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Open mike 06/01/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, January 6th, 2014 - 265 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step right up to the mike …

265 comments on “Open mike 06/01/2014”

  1. Ecosse 1

    Ho Hum. I have just scan read 5th January, “Open”(closed/censored) Mic. To see that some that have had the audacity to question & propose other ways forward, dispatched. There has to be a balance of good, open, frank debate that does not discourage others from contributing. I realize that this site is not directly related to the Labour Party yet is a place apparently where those from the broad left can comment. Yet the amount of abusive, confrontational language is appauling . The remit surely, of the site is to challenge the actions of the racist right wing morons in charge and to agitate the labour party to to do better & put forward polices for those that have been victimized, forgotten, written off by those nasty NeoCons!

    Someone has said that this site is not a mouth piece of the Labour Party and a coalition of the broad Left however quote the fact of being formed in the late 30′s by The Labour Party. This may be wrong yet seems like a acute case of “Hypocritical Having My Cake and Eating It All!”

    From only being on this site for near on a month & I hate to jump to a conclusion yet can see no other. This site, seems to be run and by a “Gang of Four/Five”, whom have there own hobby horse issues and see no room for others to have their points fairly and equitably viewed without them being vilified. The Gang of Five, under the guise usually of authors, seem to run this site like a 3rd rate, chat room. These people should know better and allow open debate and get off their one trick hobby horses and allow others to fully contribute, yet they wont…

    One has to wonder about the mindset of these people whom protest to support the broad left yet seem intent on keeping the status quo on the site. Why would this be? Surely they cant be so shallow, as not truly to mean as they protest? Yet actually wish to keep this Perpetual Argue Mental Chat Room Atmosphere as it will secure their positions within it?!

    An election looms. NZ has been through merry hell under the command of The Wannabe Fascists of The National Party. A defining moment approaches. Unite as far as possible and agitate, organize, question The Labour Party to do better….Pose the views of our fellow citizens whom have had the life kicked out of them & don’t have the luxury of being a comfortable, one issue-no further comment author/chat room admin(s). I don’t want another term of enslavement of National, do you? Most on this site don’t I am sure….Yet, you have to wonder about some of the authors, As Opposition suits their purposes and keeps their Mini Me Personality, Power Base in Tact in The Fiefdom of TS….

    I may not be able to vote till later on this year against The Scum in charge of this wonderful country, however I can vote with my feet and would advocate others do to find a site(s) (for QOT’s benefit, no need to pique too hard, there are many, take your choice. I am sure if you ask Google “nicely” it will oblige) where your voice, comment, suggestion,,,no matter how small is treated with equality, respect and with the true aim of creating a better New Zealand for all! Take care one et All!

    [RL: If you read the actual intro to Open Mike "The usual rules of good behaviour apply (See Policy)". Open means open to all-comers, their ideas and robust debate - not open to mindless, offensive abuse.]

    • Sacha 1.1

      Political movements are bigger than particular parties.

      To attract a wide range of contributors that reflect such a movement and those it serves we must all create a welcoming space to meet and talk. There is plenty of knowledge about how to do that, including respecting the communication needs of women who make up 51% of the population.

      Productive debate does not mean allowing anyone to say whatever they like, especially in the form of the drunken slurs which attracted moderation yesterday.

      MMP allows selecting a political party that fits your own interests best. Likewise, there are many vehicles for contributing to the broader discussion.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.2

      Dear Ecosse Martyr.

      Far more than five commenters here.

      Far more than five readers too.

      Even over a period during which a large cohort were on holiday.

    • RedLogix 1.3

      From only being on this site for near on a month & I hate to jump to a conclusion yet can see no other. This site, seems to be run and by a “Gang of Four/Five”

      Over the seven years this site has run, there have been many authors. Far more people have come and moved on than would be apparent in just one month. In the big picture there certainly has not been a “Gang of Five’ running the site.

      Quite the opposite – the person who really runs this site Lynn Prentice, is remarkably ‘hands-free’ in steering the authors or the content. His prime concern is to provide an environment in which robust debate can thrive and then he sits back and watches the fun.

      The only other author/mod whose been around since the start is me, and I might be fairly po-faced bugger, but the one thing I’ve never done is stop anyone expressing their ideas (as distinct from behaving badly). Ever. Period.

      What you are really touching on is a question of tone. The atmosphere at The Standard has best been described as “noisy local bar”, with a few quiet nooks. Not everyone feels comfortable with that, and either feel silenced or simply not heard. It is still is a masculine dominated space.

      Which is not all bad. A lot of the puffing and preening that goes on can also carry a sharp wit, humour and insight. For all the surface “Perpetual Argue Mental Chat Room Atmosphere” there is also an underlying community and over time the really smart people adapt their positions and behaviours. It’s challenging and some people rise to it.

      And while men may seem to be engaged in testosterone poisoned death matches – the thing that’s easy to miss is that often the very next day the clock has been reset, the grudge match buried and they’re happily batting away on some completely new topic.

      For most people new here, the biggest challenge is just the usual one, breaking into the cliquey conversations that go on. It just takes time, watch what’s going on and eventually it flows. When I take a few months out, I’ve noticed it takes time to ease back in.

      An election looms. NZ has been through merry hell under the command of The Wannabe Fascists of The National Party. A defining moment approaches. Unite as far as possible and agitate, organize, question The Labour Party to do better….Pose the views of our fellow citizens whom have had the life kicked out of them

      Yes your heart is surely in a good place. It often takes an outsider to see clearly what others have stopped seeing because it was there all the time.

      • karol 1.3.1

        Ecosse only been here for a month or so?

        During December some of the regular authors (or at least ones who have been pretty regular in posting over the last year) tend to take some time off writing, take some time out.

        • lprent 1.3.1.1

          Authors come and authors go, and periodically then they come back again. Depends what their work and family loads are. Sometimes it depends on if they can find anything that they really really want to say.

          We’ve had about 4 almost complete rollovers of regular authors over the last 6 and a half years. It isn’t a career. It is a voluntary activity that The Standard trust (administered by myself and Mike Smith because we were the known IRL people when we set up the trust) provide to invited people as authors, and anyone else as commenters who behave within our policy.

          There are 40 odd authors with writing rights if they can remember their logins (because I don’t turn them off). I’d expect that a fair number of them will start writing again this election year.

      • Ennui 1.3.2

        A wise comment Red…I think the Scot has a point. Gang of Five? Sometimes it feels that way, to me that’s a known quantity, the other bit is the propensity of bystanders here to kick the (wo)man whilst they are down. Perhaps we should reflect on how good we are at carving our own side up….at this rate we might just kill one another off and leave the field clear for the Right.

        • weka 1.3.2.1

          Gang of Unknown Five?

          fify.

          Nothing like insinuation without being clear to leave people wondering who the enemy are and this undermine a community.

      • Ad 1.3.3

        Well phrased there.

        Ecosse should stick with it.
        This is the best place for political debate among actual citizens and commentators anywhere in New Zealand.

        Ecosse, the best way to get debate going the way you want is to write and propose a post. Up the flag, see who salutes it. Do it.

      • lprent 1.3.4

        It is still is a masculine dominated space.

        A lot less so these days. Looking at commenters the way I do, I’m seeing a steady approach towards parity.

        • karol 1.3.4.1

          I think there’s more women (as far as I can tell re-pseudonymns and stated gender) participating than previously.

          I understand “masculine” to be as much about culture and socially aquired characteristics as to do with biology. The masculine legacy of politics generally has slowly changed over the years, but still some of the older characteristics linger.

          • NZ Femme 1.3.4.1.1

            In my pols paper last semester at Otago, during one of our tutorials that followed a couple of lectures on NZ Politics and the Media, our tutorial group had to divide in to four smaller groups. Each smaller group had to represent one of four NZ political websites: The Standard, The Daily Blog, Whale Oil, and Kiwi Blog. (Couldn’t choose which blog team you could be on, and to my barely disguised horror, I ended up on the Whale Oil team. It was excruciating.)

            Anyway, the interesting thing was that the three females on “The Standard” team, all took on male gendered persona’s, and started talking in this kind of gruff salty vernacular. It was kind of disturbing.

            • weka 1.3.4.1.1.1

              Crikey.

              So much for the feminazi take over then.

            • QoT 1.3.4.1.1.2

              That exercise sounds disturbingly fascinating.

              • NZ Femme

                It was!

                I had to stop myself from bellowing “Why aren’t you channelling QoT in all her magnificent mouthy glory??? Or Karol, with her *I will not be ruffled by white noise onslaughts* .” While trying really hard to channel a sort of femmed up version of Tighty Righty/BM and saying “left wing wankers” a lot.

            • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 1.3.4.1.1.3

              @ NZ Femme,

              That is fascinating!

              There are a couple of points that arise to explain what occurred in your tutorial:

              a. The Standard is full of male gendered personas talking in a gruff and salty vernacular.

              b. There are a variety of personas, male, female and gender neutral on the Standard and there are many polite and reasoned comments as well as gruff ones, yet the male gendered personas speaking in a gruff way are what that group of people noticed.

              I choose b. as being the most accurate explanation.

              • Tim

                Interesting!. I/we did a similar thing (media/sosc related) with social networking (internet dating) sites a few years ago. In my case the one and only social networking site involving a profile database I have, or ever intend signing up to.
                Our profiles were complete crap in terms of persona and physical stats but the various responses were fascinating, BOTH in terms of various messages received, and in the way ‘sysops’ made various assumptions.
                Of course … only of anecdotal value and borderline unethical, but it did serve to reinforce the findings of an earlier Queensland study.

              • NZ Femme

                Yes, I would go with B as well. It really fascinated me. :)

                The tutorial group I was streamed in to were quite young. As in, NONE of my classmates were old enough to vote at the last election, and only a very small number (3, including me from memory) were looking at Pols as a major, so I don’t think they were reading up on the various political blogs prior to the class requirement.

                • weka

                  How much time was spent reading the blogs for the assignment then? Over what kind of time? If it was just a couple of days I can imagine coming away with a distinct impression that doesn’t reflect reality over time.

                  • NZ Femme

                    The time period was over approximately 10 – 14 days, depending on what day your tutorial would have been. And yes, I’d have to say, it felt like the tutorial class was reflecting something of a caricature rather than the reality of the blogs. (Except for Whale Oil, because – well – that already is a caricature ;D )

              • Morrissey

                ERRATUM

                There are a variety of personas, male, female and gender neutral…

                should be….

                There are a variety of personae, male, female and gender neutral…

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Firstly, nobody likes a pedant.

                  Secondly, correcting the spelling of commenters here is the act of a wanker, unless the original commenter claims to have a brilliant grasp of the language and accidentally trips themselves up.

                  Thirdly, pedants who correct the language of others and get it wrong are even funnier than the commenter in example two.

                  Thanks for my first laugh of the day, Moz.

                  • Morrissey

                    ….unless the original commenter claims to have a brilliant grasp of the language and accidentally trips themselves [sic] up.

                    Ignorami will be relieved to know they have such a sterling defender as you, my friend….
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IvWoQplqXQ

                  • NZ Femme

                    Wait! Now I’m confused. Should I have written:

                    “…all took on male gendered personas…” or “…all took on male gendered personae..”

                    My formal academic education ended precisely at the end of the third term of my fourth form year – outside of a failed attempt at Massey in 1999 when I freaked out at a 100 level Psych paper that involved basic stats. The giant gaps in my maths knowledge became painfully obvious to me at that point, and I was too embarrassed to ask for help.

                    These days, I’m not at all adverse to asking for help or clarification, so please feel free to be as pedantic as you like with my spelling and/or grammar. :)

                • SHG (not Colonial Viper)

                  “personas” is correct, because we are writing in English.

                  • Arfamo

                    Agreed. Personae is correct Latin plural of persona. Personas is correct English for plural of persona. Nobody these days bothers about sticking with the latin plural forms for words we’ve imported into English.

            • just saying 1.3.4.1.1.4

              Interesting.

              I took on a male personna (albeit a male version of myself) for the first few few months commenting on TS.

              Anyways, what conclusions did they come to – do you remember?

              It would be hard to get a feel for this place in just a few weeks, you’d have the advatage of the outsider point of view, but without any of the depth of the multiple histories/herstories.

              • NZ Femme

                @Just Saying;

                Yes, I think the majority of the students wouldn’t have had a very long overview of the four sites, because it was A: a first year paper, B: the average age was quite young, C: the majority were doing the paper as an elective outside of their majors and D: it was relatively early in the semester. So yes, it was a small snapshot of time in Blog land.

                In terms of conclusions, really the exercise was a 101 exploration of the political landscape in NZ via the internet. I think what stood out was how quickly and easily people became polarised and entrenched in our relative positions.

                @Karol:

                Yes I survived being a Right Wing Nut Job! It was actually a good exercise for me, because I had to argue against my own belief system/world view. It forced me to really think about why I think/believe the things I do, which over the years (cos I’m 43 now) have become – I don’t know – naturalised (?). I’d half forgotten how I’d arrived at many of my beliefs.

            • karol 1.3.4.1.1.5

              Fascinating – and you participated in and survived WO – well done!

        • Treetop 1.3.4.2

          Do you keep any statistics on the gender of commenters?

          I’d like to know what stats you keep?

          • lprent 1.3.4.2.1

            Do you keep any statistics on the gender of commenters?

            Not directly (obviously I cannot).

            But I do have the non-visible email addresses and the emails that people send to me (and some of those have surprised me). Moreover as moderator I do scan a lot of comments. Between one thing and another I can usually pick the probable gender, broad age of most of the commenters, and educational levels of commenters after they do hundreds of comments.

            Both are things that I actually look for because I think a well rounded mix of both is crucial to developing an effective community.

            Similarly I can also get aggregate probability information from other sources. Statcounter, wordpress stats, and Alexa are all pretty low confidence stuff. The new Google analytics appears to be pretty good – if only because they describe how they arrive at their confidence levels..

            But mostly I just look at the comments, and there has been a noticeable change over the years with a gradually reduction in overwhelming predominance of youngish males towards a older audience with a more equal gender distribution.

            • Treetop 1.3.4.2.1.1

              Thanks for that. I suppose you put the bad spellers under the level of education, I expect that this does not take too many comments. (Re spelling, I have my good and bad days).

              Possibly someone at the GCSB has more information on The Standard, maybe I could inquire there!

              • karol

                I realise I had become dependent on Chrome’s spellcheck – quick to type, easy to notice and correct errors underlined in red without looking closely.

                Now I’m using FF without spellcheck, my spelling is noticable atrocious.

              • TRacey

                nice

              • lprent

                I suppose you put the bad spellers under the level of education,

                Hell no. I’m a naturally sloppy speller saved by the spell check systems. My pronunciation is even worse (especially according to Lyn who gets wound up by that) because often I have only read the words.

                Different when looking at code of course – you have to love those compilers.

                I usually assess education from what people say. In particular if they can present an argument that I can’t find by putting in key phrases into google and finding out where they got them from. Few people who understand what they are talking about will ever use exactly the same language to describe the concept.

    • QoT 1.4

      Yes, this is such a terrible place of censorship. I mean, have you ever tried posting almost the exact same thing to multiple days’ Open Mikes? I bet you they don’t let it through, especially if you’re threatening the Final Five.

      Hang on a minute, what’s this? http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05012014/#comment-753900

    • Pasupial 1.5

      Ho Hum?.. Hum drum.

      Some have a hard row to hoe.
      Others just want to bang their own drum to tell the hos how hard to row.

  2. Sacha 2

    After his tilt at the Auckland Mayoralty, Rev Uesifili Unasa eyes up representing Pasifika interests on the national stage – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11181763

    • i like unasa..and would like to see him in parliament/a position of power..

      ..i see him as a positive agent for change..

      ..and have said so @ whoar….as far back as when he stood for the mayoralty..

      ..i have never met the man..

      ..but what i have seen to date has impressed..

      ..phillip ure..

  3. amirite 3

    This government motto is Sell, sell, sell everything that is worth anything – and then we sell the population into slavery.
    Oh wait…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11181102

    • infused 3.1

      New Zealanders should be able to sell *their* land to whoever they please.

      • CC 3.1.1

        Yes infused – of course. After all, the land was pretty much all stolen from the original inhabitants so ‘easy come, easy go’. However, one would have to wonder how your descendants will feel when they achieve the same negative social statistics that are currently dominated by Maori as a consequence.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 3.1.2

        Infused, it’s not theirs. Eminent domain and all that. Of course, if you sell it to citizens of other nations eminent domain becomes that little bit harder to enforce. Uncle Sam and all that.

