Open mike 06/09/2011

99 comments on “Open mike 06/09/2011 ”

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1. rosy 1

   6 September 2011 at 7:55 am

   It’s Labor Day in the U.S. and a book has been published about Joe Hill – The Man Who Never Died, by William Adler. I think it’s going to be a must read.

   Joe Hill – the migrant labourer, an anarchist and union man in the U.S. He was executed in 1915 for a murder he didn’t commit. He appeared to accept the execution would do more for the cause of the working poor than if he’d lived – told his friends don’t mourn for me – organise!” Amazing story

   Joe, a Swedish immigrant and wandering troubadour-troublemaker, was a “Wobbly”, an agitating member of the One Big Union, the red flag International Workers of the World, a harum-scarum, mad-as-hell, happy-in-fellowship bunch of hoboes and gypsy workingmen who scared the pants off business leaders, pious church-goers, police chiefs, governors and all right-thinking citizens in the early part of the last century.

   I knew the song, as sung by Joan Baez but never knew his story or that of the International Workers of the World. A bit of history here
   • Colonial Viper 1.1

     6 September 2011 at 8:11 am

     Yes Labor Day in the US. And a few people in the MSM are just starting to realise how shit it has been over there, and how the outlook is even worse for the US.

     immortal words:

     “Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”

     I suppose an attitude like that is why Abe Lincoln got shot.

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/labor-day-blues/2011/09/04/gIQAr8fb2J_story.html?hpid=z2

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fallacy-of-post-industrial-prosperity/2011/09/04/gIQAk4Ob2J_story.html?hpid=z2

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/achenblog?hpid=z2

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-last-labor-day/2011/09/04/gIQA11Ob2J_story.html?hpid=z2

     immortal words:

     “Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”

     I suppose an attitude like that is why Abe Lincoln got shot.
     • rosy 1.1.1

       6 September 2011 at 8:58 am

       When 37% of all consumer purchases are made by the top 5% income earners it’s quite clear that (1) workers are losing and (2) inequality is killing the economy.

       The same warnings on inequality are written in different ways , but surely even the money people should be able to work this one out… spread the money around a bit and everyone will do better, yeah?
     • mikesh 1.1.2

       6 September 2011 at 9:08 am

       I am inclined to think Lincoln was shot because his use of greenbacks during the civil war, and because of his apparent intention to continue their use after the war. Still I’m only guessing.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.1

         6 September 2011 at 9:57 am

         Probably both – they attack the private banking system.
   • anarcho 1.2

     6 September 2011 at 12:45 pm

     If you’re a fan…

     Rebel Press of Wellington have just released ‘Remains to be Seen: tracing Joe Hills Ashes in New Zealand’ – available as a book or free PDF
   • swordfish 1.3

     6 September 2011 at 3:49 pm

     Yeah Rosy, I’m pretty sure the Wobblies exerted a profound influence on early New Zealand Red Fed (and, later, Labour Party) leaders like “Fighting” Bob Semple, Paddy Webb and, perhaps above all, the brilliant (but, unlike the others, never-elected-to-Parliament) Pat Hickey. Hickey had worked for a few years (around 1904-1906) in a mine in Utah, where he was a member of the Western Federation of Miners, which preached class solidarity and revolutionary industrial unionism.
2. RedLogix 2

   6 September 2011 at 8:16 am

   Interesting whistle-blowing going on around the SCF debacle.

   Heads should roll, and given the PM’s unequivocal backing of what is now shown to be a wrong-headed and malicious investigation… he too needs to take some responsibility.

   But of course responsibility is an unknown concept to these tory pricks.
   • ianmac 2.1

     6 September 2011 at 9:21 am

     Well spotted Red. There have been consistent concerns about the process used by the “system”. Surely the “experts” couldn’t have been wrong?
   • tc 2.2

     6 September 2011 at 9:22 am

     How about we got back a few steps and get an inquiry as to why SCF was in the scheme against tresaury advice, blinglish and Key ushered them in as soon as they could, further warnings by treasury were ignored and the payout was at 100% plus interest.
     How many other finance company investors were afforded such a risk free outcome ?
   • Treetop 2.3

     6 September 2011 at 1:29 pm

     Natural justice is certainly lacking when it comes to Allan Hubbard. Hubbard has one of the cleanest track records in NZ when it comes to business. I hope that someone carries the torch for him, as the last 15 months of his life was devoted to amassing the evidence to prove he was not corrupt and also to find out who was behind his departure at Aorangi and how they went about it.
   • mik e 2.4

     6 September 2011 at 4:43 pm

     RL Treasury warned John Key And Blingenglish that SCF were breaking the covenants of their contract John Key said we will keep backing them . Key has some answering to do.
3. Joe Bloggs 3

   6 September 2011 at 9:07 am

   The findings of an investigator who works at no cost for the supporters of Allan Hubbard are not particularly independent.

   it’s like citing a post from The Standard as evidence to support a post on The Standard.

