Nats repeat failed bootcamp policy in plea to rally their scared angry base

30 comments on “Nats repeat failed bootcamp policy in plea to rally their scared angry base ”

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1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

   15 August 2017 at 7:11 am

   Is it time “turning sadistic vengeance fantasies into policy” became a section in the Crimes Act?

   Get tough on sadists.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     15 August 2017 at 1:19 pm

     😈
2. Cinny 2

   15 August 2017 at 8:09 am

   National have been ridiculed across all news platforms with their boot camp.

   They look like desperate fools. What an election
3. Hooch 3

   15 August 2017 at 8:16 am

   After bleating that labour need to announce policy they are now having to scramble to announce some of their own as labour have dominating the media with their releases. And given they have none they need to rehash some crap and a bit of red meat for their rump at that.
   • Tamati Tautuhi 3.1

     15 August 2017 at 9:34 am

     Labour announcing rehashed NZF Policy
4. Psycho Milt 4

   15 August 2017 at 8:33 am

   Even ACT knows better than this: Forget boot camp, fix failing schools.

   I see your point, but let’s add the disclaimer that ACT emphasises schools because it can’t mention the actual problem – poverty and inequality.
   • The Fairy Godmother 4.1

     15 August 2017 at 12:16 pm

     Agree here pm. Schools are the whipping boy for failed social welfare policies and povetry. It’s hard to teach transient children whose attendance in slack due to factors like no food in the house for lunch no money in the house for uniforms or school trips or looking after younger siblings so mum doesn’t lose her casual job with no sick leave.
5. The decrypter 5

   15 August 2017 at 9:04 am

   To balance things up somewhat quite a few drunken night time talk back callers are fully supportive of bills boot camps. A drunken vote is a good vote in bills eyes. Now to you “boot camp lot”-that’s the low life version, -your version of bills solution. It is correctly titled, for unwashed rabble like you, “Defence Forces junior academy at Waioru”. Suppose there will be a graduation and everything that glitters. Think positive.
6. ianmac 6

   15 August 2017 at 9:20 am

   Even National’s Barry Soper has a go.
   “National dusting off policy from its election war chest.”
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11904119
7. jcuknz 7

   15 August 2017 at 10:11 am

   I do not see anything wrong with the idea except I wonder which works out to be the best ‘crime academy’ … Prison or Army training plus the sic months supposedly learning what schools should have taught them to preface the army trng.
   The hysteria of this thread reads little different to what one reads on the right and can be ignored as silly politicaning.
   • red-blooded 7.1

     15 August 2017 at 11:04 am

     jcuknz, if you’re wondering which is the best crime academy, prison or army training, try reading some of the links to actual research in this area. There was a posting on this yesterday with some very calm, reasoned, evidence-based research being reported, showing that intervention through these boot camps raises recidivism. And it’s not like there are just two choice – boot camp or military training. Our society can make other choices. We can invest in family counselling, we can resource school more effectively to help meet the needs of students at risk, we can resource mentoring programmes, we can give more support to struggling families (including more reasonable rates for those living on benefits), we can provide more funded training through apprenticeships and polytechs…. If you don’t like the comments being made, just check out the resources being provided. It’s pretty clear that this is a negative and (more importantly) an ineffective style of intervention.
     • Rosemary McDonald 7.1.1

       15 August 2017 at 12:52 pm

       “Our society can make other choices. We can invest in family counselling, we can resource school more effectively to help meet the needs of students at risk, we can resource mentoring programmes, we can give more support to struggling families (including more reasonable rates for those living on benefits), we can provide more funded training through apprenticeships and polytechs…”

       All very excellent proposals…but what about the small but significant group of young offenders who have already settled deeply into life at the extreme of the margins, and for whom these preventative measures will come too late?

       Do we write them off?

       Do we create a programme of compulsory one on one intervention where the young person gets round the clock support and supervision to address substance abuse issues, literacy and numeracy, mental and physical health etc. etc.

       The ‘Boot Camp’ idea is a cheap option….warehousing is so much more cost effective (in the short term)…but if we are going to completely dismiss this, we need to have some suggestions as how this small group of young offenders already set on the path to prison can) be turned around now.
   • KJT 7.2

     15 August 2017 at 1:46 pm

     Saying we should follow evidence, is hysteria?
8. joe90 8

   15 August 2017 at 10:56 am

   its “alongside soldiers” ,

   In 2008, Minister of Defence Goff spelt it out.

   “The New Zealand Defence Force is strongly opposed to changing the nature of the successful Limited Services Volunteer course to include youth offenders.

   “They advise me that the Army does not have the necessary and relevant skills for changing the behaviour of young offenders. Placing offenders on the course would create serious problems and risk detracting from the nature and success of the LSV programme.

