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Open mike 02/10/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 2nd, 2021 - 178 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

178 comments on “Open mike 02/10/2021 ”

  1. Gezza 1

    For mary

    Seamus Shag

    Seamus is small, sleek, & black all over, apart from some white plumage on the front of the throat & his chin. He’s a Little Shag, according to NZ Birds Online.

    View post on imgur.com

    • Patricia Bremner 1.1

      Love the names Gezza. Very entertaining.

      We have a "mythical" cat according to friends who have never seen Mia, but observe her bed toys and bowl!!

      An orchard born year old nervous native when she came to us, she disappears at extra people machinery or strange vehicles.

      She is clean loving and plays like she always did, leaping and rolling in gay abandon even at 10 years. We enjoy your videos very much, keep them coming Cheers.

      • Gezza 1.1.1

        Thank you very much, Patricia. It’s lovely having all this free entertainment just over my back fence.

        I recommend you call your cat the Invisible Cat. I can well imagine what she is like. My brother had one (of their three cats) who was invisible. She just didn’t like visitors & would also disappear. If you were lucky you see the tip of her tabby tail disappearing around a corner or into the bushes.

        Spotted a very unusual bird in the stream this morning, but didn’t have my smartphone on me. By the time I got back to the fence it had moved upstream, foraging.

        At least twice the size of some nearby mallard & mallard/grey hybrid drakes. Black feathers, with some flashes of white, & a very red thick beak (not a “bill”, like the ducks’). Wonder if it might be a black goose? Never seen one here before.

        • Patricia Bremner

          In Australia they have moorehens. There are some here I believe.

          • Gezza

            Bingo! (I think.)

            Thanks Patricia, I’m pretty sure it’s a common moorhen. The dark colour& white flashes look right:


            I have a couple of video clips of it some distance away. I’ll either run it through the zoom option of my movie-making program on my older laptop, or take a still frame or two & crop & enlarge them online. That should confirm it.

    • mary_a 1.2

      Seamus Shag is a very busy little fella and delightful to watch. Thanks again Gezza, much appreciated.

  2. Jenny how to get there 2

    Morning must read:

    New Covid-19 modelling suggested that New Zealand could see up to 7000 Covid-19 deaths a year, even with a high proportion of the population jabbed. Explainer Editor Keith Lynch digs beneath the surface of those extremely worrying – and controversial – numbers.


  3. Sabine 3

    A submission is being made,

    and the person was allocated some 4-5 odd minutes, Person Russel, Other Person, and Male Human, are simply not a. paying attention, b. paying a modicum of respect, and

    for what its worth, it appears that murderers and rapists in NZ – men who have committed crimes as men – are now in prision in NZ as Non Males.

    These people are on the Government tit, have been for the most of their lifes on the government tit, for shame.

    This is the Labour Party, and the Green Party, in its truest form.

    That clip shows the true face of the parties involved in this removal of rigths from human beings that used to be known as 'women'. Btw, to any bloke who says this does not affect you? Do you have one of these humans at home? They might be your birthing partent, they might be your spouse, they might be your offspring, let me assure you in no uncertain terms this does affect you.

    And btw, rest assured that there is nothing in my case that the Non Male Leader of the Labour Party could ever say in regards to this bill that would ever re-assure me or would sound even the slightest bit 'believable'. Ditto for the Non Male Co Leader of the Green Party.

    Let's hope all, that we get the chance to vote in 2023, and let me assure you that my vote will go to whomever opposes this bullshit.

    Labour/Greens – Never! Again!

    • Gezza 3.1

      Good on Rex! A wahine toa indeed.

    • Molly 3.2

      Let's not ignore the abysmal time-keeping.

      Start around 3:53 to hear the attempts to interrupt begin before he says at 4:00 "You've had your five minutes."

      As for Deborah Russell MP:

      Leave the camera on. We've all seen women stretch before, it's not a big deal. (Alternatively, tell the truth – Rex Landy rightfully identified your behaviour.)

      • Sabine 3.2.1

        she was the one that called small business owners 'losers' last year in April during he first lockdown. I did not think that that person could show herself even more callous than that, but good grief, this is a supposed MP of the Country. And this person lives of our taxes and hard work.

        For shame Labour. For fucking shame.

        I have a bottle of whiskey that i auctioned off the Non Male PM of this country many years ago, when Andrew Little was polling at 5% for preferred Leader of this country, and i am honestly thinking that the best to do with it is to flush it down the drains. As the Labour party should be flushed down the drain.

        • weka

          I will always vote on the left, and as a strategic voter, I will vote Labour or teh GP to keep National out of power. But the left is in for a big wake up call come the next election. Just like Māori, women have their own political perspectives, needs and positions that don't always align with the mainstream political left, this is true even for left wing women. If the NZ left wing parties aren't watching what is happening to Labour, the GP and the Libdems in the UK over this (and they're probably not except through an ID pol lens), then they deserve what they get.

          • Bruce

            Same, since the Values Party I've always voted for the planet and a fair deal, but seeing this and getting some idea of what its all about, unless they bring back the McGillicuddys I'll be refraining in future.

            It is as if the inmates have taken over the asylum, Andrew Little with his steadfast adherence to reefer madness was already becoming impossible to support and in this clip he demonstrates why for a rational future its become necessary to vote Andrew out.

            • weka

              That's not Little in the video.

              I've voted GP for as long as they've been around, so it's a pretty big deal for me too.

          • TeWhareWhero

            They may get what they deserve but do the people of NZ deserve it – especially the economically vulnerable.

            • Sabine

              Women in prisons are being raped and inseminated – aka rendered pregnant – being offered abortions in prisons, because men who raped and killed can identify out of a male prison into a female prison and be given access to vulnerable persons who have no recourse, and have no right to privacy, bodily autonomy and safety.

              But then, its just some pesky non males. Right?

              • Joanne Perkins

                Oh please, if, and it's a big if, this is happening, then it sure as hell isn't being done by any trans woman.

                • Rex Landy

                  LoL they are men. Forever. Can never erase that Y.

                  The only way to be a woman is to have been born a girl. And no, we are not clownfish/seahorses/plants. Intersex want nothing to do with your claims about identity of men in dresses. Intersex is not an identity.


                  Check #ThisNeverHappens 😉

            • weka

              I'm hoping what they deserve is to be seriously challenged on what they are doing, but still win the election. I would never wish National on this country especially in the form they are in now. There's no evidence that National will roll back any of the gender ID legislation anyway.

          • Sabine

            No, there is no way any of these people will get my vote. I might lose any right to bodily autonomy (and that is what this bill is imo), any right to even just go to a toilet and in peace urinate or defecate, lose my right to a 'born female' to touch my body after a rape, and so on and so forth,

            but i will be damned if i vote for my subjugation, and put myself on the urinary leash all by myself.

            This video demonstrates the absolute disregards these persons form the so called 'left' aka Labour/Green have for the concerns of presons/peoples/others/karens (karens of all colors and creeds).

            If the left abandons what it stands for, is it then still the left?

            I have asked this before, how can anyone on the left condone the doings of Labour and the Greens if the same thing would be abhorrent to them under a National and Act government. And how can anyone vote for this, and pretend that National Act could be worse.

            And last but least, there are other alternatives to put a vote for then the FFP system that seems to still linger.

            This then is not a democracy, it is a demockery.

            • weka

              NACT would be worse because on top of this there would be all the other stuff NACT do – cut benefits, fuck with employment legislation, more dairy farms, much slower climate action and so on (pretty long list).

              I'm not seeing any evidence that NACT will reverse or amend the gender ID laws.

              • weka

                Does anyone know the Mp positioning?

