Very kind of you to ask Patricia. Just been started on some anti biotics as Dr thinks I have a secondary infection. I am hoping this will do the trick.
And thanks to Anne's kind comments on another post. I couldn't respond, because there didn't seem to be a reply button. What you said Anne was very much appreciated.
One of the few ways we can reduce pressure on the lack of health sector capability is to improve the well-being of New Zealanders.
Every drug intervention that reduces demand on limited health (staff/equipment) resources is useful.
For years we skimped on such drug availability because of the cost to Pharmac while transferring the consequences to a health service that could not cope (and at far greater cost and worse health outcomes/loss of work capability). Madness.
CF is neither preventable not curable and affects a relatively small number of New Zealanders. Unless Pharmac resources (funding) is increased such watershed moments will be far between.
The only word in your comment I disagree with is “centrally” but yes, 100% agree. The question is how best one achieves keeping something so precious in public ownership for future generations. Many people seem to think that once you manage something you practically own it too. It becomes even more confusing when you throw in terms and concepts such as stewardship, governance, guardianship, and trustees (not necessarily only in the legal sense). The legal boffins who were very quick to judge the entrenchment shambles quickly run out of words and tools to suggest an alternative.
This is pretty dam silly IMO – I believe entrenching Public ownership of water would be a big vote winner those arguing against it would be open to being accused they want to sell it – An enormous vote loser IMO
Not exactly my words but definitely my sentiments.
Three Waters needs to get through before the House rises this year. Once it gets enacted, our (personal and parliamentary) long break follows and many things are forgotten or become less worrying after a break and time with friends and family.
Just tried to link to where I set out the sitting days until Christmas but search returns the word ‘nothing’
But it is hard getting traction with people over the break. Getting people all upset over the break does not work so that momentum is lost. Once the legislation is enacted any voices by the opposition become clanging symbols/empty vessels.
I did not say that he issue goes away but the ability to manufacture outrage is diminished by
people not wanting to waste brain power over a break, they just want to cog down (why do you think we have 'pap' on TV and long reads on interesting topics in the newspapers).
moving into implementation mode
I have no doubt that all those parties will fan/manufacture the fires of outrage but people lose interest.
Th election is more likely to be on issues such as the propensity of those parties to privatise anything that moves if they get to be in office. Their inability to support entrenchment against privatising to show that they will treat water as a public good may backfire.
Indeed, let’s stick with number 8 wire and black tape because that has served us so well i.e., if it ain’t broken yet keep your fingers crossed and your head in the sand for as long as possible. No need to borrow more and at much higher interest rates than currently.
Oh dear Incognito, you are getting desperate. No8 wire was not promoted (though it does have its uses)….ask yourself WHY we havnt provided the needed investment in our infrastructure these past decades?
We haven’t?? Where did my rates go to then? I’m sure it said that some of it went towards water servicing costs. When I’ll get home, I will check my latest rates invoice.
Water is a public good, AFAIK, and as such does not and should not be centralised/re-centralised, whatever you mean by that.
The Government is proposing to create 4 regional entities to manage the country’s current [three] water services; ownership remains with Councils and the likes; what the co-governance will look like is anybody’s guess at the moment. As such, there is no and should not be any talk of centralisation/re-centralisation in this context.
I completely and utterly agree with everything else you said.
That's what you do before you have legislation that's gone through Select Committee and is gone through second reading. Then you put it up, get your MPs on radio and tv, etc.
What was needed today was a specific legislative text ready to go as a fresh SOP.
Agree Ad but it may (being optimistic) help in skewering opposition parties trying to nay say Three Waters and who clearly believe (by not supporting entrenchment clauses) in the ability to privatise.
But clear thoughts in readable articles over the break may help tamp down party driven public concern/educate the public.
not sure how you are using discursive there, but Lew's argument is that entrenchment shouldn't be used in this case, but protecting water from privatisation could be done via a GE/binding referendum. This is not dependent on three waters.
What was needed today was a specific legislative text ready to go as a fresh SOP.
The well is already poisoned. "The people" have had their perceptions irremediably tainted. The left need to take a lesson in how the right mount saturation propaganda campaigns through the organisations that naturally align with them.
Updating their CV's would be a good idea,if they double down for an additional 4%,problematic issues with multiple stories from the PM,and wilful misdirection on cause and effect.
Winston is being as slippery as Teflon-John in a bucket of snot because Ardern didn’t use those exact words, did she? But hey, it’s SM (Twitter) and everybody knows what he means so it is pretty ok to twist the words a little to create one’s preferred narrative.
What I saw and heard on the post cabinet press conference,was the PM and Hitchens saying they were unaware that the amended entrenchment was in until it had been passed.
Mahuta said it had been discussed at the labour caucus,can both arguments be correct?
It seems that Winston’s word is good enough for you and that you just lapped it up without fact-checking. Ardern never said those exact words, AFAIK, but what she did say is that the team takes one for the team and will fix it as a [united] team, i.e., without the scapegoating, finger-pointing, and public blaming & shaming that media and the opposition parties are so fond of – heads must roll – and Luxon is clearly like a bloodhound on that trail of irrelevancy. Perhaps that subtle difference is lost on you but surely not on that old fox Winston with his divisive tactics and rhetoric that suckered you in.
Perhaps you can find a recording with time stamp where Ardern used those exact words as asserted by Winston.
Anywho, this is not about what Mahuta said, but what Ardern said according to the Gospel of Peters, so please don’t divert.
PS who’s Hitchens? I thought he had died many years ago.
Are you confirming Winston’s tweeted Trumpian assertion? Or are you diverting away from that tweet that you posted before, like a tiny Trojan? It seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it.
You have failed to provide a time stamp but this most likely is because you cannot back up Winston’s claim.
I am not diverting from the tweet,the PM and the leader of the house stated they were unaware last monday ( that is a week ago see calenders they provide time lines eg a week = 7 days )
Peters is voicing what is widely reported,that they said they were unaware of the amendment.
The order paper was agreed between Green MP Eugenie Sage and Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta, according to Sage. But Minister Chris Hipkins, Labour’s Leader of the House, said he wasn’t aware of the party seeking a 60% majority threshold on the issue. Ardern said the change to the law was made “in real time” and wasn’t something “I would necessarily be aware of”.
Is “Peters is voicing” a euphemism for putting words into the PM’s mouth? If so, you seem quite ok with that. If not, where is his quote coming from, with time stamp, please?
You posted that Trumpian tweet, and you’ve been running away from it faster than Luxon flips burgers and does U-turns on statements.
No self-respecting TS commenter would willingly do the dirty work of and for Winston Peters.
Sorry do you not understand what has been reported from the press conference in the links provided,which include the segments from the PM.
Do you understand what aware is ? what would the statements mean
The order paper was agreed between Green MP Eugenie Sage and Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta, according to Sage. But Minister Chris Hipkins, Labour’s Leader of the House, said he wasn’t aware of the party seeking a 60% majority threshold on the issue. Ardern said the change to the law was made “in real time” and wasn’t something “I would necessarily be aware of”.
The order paper was agreed between Green MP Eugenie Sage and Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta, according to Sage. But Minister Chris Hipkins, Labour’s Leader of the House, said he wasn’t aware of the party seeking a 60% majority threshold on the issue. Ardern said the change to the law was made “in real time” and wasn’t something “I would necessarily be aware of”
So Peters is suggesting that the PM was unaware (which the PM also stated as did the leader of the house)
I cannot see your argument for falsification,ill posed as it was, as any dictionary will show what unaware is.If you argument is different from my assumptions,( or the dictionary definitions) or the reported detail,maybe you should explain it more clearly,where there is an ambiguity.
And now you have changed it to “Peters is suggesting” 😀
No wonder you cannot provide a time stamp to support the fake quote by Peters that you spread all too happily.
We, or at least I, expect Peters’ rhetoric to be too unreliable to take at face value. It seems that your comments have reached the same standard of truthiness.
It was a live press conference,like the one this afternoon,where at 4.35 pm NZDST the PM mentioned the SOP in passing,and said we will not be focussing on an individual,the caucus has undertaken a collective responsibility (which includes retrenchment) similar to cabinet responsibilites.
The reporting of last weeks press conference has been shown in the available links across this thread of which you seem unaware of.
The alternative assumption that the PM was aware of what was being proposed in the SOP,seems to be what you are arguing for,which seems very strange,and a political landmine i would argue.
The argument is the PM was either aware of the reduced number in the SOP (for without reduction entrenchment was dead in the water) or unaware,without any other evidence I will take her and the leaders quoted answers,
It was a live press conference,like the one this afternoon,where at 4.35 pm NZDST the PM mentioned the SOP in passing …
Thank you but where is your link to the recording “like” the recording that I’ve been asking for since the cows left home?
And this was after the tweet by Peters! So, irrelevant.
I’m not aware of what the PM is or is not aware of.
However, I’m aware of Peter’s misleading tweet containing a fake quote that you wilfully linked to here on TS to spin a narrative of “wilful misdirection” on behalf of the PM.
The irony is that you have been obfuscating and diverting from your own contribution to and role in spreading Peter’s nefarious spin as if you are unaware of it: Peters this, Peters that, Peters whatever …
I think Peters will be mightily happy with your efforts here and I almost expect him to pop up here and like your comments.
The misdirection was saying that there was a probability of privatizing the water assets by the nat/act,when the only statements i have heard was a repeal of the legislation
I’m not aware of what the PM is or is not aware of.
Checks dictionary. Are you aware of the PM statements
So the PM was not aware of the reduced % of the entrenchment provisions and the leader of the house was not either (until after the event) as the SOP novel approach was introduced in real time.
The order paper was agreed between Green MP Eugenie Sage and Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta, according to Sage. But Minister Chris Hipkins, Labour’s Leader of the House, said he wasn’t aware of the party seeking a 60% majority threshold on the issue. Ardern said the change to the law was made “in real time” and wasn’t something “I would necessarily be aware of”.
Are you and Winston Peters aware of what the PM said and has not said? Peters seems happy enough to create his own narrative and you seem happy enough to spread it around as factual.
I’m sure you can correct this misdirection by a link with time stamp but you have not done so, which begs the questions what is stopping you and why are you spreading Peters’ BS assertions that belong on Twitter. (NB I love the blue check mark on Peters’ account, which shows it comes from the genuine spin-master)
Yes you are correct Incognito,Winston was using misdirection and I was mistaken,she must have known all along that the reduced % for retrenchment would be introduced by stealth (by means of an SPO) as it was discussed at caucus therefore full responsibility lies with the PM for unsignalled legislation under urgency,with all the constitutional problems it entailed.
BTW speaking of blue ticks,Apple just confirmed their advertising on twitter.
One of the problems with the dogmatic obsession of neoliberals on personal responsibility is the fixation on blaming, isolating, and punishing individuals for perceived misdemeanours and faux pas. Perhaps this is also the reason why neoliberals always stress [about] transparency and accountability, especially of civil servants, so that they can better aim & target individuals doing their job (and making mistakes).
Musk will be over the moon with Apple, if it is true what you say.
Actually I was using the PM and Hipkins when they stated that they were unaware of the novel use of an entrenchment provision.
It is also in the MSM,if you followed.
Last week, Hipkins said he did not know Sage had proposed to set entrenchment at 60%. She had to do so to get her provision across the line, because the National Party did not support it.
…. Ardern said last week was not familiar with Sage’s provision, as she wasn’t in the House when it was voted on. But Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta confirmed to Stuff that this was discussed in a caucus meeting which Ardern attended.
it’s a big mess, and I’m not sure anyone knows what happened. Much of the discussion on SM and MSM has at times conflated the entrenchment itself with the %. I have stopped following because it’s crazy making. Let me know if you find a timeline though, that would be very useful.
Lew is your classic very serious person, thinking he is a "moderate liberal" who is in fact almost entirely a neoliberal apologist. He demands elite debate be framed by norms of middle class politeness and dislikes the vulgar and disruptive nature of both the left and the right. Above all, he constantly gives the technocratic establishment the benefit of the doubt.
