Very kind of you to ask Patricia. Just been started on some anti biotics as Dr thinks I have a secondary infection. I am hoping this will do the trick.
And thanks to Anne's kind comments on another post. I couldn't respond, because there didn't seem to be a reply button. What you said Anne was very much appreciated.
One of the few ways we can reduce pressure on the lack of health sector capability is to improve the well-being of New Zealanders.
Every drug intervention that reduces demand on limited health (staff/equipment) resources is useful.
For years we skimped on such drug availability because of the cost to Pharmac while transferring the consequences to a health service that could not cope (and at far greater cost and worse health outcomes/loss of work capability). Madness.
CF is neither preventable not curable and affects a relatively small number of New Zealanders. Unless Pharmac resources (funding) is increased such watershed moments will be far between.
The only word in your comment I disagree with is “centrally” but yes, 100% agree. The question is how best one achieves keeping something so precious in public ownership for future generations. Many people seem to think that once you manage something you practically own it too. It becomes even more confusing when you throw in terms and concepts such as stewardship, governance, guardianship, and trustees (not necessarily only in the legal sense). The legal boffins who were very quick to judge the entrenchment shambles quickly run out of words and tools to suggest an alternative.
This is pretty dam silly IMO – I believe entrenching Public ownership of water would be a big vote winner those arguing against it would be open to being accused they want to sell it – An enormous vote loser IMO
Not exactly my words but definitely my sentiments.
Three Waters needs to get through before the House rises this year. Once it gets enacted, our (personal and parliamentary) long break follows and many things are forgotten or become less worrying after a break and time with friends and family.
Just tried to link to where I set out the sitting days until Christmas but search returns the word ‘nothing’
But it is hard getting traction with people over the break. Getting people all upset over the break does not work so that momentum is lost. Once the legislation is enacted any voices by the opposition become clanging symbols/empty vessels.
I did not say that he issue goes away but the ability to manufacture outrage is diminished by
people not wanting to waste brain power over a break, they just want to cog down (why do you think we have 'pap' on TV and long reads on interesting topics in the newspapers).
moving into implementation mode
I have no doubt that all those parties will fan/manufacture the fires of outrage but people lose interest.
Th election is more likely to be on issues such as the propensity of those parties to privatise anything that moves if they get to be in office. Their inability to support entrenchment against privatising to show that they will treat water as a public good may backfire.
Indeed, let’s stick with number 8 wire and black tape because that has served us so well i.e., if it ain’t broken yet keep your fingers crossed and your head in the sand for as long as possible. No need to borrow more and at much higher interest rates than currently.
Oh dear Incognito, you are getting desperate. No8 wire was not promoted (though it does have its uses)….ask yourself WHY we havnt provided the needed investment in our infrastructure these past decades?
We haven’t?? Where did my rates go to then? I’m sure it said that some of it went towards water servicing costs. When I’ll get home, I will check my latest rates invoice.
Water is a public good, AFAIK, and as such does not and should not be centralised/re-centralised, whatever you mean by that.
The Government is proposing to create 4 regional entities to manage the country’s current [three] water services; ownership remains with Councils and the likes; what the co-governance will look like is anybody’s guess at the moment. As such, there is no and should not be any talk of centralisation/re-centralisation in this context.
I completely and utterly agree with everything else you said.
That's what you do before you have legislation that's gone through Select Committee and is gone through second reading. Then you put it up, get your MPs on radio and tv, etc.
What was needed today was a specific legislative text ready to go as a fresh SOP.
Agree Ad but it may (being optimistic) help in skewering opposition parties trying to nay say Three Waters and who clearly believe (by not supporting entrenchment clauses) in the ability to privatise.
But clear thoughts in readable articles over the break may help tamp down party driven public concern/educate the public.
not sure how you are using discursive there, but Lew's argument is that entrenchment shouldn't be used in this case, but protecting water from privatisation could be done via a GE/binding referendum. This is not dependent on three waters.
What was needed today was a specific legislative text ready to go as a fresh SOP.
The well is already poisoned. "The people" have had their perceptions irremediably tainted. The left need to take a lesson in how the right mount saturation propaganda campaigns through the organisations that naturally align with them.
Updating their CV's would be a good idea,if they double down for an additional 4%,problematic issues with multiple stories from the PM,and wilful misdirection on cause and effect.
Winston is being as slippery as Teflon-John in a bucket of snot because Ardern didn’t use those exact words, did she? But hey, it’s SM (Twitter) and everybody knows what he means so it is pretty ok to twist the words a little to create one’s preferred narrative.
What I saw and heard on the post cabinet press conference,was the PM and Hitchens saying they were unaware that the amended entrenchment was in until it had been passed.
Mahuta said it had been discussed at the labour caucus,can both arguments be correct?
It seems that Winston’s word is good enough for you and that you just lapped it up without fact-checking. Ardern never said those exact words, AFAIK, but what she did say is that the team takes one for the team and will fix it as a [united] team, i.e., without the scapegoating, finger-pointing, and public blaming & shaming that media and the opposition parties are so fond of – heads must roll – and Luxon is clearly like a bloodhound on that trail of irrelevancy. Perhaps that subtle difference is lost on you but surely not on that old fox Winston with his divisive tactics and rhetoric that suckered you in.
Perhaps you can find a recording with time stamp where Ardern used those exact words as asserted by Winston.
Anywho, this is not about what Mahuta said, but what Ardern said according to the Gospel of Peters, so please don’t divert.
PS who’s Hitchens? I thought he had died many years ago.
Are you confirming Winston’s tweeted Trumpian assertion? Or are you diverting away from that tweet that you posted before, like a tiny Trojan? It seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it.
You have failed to provide a time stamp but this most likely is because you cannot back up Winston’s claim.
I am not diverting from the tweet,the PM and the leader of the house stated they were unaware last monday ( that is a week ago see calenders they provide time lines eg a week = 7 days )
Peters is voicing what is widely reported,that they said they were unaware of the amendment.
The order paper was agreed between Green MP Eugenie Sage and Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta, according to Sage. But Minister Chris Hipkins, Labour’s Leader of the House, said he wasn’t aware of the party seeking a 60% majority threshold on the issue. Ardern said the change to the law was made “in real time” and wasn’t something “I would necessarily be aware of”.
Is “Peters is voicing” a euphemism for putting words into the PM’s mouth? If so, you seem quite ok with that. If not, where is his quote coming from, with time stamp, please?
You posted that Trumpian tweet, and you’ve been running away from it faster than Luxon flips burgers and does U-turns on statements.
No self-respecting TS commenter would willingly do the dirty work of and for Winston Peters.
Sorry do you not understand what has been reported from the press conference in the links provided,which include the segments from the PM.
Do you understand what aware is ? what would the statements mean
The order paper was agreed between Green MP Eugenie Sage and Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta, according to Sage. But Minister Chris Hipkins, Labour’s Leader of the House, said he wasn’t aware of the party seeking a 60% majority threshold on the issue. Ardern said the change to the law was made “in real time” and wasn’t something “I would necessarily be aware of”.
The order paper was agreed between Green MP Eugenie Sage and Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta, according to Sage. But Minister Chris Hipkins, Labour’s Leader of the House, said he wasn’t aware of the party seeking a 60% majority threshold on the issue. Ardern said the change to the law was made “in real time” and wasn’t something “I would necessarily be aware of”
So Peters is suggesting that the PM was unaware (which the PM also stated as did the leader of the house)
I cannot see your argument for falsification,ill posed as it was, as any dictionary will show what unaware is.If you argument is different from my assumptions,( or the dictionary definitions) or the reported detail,maybe you should explain it more clearly,where there is an ambiguity.
And now you have changed it to “Peters is suggesting” 😀
No wonder you cannot provide a time stamp to support the fake quote by Peters that you spread all too happily.
We, or at least I, expect Peters’ rhetoric to be too unreliable to take at face value. It seems that your comments have reached the same standard of truthiness.
It was a live press conference,like the one this afternoon,where at 4.35 pm NZDST the PM mentioned the SOP in passing,and said we will not be focussing on an individual,the caucus has undertaken a collective responsibility (which includes retrenchment) similar to cabinet responsibilites.
The reporting of last weeks press conference has been shown in the available links across this thread of which you seem unaware of.
The alternative assumption that the PM was aware of what was being proposed in the SOP,seems to be what you are arguing for,which seems very strange,and a political landmine i would argue.
The argument is the PM was either aware of the reduced number in the SOP (for without reduction entrenchment was dead in the water) or unaware,without any other evidence I will take her and the leaders quoted answers,
It was a live press conference,like the one this afternoon,where at 4.35 pm NZDST the PM mentioned the SOP in passing …
Thank you but where is your link to the recording “like” the recording that I’ve been asking for since the cows left home?
And this was after the tweet by Peters! So, irrelevant.
I’m not aware of what the PM is or is not aware of.
However, I’m aware of Peter’s misleading tweet containing a fake quote that you wilfully linked to here on TS to spin a narrative of “wilful misdirection” on behalf of the PM.
The irony is that you have been obfuscating and diverting from your own contribution to and role in spreading Peter’s nefarious spin as if you are unaware of it: Peters this, Peters that, Peters whatever …
I think Peters will be mightily happy with your efforts here and I almost expect him to pop up here and like your comments.
The misdirection was saying that there was a probability of privatizing the water assets by the nat/act,when the only statements i have heard was a repeal of the legislation
I’m not aware of what the PM is or is not aware of.
Checks dictionary. Are you aware of the PM statements
So the PM was not aware of the reduced % of the entrenchment provisions and the leader of the house was not either (until after the event) as the SOP novel approach was introduced in real time.
The order paper was agreed between Green MP Eugenie Sage and Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta, according to Sage. But Minister Chris Hipkins, Labour’s Leader of the House, said he wasn’t aware of the party seeking a 60% majority threshold on the issue. Ardern said the change to the law was made “in real time” and wasn’t something “I would necessarily be aware of”.
Are you and Winston Peters aware of what the PM said and has not said? Peters seems happy enough to create his own narrative and you seem happy enough to spread it around as factual.
I’m sure you can correct this misdirection by a link with time stamp but you have not done so, which begs the questions what is stopping you and why are you spreading Peters’ BS assertions that belong on Twitter. (NB I love the blue check mark on Peters’ account, which shows it comes from the genuine spin-master)
Yes you are correct Incognito,Winston was using misdirection and I was mistaken,she must have known all along that the reduced % for retrenchment would be introduced by stealth (by means of an SPO) as it was discussed at caucus therefore full responsibility lies with the PM for unsignalled legislation under urgency,with all the constitutional problems it entailed.
BTW speaking of blue ticks,Apple just confirmed their advertising on twitter.
One of the problems with the dogmatic obsession of neoliberals on personal responsibility is the fixation on blaming, isolating, and punishing individuals for perceived misdemeanours and faux pas. Perhaps this is also the reason why neoliberals always stress [about] transparency and accountability, especially of civil servants, so that they can better aim & target individuals doing their job (and making mistakes).
Musk will be over the moon with Apple, if it is true what you say.
Actually I was using the PM and Hipkins when they stated that they were unaware of the novel use of an entrenchment provision.
It is also in the MSM,if you followed.
Last week, Hipkins said he did not know Sage had proposed to set entrenchment at 60%. She had to do so to get her provision across the line, because the National Party did not support it.
…. Ardern said last week was not familiar with Sage’s provision, as she wasn’t in the House when it was voted on. But Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta confirmed to Stuff that this was discussed in a caucus meeting which Ardern attended.
it’s a big mess, and I’m not sure anyone knows what happened. Much of the discussion on SM and MSM has at times conflated the entrenchment itself with the %. I have stopped following because it’s crazy making. Let me know if you find a timeline though, that would be very useful.
