Not for sale hikoi arrives in Wellington

99 comments on “Not for sale hikoi arrives in Wellington ”

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1. james 111 1

   4 May 2012 at 7:57 am

   Would be really good if most of them knew the facts ,and what they are actually marching for

   [they know the facts better than you. Eddie]

   [lprent: As Eddie politely said. I’m less polite. You tend to be a bit of a parrot. You repeat the words of others with little evidence of actually ever understanding what you are waffling about. It shows up on the odd occasions when you try to argue in support of “your views”. I guess that is why you assume everyone else doesn’t bother to think about issues – you are projecting yourself. ]
   • fender 1.1

     4 May 2012 at 5:03 pm

     Would be even better if you james knew why you were so infatuated with this Nact Govt and all the destructive policies they wish to implement. You are one of their most loyal cheerleaders but you never have a credible reason for supporting their rampant destruction. Like a brain-washed parrot you spew your version of the bullshit you have swollowed. This makes you appear incapable of independant thought and very naive. I wish you could spend some time getting educated on the issues before you rush to condemn others for not knowing what they are marching for.
2. ianmac 2

   4 May 2012 at 10:08 am

   Avaaz.org has a system whereby Petitions can be signed online by individuals. Is there provision for that for the No Sale? Would pick up many more signatures from those who are outside major centres.
   • weka 2.1

     4 May 2012 at 11:51 am

     I doubt it – the petition is to the government to hold a referendum and as such I’m guessing they will need the information and signatures to be in hardcopy.

     You could print out the petition yourself (see link above) and post it in though (and get others to sign it!) 🙂
     • ianmac 2.1.1

       4 May 2012 at 12:12 pm

       Thanks Weka. When responding to the Avaaz petitions, it requires email address, Name and address and so on and in this day and age I think such action is regarded as legal as a paper form. Surely some clever chap could find out because the ease of access would allow many more sign ups. No Right Turn perhaps.
       • Deano 2.1.1.1

         4 May 2012 at 12:41 pm

         No-one should go altering the forms in any way.

         There’s very strict rules around these petitions. If they are altered in any way from the forms approved by the Clerk of Parliament, they will be rejected.
         • ianmac 2.1.1.1.1

           4 May 2012 at 2:43 pm

           Ta Deano.
       • weka 2.1.1.2

         4 May 2012 at 5:29 pm

         Ianmac, I also live in an area where it’s possible I will never see the petition so I know what you are meaning. I think it’s pretty easy to fake email. Does Avaaz generate petitions that can be presented to parliaments? That standard is much higher when it’s for something like a referendum. I’d be interested to hear from some techies whether online petitions are less reliable than hardcopy ones (I’m assuming they are).
3. Rich 3

   4 May 2012 at 12:13 pm

   Sadly, I can’t make the hikoi – too busy at work.

   I suspect the petition will be roundly ignored. A better solution might be if everyone chips in what they can afford to a fund to bribe Peter Dunne. Perhaps Pete George could enlighten us as to the usual ‘election contribution’ required – I’m guessing the mid-five figures?
   • Deano 3.1

     4 May 2012 at 12:42 pm

     if the petition gets 10% of the enrolled population, a referendum is compulsory.

     Let National ignore the results of that referendum – likely to be held a year out from the next election – at their own risk.
     • Foreign Waka 3.1.1

       4 May 2012 at 3:29 pm

       A referendum may well be compulsory, but is it binding? I do not belief that this Government really wants to listen. The worst part however is, that Mr Shearer is not really offering. any alternative
   • Matt 3.2

     4 May 2012 at 12:42 pm

     Yes, and split into two parts for ‘anonymity’.
   • bbfloyd 3.3

     4 May 2012 at 12:56 pm

     sadly.. it would be a waste of money… dunne was on tv last night being utterly dismissive of the hikoi(showing a personal bias toward members of said hikoi).. and making it very clear that he is firmly lodged in amongst johnny sparkles hemorrhoids, and isn’t planning to cut loose any time soon…
     • Tigger 3.3.1

       4 May 2012 at 3:19 pm

       Apparently Dunne tweeted this: Hikoi on asset sales marches to Parliament on a day when it is not sitting – says a lot about the brains behind them.