Labour needs to ask itself a simple political quesion – how many votes do pearl clutching centrists and legal academics command? Then once they’ve worked out they are onto a vote winner tell them all to fuck off, they are the government and they have decided to entrench the protection of water as a public asset. They can take their constitutional concerns over "fettering parliament" and shove it.
If they don't like it they can climb down from their ivory towers to join the opposition and campaign to repeal the entrenchment of public ownership of water.
Let's see how many votes telling the public they don't mind private corporations (even Maori ones!!!!) "fetterring parliament's ability to decide" once water has been privatised gets them.
The provision of water supply requires operational amalgamation in order to deliver a fully modern and efficient service.
But the public also sense that consolidation from a governance perspective makes the asset more vulnerable to privatisation.
There is some merit in having water assets owned by a hodge-podge of many local councils – it keeps control diffuse and difficult to sell. Sage's ill-fated entrenchment provision was an attempt to resolve this contradiction. Potentially a good idea, but constitutionally fatally flawed.
The compromise path left now is something like the Wellington Water model, when the regional organisation operates the asset and local councils still clearly own them. It is not ideal, but it is a way to square this particular circle.
The problem remains one where councils have debt ceilings and an inability to finance the required investment without significant rate increases.
Some (lack of ratepayers) councils cannot afford the upgrades at all and some urban councils have a lot of old infrastructure to upgrade all at once (and this is beyond debt ceiling capacity).
Each need government assistance – one the money, and the other bridging finance. There is also the issue of national planning as to scheduling because of capability constraints (skilled workers and interface with Treasury and RB as to economic activity levels).
And if that was not difficult enough, there is the issue of Maori water rights.
If you characterize the Centrist voters as "pearl clutching centriststs" – you've pretty definitively lost them. Bad news. Centrist voters decide elections.
A labour party that was the voice of the people and wasn't filled with almost exclusively academics, neoliberal apologists and the over educated professional managerial class technocrats wouldn't back down to outraged academics and would realize that actually keeping water from being privatized is a vote winner and tell the ivory tower brigade to gtfo.
Unfortunately labours parliamentary wing is full to the brim with those same technocratic ivory tower voices , a labour party with more diversity of class would have come up with a far more populist and popular alternative to to protect water and water assets, three waters is the fever dream of the very academics and pmcs outraged by entrenchment because many of them probably want the water bundled up so it can be sold off in the first place.
It may be a bit early to say that a strategic retreat is a mistake, take this to committee and whose the villain then? When National and Act don’t support Entrenchment then who is framed as wanting free reign to privatise water. This may well be the cleverest political move of the year.
It seems unlikely to be a clever political move (at least by Labour)- as both Ardern and Hipkins have come out saying that entrenchment was a "mistake" which will result in the bill being returned to committee to have the provision removed before it goes back to Parliament.
It may well be a clever political move by the Greens – who have placed their differences to Labour on this issue – front and centre with the electorate.
Patricia. Do you think that political parties should use entrenchment in areas other than constitutional ones (i.e. election law)?
The problem for Labour is that they've moved the debate from water reform to constitutional law – where they are on very shaky ground, indeed. Hence the rapid back-pedalling.
Oh, I'm happy to answer. It was just that the question had nothing to do with the actual substance of what was being discussed – Labour's backdown (and effectively admitting they were wrong) over the attempt to entrench something other than constitutional law.
No one has been discussing whether water should be a public good.
Typically, things which are regarded as 'public good' have no individual cost associated with them.
That is not the case for water – I regularly pay water rates and usage charges for the privilege of having a clean and sanitary water supply (and since I live in Auckland, am getting a fairly good deal)
There are definitely associated benefits for part-payment for water usage (those areas which have this, have much lower overall usage of water per-household, than those areas for which it is rolled into the general rates).
If you are asking whether water-supply and infrastructure should be maintained in public ownership, yes, of course I think it should be. As does every political party in NZ. Talk about a straw man argument!
If you are asking if I agree with the establishment of a massive additional layer of bureaucracy, and removal of decision-making from the people who pay for it – then, no, I do not. I think water infrastructure should remain under the control of locally elected representatives.
That is not the case for water – I regularly pay water rates and usage charges for the privilege of having a clean and sanitary water supply
One way of looking at this is that you are not so much paying for the water itself, but the provision and disposal of it in a safe and reliable manner.
Personally I think John Key had it right on this – that no-one owns water. Every single molecule migrates through vast, ceaseless hydrological cycles across the entire biosphere. It is no more realistic to allocate ownership title to water than it is to air.
The only reason why we even incorrectly think water might be ownable is that unlike air, it is transiently visible in locations like rivers, lakes and reservoirs.
The collection, delivery and disposal of safe reliable water is akin to someone filling a dive tank with compressed air – you are not buying title or ownership of the air, you are purchasing a specialised service that happens to deliver air in a clean compressed form.
The confusion arises when we a start to use pricing mechanisms to allocate scarce freshwater resources for agriculture or bottling. In this instance water is priced not in order to convey title, but to protect it from the tragedy of the commons and preserve it as a public good. A public good that is the concern of everyone – represented by the State.
Oh, I agree – that's why I specifically said paying for water supply.
Probably closer to the definition of a 'common good' than a 'public good'
As, certainly in times of drought, usage by one individual impacts on the ability of others to access water.
And, pricing impacts on usage. We've seen lots of evidence in NZ that areas which have water costs rolled into general rates – or even a separate water rate – have much higher individual usage, than those areas which meter water, and charge for water actually used by the household. IMHO – reducing water waste is a good outcome.
While I agree that no one 'owns' water – the management of the resource needs to be done at a 'commons' level. Where the Labour Party and I disagree is the governmental level at which that 'commons' should operate.
One way of looking at this is that you are not so much paying for the water itself, but the provision and disposal of it in a safe and reliable manner.
The majority of which is in the cost of capital to provide the facilities to provide it and especially to clean up before disposal. It is almost entirely overhead costs. Generally the direct production costs are all in handling the waste water. Which is why in Auckland the waste water processing charges are more than double the tap water charges.
One of the problems with agriculture as an industry is that they don’t handle waste water very well, and frequently they don’t handle it at all. It just flows away with extra phosphates, nitrates, eroded soil, sprays, etc in a true tragedy of the commons and becomes someone else pollution problem. Or it seeps into groundwater or aquifers.
Most (but not all) of the other industries and cities have had curbs on polluting for many decades. It isn’t perfect, but it is regulated and does a reasonable and improving job. Needs a lot more work. For instance the recent changes to the Waikato river plan – which look at best like they barely change the river health over the next 80 years. I’d expect that the river will keep worsening under its provisions.
What farmers proclaim as being “excessive regulation” is simply them being pulled to account for polluting land use.
No one has been discussing whether water should be a public good.
Is untreated sewerage a public good? Because that is where the bulk of the capital investment required under 3 waters is going to go. It is also the vast majority of water treatment costs are incurred.
Should we close off your toilet and let its waste spread over your lawn? I’d expect that to be unpopular as well.
If you are asking whether water-supply and infrastructure should be maintained in public ownership, yes, of course I think it should be. As does every political party in NZ. Talk about a straw man argument!
FFS: Water infrastructure includes water supply. However it also includes treatment of sewage water and what it carries and the handling (and often treatment) of storm waters.
if you want to argue something then don’t pick the cheapest part of the whole water system (provision of palatable water) and promote that as being the only part of the system.
I had no intention of separating out water supply from waste water (and, indeed, my water bills/rates cover both) – that's why I said and infrastructure..
As I said in reply to RedLogix – I think water infrastructure is probably closer to the definition of a 'common good' than a 'public good'
It is a common good that has to be paid for. It isn't free infrastructure.
I don't really give a damn if it is paid for by taxes (3waters), rates (current), or users (current). That is all the same thing. The problem is that the level of payment into water infrastructure is completely inadequate in almost every region (apart from maybe Auckland and Christchurch). The skills to put it in and maintain it are scattered and diffuse. And over the whole of NZ it is going backwards at a rate of knots.
Common good is effectively what the 3 waters is about – paying for the infrastructure with taxpayers credit because it has been under-invested for decades. There is no freaking way that most councils are up to the task of doing it better.
So 'common good' is getting worse. What is your solution for doing it properly. Or are you just going to be just another mindless whinging critic who waves their hand in the air rather than doing the hard work of looking for viable solutions?
Should we close off your toilet and let its waste spread over your lawn? I’d expect that to be unpopular as well.
Depending on how far West you’re looking and what you’re looking for you may have come across properties with septic tanks. The more modern systems are quite advanced compared to the old gravity-based strain & drain systems in order to clean up the water before it goes onto your land.
Of course, the water standards are causing friction with farmers other rural polluters too.
There’s a good reason that Three Waters bundles these things together and is even considering the connection with and impact on coastal and geothermal waters too.
I agree. Key would not have been able to enrich himself and others through asset sales. I see he is positioning himself for the next "Fire Sale." by taking a Directorship in an entity Act intend to sell off.
Evidence that Key enriched himself through asset sales?
If you have this, it would be a major scandal. IIRC, Key deliberately put his assets into a blind trust, so that he couldn't be accused of this kind of insider trading.
Good old Key, good old Watson, Fay & Richwhite etc. Top NZers with an eye to the main chance….oops too bad about the NZ assets. I wonder if they will still be around if NActs get in……perhaps they could work with The Treasury in an advisory capacity.
IIRC, Key deliberately put his assets into a blind trust
It wasn't completely blind, didn't Key blurt that he was going to make good on some investment? I forget the details. Media let him away with it, as usual.
His involvement in Mossack Fonseca and the Panama Papers scandal . The giving of Citizenship to Thiel by Nathan Guy (when he did not qualify.) The bottles of wine he gave to reporters.( from his "Blind Trust" winery. )The BBQs with some questionable characters. Sleaze really. He sold off a huge number of our assets and state houses. There is more…. but it won't sway you.
You, however, asserted that Key benefitted personally from this. I'm still waiting for the evidence….
Disliking someone's political actions – even feeling they are unethical – is one thing, accusing them of corruption is another.
The only politician for whom we have fairly open evidence of this is Winston Peters – substantial donations from the fishing industry followed by canning cameras on fishing boats; substantial donations from the racing industry followed by 'pretty horses' tax breaks.
I'm perfectly willing to be swayed by evidence – but you've yet to provide any.
So, apart from the sale of his house – IIRC at a time when most houses were selling in that area for well above CV – and after he exited from Government – it's all stuff that you disapprove of, rather than actual evidence that he benefitted personally from government policies.
Rumour and innuendo.
Given the keen interest in him, if there were anything to find, I'd think it would have been found, and well aired in the media, by now.
I don't deny that elements benefitted from the policies of his government (just as elements have benefitted from the policies of this government). I agree that you can make a case that some of the decisions his government made were …. less than optimal [I don't think that the Panama Papers incident casts a favourable light on Key]
But there is (apparently) no evidence that he was personally corrupt – and personally benefitted through government asset sales – which is what Patricia was alleging: "enrich himself and others through asset sales."
But you still haven't established that there was any personal benefit to Key. Let alone any personal benefit from asset sales – which was Patricia's initial contention.
By all means, dislike his policies and the effects that you see on NZ society and economy from them – but accusing him of personal corruption (without evidence) seems to me to be a step too far.
Yes. And what's the betting that more than 75% of voters would happily entrench any law banning bottled water exports?
Too hard with all the different FT agreements?
How would NZ be punished?
Which of the usual earnest performers would trumpet specious excuses about Threats to Business?
The PM has not helped move forward the Radio NZ/TVNZ merger by suggesting that RNZ might not survive if it did not go ahead. RNZ only needs continued government funding to do that and to suggest an inability to continue to afford such a limited radio network outside of a merger inspires little confidence as to more major problems facing New Zealand.
It seems the current strategy is to infer the merger is both a way to save money and yet also provide the basis for some enhanced effort at maintaining some cultural identity infrastructure.
Nor has it been helped by Willie Jackson in an utterly chaotic interview – where he was completely unable to articulate the benefits, and appeared to threaten editorial independence.
I know Jackson shoots from the lip – but it really doesn't help Ardern, when she has to step in to downplay concerns caused by poor communication (poor, at best) from one of her ministers
Jackson was trying to say that a further fall back in TVNZ standards (as a public broadcaster) might see Jack Tame unleased into the reality TV world, rather than on politicians. It would have helped if there was some indication as to how the planned merger would prevent that.