Lew is your classic very serious person, thinking he is a "moderate liberal" who is in fact almost entirely a neoliberal apologist. He demands elite debate be framed by norms of middle class politeness and dislikes the vulgar and disruptive nature of both the left and the right. Above all, he constantly gives the technocratic establishment the benefit of the doubt.
Labour needs to ask itself a simple political quesion – how many votes do pearl clutching centrists and legal academics command? Then once they’ve worked out they are onto a vote winner tell them all to fuck off, they are the government and they have decided to entrench the protection of water as a public asset. They can take their constitutional concerns over "fettering parliament" and shove it.
If they don't like it they can climb down from their ivory towers to join the opposition and campaign to repeal the entrenchment of public ownership of water.
Let's see how many votes telling the public they don't mind private corporations (even Maori ones!!!!) "fetterring parliament's ability to decide" once water has been privatised gets them.
The provision of water supply requires operational amalgamation in order to deliver a fully modern and efficient service.
But the public also sense that consolidation from a governance perspective makes the asset more vulnerable to privatisation.
There is some merit in having water assets owned by a hodge-podge of many local councils – it keeps control diffuse and difficult to sell. Sage's ill-fated entrenchment provision was an attempt to resolve this contradiction. Potentially a good idea, but constitutionally fatally flawed.
The compromise path left now is something like the Wellington Water model, when the regional organisation operates the asset and local councils still clearly own them. It is not ideal, but it is a way to square this particular circle.
The problem remains one where councils have debt ceilings and an inability to finance the required investment without significant rate increases.
Some (lack of ratepayers) councils cannot afford the upgrades at all and some urban councils have a lot of old infrastructure to upgrade all at once (and this is beyond debt ceiling capacity).
Each need government assistance – one the money, and the other bridging finance. There is also the issue of national planning as to scheduling because of capability constraints (skilled workers and interface with Treasury and RB as to economic activity levels).
And if that was not difficult enough, there is the issue of Maori water rights.
If you characterize the Centrist voters as "pearl clutching centriststs" – you've pretty definitively lost them. Bad news. Centrist voters decide elections.
A labour party that was the voice of the people and wasn't filled with almost exclusively academics, neoliberal apologists and the over educated professional managerial class technocrats wouldn't back down to outraged academics and would realize that actually keeping water from being privatized is a vote winner and tell the ivory tower brigade to gtfo.
Unfortunately labours parliamentary wing is full to the brim with those same technocratic ivory tower voices , a labour party with more diversity of class would have come up with a far more populist and popular alternative to to protect water and water assets, three waters is the fever dream of the very academics and pmcs outraged by entrenchment because many of them probably want the water bundled up so it can be sold off in the first place.
It may be a bit early to say that a strategic retreat is a mistake, take this to committee and whose the villain then? When National and Act don’t support Entrenchment then who is framed as wanting free reign to privatise water. This may well be the cleverest political move of the year.
It seems unlikely to be a clever political move (at least by Labour)- as both Ardern and Hipkins have come out saying that entrenchment was a "mistake" which will result in the bill being returned to committee to have the provision removed before it goes back to Parliament.
It may well be a clever political move by the Greens – who have placed their differences to Labour on this issue – front and centre with the electorate.
Patricia. Do you think that political parties should use entrenchment in areas other than constitutional ones (i.e. election law)?
The problem for Labour is that they've moved the debate from water reform to constitutional law – where they are on very shaky ground, indeed. Hence the rapid back-pedalling.
Oh, I'm happy to answer. It was just that the question had nothing to do with the actual substance of what was being discussed – Labour's backdown (and effectively admitting they were wrong) over the attempt to entrench something other than constitutional law.
No one has been discussing whether water should be a public good.
Typically, things which are regarded as 'public good' have no individual cost associated with them.
That is not the case for water – I regularly pay water rates and usage charges for the privilege of having a clean and sanitary water supply (and since I live in Auckland, am getting a fairly good deal)
There are definitely associated benefits for part-payment for water usage (those areas which have this, have much lower overall usage of water per-household, than those areas for which it is rolled into the general rates).
If you are asking whether water-supply and infrastructure should be maintained in public ownership, yes, of course I think it should be. As does every political party in NZ. Talk about a straw man argument!
If you are asking if I agree with the establishment of a massive additional layer of bureaucracy, and removal of decision-making from the people who pay for it – then, no, I do not. I think water infrastructure should remain under the control of locally elected representatives.
That is not the case for water – I regularly pay water rates and usage charges for the privilege of having a clean and sanitary water supply
One way of looking at this is that you are not so much paying for the water itself, but the provision and disposal of it in a safe and reliable manner.
Personally I think John Key had it right on this – that no-one owns water. Every single molecule migrates through vast, ceaseless hydrological cycles across the entire biosphere. It is no more realistic to allocate ownership title to water than it is to air.
The only reason why we even incorrectly think water might be ownable is that unlike air, it is transiently visible in locations like rivers, lakes and reservoirs.
The collection, delivery and disposal of safe reliable water is akin to someone filling a dive tank with compressed air – you are not buying title or ownership of the air, you are purchasing a specialised service that happens to deliver air in a clean compressed form.
The confusion arises when we a start to use pricing mechanisms to allocate scarce freshwater resources for agriculture or bottling. In this instance water is priced not in order to convey title, but to protect it from the tragedy of the commons and preserve it as a public good. A public good that is the concern of everyone – represented by the State.
Oh, I agree – that's why I specifically said paying for water supply.
Probably closer to the definition of a 'common good' than a 'public good'
As, certainly in times of drought, usage by one individual impacts on the ability of others to access water.
And, pricing impacts on usage. We've seen lots of evidence in NZ that areas which have water costs rolled into general rates – or even a separate water rate – have much higher individual usage, than those areas which meter water, and charge for water actually used by the household. IMHO – reducing water waste is a good outcome.
While I agree that no one 'owns' water – the management of the resource needs to be done at a 'commons' level. Where the Labour Party and I disagree is the governmental level at which that 'commons' should operate.
One way of looking at this is that you are not so much paying for the water itself, but the provision and disposal of it in a safe and reliable manner.
The majority of which is in the cost of capital to provide the facilities to provide it and especially to clean up before disposal. It is almost entirely overhead costs. Generally the direct production costs are all in handling the waste water. Which is why in Auckland the waste water processing charges are more than double the tap water charges.
One of the problems with agriculture as an industry is that they don’t handle waste water very well, and frequently they don’t handle it at all. It just flows away with extra phosphates, nitrates, eroded soil, sprays, etc in a true tragedy of the commons and becomes someone else pollution problem. Or it seeps into groundwater or aquifers.
Most (but not all) of the other industries and cities have had curbs on polluting for many decades. It isn’t perfect, but it is regulated and does a reasonable and improving job. Needs a lot more work. For instance the recent changes to the Waikato river plan – which look at best like they barely change the river health over the next 80 years. I’d expect that the river will keep worsening under its provisions.
What farmers proclaim as being “excessive regulation” is simply them being pulled to account for polluting land use.
No one has been discussing whether water should be a public good.
Is untreated sewerage a public good? Because that is where the bulk of the capital investment required under 3 waters is going to go. It is also the vast majority of water treatment costs are incurred.
Should we close off your toilet and let its waste spread over your lawn? I’d expect that to be unpopular as well.
If you are asking whether water-supply and infrastructure should be maintained in public ownership, yes, of course I think it should be. As does every political party in NZ. Talk about a straw man argument!
FFS: Water infrastructure includes water supply. However it also includes treatment of sewage water and what it carries and the handling (and often treatment) of storm waters.
if you want to argue something then don’t pick the cheapest part of the whole water system (provision of palatable water) and promote that as being the only part of the system.
I had no intention of separating out water supply from waste water (and, indeed, my water bills/rates cover both) – that's why I said and infrastructure..
As I said in reply to RedLogix – I think water infrastructure is probably closer to the definition of a 'common good' than a 'public good'
It is a common good that has to be paid for. It isn't free infrastructure.
I don't really give a damn if it is paid for by taxes (3waters), rates (current), or users (current). That is all the same thing. The problem is that the level of payment into water infrastructure is completely inadequate in almost every region (apart from maybe Auckland and Christchurch). The skills to put it in and maintain it are scattered and diffuse. And over the whole of NZ it is going backwards at a rate of knots.
Common good is effectively what the 3 waters is about – paying for the infrastructure with taxpayers credit because it has been under-invested for decades. There is no freaking way that most councils are up to the task of doing it better.
So 'common good' is getting worse. What is your solution for doing it properly. Or are you just going to be just another mindless whinging critic who waves their hand in the air rather than doing the hard work of looking for viable solutions?
Should we close off your toilet and let its waste spread over your lawn? I’d expect that to be unpopular as well.
Depending on how far West you’re looking and what you’re looking for you may have come across properties with septic tanks. The more modern systems are quite advanced compared to the old gravity-based strain & drain systems in order to clean up the water before it goes onto your land.
Of course, the water standards are causing friction with farmers other rural polluters too.
There’s a good reason that Three Waters bundles these things together and is even considering the connection with and impact on coastal and geothermal waters too.
I agree. Key would not have been able to enrich himself and others through asset sales. I see he is positioning himself for the next "Fire Sale." by taking a Directorship in an entity Act intend to sell off.
Evidence that Key enriched himself through asset sales?
If you have this, it would be a major scandal. IIRC, Key deliberately put his assets into a blind trust, so that he couldn't be accused of this kind of insider trading.
Good old Key, good old Watson, Fay & Richwhite etc. Top NZers with an eye to the main chance….oops too bad about the NZ assets. I wonder if they will still be around if NActs get in……perhaps they could work with The Treasury in an advisory capacity.
IIRC, Key deliberately put his assets into a blind trust
It wasn't completely blind, didn't Key blurt that he was going to make good on some investment? I forget the details. Media let him away with it, as usual.
His involvement in Mossack Fonseca and the Panama Papers scandal . The giving of Citizenship to Thiel by Nathan Guy (when he did not qualify.) The bottles of wine he gave to reporters.( from his "Blind Trust" winery. )The BBQs with some questionable characters. Sleaze really. He sold off a huge number of our assets and state houses. There is more…. but it won't sway you.
You, however, asserted that Key benefitted personally from this. I'm still waiting for the evidence….
Disliking someone's political actions – even feeling they are unethical – is one thing, accusing them of corruption is another.
The only politician for whom we have fairly open evidence of this is Winston Peters – substantial donations from the fishing industry followed by canning cameras on fishing boats; substantial donations from the racing industry followed by 'pretty horses' tax breaks.
I'm perfectly willing to be swayed by evidence – but you've yet to provide any.
So, apart from the sale of his house – IIRC at a time when most houses were selling in that area for well above CV – and after he exited from Government – it's all stuff that you disapprove of, rather than actual evidence that he benefitted personally from government policies.
Rumour and innuendo.
Given the keen interest in him, if there were anything to find, I'd think it would have been found, and well aired in the media, by now.
I don't deny that elements benefitted from the policies of his government (just as elements have benefitted from the policies of this government). I agree that you can make a case that some of the decisions his government made were …. less than optimal [I don't think that the Panama Papers incident casts a favourable light on Key]
But there is (apparently) no evidence that he was personally corrupt – and personally benefitted through government asset sales – which is what Patricia was alleging: "enrich himself and others through asset sales."
But you still haven't established that there was any personal benefit to Key. Let alone any personal benefit from asset sales – which was Patricia's initial contention.
By all means, dislike his policies and the effects that you see on NZ society and economy from them – but accusing him of personal corruption (without evidence) seems to me to be a step too far.
Yes. And what's the betting that more than 75% of voters would happily entrench any law banning bottled water exports?
Too hard with all the different FT agreements?
How would NZ be punished?
Which of the usual earnest performers would trumpet specious excuses about Threats to Business?
The PM has not helped move forward the Radio NZ/TVNZ merger by suggesting that RNZ might not survive if it did not go ahead. RNZ only needs continued government funding to do that and to suggest an inability to continue to afford such a limited radio network outside of a merger inspires little confidence as to more major problems facing New Zealand.
