- Date published:
5:17 pm, February 6th, 2009 - 59 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags: dogwhistling
Just when Farrar had made me happy, as I explain in this post, and had even been quite funny in his retort, he goes and reminds me I should never put anything past him.
Today, he’s attacking the welfare system by running a post about a invalid beneficiary who he reckons can’t be an invalid because she was up to wrestling with the Police and growling at them. Using all his medical expertise and a short Dompost article, Farrar concludes WINZ has stuffed up.
David, you know as well as I do that people with severe personality disorders or psychological conditions that mean they can’t work go on the invalids’ benefit. That looks to be the case with this woman. This woman’s actions were not right and I don’t defend them but WINZ is completely in the right in delivering income assistance to those who are unable to work.
Your dog-whistling is as disappointing as is it transparent. Still, got to throw some meat to the dogs every now and then, eh?
Who doesn’t have a ‘severe personality disorder’?
We’re all examples of something in a psychology textbook yet we’ve managed to build this country.
We can’t pick and choose a world that fits our ‘psyche’ to live in, we have to deal with this one.
As I see it there’s two possible underlying narratives to this story.
Kiwiblog’s – the woman is a parasite, capable of working, but who has – whether by by manipulatin or threats – convinced the system to hand her a large amount (over time, I mean) of taxpayers’ money so she can enjoy an indolent lifestyle and raise at least one, probably more, dangerous and destructive children.
The Standard’s – the woman has a personality disorder or severe psychological condition which prevents her from successfully gaining, or holding down, a “normal” job. But rather than do anything practical to improve her situation or assist her to overcome this disorder, the system instead hands her a large amount of taxpayers’ money so she can enjoy an indolent lifestyle and raise at least one, probably more, dangerous and destructive children.
Assuming you’re right, Steve, such people can be helped. In the 80s I worked for Morehu Social Services (which ran work skills programmes till the incoming National government decided they were a waste of time). There was a trainee who looked almost exactly like the woman in question, except her charms were added to by a glass eye that kept popping out whenever she lost her temper, which was often.
All we could give her to do was to push a broom round the office but she came to work each day and did so with enthusiasm. It took a long time and a lot off effort (all of it government funded) to get her personality disorder under control but eventually it happened.
When I last heard of her she had married, had a daughter, and was holding down a private sector job.
And before you lay the blame for all this at the feet of 90s National government, Labour did nothing to restore those community-run training programs (which also doubled as a way to support organisations like Morehu and the Salvation Army) and scorned sheltered workshops as un-PC when they too offered such people some sort of productive life.
So whatever speculation holds true – yours or DPF’s – there’s absolutely no excuse, IMHO, for this woman being allowed to lead the life she’s leading and the blame lays squarely at the feet of decades of politicians and public servants.
Meat for the dogs? Flies around a flatulent pig’s arse works better for me (and v disappointed in one particular fly – I’ll put it down to temporary heat delirium…)
Dunno why you go there at all except for the laxative effect – still, we should be grateful to have such skilled savants and diagnosticians among us: obviously vastly superior to the poor health professional who assessed the lady. An entire profile, life history and prognosis for the country from a single photograph – sheer brilliance.
Farrar should go mainstream: “Sensing Bigotry: Dr Dave summons the underworld from beyond the pale” (R12: Lack of rational content may offend: not suitable for mature audiences)
(Edit: just noticed your comment above, Rex: much better. Would dispute the contention that programmes have been significantly gutted – got any concrete suggestions as to what could be done better? Back when the cricket dies down)
She anit starving that is for sure.
she is barking mad
“Who doesn’t have a ‘severe personality disorder’?”
SBlount, you’ve been spending too much time in the blogosphere. On the other hand with a mental condition like that she could probably do whatever it is that sustains the bank accounts of posters on nominister.
Rex, I agree that there is a failure to properly fund and run the mental health system, and have written on the issue in the past, but I take exception to your claim she is in receipt of “a large amount of taxpayers money”. The invalids benefit isn’t exactly living off the hog’s back.
Brett, obesity is often a sign that a person isn’t able to access a healthy, balanced diet. Often due to poverty. Of course there are some people who are wealthy and obese (some of whom are bloggers). I’d suggest that that is a more likely an issue of personal responsibility.
