National no friends

Written By: mickysavage - Date published: 8:27 am, October 2nd, 2017 - 194 comments
Categories: bill english, climate change, Environment, ETS, james shaw, Media, national, public transport, same old national, sustainability, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, transport, winston peters - Tags: Eugene Sage, julie anne genter

I just listened to Bill English being interviewed on Radio New Zealand. He disclosed that he had rang Winston Peters personally on the weekend but that Peters had not returned his call. He also talked around and then gave a really weak response to the question whether he had offered the Greens James Shaw the Deputy Prime Minister’s position or the Finance portfolio if the Greens lined up with National.

This was not an accidental disclosure. English also revealed the unanswered call to Duncan Garner on the AM show.

He tried to avoid discussing the crisis that will be caused when the special votes are counted and National’s majority is trimmed if not obliterated. And I can understand National’s desire to negotiate now. I am confident that waiting for the specials to be counted will mean that the negotiating dynamic will be different. Rather than a Labour-Green-NZ First Government relying on a knife edge majority a more substantial majority will mean that such a proposition will be more feasible.

National is trying to manoeuvre the Greens into a position where they have to enter negotiations, even though this will be damaging to the Greens. But having one of your paid help describe the Greens as mainly hippies and drug addicts and then expecting them to negotiate in a civilised manner six weeks later requires lots of chutzpah. After nine long years of environmental degradation and dirty politics can National really expect anything different?

And the Herald is continuing its Pro National Government coverage with an interestingly article with the title As New Zealand waits for a new Govt, more come out in support of National-Green deal. It is only after reading the article that you realise that the “more” is former National Prime Minister Jim Bolger.

With the greatest of respect the article does not make sense. For instance it contains this passage:

Until now, the people urging Greens to consider talks with National have come from outside the party.

That includes senior National ministers who have floated the idea of a National-Green coalition in a bid to strengthen their hand in talks with NZ First leader Winston Peters.

I always thought that senior National ministers were members of the National Party. Have I missed something?

Nandor Tanczos is mentioned in the article. But he says that the Greens going into coalition with National would be political suicide. This is hardly what could be described as “support” of a National-Green deal.

Perhaps National should show it is serious by offering fundamental changes in policy. Adding agriculture to the Emissions Trading Scheme for one. Committing to meet New Zealand’s climate change goals by internal carbon sequestration and CO2 and methane suppression would be another. Placing Eugenie Sage as Climate Change Minister and Julie-Anne Genter as Transport Minister would be other offers that could be made. Cancelling the roads of national significance projects and putting the billions of dollars into public transport, walking and cycling projects and rail should be part of the mix. And not having a real target for reducing child poverty would be a deal breaker.

New Zealand First and the Greens are doing the right thing in not negotiating with National right now. National’s desperation is showing.

Update: I have just reread the Herald article and it seems that it was suggesting that Nandor Tanczos was the person outside of National who was urging the Greens to talk with National. He said it would be political suicide. No wonder I was confused!

194 comments on “National no friends ”

Comments are now closed

marty mars 1

2 October 2017 at 8:36 am

What a sad sack admission (planned and deliberately spoken about) from Bill. Did not return the call lol. English looks like, and is, a total loser around this. This is good theatre like married at first sight with ex partners – not good in any way and hard to turn away from.
- alwyn 1.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 2:01 pm
  
  Perhaps you should read the Herald.
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11928639
  Winston says he was up North and out of cell phone coverage but called Bill this morning.
  Now it appears to be the Labour leader who is panicking.
  Oh well. The joys of MMP and the negotiations with the wiliest politician in the country.
  When, I wonder, will the Labour Party break it to the Greens that, if Labour do manage to arrange a deal with Winston there will be, just as in 2005, no place at the adults table for the watermelons?
  As Yogi Berra might have said. “It will be deja vu all over again”. Perhaps the Green Party will learn this time around.
  - marty mars 1.1.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 2:16 pm
    
    Wow your esp is outstanding al, amazing talent – can you guess what I’m thinking about you now?
    - alwyn 1.1.1.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 5:55 pm
      
      All the evidence I have seen is that you are entirely incapable of intelligent thought.
      It is quite safe to say that, even if you are thinking, it is of no interest to anyone. Why therefore should I bother considering the matter any further?
      - marty mars 1.1.1.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:40 pm
        
        Well it could have built your credibility but sadly that is now unlikely. You seem to know what labour are thinking even though you are a rabid rightie – the only explanation is mind reading. Thus my offer to you which, through either fear or ignorance, you have declined.
    - CoroDale 1.1.1.2
      
      2 October 2017 at 8:47 pm
      
      “…no place at the adults’ table for the watermelons?”
      
      Some melons can age well, post harvest, for up to three months, increasing in colour and sweetness.
Carolyn_nth 2

2 October 2017 at 8:38 am

The National Party is showing their ugly bullying, dishonest face in this election. They show there is nothing they won’t do or say to hold onto power: no morals, and no principles other than winning and ruling according to whatever rules they make up at the moment.
- Wayne 2.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 9:05 pm
  
  Carolyn,
  
  Where on earth do you (and Tracey) get your “bullying” allegations from?
  
  Writing articles or giving interviews on the options for the Greens is not bullying, at least not in my world. It is normal free speech in a democracy, and I would note all the articles and suggestions I have read are in appropriately respectful language. Most also acknowledge it would be a big step for the Greens. The Greens are perfectly able to say “no”.
  
  As Jim Bolger said on Q &A, if you can’t even stand to have the question asked, maybe you should not be in Parliament.
  - mauī 2.1.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 9:25 pm
    
    Free speech in New Zealand is at the moment endless media talking points on:
    
    The Greens can go either way.
    Greens are missing out by not going with National.
    Greens are not using the power they hold.
    Greens haven’t achieved anything in Government.
    
    Why are there no articles or opinion pieces in the media on what a Labour-NZFirst-Green coalition would like then? What policies they might implement, etc. That would provide some balance wouldnt it? There is no free speech in our corporate media. That much is obvious.
- georgecom 2.2
  
  2 October 2017 at 10:40 pm
  
  I think National and it’s supporters is showing how desperate it is for government even suggesting a deal with the Greens. Not desperate in terms of the Greens offering some very good policies and mapping out a future that puts people and the planet first. But desperate in terms of trying anything to cling to power. And English is desperate to get what he has longed for since 2001, to be Prime Minister. I imagine he will be nervous as heck and feel sick every time he contemplates that the opportunity may slip through his fingers.
Andre 3

2 October 2017 at 8:50 am

It’s looked to me like the language of this whole issue has been that the Greens should be making all the moves to try to form a coalition with the Nats. I haven’t seen anything that says English or any other Nats have even attempted to approach the Greens. Let alone show they’re willing to turn around on any of the many issues where they are diametrically opposed to Greens principles.
- tc 3.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 10:07 am
  
  That’s the MSM messaging (Dirty Politics business as usual) which should not be confused for reality nor what the majority of voters officially called for ….CHANGE !
One Anonymous Bloke 4

2 October 2017 at 8:56 am

So significant they need building twice.

It’s hard to trust people when you can’t stop laughing at their hubris and incompetence.
- tc 4.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 11:00 am
  
  Yes drove that road earlier this year and was just gobsmacked at the appalling quality of it. It’s symbolic of the regime behind it, focused on appearing like they’re doing something when in fact it’s leaving a legacy of repair and rework.
  
  Why wasn’t the job wasn’t done properly first time ?
  
  Corners being cut and crony deals with the likes of FH/Fletchers/Downers possibly, it’s not the only shite road that’s been lauded as ‘moving NZ forward’ one pothole at a time was what they left off that slogan.
Pete 5

2 October 2017 at 8:58 am

So the smell isn’t the dead cat, it’s the crapped National nappies?
- marty mars 5.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 9:03 am
  
  Lol good one and so true
- mary_a 5.2
  
  2 October 2017 at 1:34 pm
  
  Pete @ (5) … now your comment reminds me of a saying I heard years ago. It goes something like this …
  
  ‘babies nappies and politicians are not dissimilar, because both need changing regularly, for the same reason.’
  
  So true.
AB 6

2 October 2017 at 9:01 am

The conclusion I am drawing from all this bizarre behaviour is that the intention is just to throw mud at MMP in general. Prepare the ground by persuading the public that MMP doesn’t work, then mount another attack on it via a Peter Shirtcliffe-style National Party proxy. If the Nats are thwarted, we are heading into dangerous times.
- One Anonymous Bloke 6.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 9:19 am
  
  They’ve already challenged the outcome of the election with this “moral right” bullshit. I can’t see Bill English suddenly becoming a decent honest man after all these years.
- Draco T Bastard 6.2
  
  2 October 2017 at 3:02 pm
  
  That’s the way I’m reading it. National, like all RWNJs, only like democracy when it delivers what they want. All other times they view it as illegitimate. It’s why they removed democracy in ECan and why they tried to get us to replace MMP with a worse system.
- Wayne 6.3
  
  2 October 2017 at 9:11 pm
  
  Given that the public have voted on MMP twice (1993and 2011) both times under National, I am pretty certain you won’t see such a campaign, at least not a serious campaign.
  
  As for “dangerous times”, don’t be ridiculous. New Zealand has elections every three years. If people want to change from a prior decision, it is easy to do so.
  
  One of the reasons we have such a peaceful democracy on any international scale is because all the political parties know they get to re-run the contest in just another three years.
  - AB 6.3.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 11:40 pm
    
    Well Wayne, by “dangerous”, I meant dangerous for democracy, not physically dangerous. At least not necessarily so, although right-wing violence is definitely a ‘thing’ as we saw in 1981, 1951 and particularly 1913. I think you are over-sanguine and complacent in these matters. (Deliberately so of course as the threat almost entirely comes from your end of the political spectrum)
    Both the MMP referenda were close-run things and both were befouled by well-funded campaigns from the business-right who will not easily tolerate an excess of democracy, and will clearly try again if conditions look propitious. Two defeats may make them circumspect, but they are tireless in their quest for domination.
Sanctuary 7

2 October 2017 at 9:05 am

This doesn’t surprise me. The media has worked itself into a terrible two tantrum over Winston Peter’s decision to wait until the specials are counted. But asking around my workplace and friends, there is a pretty broad consensus that it is perfectly reasonable to wait until all the votes are counted. People have got on with their lives, it is only the beltway obsessives who can’t cope with a fourteen day wait, and besides why is it going to take two weeks to count the specials anyway?

Into the vacuum has galloped a thousand opinion pieces of mostly rubbish, but we will know within a few weeks anyway.
- Pete 7.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 9:31 am
  
  The game has not finished, on the scoreboard they’re ‘sort of’ in front, but they want the cup to be presented, the medals to be handed out, their names to be carved on the doors and everyone else told to go home.
- CoroDale 7.2
  
  2 October 2017 at 5:51 pm
  
  Hope the electron board isn’t a State Owned and gnat operated…
Pat 8

2 October 2017 at 9:09 am

no friends and fighting against history….
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/10/01/50773/how-special-votes-could-change-the-election
- Phil 8.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 10:36 am
  
  There are quite a few issues with that Newsroom analysis
  
  1) 2014 appears to be an extreme case of left-gains and national-losses, at least compared to the previous two elections. If anyone has a longer history of special vote data, that would help to determine whether the Newsroom base case for 2017 is genuinely robust as a base case or starts with the playing field tilted slightly optimistically to the left.
  See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97255715/election-how-the-special-votes-have-fallen-in-past-elections
  
  2) The evidence for a 2017 youthquake seem weak. Yes, late-campaign enrollments were up (compared to 2014) but that seems to be an offset of early-campaign enrollments being down (again, compared to 2014). That would tend to support the idea of Jacindamania being roughly equal and offsetting to Littlenthusiasm (that catchphrase needs work…).
  
  3) The newsroom model makes no mention of TOP. Overseas voters tend to be younger and higher educated than the average voter, so i’d be very surprised if TOP didn’t improve their share as a result of this. TOP voters seem to have a lot of crossover with the Greens, so a big chunk of expected rise in the Green vote could bleed off to the TOP wasted vote.
  
  All in all, I expect National’s maximum losses on the special votes will be one seat to the Greens. The prospect of losing two seems more like optimistic wishful thinking from left activists.
  - BM 8.1.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 10:47 am
    
    There was no youthquake, watching newshub a couple of days back they quickly blurted out that youth enrolments were actually down this year, before rapidly moving on to the next article
    
    Obviously, a bit embarrassing for newshub when the facts didn’t quite correspond with the narrative they were trying so hard to push
    - One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.1.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 10:55 am
      
      No-one knows whether there was a ‘youthquake’ yet because the special votes haven’t been counted.
      
      Don’t let that stop you parroting someone else’s certainty as though it’s your own opinion, though.
    - Baba Yaga 8.1.1.2
      
      2 October 2017 at 1:48 pm
      
      You’re right, BM, there has been no ‘youthquake, but you will not get anyone in the media admitting it because it would be to accept they got the pre-election commentary wrong.
      
      The voter turnout in 2017 was 78.8%, in 2014 it was 77.9% (http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=256208). The voter turnout in 2014 was 74.21%, so the increase in 2017 was minimal.
      
      Here’s a link to an article by Bryce Edwards that makes it clear: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11924009. Quote:
      
      “In the initial stages of the election campaign, the Electoral Commission reported a surge of youth voter enrolments, which gave greater weight to the idea of a coming youthquake. Subsequently, however, enrolment numbers have slowed down considerably amongst the young. As of today, the total enrolments of 18-24 year-olds stands at 314,702, out of an estimated eligible population of 460,890, which means that only 68 per cent of this age group has enrolled. This is actually less than this time three years ago..”
      
      From my observation, Edwards, of all people, called this correctly before anyone else.
      - One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.1.2.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 1:55 pm
        
        From my observation, we won’t know what the demographics of the turnout were until the final result.
        
        Edwards hasn’t “called it”, he’s listed arguments for and against. Your “observation” is 100% projection.
        
        There’s a clue in the headline: “Political Roundup: Is a ‘youthquake’ looming, or not?”
        
        Baba Yaga 8.1.1.2.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 2:06 pm
        
        Yes, the final result will confirm the demographics; all I’m saying is that enrolment does give us something to work with now.
        
        Beyond that discussion, from http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2014-general-election/election-results-and-reporting/2014-general-election-voter-turnout, in 2014 only 62.73 of 18-24 year old enrolled voters voted, and only 62.11% of enrolled 25-29 year old voted. The nationwide average was 76.77%. My 20 year old son voted, but his partner didn’t. This level of participation by this age group is a tragedy IMHO.
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 2:10 pm
        
        something to work with
        
        Sure, and “work with” it you did. Or was it Mike Hosking: you all look the same to me.
        
        You’re right, BM, there has been no ‘youthquake, but you will not get anyone in the media admitting it because it would be to accept they got the pre-election commentary wrong.
        
        Baba Yaga …
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:18 pm
        
        The final enrolment data is available at http://www.elections.org.nz/research-statistics/enrolment-statistics-electorate.
        
        This shows that only 72.29% of the 18-24 age group enrolled, the lowest of any age bracket.
        
        In 2014 (http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2014-general-election/election-results-and-reporting/2014-general-election-voter-turnout) this same age group had the second lowest voter participation c.f. enrolments (62.73%).
        
        The numbers enrolled in the 18-25 bracket were 338,269 in 2014, 333,164 in 2017. In other words, the number of 18-24 years olds enrolled actually DECREASED, when the overall enrolments GREW from 3,140,417 to 3,298,009.
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:34 pm
        
        So 10% more in that age group enrolled. What’s the official definition of a “youthquake” again?
        
        Baba Yaga …
        
        2 October 2017 at 8:25 pm
        
        “So 10% more in that age group enrolled. ”
        
        No. Enrolment in that age group actually declined by just under 2%. Here’s the extract from my post above that includes the numbers:
        
        “The numbers enrolled in the 18-25 bracket were 338,269 in 2014, 333,164 in 2017. In other words, the number of 18-24 years olds enrolled actually DECREASED, when the overall enrolments GREW from 3,140,417 to 3,298,009.”
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 8:38 pm
        
        Are raw numbers the same as percentages on your planet?
        