It seems the current strategy is to infer the merger is both a way to save money and yet also provide the basis for some enhanced effort at maintaining some cultural identity infrastructure.
Nor has it been helped by Willie Jackson in an utterly chaotic interview – where he was completely unable to articulate the benefits, and appeared to threaten editorial independence.
I know Jackson shoots from the lip – but it really doesn't help Ardern, when she has to step in to downplay concerns caused by poor communication (poor, at best) from one of her ministers
Jackson was trying to say that a further fall back in TVNZ standards (as a public broadcaster) might see Jack Tame unleased into the reality TV world, rather than on politicians. It would have helped if there was some indication as to how the planned merger would prevent that.
I am interested in thoughts around the real danger of applying an entrenchment clause for legislation intended to protect core resources or infrastructure. Based on historical evidence it appears to me that the current 51% needed to pass legislation is not a strong enough mandate in many situations: https://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2022/12/is-3-waters-entrenchment-really-stupid.html
No…my reasoning will be the same but I shall read it now.
I have read it and my opinion is only strengthened…the foolish notion that entrenchment will only ever be used for beneficial acts is delusional…especially when considering unintended consequences….nobody has a working crystal ball
Im happy (and demanding of) with a 50 % plus 1 acceptance of legislation in our Parliament…that allows future voters the reasonable opportunity to fix previous fuck ups
If the majority desire it we have agreed that is how we wish to run things.
I think that the requirement for 75% agreement for major change would have the effect of stifling all change. How realistic is it that any Government will muster that number to agree on anything – apart from the most anodyne legislation?
Even the current Labour government – with an unprecedented-in-MMP-times majority, and supported by the Green party – can only muster 60%. I would be very surprised to see any future government mustering anything like 60% of the House.
How far do you think they'd get with any of their major legislative changes (centralizing the Health Boards, 3 Waters, TVNZ/RNZ merger – to just name 3) – if they had to negotiate with National over the legislation? All of those 3 could certainly be argued to be 'major' changes.
Those who don't want to respond are heavily in the camp of don't let's change what has gone before ie so entrenchment has traditionally been used for constitutional matters, oh heavens don't change a thing'
rather than saying/pondering
Accepting its traditional use is there a case to have it cover other public/common goods such as access to fresh water, disposal of human waste?
At least asking and answering the question. Democracy is great but it relies on people. Sick or dead people from polluted water etc doesn't seem such a good future for democracy. People who cannot afford to access water because of costs imposed by a possibly privatised water supply do not have democracy at the top of their minds, survival is more likely.
Why is the question at least not asked, explored etc? What is the danger of that?
You're arguing around in circles. Entrenching public ownership isn't going to guarantee access to affordable water supply, or that people won't get sick or die from polluted water. Whether or not water should be in public or private hands is a policy decision that elected governments should be able to make on the basis of their assessment of the best interests of the country. Just like 3Waters, merging RNZ and TVNZ and any other major policy decision.
Series of huge, violent slams from the malevolently sadistic social housing neighbour on the other side of my 91 & 92 yo parents dividing-wall over a 2 hour period this afternoon & early evening. They’ve been forced to endure 5 years of this Nightmare.
And kept awake until 3am on Saturday night / Sunday morning with same violent, intimidatory behaviour + stereo at full volume with aggressive MoFo lyrics.
Thanks to the current Govt for their No Eviction policy … your core supporters really appreciate being thrown to the wolves … while you & your highly privileged Woke cadre devise ways to romanticise the wolves & reframe them as victims in order to enhance your in-group social prestige.
Cheers for the sadism towards very elderly people who've spent their lives self-sacrificing for others (incl election day activism for Labour over an almost 40 year period), cheers for the ruthless self-interest & rank cowardice, cheers for treating some of the most socially-minded, caring people like animals to be viciously used & abused.
You’re slowly but surely killing them through extreme stress & sleep deprivation.
My ancient smart phone (born 2012) proved absolutely useless … couldn't even remotely deal with the mongrel's violent slamming into the dividing wall / driving heavy objects with full force into both the floor & walls / highly aggressive haka-like stomping … too many decibels … just couldn't handle it.
To give you an idea of the level of noise (& the sheer degree of aggression & violence that went into it), I'll point to two aspects.
(1) My parents' long-standing neighbours across the road (who have given massive support, frequently rung the police & given testimonials about his behaviour at meetings with KO) live about 20 metres from the mongrel neighbour's unit … & in response to his extreme noise late at night & throughout the early hours they had their bedroom windows double-glazed last year. And yet, despite that, this violent anti-social's full-scale slamming inside through the early hours is so extreme that the neighbours across the road are frequently woken at 2, 3, 4am. So just imagine what it's like for my 91 / 92 yo parents just metres away from the sadistic prick on the other side of the (non-soundproof) dividing wall. And they have to live with all the swearing & threats through the wall as well.
(2) Late last year, my parents rang me around 2:30am during yet another major explosion of violent intimidation from this fuckhead (I was on chemo, of course), I arrived 25 mins later, parked my car in their driveway (at the other end of their house from the neighbouring unit) & before I even got out of the car I could hear what sounded like my parents house being demolished from the inside. Fucking HUGE violent constant slams. Like builders demolishing an old inner-city building from the inside.
Then I paid around $180 for an audio recorder with small external microphones that was advertised as being good … had high hopes that I'd finally be able to get the sheer magnitude of the prick's violence on to social media … because people will be absolutely bloody shocked if they heard it. It's one thing writing about it, but if people heard that visceral violence inflicted on very elderly people, I think it would develop into a real scandal.
But although the audio recorder was adequate for getting his aggressive rants outside their house throughout the early hours … swearing at the top of his voice & threatening violence … it was just as useless as the phone when it came to the violent explosions inside … rendered each huge slam etc as a kind of slow-motion hollow noise. Again, not sophisticated enough to deal with the decibels. So a waste of time & money in that regard.
But I do have a number of his early morning violent/threatening rants outside their house recorded. Here's just a little bit of a transcript of his rant from a couple of months ago that took place between 1:30-3am. It was aimed largely at me on this occasion … I arrived in the late evening to stay a night with them & he obviously noticed my car when he turned up after 1am … straight outside my parents' house, shouting lot's of threats of violence & wanting to fight me (haven't spoken to him since intitially confronting him in late 2018 after he started focussing his violence on my parents) … verbatim segement of transcript from around 2:30am:
"What the fuck !!! … what the fuck !!! …Come over here and I will smash metal right through your fucking head, cunt !!! … shut the fuck up !!! … I will fucking smash you cunt !!!"
On top of these recordings, I also have diary-like entries (pen on paper) for all of his violence, intimidation & the severe sleep deprivation forced on my parents … there's been so much of this behaviour that it runs to a very large number of pages … dates, times, full details (from my parents, from the neighbours & from my own witnessing of events), when the police or noise control have had to be called and so on. So there's a very rich source of info on his behaviour.
Thanks for all your support, Anker … genuinely appreciate it.
Yeah, I've definitely considered it & did make an approach (albeit a fairly tentative one) that ultimately proved unsuccessful.
But I did have a productive on-going email conversation through Dec 2021 to Feb 2022 with a prominent senior lawyer who is looking at taking a class action against KO.
She's an absolute god-send to all the powerless victims of this on-going Scandal (essentially, scapegoats of the affluent virtue-signaling, self-interested Pakeha Woke Grandees & the bitter & twisted Poto Williams of this world … see how they care about the most violent, sadistic out-of-control members of the underclass from their safe middle-class enclaves many miles from the mayhem they've directly enabled … does that not demonstrate beyond doubt their "uniquely-refined moral sensibilities" for all the common soldiery to see ?).
Lawyer was shocked by the detailed overview I gave her – felt it was absolutely horrific, which it is – & encouraged me to consider speaking about the situation (anonymously) to either RNZ or Newstalk ZB as a way of publicising it & hopefully forcing some sort of resolution.
Was very tempted but, as I pointed out, I was on full chemo at the time (both infusion & tablets) and hence regularly experiencing "Chemo Fog" (which is a bit like trying to think when you've been deprived of sleep for 48 hours … a pretty common side-effect) … some rounds of chemo, I experienced little if any chemo fog but others I experienced a lot … and there was no telling when it was going to happen from one day to the next … no clear pattern … no way of predicting. So it would've been a disaster if I was scheduled to speak (possibly live ?) on radio on a particular day & time and happened to have that excessive mental tiredness on that day.
Given the circs, I felt going to the print media would've been better … providing a detailed overview (full dates, times, detail of all of his major explosions … although so much day-after-day violent & anti-social behaviour, so much severe sleep deprivation & stress for them over the last 5 years that it would've been difficult to encapsulate it in a very concise way … would’ve had to go for a very broad overview with just a handful of illustrative examples to keep it readable & concise).
But The Herald is probably the only realistic option … Stuff (& thus the local Dom Post) are so hopelessly, dogmatically Woke that I have doubts they'd even give a shite … would be at total odds with their core CRT narrative (reinforced by the ideological demands & profound editorial shaping of the Govt's public interest journalism fund).
After a Herald journo wrote of yet another KO neighbourhood scandal earlier this year, I did email him & link to my outline of my parent's situation on my blog … but unfortunately didn't hear back … he'd obviously moved on to other things.
So, real feeling of powerlessness.
But then again, as our resident Moral Exemplar – our very own Nelson Mandela / MLK impersonator – the admirably dogmatic Greenie activist Muttonbird – opined from his safe middle class redoubt at the foot of Mt Wellington …
You parents (sic) do have a house, pal. Surely that is something to be grateful for.
I should, incidentally, at this point publicly acknowledge & massively thank both Tom Hunter at Yes Minister & David Farrar at Kiwiblog.
Both gentlemen published blog posts on my parents' situation. And I greatly appreciate it.
Tom was the first to publish & provided great moral support & mentioned their situation in a series of comments on a number of blogs.
David Farrar didn't have to publish anything … there were plenty of Kainga Ora scandal stories breaking during that period … and given that just a few years earlier I'd published a post (read by almost 12k) that quite sarcastically criticised his (highly influential) polling analysis in the wake of the 2017 General Election … he could've quite happily ignored my parents' situation & still had plenty of ammunition against the Govt's social housing policy.
But he did post on it & thus made it far more widely known (in the process, significantly enlarging the readership of my own blog post on my parents' nightmare to well over 4k … it’s a big moral boost when you know there are thousands of people who know the details of what this fucker has done).
So I greatly appreciate both men's support & integrity, regardless of whether or not it upsets a few echo-chamber partisans here.
Yes it takes a lot of effort persisting with the media and even more with legal action. It must have felt almost impossible to comtemplate when you were going through chemo. An worry that you and your parents should not be dealing with particularly when you were unwell.
Our "caring" govt will be doing all it can to try and mop up any problematic stories in election year that don't fit the narrative of kindness. So it may be something that will have more impact in election year.
You may not be in the space to comtemplate any sort of action on your parents behalf right now. I did a quick search and found the following Stuff journalists had written on anti social tenants in Kainga Ora houses.
Amy Ridout 19/03/22
Lucy Xia 19/01/21
Jonathan Killick 25/06/22
I agree that Stuff are so hopelessly woke though. They are the pr machine for Woke ideology trying to impart right think to the masses.
RNZ – Raysa Almelda wrote on this. As did Bruce Edwards on The Democracy Project.
I think Sean Plunkett would be very interested in your story (or even Michael Laws who is on the Platform). However The Platform is dismissed and discredited by the left, so it may not have the desired effect politically.
Let me know if this is helpful and I will continue to search. I appreciate it may not be the right time for you.
I do remember now about the legal action. Is that still on-going?
