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Open mike 05/09/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 5th, 2015 - 58 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

58 comments on “Open mike 05/09/2015 ”

  1. sabine 1

    I am right and you are wrong.

    a good clip from danmark on the state of journalism.
    don’t worries, there are subtitles.

    Fearmongering is replacing journalism, and this man does not stand for it.

    • ianmac 1.1

      Take that Mr Media! And our media leads the news with all the crime and tragedies. Effect?

      • ankerawshark 1.1.1

        Or bias items as on TV One last night when they reported the protest at parliament about responding and increasing the refugee quota. Completely ommitted the point the protesters were making that John Key’s mother was a refugee fleeing Nazi
        Germany, but despite this he is so so callous he can’t offer the same opportunity to others in a terrible plight. Its a shame TV NZ didn’t mention that because I think this sums JK up perfectly.

        • Anne

          They are all avoiding mention of that fact ankerawshark because it shows their beloved John Key in a very bad light!

  2. save NZ 2

    Chinese eye $100m chunk of Silver Fern

    Ownership of at least 30 to 40 per cent of New Zealand’s biggest meat processor, Silver Fern Farms, looks set to pass to Chinese interests in a $100-million deal, say sources.

    They said an announcement was due next week, possibly as soon as Monday.

    Silver Fern last year enlisted the services of Goldman Sachs to advise on its options as it looked at raising $100 million to retire debt.

    The company, which is a “hybrid” cooperative owned by farmers and outside shareholders, has been holding meetings with farmers on the condition that they sign confidentiality agreements.

    The company has already made big inroads into its debt.

    “They [Silver Fern] are going to be as strong as any other company in the industry, so why put the ownership of the company at risk?” said Richardson. “That discussion [with Alliance] needed to take place – unfortunately it has not.”

    Richardson said the transaction would have ramifications for Alliance and all the other meat companies.

    Silver Fern and Invercargill’s Alliance Group are together responsible for processing just over half New Zealand’s meat production.

    • Weepus beard 2.1

      Silver Fern owned by the Chinese, eh?

      How ironic that we are about to have our flag changed for us to a Silver Fern. What a sharp illustration of today’s New Keyland.

      • save NZ 2.1.1

        The National government should change our silver fern to red.

        Personally whether it is the Chinese, Koreans, Australians, Canadians or whoever, Kiwis are fast becoming tenants and future serfs of our own country by selling off cheaply our land and businesses.

        Because of low wages, poor financial management of executives, cronyism within those executives, Government strategic direction of privatisation, Kiwis are unable to compete with the vast wealth of overseas buyers.

        Like the 1980’s which most Kiwis know was a big mistake and a few individuals got extremely rich while the country got poorer, this is even worse times.

        Now they are also hell bent on destroying the heart of rural NZ, farms and exports.

        Under TPPA and associated agreements the public sector.

        • miravox

          It’s all right. The Prime Minister has got your back…

          Prime Minister John Key says he doesn’t want New Zealanders to become tenants in their own country as foreign companies seek to buy up farms, and the Government may look at law changes.

          …. oops that was 2010 He’s managed to sort his ethical hiccup since then.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Personally whether it is the Chinese, Koreans, Australians, Canadians or whoever, Kiwis are fast becoming tenants and future serfs of our own country by selling off cheaply our land and businesses.

          And John Key’s here to help facilitate that. It’s the inevitable end result of capitalism.

          Like the 1980’s which most Kiwis know was a big mistake and a few individuals got extremely rich while the country got poorer, this is even worse times.

          IMO, a lot of us who lived through those times recognise that Nationals policies are a continuation of the 1980s. Even the 5th Labour government was. And, yeah, we’re becoming worse off because of it.

  3. Draco T Bastard 3

    The essence of creativity

    Creative people are also usually working in a field they love. They are generally more motivated by a love of what they do, rather than money.

    Which is, IMO, how uncreative people become rich while the creative people remain poor. The rich exploit other peoples desire to do and be creative to increase their own wealth while themselves not anything of any real value.

    • Pasupial 3.1


      I keep getting a; cannot find BBC server, message when I try the above link (actually, even when I google BBC too).

      But yeah, I have to agree with your conclusion – particularly within the music industry. That said, some rich people got that way by being very creative with their accounting and use of tax-havens.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

        I keep getting a; cannot find BBC server, message when I try the above link (actually, even when I google BBC too).

        Weird, works for me.

        Try This one which appears to be the shortest version that I can get working.

  4. North 4

    NZ the turn of the century – the visible grandees of the National Party IMPORTED the foreign bankster The Ponce Key for THE PURPOSE of winning and retaining POWER.

