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Govt response to poverty report will tell us all we need to know about Bill English

Written By: - Date published: 8:04 am, December 13th, 2016 - 264 comments
Categories: bill english, class war, national, poverty - Tags: , , ,

The 2016 Child Poverty Monitor Technical Report is out today. A summary of the graphics from the Child Poverty Monitor is attached at the end of this post. Here is some of the media coverage.

RNZ:

Third generation of Kiwi children face life of poverty

The Children’s Commissioner has warned action needs to be taken, or New Zealand risks relegating a third generation of children to a life of poverty.

This year’s Child Poverty Monitor Report, released today, shows no real improvement in child poverty rates, with 295,000 children – 28 percent – living in low income homes.

More than 8 percent of children were in severe poverty. That meant 90,000 children experienced both material hardship and lived in a low-income home.

While child poverty was reasonably stable for several years, it was significantly worse than the 1980s.

In 1982, the percentage of children in families experiencing income poverty was 14 percent, compared to 28 percent now. …

Stuff:

‘Significant, enduring’ child poverty in New Zealand according to Child Poverty Monitor

New Zealand’s child poverty rates aren’t improving but we are starting to “wake up to the serious problem”, according to the 2016 Child Poverty Monitor.

The monitor, released on Tuesday morning, shows there has been no real improvement in child poverty rates.

Fourteen per cent of children are living in material hardship where they are living without seven or more necessary items for their wellbeing and 28 per cent of children are living in low income homes, up from 14 per cent in 1982.

Child poverty has been identified by New Zealanders in recent opinion polls as one of the most significant issues facing our country.

“New Zealanders are starting to wake up to the serious problem we face. We are in real danger of creating pockets of a third generation of ingrained poverty – which seriously impacts children’s health, ability to learn and contribute to society.”

New Zealand has a goal to halve all poverty by 2030.

“To attain this goal within the next 14 years, we need a plan to reduce child poverty. It must be a government led plan all New Zealanders can work towards. It should involve business, community and non-government groups.” …

Herald:

Children’s commissioner Andrew Becroft ‘shaken’ by extent of child poverty in New Zealand

Children’s commissioner Judge Andrew Becroft says he was “shaken” by the 2016 child poverty monitor, the first to be issued since he took the advocacy role.

Judge Becroft told the Otago Daily Times he will ask new Prime Minister Bill English to set a poverty reduction target, a request that was knocked back by former prime minister John Key.

Judge Becroft, who has been in the role for five months, hopes to have more success with English. … Key had said it was too difficult to set a specific target. …

So now we get to see what Bill English is made of. There have been many gushing words from certain commentators about his “compassionate conservatism” and the wisdom of his “social investment” approach. Now he’s in a position to act, to start addressing the Nats’ so far shameful record on poverty. So, what will Bill English’s government do about poverty – evasions, words, or actions?


Update:


Update: Bill fails.

264 comments on “Govt response to poverty report will tell us all we need to know about Bill English ”

  1. Carolyn_nth 1

    In an interview yesterday on Checkpoint, English was talking about needing to build more “social” housing. Social housing is not state or public housing. HNZ needs more state housing for low income people. Contracting it out to charities and/or private (Aussie) companies won’t cut it.

    • saveNZ 1.1

      Yep, lets face it, if the government can’t even manage a state house portfolio successfully, they should not be in government!

    • michelle 1.2

      Bill English is actually a hypocrite to say he will now vote for gay marriage but doesn’t believe in abortion or euthanasia. He has also changed his tune why? has he and his government after 8 years realized many NZers are sick and tired of his government and their policies that have made the rich richer and the poor poorer. Remember he was responsible for implementing and developing the policy platforms for the gnats. Now he is talking from another song sheet people need to ask why? a change to be more inclusive all of sudden after 8 years.

      • Carolyn_nth 1.2.1

        Yes, same song, different arrangement.

        And the spin of Paula Bennett’s backstory – trying to mirror JK’s rise to power. When Key began with his state-house-to-Beehive narrative, he was a clean political skin – little record in politics to contradict that backstory.

        But Bennett (and Bill) come with parliamentary records that contradict their attempts at new (old) spin.

      • Gosman 1.2.2

        The statistics don’t seem to back you up on that

        http://www.statschat.org.nz/2013/12/09/inequality-in-nz/

        • michelle 1.2.2.1

          Whose stats are they gosman and how reliable are they because we all know how easy it is to manipulate stats and change how things are measured to suit ones own political agenda

          • Gosman 1.2.2.1.1

            The thing is michelle you haven’t even provided ANY statistics to back up your claims that this government has made poverty worse in NZ. I would be to happy to debate the reliability of statistics at the point YOU actually start using them.

            • McFlock 1.2.2.1.1.1

              Except the fact that the technical report in this post actually provides more up to date data than the drivel you offered.

              For example, figure 65 shows p80/20 increase in the 1990s, a drop between the 2004 and 2007 datapoints (especially for BHC w/kids, thanks WFF) and a cyclical increase since 2007.

              So the stats do actually back Michelle up on that.

              • Gosman

                No they don’t. The statistics suggests there was a rapid rise post 2007 till 2010. Given the policies enacted by National only started to have an effect from 2009 they can’t be blamed for the first part of that. Post 2010 the rate has fluctuated and on some measures is lower than it was when they took over. However the rate has not really moved significantly (i.e. more than 2 or 3 percent ) from the 2007 baseline. The point being is that that you lot can’t back up the oft reported claim that the current government has been making poverty and inequality worse. The most you can argue is that they are not really tackling it in an effective manner. That is not as a simplistic attack point though hence why you spin this for your own political advantage.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  That, and the homeless families.

                • McFlock

                  Post 2010 the rate has fluctuated and on some measures is lower than it was when they took over.

                  lol nice cherrypicking.

                  However the rate has not really moved significantly (i.e. more than 2 or 3 percent ) from the 2007 baseline. The point being is that that you lot can’t back up the oft reported claim that the current government has been making poverty and inequality worse.

                  Except that moving 2 or 3 percent from a measure of 20 or 30 percent is actually a ten percent change. Hell, it could be 40,000 more kids below the line. That might not be “significant” to you, but it is to them. And the point being is that in several measures, even with your cherry-picked time periods, it is demonstrably worse.

                  The most you can argue is that they are not really tackling it in an effective manner.

                  No, that’s merely the most you’ll admit. But even that is inexcusable.

                  • Gosman

                    How is using 2010 cheery picking data when National came in to office in 2008 and there was no real policy changes that would have impacted poverty rates till 2009 at the earliest?

                    • Paul

                      Wow!
                      Rather than being concerned by the amount of poverty in the country, you spend all your energy defending the government.
                      Why not put your energy into some solutions?

                    • McFlock

                      Because it’s picking the highest convenient value for comparison, which in turn helps you argue that this government is merely careless with the lives of tens of thousands of children, rather than being an active threat to their wellbeing and survival.

                    • Gosman

                      No, I’m countering the narrative that this government has made relative poverty levels worse than when they took over. It is quite clear that the poverty rates were rising when they took over as a result of the GFC. This continued till around 2010 when they started to fluctuate and have eventually fallen slightly. It is simply not true that the current government’s policies are making things worse.

                    • Paul

                      You don’t care about poverty.

                    • Gosman

                      I care about ensuring we focus on problems based on facts not emotions. Essentially your arguments boil down to ‘Won’t someone think about the little children’.

                    • McFlock

                      lol now your best argument is that poverty rates today are still only ever so slightly lower now than they were at the height of the GFC, six years ago.

                      Booming economy, yadda yadda, but poverty is static. Clap for you bastards. And yes, think of the children. Because obviously you’re not

                    • Tracey

                      So, this was the best we could hope from a “rock star” economy Gosman?

                      All this Growth and no real dent. wage increases of at best 1% for those working to generate the growth despite real inflation being higher (house prices for example not factored into CPI).

                      I rate ANY government on how well they speak of, and take care of, our vulnerable. We have had 30 years of “if we grow the economy everything will be taken care of” and there is now decades of evidence that growth is not the answer. Yet we keep using it as the yardstick.

                      So, if evidence is your yardstick Gosman, you must agree that we can’t keep doing the same stuff we have been doing for a few decades if we want to have an entire society that thrives?

      • Tracey 1.2.3

        Hi michelle

        I dont think he has changed his beliefs. he has had a couple of months of training before the PM announcement to become more key-like. remember whenKey started? he was put through training, like all PM’s. The Nats training is focussed on how to say what people want to hear rather than what you believe. In this regard he is passing the first Nats/Business test with flying colours. There is no way to prove or disprove what he would vote for today on things that have passed. he knows that and Joyce and his handlers know that so they get him making all these statements to paint him as socially liberal.

        That’s my take on it anyway

    • AB 1.3

      The purpose of housing is to not provide your citizens a secure healthy place to live from which they can make a contribution to society.
      The purpose of housing is to deliver unearned, untaxed capital gains to National Party supporters. Understand this and then everything they do on housing makes sense.

    • Gosman 1.4

      Why won’t it cut? Do people get better quality social housing from the State than from other sources? If so, where is the evidence backing this up?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      Measuring the effects of poverty, examining its victims, tut-tut-tutting over them. Anything other than address the underlying causes of the problem.

      Unfortunately, while the DMHDRU does all this good research, the Economics department is riddled with neo-liberals like a fly-blown sheep. They are the disease.

      What’s the cure?

      • Pat 2.1.1

        I think the suggestion is to measure and mitigate…….the conclusions of this study has the potential to improve the future of the individual and society as a whole…though there appears a hint of eugenics surrounding it.

        Obviously what actions are taken with this information would be critical but is it a discussion that will be seriously examined by the wider public?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1

          We are aware of the potential for misusing these findings, for stigmatising and stereotyping…

          My preferred option is to take steps to increase wages across the board, and keep post-hoc mitigation to a minimum.

          • Pat 2.1.1.1.1

            and you believe a) an increase in income across the board at the say bottom 20% of earners will resolve the issues outlined and b) that there is a greater chance the incomes of the lowest 20% will be sufficiently increased ahead of a targeted programme?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.1.1

              False dichotomy: action is needed right now. Putting robber barons like Mr. Peter Talley in their place will take time and legislation. In the meantime, mitigate by all means.

              Bear in mind that mitigation will immediately be fed to National’s raw meat as “bludging”. We need solutions that can survive right wing hate speech.

              • Sam C

                Sir Peter Talley to you.

                • DoublePlusGood

                  Mr Talley does not warrant his knighthood, given his behaviour toward his workers over decades. As such, many of us do not use the title when referring to him, preferring to reserve that for people who actually deserve such recognition.

                  • alwyn

                    “many of us do not use the title ”
                    A perfectly reasonable attitude.
                    That is just like the way I feel about Micky (Finn) Cullen.
                    And as for the “Right Honourable” HC. Please.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Get off your knees Sam.

              • Pat

                flowery….. but doesn’t answer the questions.

                but i guess it does answer one question at least from your perspective…its not a discussion that will be seriously examined.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  I answered your questions by stating that I think both courses of action are necessary, so I guess the specific answers are (a) “partially” and (b) it’ll be hard to tell with both in place.

                  • Pat

                    then it can hardly be a false dichotomy……and also think you have misunderstood b)….there is nothing to discern….it was asking which scenario was more likely to occur.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Sorry, I thought you were proposing a one-or-the-other question.

                      As for (b), in that case the answer is beyond my ken. The link I gave Gosman might shed some light. It provides evidence that a minimum wage hike may increase economic activity, but whether it would have a stronger effect than direct mitigation…in the long term I think so, but…?

                    • Gosman

                      You’re not just calling for an increase in the minimum wage though. You are actually asking for a general wage increase ACROSS the board. Ignoring for a moment that relative poverty levels won’t really be impacted if you do that you don’t have any evidence doing so won’t impact employment.

                  • Pat

                    a increase in income would solve many of the problems for many of the group noted….but not all. An increase in income won’t solve dysfunction, drug/alcohol abuse , lack of skills or health issues nor will it provide expertise and/or support…especially when the need is not recognised. It also assumes that the 20% identified are exclusively in the lowest income bracket.

                    When I have the time to concentrate on it I will read the report but from the outline I have seen it appears to me to be proposing a type of Plunket on steroids (at least by inference). If resourced well it could be hugely beneficial, unlike deinstitutionalisation which was adopted and not funded/supported.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Lifting the lowest 20% of salaries would lower the GINI, so would indeed have a significant effect on mental health issues such as substance abuse.

                      I’m also in favour of getting back to a top-notch well-funded education system.

                      My concern with the report is its focus on symptoms rather than causes. Unless we address the market and economic failure that is at the root of the problem, it’s a bottomless pit.

                    • Gosman

                      Cuba apparently made huge improvements in education. The country is still an economic basket case though. Increasing education without having an economy equipped to cope can just lead to highly educated unemployed young people. Look at southern Europe to see that effect.

                      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/world/europe/youth-unemployement-in-europe.html

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Gosh, so there are no other countries in the world for you to compare with? I know ignorance is a condition we all share, but yours seems a tad wilful.

                      Yep, as McFlock notes, you haven’t even looked at the information. Feet of clay, Gosman.

                    • Gosman

                      Cuba, Spain, Italy, France, Greece, Zimbabwe, South Africa ummm pretty sure I could provide a large number of countries where highly educated young people have a high unemployment rate.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Off you go then, make an extensive list that you can brandish at anyone who looks like they might be part of the solution.

