take housing costs into account.”
          Fair point, ‘Hospitalisations due to assault, neglect or maltreatment’, ‘Deaths from assault, neglect or maltreatment’, ‘Deaths from conditions with a social gradient’, ‘Sudden unexpected death in infancy’, ‘Severe poverty’, ‘Material hardship’ and ‘Child poverty’, are all at or below 2008 levels (you seemed to miss these), but taking housing costs into account poverty levels have increased.
          Good news for you though Karen, looks like that may be changing too: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11765203

          I take it based on these numbers you will be voting National in 2017?

          • Karen 6.1.2.1.1

            You are being very selective again, Bob. I have better things to do that engage with people like you so I would suggest everybody should read the report themselves and ignore everything that does not include housing costs as there is no point to any measure that does not include the cost of housing. Then they should reflect on the fact that the number of homeless has increased and ponder on how many of these people will get counted in a household survey.

    • Nick 6.2

      Nice comment Karen….PB….pulling up the ladder as fast as she can.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.3

      The “social investment” approach is just a way of reducing social spending by pushing the responsibility for poor outcomes onto private companies.

      The ‘social investment’ approach is all about shifting government money into private profit. It has no other purpose.

      “Compassionate” conservative? You have to be kidding.

      Sociopathic, greedy scum would be a far more accurate description.

      • Gosman 6.3.1

        And that is why you are unlikely to get much traction for your ideas Draco. While there may indeed be sociopathic greedy scum business people out there labelling them all this is just going to alienate people who may be interested in some of what you have to say but either know and like or are business people themselves. The good thing from my perspective is telling you this won’t ever change your mind as you will continue to do so. The bad thing from my perspective is you’re such a fringe dweller on the left of the political spectrum you have no real influence on any left grouping that could pose a danger to my world view.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.1

          If they don’t like it then perhaps they should stop being sociopathic, greedy scum.

          As for others liking them – well, psychopaths really are known for being very charming while lying to your face.

    • Pat 6.4

      “The “social investment” approach is just a way of reducing social spending by pushing the responsibility for poor outcomes onto private companies.”

      that may well be behind the agenda of this government but there is no need for the concept to involve private enterprise to any great degree or potentially even at all.
      The logic of identifying and assisting individuals/families at risk BEFORE the damage is done is beyond argument however the practicality of implementation is fraught with potential dispute…..as always the devil is in the detail.

      There is no reason why Labour couldn’t appropriate and enhance a Nat policy for a change.

  6. adam 7

    I see Gossy is at his usual and I’m not sure why people argue with him, this is an individual who put Pinochet on a pedestal, economically. If that is his logic, do you think mutual aid, or stopping poverty is somthing he actually cares about? It is his rather fixed, and rabid ideology which worships money over people – which is on display.

    So my advise, don’t feed the ideology of selfishness. People like gossy feed off it, they like proving that there selfish, it’s all about me, my way of economics is the only answer. If you look at his arguments this morning, not only is it desperate, it is t.i.n.a, very little actually looking for solutions, and nothing for wanting us to be better human beings.

    Nothing you can say will influence gossy, ideology rules OK, so don’t bother.

    Instead, work on solutions to end poverty, here you actually have to look at the base of a society, which is run by, and for those who are ideologically tethered to radical liberalism.

    • McFlock 7.1

      goss’s role at times like these is to sow misinformation, minimise the demonstrable, and outright lie about the obvious, all while pretending to sound reasonable.

      goss is a deplorable piece of shit, but today’s unchallenged lie becomes tomorrow’s accepted truth.

      • Red 7.1.1

        No he just put forwards facts and stats, you and others emotion hyperbole and the odd personal observation or testimony that supports your view, ideology and some how this trumps facts, go figure ?

        • adam 7.1.1.1

          So red or what ever other names you go by. I see you went straight for trolling. But what facts? What numbers, the out of date ones?

          But then maybe you could think things through, but I’m at the point you may not, much simpler to be a typical alt-right spoiler ah red, much much simpler.

        • McFlock 7.1.1.2

          But if he had a leg to stand on, he could merely use the facts and stats in the child poverty monitor, rather than searching for his own.

          Yes, I’m emotional, but it’s not hyperbole. Child poverty is why I especially hate this ladder-kicking bunch of sociopaths. Kids being admitted to hospital due to conditions that are directly linked to overcrowding is why I especially hate this government. Poor housing being named as a direct contributor to the deaths of babies is why I hate this government.

          And yes, Labour did it too and every government for the last thirty years has ignored or slapped ineffectually the growing problems. But at least most of the other parties view it as a bad thing, and if you squint really hard you could believe that they are merely on the wrong track in their attempts or too small in parliament to address the problem. But you fuckwits give the distinct impression that you don’t even care.

          That’s the insult. That’s the crime. That’s the obscenity. You bastards don’t even care.

          • ropata 7.1.1.2.1

            The beancounter is in charge of NZ now. Poor people are a cost to be minimised and/or swept under the carpet. Social investment is far too long term for Bling’s ideological budget surplus. Shame that the human cost is not on his ledger.

            It is on God’s ledger though. Repent Bill!! (various quotes from openbible.info)

            Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.

            For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

            Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.

            Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

            Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

            Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.

            But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

          • wellfedweta 7.1.1.2.2

            Hi McFlock

            I think people do care, but maybe we need to discuss solutions, rather than arguing about the numbers. We live in a country where we spend an increasing amount of money on welfare, where we have an internationally high minimum wage, where education and healthcare all but free, yet we have people falling through the cracks. We can blame governments, poor parenting, laziness, neo-liberalism, or any other ‘ism’ you choose to invent, but that doesn’t actually help anyone. So here’s a challenge. What would you do to reduce child poverty?

            • McFlock 7.1.1.2.2.1

              First step to identifying solutions is to assess the nature and extent of the problem.

              Denial of the problem when it’s listed in such detail brings one’s concern into doubt.

              • wellfedweta

                But there are plenty of reports about this problem. Who cares about the extent of it. What do we do to fix it?

