Open mike 01/10/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 1st, 2015 - 162 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

162 comments on “Open mike 01/10/2015”

  1. The Chairman 1

    Farmer John Cochrane said the white knight needed to make his move soon.

    “We can’t disclose who it is but whoever it is needs to go public by the end of the week,” Cochrane said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/72560581/new-suitor-claimed-to-be-in-wings-for-silver-ferns-farms

    • millsy 1.1

      Lot of unpatriotic comments below that article.

      I cannot help but be disgusted at people who plump for the Chinese takeover of this country. IMO they are no better than those in Europe who collaborated with the Nazi occupiers.

      • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1

        IMO you don’t know what you’re talking about and are resorting to hyperbole

        You seem to have thing about china taking over NZ, its starting to sound a little racist

        • millsy 1.1.1.1

          Says someone who would wave their little Chinese flag when the PLA marches up Queen St, along with O’Sullivan, Farrar, Slater, Williams, Hosking and co.

          Deng Xiao-peng (the man who I regard as the most influential figure over the past 40 years), said that ‘to get rich is glorious’. Meaning that the Chinese put the making of money over all else. Why else do you think there are no enviromental or labour laws in China?

          Soon they will get rid of them here.

        • JanM 1.1.1.2

          For heaven’s sake China is a country – we feel the same way about Australia.

      • The Chairman 1.1.2

        The argument seems to be the Chinese can help provide a distribution network, thus generate further growth. Overlooking that a 50% share of the returns will then go to the Chinese, reducing local return from any new growth.

        Moreover, ignoring the potential the NZ company has to generate its own growth and secure a contract with a major Chinese distributor. Ensuring the benefits of new growth remains in local hands. Not to mention maintaining full company control.

      • Bill 1.1.3

        Know how the ‘money guys’ of this country took the monies we generated and ‘pissed it up the wall’ in a manner of speaking…took it and pumped it into various overseas ‘casino’ type investments, or funneled all the profit streams to their banking mates overseas? And know how most everyone still gets up in the morning and bends over or kneels down for those same guys before they rush out to ‘make a buck’?

        I think your ire is seriously misplaced.

        If money is needed because NZ set itself up as a fucking toilet cistern that flushed everything away to elsewhere, then where the fuck do you think the money is going to come from if not from elsewhere?

        If you’re going to be angry (and I see no reason why you shouldn’t be) then at least be angry at the right people…the ones who have gouged and who continue to gouge this country for all it’s worth.

        • The Chairman 1.1.3.1

          Why can’t she be aggrieved by the actions of both? In some cases, they’re one and the same.

      • Tracey 1.1.4

        ” IMO they are no better than those in Europe who collaborated with the Nazi occupiers.”

        This Chinese Company or the Goverment of China remind you of Nazi Germany?

    • Pasupial 1.2

      I get the feeling that the company has been purposely run into the red to justify the merger with Shanghai Maling. There seems to be quite a disconnection between the board in their nice new corporate offices (in the custom refurbished chief main post office) and the farmer cooperative shareholders. The pressure is definitely now on to get the early votes before any counteroffer can emerge:

      Silver Fern Farms could be facing insolvency if shareholders do not approve a 50:50 joint venture with Chinese company Shanghai Maling.

      Voting has opened on the proposal before a meeting of shareholders at Dunedin’s Forsyth Barr Stadium on October 16…

      The company had carried excessive debt for many years, creating a financial constraint on the operations of the business.

      While debt had been reduced significantly over the last two years and was expected to be about $140million to $160million at the end of September, that was considered to be still too high.

      Due to the highly seasonal nature of the business, there was a very significant investment in net working capital through the season. Depending on the season, that would normally result in peak debt levels up to $200million higher than opening debt.

      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/357776/chinese-deal-vital-sff-says

      So really; the base debt is less than the seasonal variation of the business. This all feels like a giant scam.

      • Ad 1.2.1

        New Zealand farmers have had plenty of chances to get local coalitions together.
        They are just freaking lucky Shanghai Mailing isn’t asking for a whole bunch more than 50% control, given the dump trucks of cash they are about to roll in to Silver Fern’s Dunedin headquarters.

        It’s a nice little schadenfreude for all the 19th century Chinese gold miners in Otago who were treated so badly.

        • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1.1

          To be completely honest when you look at all the options that could possibly come to be, China taking over NZ isn’t so bad

          • Ad 1.2.1.1.1

            I get a little melancholic over foreign ownership, particularly when there is Ngai Tahu and plenty of old Otago money that could have had a crack at it.

            Coulda-woulda-shoulda.

            After the melancholy, I remember the political track record of cattle farmers in New Zealand, and it kind of passes.

        • The Chairman 1.2.1.2

          There has been a number of local offers, but its seems the banks don’t support them.

          The Chinese will also be expecting a share of the company’s assets and a return on their money to go with their 50% control.

          I think the Chinese have pushed it to limit. Asking for more now would have blown it for them. They’ll be playing the long game.

        • Pasupial 1.2.1.3

          Ad

          There have been attempts, but getting the board to go along with it is the problem (from The Chairman’s link above):

          Previous reports of an offer by agribusinessman John Rodwell said he had put together a group of New Zealand interests that had offered to put up $40 million for a key stake in Silver Fern Farms (SFF).

          SFF chairman Rob Hewett said at the time the Shanghai Maling offer was made public that the Rodwell offer was a significant amount of money but “wasn’t as good [as Shanghai Maling] and didn’t have banking support at this stage”.