    Not missing a bankster beat The Ponce Key set about THE PURPOSE under the seductive cover of “Key Aura….fancy a beer ?”

    NZ 15 years on – THE PURPOSE well achieved dues are to be paid.

    NZ now – EXPORTED.

  5. greywarshark 5

    Ants – something we will have to develop defences against. I did some looking up on Argentinian ants and anteaters. I was wondering if they would be useful in control of these ants. What is the anteaters preference?

    I have found that there is another ant the Stinging Needle Ant that is worse than Argentinian ants and is taking over their territory. It also eats other ants and stings people. The USA haven’t done a good job of keeping track of this invader, long in the country, and in the recent decade it has exploded in numbers. People haven’t known anything about them till recently.

    This 2013 report gives details. We have in Nelson Argentinian ants and they are very hard to control. They probably are most likely to come in through ports. We need to be looking out for these other blighters. Because they will blight our lives when they come.

    Then there is the ‘crazy ant’ named in the USA the Tawny Crazy Ant. That has overtaken the fire ant in some places. They will also overtake the Argentinian ant. The list of incursions of ants from the south into the USA is sobering. We have to be aware of the power of ants and ways of controlling and managing them when they come to our shores and climate change gives them breeding boosts.

    The Tawny crazy ant invasion is the most recent in a series of ant invasions from South America brought on by human movement. The Argentine ant invaded through the port of New Orleans in about 1891. In 1918 the black imported fire ant showed up in Mobile, Ala. Then in the 1930s, the red imported fire ant arrived in the U.S. and began displacing the black fire ant and the Argentine ants…

    LeBrun said crazy ants are much harder to control than fire ants. They don’t consume most of the poison baits that kill fire ant mounds, and they don’t have the same kinds of colony boundaries that fire ants do. That means that even if they’re killed in a certain area, the supercolony survives and can swarm back over the area.
    “They don’t sting like fire ants do, but aside from that they are much bigger pests,” he said. “There are videos on YouTube of people sweeping out dustpans full of these ants from their bathroom. You have to call pest control operators every three or four months just to keep the infestation under control. It’s very expensive.”

  6. greywarshark 7

    There is something called Time Banking that an interviewee is discussing with Kim Hill that sounds interesting and would be worth a listen but I have to do things while there is some sun outside. So will catch up on it later and here’s the link for others curious and interested.

    9.35 Edgar Cahn: time banking
    Professor Edgar S. Cahn was former counsel and speech writer to Robert F. Kennedy, and is a legal professor at the University of the District of Columbia. He is best known as the originator of time banking, a way to value the contributions that people make to rebuilding community and to ‘co-producing’ public services. He spoke on 3 September in Christchurch as a guest of the Lyttelton Harbour TimeBank, which is celebrating its tenth anniversary.

    Audio not yet up.

    • weka 7.1

      Lyttelton is one of the first timebanks in NZ. The key thing about timebanks that’s different from alternative money systems is that everyone’s skills and time are valued equally. The unit of exchange is time (usually an hour, but can be broken down into smaller blocks), and a lawyers time is worth exactly the same as a gardeners, 1 hour = 1 hour.

      You don’t swap directly, but instead pay into or withdraw from bank accounts. If I do an hours gardening for you, then you pay 1 hour from your account into mine. If you then do 3 hours lawyering for someone else, you pay 3 hours into their account. Simple and sweet.

      Lyttelton Timebank http://www.lyttelton.net.nz/timebank

      If we lived in a sane society, timebanking would have been set up decades ago in response to rising unemployment rates.

      • greywarshark 7.1.1

        Thanks weka
        Timebanking. This is the link for Radionz time bank interview

        It sounds like Green $ which I have been involved in. I found that had certain problems so time banking might be more straightforward. It is as you say a needed practice. I want to see volunteer work of an agreed type to be regarded as equivalent to some paid work. Labour has done this in the past. That can then apply to young people, and also those below retirement age, which shouldn’t be raised by the way! It would take pressure off the young and allow more flexibility in their lives and training, and work experience.

        I hope too that soon governments will require all able retired, and even some of the differently-abled to do a few hours at least, working for the community in some capacity agreed with the government. I am sure that retired people are going to have to advocate for themselves as the pension cost (superannuation) gets more expensive and we use more of the health budget. We can put work into the community that provides us with most or all of our living expenses, and feel justified in saying we are contributing to society, not just expensive dependents, sighed about by economists as an unsustainable burden. Which is what is happening! And the present approach is truly unsustainable.