                • McFlock

                  We need to know the extent of it to see whether we have improved the situation or made it worse. Currently we’ve made it worse, unless you take gosman’s sunny view that we’ve note changed it in any significant way in almost the past decade.

                  Easiest way to end poverty: give poor people money on a weekly basis, via benefits and wages if they have jobs.

                  Cheaper but more difficult way to end poverty: well-fund a copious supply of doctors, social workers, and teachers. Provide free childcare and education to tertiary level. Fund it by having those who benefitted disproportionately from the intelligence of previous governments taxed at a slightly higher rate than those who did not receive that same level of benefit, rather than enabling the disproportionate beneficiaries kick the ladders away behind them. As well as give poor people money on a weekly basis, via benefits and wages if they have jobs.

                  Expensive way to perpetuate the problem: underfund everything and build more prisons. Pretend increases in minimum wage to living wage level will do more harm than good. Pretend nothing needs to be done, or if something needs to be done then nothing can be done, or if something can be done pretend it’s too late now. Standard tory playbook.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    underfund everything and build more prisons. Pretend increases in minimum wage to living wage level will do more harm than good. Pretend nothing needs to be done, or if something needs to be done then nothing can be done, or if something can be done pretend it’s too late now.

                    That’s worth a post all on its own. just to remind people what the National Party is. Why aren’t you an author McFlock?! Please consider it. Your input has so much value.

                    • McFlock

                      bit busy these days. Besides, this denialist bullshit is bad formy blood pressure. Fucking tories.

                  • Gosman

                    Except Sweden does all those things and their poverty rates have tracked slightly upwards recently.

                    • McFlock

                      More proof you prefer to make shit up rather than read the post or the links in the post.

                      figure 23.

                      Feel free to compare sweden and NZ levels if you have more recent data. Bryan Perry might like to see it, too.

                    • Gosman

                      I didn’t state they were higher than us. I stated their recent trends have been negative while ours has been stable.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, indeed.

                      Tracked upwards ever so slightly while still being far below NZ, who choose to follow policies that benefit only the rich.

                      We should only pray that we do as badly at addressing the poverty problem as Sweden, even with the slight swedish uptick. Hey, maybe we could copy their policies just to enjoy their Fury Road level of inequality and social decay.

                  • wellfedweta

                    Thanks McFlock, at least you have attempted to answer my question. How would determine who is ‘poor’? In principle I want to help people, but I am not interested in subsidising people who could do more to help themselves. How do we achieve this balance?

                    • weka

                      For every 100 people in need that get helped, how many people are you willing to subsidise who could do more to help themselves? How would you determine who those latter people are?

                    • wellfedweta

                      “For every 100 people in need that get helped, how many people are you willing to subsidise who could do more to help themselves? How would you determine who those latter people are?”

                      Excellent question.

                      1. As many as meet the criteria.
                      2. I don’t believe determining those in genuine need is that hard. Between the Police, a revitalized MfVC and other government and non-government agencies, I believe we could weed out those who on the take.

                    • weka

                      Did you misunderstand the question or did I misunderstand your earlier statement? You said,

                      “In principle I want to help people, but I am not interested in subsidising people who could do more to help themselves.”

                      By “people who could do more to help themselves” I took you to mean people who you think shouldn’t have assistance. I want to know how many of those people you would be willing to subsidise in order to help 100 people who need help? Is it zero? Or a number higher than that?

                      What is MfVC?

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, so the person who didn’t need to know the extent of the problem now wants a precise definition of it?

                      From a population level, I’ll start with anyone living <50% of the median household income or living in extreme hardship as defined as meeting seven or more "lacks" in dep17 or the equivalent MWI.

                      At a case level, I'd say anyone who relies on social workers, food banks or government transfers to live, as determined by those organisations on a case by case basis.

                      But, to quote John Oliver, the poverty level is a bit like the age of consent for sex: if you feel the need to parse exacty where it is, the chances arethat you've already done something very, very wrong. So I don't care if the people who are poor don't meet your level of whether they deserve your condescending assistance.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Oh, so the person who didn’t need to know the extent of the problem now wants a precise definition of it?”

                      No. Where did I ask that? There are plenty of definitions. Let’s get on with fixing it.

                    • Muttonbird

                      @Weka.

                      Ministry for Vulnerable Children. Even righties can’t bear the name so they can’t bring themselves to use it.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “By “people who could do more to help themselves” I took you to mean people who you think shouldn’t have assistance.”

                      Not zero, but close to it. Again each case needs to be assessed. You can’t just make a decision based on subjective criteria. That’s why I support the cross agency information sharing we are using a lot more of, and it is why I support much of what English etc have been doing to target investment where it is most needed.

                      Throwing money at dysfunction has been tried and failed. We need a more targeted, evidence based approach, and that is what I see happening now. More to come.

                    • McFlock

                      “Oh, so the person who didn’t need to know the extent of the problem now wants a precise definition of it?”

                      No. Where did I ask that? There are plenty of definitions.

                      You asked how to determine who is poor. Given that income, assets, expenditures and social service use are trivially available on a routine basis, that leaves only the definition against which those are measured.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “You asked how to determine who is poor.”
                      Yes. Which is quite different to not knowing the ‘extent of the problem’.

                      “Given that income, assets, expenditures and social service use are trivially available on a routine basis, that leaves only the definition against which those are measured.”

                      That isn’t much use. Two people can exist on exactly the same income levels, one do well, the other not. Defining poverty as a % of some wage number is equally silly, as has been demonstrated often. Poverty is being without, not being with less than the rest.

                    • McFlock

                      “You asked how to determine who is poor.”
                      Yes. Which is quite different to not knowing the ‘extent of the problem’.

                      Indeed. It does, however, require a benchmark definition of “poor” against which one can make the determination.

                      Two people can exist on exactly the same income levels, one do well, the other not. Defining poverty as a % of some wage number is equally silly, as has been demonstrated often. Poverty is being without, not being with less than the rest.

                      And of course “being without” is exactly what is covered by the MWI/Dep17 measures to which I referred. But median income measures are more comprehensively obtained and measurably correlate to similar outcomes reflected by material hardship, so can act as a reasonably accurate proxy at a policy level. However, you will also note that I included some case assessment criteria to catch any who were missed by the broader instruments.