Borderline Personality disorder should not preclude you from working. However, the woman in question could have any number of conditions, such as asthma or depression, that might stop her working but leave her strong enough to assault police officers.
“Brett, obesity is often a sign that a person isn’t able to access a healthy, balanced diet. Often due to poverty. Of course there are some people who are wealthy and obese (some of whom are bloggers). I’d suggest that that is a more likely an issue of personal responsibility.”
Oh My God!
The worst example of doublethink I’ve heard.
Half of the local chapter of the mongrel mob are on the invalids benefit.
They got a patched up doctor in their back pocket eh bro.
To unstable to work, but excellent at swinging a machete when they don’t get their criminal way!
SP, for someone who has claimed many times that you never visit the “sewer” you seem to be very well versed in what is being published by DPF.
Asthma stops you from earning a wage?!
I have this disease like 1 in 3? other NZ’ers. Another 2 people in my immediate family have been hospitalized with it. We all have jobs.
Is not working one of the best things you can do for depression?
Worst blog ever.. I will only read it three more times…………today
I concur Steve, I’m going to try to write something about this in the morning. Mind you sadly this thread includes some pretty awful comments too (not your fault).
Clearly you have no idea how debilitating depression and personality disorders can be… it is not even about if it is good for them, (when it often is not). Depending on the strength of disorder, some people simply cannot work, and even if they can, one look at a person like her would make an employer want to run the other way.
Mental Illnesses make some people unemployable, lets make their lives worse by condemning them for it.
I partly agree with you SP, it is quite possible that this woman has a personality disorder which would make her legitimately on an invalid’s benefit. I don’t know where you got the information that she actually has a personality disorder, though. Is this the reason she’s on an invalid’s benefit? If so, how do you know this? Have you got access to her medical records and/or her WINZ benefit application?
Her actions in the Court do sound a bit unhinged. Since the article states she was jailed for contempt, and there’s no evidence that any submissins were made by counsel to the effect that her actions were driven by a personality disorder, I think the onus is on you to establish that this is the case, and that this is the reason she’s on a benefit.
Further reading of the DomPost article suggests that this woman was not “barking like a dog” due to some bizarre, random behaviour, but that rather it is a common show of support to Mongrel Mob members.
If anyone’s interested, I know the truth about this woman’s medical history and financial situation. And the truth is that it’s none of your fecking business.
Seriously, you all look pathetic sitting in judgment on someone you know next to nothing about.
Ur onto it will: salient behaviour demonstrated in this thread is the tendency for right-wingers to construct an entirely fictitious class of inferiors, ascribe membership thereof to anonymous individual victims based purely on appearance, all the while claiming to support the individual and the non-existence of class. Drearily predictable, incredibly damaging, and thankfully, like all glaring inconsistencies, doomed to extinction.
“Clearly you have no idea how debilitating depression and personality disorders can be ”
Yes I do.
Clearly you have no idea about other peoples experience.
“Depending on the strength of disorder, some people simply cannot work”
But not all people. This argument cannot be used to justify all situations in which it is claimed a person is unable to work, otherwise we’d all be on a sickness benefit.
“If anyone’s interested, I know the truth about this woman’s medical history and financial situation. And the truth is that it’s none of your fecking business.
Seriously, you all look pathetic sitting in judgment on someone you know next to nothing about.”
Clearly people are interested, but we don’t know what you might know, and you aren’t telling us which may be fair enough.
What is apparent here is that a person on an invalid benefit has shown herself to be physically capable in fighting off the police. A court has held her mentally and emotionally accountable for contempt of court. This would seem to be in contradiction to her status as an invalid benefit.
“Justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done’
In this situation it is not apparent that justice is being done. And unless there is some clarification or assurance taxpayers will eventually remove the source of funds.
In justifying the use of taxpayer money the burden of proof resides with the spender, not the provider of taxpayer money.
I am not generally in favour of ‘beneficiary bashing’ because I currently have confidence that the people entrusted with overseeing benefits are doing their job. We will always have some degree of white collar crime, we just need to make it as hard as possible to get away with.
