Judith Collins is losing a PR battle with a patched Gang Member*

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, July 8th, 2016 - 322 comments
Categories: crime, Judith Collins, national, prisons, same old national - Tags:

Judith Collins is an old style conservative politician. A bit of beneficiary bashing here, some tough on crime there, she salivates at every opportunity to scratch those right wing itches.

Her latest effort is to delve deeply into an operational matter, overrule the public service, and blame a dedicated community person who also happens to be a patched black power member for part of the Government’s rehabilitation policy failing.  Yep you read that correctly.

Ngapari Nui is a resident of Whanganui and has been a Black Power member for the past 38 years.  He has also been Kaiwhakamana (Kaumâtua who have access to prisons) in Whanganui for the past five years.

It sounds like Ngapari has been in trouble in the past.  He admitted to Radio New Zealand that he had three serious assault charges back in the 1980s and gave up drinking then.  A gang member who gives up alcohol and keeps out of trouble for three decades sounds like the ideal sort of person to visit prisons and talk to other gang members.

It seems Corrections were fine with him.  He had admitted his association with Black Power before he became a Kaiwhakamana.  He had been checked out and was considered to be fine.

Collins’s opposition is not universal in the National caucus.  Chester Burrows thinks that Nui is a decent human being.

From Stuff:

Whanganui MP Borrows, a former Taranaki policeman, said the decision to stand Ngapari Nui down was Collins’ decision to make but he had known the kaumatua for 30 years and believed “he would only be an asset”.

“A couple of years ago he pulled over and helped me when he saw me having an altercation with a hitchhiker who had stolen my mobile phone.”

Ngapari Nui has been stood down from his volunteer work in prisons because of his Black Power connections.

“When I was a cop in Patea he was helpful in investigations into some crimes involving Black Power members,” he said.

He was also selected by local Iwi for this work.  Again from Radio New Zealand:

Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Ruanui Trust said Mr Nui was appointed by the iwi to work with prisoners and, in all the years he had been in the role, there had never been a reported problem.

Kaiarataki (spokesperson) Debbie Ngarewa-Packer said he was a tireless volunteer worker in his community, and had never hidden who he was.

“Most days you will find him driving our moko to kōhanga, kura and coding computer classes to ensure our young ones get the best start in life.

“He holds paepae at tangi, respects and connects with kaumatua and is actively involved with marae activities.”

Ms Ngarewa-Packer questioned why the matter was being raised now.

“After five years as a successful and respected kaiwhakamana in all prisons, this is now being brought up as an issue.”

There has been an attempt to suggest that the change in heart was because the Department had suddenly discovered that Nui was a current member as opposed to a member of Black Power and not because of Collins’ intervention.  Corrections were willing to reappoint him and had even prepared media releases to announce this before Collins intervened.  But a leak from within the department suggests that this is not the case.

From Radio New Zealand:

Before Mr Nui was stood down, Corrections had prepared a media response stating it supported Mr Nui working in a voluntary capacity to support Māori prisoners.

The response was approved by a number of people in the department including acting deputy national commissioner Darius Fagan.

But, before the statement was released, Ms Collins publicly opposed Mr Nui’s role and told Corrections to remove him.

It was understood that staff across the department sharply disagreed with Ms Collin’s stance.

In a written statement this afternoon, however, Mr Smith said it was not unusual for his department to adjust its responses as more information came to light.

“On Wednesday 29 June 2016 we received a query from media about the suitability of gang member Ngapari Nui volunteering in prison. Early responses developed were drafted based on information available at that time.

“We then sought further information from Mr Nui about his links to the gang. On Friday Mr Nui confirmed his status as a patched member. On Monday we suspended his registration as a registered volunteer.”

However, a Corrections source has told RNZ News the department always knew Mr Nui was a life member of Black Power, and that was the same thing as being patched.

Collins was interviewed by John Campbell.  In true National Party form she appeared at one stage to try and blame Mr Nui for the failure of the Tikanga Maori programme to reduce reoffending rates.

Mr Nui is an unpaid volunteer well thought of by his community and with a life lesson to talk about.  He is precisely the sort of person who should be involved in the rehabilitation of gang members.  The risk that people in jail may suddenly be turned by a gang member who talks to them seems remote even if this was Mr Nui’s desire.

For Collins to delve deep into an operational matter to prevent a volunteer with a credible life story and with an outstanding reputation from visiting a jail occasionally shows how far she is prepared to play politics with her portfolio.  Shame on her.

322 comments on “Judith Collins is losing a PR battle with a patched Gang Member* ”

  1. Clare 1

    Resign now you cruel nasty person

    • aerobubble 1.1

      Impunity. Within a fortnight of Brexit, where individual voters declared their lives werent better so dismantle EU already. Collins declares the stats aint right so destroy something… …its called impunity. Its 9/11 being used to invade Iraq, its Key decision to let rich immigrants buy up existing housing rathe than carry the full cost of infrastructure. Its the media, who aren’t talking about how Bush dismissed the Iraqi arm and let numerous militrary contractor’s earn heaps in protection. Its how the media don’t tell us that our rates are going to rise, as now councils can borrow from the 1 billion fund, and pay the interest as tax payers. Key admits there was a housing crisis under Labour, then forgets all his basic ecnomics to open the door to dotcom types who aren’t paying for the infrastructure, which now ratepayers will!!!

      Its called impunity, Thatcher’s legacy.

    • Save NZ 1.2

      +1 Clare – I’m assuming you mean Collins:)

      And Collins cronies can leave our water and Kauri alone!

    • mosa 1.3

      Collins should be more sympathetic to Mr Nui after all she belongs to the Oraveida Gang with Slater as the bag man and dispatcher with clients like hmm the PMs office requiring their services.
      At least the Black Power members do the time for their offences unlike others you could mention.

  2. jcuknz 2

    Didn’t a previous National Prime Minister hob-nob with gang members [Muldoon]
    I thought she was speaking good sense about speeding but this is stupid.

    • ianmac 2.1

      That is right. Muldoon famously met with gang members on several occasions to gain understanding of what drives people to join gangs and to gain some cooperation for reforms.
      Can you see Collins even being willing to listen or is it possible that all her talk is for the voters who support gangs, like the Sensible Sentencing Trust or the Klu Klux Zlan?

      • mac1 2.1.1

        I thought back then when Muldoon met with the gang members, they respected him as another gang member leader. Same bull-dog countenance, manner and style…………… the gang back then was called the Young Turks.

      • North 2.1.2

        Don’t know that I’d paint his meeting/s with gangs as that wonderful. Deep in my memory there’s a recall that he was pissed as a parrot at least on the occasion which made the news.

      • Chooky 2.1.3

        Collins should wear a patch…the jonkey Nact snarly dog robber patch…she would look good in a leather jacket with a patch…she is actually in competition with the gangs

    • Ovid 2.2

      Rob Muldoon was a complicated man when it came to law and order. He was instrumental in the final abolition of capital punishment in NZ.

      • alwyn 2.2.1

        How do you come to this conclusion?

        “He was instrumental in the final abolition of capital punishment”

        The death penalty was abolished for every offence except Treason in 1961 when Muldoon was a first year backbencher and was obeying Holyoake’s rule of breathing through your nose for your first term.
        When the final abolition of the penalty for Treason was accomplished in 1989 Muldoon was a broken, ignored old man who had no influence in Parliament at all, I would have said.

        • North 2.2.1.1

          Ha ! Look how the Tory fucks just hate Old Rob now. Such arseholes !

          • maninthemiddle 2.2.1.1.1

            ‘Old Rob’ wasn’t a tory, he was a socialist.

            • mosa 2.2.1.1.1.1

              Ah the golden age when we had two Socialist options and the funny money party.
              Those were the days.

            • KJT 2.2.1.1.1.2

              Old Rob had a vision of a future for New Zealand.

              Much as I disliked him at the time, he was in Parliament for New Zealanders, not to make himself and his mates rich.

            • alwyn 2.2.1.1.1.3

              “Old Rob’ wasn’t a tory, he was a socialist”
              True.
              At the time the joke was that Muldoon should have been in the Labour Party and that Rowling was really a National type.
              However I was really interested in how Ovid came to the opinion about Rob and Capital Punishment. Anyone have any knowledge on the subject?
              North’s bitchiness doesn’t help. I think his piles must be bothering him.

  3. Greg 3

    If the guy has cleaned himself up, whats the problem
    Collins is just seeking free publicity for her run at replacing John Key.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      Well, she’s getting the publicity but I doubt that it’s helping her replace John Key.

    • mosa 3.2

      Greg the esteemed Mr Key died years ago.
      The National party had him stuffed and Joyce is pulling his strings and throwing his voice.
      Thinking about it its quite plausible.

      • Greg 3.2.1

        More like the Muppets.
        Key’s memory never faulted him when he was defending the Shewan report in Parliament
        Funny that, aint it.

  4. fisiani 4

    Collins 1 Nui 0
    That’s the result now and forever. That’s not losing. That is showing strength.

    • lprent 4.1

      Only if you are trying to emulate an idiot (and failing to ascend that high).

      Why is Judith Collins still a government MP? Surely they have had enough of her half arsed incompetent and outright stupid attitudes to anything..

      • Rodel 4.1.1

        Collins 1 Nui 0 += strength?… a fairly shallow concept of strength.

      • Pasupial 4.1.2

        lprent
        The problem seems to be that; “half arsed incompetent and outright stupid attitudes to anything”, is all that any National MP has in their bag of tricks. If Collins were to be discarded, with whom would they replace her?

        fisiani’s slogan would be better cast as:
        Collins +1, Nui -1, Crime +10, Community Spirit -10

        • Chris 4.1.2.1

          You’d think Key would’ve ditched her by now. He must see her as useful for something. Maybe he thinks she injects some kind of mongrel aspect. Either that or she must have something over him.

          • Stuart Munro 4.1.2.1.1

            She’s a decoy – nothing like another minister absolutely suppurating with corruption for the peasants to rage at instead of bad king John.

      • mosa 4.1.3

        Collins is already in the Oraveida gang with Cameron Slater the vice president.
        Unlike Mr Nui she cant contribute anything worthwhile and like her leader is full of hot air and arrogance.
        Unlike Black Power she is not held accountable for her transgressions and never will be.

    • M. Gray 4.2

      Judith Collins is no longer suitable for parliament she is past her use by date.
      I would also like to know if she craps on her husbands Samoan culture likes she craps on Maori culture. When they are drinking Kava does she sit up the front with the men. I bet she doesn’t and wouldn’t dare do that in Samoa. If so she needs to pull her head in and respect the indigenous culture here as she does with her Husbands country and people. I noticed she respects the Chinese culture. But of course she would her husband does lots of business there.

    • Joe Bloggs 4.3

      Oh crap fisi, you’re in full bluster mode, spouting a load of bollocks.

      How does interfering in Corrections operations to remove a person who is doing a power of good amount to a show of strength by Collins? It’s just political grandstanding.

      Your response simply shows that you’re completely unable to recognise the qualities of redemption and service that Nui displays every day. And you are in complete denial about how Ngapari’s actions renounce the stereotypes about what patched gang membership.

      Using your argument, the Tribal Huks wouldn’t be allowed to feed hungry kids in schools throughout the Waikato.

      Using your argument there would be no room in society for the likes of Vic Tamati who speaks out against domestic violence from his background as an abuser. Or no space for John Kirwin to speak out about depression, because he experiences depression.

      Just grow up.

