Lost the Plot

Written By: - Date published: 6:05 pm, September 8th, 2015 - 92 comments
Categories: International, nz first, politicans, Syria, war, winston peters - Tags: , ,

How do you deal with a war situation that’s leading to millions of fleeing refugees?

According to Winston Peters, you put a gun in the hands of all the male refugees and send them back.

Brilliant.

92 comments on “Lost the Plot ”

  1. sabine 1

    just what is it?

    why?

  2. Thinking Right 2

    A little unusual I guess however he does have a point that there appear to be a lot of healthy single males leading the charge into Europe – you have to wonder about the fate of their families left behind.

    I wondered where Winston was in relation to this. Usually on matters involving any form of migrants he is pretty quick to throw in his 5 cents worth.

    • ” you have to wonder about the fate of their families left behind.”

      maybe they have been killed

    • Bill 2.2

      Idiot. If they wanted to learn how to kill, they wouldn’t have left in the first place.

      • weka 2.2.1

        there is a real problem here though, because if healthy men leave a war zone when they can, how are we going to have enough fodder for wars in subsequent generations if the men don’t man up and be manly now? Not the best role models.

        • Ad 2.2.1.1

          Key has signaled that Immigration staff over to the camps to do proper profiling checks on all of them, male and female. Those files will need to be done thoroughly, or we are going to have 600 Ahmed Zaoui cases testing our legal system.

          Refugee Status Appeals Authority is in for a workout.

          • Bill 2.2.1.1.1

            Why profile?

            Germany has just said (reported in The Guardian) it will take 500 000 people per year. Now. Out of that 500 000, a few may well be traumatised in such a way that they’ll do something really fucked up at some point in the future.

            But of 500 000 new borns, a fair few do something really fucked up in their life.

            My point is this. No person seeking refugee status is doing so in order to blow people up; not one. If *you* want to enter a country to blow people up, there are other, far quicker and easier ways to enter a country.

            Given that then, what the fuck would immigration be profiling for?

          • Mike the Savage One 2.2.1.1.2

            Yes, you raise a very valid point. There has been much “emotion” and emotional outpouring, particularly once we got presented the shocking pictures of a dead, drowned toddler called Aylan Kurdi. After some time has come to pass, many tend to be a bit wiser about what may or may not have happened. Here we have plenty of “anecdotal” proof, which appears to be more than anecdotal though, that some refugees may not deserve to be given refugee status, no matter how much they plea in front of cameras:

            http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/11/us-europe-migrants-turkey-iraq-idUSKCN0RB2BE20150911

            I am disturbed by this, as it will not assist the honest refugees. But we have to accept, things are not always as they may appear.

            No wonder now, that the father of the dead child has chosen to go back to formerly ISIS occupied Kobane in Syria of all places, to spend his days by the graves of his kids and wife. Had he stayed in Europe or Turkey, he would likely be charged and put up before a court by now.

    • joe90 2.3

      you have to wonder about the fate of their families left behind.

      Know their young menfolk are alive while doing what they gotta do to survive, I imagine.

    • Rodel 2.4

      ‘Appears to be a lot of healthy single males leading the charge into Europe’ ……………. Is there evidence of this? I saw on Tv a few women and kids.

      • Bill 2.4.1

        Well, if a family can only rummage enough money together in order that one of them can take the journey, then given how fcking dangerous and arduous it is, I’d say they’d put their money on one of the younger, fitter and male members of the family.

        If that person ‘makes it’, there’s a chance they can secure passage for other family members.

        Just a thought.

        • Tracey 2.4.1.1

          I am also guessing that in many cases the better educated and english speaking gender is most likely to be male, given cultural attitudes of some to education in the mIddle east? More likely to meet immigration requirements and land a job? Then look to the family?

          I note no one has succeeded in getting an interview out of the President of Syria? He’s very quiet these days?

          McCully might have frightened him enough last week with his strong message of confrontation?

          “Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully has told the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) its “credibility is at stake” if more isn’t done to end conflict in Syria.

          Speaking to the UNSC at the Middle East open debate in New York where New Zealand is currently president, McCully said the situation in Syria had “remained deadlocked for too long”.

          “The region cannot afford for the conflict to continue. Nor can the council – its credibility is at stake”.” http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/70502741/murray-mccully-tells-un-security-council-its-credibility-is-at-stake

          Sanctions? UN resolutions? Nah, a wet bus ticket is what will make the difference; up, steps up NZ.

          Speaking of credibility, NZ at the Pacific forum will be ramping up climate change stance to show its true leadership to help the weaker and most affected nations in our region, right?

    • Tracey 2.5

      Maybe all the healthy men in NZ who want our soldiers to fight for their beliefs in Iraq should go and fight for themselves?