                    • Tracey

                      Hi Pat

                      I haven’t read the report but have been wondering, since listening to Ritchie Poulton on the radio, were the tests conducted in English or the language of the child?

                    • Pat

                      Hi Tracey

                      The life course outcomes have been developed from the data of the Dunedin Study, which i assume was conducted in the language of those interviewed.

                      http://dunedinstudy.otago.ac.nz

            • Gosman 2.1.1.1.1.2

              What happens to people who don’t have jobs?

              • Pat

                is that addressed to me or OAB?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Mitigation, in whatever form it takes. Don’t worry, no-one expects you to be part of the solution.

                • Gosman

                  What do you mean mitigation?

                  If you increase wages across the board then two things are likely to occur at some stage.

                  1) The jobless rate will increase as some businesses (e.g. export orientated businesses) costs rise and they can’t recoup this from higher prices meaning they have to reduce overheads (usually by reducing staffing levels)

                  2) The income gap between those working and those not working rises and therefore poverty rates can actually increase.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    1) Bullshit. Yes I know it’s the dogma you believe very very hard, and the real world confounds you.

                    We do not find compelling evidence that the minimum wage has caused significant increases in business failure rates. Moreover, if there has been any increase in business closings caused by the Minimum Wage Ordinance, it has been more than offset by an
                    increase in business openings.

                    I suspect you know this, and are lying about it deliberately, because of your low character.

                    • Gosman

                      We aren’t talking about minimum wage ordinance here. I believe your argument is to increase wages ACROSS THE BOARD. It may have little impact at the low level the minimum wage impacts but for many businesses paying higher salaries paying higher salaries could well mean the difference between success and failure.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Fair enough, “across the board” was a poor choice of words. Pre-distribution is still a lot less complicated than re-distribution.

                    • Phil

                      We do not find compelling evidence that the minimum wage has caused significant increases in business failure rates.

                      “This report presents the short-run effects of the Seattle Minimum Wage Ordinance on the Seattle labor market”

                      Hmmm… yes, that’s perfectly applicable to New Zealand, sure.

                      But seriously, we know that around the world minimum wages tend to be set at specific levels for political, not economic, reasons.

                      What that ends up meaning is that often the minimum wage sits below the market clearing equilibrium price for labour and, consequently, raising the minimum wage is unlikely to have an impact on employment because the minimum is relatively ineffective, rather than inefficient.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Sure thing Phil. I could have quoted the Treasury Department, but I realise now that economic findings aren’t applicable to New Zealand.

                      Mind you, they drive on the right in Seattle, so I expect Physics doesn’t apply to them either.

                      But seriously, we know that economic theory is full of holes, and infested with dogma, so I admire your certainty.

                    • Phil

                      Right… so your comment boils down to “don’t talk economics to me – it’s wrong. You should just accept as gospel the economic paper I found.”

                      *slow clap*

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Nope, Phil. If you have a point other than you doubt everything, please make it sometime soon. “Perfectly applicable”? Can you say what you mean?

                      PS: I didn’t cite theory, I cited some observations.

                    • Tracey

                      “for many businesses paying higher salaries paying higher salaries could well mean the difference between success and failure.”

                      Could you post your evidence to support this statement?

                      For some businesses they could achieve this now but with a reduction in profit or a reduction in owner perks and salaries. How much is enough to earn is also the counter question? For example Paul Collins was in charge of Brierley’s during its decline and was paid 4m to leave. Then he took his expertise to a number of Boards (some government funded such as Sport NZ). When my employer declines the business I am employed in, I dont even get redundancy.

                  • Tracey

                    When a business like, say, a bank, makes 4 billion profit a year, do you think there is room for them to raise the wages of their employees?

                    • Phil

                      ANZ, New Zealand’s largest bank, made $1.5b profit in the year to September 2016. They have approximately 9,000 employees across the country and total “personnel expenses” of $894m. Theoretically, they could double the salary of everyone working for them and still make $600m in profit.

                    • Tracey

                      Thanks Phil. Exactly

  2. Rosemary McDonald 3

    “So, what will Bill English’s government do about poverty …?”

    What has been his openly declared agenda since 2010…..http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10644993

    Since I read that, six and a half years ago, NOTHING that has occurred involving government spending on social issues has surprised me.

    What really gets me sometimes is that National are still rating high in the polls despite more and more people from all strata of New Zealand society being directly negatively impacted by his ‘kick them when they’re down’ policies. Makes a non trusting person wonder if the polls could somehow be mistaken.

    Bill embraces the ‘building resilience’ ideology….make people and communities stand on their own two feet and not rely on state assistance. All well and good in theory, but fails when so many have poor foundations due to systemic failures and neglect in education, employment conditions and housing.

    We are now hearing more emphatic statements made in louder voices from government appointees such as Becroft, Boshier, Gibson, Henwood, Blue about what can only be described as human rights violations committed by this and previous governments.

    The sooner New Zealand is exposed on the world stage for the hypocrites we are the better.

    • saveNZ 3.1

      Maybe if governments bothered to have a taxation system that was fair and not full of loophole’s so that 38% of companies turning over $100 million plus in OZ, don’t pay a bean… it’s probably worse in NZ and the companies actually kill the worker’s aka Pike River, our government refuses to collect real statistics and publish them meaningfully, as well as avoiding other social responsibilities like taxation.

      We have a big corporate welfare problem in NZ that sucks out the social welfare while the MSM cheers them on and the opposition seems paralytic on the issue.

      “THE AUSTRALIAN TAX OFFICE (ATO) released the ‘Corporate Tax Transparency Report’ last week.

      It shows that 38% of the 1539 public and private foreign companies with turnover greater than $100 million paid no income tax in the 2013-14 financial year.

      https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/tax-big-business-avoidance-and-other-bruises,8509

      • Gosman 3.1.1

        Why do you think businesses should pay tax?

        • DoublePlusGood 3.1.1.1

          Because they earn income, so they should contribute tax just as private individuals pay tax on their income.

          • Gosman 3.1.1.1.1

            Money earned by businesses does get taxed. To claim otherwise ignores reality. Why do you want businesses taxed?

            • DoublePlusGood 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Did you even fucking read my previous comment?

              • Gosman

                And you didn’t understand mine. Money earned by a business including profits get’s taxed already. Why do you think it needs to be taxed at the business level?

      • Phil 3.1.2

        There is A LOT of confused reporting in that piece. It’s almost like the author has no comprehension that a company pays tax on its profits, not its revenue.

        • saveNZ 3.1.2.1

          Yes, Phil and so easy to hide your profits, money transfers and routs and loopholes so that 38% of $100 million dollar companies can avoid paying taxes.

          By the same token, workers can’t claim ‘expenses’ on PAYE, in addition companies that do not avoid taxes are at a disadvantage, so there seems to be a double standard going on.

          • Gosman 3.1.2.1.1

            Companies can hide all the profits they like. They will still have to pay tax on them eventually.

            • DoublePlusGood 3.1.2.1.1.1

              You do know what a tax haven is, yes?

            • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.1.2.1.1.2

              Except the owners who can buy and sell the company for a tax-free capital gain – a practice most common among the rich, and not available to those unable to afford to own a company.

    • AB 3.2

      Yep – “building resilience” is the sort of crap that expensive business ‘coaches’ talk about when they come in to companies and ‘train’ middle managers who are imprisoned in a meeting room for 2 days.
      From there it can easily spread it’s insidious tentacles out into the wider community. It’s code for abandonment, sink or swim. And if you are a worthy person you will swim, and if you sink that’s because you are unworthy and ultimately perhaps it’s better in that case that you do sink.

      • Rosemary McDonald 3.2.1

        Yep…its a movement…an actual thing.

        Trending now!

      • Incognito 3.2.2

        When you associate “building resilience” with ”the sort of crap that expensive business ‘coaches’ talk about when they come in to companies and ‘train’ middle managers who are imprisoned in a meeting room for 2 days” it seems to trigger a very negative response.

        I have another view of “building resilience”, i.e. in the context of earthquake-hit regions and cities. This happens to be one of the National Science Challenges: Resilience to Nature’s Challenges.

        https://www.resiliencechallenge.nz/

        Do you think there are fundamentally different forms or levels of resilience?

    • Nick 3.3

      I am sure these Politicians would complain and change ‘building resilience’ ideology if it affected them directly. But they have built such a cosy nest…..

  3. saveNZ 4

    “To attain this goal within the next 14 years, we need a plan to reduce child poverty. It must be a government led plan all New Zealanders can work towards. It should involve business, community and non-government groups.”

    Simple answer – vote the National government out – they have led 8 years of worsening poverty – time to go….

    • michelle 4.1

      Agree with save NZ . If we haven’t learnt from the last 8 years we will never learn
      Now the gnats front has gone we can see the true blue rotten party the gnats really are and will always be the party where inequalities always come to the fore.

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.2

      “Simple answer – vote the National government out – they have led 8 years of worsening poverty – time to go….”

      It is not as simple as ‘vote National out”.

      National has to be replaced by something better.

      Labour has to prove that the neo liberal policies the party embraced and foisted onto the country have been forever abandoned….and I can’t see them doing this at this point in time.

      These structures have been building for over two decades and have become totally integrated into many, if not most government funded ‘supports’.

      Organisations, profits and non profits, who have built empires on the back of providing disability supports amounting to $billions each year across ACC, MOH, DHBs and MSD have never, ever met the full needs of their client base, can refuse to provide services if clients fall into some arbitrary category of “too high” and leave these people incarcerated in appalling conditions…or dependent on family support….which of course is not funded, or funded at a much lower level than ‘professional support’.

      There are some in the disability community who say that the system is broken…and only complete destruction and removal of ALL personnel who have enabled the system to thrive (from the providers perspective) will effect meaningful change.

      Seeing what has happened as a result of privatisation of the disability sector has made me more aware, and nervous as the race is on to do the same for housing and….more worryingly…child welfare and health.

    • Gosman 4.3

      The statistics don’t support that statement. See my above post.

    • Gosman 4.4

      There is little evidence that poverty rates have got significantly worse over the past 8 years

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.4.1

        Then stop cherry-picking your start date and go back to 1982. Define “little” and “significantly”. I expect the extra families living in cars will be delighted to hear how insignificant they are.

        • Gosman 4.4.1.1

          I’m not cheery picking the start date. It was chosen by the numerous leftist comments on here who claim this government has made poverty and inequality worse in their time in power. Unless you are trying to argue they have in fact been in power since 1982.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.4.1.1.1

            This government has made poverty and inequality worse in the last eight years, according to you. You claim it’s “little” and “insignificant”, but since you refuse to define or quantify these terms…how about I consult my memory of the relative number of beggars on the streets…

            Yep, you’re wrong again: they seem significant to me.

            • Gosman 4.4.1.1.1.1

              What was the GINI coefficient in 2008 and what is it now?

              What was the Poverty rate in 2008 and what is it now?

              Please provide links to statistics backing your claims up.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                What McFlock said. And UNICEF. And the Sallies.

              • McFlock

                geez, you really couldn’t be bothered reading the post, could you.

              • wellfedweta

                1. Income inequality since 1982 is graphed at http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-social-indicators/Home/Standard%20of%20living/income-inequality.aspx

                There has been virtually no change since 1994, and very little change since 1982.

                2. The GINI increased during the late 1950’s and early 1990’s, but has remained virtually unchanged since the mid 1990’s. http://www.statschat.org.nz/2013/12/09/inequality-in-nz/. This is in direct contradiction to the claims of many on the far left. And from most Labour members of parliament.

                Note – Frankly I don’t see the problem as inequality, unless we live in a country of envy. I don’t care whether my brother earns twice what I earn, as long as I have the basic necessities of life. Also, it is not the governments job to ensure equality of outcome. It is the governments job to attempt to achieve equality of opportunity.

                The next question is – if inequality has not changed since the mid 1990’s, and since 2008 there have been significant increases in the minimum wage and real wages, why is the left claiming poverty has increased? The answer to that is complex, and is found in more detailed studies, such as the Dunedin Study.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Your witless dickhead failure to redefine inequality to mean whatever you want it to mean is duly ridiculed. No-one cares what you reckon.

                  • wellfedweta

                    The GINI is not my attempt to redefine inequality. But it doesn’t suit your misrepresentation of reality, I do understand that.

  4. Draco T Bastard 5

    So, what will Bill English’s government do about poverty – evasions, words, or actions?

    Probably the same as any National government – kick them while they’re down and blame them for the kicking.

  5. Karen 6

    Bill has Minister of Finance over the past 8 years and therefore he is the one who is responsible for increased poverty in this time. Cuts in health spending, welfare reforms and selling off state housing are down to Bill English.

    The “social investment” approach is just a way of reducing social spending by pushing the responsibility for poor outcomes onto private companies. The pretence that private enterprise does a better job than the state is crap. All that happens is that private companies are better able to hide the true outcomes while sending all their profits overseas. Compass and Serco are good examples. “Compassionate” conservative? You have to be kidding.

    I don’t agree with everything here but Easton has summed up Bill’s role quite well.
    http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/letter-to-bill

    As for Bennett – while on DPB she was able to give up her part-time work that she found hard without any penalty but she insists solo-parents have to find work when their child turns 3. Paula got a training incentive allowance that allowed her to go to university – her first job as Social Development minister was to scrap the TIA. She also got rid of Sickness Benefit replacing it with a Jobseeker Benefit. If you haven’t seen the film “I, Daniel Blake” then I suggest you do so. Paula consulted with the UK before bringing this same inhumane system to NZ.

