Lift the refugee quota

69 comments on “Lift the refugee quota ”

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1. Charles 1

   23 June 2015 at 8:29 am

   Well it’s a wider problem: the only reason you’d want to come here if you were poor, not white, and didn’t speak English, was if the alternative was death by drowning. We have wealth distribution issues (gosh, and race issues, and just about everything else) to deal with first – elect a socially responsible government first, then let them raise the quota. Key and his mates will just draw out the potential poverty of refugees (on one extreme) and breed desperate greed in them (on the other extreme) which doesn’t help anyone. If a boat was drifting somewhere in the Tasman, we should go get it for humanitarian reasons, and keep the occupants as citizens, but asking Key’s style of government to raise quotas isn’t responsible.
2. Gosman 2

   23 June 2015 at 8:42 am

   Set up a charity to help integrate and resettle the additional refugees and get funding from private sources then you will have a much stronger case. Unless you just expect other people to pay for what you want to happen.
   • marty mars 2.1

     23 June 2015 at 9:29 am

     other people pay for lots of things gossie – at least this would be worthwhile and help actual people that need help rather than the fatcats slurping up their cream
     • Gosman 2.1.1

       23 June 2015 at 9:59 am

       What are YOU doing to help Refugees ? Are you volunteering at your local resettlement center?
       • marty mars 2.1.1.1

         23 June 2015 at 10:02 am

         I’m countering your crap on the interwebs – that is how I’m helping TODAY.
         • Tracey 2.1.1.1.1

           23 June 2015 at 10:06 am

           😀
   • Draco T Bastard 2.2

     23 June 2015 at 10:40 am

     Charities have never worked well which is why we built up our Welfare State which the inhumane are presently tearing down so as to further enrich the already rich.
   • Colonial Rawshark 2.3

     23 June 2015 at 10:56 am

     Unless you just expect other people to pay for what you want to happen.

     Who did you pay to teach you to read and write as a five year old, shit head?
   • Hateatea 2.4

     23 June 2015 at 11:07 am

     Charities are actually an inefficient way to deliver most services as a disproportionate amount of time, effort and resources is spent on applying for funding to be able to perform the charitable purpose.

     It is also exploitative of the goodwill of volunteers.

     Many charities in this country are struggling to attract sufficient volunteers as more and more people are working longer hours or more than one job to keep themselves and their families. Where once upon a time it was the wives and mothers, retirees and the clergy who were the backbone of many worthy causes this is not necessarily the case in many areas of this country.

     A properly funded organisation would be more appropriate and efficient but I wouldn’t expect this to happen given the current philosophies en vogue in Government.
3. ianmac 3

   23 June 2015 at 9:14 am

   Perhaps Farrar polling shows Key that most people are disinterested in bringing poor refugees to NZ. He would be on safe ground to be dismissive. In his mind anyway!
   • cogito 3.1

     23 June 2015 at 9:40 pm

     Not all refugees are poor (or uneducated). Think of Ahmed Zaoui, for instance.
4. Rosie 4

   23 June 2015 at 9:16 am

   Thanks Anthony.

   We have many reasons to be ashamed of ourselves here in lil’ ol NZ and our low refugee quota is one of them.

   A compassionate government would raise it.
   • Gosman 4.1

     23 June 2015 at 9:44 am

     A compassionate group of people would set up a charity to support Refugees and look to get funding for it before expecting the Government to do this. Are you going to put your time and money where your keyboard warrior hands are?
     • Tracey 4.1.1

       23 June 2015 at 10:04 am

       so, if someone is spread thin, working their job, bringing up the family and maybe supporting a couple of charities, and don’t have time to volunteer or set up a charity for everything they think is important, they should shut up? Interesting philosophy Gosman, makes me wonder how you have the nerve to write anything about Greece or Venezuela, what with you not being prepared to DO anything about it, like go to Germany and exhort them to take one for the great economic system and not relent to Greece, or go to Venezuela to explain to them how wrong they are and how much better they would be under your system?
       • marty mars 4.1.1.1

         23 June 2015 at 10:06 am

         hey unfair – he’s thinking about thinking about setting up a charity lol
         • dukeofurl 4.1.1.1.1

           23 June 2015 at 10:13 am

           Perhaps they could be some sort of ‘social bonds’ so that people with an eye on the bottom line can ‘invest too’

           Bring in some financial intermediaries like …like Gosman and they would be away laughing.
       • Gosman 4.1.1.2

         23 June 2015 at 10:09 am

         I write about Venezuela and Greece because they are illustrative of the failure of left wing economics. I am not wanting anybody to do anything. I merely highlight that the Greeks or Venezuelans will be forced by economic reality to follow policies I support or they will be much worse off than they are now. This article wants the Government to increase funding dramatically for Refugees yet I see little in the way of people stumping up their own time and money to help as well. It is easy to be compassionate when it doesn’t cost you anything.
         • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2.1

           23 June 2015 at 10:43 am

           I write about Venezuela and Greece because they are illustrative of the failure of left wing economics.