  3. John G 3

    What if the reason they left Syria was because they didn’t want to get involved in killing people?
    I’m glad Winny said that, I was starting to think he wasn’t as bad as I thought.
    I’m comfortable I was right now.

  4. some commenters here have the same idea – shows an absolute unknowing of realities – can’t comprehend the attitude myself, it seems way way out there to me.

  5. Roy 5

    Utterly contemptible. Winston should go himself, at his own expense. In fact, I’d chip in.

  6. Anne 6

    Stupid, stupid, stupid. Why are so many of them young, fit men? Because they are likely to be the ones with the best chance of making the hazardous journey in one piece just for starters. I have to conclude Peters is doing what Peters does best. Playing to the ignorant and the rednecks!

    Like you John G I was starting to think Winston wasn’t too bad…

    • Karen 6.1

      I think it is a good reminder to those who think NZ First could be a coalition partner for Labour that Winston is an old fashioned Tory.

      • weka 6.1.1

        which is a problem given how many lefties vote NZF.

      • Tracey 6.1.2

        the notion that the tories have the monopoly on bigots is silly. The left has its fair share of bigots and “red necks” and sexists.

        • save NZ 6.1.2.1

          +1 Tracy – their are loonies everywhere and in all political parties.

        • Karen 6.1.2.2

          Yep, but they don’t get to be the leader of the party.

          Peters has always modelled himself on Muldoon. Although Peters has considerably more charm Than Muldoon, behind that winning smile is a man willing to play to people’s prejudice and ignorance for political advantage.

          • Tracey 6.1.2.2.1

            John Tamihere for example

          • save NZ 6.1.2.2.2

            Well John Key is the biggest loonie and a compulsive liar to boot. Look at what the Natz are doing to our country and economy and environment and a lot of it is permanent and not easily reversed!!

            Key is a Neoliberal Loonie.

            I think most of the politicians are willing to play to people’s prejudice and ignorance for political advantage. Singling one out does nothing.

    • McFlock 6.2

      tl,dr: if single, young men really are disproportionately represented amongst refugees who make it to Europe, it’s probably because they can swim better than three year olds.

      I need a whiskey. Sigh.

  7. Ant 7

    Extraordinary idea. The one thing that would give the women, kids and the elderly a better chance of coping would be the moral and physical support of able bodied young men. I’m amazed at how the trauma, stress and physical hardship of being a refugee is routinely overlooked.

  8. weka 8

    This bit is interesting,

    “And if we’re going to do it, let’s bring the women and children and tell some of the men to go back and fight for their own country’s freedom, like we are.”

    (my emphasis).

    Does anyone know if Peters was ever in active service? I know he likes to swing punches, so I can see the macho aspect and its appeal, but that’s an odd thing to say. Maybe he means resisting immigration and asylum is a fight for one’s country’s freedom. Or bringing a wine box into parliament or whatever.

    • Pat 8.1

      expect he is referring to the NZDF deployment training troops against ISIL….give a politician enough rope

      • weka 8.1.1

        gods, that’s even worse. He’s comparing traumatised male war victims running for their lives with trained soldiers from a first world country being deployed far from home? The use of the word ‘we’ in that context is specious.

        • Tracey 8.1.1.1

          Yup. Next he will tell us “if i were younger I would be signing up to fight in Iraq myself”

          For the record, to my knowledge we have no troops fighting in Syria?

      • Bill 8.1.2

        Remember how we were expected to support the Daesh when they were a part of the so-called Syrian Free Army fighting the Syrian state of Assad?

        • Pat 8.1.2.1

          i dont but I do remember the PKK (YPG) were on the list of terrorist organisations, and may well still be

          • Bill 8.1.2.1.1

            The people of Kobani defeated the Daesh and said at the time that the Daesh were getting support from Turkey. The US airforce provided some measure of air support for the Rojavans in the battle for Kobani, which is a canton within Rojava. Rojava is predominantly Kurdish, but politically separate from the nascent Kurdish state in Iraq.

            Anyway. Now the Turkish air-force has the green light from the west to bomb them.

            Go figure.

            And yes, the PKK is still considered to be a terrorist organisation by western governments. (Shouldn’t be imo)

            • Tracey 8.1.2.1.1.1

              as The Greens co-leader says, this is a very confusing time for some of our people/politicians

              ““The Countering Terrorist Fighters Legislation Bill, which was passed in this House yesterday after several minutes of careful consideration and thoughtful debate… is designed to stop New Zealanders from going to fight for the Islamic State, which is fighting the Iraqi government, which we support. And we will shortly be sending the military over to help Iraq fight the Islamic State, which definitely will not have any New Zealanders fighting with them because we said so – yesterday.