   When a genuinely independent review finds fault in the Companies Office, the Securities Commission and the statutory managers, and that independent review stands up to scrutiny, then I’ll take notice.

   Until then your call for heads to roll is irresponsible.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     6 September 2011 at 10:15 am

     it’s like citing a post from The Standard as evidence to support a post on The Standard.

     That doesn’t make any sense Joe (Not that I’m surprised by a RWNJ not making sense). Using evidence to support what you say is usually a good practice. Researchers do it all the time.

     When a genuinely independent review finds fault in the Companies Office…

     There’s no such thing. The only people who are going to investigate are the people are the people with an interest in the outcome. Now, it could be that this investigation is but that would be up to the reviewers to determine.
   • Treetop 3.2

     6 September 2011 at 1:52 pm

     Last Sunday on Sunday TV 1 at 7.30 pm there was a good example of how devious witnesses can be. I am refering to Mahon who headed the Erebus Inquiry and how Mahon’s comment “an orchestrated litany of lies” was directed at Air New Zealand (Davis, Chippendale…). The Privy Council ruled that Mahon’s conclusion was correct when it came to the cause of the loss of 257 lives, but when it came to Air New Zealand being held accountable, the Privy Council ruled that natural justice was absent, so Air NZ did not have to face the music when it came to being held responsible for TE 901 crashing into Mt Erebus.
4. Joe Bloggs 4

   6 September 2011 at 9:19 am

   No word yet from Eddie about crowning Margaret Mutu as New Zealand’s new “most racist academic”.
   • Bill 4.1

     6 September 2011 at 9:38 am

     What’s racist about seeking to identify racist attitudes/beliefs?
     • felix 4.1.1

       6 September 2011 at 11:27 am

       According to the bigots there’s no such thing as racism. So if you say anything mean about racists then you’re just attacking a marginalised oppressed minority. Which makes you a bigot. And therefore probably a racist.

       Jeez Bill, a bit of sensitivity please.
       • Bill 4.1.1.1

         6 September 2011 at 12:26 pm

         Self inflicted slap up the side of the head duly administered.

         thankyou for pointing out the error of my ways Felix 😉
     • Joe Bloggs 4.1.2

       6 September 2011 at 2:45 pm

       Mutu didn’t seek to identify racist attitudes or beliefs – she demonstrated them.

       But don’t take my word.

       Here’s David Rankin’s view:
       “She obvi­ously thinks of her­self as the Robert Mugabe of New Zealand pol­i­tics, and has caused offence to hun­dreds of thou­sands of New Zealan­ders because of her extreme racist views.”

       “As a Maori, I wel­come white immi­grants,” Rankin said. “They are the ones most likely to bring employ­ment oppor­tu­ni­ties for our com­mu­ni­ties, and we don’t see the sort of racism Mar­garet refers to.”

       and his complaint to Joris de Bres

       So why do you treat it as a joke?
       • Bill 4.1.2.1

         6 September 2011 at 3:10 pm

         ‘It’ being?

         I don’t think Margaret Mutu’s observations were a joke. Provocative? Yes. Accurate? Yes.

         Taking a complaint to the ‘Race Relations? Farcical. Calling for her to lose her job? Ridiculous.

         The reaction of the usual right wing suspects? Ah. Now that I do regard as a bit of a joke. But that’s the only reason most of you clowns typo error the comments you do, right? To bring a little mirth into peoples’ days, yes?
         • Herodotus 4.1.2.1.1

           6 September 2011 at 3:42 pm

           So then how do you reconcile this oponion with the post – That you participated in
           http://thestandard.org.nz/cheeky-darkie-holmes-at-it-again/
           And Ant R0Bs “No Paul, to hell with racists.”
           And redlogics comment
           “The left frequently make the mistake of thinking tolerance must always be the highest principle that trumps all others. Well it ain’t. All too frequently it just finishes up as a proxy for being too lazy or apathetic to stand up for what is right.”
           Funny how the aruguement has changed depending on the players involved !!!
           • Bill 4.1.2.1.1.1

             6 September 2011 at 3:54 pm

             I made two comments in that thread you link to Herodotus. Care to point out any inconsistences between what I said on that thread and this one and then I’ll get back to you?
             • Herodotus …

               6 September 2011 at 4:17 pm

               No there was nothing in conflict by you from then or now – My intention was just to assist to refresh your memory back then in the discussion. And anyway there is nothing wrong in changing opinions, additional info can help all of us to see where we are wrong or confirm when we are right 🙂
           • Joe Bloggs 4.1.2.1.1.2

             6 September 2011 at 4:28 pm

             got it in one Herodotus.

