I’m a Muslim, an Immigrant and I voted Trump

Written By: - Date published: 12:54 pm, November 14th, 2016 - 234 comments
Categories: afghanistan, class war, defence, economy, Globalisation, im/migration, International, iraq, poverty, Syria, war - Tags:

On Saturday the NZ Herald website published a piece by Asra Q. Nomani who is a former Wall Street Journal reporter, veteran journalist and a co-founder of the pro-peace Muslim Reform Movement.

Note, Nomani is not reluctant in her support of Trump, despite openly disagreeing with some of his policies and behaviours.

In her piece she explains why she supported the Trump/Pence ticket:

I am a single mother who can’t afford health insurance under Obamacare. The president’s mortgage-loan modification program, “HOPE NOW,” didn’t help me. Tuesday, I drove into Virginia from my hometown of Morgantown, W.Va., where I see rural America and ordinary Americans, like me, still struggling to make ends meet, after eight years of the Obama administration.

Finally, as a liberal Muslim who has experienced, first-hand, Islamic extremism in this world, I have been opposed to the decision by President Obama and the Democratic Party to tap dance around the “Islam” in Islamic State.

Of course, Trump’s rhetoric has been far more than indelicate and folks can have policy differences with his recommendations, but, to me, it has been exaggerated and demonized by the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, their media channels, such as Al Jazeera, and their proxies in the West, in a convenient distraction from the issue that most worries me as a human being on this earth: extremist Islam of the kind that has spilled blood from the hallways of the Taj Mahal hotel in Mumbai to the dance floor of the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Fla.

In an interview with Fox News she clarified her views further (these are a quick conveyance of her comments from the embedded video, not a transcript).

The thing I could not take any more as a liberal was the dehumanising of those who dared support Trump supporters by liberals, which is ultimately a betrayal of those liberal values…

For the last 8 years there has been a liberal honour brigade who has wanted to silence anyone with a dissenting opinion using trash talk about bigots, racists and islamaphobics. Saudi Arabia and Qatar prefer this then talk about the extremism that they export to the world.

I know that Donald Trump is not islamaphobic, he’s not a racist, he’s not a bigot. He’s indelicate and insensitive at times. His proposals are tough but they reflect a reality of concern that people have about an issue which is killing people from Orlando to Paris.

This is Nomani’s interview with Fox:

When asked about what she would say to protestors who are currently overcome with fear about Donald Trump she echoed advice given by Oprah Winfrey recently on just this issue, and which Nomani says she gave to her son:

Breathe deeply, walk, and let it flow through your body, allowing it to emerge as a transcendent overcoming of fear; fear is what we make it and we can overcome it with intention and love.

Nomani ends her interview with the Fox News anchor with a smile and a joke: “little did you know you would be fans of Oprah, but here you are today.”

This is the Oprah interview referred to by Nomani (and which Oprah was subsequently attacked for). Oprah said that Trump’s meeting with Obama gave her hope for the nation and that everybody can take a deep breath from it.

 

234 comments on “I’m a Muslim, an Immigrant and I voted Trump ”

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  1. Pasupial 1
    14 November 2016 at 1:36 pm

    Congratulations, CV, you’ve been able to unearth one Muslim-American who admits to voting for Trump. While I doubt she was the only one whose issues with the Democrats overwhelmed their qualms about Trump, I think that the majority would have had a different position.

    More hate crimes were recorded against Muslims in 2015 than in any year since 9/11. Incendiary election rhetoric, coupled with the rising sentiments of white nationalism and nativist bigotry it encouraged, ensured that 2016 would trend similarly.

    But that was all before 11/9 happened. If Trump’s candidacy alone dehumanized Muslims, spawned suspicion and amplified calls for their exclusion, what will his presidency bring? As New Yorker editor David Remnick writes, “Trump was not elected on a platform of decency, fairness, moderation, compromise, and the rule of law; he was elected, in the main, on a platform of resentment.”

    http://www.salon.com/2016/11/13/muslim-in-america-under-president-trump-we-will-endure-this/

    • Colonial Viper 1.1
      14 November 2016 at 2:55 pm

      More hate crimes were recorded against Muslims in 2015 than in any year since 9/11.

      You left out the thousands of innocent Muslims killed by Bush and by Obama.

      • Pasupial 1.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 6:29 pm

        That is a better point against Clinton than any in the original post recycling Nomani’s statements. However, I am unconvinced that Trump will lift a finger to lessen the slaughter in the; Middle East, Yemen, and Afghanistan. As you point out it was Bush; a Republican, who started the bomb rolling there.

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1
          14 November 2016 at 6:41 pm

          This is a wait and see. The two key issues to look out for is Syria-Russia, and Iran.

          On the Syria-Russia front I think Trump will settle this quickly to restore Syria’s security sovereignty (that means the end of ISIS and al-Nusra; it might also mean an agreement for Assad to move on from his position of dictator).

          On the Iran front I am much more nervous as to what he will do; his languaging has been quite belligerent towards Iran – which he calls “the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world.”

          Trump’s approach to Yemen is going to say a lot about the US new relations with Saudi Arabia. Trump thinks the Saudis are a regressive, backward, corrupt state. So wait and see.

      • North 1.1.2
        14 November 2016 at 9:15 pm

        The point Pasupial is making, is this –
        “What did you just say CV?……1 such Muslim Immigrant Trump person?…….there’re obviously a significant number more, true, but that doesn’t mean the Latino millions and millions more (I think?)………weren’t entitled (as human beings) to feel abuse, demonisation, to suffer a sense of impending threat? To see it as 1 man turning people on them.

        Trump did that, not them. Of course they’d care about the abuse of their fellows…….about the studied demonisation etc etc etc. Trump did that, not them. To dismiss the humanity here preferring to tell of some cock-up from the past, is unthinking and unkind.

        It’s for their children these people voted as they did CV. They were entitled to. Constitutionally and morally. Don’t pick one or two out of the box and have them mean all. That’s Paula Bennet Bennies’ talk.

  2. Stephanie Rodgers 2
    14 November 2016 at 1:41 pm

    Another post where the clear subtext is “look, I found a Muslim woman who agrees with me so all of you have to shut up now”.

    This isn’t how inclusive politics works, guys. You don’t just collect all the different oppressions people experience onto a bingo board to out-bid the opposition (a woman! A Muslim! A single mother! Trifecta!)

    Anyone can do it. Like, here’s an alternative view, from the Muslim father of a US army captain who was killed in Iraq:

    Khizr Khan is calling on Donald Trump to quell the concerns of Americans who fear for their safety following Trump’s victory on Tuesday.

    “It is his obligation to address the concerns of all Americans, not only those who have voted for him,” the Gold Star father said in an interview on “All In With Chris Hayes” on Friday night.

    …

    Khan blamed continued protests across America on Trump making no attempt to help unite the country in the days since the election.

    “I want to remind Mr. Trump that you have not gotten the majority of popular vote,” Khan said. “These folks are scared because of his statements and his policies, and he has not extended a hand of courtesy … or affection.”

    Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/khizr-khan-calls-donald-trump-unite-americans-after-election-n682871

    • Zorr 2.1
      14 November 2016 at 2:51 pm

      He was probably rent-a-crowd… *edit: sarc tag got removed*

      At what point did The Standard become a place where Fox News content was included as anything beyond an example of right-wing propoganda?

      I get that it is a writing collective but currently these kinds of posts are completely undermining the validity of the site as a voice of the left. Can we get some copy-pasta Breitbart in here next just to round out the alt-right drivel Bingo board here?

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 2:57 pm

        The Democrats just got crushed in the Presidential election, in the Congressional elections, in the Senatorial elections, and conservatives are about to gain control of the Supreme Court.

        Listen and learn and maybe “the left” can avoid further irrelevancy.

        • Bill 2.1.1.1
          14 November 2016 at 3:13 pm

          Listen to what CV?

          A woman with a fairly muddled political perspective decrying how she couldn’t ‘get ahead’ under an Obama admin saying that’s why she voted in a Trump admin that will run on very hard right economics? Economics that will fuck her up very badly?

          And again. Define this “the left” you speak of. The Democrat’s are not “the left. The people on the streets in various US cities are not “the left”. I am not “the left”. Unions are not “the left”. Civil rights groups are not “the left”.

          But for you…I dunno…what’s this assimilated Borg entity (or whatever the fck it is) that you think of as “the left”? Or are you now at the stage where you’re happy to throw thoughtless and meaningless phrases at your own words just so that you get to have sentences written down?

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 3:28 pm

            Have had enough with your clever word games.

            If you don’t think “the Left” exists as a literal entity/grouping/collective/movement/politics, which can be referred to in ordinary human language just say so.

            • Bill 2.1.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 3:42 pm

              It’s not word games.

              Are you saying that unions ought to listen or become irrelevant? Are you saying the anarchist community, the feminist community, the indigenous communities, the alphabet community and all of a 1001 and more other expressions of political thought that’s generally regarded as being of ‘the left’ ought to listen to stuff coming out of Fox News or become irrelevant?

              • Colonial Viper …
                14 November 2016 at 5:32 pm

                Even if its solely from the standpoint of understanding what the “enemy” is listening to and thinking about, absolutely.

                • Bill …
                  14 November 2016 at 9:45 pm

                  I more or less know what “the enemies” are thinking. (Note the plural?) All I need to do is note how the right and left wings of the establishment suddenly march in lock step when elite interests are threatened – the Scottish independence referendum, BREXIT, the rise of Corbyn, or Sanders…

                  Beyond that, I earnestly want liberals to get out of the fucking way, because their attempts to cling to power and the status quo (whether as the Democrats in the US or as the Labour Party in the UK or NZ) is forcing people who feel fucked off, trapped and abandoned to vote for anything and anyone that promises change.

                  And when that change comes ‘courtesy’ of a grotesque populist like Trump…well, we all know what kind of a world that likely leads to, no?

