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Open mike 01/02/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 1st, 2022 - 203 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

203 comments on “Open mike 01/02/2022 ”

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  1. Robert Guyton 1
    1 February 2022 at 7:01 am

  2. Patricia Bremner 2
    1 February 2022 at 7:19 am

    Hello Robert. What were you going to say?surprise Here’s a penny.

    • Robert Guyton 2.1
      1 February 2022 at 8:44 am

      Because you were the only one willing to pay, Patricia, I'd tried to post an image; the banana growing in my tunnel house, spectacularly large and out-of-zone, using the url from Facebook where I'd posted it yesterday, but failed to produce anything other than a question-box. I got distracted setting up a Zoom link to Uganda as I'm speaking to a group of farmers there about forest-gardening later today, and so didn't fix up the mis-post in time to deflect comment 🙂

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    1 February 2022 at 7:28 am

    New broom sweeps Farrar out the door…

    Luxon is on the hunt for a new internal polling partner and expects to have secured a contract in the near future.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/christopher-luxon-it-will-make-people-uncomfortable

    He's having a go at extending the boundaries on the Nat comfort zone:

    On Tuesday, businesswoman and respected Māori leader Traci Houpapa will provide insights into building relationships with whānau and iwi, and outline where she thinks the party has been going wrong.

    The party’s position on some Māori kaupapa has caused controversy in recent years, including claims the Government is being “separatist” in its pursuit of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Luxon told Newsroom the party's plans to get rid of the Māori Health Authority, which is set to be implemented this year, remain unchanged for now. “That’s the starting point, but that’s the question I want them to go away and think about very deeply," he said.

    “Traci will be giving her view on Māoridom and where the National Party sits in respect of some of that. I’m trying to make sure we hear all perspectives.’’

    It's all about pressure, eh? Doug Graham advancing Maoridom in the '90s got replaced by a pivot to China for 20 years. Now they've got Asians up to a significant minority of the populace they're feeling the need to mask their strategy with another stint at being pro-Maori. Gotta balance them 17% & 15% minorities!

    • Blade 3.1
      1 February 2022 at 7:48 am

      This is what I feared from Luxon – he MAY be prepared to go down the woke path.

      He obviously hasn't perceived the millstone around Labour's neck that Maori are.

      • Ad 3.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 8:16 am

        Refreshing to see the racist door opened so early in the morning.

        • Blade 3.1.1.1
          1 February 2022 at 8:30 am

          Yep, at least Luxon wants all sides of a debate heard.

          • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1.1
            1 February 2022 at 8:53 am

            Luxon called in an All Black coach to facilitate team-building at the conference.

            I believe he also had Sean Plunket in to coach PR and Communications.

            David Seymour on Effective Leadership.

            John Key, Bailing Out if the Going gets Tough.

            Cameron Slater, Muck Raking.

            • Blade 3.1.1.1.1.1
              1 February 2022 at 11:38 am

              My suggestion is you worry about something closer to home – potato's lying unharvested in the ground. Grain crop swaying in the breeze, while combine harvesters are parked up waiting for drivers who didn't make it through the merry-go-round called our border controls.

              ''John Key, Bailing Out if the Going gets Tough.''

              Yes, his astrologer told him Covid was on the way so he had better bale.

              Of course that was the best thing that ever happened to National as it turned out. Labour has done the donkey work with Covid. They are now old, jaded and hapless. National are fresh and ready to go. Hopefully having learnt from Labour what not to do, they can slowly get this nation back to a functional state.

              • Robert Guyton …
                1 February 2022 at 12:00 pm

                Key's feckless jumping-ship – " the best thing that ever happened to National"

                Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

                Well, yes. It served them the coup de grace I'd been wishing-for.

                I'm astonished that his followers have been able to so noiselessly re-imagine history and still adore their abuser!

                And now we have the Lindworm's brother in Luxxy! At least he's not covered in scales (it seems, so far…)

                • Robert Guyton …
                  1 February 2022 at 12:13 pm

                  Oh no!

                  Seen the scales!

                  "When Mr Luxon promised "a real shake-up" last year, it wasn't just a slip-of -the-tongue of a fresh-faced, inexperienced Leader. Two months later he has spelled it out:

                  "… we will be making some severe cuts.""

                  Frank Macskasy

                  • Blade …
                    1 February 2022 at 12:25 pm

                    Robert, stop rowing against the tide. Learn to look for tide changes. The tides 'are a changing,' No amount of bluster and having some supposed fun at my expense can save you or your stable mates. I tell you this as a fellow poster…and out of concern! smiley

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      1 February 2022 at 12:30 pm

                      I appreciate your concern, Blade, I really do.

                      Tides though, don't turn once every three years, they're in and out twice daily; political tides change at every poll, we are encouraged to believe, although in my experience, they don't!

                      There has been no change, only tide-change-chatter 🙂

                • Patricia Bremner …
                  1 February 2022 at 7:30 pm

                  Watch those gimlet eyes…..

            • Patricia Bremner 3.1.1.1.1.2
              1 February 2022 at 3:12 pm

              Now that was priceless Robert.smiley

              • Blade …
                1 February 2022 at 3:38 pm

                Robert reads the tea leaves like a pro. The trouble is he has a cup of coffee, hence his proclivity for not seeing things clearly or in perspective.

                What's priceless is the gift Key gave National by resigning.

                But hey, Roberts your guru. Who am I to argue. frown

            • Patricia Bremner 3.1.1.1.1.3
              1 February 2022 at 7:26 pm

              devilThat is bound to get bites.

    • Blazer 3.2
      1 February 2022 at 8:22 am

      Herald today says he is using…John Key's agency=Curia.-no link sorry ,no sub to NZH.

    • Treetop 3.3
      1 February 2022 at 1:21 pm

      I did hear a comment that Luxon wants to be more inclusive of people.

      What was Luxon like when it came to the cost of flights when a CEO of Air NZ?

  4. Blade 4
    1 February 2022 at 7:33 am

    Roy Morgan doing funny stuff. However, the trend is similar to other polls.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8889-nz-national-voting-intention-december-2021-202201310600

    • Dennis Frank 4.1
      1 February 2022 at 7:55 am

      National rising 5% points to 31.5%, to its highest since March 2020 (37%), while support for Act NZ was up 1% point to a new record high of 18.5%. Support for the Opposition Maori Party fell 2% points to 1% in December… Labour support was down 0.5% points to 35.5% and support for the Greens decreased by 2% points to 8.5%.

      No switch from ACT to National does seem peculiar – as does the MP drop size. Perhaps their method of polling is suspect? Or maybe there were fluctuations happening throughout the populace in December…

    • Bearded Git 4.2
      1 February 2022 at 8:19 am

      Nat/Act 50

      Lab/Gr 44

      That looks pretty good for the opposition if it holds as a trend. Labour at 35.5% is a worry.

      Not sure why Roy Morgan puts the MP with Nat/Act-unlikely.

      • Blade 4.2.1
        1 February 2022 at 8:24 am

        To be more concise – the trend of National gaining support.

        'Not sure why RM puts the MP with Nat/Act-unlikely.''

        Agree. Of course if Labour does not deliver Three Waters for Maori, anything is possible.

        • Bearded Git 4.2.1.1
          1 February 2022 at 8:32 am

          Three Waters is not about Maori. That is Nat/Act spin.

          • Blade 4.2.1.1.1
            1 February 2022 at 8:42 am

            Three Waters has everything to do with Maori.