             What makes Mutu’s comments deplorable is not her concern about immigration policy but the conclusion she draws that white people are racist.

             Far from being condemned like Clydesdale was a week ago on this self-same website, Mutu’s extrenme dogma is applauded. That’s the sort of meta-racism that only comes from hard-line idealogues.

             Whatever happened to the notion that migrants should be assessed as individuals, and decisions based on their level of skills, experience, education, contribution to NZ, &c.? Why should ethnic background matter?
         • Vicky32 4.1.2.1.2

           6 September 2011 at 4:22 pm

           Taking a complaint to the ‘Race Relations? Farcical. Calling for her to lose her job? Ridiculous.

           I admit I haven’t read what she said, but my son spoke to me about it yesterday, and he was utterly gob-smacked by her comments. On the basis of what he said, losing her job is the very least she should expect.
5. mickysavage 5

   6 September 2011 at 9:19 am

   A picture paints a thousand words.

   Stunning graphic from the New York times clearly identifying what has been happening over the past 30 years.

   It would be great if we had a Kiwi version. 
   • ianmac 5.1

     6 September 2011 at 9:26 am

     A stunning graphic indeed. However Joe will no doubt say that the Times is a lying bunch of Left wing idealogues who twist the facts. And that those very rich folk trickle their wealth down to the workers and are the biggest donors etc etc.
     • Joe Bloggs 5.1.1

       6 September 2011 at 2:52 pm

       putting words in other peoples mouths again IM?
   • RedLogix 5.2

     6 September 2011 at 10:34 am

     That 1980 transition fascinates me.

     Open question; how much an we attribute to the Reagan/Thatcherite right ‘greed is good’ swing, and how much should we point to the huge adoption of IT technology that more or less dates from exactly the same time?
     • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1

       6 September 2011 at 11:02 am

       What effects do you think IT has had over the last 3 decades?

       PS, Some one copy this thread over to the post please.
       • mickysavage 5.2.1.1

         6 September 2011 at 7:13 pm

         Oops I/S bet me to it.  Hat tip to him.
6. thejackal 6

   6 September 2011 at 10:15 am

   Will Wikipedia Kill The Jackal?

   Yesterday I decided to set up a Wikipedia page for The Jackal blogsite so that people searching for it could more readily find information. I also intend to use it to document controversial and significant topics that relate to New Zealand’s blogosphere, the law and politics in general. Little did I know that it’s a veritable minefield of rules and regulations, which will probably ensure an end to The Jackal article on Wikipedia…
   • ropata 6.1

     6 September 2011 at 10:30 am

     In other words you wanted to use it to boost you traffic? Wiki ain’t a SEO
     • thejackal 6.1.1

       6 September 2011 at 11:04 am

       Then why is Kiwibog on there? The Jackal doesn’t sell anything. There is a certain amount of promotion with any content on the Internet, even this comment could be considered promoting The Jackal. I’m linking to my site right now… big deal!
7. Hammer 7

   6 September 2011 at 10:34 am

   Was Margaret Mutu’s out-burst coming from her Maori side or her Pakeha side?
   • grumpy 7.1

     6 September 2011 at 11:54 am

     You mean she has a “split personality”?