              • Sabine

                if you have no more sex – and with that no more sex based rights, how would that affect

                a. benefits for 'women' if they are sex based?

                b. can a person with a functioning cervix/uterus be compelled by Winz to breed children for money as a career choice (Tamati Coffey atm is pushing for the commercialization of 'surrogacy')

                c. can transmen be drafted should there be a requirement

                d. can any case of 'sexual discrimination' be dismissed on the grounds of gender?

                e. transwomen be 'women' and thus diversity in businesses/parties be achieved (two entire male transwomen in Germany got elected on the Womens Roll if the German Green Party, thus before the persons of Germany ever achieved parity in that Party)

                f. can lactating persons be compelled to sell their human milk for money by Winz?

                g. can people be compelled into sex work (a career choice to some prostitution positive genderists) by Winz

                g. the climate is fucked and we need a better Green Party to change anything, at the moment the Green Party is not even able to understand basic biology, or at the very least is steadfastly refusing to admit biology in favour of 'self identity.

                these are just a few things that come to my mind,

                Sorry Weka, i know where you are coming from, and I voted for the Green Party in 2016 in honor of Metiria Turei. And unless something changes, and radically and quickly so, that was the last time i voted for them.

                • weka

                  Tell me how not voting GP or Labour in 2023 will prevent any of that. When you’ve done that I’ll make the argument for how the non vote will make things worse.

                  • Sabine

                    It wont' prevent it because it is already decided. The clip above shows that this is just for show – bread and circus and hey the people in that clip are paid to be there. I guess they call that ‘work’.

                    Thus tell me how not voting for the Greens or Labour would make it worse for us?

                    I will not be part of my own demise Weka. I will not be part of the subjugation of us, I will not be part of the group that will remove the rights that our kin, has fought for, got beaten for.

                    And above all tell me how the removal or our rights, the commercialization of the female reproductive organs, the 'rendering invisible of biological women' it can be good for society and the environment.

                    I can't stop it with my vote, but i can refuse to rubberstamp it. I will not be an enabler, the turnkey, the jailor to my own prison.

                    • weka

                      Every time we have a nine years of a National led government we lose ground in so many areas. There's not evidence that National won't also carry on with the gender ID pathways. Our main hope of change for the better for women in regards to gender ideology is to push back. This is *way easier under centre left governments thand RW ones, because under RW ones a lot more of women's energy/time/resources are tied up in surviving. This is doubly so for working and underclass women, single mothers, Māori, disabled women and so on.

                      That's the same argument about most things eg climate change. Real change happens outside parliament and then parliament has to follow. But it's even more important here, because of how the many of the women in Labour and the GP are. Taking power from them basically leaves neoliberal conservatives in power and they're not going to be acting in the best interests of women on any level.

                  • roblogic

                    Agree weka.. I see this identity stuff as foolish and wrongheaded but feel that solidarity on economic injustice is more pressing, and that despite all their flaws the current government's efforts to undo the legacy of Rogernomics is a worthy project.

                    The cries of the poor have been ignored for too long.

                    • Sabine

                      how many of the poor are persons/people/others/karens and their children?

                      and does it matter that now we not only deny their existance, we remove a few rights, and they are still poor.

                      let me put it this way, the Non Male Leader of the Green and the Labour Party will never use a public toilet, they will have the keys to the executive suite, or maybe use the loo in the Korou lounge, you and i however will have no such luck, we will have to go into unisex toilets with urinals next to the handwash basins and the men will still have their mens.

                      This Genderquatsch will mostly – i would even go so far and say ONLY harm vulnerable and poor non males and their children.
                      And if taken to he extreme will sterilise and castrate the children of the poor, the neuro diverse, the ‘non conforming’ children.

                    • roblogic

                      I worry for my young nieces growing up in a deeply sexist, body-negative, gender-confused culture, weaponised by Instagram. There are some really bad stories coming out of Australia and Scotland about families being torn apart and women silenced.

                      Feel like we have to choose the lesser of two evils. Keeping the complete whack jobs of National and Act out of power is actually an existential demand for vulnerable NZers. Covid running rampant (as FJK etc are advocating) will kill thousands, mainly the poor, elderly, and people with other health problems. Housing will be made 10x worse. Inequality will be ignored. Health and education will be slashed and sold off. We will be distracted by massive rugby and sailing spectacles while all the problems are swept under the carpet.

                      Hold your nose and vote Left.

                    • Sabine

                      I will vote for social credit, legalise aotearoa, or something like that.

                      but i will not vote for people that take rights away form us humans that were formerly known as women. Never. I will not be complicit in my own demise.

                    • Di Landy []

                      Let's get a women's party started. Te Paati Maori is TWAW. I didn't vote for them to tell me women have a penis and men get pregnant. GP DGAF about the environment. Virtue signaling to the max. 9 in James entourage, flying o/s. Not to mention the dreaded Covids. Labour has lost their way. Natscum. ACT blame the poor for being poor and are Hobson's Pledge type of folk. So what is left. All the GC ♀️ to ruin their ballot? I wholeheartedly agree. I will not be complicit in my erasure

                    • Rex Landy

                      We're always the first to suffer in times like this – however, this identity 'politics' is a $34 trillion industry, Big Pharma love the #LifeLongPatient model it affords. Whereas sex is observed at birth, matters regarding healthcare and spaces where both sexes deserve privacy.

                      There are currently 1200 girls waiting for radical double mastectomy/hormones/puberty blockers in our gender clinic currently…. this is taking healthy breasts away bc of a mental illness (it's in the DSM-V).

                  • Sabine

                    I understand that you must believe what you believe.

                    But i would like you again to look at the above clip, keep in mind the video of kerekere 'terfing' submitters, and tell me why again you think that these people will care.

                    Btw, I see no difference between Labour and National. Non of the raises in benefits have kept up with rising living costs and rental costs. No houses have been build, but the government has 'bought' houses of the market thus contributing to high house costs. Despite some crappy sandwiches in school – when school is actually on, child hood poverty is through the roof, because their parents are not keeping up with rising living costs and high rental costs/mortgages. Healthcare even without Covid was and still is a mess. Corrections a mess. Poor old people are still deciding if they should eat, have medication or heat as they still can't afford all of these things in one pay cycle.

                    You vote for the Green Party, go ahead, but so far you have not given me any reason to vote for them again. And the sad stage of the environment is not working anymore, no more then' national will be worse.

                    The last time national was having the reigns they did not try to put us back in to the 'seen but not heard box' that Labour and the Greens will put us in favor of the feelings for the generally het men with a fetish.

                    Also, can you explain to me if men are women, will they still be women when women have no longer rights, or will they revert back to men?

                    As i said, i will not be an enabler to the undoing of my sex, the few rights that i and those like me have, not even under the false premise that 'national will be worse' or that 'the greens will save the environment'. Not good enough.

                    • Sabine, much of the foundation for SSID was laid under National / ACT governments. This has been happening since 1995. What's happening now in relation to BCs is the last card in the hand of formal and social rights needed to trump biological sex with the notion of gender identity.

                      I'm with you in relation to there being very important wider implications to the integrity of sex-based rights but when you suggest that a Labour government would force women to bear children, enter sex work, or sell breast milk etc, I'm afraid you lose me.

                      To me, the biggest threat in all of this comes from the generation of a socially conservative backlash – that will be surfed by crackpot extremist libertarians.

                    • Sabine


                      It happened already in England, during the Financial crisis some years ago where Jobcentres had job offers for Strippers and Lapdancers. Outrage ensued, and it was then banned in 2010, but it happened. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-10831614

                      So when i point to these scenarios it is not that Labour will do that or the Greens or National for that matter or any coalition, but that anyone could potentially use what ever legislation comes from it. Once it is legal, and sex is no longer protected, what then. What next.