      • North 3.1.3

        Sell “*their* land to whoever they please…..” Infused ? You mean on the same basis as *their* car or *their* flat screen ?

        National interest ramifications are *absolutely* irrelevant then ? Just a question which you may care to answer.

        • Tracey 3.1.3.1

          rules have changed since the minority became the majority. The minority are now thrown in prison for stealing

        • Tim 3.1.3.2

          Infused probably works on that old justification that ‘they can’t take it with them’. It’s OK of course for citizens to become tenants of their own nation – IF of course they can even afford to do that. Different cause, but same effect of various Pacific Islanders and Indian Ocean dwellers facing oblivion

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.4

        It’s not their land.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.2

      A member’s bill from Labour MP and former Foreign Minister Phil Goff to limit rural land sales to foreigners was recently drawn from Parliament’s ballot and will be debated early this year.

      We need to do better than limiting foreign ownership, we need to ban it altogether.

      • Flip 3.2.1

        Agree. If you do not live here I cannot think of a single reason to own land. Goes for corporations owning property as well. If not majority NZ owned they should not hold land.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1

          My ban on foreign ownership also includes NZ businesses and corporations.

  4. Saarbo 4

    At 8.45am this morning on Radio New Zealand, an article on Ngai Tahu creating NZ’s largest dairy farm in Balmoral, South Island. I bet it ends up employing lots and lots of philipino workers. It will draw water out of the Waimakariri River…how is this still allowed to happen given water issues. This cannot be a good thing.

    • Tracey 4.1

      “I bet it ends up employing lots and lots of philipino workers. It will draw water out of the Waimakariri River”

      What is your basis for both these comments?

      • weka 4.1.1

        That’s what other industrial dairy farms are doing as a matter of course?

        Plus chopping down trees and using shit loads of electricity.

    • Puckish Rogue 4.2

      If its the same Balmarol I’m thinking of thats a large amount of forestry land to be converted but on the plus side (for them) its mostly flat

      • weka 4.2.1

        Chop down trees and build an AGW-enhancing desert instead. Real smart.

        • Puckish Rogue 4.2.1.1

          Smart if they want to make more money that is

          • weka 4.2.1.1.1

            Smart if they want to make more money without any regard for anything or anyone else.

            fify

            It is possible to make money without being ethically bankrupt.

            • Puckish Rogue 4.2.1.1.1.1

              Just to let you know its not my decision to convert it to dairy its Ngai Tahus decision, the guardians of the land and all that

            • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1.1.2

              It is possible to make money without being ethically bankrupt.

              Actually, no it’s not.

              • Tracey

                can you expand on that?

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Modern business practices require the exploitation of many, often pushing them into poverty, so as to provide profit for the few. On top of that there’s also the damage done to the environment especially when the environment has already been damaged beyond sustainability, i.e, incapable of maintaining life cycles. And then there’s competition which forces the cheapest, least suitable practices on the participants in the market.

                  No, it’s not possible to make money without being ethically bankrupt.

                  • Bill

                    agree Making money in ‘the market’ involves that you acquire for the lowest price and sell on at the highest…ie, rip off all and sundry or be ripped off…. and sunk.

                    • weka

                      So the guy who I buy my veges off locally, who intentionally keeps his prices low, who prioritises selling to locals, grows organically, is doing ecosystem restoration, he’s ethically bankrupt?

                      By your and Draco’s definition we are all ethically bankrupt for ever having bought or sold anything.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      By the sounds of things, he’s not using modern business practices.

                    • weka

                      Actually he is. He’s part of the growing movement of ethical modern business practices, but much of what he does is old school traditional too (be good to your customers, look after the land etc).

                      Besides, reread my original comment about making money and you will see I didn’t specify ‘modern business practices’. You made some assumptions and then dumped some ideology into the conversation.

                      One of the first proper jobs I had was working for a guy who ran his own business. I was the only employee. The owner paid above award rates in pretty much every respect and was very good to me. This was late 80s. He once pointed out to me that when I slagged off ‘business’ policially I was also talking about him. That really made me sit up and take notice and be much more discerning in my politics (I of course had meant ‘big business’ and hadn’t really thought about him as a businessman until he pointed it out). Got to get the target right or so many people get lost along the way.

                    • Bill

                      Fair point, weka. Correction – you can be less unethical, though never entirely ethical when you act within the confines of a capitalist market economy.

                    • Ennui

                      Draco / Bill, lets strip the bullshit out of business ethics (because despite all the theories etc it is essentially really simple). Business consists solely of transactions aka trading, buying, selling.

                      To do a transaction has no ethical basis other than I have, you want, we agree a price. We then trade if we agree (or don’t if we don’t agree).

                      Essentially it is as honest or dishonest as the traders make it. It has no ethic to be bankrupt of. Ethics are particular to the individuals involved (and might I venture be directed by the environment or system….for example to place an individual in a position of power in a transaction – think corporate banksters- and their ethics might naturally vere toward greed).

                      Interestingly most long term successful small businesses survive on their long term reputation as being honest traders, usually within a circle of known like businesses. How do I know? Because that is my experience out here in “”marketland”.

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                      @ Ennui 2.29pm

                      The transactions you are referring to involve people and people can act ethically or not- you are taking the people out of the equation in your theory.

                      You can’t have a market without people. Isn’t this exactly what is going wrong with the current ‘market theory’ mentality – that all the ‘people effects’ are taken out of the equation? i.e. In order to get it resembling a scientific theory ‘people effects’ such as irrationality, following the leader – and lack of ethical behaviour – are removed.

                      This approach is sadly removing the ability to know or predict the effects of markets. Isn’t this one of the major reasons we are suffering sorely? (from this error of omitting very real inputs in our calculations)

                    • Bill

                      Ennui. Buying and selling isn’t the simple and neutral process you claim it to be. It takes place within a framework of rules and conventions – capitalism or market economics. and one (some would say the) of the defining features of capitalism is exploitation. So, that’s the arena your business operates in. And I’m going to guess we can agree that exploitation is unethical. And even if you are self employed or your business is a collective where no wages are paid and so no direct exploitation occurs…materials still have to be sourced. And that unavoidably ‘supports’ exploitation. Likewise, when you sell on or provide a service, the people doing the purchasing have to enter into exploitative arrangements in order to afford your product/service.

                      That’s not to say that all business operators/owners are bad bastards – they’re not.

                    • weka

                      There is also the ethics of what is being sold. Trafficking of child prositutes as neutral transaction?

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      The owner paid above award rates in pretty much every respect and was very good to me.

                      That’s nice but he was still increasing his own income through your work which is the base exploitation inherent within capitalism. Yes, administration of the business is important but you as the creator of the wealth should have had a direct say in how much the administration was paid. It is this lack of say that employees have that makes their employment exploitation and thus makes a business person unethical even if they’re good people.

                      He’s part of the growing movement of ethical modern business practices,

                      So he’s actually making effort to be more ethical – good for him.

                      but much of what he does is old school traditional too (be good to your customers, look after the land etc).

                      The old school didn’t really have a lot of looking after the land in it. In fact, it was the old way of doing things that has caused so much damage to NZs environment – a way of doing things that National, in their re-write of the RMA, is bringing back.

                  • Ennui

                    Blue / Bill / Weka, I dont disagree with your sentiments at all: if you read me again I say the process of business is transactions and that transactions in themselves have no ethics. I also note that the environment and system will affect a individual involved in the transaction.

                    Business is in my mind entirely simple and easy to corrupt. For example the power relationships can be manipulated (as in child trafficking). The issue in my mind is how the power relationships can be made equitable in a transaction. If they are equal there can be no exploitation.

                    My way of keeping it even is to have long term relationships where I can and rely upon regulation etc where I have to. Its a very imperfect world. I suppose the real point is that humans are very corruptable.

                    • weka

                      “The issue in my mind is how the power relationships can be made equitable in a transaction.”

                      Which power relationships do you mean? The ones between the two people doing the transactions? Or the ones between all the people affected by the transaction?

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                      @ Ennui,

                      I agree what you are saying about long-term relationships and reputation being a good way to go, however it is becoming apparent that ignoring ethics is giving those who are prepared to be dishonest an upper hand.

                      I believe that the original idea behind markets was exactly what you are conveying at 3.08 – kind of ‘keeping it simple’ I often think about how that system was set up at a time where ethics were possibly valued with greater resolve, (or would that be probably ?)

                      Ignoring ethics and the complexity of people in regards to transactions people make, in my opinion, however, is simply failing us.

                    • Ennui

                      Weka, what I mean is the power in relation to the transaction….i.e does the seller have a monopoly that gives them an unfair power advantage. Is the buyer of the loaf starving with lots of cash but cant buy nearby? And there maybe downstream effects as you intimate that need to be mitigated in the transaction.

                      Blue, you are right, ethics cannot be ignored in the individuals, the institutions and the systems / isms.

                      I deliberately went down this track to flush out the difference between doing a transaction (business between two individuals etc) and the systems we call out as unfair and corrupt. People since time immemorial have transacted business, traded, bought, sold. It predates any of our current models and “isms”.

                      Why did I go down this path? We have a future in which we will still need to trade / exchange / transact. We can pull down isms, institutions etc but we wont stop transactions. I think “transactions” and the ethics / rules around them are the best place to discuss alternatives. Rather than what we want to pull down WHAT do we want to construct? How will it work? What will govern a transaction?

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                      +1 Ennui,

                      You appear to be aiming at unclouded clear analysis; it is hard to fix things appropriately if the varied problems aren’t separated out and addressed. Good stuff!

                    • greywarbler

                      Thinking about ethical trading in the simple sense. I noticed when reading about the past that establishing correct weights and measures was very important in establishing ethical markets of the people’s in the town square sort. And in Nelson there is still, or was till recently, the official yard measure set in concrete to use as a ‘yardstick’ for all traders.

              • Puckish Rogue

                The new Green Party campaign slogan for the next election :)

            • freedom 4.2.1.1.1.3

              re the “It is possible to make money without being ethically bankrupt.”

              I agree with Draco, (and hopefully am not putting words in his mouth but the “no it’s not” was an obvious mass-generalisation, and who can get through a day without a half dozen of those to keep you sane )

              Far too many NZ businesses seem incapable of behaving ethicallly in the pursuit of profit. The nz dairy industry being a glaring example.

              $6.50+ for 500g of butter in NZ as exhibit one
              $2.80+ for 1 lt of milk as exhibit two
              add in the now familiar $4 a loaf for bread and you have three of the most basic of grocery items costing more than an hour’s net income for a minimum wage earner.

              so yeah, the minders of NZ business need a refresher course in basic social ethics

              • weka

                So you think that the small organic dairy farms in NZ that exist at least partially outside of Fonterra and are trying to or are succeeding at working entirely outside of that model are ethically bankrupt?

                I take your point about the need for mass generalisations on occasion, but if you just named every business owner in NZ as ethically bankrupt how can you expect them to take any notice of what you say or be willing to change? And what exactly are you going to do with all these ethical bankrupts come the revolution.

                • freedom

                  “if you just named every business owner in NZ as ethically bankrupt how can you expect them to take any notice of what you say or be willing to change?”
                  I never said anything of the sort weka.

                  re dairy: If I had just said Fonterra then I feel some readers would have steered the responsibility for the behaviour away from the stockholders in that company i.e the farmers. Farmers whose current practises, especially in Dairy, are swiftly moving away from NZ’s history of largely ethical farming into the realm of factory farming.

                  I thought it was also clear that I was not throwing a blanket over the whole mess when I wrote “Far too many NZ businesses seem incapable of behaving ethicallly in the pursuit of profit. ”

                  I think we can all agree that it is largely the primary industries where this profit over people attitude is most often witnessed and in most need of adjustment. Overall though I fundamentally believe that the minders of NZ business do need a refresher course in basic social ethics. Even the good guys can always do better.

                  • weka

                    Fair enough.

                    I said: It is possible to make money without being ethically bankrupt.

                    Draco said: No, it’s not.

                    You said: I agree with Draco.

                    I took that to mean that everyone making money in NZ was ethically bankrupt. I can see that you didn’t, but can you see why it came across that way?

                    This sub thread was in response to PR saying that it was smart to do whatever to make money, and I pointed out that what he really meant was it was smart to make money that way if you didn’t give a shit about anyone else (ie unethically). I was making a differentiation between ethical business and unethical business. Draco and Bill posted some ideology and theory stating that for all intents and purposes there was no distinction. Hence my conclusion that those agreeing with Draco and disagreeing with me were saying all business was unethical.

                    It’s a fairly absurd debate now, but it comes out of my increasing frustration for the amount of focus on abstractions and ideology here at the expense of exploring actual solutions (theory is important, I’m just saying the balance is wrong).

                    • freedom

                      “It’s a fairly absurd debate now, but it comes out of my increasing frustration for the amount of focus on abstractions and ideology here at the expense of exploring actual solutions”

                      that happens a lot when humans are involved, :)

                      and may I add
                      you are not alone

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      It’s a fairly absurd debate now, but it comes out of my increasing frustration for the amount of focus on abstractions and ideology here at the expense of exploring actual solutions (theory is important, I’m just saying the balance is wrong).

                      Your inability to think (too abstract for me) or to offer cogent arguments for or against the solutions offered is one of the reasons it’s getting absurd.

                    • weka

                      Thanks freedom :-)

                      Draco,

                      What you call my ‘inability to think’ is actually a cognitive disability which is esp bad at the moment. It’s not an inability to think so much as a need to ration my cognitive energy.

                      I repeatedly ask for examples of solutions, and routinely get offered more theory by you.

                      We also have a different take on logic, as evidenced by the thread you just linked to. In that thread I DID offer cogent responses to what was being put out. What I see you doing in that thread is not really engaging with what I was saying and instead either going on misunderstanding, or just saying what you want. It’s just happened again this very thread. Read my synopsis of the sub thread again and tell me where I am wrong.

                    • TRacey

                      Hmmmm I think you can make money and have ethics.

                      Ethics need to be defined so that I can disagree with myself. So does “make money”. MOst of my work is for free and the rest I seriously undercharge. Thankfully my partner has ore secure income.

                      Business process is as abstract and largely redundant comment in relation to ethics because a process rarely exists without humans, from imagining it, to planning it, to implementing it.

                      The process may be inherently unethical if designed and implemented that way, or can become unethical.

                      I dont see the point of making an argument based on such an abstract it might as well not exist within the context of the discussion of ethics.

                      I may also have misunderstood the post.

                    • the elephants in the room being ignored in all this talk of ‘ethical-dairying’..

                      ..is a)..that dairy causes cancer..so essentially..as a country..we export death..we had may as well be growing/exporting tobacco..

                      ..and b)..all the other vile/cruel treatments of animals continues apace with the ‘unethical’-farmers..

                      ..ie..calves taken from mothers after birth..(how do you think you get the milk..?..it is intended for them..in the grand scheme of things..)

                      ..and have you ever heard that..?..the cries-of-separation from both the mothers..and their calves..?

                      ..you really should..it is heart-rending..will chill yr soul..and should have you thinking:.

                      .(‘this is being done in my name?..)’

                      ..and of course..once the serially-inseminated cows are flogged out..after a few years..(natural life-span 20+ yrs..)

                      ..they too are sent to the slaughterhouse..

                      ..’ethical-dairying’..?

                      ..my arse..!

                      phillip ure..

                    • weka

                      You may be surprised to hear then that much of my objection to industrial dairying is for animal welfare reasons.

                      It is perfectly possible to grow milk for human consumption while keeping the calf with the cow.

                      Consumption of dairy doesn’t cause cancer.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      In that thread I DID offer cogent responses to what was being put out.

                      No, actually, you didn’t.

                      What I see you doing in that thread is not really engaging with what I was saying and instead either going on misunderstanding, or just saying what you want. It’s just happened again this very thread.

                      I engaged with what you said, I even understood it. I then pointed out where and why you were wrong.

                      What was that expression that QoT used the other day that fits what you’re doing here? Oh, that’s right, Gaslighting.

                      Read my synopsis of the sub thread again and tell me where I am wrong.

                      You were wrong in this:
                      Draco and Bill posted some ideology and theory stating that for all intents and purposes there was no distinction
                      because you failed to understand what was actually being said which is what you said here:
                      but it comes out of my increasing frustration for the amount of focus on abstractions.
                      Thinking is an abstraction itself and without using them we would be very limited in expressing ideas for solutions. Ethics are also an almost totally abstract concept.