            • Tim 2.1.1.1.1.2
              14 November 2016 at 8:47 pm

              CV, I want to apologise for calling you nuts previously. Seeing all these authors of the standard gang up on you (“Personally I have found these series of pro trump posts to be offensive. And my personal tolerance for freedom of speech only goes so far.”) is actually quite eye-opening.

              • Colonial Viper …
                14 November 2016 at 8:51 pm

                No probs, Tim, I didn’t take your remarks personally and I do appreciate the thought. Regrettably I’ve been stripped of my authors status now but some good has come of it.

              • mickysavage …
                14 November 2016 at 9:26 pm

                Who is ganging up?

                CV has written 14 pro Trump pieces in the past two months and despite being aware that the rest of us are becoming really annoyed with it continues to do so. And his reasoning does not add up. The rest of us are not here to provide him with a platform for his own world view. If he wants to push these ideas he can go and set his own blog up.

                • Tim …
                  14 November 2016 at 10:44 pm

                  Sorry. Maybe he should just post in the open mike like the rest of us if he is only going to focus on trumpism.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    14 November 2016 at 10:57 pm

                    We don’t know what “Trumpism” is yet. We’ll only know after the next couple of years. Fingers crossed.

                    CV has written 14 pro Trump pieces in the past two months

                    Is it that rough being confronted by a post with an alternative viewpoint 1.5 times per week?

                    Look at MSNBC and the New York Times treating Trump like a wrecked hopeless mentally distressed buffoonish joke just last week.

                    It was a pleasure to push back against this MSM BS while everyone else was soaking up the MSM narrative that Trump’s campaign was imploding, he as the candidate was imploding, his staff were out of control and Hillary was going to walk away with a huge and deserved victory.

                    Plenty of people here sucked this MSM cocktail up.

                    • McFlock …
                      14 November 2016 at 11:06 pm

                      Really?
                      We don’t know what trumpism is yet??

                      Wasn’t that what the entire fucking campaign was about?

                      His promises to tear up the constitution, bill of rights, nuclear non-proliferation treaty, and the geneva and hague conventions were all pretty clear. Either they were all his earnest desires (we’re fucked), or he just makes all this shit up as he goes along (we’re fucked again).

                      Hey, I hope he suddenly becomes a decent human being, but that’s a complete hail mary pass.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      14 November 2016 at 11:17 pm

                      He promises to tear up the constitution and the bill of rights?

                      Huh? Stop drinking the kool aid.

                      As for the Geneva and Hague conventions: Guantanamo Bay.

                    • McFlock …
                      14 November 2016 at 11:26 pm

                      Curtail freedoms of the press with libel laws.

                      Exercise presidential direction over special prosecutors and politically-motivated charges.

                      Right there are two pretty fundamental constitutional fuckages.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      14 November 2016 at 11:29 pm

                      He’s going to put constitutionalists on to the Supreme Court so you can relax.

                      Also he won’t put a grand jury on the Clintons unless they decide to keep interfering with his Presidency.

                    • McFlock …
                      14 November 2016 at 11:36 pm

                      Also he won’t put a grand jury on the Clintons unless they decide to keep interfering with his Presidency.

                      Do you even read the fascist shit you spout? His political opponents needn’t fear politically-directed prosecution if they keep out of his way?

                      Or worse, his opponents are immune from prosecution unless they get in his way.

      • mickysavage 2.1.2
        14 November 2016 at 4:23 pm

        At what point did The Standard become a place where Fox News content was included as anything beyond an example of right-wing propoganda?

        It isn’t.

        Personally I have found these series of pro trump posts to be offensive.

        And my personal tolerance for freedom of speech only goes so far.

        • weka 2.1.2.1
          14 November 2016 at 4:31 pm

          Me too. As an author and long time comments, this is just wrong on so many levels.

        • Anne 2.1.2.2
          14 November 2016 at 4:44 pm

          It seems to me that CV is systematically trying to degrade the Standard site by turning it into a hotch-potch of claim and counter claim which has the effect of confusing – or disgusting – readers to such an extent they will walk away. It is dishonest and my tolerance levels are also feeling the strain.

          • Macro 2.1.2.2.1
            14 November 2016 at 7:37 pm

            I’m beginning to feel that way myself.
            It’s all well and good to be “broad church” to allow a range of opinion – but this sort of open propaganda (and that is what it amounts to) is simply beyond the pail.
            I’m choosing not to comment on the post directly because it simply does not deserve the time nor effort.

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.2.2.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 8:48 pm

              It’s always easier and smoother to imbibe the propaganda that you prefer.

              • marty mars …
                14 November 2016 at 8:51 pm

                Exactly – your rwnj low grade shit is not what I prefer.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 November 2016 at 8:53 pm

                  I don’t understand how you continue to identify my politics as rwnj.

                  You’re so quaint and outdated.

                  • marty mars …
                    14 November 2016 at 11:15 pm

                    Because it is – as is trumps. You are very one dimensional.

                    Your labels that you like to use are like trumps – disinformation and deceit.

                    But to be fair alt-right is better so a-rwnj it is – thanks.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      14 November 2016 at 11:20 pm

                      Trump’s definitely not a right winger, if you classify right winger as neoliberal, corporatist, neocon. neither am I btw.

                    • marty mars …
                      14 November 2016 at 11:23 pm

                      Yeah nah I’m certain.

                    • In Vino …
                      14 November 2016 at 11:32 pm

                      Sorry Marty – I see no evidence of CV being a rwnj. I see you getting over-emotional in response to him. I am a Leftie, and normally agree with your lines… but as soon as it is CV, you go ballistic.
                      You should be capable of considering all points of view without blowing your foo-foo valve. I have never see CV blow his foo-foo valve.
                      Same applies to most of CVs major detractors, sad to say.

                    • PMC …
                      15 November 2016 at 12:12 am

                      I seem to remember you saying not that long ago that your complaint about CV is that he declared himself “not left”. When others tried to point out that this did not make him “right-wing” you went into a tizzy. It’s pretty ironic that it’s you calling CV one-dimensional”.

                    • marty mars …
                      15 November 2016 at 8:47 am

                      Whatever believe what you want – imo you have been sucked in by your belief that it cannot happen. I am working with facts. Just like with trump.

                      Look at the history look at the facts. If you are left then front up to the truth and stop living some illusion.

                      As for the tone argument lol wish I had a $1 everytime someone tried to force me into their little box.

                      I’ll do what I want within the site rules.

                    • Chris …
                      15 November 2016 at 12:48 pm

                      “…wish I had a $1 everytime someone tried to force me into their little box.”

                      This and calling CV “one-dimensional” would have to be the best bit of irony I’ve seen in a long time. Fuck mars, you’re fantastic, son. A gift that keeps on giving. I don’t think I can ever get enough of you. Keep going, son. You’re fucking gold.

                    • marty mars …
                      15 November 2016 at 3:19 pm

                      Oh dear Chris haven’t you already used all those lines on someone else not so long ago. Lol

                    • Chris …
                      15 November 2016 at 3:24 pm

                      Sure, but if the cap fits, son…

        • the pigman 2.1.2.3
          14 November 2016 at 8:43 pm

          Goodness me. If an author known to be a shit-stirrer presenting their predictable view is “offensive” then local/national politics would wear you down pretty quickly.

      • Scott 2.1.3
        14 November 2016 at 4:30 pm

        I thought it wasn’t a left blog… oh, you mean in reality… good point.

        I’m sick of the pussyfooting over the issue of Islam. Sure, any long term solution to their extremists needs to come from within their own religion. We need to foster sparks of Islamic moral modernization where they shine.

        But in the meantime there is a problem to face up to and sugar coating it isn’t helping. Only a tiny percentage of Muslim’s are terrorist nutters, but nearly all terrorist nutters are Muslims.

        I would not have voted for Trump, but this one issue is the one he’d get closest to attracting my vote. I don’t think he has the solutions, but at least he’s more honest about the problem.

    • Siobhan 2.2
      14 November 2016 at 3:02 pm

      That’s a bit harsh.
      Maybe you could look at it as part of a counter balance (and sure, a very small and selective one) to the mainstream media which have been feeding us a narrative of women and families, and migrants and Latinos…and whatever… turning out for ‘their’ candidate Hillary…….a scenario that actually turned out to be no more valid or accurate than Trumps bullshit.

      Trump didn’t win the election…he probably got only a few more votes than he would running against any candidate.

      Hillary lost. She was always going to lose…and the DNC should go do some massive soul searching.

      But then again, any party who goes into an election with a Chief (Donna Brazile) who’s just been FIRED by CNN is clearly la-la land. They might as well have stuck with Wasserman Schultz. Though between them you can see why the ‘Vote for a woman – any woman’ message might not have gained much traction.

      • Bill 2.2.1
        14 November 2016 at 3:31 pm

        If the post was about analysing where the Democrats went wrong (a long, boring and obvious post on irrelevancy) and not about scraping around for stuff that can be presented as pro- Trump, then maybe.

        But it was about trying to cheer-lead for Trump. And sure. he found some dubious stuff. A (more or less) ‘human interest’ piece on Fox News and some pap from Oprah.

        It’s beyond satire. Or should that be ‘beneath satire’?

        As for ‘counter balance’. The mainstream supports the status quo – the establishment – and the more or less smooth transition of power between elites. There’s nothing ‘dangerous’ coming out of those quarters. Nothing at all.

        Oh, there’s criticism of Trump and a bit of angst and what not. That’s safe enough from the perspective of our glorious ‘betters’. The important stuff these days, and where anything of note is going to emerge from, sits way outside the mainstream media’s (self imposed) narrow bounds of enquiry or analysis.

        If and when people in the US get their shit together, watch the mainstream in a fit of ‘pragmatism’ hoist its true colours and roll out Project Fear Mk…what it would it be 3?…4?…against the people who are organising and gaining traction.

