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If Judith and Gerry are the answer it must have been a desperate question

Written By: - Date published: 7:55 am, July 15th, 2020 - 189 comments
Categories: Gerry Brownlee, jacinda ardern, Judith Collins, national, same old national, todd muller - Tags:

So Judith Collins is now National leader and Gerry Brownlee is the deputy.

Yesterday was a day to remember for political tragics.  At 7:35 am Todd Muller was gone, by 9 pm Judith Collins was leader.

Her initial comments and visuals were to suggest that all is now united in National land.  This is undermined by the leaking that was occurring at the time.  Rather than National having the ability to create a splash by Judith and Gerry appearing from behind the blue curtain details were leaked to the media.  And it was also leaked that Paora Goldsmith had a tilt for the deputy position.

She was interviewed this morning by Corin Dann on Morning Report.

She pledged to retain current caucus ratings.  But Michael Woodhouse is not safe and his future will depend on her diving into what happened.  I suspect within days he may be demoted if not gone completely.

Collins did engage in some good old race baiting by again asking if there was something wrong with being white and then pivoting by saying her husband is Samoan.  I can recall Don Brash doing and saying something similar.

She was asked if she resiled from Dirty Politics and her relationship with Cameron Slater.  She said she did not want that sort of culture any more and said that she had learned from her mistakes.  I wonder how Cameron will respond to his bestie publicly humiliating him in such a cruel way.

She has a couple of lines that she will use ad nauseum.  One is that Labour did not appreciate Ardern before she became leader.  What utter bollocks.  The other is that only National can properly look after the economy.  Of course this has been disproved time and time again.

And she pledged there will be no tax increases and no cuts to health if she became Prime Minister.  I presume this means that cuts to Education, Conservation and Social Welfare will all be on the drawing board.

Of course National still have some major problems ahead.  60 days out from election day it has no detailed policy and no party list.

Judith and Gerry may instil necessary discipline on the caucus.  But all this will do is stem the leaking of support.  They may have saved a few MPs their seats.  But in this fast moving world where future looking leadership is vital Judith and Gerry are as anachronistic as you can get.

If Judith and Gerry are the answer it must have been a desperate question

189 comments on “If Judith and Gerry are the answer it must have been a desperate question ”

  1. observer 1

    Woodhouse will be gone, that's clear.

    There will be lots of provocative headlines over the coming days, lots more excitement for the political tragics. But they (we) are a small minority of voters. The worry for the left is that people take the bait, which is exactly what Collins wants. You know the kind of thing – Lab/Greens announce big health policy, Collins gets in an hour beforehand saying "white people are fine", and the Standard has 200 comments on what that means and half a dozen on health.

    Ardern has clearly shown that ignoring the "dead cat" is the right strategy – she won't be playing Collins' game. Nor should the rest of us.

  2. SPC 2

    Judy and Gerry, one to attack and the other to take the return blows. And he can back up her threat to crush the government by eating its lunch and sitting on them.

    And no one will be talking about white bread with Brownlee as deputy. surprise

    • Sacha 2.1

      Can we please not get sucked into jibes about Brownlee's appearance. His lack of talent offers more than enough ammo.

  3. Cinny 3

    Will their list be re-shuffled again?

    • SPC 3.1

      It's our only clue as to who declared support for whom before the ballot.

    • observer 3.2

      They haven't released their election list yet (as opposed to the Parliament rankings).

      That's when more toys will be chucked: MPs know some of them are going to lose their jobs.

  4. Robert Guyton 4

    How will Jacinda meet the challenge of the new Leader of the Opposition?

    In the same way she dealt with the other disasters she's faced during her first term as Prime Minister.

  5. She was asked if she resiled from Dirty Politics and her relationship with Cameron Slater. She said she did not want that sort of culture any more and said that she had learned from her mistakes. I wonder how Cameron will respond to his bestie publicly humiliating him in such a cruel way.

    She seemed to politically distance herself fairly rapidly and effectively after Dirty Politics in 2014.

    She now says it was a bad culture at the time but she learnt from mistakes and has moved on. I think she will make sure of that.

    But that doesn't eliminate the problem. Slater has a habit of big noting and hinting at having inside information and tips (often without fronting up with any substance or evidence). He could embarrass Collins without her involvement, he has a history of putting his ego first and not caring about the damage he does to others.

    • ianmac 5.1

      She seemed to politically distance herself fairly rapidly and effectively after Dirty Politics in 2014.

      Check my link at 21 Pete. Nicky Hager disputes the distance and the exoneration.

      • Pete George 5.1.1

        Nicky disputes the claimed exoneration, fair enough.

        But he says nothing about her subsequent distancing from Slater. I haven't seen anything that suggests she has supplied Slater with any political material since 2014.

        She and National treated him as politically toxic (for good reason), and Slater has been moaning about being cut off since.

    • Gabby 5.2

      She's learnt it's best not to get caught.

    • Incognito 5.3

      Slater is a dead cat. DP is a culture and this culture is embedded in the National Party and embodied by a number of people. One catharsis doesn’t make it pure as white snow.

      • Pete George 5.3.1

        I agree that it's a culture that National have obviously had problems ridding themselves of. Muller tried to move on from it but the message didn't get through to all of his MPs.

        Time will tell whether Collins can prove she has learnt from mistakes and can do politics decently. If she is determined to do that I think she will be a lot harder on any MPs who don't play clean. We'll have to wait and see, apart from those who forever condemn for past sins (of MPs/parties they don't like) and have launched into discrediting campaigns that in the main only like minded people will take any serious notice of.

        I've been prepared to give any new leader (of National or Labour over the past decade) a chance to prove whether they can do a decent job and demand likewise of their MPs. I believe Muller wanted to but didn't have control of or loyalty from MPs. I don't know how Collins actually wants to run things but hope she does lift the standard somewhat.

        • Incognito

          I hope so too but hopes are too easily dashed.

          • Pete George

            Collins said on RNZ:

            Collins said the National Party doesn't want to have the kind of culture described in Nicky Hager's 2014 book Dirty Politics.

            "The whole culture at the time wasn't one that was conducive to doing the very best we could."

            "You can't be focussed on New Zealanders when you're busy playing politics.

            "One of the things I've learned over the years is you only ever learn from your mistakes, you don't learn from your successes. The National Party is very focussed on not repeating any mistakes."