       Nice Mr Dunne.
4. TheContrarian 4

   4 May 2012 at 12:40 pm

   I just watched the Hikoi from my office balcony in Wellington. Quite a large turnout.
   • insider 4.1

     4 May 2012 at 1:08 pm

     2000 according to stuff
     • Pascal's bookie 4.1.1

       4 May 2012 at 1:20 pm

       Quite a few folks on twitter saying it’s overflowed the parliamentary forecourt. 2000 my arse if that’s true.
       • insider 4.1.1.1

         4 May 2012 at 1:50 pm

         Parliament’s forecourt is not that big. I’ve been there when a protest of about 250 was on and it filled quite a bit in front of the steps.the organisers claimed 400 to 500 and it ‘looked’ like that many.

         So 2000 is compatible with spilling over the forecourt IMO. Note that I;ve not seen the protest today so happy to accept 5k as the number.
         • Pascal's bookie 4.1.1.1.1

           4 May 2012 at 1:53 pm

           Are you including the lawn in the forecourt? It’s a pretty big area. You’d fit 2000 in easy.
           • insider 4.1.1.1.1.1

             4 May 2012 at 3:50 pm

             Looking at the pics on Stuff it doesn’t look like 5k. You get about 500 in between the steps and teh flagpoles. That’s about 1/4 of the area and going to be the densest in terms of people.
       • Gosman 4.1.1.2

         4 May 2012 at 2:13 pm

         The Policeman I spoke to walking at the end of the protest estimated around 2000 so this figure is consistent with the Stuff figure. I’d say it was smaller than the pro Union protest I saw back in late 2010.
     • freedom 4.1.2

       5 May 2012 at 12:36 pm

       over 3000 left Te Papa easily over 5000 by the time we hit Lambton Quay
   • ianmac 4.2

     4 May 2012 at 3:03 pm

     Herald 3:01pm: “A crowd of 5000 filled the Parliamentary lawn in the latest stop of a North Island march “
5. Pete George 5

   4 May 2012 at 1:20 pm

   I’d have thought the protest movement will be very disappointed with the turnout.

   I think the variety of protest issues highlights the reality – there isn’t strong or focussed opposition to the MOM, otherwise that’s where all the attention would be.

   Asset sales always have been and still just are an anti government exercise for some (Greens, Mana and Labour) and and excuse to protest for a few ragtags.

   And the low number of comments on hikoi posts here are another indicator. Most people have other things to worry about and do far more than being political party puppets.
   • Pascal's bookie 5.1

     4 May 2012 at 1:27 pm

     What would you say would be a good turnout in wellington on a work day Pete?

     And as noted, I’d be careful jumping on that 2000 number. Suspect that’ll get revised. They took at least 1/2 hr to walk past my building.
     • insider 5.1.1

       4 May 2012 at 1:43 pm

       Stuff now upped that to 5k
     • Pete George 5.1.2

       4 May 2012 at 1:51 pm

       I’m sure various numbers will be suggested. Whatever the consensus is, I don’t think this will be sending shivers up National’s spine.

       If I felt strongly enough about a specific issue I’d take a day off work to protest. But the hikoi didn’t interest me, and it was just a single island multi message protest anyway.

       If National continue with their plan to break their commitment to a 49% ownership limit I’d go out of my way to protest that.
       • TheContrarian 5.1.2.1

         4 May 2012 at 1:55 pm

         What struck me from my vantage point was many of the younger protesters were wearing Mana Party jerseys but with that bandanna’s covering their faces in the gangster style. That sort of thing would really turn older voters off the party and doesn’t look particularly respectable. 
         • Uturn 5.1.2.1.1

           4 May 2012 at 2:48 pm

           Gosh, how awful. Think of all those conservative oldies that are just aching to vote Mana, but can’t. If only Mana supporters would wear the business suits that our corrupt gangster politicians wear, with the strip of cloth tied round their necks instead, our political scene would become respectable overnight.
           • Gosman 5.1.2.1.1.1

             4 May 2012 at 2:57 pm

             The funniest sight at the march was actually some person dressed up as John Key with paper mache head, suit jacket with tie, and brown corduroy trowsers. Gotta love that sense of style and realism.
             • Pascal's bookie …

               4 May 2012 at 3:51 pm

               Nah, the funniest thing was the distinguished looking older gent cradling a small hand written sign that just said “No. Fuck you”
       • McFlock 5.1.2.2

         4 May 2012 at 1:57 pm

         Not everyone can arbitrarily ditch an afternoon’s work, pete.
              
         But I tend to agree with your other point. Protests, petitions, polls – National don’t give a shit. I think they’re resigned to losing in 2014 if not sooner.
     • Pete George 5.1.3

       4 May 2012 at 2:01 pm

       Here’s an indication of part of the problem (they say “hundreds of people” but that looks a bit light):

       They are protesting at Government plans to sell up to 49% of state-owned energy companies and reduce the Crown’s shareholding in Air New Zealand.