        • Colonial Viper 2.2.1.1
          14 November 2016 at 3:38 pm

          But it was about trying to cheer-lead for Trump. And sure. he found some dubious stuff. A (more or less) ‘human interest’ piece on Fox News and some pap from Oprah.

          It’s beyond satire. Or should that be ‘beneath satire’?

          I’ve already given people a shit load of analysis on why the Democrats lost. Hundreds and hundreds of my comments. On why Clinton was a terrible candidate. On all the scandals which taint her and Bill. On Michael Moore predicting months ago precisely why Trump was going to win. Why Trump was superior to Clinton as a POTUS from the NZ perspective.

          But fuck all of you care. Or even pretend to care. For most Trump’s a racist, a bigot, a misogynist, a favourite of the KKK and a large portion of his supporters are exactly the fucking same as him is more than enough of an explanation.

          I personally think that’s what is “beneath satire”.

          • McFlock 2.2.1.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 4:05 pm

            I’ve already given people a shit load of analysis on why the Democrats lost.

            No, you’ve made many assertions that you pulled out of your arse, which were tangentially tested by a single binary outcome (trump win or clinton win).

            Trump is all of those things and more. That’s a fact, and that’s the man you’ve been cheerleading for over the past year or so. The fact that he was voted in doesn’t suddenly mean he’s an empathetic, sensitive puppy who accepts people of all cultures and doesn’t have sexual assault and fraud complaints pending. It just makes the entire situation more absurd.

            • Colonial Viper 2.2.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 8:08 pm

              If Giuliani gets to be AG then you may just see the evidence fully examined by a grand jury.

              The fact that he was voted in doesn’t suddenly mean he’s an empathetic, sensitive puppy

              Uh…what?

              • McFlock …
                14 November 2016 at 8:18 pm

                awww, did you not see the clauses that you disagree with in that sentence, even though they provided context that might have helped you understand it had you exercised a bit of thought?

                That’d be a first /sarc

          • Bill 2.2.1.1.2
            14 November 2016 at 4:16 pm

            Well, here’s the thing CV.

            I and many others were looking at Trump winning before all his misogynistic clap trap blew up in his face. (Lessons from independence vote, BREXIT, Corbyn, Scottish Labour….) And when the media dropped that to concentrate on Clinton’s emails, I quickly came back around to reckoning he could win again. I don’t believe that was an isolated take.

            More then enough people were and are aware that Clinton was a terrible candidate – a war monger wrapped up in layered threads of deceit.

            And, as I’ve stated often enough, Clinton’s feet, if she had won, would likely need to have been held to the fire in order that she delivered.

            I’ve also stated often enough that I don’t view the bulk of Trump voters as necessarily racist or whatever.

            Trump is a grotesque clown of a man – a nasty twisted puppet who played to deep seated, understandable and utterly legitimate, resentments with about as much honesty and integrity as we might find in a Clinton affidavit.

            And just like it would have been with Clinton, so it is with Trump. The difference is that where Clinton would have needed pushed, Trump needs to be thwarted.

            But you actually support him!?

            Is that because “since not Clinton, then…” I mean, is your political field of vision really that narrow? If not, then I can’t really see any option but to be inclined to conclude that your support for him is just a huge failure in terms of your moral compass as well as of political judgement.

            And yet here you are, supporting an utterly disgusting narcissist in his position as the most powerful politician in the world; a person who has berated and threatened fuck knows how many minorities or ‘convenient targets’ – and you accuse others, myself included, of not even pretending to care.

            Just Wow.

          • rsbandit 2.2.1.1.3
            14 November 2016 at 7:57 pm

            Good on you, Colonial Viper.

            However, you’re talking to a lot of people who disappeared down the rabbit hole years ago, never to return. The people with more open minds abandoned the left movement years ago.

            They will spit and fume at this post, and your posts – anything but acknowledge the obvious truth.

            • Bob 2.2.1.1.3.1
              15 November 2016 at 10:58 am

              “you’re talking to a lot of people who disappeared down the rabbit hole years ago, never to return. The people with more open minds abandoned the left movement years ago”
              I think you have hit the nail on the head there. Just look at the responses of Mickeysavage, Bill and Weka, someone is coming in a with a view alternative to theirs and their inevitable response is to try to shut it down (looks like CV’s author privileges have been revoked: https://thestandard.org.nz/im-a-muslim-an-immigrant-and-i-voted-trump/#comment-1261214).

              Funny how being an activist is applauded by so many here, right up until you are being an activist for an unpopular cause…

              [If you can’t handle someone critiquing your views, or CV’s, then you are on the wrong site. CV had his authoring privileges dropped to Contributor, for reasons related to the disruption of the site.

              It’s against the site rules to misrepresent authors or be misleading about what is being done with the site. I think you’ve been here long enough to understand this, I suggest you reread the Policy, and count this as a warning – weka]

              • left for dead …
                15 November 2016 at 11:47 am

                Yes commandant Weka, in relation to CV you have done this time and again yourself…no I’m not linking!
                and MS do you still not understand free speech.

                [banned 3 months for attacking authors, self-martydom etc. Yes, after all the shit that’s gone down, I’m now officially out of any kind of patience at all. I am fine with considered conversation about moderation and the current issues, but there are limits that need to be understood in the context of how much time it takes to moderate and run the site, and what makes people who do that work stay or leave. Grow some social intelligence and respect or risk a lengthy ban – weka]

                • McFlock …
                  15 November 2016 at 12:01 pm

                  Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from criticism.

                  Nor does freedom of speech mean that people are obliged to publish that speech on their blogs at their expense, be it in posts or comments.

                • mickysavage …
                  15 November 2016 at 1:54 pm

                  Sure I do. CV can say what he likes on his own site. But I am disinclined to provide another means for him to say what he does especially when I disagree with it so vehemently.

          • Kevin 2.2.1.1.4
            14 November 2016 at 8:30 pm

            All I am seeing CV is a constant reminder of why Clinton lost though the denial of reality of her supporters.

            • Colonial Viper 2.2.1.1.4.1
              14 November 2016 at 8:34 pm

              Yep. You can see it just as I can. And more importantly the fact bodes ill for the next election and the one after that and the one after that.

            • mickysavage 2.2.1.1.4.2
              15 November 2016 at 1:55 pm

              I’m not a Clinton supporter.

        • Siobhan 2.2.1.2
          14 November 2016 at 4:31 pm

          I’m sure this has already been done…but just for BILL and everyone else, including myself, despairing at the state of things…

          “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way—in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only” Dickens. A man of our times.

    • Colonial Viper 2.3
      14 November 2016 at 3:30 pm

      Stephanie Rodgers, lightning quick to marginalise legitimate minority voices which don’t meet with your political approval.

    • Well Fed Weta 2.4
      14 November 2016 at 3:34 pm

      Inclusive politics is ensuring all voices are heard, and that we are not simply left with the idea that every woman, every muslim, and every hispanic voted democrat.

    • marty mars 2.5
      14 November 2016 at 4:30 pm

      + 1 yep – this a common game so predicitable as to be cliche albeit with sinister overtones.

  3. Bill 3
    14 November 2016 at 1:45 pm

    A lovely yet naive human being.

    What’s she saying? Something like…

    If we all hold hands, then everything will be alright. And anyway, all the bad stuff won’t happen because I don’t believe it will, and anyway,if we all hold hands, everything will be alright.

    Well…no.

    Far better to turn her hand to organising and resisting. I’m picking she’ll be realising that soon enough when all the hand holding and suspension of disbelief has run its course in the face of a rancid right wing economic programme. And in the face of fairly ugly realities that are going to be popping up fairly soon unless people organise right now to make sure that the policies that would usher them in never see the light of day.

    • Colonial Viper 3.1
      14 November 2016 at 3:17 pm

      A lovely yet naive human being.

      A 30 year veteran journalist who just explained why she voted Trump is to you “a lovely yet naive human being.”

      Please note: her, and millions like her, have just decided to repudiate the entire Obama Administration.

      197 US counties who voted for Barack Obama twice, flipped over to Trump in 2016.

      So the Democrats can either start listening to what people like Nomani have to say, or they can keep dismissing them as naive and marginalising them, entrenching Democratic losses all throughout the US Gov from State through to Federal levels.

      • Bill 3.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 4:23 pm

        Well, definitely naive.

        People were willing to vote for anything but. I’m bored saying that. And I’m bored with you suggesting that Trump was or is some grand strategist. He was the wrong person in the right place at the wrong time. That’s all he was.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1
          14 November 2016 at 5:24 pm

          Should be easy for the Democrats to toss him out in 2020 then, if not before, given that he is just some undisciplined boorish buffoon.

          By the way he didn’t win. His team did. That’s how it’s done in business.

          • Bill 3.1.1.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 9:34 pm

            No CV. Not the Democrats. As far as they are liberal, they are in the way and forcing people who feel trapped and abandoned to vote for any prospect of change.

  4. Bill 4
    14 November 2016 at 2:05 pm

    At the beginning of that Fox clip the anchor claims that CAIR is the US arm of the Muslim Brotherhood. That true?

    I mean, it’s a nice quick way to delegitimise the concerns voiced by the CAIR spokesperson and prep people for the far more ‘acceptable’ mung-bean interview with Asra Q Nomani…

    Fox news would never indulge in such scurrilous and baseless bullshit though, right?

    • Well Fed Weta 4.1
      14 November 2016 at 3:46 pm

      The alleged ties between CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood have been asserted for many years, not just recently and not just by Fox. Unfortunately there does appear to be links between CAIR and terrorist groups, including the MB, going right back to CAIR’s inception. Here is a quote from CAIR’s co-founder Omar Ahmad that should give rise for concern:

      “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant….The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth.”

      • Bill 4.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 4:24 pm

        And you have a reputable link for that which you’re going to provide, yes?

        • Well Fed Weta 4.1.1.1
          14 November 2016 at 6:07 pm

          The quote is provided on literally hundreds of sources. The earliest reference I can find is http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://www.anti-cair-net.org/AhmadStateScanned.pdf&date=2011-04-21.