    Bill English said on Morning Report this morning that he had given every beneficiary family an extra $25. This is a lie. Very few qualified for the full $25 – many got nothing. Even for those who did qualify for for a few extra dollars it was not nearly enough to make up for the massive increase in accommodation costs that Bill is in part responsible for..

    Expect a lot more about Bill English the “compassionate” conservative and Paula Bennett the teenage solo mum who climbed to the top in the media. Hopefully some journalists will dig a little deeper but I’m not holding my breath.

    • Bob 6.1

      Sorry Karen, I only got to “Bill has Minister of Finance over the past 8 years and therefore he is the one who is responsible for increased poverty in this time” and you lost me.
      Did you even look through the report? Almost all poverty measures peaked in 2011 at the height of the GFC and have now dropped back to, or below the level they were at in 2008 when Bill English became Minister for Finance.
      Hard to make an argument around Bill English being responsible for increased poverty when the report this post is based on doesn’t back up what you are saying.

      • Gosman 6.1.1

        Yes there is little evidence that poverty rates have increased dramatically since 2008

        • Paul 6.1.1.1

          Why not be honest, Gosman?
          You don’t care abut the poor.

          • Bob 6.1.1.1.1

            Why not be honest, Paul?
            You haven’t even looked at the report.

          • Gosman 6.1.1.1.2

            Why don’t you guys be honest? You don’t really care about the true state of poverty in NZ. You just like to use the issue as an attack against a political grouping you don’t like. Trying to pretend the current government has made inequality and poverty worse is not supported by much in the way of evidence.

            • McFlock 6.1.1.1.2.1

              Careful, gos, your moral compass is showing.

              Just because you don’t give a shit about poverty, it doesn’t mean that others are just as fucked up as you.

        • michelle 6.1.1.2

          Of course the report is written to appease who and hide what, we aren’t stupid we can see how our country has gone downhill in the last 8 years. Our govt have received many reports in the 8 years and dismissed them and the contents. This government has been damaging our country and our people and they ignore and denigrate any reports when they don’t like what they hear now you are trying to shuff a report down people throats and expect us to believe it is gospel after all the lies and half truths we have been fed get real gosman.
          What about Pulla Rebstocks 500 k MFAT leak inquiry the one that your govt had to pay the public servants an undisclosed amount. This is the sort of rot we have in govt now and this is just the tip of the iceberg . And by the way gosman we are still waiting for our Saudi trade deal the one that cost us tax payers 11.5 million any updates for us Bro

          • Gosman 6.1.1.2.1

            Once again no statistics just your emotive view on the subject. Except your emotive view hasn’t really been terribly successful at convincing more than half the electorate has it? Why don’t you try something new and provide some hard evidence to support your position?

        • saveNZ 6.1.1.3

          Go down Queen ST in Auckland, Gosman!

          • saveNZ 6.1.1.3.1

            Maybe like the Freshwater111 site – there should be a homeless site with proof for the skeptics like Gossie and John Key and other RWNJ (but with faces obscured so that homeless people are not further victimised).

            https://web.facebook.com/groups/freshwater111/

            • Gosman 6.1.1.3.1.1

              So you haven’t got any links to any sites with actual statistical evidence then? Why not if it is such a no brainer that this government has caused a sustained increase in poverty and inequality?

              • McFlock

                What, you mean other than the child poverty monitor site that’s in the fucking post?

                How about the nice wee Census comparison that shows a larger proportion of people in severe housing deprivation in the last census?

                • Gosman

                  We’ve already discussed this. Child poverty rose from 2007 to 2010 and then has drifted up and down. There is no evidence that it is getting worse on a consistent basis (which is what you would expect if people here were correct and the current government’s policies are designed to hurt the poor).

                  • adam

                    OH for god sake, who cares if it it getting worse. The fact its so high already – IS THE PROBLEM!

                    So stop trying to score points with kids lives you tosser.

                  • McFlock

                    Child poverty rose from 2007 to 2010 and then has drifted up and down.

                    More up than down on most measures, and roughly the same on the other measures.

                    Funny how it seems to get worse then remain static under tory governments, isn’t it. And that that’s the best you can say about them: gets worse, then stays the same.

                    • Gosman

                      It got worse under a policy framework that was mainly reflective of a center left government. The main influence subsequent is housing costs which are caused by the fact we are not building enough houses to satisfy demand. Free that market up and poverty rates will decrease.

                    • McFlock

                      more fucking lies.
                      Key was never centre left.
                      Nor was Richardson.

      • Karen 6.1.2

        Actually Bob, I did read the report. I suggest you do so again.
        Re child poverty:

        “The promising decline seen from 2001 to 2007 when policies such as Working for Families contributed to some families’ income increasing, has not been maintained. Between 2007 and 2010 child poverty rates increased (reflecting the time of the global financial crisis), then declined, so that in 2013 the rates were nearly equal to those in 2007.”

        Let’s not blame the GFC. After all there were plenty of people who got rich during that time. Just not the poor. Oh and Bill English approved tax cuts didn’t he?

        Perhaps you are just looking at measurements that do not take housing costs into account.

        “In New Zealand the most rapid rises in income inequality occurred from 1988 to 1992. From 2004 to 2007 income inequality fell, particularly for households with children, after the introduction of the Working for Families (WFF) package. Unemployment rates also fell during this period. There has been more volatility in the P80:P20 ratio since the 2008 global financial crisis. Housing costs contribute to income inequality as they usually take up a greater proportion of household income for households on lower incomes than those on higher incomes. Although the P80:P20 ratio BHC (before housing costs) suggests that inequality was fairly stable from 2000–2015, the P80:P20 ratio AHC (after housing costs) indicates that inequality increased from 2008 to 2015 and was close to the previous high point before the 2004 WFF package.”

        • Bob 6.1.2.1

          So you read the report, actually quoted back to me the point that by 2013 “the rates were nearly equal to those in 2007.” and quoted ” (reflecting the time of the global financial crisis)” which was stated as the reason for the rise from 2007 – 2010, then decided to ignore the 2015 data which showed further drops in poverty across almost every measure and still say “Bill has Minister of Finance over the past 8 years and therefore he is the one who is responsible for increased poverty in this time”?

          “Oh and Bill English approved tax cuts didn’t he?”
          Yes he did, they came into effect October 1st 2010. Go back to the report and have a look what happened to poverty levels from that date.

          “Perhaps you are just looking at measurements that do not take housing costs into account.”
          Fair point, ‘Hospitalisations due to assault, neglect or maltreatment’, ‘Deaths from assault, neglect or maltreatment’, ‘Deaths from conditions with a social gradient’, ‘Sudden unexpected death in infancy’, ‘Severe poverty’, ‘Material hardship’ and ‘Child poverty’, are all at or below 2008 levels (you seemed to miss these), but taking housing costs into account poverty levels have increased.
          Good news for you though Karen, looks like that may be changing too: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11765203

          I take it based on these numbers you will be voting National in 2017?

          • Karen 6.1.2.1.1

            You are being very selective again, Bob. I have better things to do that engage with people like you so I would suggest everybody should read the report themselves and ignore everything that does not include housing costs as there is no point to any measure that does not include the cost of housing. Then they should reflect on the fact that the number of homeless has increased and ponder on how many of these people will get counted in a household survey.

    • Nick 6.2

      Nice comment Karen….PB….pulling up the ladder as fast as she can.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.3

      The “social investment” approach is just a way of reducing social spending by pushing the responsibility for poor outcomes onto private companies.

      The ‘social investment’ approach is all about shifting government money into private profit. It has no other purpose.

      “Compassionate” conservative? You have to be kidding.

      Sociopathic, greedy scum would be a far more accurate description.

      • Gosman 6.3.1

        And that is why you are unlikely to get much traction for your ideas Draco. While there may indeed be sociopathic greedy scum business people out there labelling them all this is just going to alienate people who may be interested in some of what you have to say but either know and like or are business people themselves. The good thing from my perspective is telling you this won’t ever change your mind as you will continue to do so. The bad thing from my perspective is you’re such a fringe dweller on the left of the political spectrum you have no real influence on any left grouping that could pose a danger to my world view.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.1

          If they don’t like it then perhaps they should stop being sociopathic, greedy scum.

          As for others liking them – well, psychopaths really are known for being very charming while lying to your face.

    • Pat 6.4

      “The “social investment” approach is just a way of reducing social spending by pushing the responsibility for poor outcomes onto private companies.”

      that may well be behind the agenda of this government but there is no need for the concept to involve private enterprise to any great degree or potentially even at all.
      The logic of identifying and assisting individuals/families at risk BEFORE the damage is done is beyond argument however the practicality of implementation is fraught with potential dispute…..as always the devil is in the detail.

      There is no reason why Labour couldn’t appropriate and enhance a Nat policy for a change.

  6. adam 7

    I see Gossy is at his usual and I’m not sure why people argue with him, this is an individual who put Pinochet on a pedestal, economically. If that is his logic, do you think mutual aid, or stopping poverty is somthing he actually cares about? It is his rather fixed, and rabid ideology which worships money over people – which is on display.

    So my advise, don’t feed the ideology of selfishness. People like gossy feed off it, they like proving that there selfish, it’s all about me, my way of economics is the only answer. If you look at his arguments this morning, not only is it desperate, it is t.i.n.a, very little actually looking for solutions, and nothing for wanting us to be better human beings.

    Nothing you can say will influence gossy, ideology rules OK, so don’t bother.

    Instead, work on solutions to end poverty, here you actually have to look at the base of a society, which is run by, and for those who are ideologically tethered to radical liberalism.

    • McFlock 7.1

      goss’s role at times like these is to sow misinformation, minimise the demonstrable, and outright lie about the obvious, all while pretending to sound reasonable.

      goss is a deplorable piece of shit, but today’s unchallenged lie becomes tomorrow’s accepted truth.

      • Red 7.1.1

        No he just put forwards facts and stats, you and others emotion hyperbole and the odd personal observation or testimony that supports your view, ideology and some how this trumps facts, go figure ?

        • adam 7.1.1.1

          So red or what ever other names you go by. I see you went straight for trolling. But what facts? What numbers, the out of date ones?

          But then maybe you could think things through, but I’m at the point you may not, much simpler to be a typical alt-right spoiler ah red, much much simpler.

        • McFlock 7.1.1.2

          But if he had a leg to stand on, he could merely use the facts and stats in the child poverty monitor, rather than searching for his own.

          Yes, I’m emotional, but it’s not hyperbole. Child poverty is why I especially hate this ladder-kicking bunch of sociopaths. Kids being admitted to hospital due to conditions that are directly linked to overcrowding is why I especially hate this government. Poor housing being named as a direct contributor to the deaths of babies is why I hate this government.

          And yes, Labour did it too and every government for the last thirty years has ignored or slapped ineffectually the growing problems. But at least most of the other parties view it as a bad thing, and if you squint really hard you could believe that they are merely on the wrong track in their attempts or too small in parliament to address the problem. But you fuckwits give the distinct impression that you don’t even care.

          That’s the insult. That’s the crime. That’s the obscenity. You bastards don’t even care.

          • ropata 7.1.1.2.1

            The beancounter is in charge of NZ now. Poor people are a cost to be minimised and/or swept under the carpet. Social investment is far too long term for Bling’s ideological budget surplus. Shame that the human cost is not on his ledger.

            It is on God’s ledger though. Repent Bill!! (various quotes from openbible.info)

            Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.

            For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

            Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.

            Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

            Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

            Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.

            But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

          • wellfedweta 7.1.1.2.2

            Hi McFlock

            I think people do care, but maybe we need to discuss solutions, rather than arguing about the numbers. We live in a country where we spend an increasing amount of money on welfare, where we have an internationally high minimum wage, where education and healthcare all but free, yet we have people falling through the cracks. We can blame governments, poor parenting, laziness, neo-liberalism, or any other ‘ism’ you choose to invent, but that doesn’t actually help anyone. So here’s a challenge. What would you do to reduce child poverty?

            • McFlock 7.1.1.2.2.1

              First step to identifying solutions is to assess the nature and extent of the problem.

              Denial of the problem when it’s listed in such detail brings one’s concern into doubt.

              • wellfedweta

                But there are plenty of reports about this problem. Who cares about the extent of it. What do we do to fix it?

                • McFlock

                  We need to know the extent of it to see whether we have improved the situation or made it worse. Currently we’ve made it worse, unless you take gosman’s sunny view that we’ve note changed it in any significant way in almost the past decade.

                  Easiest way to end poverty: give poor people money on a weekly basis, via benefits and wages if they have jobs.

                  Cheaper but more difficult way to end poverty: well-fund a copious supply of doctors, social workers, and teachers. Provide free childcare and education to tertiary level. Fund it by having those who benefitted disproportionately from the intelligence of previous governments taxed at a slightly higher rate than those who did not receive that same level of benefit, rather than enabling the disproportionate beneficiaries kick the ladders away behind them. As well as give poor people money on a weekly basis, via benefits and wages if they have jobs.

                  Expensive way to perpetuate the problem: underfund everything and build more prisons. Pretend increases in minimum wage to living wage level will do more harm than good. Pretend nothing needs to be done, or if something needs to be done then nothing can be done, or if something can be done pretend it’s too late now. Standard tory playbook.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    underfund everything and build more prisons. Pretend increases in minimum wage to living wage level will do more harm than good. Pretend nothing needs to be done, or if something needs to be done then nothing can be done, or if something can be done pretend it’s too late now.