          Fellow meat processor and co-operative Alliance Group said it had also submitted a bid which was rejected.

          Cochrane said shareholders and SFF itself should call the banking consortium’s bluff over calling in its contracts…

          “SFF is not only bankable but provides a genuinely attractive investment proposition. “Why else are foreign investors seeking control?” Cochrane asked.

          SFF’s year end debt of $140m represented only 20 per cent of total assets as opposed to 46 per cent two years previous when the debt was over $300m.

          • Ad 1.2.1.3.1

            … And behind that the members of the Board, whom the Meat Industry Excellence group have tried valiantly to stack, and the vacillating voting supplier farmers.

            As for the Alliance proposal, why the hell the government could not see how close this was to the dairy industry in the early 2000’s prior to the legislated amalgamation into Fonterra. Same for Zespri. Form locally owned entities in the broader interests of New Zealand. Government inaction here is so ridiculous.

      • The Chairman 1.2.2

        @ Pasupial

        Apparently, the Chinese offer has banking support.

        Wherever there is potential to gain, there is always potential for underhanded behaviour.

        However, policing of this in NZ seems rather relaxed.

  2. savenz 2

    If you are wondering why the general public is so uninformed and consumer focused here is a sample of Granddaddy Herald news – (note the online main article about the mega mall is even recycled from a couple of weeks ago! I guess with the Herald redundancies they just have 1 well connected Nat supporting Journo to recycle advertisements and rebundle them into advertorials)
    Mega mall opens today
    Naholo has teammates scrambling
    Big Wednesday: 209 lucky winners
    Apology over parking tickets
    Singer begs NZ ‘Beliebers’ for privacy

    Foreign policy
    Foreign Minister Murray McCully blasts Security Council impotence

    Nothing about Dotcom case or TPPA legal challenge that I can see.

    • Glenn 2.1

      You’re right. The Heralds getting worse. Todays paper is also blatantly pushing an Albany retirement village in an advertorial amongst the news that celebrates International day of older persons.
      “It’s like living in Club Med or on a cruise ship every day,” coos the paper.

      I get enough of that in the free midweek rag that I wrap the rubbish in without getting it in the Herald.

    • Ad 2.2

      Much easier if you think of the NZHerald as a great big full colour advertising spreadsheet, salted with a little gossip and opinion.

      Open the Herald if you want to know what to buy. Which show to go to.
      That’s it.

    • Rosemary McDonald 2.3

      But there is this….

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/maori/news/article.cfm?c_id=252&objectid=11521631

      which IMHO, is well worth a read.

      • Grindlebottom 2.3.1

        Yeah, Interesting. Pity Granny didn’t allow comments. I bet plenty would’ve been rippers.

        • Rosemary McDonald 2.3.1.1

          Yes, but it would have been dominated by the “Duff’s a Bounty Bar” brigade on one side and the reactionary rednecks on the other.

          And the message he tries to get across…about cultures adapting and changing, and the devolution of traditional power structures is lost.

          He is saying in this piece pretty much verbatim what I have been told in conversations with (mostly) rural Maori.

          Sad.

  3. Reddelusion 3

    Good to see Helen Clark backing the TPP from NY this morning on breakfast and while meeting with John Key

    • mickysavage 3.1

      No she didn’t. She said “So of course New Zealand has to be in on the action with a [TPPA] and go for the very best deal it can.”

      She was talking in generic terms about trade deals.

      Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/world/john-key-helen-clark-discuss-tppa-2015100107#ixzz3nG5HO7MT

      • Reddelusion 3.1.1

        Semantics Micky, she backs it and realises been out of it is no option

        • mickysavage 3.1.1.1

          Damn semantics if it was not for the actual meaning of words someone could say something and some one else say they said something completely different.

        • The Chairman 3.1.1.2

          “And realises been out of it is no option”

          Without even knowing what we’re signing up too?

          Only an idiot would come to that conclusion.

          • Reddelusion 3.1.1.2.1

            I am sure she and her good friend John have had a chat. Likewise she is no fool and understands how trade deal negotiations work, the benefits there of, as does labour. She only has the benefit of not having to play silly politics to keep the standards readers happy in her statements

      • Puckish Rogue 3.1.2

        So yes to a TPPA but no to this particular TPPA, glad thats cleared up

        • The Chairman 3.1.2.1

          It’s clear she is saying we need to be in on the negotiations, in an attempt to secure a good deal.

          It doesn’t automatically mean we will secure a good deal, thus it’s not an endorsement to sign it.

          • Puckish Rogue 3.1.2.1.1

            I agree, anything less would be a disgrace.

            I was replying to mickysavages dancing on the head of a pin arguement

      • AmaKiwi 3.1.3

        One picture tells you what Helen and Key said in private:

        http://www.3news.co.nz/world/john-key-helen-clark-discuss-tppa-2015100107

        Read their body language. They agreed on NOTHING.

        • Puckish Rogue 3.1.3.1

          Meh, just two alphas jockeying for top position

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3.1.3.1.1

            It doesn’t automatically mean we will secure a good deal, thus it’s not an endorsement to sign it.

            Who has any position other than this?

            • maui 3.1.3.1.1.1

              Probably all those people who have vigorously defended this agreement for many months and attacked anyone against it. If they truly looked at deals based on face value they could have stayed quiet until the deal is on the table.

              • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                If they truly looked at deals based on face value they could have stayed quiet until the deal is on the table.