I am interested in thoughts around the real danger of applying an entrenchment clause for legislation intended to protect core resources or infrastructure. Based on historical evidence it appears to me that the current 51% needed to pass legislation is not a strong enough mandate in many situations: https://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2022/12/is-3-waters-entrenchment-really-stupid.html
No…my reasoning will be the same but I shall read it now.
I have read it and my opinion is only strengthened…the foolish notion that entrenchment will only ever be used for beneficial acts is delusional…especially when considering unintended consequences….nobody has a working crystal ball
Im happy (and demanding of) with a 50 % plus 1 acceptance of legislation in our Parliament…that allows future voters the reasonable opportunity to fix previous fuck ups
If the majority desire it we have agreed that is how we wish to run things.
I think that the requirement for 75% agreement for major change would have the effect of stifling all change. How realistic is it that any Government will muster that number to agree on anything – apart from the most anodyne legislation?
Even the current Labour government – with an unprecedented-in-MMP-times majority, and supported by the Green party – can only muster 60%. I would be very surprised to see any future government mustering anything like 60% of the House.
How far do you think they'd get with any of their major legislative changes (centralizing the Health Boards, 3 Waters, TVNZ/RNZ merger – to just name 3) – if they had to negotiate with National over the legislation? All of those 3 could certainly be argued to be 'major' changes.
Those who don't want to respond are heavily in the camp of don't let's change what has gone before ie so entrenchment has traditionally been used for constitutional matters, oh heavens don't change a thing'
rather than saying/pondering
Accepting its traditional use is there a case to have it cover other public/common goods such as access to fresh water, disposal of human waste?
At least asking and answering the question. Democracy is great but it relies on people. Sick or dead people from polluted water etc doesn't seem such a good future for democracy. People who cannot afford to access water because of costs imposed by a possibly privatised water supply do not have democracy at the top of their minds, survival is more likely.
Why is the question at least not asked, explored etc? What is the danger of that?
You're arguing around in circles. Entrenching public ownership isn't going to guarantee access to affordable water supply, or that people won't get sick or die from polluted water. Whether or not water should be in public or private hands is a policy decision that elected governments should be able to make on the basis of their assessment of the best interests of the country. Just like 3Waters, merging RNZ and TVNZ and any other major policy decision.
Series of huge, violent slams from the malevolently sadistic social housing neighbour on the other side of my 91 & 92 yo parents dividing-wall over a 2 hour period this afternoon & early evening. They’ve been forced to endure 5 years of this Nightmare.
And kept awake until 3am on Saturday night / Sunday morning with same violent, intimidatory behaviour + stereo at full volume with aggressive MoFo lyrics.
Thanks to the current Govt for their No Eviction policy … your core supporters really appreciate being thrown to the wolves … while you & your highly privileged Woke cadre devise ways to romanticise the wolves & reframe them as victims in order to enhance your in-group social prestige.
Cheers for the sadism towards very elderly people who've spent their lives self-sacrificing for others (incl election day activism for Labour over an almost 40 year period), cheers for the ruthless self-interest & rank cowardice, cheers for treating some of the most socially-minded, caring people like animals to be viciously used & abused.
You’re slowly but surely killing them through extreme stress & sleep deprivation.
My ancient smart phone (born 2012) proved absolutely useless … couldn't even remotely deal with the mongrel's violent slamming into the dividing wall / driving heavy objects with full force into both the floor & walls / highly aggressive haka-like stomping … too many decibels … just couldn't handle it.
To give you an idea of the level of noise (& the sheer degree of aggression & violence that went into it), I'll point to two aspects.
(1) My parents' long-standing neighbours across the road (who have given massive support, frequently rung the police & given testimonials about his behaviour at meetings with KO) live about 20 metres from the mongrel neighbour's unit … & in response to his extreme noise late at night & throughout the early hours they had their bedroom windows double-glazed last year. And yet, despite that, this violent anti-social's full-scale slamming inside through the early hours is so extreme that the neighbours across the road are frequently woken at 2, 3, 4am. So just imagine what it's like for my 91 / 92 yo parents just metres away from the sadistic prick on the other side of the (non-soundproof) dividing wall. And they have to live with all the swearing & threats through the wall as well.
(2) Late last year, my parents rang me around 2:30am during yet another major explosion of violent intimidation from this fuckhead (I was on chemo, of course), I arrived 25 mins later, parked my car in their driveway (at the other end of their house from the neighbouring unit) & before I even got out of the car I could hear what sounded like my parents house being demolished from the inside. Fucking HUGE violent constant slams. Like builders demolishing an old inner-city building from the inside.
Then I paid around $180 for an audio recorder with small external microphones that was advertised as being good … had high hopes that I'd finally be able to get the sheer magnitude of the prick's violence on to social media … because people will be absolutely bloody shocked if they heard it. It's one thing writing about it, but if people heard that visceral violence inflicted on very elderly people, I think it would develop into a real scandal.
But although the audio recorder was adequate for getting his aggressive rants outside their house throughout the early hours … swearing at the top of his voice & threatening violence … it was just as useless as the phone when it came to the violent explosions inside … rendered each huge slam etc as a kind of slow-motion hollow noise. Again, not sophisticated enough to deal with the decibels. So a waste of time & money in that regard.
But I do have a number of his early morning violent/threatening rants outside their house recorded. Here's just a little bit of a transcript of his rant from a couple of months ago that took place between 1:30-3am. It was aimed largely at me on this occasion … I arrived in the late evening to stay a night with them & he obviously noticed my car when he turned up after 1am … straight outside my parents' house, shouting lot's of threats of violence & wanting to fight me (haven't spoken to him since intitially confronting him in late 2018 after he started focussing his violence on my parents) … verbatim segement of transcript from around 2:30am:
"What the fuck !!! … what the fuck !!! …Come over here and I will smash metal right through your fucking head, cunt !!! … shut the fuck up !!! … I will fucking smash you cunt !!!"
On top of these recordings, I also have diary-like entries (pen on paper) for all of his violence, intimidation & the severe sleep deprivation forced on my parents … there's been so much of this behaviour that it runs to a very large number of pages … dates, times, full details (from my parents, from the neighbours & from my own witnessing of events), when the police or noise control have had to be called and so on. So there's a very rich source of info on his behaviour.
Thanks for all your support, Anker … genuinely appreciate it.
Yeah, I've definitely considered it & did make an approach (albeit a fairly tentative one) that ultimately proved unsuccessful.
But I did have a productive on-going email conversation through Dec 2021 to Feb 2022 with a prominent senior lawyer who is looking at taking a class action against KO.
She's an absolute god-send to all the powerless victims of this on-going Scandal (essentially, scapegoats of the affluent virtue-signaling, self-interested Pakeha Woke Grandees & the bitter & twisted Poto Williams of this world … see how they care about the most violent, sadistic out-of-control members of the underclass from their safe middle-class enclaves many miles from the mayhem they've directly enabled … does that not demonstrate beyond doubt their "uniquely-refined moral sensibilities" for all the common soldiery to see ?).
Lawyer was shocked by the detailed overview I gave her – felt it was absolutely horrific, which it is – & encouraged me to consider speaking about the situation (anonymously) to either RNZ or Newstalk ZB as a way of publicising it & hopefully forcing some sort of resolution.
Was very tempted but, as I pointed out, I was on full chemo at the time (both infusion & tablets) and hence regularly experiencing "Chemo Fog" (which is a bit like trying to think when you've been deprived of sleep for 48 hours … a pretty common side-effect) … some rounds of chemo, I experienced little if any chemo fog but others I experienced a lot … and there was no telling when it was going to happen from one day to the next … no clear pattern … no way of predicting. So it would've been a disaster if I was scheduled to speak (possibly live ?) on radio on a particular day & time and happened to have that excessive mental tiredness on that day.
Given the circs, I felt going to the print media would've been better … providing a detailed overview (full dates, times, detail of all of his major explosions … although so much day-after-day violent & anti-social behaviour, so much severe sleep deprivation & stress for them over the last 5 years that it would've been difficult to encapsulate it in a very concise way … would’ve had to go for a very broad overview with just a handful of illustrative examples to keep it readable & concise).
But The Herald is probably the only realistic option … Stuff (& thus the local Dom Post) are so hopelessly, dogmatically Woke that I have doubts they'd even give a shite … would be at total odds with their core CRT narrative (reinforced by the ideological demands & profound editorial shaping of the Govt's public interest journalism fund).
After a Herald journo wrote of yet another KO neighbourhood scandal earlier this year, I did email him & link to my outline of my parent's situation on my blog … but unfortunately didn't hear back … he'd obviously moved on to other things.
So, real feeling of powerlessness.
But then again, as our resident Moral Exemplar – our very own Nelson Mandela / MLK impersonator – the admirably dogmatic Greenie activist Muttonbird – opined from his safe middle class redoubt at the foot of Mt Wellington …
You parents (sic) do have a house, pal. Surely that is something to be grateful for.
I should, incidentally, at this point publicly acknowledge & massively thank both Tom Hunter at Yes Minister & David Farrar at Kiwiblog.
Both gentlemen published blog posts on my parents' situation. And I greatly appreciate it.
Tom was the first to publish & provided great moral support & mentioned their situation in a series of comments on a number of blogs.
David Farrar didn't have to publish anything … there were plenty of Kainga Ora scandal stories breaking during that period … and given that just a few years earlier I'd published a post (read by almost 12k) that quite sarcastically criticised his (highly influential) polling analysis in the wake of the 2017 General Election … he could've quite happily ignored my parents' situation & still had plenty of ammunition against the Govt's social housing policy.
But he did post on it & thus made it far more widely known (in the process, significantly enlarging the readership of my own blog post on my parents' nightmare to well over 4k … it’s a big moral boost when you know there are thousands of people who know the details of what this fucker has done).
So I greatly appreciate both men's support & integrity, regardless of whether or not it upsets a few echo-chamber partisans here.
Yes it takes a lot of effort persisting with the media and even more with legal action. It must have felt almost impossible to comtemplate when you were going through chemo. An worry that you and your parents should not be dealing with particularly when you were unwell.
Our "caring" govt will be doing all it can to try and mop up any problematic stories in election year that don't fit the narrative of kindness. So it may be something that will have more impact in election year.
You may not be in the space to comtemplate any sort of action on your parents behalf right now. I did a quick search and found the following Stuff journalists had written on anti social tenants in Kainga Ora houses.
Amy Ridout 19/03/22
Lucy Xia 19/01/21
Jonathan Killick 25/06/22
I agree that Stuff are so hopelessly woke though. They are the pr machine for Woke ideology trying to impart right think to the masses.
RNZ – Raysa Almelda wrote on this. As did Bruce Edwards on The Democracy Project.
I think Sean Plunkett would be very interested in your story (or even Michael Laws who is on the Platform). However The Platform is dismissed and discredited by the left, so it may not have the desired effect politically.
Let me know if this is helpful and I will continue to search. I appreciate it may not be the right time for you.
I do remember now about the legal action. Is that still on-going?
I am very fortunate to live in a quiet neighbourhood and one of the things that I think would very seriously effect my quality of life would be an anti social neighbour moving in. That would be my worst nightmare. Having relative peace and quiet in your own home is just basic to good health and sanity.
That was also one of the reasons I had very little sympathy for the Wellington elite (not the people who lived in appartments across from parliament) when the protestors were there. Of course the bureacrats and politicians could retreat to their peaceful living situations and even work from home to avoid the "river of filth". It seemed yet more rank hypocracy from the PMC, who don't give a dam about Rotorua and all the other anti social tenants ruining peoples lives.
Keep posting with your descriptions of the PMC and the woke elites. I think some on this may not geniunely understand the threat that they present to the well being of our country, but a few of us do. I admire your ability with words.
Cheers now
Muttonbirds comments were seriously off. I would give him less than a day to put up with what your parents are going through and he would be squealing at the top of his lungs.
it sounds like gentrification by stealth. Put in unsuitable tenants in an area, let them wreck havoc until the good law abiding citizen give up and some government connected PPP developer comes along to buy up pennies to the dollars the houses from the people who have been terrorized by the state tenants.