                      Like for example, if men can get undressed (fully intact males) in the sauna, or spa area for women, then that would also lead to remove 'indecent exposure' for example, as clearly men do not have to undergo a gender re-assignement surgery in order to be women. So there will be huge legal changes as consequence of these changes.

                      So apart from the very obvious, these questions still stand, can and will people be compelled into these situations?

                      And so far, no one has given any assurance that it won't be irrespective of the colors of the government du jour.

                • Sue Middleton

                  I voted Labour or Green all my life. I am now politically homeless. I taught women’s and gender studies courses at university for more than thirty years. Sex and gender have been core and distinct concepts in sociology since the 1970s. Yet we are not ‘allowed’ to discuss these in political contexts unless we parrot ridiculous mantras like ‘trans women are women’ ( trans women are biological males with gender dysphoria). The role of a select committee is to hear and consider evidence. I am appalled by the behaviour of the BDMR select committee members – sneering at submitters they dislike and failing to give even the appearance of listening to groups like Speak Up for Women. Watch Deborah Russell and Elizabeth Kerekere during that and some other submissions. I left the Green Party this year when disagreement with gender self ID was termed hate speech. Im extremely unlikely to be able to vote Labour again after this mockery of democratic process. Ant vote NACT so looking for a leftie protest option.

                  • weka

                    great to see you here Sue. Your submission was heartening and inspiring. So wonderful to know FOWL are organising around this.

              • francesca

                The trouble is Weka, Labour and the Greens will see it as an endorsement of their policies if they do get back in.

                We really don't have much leverage unless we collectively threaten to withdraw our votes .A huge fuss needs to be made so as to embarrass them and make them reconsider. It looks almost to me as well that Auckland is starting to come apart.Brazen non compliance and defiance of public health orders, what with that utter idiot Tamaki and the protest at the Domain today

                Bang goes all the govt's covid credit if it falls apart.The restriction of our freedom in a public health emergency is the one scenario when community obedience is rational.That we can't even do that anymore gives me little hope of a spirit of collectivism to solve all our other problems

                • weka

                  A huge fuss needs to be made so as to embarrass them and make them reconsider

                  Completely agree with this.

                  If women don't vote and NACT get in, do you believe that Labour and the GP will pin that on gender ID pol? I don't. The non-vote will disappear into the rest of the non-vote that no-one talks about and if the ideology is still strong in those parties, there will be a strong motivation to stay in denial (assuming the protest non-vote as any impact). And yes, way easier to blame on things like covid failures.

                  But hey ho, we should probably be talking strategy about what to do between now and then so it doesn't come to there.

                  • Sabine

                    why would you assume that we don't vote, by not voting for the 'supposed left' ?

                    MMP is the game in town, NZfirst, Maori Party, Legalise Aotearoa, Social Credits etc can all be voted for.

                    They might not make it in, but sometimes it is better to lose then to be complicit.

                    And the best thing that can happen to any of the more prominent parties is to be so small that they must go into a coalition. And that can't happen if people vote by default rather then on issues. And undoing womens rights, endangering womens in their daily lifes, work, and sport, are issues that are currently laughed out of the door by the Ministers of the Green Party and the Labour Party.

                  • francesca

                    But hey ho, we should probably be talking strategy about what to do between now and then so it doesn't come to there.

                    So what do you think

                    amplifying the issue on social media ?

                    (which I keep far away from)

                    Letter writing to MP's? local papers and the Listener

                    Discussing at branch level ? Contacting local Green candidate.

                    I think they need to be warned , because they will lose heaps of women voters

                    • Sue Middleton

                      There is a media blackout on this issue unless it’s a ‘my beautiful trans kid’ story. Gender critical views don’t get published. I’m not part of Speak Up for Women, but any coverage they have had misrepresents their views. I attended one of their public meetings on the Bill and found a pleasant group of women providing a clear and accurate summary of the main points in the gender self ID clauses in it. Some transsexual women (ie medically transitioned male-to female people) were with them in support. I cannot and will not toerate the shutting down of women’s voices on this issue. I’ve been a feminist lol my adult life and, although we have often been ridiculed and misunderstood in the past, we have never been shut down or had our views banned until now. I can’t understand how this is happening. And I certainly won’t vote for a political party whose MPsinsulge in this kind of behaviour.

                • weka

                  Bang goes all the govt's covid credit if it falls apart.The restriction of our freedom in a public health emergency is the one scenario when community obedience is rational.That we can't even do that anymore gives me little hope of a spirit of collectivism to solve all our other problems

                  Wanted to address this separately. This is why the GP vote will be important. What we are seeing is the divisions from decades of neoliberal ignoring of social unrest and poverty. If we get a Labour governent next time and the Greens are out of parliament, hands up who thinks that Labour will move left and address poverty or housing?

                  • Sabine

                    Is the Non Male Leader of the Green Party not some associate minister for the homeless and housing?

                    Why is then the Green Party wasting precious time and resources telling women that they are subcategory now of their own sex class so that men can pretend to be women and be given unfettered access to all and any spaces that used to be single sex, under the guise of inclusion of some while excluding those that came before. Colonisation is a good word for what the Greens and the Labour Party are currently doing. Colonising womens spaces for men.

                    And knowing that the Greens will enable the next Labour Government should the need arise, why are they not leveraging this knowledge now in regards to housing, homelessness and poverty? After all they have no issues working together in removing the sex based rights of Non Males in this country.

                    • weka

                      Half the left want them to go harder on socioeconomics, the other half want them to stop and focus solely on the environment 🤷‍♀️

                    • weka

                      Genter today on transport, urban development and climate, in case anyone criticising the Greens wants to know what they are actually doing.

                    • Sabine

                      @ Weka,

                      Has the green party released a statement in regards to the atrocious behavior of the Green Party members, such as KereKere and her 'terf' youtube video?

                      that right now is the only statement i would like to see, and also i would like to see that from the Labour Party.

                      A short, concise statement that will be clear that this attitude as evidenced in the video above, will not be tolerated, that the people who will make their statements will be treated with respect, fairly, and will not be spoken over or have their times cut short, and above all will not be insulted with the term 'terf' or called transphobic.

                      As for Deborah Russels tweet about not giving a fuck, well maybe someone in Labour Leadership should tell her that is is really not smart to admit to the public that while you like the wage you don't wanna do the work.

          • Di Landy

            Time to start a left women's party. Who knows how to do this. Let's start one. What do we need to make this a reality? I'm keen. I'll join. Let's get it started

            • weka

              Personally I'd rather see a coalition of flax roots organisations arise first, strong and stable. Several years of those doing media work, public meetings, submissions and so on might change things.

              I'm impressed with the groups that have been submitting this round. Bodes well. Am also very impressed with the rise of grass roots feminism in the UK.

      • weka 3.2.2

        what a fucking shambles. If SCs are normally like this, I'm even more shocked. And then people wonder why most people don't bother with engaging with government.

    • Brigid 3.3

      I believe it was obvious Russell wasn't listening.

      A person with a modicum of respect would have waited till the presenter had finished her submission, a matter of minutes, to 'stretch her back'

      And once Rex had been unceremoniously been shut down, they then all had a jolly good laugh.

      They disgust me.

      • Sabine 3.3.1

        yes, that last bit was where they showed their true faces.

      • francesca 3.3.2

        Did the man say "Don't worry Deborah, you got away with it"

        then they all had a good laugh

        • Sabine

          yes it seems like he did.

        • Molly

          That's what I heard too.

          The cynic in me thinks they would by now be tech-savvy enough to ensure the video was off first, but they didn't because they wanted to show a public rebuff after the submitter was no longer on screen.

          Unprofessional, cowardly or both.