                There’s only one side being noisy.

      • Bob 3.1.4

        “No she didn’t. She said “So of course New Zealand has to be in on the action with a [TPPA] and go for the very best deal it can.””

        Nice selective quoting, What she actually said was:
        “What always haunts one as the New Zealand Prime Minister is ‘will there be a series of trade blocks you’re not part of?’. Because that’s unthinkable for New Zealand, an exporter and small trading nation. So of course New Zealand has to be in on the action with the TPP and go for the very best deal it can.”

    • The Chairman 3.2

      Not really, but its to be expected.

    • Bill 3.3

      I’d hardly expect Helen Clark, given her current position in the UN, to speak out against the NZ Government’s position on the TPPA.

      Also, given that she was a proponent of free trade (eg – China, and trying to open discussions with the USA ) and seeing as how she has never, not to my knowledge, changed her position on free trade, then I’d guess she might do no more than harbour private concerns about the government’s ‘game plan’.

      But sure, carry on with the tribal spear throwing…

    • Tracey 3.4

      Good to see Key supporters admiring Clark’s opinion

      • Puckish Rogue 3.4.1

        Theres quite a lot to admire about Ms Clark which is why John Key has modelled quite a bit of his leadership on her

        You’d think successive Labour leaders would try to emulate more of her style

        • Grindlebottom 3.4.1.1

          She had a knack with TV reporters of thinking quickly while speaking slowly and very succinctly. I think she scared them more than Key does. Like Muldoon. And it worked. Key charms them. And it works. Labour’s leaders struggle with who to emulate I suspect.

  4. alwyn 4

    I hope that the Green MPs, and their supporters, are feeling embarrassed when they read this story in the Dom/Post this morning.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/72564945/super-fund-and-infratil-set-to-make-400pc-return-on-z-energy-stake
    If it is accurate we must be truly grateful that they, and their fellow idiots in the Labour Party had no influence on the New Superannuation funds policies in the last few years. Adopting the “no investment in fossil fuels” strategy as advocated by Russel Norman would have cost the fund about $3 million per day if this story is correct.
    I trust all those who supported the Green view will now apologise.

    • JanM 4.1

      30 pieces of silver, eh?

    • JanM 4.2

      30 pieces of silver, eh?

    • Ad 4.3

      NZSuper Fund has found plenty of other ways to make landfills full of cash other than fossil fuels for quite some time. If the Greens were in power and retooled the NZSuper governing legislation for that criteria, the world would not end.

    • Macro 4.4

      How much will it cost the planet – and your grandchildren?
      But you don’t give a shit about that so I don’t expect you have ever thought about it – just so long as no 1 is ok!

      • Draco T Bastard 4.4.1

        +1

        Exactly. Making money out of something that kills you isn’t a winning position.

    • weka 4.5

      “I trust all those who supported the Green view will now apologise.”

      Why? Their view is that fossil fuel divestment is critical to minimise AGW damage and all that that entails, and that this outweighs making shitloads of money.

      I trust now you will apologise to everyone’s grandchildren.

  5. Nessalt 5

    Where is the coverage of the Kim Dotcom extradition case? now we are in court i notice all his cheerleaders here and on the daily blog are awfully silent. Is it because the fat german isn’t what he made himself out to be and everyone rushed to friend him as he was against John Key?

    this is the real moment of truth.

    • Reddelusion 5.1

      My enemies enemy is my friend, nothing else matters

      The left cuddling up to this fruadster is becoming a little uncomfortable

      • mickysavage 5.1.1

        It is in court so we need to be careful what we comment on. And remind me where TS authors cuddled up to Dotcom.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2

        I’ve always believed that the enemy of my enemey might also be my enemy as well, something the left in NZ doesn’t quite understand

        • AmaKiwi 5.1.2.1

          Which enemy?

          1. John Key
          2. Judith Collins
          3. US style police tactics and spying
          4. the empire that will impose its laws on anyone, anywhere

          • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2.1.1

            The left feting and promoting KDC and making the pilgrimage to Mecca (sorry) the pilgrimage to Coatsville told enough of the voters all they needed to know and they voted accordingly

            • mickysavage 5.1.2.1.1.1

              Citation please. A visit by Russel Norman for a chat does not make a pilgrimage by the left.

              • weka

                esp given Norman went there to ask KDC to not form the IP because of the damage it would do.

                • Tracey

                  Really? I didn’t know that Norman has said why he went? Mind you I would have been looking for it in MSM

                  • weka

                    Just double checked. He talked to KDC about the IT sector, and about not forming the IP incase it meant National got back in.

                    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11200563

                    • alwyn

                      Or to put it a little more accurately you could start by saying that
                      “Russel Norman claims that he” etc, etc.
                      Still, I suppose we should simply accept that Russel is a politician and like all of them he would say anything he thought he could get away with.

                      Rather like Corbyn in a way. There is a story in the Dom/Post today. It is on page B1 but I can’t find it on-line. Apparently in his speech to the Party Conference big sections were lifted from a speech originally written by a free-lancer in the 1980’s and which has been offered to every Labour leader since. They all declined to use it.
                      Corbyn’s spokesman originally denied the source of the material and claimed similarities were “pure coincidence” Finally he had to admit that his team had spoken to the original author.
                      Why do left leaders feel the need to lie as a first option about things that really don’t matter?

                    • weka

                      Alwyn, I know that you work for Crosby Textor* and they don’t have to pay you particularly well because you are an ideological willing worker. So of course you are going to tell lies about politics and do so in a creepy smeary way rather than just coming out with it and saying you hate the GP.