       Radio New Zealand’s reporter says groups within the demonstration are also protesting against the proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership, against fracking and in support of saving Maui’s dolphins.

       http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/105002/asset-sale-protesters-rally-at-parliament

       About the only thing missing was “Save John Banks”.
       • alex 5.1.3.1

         4 May 2012 at 4:50 pm

         @ Pete – By the usual suspects do you mean people who are expressing their right to protest?
         What a patronising man you must be, to talk down to people who dare express a political opinion.
         • TheContrarian 5.1.3.1.1

           4 May 2012 at 5:01 pm

           “What a patronising man you must be, to talk down to people who dare express a political opinion”

           Really? Are you serious? look at some of the responses to Pete expressing his political opinions round here. Look at the way some of the people on the standard here treat others who disagree, even politely. Even the moderators wander around calling people “dumb” and “dicks” quite frequently and for almost no reason other than not being in total agreement. 
           • felix 5.1.3.1.1.1

             4 May 2012 at 5:21 pm

             Pete doesn’t generally get much grief for expressing his political opinions.

             Quite the contrary, as it happens. He gets grief when he waffles on for ages without voicing any opinions.

             He also cops a fair bit of grief for making out that everyone’s attacking him for his political opinions when any fuckwit can see that’s not really the case.

             And don’t get on your high horse about politeness while in the same breath attributing motives to others’ behaviour that you just pulled out of your arse. Most impolite of you.
             • Pete George …

               4 May 2012 at 6:33 pm

               I wouldn’t call it grief but I often get nitpicks and niggles regardless of what I say or link to. It’s common for people here to ignore what I say and criticise me regardless of what I’ve said.

               I don’t grieve over it, mostly I laugh at it because it is often idiotic and/or pathetic, and often without foundation.
               • felix …

                 4 May 2012 at 7:28 pm

                 “I wouldn’t call it grief but I often get nitpicks and niggles “

                 haha who’s nitpicking now? 😀

                 Didn’t mean to imply that you “grieved” over anything btw. Perhaps it’s a colloquialism with slightly different regional meanings. Or I’ve been using it wrong for a long time…
             • Pete George …

               4 May 2012 at 6:43 pm

               he waffles on for ages without voicing any opinions.

               I’m often not here to voice my opiniion, it’s to find out other people’sm opinions. I know that’s an alien concept for many of the instant opinionaters here but it can be useful and also can be fun.

               But felix, I don’t expect you to really understand, especially if all you do is comment under favoured moderation status.

               If you want to understand try doing something like commenting on an even playing field like Kiwiblog. Don’t just dabble, do it regularly for a year or two. Then come back and lecture about me here.
             • felix …

               4 May 2012 at 7:41 pm

               I don’t think I have any special favour here Pete, except the favour that tends to follow good looks and charm anywhere. I get my warnings and unlike many others I take note of them. I observe the boundaries set by the mods and I’m careful with my phrasing so as to stay within them most of the time.

               You’re very good at this too, I’ve noticed.

               As for Kiwiblog, it doesn’t interest me in the slightest except in an archeological sense.
         • OneTrack 5.1.3.1.2

           4 May 2012 at 6:39 pm

           No he means the semi-professional rent-a-mob who don’t have to worry about taking a few weeks off work to have a happy holiday down the country because they get “paid” anyway
     • deuto 5.1.4

       4 May 2012 at 2:33 pm

       As someone has noted, Stuff are now estimating the crowd in Parliament grounds at about 5000.

       In my personal experience in the past being a long time Wellingtonian, on a work day many people working in the Lambton Quay, Terrace and Thorndon areas of downtown Wellington (including many public servants working close to Parliament) go straight to Parliament grounds rather than walking from the other end of town. Also, people coming in from the Hutt, for example, by bus or train go straight there as the railway station and bus terminals are directly opposite Parliament.

       From the photos, I would say that there is at least 5000.
       • deuto 5.1.4.1

         4 May 2012 at 2:52 pm

         PS – the Herald are also reporting 5000.

         At the end of the article, these gems:

         Mr Dunne did not attend the protest, but tweeted earlier in the day: “Hikoi on asset sales marches to Parliament on a day when it is not sitting – says a lot about the brains behind them.”