      • Hanswurst 4.3.1

        Using your argument […]

        Look again and notice that he didn’t make one. Then look at how much you wrote, contemplate how one of his pointless words can possibly be worth wasting eight or so of your own, and DNFTT.

        • left_forward 4.3.1.1

          Right about one thing only – fisiani gives no argument – just gainsay without rationale. But then again… so do you.

    • Fisiani, You are a very foolish person.

      There are other blogs that would suit you just fine, where you could spin your crap.

    • AB 4.5

      Oh look!
      Fisi treats complex matters of policy like a footy match, Society is just a big footy match eh Fisi? There’s winners and there’s LOSERS, and those useless losers just need to stop bleating and let the winners keep winning coz they are WINNERS. Mike “designer jeans” Hosking gets this and so does Fisi. Fisi is a winner aren’t you Fisi? Course you are – look at the verbal swagger, on the button every time and always on the side of the winners. Keep living the dream Fisi, you deserve it.

      • Anno1701 4.5.1

        ” Fisi is a winner aren’t you Fisi?”

        winner ?

        petite bourgeoisie….

    • Anno1701 4.6

      ” That is showing strength.”

      I guarantee she really isnt the “strong” one out of the two

      without the power of the state/police behind her she would crumble in the face of someone like this man

      Nui is clearly a REAL hard-arse who can stand on his own

      i know who has the real Mana in the relationship

    • Draco T Bastard 4.7

      Nope, what Collins has shown is pure cowardice in her inability to let the past rest. But cowardice is what I expect from RWNJs as we see it all the time as they avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

    • Stuart Munro 4.8

      That’s not strength, that’s prejudice. Nui, with all his disadvantages became a mature and caring model citizen. Collins, with all her advantages is a corrupt and self-serving baggage who is neither use nor ornament.

    • McFlock 4.9

      Lol, so our Minister of Corrections is praised by fisi for the “might makes right” and “bullying shows strength” principles that Nui’s mentoring is trying to counter in the very prisoners that she’s in charge of.

    • North 4.10

      Trust Fizzy Anus to be a fuckwit……broadcasting that he/she’s a weakling. A weakling who screams out to be mistreated. Just loves dom’.

    • reason 4.11

      Judith Collins apart from being the most corrupt new zealand police minister I can ever recall is part of the criminal gang who passed laws in favor of the Alcohol drug industry … putting their profits over and above the health and protection of New Zealand citizens and our society.

      Judith Collins close personal friend ‘whale oil’ is facing court action over the national dirty politics smears he was running against health professionals and others who were trying to lower “Alcohol Abuse” ….. and the harms that flow from that abuse …..

      Things like …..

      • 31% of all crime in New Zealand can be attributable to alcohol (2007-08).[12]

      • At least one third of recorded violence offences committed in 2007-2008
      occurred where the offender had consumed alcohol prior to committing the offence.[13]

      • Alcohol-related crime is estimated to cost New Zealand NZ$716.5m a year with NZ$200.1m alone spend on policing.[14]

      • On average, 33% of all recorded offences are committed on Friday and Saturday nights and Sunday mornings. However, when the number of offences where it is not known if an offender was affected by alcohol is accounted for, the overall most probable percentage is expected to be 46% of all offences.[15]

      Approximately half (49.5%) of all homicides recorded between 1999-2008 involved either a suspect or victim being under the influence of alcohol at the time of the incident. 207

      And

      Family violence in NZ
      • Highest reported rate of intimate partner violence in the developed world.

      • Police attended more than 100,000 family violence incidents last year.

      • Each year, 14 women, 7 men and 8 children are killed by a family member.

      • Last year, CYF received 146,657 reports about care and protection of children.

      Collins, Key and all the others in their rat nest have knowingly created thousands and thousands of victims suffering abuse when they VOTED to pass the incoherent pro industry shambles that the national party successfully passed of as NZs new Alcohol laws.& regulations ….. Dirty politics to a tee…..as we now know thanks to Nicky Hagers informative book….https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Politics

      As a bonus for them they use this destruction on familys to paint cyf’s as incompetent and failing ………. with privatization being the goal all along and naturally recommended by $2000 dollar a day Dame ‘Razor’ Rebstock ….. you know, the one who does expensive incompetent hatchet jobs for Nationals so called cabinet ministers …. http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/06/26/tdb-exclusive-investigation-cyf-the-hollowing-out-of-a-state-agency/

      I would also add that quite a few gang members find ‘family’ in gangs when their real ones have exposed them to shocking abuse, extreme violence as well as neglect that often goes hand in hand and certainly gets worse when Alcohol is being abused by one or both parents.

      John and Judith and the nats gang are working for the piss pushers…………… keeping crime stats high …filling sercos …. and helping drive up gang membership numbers.

      Don’t get me started on Roastbusters either but does anyone believe that no charges would have been laid and no police officers sacked if Helen Clark was Prime minister???

      Roastbusters not raided under national ……….. Nicky Hager raided under national

      Dirty and corrupt is the new law and order.

      • maninthemiddle 4.11.1

        Nicky Hager…is the same Nicky Hager who received personal financial benefit from receiving stolen emails? Is that the same Nicky Hager who received taxpayers money for his Panama Papers mega fail?

        Helen Clark…is that the same Helen Clark who hung a police commissioner out to dry? Is that the same Helen Clark who let cops take the fall for her needing get to a rugby game?

        Oh and the stats are fascinating (not!)…so here’s some meaningful information:

        Crime has fallen to a 29 year low
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11230189

        Murder and violent crime by strangers is extremely low
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/75709143/Murder-and-violent-crime-rates-by-strangers-extremely-rare-in-New-Zealand

        Crime trends headed downwards
        ion-post/comment/67637337/editorial-falling-crime-rate-puts-police-station-closures-in-better-light

        • framu 4.11.1.1

          “…is the same Nicky Hager who received personal financial benefit from receiving stolen emails?”

          cant believe theres still people parroting this idiotic line despite the fact that hagar has a defense in law and was publicly declared to be not a suspect by the police.

          well done – keep flogging that dead horse – it will get up again any minute now

          • maninthemiddle 4.11.1.1.1

            ‘Defence in law’? You mean he couldn’t be charged? Like the drug dealer the police don’t have enough evidence to convict. Hager received stolen property and profited from it. Mind you, I’m thankful for his work…it was instrumental in ensuring the left didn’t win the last election.

            • Wensleydale 4.11.1.1.1.1

              Someone obviously needs to chain you to your high chair and tattoo the phrase “public interest” across your forehead. Perhaps then you’ll get a clue.

        • reason 4.11.1.2

          crime stats??????

          judith collins was using falsified rigged crime stats where burgularys were not counted to show how great she was.

          Paula Bennett laughs in parliament about how the government does not properly collect statistics on child poverty ………. so they can deny the problem until the children living in cars and garages get to numerous and obvious.

          Frank mckcasky is very good at showing how the nats twist and lie with thier fraudulent statistics

          http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/06/26/tdb-exclusive-investigation-cyf-the-hollowing-out-of-a-state-agency/

          http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/07/03/lies-damned-lies-and-statistical-lies/

          http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/07/06/lies-damned-lies-and-statistical-lies-update/

          “Fudging statistics, numbers, facts, and dollar-figures is not isolated when it comes to this government. Only a few days ago, English was sprung giving false financial information relating to Sue Moroney’s paid-parental leave bill”

          Ms Moroney then asked how Mr English got it so wrong.

          He replied that he did so because he confused the $280m over four years, with $280m a year.”

          *************************************

          On statistics, Parkin referred to National and Police trumpeting a 30% drop in crime. O’Conner responded wryly;

          @3.10

          “Well, it’s uh, lies, damned lies, and statistics. If you look at the crime stats, um, which is those recorded stats, you’ll say the government and police administration are right. If you look at the stats around calls for service, they’re the phone calls that police receive in communications centes, etc, and just an example, family violence, domestic disputes; up by 10% a year pretty much, and across the board, 20% increase.

          So it’s the calls for service, to the extent that the communications centres couldn’t manage last summer. There’s a fear, and we’re obviously we’re trying to make sure it doesn’t happen this year. So the two are going in completely different directions.”

          • reason 4.11.1.2.1

            To which I will also add and repeat the national gang subverted responsible alcohol legislation …………..

            Lowering Alcohol abuse IS the low hanging fruit in reducing crime violent crime statistics …

            The drug Alcohol ….

            “In economic terms this harm is estimated to cost $5.3 billion dollars a year in health and social costs
            7
            .
            Alcohol causes approximately 1000 premature deaths in New Zealand each year and many thousands more experience physical, emotional, social and economic harms from their alcohol use

            More recent research is explaining and measuring the impact of alcohol on those other than the drinker.

            This is also substantial and potentially greater than the harm to drinkers from their own drinking.

            Children, young people, Māori, Pacific Peoples and those living in more deprived neighbourhoods are among those that experience a disproportionate burden of harm from alcohol.”

            • maninthemiddle 4.11.1.2.1.1

              “judith collins was using falsified rigged crime stats where burgularys were not counted to show how great she was.”

              Newsflash…Judith Collins doesn’t measure crime stats. Tin foil hat anyone?

              • reason

                “Judith Collins, police minister at the time, has serious questions to answer after the Herald on Sunday’s disclosure that hundreds of burglaries were taken out of crime statistics over a period of years in part of the Counties-Manukau police district. ”

                “A police internal investigation found that about 700 burglaries in the Counties-Manukau south area had been recoded as incidents that would not appear in crime statistics from 2009 until 2012. The inquiry concluded 70 per cent of them were burglaries. ”

                “Ms Collins, police minister until December 2011, admits she had been told “something about the stats” but said nothing publicly.”

                “Ms Collins did not pass it on to the new Police Minister, she told the Herald, because, “I didn’t have details”. Asked why she did not seek details, she said, “because it was very historical”. It was not very historical in late 2011.”

                “The Government went to the election that year basking in a drop in several categories of crime”

                Did You suck on lead paint as a baby maninthemiddle ?

                you can play with your own tin foil 🙂

              • This guy doesn’t represent issues truthfully.

              • Wensleydale

                In much the same way Paula Bennett doesn’t measure poverty stats. Apart from bickering like petulant children, what do they all do in that funny-shaped building in Wellington?

                • maninthemiddle

                  Paula Bennett is the Minister of Climate Change Issues, Minister for Social Housing, and Minister of State Services. Why would she be measuring poverty stats?

                  • Wensleydale

                    Because back when she was Minister of Social Development she basically admitted the government doesn’t measure poverty. And then laughed about it. But you and I both know that you already know this, and you’re just being deliberately obtuse. Again.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Citation?

                    My memory, and Hansard, to name but two. Ignorance is a condition we all share, and do you think it might be an idea if you relieved your ignorance of recent local political history before running your mouth?

                    • maninthemiddle

                      I think it might be an idea if you actually produced the evidence for comments you support, rather than try to bluster you’re way out of your own incompetence.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Utter. Complete. Contempt: I am not your little search toy, ignoramus. Wensleydale is quite correct, and don’t forget my contempt.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      So you agree with a claim but cannot provide any validation for it. Yes, hardly unexpected from left wing trolls.

                    • McFlock

                      yeah, I just googled bennett poverty measure.

                      MITM obviously was asking for a “citation” not because he can’t find evidence, but because he was opposed to even looking for it. Like Bennett.

                      Second time in a few minutes MITM has demanded evidence for first-page google hits. Fucking delaying tactic, is all. Pretend you’re a blank slate with no information whatsoever, and no ability to find even basic information yourself.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “I just googled bennett poverty measure.”