     Who would have thought……….??
8. prism 8

   6 September 2011 at 10:38 am

   Another very capable informed woman who is an excellent communicator on her subject. On radionz this a.m.
   10:05 Connie Hedegaard – European Commissioner for Climate Action

   Connie Hedegaard is the European Commissioner for Climate Action. She’s in New Zealand leading the EU’s delegation to the Pacific Islands Forum, where she is also meeting Pacific leaders ahead of international climate negotiations. She was Denmark’s first minister for climate and energy, and is now leading the EU’s efforts towards a low-carbon future and the many different forms that takes. What is the EU doing to move towards a low-carbon economy?
   • grumpy 8.1

     6 September 2011 at 11:55 am

     Denmark???? DENMARK????? You must be f’ing joking!!!!
9. ak 9

   6 September 2011 at 10:43 am

   400,000 Israelis march for social justice

   General strike in Italy tomorrow

   NZ Press finally and irrevocably confirmed as Tory PR dept and less use than tits on a nun

   Watch those sharemarkets today, brothers and sisters, this could be the big one.
10. ak 10

    6 September 2011 at 10:53 am

    ….evocative of someone we know perhaps?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/05/going-to-the-store-film_n_949133.html
11. thejackal 11

    6 September 2011 at 11:00 am

    Right Wing Can’t Count

    A few days ago I wrote an article entitled New Zealand’s Oil Bonanza… Yeah Right! concerning National’s over inflation of potential income from oil and gas extraction in New Zealand. The sheer level of misreporting going on to promote a destructive process that contributes to climate change, (that threatens human existence on earth) was astounding and completely unacceptable…
12. Brett Dale 12

    6 September 2011 at 11:03 am

    Why no posts from the writers about Margaret Mutu? Theres the odd mention here at open mike, but no actual post about the whole suitation.
    • felix 12.1

      6 September 2011 at 11:28 am

      It’s open mike, Brett. Knock yourself out.
      • Brett Dale 12.1.1

        6 September 2011 at 12:31 pm

        Felix:

        Im not talking about open Mike, im talking about the actual writers here, it seems racism is okay with the left as long as its a Maori woman that is being racist.

        Still I got a laugh when she told the media what the word racist means.
        • Tiger Mountain 12.1.1.1

          6 September 2011 at 12:41 pm

          Below is a quote from an email Mana FB admin posted, http://www.facebook.com/ManaParty, they do so occasionally to let people know what keyboard racists there are out there.

          “Still cant believe the Mana party even exsists and if you are such a proud people and party, how about you raise your own party funds and not rely on the NZ people. Your entire party is just too out there and hypocritical for the avg kiwi , but I suppose the hard core niggers like yourselves all get off on this. Send all niggers home!!! Regards lee”

          So all you tory toe rags like Brett and Grumpy, “lee” rather supports Margaret Mutu’s contention that racism is alive and hating in NZ.
          • Brett Dale 12.1.1.1.1

            6 September 2011 at 12:48 pm

            Tiger Mountain:

            Did you see my post on their facebook page to that letter, saying that belongs in the Trash. Disgusting someone would write something like that to them. That though has nothing to do
            with what Margaret said and her position of power, and I stand by my thoughts, that normally sites like the standard would be outrage with the comments that Margaret Mutu said, but because she isa Maori woman you guys just shut up and say nothing and that is racist in itself.
    • prism 12.2

      6 September 2011 at 11:42 am

      @Brett Dale – I hadn’t heard about Margaret Mutu’s latest controversy Brett. Here’s the latest link I found – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10749746
      • Brett Dale 12.2.1

        6 September 2011 at 12:50 pm

        Well done to Nga Puhi leader David Rankin.
        • pollywog 12.2.1.1

          6 September 2011 at 1:47 pm

          Rankin’s just some news whoring kupapa chump they trotted out to slag his own people…well done on getting his name in the media again…fuckwit
          • Joe Bloggs 12.2.1.1.1

            6 September 2011 at 2:54 pm

            funny stuff pollywog – you give the same impression
    • grumpy 12.3

      6 September 2011 at 11:57 am

      Funny Brett, I thought the same. Remember the outrage over “Cheeky Darkie” and Paul Henry???
      • freedom 12.3.1

        6 September 2011 at 12:15 pm

        bit of a difference there Grumpy,
        an academic commenting on the integration of immigrants into society and the perceived affects upon her culture is hardly the same as big headed broadcasters espousing basic bigotry
        • Brett Dale 12.3.1.1

          6 September 2011 at 12:51 pm

          Freedom:

          Oh that is what she was doing, huh????
      • Brett Dale 12.3.2

        6 September 2011 at 12:55 pm

        Grumpy:

        Look at my posts in regards to Murray Deaker, I was shocked that he wasnt fired and quite disgusted.
    • Bill 12.4

      6 September 2011 at 12:44 pm

      Maybe I’ll do a post on racism in NZ Brett. You know, the fact its all pervasive, insidious and overt.

      And maybe I’ll compare it to the very similar ‘culture of superiority’ displayed by the English (British) establishment towards their white colonies within the British Isles.