         A lone pro-National protester, carrying a sign which read “John Key is the best Prime Minister we have ever had”, was moved to the fringe of the protest by police “for his own safety”.

         Wish I had been able to attend, but clashed with a necessary appointment that I was unable to negotiate to a more convenient time.
         • fender 5.1.4.1.1

           4 May 2012 at 9:19 pm

           Intuition tells me that the lone pro- Key dingbat was james 111.
   • Frida 5.2

     4 May 2012 at 3:23 pm

     Would have been there if I wasn’t stuck in Auckland for work. And I know lots of people in my position. For some of us Pete, it’s not as easy as ‘take a day off’. We’ve all signed the petition though and will do whatever else it takes. Your boss and his puppet masters have their heads in the sand. And as for your boss’s rude tweets, tell him we are all educated professionals too. With more brains than he has in his last follicle.
6. Tiger Mountain 6

   4 May 2012 at 2:15 pm

   The ‘usual suspects’ play fast and loose with numbers on most demos but this hikoi in particular is a major worry for them due to what it indicates. The numbers have not been anti mining 50,000 huge but it is a most significant event none the less. Mostly a Mana/Greens faction/hard left event organised on a near zero koha budget at relatively short notice.

   What really loosens the rights guts is the prospect of Māori nationalists and tau iwi lefties and greenies uniting. And whinge on about numbers all you like but in smaller towns for the last several weeks thousands of people (collectively), particularly young ones, have been participating in public political activity, a fightback non parliamentary base is being built. Iwi have been assisting locked out workers, and many tau iwi are finally paying decent attention to the post colonial dynamic and fallout that persists in this country.

   Chris Trotter is correct that several public referendum petitions have stalled short of the required signatures mark, every Standard reader of sound mind and good intent should do their bit to make sure this one does not. Aotearoa Is Not For Sale.
   • Gosman 6.1

     4 May 2012 at 2:20 pm

     “What really loosens the rights guts is the prospect of Māori nationalists and tau iwi lefties and greenies uniting.”

     Do you have any evidence for this or is this just your loose gut feeling?
   • OneTrack 6.2

     4 May 2012 at 6:36 pm

     What about New Zealand?
7. Gosman 7

   4 May 2012 at 2:19 pm

   I must state that you lefties do have some wacky people supporting you.

   I spoke to some guy who expressed concern about the proposed Open Bank Resolution plan that the Reserve bank has put out recently. He thought it was all about the Government stealing people’s deposits.

   There was the obligatory ‘Fractional Reserve Banking system is evil’ guy. I could have been talking to C.V or DTB.

   Finally some elderly NZ First supporter, (I know the adjective was really unnecessary), who was adament that partially selling assets were Treason. Couldn’t really argue his case why though.
   • vto 7.1

     4 May 2012 at 2:21 pm

     Fractional reserve banking IS evil gosman. Count me alongside that guy.
     • Gosman 7.1.1

       4 May 2012 at 2:27 pm

       Yeah, he seemed like a bit of a nut job so probably up your alley there vto.

       Interesting he thought Argentina has withdrawn from the Fractional Reserve Banking system and thought Canada between 1935 and 1974 was outside it.

       I will have to check although I did point out to him that Argentina suffered a beef shortage as a result of dumbass Government policies recently introduced to try and control the price.
8. vto 8

   4 May 2012 at 2:19 pm

   And STILL nobody has explained how having foreign landlords is a good thing.

   I suspect nobody ever will.
   • TheContrarian 8.1

     4 May 2012 at 2:29 pm

     “And STILL nobody has explained how having foreign landlords is a good thing”

     This old nugget again (though last time it was “nobody has explained how having foreign landlords is better than NZ owners).
   • Gosman 8.2

     4 May 2012 at 2:30 pm

     Because they allow you to pay them in your own currency and you can ditch them if they annoy you and still get to live in the place they rented to you.
     • vto 8.2.1

       4 May 2012 at 2:34 pm

       Oh look, there we go folks, an explanation. Never mind that its shallowness hardly even dampens the sole of my feet…

       You have convinced me. Hikoi is off everybody – gosman just explained everything.
       • Gosman 8.2.1.1

         4 May 2012 at 2:39 pm

         So now it has to be a detailed explanation that satisfies your particular standards. Jeeze make you mind up will ya!

         The point is any explanation you get you will simply reject because it fails to conform to your ideological view of the world. Fair enough, that is your right. However it does make you look silly when you keep demanding it.