                      So did I. There is nothing that supports WensleyDales claim. Cough up or piss off.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Oh, I absolutely can provide validation, and even a link to the relevant passage in Hansard, otherwise I’d be stupid to make the claim, and I prefer to treat you with contempt and derision instead.

                    If you like you can continue to wallow in ignorance and imagine that Wensleydale is wrong and I am making empty boasts, and then I can rub your face in the Hansard passage.

                    Your call, trash.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      No, you can’t. Not to Bennet saying the government doesn’t measure poverty. If you could, you would.

                      “otherwise I’d be stupid to make the claim”

                      Well, there’s an admission!!

                      And finally, just to show that in your case, stupid is as stupid writes, here’s an official government paper that proves that the government DOES measure poverty, http://www.dpmc.govt.nz/sites/all/files/publications/2397303-mcop-tr-data-on-poverty-in-nz.pdf

                      Suck on that!!

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      She even put it in a press release.

                      there is no official measure of poverty in New Zealand

                      The Right Honourable trash, Paula Bennett, 17th August 2012

                      Rub your face raw, ignoramus.

                    • miravox

                      18 seconds to see how funny not measuring poverty can be mtim.

                      btw your own link is treasury advice about measures of poverty the government might use, not measures it does use.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cck1y6kM5c8&ab_channel=NewZealandLabourParty

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “there is no official measure of poverty in New Zealand”

                      Still no cite. But I’ll own you all the same. There is no official measure. There are several.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “18 seconds to see how funny not measuring poverty can be mtim.”

                      ‘There is not a government measure for poverty’. Correct. The government uses several different measures, there is no one measure.

                      “btw your own link is treasury advice about measures of poverty the government might use, not measures it does use”
                      Wrong. The Treasury Advice cites government advice. WensleyDales claim was “she basically admitted the government doesn’t measure poverty. ” I’ve proven that claim to be wrong.

                  • Pat

                    you really are a complete dickhead MITM…from your own link…”New Zealand does not currently have data which analyses the flows of poverty.”….if you are going to post links that supposedly support your assertions you really should at least read them

                  • Pat

                    “Static data effectively shows the “stock” of poverty in New Zealand without providing a sense of whether poverty is persistent (i.e. the same people are living in poverty year after year, or if different people are moving in and out of poverty). There is no readily available “dynamic” data which directly captures people flows in and out of poverty, however measured. We understand that New Zealand is unique among western OECD countries in not having this analysis.’

                    no measure of poverty…merely a use of income data and a formula (or two formulas)….no useful information,

                    you really do need to start reading this stuff

                    • maninthemiddle

                      Another rabbit. By your own quote, poverty is measured.

                      “The most robust New Zealand measures use current
                      income and current material wellbeing…”
                      And yet you claim we don’t measure poverty!

                      “Since 2004 the constant and relative measures of poverty have diverged, with fewer people
                      in poverty using a constant value measure…”
                      And yet you claim we don’t measure poverty!

                      Read and learn, read and learn.

                    • McFlock

                      Well, if you can’t read people’s claims properly, you’re never going to learn.

        • reason 4.11.1.3

          Dirty Politics: …….. the why?

          “In January 2014, WhaleOil was hacked some time after he posted a blog post with the headline “Feral dies in Greymouth, did world a favour.” Three other children in this family had already been killed in accidents and the post provoked a ‘furious public reaction’.” ……….

          While normal people thought Jk’s txt and cellphone buddy slug boy slater was a insensitive creep Key was actually communicating and commiserating with slater …… the dead boys mother was a “bitch” who had heckled him at the hollowness and insincerity of Keys promises to the dead pike river miners familys ….

          Not covered in Nickys book, but we should remember none the less is the Govts part in the criminal negligence that lead to these working mens deaths …….

          Dirty politics deals with and reveals Nationals sick standards of leadership, abuse of state powers and their media manipulation.

          Its all in Nickys book ……………and I recommend people read it then they will understand why we have a government following right wing failed policy that results in record numbers of New Zealand children suffer housing poverty and all the harms that go with that,

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Politics

          I would add that Nicky Hager would never accept New Zealand children living in cars or garages … thats National and the people who hate him.

          Nicky Hager would never build tax havens so the rich could hide their money while our children get austerity and $50,000 student debts ……………… that would be national and the other people who hate him.

          Nicky Hager would never want or accept our children being priced out of ever owning their own homes ………… that would be national and their friends who hate on him.

          Nicky Hager would never accept our rivers and waterholes being polluted, drained and being stolen from our children & grandchildren …………….. that would be national and their haters who post shit on the internet .

          I could go on and on and on ……….. But to sum up Nicky Hager is one of the good guys in New Zealand

          Dirty Politics reveals who the dirt bag ones are ……… https://dirtypoliticsnz.com/

          • maninthemiddle 4.11.1.3.1

            So you agree Hager received stolen work product and used it for personal gain. Thanks.

            And btw, Hager is not ‘one of the good guys’. He is a self serving trougher, who would print anything for a buck.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 4.11.1.3.1.1

              Hager is one of the good guys: he exposes trash. You are trash, so you hate him and smear him.

              Choke on it, trash.

              • maninthemiddle

                You mean the same Hager that troughs off the taxpayer? The same Hager who ‘receives’ stolen property and then profits from it?

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  By definition, if he profits (NB: from private sales of his own work, not from some fictitious ‘trough’), he’s a taxpayer. Just pointing out how utterly full of shit you are, in your own words.

                  • maninthemiddle

                    When did I say he doesn’t pay taxes? You really are full of shite.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      He ‘troughs’ off himself, does he, shit-stain?

                      [Oi, lads. Keep the abuse to a minimum, please. Concentrate on the comments, not the commnenter. TRP]

                    • maninthemiddle

                      No, he troughs off the tax payer. Ok, I get it. You haven’t kept up with the $$’s he received for his failed panama Papers hit.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      “Failed”.

                      Funny sort of failure when the Trashional Party implements your “barking mad” proposal. Delusional much.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      The PP’s failed. Hager’s hit was designed, as is his obsession, with damaging the Key government. It failed.

                  • Chuck

                    “By definition, if he profits (NB: from private sales of his own work, not from some fictitious ‘trough’),”

                    LOL it was not Hagers “own work” the book was full of stolen emails from Slater.

                    At the very least Hager could of paid royalties to Slater!

                    I would of had some respect for Hager, if he did not leave out a bunch of journalist names in his book. Heck he even justified it by saying they had to be good boys and girls now or else.

                    We all know why though…it did not suit his narrative and agenda. And it allowed Hager to obtain influence over them…same as also leaving out any references / emails to opposition mp’s Slater communicated with.

                    This is why Hager’s book failed to have the effect the strategists who put it into action wanted.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      You’ve nailed it Chuck. His omission of the journalists names is something the left never want to acknowledge. In the end, Hager and Dotcom contributed to National winning the election.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Too funny, a conspiracy theorist. How you must hate Nicky. Choke on your hate, let it consume you, and remember: I am laughing at you.

            • reason 4.11.1.3.1.2

              No I was talking about the reason for the book Dirty politics …..

              “In January 2014, WhaleOil was hacked some time after he posted a blog post with the headline “Feral dies in Greymouth, did world a favour.” Three other children in this family had already been killed in accidents and the post provoked a ‘furious public reaction’.” ……….

              While normal people thought John Keys text and cellphone buddy slug boy slater was a insensitive creep ….. Key was actually communicating and commiserating with slater …… the dead boys mother was a “bitch” who had heckled him at the hollowness and insincerity of Keys promises to the dead pike river miners familys ….

              One of the mothers other dead boys was a young worker at the poorly regulated death trap which the pike river mine was …………

              Who out of John Key and whaleoil called the bereaved mother a “bitch” Maninthemiddle ?????

              Have you read Dirty politics ???? https://dirtypoliticsnz.com/

              Thats only one of the shocking revelations in Nicky Hagers Book and if people read it they would understand it’s only natural that poor children have to live in cars and garages under Tax Haven John and his sick circle.

              Was it John Key or whaleoil who called the mother with three dead sons a bitch ????

              Nicky Hager would never do that …………… he’s a good guy 🙂

              You sound ugly like slug boy ……. 🙁

                • reason

                  Your a dishonest troll who will not answer the question.

                  Which one out of John Key and whale oil called the mother who had three children die including one at pike river mine a bitch ???

                  Many people threatened to sue Nicky Hager…… People like ‘bite them till they scream’, mark mitchell … none of them did because Nicky wrote the truth about them and their abuse of power.

                  “Public interest reporting encompasses correcting a significant wrong.

                  It also includes bringing to light information which affects public well being and safety, or seeking greater accountability and transparency in public life.

                  For over two hundred years in the West, it has often been journalists who have the front line on these issues, digging where others are either ignorant or afraid.”

                  I think Judith Collins has a whole chapter of her own in Dirty Politics.

                  I’m not sure if it mentions the Dirty Politics hit she and the national party did with the alcohol industry ….. keeping victims numbers and crime high .

                  Children, young people, Māori, Pacific Peoples and those living in more deprived neighbourhoods are among those that
                  experience a disproportionate burden of harm from alcohol”

                  Nicky Hager would never willingly harm vulnerable people …….. like the national party does.

                  • maninthemiddle

                    “who will not answer the question.”

                    I’m not here to answer you questions. I’m here to question your answers. Hager received stolen work product, and knowingly used it for personal gain. That places him in the same bucket as the gangs. Not only that, as I have demonstrated, he got key facts wrong, and has never recanted.

                    • McFlock

                      I’m not here to answer you questions. I’m here to question your answers.

                      Proceeds to fail to ask any questions.

                      🙄

                    • reason

                      Nicky Hagers book Dirty Politics exposes many abuses of power and examples of disgusting behavior by cameron slater, john key , judith collins etc etc etc.

                      Despite many threatening to sue Nicky over the book …. none of them have ………… because Nicky wrote the truth.

                      Perhaps you could sue on their behalf ??? meatinthemiddele

                      The courts need another good laugh like they get from cameron slaters defense in all his court cases …

                      And once again ….The reason for information in the book Dirty Politics becoming public knowledge :

                      “In January 2014, WhaleOil was hacked some time after he posted a blog post with the headline “Feral dies in Greymouth, did world a favour.” Three other children in this family had already been killed in accidents and the post provoked a ‘furious public reaction’.” ……….

                      And just one of the disgusting things related to that hack and exposed in the book ….

                      While normal people thought John Keys text and cellphone buddy slug boy slater was a insensitive creep ….. Key was actually communicating and commiserating with slater …… the dead boys mother was a “bitch” who had heckled him at the hollowness and insincerity of Keys promises to the dead pike river miners familys ….

                      One of the mothers other dead boys was a young worker at the poorly regulated death trap which the pike river mine was …………

                      ********************************************
                      Nicky Hager did New Zealand a favour with his work exposing nationals dirty politics …

                      “Public interest reporting encompasses correcting a significant wrong.

                      It also includes bringing to light information which affects public well being and safety, or seeking greater accountability and transparency in public life.

                      For over two hundred years in the West, it has often been journalists who have the front line on these issues, digging where others are either ignorant or afraid.”

                      Nicky Hager is one of the good guys in New Zealand and his book exposes who the dirt bags are …..

                      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/201779410/dirty-politics-players-back-in-the-frame

                    • maninthemiddle

                      …”because Nicky wrote the truth.”