I am very fortunate to live in a quiet neighbourhood and one of the things that I think would very seriously effect my quality of life would be an anti social neighbour moving in. That would be my worst nightmare. Having relative peace and quiet in your own home is just basic to good health and sanity.
That was also one of the reasons I had very little sympathy for the Wellington elite (not the people who lived in appartments across from parliament) when the protestors were there. Of course the bureacrats and politicians could retreat to their peaceful living situations and even work from home to avoid the "river of filth". It seemed yet more rank hypocracy from the PMC, who don't give a dam about Rotorua and all the other anti social tenants ruining peoples lives.
Keep posting with your descriptions of the PMC and the woke elites. I think some on this may not geniunely understand the threat that they present to the well being of our country, but a few of us do. I admire your ability with words.
Cheers now
Muttonbirds comments were seriously off. I would give him less than a day to put up with what your parents are going through and he would be squealing at the top of his lungs.
it sounds like gentrification by stealth. Put in unsuitable tenants in an area, let them wreck havoc until the good law abiding citizen give up and some government connected PPP developer comes along to buy up pennies to the dollars the houses from the people who have been terrorized by the state tenants.
I am sure that other people in the same cirucmstances have been told to' just sell and move'?
An Auckland homeowner who says she was advised to sell up and move out to get away from unruly Kāinga Ora neighbours has taken a complaint to the Ombudsman.
Swordfish, I don't know what sort of support you have around you. I would be happy to help e.g letters to MPs, protest outside kainga Ora or donation of money for recording equipment or legal action.
I am not sure what of these options could work, but others on the site seem to have some good ideas.
Its an absolute outrage. My peace and quiet in my home is really important to me and it is hard for me to imagine how your parents have coped with this. Of course they shouldn't never have had to. Once this a…hole showed his true colours, very early on, that should have been it! Out. Gone. It is likely Kainga Ora knew before they placed him there there would be problems. B…tards. And then those PMC types banged on about the Parliamentary protest and how awlful it was for them having these people at their workplace.
Just disgraceful that this atrocious behaviour by your parents neighbours wasn't stopped (via eviction) from the get go. No one should have to put up with this.
The guy is an ar….hole and so are the people who administer his tennancy and those above them who are likely very, very busy attending meetings and diversity and inclusion workshops and not worrying too much about the cost of living crisis because they are abundantly paid for this disgrace.
I am wondering if there could be a case for seeking injunctive relief, as a shot across the bows. The mere action of doing this may force some action. What I was thinking was whether there are public interest lawyers who would be able to draft something up pro bono. This could be served/lodged as a way to initiate action.
If there are costs I am sure that some of us would happily make a contribution according to our means. I would.
Other things, you've probably done these things
a) asking local MP to intervene, ask questions of the minister
There was an update on the definition of anti-social behaviour in 2021. (Previously, it seemed a direct threat to someone or their family had to be made – and captured on tape/video).
What will be considered anti-social behaviour?
Note: This is a new change to the law and this guidance is provided in good faith. It will be regularly reviewed and may be revised as future Tenancy Tribunal decisions provide greater clarity.
General examples of behaviour that may be considered anti-social, depending on the situation, include:
› loud, aggressive behaviour by tenants towards the neighbours or to each other if it reasonably causes alarm or distress to others
› parking across a shared driveway repeatedly, especially if someone is not readily available to move the vehicle
› leaving rubbish in shared areas/footpaths – the longer that it is not removed and the more dangerous or smelly the rubbish is, the more likely this will be viewed as anti-social behaviour that is more
than minor
› noise control callouts where a problem has been found
› any intimidating behaviour, including ‘hate speech’ expressing hate or behaviour that encourages violence towards someone based on race, religion or sexual orientation
› invasion of privacy by, for example, peeping or peering into someone’s home, including via CCTV, or loitering on someone else’s property
› graffiti or other damage to a neighbour’s property or public property.
Do your parents have any other options for accommodation at this time? (I know this is not a solution, just thinking they might need respite from the horrendous situation).
It does raise the issue of landlord responsibility – generally those over 65 and families should expect a certain level of safety in their housing arrangements.
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Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Disruption to patient care from a nationwide junior doctors strike is bordering on unsafe, a senior doctor claims, despite what health officials say. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Diepstraten, Senior Research Officer, Blood Cells and Blood Cancer Division, Walter and Eliza Hall Institute Ground Picture/Shutterstock The anti-cancer drug abemaciclib (also known as Vernezio) has this month been added to the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS) to treat certain ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dominic McAfee, Postdoctoral researcher, marine ecology, University of Adelaide Robbie Porter, OzFish Unlimited Around Australia, hundreds of people are coming together to help a once-prized, but decimated and largely forgotten marine ecosystem. They’re busy restoring Australia’s native oyster and mussel reefs. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sara Webb, Lecturer, Centre for Astrophysics and Supercomputing, Swinburne University of Technology Austin Human/Unsplash How does Earth stop meteors from hitting Earth and hurting people? –Asher, 6 years 11 months, New South Wales Alright, let’s embark on a meteor ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rory Mulcahy, Associate Professor of Marketing, University of the Sunshine Coast Professional sports organisations regularly promote and develop initiatives to support diversity, equity and inclusion. While sport has the power to change attitudes by sparking conversations about political issues and social ...
Comment: The weekly Monday post-Cabinet press conference is a useful forum for observing Christopher Luxon and how he is developing into the job of Prime Minister. He attempts to convey the impression of a man of action, speaking fast, delivering memorised National Party strategies in a connect-the-slogans kind of way, ...
Double votes, missing ballot boxes, tired tech and stressed staff: how tick-tallying went astray at last year’s election. Cast your mind back to November 2023, that bleary-eyed post-election period duringwhichwewaited, andwaited, for a coalition deal to be hammered out. A distraction from the hotel-hopping of our ...
International audiences are starting to discover what New Zealand already knew about After the Party.When After the Party aired in New Zealand last year, the response was fast and furious. In his preview for Rec Room, Duncan Greive said it was a “gritty, wrenching and highly confronting” series. By ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shahram Akbarzadeh, Convenor of the Middle East Studies Forum (MESF), and Acting Director the Alfred Deakin Institute for Citizenship and Globalisation, Deakin University Iran’s leadership has been a direct beneficiary of the months-long war in Gaza. With every missile that Israel fires ...
Claire Mabey reviews the haunting and sexy debut novel from Sinéad Gleeson, who is about to touch down in Aotearoa for a string of live events.When Irish writer Sinéad Gleeson was in Aotearoa in 2018 with her spectacular collection of essays, Constellations, she told me she was working on ...
PNG Post-Courier Bougainville Affairs Minister Manasseh Makiba has described the Post-Courier’s front page story yesterday regarding a meeting between Bougainville and national government leaders as “sensationalised” and without substance. The Autonomous Bougainville Government (AGB) had warned it might use “other avenues to gain its independence” should the PNG government “continue ...
Where some saw the worst press conference given by the government to date, Anna Rawhiti-Connell recognised girl maths game.Nicola Willis, recently exasperated by comparisons to Ruth Richardson, said she was “a bit sick of being compared with every female finance minister that’s ever been out there.”Some think that’s ...
The March results are reported against forecasts based on the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update 2023 (HYEFU 2023), published on 20 December 2023 and the results for the same period for the previous year. ...
Jamie Arbuckle, the district councillor who became an MP but decided to keep getting paid for both roles, will instead donate one salary to charity. ...
Adding gender to the Human Rights Act would simply make the implicit explicit. So why is it so controversial? Paul Thistoll explain. At present, Aotearoa’s 1993 Human Rights Act (HRA) includes sex, marital status, religious belief, ethical belief (meaning a lack of religious belief), colour, race, ethnicity or national origin, ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, an 18-year-old who’s studying and working in hospo shares their approach to spending and saving. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here.Gender: Transmasc Age: 18 Ethnicity: Pākehā/Māori Role: Student, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jane Kelsey, Emeritus Professor of Law, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Getty Images Resources Minister Shane Jones has reportedly asked officials for advice on whether oil and gas companies could be offered “bonds” as compensation if drilling rights offered by ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Gleeson, Associate Professor of Law, Macquarie University Shutterstock The Albanese government is weighing up the costs of delivering an election promise to protect religious people from discrimination in Commonwealth law. Such protections were relatively uncontroversial when included in state anti-discrimination ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yen Ying Lim, Associate Professor, Turner Institute for Brain and Mental Health, Monash University Pexels/Andrea Piacquadio Dementia is often described as “the long goodbye”. Although the person is still alive, dementia slowly and irreversibly chips away at their memories and the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Judy Bush, Senior Lecturer in Urban Planning, The University of Melbourne Adam Calaitzis/Shutterstock I met with a friend for a walk beside Merri Creek, in inner Melbourne. She had lived in the area for a few years, and as we walked ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Throsby, Distinguished Professor of Economics, Macquarie University Arts companies and individual artists in Australia are supported by government arts agencies, philanthropists, industry bodies, private donors and patrons. However, it is frequently overlooked that a major source of support for the arts ...
Harm Reduction Coalition Aotearoa, a new incorporated society dedicated to ending harmful drug policies, officially launched today, seeks a new fit-for-purpose drug law for Aotearoa New Zealand, rooted in science, experience and evidence. ...
The Corrections Minister admits he "muddied the water" after he and the Prime Minister repeatedly provided incorrect information about a $1.9 billion prison spend-up. ...
It took a post-post-cabinet statement to confirm that 810 new beds will be built at Waikeria, writes Stewart Sowman-Lund in this extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
Lili Tokaduadua was only 15 when she left her family in Fiji to pursue her netball dream in New Zealand. She’d been playing the sport for 10 years and was offered a netball scholarship at Auckland’s Howick College. Now, in her first year out of high school, the 19-year-old defender ...
The beloved local grocers lost a legal challenge to stop a new cycleway outside their store. Joel MacManus reports. In the annals of New Zealand legal history, there are a few brave people who have dared to stand up to the powers that be, no matter how bleak the odds ...
How what we produce and what we eat connects us to the world beyond our shores, visualised. Walking around a supermarket or vege shop, it might be obvious that everything on the shelves came from somewhere. But you might ...
Highly pathogenic avian influenza – H5N1, or bird flu – has been flying around the world since the late 1990s. New Zealand, Australia and the Pacific Islands are so far free of it, but now it’s been discovered in mainland Antarctica and scientists say it’s only a matter of time ...
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A,DIV,A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question?Send Newsroom your questions. The post Newsroom daily quiz, Tuesday 7 May appeared first on Newsroom. ...
The following interview with auto electrician and former caver Stu Berendt, 68, of Charleston on the West Coast, came about because he was part of the caving team that found the rare and amazing fossil remains of the giant Haast eagle, the subject of one of the year’s best books, ...
A $1.8b funding boost for Pharmac still won’t enable it to buy more drugs, raising questions about the Government’s approach to the agency The post Can Pharmac do more with the same pot of money? appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Professor Jemma Geoghegan, of the University of Otago, Otakou Whakaihu Waka, co-leads a Te Niwha project aimed at understanding how and where avian influenza could affect Aotearoa New Zealand, as the highly infectious H5N1 virus spreads globally. The virus has now spread to all continents except Oceania and was recently ...
Thirty years on from Rwanda’s genocide, is guilt over the atrocities is blinding the world to the true nature of its current leadership? The post The repressive underside of Rwanda’s regime appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Opinion: Last week, important recommendations for our criminal justice system were made by the international community. Every five years, each member of the United Nations has its human rights practices reviewed. This rolling event – the Universal Periodic Review – is the culmination of a government reporting on its human ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Eric Stokan, Assistant Professor of Political Science, University of Maryland, Baltimore County If you live in one of the most economically deprived neighborhoods in your city, you might think the government is directing a smaller share of public funds to your community. ...
