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Good call from Ardern

Written By: - Date published: 9:46 am, October 3rd, 2017 - 86 comments
Categories: election 2017, greens, jacinda ardern, labour, nz first - Tags: ,

I have very mixed feelings about a Labour Green NZF government. I certainly don’t think that Labour should “pay any price”. So I’m pleased to see Jacinda Ardern acknowledging the Greens (even though dumping on them would smooth the path with Winston):

Labour leader Jacinda Ardern won’t sideline Greens in coalition negotiations

Labour leader Jacinda Ardern has rejected leaving the Green Party on the crossbenches as part of negotiations to form a government.

Asked whether she would entertain a hypothetical request for the Greens to be locked out of government position, Ardern on Tuesday told Newshub’s The AM Show she opposed the idea.

“I have had it suggested to me that they could simply sit on the crossbenches because they’re easier to deal with. I’ve said I don’t think that is a fair way to treat their support,” she said.

But she would not confirm whether that meant she excepted Green MPs to have ministerial positions in Cabinet, outside Cabinet or just a confidence-and-supply agreement.

“Just because the Greens have indicated where their support will go, does not mean we should disrespect the vote and support they bring,” Ardern said. …

If a Labour Green NZF government is formed in October I hope to see the Greens as an equal and active part of it.

86 comments on “Good call from Ardern ”

  1. Stephen Doyle 1

    Julie Anne Genter as Minister of Transport, yes please!

    • cleangreen 1.1

      Julie Anne was sitting next to Winston at the North Auckland rail debate last month and they both supported regional rail restoration so yes this would be good to see Julie Anne in the rail portfolio.

      Though I am demused since after the last labour lead Government re-nationalised our rail system so I would like to see the return of a stand alone “Minister of Rail” as we had when we owned it last in pre-1992?

      Winston or another strong rail advocate within NZF could assume this portfolio?

      • Skinny 1.1.1

        Few people know National were set to go down the privatisation route again with our Railway. It would have been business as usual. Pity the MSM haven’t done an OIA on talks between the Reserve & the Kiwi Rail board.

        That is however effectively dead now since either NZ First or Greens will be needed by National.

  2. Yes I like what Jacinda is saying – true and smart.

    ‘Dumping’ on the greens would not smooth the negotiations but actuate the worst fears of Green supporters and there would be no good things to come from that, I promise.

    • Wensleydale 2.1

      True. The only thing the Greens would offer Labour after that would be contempt, and justifiably so. And Labour, for the sake of political expediency, would find themselves in National’s uneviable position — frantically casting about in desperate search of friends they no longer have. Because they burned them all.

  3. Bearded Git 3

    I’m sure Winston could coexist with Shaw and Genter in the Cabinet….whether Shaw/Genter enjoy the experience of being in a Cabinet with Winston is another matter.

    • Shona 3.1

      Who cares?/ Really is it feelings that matter now??? Labour are fucking lucky they have a shit show of gaining power thanks to NZ First. All respect is due to Peters and his party needs to be shown.Labour needs to get over itself. They suck and we the public know this!

      • r0b 3.1.1

        You seem very angry Shona. Is it a nice day where you are? Maybe try a walk outside in the fresh air?

      • cleangreen 3.1.2

        10000% agree with Shona.

        We really need to show the thee Coalition groups equal respect now as we get coalition talks going forward.

        • red-blooded 3.1.2.1

          So how does saying Labour “suck” and “need to get over themselves” help to promote respect then, cleangreen? Because that’s what Shona said. She wasn’t saying all 3 parties need to respect each other, but that “all respect” was due to Peters – a very different message.

        • tracey 3.1.2.2

          How does respecting Green on 5.8% of votes disrespect NZF with 7.5%. Genuinely want to understand.

          • red-blooded 3.1.2.2.1

            Sorry, tracey, was that query aimed at me? Because I don’t understand how my comment could be interpreted as meaning that any of the 3 parties should be disrespected. Care to clarify?

      • Anne 3.1.3

        All respect is due to Peters and his party needs to be shown.Labour needs to get over itself. They suck and we the public know this!

        This part of your comment is codswallop Shona.

        Are you getting Labour confused with National? They are the ones who have consistently tried to bring Peters down and have spread wildly inaccurate rumours about him – the latest being the superannuation faux scandal. Labour, as far as I can tell, has always been friendly with NZ First (except perhaps in 1996) and treated Peters with the utmost respect.

        Get your facts right before you go off the deep end!

    • cleangreen 3.2

      Yep Bearded Git.

      I would love to see the greens work with Winston as he has the most senior experience that is need to get our team through the minefields National leaves behind?

      I agree.

      • Bearded Git 3.2.1

        @clean green fair enough, perhaps I was too negative above… it may well be that Winston will work positively to keep a stable and progressive government working for the next three years.

        Let it be so.