                    That’s worth a post all on its own. just to remind people what the National Party is. Why aren’t you an author McFlock?! Please consider it. Your input has so much value.

                    • McFlock

                      bit busy these days. Besides, this denialist bullshit is bad formy blood pressure. Fucking tories.

                  • Gosman

                    Except Sweden does all those things and their poverty rates have tracked slightly upwards recently.

                    • McFlock

                      More proof you prefer to make shit up rather than read the post or the links in the post.

                      figure 23.

                      Feel free to compare sweden and NZ levels if you have more recent data. Bryan Perry might like to see it, too.

                    • Gosman

                      I didn’t state they were higher than us. I stated their recent trends have been negative while ours has been stable.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, indeed.

                      Tracked upwards ever so slightly while still being far below NZ, who choose to follow policies that benefit only the rich.

                      We should only pray that we do as badly at addressing the poverty problem as Sweden, even with the slight swedish uptick. Hey, maybe we could copy their policies just to enjoy their Fury Road level of inequality and social decay.

                  • wellfedweta

                    Thanks McFlock, at least you have attempted to answer my question. How would determine who is ‘poor’? In principle I want to help people, but I am not interested in subsidising people who could do more to help themselves. How do we achieve this balance?

                    • weka

                      For every 100 people in need that get helped, how many people are you willing to subsidise who could do more to help themselves? How would you determine who those latter people are?

                    • wellfedweta

                      “For every 100 people in need that get helped, how many people are you willing to subsidise who could do more to help themselves? How would you determine who those latter people are?”

                      Excellent question.

                      1. As many as meet the criteria.
                      2. I don’t believe determining those in genuine need is that hard. Between the Police, a revitalized MfVC and other government and non-government agencies, I believe we could weed out those who on the take.

                    • weka

                      Did you misunderstand the question or did I misunderstand your earlier statement? You said,

                      “In principle I want to help people, but I am not interested in subsidising people who could do more to help themselves.”

                      By “people who could do more to help themselves” I took you to mean people who you think shouldn’t have assistance. I want to know how many of those people you would be willing to subsidise in order to help 100 people who need help? Is it zero? Or a number higher than that?

                      What is MfVC?

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, so the person who didn’t need to know the extent of the problem now wants a precise definition of it?

                      From a population level, I’ll start with anyone living <50% of the median household income or living in extreme hardship as defined as meeting seven or more "lacks" in dep17 or the equivalent MWI.

                      At a case level, I'd say anyone who relies on social workers, food banks or government transfers to live, as determined by those organisations on a case by case basis.

                      But, to quote John Oliver, the poverty level is a bit like the age of consent for sex: if you feel the need to parse exacty where it is, the chances arethat you've already done something very, very wrong. So I don't care if the people who are poor don't meet your level of whether they deserve your condescending assistance.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Oh, so the person who didn’t need to know the extent of the problem now wants a precise definition of it?”

                      No. Where did I ask that? There are plenty of definitions. Let’s get on with fixing it.

                    • Muttonbird

                      @Weka.

                      Ministry for Vulnerable Children. Even righties can’t bear the name so they can’t bring themselves to use it.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “By “people who could do more to help themselves” I took you to mean people who you think shouldn’t have assistance.”

                      Not zero, but close to it. Again each case needs to be assessed. You can’t just make a decision based on subjective criteria. That’s why I support the cross agency information sharing we are using a lot more of, and it is why I support much of what English etc have been doing to target investment where it is most needed.

                      Throwing money at dysfunction has been tried and failed. We need a more targeted, evidence based approach, and that is what I see happening now. More to come.

                    • McFlock

                      “Oh, so the person who didn’t need to know the extent of the problem now wants a precise definition of it?”

                      No. Where did I ask that? There are plenty of definitions.

                      You asked how to determine who is poor. Given that income, assets, expenditures and social service use are trivially available on a routine basis, that leaves only the definition against which those are measured.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “You asked how to determine who is poor.”
                      Yes. Which is quite different to not knowing the ‘extent of the problem’.

                      “Given that income, assets, expenditures and social service use are trivially available on a routine basis, that leaves only the definition against which those are measured.”

                      That isn’t much use. Two people can exist on exactly the same income levels, one do well, the other not. Defining poverty as a % of some wage number is equally silly, as has been demonstrated often. Poverty is being without, not being with less than the rest.

                    • McFlock

                      “You asked how to determine who is poor.”
                      Yes. Which is quite different to not knowing the ‘extent of the problem’.

                      Indeed. It does, however, require a benchmark definition of “poor” against which one can make the determination.

                      Two people can exist on exactly the same income levels, one do well, the other not. Defining poverty as a % of some wage number is equally silly, as has been demonstrated often. Poverty is being without, not being with less than the rest.

                      And of course “being without” is exactly what is covered by the MWI/Dep17 measures to which I referred. But median income measures are more comprehensively obtained and measurably correlate to similar outcomes reflected by material hardship, so can act as a reasonably accurate proxy at a policy level. However, you will also note that I included some case assessment criteria to catch any who were missed by the broader instruments.

                      Yes, some will live with dignity on lower incomes – the fewer number the lower the income. I’m happy for them. Who really gives a shit if a beneficiary can afford a boutique beer now and then. My concern is for those who need more to live in dignity – that is how I measure the success of the policy. Not on whether someone might get a little bit more than they need, but whether anybody in this land of plenty simply cannot make their ends meet.

                      And this country is failing dismally by that measure. Not because of distribution inaccuracy at the lower end, but the unwillingness to take it off the people at the top end.

                    • wellfedweta

                      ” It does, however, require a benchmark definition of “poor” against which one can make the determination.”

                      Determining whether a single person (which was the question) is poor, is very different to determing the ‘extent of the problem’.

                      “And this country is failing dismally by that measure. Not because of distribution inaccuracy at the lower end, but the unwillingness to take it off the people at the top end.”

                      That doesn’t work. Never has. We pour money at the ‘poor’ now. More than ever before. Yet you claim the problem gets worse. Doesn’t this resonate with you in any way at all?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      It resonates with me: false narratives about poverty are nothing but hate speech.

                      You need to do more homework.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “It resonates with me: false narratives about poverty are nothing but hate speech.”

                      Oh my little snowflake. Please do tell me what McFlock or said that was a ‘false narrative’?

                    • McFlock

                      Creating population benchmarks of “poor” means the government doesn’t need to spend hours interviewing every single person just to make sure they fit your definition of “poor”.

                      Your tightwad nature actually costs more money to implement in the real world than being at home with the fact that no system can every perfectly divide the “poor in need of assistance” from the rest of the population, and erring on the side of caution.

                      We don’t “pour money at the poor” now.
                      We throw money at a currently dysfunctional system that harrasses everyone who applies, drives people to suicide, puts its own employees at risk of serious harm and death, and still does next to nothing to address the problem.

                      When we had a genuine social welfare system, rather than a system of alienation and exploitation, we spent less money and had much less poverty. It wasn’t perfect, but it was a fuck of a lot better than it is today. That does “resonate” with me.

                      But you want to quibble about whether this person or that person is poor and deserves your precious assistance. Hundreds of thousands of people would need to be intensively assessed before you’ll pretend to start looking at solutions. The only “resonance” you have is the echo as conceit rattles around the vacuum between your ears.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Wellrehearsedgimp, in your own words you “detest” people. You are motivated by hate.

                      Consolidated wrote a song about you.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Creating population benchmarks of “poor” means the government doesn’t need to spend hours interviewing every single person just to make sure they fit your definition of “poor”.”
                      Then, based on your criteria, we will allocate resources to people who are abusing the system. That is a waste of money.

                      “Your tightwad nature actually costs more money to implement in the real world than being at home with the fact that no system can every perfectly divide the “poor in need of assistance” from the rest of the population, and erring on the side of caution.”
                      No, I disagree. By implementing greater accountability, the genuine needy will be able to access more targeted services.

                      “We don’t “pour money at the poor” now.”
                      Yes, we do. At record levels.

                      “We throw money at a currently dysfunctional system that harrasses everyone who applies, drives people to suicide, puts its own employees at risk of serious harm and death, and still does next to nothing to address the problem.”
                      Hyperbole. But I agree with you the system needs change, and that is what we’re seeing happen.

                      “When we had a genuine social welfare system, rather than a system of alienation and exploitation, we spent less money and had much less poverty. It wasn’t perfect, but it was a fuck of a lot better than it is today. That does “resonate” with me.”
                      What you’re referring to was not a welfare system, it was an economy protected by access to guaranteed markets within the commonwealth. Times have changed.

                    • McFlock

                      Then, based on your criteria, we will allocate resources to people who are abusing the system. That is a waste of money.

                      No they’re not – they qualify so they’re entitled. No it’s not, because the alternative is to send massive amounts of money on assessing each and every applicant to the nth degree.

                      No, I disagree. By implementing greater accountability, the genuine needy will be able to access more targeted services.

                      But how much does that “accountability” cost? The more hoops people jump through, the more bureaucrats you need. And the greater the chance that people in genuine need will be unable to satisfy all your “accountability” requirements.

                      “We don’t “pour money at the poor” now.”
                      Yes, we do. At record levels.

                      Massive amounts of that money don’t actually reach the poor. They go to the bureaucracy.

                      “We throw money at a currently dysfunctional system that harrasses everyone who applies, drives people to suicide, puts its own employees at risk of serious harm and death, and still does next to nothing to address the problem.”
                      Hyperbole.

                      A current coroners inquest and recent worksafe prosecution suggest not hyperbole at all.

                      But I agree with you the system needs change, and that is what we’re seeing happen.

                      For the worse: more harrassment, less assistance.

                      What you’re referring to was not a welfare system, it was an economy protected by access to guaranteed markets within the commonwealth. Times have changed.

                      Oh bullshit. Not only do the timeframes between the NZ welfare state destruction and UK common market entry not match up, nothing in those changing times required that we start treating people like shit. That’s purely down to your corrupt ideology.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “No they’re not – they qualify so they’re entitled. No it’s not, because the alternative is to send massive amounts of money on assessing each and every applicant to the nth degree.”

                      I hear what you’re saying, but my point is over the long term the investment can be allocated over less families, because the ones who are not genuinely in need will find out the system is too robust.

                      “A current coroners inquest and recent worksafe prosecution suggest not hyperbole at all.”

                      Sorry you may need to elaborate on what you mean.

                      “Oh bullshit. Not only do the timeframes between the NZ welfare state destruction and UK common market entry not match up, nothing in those changing times required that we start treating people like shit. That’s purely down to your corrupt ideology.”

                      The time frames do match. The full impact of entry of GB into the EEC took years to impact on NZ. And we don’t treat people like shit, at least not often and not as a matter of policy. In fact we have one of the most generous welfare systems in the world. Finally my ideology is not corrupt. It is somewhere near the prevailing thinking in vast swathes of the planet that is reducing poverty and empowering initiative and enterprise.

                    • McFlock

                      Ok,so now we all know that you don’t follow news headlines in NZ, you have no idea about the process that friends of mine are going through right now and how they are treated, and that you prioritise “not giving people more than they need” over “give people all that they need”. Because that last one is a practical dichotomy.

                      Oh, and we also now know that you confuse “not corrupt” with “most people I can think of do it”. Which is an interesting juxtaposition with your attitudes to beneficiaries, but whatever, dude.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Ok,so now we all know that you don’t follow news headlines in NZ, ”

                      If you seriously think that the entry of the UK into the EEC had nothing to do with the reforms of the 1980’s in NZ or of the economic challenges this country faced from then, then you clearly have zero grasp on reality.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      @McFlock: Idly speculating whether Maninthemiddle’s non-sequitur is a consequence of illiteracy, or a tacit surrender.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “…and we also now know that you confuse “not corrupt” with “most people I can think of do it”.”

                      That’s plain dishonest. But then you don’t know what trend analysis is, so I presume you don’t know what juxtaposition means either. You really are getting desperate.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The prevailing characteristic of this thread is that McFlock is right.

                    • McFlock

                      Why do you think the statement “my ideology is not corrupt” is at all relevant to whether it is “somewhere near the prevailing thinking” anywhere in the world?

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Why do you think the statement “my ideology is not corrupt” is at all relevant to whether it is “somewhere near the prevailing thinking” anywhere in the world?”

                      I don’t. You need to read my full quote, in which I referred to the results of the ‘prevailing thinking’ quote:

                      “Finally my ideology is not corrupt. It is somewhere near the prevailing thinking in vast swathes of the planet that is reducing poverty and empowering initiative and enterprise.”

                    • McFlock

                      and yet if you were demonstrably correct in that assertion, all you would need to point to is one. Not “vast swathes”. Just one.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “…and yet if you were demonstrably correct in that assertion, all you would need to point to is one.”

                      Gladly. https://mises.org/library/data-clear-free-markets-reduce-poverty

                      “Thirty years ago half (50 percent) the people in the poorer nations of the world lived in extreme poverty. In 2012, 21 percent of people in the poorer nations of the world live in extreme poverty. Development of global markets has greatly lessened poverty around the world. This is a very important fact.”

                    • McFlock

                      lol, a Mises link! I call tory bingo!

                      Even if that link weren’t bullshit in that it takes a couple of global metrics (per capita gdp, really?) and attributes their movement solely to international market liberalisation, and if I ignored your slide from “poverty” to “extreme poverty”, then are you saying that the sum total of your personal idealogy is market liberalisation?

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Even if that link weren’t bullshit …”

                      The link isn’t bs. It is supported by hard data, and many other sources. You can run but you can’t hide McF.