                    • weka

                      You were wrong in this:
                      Draco and Bill posted some ideology and theory stating that for all intents and purposes there was no distinction

                      because you failed to understand what was actually being said which is what you said here:

                      but it comes out of my increasing frustration for the amount of focus on abstractions.

                      Thinking is an abstraction itself and without using them we would be very limited in expressing ideas for solutions. Ethics are also an almost totally abstract concept.

                      What you have done there is go “you are wrong, I am right” but you haven’t said how you think I am wrong, so I am still none the wiser what you mean (other than that you think I am wrong).

                      You’ve pointed to something I’ve already said, and decided that my acknowledging my frustration with abstracts means that I didn’t understand ie you’ve decided you know my reality better than me and haven’t bothered to check if you are right. In fact the times when I do put the mental effort into reading something I am unfamiliar with that seems abstract to me, I understand it well enough (or enough to get the gist at least and come back and ask questions) but I still feel frustrated by the approach. Hence my comment elsewhere where I said I didn’t want someone to say the solution was to smash capitalism, I wanted some actual ‘how’ (which you then supplied).

                      I’m sure you think you are being clear, but making an assertion without explanation isn’t clarifying. I suspect that you don’t like my using the term ‘abstract’, and that we use that term in different ways. But instead of seeking clarification about what I mean (which might lead to better communication between us), you now want to have a meta argument about abstraction. Given that we don’t communicate that well already, I don’t think that’s a useful path.

                      “Ethics are also an almost totally abstract concept.”

                      Only if you look at them abstractly. If you look at how they are applied then you are looking at an application as well, not just an abstraction.

                      There was a great example of this whole thing the other day when I suggested that Bill and RL bringing conceptual discussion into a space where people were still feeling pretty raw wasn’t the best move. They came up with this, to my mind, brilliant analogy around half-bakery. Bill, in response to RL:

                      Half baked you say? By that scheme of things, I was only suggesting ingredients that might go in the mixing bowl and hadn’t even thought about pre-heating the oven ffs. Anyway, those new super absorbent mops? They ain’t bad for splattered spillages.

                      I don’t want to imply a negative around their thinking by the use of the term half-baked. The analogy just really clarified for me the, in that case, very large gap in terms of where people were coming from. And knowing that, that we might build some bridges or telegraph systems or something.

                      It also helped me understand where Bill in particular is coming from in ways I hadn’t before.

                      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05012014/#comment-753614

                      Your gaslighting link is broken.

                    • karol

                      My reading of the “abstraction” by Draco that weka was referring to:

                      R& D – it was mentioned in pretty general terms – and, for those of us that don’t know the extent and depth of R & D that goes on, it’s impossible to know whether it would happen as Draco says – I think it’s likely that all R & D is not the same – some of it more likely to be done out of neccessity – some avoided, some may need certain conditions: eg enough people to work on it, with the time, available resources etc.

                    • weka

                      Well if you ask me, the classic example in that thread of miscommunication between myself and Draco is this:

                      Me: Why limit [jobs for unemployed people] to R and D or Arts and Craft?

                      Draco: I, personally, can’t think of any limits to those [R and D or Arts and Craft].

                      I’ve asked one thing, he’s replied to something else (that I didn’t ask about). I still don’t know what he meant (that R/D and A/C would supply all jobs?). It’s like we have subtle but important different versions of the English language. There are other examples where I ask something, and he replies to that specific question, but as if I had said something else. I’m not surprised I gave up soon after.

                    • weka

                      R& D – it was mentioned in pretty general terms – and, for those of us that don’t know the extent and depth of R & D that goes on, it’s impossible to know whether it would happen as Draco says – I think it’s likely that all R & D is not the same – some of it more likely to be done out of neccessity – some avoided, some may need certain conditions: eg enough people to work on it, with the time, available resources etc.

                      I was unclear what was actually meant by R& D in that conversation. The gardening example was interesting. Plenty of gardeners do R & D already, to varying degrees. We could formalise that more and build very useful bodies of knowledge. However not every person on the dole moving into a gardening job is going to want to do R & D as well as part of that job. Maybe they just want to mow lawns listening to music or using that time to think about other things. I guess it depends on how broadly you define R & D.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      I suspect that you don’t like my using the term ‘abstract’, and that we use that term in different ways.

                      Abstract:

                      1. thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances: an abstract idea.
                      2. expressing a quality or characteristic apart from any specific object or instance, as justice, poverty, and speed.
                      3. theoretical; not applied or practical: abstract science.
                      4. difficult to understand; abstruse: abstract speculations.

                      What you have done there is go “you are wrong, I am right” but you haven’t said how you think I am wrong, so I am still none the wiser what you mean (other than that you think I am wrong).

                      You’ve been calling for less abstraction but it is only through abstraction that we can explain our ideas and solutions for a better world quite often because a concrete example doesn’t exist.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Well if you ask me, the classic example in that thread of miscommunication between myself and Draco is this:
                      Me: Why limit [jobs for unemployed people] to R and D or Arts and Craft?

                      Draco: I, personally, can’t think of any limits to those [R and D or Arts and Craft].

                      We were talking about unemployed and in a previous comment I implied that there shouldn’t be any unemployed. We destroy jobs through R&D and that the people thus made unemployed need to be moved into either R&D (or arts & craft) themselves or into jobs that others have vacated to go into R&D (or arts & craft). The only reason why we have unemployment now is to keep wages low (which really is just another indication of how the present system doesn’t work). There are no limits to what can be researched and developed or in art.

                    • weka

                      “You’ve been calling for less abstraction but it is only through abstraction that we can explain our ideas and solutions for a better world quite often because a concrete example doesn’t exist.”

                      Actually, I’ve been calling for more exploration of concretion alongside the abstract. It seems like you see abstract and concete as two discrete things, whereas I see them as a continuum, generally speaking.

                      Plus, the whole baking bowl analogy. If you are still making a shopping list, and I’m sitting at the table to eat, how can we progress a conversation?

                      I don’t want to go into the whole R & D thing with you again tongiht, because as I said I think there is a basic miscommunication, so there doesn’t seem to be much point until that is overcome. Also not really willing to deal with being told I’m wrong that much at the moment unless there is a willingness to explain or acknowledge as well.

                    • @ weka..

                      “..Consumption of dairy doesn’t cause cancer..”

                      yes..yes it does..

                      ..do you need the evidence-links again..?

                      ..and not only cancer..what about the diabetes..?..the strokes..?

                      ..the huge role it plays in obesity..?

                      ..any of this ringing any bells..?

                      ..do you need those evidence-links too..?

                      ..phillip ure..

                    • weka

                      no, no it doesn’t.

                      I have read enough about dairy and health to know that you are grossly misrepresenting science. You can link again if you like, but I suspect that it will just be another search list from your blog, which generally consists of lots of assertion without any evidence. But go on, you might surprise me.

                      Type 2 diabetes is an issue of insulin resistance. Dairy consumption can be a problem for people that are increasingly insulin resistant (because of the milk sugars I think), but it doesn’t ’cause’ diabetes. Many traditional cultures that consume alot of dairy don’t have high rates of diabetes. The only cultures that I am aware of that have high rates of diabetes are those that eat a Western diet or live a Western lifestyle (and there are many factors involved in why those people get insulin resistant, most notably refined carbohydrate consumption).

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Plus, the whole baking bowl analogy. If you are still making a shopping list, and I’m sitting at the table to eat, how can we progress a conversation?

                      Because I, at least, am capable of making a shopping list at the same time as talking. In fact I’ll likely to be asking what you want to eat. Unfortunately, you’re sitting down, banging your knives and forks on the table and demanding dinner.

                      I don’t want to go into the whole R & D thing with you again tongiht, because as I said I think there is a basic miscommunication, so there doesn’t seem to be much point until that is overcome.

                      /facepalm
                      because of a mis-communication I won’t communicate with you

                    • McFlock

                      if the r/t’s broken, there’s no point in continuing to try to use it.

                    • weka

                      “because of a mis-communication I won’t communicate with you”

                      That is NOT what I said. Again, this is an example of us speaking different versions of the same language.

                      Draco, I’ve tried my best to explain how I see things. If you are unwilling to engage in good faith, that’s fine. All I’m hearing from you this evening here is personal disaparagement of me (I’m incapable of thinking, I’m unreasonably demanding something from you, I’m wrong), and virtually nothing in the way of a meeting, so I’ll just leave it there for now.

        • Tracey 4.2.1.2

          Dairy farms were not meant for arid areas. THAT is why the Waimak shouldnt EVER be diverted to farms converted to dairy.

          • weka 4.2.1.2.1

            Yep, you got it. Although I would say there is no good landscape for industrial dairy as it’s done today.

      • Ennui 4.2.2

        Balmoral forest is on the north bank of the Hurunui, in a valley between mountains, on very stony soil that cooks in the summer and freezes in winter. On the basis of animal welfare alone using current dairy practices it is a cruel environment. Cows need warmth and shade, the way we treat our stock in NZ is scandalous.

        I hope this is not the same place proposed. To farm there will require irrigation schemes, damming of the Hurunui has been proposed and opposed regularly.

      • Will@Welly 4.2.3

        The farms – in total 5 – will be ready in 2015 – so I would take it that the trees will be long gone. Then they are to build two big storage reservoirs on site, so in winter they can “harvest” the Waimak and store the extra water for use in summer. The farms will have the highest concentration of cows on the plains. As the sediment under the land there is quite thin, it is expected that there will be some detrimental effects downstream as effluent seeps into the alluvial water, and infects the drinking water of the likes of Christchurch and other towns that lie in the path of the underground waterways. Still, that’s the price we pay for J.K.’s brighter corporatised future.

  5. Morrissey 5

    “To try and make the lives of people better”
    Helen Clark interviewed by Chris Laidlaw, August 2013

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday

    Some of Helen Clark’s statements in this interview are remarkable, considering her actual behaviour while in office. She speaks forthrightly about the Andrea Vance affair, and seems to approve of that particular journalist’s right to act as an investigative journalist: “she had a right to pursue a story and get to the truth as she saw it.” Which will seem odd for those who remember her choleric outbursts against the journalists who tried to penetrate behind her smokescreen of denials and personal attacks as they were attempting to cover her government’s persecution of Ahmed Zaoui. At more than one press conference she angrily shut down Selwyn Manning, the editor of Scoop, refusing to answer any questions from him about the matter.

    Helen Clark’s newly respectful opinion of journalism will be welcome news to John Campbell, who suffered a wrathful public denunciation from Ms Clark after he tried to get her to speak honestly about her government’s ill advised encouragement of GM experiments in this country.

    Ms Clark also states, near the end of the interview, that she used her power and influence “to try and make the lives of people better.” Again, this sits oddly with the facts of her time in power. As well as presiding over the cruel detention of Ahmed Zaoui—it was a team effort, with thugs like David Benson-Pope allying with New Zealand First MPs like Peter Brown and Winston Peters in parliament to yell out crude insults in parliament at the political refugee—she was foolish enough to take the advice of her less-than-brilliant “strategists” after Don Brash’s infamous Orewa speech and imitate National Party racism instead of confronting and rejecting it. And any of the 15,000 Māori land rights protestors she sneeringly dismissed as “haters and wreckers” would be interested to hear that Helen Clark thinks she used her power and influence “to try and make the lives of people better.”.

    This transcript starts at 21:18 and goes to the end (25:34)…..

    CHRIS LAIDLAW: We’ve been talking here,…hrrrumph…. some might say obsessively, about the phenomenon of the surveillance society. Does any of what has been happening here lately over the accessing of private information surprise you?
    HELEN CLARK: I was certainly surprised that, er, Parliamentary Services handed over those records! [guffaw]
    CHRIS LAIDLAW: A heh, heh!
    HELEN CLARK: Ha ha ha! But, errrr…
    CHRIS LAIDLAW: What would you have SAID to them?
    HELEN CLARK: Errrmmmm…
    LAIDLAW: Had that been YOU?
    HELEN CLARK: I think–heh heh—someone would have had to have been holding the phone out rather a long way from their [sic] ear! ….[guffaw]…. I mean, I don’t think this is acceptable, at ALL. ….[pause]…. I mean, err, y’know, journalists have a duty! And that duty is to get out and seek the truth! That journalist broke what in journalistic terms was a pretty good story! Now, it happened to be pretty annoying to the government! Y’know, been there, experienced THAT! ….[guffaw]….. But, ahh, you know she had a right to pursue a story and get to the truth as she saw it.
    LAIDLAW: Were you aware of that Defence Force manual that stated that investigative journalists could be lumped in with a lot of other undesirable people?
    HELEN CLARK: [guffaws] I’m certain I never SAW such a thing! Huh! I would have found it rather extraordinary.
    LAIDLAW: Did you ever sign a warrant for covert surveillance of a New Zealand citizen?
    HELEN CLARK: [cagily] Wellllll, as reported on every yeeeear, in the annual report, uh …. [uncomfortable caesura]…. Yes I did sign warrants!
    LAIDLAW: Mmmm, hmmm…
    HELEN CLARK: Yep! And they were all, ahh, referred to and counted up in the Annual Report to Parliament every year.
    LAIDLAW: And you’re convinced that they were absolutely justifiable?

    …….[Significant pause]….

    HELEN CLARK: [carefully] I aaaaam. Because one of the systems that was put in place and was at the time when the SIS legislation was amended in the late nineties when I was Leader of the Opposition, was this Inspector of Security Warrants, errrr, Sir John Jeffries, through my time as prime minister. I had a HUUUUUUGE respect for John Jeffries and whenever the SIS wanted a warrant, they didn’t come first to me—[guffaw]—I was a BUSY PERSON! They went first to Sir John Jeffries, and Sir John Jeffries went into the offices, into the files, could access EVERYTHING he wanted to see, and then he came with the Director of Security Intelligence to see me, and he would set out the issues as he saw them. And together we would make a decision. So there was a LOT OF CARE taken with that.
    LAIDLAW: Isn’t the most serious effect of some of this the erosion of public confidence in the organs of the state? We’ve been seeing a lot of pressure on various departments lately, MFAT and others, but revelations of this kind really do make people wonder about whether the state is on their side.
    HELEN CLARK: They doooo! And it’s partly an issue of not knowing what you don’t know. But I think that, given that in this whole fracas, there appears, if we take the Kitteridge Report as the guide here, that there WAS a gap in the law. Now something has to be done about the gap in the law, BUT…. at the same time I think it’s an opportunity to have a, y’know, broooooader dialogue about the kind of protections New Zealand citizens are entitled to and one would hope that that would come through this sort of process.

    ….[Pause]…..

    LAIDLAW: A lot of people talk about the nature of power, and you’ve had it, and you have it, and you experienced it. Do you understand it? Do you have a better understanding now of what it represents?
    HELEN CLARK: I think that power as a concept is neutral. You can use power for good ends or you can use it for bad ends. I like to think that I used the power and influence I had in my life in New Zealand and now at UNDP to try and, y’ow, make the lives of people, errr, BETTER. That was my mission. So I think it can be used for GOOD but it can can also be used for ILL.
    LAIDLAW: Nice to talk to you! And I hope you enjoy your time here. That was former prime minister Helen Clark, who is these days leading the UN Development Program, and her book At the UN is published by Dunmore Publishing.

    • chrs 4 that morrissy..

      ..i tried listening to this interview..

      ..but the exercise in self-justification/glossing-over from/by clark..

      ..was giving me serious gastric-reflux..

      (..i had to turn back to music..my salve at times like that..)

      ..did she dare to say anything about poverty..?

      phillip ure..

    • Ennui 5.2

      Hello Morrissey, good work.

    • Lanthanide 5.3

      This time Morrissey actually seems to have gotten the words about right. But as usual, he’s adding extraneous punctuation and emphasis on words, as well as his usual bullshit “Significant pause” crap so as to distort what actually happened.

      • Te Reo Putake 5.3.1

        Yep, better than average effort, only a few errors and really only spoilt by the distortions of meaning that his spin puts on the words. Kinda hypocritical to demand of others standards he doesn’t apply to himself, but that’s our Moz. 6/10.

        • Morrissey 5.3.1.1

          Listen to the tape, then come back and tell us where I distorted anything.

          Anything.

          And where were the “couple of errors”?

          • Te Reo Putake 5.3.1.1.1

            Already did listen to the tape, Moz, hence my comment that you got it mostly correct. Well done. If you want to find the errors, which are mostly small ommisions, then go back over it yourself.