              “We also support Saudi Arabia, which also supports the Islamic State, which is fighting the government of Iraq, which we also support. The Middle East is a very supportive environment right now. Our military will feel well-supported when they get over there. I will tell this House whom we do not support, and that is President al-Assad in Syria. We do support some of the freedom fighters who are fighting against President al-Assad, who are primarily led by the Islamic State, but we do not support the Islamic State. We also do not support Iran, which also does not support the Islamic State, and which does support the government of Iraq, which we do support.”

              Which brings me to the excellent article in the Metro by Graham Adams titled:

              How bizarre: Is New Zealand becoming the Absurdistan of the South Pacific?

              well worth the read…
              http://www.metromag.co.nz/current-affairs/how-bizarre/

          • GregJ 8.1.2.1.2

            Yes – the PKK aand its armed paramilitary wing the the Peoples Defence Forces – the HPG & the YJA-STAR (Women Units) are listed as terrorist organisations by the NZ Government.

            Turkey is of course using that as a reason to attack Kurdish Units in Northern Syria and Northern Iraq with air attacks – seemingly more strikes against them than Da’ish. I believe even the Syrian Kurdish Units of the Rojava (YPG/YPJ) have been targeted.

            Turkey’s role in the Syrian War and in the ongoing refugee crisis is pretty murky and obscure. It’s NATO & Western Allies are turning a blind eye to a lot of Turkey’s actions – particularly its treatment of Kurds both inside its own the country and inside Syria & Iraq.

    • save NZ 8.2

      +1 – Winston has gone too far on this one. However in the interests of MSM bias was Winston even quoted correctly – remember the other day, Kelvin Davis was for Charter schools (apparently).

      Winston has the most chance of taking Nat votes off National in my mind so although I am not a NZ First voter I am a NZ First tactical supporter:)

  9. tinfoilhat 10

    Winston will be thinking that his position is probably good for a lift of a few percentage points in the polls.

    • The lost sheep 10.1

      After the raging success of Chinagate, Labour will be rushing to copy this new Winston tactic?

      No no…just joking.

    • UniBoy_YoungVoter 10.2

      Why and how so?

      Do yo think he is using the media to gain attention for himself?

      Do you really think it’s working for him?

  10. Clemgeopin 11

    I think Winston is actually making a poignant point about fighting the ISIS to protect their country, rather than leave it to the western young soldiers and other locals remaining there. But I agree, he made his point in a little clumsy way.

    Personally, I think the plan now should be to support and unify ALL the countries in the zone, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and all middle east countries to put their differences aside, cooperate and jointly fight and eliminate terrorists such as ISIS, Taliban and Al Qaeda….and for the western forces, including NZ, to withdraw from those regions as soon as possible and not be ‘directly’ involved. I don’t think any other way will work.

    A tall order, I know.

    • Clemgeopin 11.1

      Also, all those countries should be persuaded to share the massive refugee burden.

    • les 11.2

      ‘tall order’…understatement of the ..year!

    • weka 11.3

      “I think Winston is actually making a poignant point about fighting the ISIS to protect their country, rather than leave it to the western young soldiers and other locals remaining there. But I agree, he made his point in a little clumsy way.”

      Clem, you seem to be equating trained soldiers with men running for their lives who aren’t soldiers. Are you suggesting that men should be soldiers because they are men?

      If someone doesn’t have the skill or training to be a soldier, and doesn’t want to be one, then you are asking them to be fodder in a war that has nothing to do with them other than an accident of geography. How can they fight the Daesh when they’re not soldiers?

      • Clemgeopin 11.3.1

        No, I am not saying that.
        Obviously they should want to protect their country and people from the terrorists and if they are, then obviously they must be trained before they go back to do their bit….If they don’t want to, of course we can not force then to.

        These are extraordinary times needing extra ordinary solutions.

        • weka 11.3.1.1

          So was Peters offering to pay for their training? Where? Sounded more to me that he thought they should man up and fight whether they were soldiers or not. And that he wasn’t talking about choice.

          • Clemgeopin 11.3.1.1.1

            He expressed his view. Obviously it was a brief statement and I suppose he could not provide all the details you want in his sound bite. Now it is up to the journalists to do their job and ask him further questions.

            It is good to hear various points of views to broaden one’s thinking rather than everyone parroting each other’s views/sentiments.

            • Tracey 11.3.1.1.1.1

              I’d love to hear from the President of Syria. He’s been been very quiet for a very long time.

    • Bill 11.4

      There are no ‘ western young soldiers’ on the ground in Syria. Funnily enough, western governments are having conniptions over the possibility that Russian troop deployment might soon be fighting the Daesh.

      Oh. And the likes of Australia is handing down 10 years in jail to any Australian who travels to the Rojava area to take up arms against the Daesh or help non-militarily within the cantons of Rojava. (Google Matthew Gardiner)

      edit: Should have said – ‘Officially’ there are no ‘western young soldiers’

  11. adam 12

    I suppose it was only a matter of time…

    I think Winny secretly wants to be a leader when our nation is at war.