            I have a fractious relationship with Internal Affairs. They have some of the most incompetent staff I have ever had dealings with.

            That said, I will swallow my pride, and quote them this time around.

            https://www.dia.govt.nz/three-waters-reform-programme-iwi-maori-interests

            • gsays 4.2.1.1.1.1
              1 February 2022 at 8:48 am

              I, for one, do hope Maori have a lot to do with three waters reform.

              It would be great for a more holistic, sustainable, generational, spiritual and guardianship attitude to prevail.

              As opposed to an ownership, commercial and dumping ground model with minimum standards and 'enforcement' done by district/regional councillors with farming interests.

              • Shanreagh …
                1 February 2022 at 11:25 am

                I totally agree with you Gsays.

              • Blade …
                1 February 2022 at 12:05 pm

                What you don't understand is Maori have a long term plan for complete control of New Zealand ( oops – Aotearoa. Forgive my ignorance).

                It started in the early 90s and has been an up and down process. But recently things have quickened.

                Take the name ''Aotearoa. ''That basically superseded New Zealand almost overnight. Woke TV is helping the process along nicely. Talk about being hoisted by your own petard.

                Maybe folk now understand why Nanaia Mahuta is so determined to get Three Waters underway. I would not like to be her if she fails.

                All movements start with education. I would invited anyone to visit a year one class for new entrants ( state schools). If you can tell the difference between that and a kohanga, you will be a better person than me.

                And so our state education system is producing useful idiots, while the average Maori in the street is also a useful idiot for his Pan Maori elite class who claim all things in their name. That's very important to understand.

                I would like to thank taxpayers on this site for my latest Iwi Covid package. Gloves, masks, kai, washing products and a food voucher worth a lot of money. Chur!

                • Robert Guyton …
                  1 February 2022 at 12:06 pm

                  "Forgive my ignorance"

                  Why?

                • solkta …
                  1 February 2022 at 2:05 pm

                  Which Maori has "a long term plan for complete control of New Zealand." I don't think i've met them.

                • gsays …
                  1 February 2022 at 2:40 pm

                  Excellent, I am gonna die an old man before 'whitey' undoes the harmful direction we are headed in.

                  I heard a bit of AC Grayling on the tranny in the weekend. He spoke of Grayling's law. Along the lines of 'Something will not be done if it costs those that can stop it happening'. Eg landlord politicians sorting the housing shortage.

                  It is way past time for the 'have-nots' to have more influence in our direction.

              • Patricia Bremner …
                1 February 2022 at 1:36 pm

                devilyesheart Got it sussed gsays.

              • Gypsy …
                1 February 2022 at 6:36 pm

                Approximately 1/3 of NZ's population is in Auckland. I'm not aware of too many councillors in this part of the world having farming interests.

                3Waters will not improve water quality one iota, and I suspect Labout know that. The plan is about assuaging Labour's Maori caucus.

                Going forward, I too hope Maori get a say in water management. On the basis of one person one vote, in equal measure to every non-Maori, and appointed to governance on merit alone.

    • swordfish 4.3
      1 February 2022 at 1:24 pm

      .

      Latest RM places the Oppo ahead of the Govt for first time in any Poll since Feb 2020.

      (conducted 22 Nov-19 Dec 2021 … so more than a month older than the latest One News Kantar):

      [Overall figures … together with some demographic crosstabs / breakdowns]:

    • swordfish 4.4
      1 February 2022 at 1:26 pm

      .

      Latest RM places the Oppo ahead of the Govt for first time in any Poll since Feb 2020.

      (conducted 22 Nov-19 Dec 2021 … so more than a month older than the latest One News Kantar):

      [Overall figures … together with some demographic crosstabs / breakdowns]:

  5. Sanctuary 5
    1 February 2022 at 7:41 am

    If you are tired of the MSM bourgeoisie civil war over MIQ, I suggest you follow Efeso Collins on twitter – it is a breath of fresh air.

  6. Dennis Frank 6
    1 February 2022 at 7:44 am

    Plenty of golfers go a lifetime without ever doing it, but British amateur golfer Neil Watts has achieved a dozen hole-in-ones in the last seven months!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/21/golf/neil-watts-hole-in-one-golf-spt-intl/index.html

    The odds against him must be astronomical. You'd need to know how many times he's hit the ball in that period, and then the ratio of the size of the hole to the area in front of his club (quadrisphere?) to do the maths.

    According to the National Hole-in-One Registry, the odds of a tour player hitting a hole-in-one are 3,000-to-1, while for average players they are 12,000-to-1.

    But that's just for one of them. Twelve in a sequence is probably unprecedented. Luck & fate lie outside science. He even got one of them while being filmed about his story by ITV!

    he had it filmed. He had the camera on the green at the time, so it showed the ball going in as well."

    Golf tradition dictates that if a player hits a hole-in-one, they must then buy a drink for everyone in the bar in the clubhouse after completing their round. Watts twice upheld this tradition, but as it was "very costly," he's had a rethink on his generosity. "When I did it the third time, I learned I had to put the key in the car and get out pretty quick after I got back."

    • alwyn 6.1
      1 February 2022 at 10:36 am

      He should join a New Zealand club.

      All the ones I have belonged to over the years included a little item in your sub which paid for the round of drinks. Unfortunately, in my 55 years of playing they never had to pay out once. I would have had at least 10 within 3 cm of the hole but none ever went in. Sob.

    • Bearded Git 6.2
      1 February 2022 at 2:07 pm

      It sounds suspicious to me Dennis. Have you checked his balls?smiley

      • Dennis Frank 6.2.1
        1 February 2022 at 2:40 pm

        You mean a homing device, with transmitter inserted into base of random selected hole prior to playing? Good theory but more likely when playing for money & he's amateur. Reputation-building strategy? That's plausible.

        The Conservative Party could recruit him as candidate, eh? With his luck he'd be PM surprisingly fast…

  7. Adrian Thornton 7
    1 February 2022 at 7:45 am

    Another insightful interview from Aron Mate' with guest Andrew Cockburn. Washington editor for Harper’s Magazine. His latest book is “The Spoils of War: Power, Profit and the American War Machine.”

    From Ukraine to Yemen, US arms industry reaps the spoils of war

    Interesting part with CIA operative Tony Poe, aka Anthony Poshepn, the person Kurtz from Apocalypse Now was (apparently) based on at about 45 minutes in….

  8. Ad 8
    1 February 2022 at 8:14 am

    OECD suggests keeping the NZSuper age the same but means testing it for a few years.

    NZ Super age must rise from 65 in wake of Covid debt, OECD warns | Stuff.co.nz

    "It described a policy change as “essential”, suggesting a compromise to take into account the circumstances of Māori and Pacific Islanders might be to means-test superannuation from the time people reached 65 until they reached a later age at which point the benefit would become universal."

    For those getting the $22-$34,000 per year, putting an income benchmark over it until you got to say 75 would be worth having a look at. Say you had an independent income of $50k a year above NZSuper.

    • Bearded Git 8.1
      1 February 2022 at 8:23 am

      It is fiendishly complicated to means test pensions, and even then people (rich pricks) lie or use devious methods (often sort of "legal") to hide assets.

      The Australian pension is means tested and the form you have to fill out is complicated and very long.

      • Ross 8.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 8:41 am

        It will not be a surprise if Super is tinkered with, but not while Jacinda is PM. Not only that, I expect to see tax increases and or cuts to social services. There will be a lot of tears before bedtime but the Government can’t spend billions of borrowed money without there being consequences.