            The distortion is adding emphasis were no emphasis can be heard. That’s not reporting, that’s editorialising. It’s bogus if you are calling it a transcript. As I said, you demand standards of others you don’t apply to yourself.

            • Morrissey 5.3.1.1.1.1

              ….mostly correct. Well done.
              No, it was completely correct.

              If you want to find the errors, which are mostly small ommisions [sic] then go back over it yourself.
              So you couldn’t find one small “ommision” then. But you’re happy to carry on with the baseless claim.

              The distortion is adding emphasis were no emphasis can be heard.
              For example?

              That’s not reporting, that’s editorialising.
              No, it’s reporting. Pointing out that Helen Clark was cagey and diffident and awkward when asked whether or not she set her spies onto New Zealand citizens is not distortion, as you say, but reporting. It’s quite clear that you think reporters should simply be megaphones for politicians. You don’t like their words being emphasized and underlined: that’s your problem. You are plainly wrong when you try to insinuate there’s something misleading about pointing out the obvious discomfort of a politician.

              It’s bogus if you are calling it a transcript.
              So you want just the words, without any colour, without any bringing out of nuances that are often contained in a hesitation or a slightly irritated tone of voice? Please put up your bald transcript of those four minutes—and we’ll see which one is more true to the nature of that conversation.

              As I said, you demand standards of others you don’t apply to yourself.
              More empty personal insults. Can I remind you: this is not an LEC meeting, and I don’t get intimidated or confused by your strategy of abuse.

              • Te Reo Putake

                Again with the slander, moz? You’re a sad wee man.

                • Morrissey

                  So you don’t behave at LEC meetings in the same way you behave on this forum? Okay, we’ll take your word for it.

                  As they say in parliament, I withdraw and apologize.

              • felix

                “So you want just the words, without any colour, without any bringing out of nuances that are often contained in a hesitation or a slightly irritated tone of voice? “

                That’s pretty much the definition of a transcript.

                • Tracey

                  Thats what we get from the Court. The time the initials of the speaker and the words.

                  • Morrissey

                    Thats what we get from the Court. The time the initials of the speaker and the words.
                    That’s why we depend on honest reporters to bring out the nuances and inflexions that the bare transcripts leave out.

                    • Tracey

                      hmmmm. I use the transcript and the audio. You are right that how someone says something matters, but that ius why I read and audio.

                  • freedom

                    when the courts actually let you see the transcripts that is :(

                    • Tracey

                      I get that but they release ones to parties, that is the context I get them in.

                    • freedom

                      Tracey, It has been my experience that when it comes to the courts, ‘parties’ seems not to include the victim.

                      So crumbled the cookie of justice into the teacup of disillusion.

                    • TRacey

                      Yes you are right if by victim you mean in criminal cases? That’s wrong of course and transcripts ought to be readily available. The police prosecution service ought to be cooperative in the supply though? Or are they so budget conscious they wont pay for the extra copy?

                      I deal with civil matters btw.

                • Morrissey

                  “So you want just the words, without any colour, without any bringing out of nuances that are often contained in a hesitation or a slightly irritated tone of voice? “

                  That’s pretty much the definition of a transcript.

                  Yes, you’re correct there, felix. That’s why my enhanced transripts, and even my more imperfect slapdash efforts scribbled on a piece of paper, are better than a bald transcription of the words. It would be highly misleading, for instance, to not mention that Helen Clark was uncomfortable and hesitant when pressed on the subject of whether she set her spies onto New Zealand citizens.

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    ‘Enhanced’ transcript.

                    So your efforts relate to real transcripts in the way enhanced interrogation techniques relate to lawful questioning? Good to know.

                    • Morrissey

                      False analogy. I’m not surprised.

                      By the way, I’m guessing that you support “enhanced interrogation”. Am we correct in surmising that?

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      That’s twice today you’ve used the royal pronoun, Moz. You’re not related to that German woman on our money, are you?

                    • sockpuppet

                      Really Morrissey I don’t know why you bother trying to educate TRP he appears to be a rather nasty little bigot and bully boy who is unable to widen his thought processes beyond his own little clique’s list of what is good and what is bad.

                      I’m also not sure why he’s desperate to suggest Liz Windsor is German .. unless it’s some poor imitation of a Fawlty Towers joke that I’m missing ?

                  • Morrissey

                    TE REO OUTAKE: That’s twice today you’ve used the royal pronoun, Moz.
                    MORRISSEY: It’s a common propaganda trick—but you were alert to it. Well spotted, Te Reo!
                    TE REO PUTAKE: You’re not related to that German woman on our money, are you?

                    ….[Uncomfortable pause]….

                    MORRISSEY: [carefully] Errrrr, as far as I know, no-o-o-o-o. If I wasn’t fearful that it was a Mormon site, I might be tempted to check it on the ancestry.com site.

                    • Morrissey

                      Really Morrissey I don’t know why you bother trying to educate TRP he appears to be a rather nasty little bigot and bully boy who is unable to widen his thought processes beyond his own little clique’s list of what is good and what is bad.

                      Thanks, sockpuppet, I do appreciate your solicitude. Te Reo is a buddy of mine. He dishes it out to this writer, i.e. moi, fearsomely at times, but he is also kind and supportive at other times. A diamond geezer, he is—as they say in the East End.

                      I’m also not sure why he’s desperate to suggest Liz Windsor is German .. unless it’s some poor imitation of a Fawlty Towers joke that I’m missing ?
                      I think he meant this German woman….
                      http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Dominatrix.jpg

                    • sockpuppet

                      Thanks for the clarification Morrissey I didn’t realise you were indulging in a grumpy old man double act, although I’m not sure if my reading of TRPs comments in the tone of Ginger Rodgers will make them any less ludicrous.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      ‘grumpy old man double act’

                      The Statler and Waldorf of teh blogs? No, Moz and I are actually the same person. We’ve been having this bipolar, duopolist dialogue since June 1984, only days after Al Gore invented the web. Moz corrected Al on his proposed name for the internet (we felt that it obviously should be the elegant ‘bittube’, rather than the cheap, brutalist Americanism of ‘the web’). I publicly disagreed with myself (mozself?) on an embryonic board and an institution was born. We’re sorry if this has led to any confusion, or indeed, contusions.

                      ps, the Windsors are German. They changed their name from the original Wettin a century ago for PR purposes.

                      http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=90

                    • Morrissey

                      …the Windsors are German. They changed their name from the original Wettin a century ago for PR purposes.

                      http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=90

                      Here’s another great British/German royalty-themed cover from 1985…
                      http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=615

                    • sockpuppet

                      To say that Liz Windsor is German is a bit of a stretch. She’s probably no more German than you or I.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestry_of_Elizabeth_II

                      Fascinating that you are one and the same person – it really does make me all the more in awe of Morrissey being able to write so beautifully under his own name as distinct from his efforts under the TRP pseudonym.

                    • Morrissey

                      Fascinating that you are one and the same person – it really does make me all the more in awe of Morrissey being able to write so beautifully under his own name as distinct from his efforts under the TRP pseudonym.

                      Thanks for that my friend. I turn into Te Reo Putake whenever I want to write something really horrible.

                      :grin: :grin: :grin: :roll:

                      Next I might try being Garth Gaga George….

                    • fender

                      Have you consigned Professor Longhair to the scrapheap? :wink:

                    • Morrissey

                      Our good friend “fender” asks: Have you consigned Professor Longhair to the scrapheap?

                      The Professor wrote to me the other day. He is on “sabbatical”* in Eastern Europe somewhere. He extends to all Standardisti the very best wishes for the New Year.

                      * Colloquially known as “on the run”.

                    • fender

                      I don’t think they’ll catch up with him

                    • TRacey

                      Louis Mount Batten was born Prince of Battenburg, changed during world war one cos of german dislike in England. Mount Btten ws Prince Philip’s uncle

                      Saying she is no more German than you or I is a little spurious given she is only Queen by virtue of those who came before, some of whom in this case were German. Her Great Grandfather Albert was German, so that’s an 8th German right there.

                    • sockpuppet

                      That’s great great grandfather ….. and a good chap as far as that family goes by all accounts.

      • Morrissey 5.3.2

        This time Morrissey actually seems to have gotten the words about right.
        I got it exactly right, my friend. Exactly. I was careful to even include Ms Clark’s little verbal tics, like the repeated use of y’ow and her frequent guffawing, which is a control mechanism par excellence.

        But as usual, he’s adding extraneous punctuation and emphasis on words,
        “Extraneous”? I challenge you to put up ONE example of where my punctuation is extraneous or misleading, and where I have emphasized a word inappropriately.

        ….as well as his usual bullshit “Significant pause” crap so as to distort what actually happened.
        There were several significant, awkward, uncomfortable pauses when Laidlaw pressed her on whether she had set the dogs onto New Zealand citizens. They were significant, all right, and you know it.

        My “stage directions” are intended, as always, to emphasize and clarify, and to evoke the flavour and nature of the conversation. They are not intended to distort, as you allege.

        • Lanthanide 5.3.2.1

          Because I have some time, and because you’re so much in denial, I figured I’d bother to answer these questions.

          “We’ve been talking here,…hrrrumph…. some might say obsessively,”
          This “hrrumph” is unwarranted, as it was a very brief mumbled pause before he continued on. Recording this as “hrrumph” has negative connotations that are not warranted.

          “I mean, err, y’know, journalists have a duty! And that duty is to get out and seek the truth! That journalist broke what in journalistic terms was a pretty good story! Now, it happened to be pretty annoying to the government!”
          None of these exclamation marks are warranted.

          “[cagily] Wellllll, as reported on every yeeeear, in the annual report, uh …. [uncomfortable caesura]…. Yes I did sign warrants!”
          It wasn’t cagey, you’ve added unnecessary emphasis on “Well” and “year” that implies she was reluctantly answering the question when there is no reluctance in her voice at all. I don’t think “caesura” is the correct term here and there was certianly nothing uncomfortable about it. Once again, an unwarranted exclamation mark.

          “Yep!”
          Another unwarranted exclamation mark.

          …….[Significant pause]….
          This pause at 22:48 is shorter than one marked merely “[pause]” at 24:40-24:42. Furthermore there is nothing significant, nor indeed apparently deliberate in the very brief pause here at all. It’s a natural part of speech after someone has asked a question in a new direction on the topic at hand.

          “I aaaaam.”
          She said “am”.

          “I had a HUUUUUUGE respect”
          She said “huge”.

          “I was a BUSY PERSON!”
          Exclamation mark appropriate, but capitalisation is not. This makes it appear like she’s being defensive when there is nothing defensive about this conversation at all.

          “and he would set out the issues as he saw them.”
          No idea why you chose to embolden ‘as he saw them’ in your first transcript.

          “So there was a LOT OF CARE taken with that.”
          Inappropriate emphasis on “lot of care” not present in the audio.

          “They doooo!”
          She said “do”. Again, inappropriate exclamation mark.

          “broooooader dialogue”
          She said “broader”. Again not sure why you choose to embolden this.

          The entire section between your “significant pause” and “pause” markers actually under-transcribes Helen’s stammering and filler sounds, and for a strict transcripts as you are claiming this is, you actually miss a few words out entirely around these parts.

          • Morrissey 5.3.2.1.1

            Awesome analysis, Lanthanide! I do have some disagreements, but I haven’t got the time to answer now. I’ll make a feature of it on tomorrow’s Open Mike (for January 7th).

            Sorry, but I have to go now.

          • QoT 5.3.2.1.2

            But it’s ~enhanced~, Lanth. Like all propaganda.

    • Tim 5.4

      I have to say …. Helen probably would have been a lot better off withOUT her various ‘advisers’ – the ‘long termers’ probably responsible for the biggest fuckups she ever made.

    • SHG (not Colonial Viper) 5.5

      How much NZ property does Clark own while a non-NZ resident again?

      • lprent 5.5.1

        You mean that Peter Davis and her *both* own – right? I hadn’t noticed Peter leaving his job at Auckland Uni. They just rotate holidays and visits. Perhaps you should look at the requirements of being a “resident”.

        While you’re at it look at a mirror to see what fatuous dickhead looks like.

  6. Ron 6

    An article worth reading from Steven Ward professor of sociology at WCU http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/2013/10/02/a-machiavellian-guide-to-destroying-public-universities-in-12-easy-steps/
    I am trying to work out which step Joyce and his cohort have reached. It certainly sounds familiar.

  7. Philj 7

    Xox
    Dairy cows on the Canterbury Plains + Irrigation = pollution of water
    I see there was recently another e coli outbreak in township Darfield water supply. Fonterra has recently built a mega processing plant in the area.

  8. just heard a brilliant interview on nat-rad..

    ..on the advances in knowledge on how our brains actually work..(using mri etc..)

    ..and what stood out was the evidence of the actual physical benefits to the brain/psyche from either regular religious-practices..prayer/chanting..

    ..or from the secular practice of meditation..

    ..we are told these practices physically strengthen areas of our brains…that make us feel/do good..

    ..and help protect us from things that make us feel bad..anxieties..etc..

    ..they increase empathy..and strengthen our synapses..which..makes pratitioners think much faster..than those who don’t..(and going on the evidence presented..much much faster..)

    fascinating stuff..that should appeal to all..

    ..and secularists have the meditation-tool to turn to..

    ..(i’m gonna link to/write it up later..when it comes online..

    ..the radio nz website will also have it for you..

    ..and seriously..!..a recommended-listen..

    ..(i love it when science proves ‘things’..eh..?..it so settles arguments..sometimes..)

    ..phillip ure..

    • Ron 9.1

      Sorry I must have missed something, what did it prove?

      ..(i love it when science proves ‘things’..eh..?..it so settles arguments..sometimes..)

      • phillip ure 9.1.1

        go listen to the interview..ron..

        phillip ure..

        • Zorr 9.1.1.1

          Because interviews are sooooooo peer-reviewed science papers…

          Feel free to link to the evidence. In fact, I implore you to, for once, link to some evidence that is outside your inane ramblings…

          • phillip ure 9.1.1.1.1

            @ zorr..

            ..here is the interview..

            http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/summernoelle/audio/2581774/dr-rick-hanson-rewiring-happiness

            what i refer to in the above comment that you sneer at..

            ..is the response to a question from the interviewer..(in the second half of the interview..(but the preceeding stuff is pretty interesting too..)

            ..where she asks hanson if his physical-research had shown any difference between the brains of people who followed daily religious-practises..(praying/chanting)..

            ..and for the secularists..the likes of meditation/yoga..

            ..and those people who practise none of those..

            ..the question surprised hanson..which made his answer seem all the more credible..the surprise he expressed at his findings in this area..was genuine..and not part of any prepared script..

            ..the daily practice seems to be a key factor..

            ..but the striking benefits cited by hanson..if this mri-based evidence is to be believed..and it is hard to see why it should not..

            ..is that these multi-faceted benefits are to hand for both the religious/secularists..

            ..so it is not a religious-barrow that is being pushed..

            ..it is evidence/proof of helping mental-health/well-being..

            ..what is to hate on about that..?

            ..was it something i said..?

            phillip ure..

            • Zorr 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Firstly, if I may apologize. I should have been more diplomatic with my wording and what I said was very… abrupt.

              You are the very embodiment, it seems, of trying to tell people either that the way they are living is the least perfect or that they could be doing things more perfectly. If it was just a link of “here is cool science, what do you think” then it would be much more palatable but you present it in a manner that provokes a personal response (intentionally or unintentionally) from the likes of myself where I severely dislike being preached at.

              Especially on extremely borderline topics such as nutrition and spirituality.

          • weka 9.1.1.1.2

            “Because interviews are sooooooo peer-reviewed science papers…

            Feel free to link to the evidence. In fact, I implore you to, for once, link to some evidence that is outside your inane ramblings…”

            Zorr, the things that phil claimed (as far as I could understand it) are not really in dispute and have been well tested by science. In this situation peer-reviewed papers are not even necessary. Neuroscientists speaking or writing about it from a place of knowledge and authority would do.

            Peer-review is important. It’s also flawed esp with regards to medical research. Saying that it’s the gold standard to the exclusion of other knowlege bases is a way of making science elitist. Then a whole bunch of scientists start complaining about the public being ignorant ;-)

            All that btw is not an endorsement of the RNZ piece, I haven’t looked at it yet.