  12. North 13

    Winston……WTF?……that’s jarring.

  13. Smilin 14

    MAYBE the suffering has led to the only intelligent move left – leave no one is going to save them or it would have been done by now
    Almost like smite me once smite me twice, you cant win this peace by living in destruction
    They are victims of every power

  14. McFlock 15

    Anyone who thinks that refugees should be trained, armed and sent back to Syria to fight when they quite obviously want to be somewhere else altogether has obviously not heard about all the US-made guns, tanks and humvees ISIL/Daesh collected from the Iraqi army: near new condition, only dropped once.

    It’s a stupid idea on so many levels.

  15. Mike the Savage One 16

    Well, having followed what is going on in Syria and Iraq for a few years now, I think that Winston may have taken a somewhat unusual stand, and a general one, but in my view, he has a valid point.

    It would be irresponsible to make refugee status a condition for males to take up arms and return to their homeland and fight, but it may make sense to support the buildup of a militia force, for those volunteering males from such places, who may then be willing to prepare to train and to go and fight.

    Those believing that there may be a solution achieved by sitting down and chatting over a cuppa tea with such ones like Islamic State fighters, and “negotiate” a peace deal, they are dreaming. And simply allowing Assad to continue slaughtering his own people, with even barrel bombs, that is equally insane.

    Sad thing is, we have a UN where the Security Council is dysfunctional, as Russia is actively supporting Assad and his army, same as Iran and Hezbollah, and on the other hand the US and some Gulf states support the odd Sunni fighting groups. And with that, with members of the Security Council being at loggerheads about Syria, there will be no end in sight of it all.

    If we had a UN and Security Council that would agree on such important matters, then it may pay to send a dedicated, pro democratic and Geneva Convention abiding fighting force in, for sure. As it is, it may still be necessary to support some armed group(s), as given the above, only a victory by one side will lead to a chance of a deal to come about, that may result in at least a cease fire.

    Or would those disagreeing volunteer to head to Syria and try negotiate with ISIS and also Assad?

    And just one more question, what is happening with that great agenda the NZ government had, to negotiate a peace deal between Palestinians and Israel, Mr McCully, have you any suggestions now? Perhaps try solve the Syria crisis first? Big words, no action, I reckon.

    • The Chairman 16.1

      Those more insightful disagree with your non negotiation stance.

      https://youtu.be/Bvh0W4GV9KQ

      • Mike the Savage One 16.1.1

        Oh yeah, RT, of course, very “independent”, like CNN and maybe Fox News. But that aside, yes, the British have historic responsibilities for the disaster and what caused it, as a former colonial power, same as France and some other players.

        But going beyond the blame game, what we have is heavy intervention by Russia, where RT sits, to support the Assad regime:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia's_role_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War
        http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/03/assad-russia-signed-arms-deals-syria-conflict-150330125839558.html
        http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/09/07/428153/Russia-Syria-Zakharova-Lavrov-Daesh

        We have also the US, French and the British support some other groups that fight the Assad regime, we have Arab Gulf nations support various groups, in some ways you may blame them all for the refugee crisis, as they keep the fire going, the war that is.

        It is time to look further, and to look at possible solutions, not continue the blame game, so while NZ sits at the helm of the Security Council in the UN, what are McCully and his representative doing?

        NZ sits in a key position to move things, there you go, and while I dislike war and fighting, we need to be realistic, about what may be needed to get rid of the sectarian war in Syria and Iraq, both states that only still exist on maps that are outdated. I watched a discussion on AlJazeera last night, and they showed a map of how divided Syria is now, under control of various armed groups.

        Something needs to be done to either defeat all of them, by a determined stronger force, or to get the better ones around a table and force a deal, as they will not voluntarily sign anything, all still thinking they can win it all.

        Simply believing that doing nothing, and just accepting refugees will only assist Islamic State and other radicals, and solve nada.

        You may as well establish relations with ISIS if you suggest doing nothing. Let them become legitimate then, have their own state and rule as they please. Is that what you may be able to live with?

      • Mike the Savage One 16.1.2

        The same Annie seems to have a certain agenda:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swHBticroRo

        Same faces repeating themselves.

  16. DH 17

    I have to wonder how people can so casually misinterpret simple words.

    to quote…

    “And if we’re going to do it, let’s bring the women and children and tell some of the men to go back and fight for their own country’s freedom, like we are.”

    Note the words ‘some of the men’. Everyone here went to school, we all know what “some” means. Why are people saying he wants to send back all of the men?

    • save NZ 17.1

      Thanks DH for clearing that up.

      Who is more dangerous National or NZ First?

      The left need to be tactical supporters of NZ First to get rid of National.