            I hope she can put this into practice, and also get her caucus to not repeat past dirty politics mistakes, which is a big challenge.

            I'm sure she and all National MPs will be closely scrutinised for any sign of playing dirty. I think this is a good thing.

            And if Collins manages to deliver on her promise here then our politics and our democracy will be the better for it.

            Jacinda has committed to a nicer way of doing politics. Greens in Parliament (excluding some Green activists) have well earned reputations for clean and ethical standards in politics. David Seymour hasn't been bad on this either.

            Winston Peters has old school dirty politics ingrained, but NZ First may struggle to survive the election, and that would retire that.

            So if Collins can largely deliver on this then our Parliament will be much the better for it.

            I hope from that the cleansing will wash down through the partisan ranks.

  6. Andre 6

    Jaeezzussss. That is one sick mind to create an image with so much wrongness packed into it. Couldn't finish my breakfast.

  7. Stuart Munro 7

    Judith is a natural leader for National – weak intellects demand a strong leader – democrats prefer a responsive one.

    The choice of Brownlee comes with no obvious benefits – it seems to have been an imposition of internal Gnat politics.

    They deserve each other – but NZ deserves better:

    God’s bodykins, man, much better.
    Use every man after his desert,
    and who should ’scape whipping?
    Use them after your own honor and dignity.
    The less they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty.
    Hamlet Act 2 Scene 2

    • Gabby 7.1

      [deleted infantile name calling and replaced with his correct name: Brownlee] can get the gang to the front of the queue, especially in airports.

  8. Tricledrown 8

    The Punch and Judy show

    • Robert Guyton 8.1

      Tricledrown's "Punch & Judy" captures it perfectly.

      (Edit: always read your handle as "trickledown" till now 🙂

      • lprent 8.1.1

        always read your handle as "trickledown" till now

        It was and sometimes still is. There is a certain creative variability in the handle used – and a certain despair amongst moderators who have to release the comments whenever handles or 'email' addresses change.

    • Incognito 8.2

      Judy pulls no punches, says her book cover. But never judge a book by its cover.

  9. Muttonbird 9

    What we know of all the players in the National Party leadership over the last three months is that Judith Collins has shown herself to be the dirtiest and most corrupt of the lot.

    And that is saying something.

    If NZ were shocked at the behaviour of the National Party under Simon Bridges and Todd Muller, they have a big surprise coming…

    • Enough is Enough 9.1

      Who was shocked with their behavour?

      Its what they do and will always do

  10. Adrian 10

    Beware of the Revenge of the Hooton.

  11. vto 11

    I thought New Zealand and its electorate had moved orbit the last wee while…

    Maybe not in the strange worlds of conservatives eh…

    Conservatives are mere followers of course so they will catch up in time and dump these two dinosaurs … meantime it's a funny old choice they have made …

    • observer 11.1

      It's not that strange, it's a rational choice for people who only care about themselves. It's not about winning the election at all.

      The base will be happy, the drift to ACT will stop, so most MPs will keep their jobs. The ones who can't stand Collins (many) can then dump her after the election.

      Candidates who want to become MPs are the ones who miss out. But they didn't get a vote.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1

        The ones who can't stand Collins (many) can then dump her after the election.

        Have been thinking, since I heard that Gerry had become deputy, that this was their Last Hurrah before retirement.

        These two dinosaurs can step down gracefully after the election for retirement without the party actually kicking them out (National doesn't keep leaders that lose) and still get to put Leader/Deputy on their CV.

      • Enough is Enough 11.1.2


        What this does is energize the Nat base. I know many people around here turn off to and block dissenting voices but for those of us who don't, we have seen the right wing rabble on twitter moving away from the leadership over the past couple of months. The loony right though has come back home in the past 12 hours.

        That won't win them the election but it will stabilise the rot.

      • Incognito 11.1.3

        Agreed. The lack of genuine policy is an obvious give-away although they had other things to worry about.

        They will weaponise the party and turn them in the direction of the common enemy instead of shooting at each other. Of course, it will be lauded as “a re-united party”. Their aim seems to be to cause as much political damage and fall-out and as many political casualties as possible in the little bit of time left. Look out for recruitment and conscription of MSM and SM; many will sign up voluntary.

    • Paddington 11.2

      Conservatism has a goal of social stability. So who do you suggest they are 'following'?

      • vto 11.2.1

        I must disagree Paddington. In my experience conservatism does not have a goal of social security at all (witness Trumpland, Brazil, our own John Key in fomenting social disorder at the lower levels via employment rights weakening and failure to provide housing).

        It has a goal of status quo. That is not the same as social stability at all.

        Combine that with representing capital over labour et voila – nothing like social stability.

        And so 'who are they following?' They are following the same people they always have – the hippies, the liberals, the people who take the nation to new places.. in evidence witness green policies, living on Waiheke, nuclear free, men and women getting the vote, welfare state.

        The world moves, the conservatives get dragged along

        They are like the ballast in the ship's hold and that is where they need to stay. That is their use and purpose – nothing above deck

        • Draco T Bastard


          Conservatism is a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. The central tenets of conservatism include tradition, organic society, hierarchy, authority, and property rights.[1] Conservatives seek to preserve a range of institutions such as religion, parliamentary government, and property rights, with the aim of emphasizing social stability and continuity.[2] The more traditional elements—reactionaries—oppose modernism and seek a return to "the way things were".

          Of course, just because they say that they're going for social stability doesn't mean that that is what they'll achieve. Their main objective is to stop things from changing and many want to take things back to the way things were (i.e, serfdom) but, of course, they're not actually going to say that as the past really was worse than today (except for the born leaders).

          • vto

            Thanks DtB. You disappeared from these pages for a while (like quite a few of us…). Good to swap notes again… and learn from those more learned…

          • Paddington

            " Of course, just because they say that they're going for social stability doesn't mean that that is what they'll achieve. "

            Absolutely. Human beings use ideology for their own purposes, sometimes malevolent, sometimes benevolent.

        • Paddington

          Conservatism has traditionally been asociated with social stability. That is how it is generally defined and characterised. I see stability as the status quo. Stability is 'the state of being stable'.

      • Incognito 11.2.2

        Nope, their goal is economic stability.

        • I Feel Love

          Economic Stability for a very particular privileged sect.

          • Incognito

            That’s not what you said or implied. So what is it now: social stability to ensure economic stability or the other way round? In your own words, if you can.