                      Yes, some will live with dignity on lower incomes – the fewer number the lower the income. I’m happy for them. Who really gives a shit if a beneficiary can afford a boutique beer now and then. My concern is for those who need more to live in dignity – that is how I measure the success of the policy. Not on whether someone might get a little bit more than they need, but whether anybody in this land of plenty simply cannot make their ends meet.

                      And this country is failing dismally by that measure. Not because of distribution inaccuracy at the lower end, but the unwillingness to take it off the people at the top end.

                    • wellfedweta

                      ” It does, however, require a benchmark definition of “poor” against which one can make the determination.”

                      Determining whether a single person (which was the question) is poor, is very different to determing the ‘extent of the problem’.

                      “And this country is failing dismally by that measure. Not because of distribution inaccuracy at the lower end, but the unwillingness to take it off the people at the top end.”

                      That doesn’t work. Never has. We pour money at the ‘poor’ now. More than ever before. Yet you claim the problem gets worse. Doesn’t this resonate with you in any way at all?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      It resonates with me: false narratives about poverty are nothing but hate speech.

                      You need to do more homework.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “It resonates with me: false narratives about poverty are nothing but hate speech.”

                      Oh my little snowflake. Please do tell me what McFlock or said that was a ‘false narrative’?

                    • McFlock

                      Creating population benchmarks of “poor” means the government doesn’t need to spend hours interviewing every single person just to make sure they fit your definition of “poor”.

                      Your tightwad nature actually costs more money to implement in the real world than being at home with the fact that no system can every perfectly divide the “poor in need of assistance” from the rest of the population, and erring on the side of caution.

                      We don’t “pour money at the poor” now.
                      We throw money at a currently dysfunctional system that harrasses everyone who applies, drives people to suicide, puts its own employees at risk of serious harm and death, and still does next to nothing to address the problem.

                      When we had a genuine social welfare system, rather than a system of alienation and exploitation, we spent less money and had much less poverty. It wasn’t perfect, but it was a fuck of a lot better than it is today. That does “resonate” with me.

                      But you want to quibble about whether this person or that person is poor and deserves your precious assistance. Hundreds of thousands of people would need to be intensively assessed before you’ll pretend to start looking at solutions. The only “resonance” you have is the echo as conceit rattles around the vacuum between your ears.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Wellrehearsedgimp, in your own words you “detest” people. You are motivated by hate.

                      Consolidated wrote a song about you.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Creating population benchmarks of “poor” means the government doesn’t need to spend hours interviewing every single person just to make sure they fit your definition of “poor”.”
                      Then, based on your criteria, we will allocate resources to people who are abusing the system. That is a waste of money.

                      “Your tightwad nature actually costs more money to implement in the real world than being at home with the fact that no system can every perfectly divide the “poor in need of assistance” from the rest of the population, and erring on the side of caution.”
                      No, I disagree. By implementing greater accountability, the genuine needy will be able to access more targeted services.

                      “We don’t “pour money at the poor” now.”
                      Yes, we do. At record levels.

                      “We throw money at a currently dysfunctional system that harrasses everyone who applies, drives people to suicide, puts its own employees at risk of serious harm and death, and still does next to nothing to address the problem.”
                      Hyperbole. But I agree with you the system needs change, and that is what we’re seeing happen.

                      “When we had a genuine social welfare system, rather than a system of alienation and exploitation, we spent less money and had much less poverty. It wasn’t perfect, but it was a fuck of a lot better than it is today. That does “resonate” with me.”
                      What you’re referring to was not a welfare system, it was an economy protected by access to guaranteed markets within the commonwealth. Times have changed.

                    • McFlock

                      Then, based on your criteria, we will allocate resources to people who are abusing the system. That is a waste of money.

                      No they’re not – they qualify so they’re entitled. No it’s not, because the alternative is to send massive amounts of money on assessing each and every applicant to the nth degree.

                      No, I disagree. By implementing greater accountability, the genuine needy will be able to access more targeted services.

                      But how much does that “accountability” cost? The more hoops people jump through, the more bureaucrats you need. And the greater the chance that people in genuine need will be unable to satisfy all your “accountability” requirements.

                      “We don’t “pour money at the poor” now.”
                      Yes, we do. At record levels.

                      Massive amounts of that money don’t actually reach the poor. They go to the bureaucracy.

                      “We throw money at a currently dysfunctional system that harrasses everyone who applies, drives people to suicide, puts its own employees at risk of serious harm and death, and still does next to nothing to address the problem.”
                      Hyperbole.

                      A current coroners inquest and recent worksafe prosecution suggest not hyperbole at all.

                      But I agree with you the system needs change, and that is what we’re seeing happen.

                      For the worse: more harrassment, less assistance.

                      What you’re referring to was not a welfare system, it was an economy protected by access to guaranteed markets within the commonwealth. Times have changed.

                      Oh bullshit. Not only do the timeframes between the NZ welfare state destruction and UK common market entry not match up, nothing in those changing times required that we start treating people like shit. That’s purely down to your corrupt ideology.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “No they’re not – they qualify so they’re entitled. No it’s not, because the alternative is to send massive amounts of money on assessing each and every applicant to the nth degree.”

                      I hear what you’re saying, but my point is over the long term the investment can be allocated over less families, because the ones who are not genuinely in need will find out the system is too robust.

                      “A current coroners inquest and recent worksafe prosecution suggest not hyperbole at all.”

                      Sorry you may need to elaborate on what you mean.

                      “Oh bullshit. Not only do the timeframes between the NZ welfare state destruction and UK common market entry not match up, nothing in those changing times required that we start treating people like shit. That’s purely down to your corrupt ideology.”

                      The time frames do match. The full impact of entry of GB into the EEC took years to impact on NZ. And we don’t treat people like shit, at least not often and not as a matter of policy. In fact we have one of the most generous welfare systems in the world. Finally my ideology is not corrupt. It is somewhere near the prevailing thinking in vast swathes of the planet that is reducing poverty and empowering initiative and enterprise.

