Open Mike 05/06/2018

127 comments on “Open Mike 05/06/2018 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   5 June 2018 at 6:13 am

   And pigs will fly.

   Vague threats of legal action are being made by the oil industry against the government, over the ending of new block offers.

   On Friday industry publication Upstream reported that companies which had conducted seismic testing on a speculative basis were planning a legal challenge to the Government’s decision, probably led by the Texas-based International Association of Geophysical Contractors.

   Ardern said that the issue was not raised during her recent trip to New Plymouth, a trip which came more than a month after the decision was announced.

   “The Government has yet to be notified of any proposed legal challenge from the industry body. I met with the industry recently and no one raised this with me.”

   Upstream, extensively quoting unnamed sources, described a subsidiary of US oil services giant Schlumberger among a group of companies “most affected” by the decision, warning of “significant” losses in revenue. Approached for comment the day the ban was announced, no one from Schlumberger has yet responded.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104447116/no-cabinet-paper-created-in-path-to-decision-to-ban-offshore-oil-exploration
   • Jenny 1.1

     5 June 2018 at 6:21 am

     This pig of course will never get off the ground

     However….,

     If the CPTPP was enacted, which would give overseas corporations the right to sue and for foreign tribunals to over-rule government decisions, such vaguely muttered threats might have some real currency.
     • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1.1

       5 June 2018 at 7:10 am

       The oil industry’s losses from shale are endless. Not surprising they would want to mine our seabed, especially when NZ asks for a fraction of the royalties other nations charge.
       • saveNZ 1.1.1.1

         5 June 2018 at 8:39 am

         Yep, paltry royalties and they can’t even make Mobil clean up the tank farm.

         Still giving away free water too. Anyone would think everyone in this country is already a millionaire with a stash of cash to burn, the way our government gives away public resources to private offshore and onshore businesses…
     • Hooch 1.1.2

       5 June 2018 at 8:24 am

       Perhaps that explains the haste to put through the ban before they make the CPTPP official??
       • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1.2.1

         5 June 2018 at 10:37 am

         Think they can still sue after it is through. God help us.
         • McFlock 1.1.2.1.1

           5 June 2018 at 12:36 pm

           Do you think they could sue successfully, though?
           Where in the text does it say that the ISDS applies retrospectively?
           • NZJester 1.1.2.1.1.1

             5 June 2018 at 12:57 pm

             When the court is stacked with the mates of the business and there is no higher court to appeal to they could still likely lose even though the case might seem rock solid.
             It will be a rigged court that is far from independent.
             • McFlock …

               5 June 2018 at 1:13 pm

               Ok.

               How is the ISDS panel “stacked with the mates of the business”, according to the treaty?
               • AsleepWhileWalking …

                 5 June 2018 at 4:17 pm

                 Re: stacked. I recall reading something couple of years ago to that affect.

                 Something about appointed panels?
                 • McFlock …

                   5 June 2018 at 4:25 pm

                   The text is online.
                   Fell free to find something more substantive than “I recall reading something”.
       • alwyn 1.1.2.2

         5 June 2018 at 12:00 pm

         What haste are you actually talking about?
         No Right Turn, who is usually pretty accurate on his facts says that no ban has been introduced and all that has happened is that they had a Press Conference. He is definitely not impressed by the Government behaviour.
         http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2018/06/government-by-press-conference.html
         • dukeofurl 1.1.2.2.1

           5 June 2018 at 1:03 pm

           NRT is an idiot.
           https://www.nzpam.govt.nz/permits/petroleum/block-offer/

           They dont ‘have to do anything’ thats because cancelling the block offering ( except onshore Taranaki) this year is all they have to do.

           https://www.nzpam.govt.nz/permits/petroleum/block-offer/2018/
           • alwyn 1.1.2.2.1.1

             5 June 2018 at 1:15 pm

             But isn’t NRT arguing that a Block Offer isn’t the only way that the firms can get permits.
             They ca, if I am reading him correctly arguing that they can simply request a permit for an area and it has to be assessed under the existing rules.
             Is his second half of his post wrong in your opinion?
             • dukeofurl …

               5 June 2018 at 2:06 pm

               Difference between prospecting and exploration!

               Exploration or drilling can only occur in areas where you have won a block offer tender ( which includes your exploration program)

               Seismic surveys are prospecting but just give geologic data.
               • dukeofurl …

                 5 June 2018 at 2:18 pm

                 Example is this ‘prospecting permit’ application by Sclumberger last year for offshore Taranaki

                 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11702338

                 details of ‘ prospecting’ blocks here
                 http://data.nzpam.govt.nz/permitwebmaps?commodity=petroleum

                 The permit number was 60409.01:

                 Petroleum Prospecting Permit
                 Operator SCHLUMBERGER NEW ZEALAND LIMITED
                 Owner(s) SCHLUMBERGER NEW ZEALAND LIMITED
                 Location Taranaki Basin
                 Operation
                 Status Active
                 Grant on 28/11/2017
                 Commence on 28/11/2017
                 Duration 2 years 0 months
                 Expiry on 27/11/2019
                 Area 18705.065 SQKM
                 Mineral(s) Conventional Petroleum (excluding coal seam gas and gas hydrates)

                 Remember this is prospecting via seismic survey, yes the ships that trial air guns, not drilling.
               • alwyn …

                 5 June 2018 at 4:07 pm

                 Thank you for your comments.
                 I shall endeavour to digest it.
           • dukeofurl 1.1.2.2.1.2

             5 June 2018 at 1:20 pm

             Just because NRT quotes the Crown Minerals Act- – he thinks that makes him an expert .
             he’s totally ignorant of the regulations that go with the Minerals Act which regulate the detail of the applications

             http://www.nzpam.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/our-industry/rules-regulations/petroleum-programme-2013.pdf

             (5) As provided for in clause 7.2(1), all petroleum exploration permits (PEPs) will be granted by way of Petroleum Exploration Permit Rounds. Accordingly, until an area is offered in a Permit Round, that area is only available for permitting for petroleum prospecting permits (PPPs;)

             PEP . Petroleum Exploration Permit
             7.2 Competitive allocation
             (1) All PEPs will be allocated competitively by way of Petroleum Exploration Permit Rounds.
             Two methods of competitive allocation may be used:
             (a) staged work programme bidding
             (b) cash bonus bidding
             • dukeofurl …

               5 June 2018 at 2:02 pm

               Its important to distinguish ‘prospecting’ and ‘exploration’

               For oil, prospecting usually means seismic surveys often done speculatively with the data on sold to majors which bid for ‘exploration’ or what would be normally called ‘drilling’

               A bit of info back in 2016 when oil prices dropped and oil ‘prospecting’ was less attractive to the speculators

               Greenpeace says Houston-based prospecting company ION Geophysical has relinquished its oil surveying permits, which covered almost half of New Zealand’s water and another Houston-based company, TGS, has also withdrawn its application for a major offshore prospecting permit off the West Coast of the North Island.

               https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11702338
   • Ad 1.2

     5 June 2018 at 12:13 pm

     Let’s brush off that CPTPP Investor-State Dispute Service and see how it feels in practice!
     • dukeofurl 1.2.1

       5 June 2018 at 12:57 pm

       Existing exploration rights arent affected. Cant sue if you havent lost anything.