                      *see how that works? Smear, smear.

                      I don’t believe all politicians lie, so am happy to judge each on their behaviour. Norman has no reason to lie in that situation and his account is entirely plausible so I’m happy enough to go with his version.

                    • HI alwyn,

                      Background concerning Corbyn’s use of Richard Heller’s words:

                      I discovered for the first time that Corbyn had used the passage almost exactly in the form I offered it to him (and others). I also discovered that some British media were suggesting that his use was unauthorised. This is quite untrue. I am delighted that the passage has been used, and am sorry that a spurious story might detract from its message. I have many disagreements with Corbyn, but I now have to admire his rhetorical judgment. On the issues where I agree with him, particularly on fundamental values of his party and mine, he is welcome to call on me for other uplifting and memorable tropes.

                    • alwyn

                      @Puddleglum.

                      I wasn’t aware that a paper, or papers was claiming that Corbyn didn’t have permission to use the material. That isn’t really relevant though is it?
                      Corbyn’s problem is that his spokesman’s first reaction seems to have been to deny that it was written by someone else and wasn’t directly written by Corbyn. He claimed that the same words being used was “pure coincidence”. Then he was forced to back-down and admit that they had spoken to the original author and that the words did come from Heller. If the spokesman didn’t know, which is possible but seems unlikely, he could simply have said something like “I don’t know where the original material came from. I’ll find out.” Then he could say later that it came unsolicited from Heller and that Corbyn liked it, or something like that.
                      It is the original denial that becomes the story. If they had started by saying that the ideas had come from Heller in the first place there would have been no story would there? It was lying about it and then having to admit to the lie that caused all the problem.

                    • alwyn,

                      I was providing background for those who might not have known what you were talking about.

                      As I understand it, the article reprinted in The Press/Dom Post was from the Daily Telegraph, wasn’t it? Something about another faux pas in a beleaguered leadership?

                      Why are you so quick to call it a ‘lie’? You yourself provide a quite believable account of how it could have been a minor error on the part of a spokesman.

                      Haven’t ‘lefties’ here been accused of wrongly calling Key himself (much less one of his spokespeople) a liar despite having much stronger grounds for the claim than is present here?

              • Puckish Rogue

                http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11201739

                Labour MP Clare Curran, who hails from the Deep South, was at Dotcom’s Coatesville estate “at least twice, and once with a large suitcase”, a source said. She caught a taxi once and was chauffeured another time. But why the baggage?

                Curran confirmed she did go to the mansion twice, but can’t recall travelling heavy.

                “I was probably on my way to or from home,” she told The Diary.

                Theres probably more that managed to fly under the radar

            • Tracey 5.1.2.1.1.2

              Pretty sure the Right have had more people at (and surrounding) Coatseville than the Left.

              Everything Key says is not true PR, and his laughing jibes about all of the left and KDC are patently false. Even on this site the left and the left have attacked each other over KDC damage tot he election.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Yes I wasn’t clear enough, there are some on the left with integrity and principles and they did say, prior to the election, that KDC wasn’t going to help the left and good on them for saying that (you know who you are) but sadly they’re in the minority

        • Tracey 5.1.2.2

          I await the day when you realise your friend (Key) is really your enemy).

          • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2.2.1

            All politicians are my enemy, its merely a matter of who is going to have the least amount of impact on my life

        • Draco T Bastard 5.1.2.3

          We understand it just fine. It’s National and their supporters who keep having us cuddling up to those who are bad for NZ.

    • Chooky 5.2

      @ Nessalt and Reddelusion… Does this help?…obviously you can’t read..or haven’t read and got up to date on Dotcom trial:

      ‘The Government can’t find the original notices in the Kim Dotcom case? Is this a joke?’

      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/09/30/the-government-cant-find-the-original-notices-in-the-kim-dotcom-case-is-this-a-joke/

      Also getting up to date with Nicky Hager :

      ‘Police plotted to arrest and spy on Nicky Hager – the most interesting parts of 1 year on from Dirty Politics ‘

      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/09/30/police-plotted-to-arrest-and-spy-on-nicky-hager-the-most-interesting-parts-of-1-year-on-from-dirty-politics/

      • Pasupial 5.2.1

        Plus this yesterday on NRT, and reposted on this very site:

        Kim Dotcom’s extradition hearing is currently underway, and it appears to have hit a hurdle: the government can’t find key documentation… A key question in extradition hearings is whether the supporting documents have been produced to the court. The fact that they can’t do that (and apparently failed to follow due process in briefing the Minister, creating instant grounds for judicial review) makes them look like a bunch of muppets.

        NRT: Muppets

      • Puckish Rogue 5.2.2

        I wouldn’t worry about it too much Chooky, KDC will eventually get his day in court (american court that is) where he’ll be finally be able to prove the veracity of his claims

        + 100

        • Macro 5.2.2.1

          I wouldn’t be so sure – and neither were Sony.

        • Draco T Bastard 5.2.2.2

          Everything looking like the US and NZ governments getting egg all over their face with all charges against KDC being dropped.

          • keepLeft 5.2.2.2.1

            They have “found” the paper work. Yeah right. More lies. Let have them put them online so we can verify them!

            #savekim

    • Tracey 5.3

      You mean apart from comment sin Open Mike and other places? Oh and the entire post about the stuff up the MOJ has made of the warrant and other paperwork?