        I can’t be bothered playing your games, Maninthemiddle.
        
        mickysavage …
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:20 pm
        
        Wait for the special votes and the final analysis Baba.
        
        Baba Yaga …
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:26 pm
        
        “Are raw numbers the same as percentages on your planet?”
        
        You made a mistake in reading the data, that’s all. You said “So 10% more in that age group enrolled.”
        
        The numbers enrolled in that age group DECREASED. There was no “10% more”.
        
        And stop calling me whatever your calling me.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:33 pm
        
        “Baba”?
        I’m interested in why you’ve chosen “Baba Yaga” as a handle, mitm?
        Baba Yaga has iron teeth, eats children and lives in a hut that stands on chicken legs – curious choice.
        
        McFlock …
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:46 pm
        
        I doubt it’s that sophisticated. “Baba Yaga” was the nickname russian mobsters gave the character John Wick in the movie of that name, if I recall correctly.
        
        Our Baby aga may just see themself as skewering countless faceless commenters with grace and skill, like Keanu in that movie. Twenty years ago they would have been jabbering about red pills and blue pills and spouting Baby’s First Cartesian Doubt (not my phrase but a good ‘un).
        
        It could always be a private reference to some personal or cultural experience, but… maybe not.
  - Pat 8.1.2
    
    2 October 2017 at 11:45 am
    
    1. not sure where you get the idea 2014 was extreme in terms of specials weighting…the Greens have always performed well in specials since inception…your own link supports that and clearly demonstrates the consistent left favourability
    
    2. there is as yet no evidence as to the size of the youth vote…that information will arrive with the specials results i believe….anecdotal however was sizeable numbers of young voters at early voting booths….this dosnt of course indicate preference however i would suggest Jacinda is the most likely beneficiary
    
    3. Tops share of the vote in general indicates it is not going to have any increased impact in specials.
    
    All in all I expect historical trend to continue with a possible improvement for labour resulting iin a change of seats of 1 or 2 for lab/green with an outside chance of 3…..and note wishful thinking exists on both sides of the divide
    - Phil 8.1.2.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 12:40 pm
      
      not sure where you get the idea 2014 was extreme in terms of specials weighting
      
      The stuff data shows that the Greens did disproportionately well in special votes in 2014, compared to 2011 and 2008. I don’t know (and neither do you, and neither does Newsroom) if 2014 presents a new-normal level of Green improvement on the special votes, or if it was a quirk of the 2014 election and the level of Green improvement returns to 08/11 levels. If it’s the latter (back to 08/11 levels) then it’s almost impossible for the Greens and Labour to gain two seats from National.
      
      there is as yet no evidence as to the size of the youth vote
      We know there were roughly 380,000 special votes – up on 2014 but not really materially so. We also know that youth enrollment during the campaign was, overall, not particularly unusual compared to past elections.
      
      anecdotal however was sizeable numbers of young voters at early voting booths
      
      Early voting was already counted on election night. If you mean early special voting (i.e. with registration) then we’ve already got a sense of it (see previous comment).
      
      Tops share of the vote in general indicates it is not going to have any increased impact in specials
      Like I said, Top’s target demographic was the young and well educated. I.e EXACTLY the stereotypical overseas voter. If Top improve their overall share after the specials, at the expense of the Greens (the most likely other party for young, well educated, overseas voters) that would do significant harm to the Greens chances of picking up seats.
      - Carolyn_nth 8.1.2.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 1:32 pm
        
        It may well be that the GP wil only gain one seat and the Nats none after special votes have been counted. Or, Lab-Green could gain 2 and the Nats lose 2 – we’ll just have to wait and see.
        
        Special votes include those who enrolled and voted at the same tome at advanced booths. This likely included a lot of young people.
        
        I have seen stats that show the proportion of votes to the main parties at University advance voting booths – that is from votes already counted. Labour got about 40+%, Nats in the 20s-30s, if I remember correctly, and the GP in the 20s also – very close to the Nat proportion.
      - Pat 8.1.2.1.2
        
        2 October 2017 at 2:05 pm
        
        “The stuff data shows that the Greens did disproportionately well in special votes in 2014, compared to 2011 and 2008. I don’t know (and neither do you, and neither does Newsroom) if 2014 presents a new-normal level of Green improvement on the special votes, or if it was a quirk of the 2014 election and the level of Green improvement returns to 08/11 levels. If it’s the latter (back to 08/11 levels) then it’s almost impossible for the Greens and Labour to gain two seats from National.”
        
        what the stuff data clearly shows is an increasing trend of left favourability in line with the increasing volume of specials….that trend of increased specials we know has continued therefore it is reasonable to expect the corresponding trend of increasing favourability will also continue.
        “The amount by which vote share changes has increased in each of the last three elections as the number of special votes has increased.”
        
        ‘We know there were roughly 380,000 special votes – up on 2014 but not really materially so. We also know that youth enrollment during the campaign was, overall, not particularly unusual compared to past elections.”
        
        An over 16% increase…and one we currently have no real knowledge of the makeup…..we know youth enrollment NOT including specials was not unusual ….we as yet know nothing of the demographics of those that enrolled and voted at the same time
        
        “Like I said, Top’s target demographic was the young and well educated. I.e EXACTLY the stereotypical overseas voter. If Top improve their overall share after the specials, at the expense of the Greens (the most likely other party for young, well educated, overseas voters) that would do significant harm to the Greens chances of picking up seats.”
        
        Irrespective of TOPs target demographic we know they achieved a 2% support level which will not reach the 5% threshold with specials and therefore its limited numbers will be excluded and have no material impact
        
        Phil 8.1.2.1.2.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 2:33 pm
        
        what the stuff data clearly shows is an increasing trend of left favourability in line with the increasing volume of specials
        
        Oh, come on, Pat. That is a weakest of weak-sauce arguments. All we’ve got is three data points and no idea what the history looked like before ’08, so to say there is a ‘clear’ trend is woeful misuse of data.
        
        Irrespective of TOPs target demographic we know they achieved a 2% support level which will not reach the 5% threshold with specials and therefore its limited numbers will be excluded and have no material impact
        
        With all due respect, you clearly don’t understand the MMP Sainte-Laguë
        allocation formula. If TOP increase their overall share of the vote, regardless of if they hit 5%, then that share has to come from somewhere. The Greens are an obvious candidate of where that TOP increase could come from. Anything that depresses the Green special vote reduces the chance they’ll pick up a seat on the specials.
        
        AND, because of the allocation formula, anything that increases the wasted vote (be it TOP, MP, or others) disproportionately benefits National, because they currently hold the 120th allocated seat and that’s the one most ‘at-risk’ of changing to another party.
        
        Pat …
        
        2 October 2017 at 2:47 pm
        
        “Oh, come on, Pat. That is a weakest of weak-sauce arguments. All we’ve got is three data points and no idea what the history looked like before ’08, so to say there is a ‘clear’ trend is woeful misuse of data.”
        
        lol…not as weak sauce trying to claim..” 2014 appears to be an extreme case of left-gains and national-losses,” with the same data
        
        as to understanding Sainte_Lague I understand it well enough to know that TOPs level of support within specials is not going to materially impact the final result….unless you believe TOP are going to soak up a significant proportion of the specials…a truly magnificent example of wishful thinking.
        
        As stated previously, my expectations are one to two seats moving left with an outside chance of 3…..your welcome to state your best guess and well see whos right come the weekend
        
        Phil …
        
        3 October 2017 at 9:23 am
        
        lol…not as weak sauce trying to claim..” 2014 appears to be an extreme case of left-gains and national-losses,” with the same data
        
        Ooooh, you almost got me. So close. If only you hadn’t completely misrepresented what I said:
        
        2014 appears to be an extreme case of left-gains and national-losses, at least compared to the previous two elections. If anyone has a longer history of special vote data, that would help to determine whether the Newsroom base case for 2017 is genuinely robust as a base case or starts with the playing field tilted slightly optimistically to the left.
        
        Pat …
        
        3 October 2017 at 10:40 am
        
        lol…no need for a gotcha when you are already stumbling over the data…. seriously after 20 hours thats the best you can come up with?….and still no best guess based on your superior analysis?…now theres a surprise
        
        Phil …
        
        3 October 2017 at 1:32 pm
        
        after 20 hours thats [sic] the best you can come up with?
        
        1) I had to work.
        2) Fuck you.
        
        and still no best guess based on your superior analysis?
        
        I don’t trade in guesses. I let the data tell me what it can and (unlike you, apparently) don’t try to make shit up on the fly.
        
        For National to lose three seats, that would require their portion of the specials to be as low as 35%. That’s almost laughably absurd.
        
        The Greens will almost certainly pick up a seat. Anything more than 6.8%-ish of the specials would get them there, and that seat would most likely come from National (because they have the 120th seat allocation). For the Greens to gain a second seat, they would have to get approximately 12.3%.
        
        The problem for ‘The Left’ is that the 119th seat is currently allocated to Labour. This means that if the Greens pick up two seats, they’re more likely to be 1xNat and a 1xLab pickup, than 2xNat pickup.
        
        But, ALL OF THIS depends on the wasted vote. The greater the wasted vote compared to election night, even if it’s only a few 10th’s of a percent, could be the difference between National losing one or two seats.
        
        Pat …
        
        5 October 2017 at 12:08 am
        
        “I don’t trade in guesses. I let the data tell me what it can and (unlike you, apparently) don’t try to make shit up on the fly.”
        
        “All in all, I expect National’s maximum losses on the special votes will be one seat to the Greens. The prospect of losing two seems more like optimistic wishful thinking from left activists.”
        
        https://thestandard.org.nz/national-no-friends/#comment-1394940
        
        “For National to lose three seats, that would require their portion of the specials to be as low as 35%. That’s almost laughably absurd.”
        
        https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jrn6_5uCoAYfqBmc9R64nza4oHlua3rCsoykpLQrjII/edit#gid=654160597
        
        dont trip over your own feet on the way out…
        
        Phil …
        
        3 October 2017 at 12:52 pm
        
        TOPs level of support within specials is not going to materially impact the final result….unless you believe TOP are going to soak up a significant proportion of the specials…a truly magnificent example of wishful thinking.
        
        I literally do not know how to say it any simpler, so i’ll just requote my previous comment.
        
        If TOP increase their overall share of the vote, regardless of if they hit 5%, then that share has to come from somewhere. The Greens are an obvious candidate of where that TOP increase could come from. Anything that depresses the Green special vote reduces the chance they’ll pick up a seat on the specials.
        
        AND, because of the allocation formula, anything that increases the wasted vote (be it TOP, MP, or others) disproportionately benefits National, because they currently hold the 120th allocated seat and that’s the one most ‘at-risk’ of changing to another party.
      - Craig H 8.1.2.1.3
        
        2 October 2017 at 2:44 pm
        
        A key difference between 2011 and now is that overseas specials had to be faxed or posted, and faxes were getting very difficult to find, but from 2014 could also be scanned and uploaded to a secure online server.
        
        Wayne 8.1.2.1.3.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:21 pm
        
        Craig,
        
        But the Electoral Commission already know how many in this category (overseas votes). I believe it is 91,000.
        
        I personally think it is ridiculous we have to wait 14 days for the specials to be counted.
        
        Most of the specials are votes of registered electors who cast their vote outside their electorate, either on the day or in the preceding two weeks. These have probably already been counted. Why can’t that total be released? After all we get progressive counts on election night. We don’t wait till midnight for a single announcement.
        
        The two week period is because overseas postal votes have two weeks to come in. But how many of these will there be these days. Probably not many.
        
        I would hope the Parliamentary Select Committee that deals with all of this in the upcoming Parliament will sort tis out. We should be able to do better than waiting two weeks.
        
        Craig H …
        
        3 October 2017 at 9:55 am
        
        Wayne,
        
        I agree. I was commenting on the idea that 2014 was an outlier compared to 2011 – basically, I think 2014 was closer to the new norm for final outcomes of special votes because of the change in how overseas special votes are allowed to be cast.
    - Baba Yaga 8.1.2.2
      
      2 October 2017 at 1:51 pm
      
      “2. there is as yet no evidence as to the size of the youth vote…that information will arrive with the specials results i believe….anecdotal however was sizeable numbers of young voters at early voting booths….this dosnt of course indicate preference however i would suggest Jacinda is the most likely beneficiary”
      
      The information is available already based on enrolments. Please see my link above to a Bryce Edwards article in which he claims that enrolments in the 18-24 age range were actually down on the same stage in 2014 (article written 19/9/17).
      - One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.2.2.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 2:06 pm
        
        The information Edwards cites is based on an article published at Libertas on 15th September. It says:
        
        …there’s no sign of a youthquake this election. But there are signs of a significant greyquake. While there’s still time for that to change, it would have to be a massive upswing in 18-24-year-old enrolments in the 11 days from 12 September to the election.
        
        My bold.
        
        Meanwhile, in reality, it doesn’t have to be “massive”.
        
        Note that this article doesn’t make any predictions either.
        
        Baba Yaga 8.1.2.2.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:21 pm
        
        The enrolments for the youngest voting bracket are actually down on 2014. You’re right, the voting % may rise dramatically within this age group, but its clear the youth quake didn’t extend to getting a lot of extra people to enrol.
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 8:40 pm
        
        Nah, just lots more of them voted 🙄
      - Pat 8.1.2.2.2
        
        2 October 2017 at 2:12 pm
        
        as noted above those numbers do not include specials which contain those who enrolled and voted at the same time, part of the 385000,,,so in effect those stats are worthless when determining final data, …we do know there was an increase in voter numbers by 150,000 however.
        
        Craig H 8.1.2.2.2.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 2:45 pm
        
        And before seeing the results of the specials, it looks like all of them effectively voted Labour or TOP.
        
        Baba Yaga 8.1.2.2.2.2
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:24 pm
        
        “so in effect those stats are worthless when determining final data”
        
        No they aren’t. Enrolments are at least an indicator of where change may occur, because they provide us with the age make-up of the registered voter demographic. That is, assuming the theory that the younger disproportionately vote left. That itself may no longer apply.
    - Baba Yaga 8.1.2.3
      
      2 October 2017 at 4:19 pm
      
      “there is as yet no evidence as to the size of the youth vote”
      
      The total number of 18-24 years olds enrolled actually dropped between 2014 and 2017.
      - Pat 8.1.2.3.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 5:25 pm
        
        two points which you continue to ignore….first the youth vote is both the 18/24 and the 25/29 demographics…and more importantly you ignore the fact anyone was able to enrol and vote at the same time for the first time and as these are classed as special votes of which we have 385000 we have as yet no idea of the youth turnout…the stats you insist on quoting only apply to the preliminary turnout which we know was only 85% of the total and not necessarily representative of the specials distribution so cannot be automatically extrapolated…..but you can have your reasoning and Ill stick with mine and we will all find out at the weekend.
        
        Baba Yaga 8.1.2.3.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 8:38 pm
        
        “…first the youth vote is both the 18/24 and the 25/29 demographics…”
        
        Wow that’s a stretch…29 year olds described as ‘youth’? But ok, let’s look at those numbers.
        
        The total enrolments within the two demographics added together were:
        
        2014: 583,645
        2017: 604,331
        
        So even using your parameters, the increase in enrolments is still only 3.5%, less than the overall (all demographics) increase of 5%.
        
        “and more importantly you ignore the fact anyone was able to enrol and vote at the same time for the first time and as these are classed as special votes of which we have 385,000 we have as yet no idea of the youth turnout…”
        
        No, I haven’t ignored that because I haven’t been basing my position on voter turnout but on enrolments. The idea being touted was that we would have a ‘youthquake’. The data proves that the enrolment rate of youth (even given your rather broad definition) is well below the national average. How can you have a ‘youthquake’ with a lower enrolment increase than all other demographics together?
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 8:41 pm
        
        By turnout being higher.
        
        Baba Yaga …
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:13 pm
        
        But given the enrolment trend, turnout would have to be massively higher in that demographic. And as a fair number of the 18-24 would be first time voters, then…well you can’t vote if you’re not enrolled.
        