          • Bill 4.1.1.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 6:32 pm

            Yeah well, that link doesn’t provide a quote. It provides an interpretation or second hand account of parts of what someone supposedly said. As a quote it doesn’t exist anywhere.

            And he denies ever having said it.

            The only sites that push the line are places like Jihad Watch (nice buncha guys) and died in the wool Republican outlets like ‘The American Spectator’.

            So yeah, not putting any store by it.

            • Well Fed Weta 4.1.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 10:07 pm

              “Yeah well, that link doesn’t provide a quote. ”
              Yes, it does. It records the words spoken. If they were inaccurate, then I would expect you to be able to cite a denial and/or retraction.

              “And he denies ever having said it.”
              Cite?

              Despite the republican fingerprints on much of the scaremongering around CAIR, there is too much smoke for there to be no fire.

              “The founders, Omar Ahmad and Nihad Awad, had earlier been officers of the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP) and were described by a former FBI analyst and a US Treasury Department intelligence official as “intimately tied to the most senior Hamas leadership.”

              “Both Ahmad and Awad participated in a meeting held in Philadelphia on October 3, 1993, and this meeting involved senior leaders of Hamas, the IAP, and the Holy Land Foundation (which was designated in 1995 by Executive Order, and later designated in court, as an organization that had raised millions of dollars for Hamas).”

              “Based on electronic surveillance of the meeting, the FBI reported that “the participants went to great length and expended much effort hiding their association with the Islamic Resistance Movement [Hamas].”

              Source references available at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_American%E2%80%93Islamic_Relations#cite_note-74

              • Bill …
                14 November 2016 at 10:13 pm

                Piss off and pretend that google is your friend and learn the difference between someone being paraphrased in a newspaper report and quoted in a newspaper report.

                • Well Fed Weta …
                  15 November 2016 at 10:23 am

                  I would politely suggest that before criticising my sources, you think twice about making a claim like “And he denies ever having said it” that you seem unable to provide any reference for.

                  BTW, if you take the time to access the Wiki article, you will see those quotes are very well sourced.

        • Stephanie Rodgers 4.1.1.2
          14 November 2016 at 6:26 pm

          Omar Ahmad challenges that quote. Of course it’s from an event nearly 20 years ago which no one has a recording of, so the people who want to believe CAIR is evil will say “the reporter is the most credible person” and the people who don’t will say “it doesn’t match other recorded statements he’s made”, and meanwhile the Angel of Ultimately Unverifiable Internet Quotes will get another feather on its wings.
          http://www.wnd.com/2006/12/39229/

          • Well Fed Weta 4.1.1.2.1
            14 November 2016 at 10:08 pm

            “Omar Ahmad challenges that quote. ”
            Cite?

            “Of course it’s from an event nearly 20 years ago…”
            So are some of the recent allegations against trump. I don’t give them any more or less weight for age.

  5. adam 5
    14 November 2016 at 2:20 pm

    Why is this even a post. It is dribble, the content is shallow, the message is do as you are told and shut up!

    I thought this was a left wing blog, you know looking after the interests of working people and their families, not the 1%.

    • Colonial Viper 5.1
      14 November 2016 at 3:21 pm

      Why is this even a post. It is dribble, the content is shallow, the message is do as you are told and shut up!

      Hi adam, did you want a more complex and theoretical explanation about why Clinton lost?

      I thought this was a left wing blog, you know looking after the interests of working people and their families, not the 1%.

      And yet so many people on The Standard preferred Clinton ahead of Trump. However, the true working class of the rust belt struggling to pay their rent, their health insurance and their kids’ college fees did not.

      • infused 5.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 4:15 pm

        pretty clear most here are deluded, or like some here, just think we all hate women. I dont know why you bother anymore.

      • adam 5.1.2
        14 November 2016 at 6:31 pm

        CV, you and I both know the majority of working people in the USA, DID NOT VOTE!

        So you sitting here banging on how people votes, is tired. Especially when the majority of working people did not vote or were excluded from voting. Which brings me to the stats you keep putting up to lionize trump, these never inclued the excluded or non voting. So make what you will…

        trump is a 1% troll, h.r.c is a 1% troll. The greater evil won, woohoo. The lesser evil became a choice working people could not suffer through any longer. Or is that to complex analysis for you. The fact the democrats ran a dumb campaign, the fact they put up someone who has been vilified for 20 odd years, and did not think some of that actually would stick, is head in the clouds b.s. But It’s what I expect from social democrats committed to neo-liberalism and globalization. Out of touch, and in la la land.

        As for your on going support of a 1%er like trump, I think it does you a disservice there Colonial Viper. It makes you look like a stoolie for the 1%. Or just another ya ya in support of inter elite conflict.

        I’m sorry but I see this site as attempt to promote and advance working people. You know the average people who don’t vote, don’t have jobs, or work really really long hours with piss poor wages. Or those with not enough hours to actually get by.

        trump, is a member of the elite – if you think he is going to anything good for you and yours – you need your head checked. Because like all the elites, they are self absorbed, selfish and bring new meaning to narcissistic.

        • Colonial Viper 5.1.2.1
          14 November 2016 at 6:49 pm

          His election on Nov 8 just destroyed the TPP.

          You may not like him personally, which I understand, but he’s already done amazing good for NZ.

          • adam 5.1.2.1.1
            15 November 2016 at 12:12 am

            Personally, give it a break.

            I despise everything he stands for.

            Even sociopaths do good. A measure of true goodness, is fore thought and the right actions. Something your new demigod lacks…

  6. save nz 6
    14 November 2016 at 2:30 pm

    Whoa – bit of a beat up there on this post to CV, and early in the day people concerned he had been wiped out in the earthquake???

    Here’s another perspective on the saga, by Mike Treen.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/11/12/77977/

    [all the comments so far have addressed the content of the post. That’s what the comments section is for. – weka]

  7. Clump_AKA Sam 7
    14 November 2016 at 2:37 pm

    Support Trump but not Bernie Sanders? Get the fuck out here. Still trying to breath life into a dead corps

  8. ropata 8
    14 November 2016 at 2:39 pm

    You’ve jumped the shark CV. This is a disaster.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1
      14 November 2016 at 3:52 pm

      Have these people been any good at predicting Donald Trump’s performance to date?

      Did they forecast the fact that Trump was going to smash Clinton in the electoral college and flip a whole lot of Democratic states into the Republican tally for the first time in 30 years (and some Democratic counties for the first time in over 40 years?).

      Yet you’ll listen to their bullshit beltway prognostications because of what? Their great track record in getting it right?

      • Bill 8.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 4:26 pm

        The ‘Young Turks’have been pretty ‘on point’ CV. I think Cenk Uygur over-eggs it in the linked segment from ropata, but nevertheless….

      • adam 8.1.2
        14 November 2016 at 6:38 pm

        Jimmie called it when Bernie lost C.V. The young turks have been pretty good, it’s why I was not shocked by a trump win.

        And they are in California, so I’m not sure you can call them beltway.

      • ropata 8.1.3
        14 November 2016 at 11:44 pm

        Cenk did call it, at one point, but he said it would be close. He’s also scathing of the elites that put up the 2 most hated candidates in living memory, making a mockery of democracy.

        Also, here’s Chris Hedges on what we can look forward to:
        It’s Worse Than You Think

        Widespread social unrest will ignite when Donald Trump’s base realizes it has been betrayed. I do not know when this will happen. But that it will happen is certain. Investments in the stocks of the war industry, internal security and the prison-industrial complex have skyrocketed since Trump won the presidency. There is a lot of money to be made from a militarized police state.

        Our capitalist democracy ceased to function more than two decades ago. We underwent a corporate coup carried out by the Democratic and Republican parties. There are no institutions left that can authentically be called democratic. Trump and Hillary Clinton in a functioning democracy would have never been presidential nominees. The long and ruthless corporate assault on the working class, the legal system, electoral politics, the mass media, social services, the ecosystem, education and civil liberties in the name of neoliberalism has disemboweled the country. It has left the nation a decayed wreck. We celebrate ignorance. We have replaced political discourse, news, culture and intellectual inquiry with celebrity worship and spectacle. […]

        Rudy Giuliani; Newt Gingrich, who advocates stripping U.S. citizens of their citizenship if they are deemed to be terrorists; retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn and John Bolton—these men will not exhibit legal or moral restraint. They see the world through the Manichaean lens of good and evil, black and white, patriot and traitor. Politics have been transformed, as philosopher Walter Benjamin wrote of fascism, into aesthetics. And the ultimate aesthetic experience for the fascist, Benjamin warned, is war.

  9. Zorr 9
    14 November 2016 at 2:46 pm

    I call past every now and then because some of the analysis and commentary here can be insightful. How far has The Standard fallen that posts now go up that are essentially Fox News content? Next I expect WhaleOil to be given posting rights because why the hell not.

    In all seriousness, what the actual fuck.

    • TheExtremist 9.1
      14 November 2016 at 3:13 pm

      I’ve given up

      • McFlock 9.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 3:24 pm

        heh

        The current political incarnation of CV puts the “broad” into “the broad labour movement”.

    • Colonial Viper 9.2
      14 November 2016 at 3:24 pm

      Tell me which US based news source you preferred for covering the election campaign then Zorr?

      Did they get it right? Was their analysis in to the dynamics of the election “insightful”?

      Or did you simply fall for the MSM tripe that Clinton was the only viable, acceptable candidate in the race.

      • McFlock 9.2.1
        14 November 2016 at 3:43 pm

        I have it lucky.

        The worst single immediate effect of trump’s win was, in my direct experience, the fact that you’re going to be insufferable from now on.

        You had no basis for your confidence in trump, your predictions in favour of his victory reduced markedly in the assurance and extent as the election came closer, but you won the $44mil lotto ticket and got it broadly right. By pure coincidence (although your line about the intrinsic intelligence did make me chuckle a little).