      Joining in to beat him up is not going to change the government next election.

      Tactics.

      • ZTesh 17.1.1

        You seem to forget that Winston’s politics are more aligned to the conservative and right than they are to the left. As history shows us, he is just as likely to ally with National if they offer him a mere sniff of any power.

        • save NZ 17.1.1.1

          Even if the worst happens and NZ First aligns to National it is still better than 100% pure Natz in power as we have now. At least NZ First is not trying to sell off our country cheaply for example.

          I’m not sure NZ First can stand the Natz either so I’m not sure where they will go and it will be up to the left to try to broker a deal, but NZ First policy is more likely to take Nat votes than Labour in my opinion. The NZ First voters are the conservatives, farmers and right wingers who feel the government has gone too far but not quite ready to vote Labour. Everyone can fight over the oldies votes as they are anyones guess.

          It is probably not in NZ First interests to say they will go with Labour/Greens as this may scare off their potential voters but I do think Labour is too National Lite and that is scaring off their voter base. It is Labour that is the most schizophrenic and the Natz have gone too far now for most swing voters.

    • Tracey 17.2

      Thanks for the clarity. Now, to uncover who he meant by some.

    • McFlock 17.3

      It’s not the “some” I have a problem with.
      It’s the “tell”, as in “direct”, “instruct”, or (dare I say it) “force”.

      If they submit to Winston “telling” them, how do you think they’ll react to ISIL shooting at them?

      Will they suddenly decide to hold their ground in the face of combat, when they changed their mind just because Winston told them to do something? Or will they forget their training, drop their equipment, and desert?

      Winston might as well just freight guns and ammunition direct to ISIL and cut out the middle man.

      • Tracey 17.3.1

        A new kind of lottery

        Apply to come to NZ and some of you will get to live here and some of you will be chosen to be airdropped into syria with a NZ army gun to fight your cause. you don’t know which one you will get when you apply though… so, step right up

  17. Mike the Savage One 18

    New Zealand will be easy taking in future, as few will be prepared to fight for their country, I may conclude. That is the impression I get from reading some comments here. It does not surprise me, given the lack of initiative and action on many controversial topics over recent years. Let the “sleepy hobbits” go back to sleep, I suggest, sleep can do no harm. All is well in Aotearoa NZ.

  18. Mike the Savage One 19

    Comrade Trotter has thrown in his assessment and view of the situation, for those who may be interested:
    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/09/09/making-a-desert-and-calling-it-peace-why-i-agree-with-winston-peters/

    “But not just the West. The Russian Federation and the Peoples Republic of China must also be part of the solution. A truly global force, assembled under the banner of the United Nations. Hundreds-of-thousands of soldiers: men and women of all colours and creeds, drawn from every continent, to cauterise the bleeding wound that is Syria. And in their wake the agents of international justice – for the sake of ruined Palmyra and its martyred guardian; for the sake of tiny, helpless, innocent Aylan.

    And in the vanguard of that mighty host, the young men of Syria: leading the attack; hewing down the flags of tyranny; setting their nation free.

    It’s all Winston Peters is trying to say: that Syria cannot be saved by emptying it of Syrians.”

  19. WatchDog 20

    “They might be terrorists”

    Yeah, and so could any Irish builder arriving to rebuild Christchurch.

  20. Neville Longbottom 21

    Winston Peters – risky call there mate! Does he know what reputation means?

  21. watchdogguardian 22

    As I’ve explored this topic further, I’ve found that every day it gets worse, the conditions of people are getting worse and people are getting hurt.
    On the other hand, people like Winston peters, has put forth his idea of sending the men back to fight. He proposed to only keep women and children, not to mention the fact that New Zealand’s quota is a joke, compared to other countries intakes.
    America has proposed to take in 10,000 in the next year
    Germany 800,000
    “The proposed relocation scheme for 160,000 refugees from Greece, Italy and Hungary would go a long way to address the crisis,”
    Germany expects some 40,000 migrants to arrive this weekend.

    http://www.vox.com/2015/9/11/9309973/syrian-refugees-us

    However, New Zealand is also smaller in size and economic aspects, but I am confident we can do much more than 750 . We need to give shelter to people who are in immanent need, it is our duty as humans.
    But back to Winston’s comments , As Dr Zain Ali has mentioned , who is the head of Islamic Studies research Unit at the University of Auckland, that “NZ First leader was telling men to go back to a meat grinder”
    Despite the fact that New Zealand isn’t doing enough, you want to send men back to fight?
    “You are saying to them, ‘go and fight for your freedom’. But in Syria at the moment there are, according to the BBC, 1000 different rebel groups – which one do you want them to fight for?”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11509698

    There are so many misconceptions about the refugees. The article below should clear some people’s view.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/71983666/nevermind-the-comments-heres-the-syrians

    They might be terrorists.