   “The Defence Force is also adamant that its focus must be on training highly professional and technologically skilled personnel for service in serious and dangerous international deployments. Making the Defence Force a dumping ground for offenders is not consistent with that objective,” Mr Goff said.

   https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/military-training-proven-not-work-young-offenders-%E2%80%93-goff

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/71836775/limited-service-volunteer-courses-at-trentham-stopped
   • r0b 8.1

     15 August 2017 at 11:16 am

     I was looking for that stuff last night, but finding only dead links. Thanks!
9. Cemetery Jones 9

   15 August 2017 at 11:19 am

   I’m just sitting here wondering what the poor bloody army has done to deserve this.
10. Ethica 10

    15 August 2017 at 12:46 pm

    Google Te Hurihanga. It was a programme set up by the Labour government and closed down by this one just as it was starting to have an effect. It was supported by judges and others working in youth justice. Jacinda name-checked it yesterday.
11. NZJester 11

    15 August 2017 at 1:10 pm

    Yet another rehashed policy that will do more harm than good if implemented.
    National is lacking future planning skills. Most of the long term planning has been done under previous Labour Governments and nearly all of the problems we are seeing today with, youth offending, housing, and Auckland’s traffic problems are the result of National canceling most of the planning put in place by Labour.
12. rod 12

    15 August 2017 at 4:07 pm

    I note nobody in the media is asking Boring Bill how much his boot camps are going to cost the taxpayer.
13. mary_a 13

    15 August 2017 at 5:01 pm

    National’s policy is to teach troubled youth more violence, a policy which obviously appeals to the nasty, vicious streak in its supporters.

    Compare …

    Labour youth policy – educate youth to prepare for the world they will be eventually living in as (responsible) adults.
    National youth policy – teach already troubled youth more violence.

    No contest really is it?

    Bye bye Natz … turn off the lights and shut the door on your way out.
14. jcuknz 14

    15 August 2017 at 5:11 pm

    I am sure that a ‘boot camp’ with roaring Sgt or CSM would encourage the already alienated to stay or increase their alienation … but the point is it is not the boot camp of old which our PM emphasied. But of course the left and the media immediately called it that to attack the govt.
    My question really was sarcasm and I fully support the excellent alternatives suggested.
    All are the ‘humanity’ badly needed by National to balance and temper their good policy which is making the country hum while neglecting various sectors.
    I did three months army basic training and it did me no harm, but likely I wasn’t alienated at the start, though I was glad to be out after my two years was up and I didn’t have to serve in the Korean War. Was lucky to serve at a base unit and saw those returning from Korea in shit state, poor devils.
    I believe that the army part follows six months of ‘community education’ which some how the education system failed with, and I am sure our welfare state didn’t help with the tight fisted ideological thinking of both National/Labour and now National again.
    Which takes us back to Turie’s child rearing time.
15. Eco maori 15

    15 August 2017 at 7:29 pm

    The boot camp policy of Bill English is total obnoxious rubbish anyone that has brought up Children no that children learn most of there bad habits off other children now in the business world they reward good behavior it would be better and cheaper to try something along those lines but the naysayers will have a field day trashing a policy ideas like that so we need to provide the policy and environment so our children don’t learn bad shit .One old saying I heard you can turn shit into honey but it cost a lot of money all As for the fines that just gives the police more power to interfere in the vanerable people’s lives who are just surviving who would not pay the fine anyway
    • BM 15.1

      15 August 2017 at 7:33 pm

      Do you think young Maori boys with no parental role models and guidance would respond well to being taken under the wing of some true Maori warriors and getting taught about discipline and control?
      • Kendoll 15.1.1

        15 August 2017 at 7:36 pm

        No
        • BM 15.1.1.1

          15 August 2017 at 8:27 pm

          Why?
          • ropata 15.1.1.1.1

            15 August 2017 at 8:54 pm

            Evidence
16. Eco maori 16

    15 August 2017 at 7:47 pm

    F I tried to edit the the shit saying out and use the can’t teach a old horse new tricks and better to use a carrot than a stick
17. Eco maori 17

    15 August 2017 at 7:55 pm

    BM it could work but a lot of these kids don’t even no there Maori Tanga it would be a lot better than boot camp
    • BM 17.1

      15 August 2017 at 8:29 pm

      Does that even matter?
      Get the basic of learning how to be a decent controlled human being sorted first, then move on to the who you are stuff once that’s sorted.
    • jcuknz 17.2

      16 August 2017 at 9:30 am

      Not no there but I think you mean know their.

      After six months learning what school didn’t succeed in teaching them I am sure they would be better.

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