Open mike 07/08/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 7th, 2023 - 74 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

74 comments on “Open mike 07/08/2023 ”

  1. SPC 1

    Interesting game of football – Sweden vs USA.

    The better team won, but the USA individuals created more chances, only to stopped from winning by the Swedish keeper (token brunette).

    Then in the penalty shootout, the American keeper was good, but her team lost because teammates could not shoot on target.

    A major success for those who train at The New Zealand Campus of Innovation and Sport for worldies. In the local club area of two former Ferns Sarah Gregorius and Wendi Henderson (and current PM).

    • Mike the Lefty 1.1

      I felt sorry for the US keeper, out of the cup by a few millimetres! Rather cruel way to go.

      But happy with the result because I have a small bet at the TAB on Sweden to lift the cup and now they are past the US I think they have a great chance.
      We have certainly seen some great football over the past couple of weeks.

  2. Tiger Mountain 2

    Can any of the political geniuses around here explain why Labour’s “three tunnels” should not be considered an Auckland iteration of the “Springfield Monorail”?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_vs._the_Monorail

    To put it bluntly, Act and Natzos want to destroy FPAs, slash public service, sit on minimum wage increases, attack Māori and wind back many of the incremental reforms Labour has enacted–it needs to be met head on with strong statements. NZ Labour may as well have announced a sky car for every home…

    Get real, this general election is likely the last throw of the dice for the selfish section of boomers and should be taken more seriously.

    • Sanctuary 2.1

      The announcement yesterday was complete nonsense, grandiose vapourware that will be shelved by February if Labour win. And anyway, why does the North Shore need so much transport infrastructure? They've got the harbour bridge, ferries, two motorways, a dedicated busway, Penlink – talk about the home of the long white whine. Meanwhile, the Northwestern is a complete sh*tshow without even a bus lane, you can't commute to town from Howick without changing bus 40 million times and taking three hours or paying a ransom for the ferry, the Bermuda triangle of cycleways from New Lynn to Ellerslie/Penrose is a thing, the eastern line is closed for a year, and Dannemora/Flatbush resembles a giant carpark such is the paucity of transport options.

      • weka 2.1.1

        your comments got held back because there’s a typo in your email address. please fix for next comment.

      • Tony Veitch 2.1.2

        Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder what the f*** Labour stands for anymore!

      • Phillip ure 2.1.3

        This tunnel plan from labour is bullshit…with a capital b..and a bevy of exclamation marks…

        It is a classic diversion tactic ..

        'look..!…over there..!'..

        The bridge isn't the problem .(as others have noted above..)

        Traffic on the bridge flows…it is the roads on both sides that are the problem..

        Brown on rnz noted that traffic on the bridge hasn't increased because of the success of the busway..

        He also pointed out the places on motorway that clog…all the time…and said they should be re-engineered…

        (Strange to agree with brown..but there ya go..!)

        And of course taking on board the roaring success of the north shore busway…it would seem bleeding obvious to look at the other busways ..and to re-engineer them to get the same results as the nth shore one..

        And more of them ..

        Which brings me to my idea for transport to airport…why not build a dedicated busway ..that could only be used by busses and emergency vehicles..and express busses could feed into it from those public transport deserts..

        ..much cheaper/nimble/multi/efficient option…I would submit..

        I also agree with those asking why this ginormous expense should be focused on the north shore…an area already well served by public transport/road/bridge options..when so many other/poorer areas are those public transport deserts…

        And here is something that could be done for public transport…use a small fraction of the cost of labours' pipe-dream ..and buy the ferry company…and slash the fares..and expand the fleet with electric ferries….with a larger terminal for them as part of the port plans..

        Whichever way you look at it…this multi-tunnel/ginormously expensive idea from labour..is total bullshit ..

        ..and does them no favours…

        • Mike the Lefty 2.1.3.1

          I agree.

          This election is becoming a hectic lolly scramble with most of the parties promising more and bigger lollies than the others. It is pretty obvious that they don't know how much their grandiose projects would really cost, but incredibly they seem to think that we – the voters – don't really care. They talk about projects costing an estimated $30 billion as if it is loose change begging to be spent.

          I would like to see the parties looking at smaller, more targeted initiatives such as you mention that cover things like wealth equality, climate change, poverty and transport, but with the possible exception of the Greens, they are too obsessed with Think Big 2023.

      • Corey 2.1.4

        And what's there even to do in the North shore once you get there?? Nothing but listening to Lorde and moan about not taking the Yacht out enough.