         ‘I demand an explanation for something that I strongly disagree with which will satisfy my incredibly high standard of proof for an explanation!’. Ya big baby.
         • vto 8.2.1.1.1

           4 May 2012 at 2:49 pm

           Crap gosman.

           I have seen no explanation which outlines the benefits compared to the negatives in any comprehensive fashion. You know, this is actually a huge issue and its getting bigger. It deserves a decent explanation by those who promote foreign landlords.

           There has been no such explanation and yours then was a piss-take. Or, if yours above is the sole amount of explanation then it is pathetic. As you well know.
           • Gosman 8.2.1.1.1.1

             4 May 2012 at 2:59 pm

             Mine was a p#ss take it is true, (to an extent), but only because you don’t really want a serious discussion about pros and cons of foreign investment in my opinion. You just have determined you don’t like it and that is that.

             But I will humour you. What is your problem with foreign ownership of anything?
             • TheContrarian …

               4 May 2012 at 3:05 pm

               “You just have determined you don’t like it and that is that.”
               That is the feeling I got when he kept repeating “nobody has explained how having foreign landlords isbetter than NZ owners” despite not being able to provide any reference of anyone ever saying it was ‘better’.

               Now he has changed it to:  “nobody has explained how having foreign landlords is a good thing”
             • vto …

               4 May 2012 at 3:10 pm

               ” only because you don’t really want a serious discussion about pros and cons of foreign investment in my opinion. You just have determined you don’t like it and that is that. ”

               Crap again mr gosman, and a gigantic and false assumption on your part. I have been at this issue for years and years and considered it in detail and from angles and had discussions and arguments with all types on it. I have come to the opinion that foreign landlords are a substantial net negative. If someone is able to outline how it is a net positive I will listen to it. Why the f#&k do you think I keep asking for someone to explain?

               How about the promoters of foreign landlords explain? Like John Key or Peter Dumme or the Act party?
               • Gosman …

                 4 May 2012 at 3:19 pm

                 How about you explain what you particular problem with foreign owenership of anything is first and then we will take it from there?
                 • vto …

                   4 May 2012 at 3:25 pm

                   no. done it countless times. Now it is the turn of the promoters of foreign landlords.

                   How about you explain how having foreign landlords is a good thing. Because not a single person has.
                   • Pete George …

                     4 May 2012 at 3:49 pm

                     I’m not aware of any promoters of “foreign landlords”.

                     Why haven’t foreign interests bought all available listed companies in New Zealand? For similar reasons that they won’t buy all the MOM shares. They won’t be able to even if they wanted to.
                   • vto …

                     4 May 2012 at 4:01 pm

                     “I’m not aware of any promoters of “foreign landlords”. ”

                     ffs Pete George, your own party is part of the government which is about to promote these assets for sale to foreigners. When people or organisations do this they are even called promoters. Have a look at the legislation around this.

                     This government is always stating that “foreign investment” is good. And that sales of land to foreigners is good. That is called promotion.

                     That is the party you stood for in the last election Pete.

                     So how about you explain the benfits fo foreign landlords. And don’t bloody nitpick the question like the fools gosman and contrarian, just bloody answer it. Why is it better to have foreign ownership (or landlords, whatever)?
                   • Pete George …

                     4 May 2012 at 4:06 pm

                     part of the government which is about to promote these assets for sale to foreigners.

                     I call bullshit on that. Your obsession with “foreign landlords” has no proven basis at all. Unless you have some secret proof it’s your paranoia or you scaremongering.
                   • vto …

                     4 May 2012 at 4:13 pm

                     Call bullshit all you like Pete – it has no effect on the facts.

                     Fact is this government has already stated there is not the purchasing capacity in NZ to buy all of these so they will NEED be sold to foreigners.

                     As for this “Your obsession with “foreign landlords” has no proven basis at all” Tell that to the 5000 in Wellington today. And what was the Crafar deal if not a foreign landlord? What on earth are going on about?

                     How is that wrong? And how is it not promotion? And what are the benefits to foreign ownership and landlords?
                   • TheContrarian …

                     4 May 2012 at 4:15 pm

                     “This government is always stating that “foreign investment” is good. And that sales of land to foreigners is good.”

                     This government is always stating that “foreign investment” is good. yes they did because investment, from any source, is good.

                     “And that sales of land to foreigners is good.” No, don’t think anyone ever said that (within this particular context)
                   • vto …

                     4 May 2012 at 4:25 pm

                     Well at least we agree that foreign investment and foreign ownership can be distinguished.
                   • vto …

                     4 May 2012 at 4:27 pm

                     which brings us back to landlords. So, how is having foreign landlords overall better, let alone good?
                   • TheContrarian …

                     4 May 2012 at 4:31 pm

                     “which brings us back to landlords. So, how is having foreign landlords overall better, let alone good?”

                     I have never stated that foreign landlords are good or better nor have I seen anyone, anywhere, argue that it is good or better.
                   • insider …

                     4 May 2012 at 5:48 pm

                     A foreign landlord who maintains and invests is better than a local one who runs his property down? How good were those guys fay and richwhite when they were landlords of the railways? Look how high margins on petrol are since nz landlords took over the largest supplier
                   • rosy …

                     4 May 2012 at 7:15 pm

                     I call bullshit on that. Your obsession with “foreign landlords” has no proven basis at all. Unless you have some secret proof it’s your paranoia or you scaremongering.

                     Advertising the sale of Crafar farms singly in China & Singapore but only as a whole group in New Zealand.

                     Potential New Zealand buyers were told the 16 Crafar farms could only be sold profitably by bundling them together but the Star-Times has now learned the farms were advertised for sale individually in China and Singapore.

                     The advertisements, in the South China Morning Post and Singapore’s Straits Times, emerged in documents released to the Sunday Star-Times by the Overseas Investment Office under the Official Information Act.

                     The ads read: “One of the largest and most highly anticipated rural portfolios to ever come to the market in New Zealand is presented for sale. A significant opportunity to invest in New Zealand’s rural and dairy sector. Farms are for sale individually or as a portfolio.”

                     And Insider – comparing ‘good’ foreign landlords to ‘bad’ New Zealand landlords in no comparison at all unless all foreign landlords are ‘good’ and all New Zealand landlords are ‘bad’.
                 • Reagan Cline …

                   4 May 2012 at 8:58 pm

                   The problem I have with foreign ownership of lasnd is that I and my people asre inseparable from it. We named it, live from it, bury our dead and our placentas in it and sweat into it, hack at it with tools, love it, fear it. A foreigner who says “I own the land you live on” claims ownership of part of me and my people..
     • Reagan Cline 8.2.2

       4 May 2012 at 6:54 pm

       So Gosman – generations of Gypsies for centuries have broken your rules and thrived – even Adolf and Jo couldn’t liquidate them – the exception that proves the rule right ?
9. Pete George 9

   4 May 2012 at 2:27 pm

   Meanwhile business as usual – I guess Ngai Tahu weren’t officially represented on the hikoi (apart from the wrong island), they’ve just sold part of an asset.:

   Ngai Tahu sells chunk of its stake in Ryman

   South Island iwi Ngai Tahu has sold down a quarter of its stake in retirement village operator Ryman Healthcare for $31.7 million with the proceeds initially to go towards bank debt but to also help residential subdivision plans.

   Trevor Burt, chairman of the corporate arm, Ngai Tahu Holdings, said the sale was part of the tribe’s diversification of its asset portfolio but also part of a strategy to hold larger stakes in fewer entities.

   The sale was also opportunistic given the recent share price gains by Ryman. Ngai Tahu had been a holder of Ryman shares for 12 to 14 years and seen very good growth in share value in that time.

   There have been some Maori money management messes but Ngai Tahu seem to have managed their’s very well.
10. Enough is Enough 10

    4 May 2012 at 3:04 pm

    The ground swell aginst this is gaining momentum daily. The opposition is unprecedented. Has there been a more hated government initiative in the past 50 years?

    The people are speaking and the government can not ignore them.

    There was anger out there today aimed at Key. If he does not listen to the will of the people that anger will boil over in the next six months in London like rioting.

    You have the choice Prime Minister. Do what New Zealand wants or watch the streets around parliament erupt.
    • Gosman 10.1

      4 May 2012 at 3:15 pm

      “The ground swell aginst this is gaining momentum daily. The opposition is unprecedented. Has there been a more hated government initiative in the past 50 years?”

      Ummmmm…..no, no, and no.

      Technically the groundswell is losing momentum if you take the support for the march in Auckland versus today. The people in the march looked like your usual suspects of Maori Nationalists, Mana Labour and Green party activists with a sprinkling of university students and the odd NZ First supporter looking out of place with their zimmer frames.

      As for the opposition being unprededented I think there might have been more people marching in the 1980’s for various causes. Do you remember the 1980’s Enough?