Farrar is just a fricking sicko…. and most of the sick-minded rightie posters defy their own humanity with some of the things they say. The same kind of people who would have been avid readers of VÃ¶lkischer Beobachter and Der StÃ¼rmer in another time and place. Frightening, reactionary and it’s hard to believe I’m reading it all in NZ?!
What is apparent here is that a person on an invalid benefit has shown herself to be physically capable in fighting off the police.
Nonsense. If she was capable of fighting off the police she wouldn’t have been arrested.
A court has held her mentally and emotionally accountable for contempt of court. This would seem to be in contradiction to her status as an invalid benefit.
The courts don’t make decisions on benefit entitlements. That is the job of Work & Income, based on information supplied by the person’s doctor and specialists. The court’s concern is that a person is mentally capable of understanding the charges brought against them. This has nothing to do with being fit for work.
In justifying the use of taxpayer money the burden of proof resides with the spender, not the provider of taxpayer money.
No-one has to prove anything to you. This is between the woman, her doctor and Work & Income. Idiots on the internet don’t come into it.
A 100% hypocritical statement.
“decisions on benefit entitlements. That is the job of Work & Income”
On behalf of the taxpayers.
No-one has to prove anything to you. This is between the woman, her doctor and Work & Income. Idiots on the internet don’t come into it.”
doctor = employee of the taxpayer
Work & Income = taxpayers
The spending of WINZ is accountable to the taxpayer and relies on the confidence of taxpayers to continue its function.
Yes, on behalf of. That means they do it because it’s not realistic to run every decision by you, me and the rest of the country.
Do you really not understand that? Are you really that Thick? Are you Burt?
You get to vote for governments who will promote the type of policies you support but you don’t get to run an inquisition on someone you saw on tv because you reckon you know better than everyone else.
If you want to make operational decisions for a government department then get a job in one, work your way up and try to influence policy. Otherwise you’re just another moron on the internet bitching about things that you don’t understand.
Love you too Felix. I wasn’t passing judgment on this woman and haven’t passed comment in this thread. You should seek professional help for your obsession with me. Perhaps you want to meet, shall we get a room?
Thanks burt, and sorry to interrupt, but in the absence of a dedicated Waitangi Day thread, may I humbly suggest, to whomever may be in a position to pose it, that the following question be put to our Prime Minister?
“Do you, John Key, as Prime Minister of New Zealand, wish to close the gaps between pakeha and maori with regards to life expectancy, incarceration rates, and educational achievement? And if so, what concrete steps will you take to achieve this?”
Funny old world, innit burt: an admitted atheist, former Orewa One supporter leads prayers at Waitangi to the fawning of former “maori radicals”, just as a “nigra” assumes the mantle of world leader and chooses the path that will determine our fate.
Wake up, Harawira: you’re only there as ACT insurance: put the question now or forever rue our main chance.
I personally know someone who has approached various doctors until he managed to find one who would sign off on him having depression for the purposes of obtaining a sickness benefit. For him this means none of that annoying job-hunting stuff. He fully acknowledges that he is quite capable of working but doesn’t want to. But he has someone in the medical establishment to back him up.
Even as a recent import here I can see it. Bloody hell, how did they do it? Getting someone who is reasonably smart like Hone to completely buy into JK’s s
I was reading the stuff about him leading a prayer and was going WHAT? He is an admitted atheist from Jewish (If you believe in the Jews being a race perhaps this would be interesting for you to read because that is what a lot of Orthodox Jewish people thing of that one) descent and here he is leading a Christian prayer. How is that for Hypocrisy. I hope they remember that when they get shafted in the next three years.
At least Helen Clark never stooped to that.
It just goes to show you that John Key has absolutely no morals and is happy to give the punters what they want so he can screw’m good later.
trev, how can John Key lower the standards any further as the vile Miss Clark and her delirious absolute power regime obliterated all known acceptable standards to the point where society has become devoid of accountability and respectability? Miss Clark should be in a cell.
Your blame the Jews routine is so finger in the dyke boring crap. Do try and get a life you stupid tulip muncher.
Ah, the old “you are a Jew hater” argument.