                      Nope. https://jononatusch.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/too-many-errors-why-dirty-politics-wont-convince-swing-voters/. But neither did he defame anyone. So your line is bs.

    • miravox 4.12

      “That’s the result now and forever”

      You say that as if the first round is the final round.

      • reason 4.12.1

        p.s ……………… I forgot to ask mitm (meatinthemiddle) which one he thinks out of john key & cameron slater called the mother with three dead children a “bitch”.

        perhaps he thinks she’s a bitch also …. which is why he will not answer this question from Dirty Politics ???

        Instead he just does low grade troll smears against Nicky …………..

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11562799

        “For citizens to be able to understand what is going on, who is governing them and who is spending money on their behalf and whether people are behaving according to the rule of law and all that, then journalists need to be out there holding power to account,” Ms Cheer said. “

        • maninthemiddle 4.12.1.1

          “Instead he just does low grade troll smears against Nicky …………..”

          ‘Nicky’? Is he your brother or something? My comments have been supported by references, including one that specifically proves Hager lied. His work is full of mistakes, which is why the public dismissed both of his two recent failures. Politics is dirty. But if you think Labour aren’t just as dirty, I have a bridge to sell you.

          • reason 4.12.1.1.1

            Nicky Hager is not my brother ……………… But I would be proud to have him as one 🙂

            Dirty Politics shows that John Keys national are in a class of their own for filth

            I recommend people read the book.

            Who out of John Key and Cameron slater called the mother with three dead children a bitch …… mitm ????

            Nicky Hager would never do that ………….

            He’s a good guy 🙂 …..and only a nasty idiots seem to hate him ….

            and others who are bad.

            • maninthemiddle 4.12.1.1.1.1

              “Dirty Politics shows that John Keys national are in a class of their own for filth”

              No, not even close. Particularly when there are so many outright errors in Hager’s book. Politics is a a dirty game, played by ruthless dirty people. If you don’t believe that, I have another bridge to sell you.

              • reason

                Your claim is false ……No party apart from John Keys national has used such two faced dishonesty and abusive attack politics ………. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Politics

                The prime ministers office under John key was directly involved in all manner of filth as well as OIA abuses, Hacking of the Labour party website and generally using the power of the state against government critics ………..

                One example being what National did to health professionals trying to lower alcohol abuse and all the violent crime that goes with that abuse.

                No other prime minister has been friends and sneakily used such a sick rat fuck creep as cameron slater … and Farrars worse …..

                Which is why no other prime minister or political party in NZ has ever featured in or had a book like Dirty politics featuring their abuses of power and dishonest ways written about them …….

                Its pretty sick stuff ………………….

                “In January 2014, WhaleOil was hacked some time after he posted a blog post with the headline “Feral dies in Greymouth, did world a favour.” Three other children in this family had already been killed in accidents and the post provoked a ‘furious public reaction’.” ……….

                And just one of the disgusting things related to that hack and exposed in the book ….

                While normal people thought John Keys text and cellphone buddy slug boy slater was a insensitive creep ….. Key was actually communicating and commiserating with slater …… the dead boys mother was a “bitch” who had heckled him at the hollowness and insincerity of Keys promises to the dead pike river miners familys ….
                ——————————————————————————–

                I like posting up that tid bit of John Key and Cameron slater because John Key likes to pretend he’s a nice guy ……

                He would hate that information showing him in his true repulsive light being posted repeatedly on the internet …..

                He can thank you & judith for that 🙂 …………. You have been my dull tool and its been funny watching you wheel out all the whingeing memes John Key and his supporting rats use to try and excuse their foul shit,… some of them are contradictory and they are all piss weak( they’re stolen / nothing he writes is true ) ….

                You also seem to have trouble reading what I have written …. you then wank on making stupid nonsense claims …. where did I say judith measured crime statistics ? 🙂

                You looked like a stubborn child ( and a little bit nutty ), trying to deny that Bennet laughed in paliament about not collecting child poverty statistic s …. I guess an 18 second video is too much for you to absorb.

                You’ve also helped me develop effective ‘Nicky troll’ strategies …. the main one being WE WILL talk about the actual stuff in Dirty Politics when you run your low grade Nicky smears ……..

                Don Brash could not get elected because women saw through him and found him repulsive ………………..

                Most people would find keys methods and actions as detailed in Dirty Politics pretty disgusting …

                Or Collins, Farrar, Hooten etc etc

                Reading Dirty Politics explains why we have the type of corrupt Govt who hurt and harm the working poor and their children ……while quietly building tax havens for the rich and their dirty money.

                Or people could watch “The Hollow Men” which was another nicky hager public education service .. https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/the-hollow-men-2008

                Key is uglier than brash

                Rt Hon Winston Peters : Does he stand by his statement of 13 October: “I would certainly describe my style as open and transparent.”?

                Rt Hon JOHN KEY : Yes.

                Rt Hon Winston Peters : If that is true, why did his Government withhold the two child poverty reports for 17 months in an abuse of the Official Information Act?

                • maninthemiddle

                  “No party apart from John Keys national has used such two faced dishonesty and abusive attack politics ”

                  You are in lala land if you believe that. The Labour Party President travelled to Australia to dig up personal dirt on John Key. Clark was a master of the ‘dark arts’, and what do you think of the cosy relationship between Hager and Labour in the lead up to the last election? You’re living in a parallel universe, but if it makes you happy, go for gold.

                  • reason

                    Your either stupid or a liar …….. probably both.

                    The opinion of a stupid liar does not count for much with me …

                    Clarke did not like Hager as he released a book ‘seeds of distrust ‘ …. which showed labour in a bad light before an election.

                    Hager works to expose the truth ….

                    you post like a stalker to spread bullshit.

                    John key who you spend hours upon hours trolling for is such a creep that he twists and uses out of context the words of a real man speaking out against domestic violence ….

                    John Key is proud to be a dirt bag of a man using domestic violence and its victims for Dirty Politic games …..

                    Nicky Hager would never use beaten woman and kids to spread false narratives ………. whose the real man?

                    • maninthemiddle

                      When did I link Hager to Clark? That’s right, never. You have no evidence linking John Key to anything you claim, none. You have Key Derangement Syndrome, common among the left.

  5. Don't worry. Be happy 5

    Any cop, or ex cop, who thanks a gang member for their help busting other gang members….in the newspaper no less, is an idiot. Should immediatly join the National Party.

    • Rob 5.1

      +100 seems a very stupid thing to do. may he be in danger of disappearing now. police informant. STRANGE

    • RJL 5.2

      The help Nui has given to the police would probably have been around facilitating mediation and arranging meetings and so forth.

      That is, stuff that other black power members would already know all about.

      • McFlock 5.2.1

        yeah – some crimes make strange bedfellows, but there are always trust issues on both sides that an intermediary can assist with.

  6. Ffloyd 6

    Maybe the media should revisit her highly questionable past.

    • Gangnam Style 6.1

      Her hidden associates, like the one she had dinner with but won’t reveal his/her name.

  7. esoteric pineapples 7

    This sort of behaviour potentially encourages ugly cynicism on the part of Nui and those who know him. They see a politician and the system they represent crucifying an innocent person.

  8. Sam C 8

    The bloke is a patched gang member. Got it? A patched gang member. Of a gang that peddles P, commits armed robberies and serious assaults. Not to mention the undoubted domestic violence simmering under the surface.

    He may have cleaned his act up, but he is still a paid up member of a very bad gang. You can’t divorce that from the fact he may be a nice guy.

    • Pat 8.1

      so guilt by association?

      • fisiani 8.1.1

        Yes. What’s wrong with that?
        He had a choice. stay in the gang or leave.
        He made his choice.

        • Muttonbird 8.1.1.1

          And there ends the rehabilitation program.

          Lock ’em up forever no matter the cost seems to be your preferred option.

          • Gangnam Style 8.1.1.1.1

            Must have shares in the private prisons, or is PR for those that do.

        • KJT 8.1.1.2

          Have you resigned from NACT yet Fizzer. The party of (Criminal) convictions).

      • Richardrawshark 8.1.2

        Damn straight Pat. Black power are not a motorcycle club, they are an organized criminal group.

        • Pat 8.1.2.1

          if you wish to apply guilt by association there will be no one left to guard the prisoners

        • AmaKiwi 8.1.2.2

          “Black power are not a motorcycle club, they are an organized criminal group.”

          So are the Parliamentary National Party.

          • Jones 8.1.2.2.1

            +1 And add to that the finance/banking cartels.

            • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2.2.1.1

              +1

              Exactly. Throughout history the rich have acted unethically but have not had the laws applied to them in the same way. Time to change that.

      • Sam C 8.1.3

        Absolutely guilty by association. You can’t be a patched member and be silent as to the goings on of other members. The patch is an overt endorsement of what the gang stands for.

        • vto 8.1.3.1

          Like National Party members and the bile they dump on others

          • marty mars 8.1.3.1.1

            oh vto don’t you know that patched gang members cause ALL the problems in our society – if there were no patches there would be no problems. /sarc

            there is no good there, they aren’t people, they are animals that prey on others – oh sorry that is the gnats 🙂

        • Pat 8.1.3.2

          two words….Murray McCully

    • “that peddles P, commits armed robberies and serious assaults. Not to mention the undoubted domestic violence simmering under the surface.”

      dim – peddles p to who? That’s right – all the suits wanting relief from the hell they are in conforming to the man in this dog eat dog world of capitalism and exploitation.

      and as for domestic violence – that is everywhere – are your friends and family not affected?

      collins is thick like a plank of wood and she is devious – so yep johnkey better watch out – she’s a coming, coming round the bend…and she has all of the loved gnat leadership qualities.

      • Sam C 8.2.1

        Mate, the Black Power is on another level as far as badness goes. But if you want to wilfully ignore that and make it all about Judith Collins, then go for it.

        If he was serious about rehabilitation, the bloke would have forsaken his patch years ago.

        • marty mars 8.2.1.1

          bullshit sam – you really are spewing rubbish but it is okay because judith and her minions agree with you lol

          • Sam C 8.2.1.1.1

            Why is it bullshit Marty?

            • marty mars 8.2.1.1.1.1

              because it isn’t true and is a series of lines used (by the gnats and others with agendas) to demonise others particularly Māori.

              here is a hint – HIS people nominated him – end of story.

              • Foreign waka

                Amazing that you guys don’t see it – divide and conquer. So much for political nous.
                Firstly, patched members are seen as the nemesis to any governing body. Everywhere, full stop – end of story. It does not matter what chapter. This fact cannot be ignored and/or exceptions made.
                That “HIS” people elected him is nice but really politically and from the role of the governing side (no matter what party) this is only insofar of interest as far as visiting rights go.
                And lets not forget in all of this – we are talking about rapists, murderers, burgles and people who bash the vulnerable. In any other contribution voices constantly proclaim how terrible and these people need to be locked up. Well, they are and thank god for that.
                If anyone really want a decent society than there needs to be a stance of what is right and what is wrong. Not what is you pal or what party suits today better. Lack of this is the real undoing of any society.

                • The bits i could follow i disagreed with and the rest was too sloganish and assumptive to make much sense sorry Fw

                  • Foreign waka

                    Elaborate…

                    • You make absolutist statements that I don’t think are true. You have a definitive view which I don’t share on patches, the point of his people choosing him, locking people up and stances of right and wrong.

                • weka

                  “If anyone really want a decent society than there needs to be a stance of what is right and what is wrong.”