            • Paddington

              You're thinking is so limited, incognito. Here’s what I said:

              “Conservatism has a goal of social stability.” Do you not agree with that?

              • Incognito

                Your engagement here is severely lacking and you’re too lazy to put up a decent argument. If it’s beyond you to explain something in your own words maybe you should not initiate any discussion. The onus is on you, not on me or somebody else to study the contents of the links and trying to figure out what you meant or had in mind; we’re not mind readers. Please do me a favour a stop your spray & walk-away comments. Thanks in advance.

                Edit: I’ve already told you the A.

                • Paddington

                  Here’s what I said:

                  “Conservatism has a goal of social stability.”

                  You replied:

                  "Nope, their goal is economic stability."

                  I relied that conservatism is more broad ranging than that.

                  Either you don't know the meaning of the word 'a', or you’re trolling.

                  Edit: there is no onus on me to correct your cognitive deficiencies.

                  • Incognito

                    I can’t help it that you wished I’d written “a” too but I hadn’t. Feel free to put your perspective on social stability as a goal without even mentioning the overarching goal of economic stability. But so far you have been conveniently avoiding doing any intellectual work here and you’re nit-picking over a one-letter word. Are you manufacturing microchips for pets by any chance? My cognitive deficiencies are not your problem nor is my “trolling” your comments. Your problem is your behaviour here together with your attitude; your problem is becoming my problem, but we’re working on it, aren’t we?

                    • Paddington

                      I'm really not interested in what you wrote.

                      My comment was very clear. Social stability is a goal of conservatism.

                      Perhaps if you stopped trolling and actually read what people write, you'd make less an arse of yourself.

                    • Incognito []

                      It is rather obvious that you’re really not interested in what others or I write and that you’d rather act like a ventriloquist talking to himself through his colon. I do wonder why you comment here at all given that you seem to be mostly interested in point-scoring and not in discussion, least of all with someone who might disagree with and challenge you. Obviously, there is much more to conservatism than the two words “social stability”. However, those two links of yours were extremely long and heavy-going articles of academic nature discussing philosophical and historical aspects of conservatism; was that some kind of twisted joke to prove that “[i]t’s far more broad ranging than that”? If you come here to score points, take the piss, and get all pissy when you are challenged in any way shape or form, I think you’d be better off staying away from TS and instead, for example, take your boat out for a trip; the fresh air will do you could and you won’t be missed here by many.

                    • Paddington

                      "It is rather obvious that you’re really not interested in what others or I write…"

                      No, only you. You have demonstrated numerous times you are unable to grasp the most simple of concepts, and try to disguise when you're callled on it with petty points scoring. This latest example is just one of many. Read back through your comments. You should be embarrased, but i doubt you will be that aware.

                    • Incognito []

                      Indeed, I’m not very self-aware but that’s not the issue at hand or an issue for TS. Others struggle too with your comments and ‘engagement’ in discussion and have come to the conclusion that you are commenting “[y]ou’re commenting here in bad faith”, not to mention Lprent’s opinion of your comments. You may consider it to not your doing and therefore not your problem but I see it differently. This is not simply a situation in which we can agree to disagree so again, I invite you to reconsider if and how you want to engage here on TS. For example, what do you personally get out of it and what might others gain from your contribution and engagement here, in your opinion? These are possible questions for you to ponder, of course, while I have to consider what you may add to or take away from the commentary on this site. Suffice to say, I lean towards the negative side of the ledger.

                    • Paddington

                      " Others struggle too with your comments and ‘engagement’ "

                      Nope, only you. “Conservatism has a goal of social stability.” Not a difficult concept to grasp.

                      [Fascinating to see you denying that others too have identified issues with your comments here. I think this goes to the core of the problem, which is clearly and undeniably you. Unless you intend to change your behaviour, I think we’re all better off without your comments if they are not made in good faith. Please give a clear indication of whether you would like to keep commenting here or not, thanks – Incognito]

                      [BTW, if the concept is not difficult to grasp, why didn’t you explain it in your own words instead of dumping two links to lengthy hard-going academic articles? Do you think that it is a sign of good faith and that it shows genuine engagement? Just asking – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []

                      See my Moderation note @ 6:30 PM.

                    • Muttonbird

                      Conservatism has a goal of social stability.

                      Why then is their policy suite geared otherwise?

              • In Vino

                Personally, I have found Paddington a prevaricator, who quotes Govt Stats on education as if they were Gospel truth, but refuses to even consider OECD stats. A troll, just as you accuse him, Incognito.

                • Incognito

                  I have given Paddington many chances but they seem to get rather hung up on me and my personal deficits, which, I don’t deny, are plentiful. This is their last chance, make or break time, before the big Pre-Election Clear-Out commences.

                  • Paddington

                    What precidely would you like me to explain?

                    That conservatism has a a goal of social stability? Do you seriously need that explained?


                    " Conservatives thus favour institutions and practices that have evolved gradually and are manifestations of continuity and stability." https://www.britannica.com/topic/conservatism

                    Or here:

                    " The social conservative movement is motivated by a large cross-section of concerns, but it also clearly possesses identifiable key themes: Strong families, social stability, religion, and honorable personal conduct. "


                    Or here:

                    " Conservatives seek to preserve a range of institutions such as monarchy, religion, parliamentary government and property rights with the aim of emphasizing social stability "


                    So put that in our pipe and smoke it!

                  • Paddington

                    Now let's look at what YOU said:

                    "Nope, their goal is economic stability. "

                    So you denied that social stability is A goal of conservatism. Correct?

                  • Paddington

                    Actually, it's simple. VTO stated this: "Conservatives are mere followers of course" I asked a straight forward question…conservatism generally supports the ststus quo. So who are they 'following'. Indeed the very idea of conservatives following anyone or any thing seems like at oxymoron.

                    Over the months I've been posting here, it has become clear to me that you read a comment part way through a thread and jump in like a 3 year old. Lift your game.

                    [This could have been an interesting and informative discussion about the goals of conservatism/conservatives and we could have agreed on many things. Just like you, I can provide links that show what I had in mind. For example:

                    Many of the speeches we have heard from Conservatives recently have focused on social policy – how we create a stronger society; how we tackle problems like drug abuse, failing schools, low aspirations and family breakdown. It is refreshing and exciting to hear Conservatives talking about these issues with passion and confidence.

                    This is very different from thirty years ago. Then the debate was primarily about economic policy.