                    • McFlock

                      Ok,so now we all know that you don’t follow news headlines in NZ, you have no idea about the process that friends of mine are going through right now and how they are treated, and that you prioritise “not giving people more than they need” over “give people all that they need”. Because that last one is a practical dichotomy.

                      Oh, and we also now know that you confuse “not corrupt” with “most people I can think of do it”. Which is an interesting juxtaposition with your attitudes to beneficiaries, but whatever, dude.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Ok,so now we all know that you don’t follow news headlines in NZ, ”

                      If you seriously think that the entry of the UK into the EEC had nothing to do with the reforms of the 1980’s in NZ or of the economic challenges this country faced from then, then you clearly have zero grasp on reality.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      @McFlock: Idly speculating whether Maninthemiddle’s non-sequitur is a consequence of illiteracy, or a tacit surrender.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “…and we also now know that you confuse “not corrupt” with “most people I can think of do it”.”

                      That’s plain dishonest. But then you don’t know what trend analysis is, so I presume you don’t know what juxtaposition means either. You really are getting desperate.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The prevailing characteristic of this thread is that McFlock is right.

                    • McFlock

                      Why do you think the statement “my ideology is not corrupt” is at all relevant to whether it is “somewhere near the prevailing thinking” anywhere in the world?

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Why do you think the statement “my ideology is not corrupt” is at all relevant to whether it is “somewhere near the prevailing thinking” anywhere in the world?”

                      I don’t. You need to read my full quote, in which I referred to the results of the ‘prevailing thinking’ quote:

                      “Finally my ideology is not corrupt. It is somewhere near the prevailing thinking in vast swathes of the planet that is reducing poverty and empowering initiative and enterprise.”

                    • McFlock

                      and yet if you were demonstrably correct in that assertion, all you would need to point to is one. Not “vast swathes”. Just one.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “…and yet if you were demonstrably correct in that assertion, all you would need to point to is one.”

                      Gladly. https://mises.org/library/data-clear-free-markets-reduce-poverty

                      “Thirty years ago half (50 percent) the people in the poorer nations of the world lived in extreme poverty. In 2012, 21 percent of people in the poorer nations of the world live in extreme poverty. Development of global markets has greatly lessened poverty around the world. This is a very important fact.”

                    • McFlock

                      lol, a Mises link! I call tory bingo!

                      Even if that link weren’t bullshit in that it takes a couple of global metrics (per capita gdp, really?) and attributes their movement solely to international market liberalisation, and if I ignored your slide from “poverty” to “extreme poverty”, then are you saying that the sum total of your personal idealogy is market liberalisation?

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Even if that link weren’t bullshit …”

                      The link isn’t bs. It is supported by hard data, and many other sources. You can run but you can’t hide McF.

                    • McFlock

                      It completely ignores the impact of the billions of dollars spent on global water, roads, housing, and health programmes both privately and by the UN and government aid agencies over the past few decades.

                      It has no link between gdp and trade liberalisation, and no link between gdp and poverty rates. If we’re matching two random things together to assume a causal relationship, saying that AIDS causes trade liberalisation because they both increased in the same rough time period would be just as valid. Hell, Cuba has someof the most restricted trade in the Caribbean, and one of the lowest AIDS rates. By mises logic, one obviously causes the other.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “It completely ignores the impact of the billions of dollars spent on global water, roads, housing, and health programmes both privately and by the UN and government aid agencies over the past few decades.”

                      Who funds that work?

                      Who funds the countries that fund that work?

                      Who pays the taxes that fund the countries that fund that work?

                      It doesn’t matter how much aid goes in, if an economy is run like a shit-house (eg Venezuela) then no amunt of aid will assist.

                    • ropata

                      Time wasting troll cannot back up his claims, attempts to change the subject.

                    • McFlock

                      Who funds all that work?

                      Interesting question.
                      Pity your mises bullshit never even mentioned the work, let alone a link between that and anything else in the article.

            • Paul 7.1.1.2.2.2

              Firstly, acknowledge its seriousness.

              • The Other Mike

                THEN you get the Govt to act in best interests of the people who might just vote them back when they are doing better:

                “For years, conservatives have been telling us that a healthy business-friendly economy depends on low taxes, few regulations, and low wages. Are they right?

                We’ve had an experiment going on here in the United States that provides an answer. At the one end of the scale are Kansas and Texas, with among the nation’s lowest taxes, least regulations, and lowest wages.

                At the other end is California, featuring among the nation’s highest taxes, especially on the wealthy; lots of regulations, particularly when it comes to the environment; and high wages.

                So according to conservative doctrine, Kansas and Texas ought to be booming, and California ought to be in the pits.

                Actually, it’s just the opposite. For years now, Kansas’s rate of economic growth has been the worst in the nation. Last year its economy actually shrank. Texas hasn’t been doing all that much better. Its rate of job growth has been below the national average. Retail sales are way down. The value of Texas exports has been dropping.”

                Read the full article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-liberal-states-won-americas-tax-experiment_us_584e19a2e4b0bd9c3dfd4e67

              • Gosman

                How is child poverty in NZ worse than say child poverty in the UK or Canada or Japan?

              • wellfedweta

                Then?

                • Paul

                  Do you acknowledge its seriousness?

                  • Gosman

                    Why do you think it is serious?

                    • Paul

                      You clearly are trolling.
                      I have better things to do.
                      People like you are beneath contempt.
                      Go away.

                    • McFlock

                      fuckwit’s confusion over why any poverty is a serious problem displays exactly what makes him a fuckwit.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “fuckwit’s confusion over why any poverty is a serious problem displays exactly what makes him a fuckwit.”

                      Hi McFlock

                      If that was directed at me it is unfair. I have clearly stated I find poverty and homelessness unacceptable. But I am not particularly interested in more studies or measurement. I actually want to hear suggested policy to remedy the problem. So far all I’m getting is ‘admit the problem’. That doesn’t put food on the table.

                    • McFlock

                      no, it was a reply to gosman concerning gosman’s question as to why poverty is serious.