I am sure that other people in the same cirucmstances have been told to' just sell and move'?
An Auckland homeowner who says she was advised to sell up and move out to get away from unruly Kāinga Ora neighbours has taken a complaint to the Ombudsman.
Swordfish, I don't know what sort of support you have around you. I would be happy to help e.g letters to MPs, protest outside kainga Ora or donation of money for recording equipment or legal action.
I am not sure what of these options could work, but others on the site seem to have some good ideas.
Its an absolute outrage. My peace and quiet in my home is really important to me and it is hard for me to imagine how your parents have coped with this. Of course they shouldn't never have had to. Once this a…hole showed his true colours, very early on, that should have been it! Out. Gone. It is likely Kainga Ora knew before they placed him there there would be problems. B…tards. And then those PMC types banged on about the Parliamentary protest and how awlful it was for them having these people at their workplace.
Just disgraceful that this atrocious behaviour by your parents neighbours wasn't stopped (via eviction) from the get go. No one should have to put up with this.
The guy is an ar….hole and so are the people who administer his tennancy and those above them who are likely very, very busy attending meetings and diversity and inclusion workshops and not worrying too much about the cost of living crisis because they are abundantly paid for this disgrace.
I am wondering if there could be a case for seeking injunctive relief, as a shot across the bows. The mere action of doing this may force some action. What I was thinking was whether there are public interest lawyers who would be able to draft something up pro bono. This could be served/lodged as a way to initiate action.
If there are costs I am sure that some of us would happily make a contribution according to our means. I would.
Other things, you've probably done these things
a) asking local MP to intervene, ask questions of the minister
There was an update on the definition of anti-social behaviour in 2021. (Previously, it seemed a direct threat to someone or their family had to be made – and captured on tape/video).
What will be considered anti-social behaviour?
Note: This is a new change to the law and this guidance is provided in good faith. It will be regularly reviewed and may be revised as future Tenancy Tribunal decisions provide greater clarity.
General examples of behaviour that may be considered anti-social, depending on the situation, include:
› loud, aggressive behaviour by tenants towards the neighbours or to each other if it reasonably causes alarm or distress to others
› parking across a shared driveway repeatedly, especially if someone is not readily available to move the vehicle
› leaving rubbish in shared areas/footpaths – the longer that it is not removed and the more dangerous or smelly the rubbish is, the more likely this will be viewed as anti-social behaviour that is more
than minor
› noise control callouts where a problem has been found
› any intimidating behaviour, including ‘hate speech’ expressing hate or behaviour that encourages violence towards someone based on race, religion or sexual orientation
› invasion of privacy by, for example, peeping or peering into someone’s home, including via CCTV, or loitering on someone else’s property
› graffiti or other damage to a neighbour’s property or public property.
Do your parents have any other options for accommodation at this time? (I know this is not a solution, just thinking they might need respite from the horrendous situation).
It does raise the issue of landlord responsibility – generally those over 65 and families should expect a certain level of safety in their housing arrangements.
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This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
Bob Edlin writes – The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
The New Zealand public voted for a change in direction at the 2023 general election and that is exactly what this coalition government has been delivering in its first 100 days. There was an immediate focus on the economy, easing the cost of living, cracking down on law and order ...
The Government has left the health system as an afterthought, announcing half-baked targets at the last minute of their 100-day plan, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
Kiwis are still waiting for their promised cost of living support after 100 days of a National Government that is taking us backwards, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
100 days of National taking NZ backwardsThe National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
The Government must commit to funding free and healthy school lunches, as thousands of people sign the petition to keep them, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti says. ...
If the Government was serious about moving families into public housing, they would build more houses so there is actually somewhere for people to go. ...
The free and healthy school lunches programme feeds our kids, helps them to learn, and saves families money – but it is at risk under this Government, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
The Government’s proposed changes to Firearms Prohibition Orders (FPO) add almost nothing new and are merely an attempt to distract from its plans to loosen gun laws, police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and justice spokesperson Dr Duncan Webb said. ...
The great Victorian era English politician Lord Macauley stood in the British House of Parliament and said, "The gallery in which the reporters sit has become a fourth estate of the realm".He understood and outlined even way back then, the significant role and influence media have in a democracy. ...
"The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April. ...
Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand. Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships. “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland Acknowledgements and opening Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says. “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024 Acknowledgements and opening Morena, Nga Mihi Nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country. “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week. “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee. “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today. “The Amendment Paper represents ...
Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level. “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024. “Lower fruit and vege ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction. Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness. It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology. It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says he is looking forward to the day when three key water projects in Northland are up and running, unlocking the full potential of land in the region. Mr Jones attended a community event at the site of the Otawere reservoir near Kerikeri on Friday. ...
Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government has agreed to restore deductibility for mortgage interest on residential investment properties. “Help is on the way for landlords and renters alike. The Government’s restoration of interest deductibility will ease pressure on rents and simplify the tax code,” says ...
Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop will travel to Switzerland today to attend an Executive Committee meeting and Symposium of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Mr Bishop will then travel on to London where he will attend a series of meetings in his capacity as Infrastructure Minister. “New Zealanders believe ...
Pacific Media Watch Earthwise hosts Lois and Martin Griffiths. Earthwise presenters Lois and Martin Griffiths on Plains FM 96.9 community radio talk to Dr David Robie, a New Zealand author, independent journalist and media educator with a passion for the Asia-Pacific region. David talks about the struggle to raise awareness ...
Pacific Media Watch Ismail al-Ghoul, an Al Jazeera Arabic correspondent who was held for 12 hours at Gaza’s al-Shifa hospital, says Israeli forces rounded up Palestinian journalists at the facility and made them kneel on the ground for hours, while naked and blindfolded. “The occupation forces handcuffed and blindfolded us ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Wood, Program Director, Energy, Grattan Institute chinasong, Shutterstock Electricity customers in four Australian states can breathe a sigh of relief. After two years in a row of 20% price increases, power prices have finally stabilised. In many places they’re ...
Chumbawamba have reportedly issued the deputy PM a cease-and-desist notice after he used their song 'Tubthumping' before his state of the nation speech. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Deborah Lupton, SHARP Professor, Vitalities Lab, Centre for Social Research in Health and Social Policy Centre, and the ARC Centre of Excellence for Automated Decision-Making and Society, UNSW Sydney kitzcorner/Shutterstock The assertion from Queensland’s chief health officer John Gerrard that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Shutterstock Why are musicians so keen to get played on the radio? It can’t be because of the money. In Australia they are paid at rates so low they ...
"Farmers make a point not to tell our urban cousins how to live, yet Chlöe from central Auckland is hell-bent on having her say about farmers," says ACT Rural Communities spokesman Mark Cameron. “On her first day in the House as Green ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Curran, Associate Professor of Ecology, Lincoln University, New Zealand Getty Images/Gerald Corsi In the latest move to reform environmental laws in New Zealand, the coalition government has introduced a bill to fast-track consenting processes for projects deemed to ...
Uber has argued it does not have as much control over drivers as the unions suggest, and wants a judgment ruling that drivers are employees and not contractors set aside and sent back to the Employment Court. The 2022 ruling followed a three-week hearing in which four drivers sought to ...
What can and can’t be purchased by disabled people or their carers has been slashed in an effort by the Ministry of Disabled People Whaikaha to save money. The purchasing guidelines, a set of rules that sets out what can be purchased using the various streams of Government disability funding, ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Tod Wright and Hien Nguyen, Fiscal incidence in New Zealand: The effects of taxes and benefits on household incomes in tax year 2018/19 . Analyses of the distributional impact of taxation and government ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Cory Davis, Boston Hart and Benjamin Stubbing, Household cost-of-living impacts from the Emissions Trading Scheme and using transfers to mitigate regressive outcomes . This Analytical Note ...
A coalition of public transport and climate organisations, united as ‘Transport for All’, is actively opposing the government’s transport proposals. The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) includes plans for higher fares for public transport, ...
Greater Wellington is inviting feedback on proposed changes to its Revenue and Financing Policy. The Revenue and Financing Policy covers the Council’s various sources of funding, and how the cost of services is shared across the region. This includes ...
Labour has conceded it could have done more to deal with disruptive state housing tenants while in government but says the current coalition is going too far. ...
The band has asked their record label to issue a cease and desist to stop the NZ First leader using their 1997 hit to support his ‘misguided political views’. “I get knocked down, but I get up again,” blared through the speakers on Sunday as Winston Peters took the stage ...
By Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist Food rationing is underway in remote areas in Papua New Guinea’s Highlands following torrential rain and flash flooding. More than 20 people have been reported dead in Chimbu Province. In nearby Enga Province, the centre of last month’s massacre, a 15-year-old boy has been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Hughes, Lecturer, Research School of Management, Australian National University After months of debate and intrigue, the AFL’s 19th and newest team, the Tasmania Devils, finally launched its jumper, logo and colours in Devonport this week. The Devils will wear green, ...
Brannavan Gnanalingam reviews the debut novel by Saraid de Silva.One of the most baffling things for children who move to a new country is what their parents’ (or grandparents’) lives were like prior to moving – for kids in particular, they’re too busy trying to fit in in their ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Gaunson, Associate Professor in Cinema Studies, RMIT University Narelle Portanier/Binge “If you don’t know who your mob are, you don’t know who you are,” Detective Andrea “Andie” Whitford (played by Leah Purcell) is told early into the new crime ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elise Klein, Associate professor, Australian National University It’s commonly accepted that women do the vast majority of caregiving in Australian society. But less appreciated is that Indigenous women do larger amounts of unpaid care than any other group. Working with the Aboriginal ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne Joe Biden and Donald Trump have both secured their parties’ nominations for the November 5 United States general election by winning a ...
Comment: There has been a striking contrast in trans-Tasman interest about Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi’s visit to New Zealand and Australia. While the Australian press has been full of articles about the visit – including his curious decision to meet with former prime minister and China booster Paul Keating ...
After years of pressuring banks and other institutions to stop investing in fossil fuels, climate campaigners are making some progress. So how does divestment work?For years, climate activists have been pushing banks and other big institutions to divest from fossil fuels. New research from climate advocacy group 350 Aotearoa ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. The three young Polynesians are part of a K-pop fan community in Tāmaki Makaurau. It’s one of many that have sprung up worldwide as K-pop has gone ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. This one-off documentary presents three intimate portraits of young Polynesians who are pulled into a Korean cultural phenomenon. K-POLYS is directed by Litia Tuiburelevu, Produced by Hex ...
There’s ample evidence demonstrating free school lunch programmes provide wide benefits across schools, households and communities according to public health researchers. ACT Minister David Seymour wants to reduce the spending on Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
By Wata Shaw in Suva Fiji is facing an exodus of Fijians as many are leaving for overseas seeking employment and education and others are migrating, says Opposition MP Viliame Naupoto. Speaking in Parliament, he said: “His Excellency’s speech (Ratu Wiliame Katonivere) comes after a little over one year of ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming comments from Christopher Luxon this morning recommitting to ‘no new taxes’ as part of Budget 2024. “Mr Luxon’s refusal at the Post-Cabinet press conference yesterday to repeat the ‘no new taxes’ promise ...
SAFE is urgently calling on the Environment Committee to reject the Government’s Fast-Track Approvals Bill, and is urging New Zealanders to rally behind the call. The proposed Bill, currently under consideration with the Environment select committee, ...
Teammates who spend all their time picking fights with spectators are only helpful for the other team, writes Madeleine Chapman. Anyone who has ever played a team sport competitively, particularly as a child and particularly, for some reason, basketball, will know that there’s a lot of politics involved. While there ...
The long-running Wellington music festival is too focused on the Jim Beam-ness and not enough on the Homegrown-ness.There is something about Homegrown that’s difficult to place. A barely perceptible-ness. Like feeling a ghost is watching you from the corner of the room but when you look, there’s nothing there. ...