        But now you confuse your good fortune with validation of your defunct and hypocritical beliefs. Confirmation-bias exponentially caught in its own bullshit loop.

        Anyway, like I say, I’m fortunate. I haven’t been abused or assaulted, I’m not afraid to express my love or religious beliefs in the street, indeed the absolutely surreal and absurd phrase “president trump” still makes me smile a little. But an annopying, blinkered and obsessive little trumpet has received validation that not even he expected, so will be insufferable for the next four years: every fuckup in basic math, every comment about the insanity and propagandistic nature of his link will simply be countered by “did you expect trump to win?”.

        Sigh.

        White, middle class, male, first world problems are mine… /sarc

        • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.1
          14 November 2016 at 3:54 pm

          I’ll guarantee you that no political party in the US will be as dismissive of non-college degree whites ever again.

        • the pigman 9.2.1.2
          14 November 2016 at 8:54 pm

          I think Trump will be a disaster:

          But now you confuse your good fortune with validation of your defunct and hypocritical beliefs. Confirmation-bias exponentially caught in its own bullshit loop.

          Interesting you raise the confirmation bias/bullshit loop.

          Referring to the election outcome as some kind of 1 in a billion, 44 million dollar lotto ticket result… well… self-realisation is a lofty goal, but you don’t seem to have even got the pedals moving in your own little cycle of grief.

          • McFlock 9.2.1.2.1
            14 November 2016 at 10:13 pm

            I was trying to illustrate that the confluence of CV’s prediction with the outcome, not compare the odds.

            The margins were exceedingly narrow in a number of states: bad weather or less successful voter suppression anywhere and we’d have a different result.

            It’s like a weather forecast. A few days out, pollsters predicted it would rain in a few states slightly more that it actually did.
            CV likes sunny weather, so boldly predicted a heat wave six months out.

            Btw, don’t confuse access time on a computer with an indication of grief. That’s projection on yoir part.

        • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.3
          14 November 2016 at 9:06 pm

          You had no basis for your confidence in trump

          The intrinsic intelligence of the universe told me that he was a winner. But sometimes even winners lose due to circumstance or happenchance.

          In this case, Trump won, and won big.

          • mickysavage 9.2.1.3.1
            14 November 2016 at 9:20 pm

            He lost the popular vote and essentially won because of the suppression of black votes in different states by the republicans. That is not winning big.

            • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.3.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 9:52 pm

              Yep she won the popular vote. Is the popular vote mentioned in the Constitution of the United States?

              Trump got fewer votes than Clinton, definitely. But unlike hers, his votes were exactly where he needed them to be.

              Yes there was suppression of the black vote in different states by Republicans.

              But Leslie Wimes of the Florida African American Democratic Caucus stated very clearly on the air that the DNC and Hillary Clinton did NOT do what was required to engage with the black community in Florida even after being repeatedly told (by her) for months that they needed to change their strategy.

              Taking Florida off Trump would have put 29 electoral votes into Hillary’s column.

              Michigan. Michael Moore said that Barack Obama went to Flint Michigan and pretended to blacks in the city that there was nothing wrong with the water there. He even drank down a glass of the stuff himself. Moore said that his move put a knife into the heart of every Flint resident. Black turnout and Democratic turnout in and around Flint plummeted.

              Trump won Michigan by a meagre 13,000 votes. It could easily have been Clinton’s. Taking Michigan off Trump would have put another 16 electoral votes into Clinton’s column.

              228+29+16 =273 = the White House.

              So yeah, the Republicans ran their usual games. And the Democrats ran their usual games (and got caught on camera).

              But facing facts, not even sending the Clintons or Obama to Wisconsin even once, her and her campaign fucked up royally.

              More to the point, the DNC decided to appoint the ultimate status quo political candidate Hillary Clinton, in the year of a change election.

              As for Trump winning big.

              He ripped out a massive chunk of the Democrat’s voter base from out under their noses. He is not going to give that back.

              Trump won states that have voted only Democrat for 30 years. He won counties which have voted only Democrat for 40 years. He flipped 197 counties which had voted for Barack Hussein Obama TWICE, in 2008 and in 2012, on to his side.

              A massive, game changing win.

              But yes, if it is more important to you, he did indeed lose the popular vote to Hillary Clinton.

              • mickysavage …
                14 November 2016 at 9:59 pm

                Yes there was suppression of the black vote in different states by Republicans.

                FFS you then criticise Clinton for not doing enough in Florida. Poor campaigning verses suppression of votes, what is worse? If proper rules applied Trump would have lost. Your spiel about Clinton’s shortcomings are irrelevant. And you repeat the “Trump ripped large numbers of democratic votes” meme when it is clear that stay at homes cause Clinton all the problems.

                You have all the favour of a Fox News presenter and none of the analysis and the lack of sensitivity to shout this loudly in a left wing site.

                See the problem?

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 November 2016 at 10:24 pm

                  None of the analysis???

                  Did you even know any of those voting facts if it wasn’t for me raising them?

                  The Democrats played their bullshit games, the Republicans played their bullshit games. As I said, the Democrats even got caught on camera this time.

                  But you want to focus solely on Republican dirty tactics but ignore the Democratic dirty tactics?

                  My friend, if your line is going to be that the election was stolen from Clinton, and all her/her teams/the DNCs multiple fuck ups should be ignored, just come out and say so.

                  I’ll be Fox News and you can be the Clinton News Network.

                  • McFlock …
                    14 November 2016 at 10:33 pm

                    The Democrats played their bullshit games, the Republicans played their bullshit games. As I said, the Democrats even got caught on camera this time.

                    Classic false equivalence. Republicans disenfranchised thousands if not millions of voters, and the democrats failed to do enough to counter it. Oh, and somehow started violence by tumpeters because “scripts”. Therefore both lots were guilty of “bullshit games”.

                    Jim is a serial killer, but bob chews food with his mouth open, so really they both need to take a hard look at their personal habits. 🙄

                • left for dead …
                  15 November 2016 at 12:10 pm

                  I remember a large argument about this site being leftwing, even having a principle member come out and ridiculed a commenter here, not very long ago. That bitter diatribe was (to say the lest) unhelpful and has set a standard that is leading this site into a down would spiral.
                  please everyone up the game.

                  [lprent: You are misrepresenting what the point that I made.

                  The About doesn’t say anything about “The Left”. That lapse was quite deliberate. It is because we aren’t journos or polsci 101 students trying to ‘knowledgeably’ impress their favoured gender or what I refer to as “religious fanatics” trying to lay claim to the true church. We leave that kind of nonsense to the daft who prop up their inability to think with simpleminded abstractions.

                  For anyone who has spent time around politics is quite aware that “The Left” is a very diverse group of people with differing objectives and methods. So we didn’t use it and really don’t like others trying to imply that we are. This site has authors from damn near every persuasion. But as the About says, the commonality is the labour movement, not a daft and focus-less abstraction like “The Left”. For that matter “The Right” has exactly the same lack of usefulness.

                  I tend to not appreciate dimwits trying to put their own stupid words into my mouth. Normally I’d express that in some way. But I see that weka has already dealt with you… ]

            • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.3.1.2
              14 November 2016 at 9:56 pm

              President African American Caucus (FL) predicts Clinton loss in Florida; says Latino turnout will not be able to compensate for lower black turnout.

              http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/01/dem_strategist_clinton_should_be_in_panic_mode_over_enthusiasm_gap_with_black_voters_nothing_she_can_do_now.html

              • mickysavage …
                14 November 2016 at 10:02 pm

                I feel very frustrated. I have consistently said that Clinton was a terrible choice but you are still saying Trump is great because Clinton is a terrible choice. What is happening? Why do you continue to misrepresent my comments and the comments of many others?

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 November 2016 at 10:35 pm

                  Where did I say you thought Clinton was great???

                  He flipped 197 counties which had voted Obama twice.

                  He flipped states which last voted Republican when Ronald Reagan ran.

                  I don’t give a shit that you said Clinton was terrible. What do I care about that?

                  What I do care about however is you do not appear to understand how fundamentally and brilliantly Trump has utterly smashed the status quo power and assumptions of both the Democratic and Republican parties.

                  Get this: while McConnell (R) has said that Trump cannot expect fast progress on an infrastructure bill through the Republican Senate, Pelosi (D) has said that the Democrats would be pleased to work with Trump to get an infrastructure bill done.

                  This truly is the Twilight Zone. And it’s gonna get weirder.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 November 2016 at 10:43 pm

                  but you are still saying Trump is great because Clinton is a terrible choice.

                  And I didn’t link the two statements in that way. That’s in your own mind.

            • Bill 9.2.1.3.1.3
              14 November 2016 at 10:00 pm

              He did win though Micky. And CV is right on one count – the Democratic Party, insofar as it embraces and espouses liberalism is dead.

              People are over it. Since Reagan, Thatcher, Douglas and who-ever, the working class has had a boot placed on its neck and liberals have been apologists for it through the years.

              If the choice is between a continuation of that, or change, then people are now going to opt for change. And unless we want right wing nightmares popping up all over the show, liberals have to get out of the way. Their intransigence and their disconnect feeds directly into the rise of people like Trump or any other manifestation of right wing hell you might care to mention.

              Corbyn’s and Sanders’ shifting their respective parties away from their embrace with liberal thinking would work. But the established liberal core of those parties seek to deny any change. If they’re successful and as we’ve just seen, it only takes one grotesque clown to tap into and ride the waves of discontent for whole countries to wind up on the threshold of very dark paths.

              • marty mars …
                14 November 2016 at 10:22 pm

                They want change but they ain’t gonna get it – trump is old school not new school and the evidence is in his history and words and NOTHING is better evidence of what someone will do then what they’ve already done. Everything else is total speculation and wistful thinking.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 November 2016 at 10:40 pm

                  Oh yes, everything about Trump’s behaviour and tactics in the Primaries was so predictable and “old school.”