        • millsy 8.1.1.1
          1 February 2022 at 9:06 am

          Need to start taxing rich pricks like you more, instead of plunging older people into hardship and closing hospitals. People like you really make me want to vomit.

          [last chance before a ban. You will either provide evidence for what you claim about PR here, or withdraw the statement, or take a ban. Next time I see you making such a claim about anyone without providing a quote and a link to back it up, I will ban you with not warning (you’ve had enough warnings already for this pattern of behaviour). Certainly not going to be doing any more chasing up.

          See also https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-26-01-2022/#comment-1855078 – weka]

          • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1.1
            1 February 2022 at 10:13 am

            If you want to tax rich people more why did you for Act that one time?

            • millsy 8.1.1.1.1.1
              1 February 2022 at 12:46 pm

              I have never voted for ACT in my 23 years of voting. I have voted for for Labour (2005, 08, 14, 17 and 20), The Alliance (99) and NZ First (02 and 11), but not ACT. And I never will vote for ACT. Looking at staying home next election, but we shall see.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                1 February 2022 at 1:05 pm

                Millsy theres no shame in it, it happens and peoples allegiances change over time

                But I am curious as to what made you change from a Roger Douglas acolyte?

            • Blade 8.1.1.1.1.2
              1 February 2022 at 3:47 pm

              Misread PRs comment. ACT taxing people more is a freaky thought.

          • Ross 8.1.1.1.2
            1 February 2022 at 2:07 pm

            People like you really make me want to vomit.

            Not sure if that’s directed at me. If so, the standards at TS are getting rather low. And it’s the first time I’ve been described as rich lol

            • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1.2.1
              1 February 2022 at 2:11 pm

              Millsy has a…tenuous grasp on reality but it goes something like this:

              Millsy hates rich pricks

              Millsy hates people with different opinions than his

              Rich pricks have different opinions to Millsy

              Therefore you must be a rich prick

            • millsy 8.1.1.1.2.2
              1 February 2022 at 3:32 pm

              You were the guy who called for swinging cuts to social spending in this country. Which will break a lot of people.

            • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1.3.1
              1 February 2022 at 2:53 pm

              I'm going to guess no…

              millsy14.2.2

              31 January 2022 at 5:24 pm

              The guy is a prude who wants abortion, homosexuality, sex outside of marriage, birth control, gender transitions criminalized, and wants a return to a time when women had their lives controlled by men. He has also suggested that men be allowed to beat their wives.

              The guy is an enemy of all that is good and decent in this world, and by extension, that makes you such a thing Puck. It is clearly obvious that you are a homophobic prude who wants abortion criminalized.

              As such, you are my enemy.

              • weka …
                1 February 2022 at 3:17 pm

                that needs quotation

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  1 February 2022 at 3:26 pm

                  Yeah sorry about that, I thought copy and pasting what Millsy said would be more efficient

                  Also I'm pretty sure Joe Rogan believes exactly nothing of what Millsy says (if shown proof I'll admit I was wrong)

                  'It is clearly obvious that you are a homophobic prude who wants abortion criminalized.'

                  Pretty sure I'm not (but I won't post my porn searches as proof), I mean my sister in law would be unimpressed by me being homophobic, the people for whom I once posed nude for would be surprised to know I'm a prude (I was a student and I needed the money)

                  As for criminalizing abortion, no I don't believe that at all and I don't believe I've ever said that on here

                  • millsy …
                    1 February 2022 at 3:33 pm

                    " the people for whom I once posed nude for would be surprised to know I'm a prude (I was a student and I needed the money)".

                    God, that would have broken the camera. I would imagine the people who took the pics would be washing their eyes out with bleach,

                    Any who, I retract all allegations against you, and Mr Rogan.

                    [two week ban for wasting my time. Next time reply to moderation directly. And expect bans to increase if you fail to follow the instructions given in the past two motes – weka]

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      1 February 2022 at 3:38 pm

                      Paintings, not pics.

                      So they were looking at my meat and two veg for at least an hour at a time.

                      ‘I retract all allegations against you’

                      -So why did you continually say what you said about me when you knew it was lies?

          • weka 8.1.1.1.4
            1 February 2022 at 3:14 pm

            mod note.

        • Nic the NZer 8.1.1.2
          1 February 2022 at 9:25 am

          You may well be expecting any and all those things Ross. Your concept of spending is predicated on the RBNZ running out of numbers in their computer system (where all these payments happen) of course. So you will be surprised to learn the govts spending capacity is exactly where it was before it paid for the wage subsidy.

      • alwyn 8.1.2
        1 February 2022 at 12:40 pm

        "is complicated and very long.".

        That is the understatement of the year. When my wife turned 65, and applied for New Zealand Super, the New Zealand authorities insisted that she apply for the Australian super because we had lived there for a number of years and could be eligible. We told them that we were not going to be eligible because our assets exceeded the cut-off figure. We demonstrated that but they insisted she apply. The form was, IIRC, 48 pages long. You were liable for prosecution if you made a mistake and got more of the pension than you were allowed.

        We filled it in, posted it off and in due course were declined it. Thank God the Government here has never made her do it again or made me go through the process. It was a nightmare and must be even more so if you actually qualify for anything. You are required, by law, to notify them of any change in your circumstances, such as the value of shares you own going up or down. You have to keep that up forever, at least in theory.

        The New Zealand system is vastly simpler and fairer. Don't even think about bringing in means testing here. You will find that people here will, as they approach 65, do what Australians do. Spend everything above the means test exemption amount and get rid of it. I'll illustrate this for a couple who own their home. You will get the full pension if you assets are less than $405k. You will get no pension if your assets are more than $891k. The pension is about $40k. You cannot get an income of $40k from half a million dollars worth of assets.

        The first thing you can do is carry out an expensive upgrade of your house or move to a bigger place. Your primary home is not included in the assets limit. Go for a long, expensive overseas trip. (Well that was in the old days). People did it, and it made very good sense. I know a number of them who had worked out that they were far worse out if they actually tried to save more than $400k toward retirement. The loss of the pension far outweighed the income they could make from their savings.

        • Bearded Git 8.1.2.1
          1 February 2022 at 2:03 pm

          I agree with most of that Alwyn including the fact that the NZ system is simpler…I am not so sure about fairer.

        • Patricia Bremner 8.1.2.2
          1 February 2022 at 7:42 pm

          yes Alwyn .My brother ended up getting $12 and the "perks" Glasses teeth bus….?

    • higherstandard 8.2
      1 February 2022 at 10:24 am

      Winston will be very pleased.

  9. Blazer 9
    1 February 2022 at 8:27 am

    Pregnant,jetsetting,journalist and champion of wimmin's rights puts the boot into the NZ govt ..again.

    'The fact of the matter is I’m a New Zealand citizen with a legal right to return in a unique and desperate situation. And I’ve applied under the emergency allocation system, I’ve done everything right, why is there such a problem?”

    '

    'Hipkins said Bellis’ emergency MIQ application was rejected because her flights were booked outside the 14-day requirement.

    “I understand officials have also since invited her to apply for another emergency category. I encourage her to take these offers seriously,” Hipkins said.'

    'New Zealand journalist Charlotte Bellis says the Government’s latest response to her situation is “incredibly disrespectful”,

    Charlotte Bellis: ‘Covid-19 Minister’s statement on MIQ incredibly disrespectful’ | Stuff.co.nz

    • Dennis Frank 9.1
      1 February 2022 at 8:54 am

      Human rights lawyer Frances Joychild QC said the Government was breaching Bellis’ human rights by not allowing her back home. Joychild previously represented pregnant woman Bergen Graham, who was stuck in El Salvador while pregnant and denied an MIQ spot six times.