The latest Ipsos New Zealand Issues Monitor reveals that fewer New Zealanders believe crime / law and order is one of the top issues facing our country. In 2018, Ipsos New Zealand started tracking the key issues facing New Zealand. In this wave ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Griffiths, Deputy Program Director, Budgets and Government, Grattan Institute Australia’s political donations rules are woefully inadequate, but donations reform is finally on the agenda. The federal government has signalled its interest in reform and will soon begin briefing MPs on its ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Patrick Taylor, Chief Environmental Scientist, EPA Victoria; Honorary Professor, School of Natural Sciences, Macquarie University Naiyana Somchitkaeo/Shutterstock A recent study published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine has linked microplastics with risk to human health. The study ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Albert Van Dijk, Professor, Water and Landscape Dynamics, Fenner School of Environment & Society, Australian National University Global climate records were shattered in 2023, from air and sea temperatures to sea-level rise and sea-ice extent. Scores of countries recorded their hottest year ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a teacher explains why he and his partner are in frugal mode – and how they’re making it work. Gender: Male Age: 35Ethnicity: Pākehā Role: I am an intermediate school teacher and my partner is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Bendall, Senior Lecturer, Institute for Humanities and Social Sciences, Australian Catholic University Binge Mary & George, the new British television drama series, depicts the real-life story of Mary Villiers and her son George, and their social climbing at the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jason Nassios, Associate Professor, Centre of Policy Studies, Victoria University This article is part of The Conversation’s series examining the housing crisis. Read the other articles in the series here. Australian state and federal governments spend money in many ways to ...
The finance minister is denying that there’s a $5.6b shortfall in paying for the government’s campaign promises, including tax cuts. At his post-cabinet press conference yesterday, the PM refused to rule out new taxes to pay for the cuts, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s ...
Kāinga Ora tenants abused by their neighbours are doubting the government's crackdown on disruptive tenants will make a difference on their behaviour. ...
Kāinga Ora is New Zealand’s biggest residential landlord, housing more than 180,000 vulnerable people in more than 67,000 properties. Yesterday the government announced a crackdown on its tenants who fall behind on rent. One longtime Kāinga Ora tenant shares her experience.For 18 years I lived in a 1960s standalone ...
Why does this myth persist, and what’s the real reason our skin is suffering?It’s one of the biggest international grievances New Zealanders hold, up there with the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior and 1981’s underarm incident. We’re quick to tell international travellers that the world’s pollution led to the ...
Opinion: In a move that has shocked road safety advocates across the country, the new Minister of Transport, Simeon Brown, is poised to abandon the previous government’s speed limit reduction policy, particularly around schools. Even more alarmingly, he wants school speed limits to be variable rather than full-time, arguing ...
Auckland Council is opposing a fast-track development backed by Sir John Kirwan and Spark NZ, because it doesn’t meet stringent new climate adaptation requirements The post Surf-data centre faces new 3.8C climate warming rules appeared first on Newsroom. ...
When the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act was introduced in 2009 it was firmly targeted at gangs and drugs. The legislation means police no longer need a conviction to seize assets that criminals can’t prove were paid for legitimately, as long as their alleged offences are punishable by more than a ...
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Bob’s relationship with certain members of Lincoln’s academic staff continued to deteriorate in the 1990s. Others supported him publicly, though articles such as Roland Clark’s 1993 piece in Growing Today cannot have pleased the university management. Clark wrote that Bob was selling onions from the Biological Husbandry Unit to a ...
SailGP’s races feature in-your-face action, with agile, hydro-foiling catamarans tacking and jibing for the title over several days. However, public comments ahead of the global series’ return to New Zealand have left this past year’s controversy in the shadows, as a key appointment attracts criticism from dolphin advocates. A year ...
Opinion: We are fast approaching a fundamental change in prisons. As the number of people on custodial remand looks set to overtake the number of sentenced prisoners, the main function of prisons in New Zealand may become incarcerating un-sentenced people who may not be guilty of offending. We have already ...
A huge seven months lies in store for the White Ferns, beginning this week with the visit of England and culminating with the T20 World Cup in Bangladesh in September and October. Starting on Tuesday in Dunedin, the world ranked No. 2 visitors will play five T20s and three ODIs, ...
The letters, which were published last week, were addressed to Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P) Chairperson Megawati Sukarnoputri, National Democrat Party (NasDem) Chairperson Surya Paloh, National Awakening Party (PKB) Chairperson Muhaimin Iskandar, Justice and Prosperity Party (PKS) President Ahmad Syaikhu and United Development Party (PPP) Chairperson Muhammad Mardiono. In ...
Evicting more people from state housing is ignorant to the consequences of poverty, the Greens say, but the Housing Minister says it's a privilege that can be taken away if abused. ...
Evicting more people from state housing is ignorant to the consequences of poverty, the Greens say, but the Housing Minister says it's a privilege that can be taken away if abused. ...
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Great news for Cystic Fibrosis New Zealanders. Pharmac proposal to fund and make this wonder drug available from 1 April next year. Thankyou!!!
+100
Decades for a breakthrough to come.
Excellent news. Will. make a real difference to these peoples lives
How is your cough Anker?
Very kind of you to ask Patricia. Just been started on some anti biotics as Dr thinks I have a secondary infection. I am hoping this will do the trick.
And thanks to Anne's kind comments on another post. I couldn't respond, because there didn't seem to be a reply button. What you said Anne was very much appreciated.
There is a need for more of this.
One of the few ways we can reduce pressure on the lack of health sector capability is to improve the well-being of New Zealanders.
Every drug intervention that reduces demand on limited health (staff/equipment) resources is useful.
For years we skimped on such drug availability because of the cost to Pharmac while transferring the consequences to a health service that could not cope (and at far greater cost and worse health outcomes/loss of work capability). Madness.
And I should add some form of dental insurance would also reduce impact on the health system (lack of care has consequences for physiology).
CF is neither preventable not curable and affects a relatively small number of New Zealanders. Unless Pharmac resources (funding) is increased such watershed moments will be far between.
Ardern walking 3 Waters entrenchment without a legislative alternative is sick.
Just really poor policymaking let alone parliamentary procedure.
We used to have a party that built up strong public ownership.
If we're prepared to buy back Kiwibank we should centrally own water.
The only word in your comment I disagree with is “centrally” but yes, 100% agree. The question is how best one achieves keeping something so precious in public ownership for future generations. Many people seem to think that once you manage something you practically own it too. It becomes even more confusing when you throw in terms and concepts such as stewardship, governance, guardianship, and trustees (not necessarily only in the legal sense). The legal boffins who were very quick to judge the entrenchment shambles quickly run out of words and tools to suggest an alternative.
This is pretty dam silly IMO – I believe entrenching Public ownership of water would be a big vote winner those arguing against it would be open to being accused they want to sell it – An enormous vote loser IMO
Got no issue with yr point, the entrenchment bit is where the brown stuff can hit the cooling device.
With that precedent, what stops the tories from entrenching retirement at 67?
Every structural move this government has made is to recentralisation.
How Cabinet can get through 5 days without a legislative fix to announce is ridiculous.
Water is the only reform they've had to spend any real political capital on, and with 50 seats they've had plenty to spend.
Get A Fucking move on Labour.
Not exactly my words but definitely my sentiments.
Three Waters needs to get through before the House rises this year. Once it gets enacted, our (personal and parliamentary) long break follows and many things are forgotten or become less worrying after a break and time with friends and family.
Just tried to link to where I set out the sitting days until Christmas but search returns the word ‘nothing’
You are joking right?
Do you seriously think Act, National and NZ First will suddenly forget about this over the holiday period?
This issue will be hammered every day between now and the election
But it is hard getting traction with people over the break. Getting people all upset over the break does not work so that momentum is lost. Once the legislation is enacted any voices by the opposition become clanging symbols/empty vessels.
I did not say that he issue goes away but the ability to manufacture outrage is diminished by
I have no doubt that all those parties will fan/manufacture the fires of outrage but people lose interest.
Th election is more likely to be on issues such as the propensity of those parties to privatise anything that moves if they get to be in office. Their inability to support entrenchment against privatising to show that they will treat water as a public good may backfire.
I think you are dreaming if you think people will lose interest in 3 waters over the summer holidays.
Frankly, there is not much interest in the details of 3 Waters among the general public, from what I can tell.
Ask anyone, would they like clean drinking water and the answer is sure to be yes.
Ask them if they get their knickers in a twist about who owns the assets, and ten to one they'll shrug their shoulders.
The only ones who seem to be up in arms about 3 Waters are Act and National, for they see the assets as very saleable to their mates.
I agree with this.
It adds to my point that political parties trying to manufacture outrage over the break are on a 'hiding to nothing' as they say.
Yea, sure, you keep thinking that if it makes you feel comfortable.
I expect you will discover there is considerable interest when the bills arrive
Or when dirty or no water starts coming out of the taps.
Yes, I would imagine that would also invigorate interest
But a little too late to do much about it other than waiting for expensive repairs and/or other costly and often temporary ‘solutions’.
Assuming we have the wherewithal to make those improvements…especially when we deliberately make them more expensive than they need to be
Indeed, let’s stick with number 8 wire and black tape because that has served us so well i.e., if it ain’t broken yet keep your fingers crossed and your head in the sand for as long as possible. No need to borrow more and at much higher interest rates than currently.
Oh dear Incognito, you are getting desperate. No8 wire was not promoted (though it does have its uses)….ask yourself WHY we havnt provided the needed investment in our infrastructure these past decades?
We haven’t?? Where did my rates go to then? I’m sure it said that some of it went towards water servicing costs. When I’ll get home, I will check my latest rates invoice.
You and Robert should take a double act on the road
Water is a public good, AFAIK, and as such does not and should not be centralised/re-centralised, whatever you mean by that.
The Government is proposing to create 4 regional entities to manage the country’s current [three] water services; ownership remains with Councils and the likes; what the co-governance will look like is anybody’s guess at the moment. As such, there is no and should not be any talk of centralisation/re-centralisation in this context.
I completely and utterly agree with everything else you said.
Lew has suggested an alternative (not exactly what you are meaning, but one of the few to step up),
https://twitter.com/LewSOS/status/1599329697833549824
Way too late for discursive "fixes".
That's what you do before you have legislation that's gone through Select Committee and is gone through second reading. Then you put it up, get your MPs on radio and tv, etc.
What was needed today was a specific legislative text ready to go as a fresh SOP.
Agree Ad but it may (being optimistic) help in skewering opposition parties trying to nay say Three Waters and who clearly believe (by not supporting entrenchment clauses) in the ability to privatise.
But clear thoughts in readable articles over the break may help tamp down party driven public concern/educate the public.
not sure how you are using discursive there, but Lew's argument is that entrenchment shouldn't be used in this case, but protecting water from privatisation could be done via a GE/binding referendum. This is not dependent on three waters.
such as?
Lew is flat wrong. Parliament is sovereign in law making, particularly when you already have draft legislation before Parliament.
There is no way that throwing this mess out to "the people" would make anything clearer.
Lew has neither the Parliamentary procedure nor political nous that God gave geese.
The well is already poisoned. "The people" have had their perceptions irremediably tainted. The left need to take a lesson in how the right mount saturation propaganda campaigns through the organisations that naturally align with them.
you still no suggestion on what Labour could do instead.
Updating their CV's would be a good idea,if they double down for an additional 4%,problematic issues with multiple stories from the PM,and wilful misdirection on cause and effect.
https://twitter.com/winstonpeters/status/1599505680553373697
Winston is being as slippery as Teflon-John in a bucket of snot because Ardern didn’t use those exact words, did she? But hey, it’s SM (Twitter) and everybody knows what he means so it is pretty ok to twist the words a little to create one’s preferred narrative.
Well what words did she use?
What I saw and heard on the post cabinet press conference,was the PM and Hitchens saying they were unaware that the amended entrenchment was in until it had been passed.
Mahuta said it had been discussed at the labour caucus,can both arguments be correct?
It seems that Winston’s word is good enough for you and that you just lapped it up without fact-checking. Ardern never said those exact words, AFAIK, but what she did say is that the team takes one for the team and will fix it as a [united] team, i.e., without the scapegoating, finger-pointing, and public blaming & shaming that media and the opposition parties are so fond of – heads must roll – and Luxon is clearly like a bloodhound on that trail of irrelevancy. Perhaps that subtle difference is lost on you but surely not on that old fox Winston with his divisive tactics and rhetoric that suckered you in.