        The scary thing about the project is if they say in 2023 it's gonna cost $15 billion, by 2029 it's gonna cost $20-25 billion and then there will be the usual project blow outs and construction will take about 5 years longer than estimated…it always does…

        Eye watering.

        Sure…. They actually do need a crossing at some point because the current bridge will not last forever, engineers are constantly telling us about Auckland harbour bridge being at risk of total structural failure.

        But … $15 billion (which will really end up costing $20-25 billion) far out…

    • SPC 2.2

      Those who see other transport priorities reducing congestion first as a priority might wonder about another option.

      The current bridge has a problem with durability because of the clip-on. It could be replaced, but this reduces capacity during the work.

      One option is to reserve the clip-on for lightweight use only – cars and light commercial vehicles and otherwise motorbikes/e bikes, bicycles and pedestrians.

      If this does not provide enough capacity, then a new (toll) bridge (let the truckies pay for it).

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.2.1

        Yep. I just cant see all the $ Billions…tunnels,time factor (cost overruns) et al, being appropriate, or needed.

        And re your

        If this does not provide enough capacity, then a new (toll) bridge (let the truckies pay for it).

        Hell yes !

        Re your earlier comment on Coastal Shipping. I am just baffled why NZ isnt "on board" with this. Coastal Ships should be Operational in NZ wherever possible !

        And just make it possible !

        • Belladonna 2.2.1.1

          You do realize that it's not the "truckies" paying for it – that cost will be loaded onto everything they transport – and onto the hourly rate of contractors.

          It's not the truckies who will pay, it's their customers.

          • SPC 2.2.1.1.1

            We sure pay for it. We allow the heavier trucks on the add-on and the bridge life is compromised.

            We allow the heavier trucks on the roads and they crack faster and the rain makes holes.

            We undermine alternatives to the trucks and lack (regional) resilience when the roads go down – GW anyone?

            • Sabine 2.2.1.1.1.1

              You could write a sternly worded letter to the Labour for failing to repeal legislation from National that allowed for the heavier trucks. You could then write another sternly worded letter to the Green Party – the one party that cancels out working with anyone else but Labour – defacto being a fully owned subsidiary to Labour – as to why they did not compel Labour for rescinding that policy.

              After all we are globally boiling? Right? Right?

              • Ed1

                Yes National did allow larger trucks and larger loads. The Road User charges are complex, and depend on the configuration and weight. I suspect it is time that those charges were reviewed, and I have believed for a long time that we should follow the UK with emission testing and registration based on how much pollution the vehicle emits. A friend who is an engineer told me that his truck with a heavy extendable crane on the back may cause as much damage as a larger truck with more wheels. I suspect a lot of the problem now is because National only put half the money into maintenance that they needed to for nine years and let the potholes develop.

                • Sabine

                  And what did Labour do over the last 6 years? just asking, because the current government is a labour one with a full majority. National left the building in 2016 when Labour and NZFirst with supply from the Greens formed the government that unseated National.

                  And again, this changes nothing on the fact that businesses don't pay GST or Tolls. The tax payer does, the end consumer does, the purchaser of the goods that got transported do.

          • Sabine 2.2.1.1.2

            We will pay twice for it. First time the cost of toll will be factored in teh cost of delivery, end consumer pays. Second time, the cost of toll will be factored into the cost of doing business and will be written of as a business expense, the tax payer pays the toll.

            But yeah, the evil truckies who bring good to a supermarket, warehouse, building site.

            Just such limited thinking on who actually pays the shit everyone wants for free.

            • SPC 2.2.1.1.2.1

              The old let the truckies write transport policy, they are in it for us, and let the tobacco companies write the rules for retailing – they are just giving people what they are addicted to.

              let you do

              The driving principle behind laissez-faire, a French term that translates to "leave alone" (literally, "let you do"), is that the less the government is involved in the economy, the better off business will be, and by extension, society as a whole. Laissez-faire economics is a key part of free-market capitalism.

              Also known as Leave it to Lassie, a popular propaganda show from the 1950's.

              • Sabine

                You are putting a lot of words there where i left none.

                Again, the costs of Tolls are paid by the end user of the trasnported product as the toll is factored into the purchasing price of any goods. Then the tolls are paid again, this time by the tax payer who will pay for the write off costs of doing business.

                So in essence you could say that your toll roads are a net benefit for transport companies. They get to charge the toll + profit and then they get to write it off as a cost of doing business reducing their taxable income.

                As for laissez faire economics, no one better then the current lot in government who have regulated nothing. See inflation, high cost of living, falling healthcare services, education failing on all levels, high crime, shootings by criminals leaving the country littered in dead bodies…..my oh my, so much laissez faire.