            • weka 9.1.1.1.2.1

              here’s the science page link on the interviewee’s website.

              http://www.wisebrain.org/science

              • karol

                Trying to find the actual science, following the links via that page, weka, I end up here.

                I studied a bit of neurology way back, when I trained in special education etc. Back then it was pretty well known that all kinds of experiences enhanaced brain activity, could get parts working to a greater or less extent following brain damage…. music and dance therapy can be good too.

                It doesn’t surprise me that meditation etc, or reading novels has a positive impact on the brain.

      • phillip ure 9.2.1

        @karol..yes i saw that one..

        ..but surely it is not either/or..?

        ..just do both..

        ..phillip ure..

        • karol 9.2.1.1

          There are many ways to get the brain working, and in diverse ways. This is not revolutionary.

          • phillip ure 9.2.1.1.1

            it is actually ‘revolutionary’..karol..

            ..did you even listen to the interview..?

            ..or are you making this pronouncement from a position of ignorance/unheard..?..

            ..does the ‘religious’ aspect of it scare you..?

            ..relax..!

            ..secular-practices such as t.m/meditation/yoga – will do the same thing for you..

            this is what i found ‘revolutionary’..both that and the proof/evidence of (visible) physical-strengthenings in the brain..

            ..were you not impressed by that..?

            ..or is yr sneer from a fists-stuffed-in-ears-position..?

            ..is yr dismissal basically an orifice-pluck..?

            ..and you haven’t even listened to what you so easily dismissed..?

            ..really..?

            phillip ure..

            • karol 9.2.1.1.1.1

              Mate, I said I have learned a fair bit about neurology in the past, and ways to improve the brain and, related body functionings – ways that alter the physical make up of the brain. So I just don’t find it at all surprising that mediation etc physically strengthens the brain. Not that revolutionary a finding to me.

              • ok..so you haven’t…heh..!

                ..you already ‘know it all’..eh..?..and with this ‘knowledge’ you have..

                ..and if you already ‘know’ what these new findings are..

                do you put it to practical use in yr own life..?

                ..do you even know what i am talking about..?

                ..and….is this the only area where there is nothing left for you to know..?

                ..carry on..!

                phillip ure..

  9. captain hook 10

    Its official:
    wail boil is “COLLECTING” the s.l.a.
    what a guy!

  10. Pete 11

    What happened to the post on Garth George? Down the memory hole?

  11. Tracey 12

    “Seduced into evil

    In fact, the classic electric shock experiment by social psychologist Stanley Milgram, PhD, showed that when given an order by someone in authority, people would deliver what they believed to be extreme levels of electrical shock to other study participants who answered questions incorrectly.

    Zimbardo said the experiment provides several lessons about how situations can foster evil:

    Provide people with an ideology to justify beliefs for actions.

    Make people take a small first step toward a harmful act with a minor, trivial action and then gradually increase those small actions.

    Make those in charge seem like a “just authority.”

    Transform a once compassionate leader into a dictatorial figure.

    Provide people with vague and ever-changing rules.

    Relabel the situation’s actors and their actions to legitimize the ideology.

    Provide people with social models of compliance.

    Allow dissent, but only if people continue to comply with orders.

    Make exiting the situation difficult.”

    http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct04/goodbad.aspx

  12. Puckish Rogue 13

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/9577985/Minnows-need-to-beware-the-elephants

    Or maybe Obama likes to play golf and gets on well at a personal level with Key and since both were in Hawaii why not have a game? I think the dompost is clutching at straws.

  13. Morrissey 14

    Next time you hear someone praise Abe Lincoln, bring out this article….

    “Ordered that of the Indians and Half-breeds sentenced to be hanged by the military commission, composed of Colonel Crooks, Lt. Colonel Marshall, Captain Grant, Captain Bailey, and Lieutenant Olin, and lately sitting in Minnesota, you cause to be executed on Friday the nineteenth day of December, instant, the following names, to wit [39 names listed by case number of record: cases 2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 19, 22, 24, 35, 67, 68, 69, 70, 96, 115, 121, 138, 155, 170, 175, 178, 210, 225, 254, 264, 279, 318, 327, 333, 342, 359, 373, 377, 382, 383].

    The other condemned prisoners you will hold subject to further orders, taking care that they neither escape, nor are subjected to any unlawful violence.

    Abraham Lincoln,
    President of the United States”

    On December 6 (1862) President Lincoln notified Sibley that he should “cause to be executed” thirty-nine of the 303 convicted Santees, Execution date was the 26th of December. At the last minute, one Indian was given a reprieve. About ten o’clock the thirty-eight condemned men were marched from the prison to the scaffold. They sang the Sioux death song until soldiers pulled white caps over their heads and placed nooses around their necks. At a signal from an army officer, the control rope was cut and thirty-eight Santee Sioux dangled lifeless in the air.

    A spectator boasted that this was “America’s greatest public execution.”

    Read more…..
    http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/hanging.html

  14. Adele 15

    Kiaora Saarbo

    Prejudice much?

    Iwi Maori farming practice has evolved to align more closely with our cultural and spiritual values represented in the principle of ‘kaitiakitanga.’ Our people have never wholly accepted the commodification of the natural world and the subsequent rape of its resources to fuel profit and greed. Our business leaders are unlearning traditional business thinking and taking on board quadruple, or more, bottom-lines. If you had bothered to investigate further with a simple Google search you would have found this:

    The Eyrewell farming development is 40km northwest of Christchurch and sits within the takiwā (tribal area) of Ngāi Tahu hapu (sub-tribe), Ngāi Tūāhuriri. Ngāi Tahu Farming began dairy farming on the site in 2012.

    The Mana Whenua Working Party is made up of members of Ngāi Tahu hapu who hold mana whenua (authority) over the Hurunui and Waimakariri River catchments associated with Ngāi Tahu Farming’s Eyrewell and Balmoral developments.

    Cultural and environmental aspirations have been the top priorities for mana whenua, says Ngāi Tūāhuriri Chair and member of the Mana Whenua Working Party, Clare Williams.

    “Our main concern is nutrient levels in waterways. We don’t want our farms to adversely affect our waterways because that’s where we get our kai from,” says Clare.

    The environmental monitoring of Ngāi Tahu Eyrewell Dairy Farms will involve direct measurements of nitrate leaching losses. Lysimeters (large tubes containing undisturbed columns of soil) will be used to measure the nitrate leaching loss in drainage water. The lysimeters will be installed in an on-farm facility on farm one. This facility will be constructed within a monitor paddock on the dairy farm. The facility will also serve as an on-farm laboratory suitable for visitors to inspect.

    Ngāi Tahu Property Chief Executive Tony Sewell says the research is forward-thinking and will allow us to better manage our farming businesses.

    “We are pleased to be teaming up with the expertise of Lincoln University. The research will give us valuable and accurate insight into the impact we are having on the environment. Understanding our impact will help us to make educated farming decisions to minimize the movement of harmful contaminants, it will ensure we are at the forefront of dairying and that we are doing our best to uphold Ngāi Tahu values,” says Tony.

    The biodiversity programme will protect and expand vegetation remnants within the farms and enhance the future trajectory of the ecological restoration. More than 150 hectares is already set-aside for native plants and animals. This project will provide a template for establishment, monitoring and enhancement of native habitats, focussing on the ecological and environmental benefits of restoration planting. The goal is to add value to the Ngāi Tahu Farming development at Eyrewell, which will provide a template for dairy farms in the future.

    In my neck of the woods we have recently retired over 500 ha of farm land to be replanted in both natives and exotic trees. It took 170 plus years to have the lands returned to us under the treaty settlement process. These lands will never be sold off and therefore our farming practices must reflect sustainable methods way into the future.

    • Te Reo Putake 15.1

      Thanks for the explanation, Adele. I think you owe Saarbo an apology. There’s no obvious prejudice in his comment that I can see and even if the owners minimise the damage done, damage will still be done. Big dairying is bad, no matter who does it.

      • Adele 15.1.1

        Te Reo Putake

        I owe Saarbo diddly squat. What’s with the “ I bet it ends up employing lots and lots of Philipino workers” line? Tell me what Māori farm currently does this? Actually for that matter what farm in NZ employs Philippine workers?

        Dairying is a fact of life in this country and while tangata whenua would prefer not to be involved in such industries we are committed to making these industries work for us in a way that is sustainable in the long run and aligns with our values.

        • Te Reo Putake 15.1.1.1

          “What’s with the “ I bet it ends up employing lots and lots of Philipino workers” line?”

          Um, filipino workers make up a significant number of migrant labour being used and abused on our farms, Adele. Google it.

          You owe Saarbo an apology.

        • weka 15.1.1.2

          “Dairying is a fact of life in this country and while tangata whenua would prefer not to be involved in such industries we are committed to making these industries work for us in a way that is sustainable in the long run and aligns with our values.”

          As I said below, I don’t believe the industrial/export dairy model can ever be sustainable, but it’s good to see changes being attempted. However, I do also wonder at how often Maori are expected to not use their resources for their own people in the ways that Pakeha do, and are supposed to somehow magic up a new, perfect model of doing pretty much everything in ways that satisfy Pakeha notions of what’s ok. Despite Pakeha not even coming close to their own ideals.

    • Ennui 15.2

      Adele, I hope that Ngai Tahu can make this a beacon of hope on the Plains. Myself, knowing what I do of the soils, geography and climate have little faith that there can be any success within the current economic framework of dairying: I would welcome being proved wrong.

      Good news on regaining and retiring land: I see returning land to iwi / hapu as one of the most important strategies we can adopt for both social equity and to save/Aotearoa from foreign ownership,

      • Morrissey 15.2.1

        Listening to those Ngai Tahu spokesmen talking, both recently and in the past, I dread what they have planned or will consent to having done on their land. They sound like, and often are, members of the National Party, and they seem to have about as much respect and care for their whenua as, say, Conor English.

        • marty mars 15.2.1.1

          As a member of the iwi I am not a supporter of this development. However there are a lot of checks and many eyes watching so i think the iwi and hapū representatives will do their best to minimise pollution from the dairy farm. But when you take water from the awa for dairy farming that degrades it. Personally I would have preferred Organic small scale sustainable operations – and I actually told them that.

          As for you moz yes I’m sure they are members of any and all political parties but your assertion regarding care of the ‘whenua’ is stupid – you ‘seem’ wrong and rather than ‘seem’ why not check out all of the various ways the tikanga is maintained. You seem to display as much care and respect for tangata whenua as any of the gnats.

          • Morrissey 15.2.1.1.1

            I’m sure they are members of any and all political parties….
            The leadership? They’re solidly National Party. Which raises the question: why does the rest of the iwi tolerate such a situation?

            The Ngai Tahu corporation hasn’t shown much care or respect for the Asian crews on the fishing boats they run. Let’s hope they treat their own people with a bit more aroha.

            • marty mars 15.2.1.1.1.1

              you are out of our depth moz and dog-paddle ain’t going to cut it – the leadership? who exactly are you talking about – rūnanga representatives? kaiwhakahaere? commercial arm of the iwi? Stick to listening to leighton mate or talking about the RWC – you sadly display no nous for this stuff – read up a little and become educated my friend before you embarrass yourself further :)

              • Morrissey

                …you are out of our depth moz

                No I’m not out of my depth. I can read and follow what is happening in Ngai Tahu as much as anyone else can, and it’s clear that a small clique of well connected businessmen wield the power there just as a small National Party clique (Georgina Te Heuheu’s family) dominates Ngāti Tūwharetoa, and a small political elite dominates Tainui.

                There are many reasons I, and many others, have looked with mounting disquiet at what Ngai Tahu has been doing….

                1.) Its involvement in the brutal mistreatment of overseas fishing crews…..
                http://www.dol.govt.nz/News/Media/2012/2012-foreign-charter-vessels.pdf

                2.) I’m concerned by the people who are routinely allowed to speak for Ngai Tahu—people like Mark Solomon, who has some very disturbing views indeed. For example, in 2010 he expressed his approval of the notorious private prison company Serco, telling Guyon Espiner that he was “blown away in the way that they deal with their prisoners…. We’re completely impressed.”
                http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/q-mark-solomon-interview-3580452

                3.) Worse was to come, however. A couple of years ago, Solomon made a point of betraying other Māori and publicly backing John Key’s flogging off of our public assets. As with his backing of private prisons, this anti-Māori posturing earned Solomon some fulsome praise from the rabid right….
                http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/tag/mark-solomon/

                4.) In 2012, Shane Taurima keelhauled Solomon for his craven behaviour in a memorable televised interrogation….
                http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1210/S00338/qa-shane-taurima-interviews-mark-solomon.htm

                5.) Solomon has also been less than forthright in his denials that he might commit Ngai Tahu to get involved in one of John Banks’s harebrained “charter school” projects.

                Now if you can demonstrate I have been unfair to Mark Solomon—the public face of Ngai Tahu—then I will accept your charge that I have “no nous for this stuff”, and will return to my normal dismal task of logging the idiocy of Hatin’ Leighton and his colleagues.

                By the way, I’ll bet that at some time in the last few years, Hatin’ Leighton has stepped away from his normal programme of reading out articles from the Spectator and foaming about Barack Obama’s communist plotting to take over the world to announce how much he is impressed by Mark Solomon.

                • enjoy every sandwich

                  thanks for the info, morrissey

                • Yes some like Mark and others don’t and yes he is kaiwhakahaere and that role is often the public face of the iwi. I find myself disagreeing with many of his views. I don’t like the way the fishing has developed – too much ‘market’, let alone the poor condition that some crew experience. I don’t like serco or charter schools or selling our assets. So for each example you have dug out I am generally opposed to Mark’s view. Keep trawling the news moz I am sure your knowledge will continue to increase exponentially…

                  My attempt at humour at 1.22 was obviously not funny for you – next time I’ll put 2 smiley faces…

                  • Morrissey

                    I’m sorry, marty, I did get your little joke and I did appreciate it at the time. You know, deadpan non-acknowledgement is my modus operandi; one of the reasons I can hardly bear listening to Jim Mora’s program sometimes is the way that he feels obliged to acknowledge every single quip with a dutiful “That’s very funny!”—rendered all the worse by his patent insincerity. So I did get your little dig.

                    I appreciate your comments, and I hope it doesn’t look like I’m absolutely opposed to Sir Mark; I recognise that he is an intelligent and accomplished man, and I respect him in spite of some misgivings. It’s just that I get concerned sometimes that there is a lack of democracy and that the iwi corporations are acting just like the “private tyrannies” that Noam Chomsky describes.

                    • weka

                      I don’t know the Chomsky reference, but it’s the ‘just like’ bit in your comment that I have a problem with. There may be issues with how Ngai Tahu does business, but saying they are the same as Pakeha business is inaccurate and stops us really understanding. I want to see the differences, understand the diversity, because that will help us out of the mess.

                      This is the problem with the original comment. Someone reports that RNZ reported x about Ngai Tahu. When we see Adele’s comment we see there is in fact a lot more to it. That more to it is important. Seems to be my theme currently, we have to get our targets right.

                    • Morrissey

                      I don’t know the Chomsky reference, but it’s the ‘just like’ bit in your comment that I have a problem with. There may be issues with how Ngai Tahu does business, but saying they are the same as Pakeha business is inaccurate and stops us really understanding.

                      Fair comment, weka.

                      By the way, here’s Chomsky talking about private tyrannies, AKA corporations…
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmrfWF3S4Tk

                      If you’ve got a couple of hours to spare…
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTuawY8Qnz8

                    • All good – I broke my own, self imposed, rule on that one and deserved a good put down. For me ts isn’t really a safe space to discuss this stuff and i usually leave alone unless the errors are really glaring or horrible. The fact is there is no context and to create the context and then discuss/argue the merits each way takes massive time and energy – which frankly i don’t have and don’t have the inclination to acquire.

                • weka

                  Morrisey,

                  By public face, I take it you mean to Pakeha NZ. Why exactly should Kai Tahu care about that?

                  How about you give us your analysis of how Solomon fits into the overall power structures within Ngai Tahu?

                  Most of what you just wrote expresses Pakeha political views. Are you suggesting that Maori, specifically Ngai Tahu, should adhere to those?

                  Solomon is one person (and we still don’t know who he votes for). Who are all these other leaders who are National Party members/voters?

                  • Morrissey

                    Morrisey, By public face, I take it you mean to Pakeha NZ.
                    I’m sure most people, whether Māori or Pakeha, regard Sir Mark Solomon as the leader of Kai Tahu, just as they did Tipene O’Regan before him.