                  So maybe we should just take them out and shoot them? Because trying to make everyone Pākehā is why we have gangs in the first place. Putting gang members in prison when they commit crimes doesn’t stop the gangs from existing, I would have thought that was obvious.

                  • Foreign waka

                    What a cope out, really. I expected better, a lot better. Gangs are of all races, here and overseas. You just try to defend the indefensible with the race card and it is so obvious.
                    The apologist attitude towards criminals is astounding, given the high rates of violence against the most vulnerable in NZ. This is well documented and has absolutely nothing to do with race or political parties.

                    • weka

                      Now you’re just making shit up. I’m not apologising for gangs.

                      Ngapari Nui isn’t a criminal. He and his work was accepted by Corrections as being appropriate where they knew full well his background and associations. His own people endorse him. He’s an asset to solving the gang problems. If you have some argument to put up that he’s not, an argument that goes beyond the rhetoric of gangs are all evil and no good can come of it, then make it. It better be able to make a case for why corrections and Māori are incapable of knowing what to do. Otherwise just be honest and say we may as well shoot the lot of them, because as far as I can see you want them eradicated but are not proposing where those people should go.

                    • Foreign waka

                      Are you actually reading what I write or are you just blindly angry and through the toys out of the cot?
                      My statement referred to prisoners in terms of being criminal and as for gangs, see what I wrote above, they would not be accepted in any correction system the world over – no matter what race or color.

          • Chuck 8.2.1.1.2

            Wake up marty mars…Black Power / Mongrel Mob / Hells Angels / Head Hunters etc are scum of the earth.

            While Nui “belongs to his piece of shit gang” he promotes to the very people he is meant to help that its “ok” to be part of the culture that deals in handing out untold pain and damage to his own people and the rest of NZ.

            Nui “own people” may of nominated him…fool them for continuing the cycle of abuse rampant in gang culture.

            If Nui takes off his patch and throws it away…it would be a defining statement. Put a line in the sand that gang culture holds no future for anyone period.

            • marty mars 8.2.1.1.2.1

              scum of the earth lol – grow up chucky

            • framu 8.2.1.1.2.2

              “While Nui “belongs to his piece of shit gang” he promotes to the very people he is meant to help that its “ok” to be part of the culture”

              well apart from the fact he discourages people from joining of course

              • Chuck

                Which is why he needs to burn his patch.

                On one hand, say don’t join…on the other don’t take any notice that I am still a patched member.

                • framu

                  so the fact your getting things wrong means nothing? Just shift dem goal posts?

                • Draco T Bastard

                  He may be a lifetime member but, from reading his story, I doubt he’s worn a patch in 30 years.

                  And his position allows him to help the police solve crimes through acting as liaison with the Black Power.

                  And his position will probably help the others, especially the young, within Black Power to realise that crime isn’t the way forward.

                  All I’m seeing here is the RWNJs having their standard kneejerk reaction without putting any thought into what’s actually happening and considering the positives of the situation.

                  • jcuknz

                    Being a member of the gang gives him considerable status towards doing what he did for Corrections until Collins bumbled in with her black/white attitude.

                  • Chuck

                    “He may be a lifetime member but, from reading his story, I doubt he’s worn a patch in 30 years.”

                    Once patched it never comes off (and no it does not meaning wearing it all the time!), unless he is de-patched for breaking rule/s…which would of meant a savage beating as well.

                    “And his position will probably help the others, especially the young, within Black Power to realise that crime isn’t the way forward.”

                    Black Power and to a lesser degree Mongrel Mob have watched the likes of the Hells Angels move away from “old school gang behavior” and see a lot more $ can be earned from playing smart in the criminal underworld.

                    You may recall in the news a piece about Black Power / Mob feeling the pressure from Head Hunters moving into Provencal towns to corner the P markets.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Once patched it never comes off (and no it does not meaning wearing it all the time!)…

                      Except that, in context, wearing it or not makes a difference. If he’s not wearing it then the people who he’s talking don’t know that he’s a member of the Black Power.

                      Black Power and to a lesser degree Mongrel Mob have watched the likes of the Hells Angels move away from “old school gang behavior” and see a lot more $ can be earned from playing smart in the criminal underworld.

                      The biggest criminals happen to be the banks and they do a hell of a lot better than the criminal underworld. Hell, the criminal underworld have to go through the banks to help launder the money that they have.

                      They also happen to be legal.

        • framu 8.2.1.2

          “Mate, the Black Power is on another level as far as badness goes.”

          they used to be (along with the mongrel mob) but that changed a lot over the years

      • North 8.2.2

        She always was a mongrel. Ask Auckland lawyers of 30 years ago. A complete up herself control freak mongrel.

    • M. Gray 8.3

      But I thought this govt wanted to help gang members if so what better way to help them than to utilise one of there own that is rehabilitated. Rather than send people in that cant relate and have no idea but may have academic qualifications.
      If we are talking about being tarred by association Cameron Slater comes to mind here wasn’t he one of Collins best friends

      • North 8.4.1

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11670883

        Mr Dickhead Know Nothing And Doesn’t Bother To Ask Reporter Mr Kurt Bayer should have a look at the Criminal Procedure Act 2011, s.37 (4) and s.37 (7) –

        ” (4) A defendant who is represented by a lawyer may plead not guilty or enter a special plea by filing a notice in court.”

        ” (7) A Registrar may exercise the power of the court under this section to receive a not guilty plea from a defendant charged with a category 1, 2, or 3 offence.”

        So contrary to the Dickhead Reporter’s suggestion that this lawyer got special treatment it is routine under the Criminal Procedure Act that a defendant may enter a not guilty plea by notice (in writing) before a registrar, viz. without appearing personally.

    • esoteric pineapples 8.5

      So there is to no rehabilitation in life for anyone who ever commits a crime? Just drive them into the ground till they die or fight back with violence and anger and then throw them in prison again?

    • Chromophore 8.6

      I despise Judith Collins and her own elected gang, but you’re quite right Sam, Ngapari’s a member of a criminal organisation and that’s the end of it.

      Oh, and Turia putting her two cents worth in is a joke. Stop moaning Tariana because you’re the one who supported this lot and helped deliver this arrogant government. As you sow, so shall you reap, you silly woman.

    • KJT 8.7

      There goes all the members of the Catholic church then.

      History of covering up for pedophiles in their midst.

  9. Neil 9

    Worth noting that National aligned propagandists at NZ Herald avoided the story until late yesterday, and then ran what looked like a National Party press release.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11670478

  10. Puckish Rogue 10

    I suspect more voters are likely to agree with Judith Collins then disagree with her on this so shes probably winning the battle IMHO

    • dukeofurl 10.1

      Shes still losing as shes decided to take on the running of a prison ( yes the Minister of Corrections is unique in that respect and can do so ) so that when other problems occur she cant say anymore – nothing to do with me, I dont run the prisons.

      As they say in Life, careful what you ask for.- you get it back double

    • Richardrawshark 10.2

      I agree PR, gut feeling but polling i’m sure would show lots of support for her on this. She’s on a winner and will gather support making a stand on this.

      Polling will have already told her this, Nats don’t seem to make stands without consulting pollsters like Farrar first.

    • marty mars 10.3

      I think people who think are seeing the idiocy of her position- and people who don’t aren’t. And you are correct – one is a minister desperately searching for votes to hoover up and the other is some dude selected by his people to help some other people – and sure some don’t like it because the ‘gang’ boogeymanfreeforall – the non-likers are like little wee lapdogs barking on cue – no deep thinking there, and the people who selected him don’t care that some don’t care because those non-likers have never cared before, EVER.

      So yep collins is on a winner – bash, bash repeat until no more bashing needed.

    • weston 10.4

      national voters maybe anyone else with a heart a soul and a brain ….nope

    • North 10.5

      There’s nothing humble about your opinion PR. You’re a fuck who hangs around with people you don’t even like (TS contributors) in order that you might feel your love for the Non-Man Key all the more intensely, that you might have a purpose in life.

    • Puckish Rogue’s intention is to discourage. He uses his “reasonable” voice to do it, believing it’s harder to pick his play, but looking at his commenting history, it obvious. His intention is to erode your confidence. Would he do that off his own bat?
      Doubt it.

    • KJT 10.7

      I’ve been reading articles from some of the more thoughtful right wingers as well.

      They think Collins is a twit and “unsuitable to be an MP”.

  11. Richardrawshark 11

    Patched gang member, end of.

    Drops the patch no issues, can’t stand the woman, but it’s the right call.

    Cannot set a president, what next hells angels, mob, nomads,tribesmen etc etc etc.

    What happens when a mobster gets his patch for killing him? You’ll all scream about lack of protection..

    This is so wrong, and judiths so right on this.

    • Bill 11.1

      And if he’d given up his patch, would he still have been able to be as effective in the role he played? And if he hadn’t been as effective in that role, would that have resulted in degrees of hurt and damage occurring?

      White hat/black hat only works for zealots and in 1950s Hollywood westerns. (Hmm. Okay I’m being too kind to Hollywood scriptwriters – they still regularly churn out childish binary tosh)

    • Molly 11.2

      “Patched gang member, end of.”

      Patched gang member or not, they are part of our society and NZ. We either recognise them as such and leave the door open to “membership” of other groups (and their influence) in their lives, or we keep that line drawn and ensure that any patched gang member that wants a different life, not only has to find some way to leave the gang – but is not shown an alternative place in NZ where they can fit.

      There are a lot of “gangs” that cause destruction to NZ lives. Members are in the reincarnated Business Roundtable, some of them are politicians, and some of them are traders (eg. of fraudulent emissions trading schemes).

      As soon as you write – end of – what you demonstrate is just the end to your consideration and thinking.

      It is not the end of the problem – or a solution on how to create a NZ where the alternatives to belonging in a gang are easy to see, and accessible.

      A thought experiment for you:
      Ask a tobacco company executive to leave his highly paid job, with like-minded people to walk alone amongst a large majority of people who will vilify him.

      Do you think he would leave his “gang” to do so? (Leaving aside an invitation to stand as an MP…)

      Why do you not consider that Nui retained his membership because he has real relationships within that group, and it provides reassurance that because he has changed, it doesn’t mean that he discards them? That is influence and persuasion at its best and most effective.

    • “End of (story)” – such a give-away line. Whenever I see it I think, “end of that commenter’s ability to take on new information/see the issue differently/think”.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.4

      Cannot set a president, what next hells angels, mob, nomads,tribesmen etc etc etc.

      Yes. By incorporating them into society and showing them that they have a stake in it and how much better they’ll be is what will stop them being criminals. Keeping them on the outside is what keeps them being outlaws.

  12. Sam C 12

    But being a member of Black Power is not the same as being a member of Rotary or the Freemasons. If you are patched, you are, by the very nature of the patch, endorsing the behaviour of your fellow patched members, even if you aren’t partaking in it yourself. And it is a fact that patched Black Power members do some very bad shit.

    So I would argue that white hat/black hat works perfectly here.

    • marty mars 12.1

      “But being a member of Black Power is not the same as being a member of Rotary or the Freemasons”

      yeah nah – it is the same sam

      if a pedophile rotary club member is caught and convicted all other rotary members are guilty by association and really they should have known and done something about it – but they didn’t, they put their heads in the sand and pretended there was no issue – they lied to themselves, their families, and society as a whole – only problem with my satirical scenario is that then the prisons would be full of pale dudes trying to benchpress 20kg

      • Sam C 12.1.1

        I’ll just agree to disagree with you on this one Marty. I’m no fan of Collins, but I reckon she’s got it right in this case.