                    • McFlock

                      It completely ignores the impact of the billions of dollars spent on global water, roads, housing, and health programmes both privately and by the UN and government aid agencies over the past few decades.

                      It has no link between gdp and trade liberalisation, and no link between gdp and poverty rates. If we’re matching two random things together to assume a causal relationship, saying that AIDS causes trade liberalisation because they both increased in the same rough time period would be just as valid. Hell, Cuba has someof the most restricted trade in the Caribbean, and one of the lowest AIDS rates. By mises logic, one obviously causes the other.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “It completely ignores the impact of the billions of dollars spent on global water, roads, housing, and health programmes both privately and by the UN and government aid agencies over the past few decades.”

                      Who funds that work?

                      Who funds the countries that fund that work?

                      Who pays the taxes that fund the countries that fund that work?

                      It doesn’t matter how much aid goes in, if an economy is run like a shit-house (eg Venezuela) then no amunt of aid will assist.

                    • ropata

                      Time wasting troll cannot back up his claims, attempts to change the subject.

                    • McFlock

                      Who funds all that work?

                      Interesting question.
                      Pity your mises bullshit never even mentioned the work, let alone a link between that and anything else in the article.

            • Paul 7.1.1.2.2.2

              Firstly, acknowledge its seriousness.

              • The Other Mike

                THEN you get the Govt to act in best interests of the people who might just vote them back when they are doing better:

                “For years, conservatives have been telling us that a healthy business-friendly economy depends on low taxes, few regulations, and low wages. Are they right?

                We’ve had an experiment going on here in the United States that provides an answer. At the one end of the scale are Kansas and Texas, with among the nation’s lowest taxes, least regulations, and lowest wages.

                At the other end is California, featuring among the nation’s highest taxes, especially on the wealthy; lots of regulations, particularly when it comes to the environment; and high wages.

                So according to conservative doctrine, Kansas and Texas ought to be booming, and California ought to be in the pits.

                Actually, it’s just the opposite. For years now, Kansas’s rate of economic growth has been the worst in the nation. Last year its economy actually shrank. Texas hasn’t been doing all that much better. Its rate of job growth has been below the national average. Retail sales are way down. The value of Texas exports has been dropping.”

                Read the full article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-liberal-states-won-americas-tax-experiment_us_584e19a2e4b0bd9c3dfd4e67

              • Gosman

                How is child poverty in NZ worse than say child poverty in the UK or Canada or Japan?

              • wellfedweta

                Then?

                • Paul

                  Do you acknowledge its seriousness?

                  • Gosman

                    Why do you think it is serious?

                    • Paul

                      You clearly are trolling.
                      I have better things to do.
                      People like you are beneath contempt.
                      Go away.

                    • McFlock

                      fuckwit’s confusion over why any poverty is a serious problem displays exactly what makes him a fuckwit.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “fuckwit’s confusion over why any poverty is a serious problem displays exactly what makes him a fuckwit.”

                      Hi McFlock

                      If that was directed at me it is unfair. I have clearly stated I find poverty and homelessness unacceptable. But I am not particularly interested in more studies or measurement. I actually want to hear suggested policy to remedy the problem. So far all I’m getting is ‘admit the problem’. That doesn’t put food on the table.

                    • McFlock

                      no, it was a reply to gosman concerning gosman’s question as to why poverty is serious.

                      If you think the hat fits, it simply says something about either your ego or suggests that your true attitudes to poverty differ slightly from your declared position.

                  • wellfedweta

                    Irrelevant. We have homeless people. We have poverty. The size of the problem is secondary to finding solutions. I want to know what you plan to do about it.

                    • Paul

                      Go away.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Go away.”

                      So you have consumed considerable time and energy discussing a problem for which you have ZERO solutions. What a prat you are.

                    • Gosman

                      Many on the left don’t really want a solution to poverty as that would mean they would lose a reason to get righteously indignant at people on the right over. They really just want to moan and show how much they care about issues they they think are ‘serious’.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      A simple plan.

                      1. Copy countries who’ve achieved better outcomes.
                      2. Cooperate with them to improve on that.
                      3. Profit!

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Copy countries who’ve achieved better outcomes.”

                      Example?

                    • Cinny

                      What are your ideas and solutions WFW to tackle the problem you see? You are happy to ask others, but what are your ideas?

                    • wellfedweta

                      “What are your ideas and solutions WFW to tackle the problem you see? ”

                      I’m not the one highlighting the problem. But, seeing as you ask, I see this from a very different point of view.

                      NZ has more jobs than ever. We spend more on welfare than ever. We spend more on education and healthcare than ever. So clearly throwing more money at the problem is not the answer. It may be part of the answer, but clearly it hasn’t worked so far.

                      At the same time, we have a serious issue with dysfunctional families, who are contributing to inter-generational welfare dependency, family violence and other assorted crime.

                      I know a number of people who have worked in this environment at the coal face, and whose opinion I value. A common theme I hear is that many of these people need to get away from their familial surroundings. They need the ability to break free from dysfunctional relationships.

                      I would immediately introduce a ‘fresh start’ policy that funds a family (often this will be a single mum) to leave their dysfunctional environment and relocate. This funding would provide for the parent(s) to be independent of abusive family/friends, would provide adequate schooling, housing and healthcare for the family unit. But it would come with strings attached. Contact with named persons would be prohibited. Truancy of children would be unacceptable. Once the children reached high school age the parent(s) would be expected to be in trade training or work.

                      This one idea.

                    • Cinny

                      So WFW your idea is ..

                      “I would immediately introduce a ‘fresh start’ policy that funds a family (often this will be a single mum) to leave their dysfunctional environment and relocate.”

                      What exactly is a dysfunctional environment?

                      And is that the reason you believe that there is poverty because of a dysfunctional environment?

                      What kind of cost would be involved?

                      How many do you expect to take up this kind of offer?

                      Is it proven to work?

                      Won’t the dysfunctional environment still be there even if one removes the people from it? I’m sure an environment is more than just people.

                      Is NZ becoming an increasing dysfunctional environment for many?

                      Sounds like the national party has become a dysfunctional environment with so many leaving.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “What exactly is a dysfunctional environment?”
                      Where there is substance abuse, domestic violence, criminal activity…

                      “And is that the reason you believe that there is poverty because of a dysfunctional environment?”
                      Yes in SOME cases. That is not what I believe, it is what I have observed.

                      “What kind of cost would be involved?”
                      Don’t know. My hope would be to reduce welfare dependency by mentoring people away from dysfunction and into healthy families.

                      “How many do you expect to take up this kind of offer?”
                      You seem to be under the illusion people should have to volunteer. People in need would be identified by government and non-government organisations (as they currently are) and put into the scheme.

                      “Is it proven to work?”
                      Yes.

                    • “Truancy of children would be unacceptable”

                      Is it presently acceptable?
                      More irresponsible management from National!

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Truancy of children would be unacceptable”

                      I am speaking from the point of view of the family.

                    • “I would immediately introduce a ‘fresh start’ policy that funds a family (often this will be a single mum) to leave their dysfunctional environment and relocate.”

                      Relocate=dislocate
                      Isolating and breaking individuals off from their communities – sounds like a dictatorial sort of solution to me. It takes a village to raise a child, they say. You seem to be flying in the face of that philosophy. I guess you’re not a great Whanau Ora fan then.

                      You “solution” looks to me very interventionist, heavy handed and dictatorial. But it’s for their own good, I’ll bet you want to say.

                    • “mentoring people away from dysfunction and into healthy families”
                      Sounds lovely, eh, gentle, benevolent. I’ll bet the Australian Government used similar language when the took the “abo” kids away to those “healthy (white Australian) families”.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Isolating and breaking individuals off from their communities – sounds like a dictatorial sort of solution to me”
                      We are talking about people who are dire circumstances. People move all the time to seek work, better career options, better schooling, you name it. A soft option is not an option.

                      “It takes a village to raise a child, they say.”
                      Not when that village is a criminal enterprise.

                    • Cinny

                      Okies WFW.. so you feel that poverty is caused by mostly but not completely.. a dysfunctional environment, you identify such an environment as having.. substance abuse, domestic violence, criminal activity. Fair enough, that does go on in ANY society, have any countries solved those problems or reduced them and if so how?

                      What if I told you that most poverty is actually caused by low income and the high cost of living? Or that many poor households have no substance abuse, domestic violence or criminal activity? People don’t choose poverty, some things are outside of their control, a birth right of a NZ citizen, such as those in power dictating the minimum wage, etc.
                      What would you suggest to do in those circumstances?

                      And importantly where has your relocation idea worked? Evidence please and thank you.

                      People move all the time you say… no they don’t WFW, it is not easy to move a family, especially when nothing is guaranteed where they are going. As well research has shown that frequently changing schools during childhood may cause mental health issues in later years.

                      Where are the criminal enterprise villages you speak of please? So that we can keep clear of them or see what we can do to help them.

                      What really causes poverty?

                      Vulnerability to natural disasters

                      Discrimination and social inequality

                      National Debt

                      Surely we don’t have those problems, or do we?
                      http://borgenproject.org/what-causes-global-poverty/

                    • wellfedweta

                      ” Fair enough, that does go on in ANY society, have any countries solved those problems or reduced them and if so how?”
                      Most attempts at change have been under totalitarian regimes, which I would find unacceptable. But that doesn’t mean we cannot break the cycle.

                      “What if I told you that most poverty is actually caused by low income and the high cost of living?”
                      Then you’d be wrong, or at least simplistic.

                      “Or that many poor households have no substance abuse, domestic violence or criminal activity?”
                      And many do.

                      ” People don’t choose poverty”
                      No, but some people make poor decisions that lead to poverty.

                      “…some things are outside of their control, a birth right of a NZ citizen, such as those in power dictating the minimum wage, etc.
                      What would you suggest to do in those circumstances?”
                      The minimum wage in NZ is the 4th highest in the world. What is your point?

                      “And importantly where has your relocation idea worked? ”
                      You’re obsessed with relocation. I’m advocating moving people away from dysfunctional environments, not transplanting them on the moon.

                      “People move all the time you say… no they don’t WFW, it is not easy to move a family, especially when nothing is guaranteed where they are going. As well research has shown that frequently changing schools during childhood may cause mental health issues in later years.”
                      Actually, aside from the fact that you haven’t bother to understand what I meant, this is a fundamental difference in philosophy between our positions, I suspect. When someone is dependent on state welfare, they owe the country some things. One is to put themselves in a position to be free of dependency as soon as possible. If that means moving, so be it. Yes, in the real world families move, and have done for centuries.

                    • Cinny

                      WFW you said re your ‘relocation idea’ which you brought up

                      “I would immediately introduce a ‘fresh start’ policy that funds a family (often this will be a single mum) to leave their dysfunctional environment and relocate.

                      This funding would provide for the parent(s) to be independent of abusive family/friends, would provide adequate schooling, housing and healthcare for the family unit.

                      But it would come with strings attached. Contact with named persons would be prohibited.

                      Truancy of children would be unacceptable.

                      Once the children reached high school age the parent(s) would be expected to be in trade training or work.”

                      Then WFW you claimed that it is proven to work.

                      I asked for examples as to where it has worked, which countries? etc but you are yet to provide that information.

                      Don’t get sidetracked or tripped up with all your other spin, some can see right thru it.

                      Looking forward to seeing examples of where it has worked. I won’t give you guide lines on authors, ideas, policy and wish lists within your reply. I prefer freedom of speech. So bring on the links, don’t stay up too late

                      Oh and re minimum wage… when the cost of housing is so high that the government is propping up greedy landlords by paying them an accommodation supplement, isn’t that an indication that the minimum wage in nz is not acceptable or workable in the present economic and housing climate? Landlords profiting from our taxes, cause that’s where the accommodation supplement is coming from.

                      Do you really care or is your interest WFW purely to win an online debate?

                      Food for thought.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Food for thought.”

                      Where did you get the notion that relocation means moving to another city? Another country? Relocation could mean to a neighbouring street. The issue is to get people away from dysfunction. I encourage you to read this http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/87485762/editorial-how-the-numbercrunchers-could-hold-the-key-to-our-biggest-social-ills, or if possible the Dunedin Study itself. We need to catch these children BEFORE they are a statistic, by putting space between them and the statistics around them.

                      Let me give you an example. I have been watching in despair as the Greens have tried (in vain) to attack the governments plans to reduce the priority given to family involvement in the lives of kids from dysfunctional backgrounds. One of the single biggest hurts for those working in the field that I speak to is returning kids to abusive families, time and again, because of the priority given to the familial link. Let’s get over this PC bs and get our kids out of these families.

            • adam 7.1.1.2.2.3

              What actually works wellfedweta, what people like the child’s commissioner are suggesting. But that would take you having to read what was in the piece above.

              Our minimum wage is well below a living wage, and quite frankly to say it’s high, is just trolling. No one on the left is blaming poor parenting, that you lot, and laziness, nope again a lie from you lot.

              A high welfare budget, indeed, and it’s going to explode even higher as we spend the overwhelming majority of it on the 65+ age bracket. Oh not the poor then, who would have thought…

              Solution are many, political will from Tory Scum = zero.

              • wellfedweta

                ” and quite frankly to say it’s high, is just trolling”

                No, it’s fact. NZ has the 4th highest nominal MW in the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country).

                “what people like the child’s commissioner are suggesting. ”

                Which is what? The only suggestion in the piece above is to come up with a plan. A plan to do what?