        The answer to retirement living costs will never be that to solve it people need to save for their retirement. You cannot save enough to enable yourself to live for a third of your life on your investments. And savings in investments can be lost completely when companies go down, fraudsters use your money for risk-taking, high-living etc. It is inevitable that a lot of money sitting unused and meant to be accumulating, will tempt people in our present money-mad society with lack of morals. Having money today is all that many people aim for, all they respect, being a person of integrity doesn’t stack up.

        How can we retired justify ourselves being kept on what is an extended holiday, for as much as a third of our life. We are getting to be like the cuckoos who lay their eggs mainly in greywarblers nests. (A fascinating study of how this practice has evolved and carried out on Radionz recently.)

        Superannuation (old age pension) expense is measured and it is rising. It is argued that sentimentality towards older people should ensure it is maintained, as sweet gratitude for all we have done in society before retirement. That’s very sentimental, not appropriate on being deserving because our pension system doesn’t discriminate as to past behaviour and morals but is universal, and it is unrealistic. Gratitude is nice but actual money and services for living are needed.

        I can’t understand how mature people can continue to set themselves up as exceptional to be recipients of benefits, but ignore the plight of the young. We hear the statistics about growing numbers, and constantly more reaching 100, though the risk of alzheimers gets very high after 80, yet the response is to just to give donations to the alzheimer trust.

        Even with a system of required volunteer work, there will be a huge cost, but the value of the work may be such that the economy can bear the cost and thrive. But there needs to be urgent action. The tide of refugees overseas is overwhelming the systems requiring thought and action. There is a tide of retired people coming through and our pollies are trying to surf on the tops of the political morass just keeping their balance and distance from dealing with the reality waiting underneath.

    • Ant 7.2

      As a member of the Hurunui TimeBank for several years I offered surfing lessons, bread baking, scissors and knife sharpening. In turn I had sewing done, gardening, and take-away meals.

      Great for retirees in a community. They have many skills and time available for trading across all groups.

    • The Chairman 8.1

      Get it right, Joe90

      I didn’t promote or support anti choice terrorists.

      I highlighted publicly available information countering certain comments made.

      Abby Johnson is not a terrorist and the CMP is not a terrorist organization.

      Therefore, I expect you to withdraw your slanderous comment and apologize forthwith.

      Moderators take note.

  7. Michael Nolan 9

    Not sure if this has ever been discussed here before, but wouldn’t it be great if there was an ability to like/dislike, or rate comments on The Standard? Some people make incredible individual contributions in the comments section. Sometimes it feels like it would be great to be able to give those comments a ‘like’.

    • r0b 9.1


      There is an ad hoc system of “+1” replies like the above. I’m not a big fan of them myself (above is only an example) – but it can be done.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1

        The +1 does have the advantage over the likes/dislikes in that it can actually draw peoples attention to the comment through the latest comment list on the right and as a space on the page while scrolling down.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.2

      They’ve been tried a couple of times in the history of The Standard.

    • lprent 9.3

      When I last tried it about 5 years ago my conclusion was that led to way too much into in-crowd bullying practices. People routinely voted up the people that they liked and down the people that they didn’t like, without bothering too much about the value of the arguments. That violated our policy of promoting “robust debate”.

      I suspect that the best approach would be to only allow a very limited number of approvals ONLY. Say 10 per week. Then at least it’d make people think before granting vote up.

      However we run this site without any requirement to login at all and for people to be able to have multiple handles over time (if and only if they don’t abuse or game the process). The reason for allowing completely open access to writing comments is to both allow people to reinvent themselves (an important part of growing up in net cultures), and to drop as many barriers to entry as possible – as in we don’t even require a valid email – we just demand that the handle + ’email’ secret combination are unique.

      The barriers are all at the behavioural side. If you behave badly then you get that very unsubtle and often highly educational net exit…

      So what would we limit the votes against? A probably fictional email address? A dynamically changing IP address? What about the people who don’t comment at all, but who’d probably like to vote on comments?

      There is a further consideration – which is site efficiency. Obviously you don’t want people to do more than one tick per comment. That means that you have to store details about whoever has already done a tick as a record per person, and to keep track of the number of ticks. That is hugely expensive because it means that each page of comments now either has to be unique to each user by embedding information in page about what comments that they have done, or by each tick requiring a backend lookup via jquery or the like. Either way requires extra SQL and CPU loadings.

      Plus I haven’t seen a plugin package that actually does these things all that efficiently. The two packages I have used in the past caused about a 15-25% increase in site load.

      So now with all of the costs involved – does the return to the *site* outweigh those penalties? Or could those costs be used for something more productive?