                    But they remind us of something that is as true now as it was then: that without a strong and stable economy, the social promises of politicians are worthless. A strong society depends on a strong economy.

                    However interesting our social policies may be, we will not have the chance to implement them until we gain public confidence in our economic policies. To be blunt: unless we come to be trusted to run the economy we will not be trusted to run the country.

                    And I hope to show how we can meet those long-term challenges by pursuing an economic policy based on four key objectives: macro economic stability; increased productivity; reduced long term demands on the state; and lower taxes.

                    We need an economic policy that provides stability, that improves the productivity of our workforce, that makes sure the state is efficient and effective in the money it spends, and that reduces long term demands on the taxpayer so we can have lower taxes.

                    We need policies that help to safeguard stability, for without stability everything else is at risk. So the first overriding objective of Conservative economic policy is to reinforce macroeconomic stability.

                    We must reinforce macroeconomic stability, as stability is crucial to everything else we want to achieve. Hence our first objective.

                    There’s a lot more and it is a good speech from 2005 by an actual conservative.


                    However, we have long moved past the above discussion and trying to score points in the debate to the actual issue at stake here, which is your poor behaviour in engaging with other commenters who disagree with and challenge you; I’m but one of those commenters.

                    You’re still stuck in your game of winning vs. losing and being right, which is an exercise in futility at the best of times.

                    I don’t expect you to acknowledge this let alone confirm it based on your history here and it is obvious that you won’t be changing your ways because I, least of all, have asked you to do so, repeatedly; the issue is all mine and all in my head, or so goes your ‘reasoning’.

                    Until you accept that you play the main part in this, others and I will be wasting our time on and with you and the same things will reoccur and continue.

                    Thus, you now have two choices:

                    1. Change and stay;
                    2. Don’t change and leave.

                    1 or 2?


                    • Incognito

                      See my final Moderation note to you @ 10:57 AM.

                    • Paddington

                      " However, we have long moved past the above discussion"

                      You've never even tried to have that discussion.

                      This discussion began with this post https://thestandard.org.nz/if-judith-and-gerry-are-the-answer-it-must-have-been-a-desperate-question/#comment-1730231, to which I replied "Conservatism has a goal of social stability. So who do you suggest they are 'following'? "

                      That discussion continued between two or three of us, until you posted your first response at https://thestandard.org.nz/if-judith-and-gerry-are-the-answer-it-must-have-been-a-desperate-question/#comment-1730381.

                      Do you stand by that, because you've had ample opportunity to correct it, but instead you've just dug deeper and deeper by trolling my subsequent comments.

                      This not about my attitude, it is about you being a recidivist offender at joining a discussion part way through and stamping your feet like a child. Get over yourself.

                      [I take that as #2; you couldn’t even give a straight answer to a simple question, again 🙁

                      FYI, if I’m such a problem here because I act like a child (a 3-year old) with cognitive deficiencies and like an arse who needs to get over themselves, Lprent would have kicked my sorry arse many times and booted me off the site, as has happened to other Authors/Moderators in the past. That day might come and if I act like an arse, I will deserve it too.

                      Ok, have it your way, you’re obviously unwilling to change your ways here, think that you can continue wasting our time, believe you can play by your own rules and do whatever you like and not do what you don’t like here. Repent for 10 days – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []

                      See my Moderation note @ 3:20 PM.

  12. Tiger Mountain 12

    Ok, Todd Muller’s mental meltdown was accorded due respect by political pundits yesterday.

    But from today, one of the nastiest, “pay it back double” Nats every utterance is about to get saturation media coverage. PM Jacinda is likely not going to take her on, and fair enough given her political style. But–the rest of us do need to robustly challenge NZ’s Thatcher Mini-me.

    • Anne 12.1

      NZ’s Thatcher Mini-me.

      More like a reincarnation of Muldoon in female form. She even has the sly lopsided smile albeit a little less obvious.

      • Treetop 12.1.1

        Yes I saw Muldoon in Collins today in the female form even though she is not the PM.

        Could you imagine Collins if she was the PM?

        I had to laugh when she said on RNZ that it was a late night and something about a drink.

        Recall Muldoon calling a snap election when he was tanked up. Yesterday was Bastille day in France.

  13. Tricledrown 13

    The Exorcist

  14. RedLogix 14

    It's all on. National have copied Labour's winning strategy almost perfectly and now have a woman leader who can take it to Ardern without the undertow of sexism holding her back. It has all been timed perfectly; if this was Collins plan all along then she's executed it with precision.

    And Collins has the self-confidence and ruthlessness to impose her will on the National caucus; watch them pivot within hours to fall in behind her.

    Anything can of course happen between now and the election, but one thing I'm certain of is that underestimating National at this point is entirely unwarranted.

    • swordfish 14.1


      It’s all on. National have copied Labour’s winning strategy almost perfectly … It has all been timed perfectly; if this was Collins plan all along then she’s executed it with precision.

      I mean, by rights, people should be paying me for this … I should, at the very least, be getting a substantial wardrobe allowance.

    • observer 14.2

      Totally agree about not underestimating National (I thought that even when the polls said Labour would get about 121 MPs).

      But "National have copied Labour's winning strategy almost perfectly" is not true at all. Ardern had a united caucus who all supported both her predecessor and her. And she wasn't there to pander to the base, quite the opposite.

      • RedLogix 14.2.1

        Yes, the two parties are not the same, the history is not the same, but given what Collins had to work with, and from the perspective of the electorate … which is what counts …. the strategy is identical. It's only us political tragics who care about parsing internal nuances about 'caucus unity'.

        But both Ardern and Collins inherited unhappy parties, Labour united because Ardern is such an effective communicator, National will get it's act together because Collins will sack the arse of anyone who doesn't.

        • observer

          No. Labour were already united. Ardern did not heal splits. The leader was not white-anted. The difference is really basic, you can't just wave it away.

          If you don't grasp this yet, the leaks in the coming days will help you. Woodhouse's sacking (today) will probably help Collins, that's fair enough. But the continuing aftermath will not.

          • RedLogix

            Yeah yeah, I'm not pretending everything was exactly the same … but from the electorate's perspective the differences you're highlighting may not be all that relevant.

            Right now Collins is in the enviable position of being able to sack anyone she doesn't like with very little downside. After all under Muller the caucus faced a massive reduction anyway, so Collins can ruthlessly select for her loyalists with almost complete impunity, it will be her way or the highway.