                I asked you for solutions. You clearly have no idea.

                • Paul

                  You clearly are trolling.
                  I have better things to do.
                  People like you are beneath contempt.

                  • wellfedweta

                    So you are unable to accept facts when presented to you and referenced. Well at least we’ve cleared that up.

                • adam

                  If you had followed the links in reading as I suggested. You would have found this little chestnut.

                  http://www.occ.org.nz/assets/Uploads/EAG/Final-report/Final-report-Solutions-to-child-poverty-evidence-for-action.pdf

                  As for saying a high minimum wage is trolling, simply, yes, because minimum wages are a bad joke, full stop. Our one in particular is a sad little number, that is no where near a living wage . (You know the wage that means you are not in dire poverty, just poverty, but I’m sure you knew that) So if you want to trumpet shallowness, feel free, no one is stopping you.

                  This is one of those comparisons people make to look good when the whole neo-liberal agenda is failing and dragging everything down, but again, feel free to make a fool of yourself by spouting silly comparisons with no compassion, no one is stopping you.

                  • wellfedweta

                    Yes, the report contains some excellent recommendations. It’s a shame you were not able to answer my question.

                    As to the minimum wage, you are being disingenuous. The minimum wage is not intended to be a living wage, and very few adults try.

              • Gosman

                You lot tried turning the 2014 election in to one about child poverty. Most of the electorate (or at least a significant chunk of it) didn’t buy it then. Why should they care now?

                • adam

                  I see your inner selfish self is now out Gossy, any more deflecting trolling you’d like to do today? Alt-right fan boy, is that the label?

                • ’cause it’s 2016 (almost 2017) and it’s worse!
                  Just thinkin’…

                  • Gosman

                    But it isn’t worse.

                    • Yes it is. Given that it is worse, the voting public will be far more likely to react when confronted by the reality (rather than your insistent denial) and vote accordingly. Straight forward logic, I’m sure recognise.

                    • Gosman

                      You have no evidence that it is worse now than it was in 2014

                    • There is ample evidence that poverty has worsened in New Zealand and that National have been doing all they can to obscure the fact from the voting public, as you are trying to do here. Perception is everything, Gosman, as you know and it is increasing obvious that there is a real and worsening problem with poverty in this country. Bill English made the comment today that there are many ways to tell a story, many ways to present facts; you are having a go, not very convincingly I have to say, judging by the reaction here, and I and others are telling ours. In my opinion, our story, not yours, is the one that is being widely accepted and that’s what counts when it comes to issues like poverty affecting the outcome of an election – your team will go all out to convince the public that there is no significant poverty in New Zealand while our team will do the same to show that there certainly is. In my view, we already have a major lead and the public has a strong belief that poverty is serious and worsening. Your representatives in Parliament seem defensive, quite rightly, and appear to be doubling-down denial and spin in order to regain the public’s support. I think they’ve already lost the competition for the public’s confidence on this issue, and that’s helped greatly because our position is true and feels true to most people. And that’s what it’s all about.

                    • Gosman

                      Still no evidence I see Mr Guyton. Do you enjoy operating in a fact free environment?

          • Gosman 7.1.1.2.3

            It is in there. The stats worsened between 2007 and 2010 and then have remained relatively static or drifted down. In the first part of that period Labour party policies were in place for 2 out of the 3 years. How come you are attributing the upswing to National?

            • adam 7.1.1.2.3.1

              I see you really into alt-right trolling now Gossey, so Labor did it too, BFW.

              The issue is there is no solution offered by those in power, no desire to fix the issue. Accept you don’t care, you hate the poor, and go play with your mate whaleoil.

              • Gosman

                Where’s the evidence I hate the poor? I think you are meaning to state that you believe that people who think the same as you do care more about those in poverty than someone like myself. If I truly hated the poor why would I support a welfare state?

                • McFlock

                  But you don’t support a welfare state.

                  You support a gossamer-thin pretence of a welfare state to cover your contempt for everyone less fortunate than you.

                  You’ve not once proposed a single policy that would reduce poverty by, say, half, or even eliminate it. You don’t even know why it’s a bad thing.

                  • Gosman

                    Cut middle class welfare and allow people to build house far easier than they can now. Both of those policies will have a greater impact on relative poverty levels than raising the minimum wage will.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, they’ll have a massive impact on relative poverty levels, I agree.

                      But we’re looking for ways to eliminate it, not give you a couple more dank rental properties to stuff the poor into.

                    • Gosman

                      Relative poverty is a factor of inequality between the middle and the bottom .Reduce government support for those in the middle that don’t really need and redirect it to those at the bottom.

                      In relation to housing, note that poverty rates before housing costs have actually fallen over the past 8 years. One of the reasons the poverty rate is persistently high is because housing costs have sky rocketed because we are not building enough houses. Build more houses and poverty rates will decrease.

                      There we go two policies that will do more to alieviate poverty than anything we’ve seen from you lot.

                    • McFlock

                      Bwahahahaha!
                      Your solution to poverty is to level-down the middle class so less people come under the median?

                      Next Dr Gosman will lower the Rheumatic Heart Disease rate by shooting anyone who gets rheumatic fever.

                      Fuck I keep forgetting how much of a sociopath you really are.

                    • Gosman

                      You think relative poverty is a problem. I’ve given you a solution to it. Raising the minimum wage won’t do that. Instituting a living wage certainly won’t either. You are likely to either entrench it or make it worse by doing that.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, it’s “a” solution, I grant you.

                      The solution only a tory could come up with: increase the pool of people living in a higher measure of poverty in order to eliminate harsher poverty without inconveniencing the rich.

                      as for your predictions of the impact of a living wage, keep spouting the tory catechism as if it’s based in reality. Your levelling down solution shows where that leads.

                • adam

                  Oh come on Gossy where have done anything to offer a solution? Just once, when have you said you want a solution, just once? You are doing nothing but what you usually do at this point, and go poor me. Take some responsibility for your actions!

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2

        but today’s unchallenged lie becomes tomorrow’s accepted truth.

        QFT

  7. Karen 8

    Paula Bennett certainly doesn’t like answering questions about child poverty. Goes from smiley Paula to hard-faced Paula very quickly.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-jack-tame-catches-nzs-evasive-new-deputy-pm-unprepared-questions-kiwi-kids-in-severe-poverty?auto=5244794407001

    • Rosemary McDonald 8.1

      Thanks for that link…

      I’m listening and watching as Bubbles’ eyes go cold at Tame’s tone…and I’m waiting, waiting, waiting for Bubbles to say the two magic words that were going to solve the problem of intergenerational poverty and child neglect/abuse.

      Whanau Ora.

      Never came…despite Our 2IC’s fairly recent re connection to her Tainui whakapapa.

      She could have hit pay dirt there…” Oh, Jack…our partners in the Maori Party have secured funding for addressing these issues…Whanau Ora, the wraparound service for all New Zealanders living with multi causal dysfunction.”

  8. Get ready to be bored stiff with the Bennett sob story of how she was a solo mum but pulled her ‘Straps up” and changed her life. Nothing about the fact that it was under a Labour government and nothing about the fact that her family owned a shop and looked after her child whilst she attended university . She’s a fraud regarding that and perhaps now she is playing the Maori card she will tell us how much Maori blood she actually has?

  9. Be prepared to have Bennett continuously repeat the ‘Poor Solo Mum story of how she managed to pull up her “boot straps “. Not ever a mention of the fact that that was under a Labour Government .
    She is also playing the Maori card I wonder just how much Maori blood sh has ? She is a fraud and needs to be shown as such.

    [Quantum has nothing to do with anything. That’s the shit they pull in the US (25%) with the idea being there will be no indigenous peoples. Letting it through because it seems to be comment based on genuine ignorance. Also sent your similar comment that was caught in pending to spam] – Bill

  10. Robertina 11

    Social investment is a successful narrative for the right to avoid responsibility for the system’s failure to provide adequate housing, wages, and benefits. It’s rubbish, of course, but highly effective.
    The problem with the ”technical” monitor is while it plays a straight bat (unlike the now seemingly co-opted Dunedin Study), its measures are open to misinterpretation and concern trolling.
    Income measures can be dismissed as a measure of inequality rather than poverty, and the material hardship measures are also problematic.
    Children’s commissioner Andrew Becroft, interviewed on Morning Report, was railroaded into agreeing that one could just ”go down the list” as the interviewer put it, and start ticking off items as provided to children by corporates and businesses (or whoever).
    And of course that already happens now so it’s hardly a novel idea.
    But the point of the measure in the monitor – and it includes occasion items like birthday parties – is that those items serve as a proxy for underlying deprivation.
    Most people would infer from the interview that corporate or community welfare is the answer and we can simply ”go down the list” and dish out items like shoes and jackets to solve poverty.
    In my view the third world health statistics and their link with housing are a better focus backed by some strong qualitative case studies as well as the raw technical data in the report.