  4. Sacha 4

    Sidelining the Greens now would weaken Labour’s hand in negotiations with Winston, no matter how Ardern or her advisors feel about it. Not taking it as a sign of anything more at this stage.

    • red-blooded 4.1

      How would it weaken their hand, Sacha? If anything, it may well be easier to deal with Winston if he knew Labour were prioritising NZF and he didn’t have to consider dealing with the Greens in some sort of power-sharing arrangement. (We all know how he’s spoken about and treated the Greens in the past.)

      I hope Labour are able to negotiate a 3-way coalition. I wouldn’t want to see the Greens locked out of cabinet or relegated to confidence and supply. I certainly acknowledge that Winston may have different ideas, though, and I think it’s great to hear Ardern acknowledging the Greens and making it clear that she wants them included meaningfully.

      BTW, Anthony, your link takes us to a different Herald article (about Ardern finding Peters “in good spirits”).

  5. Robert Guyton 5

    I listened to Jacinda talking with Garner and batting him about most satisfactorily, with panache and humour and I thought, “she’s good”. Her “fair to the Greens” comment was encouraging, but she was keeping the expectation levels down and not saying something that would need to be unsaid later. She says, “50-50” in terms of Labour and National’s chances and that was the only time I felt she was hedging politically. I reckon the proportions are strongly in favour of the Left 🙂

    • Wensleydale 5.1

      I have to say, Jacinda’s mastered the art of the ‘mild reprimand’ — where she makes it clear she thinks you’re a muppet prone to asking stupid questions, but with a smile. Always with a smile.

  6. veutoviper 6

    IMHO Jacinda Ardern is handling this whole situation/hiatus with great skill – to date anyway.

    Her silence for the last week followed by her very short succinct press statement yesterday re the fact that she had spoken to Peters with a meeting planned for later this week has been in sharp contrast to the diatribe/diarrhoea of opinions, conjecture etc emanating from the press and retired politicians etc on possible coalition options.

    The interview with Duncan Garner this morning on the AM show is well worth watching for Jacinda’s good hearted but firm handling of the leading questions.
    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/10/jacinda-ardern-it-s-not-winston-peters-fault.html

    As well as her clear position on the Greens as per your post above, her references to the position Winston finds himself in at present not being his fault per se show much better diplomacy etc than we have seen from the other side (eg English, Bennett – where’s Joyce ???). That approach should go down well with Peters.

    • Anne 6.1

      You beat me to it veutoviper. Her responses reminded me of the pre-Muldoon era when politicians were generally respectful of one another and played the game fair and square.
      And look at how the two women (I don’t know any of their names) responded so positively when Jacinda gently reprimanded Duncan for asking a pointless question.

      “God loves a trier” she said. She won him over!

      • veutoviper 6.1.1

        Amanda Gillies is the woman with the short blonde hair; don’t know who the other one is. Amanda and Mark Richardson are the two usual presenters on with Duncan. The faces of the two women in the first glimpse of them this morning in the interview are quite skeptical; but as you say Jacinda won them over. Loved her remark that the call was not like a call after a first date – and so did the two women!

        I am not sure whether Jacinda won Duncan over. He blows with the wind.
        Jacinda has appeared with Duncan many times and he is all friendly etc when she is on but can be scathing about her when interviewing others such as English. Last week he had a particularly nasty rave after the preliminary election results were known. Bascially threw his toys because National had not had an outright win.

        But Jacinda is well versed in communications (her degree is in Communications) and not naive as to people like Duncan – and I understand she knows many presenters, press etc not just through her work, position but also on a different level through her relationship with Clarke Gayford and his many years of working and mixing with people in TV, radio etc.

        • Anne 6.1.1.1

          I am not sure whether Jacinda won Duncan over.

          I was thinking more in terms of the interview. Well aware Garner is one of those who hunts with hounds and runs with hares. He has a checkered back history.

        • Ed 6.1.1.2

          The blonde woman in that shot is the weather reporter Ingrid Hipkiss.
          Wonder if Mark Richardson was removed after his shaming by Ardern before.

    • CHCOff 6.2

      Good Grief, that AM show style of interviewing makes for terrible listening.

      When did interviewing become ‘interrogating’?

      The only thing informative about that interview was that it was about fishing for controversy and got none. The actual information in it, had no time to breathe and little to none of it would stick with the average listener apart from the afore mentioned point, that is if they hadn’t already switched channel.

      Who on earth has ‘mutual intelligible’ conversations’ like that????????? !!!

  7. ianmac 7

    Rob, “I certainly don’t think that Labour should “pay any price”.
    Agree totally. Time is on the Labour/Green side as they have prospects for 2020. National are desperate but if going for broke they could self destruct. I hope.