      Joychild filed a judicial review claim on behalf of Graham, and shortly after her allocation was granted. She said the fact pregnant New Zealanders could not automatically return to their country was “disgraceful”, and the Government should change this rule, as Australia had.

      Hipkins defending the patriarchy merely destroys his reputation. You can understand why he's peeved that ScoMo has decided not to discriminate against pregnant women.

      Bellis told our media that her application was filed in response to Ardern's declaration of intent to open the border at the start of Feb. The anonymous bureaucrat was pissed off that she scheduled on the basis of Ardern's good faith, apparently, and rejected her accordingly.

      Having found spurious undisclosed reasons to discriminate successfully against 90% of the pregnant applicatants, the scumbags in the bureaucracy must be extremely irritated that their make it up as you go along arbitrary rules didn't manage to keep out the other 10%. Or perhaps they got through due to a bureaucrat with a conscience?

      • Blazer 9.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 8:58 am

        Interesting info about Scomo.

        Wouldn't be surprised in the least, if Australia is one of the two countries offering Bellis asylum.

        Would be a great political statement taking NZ's refugee policy and the 501 situation into consideration.

        Bellis who has shared so much information with reporters is not saying who the two are.

        • Dennis Frank 9.1.1.1
          1 February 2022 at 10:08 am

          I'm also puzzled why she hasn't explained her inability to reschedule in the 14-day window, and why she hasn't been liaising with our embassy. Consequently I can see why others are sceptical of her. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt.

          • Muttonbird 9.1.1.1.1
            1 February 2022 at 3:02 pm

            Can only assume she's waiting for her partner to finish his contract?

            She doesn't want to leave him behind because he might not get in, which is understandable, but their insistence on choosing a delayed travel date didn't meet the requirements of the category they applied for.

            I wonder also if there is such a sense of independence which is preventing her from taking government advice. You know, she’s a big star on the world stage and has lived in a pretty hostile environment for a long time. She has had to get there the hard way by following a ferociously unconventional and self-reliant pathway.

            • Dennis Frank 9.1.1.1.1.1
              1 February 2022 at 3:15 pm

              Good points there. If I were in her situation liaison with the NZ embassy would be a high priority so I'm puzzled that she's not into it.

              • Muttonbird …
                1 February 2022 at 3:28 pm

                She claimed it's not true, but then said 'even if it were true they wouldn't have been any help'.

                Not sure how she can be so certain of this, but it does fit with my theory that she knows best and is used to doing everything herself.

                I’m also concerned that she had been taking the advice of an unnamed opposition mp from before the letter was sent to the media.

      • vto 9.1.2
        1 February 2022 at 10:15 am

        hahahaha … "Having found spurious undisclosed reasons to discriminate successfully against 90% of the pregnant applicatants, the scumbags in the bureaucracy must…"

        having 'found' 'undisclosed' – its not possible for the two things to go together as you have structured it there nincomhorsepoop

        plus you still have no evidence

        do you

        none

        where is your evidence?

      • alwyn 9.1.3
        1 February 2022 at 11:08 pm

        What a wonderful name of the lawyer appearing for the pregnant women trying to get back into New Zealand.

        Frances Joychild. What could be more appropriate?

        It is rather like the person leading the campaign against reducing the speed limit on the bulk of the Napier Taupo road to 80 kph.

        Keri Goodspeed is fronting the protests. Another gorgeous aptronym.

    • Gabby 9.2
      1 February 2022 at 2:55 pm

      Do they not know who she IS?

  10. Adrian 10
    1 February 2022 at 9:13 am

    Dennis, how do you know they are “ spurious undisclosed reasons” it’s entirely possible that those in charge of allocation of limited MIQ spaces know a lot more than privacy allows them to divulge. Maybe the declined applicants have settled lives in another country which they intend to go back to after the birth but wish to have their baby in NZ for monetary or other reasons, I doubt it is free in Australia for NZ citizens. MIQ is under a huge stress and is not there to satisfy peoples whims no matter what the reason. It was never intended to be a flit in, flit out option.
    And Womens Cricket, DJs etc are not a good example, those sort of spaces were arranged a long time ago. A lot of the complaints and static seems to come from Kiwis who have abandoned NZ quite a while ago but wish to avail themselves of taxpayer funded services that they have not contributed to for ages.

    • Dennis Frank 10.1
      1 February 2022 at 10:05 am

      I get that you're trying to express a reasonable view, Adrian. I refrained from expressing an opinion on MIQ for months due to feeling agnostic & plenty of others arguing both sides. Quarantine was sensible as a strategy.

      I can now see that bureaucrats are not being sensible in managing the system. It's obvious to me (a male) that pregnant women ought to have been catered for by design. One rule for all was wrong-thinking – I suspect it was by male decision-makers (possibly including women who haven't been pregnant or lack empathy).

      They use privacy law to avoid accountability. The minister ought to instruct them to stop denying kiwis their citizens' rights. He has failed to do so, apparently. Labour's poll rating slide occurs due to such patterns of behaviour…

      • vto 10.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 10:16 am

        your sexism is a mile wide

        • aj 10.1.1.1
          1 February 2022 at 11:07 am

          I suspect there is much more known about this by the govt and officials but they cannot disclose it. Hipkins went as far as he could.

          She was on the news (?) last night and I am very cynical. It looked like she was performing to me.

          I haven't seen any other pregnant women come through MIQ, with or without difficulty, being paraded on television like she has been parading herself. Like 99% of MIQ returnees they have sucked up the system and done it all for the good of New Zealand and I say 'thank you'

          There will be thousands of difficult stories to be told out from this, and most won't be. Some have the ability to get on a platform and shout to the world

          However, all the best to her and her baby.

          And thank you to everyone working in MIQ

          • Drowsy M. Kram 10.1.1.1.1
            1 February 2022 at 12:34 pm

            And thank you to everyone working in MIQ yes

            • Shanreagh 10.1.1.1.1.1
              1 February 2022 at 2:50 pm

              I agree with giving a thank you to those working in MIQ.

              I also think it curious that the journo cannot bring her travel within the 14 day window and that she has not contacted the relevant consular officials. I also think it very likely that there is more to this than we are being told that is known by NZ officialss. Instead the journo seems to be getting very snooty because she originally applied in the incorrect category and was correctly declined. Officials apparently reached out to her to ask her to resubmit in the correct category and she has said, more or less 'you've got the info you do it."

              Hard to feel very sympathetic if these are the circumstances.

              • Gabby …
                1 February 2022 at 2:59 pm

                Is she a dual citizen?

                • Shanreagh …
                  1 February 2022 at 3:22 pm

                  Of where?

                  I just find it curious all round……could they not have gone to London from Belgium to get married there? Is there something special about having to have the marriage in a Catholic church in Belgium (and wait 6 months?) in these urgent circumstances.

                  I just have a sinking feeling that maybe an anti vaxx controversy may be waiting in the wings…..apparently NZers cannot be required to be vaccinated before returning but people from other countries resident in NZ can be.

                  Not in the slightest bit sorry for her in view of her attitude, thinking more and more that this has something of a deliberate political slant/stunt.

                  • Anne …
                    1 February 2022 at 3:47 pm

                    "… thinking more and more that this has something of a deliberate political slant/stunt."