      • DoublePlusGood 12.1.2

        Yes it is different. Black Power is an organisation with criminal activity as its purpose. Rotary is a charity, and the Freemasons are a charity/cult.

        • Jones 12.1.2.1

          I think the purpose of a gang is to provide protection for their members from other gangs. Additionally members often derive psychological benefits of recognition and respect from belonging.

          That is true whether they are Black Power (or any other “gang”), political parties or financiers, etc. – the criminal activity is simply a means to an end: power and profit.

    • Pat 12.2

      “So I would argue that white hat/black hat works perfectly here.”

      so you live in a (bad) western movie?…..how about judging the guy on his actions?

      • Sam C 12.2.1

        I am judging the guy on his actions. His action that I’m judging him on is that he is a patched member of a very bad gang.

        • Pat 12.2.1.1

          a life member…a subtle difference. I wonder if you would have the strength of character this guy has displayed the past 30 years if you had the same background?

          • Sam C 12.2.1.1.1

            If he had strength of character, he’d bin his patch.

            • Pat 12.2.1.1.1.1

              “To be uncertain is uncomfortable, but to be certain is ridiculous” Goethe (apparently)

            • Stuart Munro 12.2.1.1.1.2

              Thirty years of good behaviour is more than we’ve seen from any Gnat. The suit is the more disgraceful patch.

        • Robert Guyton 12.2.1.2

          “I am judging the guy on his actions. His action that I’m judging him on is…”

          Actions/action…we need a little more rigour in your thinking here, Sam C. Please. You’re coming across as shallow and lightweight. Could you apply yourself just a little more, for all our sakes? Thanks.

          • Sam C 12.2.1.2.1

            I think I’ve made myself pretty clear with my comments today, Robert. Your patronising tone is strangely reassuring though.

            • Robert Guyton 12.2.1.2.1.1

              Indeed you have, Sam C, indeed you have. Clear as. Transparent even. You’ve revealed yourself, unencumbered by any sort of cloak of discretion, wrap of empathy or sympathy or mantle of civilized thought. Unrinsed by the milk of human kindness, you are.

              • Sam C

                Very eloquent. If only I were as rigorous a thinker as you and not so shallow and lightweight. I’ve just realised that Black Power are a force for good.

                Since you mention cloaks, You should try unencumbering yourself from your cloak of sanctimony some time and open your eyes to the real world. Out there, Black Power are bad people.

                • I could help you to become the rigorous thinker you yearn to be, Sam C. Try this thought exercise:
                  You describe “out there” as “the real world”. I wonder then, would you describe your own internal space as “the unreal world”?

                • North

                  Why don’t ya fuck off Sam C ? You’ve hardly been here before except to defend Ugly Soul Crook Collins, Mr Nonchalant Know All Hosking, and the shit behind the Panama papers. You wouldn’t be from the Papakura branch of the National Party would you ?

        • framu 12.2.1.3

          “I am judging the guy on his actions.”

          considering the guy is drug, alcohol and violence free, hasnt commited crimes in years and is trying to stop others repeating his mistakes i would say your judging him on his affiliations, not his actions

    • Brigid 12.3

      No, it doesn’t. How do you know he condones the behaviour of his fellow Black Power members?
      Why do you say ‘If you are patched, you are, by the very nature of the patch, endorsing the behaviour of your fellow patched members’.
      Do you know that this ‘behaviour’ is Black Power policy?. Is every member obliged to condone it?

      How about you ask Ngapari Nui himself if he condones the behaviour of other members of the gang.

      • Chuck 12.3.1

        “No, it doesn’t. How do you know he condones the behaviour of his fellow Black Power members?”

        Answer: By being a life / patched member of Black Power. In both the Mongrel Mob and Black Power “law” Wearing a patch meant supporting the actions of the gang.

        “How about you ask Ngapari Nui himself if he condones the behaviour of other members of the gang.”

        If he does its lip service…until he removes his patch and life membership. A new gang member receiving his patch was a sign of your commitment to the cause.

        However I do accept throwing his patch away could be dangerous, gangs do not take lightly to a patched member walking away. Violence, beatings or worse are the norm. However In Nui’s case because its high profile, it would be very unlikely.

        Every gang has “prospects” who have to prove them self’s to the patched members. And its not by keeping the house tidy…drugs, sex (rape), violence, crime (jail time), sometimes death (rival gang).

        • framu 12.3.1.1

          so he can only prove something by doing what you decide? – how authoritarian

          ever thought that hes speaking to his own by his actions? – its called leading by example

    • left_forward 12.4

      … and following on from marty mars’ brilliant response, how many freemasons, with their leather aprons (patches) , do you see offering positive support to gang members in prison?

      • Sam C 12.4.1

        ….and following on from your brilliant response, how many Freemasons, with their leather aprons (patches) do you see dealing P, fencing stolen goods, seriously assaulting others and generally being a nuisance?

        The Black Power is a criminal organisation. To pretend otherwise is naive in the extreme.

        • marty mars 12.4.1.1

          “….and following on from your brilliant response, how many Freemasons, with their leather aprons (patches) do you see dealing P, fencing stolen goods, seriously assaulting others and generally being a nuisance?”

          actually I have seen most of them do that and they have done it for CENTURIES – yes read again CENTURIES.

          you are so blinded by the bigotry you don’t see the leather apron fool – WAKE UP SAM WAKE UP!!!!

          All of your fears are happening from YOUR OWN groups – whatever they are. YOUR groups deal and use P, launder money and cheat on their taxes, intimidate and assault others including people they plead that they love like their children, they are receiving and fencing stolen goods like the world was ending tomorrow. The shit scourge on our society are the groups you belong to Sam – every fucken single one of them whatever they are. YOU are the problem.

          • Sam C 12.4.1.1.1

            Ha! Nice diversion Marty, but I don’t buy it. You don’t know the first thing about me, pal.

            • marty mars 12.4.1.1.1.1

              I know you like collins and you hate black power – that paints a pretty non-pretty picture for me.

              and as I said whatever groups you associate with, and belong to, have caused massive and uncountable damage to the world, communities and people. And you are doing what about that? because it is happened NOW, TODAY – don’t be under any illusions that you are not part of one of those despicable groups, don’t try to wiggle out.

              • Chuck

                FFS marty…You belong to a group called Homo Sapiens.

                Now don’t be under any illusions that this group is the most despicable group of them all!!

            • North 12.4.1.1.1.2

              You’re a bigot and a fool and a vile classist Sam C so fuck off and report back to Ugly Soul Collins.

              • Sam C

                I’m a bigot and a vile classist? Really? How do you figure that out, Northy?

                How about you’re an apologist for a criminal organisation. It really cracks me up that you and other commenters on here think that Black Power are a nice club of fellas who drop lunches into schools and generally help the community. Take the blinkers off.

                • framu

                  “you and other commenters on here think that Black Power are a nice club ”

                  thats BS sam – what people are saying is that theres more to this than your one dimensional binary view point and that the paths to fixing the problems gangs cause is also non-binary

        • left_forward 12.4.1.2

          It is this mainstream, one dimensional view of the gang (‘… a criminal organisation’) that is being challenged here. It is not a pretense – Nui is clearly demonstrating for instance, that there are other more humane qualities within this group of people. Is it naive to focus on the potential that Nui clearly believes in and commits to?

          • framu 12.4.1.2.1

            for many a gang is the only family structure theyve ever known, and just like any enormous family theres competing desires and factions

            to take a view that they all think and act alike, and that there arent forces within seeking to change this “family” into something better simply denies reality

            kind of sad that theres people who would codemn both a family structure and a potential for change – two things that many young inmates need.

            And they will only see it when their own ‘kin’ shows them how

            note: im not saying we excuse crime – im saying we allow and encourage change for the better

            • Sam C 12.4.1.2.1.1

              A family? Yeah, a family that’s raison d’être is to deal drugs and operate outside the law. Sounds like a lovely family structure that we should be encouraging.

              • KJT

                A family, who have many older members who regret their earlier actions and are trying to avoid their young people going down the same path.

                Just like many families.

                We should be encouraging people like

              • Yes Sam family or whānau is what they are – in common with many other kin groupings. Just deal with it instead of fighting reality. my advice is to let go of your bigotry and hate.

              • framu

                “to take a view that they all think and act alike, and that there arent forces within seeking to change this “family” into something better simply denies reality

                kind of sad that theres people who would codemn both a family structure and a potential for change – two things that many young inmates need. ”

                actually read next time and get beyond your black/white mindset

            • Chuck 12.4.1.2.1.2

              “for many a gang is the only family structure theyve ever known, and just like any enormous family theres competing desires and factions”

              Yes framu you are correct to a degree. The gang in this case, Black Power is the FAMILY (that is above any other family connections, be it parents, brothers, sisters etc).

              Blood family in other rival gangs are just as much enemies as any other member.

              Don’t confuse family in the gang sense with family as you (and most others see it to be).

              • framu

                im not confusing it with what most call family – im saying that many who join gangs have no damn family at all to start with.

                • Chuck

                  They would be far better off to have no family if the only option was to be part of the Black Power (or any gang) family.

                  This type of family degrades them (as a prospect), teaches violence and to be brutal to your enemies (other gangs or anyone unlucky to get in the way). The only law is gang law.

        • Jeremy 12.4.1.3

          Is it illegal to be a member of a gang?

    • ianmac 12.5

      There are many patched members who have a wife and family and contribute help to the local school and community.
      Not all members of the National Party are bigots. Some live ordinary community lives.

      • Pat 12.5.1

        lol…very good

      • DoublePlusGood 12.5.2

        Nope, parasites and bludgers the lot of them. Their ‘community lives’ are just a cover for optics sake, so people don’t notice their privatisations and other criminal activity.

      • Chuck 12.5.3

        “There are many patched members who have a wife and family and contribute help to the local school and community.”

        No doubt…I know of some. Just as some mob hit men have family and kids etc…end of the day to be a patched member of Black Power (or other gangs) entails submission to gang law and order.

        Patched members leave most of the dirty work to wannabees…looking for their patch. Or they have a alliance with a local street gang…it helps to keep the senior members looking respectable to people like you ianmac.

        • mac1 12.5.3.1

          Chuck and Doubleplusgood,
          You may have missed ianmac’s sense of humour whereby the patched members to which he refers are members of that notorious gang, the National Party, some of whom contribute to their community……….

  13. framu 13

    collins entire argument rests on the “they might be recruiting” line

    now, who do you think is doing the recruiting in prison? – the single volunteer who is there for a few hours a day at best or the hundreds of members serving time?

    whats more important here? – reducing recidivism or making stands on who you associate with?

    The fact of gang membership is a separate issue to making attempts, using all the tools available, to reduce the numbers returning to prison. And the fact is, these guys have an ability to influence that the authorities simply do not posses

    • framu 13.1

      and i would add that stopping them entering prisons doesnt make them cease to exist or cease to influence – so we can choose who exerts influence, the ones who are really bad, or the ones trying to lead by example of their own changed lives

  14. Ad 14

    Hope Kelvin has the good sense to stay out of this one.

    Judith may well be enjoying the ride on the highway to hell, but there is a big fat zero of public sympathy for patched gang members.

    • Sabine 14.1

      but there is a big fat +1 of public support for patched gang members that have redeemed themselves and who are doing/ trying to do good.