  8. Michelle 8

    I for one would like to see our Greenies have some form of power why ? because they have more social policies that align with helping our people ( Maori) and our Pacific peoples and our poor Pakeha whanau + some of our refugees and our immigrants that are being treated badly. ( taken advantage of ) Many in the above groups are marginalized they are also over- represented in bad statistics. But the gnats are not keeping true stats and they are minimizing issues by hiding social problems and victim blaming. Hence why we have such a divided country = a divisive government = the gnats.

  9. Carolyn_nth 9

    Like you, Anthony, I have mixed feelings about an NZF-Lab-GP government.

    It probably all depends on the kind of coalition it is – there are various options of ministers inside and outside cabinet to C&S – and the way it is managed.

    It also depends on the numbers of MPs for a Labour-led coalition – there does need to be a cushion against loss of an MP or 2 – or deflections from NZF to the Nats.

    In contrast a Nat-NZF government would also be as strong as the numbers, the kind of deal and how that is managed. And it is questionable whether it is an alliance that would hold for any length of time.

    It would be interesting to see how NZF weakened neoliberal capitalism in a Nat-NZF government.

    Plus some NZF MPs seem to me to lean right (Shane Jones & possibly Ron Mark). Whereas the likes of Tracy Martin always seem to me to be very like some Labour MPs.

  10. Sparky 10

    A lot of us have mixed feelings too. I had hoped to see the Greens get a bigger slice of the vote and Labour support shrink. Especially given the latter’s mostly uncommitted stance on the TPPA. Good to see the Greens and NZF as potential partners as there is no doubt where they stand.

    • red-blooded 10.1

      Sparky, you must be pretty much the only person who has no doubts where NZF stands! After all, if they are so anti the TPPA, then there’s no chance they’ll buddy up with the Nats. And yet..?

    • Sabine 10.2

      i would assume that many that usually vote Greens might have given their party votes to Labour just to assure it a greater slice of the cake. It would not be the first time this happened, it did under Clark – i think it was the third term?

      • I definitely ran into this doing a lot of volunteer campaigning for the Greens. It is a sad misunderstanding of MMP and it was relatively easy to talk genuine supporters out of that behaviour, but some people “went back to the mothership” for more nebulous reasons. It’s reasonably likely that most of the Greens’ loss of fortune was actually due to this effect, not the party’s recent internal struggles, but We’ll Never Know™ because there’s very little polling info separating them out.

  11. Stuart Munro 11

    The challenge, it seems to me, is not so much how to cobble a coalition together, but how to optimize it so that it works strenuously to reverse the long decades of massive governmental underperformance.

    I hope Labour is relatively generous with ministerial and associate positions, for several reasons. It will make the coalition more stable. It will improve the talent coverage of some ministries. And there is by golly a lot of work to be done – sharing the load will in some areas be prudent.

  12. tracey 12

    If the 11000 who signed that petition had voted Green how much, if any, would Green vote share percentage shift?

    • Craig H 12.1

      About 0.5% or so.

    • If they were Green voters and wanted to influence the coalition decisions maybe they should have joined the party and been part of discussions. It is a democratically run party and if the bluegreens really care about the environment but want a future National-Green coalition we are open to their ideas, so long as they support the party’s fundamental values.

  13. Carolyn_nth 13

    James Shaw categorically rules out going into government with the Nats – he says it’s all boring noise & his job is to try to form a government with Labour.

    RNZ reports a couple of minutes ago:

    But Mr Shaw said that speculation was getting a bit boring.

    “Our job is to form a government with the Labour Party, that’s what I said on election night, that’s what I campaigned on for the last 18 months and that’s what we are busy working on.

    “I said on election night that I think the numbers are there for a new government and that’s what we are working on, so everything else frankly is noise and no signal.”

    Mr Shaw said talk of a ‘Teal Deal’ is all being fed through proxies and is all PR and fluff, saying there was no substance to it.

    Asked whether he believed it was a paid campaign to promote the idea of a National-Greens deal, Mr Shaw said he did not know, and he did not care.

    “I’m busy trying to form a government with the Labour Party and presumably with New Zealand First as well, and I said on election night if Bill [English] wants to call, I’m happy to take the call and to have a conversation with him, but he hasn’t called, so as far as I’m concerned, everything else is pure speculation.”

    • red-blooded 13.1

      Well said by Shaw. He’s worked helluva hard and strikes me as someone with firm convictions, strong leaderships skills and a well-developed team ethos. He and Ardern both impress as the right people to be handling this situation and trying to make things work both for their respective parties and for the benefit of NZ.

      • AB 13.1.1

        Yep – Shaw and Ardern seem like real NZers – actually I could imagine BM having a beer with them.

        • Wayne_2 13.1.1.1

          They should make Shaw PM, and Ardern can stay at her lets save the world lets save the kids and cry on TV minister of altruism or whatever, and carry on cultivating her fan base of kindergarten and primary school children.