      And maybe I’ll throw in a couple of open ended questions; such as why at the mention of a person being Polynesian, the immediate assumption is that they must be brown in spite of the fact that all white people born in NZ are Polynesian too?

      Or why it is that NZ is routinely and casually lumped in with Australasia when it is most decidedly not a part of Australasia, but a part of Polynesia?

      Or why it is that so many white people still mainatin that they are European in official forms in spite of the fact that they and their parents and even their parent’s parents were born in Polynesia?

      Or how it is possible to have a culture, supposedly based on partnership and that spans generations, to continue encouraging/promoting a European identity/ethnicity among the whites within it?

      Got any other revealing questions you’d like to add to the list Brett?

      edit. Apologies felix. couldn’t help myself.
      • Brett Dale 12.4.1

        6 September 2011 at 12:53 pm

        BIll:

        My thoughts are, the only reason we are different races is becaus eof Contineal drift.

        I just hate hypocrisy, and judgign the same behaviour diferently. Because Mutu is a Maori woman, the left wasnt offended by her comments.

        In terms of immigration I have always thought that the question what Ethnicity are you, should never be asked, because it shouldnt matter, what matters is what type of person you are.
        • Bill 12.4.1.1

          6 September 2011 at 1:05 pm

          I think you’ll find that continental drift may have given rise to different species Brett and further, that any drift during the entire span of human existence is negligable.

          And I think you’ll find that questions of ethnicity are asked in almost all official forms and that answers are limited by the ‘multiple choice’ nature of possible responses.

          You might also find that the whole concept of ‘race’ is a discredited one…that there is simply the human race.

          But all that aside, you got any interseting or thought provoking questions up your sleeve to be incorporated into a possible post?
        • Puddleglum 12.4.1.2

          6 September 2011 at 1:15 pm

          Brett’s proposed new question for the census:

          ‘What kind of person are you?

          a. virtuous, right wing, hard working ordinary New Zealander 

          b. evil, bludging, leftie traitor’

          It’s all we need to know about people.

          🙂 

          (Apologies Brett, I just couldn’t resist it.) 
          • Brett Dale 12.4.1.2.1

            6 September 2011 at 2:23 pm

            Puddlegum:

            I am neither hard working or virtuous.

            I still dont think someone should be kept out the country because of their ethnic background, thus I dont think it should be on an immigration form.

            As someone who has also worked on three census’s, that was quite funny.
            • Bill 12.4.1.2.1.1

              6 September 2011 at 3:04 pm

              Where does it ask about ethnicity on immigration forms? Far as I’m aware, nationality is what is asked.
              • Brett Dale …

                6 September 2011 at 3:39 pm

                BIll:

                Nationally shouldnt be asked then.
                • Colonial Viper …

                  6 September 2011 at 3:52 pm

                  If National had their way we wouldn’t even have a fucking census

                  They like to keep the country ignorant about its status after all.
                • Bill …

                  6 September 2011 at 4:06 pm

                  If nationality isn’t asked for (alongside proof), then we are talking open borders; freedom of movement for people.

                  I’m all for that Brett.

                  But in the meantime, there are immigration policies. And they’re loaded to favour some over others. (Points being awarded on skill set, wealth, age etc.) So in the present scenario, why not load the policy against racists?

                  I mean, political beliefs already affect the ability of some people to obtain visas etc, ( and by extension residency) so why not?
                  • grumpy …

                    6 September 2011 at 4:10 pm

                    No problem, I would be more than happy if a white South African extremist was denied entry to NZ. Just as I would be for Islamic extremist for their hatred of women, gays and infidels. How about you?
                    • Bill …

                      6 September 2011 at 4:15 pm

                      reiterating

                      “…political beliefs already affect the ability of some people to obtain visas etc, ( and by extension residency)…”
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      6 September 2011 at 4:16 pm

                      Haters of women and gays are already here in NZ

                      Whats a few more.
                    • grumpy …

                      6 September 2011 at 4:18 pm

                      Really CV??? Is that Labour Party policy now???
                  • Vicky32 …

                    6 September 2011 at 5:42 pm

                    (Points being awarded on skill set, wealth, age etc.) So in the present scenario, why not load the policy against racists?