        Pat …
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:34 pm
        
        “No, I haven’t ignored that because I haven’t been basing my position on voter turnout but on enrolments. The idea being touted was that we would have a ‘youthquake’. The data proves that the enrolment rate of youth (even given your rather broad definition) is well below the national average. How can you have a ‘youthquake’ with a lower enrolment increase than all other demographics together?”
        
        because enrollments do not determine votes…turnout does.
        its all very well being enrolled but you need to get off your arse and vote for it to count.
        
        In 2014 583,645 18/29 yr olds enrolled but only 364,613 actually voted
        in 2017 604.331 enrolled BUT WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY VOTED until the official count is completed…..that is where the scope is for an unmeasured youth quake
        
        http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2014-general-election/election-results-and-reporting/2014-general-election-voter-turnout
        
        for all we know half of those 385000 votes may be under 29 yr olds
        
        Baba Yaga …
        
        2 October 2017 at 10:15 pm
        
        “because enrollments do not determine votes…turnout does.”
        Until we know the turnout, your point is irrelevant. What is relevant, is that interest amongst the youngest demographic, as measured by enrolment, is tepid, at best.
        
        Pat …
        
        2 October 2017 at 10:43 pm
        
        until we know the turnout ALL points are irrelevant…especially enrolments, thats the point
  - swordfish 8.1.3
    
    2 October 2017 at 3:46 pm
    
    Phil
    
    Election Night vs Final Results
    Party-Vote %
    
    Election Night … Final Result … Diff
    
    National
    2014
    48.06 ……………… 47.04 …… Down 1.02
    
    2011
    47.99 ……………… 47.31 …… Down 0.68
    
    2008
    45.45 ……………… 44.93 …… Down 0.52
    
    2005
    39.64 ……………….. 39.10 …… Down 0.54
    
    .
    
    Labour
    2014
    24.69 ……………… 25.13 …… Up 0.44
    
    2011
    27.13 ……………… 27.48 …… Up 0.35
    
    2008
    33.77 ……………… 33.99 …… Up 0.22
    
    2005
    40.73 ……………….. 41.10 …… Up 0.37
    
    .
    
    Green
    2014
    10.02 ……………… 10.70 …… Up 0.68
    
    2011
    10.62 ……………… 11.06 …… Up 0.44
    
    2008
    6.43 ……………….. 6.72 ..……. Up 0.29
    
    2005
    5.07 ……………….. 5.30 ….….. Up 0.23
    
    .
    
    NZF
    2014
    8.85 ……………… 8.66 …… Down 0.19
    
    2011
    6.81 ……………… 6.59 …… Down 0.22
    
    2008
    4.21 ……………… 4.07 …… Down 0.14
    
    2005
    5.84 ……………… 5.72 …… Down 0.12
    
    Wouldn’t surprise me if Labour – rather than the Greens – turn out to be the main beneficiary of the Specials (similar to 05 – only more so)
    - Phil 8.1.3.1
      
      3 October 2017 at 2:43 pm
      
      Thanks Swordfish – those are useful.
      
      The Greens don’t need to win a much higher percentage of the specials than their election night tally to win an extra seat. It would be a massive undershoot of their past history to not pick up a seat – they only need 6.5 or 6.6% of the specials to get it.
  - swordfish 8.1.4
    
    2 October 2017 at 4:03 pm
    
    Phil
    
    The newsroom model makes no mention of TOP. Overseas voters tend to be younger and higher educated than the average voter, so i’d be very surprised if TOP didn’t improve their share as a result of this. TOP voters seem to have a lot of crossover with the Greens, so a big chunk of expected rise in the Green vote could bleed off to the TOP wasted vote.
    
    Both you & the MSM Punditry place too much emphasis on Overseas voters – they in fact comprise a pretty small % of Specials
    
    2014
    Overseas Specials 38000 …,,… 12,7%
    NZ-based Specials 263000 …… 87,3%
    - Pat 8.1.4.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 5:26 pm
      
      lol….knew you would have the numbers somewhere
    - Incognito 8.1.4.2
      
      2 October 2017 at 9:38 pm
      
      Special declaration votes still to be counted are estimated at 384,072 (15% of total votes). This includes an estimated 61,375 overseas and dictation votes.
      
      http://www.elections.org.nz/news-media/preliminary-results-2017-general-election
      
      So, in 2017 it is 16.0 vs. 84.0%.
marty mars 9

2 October 2017 at 9:11 am

Joyless sex, jealousy, curfews, scandals and it gets worse – oh sorry wrong headlines for another pretender.
- Stuart Munro 9.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 9:02 pm
  
  For a moment there I thought Glenys had released Bill’s texts 😉
CraigGlenEden 10

2 October 2017 at 9:22 am
Molly 11

2 October 2017 at 10:08 am

“”Until now, the people urging Greens to consider talks with National have come from outside the party.”… I always thought that senior National ministers were members of the National Party. Have I missed something?”

I assumed that badly written sentence meant that the urging people were from outside the Green Party. If you take that interpretation, it works. Still pitiful, as a method of filling column inches though.
Ad 12

2 October 2017 at 10:54 am

Get ready for New Zealand FIrst on the cross benches, and the Governor-General having to sort two competing bids. Final Result Day doesn’t mean we have a government.
- patricia bremner 12.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 11:48 am
  
  12. Well as I have said in earlier posts, “A wounded National is a dangerous beast”
  
  They are muddying the waters, and with the repeated impatience of their journalist friends constantly carping about Winston, they’re creating a feeling of unfair outcomes under MMP.
  
  Even James Shaw has been convinced to comment. Now the call to Winston.
  
  They want us to see National as reasonable.
  
  Ready to build that “brighter future” in tandem with the Greens, now we have the money.
  
  National feels it is a shame these selfish people are rorting the system!! Tell you what, it would work better if …..
  
  So, when Winston makes his move there is a climate of anger and impatience carefully cultivated, to test the legitimacy of the decision. Imagine the headlines!!!
- alwyn 12.2
  
  2 October 2017 at 6:09 pm
  
  It would make a difference whether Winston said whether his party would vote, or abstain on a Confidence and Supply issue, and I think the G-G would ask him that very question.
  If he said he would abstain only National would be able to form a Government. In the absence of a NZF vote they would win a C&S vote whereas Labour/Green would lose.
  That assumes of course that National don’t lose 4 seats to Labour and the Green parties.
Whispering Kate 13

2 October 2017 at 10:56 am

Nandor Tanczos said on the RNZ news this morning that he thought that a coalition with National by the Greens would not be a good thing this time around. He then did go on and say that Labour and National are very similar and that the Greens need to make sure they preserve their own integrity and image and continues that image exactly as is supposed to be – for sustainability – not endless growth at the expense of the planet. He didn’t dismiss entirely that a coalition with National couldn’t be on the cards but not this time.

Labour in the past hasn’t been kind to its friends and the Greens should be well aware of that.
Cinny 14

2 October 2017 at 11:23 am

Not long to wait now, does anyone know what time on Saturday we will know the results of the specials please?
DSpare 15

2 October 2017 at 11:32 am

I saw a cutdown version of the linked Herald article in the ODT (attributed to NZME rather than Davison, so good to see the original was a bit better). Where there was an error in the very first line by describing Tanczos as; “a former Greens co-leader” (the closest he came was being beaten by his former assistant Norman in 2006).

The bit that stuck out was the truly pathetic claim of (note the number of highly speculative “could”s):

Common ground In National and Greens

Biodiversity/pest control: National have set a goal of ridding NZ of pests by 2050, and could be open to the Greens’ policy of doubling funding for Department of the Conservation rangers.

Climate change: The two parties fundamentally disagree on whether farmers should be accountable for their emissions. But National could be persuaded to lift its emissions target.

Water quality: National could be persuaded to act faster on cleaning up New Zealand’s rivers, or increase the number of rivers which will be cleaned up.

Public transport: National is increasingly under pressure to fix Auckland’s transport woes, and could agree to Green policies like bringing forward rail from the CBD to the airport.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/election-2017/ex-pm-says-talk-national
RedLogix 16

2 October 2017 at 11:40 am

MMP is in trouble; every minor party that goes into coalition with either Lab or Nat comes out of it damaged and at risk of going below 5%. As a result the minors … essential to forming govt …. are increasingly reluctant to form coalitions.

Right now there are four theoretical coalition govts we could form, assuming the minimum number of seats required for a Parliamentary majority:

1. Nat/NZ1

2. Nat/Grn

3. Nat/Lab

4. Lab/NZ1/Grn

None of these options feels like a natural fit of policy, trust and history, none of them looks any more likely than the others, and none of them feels anything like a ‘win’ for progressive politics. On the face of it, which option we finish up with at this stage is a roll of the dice.

But given that 3 out of 4 of these options includes the Nats, the OP article “National No Mates” isn’t all that grounded in reality. Yes they’ve got no natural allies in Parliament … but neither does anyone else.

Perhaps the least worst outcome right now would be Option 3 … the so called ‘Grand Coalition’ between the two parties with probably the most in common.
- Paul Campbell 16.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 12:14 pm
  
  5. Nat/NZ1/Grn
  - Paul Campbell 16.1.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 12:15 pm
    
    5. Nat/NZ1/Grn
    
    but point taken
    - RedLogix 16.1.1.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 12:27 pm
      
      Yeah … theoretically possible, but not needed for a majority so I discounted it.
- tuppence shrewsbury 16.2
  
  2 October 2017 at 1:05 pm
  
  Maybe Nat / Grn will be be the biggest win for progressive politics. very few people seem to have considered how dragging national further left will further erode the support for the right in new zealand. the immediate policy concessions from national to the greens will be substantially more progressive than anything labour and NZF will provide with the greens shut out of real power.
  - RedLogix 16.2.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 1:17 pm
    
    Agreed. The difference in value drivers between National and the Greens would make such a coalition really tough in practise; but in terms of pure political interests it has certain radical logic to it.
    
    National do tend to be somewhat more pragmatic in their thinking, so it’s not all that surprising they’re pushing the idea out there … whether we trust their motives or not is another question.
    - Phil 16.2.1.1
      
      4 October 2017 at 12:37 pm
      
      National do tend to be somewhat more pragmatic in their thinking, so it’s not all that surprising they’re pushing the idea out there
      
      Imagine if the situation were reversed – something like Labour needed one of NZF and… ACT?… to form a governing coalition while National needed both NZF and ACT.
      
      I would 100% expect that Labour would try to strengthen its bargaining position with NZF by raising the prospect of working with ACT. That’s just politics, plain and simple.
  - One Anonymous Bloke 16.2.2
    
    2 October 2017 at 1:28 pm
    
    National agrees to do the right thing* under duress. Apparently you don’t see that as unusual in any way.
    
    *terms and conditions apply.
    - RedLogix 16.2.2.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 1:42 pm
      
      Apparently you don’t see that as unusual in any way.
      
      No I don’t; of all the parties they are the least ideological; they will ‘do whatever it takes to maintain power’ if you want to express it in those terms.
      
      Which means they’re the party most likely to approach negotiations with all the options in play. And they have more plays available to them than anyone else at the moment.
      - One Anonymous Bloke 16.2.2.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 1:50 pm
        
        My reply was to Tuppence Shrewsbury.
        
        I agree, it isn’t unusual behaviour for National.
    - tuppence shrewsbury 16.2.2.2
      
      2 October 2017 at 4:06 pm
      
      I don’t see it in such a binary FPP way as you do, where whoever performs misogynistic chest thumping the loudest about how their way is right and all other ways are wrong.
      
      I’m thinking about how, from a progressive point of view, taking the largest party and natural leader of the right and curtailing their ability to impose right wing policy through being in cabinet with them, could create the fastest progressive and environmental gains in New Zealand.
      
      Far more progressive and environmentally friendly than Labour / NZ first with their strong conservative rumps could ever hope to enact while shitting on the greens as irrelevant to the conversation.
      
      But because national might get power again as a result of the conversation and it was all taken for granted that the greens support labour, it’s all to scary for the “serious” green voters and the daffy do nothing mp’s who are on the way out.
      
      thump your chest some more OAB. I love that personal tinge of reactionary negativism you bring to the conversation when something new rears up and scares your (desultory) thought process to an outcome it couldn’t possibly have foreseen, as you don’t agree with it.
      
      I think the real terror amongst the anti-nat / green proponents is that they secretly fear it might be the most successful coalition since New Zealand had MMP.
      - One Anonymous Bloke 16.2.2.2.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:20 pm
        
        My desultory thought process? Regarding the Greens’ position I’m guided chiefly by what James Shaw and various other actual Green MPs and members say.
        
        I’m not in the least bit worried that National will get power again as a result of the desperate lies they’re telling and you’re repeating, I’d just like to know why you vote for a party that only does the right thing under duress.
        
        As for “progressive” – is this the new talking point? The National Party is “progressive”. Hilarity ensues 😆
        
        Edit: the only “real terror” is that which you’re projecting. Savour it.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury 16.2.2.2.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:33 pm
        
        the national party is progressive in many ways. Maybe not what you consider to be progressive, but it’s a subjective term. I’m saying that the greens would make the government progressive as you see it. WOW!! MMP!
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:37 pm
        
        I’m saying I don’t see how that could work, because the National Party’s word is worthless, and everything James Shaw said.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:46 pm
        
        The strong centre right party of the last with the principled left leaning enviromentalism of the greens. Far more palatable to voters in 2020 than the has-been, the nearly-was and some others. that’s the real issue here
        
        Plus everything James Shaw said means nothing when he realises that he can’t achieve anything by trying to little sibling with labour when they’re all starry eyed with winnie.
        
        David seymour may be the highest paid beneficiary, but it now looks like the party who support rorting the system may join that illustrious group
        
        James Shaw knows what he can achieve if he starts talking with national. If he pulls the proverbial rabbit out of the hat and presents it to the green party, then lets the green party decide. ruling it out now is not MMP. All those on the left who normally support labour know it weakens labours position, hence the vehement opposition to it
        
        the dance of the seven veils doesn’t only have to be performed by drunken octogenarians to be sexy.
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:48 pm
        
        So your argument is all about insulting other parties. You really really don’t understand the way the Greens do politics eh.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:50 pm
        
        How is it insulting of the greens to realise that neither lab or nzf will never take the greens seriously if they don’t go and actually make a play to get their green policies enacted? exactly as winnie is doing right now.
        
        the Greens really don’t understand MMP if they think it’s insulting to just take being insulted and not at leat talk with the nats
        
        red-blooded …
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:54 pm
        
        Hmmm… I don’t endorse TS’s line of thought, but I will point out that a heck of a lot of Green supporters spend a heck of a lot of time insulting other parties on this site. Prior to the election, I was constantly saying things like, “You can express your support for the Greens without running down Labour”.
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 5:01 pm
        
        More projection, with a side-order of desperation. It’s music to my ears but please don’t expect to be taken seriously: your word is worth as much as National’s.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        2 October 2017 at 5:46 pm
        
        desperation is Labour right now, hoping the greens don’t throw compost over the winston deal.
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 5:50 pm
        
        Labour did it too? Then you’re on familiar territory 😆
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:27 pm
        
        Confusing past and present tense again OAB?
        
        easy enough mistake when you can’t quite believe that all parties have options, and not just the ones you like
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        2 October 2017 at 7:53 pm
        
        National have no mates. You’re just going to have to choke on it.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        3 October 2017 at 1:41 pm
        
        National have a position of power and series of policies they’d like to see enacted in this parliamentary term. They may be willing to negotiate with either the greens or nzf as to how much of this and how strongly national these policies are. No doubt the greens and nzf, being their own parties with their own principals, will have much the same agenda.
        
        Maybe each could find common ground with National and national can form a minority government. Maybe the greens owe labour nothing and they can sit on the cross benches if labour and Nzf form a coalition.
        
        But that would be too radical and progressive for you to consider, so you’d probably choke on it.
        