                Which, btw, is going to be the reason for many people to not donate to labour, not volunteer for labour, not door knock for labour, not put signs up for labour and in the end not vote for labour.

                Tolls and GST are things that only the end consumer and tax payer pays. Businesses charge them on and then demand a write of of their expenses. And labour no more will regulate that then national. Cause they both benefit of it.

                The trouble in NZ is that we need decent roads, but we have not a single party in government that is honest about what we need, what we can finance. So in essence due to the cowardly suits in NZ politics we have shitty private transport, shitty public transport, and shitty commercial transport. It's almost as if it is by design. Underfunded, understaffed, like our schools, hospitals, coppers, but gazillions of people who earn 6 figures drawing dumb arse pictures with tunnels all the way to china.

          • KJT 2.2.1.1.3

            We all pay through the nose already for trucking roads, energy and pollution costs.

            Just that it is not obvious, because the costs are paid indirectly.

            • Belladonna 2.2.1.1.3.1

              Oh, I agree. This was in response to the very short-sighted comment about 'just make the truckies pay'

              The reality is, that it's the truckies customers who will pay – and in the end (unless you live off what you grow in your backyard, and don't buy anything) – that's all of us.

      • SPC 2.2.2

        https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2023/03/30/harbour-crossing-project-now-estimated-to-cost-15-25-billion/

        The Labour plan has the road tunnels in the role of a new bridge (with the separate rail tunnel to complete its light rail network plan).

        As the tunnels were built, two lanes on the existing bridge would be turned into dedicated bus lanes to extend the Northern Busway to the CBD, and some clip-on lanes would become cycling lanes and walkways. Waka Kotahi NZ Transport Agency was also looking into building an elevated walkway above the cycle lanes to separate pedestrians.The remaining four lanes would be for general traffic.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/auckland-harbour-crossing-mayor-wayne-brown-fires-shot-at-major-parties-over-start-date-and-price-tag/U45RBB2DYBGDNF3IIPFYM4VWFA/

        I'd go with a cheaper option of a new bridge than the road tunnels and leave the idea of a rail tunnel and the city wide light rail development till later.

        Disclosure – vote Green, and not competing with National for the car-driven mad vote.

        • Belladonna 2.2.2.1

          Meanwhile – there is actually no reason for there to be dedicated bus lanes across the bridge itself.
          The hold-ups are on the approaches – where on-ramps feed into the motorway – which is why the bus lanes were implemented and are effective.
          Once the motorway is past the last on-ramp (Onewa Rd) – the traffic is free flowing and there is no need for buses to be separated out- there will be no advantage to them – they can't move faster than the rest of the traffic at 80K, even in their own lane.

          This is one of those 'sound good' policies which actually has little, if any, benefit.

          • newsense 2.2.2.1.1

            We’re talking a couple of decades into the future at least. There will be no buses and more cars you’d think.

            It also has the added benefit of problems with other traffic- breakdowns and so on, not affecting the buses.

      • Belladonna 2.2.3

        One option is to reserve the clip-on for lightweight use only – cars and light commercial vehicles and otherwise motorbikes/e bikes, bicycles and pedestrians.

        That light use scenario has played out at various times across the bridge – when heavy traffic (including buses) has been directed to the centre span. It doesn't really have a big impact on the volume of traffic – although it makes it a bit difficult for buses to manoeuvre across to and from the side-of-the-motorway bus lanes.

        Walking and cycling across the existing bridge is a dead duck. It's quite simply not going to happen unless the Government legislates for it – and accepts all H&S liability (I can't see them doing this either).

        ATM – AT know that if they allowed walkers/cyclists to use the existing lanes – and there was an accident resulting in deaths – they would be liable. Every board of directors and CEO in the country is watching the White Island court case with shivers running down their spines.

        In addition, any restriction of capacity (and using one or more lanes for walking/cycling will significantly restrict capacity) – will make the Government deeply unpopular (and the current Government appears to be courting popularity at all costs).

        No one (least of all the cyclists) appears to be interested in any alternatives. The cheapest and quickest would be an EV cycle shuttle from the old toll plaza to the Curran St on-ramp – running on an endless cycle during rush hour – and on call at other times.
        Pedestrians, of course, already have their alternative in place – the bus system. Which has the advantage of running from close to where you live – rather than requiring you to walk for an hour to get to the bridge.

    • newsense 2.3

      Sure- Springfield’s monorail is a solution without a problem.

      This plan is essential to keep a secure and consistent connection between the shore and the city. Good density on the Shore and good access to public transport would be part of the solution to reducing a carbon footprint.