                  Everything about Trump’s behaviour and tactics in the Presidential Campaign was so predictable and “old school.”

                  And of course, having successfully predicted those early two rounds, you now have every confidence that he is going to be “old school” in the White House.

                  100% guarantee you that he is going to surprise bigly and pleasantly. (Even if its by setting expectations in some quarters so low…). Well, I hope so anyways.

                  • marty mars …
                    14 November 2016 at 11:03 pm

                    Look at his most likely appointments doofus – old school all the way. You hope – that’s a laugh – you’re gonna 100% guarantee me eh – newsflash NOTHING a supporter of mysoginist, racist 0.1%er trump fanboy like you can say is taken seriously by me. You are a fool and dangerous too because you’re a poisoner – that is YOUR history. Won’t work though cos you overreach with overconfidence just like dumbarse trump.

                • Bill …
                  14 November 2016 at 10:43 pm

                  Oh. When Germans and others became understandably and justifiably disillusioned with the then existing liberal parties, they got change Marty.

                  And that’s the danger – that the change will be truly awful. With liberals effectively presenting a roadblock to change on the left, the only electoral option for change is to swerve way out past the roadblock on the right.

              • Olwyn …
                14 November 2016 at 10:46 pm

                That is pretty much how I see it Bill. And I would add, the overly cosy relationship between the “acceptable” politicians and the media, which the Trump campaign managed to storm right through. Even here in NZ, mention of Trump by any news-reader was preceded by a “here’s someone we’re all allowed to hate” smirk. Moreover, the whole thing had the character of an election in some vassal state more than a great nation – a corporate puppet versus a rich, loudmouthed local strong-man.

                Maybe there are stages to go through before we get there, but what has happened demands a serious and considered answer from the left – a long collective sneer, however comforting, is not that helpful.

          • McFlock 9.2.1.3.2
            14 November 2016 at 10:15 pm

            lol yes, the wee voices in your head told you trump would win. If they told you the lotto numbers, I’d be impressed.

      • Zorr 9.2.2
        14 November 2016 at 4:44 pm

        *sigh*

        Fox News is only ever going to be shilling for a Republican candidate. If they ever shilled for anyone else then they might ever be worth listening to. That their candidate won the election is no great sign of any “analysis” because they would have been saying the same things regardless.

        And, compared to Trump, I would vote John Key.

        I come here for local political discussion and to hear the voices of the left present their political vision for our country, not to be consistently assaulted by your unquestioning support for Donald Trump in the form of public posts published on this site. The man is a vile creature, a voice for regressive, abusive policies and everything he has said since being elected confirms my belief that it was more than just speech.

        Feel free to believe in Trump, you’re not a puppet to control. However, I take serious umbrage when a site I feel was intended to provide a platform to progressive liberal voices is now being undermined by these posts announcing support for a regressive alt-right thought leader who just so happened to win the US presidency.

        • Reality 9.2.2.1
          14 November 2016 at 5:03 pm

          I have no idea what or who CV is and he is allowed his own opinions and thoughts. BUT his constant harping here means I dodge reading 99 per cent of what he writes, which has become so boring, self-centred, self-opionated. I can conjure up a vision of someone with few friends, colleagues, acquaintances and who requires constant self-affirmation that he matters, to himself at least. Actually feel a bit sorry for him really.

        • Colonial Viper 9.2.2.2
          14 November 2016 at 6:52 pm

          Fox News is only ever going to be shilling for a Republican candidate.

          And CNN the Clinton candidate. But that doesn’t mean that all their analysis is irrelevant or incorrect.

          But more importantly Trump has imploded the establishment Democratic and establishment Republican parties. Lazy observers haven’t noticed simply because the rubble hasn’t stopped bouncing yet (and it won’t for 2 to 3 years).

    • Siobhan 9.3
      14 November 2016 at 3:42 pm

      Well, atleast FOX covered wikileaks and Donna Brazile etc etc. pretending these things weren’t happening, and making them a sideline issue DID NOT WORK.

      At the same time all our mainstream media were jumping at the chance to push often unsubstantiated stories of sexual assault by Trump.
      In NZ there were stories of a certain individuals step daughter, with 3 witnesses, happy to come forward and say ‘so and so molested me’. The News papers, rightly, said..no way…there are no charges from the police, we can’t even think of running with this. Infact I suspect even my mentioning this would be considered borderline.

      But yeah, lets run with random woman accusing Trump of whatever 20 years ago.

      ‘Cos that’s legitimate journalism.

      Lets face it…which media comes out of this with any credibility.

      • Colonial Viper 9.3.1
        14 November 2016 at 4:03 pm

        Well, atleast FOX covered wikileaks and Donna Brazile etc etc. pretending these things weren’t happening, and making them a sideline issue DID NOT WORK.

        FOX also covered the massive crowds that Trump was getting at his rallies throughout the country. And interviewed ordinary people in those rustbelt states and got them to explain why they were voting for Trump. And regularly grilled his campaign team on their performance.

      • mauī 9.3.2
        14 November 2016 at 4:18 pm

        Yep Fox News had a better feel for the nation than the rest of the mainstream networks and was more grounded in reality, bar the republican pundits.

        I guess people couldn’t believe the spin of CNN et al that Trump is the devil, Russia is rigging the election, and any widespread government corruption should be glossed over because hey Trump is corrupt too.

        • Bill 9.3.2.1
          14 November 2016 at 4:34 pm

          Project Fear never works. Most of the mainstream ran with ‘Project Fear’…again. If Fox didn’t, it doesn’t say anything about their ‘feel for the nation’. It just means they didn’t run Project Fear.

          They will if organised resistance on the streets grows though. They’ll be at the forefront then. 😉

          • Colonial Viper 9.3.2.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 5:22 pm

            Soros funded pro-globalist NGO co-ordinated colour revolution technology perfected overseas but now imported for use domestically after (likely) Bahrain, Syria, Ukraine, Egypt, Hong Kong, Iran, Russia, Venezuela…

            • Hydrangea 9.3.2.1.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 6:21 pm

              Very good post CV. Just wanted to thank you for your informative comments – keeps me coming back to TS. It’s actually the Soros sponsored goons who are causing all the post-election mayhem in the US at the moment. Which tells you that the extreme left actually hate democracy. Carrying banners saying Love Trumps Hate and viciously beating up anyone who they think is a Trump supporter. Irony is obviously lost on them.

              • Colonial Viper …
                14 November 2016 at 6:55 pm

                Most kind, Hydrangea, I appreciate your comment.

                • In Vino …
                  14 November 2016 at 8:47 pm

                  I would add… CV’s critics resort to vituperative tirades and insults. How low can he go?… etc. I like reading CV’s posts because there is no vituperative – only some view/fact that counters the pro-Clinton line. Which sends his detractors into new outbreaks of fury.
                  If CV is manipulating his detractors into these outbreaks, more fools them.
                  When it comes to debate, many here could learn from CV.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    14 November 2016 at 9:02 pm

                    Cheers In Vino. Some struggled to cope with the rather obvious cognitive dissonances that I was poking at in my admittedly rather OCD way.

                    Also interesting to be the target of the bullyshaming.

      • weka 9.3.3
        15 November 2016 at 12:09 am

        But yeah, lets run with random woman accusing Trump of whatever 20 years ago.

        ‘Cos that’s legitimate journalism.

        There was an article written by a US journalist a while back (will see if I can find it), where he was saying that for a media outlet to run a story of sexual assault allegations about someone in Trump’s position, there is a process to go through. That process is rigorous for obvious reasons, and it includes spending time with the person alleging and pointing out what is going to happen and what they need to prepare for. For instance, they need a lawyer, to accept they will probably lose a lot of money, that they will receive enough threats that they will probably have to leave home and so need somewhere else to stay. The list goes on but it basically is establishing that the person understands there is a high chance their life will be ruined.

        I’m sure that not ever media outlet is ethical or vigorous enough or never makes mistakes, but even on the legals alone it seems highly unlikely that allegations would be published without evidence. So unless you are suggesting that the only reporting should be done after a conviction, I think it’s valid and fair for the media to have reported on the allegations against Trump.

        “The News papers, rightly, said..no way…there are no charges from the police, we can’t even think of running with this. Infact I suspect even my mentioning this would be considered borderline.”

        from what I remember, the roastbusters story was covered extensively without any charges. What is at issue is that the media maintain impartiality and report responsibly.

  10. Anne 10
    14 November 2016 at 3:31 pm

    Take a deep breath and transcend your fear.

    Tell that to the 3 million Muslims who now face imminent jail or deportation eh? I wonder how many of them are victims of prejudice and bigotry and not the criminals?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37969112

    Edit: oh and btw, she’s not a Muslim but is he going to deport his wife who I understand began life in the USA as an illegal immigrant.

    • McFlock 10.1
      14 November 2016 at 3:47 pm

      On The Daily Show election night broadcast, one of the comedians put it this way: his mum is currently on holiday visiting family in Pakistan. She’s a citizen of 30 years, he was born in USA. She called him and asked, if she got delayed until february, would she be allowed back into the US? He didn’t know…

      A guy couldn’t reassure his mum that she’d be allowed to fly back home after the new president gets sworn in. As Samuel L Jackson might say: “transcend that, motherfuckers.”

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 4:04 pm

        That situation is thanks to left wing disinformation and hysteria over Trump’s immigration policies.

        • McFlock 10.1.1.1
          14 November 2016 at 4:10 pm

          Yeah, cruelly reporting what he actually fucking said and what’s on his campaign website:

          (New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, — Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.

          Polish that turd, buckaroo.

          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 4:26 pm

            I think it was a very reasonable call at the time given the global security situation with ISIS, and knowing that the Trump team would quickly figure out what was going on.

            Hence it was always going to be a very temporary stop gap measure.

            Since then they have figured it out, and refined the position to requiring “extreme vetting” of immigrants for specific countries, like Yemen, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt.