    • millsy 3.4

      If you dig deep enough, you will find that Rex (typically a male name?) is probably having her chain jerked by the Christian Right.

      See seems to have scrubbed her Google history? Perhaps she doesnt want people to find out what she really thinks?

      • Brigid 3.4.1


        How did you come to that conclusion?

        How does one scrub ones google history?

        • Rex Landy

          He's got to have some cromulent excuse as to why I'm not in favour of children being sterilised, or the $34 trillion Big Pharma medical industrial complex medicalising people for profit. 😉

          Jennifer Bilek has written extensively on this. #LifelongPatients once you have the kids, see.

          Follow the $

        • Sabine

          soap and hot water does wonders i hear.

      • Rex Landy 3.4.2

        LMFAO you can fuck off all the way with 'Christian Right'. I was raped by a priest at the age of four with Catholic maths (35 DOES go into 4) so if you think I have anything to do with the Whore of Rome you can think again. Or any Xian bs.

        I'm still laughing as I type – google me and you will find the dozens of OIA requests and 'footprint' you believe I've had scrubbed away… I'm a professional nobody, have complex mental health needs and damage after my childhood rape – not every outcome has been good for me, see? Can't put my finger on it, but after four years old, it was a mixed bag. They DID give me a fabulous education though so that's a bonus. 😉 Not my shame to carry, so I'll just put it out there straight away, bro. LMAO.

      • roblogic 3.4.3

        what a racist and sexist comment. as if a mana wahine does not have her own opinion.

      • Sabine 3.4.4

        Can you please provide a link to substantiate your claim?

        A lot of people in this country are religious. Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, all sorts of different Christian denominations, and certainly a few more that i am forgetting.

        Are you saying that if a person has issues with being delegated to the dustbin of history and stripped of their rights they must be a supporter of the Christian right? Really?

        And Rex is a manly name too? Damn her, being so gender non conform.

        Maybe she should identify as a male and run for the Male Co Leadership of the Green Party?

      • Di Landy 3.4.5

        😆😆people who can't believe hell have no fury like a ♀️.

        I can assure you Rex is all woman and pulling her own chain. How far are you gonna dig to believe your own ears?

      • Molly 3.4.6

        If you are right, and you may well be, but you have no evidence that you are… What you have in front of you, is her submission. And what you are able to comment on, is the content of her submission.

        To pass judgement on this person, on a posit of possibility when you know nothing else but what she says here, is a way of dismissing what she says without addressing it.

        (This does not hold true for public figures however, where we hold many examples of their behaviour and speech. But Rex Landry is not, AFAIK, a public figure and your reference to their non-existent Google history equating to be taken in by the Christian Right is a bad conjecture to make.)

      • weka 3.4.7

        See what happens when you make stupid, partisan assumptions in a political forum.

        Lefties, men in particular, might want to ask themselves why they find it so hard to believe or accept that left wing women have their own strong politics when it comes to gender/sex. The connection between GC women/feminists with the religious right is a bullshit line run by gender identity activists. It won't work on TS because there are too many left wing women here, long term Standardistas, who are informed and highly politicised on the issue.

        • SPC

          Probably because in the USA opposition to transgender rights is one taken up by the political right – GOP, which has strong Christian conservative connotations (and connection to their historic position in rights for same sex people).

          It’s not the only issue in which there is a coalition of diverse groups.

          • weka

            The biggest grouping of gender critical feminists is in the UK, and this is far more relevant to NZ than the US. Gender ID activists call the UK Terf Island. It's not a secret. Anyone who says that those women are allied to the religious right are either willfully ignorant or lying.

            The US is a different situation, but how on earth Millsy made a connection between that and this Wahine Māori is beyond me.

            • SPC

              Sure the GOP's conservative females are not at the centre of feminist discourse.

              But I wonder if some on the liberal left are not being misled by this, as maybe millsy is, and not thinking the issue through a little more.

              For example I was on side with some on the inclusion of transgender concerns at the Auckland event, but this does not inform my position on fair competition in sport or women’s safety.

              • weka

                But I wonder if some on the liberal left are not being misled by this, as maybe millsy is, and not thinking the issue through a little more.

                How so? Who are the liberal left in this context?

                • SPC

                  In the perception that concern about the proposed legislation comes from the conservatives who resisted equal place for those of same sex attraction in society (and recognition of their relationships).

                  The attitude of the Labour and Green MP's (support for proposed legislation) on the SC is indicative that they see the transgender issue as one of inclusion of society diversity within the civil liberties/human rights orbit. Thus they see any resistance to the legislation as coming from those on the wrong side of history.

                  Thus nuance is lost for the sake of political conformity to established liberal (open to socially progressive change) vs conservative (resistance to such change until it is normalised/accepted by the mainstream) positioning.

                  • Rex Landy

                    The hilarious* thing is, this self-determination ID has been (wilfully?) misused. It's a piece of international law that applies to PEOPLE, as in A PEOPLE the right to self determination. The international human rights lawyer Rosa Freedman submitted on it. It is a glorious, erudite and composed laying out of the law. Nicola Grigg was paying attention and writing things down; I heard her murmur 'that was important'.

                    • weka

                      I'm hoping to do a post on the submissions, making them very accessible to people with links and time stamps so people can pick out the ones they want to read/watch. Even just finding them has been hard going. Looking forward to watching Rosa (one of my favourite GCFs) and getting up to speed with that particular issue.

                  • weka

                    thanks for clarifying SPC. That makes sense and is similar to how I see it.

      • Cricklewood 3.4.8

        Best to ignore Millsy he's got a long history of making up shit about people… tbh I'm suprised moderation hant had a word about the reckons on Rex…

        • Rex Landy

          I get it's difficult to countenance a woman filled with fury 😉 LoLz. I know if he's looked at my video he knows I'm a woman and he is a bit of a korero tutae. Thanks bro.

  4. Gezza 4


    The Government has confirmed it is scrapping plans for a $785 million cycle bridge across Auckland's Harbour in response to public pressure, and will instead use the money on projects such as speeding up the Eastern Busway.

    In early August, the NZ Herald reported the cycle bridge was poised to be scrapped after strong public opposition to the cost of it and revelations the benefit to cost ratio was very low.

    Transport Minister Michael Wood has now confirmed the controversial Northern Pathway will not go ahead. "It did not get the public support needed for a project of its scale, and we acknowledge that."

    Thank goodness. Sanity has prevailed !


    • Sabine 4.1

      That bridge was never gonna be build in the first place, and well some knew and some others….believed.

      It was a little exercise in divide and conquer, smoke screen building and kerfuffle to not actually discuss the matters that matter.

      But hey, for a while people believed that they would get a golden bridge to nowhere.

      Next smokescreen please.

    • KJT 4.2

      Insanity, building ever more motorways, has prevailed over a piece of infrastructure which would have reduced carbon emissions for the next 80 years.

      Sanity has not prevailed.

      It shows the problem with building carbon reducing infrastructure, when there is a chorus of unthinking protest, against spending even a fraction of the billions spent on motorways.

      Mis information and utter bullshit has prevailed. As it does to often, spread by our wilfully ignorant and self opinionated media egged on by a right wing that would rather our country fails, than lose power.

      • Sabine 4.2.1

        A busway in highly populated areas is a better investment then a bike bridge.

        Free public transport would be a good investment, but it will not happen.

        The real insanity however is that it seems people believe that we can shove even more poeple into AKL and that they all need to go downtown to earn their pennies.

        As Covid right now shows us, Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

        I have been saying for a long long time now, that government should incentivize businesses to settle elsewhere and thus take the workers with them. this would actually revive some areas of this country, relieve the pressure on Auckland and maybe even lead to a better and healthier usage of our environment.