                      If you think the hat fits, it simply says something about either your ego or suggests that your true attitudes to poverty differ slightly from your declared position.

                  • wellfedweta

                    Irrelevant. We have homeless people. We have poverty. The size of the problem is secondary to finding solutions. I want to know what you plan to do about it.

                    • Paul

                      Go away.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Go away.”

                      So you have consumed considerable time and energy discussing a problem for which you have ZERO solutions. What a prat you are.

                    • Gosman

                      Many on the left don’t really want a solution to poverty as that would mean they would lose a reason to get righteously indignant at people on the right over. They really just want to moan and show how much they care about issues they they think are ‘serious’.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      A simple plan.

                      1. Copy countries who’ve achieved better outcomes.
                      2. Cooperate with them to improve on that.
                      3. Profit!

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Copy countries who’ve achieved better outcomes.”

                      Example?

                    • Cinny

                      What are your ideas and solutions WFW to tackle the problem you see? You are happy to ask others, but what are your ideas?

                    • wellfedweta

                      “What are your ideas and solutions WFW to tackle the problem you see? ”

                      I’m not the one highlighting the problem. But, seeing as you ask, I see this from a very different point of view.

                      NZ has more jobs than ever. We spend more on welfare than ever. We spend more on education and healthcare than ever. So clearly throwing more money at the problem is not the answer. It may be part of the answer, but clearly it hasn’t worked so far.

                      At the same time, we have a serious issue with dysfunctional families, who are contributing to inter-generational welfare dependency, family violence and other assorted crime.

                      I know a number of people who have worked in this environment at the coal face, and whose opinion I value. A common theme I hear is that many of these people need to get away from their familial surroundings. They need the ability to break free from dysfunctional relationships.

                      I would immediately introduce a ‘fresh start’ policy that funds a family (often this will be a single mum) to leave their dysfunctional environment and relocate. This funding would provide for the parent(s) to be independent of abusive family/friends, would provide adequate schooling, housing and healthcare for the family unit. But it would come with strings attached. Contact with named persons would be prohibited. Truancy of children would be unacceptable. Once the children reached high school age the parent(s) would be expected to be in trade training or work.

                      This one idea.

                    • Cinny

                      So WFW your idea is ..

                      “I would immediately introduce a ‘fresh start’ policy that funds a family (often this will be a single mum) to leave their dysfunctional environment and relocate.”

                      What exactly is a dysfunctional environment?

                      And is that the reason you believe that there is poverty because of a dysfunctional environment?

                      What kind of cost would be involved?

                      How many do you expect to take up this kind of offer?

                      Is it proven to work?

                      Won’t the dysfunctional environment still be there even if one removes the people from it? I’m sure an environment is more than just people.

                      Is NZ becoming an increasing dysfunctional environment for many?

                      Sounds like the national party has become a dysfunctional environment with so many leaving.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “What exactly is a dysfunctional environment?”
                      Where there is substance abuse, domestic violence, criminal activity…

                      “And is that the reason you believe that there is poverty because of a dysfunctional environment?”
                      Yes in SOME cases. That is not what I believe, it is what I have observed.

                      “What kind of cost would be involved?”
                      Don’t know. My hope would be to reduce welfare dependency by mentoring people away from dysfunction and into healthy families.

                      “How many do you expect to take up this kind of offer?”
                      You seem to be under the illusion people should have to volunteer. People in need would be identified by government and non-government organisations (as they currently are) and put into the scheme.

                      “Is it proven to work?”
                      Yes.

                    • “Truancy of children would be unacceptable”

                      Is it presently acceptable?
                      More irresponsible management from National!

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Truancy of children would be unacceptable”

                      I am speaking from the point of view of the family.

                    • “I would immediately introduce a ‘fresh start’ policy that funds a family (often this will be a single mum) to leave their dysfunctional environment and relocate.”

                      Relocate=dislocate
                      Isolating and breaking individuals off from their communities – sounds like a dictatorial sort of solution to me. It takes a village to raise a child, they say. You seem to be flying in the face of that philosophy. I guess you’re not a great Whanau Ora fan then.

                      You “solution” looks to me very interventionist, heavy handed and dictatorial. But it’s for their own good, I’ll bet you want to say.

                    • “mentoring people away from dysfunction and into healthy families”
                      Sounds lovely, eh, gentle, benevolent. I’ll bet the Australian Government used similar language when the took the “abo” kids away to those “healthy (white Australian) families”.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Isolating and breaking individuals off from their communities – sounds like a dictatorial sort of solution to me”
                      We are talking about people who are dire circumstances. People move all the time to seek work, better career options, better schooling, you name it. A soft option is not an option.

                      “It takes a village to raise a child, they say.”
                      Not when that village is a criminal enterprise.

                    • Cinny

                      Okies WFW.. so you feel that poverty is caused by mostly but not completely.. a dysfunctional environment, you identify such an environment as having.. substance abuse, domestic violence, criminal activity. Fair enough, that does go on in ANY society, have any countries solved those problems or reduced them and if so how?

                      What if I told you that most poverty is actually caused by low income and the high cost of living? Or that many poor households have no substance abuse, domestic violence or criminal activity? People don’t choose poverty, some things are outside of their control, a birth right of a NZ citizen, such as those in power dictating the minimum wage, etc.
                      What would you suggest to do in those circumstances?

                      And importantly where has your relocation idea worked? Evidence please and thank you.

                      People move all the time you say… no they don’t WFW, it is not easy to move a family, especially when nothing is guaranteed where they are going. As well research has shown that frequently changing schools during childhood may cause mental health issues in later years.

                      Where are the criminal enterprise villages you speak of please? So that we can keep clear of them or see what we can do to help them.

                      What really causes poverty?

                      Vulnerability to natural disasters

                      Discrimination and social inequality

                      National Debt

                      Surely we don’t have those problems, or do we?
                      http://borgenproject.org/what-causes-global-poverty/

                    • wellfedweta

                      ” Fair enough, that does go on in ANY society, have any countries solved those problems or reduced them and if so how?”
                      Most attempts at change have been under totalitarian regimes, which I would find unacceptable. But that doesn’t mean we cannot break the cycle.