                    Why exactly should Kai Tahu care about that?
                    If Kai Tahu wants to pretend that public discourse and politics do not matter, then you’re correct, they need not worry about the public perception of Sir Mark’s comments. If they want to live in the real world, such things matter very much indeed.

                    How about you give us your analysis of how Solomon fits into the overall power structures within Ngai Tahu?
                    He is obviously the kaiwhakahaere, and I know he has an immense amount of influence on all aspects of governance in Kai Tahu.

                    Most of what you just wrote expresses Pakeha political views.
                    That’s not correct. I know thoughtful Māori are very concerned about the behaviour of certain powerful but virtually unaccountable leaders—and not just in Kai Tahu.

                    Are you suggesting that Maori, specifically Ngai Tahu, should adhere to those?
                    Some Ngai Tahu will, some won’t. But it’s not just a Pakeha thing—-I hope not anyway.

                    Solomon is one person (and we still don’t know who he votes for).
                    Let’s see: he has publicly stated his admiration for an infamous private prison company; he has broken ranks with other Māori and announced his support for the Key regime’s selling off of our public assets; he has failed to make a principled statement rejecting the National/ACT imposition of “charter schools” on the devastated children, parents and teachers of Canterbury. That spells National, surely? Or if he does not vote National, there are two other options: (a) he belongs to the Shane Jones wing of the Labour Party or (b) he has been lobotomized and has joined the science-deniers, doctor-bashers and grave-robbers in ACT.

                    Who are all these other leaders who are National Party members/voters?
                    The iwi leaderships are full of them.

                    • weka

                      “Most of what you just wrote expresses Pakeha political views.”
                      That’s not correct. I know thoughtful Māori are very concerned about the behaviour of certain powerful but virtually unaccountable leaders—and not just in Kai Tahu.

                      Obviously. But the analysis is different IMO to what you have just done.

                      I’ll give an example. I know people (Pakeha as it happens) who like the idea of Charter Schools, not because they’re rightwing, but because they can see that it gives alternative education some power and control. These are people who think the mainstream education system is competely dysfunctional in terms of basic philosophies around teaching children usefully. So they put Charter Schools in a completely different context than you do. They don’t see education policy in terms of National vs Labour, because to them both are woefully inadequate.

                      Likewise, when I hear Maori talking about the value of having contracts to deliver welfare services to their people, it makes sense to me, because they are being so badly failed by mainstream welfare. We can jump up and down and shout “privatisation is bad”, but that just fails as well. (Part of the problem there would be solved if Maori were allowed sovereignty to run things for themselves the way they know works ie don’t see Iwi as ‘private’).

                      So, when you make a list of all the terrible things that Mark Solomon says and does, it’s not that I think you have no valid points, it’s that until you can make those points in the cultural context that Solomon is operating within, then those points are fairly meaningless. By this I mean in the sense that they don’t take us anywhere particularly useful. They just point yet another stick at Ngai Tahu and say x, y, z wrong there, which just feeds another whole thread of racism into NZ society.

                  • Morrissey

                    For me ts isn’t really a safe space to discuss this stuff and i usually leave alone unless the errors are really glaring or horrible. The fact is there is no context and to create the context and then discuss/argue the merits each way takes massive time and energy

                    I know exactly what you mean. I think the same whenever I hear Pakeha commentators discussing such matters. Whether it’s the outright hostile, even racist commentators (Sean Plunket, Michael Laws, Leighton Smith, Larry “Lackwit” Williams) or even the “well meaning” ones, the treatment of iwi politics is nearly always substandard.

                    I understand your concern.

          • Ennui 15.2.1.1.2

            Mars, pleased you made the stance you did. It is the only one that makes sense to me, though it strains the commercial imperative somewhat.

            Years back we did work with Lincoln scientists to ascertain the moister retention and soil retention (from wind erosion) in grass behind shelter belts on the plains. This was in aid of avoiding border dyke irrigation, and abstraction from the Rakaia. Grass growth behind shelter belts came out well in front when the other costs were totaled. Bluntly for every reason not related to the economics of cheap energy and fertilisers dairying on the plains makes no sense.

    • Tracey 15.3

      thanks for the information

    • weka 15.4

      Kiaora Adele,

      thanks for that information, as always the real story comes out later when it comes to te Ao Maori. I have no trouble believing that Kai Tahu are generally doing better than their tau iwi neighbours when it comes to kaitiakitanga and farming practices. For me, there is no ethical way to do industrial, export dairy, esp in that landscape. It’s always a loss. The things named in your post are very encouraging, and one thing I would hope would come out of this, as well as the local effect, is for other mainstream farmers to be influenced and shown a different way. That Lincoln are involved is also encouraging, because of their power to influence widely. I do agree with marty though, that there were other paths here. The core model being chosen is inherently unsustainable from land regeneration, AGW and Peak Oil/Everything perspectives.

      I also take the view that there tends to be prejudice in critiquing Ngai Tahu’s business practices, and that critique instead should be done intelligently and from an informed perspective taking culture into account, which it usually isn’t. Still so hard for pakeha to look at things in any way other than through their own lenses.

    • yeah..a major industrial dairy-farm will be good for the environment…

      ..(excuse me while i pick myself up off the floor..i fell there..laughing..)

      ..and no thoughts on the product to be peddled causing cancer/diabetes etc..?

      ..(and ultimate-irony)..especially amongst the owners..?

      ..it’s all ‘good!’..eh..?..)

      ..why don’t they use their power for ‘good’..f.f.s..!

      ..follow the lead of james cameron..

      ..he bought huge dairy-holdings..in the wairarapa..

      ..and is now converting them back to growing ‘real’-food..

      ..why t.f. do ngai tahu..(and others..).. want to just do more of what has fucked the country in the first place..?..

      ..am i the only one face-palming over this..?

      ..(as we all morris-dance on the heads of pins..over how ‘ethical’ some animal concentration-camps are or aren’t..?..)

      ..why don’t they drop james cameron an email..?

      ..i am sure he would be glad to help/advise..

      phillip ure..

    • Saarbo 15.6

      Sorry about the late reply Adele…thanks for the reply and great to read your response.

      My understanding is that a huge number of the South Island dairy farms are being worked by a mix of foreigner’s, mostly Philipino…if the farms were a bit smaller, say 300 to 500 cows it would be a hell of a lot easier to get local workers. Large farms are incredibly tedious to work on, cupping 800 cows twice a day is one of the most soul sapping jobs around (Ive done it, Ive also milked smaller herds, so I know what Im talking about). But if Ngai Tahu are going to employ local and put the effort into protecting the environment then I have absolutely NO problem with what they are doing…if Ngai Tahu are going to pollute the local environment then they probably have more rights to do that than the local pakeha farmers.

      • phillip ure 15.6.1

        @ sarbo..

        “.if Ngai Tahu are going to pollute the local environment then they probably have more rights to do that than the local pakeha farmers..”

        are you fucken kidding me..?

        phillip ure..

      • Adele 15.6.2

        Kiaora Saarbo

        I do owe you an apology for suggesting that your comments were motivated by prejudice.

        Personally, I would rather dial everything back to before 1800 when life was definitely much more hunter-gather-ish and small-scale. However, we are in the 21st century and are products of the modern age. Our reality is so vastly different from those of our tūpuna.

        As a child I used to love collecting eggs from free-range chickens. As an adult, I had the opportunity to revisit these child hood memories on visiting a friend’s lifestyle block. I was mortified to find eggs covered in chicken crap. Out came the hand sanitiser followed by the Samsung Galaxy to research the efficacy of hand sanitiser on the likelihood of developing histoplamosis symptomatology post egg harvest.

        Māori business practice is evolving and for the better as our business leaders are having to align their business practice to more closely fit with the principles we espouse as Māori. The rigid ‘for profit’ business model is no longer tenable in an age where growth is no longer possible without extreme prejudice to the environment. Ngai Tahu are being watched by many eyes so let’s see how evolved their thinking has become.

        • Saarbo 15.6.2.1

          Thanks Adele,

          “Māori business practice is evolving and for the better as our business leaders are having to align their business practice to more closely fit with the principles we espouse as Māori. The rigid ‘for profit’ business model is no longer tenable in an age where growth is no longer possible without extreme prejudice to the environment…”

          That is fantastic if Maori achieve that, it will be challenging. Dairy farming does have scope for improvement, Ive seen worker rights really take some huge backward steps in dairy farming, instead of dairy farmers meeting the market and paying workers the market rate and also improving conditions they have simply lobbied for overseas workers who are desperate…its just something that really annoys me.

          Good luck with the dairy project, I know Whakatohia in Opotiki (much smaller than Ngai Tahu) are running dairy farms with locals..and they relatively large dairy units.

  15. Treetop 16

    “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

    Albert Einstein

    • @ treetop..+1..

      (..and the conclusion..?)

      ..that way lies madness..

      phillip ure..

    • SHG (not Colonial Viper) 16.2

      A wonderful moral lesson from the man who wrote to US President Roosevelt suggesting that the US should commence a nuclear weapons program.

  16. Draco T Bastard 17

    Sea Shepherd Locates Whale Poachers

    The Steve Irwin’s helicopter first located the Nisshin Maru at 64°44′ S, 162°34′ W, in New Zealand’s sovereign waters in the Ross Dependency Antarctic region, and inside the internationally recognised Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.

    Sea Shepherd has obtained compelling footage and images of three dead protected Minke Whales on the deck of the Nisshin Maru, taken at the time the factory ship was first located. A fourth whale, believed to be a Minke, was being butchered on the bloodstained deck.

    I wonder what our government will say to this.

    • Tracey 17.1

      nothing is my guess

    • ScottGN 17.2

      McCully has already started the weasel words and has issued a statement saying the Ross Dependency is not NZ sovereign waters. We just have search and rescue responsibility for it. So I guess it belongs to us when we want to exploit the shit that’s in it but doesn’t belong to us if that means upsetting the Japanese?

  17. Pete 18

    David Shearer seems to have found his footing as foreign affairs spokesman.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/9578995/NZs-reputation-great-asset-in-UN-quest

    • Draco T Bastard 18.1

      We’re not the puppet of any master: we are independent and honest.

      Yeah, I’m gonna call BS on that one – especially under the present government.

      • Tim 18.1.1

        “We’re not the puppet of any master: we are independent and honest.”
        Once upon a time, MAYBE perceived as being so ….. now more and more being perceived as a croc of shit BY more and more.
        Let’s see how it all pans out (i.e./e.g. in our quest for SC seat).
        BTW …. I keep asking myself – how did that little trade mission jaunt to Sth America pan out early last year. Real successful according to Key!
        Well tick that one off the list! Next stop India aye?
        Increasingly, let me assure them – that perceived honesty and independence is becoming about as relevant as a spin doctor’s advice – especially the likes of Hooten’s, or that Mr I’m-inclined-to-agree-with-you-Mathew’s

      • phillip ure 18.1.2

        @ draco..and the previous one..

        phillip ure..

  18. Ad 19

    Helpful summary on Sir Mark there Morrissey. It’s an odd regional-grotesque capitalist variant all right.

  19. jcuknz 20

    After all the abuse awhile back I received on the subject I found this report on KB interesting
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/01/ny_charter_schools.html

    • McFlock 20.1

      LoTR was also “interesting”.
      Maybe one day you’ll figure out how to judge the reliability of a source.

      • jcuknz 20.1.1

        It is hard to sort the chaff from the wheat with bias and mis use of statistics coming from both sides … frankly I am ambivilent on the subject and think the experiement should continue unhinderd until some reliable answers become apparent …. I picked several holes in the KB article and the sarcasm of David was unhelpful. With some cherry-picking while others handle the dross is bound to make for misleading statistics.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 20.1.1.1

          Can you show some examples of bias and misuse of statistics coming from the pro-education (ie: teachers’ unions, left wing parties) “side”?

          Or even one single example?

          Put up or shut up.

          • McFlock 20.1.1.1.1

            personally I’m sick of that fucking “both sides do it”-style argument.
            It’s essentially an admission that the speaker cannot demonstrate that they are in a “good”, morally or logically defensible position, so all they can do is muddy the waters enough to pretend equivalence with opposing positions.

            • jcuknz 20.1.1.1.1.1

              Since most here are expressing opinions rather than facts I think my opinions are as valid as anybody elses …. I have yet to be convinced by the arguments of the teachers which sound to me to be largely job protectionism cloaked in high sounding principles

              • McFlock

                most people here can provide facts to support their opinions when asked. You – not so much

                • jcuknz

                  I was discussing this subject at least a year or so ago and frankly have forgotten details, it simply isn’t that important to me in my second childhood and grandchild overseas finishing her education … so without taking sides I drew the article to your attention … but as we all know, when we are honest with ourselves, we tend to only read what we agree with though I have a receptive audience for Nasska’s jokes so visit KB for them … as important as anything else I read there.

  20. Draco T Bastard 21

    Judge Napolitano: How to get fired from Fox in under 5 mins
    Lots of questions that, apparently, Fox News didn’t like.