      IF the MSM is quiet, you might want to ask yourself why.

  6. Chooky 6

    The other side of the story:

    ‘Russian military in Syria: ‘Diametrically different approach’

    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/317035-syria-isis-russia-troops/

    “The key difference between the Russian and Western campaigns in Syria is that Moscow has been asked for help Damascus officially, unlike the US who “neither waited for the Syrian government to ask for help, nor had a mandate from the UN,” experts say.

    ‘Washington gives tacit support’

    “US’ “tacit support” for the Russian operation is a major change to its previous stance, and the reason is that “the Western bombing of Islamic State has been a complete failure,” says John Laughland, Director of Studies, Institute of Democracy and Cooperation in Paris.

    “We know that Washington and Moscow are cooperating and that Washington is giving tacit support. It’s precisely the result of the meeting that occurred in the UN building between presidents Putin and Obama. Moscow would inform Washington about its airstrikes in order to prevent any kind of accidents, any kind of conflict breaking out,” he said….

    • The Chairman 6.1

      Obama wants Assad (a democratically elected leader) replaced.

      Can one imagine the US response if it were Assad saying Obama should go?

    • Puckish Rogue 7.1

      No no you don’t understand, she was only talkign about TPPAs in general, not this specific TPPA

      There is a difference apparantly 🙂

    • The Chairman 7.2

      See my post at 3.1.2.1

    • Macro 7.3

      What else would you expect from her – she is as wedded to the FTA’s as Grocer and equally misguided. Who was it that pushed through our disastrous FTA with China? And where are we now? Billions in debt. Unemployment around 6% and no sign of reducing, 25% of youth under and unemployed. 25% of our children living in poverty, underfunding of health and record numbers of people living on the streets or in shoddy housing. All the result of exporting jobs overseas and importing crap from off shore. FTA’s are so good for us arn’t they.

      • marty mars 7.3.1

        + 1

        These ‘trade’ agreements are bogus trojan horses full of nasty capitalists.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.3.2

        +1

        The free-marketeers don’t seem to understand that if we had the level playing field that is necessary for free-trade to work none would happen.

        • Macro 7.3.2.1

          The thing is tho Draco – it’s not even a level playing field. NZ has to be the most naive of all nations when it comes to opening our borders to all manner of crap. And the amazing thing is – after 30 years of this idiocy – will still expect other countries to do the same as us! Here we think we have this amazing deal with China when we can export unsawn logs and get wine bottles in return! We can’t export sawn timber – China won’t allow that – they want the jobs of saw milling for themselves. Similarly with almost every other product. We allow carte blanche the importation of almost every imaginable product thereby under cutting almost all of our productive capacity – in the hope that we can export the unprocessed product of of our agriculture, fisheries and forestry.This is the only “economic” plan that NZ has had since 1984. And we wonder why our economy is so sick.
          I know I’m preaching to the converted here – you understand this as well if not better than I. But we – u and me and the others on here have to keep repeating this theme because it is only when the penny finally drops with those wedded to the “conventional wisdom” will we ever be able to move ahead as a country

    • Tracey 7.4

      So, you cite Clark when you agree with her?

    • The Chairman 8.1

      Another beat up and appeal to the ignorant.

      The image was used as an visual affect. The fact that it was a stillborn is largely irrelevant as the image of an aborted child (in the context of discussion) would have been similar.

      However, they should have foreseen this type of attack, thus used real footage.

      And no, they’re not a terrorist organization.

      • McFlock 8.1.1

        Did it occur to you than an abortion in those circumstances (late term, 20+ weeks) would be more likely because of medical necessity than an unwanted pregnancy?

        Interesting stat on infoshare: 67 out of 13,000 abortions occurred after the twentieth week of gestation.

        The image was used “as visual effect” in order to misrepresent the issue of abortion.

        • The Chairman 8.1.1.1

          If the visual affect is the same, where is the misrepresentation?

          • weka 8.1.1.1.1

            try asking women about the differences between miscarrying and having an abortion.

            The anti-abortion activists lied in a fairly gross and manipulative way, and got caught out, what’s do hard to understand about that?

            • The Chairman 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Try sticking to the context of the discussion.

              The image was used as an visual affect. The fact that it was a stillborn is largely irrelevant as the image of an aborted child (in the context of the discussion) would have been similar.

              What’s so hard to understand about that?

              If the visual affect is the same, where is the manipulation?

          • McFlock 8.1.1.1.2

            What “visual effect” are you talking about?

            A near-term still-birth is not anatomically (let alone “visually”) “the same” as 99.5% of abortions, and the abortions that might look the same probably took place as a result of a medical emergency in order to save a life that actually exists, rather than one that potentially, in your imagination, might exist.

            • The Chairman 8.1.1.1.2.1

              The one were an image of a stillborn was used.

              In the context of discussion, the visual representation in this case is the same, regardless if the baby was a stillborn or aborted.

              I’m not questioning the legitimacy of an abortion, I’m concerned about the goings on before and after the fact.

              • McFlock

                In the context of discussion, the visual representation in this case is the same, regardless if the baby was a stillborn or aborted.

                And you assert that based on what?

                • The Chairman

                  On the information I’ve seen. Thus, they are being challenged on the use of the stillborn image and not the actual visual comparison.

                  • McFlock

                    Well, forgive me if I don’t take your word for it.

                    After all, the discussion is about somebody making misleading claims about illegal footage in order to further their political agenda.

                    How do you know that the “information you have seen” wasn’t similarly lied about?