            It doesn't really matter that National has been divided and shambolic up to this point, Collins has the opportunity impose the necessary party discipline.

            • Incognito

              I like your framing, because that’s what it is, and it reminds me of the Smiling Assassin, all form but no substance. National is not a party waiting to govern NZ, it is party waiting to rule NZ. Hence the slogan “take back our country”.

        • Patricia Bremner

          No RedLogix, Andrew Little won the original leadership election Labour held. He worked hard getting all the Labour factions to support the same goals.

          When Ardern became his Deputy, he realised how quick resiliant and informed she was, and when he stood down he nominated her and the caucus backed that.

          Andrew Little was honorable, even though disappointed he was not bound to lead, and Jacinda Ardern put him in the top group, giving him roles of high trust.

          Labour was not in an unhappy place, having found their social licence again.

          Both Andrew and Jacinda have worked to improve others lives, while Judith Collins has taken advantage of her position, and Gerry Brownlie is a bully.

          To compare the change over as the same is laughable. Not at all similar.

    • Bearded Git 14.3

      I don't think this was Collins plan all along….she was just lucky that Muller was useless …sorry had mental issues (yeah right) causing the leadership to fall in her lap.

      It's called being in the right place at the right time. But Brownlee as deputy is an own goal….not that people notice deputy leaders much.

      Adams and Kaye must be seething.

      • RedLogix 14.3.1

        It's called being in the right place at the right time

        That usually happens as a result of good planning. wink

        There are two possibilities here; one is that JC has just gotten lucky. Or she's worked carefully and precisely with various actors, Hooton in particular, to get the outcome she wanted, at exactly the moment she wanted.

        None of us are privvy to the quiet conversations that must have been going on, but the truth probably lies closer to the latter position than the former.

      • Anne 14.3.2

        Ditto @ Bearded Git

  15. Dennis Frank 15

    Yeah, I agree Woodhouse is likely to be a goner. JC said she's gonna ask him for the facts, so he can only escape by fudging it, and I doubt he can outwit her on that basis! If he admits to lying to Todd, she knows she can't trust him to even get the basics right.

    The conversation between Tova & Garner a few minutes ago produced good points from both. Ben Thomas & Liam Hehir talking to John Campbell likewise.

    JC does seem to have undergone a genuine transformation. She said this morning she was both liberal and conservative – well, you could say the same for Todd, but she also said the time was right. Timing is everything in politics. It's not so much that she made the point, but that viewers could sense her doubt-free confidence. Her dynamism & fluency in her media situations this morning put her a level above even the press conference last night, where her surety was evident. She's a different person.

    Scoffers will disagree, and I have to concede that time will tell on this. Perceptions endure if reality pans out to reinforce them. Ben Thomas: "She's the apex predator in New Zealand politics." I always saw her as mere pretender but I'm open to the possibility now that she could snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. It depends how centrists see her and that hinges on the question of authenticity. Next poll will indicate how realistic that scenario is.

    • I Feel Love 15.1

      Yeah, first move dump Woodhouse, she'll reinforce the "I'm tough" look, the Nat team and supporters will back her wholeheartedly because of her confidence. She will say some barmy things which will rile us types who comment on blogs, the media will love her because she knows sound bites & insider gossip, she will befuddle Adern in a Trunp/Hilary way with coming from unorthodox angles as attack (like the "what's wrong with being white?"). At Least there's a battle on, a contrast, Labour will have to bring their A+++ game. All I hope is DP is gone, but with Gerry, Hooton and Collins, it's in their DNA.

      • RedLogix 15.1.1

        Watch to see what happens to Hooton, he's the consummate political operator.

        If he get's pushed out and marginalised, or quietly reassigned to some new position of influence as his reward, will inform us a lot about just how planned all this was.

        At Least there’s a battle on, a contrast, Labour will have to bring their A+++ game.

        Yes. The Labour caucus meeting should be a sobering experience for them all. The pandemic response has consumed everything this year, and it’s left them exposed on a number of other fronts.

    • Bearded Git 15.2

      "JC does seem to have undergone a genuine transformation".

      Bollocks. Spots and leopards comes to mind.

  16. Andre 16

    What's the state of play between Judthulhu and Winnie?

    My impression is there's no love lost, but they've managed to keep it at a political level rather than personal. But I really haven't paid much attention so could be way off base.

  17. Craig H 17

    I think the desperate question was "who can save the most furniture".

  18. This will be the dirtiest, nastiest, hatefilled campaign ever. They will lie and lie and lie their way into power and when they get there the poor people of NZ, and especially us in South Auckland will just get totally screwed. THere has never been a National Government that has cared for the ordinary person, they are all for themselves and their mates in big business. Look for all benefits to be cut

    • James 18.1

      When you say lie and then screw over I assume you are talking about labour.

      remember their key election promises made by jacinda – kiwibuild and light rail.

      yep. All lies and bullshit.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 18.1.1

        What a peculiar assumption James; you seem more tone deaf than usual this morning, but you'd never lie, right?

        Christopher Randal is on the money IMHO: “the dirtiest, nastiest, hatefilled campaign ever“, and your comment bears this out – you really can’t help yourself.

      • Just Is 18.1.2

        James, your right, Kiwi Build was a complete failure.

        Darned Coalition Govt only managed to build twice as many new homes in under 3years than Nayional did in a decade, it's a complete failure, I say, a complete failure..

        And for light rail, well how hopeless is that, Coalition Govt invested 10 times the amount of money National had into it to get the city moving again. What a terrible waste of money.

        Your right James, its all bullshit and lies….

  19. UncookedSelachimorpha 19

    Hope they don't have time to redo the billboards. Just paste crusher's face onto Muller's body, look great above a 'strong and stable leadership' slogan. OK, might look a bit weird on ones with Todd and Judith to start with.

    • Cinny 19.1

      Heeehehehe you just reminded me of something, in the 2014 election, in Motueka some clever person cut out maureen pugh and john key's faces and switched them over on to the opposite bodies.

      Not that I endorse hoarding vandalism, but it was rather clever 🙂

  20. Just Is 20

    The only certain thing from this is National will have no new policies going into the election and the strategy will be to simply discredit the Govt with outrageous claims of mismanagement and inuando.

    Both Collins and Brownlee come with significant history, none of it positive.