    Yeah, and so could any Irish builder arriving to rebuild Christchurch.

    The Refugee Council can recall no cases where extremists entered New Zealand as part of the refugee programme. People involved in war crimes, terrorism or violations of international human rights law are excluded from refugee programmes. The security services carry out rigorous security screening. If you don’t believe me, ask Ahmed Zaoui.

    Chances are those running for their lives from Islamic State won’t be sympathetic to the militants’ creed.

    They’ll leap-frog Auckland families on state house waiting list

    Did you not hear the PM when he said most will be resettled in an existing Syrian community in WELLINGTON?

    Refugees are easier to place, because they don’t have existing ties or preferences.

    The Red Cross (which does the resettling) has been shifting refugees away from Auckland and Christchurch – to ease pressure on housing. Instead they are making a new life in places like Manawatu and Nelson.

    Also, Housing NZ doesn’t work that way. If a three-bedroom house becomes available it will go to a family rather than a single person or couple.

    These people are “country-shopping” and could have stopped in safer countries.

    Ever been in an refugee camp? Mostly they are cramped, with only basic amenities and no place to make a home. For those living outside of camps on the Syrian border, scratching out a living is a miserable, and often unsafe, existence.

    Refugees don’t plan – many don’t even pack. They take their chances with no idea where they will end up – perhaps Indonesia, Malaysia or Pakistan. Many wait years in camps there before resettlement.

    Only 26 countries take part in the UNHCR programme. These are the only places that guarantee refugees the same rights and protection as existing nationals.

    Muslim countries aren’t doing their bit.

    The borders of Syria’s neighbours are overwhelmed. Turkey is sheltering up to 2 million Syrians, spending $4bn. One in five people living in Lebanon is a refugee. Jordan is now home to well over 600,000 Syrians, and Egypt 1350,000. Infrastructure in these countries is creaking under the pressure.

    They are a drain on welfare/steal our jobs.

    Certainly, the unemployment rate among new arrivals is higher than average. This is because they are often deeply traumatised and need time to adjust or learn English. Their work experience and qualifications may not be recognised. Long term, experts recognise refugees – who are often entrepreneurial – are anxious to work and return to a normal life.

    Yes refugees compete for jobs – but economics 101 – they’ll spend money too.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11510941

    • Xavier Hill 22.1

      Media watch dog – A very long post but, worth the read

      uhh, yeah well I too agree New Zealand needs to do more. As you have talked about in your post , Germany and Sweden are two countries who are more than doing their bit. And The White House says President Barack Obama has told advisers he wants to let 10,000 Syrian refugees into the U.S. in the coming budget year.

      I read the link you have put in your post.
      Our quota has not grown since 1987, and we are ranked 90th in the world at hosting refugees. SHOCKING
      I haven’t live in New Zealand for long but I think too there are perceptions of these people.
      But my question is that what is going to happen next? when they arrive here , and can we expand the quota

      thanks
      Xavier

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    The Government will conduct a Ministerial Inquiry to address problems with the school property system where the scope of property works planned was unrealistic and unaffordable. “The coalition Government has inherited a school property system bordering on crisis,” Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “There have been a number of cost escalations ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • New Chair for Guardians of NZ Superannuation
    Company director and investor John Williamson has been appointed as the new Chair of the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation, the Crown entity that oversees the NZ Super Fund and the Elevate NZ Venture Capital Fund, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today.  Mr Williamson will take up his new position ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Northland open for business as critical works to repair SH1 Brynderwyn Hills begin
    The Government is encouraging New Zealanders to support, visit, and explore Northland, as the closure and detour of SH1 at the Bryderwyn Hills begins, and critical repair work by the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) gets underway, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Many regions across the country suffered extensive and devastating ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Government backs police to crackdown on gangs
    The coalition Government is restoring law and order by providing police new tools to crack down on criminal gangs, says Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell.  “Over the last five years gangs have recruited more than 3000 members, a 51 per cent increase. At the same time, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Northland’s new Kāeo Bridge officially open
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the official opening of the new State Highway 10 (SH10) Kāeo Bridge, which will improve safety and traffic flow for people heading to and from the Far North. “This is an important piece of infrastructure for the Northland region that will help members of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government grants $6.6 million to clean up old landfill sites
    The Government has granted $6.6 million to clean up four historic New Zealand landfill and dump sites vulnerable to extreme weather events and coastal erosion. At the BlueGreens Forum in Paihia today Environment Minister Penny Simmonds said that the Contaminated Sites Remediation Fund grants will go towards fixing former landfills ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Dry weather triggers extra support for farmers and growers across the top of the South Island
    The coalition Government is providing support for farmers and growers as dry conditions worsen across the top of the South Island. “Conditions on the ground across the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are now extremely dry and likely to get worse in the coming months,” Agriculture Minister Todd McClay said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Trade Minister heads to Abu Dhabi for key WTO negotiations
    Trade Minister Todd McClay travels to Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates for the 13th Ministerial Conference of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) today, to take up his role as Vice Chair of the negotiations. The Ministerial Conference is the highest decision-making body within the WTO and meets every ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Appointment round for King’s Counsel announced
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced an appointment round for King’s Counsel will take place in 2024. Appointments of King’s Counsel are made by the Governor-General on the recommendation of the Attorney-General and with the concurrence of the Chief Justice. The Governor-General retains the discretion to appoint King’s Counsel in recognition ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Retiring Chief of Navy thanked for his service
    Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Navy, Rear Admiral David Proctor, for his service as he retires from the Royal New Zealand Navy after 37 years. Rear Admiral Proctor will retire on 16 May to take up an employment opportunity in Australia.  “I would like to thank ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Indonesian Vice President to visit New Zealand
    Indonesia’s Vice President Ma’ruf Amin will visit New Zealand next week, the first here by an Indonesian leader since 2018, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has announced. “New Zealand and Indonesia have a strong partnership,” Mr Peters says.  “The Vice President’s visit is an opportunity to discuss how we can strengthen ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government boost to fight against caulerpa
    The battle to contain the fast-spreading exotic caulerpa seaweed has today received a $5 million boost to accelerate the development of removal techniques, says Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard.  “The time is now to really lean in and build on the work of Biosecurity New Zealand, mana whenua, communities and local ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister attending Australian data, digital meeting
    Minister for Digitising Government Judith Collins is in Sydney to attend the first Data and Digital Ministers’ Meeting of 2024.  “This is a great opportunity to connect with our Australian counterparts and identify how we can work together on digital transformation,” Ms Collins says.   “Both our nations are looking into ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Appointments to Antarctica New Zealand Board
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has appointed Leon Grice and Heather Simpson to serve on the Antarctica New Zealand board.  “Since taking office, the Coalition Government has become concerned about the direction of the Scott Base Redevelopment Project,” Mr Peters says.  “It is vital that Antarctica New Zealand has the right ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Strengthening the Single Economic Market
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis has met with Australian Treasurer Jim Chalmers to discuss the opportunities to lower business costs and increase the ease with which businesses and people can operate across the Tasman.     “I have met with Treasurer Chalmers and shared our new Government’s ambitious economic goals, our plans ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government to address business payment practices
    The Government will repeal the Business Payment Practices Act 2023, Small Business and Manufacturing Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “There is a major problem with large market players imposing long payment terms and routinely paying invoices late. “However, the Business Payment Practices Act is not an effective solution and would ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Greater focus on work will reduce child poverty
    Worsening child poverty rates support the Coalition Government’s focus on reducing the cost of living and getting people into work, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. Figures released by Stats NZ today show child poverty rates have increased, with the rising cost of living, driven by inflation, making it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ announces new support for Ukraine
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins have marked two years since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine by announcing further support and sanctions, and extending our military assistance. “Russia launched its illegal, full-scale invasion of Ukraine, in blatant violation of international law, including the UN Charter,” Mr Peters says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Finance Minister to meet Australian Treasurer
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to Australia today to meet her Australian counterpart, Treasurer Jim Chalmers.    “New Zealand and Australia have an incredibly strong trade and investment relationship. The Closer Economic Relations and Single Economic Market are powerful engines for growth on both sides of the Tasman.     “I will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • PM shocked and saddened at death of Efeso Collins
    “I am truly shocked and saddened at the news of Efeso Collins’ sudden death,” Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “Efeso was a good man, always friendly and kind, and a true champion and advocate for his Samoan and South Auckland communities. “Our thoughts and deepest sympathies go to his family, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Greater support for social workers