Wansolwara The news media’s crucial role in climate change and environment journalism was the focus of The University of the South Pacific’s Journalism Programme 2024 World Press Freedom Day celebrations. The European Union Ambassador to the Pacific, Barbara Plinkert, and Pacific Islands Forum Secretary General Henry Puna were the chief ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Adams, Professor of Corporate Law & Academic Director of UNE Sydney campus, University of New England Last August, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) launched legal proceedings against Qantas. The consumer watchdog accused the airline of selling thousands of tickets ...
This episode of A View From Afar was recorded LIVE on May 6, 2024 (NZST) which is Sunday evening, May 5, 2024 at 8:30pm (USEST). In an analytical essay titled ‘A moment of friction’ political scientist Dr Paul Buchanan wrote how we are living within a decisive moment ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alison Taylor, Assistant Professor, Bond University Metro Goldwyn Mayer Pictures At the crux of the critical response to Luca Guadagnino’s new movie Challengers is one word: “sexy”. The film charts a love triangle between three up-and-coming tennis players: Tashi (Zendaya), ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jenny Stewart, Professor of Public Policy, ADFA Canberra, UNSW Sydney For years, First Nations people have been telling governments they want to be listened to. In particular, they want more ownership of the programs and services that are supposed to help them. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Why do trees have bark? Julien, age 6, Melbourne. This is a great question, Julien. We are so familiar with bark on trees, that most of us ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anthony Nasser, Senior Lecturer in Physiotherapy, University of Technology Sydney PeopleImages.com – Yuri A/Shutterstock The anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) is an important ligament in the knee. It runs from the thigh bone (femur) to the shin bone (tibia) and helps stabilise ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne I covered the May 2 United Kingdom local government elections for The Poll Bludger. The Blackpool South parliamentary byelection was also held, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Deanna Grant-Smith, Professor of Management, University of the Sunshine Coast The federal government has announced a “Commonwealth Prac Payment” to support selected groups of students doing mandatory work placements. Those who are studying to be a teacher, nurse, midwife or social ...
We round up everything coming to streaming services this week, including Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+, Apple TV+, ThreeNow, Neon and TVNZ+. If you love a dark comedy: Bodkin (Netflix, May 9)An English podcaster, an Irish podcaster and American podcaster walk into a pub and…make a TV show? ...
By Eleisha Foon, RNZ Pacific senior journalist A Pacific regionalism academic has called out New Zealand’s Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters for withholding information from the public on AUKUS and says the security deal “raises serious questions for the Pacific region”. Auckland University of Technology academic Dr Marco de Jong ...
How worried should we be about the cloud? This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. I currently have a few thousand unread emails languishing in my inbox, mostly old marketing newsletters and piles of unread science journal press releases. I have a similar number ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nuurrianti Jalli, Assistant Professor of Communication Studies College of Arts and Sciences Department of Languages, Literature, and Communication Studies, Northern State University Amid the COVID-19 pandemic, Southeast Asian governments not only have to deal with the virus but also with the false ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Murakami Wood, Professor of Critical Surveillance and Securities Studies, L’Université d’Ottawa/University of Ottawa The skyline of Riyadh, the capital and largest city of the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia.(Shutterstock) There is a long history of planned city building by both governments ...
The LIVE Recording of A View from Afar podcast will begin today at 12:45pm May 6, 2024 (NZST) which is Sunday evening, 8:30pm (USEST). In an analytical essay titled ‘A moment of friction’ political scientist Dr Paul Buchanan wrote how we are living within a decisive moment of ...
Great news for Cystic Fibrosis New Zealanders. Pharmac proposal to fund and make this wonder drug available from 1 April next year. Thankyou!!!
+100
Decades for a breakthrough to come.
Excellent news. Will. make a real difference to these peoples lives
How is your cough Anker?
Very kind of you to ask Patricia. Just been started on some anti biotics as Dr thinks I have a secondary infection. I am hoping this will do the trick.
And thanks to Anne's kind comments on another post. I couldn't respond, because there didn't seem to be a reply button. What you said Anne was very much appreciated.
There is a need for more of this.
One of the few ways we can reduce pressure on the lack of health sector capability is to improve the well-being of New Zealanders.
Every drug intervention that reduces demand on limited health (staff/equipment) resources is useful.
For years we skimped on such drug availability because of the cost to Pharmac while transferring the consequences to a health service that could not cope (and at far greater cost and worse health outcomes/loss of work capability). Madness.
And I should add some form of dental insurance would also reduce impact on the health system (lack of care has consequences for physiology).
CF is neither preventable not curable and affects a relatively small number of New Zealanders. Unless Pharmac resources (funding) is increased such watershed moments will be far between.
Ardern walking 3 Waters entrenchment without a legislative alternative is sick.
Just really poor policymaking let alone parliamentary procedure.
We used to have a party that built up strong public ownership.
If we're prepared to buy back Kiwibank we should centrally own water.
The only word in your comment I disagree with is “centrally” but yes, 100% agree. The question is how best one achieves keeping something so precious in public ownership for future generations. Many people seem to think that once you manage something you practically own it too. It becomes even more confusing when you throw in terms and concepts such as stewardship, governance, guardianship, and trustees (not necessarily only in the legal sense). The legal boffins who were very quick to judge the entrenchment shambles quickly run out of words and tools to suggest an alternative.
This is pretty dam silly IMO – I believe entrenching Public ownership of water would be a big vote winner those arguing against it would be open to being accused they want to sell it – An enormous vote loser IMO
Got no issue with yr point, the entrenchment bit is where the brown stuff can hit the cooling device.
With that precedent, what stops the tories from entrenching retirement at 67?
Every structural move this government has made is to recentralisation.
How Cabinet can get through 5 days without a legislative fix to announce is ridiculous.
Water is the only reform they've had to spend any real political capital on, and with 50 seats they've had plenty to spend.
Get A Fucking move on Labour.
Not exactly my words but definitely my sentiments.
Three Waters needs to get through before the House rises this year. Once it gets enacted, our (personal and parliamentary) long break follows and many things are forgotten or become less worrying after a break and time with friends and family.
Just tried to link to where I set out the sitting days until Christmas but search returns the word ‘nothing’
You are joking right?
Do you seriously think Act, National and NZ First will suddenly forget about this over the holiday period?
This issue will be hammered every day between now and the election
But it is hard getting traction with people over the break. Getting people all upset over the break does not work so that momentum is lost. Once the legislation is enacted any voices by the opposition become clanging symbols/empty vessels.
I did not say that he issue goes away but the ability to manufacture outrage is diminished by
I have no doubt that all those parties will fan/manufacture the fires of outrage but people lose interest.
Th election is more likely to be on issues such as the propensity of those parties to privatise anything that moves if they get to be in office. Their inability to support entrenchment against privatising to show that they will treat water as a public good may backfire.
I think you are dreaming if you think people will lose interest in 3 waters over the summer holidays.
Frankly, there is not much interest in the details of 3 Waters among the general public, from what I can tell.
Ask anyone, would they like clean drinking water and the answer is sure to be yes.
Ask them if they get their knickers in a twist about who owns the assets, and ten to one they'll shrug their shoulders.
The only ones who seem to be up in arms about 3 Waters are Act and National, for they see the assets as very saleable to their mates.
I agree with this.
It adds to my point that political parties trying to manufacture outrage over the break are on a 'hiding to nothing' as they say.
Yea, sure, you keep thinking that if it makes you feel comfortable.
I expect you will discover there is considerable interest when the bills arrive
Or when dirty or no water starts coming out of the taps.
Yes, I would imagine that would also invigorate interest
But a little too late to do much about it other than waiting for expensive repairs and/or other costly and often temporary ‘solutions’.
Assuming we have the wherewithal to make those improvements…especially when we deliberately make them more expensive than they need to be
Indeed, let’s stick with number 8 wire and black tape because that has served us so well i.e., if it ain’t broken yet keep your fingers crossed and your head in the sand for as long as possible. No need to borrow more and at much higher interest rates than currently.
Oh dear Incognito, you are getting desperate. No8 wire was not promoted (though it does have its uses)….ask yourself WHY we havnt provided the needed investment in our infrastructure these past decades?
We haven’t?? Where did my rates go to then? I’m sure it said that some of it went towards water servicing costs. When I’ll get home, I will check my latest rates invoice.
You and Robert should take a double act on the road
Water is a public good, AFAIK, and as such does not and should not be centralised/re-centralised, whatever you mean by that.
The Government is proposing to create 4 regional entities to manage the country’s current [three] water services; ownership remains with Councils and the likes; what the co-governance will look like is anybody’s guess at the moment. As such, there is no and should not be any talk of centralisation/re-centralisation in this context.
I completely and utterly agree with everything else you said.
Lew has suggested an alternative (not exactly what you are meaning, but one of the few to step up),
https://twitter.com/LewSOS/status/1599329697833549824
Way too late for discursive "fixes".
That's what you do before you have legislation that's gone through Select Committee and is gone through second reading. Then you put it up, get your MPs on radio and tv, etc.
What was needed today was a specific legislative text ready to go as a fresh SOP.
Agree Ad but it may (being optimistic) help in skewering opposition parties trying to nay say Three Waters and who clearly believe (by not supporting entrenchment clauses) in the ability to privatise.
But clear thoughts in readable articles over the break may help tamp down party driven public concern/educate the public.
not sure how you are using discursive there, but Lew's argument is that entrenchment shouldn't be used in this case, but protecting water from privatisation could be done via a GE/binding referendum. This is not dependent on three waters.
such as?
Lew is flat wrong. Parliament is sovereign in law making, particularly when you already have draft legislation before Parliament.
There is no way that throwing this mess out to "the people" would make anything clearer.
Lew has neither the Parliamentary procedure nor political nous that God gave geese.
The well is already poisoned. "The people" have had their perceptions irremediably tainted. The left need to take a lesson in how the right mount saturation propaganda campaigns through the organisations that naturally align with them.
you still no suggestion on what Labour could do instead.
Updating their CV's would be a good idea,if they double down for an additional 4%,problematic issues with multiple stories from the PM,and wilful misdirection on cause and effect.
https://twitter.com/winstonpeters/status/1599505680553373697
Winston is being as slippery as Teflon-John in a bucket of snot because Ardern didn’t use those exact words, did she? But hey, it’s SM (Twitter) and everybody knows what he means so it is pretty ok to twist the words a little to create one’s preferred narrative.
Well what words did she use?
What I saw and heard on the post cabinet press conference,was the PM and Hitchens saying they were unaware that the amended entrenchment was in until it had been passed.
Mahuta said it had been discussed at the labour caucus,can both arguments be correct?
It seems that Winston’s word is good enough for you and that you just lapped it up without fact-checking. Ardern never said those exact words, AFAIK, but what she did say is that the team takes one for the team and will fix it as a [united] team, i.e., without the scapegoating, finger-pointing, and public blaming & shaming that media and the opposition parties are so fond of – heads must roll – and Luxon is clearly like a bloodhound on that trail of irrelevancy. Perhaps that subtle difference is lost on you but surely not on that old fox Winston with his divisive tactics and rhetoric that suckered you in.
Perhaps you can find a recording with time stamp where Ardern used those exact words as asserted by Winston.
Anywho, this is not about what Mahuta said, but what Ardern said according to the Gospel of Peters, so please don’t divert.
PS who’s Hitchens? I thought he had died many years ago.
See links below,
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300756061/three-waters-booby-trap-goes-against-no-surprises-rule?dicbo=v2-363076daca4f8073dfed66b5ea9c805f
Are you confirming Winston’s tweeted Trumpian assertion? Or are you diverting away from that tweet that you posted before, like a tiny Trojan? It seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it.
You have failed to provide a time stamp but this most likely is because you cannot back up Winston’s claim.