                    And how would you determine that someone was a racist? By their national origin? Or their colour? Absurd. The most determinedly (to the point of being a tad unbalanced) person I ever met, was a social worker at Social Welfare in the 80s, a long-haired blue eyed blond man from Manchester England. (By a bit unbalanced, I mean that he frequently had dreams, he told me, of being in the centre of a group of angry Maori who chided him for not having done enough for Maori, and he always felt that he deserved it, as giving his life and that of his children would not be enough!
                    • marty mars …

                      6 September 2011 at 9:26 pm

                      funny, I wasn’t aware that human sacrifice was required – lucky it was just a dream
      • grumpy 12.4.2

        6 September 2011 at 3:30 pm

        “And maybe I’ll throw in a couple of open ended questions; such as why at the mention of a person being Polynesian, the immediate assumption is that they must be brown in spite of the fact that all white people born in NZ are Polynesian too?”

        Obviously you did not see Mutu’s interview??? with the World’s Worst Interviewer on Closeup last night.

        Apparently we are all just “visitors” in New Zealand. Makes you wonder, with her mixed anscestry, how she sees herself?

        As for being an “academic” obviously Auckland University has a very low threshold for that title.
        • Bill 12.4.2.1

          6 September 2011 at 6:09 pm

          Okay. Just watched it. She said she wanted a discussion on racism. What it is; how it plays out and what to do about it.

          ‘The ‘walrus’ in his intro said she wanted a universally applied test that would pick up on racist attitudes. What she said was that she didn’t want people coming into the country who would actively pursue to deny others that which rightfully belongs to them.

          I can’t see why anyone would have a problem with that.

          As an immigrant, my problem was that although I had to jump through numerous hoops with the immigration service there was no official avenue available for me to seek permission from tāngata whenua to live here.

          And when I considered citizenship, there was no official avenue for me to approach tāngata whenua, but there was an obligation to swear allegience to a monarch who resides on the other side of the planet.

          When I made moves to seek permission from tāngata whenua, the particular people I talked to near fell over backwards. No one had ever approached them before. I thought it was merely the decent thing to do and was genuinely surprised that nobody else had sought to do it. (Besides being common decency, it would have actually meant something whereas being granted permission by a faceless, anonymous bureaucracy means absolutely nothing and is, to my mind permission being granted by an illegitimate authority.)

          Meanwhile, getting back tothe point. Racist attitudes are fairly easy to pick and strangely difficult to disguise. So a test is ‘do-able’.

          And Margaret Mutu objects to active racists. Not the everyday armchair type who will move along with the broader ‘cultural times’. And wouldn’t it be a good thing to have fewer active racists impacting on the cultural environments of NZ so that the cultural environment moves that bit more speedily?
          • marty mars 12.4.2.1.1

            6 September 2011 at 9:17 pm

            You have written some awesome comments about this, and related subjects, Bill – thank you for that and what you have written here – you are a good bloke and I hope you do put up a post because you have some very valuable insights and attitudes.
        • weka 12.4.2.2

          6 September 2011 at 6:42 pm

          “Apparently we are all just “visitors” in New Zealand.”
           
          That’s not what she said. She said non-Maori are ‘welcome guests’. In order to understand what she means you have to understand Maori concepts of manawhenua and manaakitanga rather than misinterpreting her words through pakeha constructs.
           
      • Vicky32 12.4.3

        6 September 2011 at 5:27 pm

        Or why it is that so many white people still mainatin that they are European in official forms in spite of the fact that they and their parents and even their parent’s parents were born in Polynesia?
         

        Firstly, because official forms no longer give the “Pakeha” option, and second in my case, because although I was born here as was my mother, my father wasn’t. 
        I am now reading the Herald article linked to, and looking at the picture of Mutu – and laughing! She’s whiter than my mother was!
    • Daveosaurus 12.5

      6 September 2011 at 6:35 pm

      “Why no posts from the writers about Margaret Mutu?”

      How about getting off your lazy arse and submitting one for consideration as a “guest post”?
13. freedom 13

    6 September 2011 at 12:09 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10749743

    When poor law, bad judgement and kneejerk hysteria are exposed as an expensive waste of time and resources they resort to desperate measures and end up with applying what we can only imagine are the flimsiest of organised crime charges, though it will be interesting to see what the nature of the organised crime actually was . . . .
14. Dave Kennedy 14

    6 September 2011 at 12:12 pm

    The Minister’s claim that the Invercargill Principals, who signed an open letter expressing concerns with National Standards, are part of a Green Party stunt stretches credibility.
    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/09/just-political-stunt-claims-tolley.html
    • ianmac 14.1

      6 September 2011 at 12:53 pm

      Sir Anne must be on the right track. She has been elevated in the Nat List rankings. Future PM in the making?
      • freedom 14.1.1

        6 September 2011 at 12:57 pm

        thanks for that ianmac, i will have nightmares now ,
        • Dave Kennedy 14.1.1.1

          6 September 2011 at 1:35 pm

          The fact that she appears to genuinely believe her own spin against all the evidence to the contrary appears to serve her well. She just chants the same mantra no matter what is put in front of her.
          • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1.1.1

            6 September 2011 at 1:57 pm

            She just chants the same mantra no matter what is put in front of her.