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    Frankly Speaking | 21-09
  • She saw John Key on TV and decided to vote!
    . . NZ, Wellington, 15 September – ‘Tina’* is 50, a close friend,  and one of the “Missing Million” from the last election. In fact, ‘Tina’ has never voted in her life.  Not once. In ‘Tina’s’ own words, politics has...
    Frankly Speaking | 21-09
  • The best result John Key could have got
    John Key got his best result: a majority on his own or with young David Seymour if National’s vote drops on the special votes as much as the half per cent it dropped in 2011. He didn’t need the Conservatives...
    Colin James | 21-09
  • Economics and the Puhoi Warkworth Board of Inquiry
    The final decision from the Board of Inquiry confirming the Puhoi to Warkworth toll road was published on 12th September but, what with one thing and another, I’m only now getting round to writing about it. The final report is largely unchanged from the...
    Transport Blog | 21-09
  • Bugger!
    This election campaign was a roller-coaster of unexpected revelations and controversy. For the Greens this meant our strategy of running a clean campaign, sticking to a clear plan and releasing properly costed, practical policies never made the impression it should...
    Local Bodies | 21-09
  • Fair Play
    Article – Alexander Lowe The Australian Football League (AFL) has cancelled a sponsorship deal between its affiliated league in Europe and Royal Brunei Airlines. AFL had earlier this year pledged to combat eliminate homophobia in sports so discovery of sponsorship...
    Its our future | 21-09
  • Gordon Campbell on Labour’s very bad year
    While Labour leader David Cunliffe still appears to be in denial about the extent of Saturday night’s debacle, there was hardly a single redeeming feature about the election results for the centre-left. Even the victory by Labour’s Stuart Nash in...
    Gordon Campbell | 21-09
  • Yesterday is not ours to recover, but tomorrow is ours to win or lose
    I see suggestions that the National Party somehow manipulated results to gain their unprecedented win as an extension of “dirty politics”. I have no doubt that there has been a vindictive streak in ministers’ ranks for some time as this...
    Closing the Gap | 21-09
  • 2014 SkS Weekly Digest #38
    "Today, we march... In Berlin, London, Amsterdam, Oslo, Rome, Stockholm, Paris, Madrid, Porto, Geneva, Ljubliana, Budapest and so many other places." - 350.0rg SkS Highlights As to be expected, Dana's The 97% v the 3% – just how much global warming are...
    Skeptical Science | 21-09
  • Hold fast to your Mana – Harawira
    Hone Harawira today called on the voters of Tai Tokerau to hold fast to their mana, and not be dictated to by those party leaders who have ganged together to tell them how to vote. “I call on our people...
    Mana | 18-09
  • Media Advisory – Interview availability
    This is to advise all media that Hone Harawira will be available in Auckland tomorrow, Friday the 19th of September from 7am to 4pm for interviews relating to his recent press releases. If you are interested in interviewing Mr Harawira on...
    Mana | 18-09
  • Labour stands on proud record on Suffrage Day
    Women have come a long way in the 121 years since New Zealand became the first country to give them the vote on September 19 1893, but there is still more to do, Labour’s Women’s Affairs spokesperson Carol Beaumont says....
    Labour | 18-09
  • Polling Booths asked to treat Maori voters with respect
    “Polling booths without Maori roll voting papers, Maori people not being offered assistance to vote, people getting sent from Whangarei to Wellsford to vote, Maori people getting turned away from voting because they didn’t have their ‘easy vote’ card, Maori...
    Mana | 17-09
  • Aussie Liberals embroiled in Key campaign
    John Key needs to explain why Australia’s Liberal Party is interfering in New Zealand domestic politics and is encouraging Kiwi voters across the ditch to vote for National just days out from the election, Labour’s campaign spokesperson Annette King says....
    Labour | 17-09
  • The MANA Plan for Beneficiaries and Income in Waiariki
    Median Personal Income for Waiariki is $21,700. Over 13,000 Maori who live in Waiariki rely upon a form of government benefit including the Unemployment Benefit, Sickness Benefit, Domestic Purpose Benefit and the Invalids Benefit. “If you’re lucky enough to have...
    Mana | 16-09
  • Māori development crucial to New Zealand’s future
    Labour recognises the concern of Māori about child poverty and the rising costs of living, and in Government will make a real difference to the wellbeing of whānau and iwi, Labour’s Māori Affairs spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta says. “As our Māori...
    Labour | 16-09
  • MAORI PARTY – DON’T COMPLAIN … WALK
    “If the Maori Party are serious about stopping government spying on NZ citizens then they should tell the Prime Minister to either stop doing it or they will walk away” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP Hone Harawira, on...
    Mana | 16-09
  • JOHN KEY SUPPORTING LABOUR
    “There is something really sick about a National Party Prime Minister coming out in support of a Labour candidate” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP, Hone Harawira, after hearing that John Key is urging voters to back Labour in...
    Mana | 16-09
  • SHUT DOWN THIS GOVT NOT KAITI WINZ – Nikora
    “I’m going to make it as hard for you to get help as I can” is Paula Bennett’s message to the people of Kaiti  said MANA candidate Te Hāmua Nikora today in response to the news that National will close...
    Mana | 16-09
  • Winegums make for better polling – Harawira
    I wanted to laugh when I saw the Native Affairs poll the other night (Hone Harawira 38%, Kelvin Davis 37%) because it was almost the same as the one they did back in 2011”, said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau...
    Mana | 16-09
  • The Leadership of MTS Lied – Harawira
    “Normally I’m happy to tell people that I was right but when I received the news about the staff cuts at Maori Television, I had nothing but sympathy for the three Maori media leaders who are going to be made...
    Mana | 16-09
  • Privileges Complaint Laid against Prime Minister – Harawira
    MANA Movement Leader and Te Tai Tokerau MP Hone Harawira has today lodged a Privileges Complaint with the Speaker regarding the Prime Ministers denials in parliament that he knew anything about Kim Dotcom before 2012. “Information made public today appears...
    Mana | 15-09
  • Sharples’ new appointments are out of order
    The new appointments to the Waitangi Tribunal announced by Dr Pita Sharples this morning are completely out of order given the election is just five days away, says Labour's State Services spokesperson, Maryan Street. “This Government continues to show disdain...
    Labour | 15-09
  • MANA Movement Housing Policy
    “When families are living in cars, garages, cockroach-infested caravans and three families to a house then we have a housing crisis”, said MANA leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira. “When you have a housing crisis for low-income...
    Mana | 15-09
  • Bigger than the Foreshore and Seabed – Sykes
    “Over the past week I have received some disturbing information that has led myself and a number of Maori lawyers to conclude that this National - Maori Party - ACT and United Future Government are going to put an end to both...
    Mana | 14-09
  • MANA wants Te Reo Māori petition fulfilled
    Hone Harawira, MANA Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau Annette Sykes, MANA candidate for Waiariki Te Hāmua Nikora, MANA candidate for Ikaroa Rāwhiti  “More than four decades have passed and the petition calling for Te Reo Māori in schools...
    Mana | 14-09
  • Primary focus on the critical issues
    A Labour Government will prioritise New Zealand’s agricultural sectors by recreating a Rural Affairs Minister and appointing a Primary Industry Council and a Chief Agricultural Adviser. Releasing Labour’s Primary Sector and Rural Affairs policies today, spokesperson Damien O’Connor says the...
    Labour | 12-09
  • Maori Television fears confirmed – Harawira
    ...
    Mana | 12-09
  • More ghost houses from National
    The Government’s desperate pre-election announcement of more ghost houses won’t fool Aucklanders wanting action on the housing crisis, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “These are ghost houses, to go with National’s ghost tax cut. Families cannot live in ghost...
    Labour | 12-09
  • National bows to union pressure over travel time
    National has reluctantly bowed to pressure from unions and adopted Labour’s fair and sensible policy to pay home support workers for the time they spend traveling between clients, Labour’s Associate Health spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “This decision is long overdue...
    Labour | 12-09
  • Predators on Poverty – Harawira
    “As poverty has ballooned out of control, the Predators on Poverty have emerged to suck the lifeblood from whole families and communities” said MANA Movement leader and Tai Tokerau MP, Hone Harawira. “They are deliberately targeting low-income areas, particularly those...
    Mana | 11-09
  • MANA Movement Policy Launch
    Predators on Poverty (pokie machines, alcohol outlets and loan sharks) 1pm, Thursday 11th September Corner Great South Road and Criterion Street Otahuhu Shopping Centre...
    Mana | 10-09
  • Eliminating Poverty – Sir Edmund Hillary Collegiate, Otara | Internet MAN...
    A campaign to Eliminate Poverty, Feed the Kids, build more houses, and create thousands of new jobs, was outlined by Internet MANA at a public meeting in Otara this evening. When MANA and the Internet Party first sat down to...
    Mana | 09-09
  • Housing in Waiariki – Sykes
    Fact:  Under this National-Maori Party-ACT-United Future Government 61% of Maori in Waiariki do not own their own home and nearly 70% of Maori rentals in Waiariki pay $200 or more per week. “Maori in Waiariki have low rates of home ownership...
    Mana | 09-09
  • Charter school crisis shows time to axe costly experiment
    Dysfunction from day one at a Northland charter school shows it is time to dump this costly and failed experiment by the National-ACT Government, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru received $27,000 in government funding...
    Labour | 08-09
  • Labour will crack down on loan sharks
    A Labour Government will crack down on predatory loan sharks by making it illegal both to charge exorbitant interest rates and to exploit uninformed borrowers, Labour’s Consumer Affairs Spokesperson Carol Beaumont says. Labour today released its Consumer Affairs policy which...
    Labour | 08-09
  • Let’s do the FEED before the weed
    “Last week I put out a very strongly worded email to my colleagues about an online promotion about cannabis law reform” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP, Hone Harawira “and I stand by that criticism today.” My concern was...
    Mana | 08-09
  • TE KAEA and NATIVE AFFAIRS live to fight another day
    “I understand that both the chair of the Board of Maori Television, Georgina Te Heuheu, and new CEO, Paora Maxwell, are now saying that my comments this morning about their plans to cut Te Kaea and Native Affairs, were wrong, and that...
    Mana | 08-09
  • How come the PM only pays 2.8% of his income in tax – Harawira
    “Before John Key talks about the piddling tax cuts he plans for low and middle income families today he needs to explain why he only pays 2.8% of his income on tax while a minimum wage worker pays 28% tax,”...
    Mana | 07-09
  • THE DEATH OF INDEPENDENCE FOR MAORI TV
    “If what I’m hearing is true, tomorrow Maori Television Service (MTS) will dump its news programme, Te Kaea, and staff will lose their jobs” said MANA Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira “and the Minister of Maori...
    Mana | 07-09
  • Labour recommits to Pike River families
    An incoming Labour-led government will do everything possible to recover the bodies of the Pike River Miners and return them to their families, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “This tragedy and its aftermath has left the families of the 29...
    Labour | 06-09
  • Voting has started and still no tax plan or fiscal budget for voters to see
    "Even though voting for the election has already begun, National still refuses to provide any details of its proposed tax cuts. And Bill English admitted this morning that he won’t provide any specifics until after the election", Labour’s Finance spokesperson...
    Labour | 06-09
  • National’s partners’ tax plans cost at least $42 billion
    If National forms the next government its partners’ tax plans will cost the country at least $42 billion, and maybe as much as $50 billion, wreaking havoc with the books, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker. “National claims to be...
    Labour | 05-09
  • Labour: Providing more opportunities for young Kiwis
    A Labour Government will ensure every young Kiwi under the age of 20 is given the opportunity to be in work, education or training, and plans to develop a conservation apprenticeship scheme to help do that, Labour’s Youth Affairs spokesperson...
    Labour | 04-09
  • Candles out on teachers’ slice of birthday cake
    Today may be Novopay’s second birthday, but there’s little to celebrate, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Novopay has cost the taxpayer tens of millions of dollars already, and the cost is still climbing....
    Labour | 04-09
  • National’s blatant broadband pork barrelling misses the mark by a country...
    National’s blatant pork-barrelling ICT announcement today should reinforce a growing sceptical electorate’s view that they are all about the gift wrap and not the present, Labour’s ICT spokesperson Clare Curran says. “Instead of addressing the real issues - the woeful...
    Labour | 04-09
  • More evidence of the need to clean up the system
    The latest release of emails and messages between disgraced Minister Judith Collins and blogger Cameron Slater are more evidence of the urgent need to clean up politics, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. "This new evidence confirms a near constant flow...
    Labour | 04-09
  • Labour commits to stable funding for voluntary sector
    A Labour Government will establish long-term funding and streamline contract accountability for community and voluntary groups, says Labour’s spokesperson for the sector Louisa Wall. Announcing Labour’s policy for the community and voluntary sector, she said this would give much greater...
    Labour | 04-09
  • Better trained and skilled workforce under Labour
    Labour is committed to a skilled workforce that benefits businesses as well as their workers, and will increase workplace training to improve productivity and drive innovation, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “Labour believes the Government should support New Zealanders into...
    Labour | 03-09
  • Labour will make renting a better option
    Labour will provide greater security of tenure for renters, and build more state and social housing, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Labour believes every kid deserves a decent start in life. That means a warm, dry and secure home....
    Labour | 03-09
  • At least 15 new taxes under National
    John Key is the last person to talk about creating taxes, presiding over a Government that has imposed at least 15 new taxes, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “John Key tried a novel line in the debate last night claiming...
    Labour | 03-09
  • Labour will strengthen New Zealand’s democracy
    A Labour Government will act quickly to protect and enhance New Zealand’s reputation as one of the most open and least corrupt countries in the world, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “The health of any democracy is improved by greater...
    Labour | 02-09
  • MANA Movement says tax cut on GST must be first priority – Minto
    “If Prime Minister John Key has money available for tax cuts then cutting GST must be the first priority”,  said MANA Movement Economic Justice Spokesperson John Minto. GST is a nasty tax on low-income families”, said Minto. “People in the...
    Mana | 02-09
  • The Maori Party’s Mana-Enhancing Relationship with National – Minto
    “First we had Cameron Slater and David Farrar backing Labour’s Kelvin Davis bid to unseat MANA Movement Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau Hone Harawira.  Now we have Slater writing a pro-Te Ururoa Flavell article on his website, Whale...
    Mana | 02-09
  • Hang tight everyone – Marama Davidson campaign reflection
    To the many people who had expressed their overwhelming support for me to enter Parliament this election – thank you. That the Greens held steady in a big loss for progressive politics is an achievement. We are hopeful that after...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • New flag for NZ once Key signs TPPA
    New flag for NZ once Key signs TPPA...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • Reflecting on Elections Past
    There are a number of past elections that can give the left in New Zealand guidance and hope. Two major points though. Major parties require leaders who can bridge the political divide through strength of personality, vision of what it...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – The Reptile Room
    I stress, at the outset, that I’ve got nothing against reptiles. Some of my best friends are reptiles. Some say I am one, but I’m not really. I just emulate that ability to sit, stationary for hours in court, eyes...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • The success of right-wing counter messaging in the election
    One of the reasons National won the election was due to its success in counter messaging – and the way so many media commentators ran with th the right-wing spin. Here are some examples. Dirty Politics The original message was...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • New Flag competition
    New Flag competition...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • No time for self-pity
    After 23 meetings across the largest non-Maori electorate in the country – almost all of which went fantastically, approx 4,500km on the odometer, positive MSM and social media coverage, and polling well, I admit my team and I headed to...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • The 30 second speech that could have saved the Moment of Truth
    As the dust settles and we struggle to understand what the bloody hell happened on Saturday, many point to Kim’s failure at the Moment of Truth to present his evidence. I think that Kim was poorly advised and that politics requires a...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • Internet MANA and the 2014 election
    It was always going to be a hard task for Hone Harawira to hold onto his Te Tai Tokerau seat when the political establishment united in a coalition to defeat him and the chance for Internet MANA to bring more...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – Unity in Action
    Yes the Left have taken a drubbing, but never mind, time to pick ourselves up off the floor, patch up our wound pride, dust ourselves off, cast around for our friends and allies, and re-enter the fray. Lots of work...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • A Fiji democratic mandate for the coup leader – what now for the media?
    Attorney-General Sayad-Khaiyum and Rear-Admiral (Ret) Voreqe Bainimarama’s Fiji First party is poised to lead the country in the next four years. Photo: Mads Anneberg, an AUT Pacific Media Centre student on internship in Suva with Repúblika Magazine and Pacific Scoop...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • Why I voted Labour and why 2017 will be different
    As a 3nd and 5th generation Kiwi-Indian (depending on which side of the family we have to go with), my relationship with New Zealand is a special one. Like other New Zealanders who are not of the Caucasian variety, the...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Humble Pie
    Oh. My. God. This was a heartbreaking nightmare. I was wrong, horribly, horribly, horribly wrong. I honestly believed that the resources, the media attention, the vile toxic politics exposed by Dirty Politics and the mass surveillance lies would have seen...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Election 2014; A Post-mortem; a Wake; and one helluva hang-over
    .   . It would be fair to say that the results for Election 2014 did not go as anticipated. The Left has had a drubbing – and some of it was of our own making. In other aspects, there...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Voting turnout affected by bad weather?
    . . NZ, Upper Hutt, 20 September –  Cold, wet weather in the Hutt Valley, north of Wellington may be impacting on voter turn-out. A head-count of people visiting the Trentham School Voting Station in Moonshine Rd, Upper Hutt, indicated...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Final total of advance voting
    And the final total for the advance voting was a staggering 717,579 advance votes against 334,558 in 2011       Tonight, I’ll be watching the TV3 election coverage because I could bare Paul Henry’s smugness one inch more than Mike Hosking’s...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Vice article on NZ election
    Here is my Vice article on the NZ election....
    The Daily Blog | 19-09
  • The attempt to kill off Internet MANA
    It’s the last day of campaigning today and the long list of those attacking Internet MANA got longer yesterday with Winston Peters backing Labour candidate Kelvin Davis against the MANA Movement’s Hone Harawira. Davis is now supported by Labour, National,...
    The Daily Blog | 19-09
  • A final word on the election – it’s now all up to you
    Brothers & Sisters, the fate of Aotearoa is now all in your hands. We here at the Daily Blog have thrown everything we can at this bloody Government and have spent every waking hour of this campaign trying to highlight...
    The Daily Blog | 19-09
  • I can’t tell what is National Party advert and what is the NZ Herald – ...
    I can’t tell what is National Party advert and what is the NZ Herald – but then again, I never could...
    The Daily Blog | 19-09
  • TVNZ election coverage – white people telling other white people why Nati...
    TVNZ election coverage – white people telling other white people why National Party is great...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • REVIEW: Royals of Kihikihi
    What an absolutely stunning show.  I had to ask twice to check I’d heard right that this is the first staged production for Samuel Christopher, who also played a raw, real, but vulnerable, Wolf Royal, home from London for his...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • 800 Cops to detain 15 ‘terrorists’ – why Australia’s hysterical Isl...
    I’m sorry but I can’t take this current Australian terror threat seriously. 800 cops to detain 15 people and arrest one of them? A week after Abbot decides to send in Australian forces to the cluster fuck of Iraq, suddenly...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Unbelievable corruption inside Government to attack Kim Dotcom