      Pretty sure the Government’s poll ratings suggest it isn’t as hated as say Labour was in 1990 or Muldoon in 1984.
      • muzza 10.1.1

        4 May 2012 at 3:31 pm

        As for the opposition being unprededented I think there might have been more people marching in the 1980′s for various causes. Do you remember the 1980′s Enough?

        — You point out a couple of important issues Gosman, well done. People are not marching or demonstrating as much these days, and the reasons are obvious. I don’t need to go into them too far, but higlights are. Student loans = no time to protest, immigration, they dont tend to protest, and people generally so maxed out for time due to servicing their debt, that until hard times land on their dinner table, they think they are safe from any fallout! The biggest protest of course is the >50K people per year leaving NZ, and the million or so who did NOT bother to vote, all thanks to the issues, that those who are not protesting , should be really worried about, and on the streets!
        So in fact what you mean to say is that the visible presence might be losing a little steam for now, but in fact with the rising numbers fleeing the decaying corpse that is NZ, the protest is in fact growing much larger every day!

        Pretty sure the Government’s poll ratings suggest it isn’t as hated as say Labour was in 1990 or Muldoon in 1984.

        —Again illustrating just how poor government is in this country, and it matter not what colour flag they fly. We are being taken for a ride by our parliamentary system, among other things. Voting makes no difference, thanks for pointing that out!
      • Enough is Enough 10.1.2

        4 May 2012 at 3:35 pm

        Ignore this opposition at your peril Gosman. It is very easy to dismiss this from behind your laptop but on the streets the anger is building.

        The polls show it is is hated policy. I think even the ECA had more support then this nutty idea to sell off the nations jewels.

        The pressure is and will continue to grow. Key is a pragmatist and does what he have to remain popular. He will buckle before this winter of discontent is over.

        PS Auckland is about 5 times bigger than Wellington. One would expect the protest to be bigger there you pea brained goose.
        • Pete George 10.1.2.1

          4 May 2012 at 3:56 pm

          The polls show it is is hated policy.

          I haven’t seen any polls that says that. It seems clear there’s a majority who would prefer MOM didn’t happen, but the lack of overwhelming support (and the election result) suggests that most opposition is quite mild.

          The loud protest seems to be a few whohaven’t gotten over last years’s election defeat.
          • Enough is Enough 10.1.2.1.1

            4 May 2012 at 4:04 pm

            We will never get over last years defeat. National’s attempted bully boy tactics wont crush us into submission and we will continue to fight for the same things we fought for last year.

            You are fucking naive if you think last years lost battle means we will give up.

            London shows what happens when you dismiss workers opinions. Change course now National and Dunne or the same fate is coming to a street near you. These people are sick of being ignored
            • Gosman 10.1.2.1.1.1

              4 May 2012 at 8:13 pm

              How does London show us anything?
          • thatguynz 10.1.2.1.2

            4 May 2012 at 5:02 pm

            PG,  do you not think that it’s possible that people are actually assessing a policy (or policies) and determining that they don’t think it is in their best interests independently of last years election results?
             
            I can quite happily protest (publically or otherwise) against a policy or direction that I don’t agree with – irrespective of which political party or coalition brought it to the table.  Can you?
            • Pete George 10.1.2.1.2.1

              4 May 2012 at 6:29 pm

              I can quite happily protest (publically or otherwise) against a policy or direction that I don’t agree with – irrespective of which political party or coalition brought it to the table. Can you?

              Yes, I do exactly that. I criticised John Key (again) today for (again) refusing working cross party on our super sized Super issue.

              And I can support any person or policy or party I agree with, I do it frequently. Shearer made the right call today on shelving the Cullent fund until back in surplus. At least he’s starting to get it.
          • OneTrack 10.1.2.1.3

            4 May 2012 at 7:00 pm

            There are many that haven’t got over the 2008 defeat.
            • Pete George 10.1.2.1.3.1

              4 May 2012 at 7:05 pm

              Yep, a few in Labour (especially those pulling strings) act like they haven’t woken up on the Sunday after the 2008 election.
        • Gosman 10.1.2.2

          4 May 2012 at 8:28 pm

          I didn’t just dismiss this from behind my laptop. I went into the heart of the protest and dismissed it there as well. Pretty much the usual whiny leftist protest mob. The Government must be quaking in their boots.
11. Pete George 11

    4 May 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Bad tidings from Chris Trotter:

    Many of the people I spoke to on the anti-privatisation march realised that there were “not enough” people to give the National-led Government pause, but added cheerily “still, it’s better than nothing”. Not necessarily. I would argue that Saturday’s march was, in fact, worse than nothing.