    The electorate will ultimately decide but I predict the 27% support may not budge too much

    • Bearded Git 20.1

      Destroy the RMA and all of its environmental protection while (wrongly) blaming it for high house prices seems to be Collins key policy according to the Nine to Noon interview she just did.

      For that reason alone she must be kept well away from the treasury benches.

      • Just Is 20.1.1

        Collins and Brownlee are hasbeens, both have signicant form, both have promoted policies that have eventuated into shambolic disasters.

        Personally I think they'll limp into the election, I doubt wether they'll be able to restore the polls in the roaring forties, but may lift it from the current 27%

  21. ianmac 21

    Dirty Tricks and Collins. Nicky corrects the belief propagated by media that Collins was cleared of matters raised in "Dirty Tricks." Not so. Smoke and mirrors?

    Here is a reference to the new email and exoneration. Judith Collins was soon saying that she had been cleared of all allegations in the book Dirty Politics. But neither the new email nor anything about a smear campaign against the SFO head appear in the Dirty Politics book.

    Anyone can check the chapter about Collins in Dirty Politics. It shows a pettiness and meanness, as she sent snippets of gossip and dirt to Cameron Slater and helped him to attack people on his blog — including details of a public servant who was then strongly attacked on Slater’s blog, including receiving death threats.


  22. Devo 22

    Judith talking to Catherine Ryan on Nine to Noon right now. Pitching for a lot less debt (aka austerity), a lot less regulations (cut the red tape!), and not ruling out privatisation. Taking the Nats back to 2005 it seems.

    • mac1 22.1

      Yes, there was an interesting part where Collins praised our public health system fulsomely, and then, as an afterthought, included private health.

      The afterthought certainly indicated that Collins has private ownership in her thinking, and needing mentioning as such; also, it might mean she is obliquely telegraphing a new move towards privatisation in health and in housing.

      She was short with the truth when asked whether National had sold housing. Her ploy was not to do as Willis, her colleague, did and apologise for the overall sale of state housing under National, but rather say that National did both build and sell houses. She could not say that the overall outcome was that housing stock numbers dropped.

      • ianmac 22.1.1

        And yet she is praised for her attacks on Kiwibuild. Hypocritical?

        • mac1

          Who would deal with an owner of a business in this situation? A prospective buyer asks "How's your business doing?" The owner replies that she had made both profits and losses but doesn't reveal that losses outnumbered gains?

  23. swordfish 23

    In February 2019 – a year after Bridges took over – a Newshub Reid Research Poll asked:

    Who should lead the National Party ?

    (1) All Respondents

    Collins 17.3%
    Bridges 13.4%
    Bennett 6.2%
    Adams 4.0%
    Mitchell 1.5%
    Other 8.0%
    Don’t Know / Don’t Care 49.9%

    (2) Intending National Voters only

    Collins 27.1%
    Bridges 19.6%


  24. Ad 24

    A Collins-Brownlee combination will get National back to around 35%.

    Act at 5% + electoral seat will be a much stronger presence. Act have had their strongest showing in a decade this term and the publicity around their euthenasia referendum is just perfectly timed. So I see Act good for 7%.

    I'm really looking forward to the Ardern V Collins head to head debates. There's a good chance the smile gets wiped off one of them.

    This collected result will at least make for a decent Opposition .

    • Peter 24.1

      "I'm really looking forward to the Ardern V Collins head to head debates. There's a good chance the smile gets wiped off one of them."

      And therein lies the sad reality. The leaders of our two biggest political parties are going one-on-one in a sporting contest. Whose blood and much will be spilt?

      It's not about the shape of the country, what we want our country to be, it's about smiles getting wiped off faces. That's entertainment folks!

  25. ianmac 25

    Funny that the "strong" National team relies on such old leaders.

    No young clever young enthusiasts left in the party? How sad.

    • Draco T Bastard 25.1

      No young clever young enthusiasts left in the party?

      They're conservatives – they're 'old' by 20.

      Really, the whole point of conservatives is holding on to what's passed.

  26. mauī 26

    Regarding economic policy, in her press conference last night she spoke of reducing taxes and reducing government spending.

    The economy has enough troubles as it is and they want to take more oxygen out of it by penny pinching and throwing out some loose change to the middle class kids. How completely idiotic.

    • Just Is 26.1

      Both policies would take them directly into recession, that's their economic plan then is it

      • Stuart Munro 26.1.1

        Recessions are a very profitable time to be rich – distressed assets up for grabs all over the show.

    • Draco T Bastard 26.2

      Destroying the economy by cutting government spending is what National always does.

  27. Byd0nz 27

    Had to chortel, sort of laugh, when I heard Bolger say to the 'old' new leadership to stay away from 'nasty politics' duh spots on leopards.

  28. Chris 28

    "The other is that only National can properly look after the economy. Of course this has been disproved time and time again."

    That's the truth but it's not the prevailing view. This has always been a big problem for Laboiur

    • Just Is 28.1

      Its only a perception produced by a party that statistically is the worst economic managers in NZs political history

      They'd love everyone to believe they're better, most Kiwis haven't seen the evidence.

      • Chris 28.1.1

        Yes, but that's the problem.

      • Draco T Bastard 28.1.2

        most Kiwis haven't seen the evidence.

        That's because the evidence isn't reported as the MSM shareholders want a National government. They benefit from the cut in taxes even when it crashes the economy and then the government will have to spend up big to pull us out of the recession and they'll benefit from that as well.

        • Just Is

          Only through massive borrowing, wait a minute, that's what Key did in 2011, but it was only $120B, and $65B when they were voted out.

      • Gabby 28.1.3

        However, they're the best liars, and lots of people like being lied to.

  29. Muttonbird 29

    New National Party leader Judith Collins: National won't 'repeat any mistakes'

    – RNZ

    They'll just make a whole lot of new ones.

    • Just Is 29.1

      Looks like they've already failed that statement by electing in Collins and Brownlee

    • Chris 29.2

      She says no more dirty politics but her language is still divisive. "I am hoping that the National Party can crush the other lot"; We need to “…take back our country from the current lot.” Her personality disorder still shines through. Quite trumplike.

    • I Feel Love 29.3

      and any mistakes they make, won't be put in writing or use emails, mistakes from now on will be using burner phones.

  30. mosa 30

    In recent days an incorrect story has been repeated in the news about how Judith Collins had to resign after the book Dirty Politics was published but was later exonerated and returned to Cabinet. In the interests of accuracy, it is worth correcting this misunderstanding.