No Peter, I have the greatest respect for Judaism and it’s adherents. The link I gave was to a group of people who live their life in love for their fellow human beings through the wisdom they find in the Torah. You can’t be more Jewish than that. They are the ones pointing out that Judaism is a religion and not a race and that the Torah is their guiding spiritual principle.
I have the same respect for Maori who follow that principle of love and respect for their fellow humans through the wisdom they find in the Bible.
If JK as a practising Jew had joined the Maori in a prayer to Jaweh as they had to God I would have thought that a beautiful thing and a powerful building of mutual Mana.
I was merely pointing out that in the Wikipedia entry on JK, JK is quoted as saying that he goes to church a lot with the girls but that his attitude towards religion is easy and that he is technically a Jew because his mammy was.
That is a close as saying “I don’t give a flying fuck about religion” in politicians language. Helen Clark said the same thing when she said I’m not a morning person as her reason not to attend the morning prayers but at least she wasn’t soiling the spirituality of the attending Maori with some fake prayer drivel. I find it insulting to those who for true spiritual reasons where there at that time.
I’m glad to you being back to your old form Peter, I was beginning to miss the tulip muncher moniker. Funny how the “Jew” word no matter how innocently used triggered your racist bone.
However to get back to the thread, the lack of compassion here is truly staggering. I don’t know the lady in question and to be quit honest my revulsion was triggered by her slug white belly bared on the photos. It triggered instant Oh Yuk feelings but a soon as I read the “on benefit” thing I was reminded of the way our MSM stigmatises and manipulates. Felix is right, we don’t know her and therefore we should not judge.
That’s another one for ya Peter; “He who is without sin shall cast the first stone.”
Are you without sins Peter?
Dear Eve I sin everyday. Yes I feel better now as dad4justice but he is banned? To much bad sin I think? Whatever, I don’t give a flying f. Yes, you and felix are dam right, we should not judge. Give me that gavel judge and I”ll whack that soldiers ear off. Oops, silly me, must go and sin, then visit the loony bin.
Rock on Jesus for I am sinner and the judge a binner.
Love Adam xx
I believe Key was asked to lead the prayers at Waitangi, he is not an atheist but in his own words “not a heavy believer” …….. the words and the temerity both he and Clark showed when asked the question on TV about belief has a lot to do, in my opinion, with people in this country being scared of admitting they believe in a God/higher power.
Good on him for treating the people there with respect and actually fronting up to lead the prayers and saying the following
‘Soon after the congregation was told the service was not a political service and that political arguments should stay at the lower Te Tii marae, Mr Key led the prayer.
“As we gather here this morning on this most historic of sites at dawn, we can give thanks.
“We give thanks to the fact that out country is still one of the most amazing places in the world to live, where our oceans are teeming with fish, where our land is arable and can deliver for our people, where we see opportunities for all New Zealanders and where we can live in peace.
“We also give thanks for those who came and signed the treaty 169 years ago, those iwi leaders who showed two of the most important human characteristics – hope and courage.
“The hope that they could deliver on the promise of New Zealand, the belief that New Zealand could go forward – two people, shared beliefs, shared values – and the courage to take a step that they couldn’t be sure would be right but that they hoped would deliver on the promise of our land.”
I would have thought that this was a sentiment that everyone could agree with regardless of their religion, race or political leaning ……… sadly you have proven me wrong.
My Reading of DPF is that when the Boss (john Key) does something that goes against the narrative he does not post about it till its off the front page (when key fell down the stairs he waited till ‘the hard man shook the hands of 120 people with broken arm’ meme was in the papers).
In this example Waitangi was spun to be a National and Maori love fest. It did not go according to script, JK almost had a moment, he looked frightened for a brief moment and right fully so. This did not fit the National narrative of being Hard men and women.
So today John Armstrong writes a column running the National hard man John Key line, this gives DPF the cover he needs to post.
DPF’s post could have written itself and the comments were very predictable, why the surprise? He has admitted vie Whaleoil that he works in the research unit, its a classic misdirection.
Me too hs, I give Key his props on this.
He’s not very religious but he can still take part in a religious ceremony. I think that’s perfectly appropriate – in fact I think it’s part of the job, really – he’s the PM for everyone, not just for people who happen to share his faith or lack thereof.