I am not diverting from the tweet,the PM and the leader of the house stated they were unaware last monday ( that is a week ago see calenders they provide time lines eg a week = 7 days )
Peters is voicing what is widely reported,that they said they were unaware of the amendment.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130602209/the-constitutional-spat-over-a-lastminute-controversial-change-to-three-waters-bill?rm=a
Is “Peters is voicing” a euphemism for putting words into the PM’s mouth? If so, you seem quite ok with that. If not, where is his quote coming from, with time stamp, please?
You posted that Trumpian tweet, and you’ve been running away from it faster than Luxon flips burgers and does U-turns on statements.
No self-respecting TS commenter would willingly do the dirty work of and for Winston Peters.
Sorry do you not understand what has been reported from the press conference in the links provided,which include the segments from the PM.
Do you understand what aware is ? what would the statements mean
So Peters is suggesting that the PM was unaware (which the PM also stated as did the leader of the house)
I cannot see your argument for falsification,ill posed as it was, as any dictionary will show what unaware is.If you argument is different from my assumptions,( or the dictionary definitions) or the reported detail,maybe you should explain it more clearly,where there is an ambiguity.
And now you have changed it to “Peters is suggesting” 😀
No wonder you cannot provide a time stamp to support the fake quote by Peters that you spread all too happily.
We, or at least I, expect Peters’ rhetoric to be too unreliable to take at face value. It seems that your comments have reached the same standard of truthiness.
It was a live press conference,like the one this afternoon,where at 4.35 pm NZDST the PM mentioned the SOP in passing,and said we will not be focussing on an individual,the caucus has undertaken a collective responsibility (which includes retrenchment) similar to cabinet responsibilites.
The reporting of last weeks press conference has been shown in the available links across this thread of which you seem unaware of.
The alternative assumption that the PM was aware of what was being proposed in the SOP,seems to be what you are arguing for,which seems very strange,and a political landmine i would argue.
The argument is the PM was either aware of the reduced number in the SOP (for without reduction entrenchment was dead in the water) or unaware,without any other evidence I will take her and the leaders quoted answers,
Thank you but where is your link to the recording “like” the recording that I’ve been asking for since the cows left home?
And this was after the tweet by Peters! So, irrelevant.
I’m not aware of what the PM is or is not aware of.
However, I’m aware of Peter’s misleading tweet containing a fake quote that you wilfully linked to here on TS to spin a narrative of “wilful misdirection” on behalf of the PM.
The irony is that you have been obfuscating and diverting from your own contribution to and role in spreading Peter’s nefarious spin as if you are unaware of it: Peters this, Peters that, Peters whatever …
I think Peters will be mightily happy with your efforts here and I almost expect him to pop up here and like your comments.
The misdirection was saying that there was a probability of privatizing the water assets by the nat/act,when the only statements i have heard was a repeal of the legislation
Checks dictionary. Are you aware of the PM statements
So the PM was not aware of the reduced % of the entrenchment provisions and the leader of the house was not either (until after the event) as the SOP novel approach was introduced in real time.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130602209/the-constitutional-spat-over-a-lastminute-controversial-change-to-three-waters-bill?rm=a
https://www.facebook.com/jacindaardern/videos/live-post-cabinet-press-conference-28-november-2022/670087941446797/
Are you and Winston Peters aware of what the PM said and has not said? Peters seems happy enough to create his own narrative and you seem happy enough to spread it around as factual.
I’m sure you can correct this misdirection by a link with time stamp but you have not done so, which begs the questions what is stopping you and why are you spreading Peters’ BS assertions that belong on Twitter. (NB I love the blue check mark on Peters’ account, which shows it comes from the genuine spin-master)
Yes you are correct Incognito,Winston was using misdirection and I was mistaken,she must have known all along that the reduced % for retrenchment would be introduced by stealth (by means of an SPO) as it was discussed at caucus therefore full responsibility lies with the PM for unsignalled legislation under urgency,with all the constitutional problems it entailed.
BTW speaking of blue ticks,Apple just confirmed their advertising on twitter.
One of the problems with the dogmatic obsession of neoliberals on personal responsibility is the fixation on blaming, isolating, and punishing individuals for perceived misdemeanours and faux pas. Perhaps this is also the reason why neoliberals always stress [about] transparency and accountability, especially of civil servants, so that they can better aim & target individuals doing their job (and making mistakes).
Musk will be over the moon with Apple, if it is true what you say.
you're relying on Peters for your political information?
Actually I was using the PM and Hipkins when they stated that they were unaware of the novel use of an entrenchment provision.
It is also in the MSM,if you followed.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130660392/a-mistake-controversial-three-waters-entrenchment-clause-to-go
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300756061/three-waters-booby-trap-goes-against-no-surprises-rule?dicbo=v2-363076daca4f8073dfed66b5ea9c805f
it’s a big mess, and I’m not sure anyone knows what happened. Much of the discussion on SM and MSM has at times conflated the entrenchment itself with the %. I have stopped following because it’s crazy making. Let me know if you find a timeline though, that would be very useful.
No one should rely on Peters. But if you're looking for someone to encapsulate the zeitgeist – he's pretty much always bang on the money.
He's a past master of seeing a popular movement and nipping over to place himself at the head of it.
What he says – a heck of a lot of people are thinking…..
Ardern is coming across as evasive in her answers.
Lew is your classic very serious person, thinking he is a "moderate liberal" who is in fact almost entirely a neoliberal apologist. He demands elite debate be framed by norms of middle class politeness and dislikes the vulgar and disruptive nature of both the left and the right. Above all, he constantly gives the technocratic establishment the benefit of the doubt.
Labour needs to ask itself a simple political quesion – how many votes do pearl clutching centrists and legal academics command? Then once they’ve worked out they are onto a vote winner tell them all to fuck off, they are the government and they have decided to entrench the protection of water as a public asset. They can take their constitutional concerns over "fettering parliament" and shove it.
If they don't like it they can climb down from their ivory towers to join the opposition and campaign to repeal the entrenchment of public ownership of water.
Let's see how many votes telling the public they don't mind private corporations (even Maori ones!!!!) "fetterring parliament's ability to decide" once water has been privatised gets them.
The fundamental contradiction here is that:
There is some merit in having water assets owned by a hodge-podge of many local councils – it keeps control diffuse and difficult to sell. Sage's ill-fated entrenchment provision was an attempt to resolve this contradiction. Potentially a good idea, but constitutionally fatally flawed.
The compromise path left now is something like the Wellington Water model, when the regional organisation operates the asset and local councils still clearly own them. It is not ideal, but it is a way to square this particular circle.
The problem remains one where councils have debt ceilings and an inability to finance the required investment without significant rate increases.
Some (lack of ratepayers) councils cannot afford the upgrades at all and some urban councils have a lot of old infrastructure to upgrade all at once (and this is beyond debt ceiling capacity).
Each need government assistance – one the money, and the other bridging finance. There is also the issue of national planning as to scheduling because of capability constraints (skilled workers and interface with Treasury and RB as to economic activity levels).
And if that was not difficult enough, there is the issue of Maori water rights.
I agree. In other words a total mess of our own making; the past is holding the future hostage.
If you characterize the Centrist voters as "pearl clutching centriststs" – you've pretty definitively lost them. Bad news. Centrist voters decide elections.
Agree 100%
A labour party that was the voice of the people and wasn't filled with almost exclusively academics, neoliberal apologists and the over educated professional managerial class technocrats wouldn't back down to outraged academics and would realize that actually keeping water from being privatized is a vote winner and tell the ivory tower brigade to gtfo.
Unfortunately labours parliamentary wing is full to the brim with those same technocratic ivory tower voices , a labour party with more diversity of class would have come up with a far more populist and popular alternative to to protect water and water assets, three waters is the fever dream of the very academics and pmcs outraged by entrenchment because many of them probably want the water bundled up so it can be sold off in the first place.
Spot on Corey.
Access to polling probably hasn't helped in the courage department.
Whatever they do, e.g., binding or non-binding referendum, all paths lead through Parliament.
It may be a bit early to say that a strategic retreat is a mistake, take this to committee and whose the villain then? When National and Act don’t support Entrenchment then who is framed as wanting free reign to privatise water. This may well be the cleverest political move of the year.
Yes I thought so Adrian. It is "before the courts" so to speak. So many have decried it, I thought, perhaps I've misread.
It seems unlikely to be a clever political move (at least by Labour)- as both Ardern and Hipkins have come out saying that entrenchment was a "mistake" which will result in the bill being returned to committee to have the provision removed before it goes back to Parliament.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/480046/three-waters-government-announces-it-will-remove-entrenchment-clause-from-legislation
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/480101/ardern-on-government-s-u-turn-on-three-waters-entrenchment-we-are-taking-this-as-a-team
It may well be a clever political move by the Greens – who have placed their differences to Labour on this issue – front and centre with the electorate.
So Belladonna, do you think water should be a public good?
Patricia. Do you think that political parties should use entrenchment in areas other than constitutional ones (i.e. election law)?
The problem for Labour is that they've moved the debate from water reform to constitutional law – where they are on very shaky ground, indeed. Hence the rapid back-pedalling.
Pssst You didn't answer Patricia's question but countered with one of your own.
Here is the original question
Belladona will not answer.
We can assume the answer is no.
Yanno. Other people have a life – that doesn't involve being online 24/7.
See the answer above.
Oh, I'm happy to answer. It was just that the question had nothing to do with the actual substance of what was being discussed – Labour's backdown (and effectively admitting they were wrong) over the attempt to entrench something other than constitutional law.
No one has been discussing whether water should be a public good.
Typically, things which are regarded as 'public good' have no individual cost associated with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good_(economics)
That is not the case for water – I regularly pay water rates and usage charges for the privilege of having a clean and sanitary water supply (and since I live in Auckland, am getting a fairly good deal)
There are definitely associated benefits for part-payment for water usage (those areas which have this, have much lower overall usage of water per-household, than those areas for which it is rolled into the general rates).
If you are asking whether water-supply and infrastructure should be maintained in public ownership, yes, of course I think it should be. As does every political party in NZ. Talk about a straw man argument!
If you are asking if I agree with the establishment of a massive additional layer of bureaucracy, and removal of decision-making from the people who pay for it – then, no, I do not. I think water infrastructure should remain under the control of locally elected representatives.
One way of looking at this is that you are not so much paying for the water itself, but the provision and disposal of it in a safe and reliable manner.
Personally I think John Key had it right on this – that no-one owns water. Every single molecule migrates through vast, ceaseless hydrological cycles across the entire biosphere. It is no more realistic to allocate ownership title to water than it is to air.
The only reason why we even incorrectly think water might be ownable is that unlike air, it is transiently visible in locations like rivers, lakes and reservoirs.
The collection, delivery and disposal of safe reliable water is akin to someone filling a dive tank with compressed air – you are not buying title or ownership of the air, you are purchasing a specialised service that happens to deliver air in a clean compressed form.
The confusion arises when we a start to use pricing mechanisms to allocate scarce freshwater resources for agriculture or bottling. In this instance water is priced not in order to convey title, but to protect it from the tragedy of the commons and preserve it as a public good. A public good that is the concern of everyone – represented by the State.
Oh, I agree – that's why I specifically said paying for water supply.
Probably closer to the definition of a 'common good' than a 'public good'
As, certainly in times of drought, usage by one individual impacts on the ability of others to access water.
And, pricing impacts on usage. We've seen lots of evidence in NZ that areas which have water costs rolled into general rates – or even a separate water rate – have much higher individual usage, than those areas which meter water, and charge for water actually used by the household. IMHO – reducing water waste is a good outcome.
While I agree that no one 'owns' water – the management of the resource needs to be done at a 'commons' level. Where the Labour Party and I disagree is the governmental level at which that 'commons' should operate.
The majority of which is in the cost of capital to provide the facilities to provide it and especially to clean up before disposal. It is almost entirely overhead costs. Generally the direct production costs are all in handling the waste water. Which is why in Auckland the waste water processing charges are more than double the tap water charges.