    The corruption inside this Government just more and more filthy – we now have an ex-Customs Lawyer quitting  after being told to bury information that could embarrass the Government, specifically to do with Kim Dotcom… Curtis Gregorash said he was told...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Everyone Loves A Win-Win That Keeps G...
      Permit me to quote some figures at you… -68% of New Zealanders think political news on television focuses too much on politicians’ personalities and not enough on real issues. This is the key result of a recent UMR survey commissioned by...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, another week of ...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, another week of being the most in demand broadcaster in the country...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • EXCLUSIVE: Te Tai Tokerau independent poll (44% Hone-27% Kelvin) vs Maori T...
    The Te Tai Tokerau Maori TV poll on Monday this week painted a bleak picture for Internet MANA supporters, and it’s results have been seized upon by Labour, NZ First and even the Maori Party (who seem set once again...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • The time for TPPA weasel words is over
    Almost every day of the election campaign there has been a policy announcement that would potentially run foul of what I understand is currently in the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA):  more constraints on foreign investment or investors … regulation of...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • MELTDOWN – Maori Party turns on their own Te Tai Tokerau candidate – ag...
    The tensions are building in Te Tai Tokerau with the Maori Party on the verge of meltdown. Days out from the election, the Maori Party Executive has tried to heavy their own Te Tai Tokerau Electoral Committee and their own candidate, Te Hira Paenga,...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • We Can Change this Government
    We Can Change this Government – Mike Treen at the First Union stop work election meeting...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Election 2014: For and Against
    With the general election tomorrow, we have had a very noisy campaign but little sign that the electorate wishes for a fundamental change of governmental direction. This reflects in part the fact that the economic cycle is close to its decadal...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Eye To Eye Uploaded: Martyn ‘Bomber’ Bradbury
    This interview was filmed a couple of weeks ago between Willie Jackson and myself, I was a tad off with my prediction of NZ First....
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • The Donghua Liu Affair – The Players Revealed
      . . – Special investigation by Frank Macskasy & ‘Hercules‘ Speculation that the Beehive office of Immigration Minister, Michael Woodhouse, was behind the release of a letter linking Labour leader, David Cunliffe, with controversial Chinese businessman, Donghua Liu, is...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • As if you needed another reason to boycott Telecom/Spark – they sold NZ d...
    It should read ‘never stop spying’. As if you needed another reason to boycott Telecom/Spark – they sold us down the river to the US by allowing the Southern Cross cable to be tapped… The ability for US intelligence agencies...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • The NZ First-Labour Party attack strategy against Internet MANA better work
    The final days of the campaign are ticking down and Labour and NZ First are manoeuvring to kill off the Internet MANA Party by both backing Kelvin Davis for Te Tai Tokerau. It’s a risky gambit that they better pray to Christ...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Bill English’s latest insult to beneficiaries – apparently they are lik...
    National’s hatred towards the poor continues unabated as National desperately try to throw raw meat to their reactionary voter base in the hope to inspire enough hate and loathing to win back their redneck voters from the Conservative Party and from...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Eminem ain’t happy with John Key
    Eminem ain’t happy with John Key...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Key claims he did not inhale
    Key claims he did not inhale...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Final prediction on election result 2014
    What an election campaign. The character assassination of David Cunliffe kicked things off with the Herald on Sunday falsely claiming $100 00 bottles of wine, $15 000 books and $150 000 in donations  from a donor that turned out to be...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Live blog: Bainamarama takes commanding lead in Fiji elections
      Interview with Repúblika editor Ricardo Morris and Pacific Scoop’s Mads Anneberg. PACIFIC SCOOP TEAM By Ricardo Morris, Mads Anneberg, Alistar Kata and Biutoka Kacimaiwai in Suva WHILE the results are provisional at this stage, it is clear today that...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • 5AA Australia: NZ Elections Two Days To Go! + Edward Snowden + Julian Assan...
    Recorded live on 18/09/14 – Captured Live on Ustream at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/multimedia-investments-ltd 5AA Australia’s Peter Godfrey and Selwyn Manning deliver their weekly bulletin: Across The Ditch. This week, they discuss the latest news as New Zealanders go to the polls on...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • What has Colin Craig done for his Press Secretary to quit 2 days before ele...
    This is VERY strange.  Colin Craig’s Press Secretary Rachel McGregor, has quit 2 days before the election, allegedly telling ZB that Colin Craig was a “very manipulative man”. I’ve met Rachel many times in the past as Colin’s Press Secretary, she is...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • “If you want steak, go to the supermarket and buy steak,” – A brief w...
    “If you want steak, go to the supermarket and buy steak,” said Key in the final leaders debate. Problem of course is that the 250 000 – 285 000 children living in poverty can not afford steak, milk, butter, eggs...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • National’s final bash of beneficiaries before the election
    On cue, whenever National feel threatened, they roll out a little bennie bash just to keep their redneck voter base happy. Nothing like a bit of raw meat policy to keep National voters focused on the evil threat solo parents...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • With All Of This In Mind, I Vote
    This is my last blog before the election and I really just want to speak from the heart. Right now in this country it seems to me that a lot of people consider the “essentials” in life to be simply...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Left has to vote strategically this election
    The dedication, loyalty, and tribalism of party politics means that sometimes the left lets itself down by not voting strategically. We all want our favoured party to get maximum votes, naturally, but the winner-takes-all approach doesn’t always suit multi-party left...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Dear NZ – as you enter the polling booth, stand up for your rights
    The last days before a NZ general election are a busy time as politicians make their pitch and party activists prepare to get out the vote. It is sort of weird watching from the distance of Europe the strangest election...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • What is Waihopai, John, if it isn’t a facility for “mass surveillance...
    John Key assured us on RNZ’s Nine to Noon programme yesterday that “In terms of the Fives Eyes data bases… yes New Zealand will contribute some information but not mass wholesale surveillance.” How does this square with the operation of the...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Catherine Delahunty – Mass Surveillance and the Banality of E...
    Renowned journalist and intellectual Hannah Arendt coined the phrase “the banality of evil” to describe the normalisation of genocide in Nazi Germany. I thought of her phrase when I was listening to Glenn Greenwald and other international whistle-blowers talking about...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Election. Down. To. The. Wire
    Funny how last week it was John Key winning by 50%, now it’s neck and neck. I have always believed this election would be down to the wire and it is proving so. The flawed landline opinion polls the mainstream...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • President Obama Congratulates Key
    The President called Prime Minister Key late last evening to congratulate him on his third electoral victory....
    Scoop politics | 22-09
  • Seven Pasifika MPs elected – highest number ever
    AUCKLAND ( Pacific Media Watch / The New Zealand Herald ): The highest number of Pasifika MPs elected in New Zealand's history were voted in at the weekend general election....
    Scoop politics | 22-09
  • LGNZ congratulates National
    LGNZ congratulates National Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ) congratulates re-elected Prime Minister John Key and the National led government on winning their third consecutive term following Saturday’s general election. LGNZ President Lawrence Yule acknowledges...
    Scoop politics | 22-09
  • The Letter – 22 September 2014
    John Key’s win is historic. In the history of MMP elections – worldwide – ever – no government has won an absolute majority. MMP was imposed on Germany to make sure that country never had another Hitler. It is designed...
    Scoop politics | 22-09
  • Election Coverage – None Better Than Trans Tasman
    To get a steer on what was going to happen in the election - away from the histrionics of the mainstream coverage - the best place to go was The Main Report Group’s weekly political report Trans Tasman....
    Scoop politics | 22-09
  • Federated Farmers intemperate
    For the second time in a week Federated Farmers has made intemperate and provocative comments on environmental issues, says EDS....
    Scoop politics | 22-09
  • MP’s Stolen Items Recovered
    Following a complaint to Parliamentary Services today [ September 19 ], items which had been stolen from NZ First MP Andrew Williams’ Wellington parliamentary office have been recovered and returned....
    Scoop politics | 22-09
  • Election results bad news for those on benefits
    Beneficiary Advocate Kay Brereton says, “ The election result holds no good news for people on benefits, National campaigned successfully with their beneficiary bashing agenda, and will now believe their punitive treatment of beneficiaries has the support...
    Scoop politics | 22-09
  • Opportunity to progress water infrastructure
    “National’s re-election is an opportunity to develop the infrastructure New Zealand needs to provide surety of water for agriculture, town drinking water supply, waterways, recreational use and to future proof the country from climate change,” says Andrew...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Wellington City joins the global call for 100% clean
    At 1:00 pm, residents and visitors of Wellington gathered at the summit of Mt Victoria to join the millions strong call for a 100% clean future....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Hikoi with us from Cape Reinga to Auckland Oil Conference!
    Monday 22 September 2014: Maori from different tribal areas along the western length of Northland are organising a hikoi starting on Saturday to a Government oil conference in Auckland to make sure that Norwegian oil giant Statoil gets the message:...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Roy Morgan NZ Election Update With A Look At The Polls
    Roy Morgan NZ Election Update With A Look At The Polls National re-elected to third term with record high vote as Labour slumps to worst result in over 90 years...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • National-led Government wins mandate for RMA reforms
    An unprecedented increase in support for the third-term National Party, the best electoral performance since 1899, has delivered a clear mandate for reform of the Resource Management Act says Federated Farmers. “Vital reforms to the RMA have...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • New Zealand says no to Culture of Death
    Right to Life is pleased that the people of New Zealand have rejected a culture of death by refusing to elect a Labour/Green government that supported the decriminalisation of abortion....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Q + A – Steven Joyce
    CORIN Steven Joyce if we could start with how things are going to look now with your support partners. Can you just run us through, National can technically govern alone on what you’ve got at the moment, do you think...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Q + A – Kelvin Davis
    SUSAN Well earlier this morning, just before we came to air in fact, Corin spoke to Kelvin Davis, one of the big winners of the night, the new MP for Te Tai Tokerau....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Q + A – David Cunliffe
    CORIN Joining me now is Labour Leader, David Cunliffe. Good morning to you Mr Cunliffe. This is a tough result for Labour, how much personal responsibility do you take for this....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Grey Power congratulates Key
    Grey Power National President Terry King congratulated John Key for his party’s “resounding win “ in yesterday’s election and hoped that the new National Government would look hard at issues affecting the ever–growing number of older New Zealanders....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • EMA congratulates PM John Key and National
    The Employers and Manufacturers Association extend hearty congratulations to the re-election of Prime Minister John Key and National....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Helen Clark Receives Inaugural Women’s Health Rights Award
    Helen Clark was honoured as the first recipient of the Women’s Health Rights Award at the 121st Woman’s Suffrage event held in Auckland....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • National deal with New Zealand First unlikely
    The National party is unlikely to offer a confidence and supply agreement to New Zealand First according to Dr Ryan Malone, Director Training and Research at Civicsquare....
    Scoop politics | 20-09
  • Daily Election Update #12: NZ First to hold balance of power
    Winston Peters’ NZ First Party will hold the balance of power after tomorrow’s election, according to the combined wisdom of the 8000+ registered traders on New Zealand’s predictions market, iPredict. Mr Peters is then expected to back a National-led...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Election Day is Time to Refocus on Policies
    Over the course of this election campaign there has been a lot of focus on dirty politics and spying, and not a lot on policy. With election day looming, Gareth Morgan is calling for people to refocus on the issues....
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • The Kiwi FM Alternative Election Commentary
    Saturday 20 September from 7pm on 102.2 Auckland, 102.1 Wellington, 102.5 Canterbury, or KiwiFM.co.nz...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Beneficiary Bashing unacceptable
    Kay Brereton of the Beneficiary Advocacy Federation of New Zealand says “ the comment made by Bill English yesterday comparing beneficiaries to crack addicts is shocking and incredibly poorly timed.”...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • UN Experience Beneficial
    Acclaim Otago representatives have just completed their participation at the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disability examination of the New Zealand government in Geneva, Switzerland. "It was an interesting two days which we believe has...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Changing face of NZ should be reflected in newsrooms
    With Fairfax Media’s Journalism Intern search closing on Sunday, Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy is urging aspiring journalists from Maori, Pacific and ethnic communities to apply. The deadline was recently extended to 10pm, Sunday...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • SPCA expresses concern over toxin in waterways
    Ric Odom CEO of Royal NZ SPCA has expressed concern over the toxic poison 1080 entering waterways, but DoC, Council’s and Ministry of Health have colluded to make it legal....
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • NZ 2014 Election Index – 13-18 September
    Below is iSentia’s final weekly Election Index, covering the period 13-18 September and showing the relative amount of coverage of nine Party Leaders in the lead up to the National Election across news media and social media. The methodology used...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Epsom Candidate (Adam Holland) More Liberal Than ACT
    For the past four years I, like 500,000 other New Zealanders, have been illegally smoking cannabis for medicinal purposes and/or even just for the occasional laugh with friends on the weekend. We don't hurt anybody, we don't cause nuisance, we...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Left Coalition Will Save Dolphins
    A left coalition would safeguard both Māui and Hector’s dolphins, as well as revive our inshore ecosystems. Labour, Internet Mana and the Green Party all have strong policies in place for dolphin protection. The Maori Party, and to a certain...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Waihoroi Shortland: Ngāti Hine is not standing alone
    The Chairman of Te Rūnanga a Iwi o Ngāpuhi, Sonny Tau is blowing smoke worthy of a Dotcom rally with claims that Ngati Hine is standing alone in its opposition to Tūhoronuku says the Chairman of Te Rūnanga o Ngati...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Oceania voices on environment loud and strong
    While money and energy continues to be spent on global talks about climate change, Pacific islanders are scrambling to build sea walls out of sticks, stones, shells and coral, to protect their lands and homes from erosion and rising sea...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Prime Time with Sean Plunket – Tonight
    No MPs tonight --- the campaign will be over at 9 30. Instead we will look back --- and possibly forward on what we have learned and what might happen. Listener Political Columnist Jane Clifton Editor in Chief, NZ Herald,...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Election fails to address youth financial wellbeing
    Young people don’t feel included in New Zealand’s financial success and believe inequality is a problem, according to a new survey conducted by Westpac’s Fin-Ed Centre at Massey University....
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Winston’s Waffle doesn’t hide the facts
    The Conservative Party is celebrating the ASA's finding announced today that rejected all but one of the complaints raised against its controversial “Conservatives or Peters” pamphlet. “Despite pages of complaints from Peters legal team the only...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • NZ Independent Coalition looking forward to tomorrow
    “Our team is looking forward to tomorrow. It is a real opportunity to reclaim politics for the people,” said NZ Independent Coalition leader Brendan Horan....
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Insights Issue 35/2014 – 19 September 2014
    Insights Issue 35/2014 - 19 September 2014 In This Issue • RMA reform the golden unicorn of policy | Jenesa Jeram...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Special voting arrangements made for NIWA crew
    One of the most unusual polling stations for this year’s general election is in the middle of the ocean miles from land. NIWA’s flagship research vessel Tangaroa, has been doubling as a polling booth for crew and scientists at sea....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Tourism operators urged to vote strategically
    Tourism operators should make sure they know their local candidates’ view on tourism and use their vote to support the country’s second largest export industry, says Chris Roberts, Chief Executive, Tourism Industry Association New Zealand (TIA)....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • WGTN: March for free education
    We are students, university staff, and members of the community. Whichever parties form a government after September 20th, we are demanding an end to corporatisation of education....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Evidence of Corruption a National Scandal
    Internet Party leader Laila Harré will take evidence of corruption to international forums if there is not a full Royal Commission to investigate the growing evidence of the systematic use and abuse of democratic institutions and processes for political...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Govt continues to throw money at charter school experiment
    Official documents reveal the three primary sector charter schools approved last week will cost $2 million to set up as well as divert another $1.5 million of potential taxpayer investment from local state schools next year....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • ACT Final Election Rally
    Elections campaigns are an opportunity for political parties to put candidates and policy to enable voters to choose what sort of New Zealand we want. In this campaign there have been three tests by which you can assess the electoral...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Taxpayers on Hook Again for Solid Energy
    Responding to the Fairfax article that taxpayers are extending another $103 million to keep Solid Energy afloat, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says:...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Invermay Petition Tops 10,000 Signatures
    People across New Zealand continue to express their disgust at the downgrading of Invermay, says Dunedin North MP David Clark, as the Save Invermay petition he instigated earlier this year topped the 10,000 signature mark just days before the 2014...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • McVicar vows to continue fight for police
    Garth McVicar stated at a public meeting last week that he would fight to retain a 24/7 Police Station in Napier and no reduction in the number of police staff for the Hawkes Bay region, some said he was simply...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Party Vote Our Weapon in Fight Against Government Corruption
    Internet MANA urges New Zealanders to use their party vote to confront corruption in any new government....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Election day is tomorrow – make sure you’re a part of it!
    Tomorrow, Saturday 20 September, is election day, and New Zealanders’ last chance to have a say on who leads the country for the next three years....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Is the Shape of our Government out of the hands of Voters?
    In the last stuff.co.nz / Ipsos Political Poll before Saturdays election, National is down 5.1% to 47.7% and Labour up 3.7% to 26.15%. These results are remarkably similar to the 2011 election where National received 47.3% of the vote and...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
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