It’s a good thing, in my opinion, that we don’t give politicians’ religious beliefs too much weight in this country.
SBlount, please explain why my statement was “100% hypocritical”?
In my opinion the kind of uninformed bile spat out by most posters at KB is every bit as vile as the stuff I have read in the NS rags of the 30s and 40s – certainly just as loaded with violent/threatening language and ignorance..
So to call my statement hypocritical you would have to be asserting that my statement was uninformed, violent, and hateful to a defenceless minority?? I don’t believe it was..
Felix you’re right to give Goober credit for being able to front up, and he handled the whole weekend quite well especially the idiots who attacked him (totally unecessary) but as far as being everyones PM!!! He’s as much my PM as is that bitch in England my Queen. I wouldn,t cross the road and piss on the pair of them if they were on fire. lol
The people at Kiwiblog just don’t get it. This mongrel mob woman recieves state assistance to which she is rightfully entitled. These substantial & comprehensive benefits are abley provisioned through WINZ & HNZ. Now her sons accomodation & feeding requirements will be fully met by the Dept of Corrections. Thank goodness for tax funded state benefits.
IrishBill: the “people” at Kiwiblog are a bunch of ignorant fanatics who have already made threats of violence against Steve for posting on this issue.
Do you often cross the road to piss on people who are on fire?
I would also note that –
1. John Key is your Prime Minister just as Helen Clark was the Prime Minister for those odd people who had a pathological hatred of her.
2. Calling the Queen of England a bitch is as offensive as making similar disparaging comments about the Maori King.
3. You are a tool.
Isn’t that slightly exaggerated?
“IrishBill: the “people’ at Kiwiblog are a bunch of ignorant fanatics who have already made threats of violence against Steve for posting on this issue.”
Has this thread become a police matter?
“…a couple of lone protesters..”
Nice, John Armstrong…. nice.
I have read the thread at kiwiblog and cant find one threat against Steve?
(lprent: email? Some of the loons did that once to me. For some reason they didn’t like the backtrace)
I would if I had no water , but for those two and what they represent to me, extremely doublful.
You can also note that –
1. I’ve got nothing against Key as a man. Like I said – Its what he represents to me.
2. She is the figurehead of an organisation/group/party/country (call it what you want) that have “Royally” screwed over my people and just about every other race they have ever come into contact with. Then I’ll call her a BITCH any time thanks.
If Tuheitia Paki who I presume you’re referring to, had done that to my people which he hasn’t, then I’d be calling him a similar name! (BTW he’s not my king either)
You might also note the LOL on the end of my entry – this means laughs out loud, obviously a light learted comment that is lost on you.
3. You are a tool by taking it as you have.
Steve – threats of violence should not be tolerated? Make a complaint to cops if you have the evidence? Surely, it’s your public duty to stamp out any anti social behaviour.This is a serious allegation you make.
Isn’t that slightly exaggerated?
Nope the blogs are full of them what IB has failed to acknowledge is there’s just as many here as at Kiwiblog – it is a worrying tendency that all blogs tend to put up with nutters to a greater degree if they come from the same political bent, while proceeding to attack anyone who’s perceived to come from the other side of the political tracks.
C’est la vie … I’m feeling quite positive after yesterdays Waitangi celebrations I thought Key, Goff, Tuheitia Paki and their hosts at Waitangi and all involved (apart form a couple of dickheads) did the country proud.
You’ve got nothing against Key as man …… right OK … that’s why you feel it’s necessary to refer to him as goober etc etc.
……. and your assertions regarding the British as a people screwing over all and everyone they have come in contact with is also rather telling and pathetic.
I repeat you are a complete spanner despite your protest otherwise you also appear to be a bigot – one would hope you are not representative of your people whoever they are ?
So what was the threat about Steve made at kiwiblog? Because for the life of me, I cant find any threat over there.
HS, we run a tight ship here where threatening people gets you banned. Whether you are left or right. In fact I’ve currently got the ‘sod on a five week ban for personally abusing a right wing commenter.
Hi burt, ha ha I just found your comment from last night.
I wasn’t addressing you, I was asking sblount if they were you. Sorry, I can see now that it wasn’t very clear.