                    • The Chairman

                      Don’t take my word for it. Use you own commonsense.

                      A stillborn at 20 weeks would generally be as developed as a aborted foetus at 20 weeks. Thus, the visual comparison is the same.

                      ROBERTS: Lexi, do you hope that the organization that put together this video reaches out and apologizes to you or offers any sort of explanation?

                      LEXI FRETZ: No. I have talked to them directly and we’ve cleared the air and my husband and I are fine that it’s been used.

                      http://www.lifenews.com/2015/09/29/msnbc-got-a-big-surprise-while-pushing-its-abortion-agenda-on-mom-of-this-stillborn-baby/

                      Seems it’s no longer illegal use.

                    • McFlock

                      the only thing that the two foetuses necessarily have in common is that neither is ever going to be a living human being, and even a healthy foetus is not viable at that stage.

                      In addition to the differences in mode of leaving the woman’s body, your assumption is that serious developmental differences were not the reason for the fact of the stillbirth or the need for the medical procedure of abortion.

        • The Chairman 8.1.2.1

          No, it doesn’t.

          Hence, they’re not officially considered a terrorist organization.

          Therefore, claiming so is incorrect, but continuing to do so assists your smear-tactic affect.

          • McFlock 8.1.2.1.1

            Would you prefer “an organisation with leaders closely connected to a terrorist organisation” as a more accurate description? It doesn’t really improve their reputation.

        • The Chairman 8.1.2.2

          No evidence of manipulation in Planned Parenthood videos

          http://www.adfmedia.org/files/CoalfireCMPvideosReport.pdf

          • joe90 8.1.2.2.1

            That you’re citing rabid hate machine the Alliance Defending Freedom makes me think you should fuck off back to where you belong.

            Partnered with more than 300 like-minded institutions, including the Federalist Society, the Home School Legal Defense Association, the rabidly anti-LGBT Pacific Justice Institute, the Thomas More Law Center, anti-gay hate group the Family Research Council, the Heritage Foundation, and the now-defunct “ex-gay” organization Exodus International.

            • Filed a brief supporting statutory bans on gay sex in Lawrence v. Texas, the 2003 case in which the Supreme Court ultimately found state anti-sodomy laws unconstitutional.
            • Opposed anti-bullying efforts in public schools, calling for exceptions for speech or actions based on religious views and decrying “tolerance training” and “special protection” for LGBT students.
            • Created its own “Day of Truth” to combat the Day of Silence, which commemorates LGBT victims of bullying, harassment, and violence.
            • Crusaded against a gay-inclusive Boy Scouts of America, calling the BSA’s decision to allow gay scouts an assault on “freedom” and working with churches that sponsor scout troops to work around the new membership policy.
            • Defended California’s same-sex marriage ban, Proposition 8, in Hollingsworth v. Perry.
            • Offered free representation to Iowa county recorders who refused to provide same-sex couples with marriage licenses.
            • Dispatched chief counsel Benjamin Bull to Russia to meet with Yelena Mizulina, the legislative leader of that country’s crackdown on LGBT people.
            • Represented 18 plaintiffs challenging the Affordable Care Act’s requirement that for-profit employers cover contraception at no additional cost to employees.

            http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/12/04/meet-alliance-defending-freedom-foxs-favorite-a/197132

            [lprent: Please be a little more careful when you paste crap HTML into our pages. It “FUBAR’ed” the page because

            1. you put in li tags without an enclosing ul or ol
            2. you started with a i tag and didn’t close it (besides you should have used blockquote and /blockquote)

            I manually fixed it. But this isn’t something that I plan to make a career of. ]

            • The Chairman 8.1.2.2.1.1

              Wake up.

              I’m citing a independent report prepared by Coalfire Systems, Inc.

              I see you’re still playing the smear-tactic game.

              One can only assume you have nothing credible to put forward.

              • joe90

                One can only assume you have nothing credible to put forward.

                *sniff*

                joe90 …
                30 August 2015 at 10:17 am

                Planned Parenthood commissioned an independent review of the videos and the conclusion – yet another dishonest smear campaign waged by unhinged, deceptive anti-choice arseholes.

                A thorough review of these videos in consultation with qualified experts found that they do not present a complete or accurate record of the events they purport to depict.
                Each release by CMP contained a short edited video, between eight and fifteen minutes in length, that intercuts clips from the undercover recordings with other content, and a “full footage” video that claims to provide the raw, unedited footage of each interview. A video forensics expert, a television producer, an independent transcription agency, and Fusion GPS staff reviewed this material. While these analysts found no evidence that CMP inserted dialogue not spoken by Planned Parenthood staff, their review did conclude that CMP edited content out of the alleged “full footage” videos, and heavily edited the short videos so as to misrepresent statements made by Planned Parenthood representatives. In addition, the CMP transcript for the “full footage” video shot at Planned Parenthood’s Gulf Coast facility in Texas differs substantially from the content of the tape.
                At this point, it is impossible to characterize the extent to which CMP’s undisclosed edits and cuts distort the meaning of the encounters the videos purport to document. However, the manipulation of the videos does mean they have no evidentiary value in a legal context and cannot be relied upon for any official inquiries unless supplemented by CMP’s original material and forensic authentication that this material is supplied in unaltered form. The videos also lack credibility as journalistic products.

                Open mike 30/08/2015

                • The Chairman

                  Yes, I’ve seen the report, hence I posted a link to another independent review refuting it.