           Actually, they’re proof of the failure of right-wing economics – the delusion that if we make the rich richer then everyone will be better off. What really happens is that the nations that do that fall into bankruptcy with extremes of poverty and wealth – exactly as we’re now seeing around the world including NZ.
         • dukeofurl 4.1.1.2.2

           23 June 2015 at 10:50 am

           Please !
           As a student of capitalism you should know that failure is part of the system. Most of the big companies of 75 years ago have failed over time as you capitalists would have predicted.
           Was General Motors a soft left wing institution all along ?
           Yet when they did go bankrupt the people who held unsecured bonds got next to nothing.
           From memory face value was $27 billion and they got 10% of the new GM stock., maybe less than 5% back. Happens all the time , take the risker lending and expect to lose your shirt.

           Greeces problem, is that they owe too much, and the looses Europes banks will take when they get back up to 10% of face value is too much to bear.

           You have this idea that borrowing too much money is ‘left wing economics’, well then our own example of TV3.
           First it was a private equity buyout, which is OK, but they got bank money to load up with debt on the scale of Greece- plus Ironbridge didnt have to pay back the money they borrowed when they couldnt pay the interest.
           The lenders got shares instead, so they took it on the chin and offloaded the shares /debt to Oaktree, who will try to stitch it up to sell off and make some money. Fat chance.
           • Gosman 4.1.1.2.2.1

             23 June 2015 at 11:00 am

             The failure of companies like General Motors under Capitalism is evidence of the strength of the system not it’s weakness.
         • Colonial Rawshark 4.1.1.2.3

           23 June 2015 at 10:59 am

           I write about Venezuela and Greece because they are illustrative of the failure of left wing economics.

           They are targets of rapacious neoliberal capitalism.

           The IMF is more than willing to keep giving Ukraine money, even though Ukraine is outright defaulting on its IMF payments.

           For Greece, the IMF will give nothing.

           This is nothing but the politics of control, power and subjugation, by the power elite.
           • Gosman 4.1.1.2.3.1

             23 June 2015 at 11:01 am

             The IMF has given Billions and Billions to Greece.
             • Colonial Rawshark …

               23 June 2015 at 11:07 am

               Don’t take us for fools Gosman. The IMF has lent billions and billions to Greece which immediately got put into the deep pockets at Deutschebank and other private holders of Greek bonds.
             • Nigel …

               23 June 2015 at 11:19 am

               The IMF money is primarily to pay the banks that lied about the Greek financial position to allow EU membership. Followed up by huge loans with no hope of repayment.
               How ironic that suddenly these same institutions have gotten the religion of financial prudence.
               Those loans will never be paid, the question is only one of how much squeezing of the Greek population (for interest payments, not principal) can occur before they default.
               Of course the ECB will bail out those banks that made risky loans to Greece as they always expected.

               What a load of cobblers that the Greek situation in any way reflects on the poor people of Greece. To make this a Left/Right argument is disingenuous.

               Tax avoidance by the wealthy in Greece is a national pastime, as it is to a lesser degree right here at home….

               Cheers
               • Tracey …

                 23 June 2015 at 12:54 pm

                 “Tax avoidance by the wealthy in Greece is a national pastime, as it is to a lesser degree right here at home….” as it is in all capitalist-hybrid nations, including ours. So having shitloads of money doesn’t make you any more disposed to abide by the rules set for everyone else.
             • Tracey …

               23 June 2015 at 12:52 pm

               a gift you say? That’s odd, so they are not wanting any of it back?
         • s y d 4.1.1.2.4

           23 June 2015 at 11:08 am

           Yo Gosman, rather than set up a charity, I would prefer that the government didn’t use my taxes to train another nations armed forces who by their actions will create more refugees.
           We could always stop doing that and find an alterntive use for the funds currently spent overseas – maybe we could help with resettling more refugees?
           • Tracey 4.1.1.2.4.1

             23 June 2015 at 12:53 pm

             ^^^ this
           • Gosman 4.1.1.2.4.2

             23 June 2015 at 5:48 pm

             I suppose you think that if IS wins there will be no refugee problem then. Is that correct?
             • Colonial Rawshark …

               23 June 2015 at 7:14 pm

               Hey Gosman the more you fight ISIS the stronger it gets. The US reckons it has killed up to 15,000 ISIS fighters now, except ISIS only used to have 15,000 fighters. But it’s still going strong as ever.