            • McFlock 10.1.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 4:50 pm

              Oh, that’s no longer policy? Cite pls.

              Even if “extreme vetting” wasn’t a bullshit term, you can see why a middle-aged mother might not be sure about whether she’d be allowed back into her own country?

              It was never a “reasonable call”. Immigrants and refugees already get “extreme vetting”. They have a lower crime rate than US-born citizens already. A yank is literally safer living next to an immigrant than next to another us-born citizen.

              • Colonial Viper …
                14 November 2016 at 5:18 pm

                Oh, that’s no longer policy? Cite pls.

                Listen to any of his rally speeches from September, October or November.

                • McFlock …
                  14 November 2016 at 6:55 pm

                  couldn’t come up with anything, huh.
                  Grain of salt, taken.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    14 November 2016 at 6:56 pm

                    I’ve given you the info, use it or not as you wish.

                  • McFlock …
                    14 November 2016 at 7:11 pm

                    no you didn’t. You pulled something out of your arse in the hope I’ll believe he backed off a policy rather than doubling down during the election campaign.

                    I showed you the extract on the trump website. You claim it’s been retracted. You have no evidence to support that. Post-truth llying strikes again from a bullshitter acolyte.

          • TheExtremist 10.1.1.1.2
            14 November 2016 at 5:01 pm

            One of CVs common tropes – claim reporting of Trumps actual words and actions is somehow a media beat up or bias.

            • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.2.1
              14 November 2016 at 6:58 pm

              The beat up is turning a candidate into a caricature and a joke, and turning all his supporters into caricatures and jokes.

              BTW the MSM in NZ use the same technique against Little and Cunliffe etc.

              • TheExtremist …
                14 November 2016 at 7:03 pm

                He is a caricature and a joke – by his very own actions. I mean Jesus, the guy lives in a golden house surrounded by pictures of himself.

                If hat isn’t a caricature of a out touch billionaire then I’m not sure what is

    • infused 10.2
      14 November 2016 at 4:17 pm

      they aren’t. that’s how much you’ve been blinded by the us msm. bloody idiots you lot are.

    • Tim 10.3
      14 November 2016 at 10:51 pm

      Anne why do you say 3 million Muslims? Do you mean illegal/criminal immigrants? Most sources say they are mostly Mexicans.

  11. Cinny 11
    14 November 2016 at 4:01 pm

    Watching CBS LIVE STREAM 60mins interview with Trump, here’s the link, tune in,

    Edit… it dropped out for me found the Full interview here

  12. Well Fed Weta 12
    14 November 2016 at 4:05 pm

    Thank you for posting this, CV. Before the election, if pushed, I would have preferred a Clinton Presidency, yet the actions and rhetoric of her privileged and entitled supporters over the past few days is making me suspect the US may have dodged a bullet.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1
      14 November 2016 at 4:13 pm

      It is my pleasure.

      I think that you’ve now seen in action the “Liberal honour brigade” which seeks to silence dissenting opinion and dissenting politics, as Nomani described. Plenty of bullyshaming.

      • Bill 12.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 4:30 pm

        Ocht – you poor wee martyr you. Don’t call me liberal btw. It’s fucking insulting. And don’t lie about the nature of my challenges to your nonsense.

        • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1
          14 November 2016 at 5:00 pm

          Feel free to take everything personally as if it was directed towards you even when its not, if you wish. It’s a hard way to live though.

          Millions of shy Trump voters felt intimidated and bullyshamed by pro-Democrat mainstream polite society and media into hiding their political and electoral preference for Trump. (Some) Liberals and lefties and Democrats caused it, OK’d it and perpetuated it.

          And its still happening. Nomani called it the “liberal honour brigade” intent on silencing dissenting points of view by labelling and name calling. OK perhaps she could have come up with a more specific and exacting definition or term. But the phenomenon she describes is not imaginary, it is very real.

          • McFlock 12.1.1.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 5:09 pm

            If they’re embarrassed by their racist or whatever opinions, they should get better opinions.

            If they’re provoked into violence by someone simply carrying a placard, they should learn how to use their words not their fists.

            And if anyone feels ashamed of their opinion, it’s a good rule of thumb to shut the fuck up and have a think. Because after that, if you still hold that opinion, you’re simply outspoken, not ashamed. And if other people using their words make you feel ashamed about your opinion, go back and have another think, because they might still have a point.

            And yes, I do apply those rules to myself.

            • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 5:16 pm

              If they’re provoked into violence by someone simply carrying a placard, they should learn how to use their words not their fists.

              The project veritas videos revealed that DNC operatives used scripts and other tactics designed to try and provoke confrontation and violence at Trump campaigns.

              Today, it is the anti-Trump brigade causing violence against police and vandalism against private property. What should they learn to do, McFlock?

              • mickysavage …
                14 November 2016 at 5:19 pm

                Have you thought about asking Whaleoil for a login? I’m sure he would be happy to help.

                • Manuka AOR …
                  14 November 2016 at 5:38 pm

                  Sounds like a plan 🙂
                  We could give you references 🙂 🙂
                  We could probably throw in a bonus of some sort, if that would help?
                  I hear it’s lovely over there – very exciting stuff!
                  (for cv)

              • McFlock …
                14 November 2016 at 6:48 pm

                rioting is bad, m’kay.

                But a “script” never killed anyone. Trump will. The only disagreement is whether he’ll kill more than clinton would have.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 November 2016 at 7:00 pm

                  Clinton has a head start of about 450,000

                  • McFlock …
                    14 November 2016 at 7:07 pm

                    Interesting math, but I’m sure he can make it up if he commits all the war crimes he’s promised. If you’re really lucky, he’ll drop a nuke or two.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      14 November 2016 at 7:21 pm

                      A standard nuke or one of Obama’s new more useable tactical nukes?

                    • McFlock …
                      14 November 2016 at 7:42 pm

                      It’s trump.
                      If he drops one, it could well be an H bomb.

                      Btw, mod12 aren’t “more useable”. Single use, needs codes and precise timing, like all the others.

        • Bill 12.1.1.2
          14 November 2016 at 5:17 pm

          Mis-construed. Apologies.

      • Marcus 12.1.2
        14 November 2016 at 6:13 pm

        yes CV and you ban Jenny off your Syria posts just because she eloquently disagrees with your narrative.
        Let CV comment like everyone else but I’m surprised that he’s a moderator on here.

        • Colonial Viper 12.1.2.1
          14 November 2016 at 7:02 pm

          I gave Jenny plenty of space within which to describe her…ahhhh…theories that Assad and the USA were actually working together as friends and allies.

          • Marcus 12.1.2.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 7:47 pm

            No you didn’t you cut her off before she could explain her point.

            Standard admins – let CV comment here but remove him as a moderator.

            [Lying about moderators and then presuming to tell moderators/administrators what to do. banned for two weeks] – Bill

            • Colonial Viper 12.1.2.1.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 7:50 pm

              My post, my rules.

              • Tiger Mountain …
                14 November 2016 at 10:56 pm

                …”the working class can kiss my arse, ’cause I got the bosses job at last”…

                a good portion of the internet has been rendered virtually unreadable for months during the US election and the resulting acrobatics from those deeply into it

                normal transmission please, tired of the hogwash at one of the few places (TS) that seemed to be hysteria free for a long time, even in the midst of some tight arguments

  13. Stephanie Rodgers 13
    14 November 2016 at 4:38 pm

    Trump lost the popular vote. By about 700,000 votes at the most recent count.
    http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=2016&off=0&elect=0&f=0

    Any analysis or argument which focuses purely on Trump and Clinton and ignores the massive structural issues in US presidential elections – the electoral college, Tuesday voting, voter suppression laws – and the fact that Trump has, at this points, won fewer votes than Mitt Romney in 2012 is simply nonsense.

    • Zorr 13.1
      14 November 2016 at 4:48 pm

      Completely agreed.

      Everyone keeps talking about how to fix the Democrats so as to provide a “more left” option to the Rethugs but that can’t ever happen until voter reforms happen to allow more representative democracy to occur. That every single office of government is an elected position is utterly stupid. There is a serious need for apolitical organisations/ministries to oversee critical functions of government to ensure democratic systems are kept and maintained.

    • Scott 13.2
      14 November 2016 at 4:55 pm

      I agree, the EC may have had a time and place but that has passed. In a modern world, shrunken by technology, it is out of place and distorts what they claim to be the greatest democracy. But will it change? Not likely. The ones able to make change are usually the ones who most recently benefited from the status quo,

      Having said all of that, we should be cautious about what the popular vote means. If they had a single vote (no EC) for president, the campaigns would be run differently (better in my book) and the turnout may well have been different as well (perhaps even more in Clinton’s favor, maybe not, who knows).

      The other example you give clearly favor the Republicans, but the EC v popular vote… that’s a bit harder to be sure about.

    • Colonial Viper 13.3
      14 November 2016 at 5:12 pm

      Do you think the Democrats are going to start pushing for the dis-establishment of the Electoral College? They’ve never advanced such an agenda seriously in the past.

      • Stephanie Rodgers 13.3.1
        14 November 2016 at 5:38 pm

        You’re trying to distract from my point. It is very obvious.

        • Pasupial 13.3.1.1
          14 November 2016 at 6:45 pm

          There is also the effect of the systematic voter suppression techniques used in states with Republican governors:

          Crosscheck in action:
          Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
          Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

          Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
          Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

          Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
          North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393

          http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

          But like Gore, Clinton has chosen to acquiesce to this fraud. That and her treatment of her supporters on election night have eroded the little respect I had for her. At this point, a Democrat needs a multi-percentage point lead just to equal a Republican. The protestors in the streets may be derided as hypocrites, but the system is so broken what other option is there?

          • Colonial Viper 13.3.1.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 7:14 pm

            The Clintons had near total co-operation from the mainstream media, as well as way more campaign funds. That was a pretty big advantage for them.

        • Colonial Viper 13.3.1.2
          14 November 2016 at 7:10 pm

          You’re trying to distract from my point. It is very obvious.