                    Without a doubt.

                    The little flower is now threatening legal action cos her privacy has been breached. She doesn't want stuff to come out does she. So we're into the bully boy/girl phase now.

                    She claims Hipkins' very mild remarks yesterday were "untrue".
                    Officials don't lie about official actions they have taken. There will be logged proof they reached out to her and she ignored them.

                    The more I learn about this case, the louder my bullshit antennae hums.

                    • DukeEll …
                      1 February 2022 at 6:24 pm

                      Your bullshit antennae hums EVERY time you stick up for the labour government. Might be a pattern forming there.

                    • Shanreagh …
                      1 February 2022 at 7:48 pm

                      The more I learn about this case, the louder my bullshit antennae hums.

                      Without doubt.

                    • Shanreagh …
                      1 February 2022 at 8:01 pm

                      The more I learn about this case, the louder my bullshit antennae hums.

                      Maybe we could set up an orchestra of hummers

                      She now has a place based on where she is, ie danger etc but this does not really suit PP (precious petal)She states

                      Unfortunately, the approval was not granted on the basis of medical needs but on the risk factor of our location. We were denied based on medical needs because MIQ assessed we had no supporting information of a need for time-critical, scheduled treatment.

                      She has taken this offer up but I think she seems quite thick not to understand that just being pregnant does not fit the requirement. If she had a letter re pre eclampsia or gestational diabetes or any of a number of things that can happen. Small for dates, high blood pressure meaning travel in third trimester is not recommended etc etc

                      Pregnancy is not of itself an illness.

            • Patricia Bremner 10.1.1.1.1.2
              1 February 2022 at 3:09 pm

              smileyyesHere's to our marvelous MIQ workers one and all.

  11. observer 11
    1 February 2022 at 10:57 am

    In his Queenstown stand-up, Luxon has committed National to having candidates in the Maori electorates, next election (as previously floated by Collins, and confirmed now).

    Some time this year there's going to be a major internal row: for example, on the new Maori health authority (Collins said National would scrap it).

  12. Adrian 12
    1 February 2022 at 11:00 am

    Bullshit Dennis, they use privacy to protect the privacy of the applicants..look at the shit that Winston visited on The Nat’s for exactly that. There is a lot more to this story than we are being drip fed. As Hipkins rightly inferred, it’s not an emergency if you wish to schedule it 4 weeks in advance, you don’t do that for car crashes or heart attacks. If the rules which are there to manage occupancy were to be altered for every “ special “ person the whole thing would be unworkable.
    MIQ has protected the NZ right from the start when the Government asked the gathering of 40 or 50 experts back in January of 2020 about what they had to do to protect The 5 million of us from this contagation that nobody knew anything about, they said this, this, and this, and that is what we got. Compared to similar countries that didn’t do that our death toll would have been north of 12,000, how many of them would have likely been people you and I know? And by the way, it is a pretty horrible death.
    My main problem with Bellis is her audacity to laud the fucking Taliban as examplars of womens rights compared to Jacinda Ardern. It reeks of Stockholm Syndrome and is grossly insulting to JA.

    • Dennis Frank 12.1
      1 February 2022 at 3:11 pm

      You can tell that it's not bullshit when you factor in those occasions when privacy citation by bureaucrats has been accompanied by the citizens disadvantaged appealing to the anonymous bureaucrat to provide a valid reason for discrimination.

      I've noticed a sufficient pattern of evasion in news stories in the past couple of decades. The oppressed individual never gets satisfaction due to the bureaucrats using privacy law to stonewall the media. I've gotten into the habit of commenting on such behaviour when it shows up. That's due to feeling solidarity with the victims of the bureaucrats.

      Re her schedule, Hipkins has yet to respond to the reason Bellis gave: the PM's announcement of the (Feb) change of policy coming into effect. I agree with you re the general efficacy of the quarantine system up till now.

      Finally, I thought the comparison of what she's got from our govt as compared to the Taliban was accurate. I can't recall how she personalised the PM into that comparison. Could be a valid point from you on that. You'd think the PM, as a mother, would be empathic with pregnant kiwis being made to jump through 29.5 hoops and then rejected regardless. Some journo ought to ask her.

      • JO 12.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 3:53 pm

        Your crocodile weeping on behalf of Miss Bellis (what's the causa bellis here, some are starting to wonder…) is deeply moving. And deeply unnecessary, while the full force of the National Party's machine is on fast spin for her case.

        'Think it possible' as Oliver Cromwell suggested in superbly plain English to some Scottish bishops in the 1640s, 'in the bowels of Christ, that you may be mistaken.'

        • Dennis Frank 12.1.1.1
          1 February 2022 at 4:00 pm

          Are you morally corrupt too? Or just too stupid to comprehend empathy and civil rights? If you want to get traction on whether I'm mistaken or not you'd have to provide proof. Too lazy to search for it, right?

  13. Sabine 13
    1 February 2022 at 11:28 am

    Maybe these guys should ask for Asylum in OZ.

    An Auckland couple "destitute" in Queensland with pensions axed face the threat of repaying all the $16,000 superannuation they got since leaving New Zealand last year.

    Trapped Kiwi couple Keith and Michele Gorrett's super was stopped from January 8 because they have been out of New Zealand for more than the mandatory 26 weeks under the Ministry of Social Development's Work and Income regulations.

    "This just beggars belief. We are destitute and Australia doesn't provide any relief to non-residents. Please help us we have nowhere else to turn," retired mechanic Keith Gorrett, 67, said.

    and that too has been raised as an issue a few times over the last year.

    Next to complain are the ones that have been stuck overseas now for a while and who risk loosing their right to vote as they did not manage to get back into the country for the requirements

    something that was also raised last year, by the Greens (who hopefully are lefty enough to ask for such a thing without being vilified lol)

    https://www.greens.org.nz/kiwis_overseas_must_be_allowed_to_vote_next_year

    New Zealanders stranded overseas should be allowed to vote in next year’s local government elections and the 2023 general election, the Green Party said today.

    “The reality of this pandemic is lots of people cannot renew their voting rights when they are home as they normally would. The Government must extend the three-year timeframe so New Zealanders can still exercise their democratic rights,” Green Party electoral reform spokesperson Golriz Ghahraman said.

    I am sure that with the bad PR here and overseas something will change very quickly. Hopefully, because this current lottery system is not working for anyone and its just a mockery of the rights people have by law.

  14. Sabine 14
    1 February 2022 at 11:32 am

    there was a discussion yesterday about how long can you end up in isolation if someone you live with has covid and how the isolation works for contacts.

    Now this was on the bottom of a herald article:

    Household contacts of a case need to spend up to 10 days in isolation after a case has completed their 14 days, essentially requiring them to isolate for a total of 24 days.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-locations-of-interest-auckland-bus-routes-rotorua-cafe-new-locations/63UYBP3DN55OWX3S3BETTUH77I/

  15. arkie 15
    1 February 2022 at 11:36 am

    Three quarters of Kiwis want house prices to fall and almost half of us want them to fall substantially, according to the latest 1News Kantar Public Poll.

    …

    The Greens co-leader Marama Davidson told 1News that Labour Government Ministers were failing to take the action required – such as implementing a proper capital gains tax, a wealth tax and a guaranteed minimum income for people.

    "It is very very clear that the Labour Cabinet Ministers have it in their power to do the right thing and use those levers, pull on those levers so that people have a decent chance of having some decent lives," she said.

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/01/31/three-quarters-of-kiwis-want-house-prices-to-fall/

    So there will potentially be very little political fallout for some decisive action on this issue from the Ministers and Govt, in fact, it could be very helpful to ensuring a third term.

  16. Adrian Thornton 16
    1 February 2022 at 11:55 am

    "So there will potentially be very little political fallout for some decisive action on this issue from the Ministers and Govt, in fact, it could be very helpful to ensuring a third term."…yeah because we all implicitly know that Labour (and National) are such hollow, pointless husks of shit that they would never dare move or act on anything this important unless the polls told them it was safe to do so…it is plainly obvious that none of them would know a firmly held moral/ethical position if they tripped up on it, fell over and planted their faces right into the middle it.

  17. Chris 17
    1 February 2022 at 11:57 am

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/miq-lockout-kiwi-pensioners-stuck-in-australia-have-super-payments-ceased/CWOVMABOXPR34COB6MS4UU4K4Q/

    It's interesting that MSD is insisting on repayment of NZS from those stuck overseas for 30 weeks or more. There used to be provision in the Social Security Act for MSD to decide not to recover debt. It was a limited provision to allow MSD to avoid potential unfairness when all else was unavailable such as write-off because of MSD error. The National government repealed that ability around 2013, with the support of the Labour opposition.

    The prospect of a $16,000 debt is of course only one problem those in situations similar to the Gorrets are going to have to deal with, but at least there would've been some relief available if the ridiculous decision to remove it hadn't been made.

    • Blazer 17.1
      1 February 2022 at 1:19 pm

      More people that chose to leave NZ in the middle of a pandemic,knowing full well the possibility of events occuring that could impact their situation.

      Went over in July last year.Hard to sympathise with them.

      • Shanreagh 17.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 3:00 pm

        I agree with Blazer. We are often talking of looking at consequences of any decisions and doing a risk analysis. I think it would have been fairly well apparent that the Covid situation was fragile/fluid. Perhaps if/when at the end of Feb when there are possible changes to the borders/MIQ open Air NZ could do a couple of flights dedicated to bringing people like this back to NZ. smiley

        Perhaps go via Afghanistan and collect the journo on the way. wink

        • Chris 17.1.1.1
          2 February 2022 at 8:07 am

          Too bloody right. People need to take more personal responsibility. We need to teach it is schools, for crying out loud.

  18. Robert Guyton 18
    1 February 2022 at 12:04 pm

    Oops!

    Nandor's dropped a bomb!

    "It's hard to find the right words to express my disgust at Jacinda Ardern and this Government.

    Labour was elected with a huge mandate to do something serious about growing inequality, including the housing crisis. I know it takes a while to make change but I can't see any evidence that they are even considering any action that might have a serious impact. In fact she indicated on election night that she was ruling out anything that would impact the wealthy, I guess in the hope they could keep ruling the centre for ever.

    Is that the extent of Labour's aspirations now? To rule without upsetting the wealthy?

    I know Jacinda is dropping in the polls and media is blaming Covid. I disagree. I reckon people are beginning to think beyond covid and remembering why they voted for her in the first place. I'd say that despite the constant undermining by right wing commentators and a vocal but very small group of anti-vaxxers, the vast majority of NZers are very happy with our covid response. You just have to look at the death rates overseas to see we are doing very well.

    I think the reason why they aren't dropping more is because a National / Act government would be worse in every respect.

    What worries me is that instead of becoming MORE progressive to woo back the people that voted Labour to get change, they may misread what is happening and become even more conservative.

    What a waste of a parliamentary majority."

    https://www.facebook.com/nandor.tanczos

    • Sabine 18.1
      1 February 2022 at 12:40 pm

      A lot of different people have been saying the same thing, are you now saying that it is ok to critizise this government and its leader now that an Ex Green Party MP has said something?

      In that case, yei! finally. Took him just a few years of misery growing in abundance, but better late to the party then to never arrive, right?.

      National / Act may be worse, but seriously in regards to increasing house prices and promoting exponential growth in poverty via their politics/policies i think L/G are as good as N/A. But the next election is L/Gs too loose, and from where i am standing and from what i am hearing, losing is possible. Very much so.

      • Robert Guyton 18.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 1:47 pm

        Hey, Sabine! I didn't say, "…it is ok to critizise this government and its leader now that an Ex Green Party MP has said something…"

        I said, "Oops!

        Nandor's dropped a bomb!"

        I've never thought, "All is well",

        I've long thought, there are serious issues that must be addressed.

        Okay?

      • Drowsy M. Kram 18.1.2
        1 February 2022 at 3:03 pm

        If L/G lose the next election then all Kiwis will lose, some sooner than others. With temperatures and societal pressures increasing, and tempers fraying, tribal politics is here to stay, and so this iteration of civilisation's goose is nearly 'cooked'.

        In fifty years' time, with any luck most of today's NZ twentysomethings will be around to think back to their COVID days – when 'woke' concerns, and concerns about 'wokeness', exercised us so – and remember how wonderful everything was. I'd love to believe that the last 50 years won't be as good as it gets – doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t demand ‘more‘, but at the same time we need to think about what ‘more‘ means.

        Did We Just Blow Our Last, Best Chance to Tackle Climate Change?

        Chomsky: We Need Genuine International Cooperation to Tackle the Climate Crisis

        The crucial message is to panic now, but not to despair.

        Today, for large parts of the population, deeply held religious commitments conflict with the results of scientific inquiry. Therefore, science must be wrong, a cult of liberal intellectuals in urban dens of iniquity infected by people who are not “true Americans” (no need to spell out who they are). All of this has been inflamed by the very effective use of irrationality in the Trump era, including his skillful resort to constant fabrication, eroding the distinction between truth and falsehood. For a showman with deeply authoritarian instincts, and few principles beyond self-glorification and abject service to the welfare of the ultrarich, there’s no better slogan than: “Believe me, not your lying eyes.”

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 18.2
      1 February 2022 at 1:03 pm

      Nandor has nailed it I reckon.

      I know quite a few young, poorer people who voted for Labour (actually, they mostly voted for Jacinda Ardern). People who had never voted before, quite often.

      Many are complaining that Labour has done nothing to improve their lives – rents keep exploding, people on benefits remain in poverty and house ownership….not even a distant dream anymore.

  19. Ad 19
    1 February 2022 at 12:51 pm

    Keir Starmer does a good solid job in the House of Commons holding the Prime Minister to task re the Sue Grey report:

    Starmer's greatest speech? Tories stunned into lethal silence by extraordinary oratory – YouTube

  20. Puckish Rogue 20
    1 February 2022 at 1:37 pm

    Does anyone still think women (biological ones) don't get the extremely short end of the stick in society

    https://www.newsweek.com/woman-who-sexually-assaulted-child-when-she-was-teen-will-sent-juvenile-facility-1673804

    'A 26-year-old woman who, during her teen years, sexually assaulted a child has been sentenced to a juvenile facility and won't be required to register as a sex offender.'

    https://nypost.com/2022/01/17/la-da-ripped-after-child-molester-faces-little-or-no-time/

    'Jonathan Hatami, a Deputy District Attorney in the Complex Child Abuse Unit, said since Tubbs’ case remained in juvenile court, she will not have to register as a sex offender.'

    So as a 17 year old molests a child and as a 26 year old (allegedly only transitioning after being arrested) gets sent to a juvenile facility

    • vto 20.1
      1 February 2022 at 2:30 pm

      "Does anyone still think women (biological ones) don't get the extremely short end of the stick in society"

      That's a great question, typically raced past in the rush to underline some other issue.