      There is more then one old patched gang member in NZ that is trying to get the young ones not to follow in their path. If anything its not gonna be a corrupt to the core white politician that is going to do any good. Especially not Judith Collins. I don’t think this women has ever done anything good to someone else but herself and her husbands business.

      Nah, she just can’t help herself, telling the police and corrections how to do their job while on the best day she can’t do hers. (oh she knows how to enrich herself, but i doubt that anything she has ever done was for the betterment of society and New Zealand.)

    • Lanthanide 14.2

      He already went in initially saying he thought it wasn’t sensible for corrections to be allowing known gang members entry into prison. He said it in a way to distance himself from what Collins specifically was saying, though. He did make it clear that he didn’t know about the specifics of the case or the individual involved.

      He has now backed away from that, saying that since he has learned more, he thinks that such situations should be assessed on a case by case basis, since there would only be a handful in the country so it’s a perfectly sensible use of resources, as the payoff for up-standing people who can work with inmates in a positive manner is huge.

    • AmaKiwi 14.3

      Why is Nui an “unpaid volunteer” if he’s doing valuable re-hab for the community and the country? Can’t we at least afford to pay his expenses?

      Nope. It’s government policy to make payments only to the rich and corporate friends. If Nui’s work was privatized there’d be money available.

    • marty mars 14.4

      If davis has any guts he will stand up for his people instead of being a vote-crazed labourtoetheliner.

  15. Nck 15

    Quite a number of gang members are rotten bastards. Quite a number of politicians are rotten bastards. Gang members use violence because they don’t have money. Politicians use money because they can’t do violence. But both groups want the same thing…. Power and control over others. Collins motivation is power and control, right and wrong is irrelevant. She even feels the need to exercise power and control over a community volunteer, even at the expense of the good work he’s doing in one if the most challenging fields of them all…… She’s a sickening human being.

    • vto 15.1

      “Politicians use money because they can’t do violence.”

      Bullshit of the highest order

      The ONLY organisation in the lands legally able to use physical sanction is the state.

      The state uses violence to achieve its ends

      . . .

      and Collins uses verbal and social violence personally. Bitch

      • Nck 15.1.1

        @vto …… I mean Physical violence… Just to clarify.

        • vto 15.1.1.1

          So do I..

          What do you think happens if you refuse to accompany the police to court?

          The state uses an express violence to achieve its ends. If you don’t comply with the state it uses physical violence.

          Never forget this.

          The state relies on its own jackboots. Just like the gangs.

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1.1

            The US example makes it very clear, doesn’t it. Like that black guy shot in Minnesota.

      • KJT 15.1.2

        350 000 children in poverty is not violence?

        In New Zealand we have a gang, whose members are responsible for serial child abuse of over 350k children, dealing dangerous drugs, white collar fraud, stealing assets against their owners expressed opposition, and evading billions in tax.

        Black power should be ashamed of themselves. “Criminal gang!”.

        National makes them look like amateurs!

    • North 15.2

      NcK @15…….the most insightful and accurate comment of the thread NcK !

      I would add this. On a daily basis the Non-Man Key and Ugly Soul Collins do more violence to the people and the sovereignty of New Zealand than do whole chapters of Black Power. And what is more repugnant they cluck about it.

      I’ve heard the privately expressed view of a district court judge that right now we have the ingredients for broad civil unrest in New Zealand.

      That’s not down to gangs…….that’s down to power freak crooks the like of the Non-Man Key and Ugly Soul Collins. Whose loyalties are owed to foreign wealth. With the loyalty of foreign wealth reciprocated. See where that’s going ?

      • Sam C 15.2.1

        Wow. A District Court Judge. You’ve really got your finger of the pulse of the populace, Northy. Listen to yourself. What a tool.

    • KJT 15.3

      I have heard several gang members express regret and apologies for things they have done.

      I have never heard the same from any National party member.

  16. DLANZ Disabled Liberation Aotearoa NZ 16

    A shocking scenario of how National led Coalitions try to mask their own messes, BY BLAMING….it wouldn’t surprise me if Judith Collins herself ‘leaked’ the information to that Sensible (?) Sentencing Trust, when considering her affiliation with ‘Whale Oil’

    The Media are just playing into the web of National spin doctors who don’t care who they hurt in the drive for Power….there are more issues of importance (like poverty etc) they don’t want focused on in the Public Sphere.

    DLANZ tautoko support the Green Party call for Collins to say sorry to this man. Given her track record, alongside that gutless Paula Bennett over her leaking info, I doubt she will…..best is to vote this lot out now

    Keep smiling
    Doug Hay
    DLANZ Coordinator

  17. Collins seems adept at making an unedifying spectacle of herself. That said, if this guy were some Pakeha life member of a fascist White Power group who’d been counselling prisoners and was valued for his ability to connect with Pakeha, nobody on this thread would be talking him up as a top bloke (and Collins most likely wouldn’t have a problem with him).

    • mauī 17.1

      No, there are white gang members feeding the kids in the Waikato, and that is generally seen as a positive story.

    • Lanthanide 17.2

      Disagree. I think generally people on the left of politics will try and find the value and worth in any person. If they were actually making a genuine positive contribution to society, people on the left would be supportive of that, even if they may dislike other aspects of the personality of the person.

      • Molly 17.2.1

        ” I think generally people on the left of politics will try and find the value and worth in any person.”

        +100

      • instrider 17.2.2

        Ah that explains all those kind words standardistas keep posting on here about that John Key fellow, and some of the comments above about Judith Collins

        • McFlock 17.2.2.1

          you’re welcome to point out any positive contribution they’ve made to society.

          Hint: homeless children isn’t a positive

  18. Muttonbird 18

    Has the SST’s (not the Sunday Star Times) role on this been highlighted?

    I thought it was they who dobbed Mr Nui, etc in to Collins. I heard one of them ring in to Larry Williams the other night about it. Quite worked up he was.

  19. fisiani 19

    This post neatly sums up why the Left are losing.
    The Left, both Labour and Greens support the criminals.
    The Centre support the public
    The public therefore support the Centre.

    • Flame bait. Am I right, is this classic flame bait?
      Smells like it. No great art to it either. No depth, no value, no worth in addressing any of it’s pretend ‘points’.

    • What do you imagine Collins’ self-proclaimed concern for the effectiveness of rehabilitation services is, if not “supporting the criminals,” dingus?

      • Sabine 19.2.1

        that is called making money 🙂 Private Business Money greasing the National Party Posse that calls itself Government.

        An old patched member going to prison to telling the young ones how not to do it, and doing that on his own time and on his own dollar….now there is no cash to make for the Dear Mrs. Collins/Oravida and her Mates the National Party Posse called National led Government, thus it can’t be.
        Profit is the underlining principle of all that Mrs. Oravida does, and when some pesky old fellow patched gang member of the wrong pigmentation does something that would make her and her ideas look foolish than she must bring out the bat to knee cap that old fellow.

    • Stuart Munro 19.3

      Ok – but who supports the vile extreme lunatic fringe far rightwingers like you and the Key kleptocracy? You haven’t mentioned them at all – I guess the 1% and their media muppets aren’t worth mentioning.

    • Sabine 19.4

      bwhahahahahaha

      thanks i needed a laugh today.

      you funny!

  20. Is fisiani’s role to drop such bait into a discussion in order to redirect, to consume the time and energy of those genuinely debating the issue? Is it that simple? Any fool could do that. Where’s the art?

  21. Pardon my naivety, but Fisiani’s comments aren’t real, they’re not his/her real opinions, they’re simplistic tools designed to irritate and interrupt, like little prefabricated spanners he keeps in a bag to throw into the machinery of the discussion intermittently.
    What would he gain from doing that? Not personal satisfaction, his comments aren’t adroit or innovative, not something he’d look at and think, “Yeah! That’s a view they hadn’t seen coming!” It’s more like he’s going through the motions, as though he has a quota to fill.
    How boring for everyone else!

    • Reddelusion 21.1

      Really, possibly Fisiani state how the world is, you In turn, well I am not sure barring reality obviously hits a nerve with you when it pops your world view bubble

      • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1

        Fisiani has never stated how the world is. He can’t as he’s ideologically opposed to understanding how the world is. What he has stated is his beliefs and those are simply wrong.

        Same goes for you for that matter.

      • Robert Guyton 21.1.2

        Really? Fisiani’s not stating how the world is, he’s picked a statement that’s designed to irritate, that’s all. The content of his comments are not his real thoughts; you’d be deluded to believe they were, Reddelusion…oh! Hang on!

  22. Gangnam Style 22

    Serco have broken the law in the past & we give them prisons to profit from the misery of NZrs.

  23. Draco T Bastard 23

    Judith Collins a Better Gang Recruiter than Black Power

    As a result, between February 2014 and 2016, the remand population increased by approximately 40% and remand prisoners have accounted for around 90 per cent of the increase in the last year. Of those remanded in custody. That is where the increase in gang recruitment, and gang numbers is coming from. Of those remanded in custody, less than half will receive a custodial sentence. But, the harm has been done. Our sentencing and bail policies are promoting gang recruitment.

    “My advice is this. Stop blame-shifting. Prison volunteers are not the problem. Instead, do a comprehensive review of the increase in custodial remands and the bail laws. That is what is contributing to the growth in gang numbers in prison.”

    Sounds about right. National Party policy causing the rise in problems as per normal.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1

      Obviously the solution is to defund and ratfuck Kim Workman.

  24. instrider 24

    Good old Labour and its backers supporting the rapists and killers once again. Will you never learn?

    • So many Judith Collins supporters turned out for this post!
      They were far fewer though than those who turned out to support rational thought and reasoned debate.

    • McFlock 24.2

      You might want to provide a link to support your allegations against Mr Nui.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 24.3

      It’s the optics, innit.

      Collins knows that this will play well with right wing gutter trash (like you, for example), so she throws prisoner rehabilitation under a bus. The fact that this potentially worsens our already terrible recidivism rate, thereby causing more crime and more of the ‘victims’ who low life hypocritical right wing trash (just like you) pay such lip service to is immaterial.

      I understand the visceral reaction – Psycho Milt nailed it with his reference to right wing trash. My instinctive knee jerk response isn’t too far away – don’t care much for gangs of whatever stripe – and so what? We should abandon what works and pander to pathetic vengeance fantasies?

      You disgust me.

    • Stuart Munro 24.4

      Not like the Gnats with the Roastbusters eh?

      Step outside your prejudice & look at what the guy was doing – good work, and for free. Collins stopped it for a soundbite & you’re dumb enough to swallow it. But no-one who knows the real story is fooled for a moment.

  25. Jay 25

    Black Power are a criminal gang. They have a culture and history of violence, abuse of women and children, drug dealing, murder, and the veneration of criminal activity. Speak to the children and partners of black power members if you don’t believe me.

    Black Power members live by and from the proceeds of crime, and are an organised criminal gang. This man has not renounced his involvement with the same criminal gang.

    I’m in favour of former gang members working with prisoners, this man however continues to wear gang regalia. He is therefore still a gang member, not a former gang member.

    How many of you would think it acceptable for a person who wears white power regalia to visit prisons and be involved in a formal capacity with corrections? I’m guessing about none.

    Corrections cannot and should not ever be seen to be involved with members of organised criminal gangs, a group that our country rightly denounces. I expect that once Ms Collins got wind of it he was axed, and rightly so.

    This hypocrite is supposed to be a venerated leader, not a card carrying member of a gang whose activities (not the least of which is dealing methamphetamine), cause incalculable harm to the same community he supposedly cares so much about.