        In the meantime tho, 1.6 odd million people are on Home D with one hour of outdoor exercise, permitted take away and 'work from home' or under severe restriction go to town and office/shop.

        And no this bridge was not only disliked by the rightwing. I think you will see that polling showed labour that even lefties (and not all lefties are labour supporters ) just saw this as a diversion and pipe dream.

        And fwiw, we need cycle ways. Lots of them. And in this case i would say, that the first step to get people to cycle over the bridge is to liberate a lane or two for cyclists. Permanently.

        • Molly


          One day, Sabine, it'd be nice to meet.

        • Ad

          NZTA has ruled out a dedicated cycle lane on the Auckland Harbour Bridge.

          If the Minister turns public transport infrastructure into a popularity contest, nothing will happen except building more roads because that's what people want.

          Where that leads is to continue NZ as one of the most car-polluted, unsafe, car-addicted countries on earth.

          • Sabine

            well, fear not Ad, soon there will only be electric cars, for those that can afford electric cars. The rest will walk, cycle, skateboard or use the bus.

            NZTA needs to pull its fingers out of the proverbial and liberate a lane, and if only to actually gauge the real usage of that lane and thus be able in the future to build a dedicated cycle over that harbour.

            But frankly it is easier for central town people to take a ferry with their bikes across the harbour than it would be for people on the outer edges of auckland to get into town with a car.

            • Gezza

              FWIW, I’ve decided it’s time to trade in my 16 year-old Mitsubishi Colt Plus, & I’m about to start researching which similarly-sized hybrid petrol/electric vehicle to replace it with.

              I’m not going with an EV. The nation-wide charging infrastructure’s not sufficiently built yet.

              Also, I’ve heard murmurs that disposing of old electric batteries is very problematic, & a cuz-in-law who’s an AA patrolman also told me just yesterday that he was told the amount of carbon released in the construction of EVs far exceeds that of the building + several years’ running of an efficient, standard petrol-powered auto.

              (And do you have to get a charging station installed in your own home garage, anyone know?)

              • Sabine

                I never had a car to begin with, even while living in Auckland for 20 odd years and i worked downtown, newmarket and other places. Always got where ever i wanted to on public transport, cycling and walking. It can be done if the infrastructure is there.

              • Patricia Bremner

                Gezza we have a 2006 Toyota Ractis. We are keeping it as it is 1350hp, and easy to get in and out.. seats are high. The back seats are able to lie flat to take a wheelchair walker etc. It is an economical automatic. We are awaiting a comparable model. Still waiting.

                • Andre

                  1350hp out of a Ractis ???!!!?

                  Jaeeezzuss, you must really be the deadly granny sleeper-car at track days. How do you get that much power down to the ground?

                  • Patricia Bremner

                    Lol My bad Andre, not hp should be 1.5L

                    • Andre

                      smiley Actually I kinda rate the Ractis. A couple of family members have been looking for small city runabouts and we settled on a Ractis as being the best answer for what was needed and wanted. And as a bonus, they actually go OK on the open road, too.

                      If you are seriously thinking about going electric, it looks to me like holding off for a year or two would be a good move. The electric choice right now is really limited and expensive, but there's a lot of chatter about things in the pipeline that might arrive in the next year or two that really are big improvements on what's available now and probably cheaper.

              • Andre

                sigh someone with a vested interest in internal combustion engines repeats some oil industry misinformation talking points and all of a sudden it's gospel …


                Yes, producing a battery electric vehicle does produce more emissions that producing an ICE vehicle, but how much more really depends on the electricity supply of where it's produced. If a battery electric vehicle were produced then used somewhere like Poland where close to 100% of the electricity supply is coal-fired, then it would take somewhere around 8 to 10 years to be lower lifetime emissions than an ICE. If it were produced and run using 100% zero-emissions electricity, the battery electric electric would have lower lifetime emissions than an ICE in less than a year. Personally, I'd work off of two years as a rough estimate for a BEV produced overseas and used in New Zealand.

                There's plenty of attention and interest in electric vehicle battery recycling, starting with simply repurposing them to stationary storage when they're no longer good enough for the extreme demands of EV use. For example, Nissan Leaf batteries getting used in Nissan factories:


                Then there's plenty of efforts going into direct recycling. Such as Redwood Materials, founded by J.B. Straubel, one of Tesla's founders. Their initial feedstock was rejects from Tesla battery production, which was really the only regular large quantity supply of batteries for recycling. There simply haven't been enough electric vehicles produced yet for there to really be enough end-of-life batteries to be recyled for anyone to make a business out of it, but there's plenty of companies gearing up to take that really valuable "waste" stream and turn it back into useful raw material. A simple google search on electric vehicle battery recycling will get you tons of info.

                If you're looking for a Colt-sized EV with useful range and a palatable price, there really aren't any here in NZ, yet. Closest might be a Renault Zoe or Peugeot e-208, both somewhere on the wrong side of $60k after the Clean Car rebate.

                But BYD are making noises about maybe releasing their EA1 (Dolphin) into NZ maybe next year, which would likely be somewhere around the $40k mark. There's a few others on the horizon as well.

                Home charging can be done from a regular 240V outlet. Figure on adding 15km of range for every hour of charge. The next common option is a 7kW charger that most houses could cope with with boosting the house supply. Dunno about pricing, but if you forced me to guess I'd guess somewhere around the $3k mark installed.

                Cost-wise, there's the potential imposition of Road User Charges that electric vehicles would have to pay starting March 2024 IIRC. Right RUC are 7.6 cents per km, which is just a tiny bit less than I pay for petrol for my Honda Fit hybrid. For me, that bit of transport policy stupidity would be a real obstacle to get over were I in the market for wheels right now.

                But if my Fit hybrid were to be written off in a crash, I'd seriously think about a Prius plug-in hybrid. The first generation plug-in (3rd generation Prius body) gets somewhere around 15km pure-electric range, pricing starts from around $13k, while the second generation plug-in gets around 50km pure electric range, prices start around $35k. Most hybrids use Atkinson cycle engines, which basically give diesel levels of fuel efficiency without the diesel exhaust nasties.

                Colt-size hybrids are mostly limited to the Toyota Aqua (everyone will think you're an Uber Eats driver) or Honda Fit. I bought my Fit hybrid in April this year, because on my test-drives it just suited me better than the Aqua. But that's just me.

                • Gezza

                  Thanks for all this info, Andre. 👍🏼

                  Bloody awesome.

                  My current car is a 1.5 L Mitsi Colt Plus. It’s got an extended back boot, lots more space with the rear sets flat, quite a bit bigger than a standard Mitsi Colt.

                  • Andre

                    Ah, I'd missed that a Colt plus was longer than a regular Colt.

                    There's the Shuttle version of the Honda Fit that's pretty much the same idea. Available in hybrid and regular drivetrains as used Jap imports.

                    A Prius is still quite a jump up in size, about 65mm wider and 150 to 300mm longer than your Colt plus.

        • lprent

          The real insanity however is that it seems people believe that we can shove even more poeple into AKL and that they all need to go downtown to earn their pennies.

          The city largely lies on a isthmus is between two harbours and two oceans. The city spreads way past the two ends of the isthmus.

          The harbour bridge is currently the only short in distance and time route between major population and employment centres (areas in and near to the Auckland isthmus and those on the North shore) – unless you want to go 30+kms around SH16/SH18 on the upper harbour.

          It has nothing to do with adding more people into Auckland – it simply has to do with being able to connect the existing people with their existing employment.

          The centre of Auckland is also a major centre for concentrated employment because it is equally accessible to people from the North, South, East, and West of Auckland because it is at the isthmus and the transport links that centre there. It can draw on the skills of the whole city.