      How would you assess that question? What sort of measures/stats/facts would be considered in deciding (if one had to) whether males or females get the short end of the stick? Compilation of such a list of stats would be fascinating in itself… bags not

      • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 2:35 pm

        'How would you assess that question?'

        – I don't think I'm capable

        'What sort of measures/stats/facts would be considered in deciding (if one had to) whether males or females get the short end of the stick?'

        – I'm looking at someone that molested a little girl being sent to a, probably, girls juvenile facility, as a 26 year old

        – Yeah he'll probably be in solitary for his entire time there but even so what sort of message does it send

        – There are numerous examples where a man claims to be female and is sent to a female prison and thats not right

        Compilation of such a list of stats would be fascinating in itself… bags not

        – Me neither, I wouldn't even know where to start

        • Peter 20.1.1.1
          1 February 2022 at 3:44 pm

          Don't know where to start? How about with what you said? "He'll probably be in solitary for his entire time there," and "what sort of message does it send?"

          Does it send the message that in such circumstances you're going to be in solitary the whole time?

          • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1.1.1
            1 February 2022 at 3:48 pm

            You hope he'll be in solitary but this is LA so I wouldn't be at all surprised if some lawyer argued that his clients civil rights meant he had to be put out into the general population

      • Sabine 20.1.2
        1 February 2022 at 3:26 pm

        i don't know, should this man be in a prison for juvenile female offenders? a teenaged sexual offender who is also female.

        • Puckish Rogue 20.1.2.1
          1 February 2022 at 3:50 pm

          Well he says hes a woman (which is supposed to have happened after he was arrested) therefore he must be a woman, right?

  21. Adrian 21
    1 February 2022 at 1:56 pm

    An Afghani female journalist now safely in NZ very disappointed in Charlotte Bellis.See her story in Stuff today. Sorry , can’t link, bad in and out internet.

    • Sabine 21.1
      1 February 2022 at 3:27 pm

      Well ain't that person lucky that she is safe in NZ, and Charlotte Bellis is stateless until she has been given the right to come home to her country.

      • Blazer 21.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 8:49 pm

        I was quite surprised that you said Bellis should stay and have her baby…in Afghanistan.sad

        • Blazer 21.1.1.1
          2 February 2022 at 9:43 am

          Mission accomplished-'She said her application was not granted on the medical needs of her pregnancy, but on the safety of her situation.'-Stuff.

  22. Muttonbird 22
    1 February 2022 at 2:50 pm

    Is Chris Bishop egging Charlotte Bellis and her team on? The reason I ask this is there has been a very peculiar escalation and Chris Bishop has form in covert operations such as this.

    There was his involvement in breaking out of MIQ our very own Thelma and Louise. He and his office was also instrumental in hacking the 2019 Budget. And the Wally Haumaha incident when he happened to come across all sorts of confidential leaked information.

    Bishop has long assumed the role of infiltrating the public service seeking sympathetic Trojan horses and I wonder if the same thing isn't happening in the Charlotte Bellis case.

    Today Charlotte Bellis is being encouraged to pursue legal action against Chris Hipkins because mentioned she was offered consular assistance in Afghanistan.

    I get the uneasy feeling this is no longer about the safety of her and her baby, rather an opportunistic hit job on the government. She's been told how to apply to get back to NZ but refuses to take he advice.

    Weird.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-pregnant-kiwi-journalist-charlotte-bellis-considering-legal-options-after-chris-hipkins-alleged-privacy-breach/W6WRTU4D3X5WV5Z43AFRZME6W4/

    Also in there at the end is an attempt by the Herald to equate Hipkins' description of the assistance offered to Bellis with Paula Benefit's doxxing of beneficiaries’ data in a leak to the very same newspaper.

    Disgraceful.

    • Jimmy 22.1
      1 February 2022 at 3:00 pm

      "He and his office was also instrumental in hacking the 2019 Budget."

      Was that the budget that was open for all and sundry to look at as they forgot to put any security on the site?

      • Muttonbird 22.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 3:09 pm

        Well, no. That is a slightly selective memory.

        The hack was not "open for all and sundry", it required many repeated inputs from the data workers in his office.

    • Gabby 22.2
      1 February 2022 at 3:10 pm

      Anybody asked Bellis whether it's true? Or would that be impertinent?

    • Dennis Frank 22.3
      1 February 2022 at 3:23 pm

      The significant bit is here:

      Hipkins also included details Bellis had not shared, including when the minister believed she had arrived in Afghanistan and that she had been offered consular assistance. Bellis says she never gave consent for this information to be shared, and that it is also untrue.

      I'm astonished that official advice to her is in question. I guess the Minister will have to prove his point – if it is true. I wonder if the advice was sent but not received?? That could explain her denial – if she's telling the truth. If the thing goes to court she would be challenged to prove that!

      • Muttonbird 22.3.1
        1 February 2022 at 3:44 pm

        I guess the Minister will have to prove his point – if it is true.

        Unfortunately this drags it out even further in public which we all seem to agree is a bad thing.

      • Anne 22.3.2
        1 February 2022 at 7:08 pm

        Who the hell does this woman think she is. The Queen. There is no way Hipkins would have revealed that information without official evidence to back it up and he is within his rights to do so. It was NOT private information about her.

        "I guess the Minister will have to prove his point – if it is true."

        Good grief. It is entirely up to her to prove it didn't happen. She can't and won't because it did happen. She's either a moron or is ignorant of parliamentary operational procedures.

        • Dennis Frank 22.3.2.1
          1 February 2022 at 7:17 pm

          The state's authority on privacy law disagrees with you Anne (re Hipkins). I saw her quoted earlier. Anyway, if you haven't caught up with the latest news, the deputy PM did a press conference several hours ago & announced that she had been offered a place in MIQ and I saw it reported on the tv news that she has accepted the offer.

          • Anne 22.3.2.1.1
            1 February 2022 at 7:35 pm

            Yes. I watched it. I don't give a tinkers cuss what the privacy commissioner might say. Hipkins did not divulge any personal information about her. He merely corrected her claims nothing was done to help her when clearly there was an attempt to help her which she chose to ignore.

            In my book he is entitled to do that. The law is a big ass sometimes and so are some of the people in it.

            • Dennis Frank 22.3.2.1.1.1
              1 February 2022 at 7:40 pm

              Oh, I see. Yeah I think there's some truth in that. However I believe the bureaucracy was being disingenuous too. I wonder if she will front with a full explanation when she gets back.

        • DukeEll 22.3.2.2
          2 February 2022 at 6:26 am

          Why are you so nasty about young women who criticise labour politicians or labour policies?

    • weka 22.4
      1 February 2022 at 3:23 pm

      Must admit I was surprised at the details in Hipkins' statements yesterday and wondered about privacy.

      I get the uneasy feeling this is no longer about the safety of her and her baby, rather an opportunistic hit job on the government. She's been told how to apply to get back to NZ but refuses to take he advice.

      In your link she says it's hard to get flights out of Kabul within the 2 week timeframe. This would have been my first guess about the issue.

      Both sides should stop playing this out in the MSM and just sort it out and release a statement.

      • Sabine 22.4.1
        1 February 2022 at 3:35 pm

        Agree this should now be taken out of hte public domain, but then, there is the article today of the retired couple stuck in OZ who is asked to refund their super they received whilst out of the country. Never mind that these guys can't return. So this will be in hte public domain until MIQ is declared defunct and the borders are open again to allow NZ Citizens to return.