    The Coalition Government is enhancing the professionalism of the social work sector and supporting the vulnerable people who rely on them, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says.  The Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill passed its third reading in Parliament today. It amends the Social Workers Registration Legislation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Government delivers greater freedom and choice for sick New Zealanders
    The coalition government is delivering on its commitment to making principled decisions by getting rid of red tape that doesn’t make sense and allowing sick New Zealanders greater freedom and choice to purchase effective cold and flu medicines. A bill amending the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 is being introduced, and changes to the Medicines ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Government begins reset of welfare system
    The Coalition Government is taking early action to curb the surge in welfare dependency that occurred under the previous government by setting out its expectations around employment and the use of benefit sanctions, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. In 2017, 60,588 sanctions were applied to beneficiaries who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • State of the Nation
    Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Kia ora, good morning, talofa, malo e lelei, bula vinaka, da jia hao, namaste, sat sri akal, assalamu alaikum. Thank you for coming to my first State of the Nation as Prime Minister. Thank you for coming to a speech where I don’t just ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • West Coast tourism attractions officially open
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones will attend the official opening of two highly anticipated tourism projects on the West Coast today – Pike29 Memorial Track, dedicated to the memory of the Pike River miners, and Pounamu Pathway. “The Pike29 Memorial Track is a way to remember and honour the men ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Independent ferry service advisory group in place
    Appointments to the Ministerial Advisory Group tasked with providing independent advice and assurance on the future of KiwiRail’s inter-island ferry service have been made, State Owned Enterprises Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It’s important for New Zealand that KiwiRail is focused on ensuring safe, resilient, and reliable ferry services over the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Joint statement from the Prime Ministers of Australia, Canada, and New Zealand
    The Prime Ministers of Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on reports of Israel’s planned military operation in Rafah. We are gravely concerned by indications that Israel is planning a ground offensive into Rafah.   A military operation into Rafah would be catastrophic. About 1.5 million Palestinians ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Govt will deliver on expanded breast screening
    The coalition Government has made the first steps in delivering on its promise to  extend free breast screening to women aged 70-74, Health Minister Shane Reti says. “As part of the 100 day plan, the Government has now met with officials and discussed what is needed in order for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government announces woolshed roadshows in support of sheep farmers
    The Government celebrates National Lamb Day (15 February 24) and congratulates sheep farmers on the high-quality products they continue to produce. Agriculture Minister McClay hosted bipartisan celebrations of National Lamb Day with industry representatives at Parliament this week to mark the anniversary of the first frozen lamb exports that left ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech: Address to the NZ Economics Forum
    It’s great to be back at the New Zealand Economics Forum. I would like to acknowledge everyone here today for your expertise and contribution, especially the Pro Vice-Chancellor, Head of the Waikato Management School, economists, students and experts alike. A year has passed since I was last before you, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government tackling high construction costs
    The Government is focused on reducing sky-high construction costs to make it more affordable to build a home, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says.  Stats NZ data shows the cost of building a house has increased by 41 per cent since 2019, making housing even more unaffordable for Kiwi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s Three Waters legislation repealed
    The Coalition Government’s legislative plan to address longstanding issues with local water infrastructure and service delivery took an important step today, with the repeal of Labour’s divisive and unpopular Three Waters legislation, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says. “Repealing this legislation is a necessary first step in implementing our Local ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Cost of living support for beneficiary households
    The Coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to ease the cost-of-living by increasing main benefit rates in line with inflation and ensuring the Minimum Family Tax Credit threshold remains aligned with this change, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. The Social Security (Benefits Adjustment) and Income Tax ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government announces agriculture delegations to better support Primary sector
    The coalition Government has announced ministerial delegations to support key areas across the Primary sector to deliver for New Zealand’s food and fibre sector, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I will be supported in my roles as Minister of Agriculture, Trade, Forestry and Hunting and Fishing, by three Associate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Waikato MoU reinforces Govt’s commitment to increase NZ doctors
    The Government has taken an important step forward in addressing a critical shortage of New Zealand-trained doctors, with today’s signing of a Memorandum of Understanding for a third medical school, Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti has announced.  “Today’s signing by the Ministry of Health and the University of Waikato ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech – Lunar New Year 2024
    Annyeonghaseyo, greetings and welcome all. It is my pleasure as the Minister for Ethnic Communities to welcome you to the first Lunar New Year Event in Parliament. Thank you to our emcees for greeting us in the different languages that represent the many cultures that celebrate the Lunar New Year. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • More funding to Hawke’s Bay and Tairāwhiti
    Urgent work to clean-up cyclone-affected regions will continue, thanks to a $63 million boost from the Government for sediment and debris removal in Hawke’s Bay and Tairāwhiti.                                                                                                   The funding will help local councils continue urgent work removing and disposing of sediment and debris left from Cyclone Gabrielle.   “This additional ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Budget will be delivered on 30 May
    Plans to deliver tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders, rebuild business confidence and restore the Crown’s finances to order will be unveiled on 30 May, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The plans will be announced in the Budget which is currently being developed by Ministers.  “The last government’s mismanagement of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government advances Local Water Done Well
    The Coalition Government is continuing work to restore council ownership and control of water assets by repealing Three Waters and appointing a Technical Advisory Group to provide expert advice on the implementation of Local Water Done Well, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says. “The Government will pass a bill to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Minister congratulates NZQA Top Scholars
    Education Minister Erica Stanford congratulates the New Zealand Scholarship recipients from 2023 announced today.  “Receiving a New Zealand Scholarship is a fantastic achievement and is a testament to the hard work and dedication the recipients have put in throughout the year,” says Ms Stanford.  “New Zealand Scholarship tests not only ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago

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