            Typical RWNJ then putting ideology before reality.
          • mik e 14.1.1.1.2

            6 September 2011 at 8:44 pm

            She could become Acts education spokes person then
15. prism 15

    6 September 2011 at 12:19 pm

    @freedom – Your comment was very enigmatic. Why didn’t you put one descriptive word ie Urewera or similar? I had to go to the link to see what you are on about which I find is what I want to comment on.

    A recent Court case has resulted in charges in Operation Eight against the Tuhoe group being dropped but nothing can be revealed about the finding according to radionz! There are still 4 to go including Tame Iti for consorting with criminals or similar.

    Makes me wonder why we are over in the USA talking about that dodgy TPPPPTTT? Surely the country that dominates this matter is also criminal. It has broken numerous laws, but hey ho why should we worry about dealing with an entity which only washes the top of its hands. Turn them over and see what is on their palms! Let’s have some practical sense not the present non-sense from this government.
    • freedom 15.1

      6 September 2011 at 12:25 pm

      prism, exactly why i wrote what i wrote,
      ( wouldn’t it be be interesting to know what all the other possible articles were that went through people’s heads 🙂 )
16. prism 16

    6 September 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Another serious example of self-regulation and slack and lazy control over high standards for business has just been referred to today. Apparently MAF won’t prosecute bad, sloppy bee keepers after serious outbreaks of problem disease and pests. MAF says that it’s better to work with them, but then the bad practices are just continued with. Isn’t this amazing at a time when we know that the vital bee industry is under threat.

    What happens is that this foulbrood disease type spreads and infects other hives. The latest outbreak has resulted in 30 hives having to be burnt in an effort to rid the area of the infection.
    This hurts other beekeepers trying to run their businesses in a hygienic, responsible way. Enough of having their hives and business destroyed regularly and some beekeepers will give up all together. Not everybody wants to raise bees, not everybody is a good beekeeper either. When can we get our country back from this disease of neo liberalism, this desire for business to selfishly please themselves in their businesses with as few controls or commitment to good standards as possible.
17. Kevin Welsh 17

    6 September 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Nice to see people-power is still alive and well…

    http://evolutionnews.co.nz/capitalist-exploitation/a-story-missing-from-our-media-iceland’s-on-going-revolution/
    • AAMC 17.1

      6 September 2011 at 7:15 pm

      I read that via a Naomi Klein tweet the other day, she quickly retracted once she was corrected, just thought I should point it out. I wish the article had been true…

      http://grapevine.is/Features/ReadArticle/A-Deconstruction-of-Icelands-Ongoing-Revolution
      • prism 17.1.1

        6 September 2011 at 10:32 pm

        The Reykjavik Grapevine seems to provide good factual reading.
18. Vicky32 18

    6 September 2011 at 3:53 pm

    I found this while browsing on Stuff…
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5572717/Son-13-ready-to-support-family-and-ill-dad?comment_msg=posted#post_comment
    and I am not sure where to begin! The child is an idiot… as I said in my comment which is “awaiting approval”, he’s a prime example of the benefits of home-schooling. He says that when his father dies and if he can’t support his family, ”
    “If I can’t support my family, they will have to go on the dole. I don’t want that,”
    If things still work as they did when I worked for Social Welfare, the boy’s mother will go on to a widow’s benefit. That’s not “the dole”. Presumably the boy isn’t concerned about the amount – in common with the average non-beneficiary out there he probably thinks benefit levels are 3 times what they really are. He’s probably worried about the “shame”… However a 13 year old boy should not be risking other peoples’ lives by driving a truck – he should be getting an education. Apologies if someone’s already mentioned this – I am havinn connection problems!