        For someone who bangs on so much on this site, you really don’t understand the potential MMP brings.
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        3 October 2017 at 1:48 pm
        
        Keep telling yourself that.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        4 October 2017 at 8:35 am
        
        showing the paucity of understanding of politics there ol chap. Must hurt coming to the conclusion that labour can’t count on greens being their “little buddy”
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        4 October 2017 at 8:56 am
        
        I’m a Green voter. Sorry, did you just waste a whole lot of wishful thinking and projection? Oops.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        4 October 2017 at 9:48 am
        
        Feel good about standing in the way of progress by voting green but not allowing them to make a difference?
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        4 October 2017 at 6:23 pm
        
        Not allowing them
        
        Ok you got me: I ackshully have the power of mind control over all members of the Green Party. I use HAARP to mess with their frequencies and Buzz Aldrin does the rest.
        
        I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for you pesky kid.
        
        In Vino …
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:37 pm
        
        What tendentious waffle! No chance of it tuppence. You need to up your understanding of the Greens.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        2 October 2017 at 4:48 pm
        
        Maybe the greens need to up their understanding of MMP and just how much power they currently hold under it. How much power that could be used for GREEN purposes.
        
        They don’t even have to jump into bed, just go on a date and sound each other out. Bit pointless not to do at least that. Go get a free meal and some nice wine instead of being dateless and alone as your crush is out with the old bugger from up the road.
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:28 pm
        
        Yeah yeah.
        
        “The Greens are sitting on a goldmine! Look at all that cheddar!”
        
        That’s unobtanium – so named ‘cos you ain’t getting it.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:36 pm
        
        Interesting that you look at it from the viewpoint that only National want something out of the talks. the greens shouldn’t engage if they don’t wish to progress their agenda.
        
        So it’s Labour & NZF, and somehow that’s progressive?
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:43 pm
        
        There’s no point in talking to crooks unless you mean to become one.
        
        The Gnats are beyond the pale. Lying to parliament and stealing public money are not compatible with any ethics, much less Green ethics.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:22 pm
        
        *cheesy grin!
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        3 October 2017 at 1:42 pm
        
        and yet you talk to yourself in the mirror every day telling yourself how right you are about everything.
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        3 October 2017 at 1:47 pm
        
        Oh I’m sorry – is there some reason I’m supposed to favour your opinion above my own?
        
        Make an argument if you can, and if you can’t, go and jump in the lake.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        4 October 2017 at 8:40 am
        
        Stuart, i’ve made plenty of arguments about this. The sole response I get it is “Nah-ah, cos National”
        
        lets talk about the idea of a change in government, a national lead government really isn’t possible with the greens as a coalition partner. It would have to be a partnership precisely because of the values the greens would rightly adhere too if they entered into a coalition with “the natz”. So National has to work with the greens, which means becoming green. which then raises the issue of who is the senior party in the coalition?
        
        This is MMP politics 101, but all the anti-nat green cheerleaders are still stuck in high school.
        
        You made some christmas cracker joke about a natural mineral and think you’ve made an argument. You in particular are stuck in Kindergarten.
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        4 October 2017 at 8:52 am
        
        Well you can’t expect to persuade people when you are so blatantly in error.
        
        It happens sometimes, that we must retreat from cherished but indefensible prejudices.
        
        The Gnats have departed so far from the ordinary principles of Westminster government that even Winston, who basically prefers their worldview, is likely to feel obliged to give them a miss.
        
        How the Greens, who are by no means their natural ally, are to stomach them when he cannot is difficult to imagine.
        
        In Vino …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:29 pm
        
        More emotional waffle. The Greens themselves understand their situation far better than you do because you see it in pictures of dating. How pretentious of you to suggest that the Greens do not understand MMP. They exist largely because of it. They know more about the ‘power’ you and your Nats pretend to offer than you yourself – largely because they have watched how it has been wielded. Go to Tinder if that is your main interest.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:40 pm
        
        I see it in terms of mmp, parties coalescing on points where they can and disengaging on areas they can’t.
        
        Dating is an apt analogy as each party is trying to jockey for attention with the voters and then translate that attention into something they believe to be useful and beneficial.
        
        The “greens” you are talking about will consign their party to sitting on the largest organic compost heap looking very smug but achieving next to nothing. I would have thought if you could achieve more by being part of the community that will have to strive achieve the greens goals, the greens would be being truer to their own principles. Not just turning the other cheek ‘coz nationl
        
        In Vino …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:57 pm
        
        Tuppence – Your silly prattle about sacrificing all else to get some temporary influence (‘power’ to you) says once again that you are in no position to offer advice to the Greens. I am sure that the Nats would value your guidance.. The Nats have nothing else to sacrifice in any case.
        
        McFlock …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:31 pm
        
        Get a “free meal” and lots of nice wine from a boring sociopath who will try to manipulate you into doing something you really don’t want to do… yeah, more fun to stay home and wash your hair, methinks.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:42 pm
        
        Are the greens so naive they’d be that easily manipulated? you should cut the patronising tone. if they can’t get what they want out of being the real power broker in parliament then everyone should stop listening to them.
        
        They’ve got as many seats if not more than winnie once specials are in
        
        McFlock …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:54 pm
        
        Dude, it’s not about power and manipulation between parties. It’s about whether the next government is good for the people and the environment, or not. National will be bad for both, and if it’s with the greens’ assistance the greens will go sub-5% quicker than you can say “tory lackey”. National cannot be good for people or the environment: national’s priorities are corporate capitalists and corporate farmers.
        
        The method the greens have to get a government that’s good for people and the environment is simple: they can only support, via a direct decision of its membership, a government that will be good for the environment and for people. Any party or combination of parties that cannot fulfill that requirement will never get green support. There’s not even any point “negotiating” about it.
        
        But a party or combination of parties that might be able to fulfill that request can negotiate policy specifics with the greens, and if their objectives are close enough to green objectives, the coalition deal will go through.
        
        Green policy will happen via a support agreement. If Labour and NZ1 want that support, they’ll be close to green values. Otherwise, Labour won’t be in government.
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        2 October 2017 at 6:56 pm
        
        @TP
        
        They’ve said they’ll listen. That’s frankly amazingly generous considering what a tainted offering the Gnats are.
        
        In Vino …
        
        3 October 2017 at 12:20 am
        
        Well said McFlock. I will want to copy and paste that one for many future ripostes.. That is the one starting ‘Dude’.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        3 October 2017 at 1:46 pm
        
        How can national be bad for the environment if they need the greens for supply and confidence? the critical part of forming a government.
        
        National: “Greens, what do you want in return for you support on supply and confidence?”
        
        Greens: “enact our conservation policies with no amendment”
        
        National: “Interesting, worth considering”
        …….
        
        McFlock – “No… nationals involved so automatically this is bad for the environment”
        
        See how naive and anti-environmental this anti-national stance could end up being for the greens? they could get every single environmental policy they campaigned on introduced in one term. And achieve way more than they have in what, 7 terms, of supporting labour through government and opposition?
        
        McFlock …
        
        3 October 2017 at 2:41 pm
        
        they could get every single environmental policy they campaigned on introduced in one term
        
        Bullshit.
        
        Every single one of these?
        Lol – yeah, right.
        
        Oh, the greens might get one or two tokens for things that even the nats know are on their way in anyway, but every single policy? Nowhere near.
        
        tuppence shrewsbury …
        
        4 October 2017 at 8:42 am
        
        If they get even half of them, is that not better than waiting another 3 years for the chance to get maybe one of them.
        
        This, not MT’s moment of clarity, is the real opportunity for the greens to become the 2nd major party in parliament. It’s juvenile to disregard the opportunity.
        
        The 2nd major party isn’t the one with the largest amount of seats in opposition, they’re just the opposition party. Think about it a while
        
        McFlock …
        
        4 October 2017 at 12:55 pm
        
        Oh, so now it’s gone from every single one to half of them. You’re pulling the likely success rate out of the same place national will draw their coalition promises to the greens, and by the time the promises are demonstrably false the greens have provided support to the fuckwits for two years. For which they’ll have nothing to show.
        
        Way to commit electoral suicide. Thanks for the advice, please give it to someone else.
        
        Stuart Munro 16.2.2.2.1.2
        
        3 October 2017 at 12:11 am
        
        The Gnats are progressive. In the same way as Hogarth’s Rake.
- DoublePlusGood 16.3
  
  2 October 2017 at 1:40 pm
  
  Sorry, how exactly does this mean MMP is in trouble? People and parties have to work together collaboratively to govern, and that is somehow bad for our system of government?
  - RedLogix 16.3.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 1:46 pm
    
    The primary purpose of MMP is to prevent concentration of power into one party and represent a diversity of interests.
    
    But right now all the minor parties … essential to fulfilling this purpose … face an existential crisis every time they form a coalition.
    - left_forward 16.3.1.1
      
      3 October 2017 at 7:56 am
      
      I would say that proportional representation is the primary purpose. This may freely result in having a party with over 50% of the vote, so it wasn’t designed to prevent the concentration of power in one party.
      To improve proportionaloty and better assist smaller parties, we should remove the 5% threshold as recommended by the Electoral Commission a few years back (totally ignored by the Gnats).
      - RedLogix 16.3.1.1.1
        
        3 October 2017 at 8:46 am
        
        This may freely result in having a party with over 50% of the vote,
        
        True enough. Still in practice having more than 3 or 4 parties around makes this much less likely than with FPP where it was a certainty every election.
        
        Keep in mind also that MMP was only introduced in NZ in response to the Muldoon and Lange govts who both grossly abused their absolute power.
        
        left_forward 16.3.1.1.1.1
        
        3 October 2017 at 2:29 pm
        
        I agree that MMP created the opportunity for minor parties and that it reduced the likelihood of >50% parties, but this wasn’t its primary purpose.
        The specific problem was the sequence of Governments being elected under FPP that didn’t have >50% of the support of the electorate.
        
        There may well have been people who voted for MMP in the referenda who were motivated to break up the duopoly of the two larger parties – but that was not the fundamental motive of those who initially proposed electoral reform.
        
        I am making these points because I believe that your argument that ‘MMP is in trouble’ is wrong. MMP is not in trouble because a return to a non-proportional system would not be in the best interests of democracy in NZ.
        
        Andre …
        
        3 October 2017 at 2:38 pm
        
        The memory of 78 and 81 would have still been fairly fresh. Where Labour candidates won more of the popular vote than National candidates, but National won more seats giving us Muldoon. And Social Credit candidates got a large share of the popular vote (16% and 20%) but only one or two seats to show for it.
        
        http://www.elections.org.nz/events/past-events/general-elections-1890-1993
        
        left_forward …
        
        3 October 2017 at 2:50 pm
        
        Thanks Andre – I had forgotten about the 20% to Social Credit with two seats.
- Draco T Bastard 16.4
  
  2 October 2017 at 3:11 pm
  
  But given that 3 out of 4 of these options includes the Nats, the OP article “National No Mates” isn’t all that grounded in reality.
  
  Two of of those three most definitely aren’t going to happen and the third is, going on policy alignment and the wishes of NZ1st voters, not going to happen either and that’s all because of the dishonesty and policy conflicts of National.
  
  So, yeah, solidly grounded in reality.
  
  Yes they’ve got no natural allies in Parliament … but neither does anyone else.
  
  I’d say that Labour/Greens are natural allies and that NZ1st is actually friendly (policy wise) to those two. Labour and the Greens have many policy overlaps and even NZ1st has overlaps with the Greens and Labour.
  
  National is the only party that doesn’t have any policy overlap with those three.
  - RedLogix 16.4.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 3:25 pm
    
    I’d say that Labour/Greens are natural allies
    
    Superficially yes; but in all the years both parties have been around there has been precious little evidence of a sound working relationship, and many moments of mistrust and missteps. The worst betrayals come from with those who you hoped where your friends. Keep in mind the Greens are substantially a middle-class urban liberal party, while Labour is not.
    
    Nor will it be forgotten how Winston locked the Greens out of coalition with Helen Clark’s govt the first chance he got. There isn’t much trust in that relationship either.
    
    I’m not saying Lab/NZ1/Grn is impossible; indeed of the four options it may be the most workable … but we really shouldn’t kid ourselves that it will be an easy or natural alliance. A NZ1 presence in any coalition will be a tight handbrake on any progressive reform.
    
    That was my point really … that NONE of the four viable options look particularly attractive or natural.
    - NewsFlash 16.4.1.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 9:26 pm
      
      The current Green Party is a whole different to that of 10 yrs ago, Labours association with the Greens is now more equitable, the Greens have matured considerably, and have a good solid base of supporters, both parties have a common belief and both parties have a high degree of principle, as seen during the election campaign.
      
      Any differences of opinion (between L & G) are actually good for democracy, I certainly don’t see Labour and National held under the same light by any stretch of the imagination.
    - Phil 16.4.1.2
      
      4 October 2017 at 12:56 pm
      
      The worst betrayals come from with those who you hoped where your friends. Keep in mind the Greens are substantially a middle-class urban liberal party, while Labour is not.
      
      Nor will it be forgotten how Winston locked the Greens out of coalition with Helen Clark’s govt the first chance he got. There isn’t much trust in that relationship either.
      
      I can envisage a situation where the Greens enter a coalition with Labour and NZF now, then spend the next three years being shat on from a great height by Winston’s unique brand of political bullshit.
      
      It’s entirely possible you then could see a 2020 election where the Greens are forced to present themselves as a viable centrist party that could work with both major parties, just to stave off electoral oblivion.
savenz 17

2 October 2017 at 12:05 pm

National are Nigel no friends. And it’s their own fault.

Also we have to reflect it was classy strategy by Labour under Andrew Little to get Greg to win Ohariu and Willy Jackson to unite the Maori electorates. Without that, Natz would have been in a much stronger position.

If only Greens and Labour NZ First had collaborated on the electorate votes aka Northland, Auckland CBD and Nelson. In particular Nelson, to see Nick Smith wiped out would be justice for his appalling assault on the environment.

(Majority for NZ First/Labour/Green not National and special votes still to be counted)

Northland
KING, Matt 13,686
PETERS, Winston 12,394
PRIME, Willow-Jean 7219
HUGHES, Peter 1375

Nelson
SMITH, Nick 14,966
BOYACK, Rachel 10,956
LAWREY, Matt 8324
SARA, Susan 1262

Auckland CBD
LEADING CANDIDATE: KAYE, Nikki 10,068
WHITE, Helen Ione 8,549
ROCHE, Denise 1875
EDWARDS, Frank 426
- simonm 17.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 2:12 pm
  
  Maungakiekie
  Denise Lee, National 12,338
  Priyanca Radhakrishnan, Labour 10,395
  Chlöe Swarbrick, Greens 2,995
  
  National total 12,338
  Combined Labour/Greens total 13,390
  
  Both Radhakrishnan and Swarbrick ended up in Parliament anyway because they were high on their parties’ lists. National retained the seat.
  - savenz 17.1.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 2:57 pm
    
    exactly simonm – it is rubbish that the majority of voters (even in very rich areas) want a centre right government. People want a centre left government but their votes are split,
    
    Labour and Greens and NZ First need to work together to remedy that so that people who want a centre left government have a clear mandate who to vote for in the electoral votes.
    
    Also heard a lot of crowing about some MP’s from National getting huge votes. I note that social media had A LOT of people posting about capital gains taxes on lifestyle property under Labour. That clearly spooked a lot of people and made them vote National.
    
    Who knows whether it was genuine people worried on social media, or some dirty politics campaign that certain National MP’s are known for.
Whispering Kate 18

2 October 2017 at 12:07 pm

Labour and National, both in their own ways, are arrogant and want it all and to just suffer the smaller parties to prop them up while in power. When the attitudes of both of the larger parties mature and grow up and accept this is an MMP environment, mandated by the will of the people, then maybe we will get some successful grown up coalitions where the larger parties do not kill off their smaller support parties – its no wonder the smaller parties face coalition talks and/or partnership with intrepitation.

Like this waiting period for the overseas votes to be counted, the MSM and its mouth pieces just can’t leave it alone, they’re like kids with a “whining gimme gimme I want it now” constant refrain – its enough to do the electorate’s head in. As I heard someone on the news say lately – Germany faces 3 months of coalition talks and the country hasn’t fallen down on its ears. Like during the summer recess the country ticks over – it makes you wonder if we do need a Government at all, fat use they are.