          Just as an aside to that, I recently turned down permanent jobs in the North Shore both up towards Albany/Rosedale. That was simply because the transport situation was so much of an issue. I live up by the Ponsonby/K Rd intersection – right by the motorways and with good access to all public transport except for rail (at least until the CRL is completed).

          On a good pandemic run, it would take me 18-20 minutes by car to get to those jobs. When I tracked the actual times on google that I'd normally travel. It would take between 30 minutes to 90 minutes by car. In the past it has taken me up to 120 minutes when I worked out there for a few years – and I got badly hit by other cars twice over 2 years. Driving a car is pure dead time. Doing it for 15 hours a week on top of actual work is just a waste of my time.

          By bus it was about 75 minutes each way. Not a complete waste of time – I can read a book in a bus. I can even sort of play on the blogs – albeit rather painfully. 12 hours or so a week would be just irritating.

          By e-bike it would be around 85 minutes if I took a ferry – where the ferry timings was the main time constraint. If there was a bridge crossing it would take about 60 minutes – because the whole route is much more direct and less hilly than landing at at Bayswater road. At least that would have taken care of my exercise – something else a car or a bus simply doesn’t do. However I’m not sure that I’m interested in that much exercise each day.

          A busway in highly populated areas…

          The eastern suburbs are actually a reasonably lightly populated part of Auckland becasue there is not that much depth in the surrounding suburbs.

          If you wanted to put a busway into a highly populated area, then you'd fast track the one up the existing North-western motorway, and put a busway and cycle lane up the existing Southern Motorway. Both of those have large population catchment areas, and far far significiant employment opportunities. Both would benefit from a busway (and cycle ways) far more than the south eastern suburb corridors.

          The only reason that they are putting one into the eastern area is because they are currently upgrading the arterial roads out that way to cope with a relatively small population increase in density. I also looked at a job out towards East Tamaki. The public transport sucked, and there are no safe bikeways.

          I have been saying for a long long time now, that government should incentivize businesses to settle elsewhere and thus take the workers with them.

          That is a pipe-dream. I thought that may have been possible when I was looking at it in the 1990s. Experience has taught me that it almost certainly isn’t possible for most people employed in productive private businesses – even the ones that I work in who are primarily focused offshore. Quite simply there are reasons that make it preferable to live in larger centres, and I don’t have to move somewhere to work there. I can increasingly remote into the jobs in smaller centres.

          Eventually I took a job in Hamilton – and I don't have to settle there. Mostly remote working from Auckland. I'm not even working at home – I'm renting a local workspace 300m from home. That is because two of us working on different jobs in a smallish apartment is just too irritating. When I'm trying to get a concentrated bit of work done, my partner is on a long and loud conversation with her gig-job employers in New York or Invercargill, or where ever. Or talking to a Indian distributor or chasing down supplies. She says that my standup conversations about work with whomever I'm working with (also worldwide) are just as irritating.

          Whenever the lockdowns cease, I'll be in Hamilton 2 days a week for a while. By car that is about 85 minutes each way and a airBnB overnight. If the Te Huia train went from Auckland to Hamilton in the morning and came back in the evening (rather than the other way around), I'd use that. It might take 150 minutes each way – but I can work on a train.

          However I'm unlikely to move to Hamilton. As a skilled worker, that would be employment and financial suicide.

          In Auckland in the private sector there are at least several hundred firms that I could work for, in person or remote, with my current skills. In Hamilton where I went to uni, even with its current rapid expansion, then are probably 30-40. In Dunedin where I also went to university, maybe 20. Smaller cities like Rotorua or Palmerston North – there would only be a couple.

          The choice as an employee, the choice is so much smaller because I have a smaller selection if I need to be there in person. And most employers would prefer you to be there in person. Despite spending a lot of my working life working remotely, I prefer working at a workplace – provided i don’t have to waste much of own hours getting to and from that workplace.

          Being close to large urban areas give more choice about where you work locally, what you can work on, and who you work for. From the choices of employers to the quality of your transport and data links.

          This doesn't apply just to the excessively skilled like me. If you're a worker at almost anything beyond retail work these days, you're increasingly skilled and more specialised than anything in the past. The idea of moving people around and training them like identical dominoes has gone the way of conscription – for exactly the same reason. All enterprises rely on their skilled staff and their skilled staff will move between companies multiple times during their working life.

          Doing the remote work internationally is much the same. The work may be done over a data link. But those are much much more reliable in urban centres – I only have to look at the quality of links of people in zoom or google meet to know that.

          Being able to pop down to Jaycar or PBTech and lay your hands on gear immediately is far easier than having to wait for increasingly erratic deliveries (or whatever your working needs are) is worth its weight in gold for productivity.

          Basically, I'll probably move out of Auckland when I retire. It is the minimum that I can get away with. Ideally I should have moved offshore decades ago – but I prefer living here rather than in Austin Texas or Silicon Valley or the Silicon Slopes. And I'm in one of the more transportable professions.

          • Sabine

            I do agree with you, i myself chose Auckland for reasons of work when i moved to NZ.

            But is that not the issue now, that AKL can't build up fast enough and can't get enough public transport now to move those people that move in. And that will not get any better in the future.

            I pretty much lived my whole life in big towns, but living in Holland actually opened my eyes a bit what can be done if Government works with businesses.

            I.e. Hilversum, a medium sized town 35 km from A-dam and 15 km away from Utrecht. When Nike closed their individual houses in the various european countries to open a Europen Headquaters in Holland, they were 'directed' to Hilversum rather then say A-dam, Rotterdam, etc. They were granted 600 carparks for something like 1800 people plus visitors and sales people that would come and go. But the government also provided extra trains to Hilversum, more train arrivals and departures, and a new trainstop across from the Office building to make up for the lack of carparks. Train tickets are tax refundable as a business expense, and thus were at the time paid for by Nike. Why? Any extra carpark that Nike wanted to build after the 600 granted would have come at an extra cost.

            Sometimes it feels as if we had tried nothing really and now are out of option. And again, i am not even against a cycling bridge, i cycled in Auckland in 1998 – lol when there were no cycle roads.

            I just believe that putting all of our economy in one town is a sure way to disaster if something happens. Like Covid.

            And i only left Auckland as Virgil got offered a job as an IT person here in Rotorua, otherwise i would still be there, for pretty much all the reasons you mentioned.

            • lprent

              Yeah Auckland has issues.

              Many, if not most, of them are related to a council with a business (with a small b) focus that ran the cities and region for decades. Plus a central government that kept hoping Auckland would get smaller if they didn't put money into it. They put money mostly into regions where their voters were.

              More recently, it has had a central government interested in raking in immigration money and then dispersing it not in infrastructure or realistic housing development – but into tax cuts. It meant that most of the immigration wound up in Auckland (for the reasons I outlined), but a minimum of things required to grow.

              But even if they tried to, there is another problem. One that makes it difficult for even try to push things towards dispersal rather than Auckland getting bigger.

              The problem is that NZ is made up of small companies – there are no Nikes. Almost all of them are small by any international standards. Just consider this statement from stats nz in 2018.

              less than 1 percent of enterprises (2,560) had 100 or more employees, but they engaged 48 percent of all employees in New Zealand

              The stats tend to cut off at 100 employees. If you look for a definition of mid-sized businesses in NZ, you tend to find statements like this.

              The definition of mid-size businesses varies from country to
              country. It’s important to note that there is no official definition
              for a MSB in New Zealand. Across the world mid-size businesses
              tend to be defined as having between 20 and 200 employees.
              However, New Zealand has a much smaller economy and
              population than most comparable highly-developed market

              With this in mind, for the purposes of our research New
              Zealand’s mid-size businesses have been defined as having
              revenue between $5m and $30m, and/or employing between
              20 and 99 people.