               Grow a brain.
               • infused …

                 24 June 2015 at 12:26 am

                 Cool. Lets just leave them then eh?
         • Tracey 4.1.1.2.5

           23 June 2015 at 12:52 pm

           Yes, i a nutshell you “speak” and wait for the world to catch up with your genius because your way is the only way (even though you vote for a party that props up a system you claim to not want) We noticed that Gosman, it’s not a secret. And you do it without any self righteousness or know-it-all ness. Well done.
     • Rosie 4.1.2

       23 June 2015 at 10:23 am

       Yes, they already have Gosman, and you would have noticed that if you had read Anthony’s post:

       http://www.wagepeacenz.org/

       So, you think it’s desirable that our government dump it’s social responsibilities on to NGO’s? (Ala social bonds, the profit driven incentive for mental health care and job placement of “clients”).
       Are you not in the least, a little embarrassed about our indifference to suffering given other countries are taking in large numbers?

       Eg; Italy:

       “In the first seven months of 2014, more than 87,000 people arrived in Italy by sea, mainly from Eritrea and the Syrian Arab Republic (Syria). In an effort to reduce the risks linked to such journeys, in October 2013 the Italian Government launched the Mare Nostrum operation, which has rescued more than 100,000 people. Greece and Spain also recorded an increase in arrivals.”

       http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e48e996.html

       And don’t tell me what I should be doing. You have no idea what non paid work I do in my life
5. marty mars 5

   23 June 2015 at 9:26 am

   frankly if we care very little about others in need then we should expect the same when we need help and we will need that help – but the ones that love fortressnz will be the first in line for help, crying and pleading for their loved ones and themselves and forgetting how callous they were when others asked.

   Increase the help we give refugees
6. vto 6

   23 June 2015 at 10:12 am

   “some people make poor lifestyle choices”
7. Save NZ 7

   23 June 2015 at 10:16 am

   Change NZ Foreign Policy to help prevent the burgeoning refugee crisis….

   All these bomb and wars, hello the locals are trying to get away….
   • s y d 7.1

     23 June 2015 at 11:04 am

     That is the rub.
     You would think Gosman would try to be a clifftop fence rather than a charitable ambulance.
8. Sable 8

   23 June 2015 at 10:25 am

   The reality is there are people migrating to NZ every day who for whatever reason may or may not be a good fit for this country. Its more appropriate to talk in terms of ensuring the vetting process is of a high standard rather than banging on about people who will never get this far South.

   Yet another attempted public diversion from National…..
9. Save NZ 9

   23 June 2015 at 10:28 am

   Even Winston believes it is too low

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11451314
   • Old Mickey 9.1

     23 June 2015 at 11:11 am

     That’s a shame, with Winston’s support that’s a dead giveaway that nothing will change anytime soon. This is a topic not suitable for gotcha politics, and it would be nice to see some reasoned debate in the house rather than the usual “does the minister stand by all his statements”.
10. peter 10

    23 June 2015 at 10:59 am

    Increasing our refugee quota will make zero fifference to this huge problem. How about putting our energies into lobbying the rich nations, like the Gulf States, to take up their responsilities as humans. It seems only the countries that are predominantly white and with a Christian background have even the slightest regard for helping others.
    • r0b 10.1

      23 June 2015 at 11:36 am

      Increasing our refugee quota will make zero fifference to this huge problem.

      And it will make the world of difference to 250 lives.
    • Tracey 10.2

      23 June 2015 at 12:55 pm

      send 150 soldiers could be argued as not making any difference, putting less than 1% into the new asian bank won’t make any difference, and yet, and yet, this government does that.

      It will make 100% difference to those humans we accept over the current limit
    • Colonial Rawshark 10.3

      23 June 2015 at 7:16 pm

      Hey Peter you heartless wretch, how dare you even claim a shred of Christianity as your own when you yourself have fuck all “regard for helping others.”
11. Rolf 11

    23 June 2015 at 12:40 pm

    The readers need to be aware that 99% of these so called refugees are not fleeing any unrest, they are simply illegal immigrants that want to take advantage of our generous welfare. Genuine refugees have a certain right to protection, but not free welfare on others expense. Do like Australia, send them to other countries like PNG where they can build their new life, and support them in doing so. Europe has been overrun by false refugees, murder, crime, street shootings, fraud, street rape has become the result. Learn from others mistake.
    • vto 11.1

      23 June 2015 at 12:47 pm

      it is a globalised world in absolutely every single sense except people movement….. people should be able to go wherever they want like money can, like junk can, like armies can, like weapons can, like movies can, like the internet can, like … the list goes on

      let the people go wherever they want

      this is the free market brought to its ultimate conclusion

      bring it on
      • greywarshark 11.1.1

        23 June 2015 at 7:46 pm

        @vto +1

        Rolf you stay true to form. You always say things that make any moral person feel uncomfortable to share the page with you. If peoples iives are continually being disrupted by fighting and destruction of their houses and gardens then they are forced to flee. if they want to live, want to protect their children from injury, death, rape or enforced service for a vile and degenerate band then they must abandon their homeland and seek a place for themselves somewhere else on earth.

        NZ is part of the military and political group causing much of the problem. It is only fair that we accept part of the human fallout from our machinations.
    • Tracey 11.2

      23 June 2015 at 12:56 pm

      “that 99% of these so called refugees are not fleeing any unrest”

      which refugees, do you mean the ones on the boats that aren’t coming here? Or others?
    • Tracey 11.3

      23 June 2015 at 12:59 pm

      “Europe has been overrun by false refugees, murder, crime, street shootings, fraud, street rape has become the result”

      Cos Europe had been inhabited by humans for a few hundred years with no murder, crime, street shootings, fraud, street rape. It only started with illegal migrants.

      🙄

      Is it ok to send murderers, criminals, street rapists and shooters to PNG instead of here or Australia?
      • peter 11.3.1

        23 June 2015 at 1:57 pm

        It is sad but true that we simply cannot let these people in. Most are good people fleeing bad situations, but letting them in just drags our own economy and social structure down.

        We or rather that pathetic body of crooks called the UN should be pressuring the despotic regimes and the bigotted selfish religions ike Myanmar and Buddhism to reduce the pressure for these people to want or need to leave. Go to the sour e 9f he problem, not putting a band aid on the symptoms.
        • Macro 11.3.1.1

          23 June 2015 at 2:43 pm

          What a load of utter tosh!

          Have you any credible evidence that refugees will “drag our economy and social structures down”, or is that your obvious racial prejudice speaking? Do you know any people in this country who have arrived here as refugees? Obviously not – because if you were to actually do some investigation of just how well these people have integrated and worked in our society, you would never have written such a stupid thing.
          • peter 11.3.1.1.1

            23 June 2015 at 3:00 pm

            When someone has to resort to abuse a d personal attacks, it is THAT person who has both a stupidity and lack of knowledge a d confidence in their own thoughts and arguments. Please refrain from your racist and vacuous and abusive rants.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 11.3.1.1.1.1

              23 June 2015 at 3:28 pm

              Yes, because projecting your own ethics onto refugees is totes legit.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 11.3.1.1.1.2

              23 June 2015 at 3:31 pm

              PS: Macro makes no remarks about you personally – learn the difference between criticising your racist behaviour and a personal attack.

              “You wrote an idiotic racist comment” is different from “you are a racist idiot”, whether or not both statements are true.
            • Colonial Rawshark 11.3.1.1.1.3

              23 June 2015 at 7:16 pm

              Hey peter you fucker

              Inhumans like you should be escorted on to a small island and kept there. Preferably not one of the ones belonging to NZ.
            • greywarshark 11.3.1.1.1.4

              23 June 2015 at 7:53 pm

              It’s a shame Peter that people take notice of the tosh you write, and get all excited. You are quite right that people shouldn’t resort to personal attacks.
              The way you should be treated, is to be ignored until you learn to apply your mind to reality and accept we have to care about each other if we are to function as highly intelligent and knowledgable moral people. We also need to accept responsibility for our actions in taking part in wars and being complicit in damage to others’ lives.
              • infused …

                24 June 2015 at 12:29 am

                You will find it is a view backed by a lot of New Zealanders. And you only have to watch the EU to see how this is all playing out.
                • One Anonymous Bloke …

                  24 June 2015 at 7:15 am

                  When you look at Europe, you look at it through your little piggy centre right eyes, distorted by hate-speech and ignorance.