          Trump’s campaign team understood and worked to what the Constitution of the United States prescribes as the process to elect a new President, better than the Clinton campaign team did.

          Frankly, when you look at the fact that neither of the Clintons nor Barack Obama bothered to visit Wisconsin even once during the campaign, the main conclusion is that they fucked up strategically.

          In Michigan, 90,000 voters completed both sides of their ballot: but left the election for President blank.

          Clinton lost that state by 13,000 votes.

  14. Ad 14
    14 November 2016 at 4:55 pm

    There’s no point speculating about US policy under Trump until he’s made his Cabinet appointments, and they are in place and informed by his first policy set piece, which is the Inauguration.

    • Zorr 14.1
      14 November 2016 at 5:01 pm

      His appointments so far have been Reince Preibus as Chief of Staff and Steve Bannon as Chief Strategist. These are both very clear signals that the next 4 years will very much be detached from reality and future developments will be extremely alt-right.

      Saying that we should wait for Inauguration in order to judge someone on their words and actions is utter nonsense. Sure, we can’t know the effect or effectiveness of any policies he may announce until they are, but minorities throughout the US are already having to deal with the fallout of his election and his policy platform emboldens those who are in agreement with the values he has espoused.

    • Colonial Viper 14.2
      14 November 2016 at 5:03 pm

      But to some it’s already obvious who Trump is going to have in his Cabinet: Goering, Goebbels, Himmler and Mengele.

      • joe90 14.2.1
        14 November 2016 at 5:17 pm

        *pfft*…..assorted neocons, warmongers, lobbyists and Washington insiders.

      • marty mars 14.2.2
        14 November 2016 at 5:31 pm

        They are dead the new models are more sophisticated and much deadlier. I’m afraid unless you look like them you won’t be considered one of them. I spose a lot of hanger ons will be dagged, treated as inferior, like everyone else.

      • Garibaldi 14.2.3
        14 November 2016 at 5:54 pm

        Congratulations CV , you have weathered today’s onslaught rather well.
        I can’t understand your detractors not being able to grab the fact that Hillary was such a lousy candidate. In hindsight it is bloody obvious why Hillary lost…. and Obama would have lost too had he been able to stand again. They, the common folk, could not stand the prospect of more of the same corruption, lies and bullshit that the Dems have perfected. They will get the same, or worse, from the Repugs ,but they still don’t realize that under their two party system you don’t get democracy – you get what the ruling class wants. And so the Empire staggers on.

        • marty mars 14.2.3.1
          14 November 2016 at 6:07 pm

          That dosent make sense to me.

          • In Vino 14.2.3.1.1
            14 November 2016 at 9:04 pm

            It does to me, Marty.

            • marty mars 14.2.3.1.1.1
              14 November 2016 at 9:15 pm

              They will get the same or worse… from the two party system which the repubs are a big, like half, of within the two party system.

              Same or worse? Ruling class, empire, on and on –

              But the common folk voted for, not the corrupt dems that everyone has had so much of, but the repugs who are the same or worse.

              Riddle me that

              • In Vino …
                14 November 2016 at 10:19 pm

                Many decided that they had had enough of the corrupt Dems. As Garibaldi said, they probably won’t get better from repugs. But they are like mice running in those hoops in the lab…

                The whole system is bad, nothing like a democracy. A sham of a democracy, with the Empire behind it all, controlling the strings, regardless of who wins some tin-pot election.

                They were fed up with Dems, and there was only one alternative. Trump sounded different and got in by the skin of his teeth. Good luck to those who truly believed in him. I fear they will need it. Because, as Garibaldi said, we will get what the ruling class want.

                (And the Dems did do plenty to shoot themselves in the foot.)

                • marty mars …
                  14 November 2016 at 10:46 pm

                  They voted for trump because he cynically lied to them. They have been fooled into voting for at least the same or worse. And somehow cv’s constant promotion of the lie is worthy of praise.

                  Does. Not. Make. Sense.

                  • In Vino …
                    14 November 2016 at 11:56 pm

                    Don’t you read carefully? CV has never promoted a Trump lie as I remember – all he has done is point out that Clinton was either equally bad, or worse (because Trump as yet has no political record).. And every time you raced into invective. Clinton also lied cynically. Trump upped the blatancy to a level that I thought would make most opt for Clinton. But no – the voters now seem to love the bigger liar. I am a bit dumbfounded, but CV saw it all in advance and you are still resorting to invective. We need to stop and think a while, rather than keep throwing stones.

                    • Chris …
                      15 November 2016 at 1:53 am

                      mars can’t get past CV expressing his disillusionment with the left and separating himself from that label. For mars that makes CV some kind of raving out of control right-winger. Anybody should be able to see there’s no necessary connection. But not mars. And there’s been plenty of opportunities. Is an almost unfathomable situation. Extremely entertaining, mind you.

                    • marty mars …
                      15 November 2016 at 8:39 am

                      Yep they like the bigger liar.because they are desperate and that was taken advantage of.

                    • marty mars …
                      15 November 2016 at 8:42 am

                      Oh Chris feeling left out little man are you. How sad that you have no friends lol I wonder why – not MOANING or WHINEING again are you?

                    • Chris …
                      15 November 2016 at 12:49 pm

                      Can’t ever feel left out with you around, mars. You’re way too entertaining for that to happen.

        • Colonial Viper 14.2.3.2
          14 November 2016 at 7:17 pm

          Chur Garibaldi

  15. opium 15
    14 November 2016 at 7:05 pm

    CV…What happened to that why you didn’t vote for trump post?It was very good.

  16. tory 16
    14 November 2016 at 7:32 pm

    For weeks there were numerous comments etc ‘putting the boot into Trump’ and espousing the virtues of Sanders, Clinton and others on this site.

    CV was banned for a week (not an unusual outcome on this site as moderators sometimes lose control of arguments and too often some of the regular commentators appear to get away with outright abuse at the expense of a difference of opinion), and yet CV has been one of the few to be proven right regarding the US Election.

    Like it or hate it, take your medicine.

    • Colonial Viper 16.1
      14 November 2016 at 7:55 pm

      I’ve just been demoted from being an author on this site now (a move I accept as legitimate), but I appreciate your sentiments.

  17. TheExtremist 17
    14 November 2016 at 8:45 pm

    Watching BBC News over here in South Africa where I am at he moment. Trumps top picks for economic posts are all top Wall Street insiders.

    Funny that…

    • mauī 17.1
      14 November 2016 at 9:20 pm

      Still the lesser evil in terms of economics according to this guy

      • ropata 17.1.1
        14 November 2016 at 11:52 pm

        If the good Professor thinks Trump is going to fix anything, and doesn’t take Trump’s actual statements seriously, he is not paying attention. It is a very scary time. Millions of protestors in the streets…

      • TheExtremist 17.1.2
        15 November 2016 at 1:38 am

        Meet the new managers, same as the old managers

    • marty mars 17.2
      14 November 2016 at 10:07 pm

      Yep REAL regime change – one set of insiders for another – YEAH!!! that’s what I’m talking about. It is gonna be beautiful, a wonderful thing, I know what I’m doing, I’m great at doing things. – sucked in springs to mind but hey he AIN’T even the prez yet lol

  18. Guerilla Surgeon 18
    15 November 2016 at 6:47 am

    The problem is, all these people expect Trump to fix things. That ain’t gonna happen. And if that woman think she’s going to get cheaper medical care from the latest administration she should have another think coming. She quite possibly won’t be able to get any at all.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1
      15 November 2016 at 7:21 am

      It’s going to be very difficult, for sure. Trump is already modifying many of his landmark campaign promises.

      But let’s recognise how Trump has already changed the entire political landscape in terms of how Republicans view Obamacare: Republicans now accept that some parts of Obama care should and must be kept. Particularly – allowing children at home to be covered by their parents health insurance until 26 years of age. And also continuing coverage of pre-existing conditions.

      Here’s how I see Trump working in the next few years: he is going to acquire, steal, borrow, accommodate and copy every good idea the Democrats have, and leave them with nothing that the electorate is motivated about.

      On top of thisTrump has a huge advantage that Obama did not have: an ability to work with both sides of the House (especially Nancy Pelosi and Schumer), along with a Republican House and a Republican Senate.

  19. Andrew 19
    15 November 2016 at 5:50 pm

    The snooty fools who obsess about identity politics at the expense of the economy which affects everyone. The idea that there are a hundred genders is the kind of Left position that frequently draws ridicule. Yet it seems to be the only thing they talk about. It’s rape rumours campaigns within left wing ghettos that bring out the comrades enthusiasm, not the struggle for a people’s infrastructure bank or for what democratic socialist trade unionism means in the 21st century. Sure, they go along to those meetings, but they don’t really understand it. Yes, many of the so called SJW issues have validity but don’t use them as a battering ram to vent your hatred and cultural superiority…and belittle. At the other extreme is red-brown Putin fanboy Colonial Viper who basically campaigned for Trump. Do you enjoy participating in gambling with pseudo fascist reaction? You should hang your pathetic little head in shame.

  20. Bloke 20
    16 November 2016 at 3:37 pm

    Clinton is an evil cold warrior, if she is the left then we are truly lost, and as Andrew mentions people are sick and tired of “feel good” identity politics. Tell me this; would you rather have an Obama who I view as a closet wall street puppet who failed to prosecute a single banker for the GFC, a proven drone murderer but who flatters our egos with soaring oratory that amounts to zilch or a few crumbs as best… or an orange baboon who does not pretend to be anything other than what he is. Trump IS the democratically elected president and we on the left have no one to blame but ourselves- when the left has scraped the barrel of celebrity endorsements what more is their to say uugh… we need to put down our stupid shortsightedness which has cost us our own government and now the US. Face reality; Key won, Trump won because the alternatives we offered the electorate sucked.

    Trump is a protest vote, and for that alone I applaud it.