National are being pathetic with their desperation and phoning Peters. Leave it to him to make up his own mind.
- RedLogix 18.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 12:38 pm
  
  its no wonder the smaller parties face coalition talks and/or partnership with intrepitation.
  
  Precisely … and the 5% threshold just exacerbates this. National and Labour are still essentially FPP parties; it’s clear they would like to go back to forming majority govts on their own, with all the unlimited power our unicameral house system confers on them.
  
  NZ’s political constitution is weak and is overdue a major re-think.
  - Draco T Bastard 18.1.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 5:27 pm
    
    NZ’s political constitution is weak and is overdue a major re-think.
    
    Yep. We need some way to limit the government doing what we want it to do rather than, as now, whatever the fuck they want.
    - eco maori 18.1.1.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 6:59 pm
      
      +100 D T B
- Anne 18.2
  
  2 October 2017 at 1:12 pm
  
  National are being pathetic with their desperation and phoning Peters. Leave it to him to make up his own mind.
  
  I think you will find it is part of maintaining the public momentum for a National- led coalition govt. It’s also part of an attempt to push Labour out of contention in the minds of the public. They are hoping Peters and co. will have to take cognizance of that when coming to a decision.
  
  English didn’t have to mention he had phoned Peters twice on two morning news programmes. It is part of the ‘mind game’ strategy I mentioned on another of today’s posts.
  - AB 18.2.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 1:24 pm
    
    The unanswered phone call (mentioned twice) is to reinforce the “Winston is intransigent” narrative which quickly turns into the “MMP doesn’t work” narrative.
    As someone who remembers how hard we had to fight against Shirtcliffe and his cronies to get MMP in the first place, it’s all very obvious and telegraphed
    - Anne 18.2.1.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 3:08 pm
      
      +1000
  - veutoviper 18.2.2
    
    2 October 2017 at 2:11 pm
    
    Winston Peters is no fool and has responded accordingly to English and others re English’s call yesterday to Peters in this well worded statement.
    
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1710/S00003/calls-to-new-zealand-first-are-responded-to.htm
    
    Jacinda Ardern has also been in direct contact with Peters today and has also issued this very short statement – described as ‘chill’ by Russell Brown and by others as in total contrast to the ‘shrill’ statements etc from National.
    
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1710/S00012/statement-regarding-coalition-negotiations.htm
    - Anne 18.2.2.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 3:14 pm
      
      Both Winston Peters and Jacinda Ardern are playing an honest and straight game.
      
      The difference between them and National – maturity and immaturity.
      - veutoviper 18.2.2.1.1
        
        3 October 2017 at 10:30 am
        
        Anne, i agree re that both Winston and Jacinda are playing a straight, honest game – as opposed to the dishonest,’ power is everything and ours by right’ approach by English and co.
        
        I have been impressed by Jacinda since our paths crossed over 10 years ago when she was working in Cabinet Office for Helen Clarke and I was still in the Public Service. Her maturity, ability to grasp different ideas/opinions were well beyond her age to a much older, experienced person (me!) and even then she had the aura of someone who would/should go far.
        
        Her communication skills have really come to the fore during the election compaign – and particularly how she is handling this hiatus, walk on egg shells situation we are currently in. I was really impressed with her performance this morning on the AM show – link in this comment of mine on another post thread this morning.
        
        https://thestandard.org.nz/good-call-from-ardern/#comment-1395352
Stuart Munro 19

2 October 2017 at 1:05 pm

The Gnats – trivial pestilential vermin – have always seen themselves as some kind of apex predator. Like the invasive South African praying mantis Miomantis caffra, their sexual cannibalism has proven to be a major cause of mortality in ex-partners.
One can almost see the Crosby Textor strategists salivating as they read “Fatal attraction: sexually cannibalistic invaders attract naive native mantids”

Where the mantis analogy falls down of course, is that unlike Gnats, mantids are green.
- garibaldi 19.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 4:59 pm
  
  As an aside SM I find it sad that the vast majority of NZers don’t even know about the presence of the Sth African mantis and how aggressively it has replaced our beautiful native species.
  I have not seen a native one for a couple of seasons now and assume they have been wiped out here in the Waikato.
  It is this Sth African mantis which is also wiping out more monarch caterpillars than the paper wasps.
  - In Vino 19.1.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 6:48 pm
    
    Interesting… I have seen paper wasps hunting down and slaughtering younger SA mantises, as well as grown male mantises (mantids?). I believe the wasps are harder on Monarchs. The mantises go on preying after the wasps’ hunting season has ended, but it is after the end of the wasp ‘hunting for protein’ season that the Monarchs now get their window of survival.
    This is at the very end of summer, when the voracious mantids are at their peak. So I suggest to you that the wasps are by far the greater problem. Early in the season, the mantids are babies and too small to bother the monarchs. The paper wasps are doing the damage, and Monarchs are all but obliterated until late summer. They survive when the wasps stop, not the mantids.
    But both voracious species may have saved us from the insect plagues that were earlier forecast with the arrival of warmer winters. Both species arrived at about the same time.
    (Oh dear… Garibaldi – I fear that we may both be headed for Open Mike.)
    - Robert Guyton 19.1.1.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 9:27 pm
      
      Monarchs are immigrants too. It’s the Admirals I worry about…
      - Stuart Munro 19.1.1.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 10:09 pm
        
        ‘I never was much of a fist at Latin,’ said Jack. ‘Not like Philip Broke. But I do remember dux, a leader, an admiral as you might say: and the plural is duces. So you could construe duces tecum as the admirals are with thee; and I don’t ask better than that.’
        
        In Vino 19.1.1.1.1.1
        
        3 October 2017 at 12:10 am
        
        duces tecum is so selective. How about duces vobiscum to be more inclusive?
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        3 October 2017 at 12:14 am
        
        You are almost certainly right, though I’d never pick bones with Patrick O’Brien, I’ve a feeling he’d get the better of me.
        
        In Vino …
        
        3 October 2017 at 12:34 am
        
        Assuming that Patrick said ‘duces tecum’, he was speaking to a singular person. I made it ‘you plural’ to be more inclusive. We need to get our ducks in a row. (Dux in aro.) From that wonderful inscription on a desk where there were fortibus es in aro.
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        3 October 2017 at 2:09 pm
        
        It is apparently a legal form, a subpoena for documents.
        
        My object of course was to bring the admirals into the war against the Gnats. With Dux in aro as well they may find themselves seriously outclassed.
  - Stuart Munro 19.1.2
    
    2 October 2017 at 7:05 pm
    
    Kids need to get a chance to go fly-fishing. Every fly fisherman becomes an amateur entomologist for life.
    - In Vino 19.1.2.1
      
      2 October 2017 at 7:17 pm
      
      A dying breed, I fear. With Nats’ water standards, more and more waterways will become fly-fishing-free. Of course, they might remain wadable… with those huge rubber wading trou that keep you totally out of contact with the algae-ridden water.
      - Stuart Munro 19.1.2.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 7:37 pm
        
        Restoration is by no means a forlorn hope.
        
        The Han river in Seoul as well as many of its tributaries are once more fishable and in many places drinkable. Shanghai’s Huangpu is recovering as aeration and reworking of below standard sewerage works frees it from oxygen debt and restores it to life. These places have forward-looking governments of course, but the pressure on our vile oppressors will only increase until, like some fatburg of unprecedented size, they are swept away.
        
        In Vino 19.1.2.1.1.1
        
        2 October 2017 at 8:14 pm
        
        Cool. Germany was doing this in the 70s… Aware that Cadmium and Nitrate levels were getting too high in soil and table water in agricultural areas, they acted. The Rhine had been a dead river. But when I lived in Cologne in 1979, fishermen were catching fish from the cleaned- up (relatively) river. But they knew it would not be wise to eat the fish. Verboten. They explained to me why they threw them back into the river.
        We live in hope, unlike righties, who wish in wilful ignorance.
        We should have stared acting years ago like the Germans, but here we have Fonterra advertising that we live in a clean, dairy-for-life paradise.
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:39 pm
        
        Fonterra are going to find out what happens when you try to fool your customers pretty soon. Reckon it’ll get a bit bumpy.
        
        In Vino …
        
        2 October 2017 at 9:54 pm
        
        Bumpy and bloody sad.
        
        savenz …
        
        2 October 2017 at 10:40 pm
        
        Luckily not so bumpy for Fonterra CEO Theo Spierings who can take his 8 million plus salary and run. Lucky he’s not measured on either profits (Fonterra down $100million less than in the previous year, staff lay offs, in 2015 more than 700 staff were laid off, debt, Agricultural debt has risen over $60billion in the last few years, or any environmental targets…. )
        
        You have to wonder WTF????
mosa 20

2 October 2017 at 1:34 pm

Its is funny that for years the National party has used the Greens as a scare tactic to ensure that the public have serious doubts about the destruction a Green appointed minister would do to the country if allowed to be in charge of anything , or god forbid the finance role would not bear thinking about.

Yet here we are with National with its invitation to come in and help prop up everything the Green party and its voters despise to maintain government.

The things you do when you are just short of the magic 61 seats and imagine being in opposition and not the beehive.

The Greens will see right through this of course and will have to wait just a little longer to play their part in a proggressive government that is serious about real change.
Adrian 21

2 October 2017 at 2:09 pm

Hows this for playing silly buggers.
Labour should be talking to David Seymour, yeah, yeah, I know, it’s because Winston is most likely to go with sitting on the cross benches and Seymour has been shit on from a great height by English ” Fuck off old boy we don’t need you now” and if Labour/Green get a few more on the finals with Seymour they could equal Nats.
Now that would be fun.
It’s more likely than Nat/ Green and scadenfruede is a lovely thing to behold.
nzsage 22

2 October 2017 at 3:52 pm

Personally I think it’s great news the MSM are calling for Peters to work with the Natz.

After all Peters LOVES the media and is sure to do their bidding…right?

Meanwhile the Greens will meet the Natz and string them along all the way.

Prepare for government Jacinda!
- lurgee 22.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 6:16 pm
  
  On the other hand, MickeySavage has impressive form for being completely wrong on petty much everything, so we might as well accept Bill English will be PM for the next 50 years …
  - BM 22.1.1
    
    2 October 2017 at 6:54 pm
  - cleangreen 22.1.2
    
    3 October 2017 at 6:06 pm
    
    Lurgee = National party lover.
- cleangreen 22.2
  
  3 October 2017 at 6:04 pm
  
  1000% NZsage.
  
  ilovejacinda.
greg 23

2 October 2017 at 7:29 pm

nobody wants to play with bill the snitch and the rest of yesterdays gang
eco maori 24

2 October 2017 at 7:56 pm

I bet that all the swing voters that voted national are men whom are not up with the play on economics.
I have talked to a few and I get dum ass quote’s from them interest rates will go up under Labour and they say when Labour was in government interest rates were high .
My reply is that interest rates were high all over the World an that the reason interest rates are low is because of the GFC and other country’s are keeping interest rates low to stimulate growth in there economy and national had nothing to do with our low interest rates .
I then turn the topic to our health system and the waiting list he could not understand my reasoning for treating any ailments with any living thing needs to be treated immediately as it is much more human and cost effective to treat the patient immediately I.E when treating a lame cow if you treat her strait away she will suffer less pain and only cost $50 if you put her on a waiting list of 3 months one would have to get a vet and have to use the most expensive antibiotics and walar there goes $500 ten times the cost well fuck I no what I would choose/ do and that is treat strait away.
There are many examples were national have stuffed up there main goal all the time they have been in power is to hold onto that power and change policy’s to benefit there M8 and them selves plan and simple.
A lot of men can not admit to there flaws I.E self examination and admitting they were wrong and if one can not do that than one is not going to click on to OUR reality of climate change / catastrophe poverty E.C.T . So I say to you Lady’s with men in powerful positions in OUR society kick there ass until they see reality and make them do the right thing YOU HAVE THE POWER TO DO THIS. BECAUSE THERE IN NO MULTIVERSE WE HAVE ONE PLANET AND WE MUST LOOK AFTER HER .Ka Pai
- cleangreen 24.1
  
  3 October 2017 at 6:08 pm
  
  Ka Pai Eco maori,
  
  Bang on there 100%.
  “I bet that all the swing voters that voted national are men whom are not up with the play on economics.”
JustMe 25

2 October 2017 at 8:53 pm

English is obviously getting desperate to court Winston Peters. I mean why should he(English)obsessively phone Winston? Is he(English)going to repeat history of the Barclay debacle and text Winston more than 300 times???!!!!
This sorry excuse of a prime minister is an embarrassment to both the NZ National Party and for NZers.
A mature and responsible adult wouldn’t rush someone like Winston Peters but quite obviously Bill English is neither mature let alone responsible. Winston will make his decision in HIS OWN time and once the special votes have been counted He doesn’t like being pressured especially by someone with the reputation of being a Double Dipper.
But then English’s obvious desperation to reach a deal with Winston comes across as artificial and shallow. Over the years English has shown little or no regard to NZers especially those on low income. And now he wants to court Winston because he is so obsessed with remaining pm of New Zealand that he will resort to desperate measures and goals.
How shallow. How pathetic. How ridiculous of a person like Bill English.
- georgecom 25.1
  
  2 October 2017 at 11:27 pm
  
  It’s worth remembering how desperate English is to be Prime Minister. Not just having it handed over to him, but being elected. In 2001 he was humiliated. When Brash left National English thought he had the chance again only for Key to snatch it away. The deal done between the 2 was for English to be Finance Minister and for Key to eventually step aside to give English some time as PM and smooth the way for him to have another go at being elected. English is desperate to be elected PM. That’s where the “moral mandate” spin comes from. English will be increasingly sick and desperate as he considers his chance may not come.
  - solkta 25.1.1
    
    3 October 2017 at 6:04 pm
    
    Soon you will see him marching in the streets.
- cleangreen 25.2
  
  3 October 2017 at 6:14 pm
  
  yes JustMe,
  
  Bullshit Bill is history now as the days go by we are seeing most kiwis are re-awakening every morning with a ray of new realisation we could now finally rid theser evil traitors called “national” from our country and actually take it back again.
  
  I wake up positive again as I used to be in 2008 before the election then when Helen Clark and Michael Cullen had bought our rail back again, as part of restoring our flagging infrustructure.
Sparky 26

2 October 2017 at 9:58 pm

Oh dear poor old National. In spite of all the marketing in the world including in my opinion the majority of the MSM they are still coming up short. Reality is people can see whats in front of their own eyes. The old system is broken and needs to be replaced by something better.
cleangreen 27

3 October 2017 at 5:41 pm

National are in the shit.
National = are known as anti-rail.
National = are now a train wreck.
rhinocrates 28

3 October 2017 at 6:37 pm

Prostetnic Vogon Joyce on RNZ now. Hilarious.

Comments are now closed

Articles RSS

CommentsOpinions

FeedsPartyGovtMedia

Treasury warns deeper recession worsening Budget deficit

The gift that keeps giving: David Seymour has now opened a split in the coalition over the future of National’s promise to build a new medical school. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / TheKakaKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

3 hours ago
Weekly Roundup 22-November-2024

It’s another Friday and we’re inching closer to the end of the year. Here’s some of the stories that have caught our attention this week. This post, like all our work, is brought to you by a largely volunteer crew and made possible by generous donations from our readers and ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

4 hours ago
Beyond Question?

Record Numbers: The Hīkoi mō te Tiriti, which began at the tip of the North, and the tail of the South, on 11 November, culminated outside Parliament on Tuesday, 19 November 2024, in one of the largest demonstrations in New Zealand’s political history.ACCORDING TO TE ARA, the Ministry of Culture ...