As for your kind offer, thanks but I think it would kill all the romance.
This is getting serious, you’re actually agreeing with HS on something.
Tell you what gentlemen if in three years time JK and his new found Maori friends are still feel blissfully happy with each other I’ll eat humble pie. That would mean I judged John Key totally wrong and to be honest I sincerely hope I am.
To me actions speak louder than words.
Getting laws though parliament under urgency that will inevitably damage race relations and promote inequality will stand while beautiful words evaporate.
But hey, if in three years time we all live better lives in harmony with one another I’ll happily concede.
Who knows by than we might even invite those of other religions and backgrounds who have recently arrived such as out Muslim brothers and sisters and our Chinese Buddhist brothers and sisters to the same service to make this a truly all embracing and loving ecumenical congregation of all people races and creeds living in this country trying to get along and work towards a common future.
Dont forget our Jewish brothers and sisters.
I don’t think there is anything prohibiting Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus etc attending the service at Waitangi.
I suspect a number of the people up there were of these denominations or were atheists who really cares what religion or lack of they choose as long as they behave well to each other ?
My people are English & Maori and if I’m wrong with my comment “screwed over my people (meaning Maori) and just about every other race they have ever come into contact with.” then you could prove me wrong and I’d gladly retract it but I don’t think that will be happening.
If by British you mean the British Crown as an entity then you’d be right on the nail but if you mean the people, then you’re way off the mark.
As for being a bigott – now you really are being a dork.
I heard there was a Klesmer band playing during the festivities. I love Klesmer music.
Beautiful, haunting and wickedly funny at times and great to dance to if you like the Jewish circular style of dancing (I did once and had a great time).
Yes, as far as behaving in public is concerned JK does it by the book. Open anger I have noticed is not the Pakeha Kiwi way. They always smile and behave in public while stabbing each other in the back. John Key did great yesterday: he smiled and told the punters what they wanted to hear. He did the backstabbing a while ago when he and his National mates pushed all their crap through during “Urgency”.
And of course when we can’t hear him he says what he really means like how the tax payers are going to have to pay for the banksters and the hedgefunds gambling.
Captcha: Washington voted. I wonder what he would have voted here in NZ?
You said “she is the figurehead of an organisation/group/party/country (call it what you want) that have “Royally’ screwed over my people and just about every other race they have ever come into contact with. Then I’ll call her a BITCH any time thanks.”
You then state that you are English and Maori …. a kiwi let’s say.
I think the majority of Maori would find it abhorrent that you would call the Queen of England a bitch, let’s leave aside the issue of you having an english heritage also and have chosen to lambast the figurehead (as you have called her) of that same country as a bitch ….. all in all rather an odd position to take especially the day after we’ve celebrated Waitangi day …………. I find your attitude and demeanour to be somewhat Mugabesque.
Nice to know that your opinion of the vast majority in this country (including yourself is so low)
Making facile bigoted comments like that only serves to make you look even sillier than usual.
I wonder what the good people of the hand mirror would think about you calling a woman a B***.
There you go HS,
Stabbing the back very politely. And no, I have a very high opinion about a lot of NZers and I am very happy with myself thank you.
It’s when they go all huffy puffy hoity toity British in the so called “Civilised behaviour” department I get those oh puke feelings.
Eve …… does that make you a bilious bitcher ?
Can you explain to me how I have stabbed you in the back after I commented
” facile bigoted comments like that only serves to make you look even sillier than usual.”
in relation to your comment…
“Open anger I have noticed is not the Pakeha Kiwi way. They always smile and behave in public while stabbing each other in the back. ”
I suggest you go and have a chunder and then depart back to your alternate reality blog.
You guys should put all those threatening emails into posts so the unbelieving right can see what some of their comrades can be like.
[lprent: Kind of pointless – all it does is extend the knowledge about the ‘rules’ of harassment. There are all of those interesting rules about what is threatening. Ask Peter aka d4j about how many cell phone calls before vodaphone will treat threatening phone calls as a problem. My niece Rochelle got some calls from some interesting numbers. Such brave ‘people’…. ]
I loved g his standards ever lower at The Standard 2.02!