    By providing the Government with a vivid glimpse of its most vociferous opponents, and revealing just how few of them there really are (even in the country’s most populous city) the organisers of the anti-privatisation march have told the Government that it can now proceed without serious political risk.

    Given the comparatively low turnout, it would have been safer to let the poll data on privatisation do the talking. The latter showed a clear majority of voters (in some polls two-thirds to three-quarters) opposed to “partial” privatisation. Those are scary numbers. But now the Government knows that, unlike the anti-mining sentiment of 2010, the anti-privatisation sentiment of 2012 isn’t strong enough to mobilise more than “the usual suspects”.

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/pessimistic-reformist-considers.html

    That was on last weeks protest but similar numbers, and I would guess similar sentiments, on todays.
12. Tiger Mountain 12

    4 May 2012 at 3:52 pm

    @ Gosman 10.1.1: You don’t get it Gozzie, the fledgling unity in action of Māori and left activists is a slow burner that some of us have been waiting and working for many years to see. Every under 25 I see in a Mana t-shirt brings a smile to my dial. Projections are for a younger browner Aotearoa old chap so you better make plans to find a nice wee bolt hole in Paraguay or somewhere similar, if you have not already.

    The employing class spend a lot of effort on creating disunity, Muldoon pitting white workers against Samoans, Key developing two categories of boat people-rich immigrants and direct foreign investment and ownership OK, que jumpers (aka refugees well within their UN rights) not.

    Talleys-locking out for individual contracts rather than union collectives-wonder why? And neo liberalism as an ideology goes for the biggie-everyone against everyone else-I am an individual, I make choices -the ‘atomisation’ as some have termed it of societies with mutual interests into competing consuming individuals.

    You can whinge Gozzie, but change is a comin’.
    • Pete George 12.1

      4 May 2012 at 3:58 pm

      The employing class spend a lot of effort on creating disunity,

      They’re not the ones protesting in the streets trying to overturn a democratic election result.
      • Tiger Mountain 12.1.1

        4 May 2012 at 4:06 pm

        You’re still in the FPP mindset Pete, election results and parliament are but one part of political life. ShonKey hanging onto that sack of sh*t Banksie for grim death illustrates the 2011 general election was hardly a crushing defeat for opponents of asset sales.
      • OneTrack 12.1.2

        4 May 2012 at 7:09 pm

        Pete, you don’t still believe in outdated concepts like one man one vote do you?
        • Gosman 12.1.2.1

          4 May 2012 at 8:26 pm

          Obviously the left now believes in permanent elections as well as permanent revolution.
          • lprent 12.1.2.1.1

            4 May 2012 at 9:20 pm

            Obviously the conservatives still favour thundering around on horses whie pissed hitting each other with lances and battle axes while generally distaining to avoid running over the tax paying peasants.

            Traditional behavioral myths of the right…

            Wank elsewhere…
    • Gosman 12.2

      4 May 2012 at 8:20 pm

      I think a qualified IT professional with good banking experience can do a little better than just Paraguay. Hong Kong, Singapore, or Dubai would suit me just find thank you very much. Don’t worry I’ll ensure I provide employment opportunities to some immigrant from a developing country as a domestic servant. 😉

      So you really have no evidence that right wing people care about Mana, Greenies, and the leftist getting together then?
13. james 111 13

    4 May 2012 at 6:37 pm

    [Deleted. Boring trolling…RL]
    • felix 13.1

      4 May 2012 at 7:46 pm

      Well everyone else (stuff, the herald etc) seems to think it was 5000, but even at 5000 with an estimated population of 4,434,089 it pretty much proves that 4,429,089 kiwis are in favour.

      Is that what you’re saying?
14. Johnm 14

    4 May 2012 at 6:44 pm

    Saw Shonkey interviewed on One News. He said to paraphrase the Hikoi’s numbers were so small as not be even worthwhile to go out and meet them. he said he wasn’t going to change his mind. He came across as smug, self righteous and happily out of touch with the hoi polloi at Parliament. The guys so much on ideological auto pilot you have to see it to believe it! The Nats continue to dismantle the NZ Commonwealth and to enrich the already rich which basically is themselves.
15. Rodel 15

    5 May 2012 at 6:51 pm

    Loved the way John Key giggled and sneered at the hikoi marchers.
    Must have endeared himself to many watching him on TV.
    Oops! didn’t have time to check with PR Crosby Textor before responding and let my true personality shine through.
    Keep it up John (The other John).

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