          Shaw has actually worked in real jobs and had a successful career pre-politics. Ardern has not.

          Little was a better leader and did far more for Labour than Ardern ever will. Ardern was put in just to attract the thickest 10% of the population into voting for labour. It was an appeal to the lowest common denominator who identify with her because she is one of them

          • Matthew Whitehead 13.1.1.1.1

            Sure, before going into Parliament Shaw has had a pretty successful career. But Ardern has been immersed in politics her entire life. Neither approach is more valid than the other, but all governments need both types of people, IMO.

            • Wayne_2 13.1.1.1.1.1

              That’s complete and utter BS. Immersed in politics? Immersed in self-promotion you mean —its all about promoting herself as a ‘nice’ person.

              Ardern has 9 years of parliamentary experience.
              So what? Someone with experience in the real world and perhaps a year or two of parliamentary experience easily trumps 9 years of being a lazy and ineffectual MP – only thing she is not lazy at is self promotion

  14. Wayne_2 14

    Ardern is a lightweight. Cliches and platitudes and completely devoid of any substance. A simple minded, naive schoolgirl.

    Compared with Kirk, Lange, Palmer, Clark, how far have Labour fallen.

    • Ed 14.1

      Who did you vote for?

    • Ma Rohemo 14.2

      That second to last paragraph is the most cliche riddled that I have read since Ardern took over.

    • Robert Guyton 14.3

      Wayne_2 is a lightweight. Cliches and platitudes and completely devoid of any substance. A simple minded, naive troll.
      I don’t find your comments to be genuine, Wayne_2.
      2 ticks Green?
      I doubt it.

      • Ed 14.3.1

        The two tick green claim seems at odds with much she/he posts here…..

      • Wayne_2 14.3.2

        Only because I want National out. I could not bear to vote Labour under such a skank, so voted Green.

        I realise this will help her become PM, but am confident her weaknesses will show sooner or later, and she will be rolled by Robertson, Parker, or even Twyford.

        • Stuart Munro 14.3.2.1

          You seem to be confused – only the other day you were giving the Gnats a B+.

          Jacinda is new to the role certainly, but she is a skilled communicator. She might do very well, especially with a bit of wily support from Winston, the Green’s research skills, and the institutional heft of old Labour.

          Let’s not count her out just yet – it’s not hard to be better than the outgoing government.

        • tracey 14.3.2.2

          Anyone but a woman ay Wayne 2.

    • AB 14.4

      “Ardern is a lightweight. Cliches and platitudes and completely devoid of any substance. A simple minded, naive schoolgirl.”
      That was John Key – you should have gone to Specsavers eh?

      • Wayne_2 14.4.1

        Agreed, John Key was a detestable knob, and his son Max is even worse.

        Key made his money purely through speculation, not from doing anything productive for society. His bloodlines no doubt helped him get ahead in the banking financial and world.

        • tracey 14.4.1.1

          Sexism followed by anti semitism. What a charmingg piece of work you are.

          • Stuart Munro 14.4.1.1.1

            And he still got it wrong. Max is a mere young entitled lout – he never ripped off the people he was paid and sworn to defend.

    • tracey 14.5

      Could you take your thinly veiled sexism and pop it up your arse with your head? TIA

  15. Ma Rohemo 15

    I did mean Wayne-2’s opening paragraph #14

  16. Stuart Munro 16

    Had he claimed to be a TOP supporter no-one would’ve been particularly surprised.

    • NewsFlash 16.1

      Wayne 2 is a Nat nut, just pushing another angle of the G/Nat combo, remember, National will sink to any depth to retain power, and atm, they’ve pushed the panic button.

      • Wayne_2 16.1.1

        Are you saying that all Green or left voters have to conform to a stereotype, a cookie cutter template?

        • Hanswurst 16.1.1.1

          No, I think they’re identifying you as conforming to a fairly obvious troll stereotype with your unsubtle baiting via misogyny and anti-Semitism.

        • tracey 16.1.1.2

          No but you are the first sexist, anti semetic green supporter I have ever encountrred.

          • tracey 16.1.1.2.1

            Snap

          • alwyn 16.1.1.2.2

            ” I have ever encountrred.”.
            Really? You must have led a very sheltered life.
            On second thought I have met quite a number who were anti-Semitic but they weren’t sexist as well.
            Mostly these people rail against the Rothschild family and how they rule the world.

            • tracey 16.1.1.2.2.1

              Perhaps it is just that I am mostly surrounded by National supporters who are the first in spades and the second when drunk.

        • Stuart Munro 16.1.1.3

          Holy smokes he’s tumbled us! Quick, hide the cloning vats…

        • NewsFlash 16.1.1.4

          No, I’m saying you fit the “cookie cutter template” of a NAt nut, had you actually criticized National for being the party YOU don’t support, I might have believed you, But, you didn’t, did you………..

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