       All that has happened is no new areas were offered up for bids at auction.!
       The normal process is to offer selected areas , not all areas, for oil companies to bid for , as usual highest or any bid not necessarily accepted.
       • Antoine 1.2.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 4:45 am

         > Cant sue if you havent lost anything.

         Well, you can have a go, just that you might not win…

         A.
2. Sanctuary 2

   5 June 2018 at 6:57 am

   “…Vague threats of legal action are being made by the oil industry…”

   Well, it works for Talley’s.
   • soddenleaf 2.1

     5 June 2018 at 2:27 pm

     Non meat meat, oil. Both industries under serious threat from destroyed demand. The more they asked for their products, the more they risk demand disappearing to alternatives. The only way they now maintain their markets is to monopolize and delay new inevitable entrances. Of course geared up managers and investors move to the new industries, leaving the lazy to squeeze existing demand to maintain profits. Note the rush of old meat into our supermarkets, tasteless stomach cramping. Atleast the oil sector can increase biofuels to our daily fuel. Farming animals for meat, so twentieth century.
3. Zorb6 3

   5 June 2018 at 7:37 am

   Worked for an Arab sheik too ,compliments of McCully.
   • saveNZ 3.1

     5 June 2018 at 8:35 am

     Saudi businessmen do well
4. Hooch 4

   5 June 2018 at 8:21 am

   PR piece about bridges path to becoming PM on stuff today. How they can write this with a straight face is beyond me. Continuing the meme that the greens will drop under 5%
   • ScottGN 4.1

     5 June 2018 at 8:49 am

     It’s by Liam Hehir. Stuff has stopped bothering to remind their readers he’s aligned with the National Party.
     • dukeofurl 4.1.1

       5 June 2018 at 12:50 pm

       It seems to me they are all following the mantra:
       never say you are or have been CLOSELY associated with the national party.
       Farrar
       Hehir
       Hooten
       …..
       Was listening to radio on weekened, they had Mike Williams , decribed as former labour party president, which is true enough, but the ‘other side’ was Vernon Tava who was just called a ‘business broker’, when he should be described as national party activist as he tried to get Northcote nomination.
   • The Chairman 4.2

     5 June 2018 at 8:59 pm

     Seeing as the Greens have announced their coalition wins (thus have nothing foreseeable to pull out of their hat going forward) coupled with their downwards trend in the polls and the fact they tend to poll higher than what they secure on election day, there is a very real chance they may not make the threshold come next election.
5. ScottGN 5

   5 June 2018 at 9:03 am

   I happened to catch Garner’s so-called interview with Bridges on the AM Show this morning via Facebook (I don’t really watch telly). If that’s been the level of rigorous questioning by Garner to date I’m surprised Bridges isn’t on about 80% preferred PM rating.
   • ianmac 5.1

     5 June 2018 at 9:30 am

     But Scott Garner would rather have Bridges skip all that fuss and go straight to Sir Simon.
6. ianmac 6

   5 June 2018 at 9:29 am

   DHBs are still keen to progress work on the funding of community pharmacies with the aim of having some pharmacies that no longer dispense medicines, and even of having medication delivered directly to patients.

   What does this mean? Would there be my visit to the doctor but no pharmacy to pick up my prescription?

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/06/04/112759/some-pharmacies-may-stop-dispensing-drugs?preview=1
   • Stunned mullet 6.1

     5 June 2018 at 10:21 am

     There are a number of pharmacy providers now that utilise robots to dispense for rest homes and seem new companies that are setting up similar services to supply direct to the general public as per below.

     https://www.zoomhealth.co.nz

     Not sure how well it’ll go in NZ.
     • ianmac 6.1.1

       5 June 2018 at 11:34 am

       Thanks Stunned Mullet. At the moment I leave the doctor with my prescription and the nearby pharmacy fills it. Surely that would be cheaper than paying a courier to do so?
       (Must admit my concern with the pharmacy is the huge number of questionable health remedies on sale. Unproven. Quack.)
       • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.1

         5 June 2018 at 12:09 pm

         At the moment I leave the doctor with my prescription and the nearby pharmacy fills it. Surely that would be cheaper than paying a courier to do so?

         Much better if the doctor came to you because:
         1. It would actually cut down on resources (Time, fuel, car parking) used
         2. It would decrease the spread of disease

         But, of course, the doctor wouldn’t be carrying a huge stock of drugs. Then the same two reasons for delivering the drugs to you work as well.
         • McFlock 6.1.1.1.1

           5 June 2018 at 12:48 pm

           Home-visits work in some regards (e.g. rest homes), but your time/fuel/parking issues get flipped onto the doctor.

           Not to mention the commute time between patients, when the doctor could actually be treating the next patient in the doctor’s office.

           Not to mention some meds held on site in controlled conditions (e.g. vaccines), the capability to accommodate casual but semi-urgent walk-ins, and being assured of clinically-appropriate conditions and facilities (privacy, warmth, good hygiene facilities).

           But back to the original subject, pharmacist advice for me has been most useful not so much to second-guess the doctor’s advice (although part of the pharma’s role is to catch contra-indicated meds), but to provide additional information and clarification while picking up the meds. I don’t see how that would work with drone delivery of drugs to my door, or why I would go to a pharmacist without picking up more drugs.
           • alwyn 6.1.1.1.1.1

             5 June 2018 at 4:21 pm

             “(although part of the pharma’s role is to catch contra-indicated meds)”
             That is the bit I would really hate to lose. I was once prescribed a drug that wasn’t meant to be given with another I had been taking.
             They weren’t prescribed at the same time but the pharmacist picked it up (I always go to the same one) and he called the Doctor immediately.
             The prescription was changed.
             Only once and quite a long time ago but I really like that second check from someone.
             • Doogs …

               5 June 2018 at 10:10 pm

               Absolutely agreed on that one Alwyn. Have had a similar experience. The final check by someone with good training and knowledge is, to me at least, very important. Contra-indications can be killers. As people age they take more meds, and their bodies become less tolerant and more susceptible to drug use conflicts. This is one area where robotics (or AI really) are not appropriate.
         • Stunned Mullet 6.1.1.1.2

           5 June 2018 at 2:34 pm

           As many if not most lists to primary care are for non infectious ailments your rationale for number 2 doesn’t hold.

           Also as the vast amount of primary care in NZ is chock-a-block I don’t see how the poor old GPs would be able to schedule in travel to the patient in their schedule as well.
       • Stunnedmullet 6.1.1.2

         5 June 2018 at 2:37 pm

         Yes I’d think you’re correct about cheaper for you xian – where I suspect it’s leading is to a cheaper contact between certain providers of these services and DHBs as there are quite specific fee structures in place at the moment between pharmacy and the various DHBs to do with markups, dispensing fees part charges etc.

         There sis also the issue that many patients don’t pick up their scripts and when they do their compliance can still be poor.
       • Andrea 6.1.1.3

         5 June 2018 at 9:57 pm

         ianmac: you’re not talking about paracetamol are you? “questionable health remedies on sale. Unproven. Quack” Or are you recalling the wonders of thalidomide?

         Those pharmaceutical companies can be real scalliwags at flicking dubious remedies into the public arena in the hope of making a quick buck…
   • greywarshark 6.2

     5 June 2018 at 11:27 am

     Dhbs direct to patients. IRD direct to taxpayers. All part of the scheme to technologise our world and turn us into individual, separate and anomic beings.
     Heil Thatcher and her repetition of ‘There is no such thing as society.’ They are all bitches coming along on that line, male and female, it is a gender-free scathing term these days.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/83167317/anne-salmond-the-idea-theres-no-such-thing-as-society-is-extremely-damaging
     • ianmac 6.2.1

       5 June 2018 at 11:39 am

       No doubt accountants and lawyers will become extinct. In effect just Google it or feed the data into your computer and by-pass those experts. Carried to extremes and we will become so self sufficient, shops will become extinct also and we all will be hermits. Not very sociable. Even sheep enjoy their society.
       • greywarshark 6.2.1.1

         5 June 2018 at 1:23 pm

         When I’m calling ewe-oooo-oooo!
         (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bUBB-rwFc
         Or
         from Bagdad Cafe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCLpLWcX2cg

         Where will we be without having to deal with each others’ foibles? It’s a fable that DTB has below. We need to have a reason to get and about, meet and greet each other, some job that takes us out of ourselves.
     • Draco T Bastard 6.2.2

       5 June 2018 at 12:10 pm

       All part of the scheme to technologise our world and turn us into individual, separate and anomic beings.

       Actually, I think we could use it to be a better community. To get rid of jobs and decrease overwork so that people have more time to socialise.

       The problem is that the government are still trying to maintain capitalism.
     • McFlock 6.2.3

       5 June 2018 at 12:49 pm

       I think you might be overthinking it.
   • DH 6.3

     5 June 2018 at 11:39 am

     Looks like someone has been lobbying hard, another big Aussie company trying to elbow their way into the NZ market?

     I can’t see pharmacies surviving without prescriptions, they’d lose too much of their revenue. A lot of their retail sales are to people calling in for scripts and buying something else while they’re there.
     • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1

       5 June 2018 at 12:12 pm

       I can’t see pharmacies surviving without prescriptions, they’d lose too much of their revenue.

       Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

       We really shouldn’t be keeping things around for nostalgia.
7. Puckish Rogue 7

   5 June 2018 at 9:39 am

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/104439499/dozens-of-auckland-prison-guards-call-in-sick-after-organised-violence-from-gang-member-inmates

   Wheres Kelvin Davis when you need him…actually where is Kelvin Davis?
   • Muttonbird 7.1

     5 June 2018 at 10:08 am

     I guess that’s the downside of putting so many gang members in prison. They start to organise themselves.
     • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1

       5 June 2018 at 10:11 am

       I know right, if only there was someway to ensure less gang member went to prison

       https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/06/the_danger_for_the_government_with_repealing_three_strikes.html
       • Muttonbird 7.1.1.1

         5 June 2018 at 10:50 am

         Well now, I think there is. Decent socially conscious policy, proper funding of educational programs, support for communities, tenancy reform to help stabilise communities, warm and dry homes, properly funded and maintained social housing stock, etc, etc…..
         • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.1.1

           5 June 2018 at 10:56 am

           Its a nice dream
           • AB 7.1.1.1.1.1

             5 June 2018 at 11:31 am

             Not a dream PR. It’s made problematic only by your refusal to pay up.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               5 June 2018 at 11:38 am

               “It’s made problematic only by your refusal to pay up”

               Meaning?
               • AB …

                 5 June 2018 at 1:27 pm

                 The things Muttonbird mentions cost money. Cheaper to throw the poor end of town under the bus.
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   5 June 2018 at 2:24 pm

                   I don’t know how much money you think I make but I assure you I can’t pay for it all by myself
         • Antoine 7.1.1.1.2

           6 June 2018 at 4:49 am

           > Decent socially conscious policy, proper funding of educational programs, support for communities, tenancy reform to help stabilise communities, warm and dry homes, properly funded and maintained social housing stock, etc, etc…..

           This all sounds great, and we should do it, but right now we have a bunch of bad guys committing crimes, and we need to do something separate about that too. Because ‘proper funding of educational programs’ is not going to change people who have already gone off the rails.

           The prison system is going to need to find ways of dealing with gang members. We don’t want to end up like http://www.dw.com/en/several-killed-in-brazil-prison-gang-battle-dozens-escape/a-41993148

           A.
   • babayaga 7.2

     5 June 2018 at 3:56 pm

     It’s not a Serco prison. Davis won’t be interested.
     • Puckish Rogue 7.2.1

       5 June 2018 at 3:59 pm

       Oh come now Kelvin Davis cares a lot about prison officers I’m sure he’ll be onto this quick smart 🙂
8. DH 8

   5 June 2018 at 9:46 am

   These stories are becoming a regular occurence…

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/104443483/business-fined-81000-for-selling-dangerous-baby-bath-toy

   I know business doesn’t get much sympathy on this site but I thought maybe it would offend our sense of justice and fairness. There is so much wrong with that story. When did our justice system turn so vindictive and nasty?
   • Antoine 8.1

     5 June 2018 at 10:06 am

     I see no problem. The fine should stand. They sold a small kids’ toy that was dangerous to small children.

     A.
     • DH 8.1.1

       5 June 2018 at 10:36 am

       Ahem, they sold a product that was allegedly, or potentially, dangerous to small children. There’s no fact in that, no children were harmed.

       The fine is out of proportion to the crime. They’re bankrupting people for what are really just errors in judgement that anyone can make. They haven’t shown any malice, negligence or intent by the sellers, it’s simply a highly subjective determination followed by a whopping great big fine.

       The real message from this, and other similar recent cases, is that anyone contemplating starting up a small business is only a mistep away from being hauled in front of a judge and bankrupted. Seems like business is only for the rich who can afford the expensive lawyers to check every item they sell for compliance.
       • AsleepWhileWalking 8.1.1.1

         5 June 2018 at 10:41 am

         They do pick and choose what businesses are targeted.

         Fine does seem nuts.
         • DH 8.1.1.1.1

           5 June 2018 at 10:53 am

           Yeah, I don’t have any issues with the process it’s the punishment that’s wrong. By all means prosecute and fine but be reasonable about it.

           Some other similar cases, keep in mind that in each one the business owner was of limited means and either bankrupted or at least almost certainly left in desperate financial straits;

           https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/103878275/botched-asbestos-removal-job-results-in-35k-fine-for-retired-tradie

           https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/103868117/south-auckland-company-fined-35000-for-selling-unsafe-toy-set

           “WorkSafe fine ‘will put company under’ says owner ”
           https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11979174
           • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.1.1

             5 June 2018 at 12:21 pm

             Why should a business which is operating below standard be allowed to continue?

             The law isn’t there to protect the business but to protect the general populace from the poor actions of business.
             • DH …

               5 June 2018 at 12:51 pm

               You need to get that chip off your shoulder Draco. I work for myself and I make no apologies for it, nor do I need to justify it to the likes of you.

               Most people in business are the same, we do our best to trade honestly, safely and fairly while still being mindful of the fact we’re capable of making mistakes the same as anyone else. Genuine criminals don’t get fines that high, where’s the justice in it?
               • McFlock …

                 5 June 2018 at 1:51 pm

                 Negligence kills.

                 That asbestos job put the tradie, his employee, and everyone in the area at risk.

                 The tree-trimmer almost killed a woman through negligence.

                 And choking on foreign objects other than food sends a dozen kids to hospital every year, and sometimes they die.

                 The reason there’s not more is because we have regulations that have teeth. The teeth you’re complaining about.
                 • DH …

                   5 June 2018 at 2:19 pm

                   And as usual you ignore the substance of my argument which is that the punishment should fit the crime. But then no punishment for being in business is harsh enough for you is it Draco. Should we all be lined up & shot, would that satisfy you?
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     5 June 2018 at 2:30 pm

                     Why are you calling McFlock Draco?
                   • McFlock …

                     5 June 2018 at 2:36 pm

                     I’m not Draco.

                     The punishment does fit the crime. This is literally a life and death issue, with crimes being committed in the cold light of reason and business sense. The sentence needs to be a deterrent to all.

                     The worst thing we could do is have a token fine that simply becomes a cost of doing business when you’re finally caught, or a trivial cost that nobody takes note of.

                     The best example was when a local business was sued for $60k-70k because somebody slipped and broke their arm – the upteenth person to do so, and the business had been slow to respond.

                     Within days of the judgement, every pedestrian grate and ramped walkway around town was getting rails and slapped with non-slip paint. It was pretty funny, but it showed the punitive approach worked in that situation.

                     People with comprehension and impulse-control issues don’t really think ahead of much in the way of deterrents. But business managers are always making a cost/benefit analysis.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 5 June 2018 at 2:33 pm

                 …nor do I need to justify it to the likes of you.

                 Except that you do.

                 Most people in business are the same, we do our best to trade honestly, safely and fairly while still being mindful of the fact we’re capable of making mistakes the same as anyone else.

                 All of the people I’ve met in business have been less than honest, try to cheat taxes and safety regulations and their mistakes have always been the result of that cheating.

                 In other words, they’ve all been genuine criminals.
                 • DH …

                   5 June 2018 at 2:43 pm

                   Yep apologies there Draco, and to McFlock I was seeing something that wasn’t there…. thought me and Draco were headed for a good argument…

                   The point of the last one McFlock was the discrepancy. The victim was awarded $18k and the court pocketed $90k for itself.

                   The rest had no victims, only potential ones and the judgement on that was highly subjective. We’re all placing people at risk, we do that every time we jump in the car.
                   • McFlock …

                     5 June 2018 at 3:51 pm

                     The court didn’t pocket $90k, any more than the officer issuing a speeding infringement pockets the cash.

                     “Potential” victims including the employee or neighbours who might get asbestosis in twenty years, or a child who might choke to death on pieces from one of the 4,000 unrecovered toys.

                     And more importantly, the potential victims of every cut-rate importer who sees the penalty and double-checks the safey of their containerload of shite.
                   • DH …

                     5 June 2018 at 4:05 pm

                     So you’d be happy with an $80k fine every time you’re caught speeding would you McFlock?

                     I mean, you’d be risking people lives and an $80k fine would deter others from speeding so that would all be good, right? Who cares about justice, lets make an example of those nasty speeders.
                   • McFlock …

                     5 June 2018 at 4:13 pm

                     The prospect of an 80k fine would certainly ensure I’m always consciously under the limit, not just assuming that I’m probably under it.
                   • DH …

                     5 June 2018 at 4:35 pm

                     “The prospect of an 80k fine would certainly ensure I’m always consciously under the limit, not just assuming that I’m probably under it.”

                     No it wouldn’t. Every now and then you’d have a lapse in concentration and nudge that speedo over the limit. It’s human frailty, we’re all subject to it.
                   • McFlock …

                     5 June 2018 at 4:49 pm

                     But any lapses would certainly be less frequent and less serious.

                     The old “human frailty” argument to allow negligent behaviour is bullshit. It’s an excuse to let people keep dying. And not a single instance you raised is approaching the complexity of driving a car: everything occurred in a timeframe set by the guilty people, the preventive measures did not require immediate reflexes to resolve, and all hazards were known well in advance.

                     FFS, isolating the fall area for things you are working at height with is the first basic step in every situation. Signage to make people aware of the hazard is the second.

                     Sure the tree guy had manuals, but he obviously hadn’t made it clear to staff they should be followed. He never visited a site to find that staff member breaking the rules before? The first time a safety-conscious staff member makes an elementary mistake, someone gets hospitalised for 6 days (and they don’t do that for fun)? Bullshit. The odds are miniscule. If he didn’t set a bad example himself, the owner must have seen his employees at worksites without adequate signage and isolation before, and done next to nothing.

                     Spending money or time on paperwork isn’t a substitute for making sure that people stick to it. WTF was one employee felling a tree alone for, anyway? Who was going to call for help if it landed on his own stupid head?
                   • DH …

                     5 June 2018 at 5:13 pm

                     I’m not knocking the system McFlock, only the size of the fines. They are beyond punitive, they admit the fines are intended for deterrence and IMHO they’re too high even for that. Look at what the Commerce Commission demanded on that first one, they wanted fines of over $200k. That’s pretty spiteful.

                     I mentioned the tree case because the victim was the one harmed and the system has taken the lions share of the cash. It suggests a high degree of vindictiveness on the part of lawmakers, they appear to care more about punishment than they do about the victim(s).
                   • McFlock …

                     5 June 2018 at 5:21 pm

                     Which is simply another way of saying that the system recognises the current victims, but also cares about deterring people from creating victims in the future.
                   • DH …

                     5 June 2018 at 6:03 pm

                     “Which is simply another way of saying that the system recognises the current victims, but also cares about deterring people from creating victims in the future.”

                     The court cases tend to suggest otherwise do they not? If the fines really did deter we wouldn’t be seeing any court cases.

                     At the heart of it to me is the basic tenets of justice and fairness and this is way out of balance IMO. We’re not in the nineteenth century, putting people in stocks should be a thing of the past.

                     I’ll leave it here where we look to agree to disagree, I’ve run my course on it. Cheers.
                   • McFlock …

                     5 June 2018 at 9:16 pm

                     Men. I’m just glad that people are being fined for toys that might become choking hazards, rather than issuing recalls after a dozen injuries or deaths.
                 • DH …

                   5 June 2018 at 2:57 pm

                   “All of the people I’ve met in business have been less than honest, try to cheat taxes and safety regulations and their mistakes have always been the result of that cheating.”

                   You’re mixing with the wrong crowd I think Draco. Certainly business has more than its share of rogues but it’s not that bad. I’d opine the worst offenders are the salaried executives who sacrifice ethics for career.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     5 June 2018 at 9:21 pm

                     I’ve worked for many businesses across many industries.

                     Cash jobs so they don’t have to put it through the books and pay tax.
                     Miss a safety precaution here or there so as to save money. Hey, nobody’s going to know right?

                     All business people are the same – they’re all crooked.
                   • humma …

                     6 June 2018 at 4:13 am

                     with a comment like that Draco, you are a fuckwit of the highest order.
                 • JohnSelway …

                   5 June 2018 at 3:07 pm

                   “All of the people I’ve met in business have been less than honest”

                   So every person you have ever met ‘in business’ have been dishonest about their business?

                   That is so broad as to be completely meaningless.
       • Sacha 8.1.1.2

         5 June 2018 at 4:21 pm

         Company pleaded guilty. Judgement with reasoning is here: https://www.comcom.govt.nz/dmsdocument/16243
       • Andrea 8.1.1.3

         5 June 2018 at 10:16 pm

         Missing from this delightful rally is any information about whether said child toy was labelled as being unsuitable for kids under a certain age.

         If it was – that’s a parent responsibility issue. That toy should not have been acquired in any household with kids under the safe age. Or for any older kids still known to be at that sucky stage.

         A dozen kids a year go to hospital having ingested foreign items – and so many of those items are NOT ‘toys’: lids/caps, batteries, buttons, beads, pebbles. And those are the usual items.

         Some dopey person BOUGHT that item. No one menaced them into buying it. If it was a gift – is there no responsible parent around to say, ‘That’s lovely! Thank you! When child is older we’ll let them have it.’?

         If the thing was imported – is there no one locally, with a brain, who actually knows the rules of the game and slaps on a safety sticker?

         Or is it easier to kvetch and go to court to ‘make an example to discourage others’?

         On asbestos: wasn’t there, myself, but do we actually have enough tradies backed with safe disposal places for this naturally occuring element? If we do – that’s truly amazing in this over-regulated and under-resourced nation.
         • Antoine 8.1.1.3.1

           6 June 2018 at 4:52 am

           > Missing from this delightful rally is any information about whether said child toy was labelled as being unsuitable for kids under a certain age.

           It’s right there in the article: “On the back of the package was a warning that the toy was not suitable for children 3 years old due to it presenting a choking hazard.”

           Nevertheless, the toy is clearly intended for small children.

           A.
           • DH 8.1.1.3.1.1

             6 June 2018 at 10:09 am

             Antoine there needs to be some realism injected into this, people can take too much for granted. The verdict is fact, guilt is not.

             This was a case brought under the Fair Trading Act. It’s not a criminal case, the company was charged not the person. The penalty was a fine. While the Commerce Commission might crow about their victory the reality is that the defendant likely pled guilty because it was the only practical option for them. No-one was personally facing a criminal conviction, it’s effectively a civil case and those are nearly always about the money.

             When small/med businesses face prosecution by the Commerce Commission they’re on a hiding to nothing. You can’t fight them, they’ve got deeper pockets that you. They’re the ultimate bully. An $80k fine is harsh but still the least expensive option, why spend half a $million defending the charges when it gains you nothing? You’d just end up $500k poorer instead of $80k.

             I’ll bet the legal advise small/med business people receive in these cases is to plead guilty, mitigate the fine down as much as possible and get on with their life.

             So, while people might get all judgemental over what they read in the ‘paper keep in mind it’s only one side of the story.
             • Antoine …

               6 June 2018 at 10:15 am

               Of course one never knows the true facts when a story appears in the media, I can only judge on what I read.

               If the toy was in fact a choking hazard then I don’t have much sympathy for the vendor.

               A.
   • KJT 8.2

     5 June 2018 at 10:10 am

     Making sure that your products dont harm people should be a basic rule of business.

     They get no sympathy from me.
     • greywarshark 8.2.1

       5 June 2018 at 11:54 am

       KJT
       I think that the correct way to deal with this is that the government should bring in some sensible regulations, which would be policed. The problem is that now government punishes as a control, it doesn’t proactively sort out the crap so that it doesn’t reach us at all. These regulations would also come with inspectors who would actively make sure that dross didn’t get into NZ, eg electrical fittings would be to our specifications, goods would be fit for purpose.

       At present it is virtually open slather, people are exposed to shoddy goods and their injurious effects. Then if we are lucky, the government steps in and makes a big thing of hammering the dealer, but gummint has encouraged or enabled the shonky system themselves.

       We see this with this toy, we see this with the biological infiltration of nasties we pay large to deal with, with overseas students being rorted by agents that government refuses to regulate and certify as reputable protecting students that trust our country’s good name! They have brought about the collapse of the CTV building and the farce of dealing with an engineer’s falsification, with the collapse of the Pike mine and falsities and lies connected with that, with the steel that is munted, the houses that are munted through leaky whatever, shoddy stuff encouraged by government not having reasonable standards, regulation, inspections.

       The toy is just another part of a shonky system that was being run by virtual criminals and con-men and Labour has to act decisively to separate themselves from it, or themselves be considered part of the despicable gang. Has there ever been a class action by a large group of people in a small country against the deliberate destruction of a brand built up over a century as NZ’s has? Would Coca cola sit quietly while its brand worth so much, was skewed and besmirched like this?
       • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.1

         5 June 2018 at 12:25 pm

         The problem is that now government punishes as a control, it doesn’t proactively sort out the crap so that it doesn’t reach us at all.

         This comes back to my idea that nothing be introduced to the market until such time as it has been thoroughly tested and regulated.

         At present it is virtually open slather, people are exposed to shoddy goods and their injurious effects.

         That’s the way business likes it and how we ended up with the ‘legal highs’ fiasco.
       • Sacha 8.2.1.2

         5 June 2018 at 4:23 pm

         “the government should bring in some sensible regulations, which would be policed”

         Which this conviction is already an example of.
         • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.2.1

           5 June 2018 at 9:22 pm

           No, it’s an example of the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff type regulation that lets the dangerous shit through. We need to catch this sort of product before it hits the shelves.
   • Puckish Rogue 8.3

     5 June 2018 at 10:13 am

     Break the law and you face the consequences or at least should
9. pat 9

   5 June 2018 at 10:28 am

   The latest in John Maudlin’s series….

   “I think this scenario is unlikely, but it points to something else. As the coming debt crisis matures, national leaders and central bankers will find their choices narrowing. I’m constantly amazed at their creativity, but it has limits. They can’t kick the can down the road forever. At some point, the road ends and then they have to choose. When your only choices are “impossible” and “terrible,” then you pick the latter. We are going to see previously unthinkable ideas be seriously considered, and sometimes chosen, because all other options are even worse.”

   https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/94116/john-mauldin-continues-his-train-crash-series-examining-his-thesis-we-are-heading

   roads of national significance
   • greywarshark 9.1

     5 June 2018 at 2:21 pm

     Pat
     That is interesting and good reading. Like one of the crime novels I like so much (I tend to like the golden age ones though). You have to follow the story closely, look for clues, be aware of inconsistencies, wonder about people’s cover stories.

     I will read it all and go back to the other three.
     I found this piece about parallel currency for Italy quite riveting. Necessity is the mother of invention they say. It might work to pull them (us?) out of the power of world currency exigencies. (I can’t remember just what that means, but when talking about world finances one can’t be too precise anyway.)

     The BOT is Italy’s Treasury bill, and as in the US, it serves as a kind of cash equivalent in electronic trading. The mini-BOT would be a government debt instrument, in paper form, that pays zero interest and never matures. The government would use it to pay social benefits and accept it for tax payments. Private businesses would not be required to accept it, but they could.

     Private businesses and individuals would also, in theory, buy the mini-BOT as a way to pay their taxes. But they would buy them at a discount. So, traders would immediately set up an arbitrage where the person getting the social benefits payment could sell them for euros for, call it, a 5% or 10% haircut.

     Former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who is still a force in Italy, insists this would be legal. The Northern League sees a way to ease the transition out of the euro and the Five-Star Movement sees a way to increase spending without having to take on euro debt. And since the new coalition government wants to increase the deficit an additional $180 billion euros or so through a combination of tax cuts and increased spending, this is being seriously proposed.

     Fancy Berlusconi still being around. Is that equivalent to Bill Clinton popping up here and there. Latest goss is that he has written a book which is a thriller based on cyber attack on the White House.

     By the way Mauldin. Though maudlin is funny.
     • Pat 9.1.1

       5 June 2018 at 8:35 pm

       Lol…Freudian slip….genuinely read it as Maudlin
10. AsleepWhileWalking 10

    5 June 2018 at 11:03 am

    Tractor hacking (farmers respond to John Deer monopolising diagnostic software in their tractors to extort thousands more out of the farmers).
11. Enough is Enough 11

    5 June 2018 at 11:11 am

    I see David Farrar is in a full scaremonger assault today with some questionable statistics
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/06/the_danger_for_the_government_with_repealing_three_strikes.html
    • Antoine 11.1

      6 June 2018 at 5:03 am

      What did he say that was wrong?

      A.
12. greywarshark 12

    5 June 2018 at 11:30 am

    Whose responsibility is it to clear the logs away that have come down on people’s
    homes, farms. livelihoods? What has the Regional Council come forward with?
    What responsibility have they accepted for allowing logging to go ahead with little or no final clearing, cleaning up work, remedial work such as terracing, replanting?

    Gisborne is in East Coast electorate held by National and Anne Tolley is MP.
    (Votes: National Party 44.03% -4.39 Electorate Votes National 46.18% -5.74
    Labour Party 36.62% +13.98 Electorate Votes Labour 33.51% +4.38)

    The Greens got a very low party and electorate vote. It looks as if they were the very people prepared to look at and do the things that needed to be done for the electorate. So the voters there have not been prepared to do politics for what they needed, but have played the political football game, voting for their favourite personality and to gain personal advantage.

    Gisborne is in the Maori electorate of Ikaroa-Rāwhiti held by Meka Whaitiri MP.
    properties and houses and vehicles?

    What is Anne Tolley saying that Gisborne should be getting? What did her National Party cohorts do to see that the area was doing to be prepared for climate change and its effects? Is the regional council saying anything:

    News from Gisborne:
    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/nightmare-morning-for-gisborne-after-heavy-flooding/ar-AAydZxH (about civil defence)

    https://www.indiannewslink.co.nz/torrential-rain-lashes-new-zealand-more-on-the-way/ (Has interest information involving Indians)

    https://www.maoritelevision.com/news/regional/tolaga-bay-whanau-airlifted-roof-after-flooding (roads closed)

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/358888/more-rain-on-the-way-for-tolaga-bay
    (Excellent aerial image showing large logging waste are an obvious cause for much of the damage, and the muddy water indicates bare land left vulnerable to erosion)

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104442700/flooding-turned-a-tolaga-bay-bridge-to-logs-more-heavy-rain-gales-and-even-snow-is-coming
    (Lots of videos – but note – they start running before being clicked and I couldn’t find where to turn off).

    This is a link to a report from MPI I put up yesterday that forms part of the base information that permissions for logging have been based on.

    Open Mike 04/06/2018

    Just what help and remedial work is available from the Gisborne authorities who should be accepting responsibility for enabling this situation to arise?
    • ianmac 12.1

      5 June 2018 at 11:44 am

      If I have flotsam layered on my property and heavy rain flushes it onto the road and against neighbouring houses would I be excused or would I face penalties??
13. Puckish Rogue 13

    5 June 2018 at 11:49 am

    The sheer…chutzpah on this guy is impressive

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12064447

    ‘Former US President Bill Clinton says the #MeToo movement is overdue. Just don’t ask him about Monica Lewinsky.’

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_misconduct_allegations
    • Puckish Rogue 13.1

      5 June 2018 at 2:35 pm

      Well could be trumped by this guy i suppose

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/104470095/woody-allen-i-should-be-the-poster-boy-for-metoo-movement

      “What bothers me is that I get linked in with them,” Allen said. “People who have been accused by 20 women, 50 women, 100 women of abuse, and abuse, and abuse, and I, who was only accused by one woman, in a child custody case, which was looked at, and proven to be untrue, I get lumped in with these people.”

      I could think of a couple of reasons why
14. Venezia 14

    5 June 2018 at 12:06 pm

    Another rort shows up in the Private Training Establishments (PTEs) market for international students. Staff taking English language exams for students, when they fail to keep up with course requirements another provider is found by an “Agent”. There needs to be an inquiry into the whole rotten PTE sector.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018647872
    • Draco T Bastard 14.1

      5 June 2018 at 12:42 pm

      There needs to be an inquiry into the whole rotten PTE sector.

      True but I think the entire PTE sector needs to be shut down. It’s causing far more problems than it’s worth. In fact, from what I’m seeing, the whole thing is a rort.
15. bwaghorn 15

    5 June 2018 at 12:35 pm

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12064199

    Shit the bosses won’t like this story
    • Adrian 15.1

      5 June 2018 at 12:58 pm

      The work is shit, even the photo to illustrate the story shows a worker crouching to pick kiwis under the trellis while carrying up to 20 kgs in the front basket. Ask any body who has done this work and the result is of severe back pain and ongoing problems for months. . Where is Workplace Safety?
      What the stupid industry doesn’t realise is that the quest workers all have social media networks warning about how bad the job is.
    • DV 15.2

      5 June 2018 at 1:03 pm

      I was particularly interested in these comments from the article

      Government welfarism is very corrosive. The kiwifruit industry received over $25 million of taxpayer money to combat the PSA virus several years ago.

      The radio interviewer asked the kiwifruit spokesman why they don’t just pay higher wages to attract more local workers. He replied that this would reduce the number of workers available to other kiwifruit growers in the area. They would end up competing with each other for workers. They would all end up having to pay higher wages.

      DUH
      • greywarshark 15.2.1

        5 June 2018 at 2:01 pm

        That sounds like a ‘carousel’ cartel. What goes around, comes around though.

        I remember hearing about a fixed price mentality by farmers in one country or state.in a certain area, to screw the landless workers down. There it would be a death or injury retaliation by neighbouring farmers who would react to someone changing the ‘traditional’ payment rates. Very nasty, very cold-blooded.
        • dukeofurl 15.2.1.1

          5 June 2018 at 2:22 pm

          Modern day form is by using ‘labour hire contractors’, who end up a few companies controlling the unskilled labour for hundreds of different companies in an area, whether is rural or urban. You cant go down the road for more money as its the same or similar labour hire company offering the same wage rates.
          • greywarshark 15.2.1.1.1

            5 June 2018 at 2:35 pm

            Mmmm. There is always some new way to make an IED that will destroy the unions and workers’ hopes, if they don’t do that themselves by injudicious actions not in their own best interests.
16. David Mac 16

    5 June 2018 at 2:53 pm

    All Kiwifruit growers should double the wages they pay labour during good times and like Henry Ford did in 1914, reap the benefits.

    “On Jan. 5, 1914, Henry Ford, head of the Ford Motor Company, introduced a minimum wage scale of $5 per day, more than doubling the wages for most employees. He also offered profit sharing to employees who lived a clean lifestyle, reduced the daily worker’s shift to eight hours from nine and declared that no employee would “be discharged except for proved unfaithfulness or irremediable inefficiency.”

    The New York Times described Ford’s decision as “one of the most remarkable business moves of his entire remarkable career,” which included the development of the Model T and using a moving assembly line in his factories.

    James Couzens, the Ford treasurer, said: “It is our belief that social justice begins at home. We want those who have helped us to produce this great institution and are helping to maintain it to share our prosperity. We want them to have present profits and future prospects. … Believing as we do, that a division of our earnings between capital and labor is unequal, we have sought a plan of relief suitable for our business.”

    The wage increase, which became national news, fostered good will for Ford, who was generally praised in nonbusiness circles for his generosity toward his workers. His primary motivation for the wage increase, however, was economic. Ford hoped to reduce the company’s high turnover rate and retain its best employees. The increased cost of wages was offset by increased production and decreased training programs and other costs associated with hiring new employees. Furthermore, the wage increase provided Ford employees with enough money to purchase Ford automobiles, which further increased the company’s sales.

    However, some business leaders and journalists criticized Ford for what they perceived as social welfare policies; The Wall Street Journal wrote that he brought “biblical or spiritual principles into a field where they do not belong.” In the end, Ford’s business goals were realized and his wage increase had its intended effect: turnover declined sharply, and profits doubled to $60 million from $30 million from 1914 to 1916.”

    Reliable kiwifruit workers climbing over each other to get a spot in a gang come harvest time has got to be a huge load off growers’ minds. They can get on with growing rather than being Human Relations depts.
    • Antoine 16.1

      6 June 2018 at 4:54 am

      > All Kiwifruit growers should double the wages they pay labour during good times and like Henry Ford did in 1914, reap the benefits.

      I doubt the industry is financially viable at that wage rate, given the competition from other producing countries who pay less.

      Feel free to prove me wrong though – start growing kiwifruit and pay twice what everyone else does and see how you get on…

      A.
      • DB 16.1.1

        6 June 2018 at 6:35 am

        50K per hectare. They sound very hard done by Antoine. Maybe they could offer the workers a free sandwich and dispense with nasty money altogether.
17. Chris 17

    5 June 2018 at 3:39 pm

    Someone needs to tell Bridges, Collins, Bennett et al that if they play their cards right they too can be asked by a Labour government to lead an inquiry into labour relations:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104466802/workplace-shake-up-in-governments-sights–jim-bolger-to-lead-pay-working-group
18. CHCOff 18

    5 June 2018 at 3:39 pm

    If i was King post:

    Producer/Industry Associations.

    Goods and Services would be categorized, and all participating firms would have the options of joining associations/guilds for these – this would carry benefits. Firstly this would involve branding. 40% volume, 60% number of firms, would have democratic say in forming inspector services that operate industry wide in establishing the range of standards that apply to the significant chain factors involved in that good or service (much like is already done today). These seals would then be sold as part of the brands, to the local population – part of this would of course be the various labour condition standards of local employment that make up the respective brand to the local consumer. Forms of unions, except being specialised labour supply firms/businesses, could be part of this. Intra-association disputes that arise in this area would have mechanism for resolution and mediation via parliament. These bodies would vote among themselves also for representation of their association.

    Modern Jubilee Economics.

    The populace wold be issued complimentary currency, calibrated to some ratio of economic indices of the economy (some would be better than others but within reason, all would do approx. the same job). This currency would only be legal tender for goods and services of participating NZ associations of the above. The Govt. would redeem the firms with national currency to the value of the goods and services paid for. This govt. debt would be met (& written off) by the value of goods and services created and consumed the following year by the complimentary currency. This is the jubilee function.

    Parliamentary representation.

    Over the 3 year election period, the proportions of complimentary currency that go to the participating business associations as described above, would determine what share of parliamentary seats is automatically allocated to that association, out of the third of parliamentary seats total that they automatically receive.

    Finally all referendums would be binding, with every govt, required to undertake a small number every year, preferably by or developing the digital & secure low cost approach know how to do so in the process with their citizenry. The terms of these referendums would always be supplied by the govt. of the day and could be used however it chooses.

    And that friends, would sort out the majority of the confused & dum stuff in a practical self-governing way capable of greater co-operation and equilibrium in sustainable outcomes across the board, for a varied, complicated and technological societal construct that has exceeded the ability of just political democracy to rationally manage alone.

    !
19. ianmac 19

    5 June 2018 at 4:25 pm

    No Right Turn has the most comprehensive intelligent column on the Government’s decision to ban future oil explanation. Well worth a read. The Opposition clamour about the lack of Cabinet Paper but NRT says:
    “The documents on the government’s supposed ban on new offshore oil exploration have been released. A few thoughts:
    -The issue of the decision bypassing Cabinet (which prompted this from me this morning) may have been oversold a little. The initial briefing on the issue notes that “officials have previously recommended that prior to any decision, an oral item is tabled with Cabinet”. …”

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2018/06/the-offshore-exploration-ban-advice.html
20. mosa 20

    5 June 2018 at 8:07 pm

    Bernie is still alive and well and will be a force for progressive politics in the mid terms later this year.

    https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2018/06/04/bernie-sanders-goes-on-tv-and-nails-what-america-needs-to-defeat-trump/
21. Eco Maori 21

    6 June 2018 at 6:54 am

    The AM Show good morning I say there should be equality for te Papatuanukue ladies sports stars.
    Ruaumoko is going off in Guatemala see we are like skin cells on a blue whale compared to Papatuanukue we need to show her more respect what’s so wrong with haveing a culture that puts the environment and the mokos future first.
    Many thanks to Te business that are going to follow the Green party lead to lower there plastic use and use bio degradable plastic .
    Home many times did shonky call the moves of national when he was in parliament we need to save te maui dolphins an all animals and stop drilling for oil
    . I still say that the biggest why for Aotearoa to lower our carbon footprint is to subsidiseing secondhand elictric cars this will help the poor people as well.
    See this is how a intelligent assertive humane government runs housing Corp ask the right question make the right calls
    Duncan you know I can see right through you. Ka kite ano P.S
22. eco maori 22

    6 June 2018 at 7:08 am

    The AM Show I know that they are pressing you to use these topics just like they force the Rock radio station to play crappie sounds all part of there obsession intimidation on ECO MAORI . Ka kite ano
23. Eco Maori 23

    6 June 2018 at 7:35 am

    House Corp Pukekohe is not liserning to my Daughter and just putting fence and gates in the wrong place logicaly one would put a fence and gate so that both doors to the house are behind the safety gates one in the right place but the one by the alleyway is in the wrong place and they won’t listen to my Daughter advice WTF. KA KITE ANO
24. Eco Maori 24

    6 June 2018 at 8:00 am

    This opinion smells of the carbon industry $$$$$$$$$ putting there hip pocket before the future small minded men who cannot see thurther than there own lives muppets. Link below

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/104474838/arderns-rush-to-announce-oil-exploration-ban-risks-her-moral-high-ground Ka kite ano

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