    • ianmac 30.1

      Snap mosa at 21. That issue should be fully aired as it deals with a Leader's credibility.

  31. Dennis Frank 31

    Unafraid to take on the top dog, even when it's her own leader. https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/15-07-2020/judith-collins-is-not-what-you-think-she-is/

    When a hospitality worker went public over then prime minister John Key’s ponytail-pulling, other National MPs, including the then minister of women’s affairs Louise Upston shamefully repeated a line that it was mere “horseplay”. Collins, from the backbench, called her own prime minister’s actions to account, lecturing him publicly on his judgment.

    In a follow up interview she said that in her own waitressing days she had “poured coffee down someone’s lap when I’ve felt they needed to be controlled a little bit better”.

    And Ben Thomas alerts us to what could make her an effective leader; presenting the chameleon thesis.

    It is easy to write Collins off as the Crusher caricature, a law-and-order hardliner. But Collins is chameleonic – able to take on whatever role is required of her politically and play it to perfection, switching through her emotional range at will.

    We know from the theory of evolution that adaption is the key survival skill. In politics this means showing a side of your nature that suits the circumstances best.

    • Wensleydale 31.1

      Awesome. Just what the country needs. Some sort of creepy alien parasite running the National Party. Still… it wouldn't be the first time.

      • Muttonbird 31.1.1

        This. Centrists of course gag for this 'chameleonic' ability to deceive both the right and the left with insincerity. They loooove it!

        For instance, JuCo has said the border should stay closed, no bubbles, etc. So she’s completely rowed against all right wing thought about protecting the economy over health. She has done this for political expedience, not because she believes it.

        Make no mistake, Kiwis, if National become the government, COVID-19 will enter the country within weeks.

        • Chris

          "Make no mistake, Kiwis, if National become the government, COVID-19 will enter the country within weeks."

          I hope someone from Labour trots this out during the campaign. Was sickening to see Collins blame Ardern for being a month late with lockdown.

  32. Observer Tokoroa 32

    the ever young Judith

    She likes to be the rootin, tootin, packin Papakura White Girl.

    No class. None. Just the right thing for National Dames ? ahem

  33. Andre 33

    Make Oravida Great Again!

  34. UncookedSelachimorpha 34

    The Kiwiblog crowd seem pleased with JC – but they are true believers who Swordfish above points out already ‘prefer’ JC.

    Pretty gross site – complete with links to pictures of JC in the 70’s and discussion of how hot she was / is. How many women post on there – doesn’t feel like many when you read it.

    • RedBaronCV 34.1

      Yeah – Jude could do a wardrobe upgrade to please em' – something in a black leather biking style might do.

      She does appeal to the Maggie Thatcher type bloke. Boris & Dom in one.

      • Incognito 34.1.1

        Black leather is already taken by the Bishop. Hmmm, the Queen and the Bishop …

  35. Morrissey 35


    (1) He can be funny, though not always on purpose.

    (1) He’s an obnoxious bully, notoriously throwing an elderly protestor down the stairs on one occasion and barging past airport security on another.

    (2) He’s unpopular with women.

    (3) He’s not too bright: he failed his U.E. not once but TWICE, and he thinks it’s funny to bawl out in parliament: “Who IS this Edmund Burke? Who IS this Edmund Burke?”

    (4) He, along with the rest of Key’s regime, turned the Christchurch disaster into a fiasco.

  36. Mickey, the question was "Who has the best seats lifeboats?"

  37. RedBaronCV 37

    I will be interested to see if the MSM does the career retrospective and highlights on those yester people Jude & Gerry. Complete with all the dodgy stuff they did. I'm sure Nicky Hager for a fee would allow selected bits of his book to be reprinted. If the MSM doesn't do this reminder then they would be very lax. Jude actually reminds me of Piggy Muldoon.

    Plus women don't like Judith – if there were lots of supportive emails from women sent to the media – bet somebody organised that to give the impression that they do.

  38. Sabine 38

    we need Puckish. Only he can appropriatly share the joy of the National Party members.

    Bring back Puckish, and if only for a day!

    National Party truly a Party without ideas and mates.

    • Wensleydale 38.1

      He's probably out getting horrendously drunk in celebration now his wildest and most perverse fantasies have been realised.

  39. dv 39

    See Colins want to take NZ back.

    My question is how far?

  40. rod 40

    Back to future with Jude and Gerry.

  41. observer 41

    When Helen Clark pops up in the media nowadays (as in her new WHO role) there's always a chorus on the Right of "oh, still sticking her oar in, move on, Helen is ancient history."

    Fun fact: when National's exciting new deputy leader entered Parliament, Clark was in opposition, and still 3 years away from becoming PM.

    The current PM was 16 years old.

  42. Isn't her husband Chinese rather than Samoan though?

    At least I thought he was. It really doesn’t matter who shes married to, rather a technological point I’m inquiring into, that’s all.

    And the reason is, I’m wondering if her husband would maintain Chinese mainland trade links vital to some Nats ‘viable’ vested interest business deals is all.

    • Gabby 42.1

      It may depend on current requirements.

    • Incognito 42.2

      Her husband is irrelevant unless he’s on National’s front bench. Do they have a Siberian Husky? Plenty of dead cats though; peoples’ attention is so easily diverted it scares me.

  43. ianmac 43

    Sarah Dowie is leaving politics. Is that 18 National MPs deserting?

    • ScottGN 43.1

      She announced that a while ago so I think she’s already counted in the 16 or so that we already know about.

  44. feijoa 44

    So…we have Dolores Umbridge ( a very evil witch from Harry Potter if that doesn't mean anything.) It's the false smile that reminds me of her

    • Stuart Munro 44.1

      Collins is certainly a piece of work, but I'm not sure the Umbridge mould fits. Umbridge was a Blairite – a cruel gaslighter pretending to expertise and virtue in a manner familiar to those of us subject to the oppressive whims of a neoliberal civil service.

      There is less pretense of virtue with Collins – she has embraced the role of Medea.

  45. Observer Tokoroa 45

    Yes Andre

    Judith's things should be respected. Oradiva being a very great thing.

    But I think we should realise that some active persons like Judith, do not always have time to obey Rules. So they just plough on. (Paula did that often. A National trait).

    As a result, they needed eventually to acquire help from the very dark back rooms, in the National Party snake house. Well known to Judith and her friends.