      • Michael Nolan 9.3.1

        Fair enough. Thanks for the details response LPrent. I didn’t realise the effort or costs involved. +1’s it is 🙂

      • Anne 9.3.2

        When I last tried it about 5 years ago my conclusion was that led to way too much into in-crowd bullying practices. People routinely voted up the people that they liked and down the people that they didn’t like, without bothering too much about the value of the arguments.

        Fully agree. Open to pack bullying in my view and could put new ‘commenters’ off from joining in the conversations.

      • maui 9.3.3

        I have to say the way commenting has been made easy and streamlined on this site must be in large part why it’s the site is a success. If it wasn’t so good I think it would also reduce the amount of rwingers commenting on here aswell. I often struggle reading through the posts that get 300+ comments! So it must be working.

    • Muttonbird 9.4

      Pictures might liven the place up a bit too.

  8. freedom 11

    The names of prominent people could be used more oftenhttp://thestandard.org.nz/red-peak/#comment-1067158

    They really could couldn’t they greywarshark!

    The Acme Corporation, in association with Stand Your Ground Funeral Services and The Spike Milligan Appreciation Society
    are proud to present this user friendly (& open to contributions)
    -indexed in alphabetical order

    Ardern Road
    Plenty of clear and open outlooks, because seeing where you are, matters

    Bennet Grove
    The access road is restricted: pre-approved vendors only. Also has a dank run off from the nearby glue factory

    Brownlee Esplanade
    A parallel circuit route with impressive dual carriageway options, and multiple off ramps each of which exit onto side-streets leading away from any practical destination

    Campbell Bay
    The sun seems brighter here, or is it the absence of dark windows?

    Coleman Crescent
    Yes the consents are lovely! But where are the houses?

    Eade Lake
    Home of the National Masonry Block Emporium and produces vast quantities of Never-Float Sacking

    English Avenue
    The QS never quite made sense but they went ahead anyway

    Groser Acres
    All the Malls you could ever want, but residents are unable to purchase local produce due to TPPA ISDS Resolution NZP#8-2-a/sff>nz/-neg. Government seem reluctant to intervene

    Henry Place
    Oddly reminiscent of a vaudeville promenade

    Hooton Lane
    Where the poplars are trained to hide the sun

    Hosking’s Court
    A gated paradise with GE Peacocks that shift tone with the weather

    Little Street
    Sure, things get rowdy now and again, but when you need a hand they’ll offer two

    Peter’s Point
    The squirrelly tracks often require 3 point turns but it beats buying a monorail

    Steven Joyce Square
    *warning* You will be assimilated

    The John Key Memorial Boulevard –
    3rd lane on the left in the staff car park at BOA Headquarters

    Turei Heights
    Precipice defying earth works with foundations set deep into stable bedrock

    Seymour Bridge
    A low weight but nonetheless essential private carriageway *No heavy traffic!*

    Slater Alley
    Much publicised expansion of all services appears to have been suspended

    Tolley Terrace
    For some reason the street signs are stamped by Serco

    Watkins Way
    For Sale signs are proudly displayed on all property

    • freedom 11.1

      EDIT NOTE:

      “Coleman Crescent” is obviously meant to be “Smith Crescent”
      and there are a couple of blatant issues with the ‘indexed alphabetically’ aspect.
      – I was unable to edit over the weekend due to technical issues and did send an email requesting assistance … but such is life eh!

      Won’t be around for awhile. Be excellent to each other Standardista’s

  9. Barbara 12

    Re the flag – I cannot believe this, my partner gets the magazine “Air Force News” and the latest features an article entitled “Royal Appointment for the RNZAF.”

    “Her Majesty 11 has approved the appointment of Prince Charles to three honorary positions in the NZDF, the Government has announced”. It then proceeds to say they are Marshal of the RNZAF, Admiral of the Fleet of the RNZN and Field Marshal, NZ Army.

    Just when Key is trying to get rid of the Union Flag on our NZ Flag these appointments have been okayed. John Key then goes on to say “These appointments recognise the consistent and strong support Prince Charles has maintained for the New Zealand Defence Force”.

    Well, he certainly wants a bob both ways – lovely jubbly when the Birthday honours and knighthoods come around, especially for him one day and dinners and holidays with the Queen. It reeks of hypocrisy – I wonder if he has even approached the Queen about removing the Union Flag from the NZ flag and surely the Governor General would have been the correct person to make this announcement and not the Government?