        MIQ had a purpose initially but the issue is that they never re-assessed the needs and yeah, there are the Dj's, the Labour MP, the TV stars and all the others that got in while these people are stuck. And the government will have to answer for that. At some stage some of the fault for things that go wrong need to be admitted by the Government and its minion. This 'its not us' mentality is getting tiresome and quite unbelievable. And in the meantime, these people, Charlotte Bellis, the retired couple etc are still stuck overseas.

        And none of this brouhahah is a good vote getter for the left, nor does it make the government and the Labour Party look kind and in touch with people who are not rich, connected, or entertainment stars.

      • Muttonbird 22.4.2
        1 February 2022 at 3:40 pm

        Must admit I was surprised at the details in Hipkins' statements yesterday and wondered about privacy.

        Fair enough but it was her who made this a public story and I took Hipkins' comments to be a broad explanation of the events which took place from a government point of view.

        I can't see why the 'offer of assistance not taken' up is particularly confidential, rather it provides important clarification.

        Agree that a solution should be offered (done) and accepted (not done) so she can get home which is the whole point.

        • weka 22.4.2.1
          1 February 2022 at 3:45 pm

          Fair enough but it was her who made this a public story

          By that logic Bennett was right.

          Looks like she's overegging things now.

          • Muttonbird 22.4.2.1.1
            1 February 2022 at 6:29 pm

            Perhaps, but there's a world of difference between the two responses.

          • Blade 22.4.2.1.2
            1 February 2022 at 6:57 pm

            Yes, Bennett was right. The whole of New Zealand then heard the other side of the story – if I remember correctly those two beanies were earning more than many folk doing menial work.

            I support Hipkins. Whether right or wrong, everyone has the right to defend themselves if someone calls you out.

            Talking of defence, Robbo was tap dancing at the parliamentary press conference today. Where was the PM? She was in isolation. Looks like she's on another lucky roll.

            • weka 22.4.2.1.2.1
              1 February 2022 at 8:22 pm

              You may be ok with giving up your privacy, most people aren't and we still have privacy laws in NZ because not having them harms individuals and society.

              I mean, if we took your argument to its logical conclusion, anyone who doesn't like anyone else's behaviour or the way they are living could then legitimately disclose private information about that person.

              • Blade …
                1 February 2022 at 8:56 pm

                ''You may be ok with giving up your privacy, ''

                No, I like my privacy. In fact I will soon have someone in court on prvacy issues.

                ''I mean, if we took your argument to its logical conclusion, anyone who doesn't like anyone else's behaviour or the way they are living could then legitimately disclose private information about that person.''

                That's too simplistic. We are talking of an individual accusing the government. The government has a right to respond to points made …and correct them with all information available The information released was very general.

                • weka …
                  1 February 2022 at 9:01 pm

                  Hipkins could have responded without using private details. There's a principle at stake here.

                  And Bennett actually broke privacy law. You can't have it both ways. Either we have privacy that is upheld or we don't.

      • Anne 22.4.3
        1 February 2022 at 7:20 pm

        Only one side has been playing this out in the public arena aided and abetted by the Nats and ACT. The Govt. was forced to make one press release by the Covid minister in response to her claims and on behalf of the officials who had served her case.

        They keep getting asked questions by the insatiable media but Robertson deftly batted them away at the weekly Press conference today. They got nothing out of him except that she's been offered an MIQ position which she doesn't deserve because of the tactics she used. But if it shuts her up and we don't hear from her again it will be worth it.angry

        • Herodotus 22.4.3.1
          1 February 2022 at 9:35 pm

          Ok Annie (Oakely) taking pot shots again. "offered an MIQ position which she doesn't DESERVE because of the tactics she used. But if it shuts her up and we don't hear from her again it will be worth it.angry" So then how should she have managed this ??? A kiwi wanting to come home and give birth in her home country. IMO repugnant comment from you again !!!

          Where is this Labour be nice, or are we only to be selectively "Nice" ??

        • Patricia 2 22.4.3.2
          2 February 2022 at 3:45 am

          Anne – I have a feeling we will never hear the end of this saga. There'll be a report on 14 days of hell in MIQ. The state of medical care in NZ for people who are pregnant will be next ; there are so many situations ahead that could go awry and no doubt we'll hear about each and every one of them.

  23. lprent 23
    1 February 2022 at 6:17 pm

    Well that was irritating. An outage because LetsEncrypt wouldn't update the site SSL cert.

    I flicked it over to cloudflare. Let me know if anything weird shows up.

    The only good thing was that it stopped towards the end of my working day.

    • Poission 23.1
      1 February 2022 at 6:20 pm

      Warning on FF ,seems ok now

      • lprent 23.1.1
        1 February 2022 at 7:00 pm

        Not having a SSL cert will prevent some browsers to not allow access at all on a out of date cert. Some with switch to un-encrypted HTTP. Some will just provide cached pages only.

        I'll look at LetsEncrypt on the weekend.

        For the moment the SSL cert is being provided by CloudFlare as a backstop. I have Cloudflare as a backup because it is good for this and for handling certain load problems. But there are usually a few people who have issues with it on their particular systems – mostly due to the severity of the caching.

    • Muttonbird 23.2
      1 February 2022 at 6:58 pm

      Something weird has shown up. My comments are not appearing!

    • Anne 23.3
      1 February 2022 at 7:23 pm

      No edit function since the outage.

    • weka 23.4
      1 February 2022 at 8:38 pm

      Just got a timed out when trying to look at a post preview.

      Error 522

      Ray ID: 6d69829559c95551 • 2022-02-01 07:36:41 UTC

      Connection timed out

      You

      Browser

      WorkingSydney

      Cloudflare

      Workingthestandard.org.nz

      Host

      Error

      What happened?

      The initial connection between Cloudflare's network and the origin web server timed out. As a result, the web page can not be displayed.

      What can I do?

      If you're a visitor of this website:

      Please try again in a few minutes.

      If you're the owner of this website:

      Contact your hosting provider letting them know your web server is not completing requests. An Error 522 means that the request was able to connect to your web server, but that the request didn't finish. The most likely cause is that something on your server is hogging resources. Additional troubleshooting information here.

      • lprent 23.4.1
        1 February 2022 at 11:16 pm

        I'll look at kicking up the cloudflare timeout. The post previews often take some time to process and appear.

        Unfortunately I don’t really have that much spare time between now and the next weekend (fortunately a long one) for technical work like fiddling with cert installs and DNS validations outside of work.

        I already spent most of the last (long) weekend catching up on a knotty low level issue and reading the Unit Titles Act cover to cover. Either always tends to drop off my intellectual resilience for the following week.

    • weka 23.5
      1 February 2022 at 8:59 pm

      looks like a bunch of comments made during the outage ended up in Trash.

    • lprent 23.6
      1 February 2022 at 11:14 pm

      Had one two reports of not being able to save comments. Don't have enough information to reproduce it.

      Tested in the

      • mobile app on chrome on android,
      • desktop – chrome and firefox on Linux.
      • desktop – edge, chrome, and firefox on windows

      It also looks like some comments may have been going direct to trash during the outage today. Just having a look at those now.

      • lprent 23.6.1
        2 February 2022 at 11:25 am

        Ok – fixed everything I know of this morning.

        Tanks the booster jab. I wasn't up to work working today (tired, stiff, and sore), so I had time to fix this.