                  • joe90

                    Yes, I’ve seen the report, hence I posted a link to another independent review refuting it.

                    But you can’t be arsed citing the independent review refuting it.

            • joe90 8.1.2.2.1.2

              I manually fixed it. But this isn’t something that I plan to make a career of

              Yeah, apologies, blockquote it is then – thought the i > would work but obviously not

  7. Penny Bright 9

    FYI

    URGENT! TPPA – WALK AWAY! PROTEST! TODAY 1 October 2015

    Focus – John Key / shareholder in Bank of America!

    Have new petition focused on John Key + plenty of TPPA leaflets!

    Plus banners / placards / John Key / Tim Groser masks / street theatre!

    WHEN: Today 1 October 2015
    TIME: 3 – 5.30pm
    WHERE: Outside Auckland University
    Symonds St / Grafton Rd intersection
    _____________________________________________________

    WORDING OF NEW PETITION:

    To Prime Minister John Key
    MP for Helensville

    We, the undersigned:

    Are deeply concerned that as a key advocate for the ‘Trans-PacificPartnership Agreement’ (TPPA), you are a shareholder in the Bank of America, as detailed in the 2015 MPs Register of Financial Interests: (Pg 29)

    “Rt Hon John Key (National, Helensville)
    2 Other companies and business entities
    ………………………………………….
    Bank of America – banking”

    We see this as a serious ‘conflict of interest’, given that big banks like the Bank of America, stand to benefit, and profit from this pro-corporate TPPA.

    If this National Government, which you lead, does not ‘walk away’ from the secretive, undemocratic, ‘Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement’ (TPPA), then we pledge to campaign vigorously amongst our friends, families, neighbours and workmates, for the voting public to ‘walk away’ from National.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

    ……

    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  8. Penny Bright 10

    FYI

    ‘Open Letter’ to Auckland Mayor and Councillors / ALL MPs / Media:

    “Please provide evidence proving that I have ever stated anything that was factually inaccurate, concerning Auckland Council, or Auckland Council CCOs.”

    Kind regards

    Penny Bright

    …………………..

    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    ………………..

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  9. Tracey 11

    It’s over. In my opinion TPP will pass this weekend. Key is being to smirky

    • b waghorn 11.1

      Let’s hope all the pressure applied from many different groups in nz has made get a deal worth having.

      • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1

        It was always going to be a good deal for NZ, you lefties will not be able to stand there and take credit for it

        • maui 11.1.1.1

          Be interesting to see the public reaction to this “good deal”.

        • b waghorn 11.1.1.2

          Oh come on you know key is just a little puppy who is addicted to pats ,he’ll try and please any one who is vocal enough.
          I suspect he’s got father issues.

  10. Draco T Bastard 12

    Oops. somebody broke it. Looks like it could be This one but I could be wrong on that.

  11. b waghorn 13

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11521631
    Alan Duff doesn’t pull his punches. I would find it hard to disagree with what he has to say.

  12. SPC 14

    When Oz signed a FTA with China – they retained their right to block foreign buying of property and they got a better deal on dairy than we did.

    When we signed one, we gave Chinese the same rights to invest here as those in Oz, and that included property ownership.

    Our negotiators are second rate.

    But what could we expect we gave the world free trade for nothing, all we have left to give is governance sovereignty.

    Back in the 80’s the left of the Labour caucus took pineapple lumps (nuclear free status) and gave away the economy to the free market. A position on Cabinet and a chance to be leader by adhering to the deal. Once one learns that the climb up the ladder is enabled by betraying those below, there is no position that is then out of reach.

  13. Morrissey 15

    When did Jim Mora and co EVER discuss the TPPA seriously?
    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Thursday 1 October 2015
    Jim Mora, Beck Eleven, Kevin Milne

    After noting that the old trougher Helen Clark has undermined the Labour Party by backing the TPPA [1], host Jim Mora then said: “We’re not having another big discussion about the TPPA now…”

    “Another big discussion”? I would appreciate it if someone tell us when Mora’s light chat show dealt with the TPPA in more than a perfunctory, scoffing fashion, leave alone any “big discussion”.

    The only topics that Mora—or more likely, Richard Griffin—deals with in any depth are coffee, football and vexillology.

    Anything else gets the once-over-lightly. [2]

    [1] http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72604363/former-pm-clark-backs-controversial-trade-deal

    [2] /open-mike-20082015/#comment-1060938

  14. Paul 16

    Mora’s appalling panel discuss declining ratings on TV3 without even mentioning the boycott of the channel after the political axing of Campbell Live.
    Self censorship or total ignorance by the woeful panel.

    Mora must have self censored.
    His Tory bones doesn’t allow debate of topics that question his comfortable life.

    • Morrissey 16.1

      Well spotted Paul. But why did neither Beck Eleven nor Kevin Milne dare to mention it? My bet is that they know that “management”, i.e. John Key’s man Richard Griffin, would not approve, so they kept silent.

      Obviously they both need the money.

  15. Ffloyd 17

    Mora is on now. No idea what they are saying. It’s just white noise. Regarding Clark. A while ago my husband told me he had been speaking to a Nat. Party stalwart who told him that at a Nat P meeting they were told that according to a local NP mp that NZ would be shocked if they knew how often Clark had flown into NZ to have secret meetings with key. I scorned the idea but am now wondering if there is some truth in it. Also, has she seen the text that is so secret, if so is she happy that the good citizens of NZ are being treated like mushrooms.