    Ugly periods in Judith's wayward way of caring for New Zealand do not need to be repeated.

    And PapaKura is far Greater than Judith Collins.

  46. ianmac 46

    No Right Turn doesn't mince words:

    By choosing her as leader, the National Party has basicly said "this is what we stand for": cruelty, viciousness, and sleaze.


    • I Feel Love 46.1

      The angle I'm reading on Twitter is Adern is effective, but soft, and safe, whereas Collins will take Covid head on & beat it, a fearless, "wartime PM". This is over in the very excitable RW land at #nzpol.

      • Wensleydale 46.1.1

        They know it's a virus, right? It's not like Collins can take it out into the car park and give it a good kicking.

  47. Robert Guyton 47

    "Pre-Covid mentality.

    Bryan Bruce says:

    “It’s pretty obvious that the National Party is not the party of big taxes . We are the party of sensible spending ,we’re a party of infrastructure ,we’re a party that believes in investing .We’re not stupid with money because we always know that somebody has to pay it back and the last thing that we want is to leave a legacy for the next two generations to pay back on. These are the sorts of views that we are taking into this and that’s where we are always better than the other people because we know that we have to pay it back.”


    I’ll have more to say about the economic policies of all the political parties in the coming days but for now I offer just a quick reaction.

    That statement by National’s new leader reflects a pre-covid mentality. It reveals a mindset that pretends the economic world has not dramatically changed , that we are not facing a major recession which may become a deep depression."

    • ianmac 47.1

      Yes a simplistic old hat approach and another form of Austerity.

      What National will do is sell the apparent tens of thousand of dollars of debt owed by every person in the country, and claim the need to employ the sensible Party reduce the debt and increase business success by some miraculous process held in secret by people like Goldsmith.

      Didn't Muldoon use the same fear illustrated with dramatic graphs?

    • Muttonbird 47.2

      It's simple for the Labour Party. This is the message:

      Want to keep NZ Covid free? Party vote Labour.

  48. Anker 48


    tom Sainsbury quick off the mark.

    collins will have to be very careful. Saying things like she’s not going to put up with jacindas nonsense. A lot of women won’t like that at all

    • Wensleydale 48.1

      Yeah… all that saving the country from a virulent contagion currently ravaging half the planet, while doing her best to take care of workers and ensure the economy doesn't throw itself off a building. Who needs that load of old nonsense?

      National – we have some ideas… we just don't know what they are yet.

    • Muttonbird 48.2

      Yep. Already in 24 hours she's started screwing up.

  49. Austringer 49

    Prime Minister, the Tango begins, as the media commentators, we don!t vote we ARE SECULAR in our political views, really, is the picador who pocked the bull secular.
    Debate, is going to be the swinger Prime Minister, age concern wisdom, against youths, vigour and impulse this will be flashed up fancy by the farm fence and usual old monied rort.

    Prime Minister, your first tele debate with their appointed chancer will be your Oxford debate, keep your cool, and Prime Minister, you are.

  50. Robert Guyton 50

    Collins on Woodhouse:

    "She said that she had spoken with Woodhouse about the leak, and that he had made a mistake, but she still had confidence in him. “He's a top performer,” she said."

    Okay then.

    • I Feel Love 50.1

      Brilliant, nothing has changed, except the wallpaper, and maybe the safe.

    • Wensleydale 50.2

      Well, she's not entirely wrong. He IS a performer. His recent interviews have been most entertaining.

  51. Brian Tregaskin 51

    "Collins’s saying things like she’s not going to put up with Jacindas nonsense. "

    Wow we are shaking in our boots:) Bring it on Judith –does your team really think we will fall for the bait?

    —–Judithmania has not happened today , even Tova is saying on TV3 6.00pm News leaks have headed her way from a few Nats.

    Side Note Woodhouse has a got a new portifollio he is delighted with –slap on the wrist ,sideways move I predicted from Judith (Granny State) Collins

  52. Brian Tregaskin 52

    And here it is


    Newshub has been leaked details of the National Party leadership caucus meeting.

    The details came from National MPs who are still leaking to Newshub.

    One National MP reflected on the caucus meeting saying, "It was a bit rich getting a lecture in loyalty and unity when those two [Collins and Brownlee] leaked so much in the past".

    Another said, "A lot of dead rats had to be swallowed…"

    "Judith has been disloyal to everyone but there was so much fear in caucus that we'd lose worse than 2002."

  53. Climaction 53

    This post is undermined by the prime ministers immature inability to focus on two things at once, running a country and winning an election.

    but let the personal smears against Judith begin, I never held high hopes for a different type of politics with this government and now there is a strong woman in charge I’m sad that I was right

    • observer 53.1

      Give an example of a personal smear against Judith, please.

      Or if you prefer, any smears against Bridges or Muller, made by Ardern or any of her team.

      • Climaction 53.1.1

        Collins did engage in some good old race baiting by again asking if there was something wrong with being white and then pivoting by saying her husband is Samoan. I can recall Don Brash doing and saying something similar.

        • observer

          Don't you remember "my wife's from Singapore"? Ergo, not racist. Ergo, Orewa and Iwi/Kiwi were fine.

          Who introduced the subject of Don's wife?

          Who introduced the subject of Judith's husband? Did Judith smear herself?

        • Incognito

          Why don’t you answer the question and give an example of smears orchestrated by this Government against Collins? Is it because there aren’t any and you were making up shit again?

    • Muttonbird 53.2

      This post is undermined by the prime ministers immature inability to focus on two things at once, running a country and winning an election.

      WTF? You just read the Henry Cooke article today and thought you'd run with it.

      Judith Collins deserves all the smears she gets.

  54. Brian Tregaskin 54

    Id put money on by this this time next week more shocking news will be out re MOH Privacy breach –the Nats only hope of setting the Election narrative is for this to go away —not going to happen.

    the Nats are a like a boxer with a cut eyebrow (MOH Privacy leak) in the early rounds, that weakness will got at until they hit the canvas

    you heard it first here baby !

  55. Punchin judy is so apt…The natzis never got mmp (how long ago was that?)

    The natzis have always had a self appointed "born to rule" attitude.

    They are convinced they "won" the last election. The only problem being too many voters voted for too many other parties.

    Reality bites.

    Voters have different values to national party values?

    How could that be.

    The smugness of the rich list backers of the natz is astounding.

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