One of the problems with agriculture as an industry is that they don’t handle waste water very well, and frequently they don’t handle it at all. It just flows away with extra phosphates, nitrates, eroded soil, sprays, etc in a true tragedy of the commons and becomes someone else pollution problem. Or it seeps into groundwater or aquifers.
Most (but not all) of the other industries and cities have had curbs on polluting for many decades. It isn’t perfect, but it is regulated and does a reasonable and improving job. Needs a lot more work. For instance the recent changes to the Waikato river plan – which look at best like they barely change the river health over the next 80 years. I’d expect that the river will keep worsening under its provisions.
What farmers proclaim as being “excessive regulation” is simply them being pulled to account for polluting land use.
Is untreated sewerage a public good? Because that is where the bulk of the capital investment required under 3 waters is going to go. It is also the vast majority of water treatment costs are incurred.
Should we close off your toilet and let its waste spread over your lawn? I’d expect that to be unpopular as well.
If you are asking whether water-supply and infrastructure should be maintained in public ownership, yes, of course I think it should be. As does every political party in NZ. Talk about a straw man argument!
FFS: Water infrastructure includes water supply. However it also includes treatment of sewage water and what it carries and the handling (and often treatment) of storm waters.
if you want to argue something then don’t pick the cheapest part of the whole water system (provision of palatable water) and promote that as being the only part of the system.
I had no intention of separating out water supply from waste water (and, indeed, my water bills/rates cover both) – that's why I said and infrastructure..
As I said in reply to RedLogix – I think water infrastructure is probably closer to the definition of a 'common good' than a 'public good'
It is a common good that has to be paid for. It isn't free infrastructure.
I don't really give a damn if it is paid for by taxes (3waters), rates (current), or users (current). That is all the same thing. The problem is that the level of payment into water infrastructure is completely inadequate in almost every region (apart from maybe Auckland and Christchurch). The skills to put it in and maintain it are scattered and diffuse. And over the whole of NZ it is going backwards at a rate of knots.
Common good is effectively what the 3 waters is about – paying for the infrastructure with taxpayers credit because it has been under-invested for decades. There is no freaking way that most councils are up to the task of doing it better.
So 'common good' is getting worse. What is your solution for doing it properly. Or are you just going to be just another mindless whinging critic who waves their hand in the air rather than doing the hard work of looking for viable solutions?
Depending on how far West you’re looking and what you’re looking for you may have come across properties with septic tanks. The more modern systems are quite advanced compared to the old gravity-based strain & drain systems in order to clean up the water before it goes onto your land.
Of course, the water standards are causing friction with
farmersother rural polluters too.There’s a good reason that Three Waters bundles these things together and is even considering the connection with and impact on coastal and geothermal waters too.
government assets should have a constitutionally entrenched 75% vote for sale of these assets.
I agree. Key would not have been able to enrich himself and others through asset sales. I see he is positioning himself for the next "Fire Sale." by taking a Directorship in an entity Act intend to sell off.
Evidence that Key enriched himself through asset sales?
If you have this, it would be a major scandal. IIRC, Key deliberately put his assets into a blind trust, so that he couldn't be accused of this kind of insider trading.
Good old Key, good old Watson, Fay & Richwhite etc. Top NZers with an eye to the main chance….oops too bad about the NZ assets. I wonder if they will still be around if NActs get in……perhaps they could work with The Treasury in an advisory capacity.
NB colossal & heavy sarc.
It wasn't completely blind, didn't Key blurt that he was going to make good on some investment? I forget the details. Media let him away with it, as usual.
His involvement in Mossack Fonseca and the Panama Papers scandal . The giving of Citizenship to Thiel by Nathan Guy (when he did not qualify.) The bottles of wine he gave to reporters.( from his "Blind Trust" winery. )The BBQs with some questionable characters. Sleaze really. He sold off a huge number of our assets and state houses. There is more…. but it won't sway you.
You, however, asserted that Key benefitted personally from this. I'm still waiting for the evidence….
Disliking someone's political actions – even feeling they are unethical – is one thing, accusing them of corruption is another.
The only politician for whom we have fairly open evidence of this is Winston Peters – substantial donations from the fishing industry followed by canning cameras on fishing boats; substantial donations from the racing industry followed by 'pretty horses' tax breaks.
I'm perfectly willing to be swayed by evidence – but you've yet to provide any.
Key's Parnell mansion was sold for around double its CV to mysterious foreign buyers.
He was part of an attack on the NZD that threatened a currency crisis.
His government manipulated the housing market to the benefit of shady interests.
And of course the Panama Papers stuff.
Plus, the rumours surrounding his decision to quit while in office.
So, apart from the sale of his house – IIRC at a time when most houses were selling in that area for well above CV – and after he exited from Government – it's all stuff that you disapprove of, rather than actual evidence that he benefitted personally from government policies.
Rumour and innuendo.
Given the keen interest in him, if there were anything to find, I'd think it would have been found, and well aired in the media, by now.
I don't deny that elements benefitted from the policies of his government (just as elements have benefitted from the policies of this government). I agree that you can make a case that some of the decisions his government made were …. less than optimal [I don't think that the Panama Papers incident casts a favourable light on Key]
But there is (apparently) no evidence that he was personally corrupt – and personally benefitted through government asset sales – which is what Patricia was alleging: "enrich himself and others through asset sales."
he just happened to benefit from all these convenient coincidences, but he is lily white
sorry, I don't buy it
cui bono
Indeed – look for the benefit.
But you still haven't established that there was any personal benefit to Key. Let alone any personal benefit from asset sales – which was Patricia's initial contention.
By all means, dislike his policies and the effects that you see on NZ society and economy from them – but accusing him of personal corruption (without evidence) seems to me to be a step too far.
That is the problem with white collar criminals.. they know how to use the system and cover their tracks.
Yes. And what's the betting that more than 75% of voters would happily entrench any law banning bottled water exports?
Too hard with all the different FT agreements?
How would NZ be punished?
Which of the usual earnest performers would trumpet specious excuses about Threats to Business?
Are we mice or lions?
I agree
government assets = public assets.
The PM has not helped move forward the Radio NZ/TVNZ merger by suggesting that RNZ might not survive if it did not go ahead. RNZ only needs continued government funding to do that and to suggest an inability to continue to afford such a limited radio network outside of a merger inspires little confidence as to more major problems facing New Zealand.
It seems the current strategy is to infer the merger is both a way to save money and yet also provide the basis for some enhanced effort at maintaining some cultural identity infrastructure.
Nor has it been helped by Willie Jackson in an utterly chaotic interview – where he was completely unable to articulate the benefits, and appeared to threaten editorial independence.
I know Jackson shoots from the lip – but it really doesn't help Ardern, when she has to step in to downplay concerns caused by poor communication (poor, at best) from one of her ministers
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130674385/pm-steps-in-after-concerns-raised-from-willie-jacksons-rnztvnz-merger-interview
Jackson was trying to say that a further fall back in TVNZ standards (as a public broadcaster) might see Jack Tame unleased into the reality TV world, rather than on politicians. It would have helped if there was some indication as to how the planned merger would prevent that.
Goodness knows what Jackson was trying to say. Absent a mind-reader, I think we will never know.
Has he been taking interview lessons from Winston Peters?
Well, I haven't seen any sign-boards yet….
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/peters-no-sign-fetches-10600/TLHTAQFCTPVELQNJAKI775GYWE/
RNZ news casts lately, sound more like party political broadcasts, on behalf of the National Party. day after day. imho.
All of NZ's mainstream media parrots the neoliberal mantra.
Many who run it, work there or contribute are right wing, so no surprise.
Meanwhile, Willie Jackson is lauding RNZ as the model that TVNZ needs to follow.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/damien-venuto-rnz-tvnz-merger-and-the-problem-with-willie-jacksons-comments/W52HZELSN3IWZJ5YBXJBFVBWFQ/
I am interested in thoughts around the real danger of applying an entrenchment clause for legislation intended to protect core resources or infrastructure. Based on historical evidence it appears to me that the current 51% needed to pass legislation is not a strong enough mandate in many situations: https://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2022/12/is-3-waters-entrenchment-really-stupid.html
If you support democracy then entrenchment should remain a constitutional tool…i.e. we require super majorities to protect the act of democracy.
It is dangerous to (and anti democratic) move super majorities into general legislation as it is an attempt to hobble future electorates.
Did you read my post that I linked to before responding?
No…my reasoning will be the same but I shall read it now.
I have read it and my opinion is only strengthened…the foolish notion that entrenchment will only ever be used for beneficial acts is delusional…especially when considering unintended consequences….nobody has a working crystal ball
So you are happy with a 51% mandate for decisions of major national interest that would be difficult to reverse?
Most of the organisations (unions etc) that I have been involved with would never consider 51% as a mandate for major change.
Why should we tolerate this for parliament?
Im happy (and demanding of) with a 50 % plus 1 acceptance of legislation in our Parliament…that allows future voters the reasonable opportunity to fix previous fuck ups
If the majority desire it we have agreed that is how we wish to run things.
Some "fuck ups" can be too hard to undo. How can another government easily reverse a sale of a state asset into overseas ownership?
You are aware of parliamentary sovereignty?
Parliament can renationalise assets within its borders should it deem it necessary/beneficial to do so.
I think that the requirement for 75% agreement for major change would have the effect of stifling all change. How realistic is it that any Government will muster that number to agree on anything – apart from the most anodyne legislation?
Even the current Labour government – with an unprecedented-in-MMP-times majority, and supported by the Green party – can only muster 60%. I would be very surprised to see any future government mustering anything like 60% of the House.
How far do you think they'd get with any of their major legislative changes (centralizing the Health Boards, 3 Waters, TVNZ/RNZ merger – to just name 3) – if they had to negotiate with National over the legislation? All of those 3 could certainly be argued to be 'major' changes.
Agree Pat
I thought I provided some sound arguments in my linked post, happy to respond to the substance.
You did David.
Those who don't want to respond are heavily in the camp of don't let's change what has gone before ie so entrenchment has traditionally been used for constitutional matters, oh heavens don't change a thing'
rather than saying/pondering
Accepting its traditional use is there a case to have it cover other public/common goods such as access to fresh water, disposal of human waste?
At least asking and answering the question. Democracy is great but it relies on people. Sick or dead people from polluted water etc doesn't seem such a good future for democracy. People who cannot afford to access water because of costs imposed by a possibly privatised water supply do not have democracy at the top of their minds, survival is more likely.
Why is the question at least not asked, explored etc? What is the danger of that?
You're arguing around in circles. Entrenching public ownership isn't going to guarantee access to affordable water supply, or that people won't get sick or die from polluted water. Whether or not water should be in public or private hands is a policy decision that elected governments should be able to make on the basis of their assessment of the best interests of the country. Just like 3Waters, merging RNZ and TVNZ and any other major policy decision.
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Series of huge, violent slams from the malevolently sadistic social housing neighbour on the other side of my 91 & 92 yo parents dividing-wall over a 2 hour period this afternoon & early evening. They’ve been forced to endure 5 years of this Nightmare.
And kept awake until 3am on Saturday night / Sunday morning with same violent, intimidatory behaviour + stereo at full volume with aggressive MoFo lyrics.
Thanks to the current Govt for their No Eviction policy … your core supporters really appreciate being thrown to the wolves … while you & your highly privileged Woke cadre devise ways to romanticise the wolves & reframe them as victims in order to enhance your in-group social prestige.
Cheers for the sadism towards very elderly people who've spent their lives self-sacrificing for others (incl election day activism for Labour over an almost 40 year period), cheers for the ruthless self-interest & rank cowardice, cheers for treating some of the most socially-minded, caring people like animals to be viciously used & abused.
You’re slowly but surely killing them through extreme stress & sleep deprivation.
Really sorry to hear the saga is ongoing and unresolved it's an absolute disgrace.
You need to get this behaviour on record.
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Cheers, Red.