    Here’s the message, cut all ties with criminals or expect to be judged by the company you keep.

    For anyone to think otherwise is plainly wrong-headed

    • One Anonymous Bloke 25.1

      Meanwhile, on Earth, there are ways to reduce the potential for criminal recidivism, and therefore the crime rate and consequent pain and misery in the community.

      The fact that you seek to stroke your little vengeance fantasy instead makes you a part of the problem. Yes, it does. I don’t care whether you understand this or not because I’ve had seven shades of a gutsful of “I reckon” as a guide to penal or any other public policy.

      Grow the fuck up.

    • Tag
      Team
      Same moves, different togs.

      • Pasupial 25.2.1

        RG

        At least Jay can type a coherent paragraph, which is more than you can say for Fisiani or Reddelusion. Yes, they are capable of wasting a lot off space with their reactionary nonsense, but silence will be taken to indicate assent. Think of the sisyphean task of contradicting them as a form of vermin control.

        As regards Jay’s denial of any social role for gangs; does that not rather force them into criminality than act as deterrence? Rehabilitation does seem the better option.

        Jones (12.1.something above) puts the reason why having separation from the gang as a precondition to social acceptance is doomed to failure:

        I think the purpose of a gang is to provide protection for their members from other gangs. Additionally members often derive psychological benefits of recognition and respect from belonging.

        • Gangnam Style 25.2.1.1

          “abuse of women” they like to wheel this one out, yet the National Govt send sheep & bribes to the freekin’ Saudis, ever looked at how they treat women over there? This disconnect, this people in power being hypocrites, paying lip service to laws (John Banks) is the reason why we have gangs, its to counter the imbalance of power.

          Basically Collins is telling all those present gang members there is no redemption, she just set off a ticking time bomb, a fuse, she’s just ensuring future profits for Serco.

        • Draco T Bastard 25.2.1.2

          As regards Jay’s denial of any social role for gangs; does that not rather force them into criminality than act as deterrence? Rehabilitation does seem the better option.

          QFT

        • Robert Guyton 25.2.1.3

          Not silence, Parsupial, I’m for talking about them, not to them or their wrenches. It’s their commonality that reveals their drivers. Today’s tag team were repeating the same line.

      • Sam C 25.2.2

        Well, until you figure out that most of middle NZ are not interested in defending a part of society which deals in hurt and pain, you’ll be forever consigned to this echo chamber of circle jerking. Black Power are scum.

    • Draco T Bastard 25.3

      I’m in favour of former gang members working with prisoners, this man however continues to wear gang regalia.

      Pics or it didn’t happen.

      • Gangnam Style 25.3.1

        “abuse of women” CHCH Rape Crisis centre was closed because lack of (Nat) Govt funding.

        “Pics or it didn’t happen.” – yeah, didn’t happen, but whats a provocative lie between friends.

    • Repateet 25.4

      I spotted “This hypocrite is supposed to be a venerated leader” just after I saw “Ms Collins” and thought it was about her regular reply to questions about things: These are “operational matters which I don’t have anything to do with.”

      Is she going to declare she didn’t interfere with “operational matters” in this case?

    • KJT 25.5

      In New Zealand we have a gang,
      whose members are responsible for serial child abuse of over 350k children, dealing dangerous drugs, white collar fraud, child abuse, underage sex, stealing assets against their owners expressed opposition, lying to the public, using their positions to further their own money making business, and evading billions in tax.

      Here is a message to those with ties to the National/ACT party.

      “You will be judged by the company you keep”.

  26. NZJester 26

    Collins is friends people far worse than Mr Nui.
    She is a well known acquaintance of serial law breaker Cameron Slater for instance.
    Mr Slater has bragged about his contacts in the underworld.

  27. Philj 27

    When a good person is judged by authority to be bad, collectively we will find ourselves in an Orwellian world of fear and distrust. A perilous predicament.

    • Reddelusion 27.1

      If a person belongs to a criminal organisation that imposes violence and drugs on their community how are they suppose to be judged. I am not sure what subjective reality you are living in but this is simply a fact

  28. Maryanne Harrison 28

    Unbelievable

  29. Chris 29

    What’s Key doing to Collins in that photo? Trying to eat her hair?

  30. reason 30

    Roastbusters.

    Does anyone believe that no charges would have been laid and no police officers sacked if Helen Clark was Prime minister???

    Roastbusters not raided under national………..Nicky Hager raided under national.

    Dirty and corrupt is the new law and order.

    It took two brave children who are not even old enough to vote to save New Zealand from our popular tax haven building prime minister promoting the most slimy creepy thing to crawl out of the New Zealand police force since Clint Rickards into the position that Judith Collins is now abusing. ….

    Two kids stopped NZ police stations becoming rape stations again ….. as they used to be in the 80’s & 90’s …. until the bravery of Lousie Nicholls brought that to a ( temporary ?) halt.

    Key should be in jail and collins should be double bunked with him ……………….

    I’m often so proud of young new zealanders …….. and disgusted by nationals corruption.

    • Ross 30.1

      So you’re saying that Clark poked her nose into operational matters? Alas, you might be right. She came out publicly castigating Clint Rickards before he was acquitted at his two trials. She must have hated that he might have been innocent.

      • Ross 30.1.1

        However, in this case Collins is trying to act tough. I suspect she’s making it clear that she wants the top job when Key resigns.

  31. reason 31

    Everyone knows clint rickards is a bent pack raping dirt bag.

    The only reason he got off was because the police did not lay conspiracy charges against him and his pack raping police buddies ……….. who did go to jail.

    They were conspiring to rape and if all the evidence was heard instead of being hidden from the jury he would have been convicted and justice would have been done.

    At least I now know your a sick fuck Ross ………… thanks for showing us what you support.

    Rapist And Tax havens ………… good national party stuff.

    • reason 31.1

      are you a racist to ?

      Judith sure is …………..

    • Ross 31.2

      Clearly, you know more than those who sat on the jury. It’s a pity they didn’t have the benefit of your vast knowledge. Anyway, this is about Judith Collins…

  32. Ross said:

    “So you’re saying that Clark…”
    “She came out …”
    “She must have…”

    “Anyway, this is about Judith Collins…”

    • Ross 32.1

      Yes, Robert, I was replying to the previous poster who went off topic.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 32.1.1

        Hypocrisy and rape apology. I expect you haven’t plumbed your depths yet though.

  33. Simon J Lambert 33

    I met Ngapari several years ago, in fact hosted him and whanaunga at our house in Christchurch (in preparation for a hui on mahinga kai). He was unfailingly polite and courteous and was obviously a respected member of his community. White middle-class NZ has so little contact with people like Ngapari, but for a Minister to react to this fear is appalling leadership.

  34. reason 34

    Ok ….lets go full circle and back to my first post on crusher Collins and her corrupt ‘Dirty Politics gang’… the NAct ones who help promote Alcohol while spreading racism …..and how she in particular had a prominent role in neutering the Alcohol law review recommendations to lower alcohol abuse ……..

    Going from memory she was our most corrupt ever modern justice minister at the time of drafting the nats pro booze laws and …. at one stage she was reported as having met liquor reps 9 times versus health professionals once …. her good friend whalesoil and rats like Peter Dunne were going to war on health professionals who were labeled ‘wowsers’, puritanical, nany-state etc

    The drug industry who make money selling the Roastbusters their stupefying tools of trade won out with Judith …. self reg rulze for RTDs ….. kids like it strong.

    Who really paid though ??????

    “Children, young people, Māori, Pacific Peoples and those living in more deprived neighbourhoods are among those that experience a disproportionate burden of harm from alcohol, 1,8”
    .

    It seems when senior police are retiring they are more free to speak out and tell the truth :….

    “Picture the veteran homicide detective – grizzled, gloomy, jaded after years dealing with humanity’s worst, most hopeless cases.

    Retiring this week after 42 years with the police, Drew is optimistic about humanity …

    He later worked in the car squad, fraud squad, drug squad, undercover programmes, and as Wairarapa area commander.

    “We had a series of cases that became quite high-profile, where the treatment of the child had been dreadful.

    “Not just that the child had been beaten and killed, but the treatment, ongoing for a long time, had been dreadful.

    Just as Kiwis were capable of changing attitudes to child abuse, Drew says maybe another debate is needed around the most common cause of preventable crimes.

    A constant over 42 years, he says, has been the role of booze in making otherwise reasonable people do crazy things.”

    ***********************************************************

    It IS racist to ignore who gets hurt the most by national siding with the Alcohol drug industry …

    The forgotten ( national party )victims

    One of the biggest costs of family violence is the impact it has on the children who witness it.

    In fact, last year 70% of child abuse cases were also family violence-related, Police sources told Police News.

    Just over half of all family violence cases attended by police involve children being present.

    Last year alone, 74,785 children and young people aged under-17 were present at family violence situations.

    “The impact family violence has on children is profound. There have been a lot of studies which show that children who witness family violence have a higher chance of juvenile delinquency and young adult criminality, and also a higher chance of future victimisation,”

    “New Zealand has one of the highest rates of all forms of violence among OECD countries”

    The burden falls inequitably on those living in low socioeconomic areas,and Māori and Pacific people.

    Finally Nicky Hager has featured in a few of my posts …. as Nickys book Dirty Politics exposes the true face of this cruel racist government and explains their abuses of power and the way they operate ………thanks to Nickys book we know that they did a trade-mark Dirty Politics operation for the booze industry…..

    Nicky is a good guy and unlike Collins actually cares and supports things like this despairing Doctor was asking the Government to help with ..

    “Providing the best possible environment for children to grow to maturity is a key goal for every community.”
    – Dr Nick Baker”

    10,000 good men like Ngapari Nui could not repair the damage or stem violent crime rates that Judith has had a hand in keeping high ………………

    http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/sites/default/files/projectAvailableFormats/NZLC%20IP15.pdf

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    4 days ago
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    4 days ago
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    4 days ago
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  • How to Factory Reset iPhone without Computer: A Comprehensive Guide to Restoring your Device
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  • How to Call Someone on a Computer: A Guide to Voice and Video Communication in the Digital Age
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  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #16 2024
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  • Justice Minister to attend Human Rights Council
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  • Patterson reopens world’s largest wool scouring facility
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    10 hours ago
  • Speech to the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective Summit, 18 April 2024
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    11 hours ago
  • Government to introduce revised Three Strikes law
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    12 hours ago
  • New diplomatic appointments
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    12 hours ago
  • Humanitarian support for Ethiopia and Somalia
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    12 hours ago
  • Arts Minister congratulates Mataaho Collective
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    1 day ago
  • Supporting better financial outcomes for Kiwis
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  • Trade relationship with China remains strong
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  • PM’s South East Asia mission does the business
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  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
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  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
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  • Judicial appointments announced
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  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
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  • Value of stopbank project proven during cyclone
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  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
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    4 days ago
  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
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  • Taupō takes pole position
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    4 days ago
  • Government backing mussel spat project
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    5 days ago
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    5 days ago
  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
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    5 days ago
  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
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    5 days ago
  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
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    5 days ago
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    5 days ago
  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
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    6 days ago
  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
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    6 days ago
  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
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    6 days ago
  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
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    7 days ago
  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
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    7 days ago
  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
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    7 days ago
  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
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    7 days ago
  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
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    1 week ago
  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
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    1 week ago
  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
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    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
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    1 week ago
  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
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  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
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    1 week ago

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