                      “What if I told you that most poverty is actually caused by low income and the high cost of living?”
                      Then you’d be wrong, or at least simplistic.

                      “Or that many poor households have no substance abuse, domestic violence or criminal activity?”
                      And many do.

                      ” People don’t choose poverty”
                      No, but some people make poor decisions that lead to poverty.

                      “…some things are outside of their control, a birth right of a NZ citizen, such as those in power dictating the minimum wage, etc.
                      What would you suggest to do in those circumstances?”
                      The minimum wage in NZ is the 4th highest in the world. What is your point?

                      “And importantly where has your relocation idea worked? ”
                      You’re obsessed with relocation. I’m advocating moving people away from dysfunctional environments, not transplanting them on the moon.

                      “People move all the time you say… no they don’t WFW, it is not easy to move a family, especially when nothing is guaranteed where they are going. As well research has shown that frequently changing schools during childhood may cause mental health issues in later years.”
                      Actually, aside from the fact that you haven’t bother to understand what I meant, this is a fundamental difference in philosophy between our positions, I suspect. When someone is dependent on state welfare, they owe the country some things. One is to put themselves in a position to be free of dependency as soon as possible. If that means moving, so be it. Yes, in the real world families move, and have done for centuries.

                    • Cinny

                      WFW you said re your ‘relocation idea’ which you brought up

                      “I would immediately introduce a ‘fresh start’ policy that funds a family (often this will be a single mum) to leave their dysfunctional environment and relocate.

                      This funding would provide for the parent(s) to be independent of abusive family/friends, would provide adequate schooling, housing and healthcare for the family unit.

                      But it would come with strings attached. Contact with named persons would be prohibited.

                      Truancy of children would be unacceptable.

                      Once the children reached high school age the parent(s) would be expected to be in trade training or work.”

                      Then WFW you claimed that it is proven to work.

                      I asked for examples as to where it has worked, which countries? etc but you are yet to provide that information.

                      Don’t get sidetracked or tripped up with all your other spin, some can see right thru it.

                      Looking forward to seeing examples of where it has worked. I won’t give you guide lines on authors, ideas, policy and wish lists within your reply. I prefer freedom of speech. So bring on the links, don’t stay up too late

                      Oh and re minimum wage… when the cost of housing is so high that the government is propping up greedy landlords by paying them an accommodation supplement, isn’t that an indication that the minimum wage in nz is not acceptable or workable in the present economic and housing climate? Landlords profiting from our taxes, cause that’s where the accommodation supplement is coming from.

                      Do you really care or is your interest WFW purely to win an online debate?

                      Food for thought.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Food for thought.”

                      Where did you get the notion that relocation means moving to another city? Another country? Relocation could mean to a neighbouring street. The issue is to get people away from dysfunction. I encourage you to read this http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/87485762/editorial-how-the-numbercrunchers-could-hold-the-key-to-our-biggest-social-ills, or if possible the Dunedin Study itself. We need to catch these children BEFORE they are a statistic, by putting space between them and the statistics around them.

                      Let me give you an example. I have been watching in despair as the Greens have tried (in vain) to attack the governments plans to reduce the priority given to family involvement in the lives of kids from dysfunctional backgrounds. One of the single biggest hurts for those working in the field that I speak to is returning kids to abusive families, time and again, because of the priority given to the familial link. Let’s get over this PC bs and get our kids out of these families.

            • adam 7.1.1.2.2.3

              What actually works wellfedweta, what people like the child’s commissioner are suggesting. But that would take you having to read what was in the piece above.

              Our minimum wage is well below a living wage, and quite frankly to say it’s high, is just trolling. No one on the left is blaming poor parenting, that you lot, and laziness, nope again a lie from you lot.

              A high welfare budget, indeed, and it’s going to explode even higher as we spend the overwhelming majority of it on the 65+ age bracket. Oh not the poor then, who would have thought…

              Solution are many, political will from Tory Scum = zero.

              • wellfedweta

                ” and quite frankly to say it’s high, is just trolling”

                No, it’s fact. NZ has the 4th highest nominal MW in the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country).

                “what people like the child’s commissioner are suggesting. ”

                Which is what? The only suggestion in the piece above is to come up with a plan. A plan to do what?

                I asked you for solutions. You clearly have no idea.

                • Paul

                  You clearly are trolling.
                  I have better things to do.
                  People like you are beneath contempt.

                  • wellfedweta

                    So you are unable to accept facts when presented to you and referenced. Well at least we’ve cleared that up.

                • adam

                  If you had followed the links in reading as I suggested. You would have found this little chestnut.

                  http://www.occ.org.nz/assets/Uploads/EAG/Final-report/Final-report-Solutions-to-child-poverty-evidence-for-action.pdf

                  As for saying a high minimum wage is trolling, simply, yes, because minimum wages are a bad joke, full stop. Our one in particular is a sad little number, that is no where near a living wage . (You know the wage that means you are not in dire poverty, just poverty, but I’m sure you knew that) So if you want to trumpet shallowness, feel free, no one is stopping you.

                  This is one of those comparisons people make to look good when the whole neo-liberal agenda is failing and dragging everything down, but again, feel free to make a fool of yourself by spouting silly comparisons with no compassion, no one is stopping you.

                  • wellfedweta

                    Yes, the report contains some excellent recommendations. It’s a shame you were not able to answer my question.

                    As to the minimum wage, you are being disingenuous. The minimum wage is not intended to be a living wage, and very few adults try.

              • Gosman

                You lot tried turning the 2014 election in to one about child poverty. Most of the electorate (or at least a significant chunk of it) didn’t buy it then. Why should they care now?

                • adam

                  I see your inner selfish self is now out Gossy, any more deflecting trolling you’d like to do today? Alt-right fan boy, is that the label?

                • ’cause it’s 2016 (almost 2017) and it’s worse!
                  Just thinkin’…

                  • Gosman

                    But it isn’t worse.

                    • Yes it is. Given that it is worse, the voting public will be far more likely to react when confronted by the reality (rather than your insistent denial) and vote accordingly. Straight forward logic, I’m sure recognise.