Perhaps you can find a recording with time stamp where Ardern used those exact words as asserted by Winston.
Anywho, this is not about what Mahuta said, but what Ardern said according to the Gospel of Peters, so please don’t divert.
PS who’s Hitchens? I thought he had died many years ago.
See links below,
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300756061/three-waters-booby-trap-goes-against-no-surprises-rule?dicbo=v2-363076daca4f8073dfed66b5ea9c805f
Are you confirming Winston’s tweeted Trumpian assertion? Or are you diverting away from that tweet that you posted before, like a tiny Trojan? It seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it.
You have failed to provide a time stamp but this most likely is because you cannot back up Winston’s claim.
I am not diverting from the tweet,the PM and the leader of the house stated they were unaware last monday ( that is a week ago see calenders they provide time lines eg a week = 7 days )
Peters is voicing what is widely reported,that they said they were unaware of the amendment.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130602209/the-constitutional-spat-over-a-lastminute-controversial-change-to-three-waters-bill?rm=a
Is “Peters is voicing” a euphemism for putting words into the PM’s mouth? If so, you seem quite ok with that. If not, where is his quote coming from, with time stamp, please?
You posted that Trumpian tweet, and you’ve been running away from it faster than Luxon flips burgers and does U-turns on statements.
No self-respecting TS commenter would willingly do the dirty work of and for Winston Peters.
Sorry do you not understand what has been reported from the press conference in the links provided,which include the segments from the PM.
Do you understand what aware is ? what would the statements mean
So Peters is suggesting that the PM was unaware (which the PM also stated as did the leader of the house)
I cannot see your argument for falsification,ill posed as it was, as any dictionary will show what unaware is.If you argument is different from my assumptions,( or the dictionary definitions) or the reported detail,maybe you should explain it more clearly,where there is an ambiguity.
And now you have changed it to “Peters is suggesting” 😀
No wonder you cannot provide a time stamp to support the fake quote by Peters that you spread all too happily.
We, or at least I, expect Peters’ rhetoric to be too unreliable to take at face value. It seems that your comments have reached the same standard of truthiness.
It was a live press conference,like the one this afternoon,where at 4.35 pm NZDST the PM mentioned the SOP in passing,and said we will not be focussing on an individual,the caucus has undertaken a collective responsibility (which includes retrenchment) similar to cabinet responsibilites.
The reporting of last weeks press conference has been shown in the available links across this thread of which you seem unaware of.
The alternative assumption that the PM was aware of what was being proposed in the SOP,seems to be what you are arguing for,which seems very strange,and a political landmine i would argue.
The argument is the PM was either aware of the reduced number in the SOP (for without reduction entrenchment was dead in the water) or unaware,without any other evidence I will take her and the leaders quoted answers,
Thank you but where is your link to the recording “like” the recording that I’ve been asking for since the cows left home?
And this was after the tweet by Peters! So, irrelevant.
I’m not aware of what the PM is or is not aware of.
However, I’m aware of Peter’s misleading tweet containing a fake quote that you wilfully linked to here on TS to spin a narrative of “wilful misdirection” on behalf of the PM.
The irony is that you have been obfuscating and diverting from your own contribution to and role in spreading Peter’s nefarious spin as if you are unaware of it: Peters this, Peters that, Peters whatever …
I think Peters will be mightily happy with your efforts here and I almost expect him to pop up here and like your comments.
The misdirection was saying that there was a probability of privatizing the water assets by the nat/act,when the only statements i have heard was a repeal of the legislation
Checks dictionary. Are you aware of the PM statements
So the PM was not aware of the reduced % of the entrenchment provisions and the leader of the house was not either (until after the event) as the SOP novel approach was introduced in real time.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130602209/the-constitutional-spat-over-a-lastminute-controversial-change-to-three-waters-bill?rm=a
https://www.facebook.com/jacindaardern/videos/live-post-cabinet-press-conference-28-november-2022/670087941446797/
Are you and Winston Peters aware of what the PM said and has not said? Peters seems happy enough to create his own narrative and you seem happy enough to spread it around as factual.
I’m sure you can correct this misdirection by a link with time stamp but you have not done so, which begs the questions what is stopping you and why are you spreading Peters’ BS assertions that belong on Twitter. (NB I love the blue check mark on Peters’ account, which shows it comes from the genuine spin-master)
Yes you are correct Incognito,Winston was using misdirection and I was mistaken,she must have known all along that the reduced % for retrenchment would be introduced by stealth (by means of an SPO) as it was discussed at caucus therefore full responsibility lies with the PM for unsignalled legislation under urgency,with all the constitutional problems it entailed.
BTW speaking of blue ticks,Apple just confirmed their advertising on twitter.
One of the problems with the dogmatic obsession of neoliberals on personal responsibility is the fixation on blaming, isolating, and punishing individuals for perceived misdemeanours and faux pas. Perhaps this is also the reason why neoliberals always stress [about] transparency and accountability, especially of civil servants, so that they can better aim & target individuals doing their job (and making mistakes).
Musk will be over the moon with Apple, if it is true what you say.
you're relying on Peters for your political information?
Actually I was using the PM and Hipkins when they stated that they were unaware of the novel use of an entrenchment provision.
It is also in the MSM,if you followed.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130660392/a-mistake-controversial-three-waters-entrenchment-clause-to-go
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300756061/three-waters-booby-trap-goes-against-no-surprises-rule?dicbo=v2-363076daca4f8073dfed66b5ea9c805f
it’s a big mess, and I’m not sure anyone knows what happened. Much of the discussion on SM and MSM has at times conflated the entrenchment itself with the %. I have stopped following because it’s crazy making. Let me know if you find a timeline though, that would be very useful.
No one should rely on Peters. But if you're looking for someone to encapsulate the zeitgeist – he's pretty much always bang on the money.
He's a past master of seeing a popular movement and nipping over to place himself at the head of it.
What he says – a heck of a lot of people are thinking…..
Ardern is coming across as evasive in her answers.
Lew is your classic very serious person, thinking he is a "moderate liberal" who is in fact almost entirely a neoliberal apologist. He demands elite debate be framed by norms of middle class politeness and dislikes the vulgar and disruptive nature of both the left and the right. Above all, he constantly gives the technocratic establishment the benefit of the doubt.
Labour needs to ask itself a simple political quesion – how many votes do pearl clutching centrists and legal academics command? Then once they’ve worked out they are onto a vote winner tell them all to fuck off, they are the government and they have decided to entrench the protection of water as a public asset. They can take their constitutional concerns over "fettering parliament" and shove it.
If they don't like it they can climb down from their ivory towers to join the opposition and campaign to repeal the entrenchment of public ownership of water.
Let's see how many votes telling the public they don't mind private corporations (even Maori ones!!!!) "fetterring parliament's ability to decide" once water has been privatised gets them.
The fundamental contradiction here is that:
There is some merit in having water assets owned by a hodge-podge of many local councils – it keeps control diffuse and difficult to sell. Sage's ill-fated entrenchment provision was an attempt to resolve this contradiction. Potentially a good idea, but constitutionally fatally flawed.
The compromise path left now is something like the Wellington Water model, when the regional organisation operates the asset and local councils still clearly own them. It is not ideal, but it is a way to square this particular circle.
The problem remains one where councils have debt ceilings and an inability to finance the required investment without significant rate increases.
Some (lack of ratepayers) councils cannot afford the upgrades at all and some urban councils have a lot of old infrastructure to upgrade all at once (and this is beyond debt ceiling capacity).
Each need government assistance – one the money, and the other bridging finance. There is also the issue of national planning as to scheduling because of capability constraints (skilled workers and interface with Treasury and RB as to economic activity levels).
And if that was not difficult enough, there is the issue of Maori water rights.
I agree. In other words a total mess of our own making; the past is holding the future hostage.
If you characterize the Centrist voters as "pearl clutching centriststs" – you've pretty definitively lost them. Bad news. Centrist voters decide elections.
Agree 100%
A labour party that was the voice of the people and wasn't filled with almost exclusively academics, neoliberal apologists and the over educated professional managerial class technocrats wouldn't back down to outraged academics and would realize that actually keeping water from being privatized is a vote winner and tell the ivory tower brigade to gtfo.
Unfortunately labours parliamentary wing is full to the brim with those same technocratic ivory tower voices , a labour party with more diversity of class would have come up with a far more populist and popular alternative to to protect water and water assets, three waters is the fever dream of the very academics and pmcs outraged by entrenchment because many of them probably want the water bundled up so it can be sold off in the first place.
Spot on Corey.
Access to polling probably hasn't helped in the courage department.
Whatever they do, e.g., binding or non-binding referendum, all paths lead through Parliament.
It may be a bit early to say that a strategic retreat is a mistake, take this to committee and whose the villain then? When National and Act don’t support Entrenchment then who is framed as wanting free reign to privatise water. This may well be the cleverest political move of the year.
Yes I thought so Adrian. It is "before the courts" so to speak. So many have decried it, I thought, perhaps I've misread.
It seems unlikely to be a clever political move (at least by Labour)- as both Ardern and Hipkins have come out saying that entrenchment was a "mistake" which will result in the bill being returned to committee to have the provision removed before it goes back to Parliament.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/480046/three-waters-government-announces-it-will-remove-entrenchment-clause-from-legislation
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/480101/ardern-on-government-s-u-turn-on-three-waters-entrenchment-we-are-taking-this-as-a-team
It may well be a clever political move by the Greens – who have placed their differences to Labour on this issue – front and centre with the electorate.
So Belladonna, do you think water should be a public good?
Patricia. Do you think that political parties should use entrenchment in areas other than constitutional ones (i.e. election law)?
The problem for Labour is that they've moved the debate from water reform to constitutional law – where they are on very shaky ground, indeed. Hence the rapid back-pedalling.
Pssst You didn't answer Patricia's question but countered with one of your own.
Here is the original question
Belladona will not answer.
We can assume the answer is no.
Yanno. Other people have a life – that doesn't involve being online 24/7.
See the answer above.
Oh, I'm happy to answer. It was just that the question had nothing to do with the actual substance of what was being discussed – Labour's backdown (and effectively admitting they were wrong) over the attempt to entrench something other than constitutional law.
No one has been discussing whether water should be a public good.
Typically, things which are regarded as 'public good' have no individual cost associated with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good_(economics)
That is not the case for water – I regularly pay water rates and usage charges for the privilege of having a clean and sanitary water supply (and since I live in Auckland, am getting a fairly good deal)
There are definitely associated benefits for part-payment for water usage (those areas which have this, have much lower overall usage of water per-household, than those areas for which it is rolled into the general rates).
If you are asking whether water-supply and infrastructure should be maintained in public ownership, yes, of course I think it should be. As does every political party in NZ. Talk about a straw man argument!
If you are asking if I agree with the establishment of a massive additional layer of bureaucracy, and removal of decision-making from the people who pay for it – then, no, I do not. I think water infrastructure should remain under the control of locally elected representatives.
One way of looking at this is that you are not so much paying for the water itself, but the provision and disposal of it in a safe and reliable manner.
Personally I think John Key had it right on this – that no-one owns water. Every single molecule migrates through vast, ceaseless hydrological cycles across the entire biosphere. It is no more realistic to allocate ownership title to water than it is to air.
The only reason why we even incorrectly think water might be ownable is that unlike air, it is transiently visible in locations like rivers, lakes and reservoirs.
The collection, delivery and disposal of safe reliable water is akin to someone filling a dive tank with compressed air – you are not buying title or ownership of the air, you are purchasing a specialised service that happens to deliver air in a clean compressed form.
The confusion arises when we a start to use pricing mechanisms to allocate scarce freshwater resources for agriculture or bottling. In this instance water is priced not in order to convey title, but to protect it from the tragedy of the commons and preserve it as a public good. A public good that is the concern of everyone – represented by the State.
Oh, I agree – that's why I specifically said paying for water supply.
Probably closer to the definition of a 'common good' than a 'public good'
As, certainly in times of drought, usage by one individual impacts on the ability of others to access water.