     
19. the pink postman 19

    6 September 2011 at 4:06 pm

    I am becoming suspicious of certain news items.I think there is a move instigated by Crosby/Textor to drive a wedge between the Greens and Labour. The Left must not fall into a trap from the Right that would have the Greens and Labour competing against each other. We must never forget that although we sometimes differ we are both on the political Left .Lets both insprire for a Labour /Green government. Which Aotearoa badly needs.
    • Jum 19.1

      6 September 2011 at 4:36 pm

      The Pink Postman

      Totally agree and the first thing Labour should do, unless it has another plan, is to accept the Greens’ get children out of poverty for $180million plan. That will cement the political relationship and people will know that Labour means what it says about helping children. This is instant. I know Labour has various other policy but it can I’m sure incorporate this strategy and more importantly, acknowledge Greens’ importance in this by giving the Greens the portfolio to make it happen. That way the Greens will get on with it.
    • marsman 19.2

      6 September 2011 at 4:42 pm

      Hear hear!
      • Jum 19.2.1

        6 September 2011 at 5:36 pm

        Marsman,

        Labour needs to acknowledge both Progressives and the Greens. Jim Anderton added a huge plus to that Government with KiwiBank and if Labour had still been in Government Anderton would have had his affordable dental care bill followed up.

        Greens missed out for obvious reasons – United Future and NZ First forced them out and Labour had to deal with them in order to keep National out or we would have been even worse off now.

        Perhaps people will begin to finally accept that sustainable living along with 21st century lifestyles can live side by side with thoughtful compromise.

        The worst thing New Zealanders can do now is keep NActU in once more term; it is this next term whereby New Zealand loses its future. Labour can reinstate the 75% requirement before Local Government assets can be sold, which it laudably legislated for in 2002.

        Why on earth isn’t Labour shouting out about what it has achieved and what it has saved New Zealand from if National had manipulated it into giving out more tax cuts. We’ve already seen the damage that NActU has done in this short time. Be warned; they will speed up if they get in again. Give them time on the sidelines while we bring some worker/employer/government balance back to our community.

        Helen Clark gave us time to recoup our losses from the previous Douglas/Richardson cuckoos.

        Douglas got back; don’t be surprised if Richardson gets back in too. Where did she get thrown out of after destroying their economy? Iceland? Ireland?
20. Jum 20

    6 September 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Parliament is waxing lyrical over the Local Government Borrowing Bill – sounds good.

    Word of caution; anything Rodney Hide touches turns to lead and our country-wide assets will be seen trotting off to foreign parts on JKeyll and Hide’s little piggy legs.

    Auckland has $28 billion of assets which Hide stole from all the greater councils around the city. The jury is out on the worthwhile benefits to the country areas that have been completely left out except for a good library service, but even that carries risks if only one area of the Library can buy books. It was noticeable by the books that the libraries were selling off by the bucketload that anything to do with women’s rights and political books that put another point of view to that of the neo-conservative were being reduced.

    The country areas don’t have electric trains expected so Stephen Joyce was lying in Parliament today.

    Also, Christchurch’s earthquake was extremely convenient for this government to take public view off the fact they had shut down the democratice ECAN in Canterbury. Brownlee will certainly try to force (he is czar after all) Christchurch Council to sell off its assets.

    Should Auckland have an earthquake in the future the LG Borrowing Bill debt, which I admit does save us from PPPs, etc. will be used to force the Councils in debt to sell off LG assets.

    Read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein and you will see why I am so cynical about this government and its bovver boy Hide. JKeyll is hiding behind these extremists. Remember.
21. joe90 21

    6 September 2011 at 5:03 pm

    This tickled me.

    http://gizmodo.com/5835821/1-in-10-dead-bosses-are-murdered
22. randal 22

    6 September 2011 at 6:32 pm

    and dont forget goldman sacks. they have stepped up to asist the PM by sticking their oar in and saying that ‘industry’ is being held back because there is not enough liquidity in the sharemarket so therfore sell the state assets so the rugged individualists can play monopol;y with other peoples money. look there goes the march hare and the mad hatter.
    • Jum 22.1

      6 September 2011 at 6:49 pm

      Randal,

      What was that valuable piece of information on the Stock Exchange? That it has nothing to do with the overall financial well-being of New Zealand and New Zealanders – just a place for mostly men with pots of money they’ve stolen off other people to go and play paper wars with.
23. Ianupnorth 23

    6 September 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Aaron Gilmour – for PM – the leadership coup begins
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Aaron-Gilmore-for-Prime-Minister/118195268201661
    or
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5572501/MP-spoofed-in-faux-Facebook-page,
     
    or even better!!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Gilmore
    NB none of them are my own work!

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