                    • Gosman

                      You have no evidence that it is worse now than it was in 2014

                    • There is ample evidence that poverty has worsened in New Zealand and that National have been doing all they can to obscure the fact from the voting public, as you are trying to do here. Perception is everything, Gosman, as you know and it is increasing obvious that there is a real and worsening problem with poverty in this country. Bill English made the comment today that there are many ways to tell a story, many ways to present facts; you are having a go, not very convincingly I have to say, judging by the reaction here, and I and others are telling ours. In my opinion, our story, not yours, is the one that is being widely accepted and that’s what counts when it comes to issues like poverty affecting the outcome of an election – your team will go all out to convince the public that there is no significant poverty in New Zealand while our team will do the same to show that there certainly is. In my view, we already have a major lead and the public has a strong belief that poverty is serious and worsening. Your representatives in Parliament seem defensive, quite rightly, and appear to be doubling-down denial and spin in order to regain the public’s support. I think they’ve already lost the competition for the public’s confidence on this issue, and that’s helped greatly because our position is true and feels true to most people. And that’s what it’s all about.

                    • Gosman

                      Still no evidence I see Mr Guyton. Do you enjoy operating in a fact free environment?

          • Gosman 7.1.1.2.3

            It is in there. The stats worsened between 2007 and 2010 and then have remained relatively static or drifted down. In the first part of that period Labour party policies were in place for 2 out of the 3 years. How come you are attributing the upswing to National?

            • adam 7.1.1.2.3.1

              I see you really into alt-right trolling now Gossey, so Labor did it too, BFW.

              The issue is there is no solution offered by those in power, no desire to fix the issue. Accept you don’t care, you hate the poor, and go play with your mate whaleoil.

              • Gosman

                Where’s the evidence I hate the poor? I think you are meaning to state that you believe that people who think the same as you do care more about those in poverty than someone like myself. If I truly hated the poor why would I support a welfare state?

                • McFlock

                  But you don’t support a welfare state.

                  You support a gossamer-thin pretence of a welfare state to cover your contempt for everyone less fortunate than you.

                  You’ve not once proposed a single policy that would reduce poverty by, say, half, or even eliminate it. You don’t even know why it’s a bad thing.

                  • Gosman

                    Cut middle class welfare and allow people to build house far easier than they can now. Both of those policies will have a greater impact on relative poverty levels than raising the minimum wage will.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, they’ll have a massive impact on relative poverty levels, I agree.

                      But we’re looking for ways to eliminate it, not give you a couple more dank rental properties to stuff the poor into.

                    • Gosman

                      Relative poverty is a factor of inequality between the middle and the bottom .Reduce government support for those in the middle that don’t really need and redirect it to those at the bottom.

                      In relation to housing, note that poverty rates before housing costs have actually fallen over the past 8 years. One of the reasons the poverty rate is persistently high is because housing costs have sky rocketed because we are not building enough houses. Build more houses and poverty rates will decrease.

                      There we go two policies that will do more to alieviate poverty than anything we’ve seen from you lot.

                    • McFlock

                      Bwahahahaha!
                      Your solution to poverty is to level-down the middle class so less people come under the median?

                      Next Dr Gosman will lower the Rheumatic Heart Disease rate by shooting anyone who gets rheumatic fever.

                      Fuck I keep forgetting how much of a sociopath you really are.

                    • Gosman

                      You think relative poverty is a problem. I’ve given you a solution to it. Raising the minimum wage won’t do that. Instituting a living wage certainly won’t either. You are likely to either entrench it or make it worse by doing that.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, it’s “a” solution, I grant you.

                      The solution only a tory could come up with: increase the pool of people living in a higher measure of poverty in order to eliminate harsher poverty without inconveniencing the rich.

                      as for your predictions of the impact of a living wage, keep spouting the tory catechism as if it’s based in reality. Your levelling down solution shows where that leads.

                • adam

                  Oh come on Gossy where have done anything to offer a solution? Just once, when have you said you want a solution, just once? You are doing nothing but what you usually do at this point, and go poor me. Take some responsibility for your actions!

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2

        but today’s unchallenged lie becomes tomorrow’s accepted truth.

        QFT

  7. Karen 8

    Paula Bennett certainly doesn’t like answering questions about child poverty. Goes from smiley Paula to hard-faced Paula very quickly.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-jack-tame-catches-nzs-evasive-new-deputy-pm-unprepared-questions-kiwi-kids-in-severe-poverty?auto=5244794407001

    • Rosemary McDonald 8.1

      Thanks for that link…

      I’m listening and watching as Bubbles’ eyes go cold at Tame’s tone…and I’m waiting, waiting, waiting for Bubbles to say the two magic words that were going to solve the problem of intergenerational poverty and child neglect/abuse.

      Whanau Ora.

      Never came…despite Our 2IC’s fairly recent re connection to her Tainui whakapapa.

      She could have hit pay dirt there…” Oh, Jack…our partners in the Maori Party have secured funding for addressing these issues…Whanau Ora, the wraparound service for all New Zealanders living with multi causal dysfunction.”

  8. Get ready to be bored stiff with the Bennett sob story of how she was a solo mum but pulled her ‘Straps up” and changed her life. Nothing about the fact that it was under a Labour government and nothing about the fact that her family owned a shop and looked after her child whilst she attended university . She’s a fraud regarding that and perhaps now she is playing the Maori card she will tell us how much Maori blood she actually has?

  9. Be prepared to have Bennett continuously repeat the ‘Poor Solo Mum story of how she managed to pull up her “boot straps “. Not ever a mention of the fact that that was under a Labour Government .
    She is also playing the Maori card I wonder just how much Maori blood sh has ? She is a fraud and needs to be shown as such.