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    Highlighted article: Carbon pricing and planetary boundaries  Engström et al take what might be called a systems approach to evaluating carbon pricing, taking into a account various economic sectors affected by and affecting paying for emissions. The conclusions are overall a rare pleasant surprise— a feature predicated on cooperation.  Abstract: ...
    21 hours ago
  • Humans ignite almost every wildfire that threatens homes
    Nathan Mietkiewicz, National Ecological Observatory Network and Jennifer Balch, University of Colorado Boulder CC BY-ND Summer and fall are wildfire season across the western U.S. In recent years, wildfires have destroyed thousands of homes, forced hundreds of thousands of people to evacuate and exposed tens of millions to harmful ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    23 hours ago
  • Climate Change: China steps up
    China has increased its climate change ambition, and set a target to be carbon-neutral by 2060: China will reach carbon neutrality before 2060 and ensure its greenhouse gas emissions peak in the next decade, Xi Jinping has told the UN general assembly. “China will scale up its intended nationally ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Humans have dealt with plenty of climate variability
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz How much climate variability have humans dealt with since we ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 day ago
  • Indigenous perspectives on unrestricted access to genomic data
    By Genomics Aotearoa researcher Maui Hudson, University of Waikato It is vital that genomics research respects genomic data and genetic heritage from indigenous communities. Genomics research is a rapidly growing field of study, and there is a strong push to make the huge amount of data being produced open ...
    SciBlogsBy Genomics Aotearoa
    1 day ago
  • Terrible luck: lockdowns on learning and youth job prospects
    What is bad luck? Bad luck is spilling spaghetti sauce down your shirt right before an important meeting. When the person in front of you gets the last seat on the bus, that’s bad luck. Bad luck is when it’s sunny outside, so you leave the house without a coat, ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 day ago
  • Ian Powell: Does private healthcare threaten public healthcare in New Zealand?
    Is the private health system impacting negatively on the public health system? Health commentator Ian Powell evaluates a recent NZ Herald article by Natalie Akoorie (“Public v private healthcare: Moonlighting, skimming, duplication – should NZ do better”), and looks at how the dual system works, and concludes that the answer ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    1 day ago
  • A rabbit-hole election debate: So do you want more avocado orchards?
    We live in strange and unusual times. It’s been a century since we’ve endured a global pandemic like this, more than half a century since we’ve had economic woes like this. So maybe we got an opening election debate for the times - because that was a strange and unusual ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    2 days ago
  • LIVE: Jacinda Ardern vs. Judith Collins, First Debate
    Tonight, The Civilian will be live-blogging the first of too many debates between Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and National Party leader Judith Collins, and also the last fifteen minutes of the news. Be sure to tune in from 6:45pm for regular updates, which can be accessed by refreshing this page ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 days ago
  • Hundreds of Aucklanders arrested after illegal mass gathering on Harbour Bridge
    An enormous drive-in party, shown here, was held this morning on Auckland’s Harbour Bridge, where police were forced to intervene. Hundreds of Aucklanders were arrested this morning on public health grounds, after an apparent illegal mass gathering on the city’s Harbour Bridge. Police say hundreds of Aucklanders gathered in their ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 days ago
  • The Looming Fight.
    Social Distancing Be Damned - It's Jacinda! Shortly after ascending to Labour’s leadership, Jacinda described herself as a “pragmatic idealist”. It was an inspired oxymoron – packing into just two words the essence of the social-democrat’s dilemma. It was good to know that she knew what lay ahead of her. ...
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: Moving faster
    Back in 2017, the UK announced that it would ban the sale of new fossil fuel vehicles by 2040. Its a basic climate change measure, aimed at reducing emissions by shifting the vehicle fleet to cleaner technologies. Now, in the wake of the pandemic, they're planning to bring it forward ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • The Australian courts have had enough of refugee detention
    For the past decade, Australia has had a racist, anti-refugee policy. Those claiming refugee status are imprisoned without trial and left to rot in the hope they would "voluntarily" return to be tortured and murdered. When the courts have granted them visas, the government has immediately revoked them on racial ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Friction and the Anti-lock Braking System
    Yesterday afternoon I had to call on my car’s anti-lock braking system (ABS). For reasons best known to its driver, a car pulled out of a side road right in front of me while I was driving home after work, and I needed to stop in a hurry. I rather ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 days ago
  • The Inside Word: New Zealand Quarantine
    There are a fair few misconceptions about conditions within New Zealand’s Quarantine Hotels. Madeline Grant’s misplaced accusations being one prominent example, though she is not alone. Today, I thought I’d share the inside word, so to speak. A friend of mine has recently returned to New Zealand from overseas, and ...
    2 days ago
  • Hard News: ASA: Let’s not talk about this
    Last week, major newspapers carried a full-page ad as part of the campaign for a "No" vote to the referendum question about supporting the Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill. The ad was authorised by the SAM NZ Coalition, which takes its name from a controversial American anti-cannabis group and includes ...
    2 days ago
  • This is not kind
    New Zealand has a serious homelessness problem, due to skyrocketing rents and a lack of state houses. One of the ways we stick a band-aid on it is to put people up in motels. Previously, they were charged full commercial rates, saddled with odious debt due to the government's failure ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Wokies are the establishment
    by Ani O’Brien In the absence of a better word with which to refer to the rabid activists who claim progressivism while demanding adherence to an increasingly prescriptive set of political beliefs, I call them “woke”. With its roots in Black American slang, the term originally denoted a person or ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • How to strengthen the post-isolation Covid rules
    Over the weekend, the Ministry of Health reported a case of Covid-19 in Auckland that is not related to the current Auckland cluster. Before we start to panic, here’s how I think the case happened and how we can strengthen our current border controls. The new Covid-19 case is someone ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    3 days ago
  • Neuralink and You: A Human-AI Symbiosis
    Becky Casale Elon Musk reckons his Neuralink brain implant is much more than a medical device–that one day it will drive a symbiosis between humans and artificial intelligence. “Good morning! I’m Dr Benedict Egg and I’ll be supervising your Neuralink insertion today. Do you have any questions?” “Yes, Doc. ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • Liam Hehir: Our obsession with American politics
    Many New Zealanders take a strong interest in US politics, with the death of Supreme Court Judge Ruth Bader Ginsberg being the latest example. Liam Hehir wonders if it very wise for New Zealanders to get so worked about it.   Many politically engaged New Zealanders are now furiously ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    3 days ago
  • COVID: Back to Level 1
    After stamping the Coronavirus out via strict lockdown between March and May, New Zealand went through a good three months without any community cases. Then a local outbreak in Auckland rather buggered things up last month. Auckland’s been in level 3 and level 2.5 for the past six weeks. ...
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change: Climate injustice
    Who's causing our skyrocketing emissions? As with most of our other problems, It's the rich: The wealthiest 1% of the world’s population were responsible for the emission of more than twice as much carbon dioxide as the poorer half of the world from 1990 to 2015, according to new ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Good riddance
    The border closure and resulting lack of foreign slave-workers is driving the fishing industry out of business: One fishing company is effectively out of business while others are bracing for large financial hits as the deepwater New Zealand industry, unable to get skilled foreign workers into the country, have ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #38
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... The tipping points at the heart of the climate crisis Many parts of the Earth’s climate system have been destabilised by ...
    3 days ago
  • Anyone for Collins?
    In the absence of national public opinion polls, we have had to make do in recent weeks with other guides to voter intentions. Those guides, such as the Auckland Central poll, the incidence of google enquiries and the responses to Vote Compass questions, have suggested, not unexpectedly, that Labour is ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    3 days ago
  • Crusher’s fiscal malfunction
    Crusher Collins - National Party leaderWe all know that the National Party is desperate to gain some traction during this election campaign and have been throwing pretty much everything at the Labour Party in order to try and undermine Jacinda Ardern and what the Coalition Government has achieved. But unfortunately ...
    3 days ago
  • Much of the commentariat’s reporting of the most recent GDP figure was misleading and unhelpful. The prize for the stupidest remark about the GDP figure for second quarter 2020 (2020Q2) released on Thursday (17 Sept) goes to Judith Collins, whose response to Grant Robertson’s comments indicated she did not ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Love and Hate as Complementary Revolutionary Acts
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh goloing@gmail.com (19/09/2020) Che Guevara said that a true revolutionary is motivated by love i.e. love of the oppressed, the poor, the children dying from preventable illnesses. This phrase of his is true but has been used by reformists and their more hippy wing have taken advantage ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #38
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Sep 13, 2020 through Sat, Sep 19, 2020 Editor's Choice Get to Net-Zero by Mid-Century? Even Some Global Oil and Gas Giants Think it Can Be Done A report by a ...
    4 days ago
  • Tax cuts for all!!! (except you, you, and you)
    With the National Party this week announcing a new policy of tax cuts to spice up the election campagin. MyThinks went along to the launch and afterwards we spoke to the party’s finance spokesperson Paul “Golden Touch” Goldsmith. MT: Thanks for speaking to us Mr Goldsmith. PG: No. Thank you. ...
    My ThinksBy boonman
    5 days ago
  • Great Waves Washing Over New Zealand
    Always to islanders danger Is what comes over the seas ‘Landfall in Unknown Seas’ (Allen Curnow)Six economic issues external to New Zealand, which will greatly impact upon us. 1.         The Diminishing Global Dominance of the US. Since 1941 America has dominated the world economically and politically. Probably it could ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand has role to play in resolving crisis on ‘geopolitical fault line’, Helen Clark says
    By Geoffrey Miller New Zealand should continue to champion human rights in Belarus amidst an ongoing crackdown on protests by the country’s regime, former Prime Minister Helen Clark says. Protests in the country often referred to as ‘Europe’s last dictatorship’ erupted after the country’s disputed presidential elections on August 9 ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    6 days ago
  • Euthanasia referendum: How to cut through the emotions
    Jacqui Maguire, registered clinical psychologist This podcast episode highlights how difficult it is to have effective conversations about euthanasia due to how polarised people’s views are. I’m a clinical psychologist, with a passion for science communication. In early 2020 I founded the podcast Mind Brew, with an aim to make psychological ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • Why we need cameras on boats
    In case anyone needed further convincing, there's another example today of why we need cameras on fishing boats: reported seabird bycatch doubled during a camera trial: Commercial fishers operating off Auckland's coast around vulnerable seabirds are twice as likely to report accidentally capturing them when cameras are on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Graham Adams: The religious right’s campaign to spike the euthanasia referendum
    In the leadup to the euthanasia referendum, an array of conservative Christian political organisations is running an expensive campaign to sow doubt about the safety of assisted dying. Graham Adams argues that these religious forces know that Christian arguments aren’t convincing the public, but that it is in the public ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    6 days ago
  • Opportunistic looting
    The National Party has spent the last six months acting horrified at the cost of supporting people through the pandemic and banging on about how the debt must be repaid. So what was their economic policy released today? Massive tax-cuts for the rich, of course! National has walked back ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Uncomfortable Choices.
    Dangerous Times: This will be the choice confronting those coming of age in the 2020s. Embrace Neoliberalism’s belief in racial and sexual equality; adopt its secular and scientific world view; and cultivate the technocratic, multicultural, global outlook required of those who keep the machinery of hyper-capitalism humming. Or, throw your ...
    6 days ago
  • Tony Burton: Covid and benefit payments
    It would be a great time to reform the benefit system, according to former Deputy Chief Economic Advisor at the Treasury, Tony Burton. He argues the complexity of benefit system means that it’s failing to achieve its difficult three core objectives, which form an “iron triangle”.   New Zealand’s benefit ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    6 days ago
  • Talking tax: How to win support for taxing wealth
    Tax Justice UK, September 2020 Serious tax reform is on the political agenda for the first time in decades due to the coronavirus crisis. As this debate hots up it is important to understand what people think about public spending, wealth and tax. Tax Justice UK, along with Survation and ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    6 days ago
  • Getting Tough.
    Not Mucking Around: With upwards of 800 dead from the virus’s resurgence in the Australian state of Victoria, leniency is not on Premier Daniel Andrews’ agenda. The Victorian Police are cracking down hard on the protesters the Australian press has labelled "Covidiots".IMAGES OF POLICE, some in riot gear, others on ...
    6 days ago
  • Media Link: Nuclear strategy, then and now.
    Although I had the fortune of being a graduate student of some of the foremost US nuclear strategists of the day (1970s) and later rubbed shoulders with Air Force and Naval officers who were entrusted with parts of the US nuclear arsenal, I seldom get to write or speak about ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    7 days ago
  • The Chinese List.
    News that Zhenhua Data, an arm of China Zhenhua Electronics Group, a subsidiary of the military-connected China Electronic Information Industry Group (CETC), maintains a list of 800 New Zealanders on a “Overseas Key Information Database” that contains personal information on more than 2.4 million foreign individuals, has caused some consternation ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Things that grow fast, and things that surprise us
    Marie Becdelievre January 2020. The number of news article mentioning coronavirus exploded and anxious voices whispered about a global pandemic. Whisper? To me, it was only a whisper. I tend to learn about the world through non-fiction books, conferences, and academic research rather than news and social media, so ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #37, 2020
    2,082,476,000,000,000 Viability of greenhouse gas removal via the artificial addition of volcanic ash to the ocean  (not open access, unfortunately) walks us through the numbers on a particular means of CO2 removal, addition of volcanic tephra to the ocean. The mechanism is straight chemistry and the cost is fully an order of ...
    1 week ago
  • Barbados to become a republic
    Barbados is planning to remove the queen as head of state and become a republic in time for the 55th anniversary of its independence in 2021: Barbados has announced its intention to remove the Queen as its head of state and become a republic by November 2021. [...] Reading ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Party Like It’s 1989: Bait and Switch is a Bad Look, Mr Hipkins
    At the 2017 election, the New Zealand Labour Party promised a Fees Free Policy for tertiary students. Basically, it would make the first year of university education free in 2018, with a second year in 2021, and a third in 2024. It also promised to restore Post-Graduate access to the ...
    1 week ago
  • Will the tropics eventually become uninhabitable?
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz What is the impact of temperature increases in the tropics? ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • A first-hand look: What it’s like to live in a 2020 California wildfire evacuation zone
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Daisy Simmons It felt like 100 degrees in my in-laws’ Grass Valley, California, kitchen, but at least the lights were on and for the moment we were safely “distanced” from the Jones Fire. We’d just finished dessert, after pizza and a movie ...
    1 week ago
  • COVID-19 is not the only infectious disease New Zealand wants to eliminate, and genome sequencing is...
    Nigel French, Massey University Genome sequencing — the mapping of the genetic sequences of an organism — has helped track the spread of COVID-19 cases in Auckland, but it also plays an important role in the control of other infectious diseases in New Zealand. One example is Mycoplasma bovis, a ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • A flaw in our electoral transparency regime
    A key part of our electoral funding regime is a requirement for some transparency around donations, on the basis that if we can find out who has bought our politicians (typically after we have voted for them) then everything is alright. There are a lot of problems with that regime ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Don’t Steal This Book
    On “In Defense of Looting” Matt Taibibi takes an entertaining look at this generation of woke activists and how they compare with Abbie Hoffman the iconic anti-Vietnam war counter-culture figure of the 1960s On Thursday, August 27th, the same day Donald Trump formally accepted the Republican nomination, National Public Radio ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Carbon prices must rise
    When Parliament introduced the Emissions Trading Scheme, it was worried that carbon prices might get too high. So it introduced a "fixed price option", allowing polluters to pay the government $25 in the place of surrendering credits. The result was predictable: after we were thrown out of international carbon markets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Disclosure
    The government will finally be requiring large New Zealand companies to disclose their climate change risks: New Zealand finance companies will be made to report on climate change risk, Climate Change Minister James Shaw has announced. The policy will force around 200 large financial organisations in New Zealand to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Tackling the hard issues – trust and relationships
    By Claire Grant, Genomics Aotearoa Communications Manager Community consultation is becoming an increasingly important aspect of research programmes in New Zealand, and with that comes the art of relationship building. Engagement between scientists and user-groups is certainly nothing new. But as stakeholder involvement becomes more of a requirement for science, ...
    SciBlogsBy Genomics Aotearoa
    1 week ago
  • Equality Network – September Newsletter
    Read the Equality Network newsletter here ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • The Left’s Lost Allies.
    Rebels In A Wrong Cause: The truly frightening thing about Jami-Lee Ross’s and Billy Te Kahika’s success in persuading thousands of New Zealanders that Covid-19 is just another trick, just another way of stealing away their power, is realising just how many of them once marched at the Left’s side. ...
    1 week ago
  • Legal Beagle: Low-Hanging Fruit
    In a couple of months, the 53rd Parliament will meet in Wellington, and approximately 120 MPs will be sworn in, many of them for the first time.They will all have political goals, some aligning with their party platforms, some not, some complex, and some simple, but they will gain one ...
    1 week ago
  • Closing the Gap thinks that Labour’s proposal to raise the top tax rate is great but………
    Media Statement For Immediate Release 10th September 2020 The income and wealth inequality lobby group, “Closing the Gap” thinks the Labour proposal a great start says Peter Malcolm, a spokesperson for the group. But they need to be aware of what many of the rich do and of what do ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: No nonsense
    ACT is pushing a "no-nonsense climate change plan". What does it involve? Repealing the Zero Carbon Act and Emissions Trading Scheme, reversing the fossil-fuel exploration ban, and allowing mining on conservation land. In other words, repealing any policy which might actually reduce emissions. Which is the very definition of nonsensical. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • My Climate Story: Coming full Circle
    This blog post is a follow up to my recap of Al Gore's Climate Reality Leadership Training I recently participated in. One of the exercises we were asked to complete was to write about our respective "Climate Story". This is a slightly updated version to the one I had submitted during ...
    1 week ago
  • A bill to criminalise wage theft
    Wage theft is a problem in New Zealand, with a widespread practice of forcing employees to work without pay, and regular cases of underpayment and exploitation. One reason why its such a widespread problem is impunity: rather than a crime, wage theft is merely a tort, dealt with by the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Liam Hehir: What the voting age debate tells us about our disconnected political media
    New Zealand’s media and online politics often reflect the values of liberal and progressive agendas. According to Liam Hehir, the current proposals to lower the voting age to 16 years – which the media overwhelming supports – is indicative of a wider mismatch with society, which is not good for ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    1 week ago
  • Why Pay Taxes?
    My wife and I, through a combination of good luck and good management, have managed to retire in comfortable circumstances. We celebrate our good fortune by making relatively small but regular donations to a range of good causes – to rescue services like the rescue helicopters, St John’s Ambulance and ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • Now everyone’s a statistician. Here’s what armchair COVID experts are getting wrong
    Jacques Raubenheimer, University of Sydney If we don’t analyse statistics for a living, it’s easy to be taken in by misinformation about COVID-19 statistics on social media, especially if we don’t have the right context. For instance, we may cherry pick statistics supporting our viewpoint and ignore statistics showing we ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • More timid bullshit from Labour
    Over the weekend, Labour released its welfare policy: an increase in benefit abatement thresholds. And that's it. Faced with clear evidence of ongoing hardship among beneficiaries and a call from its on Welfare Expert Advisory Group to raise core benefits by between 12 percent and 47 percent, Labour's response is ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago

  • Building business strength with digital tools
    New training and tools for digital commerce will give small businesses, especially in the tourism sector, the support they need to adapt and innovate in a COVID world. Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis and Small Business Minister Stuart Nash have announced details of how $20 million digital capability funding set aside ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • New pest lures to protect nature
    The Department of Conservation (DOC) is investing $1.4 million to develop new predator lures that would be game-changers for trapping and surveillance towards a predator-free Aotearoa, the Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage, announced in Christchurch today. The proposal is to develop long-life lures attractive to a range of predators—rats, mustelids ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Support for innovative Pacific education responses to COVID-19 needs
    Supporting new and creative Pacific education practices as part of our COVID-19 response and recovery is the focus of a new $28.5 million Pacific Education Innovation Fund announced today by Associate Minister of Education Jenny Salesa.  “There is already an incredible amount of innovative and creative work going on in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Eligibility expanded for COVID-19 leave support
    The expanded scheme will cover: People who have COVID-19 like symptoms and meet the Ministry of Health’s criteria, and need to self-isolate while awaiting the results of a COVID-19 test. People who are directed to self-isolate by a Medical Officer of Health or their delegate or on advice of their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Seasonal work visa available to more people
    The Government is putting in place a range of immigration policy changes to help fill labour shortages in key industries while ensuring New Zealanders, who have lost jobs due to COVID-19, have the chance to find new employment. “Two key sectors we are moving to help are horticulture and wine ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • More border exceptions for critical roles
    The Government has established class exceptions for border entry for a limited number of veterinarians, deep sea fishing crew, as well as agricultural and horticultural machinery operators. “Tight border restrictions remain the backbone of the Government’s border strategy to protect New Zealand against COVID-19 and ensure New Zealand citizens and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Crown will not appeal Dodds v Southern Response decision
    The Crown will not appeal the Court of Appeal decision in the Dodds v Southern Response case, Grant Robertson announced today. “Southern Response will be paying the damages awarded by the Court to Mr and Mrs Dodds shortly. The Crown was already meeting their legal costs for this appeal. “The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Crucial PGF investments for Northland
    The Provincial Growth Fund is investing nearly $30 million in a diverse range of projects that will create immediate and long-term jobs and lift economic and social outcomes for Northland and its people. Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones made the announcement today in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • $27million investment in global vaccine facility
    The Coalition Government has committed to invest $27 million in COVID-19 vaccine development through the global COVAX Facility, Foreign Minister Winston Peters announced today. “The COVAX Facility is a key part of our COVID-19 Vaccine Strategy to obtain safe and effective vaccines. It allows us to invest in a high-quality, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government backing Māori landowners
    The Government will provide up to $1.69 million through the One Billion Trees programme to Māori landowners to make their whenua more productive through the planting of forests, both native and exotic, and improve economic and environmental outcomes, Forestry Minister Shane Jones has announced. “Around 1.5 million ha of land ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New tools to make nature more accessible
    People planning to head outdoors now have a resource that lets them know how accessible an area is for people with varying levels of mobility, Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage announced today. The Halberg Foundation, Sensibel, and the Department of Conservation (DOC) have launched Accessibel, a new tool which helps ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • PGF makes Māori history more accessible
    One of the most significant battle sites of the 1860s Land Wars will receive $2.96 million from the Provincial Growth Fund to improve the site and help tell the New Zealand story to visitors, Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta and Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones have announced. Nanaia Mahuta ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Making it official: The journey of te reo Māori | Kia whakapūmautia: Ngā piki me ngā heke o te r...
    The journey towards recognising Māori as an official language and taonga has been captured as a web series and launched today during Te Wiki o te Reo Māori, announced Associate Arts, Culture and Heritage Minister Carmel Sepuloni. “Te reo Māori is a living language, and understanding its significance, and pathways to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Better-than-forecast GDP reflects decision to protect New Zealand
    Today’s better-than-forecast GDP figures show the expected impact of the decision to act quickly to protect New Zealanders from the global COVID-19 pandemic. GDP fell 12.2% in the June quarter from March, reflecting decisions to close New Zealand’s borders and enter Alert Level 4. “This result was better than the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Boost for COVID-19 related Pacific education needs
    The Government is investing $39.7 Million over four years to support the educational needs of Pacific learners and families in the regions hardest hit by COVID-19, with Auckland getting an immediate boost, Associate Minister of Education Jenny Salesa says.   “Like all New Zealanders Pacific families want learners to do well ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More resources for kiwi conservation
    New Zealand’s goal of 100,000 kiwi by 2030 is being helped by an extra $19.7 million in funding to accelerate iwi and community efforts to protect kiwi, Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage announced. “$19.7 million of Jobs for Nature funding is being invested in kiwi conservation activities including increased predator ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Improving access to affordable electricity
    Ensuring New Zealanders can get the best deal on their electricity takes a step in the right direction today with the South Island launch of the EnergyMate pilot run by the Electricity Retailers’ Association, says Minister of Energy and Resources, Dr Megan Woods. EnergyMate is an industry-led programme providing coaching ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government achieves 50 percent women on state boards
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter announced today that the Government has reached its target of 50 percent on women on state sector board and committees – setting a new record level of women on state sector boards. “This Government is committed to having more women in leadership roles - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Record transport investment to help economic recovery and save lives
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford released today the final Government Policy Statement on land transport (GPS) 2021 which outlines the planned $48 billion investment in services and infrastructure over the next decade. “The final GPS supports our Government’s five-point plan for economic recovery by confirming our record investments in transport infrastructure ...
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    1 week ago
  • Advancing clean energy technology
    Three ambitious and cutting-edge research programmes that will lift New Zealand’s advanced energy technology research capability over seven years, have been supported by Government today, says Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods. The projects will each receive a share of $40.7 million investment from the Strategic Science Investment Fund. ...
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    1 week ago
  • Major milestone reached in Pike River Re-entry
    The critical area for forensic examination known as Pit Bottom in Stone has been reached in what is a major milestone for the Pike River re-entry project, Minister Responsible for Pike River Re-entry Andrew Little announced. “The infrastructure located in Pit Bottom in Stone is of very significant interest in ...
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    1 week ago
  • Economic recovery guides Govt response to retirement income policy review
    The Government is working on how New Zealand’s retirement income policies and settings can best support Kiwis in light of the COVID-19 economic recovery, with the help of the Retirement Commissioner’s latest review, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said. “The Retirement Commissioner’s three-yearly review into New Zealand’s retirement ...
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    1 week ago
  • Iwi community hub opens in Murupara
    A new digital hub and development centre in Murupara will be instrumental in growing the region’s productivity, said Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau at the official opening of two community initiatives today. “I’m pleased to be here celebrating a significant milestone for two projects set to make a ...
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    1 week ago
  • PREFU shows economy doing better than forecast
    PREFU shows economy doing better than forecast Unemployment to peak at 7.8%, down from 9.8% forecast in the Budget Year-to-June accounts show tax revenue, debt and OBEGAL better than forecast Global forecast downgraded as COVID-19 second waves and uncertainty grows Balanced plan to support critical public services, manage debt and ...
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    1 week ago
  • Spruce-up for Ōtaki community facilities
    The Kāpiti Coast town of Ōtaki will receive $1.4 million in Government funding for two projects providing scores of jobs for locals while improving community facilities, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. The Māoriland Charitable Trust will receive a $900,000 Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) grant to upgrade the ...
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    1 week ago
  • PGF funding for Jobs for Nature programme
    The Provincial Growth Fund will provide $11.88 million to fund fencing and waterway projects nationwide that will improve the environment and create jobs in their communities, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. “These projects will create more than 100 jobs nationwide with work starting within the next couple ...
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    1 week ago
  • Procurement to promote jobs, Māori and Pasifika businesses and sustainability
    As part of the COVID-19 recovery, the Government has strengthened its procurement rules to ensure its annual $42 billion spend creates more jobs, uses more sustainable construction practices and results in better outcomes for Māori and Pasifika, Government Ministers announced today.   Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford says the $42 ...
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    1 week ago
  • Timaru’s Theatre Royal to be upgraded and new heritage facility built
    The Government is supporting a major upgrade of Timaru’s iconic Theatre Royal and the construction of a new connected Heritage Facility museum and exhibition space with $11.6 million from the Government’s Infrastructure Fund, Jacinda Ardern announced today. “We heard the call from the community and the council. The Theatre Royal ...
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    1 week ago
  • District Court judge appointed
    Chrissy Montague (formerly Armstrong), barrister of Auckland has been appointed as a District Court Judge with Family Court jurisdiction to be based in Wellington, Attorney-General David Parker announced today. Ms Montague commenced practice in Auckland in 1987 and went into general practice dealing with Wills, Estates, Trusts, Conveyancing, Relationship Property ...
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    1 week ago
  • Approval given to Commercial Film and Video Production Proposal
      A Proposal to provide for the development and operation of commercial film and video production facilities in areas of Christchurch has been given the go ahead. Hon Poto Williams, Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, has approved the Proposal, which was prepared and submitted by Regenerate Christchurch. Minister Williams ...
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    1 week ago
  • Supporting a thriving wānanga sector to benefit Māori learners
    As part of the Government’s focus on building closer partnerships with Māori and enhancing the quality of, and access to, Māori medium education, a payment of $8 million will be made to Te Wānanga o Raukawa in partial recognition of its Waitangi Tribunal claim (WAI 2698), Associate Education Minister Kelvin ...
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    1 week ago
  • Jobs for Nature boosts efforts to restore Kaimai-Mamaku
    The Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage has announced a $19 million investment over four years in an important forest restoration project involving a partnership between the Department of Conservation, iwi/hapū, the Bay of Plenty and Waikato Regional Councils, community conservation groups and organisations such as Forest and Bird across the ...
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    1 week ago
  • New Zealand first in the world to require climate risk reporting
    New Zealand will be the first country in the world to require the financial sector to report on climate risks, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. The changes build on the huge progress this Government has made to tackle the climate crisis. “Today is another step on ...
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    1 week ago
  • Economic data highlights impact of Auckland moving out of Level 3
    Economic activity across the Auckland region and the country bounced back to levels experienced under Alert Level 1 following Auckland’s move out of Alert Level 3, analysis in the Treasury’s latest Weekly Economic Update shows. The analysis of economic data since Auckland’s move out of Level 3 shows: Auckland card ...
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    1 week ago
  • PM statement on Cabinet COVID-19 Alert Level review
    Takiri mai te ata, ka ao, ka ao, ka awatea, tihei mauriora! Tātou katoa ngā iwi o Aotearoa, tēnā koutou! Tēnā tātou e whakanuia ana i te wiki nei, te wiki o te reo Māori Greeting to you all from Otepoti, Dunedin.  This week is the Māori Language week and ...
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    1 week ago
  • More mental wellbeing services for young people in regions
    More mental health and addiction services are available for young New Zealanders in Rotorua and Taupō, Wairarapa, South Canterbury, Dunedin and Southland from next month, Health Minister Chris Hipkins and Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter say. “The Government is serious about making sure New Zealanders struggling with mental health ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government joins forces with Central Otago communities to clean up waterways
    The Manuherekia catchment in Central Otago is the third exemplar catchment to be targeted as part of the Government’s plan to clean up waterways by supporting community-led programmes.   Environment Minister David Parker said the Manuherekia catchment is vitally important to the people of Central Otago.  “The Manuherekia rises in the ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government confirms new Dunedin Hospital design
    The Government has agreed on a preferred design for the new Dunedin Hospital featuring two separate buildings, and has provided funding for the next stages of work.   Minister of Health Chris Hipkins says Cabinet has approved in principle the detailed business case for the new hospital, giving people in ...
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    1 week ago
  • Join the one in a million reo Māori moment
    New Zealanders across the country are set to mark history as part of the Māori Language Week commemorations led by Te Taura Whiri i te reo Māori this year.  Māori Development Minister, Nanaia Mahuta says the initiative will mark history for all the right reasons including making te reo Māori ...
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    1 week ago
  • Education initiatives add to momentum of Te Wiki o te Reo Māori 2020
    More than 1000 teachers, support staff and school leaders have graduated from a programme designed to grow their capability to use te reo Māori in their teaching practice, as part of the Government’s plan to integrate te reo Māori into education, Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Being trialled ...
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    1 week ago