              If you dig around the stats for what the larger employee company sizes are, you’ll find that they are also small to mid sized enterprises. They might have thousands of employees – but they are scattered in little pockets throughout the country – like banking, supermarkets, reale state, or even Fonterra. We don’t have many single enterprise sites the size of the Nike operation you mention. They are in fact multiple small or mid-sized companies.

              So those companies don’t draw staff to them. They go to where they can get staff or customers. They have little to no interest in drawing either towards them because they simply don't have the scale to do it. Even our larger companies are below the scale of Nike. That is why virtually every government push to move people out of the larger cities has failed.

              The ones that have succeeded over the long term were those that were based around raw materials, natural advantages or scenery – electricity for the smelter, oil and gas for New Plymouth, tourism for Rotorua and Queenstown. The port for Tauranga. Even then most of them only managed to stave off relative population decreases.

              Company towns like Tokoroa started drying again as a their business changed. The only new company town I know of is that mattress company who are trying to build in the Waikato.

              Meanwhile a city like Auckland which only has a harbour as a natural asset has to develop despite a historically lacklustre set of councils and National governments who, mainly for electoral reasons, wished it didn't exist.

      • Molly 4.2.2

        Climate change mitigation is not justification for this proposal.

        Not all alternative transport systems are the same in regards to that.

        That is not to say that planning should not include as a matter of course, recreational cycleways, walkable neighbourhoods etc. The immense value to users of mental and physical wellbeing, and improved social cohesion have been researched and validated.

        However, it is the alternative transport systems available to commuters that will get the most people out of cars. The provision of affordable, reliable, efficient public transport systems that enable people to get to work, study, services, sports is the climate change mitigator. Not a bridge crossing that is an addition to the already successful alternatives for the harbour crossing that include the Northern Busway and ferries. The inner city community is already well served in that respect.

        This is a choice of assessing the inequality that has come from very bad city and transport planning in the past, and making future choices that do not increase that inequality further.

        Would this money have come from the Auckland fuel tax? I'd be interested to know.

        However, even if it didn't… isn't there something fundamentally wrong with ignoring the fact that it is the lower income households that have to move further and further out of Auckland, travel further to get to work, school etc and therefore pay more of their income on this fuel tax than those that have the privilege to be able to live and work in close proximity? (and are more likely to have travel costs included as an employment benefit

        Shouldn't we be spending on improving services for the wider Auckland population before giving an expensive additional harbour crossing for the recreational benefit of an already well-serviced community?

        The short answer is Yes.

      • Ad 4.2.3

        I cannot think of the last time a Minister had the balls to take the credit for failure on the scale and spin it so that he's just doing what the public wants.

      • Alan 4.2.4

        we will have a non polluting electric or hydrogen fleet of vehicles very soon, but they will need something to drive on, do you not see that?

        • Ad

          What's your evidence for that claim that "we will have a non-polluting electric or hydrogen fleet of vehicles very soon"?

          • In Vino

            Wrong all round, Alan. For years (since Rogernomics) we have been importing far more cars than we need, making them far too cheap, and no matter how many roads we build, we end up with ever-increasing gridlock. We never take off the roads more cars than we put on.

            I think the tide is now changing. We are going to have a difficult future; we will soon be importing fewer cars, and eventually the roads we already have will be more than we need or want to maintain.

            Why add more roads?

    • Ad 4.3

      The only major transport projects this government will complete in two terms will be motorways. Enormous fuck-off motorways. Northland, Waikato, Wellington.

      • CRL was started under National and is heading for 2025
      • Auckland's Glen Innes-Downtown cycleway won't be complete this term or next
      • Eastern Busway has over 1 political term to go
      • Light rail will be at least a further 2 terms
      • Electric car strategy rejected by industry and importers and of course the rural community
      • Auckland rail track repair and slower speeds will now last a decade
      • Car fleet rapidly ageing and turning hard against the (still undecided) transport climate goals
      • Transport emissions continue to accelerate faster than our comparator countries

      In NZ's major public transport projects you can fill a phonebooth with people trying to make it happen, and easily fill a stadium with people trying to stop it. And in the stands is this government.

      • Bearded Git 4.3.1

        Vote Green and some of the transport things you want might just happen Ad. The problem with this government is that it is 100% Labour.

        From memory this government did scrap many of the RONS Joyce was so fanatical about.

        • Ad

          Last term we had Greens as Associate Transport Minister and even less happened.

          This time the Green leader is the Minister for Climate Change and he's just a kite floating in a storm.

          Successful politicians don't get re-elected by what they stop.

          • Robert Guyton

            If James Shaw stopped climate change, he'd get re-elected alright! Deified even!

            • Gezza

              Deified? I think that would be going too far. And he’d have to go off & create his own universe.

              Possibly canonised? 😇

            • Sabine

              How can the Greens stop climate change if they can not even accept basic biology?

              • Ad

                That's the best policy segue I've ever seen.

                Because the Greens are promoting the gender identification clause in the Births and Deaths Bill, the Greens are also incompetent in climate change policy. Now sometimes I'm tough on the Greens, but I've never tried that kind of comparison before. Are you sure you're not writing for TheOnion?


                • Sabine

                  No, but if we are to trust science, does that include biology?

                  we are bodies – biological entietys, we breathe, we need water, we need shelter etc and if that is not a given we die. That is basic science and biology.

                  We can agree to disagree on various aspects of the Gender ID bill, but can we really pretend that biology – male / female – reproduction etc does not exists and if we don't like it we can just wish, hormon treat it, surgically remove it away? I doubt. Underlining the body is what it is, irrespective of the outwardly expression of anyone. Thus a transman can be a birthing parent, due to the invisible female (reproductive organs)
                  biology inside their body.

                  If these people can not accept that you can not 'change sex' then sorry mate, i don't trust them with fixing anything.

                  And btw, that whole 'change the sex' and be what ever you want is something that i expect from the Onion, but sadly as the video clip above showed, is standard operating procedure for the Green and the Labour Party.

                  Neither one of these parties will do anything to stem misery that will come with the raise in temperatures in the next few years.

                  Trust science, but only the science that we like and that we approve of. Vote Labour/Green 2023.

            • Incognito

              Possibly, but not after he’s been crucified first.

          • Bearded Git

            Here's a positive transport story from today Ad. 40,000 truck movements removed using rail instead. If you could be bothered to look you would find others.


            • Ad

              Why you fall for this bullshit is beyond me. The headline is all about climate change while killing off a major public transport project.

              Then we go from that to somehow shifting the rail hub in Ashburton, which will not change our climate impact one iota. It's not even a useful urban renewal project. On top of that, it's $2m – barely worth a contract variation.

              The light rail team have just announced that they have three options to present to the government. So that’s: more options, then studies, then costings, then evaluation, then business case, then Cabinet, then network evaluation and integration into AIAL Kainga Ora AT and AC, then design and detailed design, then consultation, then land acquisition, then procurement, then construction, then operation. Unless there’s a change of government.

              It would be great to defend this government on transport if it were defensible.

    • Gypsy 4.4

      The question should be – how did this madness get as far as it did?

      • Ad 4.4.1

        It started when National killed off trams and public transport and addicted Auckland to motorways instead starting in the mid-1950s.

        • Sabine

          And then was enabled further up by any other government and mayor of Auckland that did nothing and even furthered the idiocy.

          The transport mess, the housing misery, all of that is the result of decades of 'cant' be bothered' by both National and Labour.

        • Gypsy

          That's a stretch. The cycle bridge was a daft idea, the timing of the announcement was incredibly bad, and no-one believed it was going to end up costing under $1bn.