    • Morrissey 17.1

      Helen Clark’s unwelcome re-entry into New Zealand politics, unsurprisingly endorsing the undemocratic and secretive National government, is a reminder how little serious scrutiny has been carried out on her actions in government. (The foul abuse and ridiculous campaigns by the likes of David Farrar, Whaleoil, Ian Wishart and the rest of the National Party’s foaming right wing army do not qualify as serious.)

      Chris Laidlaw gave her a free and uninterrupted platform last year….

      Open mike 06/01/2014

      As did Lisa Owen a couple of months ago….

      Open mike 29/08/2015

      The only decent grilling she ever got was by John Campbell.

    • lprent 17.2

      Helen comes to NZ quite a few times each year, usually as a leg on one of the enormous trips that her work requires. They are hardly a secret – they show up on facebook. Her husband Peter lives here and so do her parents. I rather suspect that has more to do with it than with anything else. /irony

      But being at the UNDP and with NZ trying to get onto the security council (and now on it), it isn’t that surprising that John Key was trying to catch her when she was here.

      It is probably like the amount that every kiwi politicians and diplomat going to New York seems to try to get a meeting with her if she is in town. Just like they try to get time with whoever is the ambassador and/or their staff if they get to Washington. It is about getting local information. /sarc

      Not everything is about the damn TPPA /irritation

      I suspect that when we finally find out what is in the TPPA, it is going to be way worse than expected even two years ago. I’ll disagree with Helen unless I can see a considerable movement from what has been leaked. The problems it is going to cause for the tech export industry alone is going to be immense.

      • Anne 17.2.1

        Thanks for that lprent.

        It beggars belief how so many people create false conspiracies about everything Helen does. And she’s always been open about her travels and activities. Since her mother died, she phones her Dad (now in his nineties) every day. She and her husband hook up whenever they can – she comes to NZ whenever she can fit it in… he goes to her in New York 2 or 3 times a year. That’s my understanding anyway.

        In other words, her trips to NZ are for personal reasons and have nothing to do with politics. Of course she keeps in touch with friends she made during her political years, but she made it clear from the start of her new career that NZ politics was out of bounds as far as she was concerned. All the indications are: she has kept strictly to that resolution.

    • Anne 17.3

      Ffloyd, that is mischief-making on the part of the National Party dirty tricks brigade. You know, the one ‘wot John Key knows nuffink about’ even though it was closely linked to his office.

      In the last term of the Clark govt. some of the malice ridden fantasies spread around about Helen – and indeed her husband – were utterly grotesque. The worst were by word of mouth because if they had appeared in print, the courts would have been submerged in defamation suits brought by all manner of people.

  16. Morrissey 18

    “I think Story‘s a GREAT show! I think Heather’s doing BRILLIANTLY.”
    Kevin Milne’s ludicrously false praise does his reputation no good at all.

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Thursday 1 October 2015
    Jim Mora, Beck Eleven, Kevin Milne

    Since John Key’s man Richard Griffin has obviously forbidden him from dealing with anything “boring” (i.e., serious) during his program, host Jim Mora has to find SOMETHING to talk about each day. So the program is full of chatter, over a bed of endless laughter, about virtually meaningless trivia taken straight off the bottom of the page on Google News.

    This afternoon, casting about desperately for something to take up five minutes or so in the last part of the program, Mora noted that Television One’s god-awful Rawdon Christie vehicle, Breakfast, had been canned. This led on to a bit of chat about the (possibly terminal) decline of TV3. Utterly unmemorable, except for this horrible example of misplaced loyalty to a friend by Kevin Milne….

    KEVIN MILNE: I think Story‘s a GREAT show! I think Heather’s doing BRILLIANTLY….

    As time is almost up, the host utters one of the few straight-up statements he’s made in weeks….

    JIM MORA: We’ve got ninety seconds. Now, uh, we can’t speak very usefully about Islamic State….

    Masochists and aficionados of the comedy of mortification may like to check out just how “BRILLIANTLY” Heather is doing…..

    Open mike 24/08/2015

    • Grindlebottom 18.1

      Are you sure he said it’s the Breakfast show that’s been canned?

      I know the Good Morning show’s going to be axed in December (no loss really, it’s pretty much just compered infomercials from what little I’ve seen).
      http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/72506926/tvnzs-good-morning-show-to-be-axed

      I haven’t heard or been able to find anything suggesting Breakfast ‘s for the chop as well though.

      • Morrissey 18.1.1

        Thanks for that, my friend. I knew it was too much to hope that Christie and co. had been consigned to the scrap-heap.

        I’ll miss Good Morning; it was so bad and so crass it was almost a masterpiece.

        Highlights include:

        1.) Wallace Chapman, Willie Jackson and Miles Davis discussing “relationship woes”….

        Open mike 08/06/2013

        2.) Jeanette Thomas interviewing a foolish luvvie who vapoured moronically about the Anders Breivik massacre without mentioning that he was a Christian or a terrorist….

        Open mike 28/08/2015

  17. Mike the Savage One 19

    So the government’s “investment approach” to social security is NOT really a proper investment approach, according to Bill Rosenberg from the CTU:

    http://union.org.nz/sites/union.org.nz/files/Investment%20Approach%20is%20not%20an%20investment%20approach%20-%20Rosenberg_0.pdf

    Yet more proof of the flawed welfare reforms we have been served up!

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    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    4 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    7 days ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    7 days ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    7 days ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    1 week ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    2 weeks ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago