Open Mike 04/06/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 4th, 2018 - 103 comments
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103 comments on “Open Mike 04/06/2018”

  1. Muttonbird 1

    Sir Bingles.

    What the hell?

    • Eloquently put. WTF.

      Time to get rid of this anachronism – once again!

    • Grey Area 1.2

      I would have expected it under National but I would have hoped for better under a Labour coalition. Obviously not.

      Cringeworthy colonial hangeover titles are a joke but they do give an indication of what an administration values.

      I just ignore titles like Knight and Dame. I may be tilting at windmills but I just simply never use them. I mean Shonkey is still Shonkey.

    • DH 1.3

      Isn’t it insulting? They’re sure good at looking out for themselves aren’t they.

      • Grey Area 1.3.1

        I saw in an awards piece yesterday that ex-PMs are now knighted as matter of course. Why? For doing their job? And why Double Dipper when he was only PM for about a year?

        It said of course that he was also being recognised for being our most successful Minister of Finance whose wisdom and general awesomeness got us through the Global Financial Crisis and now he was going to make a new career advising others how he created our rockstar economy (or something like that).

        But it is about looking after themselves. The main fault with the awards systems is that politicians have their sticky fingers all over it. I would have hoped that a true left-wing Labour-led government would not have recognised such a man. But that’s not what we’ve got.

        I wonder as an aside if the Greens and NZ First were allowed any input or a veto.

        • Mutton bird 1.3.1.1

          I suspect went something like: Bill English asked for a knighthood (through the Nats) and the govt thought it would be bad publicity to refuse him. They’d look mean and lose votes. Farrar and co would wet themselves complaining about it for years to come. That particular boil has been lanced.

        • DH 1.3.1.2

          Yeah it’s just like upper management salaries. They all scratch each others back because they’re afraid if they were to break the cycle they might miss out themselves. Self serving pricks.

        • dukeofurl 1.3.1.3

          Former British PMs once received an Earldom but Macmillan was the last to get one and as for other honours Thatcher has been the only one, being a Baroness.

          They seem to see it as a pointless gesture, why cant we. My use of an honorific is of course a parody.

      • OnceWasTIm 1.3.2

        Never mind though eh? It serves as a reminder to politicians in future who wonder why their public have no confidence or faith in them.

        Could have been worse. It could have been Dame Paula Bennett, and then Madge really would have good reason to expect people pissing on her grave (going forward)

        But then when you think of various others ….. such as in Pillars, or budgetry advice advocacy, or advocates for education, health, the indigent – it is a bit sickening.
        I hope they don’t expect any R E S P E C T because they’ll be shit out of luck.

        Maybe they were trying to be ‘fair and balanced’.
        Ms Healy does deserve respect. The double dipper (who as a Kethlik, really should have a very guilty conscience) is deserving of none.

        Like that Parmjeet Kaur on another strand, I spose it’s the difference between faith and religion. (I religiously get up at 5am and religiously take a dump at 5.30)

    • Hanswurst 1.4

      In one sense. On the other hand, Bill English and knighthoods are very much institutions of the same establishment.

    • AB 1.5

      Perhaps ‘Sir’ stands for ‘Social Investment Required’?
      Someone who places their Wellington house into a trust in order to claim $900/week in accommodation allowance for having to live in Wellington, surely shows a lack of understanding of social norms? Early identification and remediation of this problematic behaviour while Bill was still in primary school may have worked. The behaviour is particularly concerning, seeing $900 is as much as many Kiwis (most without discernibly less talent than Bill English) earn in a week.

      To add insult to injury, I had to endure listening to the smug, repellent fool wittering on about social investment this morning on RNZ.
      Let’s be clear, ‘social investment’ is a smokescreen and a propaganda exercise. Its purpose is to keep a broken economic system in place by suggesting that its victims are at fault by being somehow defective. They therefore need to identified early so they can be ‘fixed’. The truth is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the vast majority of the poor.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.6

      David Slack on Twitter: He’d have been knighted sooner but they kept sending the invitation letter to Dipton.

      😆

    • Naki man 1.7

      Well-deserved, Sir Bill.
      WTF have the Topp twins done

    • ropata 1.8

      Congrats Bill for:
      * bailing out your mates in South Canterbury Finance: $1.7 billion
      * screwing Solid Energy: $128 million
      * diverting billions worth of asset sales proceeds from social programs to banks
      * deleting 450 unusual texts to a National Party staffer and covering for a bully (Todd Barclay)

      Scumbag of the lowest order.

  2. Ed 2

    Key
    Talley
    English
    Shipley
    Estrange Corbet

    Knighthoods and dames . It would seem they area prize for committing crimes against the citizens of New Zealand and the world.

  3. Rosemary McDonald 3

    Excellent reporting from Tony Wall on our 100% Pure nation’s use of methyl bromide.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/103690904/its-banned-in-other-countries-but-new-zealand-is-using-more-toxic-methyl-bromide-than-ever

    There are three parts, so make coffee and toast and dig in.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 3.1

      Life of a worker is cheap like it would be in a third world country.

      One of the stevedores who went to hospital claims it’s not the first time workers have been exposed – “it’s a common event” – and says some colleagues have refused to work when methyl bromide is being vented.

      “They just don’t come out of their huts if they’re de-tarping.”

      The worker says he wants to speak out but has been “muzzled”.

      “If you don’t do what you’re told you get removed off the board and they don’t give you work.”

    • Hooch 3.2

      A good reason to process the logs in nz.

    • Bearded Git 3.3

      That is so scary-good post Rosemary.

    • DB 3.4

      We get hit with this stuff unloading containers for international performers. Open container, stand back. I’ve suggested large fans…

      One time a huge foreign moth flew up out of the container and off into the spotlights surrounding the grounds. As a biologist type my sphincter did clench…

      Nothing came of it. It could have been carrying eggs… But that’s the reason they’re so keen on the bromide in containers. Me, I’d just make them airtight, suck the air out, critters die, job done.

      But thinking, you know…

  4. AsleepWhileWalking 4

    Landlords complain of price gouging insulation companies.

    Ironically (in the context that this is EXACTLY what landlords inflict upon tenants) landlords point out that subsidies don’t make it cheaper, instead the subsidy is essentially additional income to the insulation company.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12062882

    • Muttonbird 4.1

      They’ve had plenty of time to get this done when the demand was lower.

      Yet they dragged their heels because providing a warm dry home for tenants is actually the very last thing on their minds. The slow uptake on the subsidy was noted.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11879566

      No use complaining about the price of insulation now – supply and demand.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.2

      Wonder how they’d feel if the Accommodation Supplement was cancelled. It is, after all, a subsidy to landlords who automatically put their prices up whenever it increases.

      • millsy 4.2.1

        Should really get rid of the AS and have a payment tied to a rental WoF. Then landlords and tenants would be able to weigh up their options and make choices based on that.

      • Andrea 4.2.2

        +111
        :-))

      • ropata 4.2.3

        rent controls with prices administered by a government agency. the market has completely failed

  5. North 5

    Oh My God ! More scribbled-out-while-half-pissed tripe from Heather Plastic-Allan, this time on prison reform and perils of the same:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12062674

    Plastic: “And yup, child rapists sometimes get as little as two years’ jail time.”

    Really ? Really really ? Where the maximum sentence for rape is 20 years ? Where the staring point without the aggravating factor of child victim is not less than 8 years ? I guess there must be one such case because if there weren’t Plastic would be lying on Trumpian scale.

    Give me the case citation Plastic. Give me the judge’s sentencing notes. I’ll bet the farm that the factors of offender’s extreme youth/age/mental impairment figured overwhelmingly in producing such an extraordinarily rare outcome.

    Plastic flicks off this “two years jail time” as though it’s reflective of modern sentencing. It’s not. Demonstrably it’s not. Actually Plastic IS lying when she peddles one extraordinarily rare sentence as “sometimes”. As misleading as allowing that this cackling yuppie fool “sometimes” engages journalism.

    As Truman Capote said of a contemporary…….”That’s not writing……that’s typing”.

    • dukeofurl 5.1

      I dont read her stuff anymore, its always as bad as you describe.
      Her analytics must have dropped as they try hide her name and just use click bait headlines

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2

      She’s obviously lying and needs to be held to account for a few million dollars and banned from ever being a journalist again.

      There should be consequences for shit like this and there isn’t.

  6. Pete 6

    Many will be disappointed in the List. Bill only got a Knighthood.

    They’d have expected Sainthood at minimum.

    • Robert Guyton 6.1

      Patron Saint of Rental Properties. Double sainthood.

      • DH 6.1.1

        At first glance i thought you’d said renal properties… which would be an appropriate place to stick his knighthood 😉

    • Incognito 6.2

      To become a Saint you’ll have to meet one vital criterion … [pun intended]

    • Draco T Bastard 6.3

      I don’t think the knighthood will help him where he, according to his own religion, is going to end up.

  7. ianmac 7

    Wouldn’t it be great if Bridges, Collins etc watched Prime’s TV 60 Minutes last night, Special Prison Edition.
    In Germany the focus is not at all about Punishment but on Rehabilitation and treating inmates with humanity. And lesser crimes have Home Detention and Community involvement, rather than as we do, lock them all away to teach each other worse skills so that on release they can do worse stuff.
    (Can’t seem to get replay on Prime?)

    • Stunned mullet 7.1

      We hardly lock them all away. The majority of detainees in NZ- have multiple serious convictions.

      • mauī 7.1.1

        Citation please.

        From what I have heard the majority of prisoners have mental health issues \ drug and alcohol problems. Help is required not damaging people further.

        • solkta 7.1.1.1

          and illiteracy. Teaching them to read can make a huge difference.

        • Incognito 7.1.1.2

          This might interest you; there are many scientific studies like this:

          Prevalence of traumatic brain injury in a male adult prison population and links with offence type

          https://aut.researchgateway.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10292/10718/Mitchell%20-prevalence%20of%20TBI%20in%20prison%20revised%20clean.pdf?sequence=5&isAllowed=y

          • mauī 7.1.1.2.1

            Interesting thanks.

          • greywarshark 7.1.1.2.2

            I remember that some years ago I was doing adult reading tutoring in a drug rehabilitation house (before it got closed down). As I worked with one young man who was trying to break habit so he could rejoin his wife and child with the addiction behind him, he told me that one task given was to read a book on someone’s experience on giving up marijuana. He said he had to be able to discuss it with the clinicians but could read the whole page and yet not remember the meaning and information at the end.

            I mentioned to the clinicians about his problem which they had not been aware of. Apparently it takes some time to get better brain functioning
            after long-term marijuana use. They had to work on that before expecting him to be able to handle reading and learning at the level normal for his age. It was part of his set steps that had to be achieved before he could meet requirements for treatment.

        • Stunned Mullet 7.1.1.3

          Tell you what when xianmac provides a link that we lock them all up i’ll provide a link to demonstrate the counterfactual.

          Regarding drug and alcohol problems, yes it is a major problem.

          http://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/newsletters_and_brochures/tackling_alcohol_and_drug_abuse.html

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.3.1

            You made a statement – now back it up or we must assume that you’re lying.

        • Wayne 7.1.1.4

          maui,

          They probably mostly do have these problems. But they also commit very violent crimes. About two thirds of all inmates are in for serious violent and sexual crimes. In addition a fair number for serious drug dealing, and a fair number for serious fraud. The other category are serious repeat driving offenders, such as killing or injuring someone when driving drunk.

          Is their scope to reduce prisoner numbers? Yes, but not by 30%, more realistically 10%, at least in the median term.

          I know that we are often said to be among the highest imprisoners in the OECD. That is correct. We are in a band of UK, Canada, Australia and some central european nations. We are often at the top of that group, as indeed are our crime rates. Many European nations have lower imprisonment rates, typically 50 to 60% lower. They also have lower crime rates.

          The US is out in their own category. To put it in perspective, if we imprisoned at the US rate we would have 45,000 prisoners instead of the 11,000 we actually have. US crime rates, especially for homicide, are about 4 times higher than NZ.

          So we are often at no 2 in the OECD, but the rate is basically comparable to Australia, the UK and Canada. We are miles less than the US.

          One reason we have a high crime rate is the prevalence of gangs in NZ, which now date back to the 1960’s. Not Rotary! But Headhunters, Mongrel Mob, etc. Again the percentage of people in criminal gangs is higher in NZ than most other OECD countries.

          Gang life is characterised by extreme violence and sexual crimes. And unfortunately has become multi-generational. If we could reduce the appeal of gangs by say 30 to 50%, then our crime rate would also dramatically reduce.

          Not easy, but it should be able to be done. After all most people in poorer social economic communities (where gangs are most prevalent) don’t actually join gangs. So we need to ask why is that? Why can most young people resist the temptation and others not.

      • Incognito 7.1.2

        Oh get off the grass, please!

        We don’t know how to deal with members of our society when they are amidst us and we have even less of a clue on how to deal with convicts. Maybe we should start a reasoned debate or do you think this is too early for little New Zealand?

      • North 7.1.3

        Again you miss the point SM.

        The point is that we have a social, legal, financial, moral disaster on our hands which all of us have an obligation to acknowledge and address without minimisation. Minimisation benefits only dog-whistling rightist politicians, blood-lusters like the SST’s Garth McCrackers, and multi-national private jailers.

        No we don’t “lock them all away” as you irrelevantly say. Why “irrelevantly” ? Because the social, legal, financial, moral disaster exists without us doing that.

        So, you miss the point. Again. So that you can stick out your fragile rightist mindset. Again. As always. Strutting for dog-whistlers, blood-lusters, and private jailers. What do you get ? The look of a fool.

        • Stunned mullet 7.1.3.1

          The real issue regarding our inmates is the one that no one likes to mention..

          http://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research_and_statistics/quarterly_prison_statistics/prison_stats_june_2017.html

          …but feel free to continue with your odiferous burbling.

          • Incognito 7.1.3.1.1

            The real issue is that there’s an issue, really. OMG!

            I know the solution to said issue: we have to find a solution. FFS!

            Any chance of lifting the debate above the level of the an average 5-yr old?

          • North 7.1.3.1.2

            Stunned…….would be helpful if you’d actually identify from the vast body of material in the Corrections Department link you provide, “the issue” you mention. Which you cryptically complain “no one likes to mention”.

            C’mon Stunned……don’t be coy. Out with it. As long as you don’t launch into a Roseanne Barr racist white-trash rant though.

            Still, as rotten as that would be it would confirm your penchant for inadvertently making the point by missing it.

            • Stunned Mullet 7.1.3.1.2.1

              pfft usual cant from North…why don’t you pop off with moz and have a conniption over the feline Galloway.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.3.1.3

            The number on remand, who’ve been convicted of nothing, and the time they spend on remand, which is gradually increasing.

            One feature of a functional justice system is that it be able to provide swift justice, primarily for the victims’ sake. So much for right wing crocodile tears about victims’ rights.

          • ianmac 7.1.3.1.4

            Interesting stats thanks Stunned Mullet. But not sure what your point is. What say 50% of those in custody would be better off being helped in a variety of well organised facilities out in society? Drugs, alcohol, mental, learning to read and handle social maths and work support?
            And yes there are said to be 100 very serious offenders who should be really locked up. (0.01%) But lets not use those few serious offenders to get in the way of discussion.

            • ianmac 7.1.3.1.4.1

              Nearly 3,000 people are locked up on Remand, without and before conviction. Probably because the strident screamers have pointed to a few cases where a person not on remand but awaiting trial has gone has gone on to commit a gruesome crime, but 3,000???

              • ianmac

                And instead of justifying longer sentences maybe we should be getting serious about Victim Support, almost as a separate issue.

          • greywarshark 7.1.3.1.5

            Odiferous burbling? Can you try and concentrate and discuss important issues instead of using this post as a therapeutic place to release your simple prejudices? The problems now need real thought, research and practical modern methods to change the bad statistics. You are just one of the 19th century repressors and judgmentals who find it a bridge too far to think in today’s mode to deal with today’s problems in the chemical and television and technology mind-bending age.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.2

      Do you think they are ignorant of the facts? I don’t. I think they have a different goal in mind: putting taxpayers’ money into the back pockets of private prison owners.

      Just as they were fully aware of the massive fraud that is meth testing. Just as they were fully aware of the situation at Middlemore.

  8. Morrissey 8

    Unforgettable Ass-Kickings
    No. 2: George Galloway deals to Christopher Hitchens

    Remember these two had quite a history. Galloway had humiliated Hitchens on at least a couple of occasions before this one. At the 3:25 mark here, watch Hitchens nearly choking on bile as Galloway points out he’s a liar…

    Unforgettable Ass-Kickings is a series compiled by Hector Stoop and presented by Morrissey Breen for Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    No. 1: Ed Herman deals to Christopher Hitchens

    Open mike 18/07/2013

    • North 8.1

      Hitchens (now unmemorably deceased) exemplified the loon who starts off pointedly Left and ends up pointedly, disgustingly Right. Richard “Mad Dog” Prebble anyone ?

      Galloway marches on, indefatigably, hypocrites and scabs left confounded in his wake. See him here before a US Senate committee:

      • Morrissey 8.1.1

        Thanks North! Making this even better, as I’m sure you’re aware, Galloway’s demolition of Senator Coleman was immediately preceded by his dispatching to the boundary of one… Christopher Hitchens! The self-appointed Scourge of Princess Diana attempted to taunt Galloway before his appearance at the Committee, and even in that highly charged atmosphere Galloway humiliated him. The defeated Hitchens was caught shortly afterwards on camera, snarling “You really are a thug!”

        Once again, thanks for posting this classic.

    • Babayaga 8.2

      The first clip you cite is edited – have you seen the full discussion?

      YouTube is full off clips in which supporters of one side or the other claim their ‘man’ won the day. Here’s an example for you:

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-kUy4LxxuFQ.

      It’s puerile. I enjoy both Galloway and the late Hitchens, but grow up old chap and firm your own opinions.

  9. Morrissey 9

    The insufferable Owen Jones

    He’s way out of his depth with the far sharper, far more thoughtful and well read Jonathan Pie….

    • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1

      Tom Walker is a funny guy.

      “People who think Pie is real the first time they see him,” he says, “just means that I’ve done my job as an actor…

      …sometimes I deliberately make him contrarian or make him wrong…”

      Next up: Duane Gish, master debater…

  10. mary_a 10

    Pete (6) … according to some lost souls, only Key deserves a sainthood!

  11. mary_a 11

    Now we have Sir Deceiving Defrauding Double Dipper of Dipton! An attempt at ripping off the taxpayer. Then there is the Todd Barclay affair. Something for which Blinglish wasn’t made accountable for. Possibly much more malevolence behind the scenes as well.

    Key, English et al … seems honorifics are only reserved for the slimy con artists and crooks of the land!

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      Key, English et al … seems honorifics are only reserved for the slimy con artists and crooks of the land!

      That does seem to be true.

      We need to remove the giving of honorific from the politicians and give it to the people. Add one aspect to it as well – nobody can get one for doing their job.

  12. Brigid 12

    Over 70 Syrian tribes issued a joint statement on Saturday that announced the formation of a new combined force that would fight the US-backed militias and foreign troops in northern Syria.
    The tribesmen from the Al-Hasakah, Aleppo, and Al-Raqqa governorates reportedly met in the government-held city of Deir Hafer, where they all agreed that they will come together to expel the US and their militias from their provinces.
    Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad stated during his latest interview with Russia Today that the US-backed forces and foreign troops in northern Syria will be dealt with militarily if they do not withdrawal.

    The Pentagon responded to this threat by warning the Syrian President that any attack on their forces in Syria will end ‘badly’ for him.

    https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/over-70-syrian-tribes-declare-war-on-us-backed-forces-foreign-troops-in-northern-syria/

    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1

      Not sure if having his army and airforce destroyed are in Assad;’s best interests. Consider what happened to the Wagner mercenaries.

      Of course it’s always possible that the Kremlin will order Trump to withdraw US troops, but would he comply? How well do fascist kleptocrats get along? Are the pee-tapes really that much blackmail currency against the guy with the Pentagon at his disposal?

      Nah, I’m picking a tense stand-off.

      • Brigid 12.1.1

        It’s that the US arrogance shows no bounds.
        “The Pentagon responded to this threat by warning the Syrian President that any attack on their forces in Syria will end ‘badly’ for him.”

        The Wagner mercenaries were a disaffected bunch from the Urals, poorly trained and equipped. The ultimate question is: who pays Wagner and the numerous other Russian private military companies.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1.1.1

          Arrogance, or a simple statement of fact. The destruction of the Syrian army and air-force would destablise the region again. Assad would be lucky to survive this.

          “Poorly equipped”, depends who they’re fighting. If it’s the US military, “poorly” is an understatement. Poorly trained? Depends who you ask.

  13. greywarshark 13

    Here is an ironic picture of comfortable and complacent minds confronted by modernity and change and feeling like hermit crabs forced out of their shells.
    From the wit of Tom Sharpe in Porterhouse Blues.

    Lunch was a mournful occasion. It was the end of term and the Fellows at High Table ate in a silence made all the more noticeable by the lack of conversation from the empty tables below them. To make matters worse, the soup was cold and there was cottage pie. But it was the knowledge of their own dispensability that cast gloom over them.

    For five hundred years they and their predecessors had ordained at least some portion of the elite that had ruled the nation. It had been through the sieve of their indulgent bigotry that young men had squeezed to become judges and lawyers, politicians and soldiers, men of affairs, all of them imbued with a corporate complacency and an intellectual scepticism that desiccated change. They were the guardians of political inertia and their role was done. They had succumbed at last to the least effectual of politicians.

    ‘A student council to run the College. It’s monstrous,’ said the Senior Tutor, but there was no hope in his protest. Despite his cultivated mediocrity of mind, the Senior Tutor had seen change coming. He blamed the sciences for re-establishing the mirage of truth, and still more the pseudomorph subjects like anthropology and economics whose adepts substituted inapplicable statistics for the ineptness of their insights.

    And finally there was sociology with its absurd maxim, The Proper Study of Mankind is Man, which typically it took from a man the Senior Tutor would have rejected as unfit to cox the rugger boat….

    ‘There must be something we can do,’ said the Dean.
    ‘Short of murder I can think of nothing,’ the Senior Tutor answered.

    Caesar, watch your back for conspirators!

  14. ianmac 14

    The crime here is that Forestry is allowed to let log litter accumulate with catastrophic effect on Tolaga Bay people and their homes when the rain comes.

    Scroll down the page to see the huge accumulation of logs.

    A woman, her partner and their four-year-old granddaughter had no choice but to climb on to their roof while they waited for a rescue helicopter to arrive as water smashed against their home.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12064261

    • greywarshark 14.1

      Mention in this report about unstable land occurs in relation to roading here:
      (I am not expert in handling docos and obtaining info from them – I couldn’t just highlight and copy bits I wanted to show. Have done my best. It looks as if there were not adequate demands made as to the aftercare of logged areas which has left these people lower down in Tolaga Bay etc exposed to damage.
      )
      MAF ‘East Coast forest industry and wood availability forecasts 2008’
      https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/854/loggedIn

      The unstable nature of the East Coast landscape and the
      roads location of many of the newer forests in less accessible
      areas of the region will pose a challenge for the future
      expansion of forestry operations. The cost of obtaining
      and carting roading materials will also affect profitability
      of operations.’…

      Biofuels and cogen potential
      A very large resource of pulpwood and other by-products
      are potentially available – subject to the economics of use
      for biofuels, cogeneration or other reconstituted wood
      products.

      When landing slash is counted, the potential
      volume is much greater than that shown in this report;
      this could be particularly significant for the East Coast
      communities north of Gisborne who are currently
      serviced with electricity via limited infrastructure.

      The current lack of a local market for pulp wood and
      other by-products is a constraint on harvest profitability
      and limits the maximum utilisation of forest production.

      It is unlikely that cut-over recovery of residues will be
      economic, owing to the predominantly very steep
      topography of much of the production forests and the
      distance to a potential plant in one of the main centres on
      region, what is really required is a world-scale solid wood
      the East Coast.

      Limited Wood Processing Capability
      The current lack of local processing is a constraint that
      leaves forest owners with few options other than to export
      large volumes of logs.
      This leaves the region exposed to the log export
      market and limited port facilities.
      With transport costs making the long cartage of lower value
      material marginal or unprofitable, the regional harvest is ‘
      at risk of losing potential added-value through the
      processing or utilisation of this material as it gets left on
      the cut-over.
      A greater number of competitive options for
      the full range of log products on the East Coast will
      contribute considerably to the region’s forestry success.

      Part Concluding Comments:
      There is still substantial potential for expansion of the
      existing forest estate on the East Coast, although all this
      may not necessarily be for production purposes, but for
      other values such as watershed management, erosion
      control and carbon sequestration.

      There is discussion about new planting which will also provide land stabilisation.

      There is a possibility of businesses setting up wood handling factories when the market is right, and the flow of wood makes it economic and the factor of carbon sequestration.

      There is talk about the steep slopes and the need for cable-hauling which requires skilled workers.

      There is mention of the okay being given if there is attention given by the loggers to erosion, water etc.

      The GDC is a unitary authority that keeps control of important issues relating to land disturbance and logging and clearing and resource consents are required.
      Liaison with the Department of Conservation may be required because of the extent and species affected by clearing and logging.


      The consent process associated with the harvesting of forests on the East Coast has generally not been an issue.

      It seems that the matter of dealing with cut down left-overs has been put on the back burner in the eagerness to get into the log trade, and the intention has been to utilise it at a later date for electricity if there is a viable market for it. It appears that no warning bells have sounded about the instability of the land left bare and the residue from logging left lying where they could be dislodged by expected heavy rain storms although this is a known result of other logging sites in NZ which have been left in a disorganised fashion and have resulted in damage to housing and property and likely to injure people and animals as they have rolled or propelled down slopes onto those below.

      • Exkiwiforces 14.1.1

        Would think if the Gizzy to Napier Railway was still operational that some or all of the by-product could’ve been rail out in bulk with Gizzy being the bulk handing depot for the trucks etc? Or have a Bio- Fuel power plant at Napier to supply the Hawke’s Bay- Gizzy regions?

        • greywarshark 14.1.1.1

          Don’t know when the trees were felled but as you say the fact of having the rail could have made a big difference in choices of what could be done about the leftover stuff (not correct forestry term!). But NZ had to wait to get a political party that wasn’t constipated. I think within the report it talks about bio-fuel plant. But I was mainly looking for specific mention that the area had to be left in good condition with leftovers stacked safely etc. and didn’t find anything that definite. She’ll be right mate.

          So much of our forestry resource that we should have kept and run for the national good in the effective way, has been sold to big firms and institutions

          In 1999 Forest & Bird criticised Carter Holt Harvey selling a forest to the east of Taupo to a private buyer. The block was considered to be one of the most ecologically valuable areas of forest in the North Island. Carters in 1994 had withdrawn the forest, Pohokura from sale, and agreed to secure its protection and manage it in consultation with Forest and Bird and DoC. F&B said,”Unfortunately the American managers who now run Carter Holt Harvey Forests have a hardline attitude on environmental issues…they do not wish to work co-operatively with the NZ conservation movement.”
          (Newsroom Forest and Bird Press release 2/12/99 16:37:00 Native Forest Sale Breach of Forest Accord.)

          Also Fletcher Challenge sold 51% interests in Nelson in 1997 to giant Weyerhaeuser for $275 million; the other 49% was owned by foreign institutional investors.
          Weyerhaeuser owned or was licensed to operate on an area approaching the size of the entire North Island, 11.4 million hectares, almost three-quarters of which was classed as productive forest land.
          The Nelson Mail p15 28/9/99

          • ianmac 14.1.1.1.1

            If I had a big pile of flotsam on my property and a storm washed it all onto the street causing flooding to spread to other houses, will I be exempt for damages so caused? (I am just a little person so it would be easier to punish me.)

          • Exkiwiforces 14.1.1.1.2

            I understand what you are saying, with everyone after a quick buck and to hell with everyone especially with outsiders in an management role not understanding NZ workers/ culture in IRT protecting the environment etc.

            I can a story about Weyerhaeuser and Fletchers that involve one of my cousins, who runs a forestry contacting gang who runs it like an old school NZ Forest Service logging gang based around a semi co-op system (just how the family ran the coal mine on Coast).

            He was asked by Fletchers to move down to Nelson and they going top dollar as well cost to move everyone lock stock and barrel because of his very standards/ skill sets they had. Anyway if they had moved down from Nth Isl, Fletchers sold out and this mob moved in straight away cutting costs left right centre ie bringing in the Nth America logging practices which BTW are bloody dangerous to an already dangerous job. To a point that he was being under cut by other logging gangs and final straw was when he got the job to work over the hill (Golden Bay Area), but Weyerhaeuser refuse to pay any accommodation and transport costs and basically he told them where to go. He left Nelson with his gang and equipment back to the Nth Isl after my grandmother help out as she pull a strings as he was going to call it quits and after a couple of leans yrs doing jobs that no one would do! He’s doing even better now because they starting to understand that cost cutting comes with a price, to a point some yrs later the muppets from Weyerhaeuser came crawling back ask him to work for them and in true West Coast/ typical family style he told them where to bloody go.

      • DB 14.1.2

        There are a myriad ways to use forestry by-products. What we want is sustainability.

        We can innoculate the stumps with various mushroom species providing secondary crops for foresters/locals while making topsoil of the stumps.

        Deadwood that is not transported offsite for re-purposing is laid flat to the ground so as to decompose further adding substrate for the soil building by fungi and other microorganisms. This also helps protect the soil when it is exposed after cropping. Brushwood piles are ridiculous constructs of the human mind that likes to ‘sweep clean’.

        The placing of carbon (wood waste) with available water (ground contact for fungal access) sees opportunistic free living and plant and fungal-symbiotic nitrogen fixing organisms arrive to provide this vital resource for the process. Now nature’s working for us.

        The larger scrap wood and bark can be used to make bio-char. This amendment can greatly improve the productivity of various soil types including NZ’s yellow ultic clay which I’ve successfully experimented with for > 10 yrs now. Use of biochar also directly sequesters carbon.

        The process of making bio-char releases heat energy that can be re-purposed e.g. drying timber, heating facilities/water, running turbines. It also produces various chemical by-products that can be re-purposed in forestry and other industries.

        Biofuel from pine wastes??? We’re not really there yet it gets technical (read expensive). Best not to be pioneers of large scale expensive systems that might have several achilles heels. That’s what R&D is for.

        We can be a lot more sustainable with the guidelines above. I’d add to that system intermittently planting other crops to help the soil recover and provide alternate timber/crops to pine.

  15. greywarshark 15

    Just in case Standardistas missed one blatant bit of grandstanding by the Leader of the World watching out for our good, the United States of America.


    World
    2 Jun 2018
    China ‘intimidating neighbours’ – US
    7:02 pm on 2 June 2018 General Mattis said the Trump administration wanted a constructive relationship with China but would compete vigorously if necessary.

    The US recognised that China had a role to play in the region.

    The South China Sea, a key trade route, is subject to overlapping claims by six countries.
    China has been building small islands and other maritime features into military facilities there.

    Last month China said it had for the first time landed bombers on Woody Island in the Paracel Islands, prompting US warnings that it was destabilising the region.

    Woody Island, which China calls Yongxing, is also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan.
    The South China Sea dispute:

    Sovereignty over two largely uninhabited island chains, the Paracels and the Spratlys, is disputed by China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan and Malaysia
    China claims the largest portion of territory, saying its rights go back centuries – in 1947 it issued a map detailing its claims
    The area is a major shipping route, and a rich fishing ground, and is thought to have abundant oil and gas reserves
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/358782/china-intimidating-neighbours-us

    China warns US to stop South China Sea patrols
    7:31 am on 26 May 2017
    China is warning that the United States risks severely disrupting negotiations between stakeholders in the South China Sea after an American warship sailed close to one of its artificial islands in the disputed waters.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/331619/us-patrols-very-likely-to-cause-unexpected-accidents-china

    • Exkiwiforces 15.1

      I’ve just started reading this book I got off Fishpond called “Globalisation and Defence in the Asia-Pacific – Arms across Asia” which is a collection of Essays edited by Geoffrey Till, Emrys Chew and Joshua Ho.
      Chapter 2, last night was a bit interesting IRT what is happening in the South China Sea using a couple of theories called “The Long Wave by Nikolai Kondrative in the 1920’s and the Leadership Cycle” in which both talk about War between a new up and coming nation challenging the current pre-eminent nation which happens roughly once every 100yrs. “This system leader holds a preponderance of key military capabilities (chiefly blue- water sea power, they argue) while boasting the lead economy in terms of size and innovative energy. Regular rhythms in the global economy are related to the rise of this leading state. Just as importantly, key economic trends and the prospects for peace and war are found to be associated with rise, ascendancy and decline of one system leader, and the struggle to produce the next one.”

      When one looks at the 50yr cycle of the Kondratiev waves and with the 100yr long Leadership Cycle. You would see Waves of technological innovations (leading sectors in the Global Economy) are very much connected to the rise and decline of global political systems dominated by a hegemonic state.

      Last the last two sentences in the conclusion: “ Because globalisation disperses the control of capital, technology and the markets as never before, it remains to seen weather a single state can establish and maintain dominance in the global system on the basis of military might alone. The prospect for peace, we need to know whether the presence of such hegemon will provoke the bellicose challenges to its dominance, the competitive arms build ups and the formation of freshly armed counter- coalitions- for these are the very things which stirred and brewed into systemic war once in every century for the past 500yrs.”

      By my reckoning based on what I readed last night we are slowly heading to war on given and current trends within the Asia- Pacific region ATM and with the USA at its peak of the cycle or on top of wave which is about to break as new comer seeks to challenge the dominance of the US.

      We live interesting times.

      • greywarshark 15.1.1

        The public has a tolerance for other people’s suffering. We seem to have been at war or in a state of unease, a push button away from war, since WW2. On the surface it seems as if we are at peace but there are the Syrian reports, the Burmese reports, another little boat that has gone down off Africa. And there is enormous interest in films about war, I was just reading about the enormous business there is in land mines and things called butterfly bombs, and armaments are a big trade. Is it that peace is a cessation of war, a breathing space before the next one starts?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_1945%E2%80%931989

        • Exkiwiforces 15.1.1.1

          With all these poxy wars happening atm it seems it could be the prelude to the main event?

          IRT to the Middle East ATM its watching the start of a yacht race with everyone jockeying for positions at the start and when it does kick off it going to be like watching the Grand National Jumps Race at Antree wondering who is going to be last horse standing.

          Chapter 2 of the book mentions this is the longest period of peace since WW2 IRT major inter-state wars, but in saying that the long term trend when one looks at that a major inter-state war will break out sooner or later.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 15.1.2

        USSR ordered a death sentence after Kondratiev and his wave predicted the fall of Communism.

        The ability of his theory to predict cycles has proven very accurate.

        • Exkiwiforces 15.1.2.1

          The Kondratiev wave is very interesting theory and when you combine it with the 100yr Leadership cycle to what’s happening in the Asia- Pacific Region atm, it makes for some interesting reading.

  16. Ed 16

    We are killing the world’s species

    #1. Terms, kittiwakes and puffins

    “This grim description is backed by figures that reveal the staggering decreases in seabird numbers in Shetland, the most northerly part of the British Isles. In 2000, there were more than 33,000 puffins on the island in early spring. That figure dropped to 570 last year……

    ….Similarly, Shetland’s kittiwake population plummeted from over 55,000 in 1981 to 5,000 in 2011…..

    ……there were around 110 Arctic terns there last week compared with around 9,000 that were counted in the same area in 2000. ”

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/03/shetland-seabirds-climate-change-catastrophe-terns-kittiwakes-puffins

  17. eco maori 17

    Good morning Newshub Flooding in Tairawhiti Uawa Whangara Global warming is here and now .
    Duncan I could see Amanda and Mark disagree with you on that. I say honoring the people who deserve it for there good deeds for OUR society is a good thing we need to show more respect for our elderly and respect for te mokopunas future I.E look after the environment. James we can grow meat and dairy organically and sustainable
    Ka pai to the American mokopuna who are touring America keeping up the presser on the politician who support the Gun lobby association of America to change the laws to make it harder to get a gun for idiots.
    Smoking is a hard to quit and its hard on the poor people who are most of the smokers .But Hone te Labour lead coalition government has the long game in its sights not just tomorrow even thou there mite be less money targeting Maori more money is getting to the poor and not being chewed up by bureaucratic organizations so in reality more money is reaching Maori and not half to the paper pushers. ka pai.
    Did I hear that right Trump has just admitted to the accusations of Russian election scandal well thats what Eco Maori gets from him saying he can pardon his self.
    With the plastic bag think what I;m going to do is use those reusable bags and as soon as they are emptied put them strait into the boot of my car or one ends up with a cardboard full of those bags . Ka kite ano P.S we need to stop using any plastic that is not biodegradable

    • eco maori 17.1

      The reason Maori cultured tangata won’t go for becoming a republic is because a republic government will ride rought shod all over Maoris Humane rights the Queen is the Guardian of the Maori tangata .

      Io
      I
      Queen
      I I
      Tangata whenua NZ Goverment and people

      She has been Honorable to all her subjects and is the check that Maori have against
      corrupt intentions of some people have against Maori and the common person.
      Tangaroa buy Tiki Tane

      Eco Maori has a strong connection to Tangaroa

      • eco maori 17.1.1

        Just got in contact with the whano in Te Waiapu vally and they say the beach is covered in pine logs from the flooding . I remember when I was a child that the beach had heaps of wood when I last seen the beach there was not much wood there it will be interesting to see it now te Waiapu awa has filled up with silt now
        Ka kite ano P.S its not as bad as the flooding in Uawa

  18. eco maori 18

    5 years since Edward Snowden blew te whistle The common tangata person who let te tangata of Papatuanuku know that they were /are being spied on by Governments and big companys .Te kumara never tells how sweet it is the link below ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/04/edward-snowden-people-still-powerless-but-aware

    • Eco Maori 18.1

      Eco Maori is trying to have a truce with the sandflys but if they don’t stop trying to intimidat ECO MAORI that they can kiss my – – – – – –
      Ana to kai Ka kite ano P.S I know what’s going down

  19. Eco Maori 19

    Well I got my answers already from the sandflys so don’t go having te Waiapu come out your eyes when yous get bit on the – – – – Ana to kai Ka kite ano

  20. Eco Maori 20

    I already tried to get the sandflys bosses to realise that other people are being affected negative buy there actions my clients have one family split because of them as ECO MAORI has done nothing wrong I realise that I’m unique In that I can think about who my actions affect that goes right over the sandflys heads I will still be coming back to Rotorua and travelling anywhere in Aotearoa. Ka kite ano

  21. Eco Maori 21

    Anything negative happens to anyone it’s all on the sandflys Ka kite ano

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