                  Please add some links so we know exactly what you’re blithering about.
                • miravox …

                  24 June 2015 at 8:32 am

                  Trying to compare the European situation with a couple of percent increase in numbers for NZ is not really relevant.

                  Compare – World bank data shows NZ accepted 1,403 refugees (2010-14 data) .

                  Austria accepted 55,598 in the same period. NZ would be having to take in around 20,000 over that period to make somewhere near a fair comparison (Austria pop 8.4 million).

                  These figures have substantially increased this year, more than 10,000 people filed for asylum in the first three months of this year. In May alone nearly 300 people per week sought refuge. We see some of these poor people queuing up early in the morning for their papers at the police admin centre down the road from us.

                  Even doubling the 750 NZ has agreed to accept is not going to come anywhere near the situation in Europe.

                  Totally invalid, fear-mongering, comparison there infused.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.4

      23 June 2015 at 3:27 pm

      We’ll just have to take Rolf’s word for it that his ‘concern’ is based in reality, as opposed to racism and hate.

      Oh, who am I kidding – bigots waste no opportunity to spread their vile prejudice. Rolf is no exception.
      • peter 11.4.1

        23 June 2015 at 3:33 pm

        Opposing illegal immigrant on economic and social grounds is being bigotted and racist? In my experience patronizing attitudes are the most racist positions of all.
        • One Anonymous Bloke 11.4.1.1

          23 June 2015 at 3:44 pm

          they are simply illegal immigrants that want to take advantage of our generous welfare…Europe has been overrun by false refugees, murder, crime, street shootings, fraud, street rape has become the result.

          I’m sure you see this as the simple truth; to me it looks like a sort of insecurity blankie, a fog of prejudice caused by ignorance and stupidity in equal measures.

          “Illegal immigration” is a revealing frame, too. I thought we used to criticise the USSR for its closed borders and yet here you are, setting up gulags.
12. Scintilla 12

    23 June 2015 at 3:07 pm

    One of these days some powerful country is going to decide that NZ is relatively empty of people and just perfect for whoever they wish to resettle. They might be refugees from war-torn countries, or maybe just surplus population they don’t want anymore, kind of like how Australia was the penal colony for those who committed some heinous crime such as stealing food, or the master’s new boots. Maybe they will be the rich and entitled escaping climate change and setting up a new life down here.

    I wonder what our response will be?
    • Puckish Rogue 12.1

      23 June 2015 at 3:49 pm

      Yeah nah, Australia would move to block not because they want to but more because Australia would see any invasion of NZ as a base to invade Australia

      Australia would then be backed up by the US so while its not impossible (after all the largest moslem country in the world isn’t that far away) its pretty damn unlikely
    • Colonial Rawshark 12.2

      23 June 2015 at 3:50 pm

      Our politicians will sell them the country at a discount rate
      • Scintilla 12.2.1

        23 June 2015 at 10:04 pm

        Yes, i suspect Australia would certainly act in his own interests, please let it not happen while Abbott is PM! We are very handy as the long term food farm next door. Australia/USA might see us as a useful refugee camp easily able to absorb 5 million people – and think of the economic growth! Massive opps for rentier lifestylers. Pretty sure JK’s Mates Rates will apply for those poised to profit from such a scheme.

        Doubling (or more) of our current population would transform our current society, which may be refreshing (like to think it could be great), but it could also become something else entirely. And there’s the rub. ‘Live and let live’ is my motto, but that motto is not shared by probably the majority of people on the planet. I loathe the idea that a more prescriptive, restrictive, suffocating values system might be imposed alongside more of the exploitative, resource pillaging, surveilled and stupidised twattery we already endure.

        It’s still possible to live on the fringe in NZ and follow your own path, but that space is quietly diminishing – that’s the freedom I fight to keep.
13. Ad 13

    23 June 2015 at 9:01 pm

    I’d feel a whole lot more comfortable about more refugees if we were allowed a broader debate about the total number and skill level of immigrants allowed into New Zealand in any one year. I’m not asking for an annual referendum on quotes. I’m asking for a decent debate about how fast immigration is changing the entire country, let alone Auckland.
    • cogito 13.1

      23 June 2015 at 10:16 pm

      Better to have more well screened refugees of good character allowed into NZ than some current migrants who buy their way into NZ and then turn us into tenants in our own country.
      • Ad 13.1.1

        24 June 2015 at 10:21 am

        Disagree.
        Asians are over 23% of Auckland’s population.
        Chinese and Indians in particular have provided spectacular dynamism and wealth and confidence into Auckland over two decades. Asians are not foreigners here. They are us.

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