My ancient smart phone (born 2012) proved absolutely useless … couldn't even remotely deal with the mongrel's violent slamming into the dividing wall / driving heavy objects with full force into both the floor & walls / highly aggressive haka-like stomping … too many decibels … just couldn't handle it.
To give you an idea of the level of noise (& the sheer degree of aggression & violence that went into it), I'll point to two aspects.
(1) My parents' long-standing neighbours across the road (who have given massive support, frequently rung the police & given testimonials about his behaviour at meetings with KO) live about 20 metres from the mongrel neighbour's unit … & in response to his extreme noise late at night & throughout the early hours they had their bedroom windows double-glazed last year. And yet, despite that, this violent anti-social's full-scale slamming inside through the early hours is so extreme that the neighbours across the road are frequently woken at 2, 3, 4am. So just imagine what it's like for my 91 / 92 yo parents just metres away from the sadistic prick on the other side of the (non-soundproof) dividing wall. And they have to live with all the swearing & threats through the wall as well.
(2) Late last year, my parents rang me around 2:30am during yet another major explosion of violent intimidation from this fuckhead (I was on chemo, of course), I arrived 25 mins later, parked my car in their driveway (at the other end of their house from the neighbouring unit) & before I even got out of the car I could hear what sounded like my parents house being demolished from the inside. Fucking HUGE violent constant slams. Like builders demolishing an old inner-city building from the inside.
Then I paid around $180 for an audio recorder with small external microphones that was advertised as being good … had high hopes that I'd finally be able to get the sheer magnitude of the prick's violence on to social media … because people will be absolutely bloody shocked if they heard it. It's one thing writing about it, but if people heard that visceral violence inflicted on very elderly people, I think it would develop into a real scandal.
But although the audio recorder was adequate for getting his aggressive rants outside their house throughout the early hours … swearing at the top of his voice & threatening violence … it was just as useless as the phone when it came to the violent explosions inside … rendered each huge slam etc as a kind of slow-motion hollow noise. Again, not sophisticated enough to deal with the decibels. So a waste of time & money in that regard.
But I do have a number of his early morning violent/threatening rants outside their house recorded. Here's just a little bit of a transcript of his rant from a couple of months ago that took place between 1:30-3am. It was aimed largely at me on this occasion … I arrived in the late evening to stay a night with them & he obviously noticed my car when he turned up after 1am … straight outside my parents' house, shouting lot's of threats of violence & wanting to fight me (haven't spoken to him since intitially confronting him in late 2018 after he started focussing his violence on my parents) … verbatim segement of transcript from around 2:30am:
"What the fuck !!! … what the fuck !!! …Come over here and I will smash metal right through your fucking head, cunt !!! … shut the fuck up !!! … I will fucking smash you cunt !!!"
On top of these recordings, I also have diary-like entries (pen on paper) for all of his violence, intimidation & the severe sleep deprivation forced on my parents … there's been so much of this behaviour that it runs to a very large number of pages … dates, times, full details (from my parents, from the neighbours & from my own witnessing of events), when the police or noise control have had to be called and so on. So there's a very rich source of info on his behaviour.
And yet still no consequences for the fucker.
Would you consider going to the media? No need to answer Swordfish.
There would be pros and cons obviously. The guy should be in prison .
I would have thought the Zoo appropriate, maybe it could learn some tricks for folks to watch on their visits
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Thanks for all your support, Anker … genuinely appreciate it.
Yeah, I've definitely considered it & did make an approach (albeit a fairly tentative one) that ultimately proved unsuccessful.
But I did have a productive on-going email conversation through Dec 2021 to Feb 2022 with a prominent senior lawyer who is looking at taking a class action against KO.
She's an absolute god-send to all the powerless victims of this on-going Scandal (essentially, scapegoats of the affluent virtue-signaling, self-interested Pakeha Woke Grandees & the bitter & twisted Poto Williams of this world … see how they care about the most violent, sadistic out-of-control members of the underclass from their safe middle-class enclaves many miles from the mayhem they've directly enabled … does that not demonstrate beyond doubt their "uniquely-refined moral sensibilities" for all the common soldiery to see ?).
Lawyer was shocked by the detailed overview I gave her – felt it was absolutely horrific, which it is – & encouraged me to consider speaking about the situation (anonymously) to either RNZ or Newstalk ZB as a way of publicising it & hopefully forcing some sort of resolution.
Was very tempted but, as I pointed out, I was on full chemo at the time (both infusion & tablets) and hence regularly experiencing "Chemo Fog" (which is a bit like trying to think when you've been deprived of sleep for 48 hours … a pretty common side-effect) … some rounds of chemo, I experienced little if any chemo fog but others I experienced a lot … and there was no telling when it was going to happen from one day to the next … no clear pattern … no way of predicting. So it would've been a disaster if I was scheduled to speak (possibly live ?) on radio on a particular day & time and happened to have that excessive mental tiredness on that day.
Given the circs, I felt going to the print media would've been better … providing a detailed overview (full dates, times, detail of all of his major explosions … although so much day-after-day violent & anti-social behaviour, so much severe sleep deprivation & stress for them over the last 5 years that it would've been difficult to encapsulate it in a very concise way … would’ve had to go for a very broad overview with just a handful of illustrative examples to keep it readable & concise).
But The Herald is probably the only realistic option … Stuff (& thus the local Dom Post) are so hopelessly, dogmatically Woke that I have doubts they'd even give a shite … would be at total odds with their core CRT narrative (reinforced by the ideological demands & profound editorial shaping of the Govt's public interest journalism fund).
After a Herald journo wrote of yet another KO neighbourhood scandal earlier this year, I did email him & link to my outline of my parent's situation on my blog … but unfortunately didn't hear back … he'd obviously moved on to other things.
So, real feeling of powerlessness.
But then again, as our resident Moral Exemplar – our very own Nelson Mandela / MLK impersonator – the admirably dogmatic Greenie activist Muttonbird – opined from his safe middle class redoubt at the foot of Mt Wellington …
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I should, incidentally, at this point publicly acknowledge & massively thank both Tom Hunter at Yes Minister & David Farrar at Kiwiblog.
Both gentlemen published blog posts on my parents' situation. And I greatly appreciate it.
Tom was the first to publish & provided great moral support & mentioned their situation in a series of comments on a number of blogs.
David Farrar didn't have to publish anything … there were plenty of Kainga Ora scandal stories breaking during that period … and given that just a few years earlier I'd published a post (read by almost 12k) that quite sarcastically criticised his (highly influential) polling analysis in the wake of the 2017 General Election … he could've quite happily ignored my parents' situation & still had plenty of ammunition against the Govt's social housing policy.
But he did post on it & thus made it far more widely known (in the process, significantly enlarging the readership of my own blog post on my parents' nightmare to well over 4k … it’s a big moral boost when you know there are thousands of people who know the details of what this fucker has done).
So I greatly appreciate both men's support & integrity, regardless of whether or not it upsets a few echo-chamber partisans here.
Yes it takes a lot of effort persisting with the media and even more with legal action. It must have felt almost impossible to comtemplate when you were going through chemo. An worry that you and your parents should not be dealing with particularly when you were unwell.
Our "caring" govt will be doing all it can to try and mop up any problematic stories in election year that don't fit the narrative of kindness. So it may be something that will have more impact in election year.
You may not be in the space to comtemplate any sort of action on your parents behalf right now. I did a quick search and found the following Stuff journalists had written on anti social tenants in Kainga Ora houses.
Amy Ridout 19/03/22
Lucy Xia 19/01/21
Jonathan Killick 25/06/22
I agree that Stuff are so hopelessly woke though. They are the pr machine for Woke ideology trying to impart right think to the masses.
RNZ – Raysa Almelda wrote on this. As did Bruce Edwards on The Democracy Project.
I think Sean Plunkett would be very interested in your story (or even Michael Laws who is on the Platform). However The Platform is dismissed and discredited by the left, so it may not have the desired effect politically.
Let me know if this is helpful and I will continue to search. I appreciate it may not be the right time for you.
I do remember now about the legal action. Is that still on-going?
I am very fortunate to live in a quiet neighbourhood and one of the things that I think would very seriously effect my quality of life would be an anti social neighbour moving in. That would be my worst nightmare. Having relative peace and quiet in your own home is just basic to good health and sanity.
That was also one of the reasons I had very little sympathy for the Wellington elite (not the people who lived in appartments across from parliament) when the protestors were there. Of course the bureacrats and politicians could retreat to their peaceful living situations and even work from home to avoid the "river of filth". It seemed yet more rank hypocracy from the PMC, who don't give a dam about Rotorua and all the other anti social tenants ruining peoples lives.
Keep posting with your descriptions of the PMC and the woke elites. I think some on this may not geniunely understand the threat that they present to the well being of our country, but a few of us do. I admire your ability with words.
Cheers now
Muttonbirds comments were seriously off. I would give him less than a day to put up with what your parents are going through and he would be squealing at the top of his lungs.
it sounds like gentrification by stealth. Put in unsuitable tenants in an area, let them wreck havoc until the good law abiding citizen give up and some government connected PPP developer comes along to buy up pennies to the dollars the houses from the people who have been terrorized by the state tenants.
I am sure that other people in the same cirucmstances have been told to' just sell and move'?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/11/homeowner-says-k-inga-ora-told-her-to-move-after-she-complained-about-disruptive-neighbours.html#:~:text=Housing-,Homeowner%20says%20K%C4%81inga%20Ora%20told%20her%20to,she%20complained%20about%20disruptive%20neighbours&text=An%20Auckland%20homeowner%20who%20says,a%20complaint%20to%20the%20Ombudsman.
Swordfish, I don't know what sort of support you have around you. I would be happy to help e.g letters to MPs, protest outside kainga Ora or donation of money for recording equipment or legal action.
I am not sure what of these options could work, but others on the site seem to have some good ideas.
Its an absolute outrage. My peace and quiet in my home is really important to me and it is hard for me to imagine how your parents have coped with this. Of course they shouldn't never have had to. Once this a…hole showed his true colours, very early on, that should have been it! Out. Gone. It is likely Kainga Ora knew before they placed him there there would be problems. B…tards. And then those PMC types banged on about the Parliamentary protest and how awlful it was for them having these people at their workplace.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/12/jacinda-ardern-says-parliament-protest-was-one-of-most-challenging-parts-of-year-she-worried-about-people-s-safety.html. And this from JA. But it falls on deaf ears for me
Just disgraceful that this atrocious behaviour by your parents neighbours wasn't stopped (via eviction) from the get go. No one should have to put up with this.
The guy is an ar….hole and so are the people who administer his tennancy and those above them who are likely very, very busy attending meetings and diversity and inclusion workshops and not worrying too much about the cost of living crisis because they are abundantly paid for this disgrace.
Swordfish this is terrible.
I am wondering if there could be a case for seeking injunctive relief, as a shot across the bows. The mere action of doing this may force some action. What I was thinking was whether there are public interest lawyers who would be able to draft something up pro bono. This could be served/lodged as a way to initiate action.
If there are costs I am sure that some of us would happily make a contribution according to our means. I would.
Other things, you've probably done these things
a) asking local MP to intervene, ask questions of the minister
b) picket KO offices
The issue in law pertains to legislation applying to landlord responsibility.
I am well aware of this.
The threat of injunctive relief/publicity does tend to focus the mind of those who it is against though.
Kind offer Shanreagh
There was an update on the definition of anti-social behaviour in 2021. (Previously, it seemed a direct threat to someone or their family had to be made – and captured on tape/video).
https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Tenancy/anti-social-behaviour-factsheet-a3.pdf
Do your parents have any other options for accommodation at this time? (I know this is not a solution, just thinking they might need respite from the horrendous situation).
It does raise the issue of landlord responsibility – generally those over 65 and families should expect a certain level of safety in their housing arrangements.
Kind offer Shanreagh