  5. dv 5

    Re the cycle way

    Build a cycle park, and run a free bus/shutle

    if cost 1m$ then got 700 years

  6. I will never ever understand why the UK elected a buffoon like Boris.

    But I notice at the recent UK Labour Party conference that Starmer came out against PR. So the Labour Party continues to be run by dinosaurs who simply do not understand that without PR, and where there is a split vote between the Greens, Liberals and Labour, and with and Boris's fixing of the electoral system https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/01/boris-johnson-rigging-the-system-power-courts-protest-elections, they are unlikely ever to get back into power.

  7. joe90 7

    Arrest the pulpit pimp.


    Welcome to the Church of Suicidal
    We'll have a sermon and a wonderful recital
    But before we go on there's something I must mention
    An important message I must bring to your attention
    I was in meditation and prayer last night
    I was awakened by a shining bright light
    Overhead a glorious spirit
    He gave me a message and you all need to hear it

    Send me your money
    That's what he said, he said to
    Send me your money

    • arkie 7.1

      All Tamaki wanted was a Pepsi, and Ardern wouldn’t give it to him
      All he wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi, and she wouldn’t give it to him
      Just a Pepsi

      He should be Institutionalized

  8. observer 8

    Judging by the signs displayed at this Auckland protest, their agenda is

    1. We hate Jacinda 2. We don't have anything else in common 3. But we really hate Jacinda.

    Apartheid, vaccines, women and farms, apparently.

    • roblogic 8.1

      Interesting how Apostle Bishop Brian only comes out of the woodwork when Labour is in government.

      Not when NACTional are in power and selling off public housing, persecuting beneficiaries, and enriching themselves.

      Almost like he has something in common with the corrupt gNat shysters.

  9. chris T 9

    Given rumour still has it the Pope when elected still has to be carried over the other religious weirdos in a seat with a hole in it to show he isn't a chick again, nothing surprises me.

    [Take the weekend off for your vile lie, which is easily neutered with a quick & simple fact check. You were doing reasonably well contributing to discussion, but you cannot help yourself, can you? This fucking stupid comment did not add anything useful and can only be seen as a sad attempt at a sick joke, which ridicules the whole topic thread.

    Enjoy your time off in Wellington while others are still being cooped up in Level 3 – Incognito]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Incognito 9.1

      See my Moderation note @ 12:34 pm.

    • Incognito 9.2

      Tell me what “rumour” means, and what you’d call someone who intentionally and deliberately spreads “rumours” that are vile and wrong and denigrating a large number of people because of their religion in one fell swoop? I can make all sorts of allegations and accusations under the excuse of “rumour” or a ‘friend of a friend of my brother’s girlfriend saw it somewhere on social media’ AKA hearsay. Is “religious weirdos” a fucking “rumour” too?

      If you had at least made some political point that we could discuss you would have received (yet another) warning and (yet again) waste my time. As it is, there was nothing redeeming in your comment and you had long run out of warnings, as your recent diversion trolling under this Post (https://thestandard.org.nz/keys-baaaack/) and before that in another Post show all too well; you only barely escaped a one-week ban the other day too and came back with a cheeky reply in Daily Review.

      IMO as Moderator, you’re a sly disingenuous troll far too often here, i.e. you have form with saying “sorry, but …”, “forgive me, but …”, and “rumour has it …”, etc., so that you think you can get away with saying whatever you like whenever you like. It won’t wash with me.

      BTW, anything that you post here and that I can read in the Back End could make things worse for you.

  10. Incognito 10

    The Bridge is dead, long live the Bridge!

  11. lprent 11

    Shifted the site server up from the linux kernel 5.4.0.x to the 5.11.0.x. There have been some odd crashes and automatic restarts on this system recently. I tracked one of them down and found that there had a been a kernel patch that fixed it the problem, and that it wasn’t likely to be backported to 5.4 any time soon..

    I've been running 5.11 on my laptop on ongoing development towards ubuntu 21.10 and it is rock stable at the low levels (the KDE gui has lots of holes). The recent release version of ubuntu 20.04.03 installer 5.11 when it hits unknown hardware. So it seems like a good bet that it isn't going to cause issues with the server.

    Lets find out shall we 🙂

    • roblogic 11.1

      Good luck; just don't mess around with Arch or Fedora unless you want even more bugs 😛

      • lprent 11.1.1

        I have tried arch a few times. It is a fast way to learn how to fix linux issues.

        I recently spent a 18 months building linux images with yocto. That is not only educational – but it also gives you an appreciation for how complex linux is, as well as showing just how long you can run computers at 100% CPU over all cores for hours.

  12. Here's a gnarly wee trick for reading stuff from behind the Herald's joke "paywall" 🏴‍☠️ 💩 😈

    curl -s https://{herald-link-url-goes-here} > herald.htm

    xmllint --html --format herald.htm --nowarning --xpath "//p" 2>/dev/null | perl -pe 's|<p.*?>||g;s|<span.?>||g;s|</.*?>|\n|g' | fmt -p -s | perl -pe 's|<strong>||ig;s|. |.\n\n|g' | fmt -p -w80

  13. Tiger Mountain 13

    Destiny Church it seems has been in receipt of upwards of $128,000 in COVID wage subsidies!


    you will need to type “Destiny Church” into the search box–only takes a second–as linked result would not paste here.

  14. francesca 14

    But hey ho, we should probably be talking strategy about what to do between now and then so it doesn't come to there.

    So what do you think

    amplifying the issue on social media ?

    (which I keep far away from)

    Letter writing to MP's? local papers and the Listener

    Discussing at branch level ? Contacting local Green candidate.

    I think they need to be warned , because they will lose heaps of women voters

  15. Pete 15

    I can't travel to Northland because I can't transit through Auckland airport.

    If I take Brian Tamaki and a mob with me will I be able to wangle a way through?

  16. DS 16

    I feel very sorry for the (majority) of Auckland Maori who are actually complying with the fight against Covid. The country is literally being held hostage by a handful of muppets.

  17. Cave Johnson 17

    Alexei Sayle's podcast (started late 2020).

    This is not comedy as such, just communism with a sense of the absurd.




  18. Anne 18

    What the hell!

    A couple of thousand numbskulls gather at the Cenotaph, Auckland. Few masks, no distancing. Afterwards, the gang riders traversed Auckland (some of them spent 2 hrs roaring around the streets of Devonport and presumably Takapuna) doing wheelies, riding on the wrong side of the road and generally disturbing the peace. I presume they were thumbing their noses at the rest of us.

    And where were the police? Nowhere as far as I can tell. Its already been declared a probable super-spreader event, so I suppose we can kiss good bye to any chance of coming out of L3 now.

    Lets be clear. This Destiny Church crowd are just another gang masquerading as a church. If the govt. and the police don't move on them, I suspect some members of the public will take matters into their own hands. That could spell even more Covid outbreaks that we are now going to see because of their behaviour.


    • Jester 18.1

      Yes the police were just there observing again. But then I guess they have to treat them the same as the funeral in west Auckland yesterday.

    • Cricklewood 18.2

      Different groups re the motorbikes, I ran into the group you spoke of in Auckland Central this morning mostly trail bikes…

      I actually wandered down for look since it was close to home tbh from what I could see masks were pretty wide spread seemed more people than they had said on the news…

  19. weka 19


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  • Government books show resilient and strong economy
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  • Mandatory vaccination for two workforces
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  • Northland to move to Alert Level 3 tonight
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  • Prime Minister's Christmas Card Competition
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  • Speech : Pacific Public Sector Fono – Friday 8th October 2021
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  • Pacific Public Sector Fono – Friday 8th October 2021
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  • Ruapehu social housing pilot, providing value for generations to come
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  • New Children’s Commissioner Appointed
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