Bowalley Road

5 hours ago
The Rush To Blame “The Activists”

Activists are such easy scapegoats. The right and center have been conditioned for decades to roll their eyes at all protests. The left are easily aggravated over students leading movements they see as belonging to grownups, who have more important concerns like the economy and whether the trains come on ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

5 hours ago
Cutting Through An Inundation of Dipshit Racists

Hi,Watching New Zealand from afar offers a strange perspective. It can be a good thing — distance from Aotearoa helped keep me sane while I reported on abuse at New Zealand’s biggest megachurch over the course of a year. It helps fuel my silly podcast. But it can also be ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

5 hours ago
This is bad news

The speech yesterday by Treasury’s Chief Economic Advisor warning that the books are in worse shape than forecasted looks like it’s part of a softening-up process for either more cuts or a longer wait to get back into surplus. The speech was a highly unusual public preview of Treasury’s Half-Yearly ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

7 hours ago
Skeptical Science New Research for Week #47 2024

Open access notables Projected increase in the frequency of extremely active Atlantic hurricane seasons, Lopez et al., Science Advances: Future changes to the year-to-year swings between active and inactive North Atlantic tropical cyclone (TC) seasons have received little attention, yet may have great societal implications in areas prone to hurricane ...

Skeptical Science

16 hours ago
Chicken Kiev

Chatting in the supermarket this morning, I found I needed to lunge for the chicken drumsticks.Coping mechanisms: who hasn’t felt a greater need for them lately?When it all gets too much, I turn to demonstrating handy butchery hacks.It wasn’t that she’d said anything wrong, our friend, not at all. We ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

19 hours ago
The year is 2024 and it’s 1984

This is written in response to the highly significant open letter from a group of economists that was today addressed to Christopher Luxon. The year is 2024, and it’s 1984. The country is reeling from a record Olympic medal gold haul, while the globe grapples with the choice of the ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

20 hours ago
The IPCA has failed

Back in 2022, RNZ took an in-depth look at the "Independent" Police Conduct Authority and its handling of killings by police. These are the most serious test of oversight, and you would expect the police's use of lethal force to receive the most severe scrutiny. But despite the police regularly ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 day ago
Thursday 21 November 2024

The Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti arrived at Parliament on Tuesday – the size is being debated but estimates range from 42,000 to 100,000. The Prime Minister is defending not attending due to some of the organisers being affiliated with Te Pāti Māori. The national gang patch ban came into force ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

1 day ago
‘These budget cuts are counter-productive and make no sense’

I spoke to former Productivity Chair Nana this morning about the letter he and a group of other economists sent to PM Christopher Luxon to urge the Government to urgently suspend cuts to spending and investment for the sake of the economy, struggling businesses and the wellbeing of vulnerable ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 day ago
ACT’s Astroturfing & A Co-ordinated Attack on Te Pati Māori

Unity on the Streets / Unity at the TableAfter the Hīkoi, all three right wing Coalition leaders came together to push the idea that the 42,000 - 50,000 + strong Hikoi was somehow less potent and brave, and more illegitimate than the energy and crowd displayed.Prime Minister Christopher Luxon 20-November: ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 day ago
Durability of carbon dioxide removal is critical for stabilizing temperatures

This is a re-post from the Climate Brink The world is emitting over 40 gigatons of CO2 per year, contributing to an accelerating warming of the planet. The world needs to cut emissions rapidly to be remotely on track to meet our Paris Agreement goals of limiting warming to well-below 2C, and we ...

Skeptical Science

1 day ago
I Love My Leather Jacket

I wear my leather jacket like a great big hugRadiating charm - a living cloak of luckIt's the only concrete link with an absent friendIt's a symbol I can wear 'till we meet againOr it's a weight around my neck while the owner's freeBoth protector and reminder of mortalityIt's a ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

1 day ago
Throwback Thursday: Will “Auckland Transport” Survive?

With Auckland Transport’s future up in the air under Mayor Wayne Brown’s proposed CCO reform, we’ve dug way back into the archives, to unearth this post originally published in March 2010. As you’ll see, many of the debates that were being had when AT was first proposed continue to ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

1 day ago
Economists call on PM to suspend budget cuts for the sake of the economy

Nicola Willis’ budget cuts are under fire from economists for having no clear rationale and worsening the recession. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, November 21: The news at ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 day ago
The end of policing by consent

National has appointed a new police commissioner. And he explicitly rejects policing by consent: Asked if he subscribed to policing by consent, he said he did not. “I don’t talk about policing by consent. I talk about trust and confidence, and it is fundamentally important that the police have ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

2 days ago
The Treaty Principles Bill: A Who’s Who

David Horatio Waterbed SeymourFringe politician and dweeb transformed successfully by ThinkTank money into a well-oiled soundbite robot.Currently programmed to say: Equal rights for all New Zealanders Equal rights for all New Zealanders Equal rights for all New Zealanders Was previously programmed to say:I am a proud libertarian andI am a ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

2 days ago
Kinleith mill closure shows need for industrial strategy

NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff is calling on the Government to deliver an economic and industrial strategy for regional manufacturing, rather than just expressing sympathy for job losses, following the announced closure of Kinleith mill in Tokoroa. “The closure Kinleith mill in Tokoroa is not just devastating for ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

2 days ago
27% of kids going hungry, up from 21% in a year

One in four Kiwi children live in households where food runs out often or sometimes. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, November 20: The lead: The official annual Health Survey found sharp ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

2 days ago
Transport modelling is an illusion

This guest post by Tim Adriaansen, an advocate for accessibility and sustainable transport, originally published on LinkedIn and cross posted here with permission. People prefer cars, right? Probably not. Here’s why. Granted, most people in English-speaking countries use a car to get around. This simple reality underpins our transport ...

Greater AucklandBy Guest Post

2 days ago
Young Maori take over

Neither Wellington nor Parliament has ever seen anything like it before. The Police said there were more than 40,000 but however many there were, yesterday’s Hikoi to Parliament was a monumental event. It was almost three times the Foreshore and Seabed martch of 2004 and many,many times bigger than ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

2 days ago
Gordon Campbell On The Hikoi Aftermath

The euphoria from yesterday’s hikoi may be transitory, but is no less valuable for that. It is pretty rare for the left to feel itself to be in the overwhelming majority, and speaking as the voice of the people. Lest that momentum be lost, the organisers will no doubt be ...

WerewolfBy ScoopEditor

3 days ago
Sabin 33 #3 – Solar panels generate too much waste and will overwhelm landfills

On November 1, 2024 we announced the publication of 33 rebuttals based on the report "Rebutting 33 False Claims About Solar, Wind, and Electric Vehicles" written by Matthew Eisenson, Jacob Elkin, Andy Fitch, Matthew Ard, Kaya Sittinger & Samuel Lavine and published by the Sabin Center for Climate Change Law at Columbia ...

Skeptical Science

3 days ago
What’s the time Mr Seymour?

Mr David Seymour crawling up to the ceilingThe sun don't shine the sun don't shine the sun don't shine at allMamma Pappa say you should go to school, I don't know what forNow that I've grown up and seen the world and all its liesSong: Southside of Bombay"Ake, ake, ake" ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

3 days ago
Submit to defend te Tiriti!

The Justice Committee has called for submissions on National's racist and constitutionally radical Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill. Submissions can be made at the link above or by post, and are due by Tuesday, 7 January 2025. But I'd get in quick, in case National grows a spine ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

3 days ago
We need to talk about Kevin

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family has a Drunk Uncle Kevin in there somewhere. If your Kevin is anything like the ones I know, he was getting along happily enough without having to think too much about the Treaty Principles Bill apart from bloody good job, onya guys ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

3 days ago
The hikoi

Like everyone else (everyone who wasn't there, anyway), I've spent the morning watching the hikoi march on Parliament. The pictures are astounding: parliament grounds and the surrounding streets are full, and there are still people backed up along Lambton Quay. The police are estimating 35,000 people, and that's a floor ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

3 days ago
Why Govt & NZ Inc should boycott & regulate Facebook

The CEOs of Westpac NZ and Kiwibank say Facebook is rife with fraud but reporting scam ads gets no response. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Tuesday, November 19: The ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

3 days ago
How should we talk about change?

A better world isn’t just possible, it’s desirable. And that’s how we should frame a lot of our conversations around making a greater Auckland. As an example take urban climate action. A climate friendly Auckland: Is free from congestion Enables people to travel how they choose Is filled with ...

Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp

3 days ago
AMA + Holiday Webworm Merch!

Hi,It’s AMA time again — so anything that’s on your mind that you wanna ask, ask away in the comments. This is one of my favourite things to do with full Webworm members, who are the heart of this community of Worms. Journalism? Documentary making? Short Poppies? Cats? Podcasting? What ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

3 days ago
Discount Code for Webworm Merch!

Hi,So there’s a bunch of new stuff on the Webworm store (www.webworm.store) — just in time for the Holidays. Read more ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

3 days ago
Trying to defuse the tension

There were urgent moves yesterday at Parliament to try and defuse the tension building up over ACT’s Treaty Principles Bill. The Bill’s author, ACT leader David Seymour, told reporters that he understood the Justice Select Committee met yesterday to discuss how long it should take to consider submissions on the ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

3 days ago
An Irritable NZ Pawn – David Seymour Admits Treaty Principles Bill will clear the way for deve...

This morning I discovered a post I’d written 10-11 months ago, lamenting how New Zealand’s ACT Party and their foreign and local surrogates would play out anti-Māori propaganda - which I believe they have long prepared for.At the time, it was a plea for action and readiness from my fellow ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

3 days ago
Gordon Campbell On The Hikoi Arrival, And Tyler Childers

Politicians like to bang on all about the need to heal society’s racial/economic divisions, but in their actions they’re more keen on stoking those divisions, with the Treaty Principles Bill being the classic example. The Bill seeks to dilute the Crown’s responsibilities to Māori at the same time as it ...

WerewolfBy ScoopEditor

4 days ago
Socially Backwards and Fiscally Forwards: the False Ideological Divide and the “Conservative” Li...

Nearly two weeks on from the US election, and we are still mentally wrangling with the results. How did this happen? Which voter demographics went where? What did the Democrats do wrong? Meanwhile here in New Zealand, we’re left wondering how this will apply to us and what this means ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

4 days ago
Kaamos: Accepted

I appreciate that A Phuulish Fellow has been fairly quiet recently. That’s a combination of two things – comparatively little in the way of relevant material to discuss (at least until The War of the Rohirrim comes out next month), and my general work on The Secret Non-Fiction Writing Project. ...

A Phuulish FellowBy strda221

4 days ago
Here’s how governments could fix their Paris climate commitment failures

This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Governments around the world face a conundrum. Virtually none are on track to meet their Paris climate commitments. That includes the United States, which committed to cut its emissions at least 50% below 2005 levels by 2030 but is only on track for 32-43% cuts ...

Skeptical Science

4 days ago
Unstoppable.

Too Big To Fail: Forty-three years after the 1981 Springbok Tour protests, Maori defenders of te Tiriti, by their own efforts, and using their own resources, are poised to descend on the capital with upwards of 100,000 followers at their back, and no force in front of them even remotely ...

Bowalley Road

4 days ago
Katherine Trebeck – An Alternative Economic Narrative

The era of neoliberalism has been destructive on so many levels, with a huge growth in wealth and privilege for the one percent. A hollowing out of the state; fraying of the safety net; inadequate government investment in infrastructure; and continued environmental degradation has resulted in damage on a vast ...

Fabians

4 days ago
In a Manner of Speaking

In a manner of speakingI just want to sayThat I could never forget the wayYou told me everythingBy saying nothingOh, give me the wordsGive me the wordsThat tell me nothingOh, give me the wordsGive me the wordsThat tell me everythingSongwriter: Winston TongNext Tuesday, the subscription price for Nick’s Kōrero will ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

4 days ago
Monday 18 November 2024

The NZNO have announced a nationwide strike for December over its pay dispute with Health NZ, who have put a 1 per cent cap on pay rises. The Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti and Treaty Principles Bill remain front and centre in the media, with the impacts of the Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke-led ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

4 days ago
Shipley warns Seymour’s bill is ‘inviting civil war’

The divisive Treaty Principles Bill is not just a risk for the National Party, it’s a risk to civil order and unity, warns a National Party grandee. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

4 days ago
A clearer network for the City Rail Link?

This post was originally published on Linked In by Nicolas Reid. It is republished here with permission. Auckland is now just a year or so away from having the keystone of its urban rail network complete. As I wrote about here, the City Rail Link will be a literal game changer for ...

Greater AucklandBy Guest Post

4 days ago
National’s support base is wobbling

If ACT leader David Seymour intended the Treaty Principles Bill to drive a wedge into National’s support base, he may well already be succeeding. By midnight on Thursday after the Maori Party haka in Parliament, National MPs were being deluged with emails and messages from their members calling them out ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

4 days ago
2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #46

A listing of 33 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, November 10, 2024 thru Sat, November 16, 2024. Story of the week Our Story of the Week is completely "meta" (no, not that Meta). It's about our exploring how ...

Skeptical Science

5 days ago
Grifter Eftpos Tamaki at it again

..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Self-appointed “Bishop” and proto-fascist, Brian Tamaki was at it again on 16 November, blocking Auckland’s southern motorway, SH1.This time, the target of his ire wasn’t the Civil Unions Act; covid lock-downs; mask mandates; or ...

Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy

5 days ago
Rip up a bill, lead a haka are words to live by

I cannot stop grabbing people by the lapels, or shoulders, or similar, and raving at them about the tiny miracles in my ears.I can hear again! There could not be a more satisfied customer in all the world.In a noisy cafe I am even catching words that Karren cannot, she ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

5 days ago
Unintended Consequences

Take the baitYou pay the priceIt's much too lateFor good adviceYou know and I know that our good things' throughBecause there's consequences for what we doConsequences for me and youWriters: Kevin Robert Hayes, David Nagier, Bonnie Adele Hayes.Fallout from the first readingOne News began last night by saying that tens ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

6 days ago
Thank you, driver!

Today, Saturday 16th of November, is Auckland Transport’s Bus Driver Appreciation Day! Saturday 16 November marks the third annual Auckland Transport (AT) ‘Bus Driver Appreciation Day’, and this year we are encouraging all of New Zealand to thank their driver or let the bus go first if you are in ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

6 days ago
Totally Normal: Holiday Edition

Hi,If I was to accurately sum up my mental state over the week, I’d just say that I got a huge fright from my own shadow.I’d nipped out for an 11pm neighborhood stroll, just to calm down after a day of stress and screens. The Cure and Fazerdaze’s new record ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

6 days ago
We Are Not Listening

The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...

PunditBy Brian Easton

7 days ago
More lawlessness from National

On Tuesday, sick of government stonewalling, the Waitangi Tribunal issued a rare court order, ordering the Minister of Health to release unredacted documents within 48 hours showing its reasoning for disestablishing Te Aka Whai Ora, the Māori Health Authority. The government's response to the lawful order of a court? Yeah, ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

7 days ago
National’s tyrannical “foreign interference” law

Yesterday, under cover the the biggest political fight of the year, National quietly - covertly, even - introduced anti-foreign interference legislation. The bill is the product of a years-long work-program aimed at countering shit like this and this, and there's unquestionably a need to do something to counter foreign states' ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

7 days ago
The Haka Represents The Best Of Us

A few months ago, I was in an audience watching a Haka-Kapa and as I watched children dance and sing and sway and shout and beat, I couldn’t help but think “The Haka represents the best of us.”Yes, yes - there will be a thousand voices that rush forth to ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 week ago
Adding up the climate cost

St Mary’s Bay housing left hanging: Climate risk is systemically underestimated in the climate scenarios used by central banks, and a new report warns 10,000 houses are set to become uninsurable in Aotearoa. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, here’s the top six news items of note in ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
Auckland chafing at Bishop’s housing intensification orders

One of the major problems the Government has in implementing its ‘going for housing growth’ strategy is that it isn’t giving much funding help to councils. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
Friday 15 November 2024

The Treaty Principles Bill continues to dominate political news, with it passing its first reading in the House. Parliament was briefly suspended and Te Pāti Māori MP Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke suspended for 24 hours after leading a haka that was joined by opposition MPs and the public in the gallery. Willie ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

1 week ago
Weekly Roundup 15-November-2024

Happy Friday, welcome to another round-up of interesting stories about what’s happening in Auckland and other cities. Feel free to add your links in the comments! This post, like all our work, is brought to you by a largely volunteer crew and made possible by generous donations from our readers ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

1 week ago
Are We The Waiting?