And, pricing impacts on usage. We've seen lots of evidence in NZ that areas which have water costs rolled into general rates – or even a separate water rate – have much higher individual usage, than those areas which meter water, and charge for water actually used by the household. IMHO – reducing water waste is a good outcome.
While I agree that no one 'owns' water – the management of the resource needs to be done at a 'commons' level. Where the Labour Party and I disagree is the governmental level at which that 'commons' should operate.
The majority of which is in the cost of capital to provide the facilities to provide it and especially to clean up before disposal. It is almost entirely overhead costs. Generally the direct production costs are all in handling the waste water. Which is why in Auckland the waste water processing charges are more than double the tap water charges.
One of the problems with agriculture as an industry is that they don’t handle waste water very well, and frequently they don’t handle it at all. It just flows away with extra phosphates, nitrates, eroded soil, sprays, etc in a true tragedy of the commons and becomes someone else pollution problem. Or it seeps into groundwater or aquifers.
Most (but not all) of the other industries and cities have had curbs on polluting for many decades. It isn’t perfect, but it is regulated and does a reasonable and improving job. Needs a lot more work. For instance the recent changes to the Waikato river plan – which look at best like they barely change the river health over the next 80 years. I’d expect that the river will keep worsening under its provisions.
What farmers proclaim as being “excessive regulation” is simply them being pulled to account for polluting land use.
Is untreated sewerage a public good? Because that is where the bulk of the capital investment required under 3 waters is going to go. It is also the vast majority of water treatment costs are incurred.
Should we close off your toilet and let its waste spread over your lawn? I’d expect that to be unpopular as well.
If you are asking whether water-supply and infrastructure should be maintained in public ownership, yes, of course I think it should be. As does every political party in NZ. Talk about a straw man argument!
FFS: Water infrastructure includes water supply. However it also includes treatment of sewage water and what it carries and the handling (and often treatment) of storm waters.
if you want to argue something then don’t pick the cheapest part of the whole water system (provision of palatable water) and promote that as being the only part of the system.
I had no intention of separating out water supply from waste water (and, indeed, my water bills/rates cover both) – that's why I said and infrastructure..
As I said in reply to RedLogix – I think water infrastructure is probably closer to the definition of a 'common good' than a 'public good'
It is a common good that has to be paid for. It isn't free infrastructure.
I don't really give a damn if it is paid for by taxes (3waters), rates (current), or users (current). That is all the same thing. The problem is that the level of payment into water infrastructure is completely inadequate in almost every region (apart from maybe Auckland and Christchurch). The skills to put it in and maintain it are scattered and diffuse. And over the whole of NZ it is going backwards at a rate of knots.
Common good is effectively what the 3 waters is about – paying for the infrastructure with taxpayers credit because it has been under-invested for decades. There is no freaking way that most councils are up to the task of doing it better.
So 'common good' is getting worse. What is your solution for doing it properly. Or are you just going to be just another mindless whinging critic who waves their hand in the air rather than doing the hard work of looking for viable solutions?
Depending on how far West you’re looking and what you’re looking for you may have come across properties with septic tanks. The more modern systems are quite advanced compared to the old gravity-based strain & drain systems in order to clean up the water before it goes onto your land.
Of course, the water standards are causing friction with
farmersother rural polluters too.There’s a good reason that Three Waters bundles these things together and is even considering the connection with and impact on coastal and geothermal waters too.
government assets should have a constitutionally entrenched 75% vote for sale of these assets.
I agree. Key would not have been able to enrich himself and others through asset sales. I see he is positioning himself for the next "Fire Sale." by taking a Directorship in an entity Act intend to sell off.
Evidence that Key enriched himself through asset sales?
If you have this, it would be a major scandal. IIRC, Key deliberately put his assets into a blind trust, so that he couldn't be accused of this kind of insider trading.
Good old Key, good old Watson, Fay & Richwhite etc. Top NZers with an eye to the main chance….oops too bad about the NZ assets. I wonder if they will still be around if NActs get in……perhaps they could work with The Treasury in an advisory capacity.
NB colossal & heavy sarc.
It wasn't completely blind, didn't Key blurt that he was going to make good on some investment? I forget the details. Media let him away with it, as usual.
His involvement in Mossack Fonseca and the Panama Papers scandal . The giving of Citizenship to Thiel by Nathan Guy (when he did not qualify.) The bottles of wine he gave to reporters.( from his "Blind Trust" winery. )The BBQs with some questionable characters. Sleaze really. He sold off a huge number of our assets and state houses. There is more…. but it won't sway you.
You, however, asserted that Key benefitted personally from this. I'm still waiting for the evidence….
Disliking someone's political actions – even feeling they are unethical – is one thing, accusing them of corruption is another.
The only politician for whom we have fairly open evidence of this is Winston Peters – substantial donations from the fishing industry followed by canning cameras on fishing boats; substantial donations from the racing industry followed by 'pretty horses' tax breaks.
I'm perfectly willing to be swayed by evidence – but you've yet to provide any.
Key's Parnell mansion was sold for around double its CV to mysterious foreign buyers.
He was part of an attack on the NZD that threatened a currency crisis.
His government manipulated the housing market to the benefit of shady interests.
And of course the Panama Papers stuff.
Plus, the rumours surrounding his decision to quit while in office.
So, apart from the sale of his house – IIRC at a time when most houses were selling in that area for well above CV – and after he exited from Government – it's all stuff that you disapprove of, rather than actual evidence that he benefitted personally from government policies.
Rumour and innuendo.
Given the keen interest in him, if there were anything to find, I'd think it would have been found, and well aired in the media, by now.
I don't deny that elements benefitted from the policies of his government (just as elements have benefitted from the policies of this government). I agree that you can make a case that some of the decisions his government made were …. less than optimal [I don't think that the Panama Papers incident casts a favourable light on Key]
But there is (apparently) no evidence that he was personally corrupt – and personally benefitted through government asset sales – which is what Patricia was alleging: "enrich himself and others through asset sales."
he just happened to benefit from all these convenient coincidences, but he is lily white
sorry, I don't buy it
cui bono
Indeed – look for the benefit.
But you still haven't established that there was any personal benefit to Key. Let alone any personal benefit from asset sales – which was Patricia's initial contention.
By all means, dislike his policies and the effects that you see on NZ society and economy from them – but accusing him of personal corruption (without evidence) seems to me to be a step too far.
That is the problem with white collar criminals.. they know how to use the system and cover their tracks.
Yes. And what's the betting that more than 75% of voters would happily entrench any law banning bottled water exports?
Too hard with all the different FT agreements?
How would NZ be punished?
Which of the usual earnest performers would trumpet specious excuses about Threats to Business?
Are we mice or lions?
I agree
government assets = public assets.
The PM has not helped move forward the Radio NZ/TVNZ merger by suggesting that RNZ might not survive if it did not go ahead. RNZ only needs continued government funding to do that and to suggest an inability to continue to afford such a limited radio network outside of a merger inspires little confidence as to more major problems facing New Zealand.
It seems the current strategy is to infer the merger is both a way to save money and yet also provide the basis for some enhanced effort at maintaining some cultural identity infrastructure.
Nor has it been helped by Willie Jackson in an utterly chaotic interview – where he was completely unable to articulate the benefits, and appeared to threaten editorial independence.
I know Jackson shoots from the lip – but it really doesn't help Ardern, when she has to step in to downplay concerns caused by poor communication (poor, at best) from one of her ministers
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130674385/pm-steps-in-after-concerns-raised-from-willie-jacksons-rnztvnz-merger-interview
Jackson was trying to say that a further fall back in TVNZ standards (as a public broadcaster) might see Jack Tame unleased into the reality TV world, rather than on politicians. It would have helped if there was some indication as to how the planned merger would prevent that.
Goodness knows what Jackson was trying to say. Absent a mind-reader, I think we will never know.
Has he been taking interview lessons from Winston Peters?
Well, I haven't seen any sign-boards yet….
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/peters-no-sign-fetches-10600/TLHTAQFCTPVELQNJAKI775GYWE/
RNZ news casts lately, sound more like party political broadcasts, on behalf of the National Party. day after day. imho.
All of NZ's mainstream media parrots the neoliberal mantra.
Many who run it, work there or contribute are right wing, so no surprise.
Meanwhile, Willie Jackson is lauding RNZ as the model that TVNZ needs to follow.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/damien-venuto-rnz-tvnz-merger-and-the-problem-with-willie-jacksons-comments/W52HZELSN3IWZJ5YBXJBFVBWFQ/
I am interested in thoughts around the real danger of applying an entrenchment clause for legislation intended to protect core resources or infrastructure. Based on historical evidence it appears to me that the current 51% needed to pass legislation is not a strong enough mandate in many situations: https://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2022/12/is-3-waters-entrenchment-really-stupid.html
If you support democracy then entrenchment should remain a constitutional tool…i.e. we require super majorities to protect the act of democracy.
It is dangerous to (and anti democratic) move super majorities into general legislation as it is an attempt to hobble future electorates.
Did you read my post that I linked to before responding?
No…my reasoning will be the same but I shall read it now.
I have read it and my opinion is only strengthened…the foolish notion that entrenchment will only ever be used for beneficial acts is delusional…especially when considering unintended consequences….nobody has a working crystal ball
So you are happy with a 51% mandate for decisions of major national interest that would be difficult to reverse?
Most of the organisations (unions etc) that I have been involved with would never consider 51% as a mandate for major change.
Why should we tolerate this for parliament?
Im happy (and demanding of) with a 50 % plus 1 acceptance of legislation in our Parliament…that allows future voters the reasonable opportunity to fix previous fuck ups
If the majority desire it we have agreed that is how we wish to run things.
Some "fuck ups" can be too hard to undo. How can another government easily reverse a sale of a state asset into overseas ownership?
You are aware of parliamentary sovereignty?
Parliament can renationalise assets within its borders should it deem it necessary/beneficial to do so.
I think that the requirement for 75% agreement for major change would have the effect of stifling all change. How realistic is it that any Government will muster that number to agree on anything – apart from the most anodyne legislation?
Even the current Labour government – with an unprecedented-in-MMP-times majority, and supported by the Green party – can only muster 60%. I would be very surprised to see any future government mustering anything like 60% of the House.
How far do you think they'd get with any of their major legislative changes (centralizing the Health Boards, 3 Waters, TVNZ/RNZ merger – to just name 3) – if they had to negotiate with National over the legislation? All of those 3 could certainly be argued to be 'major' changes.
Agree Pat
I thought I provided some sound arguments in my linked post, happy to respond to the substance.
You did David.
Those who don't want to respond are heavily in the camp of don't let's change what has gone before ie so entrenchment has traditionally been used for constitutional matters, oh heavens don't change a thing'
rather than saying/pondering
Accepting its traditional use is there a case to have it cover other public/common goods such as access to fresh water, disposal of human waste?
At least asking and answering the question. Democracy is great but it relies on people. Sick or dead people from polluted water etc doesn't seem such a good future for democracy. People who cannot afford to access water because of costs imposed by a possibly privatised water supply do not have democracy at the top of their minds, survival is more likely.
Why is the question at least not asked, explored etc? What is the danger of that?
You're arguing around in circles. Entrenching public ownership isn't going to guarantee access to affordable water supply, or that people won't get sick or die from polluted water. Whether or not water should be in public or private hands is a policy decision that elected governments should be able to make on the basis of their assessment of the best interests of the country. Just like 3Waters, merging RNZ and TVNZ and any other major policy decision.
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Series of huge, violent slams from the malevolently sadistic social housing neighbour on the other side of my 91 & 92 yo parents dividing-wall over a 2 hour period this afternoon & early evening. They’ve been forced to endure 5 years of this Nightmare.
And kept awake until 3am on Saturday night / Sunday morning with same violent, intimidatory behaviour + stereo at full volume with aggressive MoFo lyrics.
Thanks to the current Govt for their No Eviction policy … your core supporters really appreciate being thrown to the wolves … while you & your highly privileged Woke cadre devise ways to romanticise the wolves & reframe them as victims in order to enhance your in-group social prestige.
Cheers for the sadism towards very elderly people who've spent their lives self-sacrificing for others (incl election day activism for Labour over an almost 40 year period), cheers for the ruthless self-interest & rank cowardice, cheers for treating some of the most socially-minded, caring people like animals to be viciously used & abused.