    Has anyone seen anything about this in MSM – or has it been put on the back burner for the time being because of the flag furore – wouldn’t surprise me one little bit.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      Key, like all National supporters, is an outright authoritarian and thus fully supports the monarchy. In fact, I doubt if he can even image a different system than a top down dictatorial model. This is why Canterbury lost their democracy in ECan, why National comes out with the BS of having a mandate whenever they’re called on their decisions which most people oppose and why this government will do nothing to advance us to becoming a republic (in fact they’ve done the exact opposite in their re-establishment of the Queens Honours and now this ‘recognition’ of Prince Charles).

    • GregJ 12.2

      Winston Peter’s pointed it out a few days ago (and Key’s fondness for all things monarchial even if he wants to remove the Union Jack from the NZ flag).

      It was officially announced but probably disappeared in among other news. The Prince of Wales is visiting NZ in November.

      The Queen appointed him to 5-star ranks in all of the UK Armed Forces in 2012 so I imagine he will receive similar appointments in other Commonwealth countries as he visits them. Prince Philip holds the same NZ ranks (Admiral of the Fleet of the RNZN in 1958, the other 2 in 1977 during the Silver Jubilee Year).

      • GregJ 12.2.1

        As an aside Queen Elizabeth II will pass Queen Victoria as the UK’s longest reigning monarch on 9th/10th September.

        Expect Gun Salutes and probably more Key sycophancy! 👿

  10. Draco T Bastard 13

    Something for the home handyman to build:

    A drone enthusiast has built a home-made helicopter from the parts of 54 unmanned aerial vehicles and posted footage of his test flight online.

    YouTube user gasturbine101 has invented a flyable personal helicopter he calls The Swarm Manned Aerial Vehicle Multirotor Super Drone.

    The Swarm features a garden chair on a sleigh-like frame with an umbrella over the head of the pilot for protection.

    His control seems – rudimentary at best.

    • greywarshark 13.1

      Well built for backyard drone.

      I wonder what airspace does one own above one’s own property? Can one shoot down drones or disable them, collect them and claim them as one’s personal property and then build one’s interesting transporter from the parts.

      Didn’t someone turn their pressure hose on one recently. Personally I have little enough private space from my neighbours and passers-by, I would be very aggrieved to have some nosy noisy passing over my property.

      K Rowling wrote about flies on the wall recording information for the right-wing authorities. That was one scary outfit, and perhaps with methods not too far distant from our own, in the near future.

    • Bill 13.2

      Love how he appears to be doing his test flight in slippers and ankle socks. 🙂

      Don’t quite get the camera guy shouting “Paul! Paul! Be careful!” Bollocks to that….GO FOR IT PAUL! GO, GO, GO! (Maybe just as well I wasn’t there?)

  11. Tautoko Mangō Mata 14

    TPPA and copyright issues.
    “More Experts Realizing That The TPP Is A Horrible And Dangerous Deal On Copyright”
    He (David Post) focuses on the issue of orphan works, which are works where the owner can’t be found. As we’ve discussed in the past, the entire “problem” of orphan works is really a problem created by the automatic application of copyright, rather than requiring registration (“formalities.”) By automatically having copyright cover everything, there is no way to easily track down many copyright holders for the purpose of licensing. The Copyright Office has been struggling for years on how to deal with this issue (never apparently willing to explore the issue of returning to a registration requirement). However, as we noted earlier this year, under the current draft of the TPP, the Copyright Office’s own proposal on orphan works would not be allowed.

    Post digs deeper on that issue, and highlights why the TPP would kill any realistic reform to deal with orphan works:……

  12. swordfish 15

    New Opinium Poll suggests Corbyn has increased his lead over Burnham among both Labour voters and the wider UK Electorate.

    From an 8 point lead (mid-Aug) to a 12 point lead (late-Aug) among Labour supporters.

    And from a 5 point lead to an 8 point lead among British voters as a whole.

  13. Brendan 16

    I’ve penned an editorial to try make sense of this week’s bizarre political circus. I’ve even coined new terminology: The Rugby-Industrial Complex. This week has really been the angry cynical culmination of my hatred of this stupid third-term National government.

    Check it out: http://potentialhumanist.blogspot.co.nz/2015/09/refugees-referenda-and-rugby-industrial.html

    • Chooky 16.1

      +100..good read…for some reason I keep thinking Black Shirts

    • Clemgeopin 16.2

      +1 Well said!

    • seeker 16.3

      “money talks and morals walk”

      Excellent description of the apparent motivators of this ghastly government Brendan
      This is what will turn us into New Keyland rather than New Zealand if we are not careful; and what a dark,unpleasant place to live that could be for us and our children! And it already is for far too many.

  14. Chooky 17

    Everything you would rather not know about so called SMART Meters ….and why you must say NO!


    with implications for corporate control and TPPA…and stiffling of alternative sources of energy/inventions/patents

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