And screamingAre we we are, are we we are the waitingAnd screamingAre we we are, are we we are the waitingForget me nots, second thoughts live in isolationHeads or tails and fairy tales in my mindAre we we are, are we we are the waiting unknownThe rage and love, the ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

1 week ago
The Hoon around the week to November 15

The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent on the latest climate news, including from COP29 this week; on the US Presidential elections, Israel vs Gaza/Iran/Lebanon, Ukraine/Nato vs Russia/North ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
First Tea and Toast, now Milo — why do NZ’s best beverages need so much defending?

Only two months ago, Nicola Willis had to step in to stop Health New Zealand cutting tea and toast for post-birth parents, and now Lester Levy is riding to the rescue with a welcome message for all: our health workers can once again drink Milo, and will no longer need ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

1 week ago
Gordon Campbell on the folly of making apologies in a social vacuum.

Day One of the Treaty Principles Bill…and everyone got what they wanted, and did what they liked. Heated words were exchanged. Culturally appropriate acts of outrage were performed. David Seymour got to play the victim card. Willie Jackson got kicked out of class. A comically red-faced Mr Speaker bellowed “Order, ...

WerewolfBy ScoopEditor

1 week ago
Skeptical Science New Research for Week #46 2024

Open access notables Microbial solutions must be deployed against climate catastrophe, Peixoto et al., Nature Communications [comment]: The climate crisis is escalating. A multitude of microbe-based solutions have been proposed, and these technologies hold great promise and could be deployed along with other climate mitigation strategies. However, these solutions have ...

Skeptical Science

1 week ago
The PM gets some extremely valuable legal advice for free

You can pay a great deal of money for the services of a KC. So just what would some peerless legal writing from 40 or so of them be worth, do you reckon?Priceless, that’s what. It’s not even the half of it, but this is my favourite part of the ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

1 week ago
D-day for the government

The government's Treaty Principles Bill is up for its first reading today - bought forward in a rush in a desperate effort to avoid the hikoi which is currently marching on Wellington. But the Prime Minister won’t be there for it – he’s literally running away to Peru! But he ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 week ago
97% of submissions did not want no-cause evictions, Trump chooses a Russian spy for US Intelligence ...

Good morning, and I’m sorry I’ve been away for a couple of days.I’ve been focusing on the Hikoi, and also testing out sentiment on the Treaty Principles Bill. It’s complicated, and the Treaty Principles Bill will be debated in the House today. The Government’s own lawyers have told them the ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 week ago
Government must vote down ACT Members Bill that would undermine workers’ rights

NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff is calling on the Government to vote down an ACT Party Members Bill that would undermine workers’ rights by making it easier for employers to fire workers. Last week ACT MP Laura Trask’s Employment Relations (Termination of Employment by Agreement) Amendment Bill was ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

1 week ago
Seymour causes thousands of unjustified absences by forcing kids to fight for their rights instead o...

The State would like to remind you that they are in control. They manage your employment prospects, and can destroy the job market you and yours rely on by mass-cancelling construction projects, cutting funding, and firing a good chunk of our public servants. They wield the mechanisms that provide scrutiny ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

1 week ago
The Weight of the World

As the weight of the world Hangs on your shoulders The weight of the world Starts to take over again And over again All that you once loved, now you hate So slowly relearn how to meditate To have and to hold And never let go Can you feel it ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

1 week ago
Thursday 14 November 2024

The Treaty Principles Bill is set to have its First Reading in the House today, as the Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti continues. More than 40 KCs have written to the Prime Minister and Attorney-General outlining their “grave concerns” about the substance of the Treaty Principles Bill, while an academic and ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

1 week ago
Trump’s return to White House brings the climate’s ‘find out’ phase closer

As we absorb the news of Trump's victory in the US Presidential election, here’s a wrap compiled just before the result of what it might mean for climate action: The UN Secretary General says the prospective departure of the United States would cripple the Paris Agreement, likening it to the ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
Time and Space in the City Centre

Patrick Reynolds is deputy chair of the City Centre Advisory Panel. The header image is from Walthamstow, London The city centre now has a few stretches of street where the space has been repurposed to a people and place focused design from full time traffic use. These are a great ...

Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds

1 week ago
An opportunity for a pro-growth tax switch

As the Hikoi against it swells into the tens of thousands, KCs call on National to kill off ACT’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, November 14: The ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago

Release: Government should be transparent on live exports

Targeted consultation on reinstating live cattle exports by sea won’t allow the New Zealand public to have their say. ...

Labour Blog

4 hours ago
NZ’s global climate rankings plummet as Govt removes agriculture from ETS

The Government has passed legislation to remove agriculture from the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) while Aotearoa’s reputation on climate action plummets. ...

Greens

18 hours ago
Failed boot camp experiment must end

As legislation to set up boot camps passed its first reading, the Green Party urged the Government to abandon this failed policy experiment for the good of our rangatahi. ...

Greens

19 hours ago
Gender-affirming care must centre evidence and health needs, not political posturing

The Ministry of Health has today released an evidence brief regarding the use of puberty blockers in gender-affirming healthcare, amid moves by the government to limit access. ...

Greens

20 hours ago
Release: National doesn’t care about manufacturing

The National Government is walking away from our manufacturing sector with constant reports of closures and job losses. ...

Labour Blog

21 hours ago
Release: David Parker speech – Piketty, Inequality and Climate Change

David Parker's speech from the University of Auckland's forum on Piketty, Inequality and Climate Change in September 2024. ...

Labour Blog

21 hours ago
Release: Youth mental wellbeing no longer a priority for Child Poverty Minister

Louise Upston has revealed her diminished vision for vulnerable youth against a backdrop of snubbed advice, scrapped priorities, shifted goal posts and thousands more children projected to fall into poverty. ...

Labour Blog

23 hours ago
Release: National’s lack of climate action taking NZ backwards

National Government’s backward-looking climate policy has seen New Zealand fall seven places on the Climate Change Performance Index to 41 out of 63 countries measured. ...

Labour Blog

23 hours ago
Release: Simple reason for drop in emergency housing

When the Government says it has reduced the number of people in emergency housing, what it means is it is stopping people from accessing it in the first place. ...

Labour Blog

1 day ago
Govt’s child wellbeing strategy ‘shallow and shameful’

The Government is turning its back on children by not only weakening child poverty reduction targets, but also removing child mental wellbeing as a priority focus in their Child and Youth Wellbeing Strategy. ...

Greens

1 day ago
Release: A historic win for Samoan communities

Labour warmly welcomes the Restoring Samoan Citizenship Bill as it passes its third reading, before becoming law. ...

Labour Blog

1 day ago
Government plan to reinstate live animal exports a “national disgrace”

The Government has taken a giant step backwards by reinstating live animal exports. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Pasifika justice as Member’s Bill passes final reading

Teanau Tuiono’s Member’s Bill, the Citizenship (Western Samoa Restoration) Amendment Bill, has passed its third reading and will become law. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Release: Minister of Education thinks New Zealand ends at the Bombay Hills

The Minister of Education has shown complete disregard for rural communities and their school bus routes in Question Time today. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Economists sound alarm on Government’s slash-and-burn approach

A group of prominent economists has released an open letter to the Government, raising grave concerns about the far-reaching consequences of its fiscal policy. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Release: Smoking numbers up under Costello’s watch

National’s repeal of Labour’s smokefree legislation has taken New Zealand further away from achieving a Smokefree 2025 and a smokefree generation. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Release: Call for Palestine recognition by NZ, Australian and Canadian MPs

Parliamentarians from Australia, Canada and New Zealand have written an open letter to their respective Prime Ministers calling on them to recognise Palestine. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Justice Select Committee opens floor for Treaty Principles submissions

Today, the Justice Select Committee has decided to officially open submissions for the controversial Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

3 days ago
Power of the people on full display as hīkoi approaches Parliament

Today, Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrived in Wellington, with thousands gathering to march in unity against the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

3 days ago
Hypocrisy as Te Whatu Ora contractor bill balloons

Te Whatu Ora’s bill for contracting and consulting staff has ballooned by nearly 20 percent under the National Government, breaking a promise they made during the election campaign to cut contractors. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Release: Growing pressure to scrap Section 7AA Repeal Bill

The newly released Section 7AA Repeal Bill's select committee report is further evidence that the Government should scrap it. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Government’s move to monetise access to nature a slippery slope

The Green Party is voicing serious concerns over the Government’s proposal to charge for access to public conservation land, released today. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Green Party condemns the passage of Treaty Principles Bill

The Green Party condemns the passing of the Treaty Principles Bill at first reading, and is clear that the fight is not over. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Stand Up for Te Tiriti

Te Tiriti o Waitangi is our country’s founding document. It forms the basis of the relationship between Māori and the Crown – and the Aotearoa New Zealand we live in today. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Over 15,000 sign Labour’s open letter to Luxon

As the hīkoi to Parliament continues, Labour has sent an open letter to Prime Minister Christopher Luxon in a last-ditch attempt to get him to kill the Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Fast Track Bill threatens environment, climate and reputation

The fast-track legislation passing its second reading in Parliament is another step towards environmental ruin. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Greens join King’s Counsel in calling for Treaty Principles Bill to be abandoned

The Prime Minister must answer the call from a group of senior lawyers of the King’s Counsel to abandon the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Chris Hipkins’ apology statement to state and faith-based care survivors

...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Labour formally apologises to state and faith-based care survivors

Labour joins with the Government in unreservedly apologising for the abuse, neglect and trauma including torture in state and faith-based care and for ignoring the voices of survivors for too long. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Green Party stands in support of survivors of abuse in care

Today, the Green Party stands alongside the survivors of abuse in state care and faith-based care as the Government issues an historic apology. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Green Party calls for conscience vote on Treaty Principles Bill

The Green Party has written to the Speaker of the House requesting he enable a personal vote on the Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Govt move to exclude journalist risks chilling effect

The Green Party is alarmed by the Government’s move to exclude a journalist from covering this week’s apology for the survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Without action, an apology will be empty air

For tomorrow’s apology to survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care to hold any water, the Government must not pursue the same policies that drove the abuse in the first place. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Concerns remain over tobacco interference

Concerns about the tobacco industry’s ability to interfere in government policy making remain, despite the inability of the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Government’s decision to halve the excise tax on heated tobacco products. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Urgent wake-up call on climate

The Climate Change Commission’s latest advice indicates Aotearoa needs to be stepping up on climate action. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Green MP’s Meme-ber’s Bill set to save the world

Break out the punchlines and dust off your meme folder: Green Party MP Kahurangi Carter’s Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill was pulled from the Ballot yesterday. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Poroporoaki: Ta Robert (Bom) Gillies

Kua hinga te manawa kairākau o Te Rua Tekau Ma Waru Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po! Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro! Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te Pō ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principles Bill

The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...

The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
NZ must pursue independent foreign policy

The Green Party says the need is greater than ever for Aotearoa New Zealand to pursue an independent foreign policy. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago

Record number of submissions received on granny flat proposal

Nearly 2,000 submissions have been received on the Government’s proposals aimed at making it easier to build a granny flat of up to 60 square metres without a resource or building consent, RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk say. “This is the highest number ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

16 minutes ago
District Court Judge appointed

Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Rebecca Guthrie as a District Court Judge. Judge Guthrie was admitted to the bar in 1997 following her graduation from the University of Canterbury in 1996 (LLB, BA). She commenced her legal career in Hastings in 1997 before moving to London in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

38 minutes ago
Appointments strengthen Predator Free 2050

The latest Predator Free 2050 Board appointments will help to strengthen biodiversity efforts across Aotearoa New Zealand, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. Mr Potaka today announced two appointments to the Board of Directors of Predator Free 2050 Limited, a key player in the wider Predator Free 2050 Programme. “The Predator ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 hours ago
New facility in Christchurch will improve the lives of young New Zealanders

Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey today opened Kahurangi, an innovative and much-needed facility for Canterbury’s Child, Adolescent, and Family Mental Health Services. “The new state of the art outpatient facility opened today will be a gamechanger for the way mental health is delivered for young people in Canterbury,” says Mr ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 hours ago
Driver safety screens to be installed on Auckland buses

Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news from the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) that bus driver protection screens will be installed across Auckland’s bus fleet by 2026.“The Government is committed to improving the safety of working environments for bus drivers, and Budget 2024 allocated $15 million of Crown funding over ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 hours ago
Government action provides Southland farmers more time to meet plan requirements

The Government is taking action to ensure Southland farmers and growers are not affected by unreasonable regional farm plan deadlines, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard say.“Cabinet has agreed to provide more time for farmers and growers to comply with regional rules ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

19 hours ago
Bill reaffirms Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending

The Oranga Tamariki (Responding to Serious Youth Offending) Bill had its first reading at Parliament today. The Bill reaffirms the Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. “In recent years we have seen an unacceptable spike in youth offending. “This Bill makes ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

20 hours ago
Critical milestones for earthquake buildings review

Fairer, more sensible rules about managing earthquake risks are a step closer with the passing of legislation and the appointment of an independent chair to provide expert advice, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The Government is committed to reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic growth, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

20 hours ago
State of the art radiology machine for Auckland

People in Northland and Auckland will benefit from a new machine for cancer treatment installed at the Regional Cancer and Blood Service at Auckland City Hospital. The MV5 linear accelerator, or LINAC machine, officially opened today targets cancer tumours with pinpoint accuracy. Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says this new, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

20 hours ago
Foreign Minister to visit Europe

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Europe for high-level talks with France, Germany and the United Kingdom next week. "Since taking office almost a year ago, the Coalition Government has emphasised the importance we place on New Zealand's traditional and likeminded diplomatic and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

21 hours ago
First arrests made under gang patch ban

Police have made their first arrests under the new gang patch legislation, with two gang members arrested, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “Just before 11 this morning, Police in Wairoa apprehended a gang member for wearing a patch to the supermarket. He has been arrested and will now face enforcement ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

22 hours ago
Better support for victims of sexual violence

The Government is proposing two major changes to name suppression laws that will put the views of victims of sexual violence first, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “We are committed to restoring law and order and these two proposed changes will help ensure the victims of crime are put at ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

23 hours ago
Government moving forward with Regional Deals

Cabinet has agreed to invite all regions to submit proposals for Regional Deals between central and local government that drive economic growth and deliver the infrastructure our country needs, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop say. Inviting all regions to propose a Regional Deal that boosts ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

24 hours ago
MSA pilot participant update

One of the ten young men selected to participate in the Military-Style Academy Pilot has allegedly reoffended. Children’s Minister Karen Chhour is disappointed but says it would be naïve to think that none of these young men would reoffend. “I’m saddened that this young person has not taken this opportunity ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Fighting for Kiwis in Trade

Delivered at Auckland Trade and Economic Policy School Good morning and thank you Deputy Vice Chancellor Lithander for your warm welcome and for inviting me to open Auckland Trade and Economic Policy School today. A Special thanks to the University of Auckland, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Attendance rates increase, again

Associate Education Minister David Seymour says that school attendance is continuing to rise. In Term 3 of 2024 51.3 per cent of students attended school regularly, an increase of 5.3 percentage points from 46 per cent in Term 3 of 2023. “This Government has prioritised student attendance and it is ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Improving the lives of young New Zealanders

Ensuring New Zealand is the best place in the world for children and young people is the vision at the heart of the Government’s new Child and Youth Strategy, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. “Childhood represents a huge opportunity to set people on a positive path towards living ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Government continues work to reinstate livestock exports by sea

The Government is reinstating the trade of livestock exports by sea while ensuring the highest standards of animal welfare, says Associate Minister of Agriculture Andrew Hoggard.“The Government will introduce legislation changes to reinstate the trade, enhance oversight, and strengthen requirements for exporters to identify risks and manage the welfare of ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Speech to the National Quality Forum 2024