You’re slowly but surely killing them through extreme stress & sleep deprivation.
Really sorry to hear the saga is ongoing and unresolved it's an absolute disgrace.
You need to get this behaviour on record.
.
Cheers, Red.
My ancient smart phone (born 2012) proved absolutely useless … couldn't even remotely deal with the mongrel's violent slamming into the dividing wall / driving heavy objects with full force into both the floor & walls / highly aggressive haka-like stomping … too many decibels … just couldn't handle it.
To give you an idea of the level of noise (& the sheer degree of aggression & violence that went into it), I'll point to two aspects.
(1) My parents' long-standing neighbours across the road (who have given massive support, frequently rung the police & given testimonials about his behaviour at meetings with KO) live about 20 metres from the mongrel neighbour's unit … & in response to his extreme noise late at night & throughout the early hours they had their bedroom windows double-glazed last year. And yet, despite that, this violent anti-social's full-scale slamming inside through the early hours is so extreme that the neighbours across the road are frequently woken at 2, 3, 4am. So just imagine what it's like for my 91 / 92 yo parents just metres away from the sadistic prick on the other side of the (non-soundproof) dividing wall. And they have to live with all the swearing & threats through the wall as well.
(2) Late last year, my parents rang me around 2:30am during yet another major explosion of violent intimidation from this fuckhead (I was on chemo, of course), I arrived 25 mins later, parked my car in their driveway (at the other end of their house from the neighbouring unit) & before I even got out of the car I could hear what sounded like my parents house being demolished from the inside. Fucking HUGE violent constant slams. Like builders demolishing an old inner-city building from the inside.
Then I paid around $180 for an audio recorder with small external microphones that was advertised as being good … had high hopes that I'd finally be able to get the sheer magnitude of the prick's violence on to social media … because people will be absolutely bloody shocked if they heard it. It's one thing writing about it, but if people heard that visceral violence inflicted on very elderly people, I think it would develop into a real scandal.
But although the audio recorder was adequate for getting his aggressive rants outside their house throughout the early hours … swearing at the top of his voice & threatening violence … it was just as useless as the phone when it came to the violent explosions inside … rendered each huge slam etc as a kind of slow-motion hollow noise. Again, not sophisticated enough to deal with the decibels. So a waste of time & money in that regard.
But I do have a number of his early morning violent/threatening rants outside their house recorded. Here's just a little bit of a transcript of his rant from a couple of months ago that took place between 1:30-3am. It was aimed largely at me on this occasion … I arrived in the late evening to stay a night with them & he obviously noticed my car when he turned up after 1am … straight outside my parents' house, shouting lot's of threats of violence & wanting to fight me (haven't spoken to him since intitially confronting him in late 2018 after he started focussing his violence on my parents) … verbatim segement of transcript from around 2:30am:
"What the fuck !!! … what the fuck !!! …Come over here and I will smash metal right through your fucking head, cunt !!! … shut the fuck up !!! … I will fucking smash you cunt !!!"
On top of these recordings, I also have diary-like entries (pen on paper) for all of his violence, intimidation & the severe sleep deprivation forced on my parents … there's been so much of this behaviour that it runs to a very large number of pages … dates, times, full details (from my parents, from the neighbours & from my own witnessing of events), when the police or noise control have had to be called and so on. So there's a very rich source of info on his behaviour.
And yet still no consequences for the fucker.
Would you consider going to the media? No need to answer Swordfish.
There would be pros and cons obviously. The guy should be in prison .
I would have thought the Zoo appropriate, maybe it could learn some tricks for folks to watch on their visits
.
Thanks for all your support, Anker … genuinely appreciate it.
Yeah, I've definitely considered it & did make an approach (albeit a fairly tentative one) that ultimately proved unsuccessful.
But I did have a productive on-going email conversation through Dec 2021 to Feb 2022 with a prominent senior lawyer who is looking at taking a class action against KO.
She's an absolute god-send to all the powerless victims of this on-going Scandal (essentially, scapegoats of the affluent virtue-signaling, self-interested Pakeha Woke Grandees & the bitter & twisted Poto Williams of this world … see how they care about the most violent, sadistic out-of-control members of the underclass from their safe middle-class enclaves many miles from the mayhem they've directly enabled … does that not demonstrate beyond doubt their "uniquely-refined moral sensibilities" for all the common soldiery to see ?).
Lawyer was shocked by the detailed overview I gave her – felt it was absolutely horrific, which it is – & encouraged me to consider speaking about the situation (anonymously) to either RNZ or Newstalk ZB as a way of publicising it & hopefully forcing some sort of resolution.
Was very tempted but, as I pointed out, I was on full chemo at the time (both infusion & tablets) and hence regularly experiencing "Chemo Fog" (which is a bit like trying to think when you've been deprived of sleep for 48 hours … a pretty common side-effect) … some rounds of chemo, I experienced little if any chemo fog but others I experienced a lot … and there was no telling when it was going to happen from one day to the next … no clear pattern … no way of predicting. So it would've been a disaster if I was scheduled to speak (possibly live ?) on radio on a particular day & time and happened to have that excessive mental tiredness on that day.
Given the circs, I felt going to the print media would've been better … providing a detailed overview (full dates, times, detail of all of his major explosions … although so much day-after-day violent & anti-social behaviour, so much severe sleep deprivation & stress for them over the last 5 years that it would've been difficult to encapsulate it in a very concise way … would’ve had to go for a very broad overview with just a handful of illustrative examples to keep it readable & concise).
But The Herald is probably the only realistic option … Stuff (& thus the local Dom Post) are so hopelessly, dogmatically Woke that I have doubts they'd even give a shite … would be at total odds with their core CRT narrative (reinforced by the ideological demands & profound editorial shaping of the Govt's public interest journalism fund).
After a Herald journo wrote of yet another KO neighbourhood scandal earlier this year, I did email him & link to my outline of my parent's situation on my blog … but unfortunately didn't hear back … he'd obviously moved on to other things.
So, real feeling of powerlessness.
But then again, as our resident Moral Exemplar – our very own Nelson Mandela / MLK impersonator – the admirably dogmatic Greenie activist Muttonbird – opined from his safe middle class redoubt at the foot of Mt Wellington …
.
I should, incidentally, at this point publicly acknowledge & massively thank both Tom Hunter at Yes Minister & David Farrar at Kiwiblog.
Both gentlemen published blog posts on my parents' situation. And I greatly appreciate it.
Tom was the first to publish & provided great moral support & mentioned their situation in a series of comments on a number of blogs.
David Farrar didn't have to publish anything … there were plenty of Kainga Ora scandal stories breaking during that period … and given that just a few years earlier I'd published a post (read by almost 12k) that quite sarcastically criticised his (highly influential) polling analysis in the wake of the 2017 General Election … he could've quite happily ignored my parents' situation & still had plenty of ammunition against the Govt's social housing policy.
But he did post on it & thus made it far more widely known (in the process, significantly enlarging the readership of my own blog post on my parents' nightmare to well over 4k … it’s a big moral boost when you know there are thousands of people who know the details of what this fucker has done).
So I greatly appreciate both men's support & integrity, regardless of whether or not it upsets a few echo-chamber partisans here.
Yes it takes a lot of effort persisting with the media and even more with legal action. It must have felt almost impossible to comtemplate when you were going through chemo. An worry that you and your parents should not be dealing with particularly when you were unwell.
Our "caring" govt will be doing all it can to try and mop up any problematic stories in election year that don't fit the narrative of kindness. So it may be something that will have more impact in election year.
You may not be in the space to comtemplate any sort of action on your parents behalf right now. I did a quick search and found the following Stuff journalists had written on anti social tenants in Kainga Ora houses.
Amy Ridout 19/03/22
Lucy Xia 19/01/21
Jonathan Killick 25/06/22
I agree that Stuff are so hopelessly woke though. They are the pr machine for Woke ideology trying to impart right think to the masses.
RNZ – Raysa Almelda wrote on this. As did Bruce Edwards on The Democracy Project.
I think Sean Plunkett would be very interested in your story (or even Michael Laws who is on the Platform). However The Platform is dismissed and discredited by the left, so it may not have the desired effect politically.
Let me know if this is helpful and I will continue to search. I appreciate it may not be the right time for you.
I do remember now about the legal action. Is that still on-going?
I am very fortunate to live in a quiet neighbourhood and one of the things that I think would very seriously effect my quality of life would be an anti social neighbour moving in. That would be my worst nightmare. Having relative peace and quiet in your own home is just basic to good health and sanity.
That was also one of the reasons I had very little sympathy for the Wellington elite (not the people who lived in appartments across from parliament) when the protestors were there. Of course the bureacrats and politicians could retreat to their peaceful living situations and even work from home to avoid the "river of filth". It seemed yet more rank hypocracy from the PMC, who don't give a dam about Rotorua and all the other anti social tenants ruining peoples lives.
Keep posting with your descriptions of the PMC and the woke elites. I think some on this may not geniunely understand the threat that they present to the well being of our country, but a few of us do. I admire your ability with words.
Cheers now
Muttonbirds comments were seriously off. I would give him less than a day to put up with what your parents are going through and he would be squealing at the top of his lungs.
it sounds like gentrification by stealth. Put in unsuitable tenants in an area, let them wreck havoc until the good law abiding citizen give up and some government connected PPP developer comes along to buy up pennies to the dollars the houses from the people who have been terrorized by the state tenants.
I am sure that other people in the same cirucmstances have been told to' just sell and move'?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/11/homeowner-says-k-inga-ora-told-her-to-move-after-she-complained-about-disruptive-neighbours.html#:~:text=Housing-,Homeowner%20says%20K%C4%81inga%20Ora%20told%20her%20to,she%20complained%20about%20disruptive%20neighbours&text=An%20Auckland%20homeowner%20who%20says,a%20complaint%20to%20the%20Ombudsman.
Swordfish, I don't know what sort of support you have around you. I would be happy to help e.g letters to MPs, protest outside kainga Ora or donation of money for recording equipment or legal action.
I am not sure what of these options could work, but others on the site seem to have some good ideas.
Its an absolute outrage. My peace and quiet in my home is really important to me and it is hard for me to imagine how your parents have coped with this. Of course they shouldn't never have had to. Once this a…hole showed his true colours, very early on, that should have been it! Out. Gone. It is likely Kainga Ora knew before they placed him there there would be problems. B…tards. And then those PMC types banged on about the Parliamentary protest and how awlful it was for them having these people at their workplace.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/12/jacinda-ardern-says-parliament-protest-was-one-of-most-challenging-parts-of-year-she-worried-about-people-s-safety.html. And this from JA. But it falls on deaf ears for me
Just disgraceful that this atrocious behaviour by your parents neighbours wasn't stopped (via eviction) from the get go. No one should have to put up with this.
The guy is an ar….hole and so are the people who administer his tennancy and those above them who are likely very, very busy attending meetings and diversity and inclusion workshops and not worrying too much about the cost of living crisis because they are abundantly paid for this disgrace.
Swordfish this is terrible.
I am wondering if there could be a case for seeking injunctive relief, as a shot across the bows. The mere action of doing this may force some action. What I was thinking was whether there are public interest lawyers who would be able to draft something up pro bono. This could be served/lodged as a way to initiate action.
If there are costs I am sure that some of us would happily make a contribution according to our means. I would.
Other things, you've probably done these things
a) asking local MP to intervene, ask questions of the minister
b) picket KO offices
The issue in law pertains to legislation applying to landlord responsibility.
I am well aware of this.
The threat of injunctive relief/publicity does tend to focus the mind of those who it is against though.
Kind offer Shanreagh
There was an update on the definition of anti-social behaviour in 2021. (Previously, it seemed a direct threat to someone or their family had to be made – and captured on tape/video).
https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Tenancy/anti-social-behaviour-factsheet-a3.pdf
Do your parents have any other options for accommodation at this time? (I know this is not a solution, just thinking they might need respite from the horrendous situation).
It does raise the issue of landlord responsibility – generally those over 65 and families should expect a certain level of safety in their housing arrangements.
Kind offer Shanreagh