    [Quantum has nothing to do with anything. That’s the shit they pull in the US (25%) with the idea being there will be no indigenous peoples. Letting it through because it seems to be comment based on genuine ignorance. Also sent your similar comment that was caught in pending to spam] – Bill

  10. Robertina 11

    Social investment is a successful narrative for the right to avoid responsibility for the system’s failure to provide adequate housing, wages, and benefits. It’s rubbish, of course, but highly effective.
    The problem with the ”technical” monitor is while it plays a straight bat (unlike the now seemingly co-opted Dunedin Study), its measures are open to misinterpretation and concern trolling.
    Income measures can be dismissed as a measure of inequality rather than poverty, and the material hardship measures are also problematic.
    Children’s commissioner Andrew Becroft, interviewed on Morning Report, was railroaded into agreeing that one could just ”go down the list” as the interviewer put it, and start ticking off items as provided to children by corporates and businesses (or whoever).
    And of course that already happens now so it’s hardly a novel idea.
    But the point of the measure in the monitor – and it includes occasion items like birthday parties – is that those items serve as a proxy for underlying deprivation.
    Most people would infer from the interview that corporate or community welfare is the answer and we can simply ”go down the list” and dish out items like shoes and jackets to solve poverty.
    In my view the third world health statistics and their link with housing are a better focus backed by some strong qualitative case studies as well as the raw technical data in the report.

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    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    1 day ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    1 day ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    1 day ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    4 days ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    4 days ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    4 days ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    5 days ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    5 days ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    5 days ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    6 days ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    6 days ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    6 days ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    6 days ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    7 days ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    7 days ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    1 week ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    1 week ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    1 week ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • 2018 – Submission to the NZ Government Tax Working Group
    Read our submission here ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Guardian: Poll shows DISASTER for Corbyn and the End of Times
    The Guardian - ever eager to forewarn of doom and disaster on the left - are leading with a new poll from Opinium, which puts the Conservatives 15% clear of Labour.Con 38% +2Lab 23% -1Lib Dem 15% -5Brexit 12% +1Green 4% +2This isn't good news, and it would be very ...
    1 week ago
  • How prostitution became the world’s most modern profession
    Being and Being Bought (Spinifex Press, 2013) by Kajsa Ekis Ekman  A synopsis and commentary of Chapters 1-2 by Daphna Whitmore Ekman, a Swedish journalist and critic, brings together a Marxist and feminist analysis of prostitution and surrogacy in this groundbreaking book She opens the discussion with a definition of ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Clever legal fellow on Scottish challenge to Brexit
    I make no claims to having much legal knowledge,  so I defer to those trained in this area.I am very much enjoying this twitter stream from m'learned friend in Edinburgh, deciphering the legal arguments around the Scottish court challenge to Boris Johnson, based on the charmingly obscure principle of Nobile ...
    2 weeks ago
  • An Open Letter From Closed Minds.
    Ivory Folly? The University of Auckland’s Vice-Chancellor, Professor Stuart McCutcheon, upheld the right of the radical nationalist group, Action Zealandia to exercise their freedom of speech – not matter how distasteful that speech might be. A wiser community of students and scholars would have nodded their agreement and moved on. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Extinction Rebellion members want to “eat babies”
    If you are not convinced terrorist Organisation ‘Extinction Rebellion’ is very, very dangerous – watch this video at one of their recent meetings. Not only is this obviously mentally ill Woman begging the other terrorists to promote killing and “eating” babies and children, if you watch carefully other members nod ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    2 weeks ago
  • The government needs to tell people about the OIA
    The Ombudsman has been surveying people about their knowledge of the OIA and the right to information. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that widespread:The Chief Ombudsman says too many New Zealanders were in the dark over their right to access official information. Peter Boshier said an independent survey released yesterday on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Join the rebellion
    In the wake of last Friday's climate strike, Peter McKenzie had an article in The Spinoff about protest strategies. The school strike movement is "polite" and cooperates with those in power because that's its kaupapa - its led by schoolkids who understandably don't want to risk arrest. But there's more ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Jermey Corbyn, I don’t like GNU (sorry)
    So, the latest ruminations on the gnews from Westminster (Again, sorry; I'll stop making that pun right now).  This follows on from, and likely repeats bits of, my last post, on the suggestion that a Government of National Unity (GNU) should be set up and then oversee a referendum before ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • About time
    New Zealand likes to think of itself as not a racist country (despite being founded on the racist dispossession and subjugation of Maori). But for years, we've had a racist refugee policy, which basicly excludes refugees from Africa and the Middle East unless they already have relatives here. Now, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Legal Beagle: Vexation, or Something Too Long for Twitter
    Several people have asked me whether a particular repeat litigant could be declared a vexatious litigant, in light of their recent decision to appeal an adverse High Court ruling. My nascent tweet thread was getting ridiculously long, so it became this blog post instead.The short answer is: no. The particular ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Zealandia’s Lost Boys.
    Appealing To The Past: Action Zealandia, like so many of the organisations springing up on the far-Right, across what they call the “Anglosphere”, is born out of the profound confusion over what a man is supposed to be in the twenty-first century and, more importantly, what he is supposed to do.THE STATUE OF ...
    2 weeks ago
  • British trade union and political activists defend women’s right to speak, organise
      The attempts of anti-democratic transactivists to (often violently) disrupt women’s rights organising is largely ignored by those sections of the left most prone to misogyny and authoritarianism in New Zealand.  In Britain, however, scores of trade union and left activists added their names to a letter in July, defending ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Turning their back on justice
    The Justice Committee has reported back on the Criminal Cases Review Commission Bill. The Bill would establish an independent, quasi-judicial body to investigate and review potential miscarriages of justice, and refer them back to the Court of appeal if required. It would be a vital backstop to our judiciary, help ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • US imperialism’s 40 years of war on the Iranian people
    by The Spark On September 14, a total of 22 drones and cruise missiles struck two oil installations in Saudi Arabia, the Abqaiq processing facility and the Khurais oil field. Abqaiq is the largest oil production facility in the world. For a few days afterwards, Saudi Aramco, the Saudi national ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • $47 billion
    How much will NeoLiberal irregulation of the building sector and subsequent leaky homes crisis cost us? $47 billion, according to a new book:The total cost to fix all of New Zealand's leaky homes would be $47 billion, probably. The estimate comes from a new book, Rottenomics written by journalist Peter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
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