Tēnā koutou katoa – it is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the important leadership role you all play in ensuring a quality health system New Zealanders can trust. There is enormous clinical expertise in this room covering a wide range of disciplines. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
New Zealand’s COP29 National Statement

Tēnā koutou katoa. Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. New Zealand, and all nations represented here today, are already dealing with the impacts of climate change. Our households, businesses, and economies are bearing the costs of its effects. The choices we make now will shape the severity of these impacts for generations ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Latest Quarterly Investment Report released

The Government has released its second Quarterly Investment Report (QIR) which shows substantial work still to be done by agencies to improve investment reporting and meet the Government’s expectations, Infrastructure and Acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “New Zealand has significant infrastructure and investment needs. The Government is determined to get ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
New Zealand supporting loss and damage fund

Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$10 million to the new Fund for Responding to Loss and Damage while at the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP29) in Baku, Azerbaijan. “New Zealand is joining the global effort to address the significant challenge of responding to ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Gang crackdown begins at stroke of midnight

The free ride for gangs is over when the clock strikes midnight tonight, with tough new laws officially coming into effect, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell say. “Gang patches will no longer be able to be worn in public. To earn the right to wear a ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
LGFA increases borrowing capacity to support high growth councils

The Government is welcoming the decision by the Local Government Funding Agency to increase access to financing tools for fast growing councils to support greater investment in critical infrastructure, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says.“Communities across the country are facing an infrastructure deficit and significant population growth is projected in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Temporary Traffic Management costs revealed

The Government has revealed that over the past three years, the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) has spent an eyewatering $786 million of taxpayers’ money on road cones and temporary traffic management (TTM), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“When I became Minister, I was surprised to learn that that NZTA did ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Jurisdiction of Disputes Tribunal to double

Legislation that will double the financial jurisdiction of the Disputes Tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000 has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith. “We need to improve court timeliness and access to justice so that Kiwis and get on with their lives. Court delays affect everyone, the ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Protecting New Zealand from foreign interference

Legislation that will specifically criminalise foreign interference and strengthen espionage offences has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It is normal and appropriate for states to interact and work to influence one another. This encourages cooperation and can have mutually beneficial outcomes. “However, the reality ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Significant milestone for Canterbury Road of National Significance

Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news that the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Board has approved funding towards pre-implementation and early works on the State Highway 1 (SH1) Belfast to Pegasus Motorway and Woodend Bypass Road of National Significance (RoNS). “Reaching this significant milestone is a reflection of our Government’s ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Health survey results to help drive change

Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says findings from the annual Health Survey highlight the need to continue driving better health outcomes for New Zealanders. The New Zealand Health Survey is an annual snapshot of key metrics measured from July 2023 – July 2024. Findings released this morning include: In 2023/24, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Final push needed to get to Smokefree 2025

A renewed effort to get people to quit smoking will build on what has worked to date and target the groups who most need support, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello said today. “The latest New Zealand Health Survey results show the daily smoking rate at 6.9 per cent and we ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
New diplomatic appointments

Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced four new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill

Regulation Minister David Seymour has today announced the next steps in the Government’s plan improve the quality of regulation by opening consultation on a proposed Regulatory Standards Bill. “New Zealand's low wages can be blamed on low productivity, and low productivity can be blamed on poor regulation,” says Mr Seymour. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Red Tape Tipline goes live

Minister for Regulation David Seymour has today announced that the Ministry for Regulation’s Red Tape Tipline is now live. “We want to hear about your red tape horror stories. From today, New Zealanders will have a say on how they are regulated through an online portal,” says Mr Seymour. The ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Youth Parliament 2025 announced

The Minister for Youth Matt Doocey has today announced the eleventh Youth Parliament will be taking place in 2025. “Youth Parliament offers a unique youth development opportunity to young people from across New Zealand to experience the political process and learn about how government works,” says Mr Doocey. “The two-day ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Police stats show promising change

After nearly a year in Government, Kiwis have seen significant change across law and order with promising early results shown across some Police statistics, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “In August 2023, I told New Zealanders that if they had not started to see a change in public safety within ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Better coordination of anti-scam efforts

With the launch of Fraud Awareness Week, the Government is committing to new coordination efforts across industry and government to combat online scams, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Online financial scams are a growing problem for New Zealand. New data released today shows that Kiwis lost nearly ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Minister to consider 7AA select committee report

Minister for Children Karen Chhour will consider the recommendations made by the Social Services and Community Committee in its report back to Parliament on the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill. “I want to thank the people who made submissions and those who appeared before the committee in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Defence Minister to attend ASEAN meeting

Defence Minister Judith Collins will this week attend the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Defence Ministers’ Meeting-Plus in Vientiane, Laos. “We need to take every opportunity to engage with our international partners, given the increasingly unstable geo-political situation,” Ms Collins says. “New Zealand has a long-standing commitment to this ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Launching the White Ribbon Ride

The Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, Karen Chhour, was on hand to wish riders well at the start of the North Island leg of the White Ribbon Ride in Whakatāne this morning. The ride helps mark the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 days ago
Construction to begin on next stage of Papakura to Drury

Construction on the next stage of the SH1 Papakura to Drury project will begin early next month, with the contract for works awarded to Fulton Hogan, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. "SH1 Papakura to Drury is a key project that will drive economic growth and productivity, reduce congestion, and enable people ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago

Gang patch ban: The first 24 hours

The first arrest was made just three minutes after midnight, with 11 more to come. ...

Radio NZ – political

37 minutes ago
New Zealand Government Urged To Back ICC Arrest Warrants For Israeli Leaders Without Equivocation

“We are waiting for our government to announce it will arrest Netanyahu and Gallant immediately if they set foot in Aotearoa New Zealand” says PSNA National Chair John Minto. ...

Scoop politics

51 minutes ago
Justice Committee Makes Further Decisions About Submissions Process For The Principles Of The Treaty...

The committee plans to hold hearings in the week starting Monday, 27 January and the weeks starting 10, 17 and 24 February 2025. ...

Scoop politics

1 hour ago
Watch live: Christopher Luxon faces questions during power station visit

It comes as Labour accuses National of not listening to evidence about boot camps. ...

Radio NZ – political

1 hour ago
Survivors of abuse in care know how redress should work – will the government finally listen?

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Winter, Associate Professor in Political Theory, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Getty Images When Prime Minister Christopher Luxon stood in Parliament last week to apologise to survivors of abuse in care, his words were among many fine speeches by ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 hours ago
Review: The Day of the Jackal is a riveting and ridiculous ride

Eddie Redmayne’s globe-trotting assassin thriller on TVNZ is worth putting your phone down for. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. This is a vulnerable thing to say as someone who often writes about television for a job, but boy am I really ...

The SpinoffBy Alex Casey

2 hours ago
RNA editing is the next frontier in gene therapy – here’s what you need to know

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Flora Hui, Research Fellow, Centre for Eye Research Australia and Honorary Fellow, Department of Surgery (Ophthalmology), The University of Melbourne IoanaB/Shutterstock The United States Food and Drug Administration has just approved the first-ever clinical trial that uses CRISPR-Cas13 RNA editing. Its ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
Yes, you still need to use sunscreen, despite what you’ve heard on TikTok

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katie Lee, PhD Candidate, Dermatology Research Centre, The University of Queensland Karolina Grabowska/Pexels Summer is nearly here. But rather than getting out the sunscreen, some TikTokers are urging followers to chuck it out and go sunscreen-free. They claim it’s healthier ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
Humans are killing off the old and wise animals that hold nature together. Here’s what must change

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Keller Kopf, Senior Lecturer in Ecology, Charles Darwin University Laxmikant Ameenagad, Shutterstock In humans and other animals, ageing is generally associated with a decline in biological function. But scientists are now discovering older animals perform vital roles in populations and ecosystems. ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
A man scouring Google Earth found a mysterious scar in the Australian outback – and now scientists...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matej Lipar, Adjunct Research Fellow, School of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Curtin University Author provided/Google Earth Earlier this year, a caver was poring over satellite images of the Nullarbor Plain when he came across something unexpected: an enormous, mysterious scar etched ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
Design as a movement: how First Nations people take ownership of their cultural stories through fash...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Treena Clark, Chancellor’s Indigenous Research Fellow, Faculty of Design, Architecture and Building, University of Technology Sydney Once located 250 metres to the east of the Art Gallery of South Australia, the grand beaux-arts style Jubilee Exhibition Building was constructed to house the ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
‘We need more doctors’ – Support for new Waikato medical school

The Association of Salaried Medical Specialists says a third medical school and more students in Auckland and Otago are both needed. ...

Radio NZ – political

4 hours ago
Cricket balls can concuss and even kill batters – at all levels, helmet use must be taken seriousl...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Annette Greenhow, Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law, Bond University Linda George/Shutterstock The ten-year anniversary of the death of much-loved Australian cricketer Phillip Hughes falls on November 27. The 25-year-old’s life was tragically cut short in 2014 when a bouncer ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

4 hours ago
Hold the roosters, no economic dawn yet

Treasury likely to downgrade economic forecast while Chris Bishop says the government won’t be ‘a slave to a surplus’, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Recession will be deeper and last longer — Treasury At a recent Spinoff ...

The SpinoffBy Anna Rawhiti-Connell

4 hours ago
Knowing superstitions aren’t real doesn’t stop us behaving superstitiously – why?

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephanie Gomes-Ng, Senior Lecturer of Psychology, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Former New Zealand prime minister John Key has three white rabbits painted on his helicopter, a nod to his “massively superstitious” habit of repeating “white rabbits” three times at ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

6 hours ago
Government slammed for pushing ahead with boot camps while trial still under way

The coalition has "absolutely no intention of listening to the evidence that comes out of their experiment", Labour MP says. ...

Radio NZ – political

6 hours ago
Smoke and mirrors in tobacco debate

Labour claims Government is ‘cherry-picking’ smoking trends data to hide decade-first increase in daily smokers The post Smoke and mirrors in tobacco debate appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Fox Meyer

6 hours ago
Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate

Labour claims Government is ‘cherry-picking’ smoking trends data to hide decade-first increase in daily smokers The post Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Fox Meyer

6 hours ago
Treasury bangs the drum on ‘unsustainable’ superannuation

The Government’s economic adviser is sending a message it doesn’t want to hear – superannuation is increasingly unaffordable The post Treasury bangs the drum on ‘unsustainable’ superannuation appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Tina Morrison

7 hours ago
Victims of sex offending welcome shift on name suppression laws

A man abused by a former political figure is "immensely relieved" at a government proposal to end secrecy around sex offenders' identities. ...

Radio NZ – political

7 hours ago
This week three parties stood together – can they withstand the storm to come?

There is plenty yet to play out, but the next election is at this rate shaping up as trio versus trio, writes Toby Manhire. A subplot of this week’s historic hīkoi mō te Tiriti has been the sight of the three opposition parties presenting a unified front. Te Pāti Māori ...

The SpinoffBy Toby Manhire

7 hours ago
All 33 malls in Auckland ranked from worst to best

From the low lows of abandon empires to the high highs of a mall done just right. This is the second in the Malls of New Zealand series, where we rank the malls in major centres. Next week: Wellington. A note from the editor: This is the hardest ranking we’ve ...

The SpinoffBy Group Think

7 hours ago
The cost of being: A clothes-mad 20-something who walks everywhere

As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a 27-year-old apartment-dwelling marketing exec explains her approach to spending and saving. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here. Gender: Female. Age: 27. Ethnicity: Pākehā. Role: Marketing exec at ...

The SpinoffBy The Cost of Being

7 hours ago
Nuclear winters know no borders

Opinion: The immediate horror of nuclear weapon explosions – the blinding flash, crushing blast wave, and radioactive inferno – is well documented.But what nuclear-armed nations either don’t grasp or won’t admit, is far more chilling: how their weapons could devastate even countries thousands of kilometres from any mushroom clouds.The collapse ...

NewsroomBy Nick Wilson and Matt Boyd

7 hours ago
This week’s bestselling books – November 22

FICTION1 Kāwai: Tree of Nourishment by Monty Soutar (David Bateman, $39.99)Sample dialogue, all from one chapter:“That can’t be,” replied Taona doubtfully.“You were right. The pā is unnervingly quiet,” Taona murmured.“The Hākuwai,” Motukia breathed. “Our grandfathers told us they rarely saw the Hākuwai in daylight,” Motukia muttered.“Their fight would have been futile ...

NewsroomBy Steve Braunias

7 hours ago
Burma the flying elephant

After about two and a half years of planning and waiting, New Zealand’s last elephant has moved to her new home at Monarto Safari Park in South Australia.Burma and her “human herd”, that is, her keepers, arrived last week, and she’s settling in well, according to Auckland Zoo’s Andrew Coers.“Something ...

NewsroomBy Gwen McClure

7 hours ago
NZ’s membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy

Senior ministers in the coalition suggested NZ’s membership will be re-evaluated if it restarts offshore oil and gas drilling The post NZ’s membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Marc Daalder

7 hours ago
Raw Politics: Six months in a leaky Bill

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon did not meet the Treaty Principles Bill hikoi crowd, sees “nothing” of merit in the Act-proposed law but the Parliament his Government dominates will spend six months debating a “divisive” measure.That’s because he has accepted there needs to be “aeration” of people’s views on the Treaty, ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Staff

7 hours ago
Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to selling big Whakapapa ski field

Bidder Whakapapa Holdings walked away from the sales process last year, but says it’s now ‘95% there’ on a purchase agreement – so who blinked first? The post Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to selling big Whakapapa ski field appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Andrew Bevin

7 hours ago
Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November

Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp');Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions.The post Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Puzzles

7 hours ago
Daily crossword, Friday 22 November

The post Daily crossword, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Puzzles

7 hours ago
China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term

Opinion: Recent discussions in Shanghai provide some insight into what’s likely to be on the table The post China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Jason Young

7 hours ago
Watts nears a landmark deal on global carbon trading

A framework for global carbon trading under the Paris Agreement is finally nearing completion at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan after years of halting talks.Climate Change Minister Simon Watts is one of two ministers tasked by the COP29 hosts with landing a long-sought deal on Article 6 of the climate accord, ...

NewsroomBy Marc Daalder

7 hours ago
Grattan on Friday: Marles plays a defensive bat on nuclear as the government rushes to get though la...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Richard Marles is an ambitious man who hasn’t given up the dream of one day reaching the top job. But, despite being deputy prime minister, his profile is much lower than that of Treasurer Jim ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

13 hours ago
Fears Māori will pay heaviest price if police carry guns

"Overwhelmingly, those people who die will be young Māori men," the spokesperson for People Against Prisons Aotearoa says. ...

Radio NZ – political

14 hours ago
NEW POLL: Kiwis Overwhelmingly Support MPs’ Expenses Transparency Law Change

62% of respondents support the extension of the OIA to cover MPs’ spending, compared to just 13% opposed and 24% were unsure. ...

Scoop politics

15 hours ago
The House: Meanwhile, a week of passing law

The political week has been packed with worthy distractions, but all week Parliament has focused on passing new laws. Here are the highlights. ...

Radio NZ – political

15 hours ago
The biggest difference between Hīkoi mō te Tiriti and past hīkoi: More support from non-Māori

Analysis - The diversity of voices during the hīkoi was noticeable - from tangata moana to young immigrants to elderly Pākehā from the South Island. ...

Radio NZ – political

16 hours ago
The House: Samoan citizenship restoration – ‘It means we belong to this land’

When the bill to restore NZ citizenship to some Samoans passed this week, Parliament's galleries were full to the brim with members of the community. ...

Radio NZ – political

16 hours ago
More Delays In Action On Use Of Puberty Blockers With Children

Women’s Rights Party Co-leader Jill Ovens says the Ministry has put New Zealand children at risk by continuing to allow “off-label” prescribing of puberty blockers at far higher rates than other similar countries. ...

Scoop politics

17 hours ago

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.

National no friends

Related Posts

194 comments on “National no friends ”

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

Related Posts

Related Posts

Related Posts

Related Posts

National no friends

Share this:

Related Posts

194 comments on “National no friends ”

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

Share this:

Related Posts

Share this:

Related Posts

Share this:

Related Posts

Share this:

Related Posts