      At the moment the bridge is the only point of crossing. It is currently dangerous in high winds. We are going to see more storms. That would see emergency services on either side of the harbour unnecessarily separated. It is an aging structure not designed for the kind of loads it currently takes. We will need new harbour crossings to keep the city functioning. It is a good idea to plan for them.

      Solving one problem doesn’t mean not solving other problems too. What a redundant argument! If we have police we can’t have hospitals?

      The mayor was busy planning cosmetic swimming pools rather than focus on urgent issues a day ago. He’s allowed to do that but central government isn’t allowed to plan for a much more pressing problem?

      Take a breath people!

      • bwaghorn 2.3.1

        I'd love to know what geologists think of a tunnel in a volcanic city?

        • Sabine 2.3.1.1

          totes ok, now give that consultant a 6 figure check.

        • Belladonna 2.3.1.2

          Having seen the plans (where it reaches surface level especially on the Shore side), I'm more worried about sea level rise. The section of the motorway where the road tunnel lands on the NS is already subject to being splashed by waves in a king tide with following winds.
          Projecting for a 30 centimetre sea-level rise by 2050 – the whole area is going to be underwater. I wouldn't feel safe in a tunnel….

          I can't comment on the projected rail link landing – the maps are too waffly to know where it would actually end up.

        • Patricia Bremner 2.3.1.3

          Ad might comment on that. According to him this plan began in 2014 so in 9 years surely that problem would dictate the route?

        • Graeme 2.3.1.4

          Plenty of stormwater / sewer / power tunnels under Auckland already, most of them in recent times with TBMs

          The geology of the place is generally sandstone / greywacke with the volcanics coming up through that in known places. Makes for pretty good tunnelling conditions.

    • Hunter Thompson II 2.4

      Didn't some German engineering students do a report that recommended a commuter monorail system up the centre of the North Shore motorway some years back?

      It wouldn't require using extra land, although motorway overbridges would be a problem.

  3. SPC 3

    Can anyone shed some light on the issue of our current distribution system?

    Is any of our inward cargo to Auckland and Tauranga sent down to Christchurch or Wellington via coastal shipping? And if not, why not?

    Is there any reason why the government should not run a state owned coastal shipping service to get trucks (less of them and phase back down the maximum size/weight) off our roads and ensure resilience for when roads are washed out (supply into Northland or Hawkes Bay etc)?

    Another issue is reducing Auckland to a coastal port – receiving goods for the local area (apart from some down from Northport by train). And having Northport and Tauranga as the two international ports (for onward shipment to Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch).

    PS Another (related) matter is the failure of the Cook Strait service to food from north to south and south to north reliably.

    • KJT 3.1
      1. Yes. Unfortunately National’s “open Coast” policy in the 90’s decimated reliable coastal shipping services in favour of much more expensive and resource intensive, trucking.
      2. Need to encourage coastal shipping. But we already have a Government owned coastal service. The rail ferries.
        Having shipping on a level footing with overly subsidised trucking should be the first step.
      3. Doesn't make sense to replace Auckland with Whangarei and Tauranga when most of the cargo goes to and from South Auckland. Both are limited for larger ships and need cargo transported from South Auckland to them.
        Firth of Thames, Orere Point is the sensible option for the North Island main port for the future. However local politics prevents sensible solutions. As NZ fails to plan ahead Sydney may well become the hub port with all the associated costs and inefficiencies. Or we will continue to try and get ever larger ships into ports which will never be suitable for them without ongoing and ever increasing inefficiencies and expense.
        Even if Auckland becomes a coastal port the capability and area used on the existing site will need to be improved/increased.
        Anyone who suggests the Manukau, loses their credibility straight away.
      4. Having alternative shipping services to and from more smaller ports helps solve the bottleneck of Cook Strait weather and the reliance on only a few ships.

      Then there is the issue of whether exporting cheap bulk commodities to China, in return for short lived manufactered junk, is actually a sustainable future path for Aotearoa.

    • kejo 3.2

      Try http://www.coastalbulkshipping.co.nz The present government has also done some sort of deal with two other offshore shipping companies, one of which is Swires. The latest 'CBS' ship came into service in time to pick up a 3 month contract servicing the east coast area after the cyclone wrecked the roads.

      • kejo 3.2.1

        I believe this government move was an attempt to make our transport system more resilient following the kaikoura earthquake

  4. Ad 4

    Is The Standard really now just doing cut and paste political media releases with zero commentary?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  5. Sanctuary 5

    Oh well, I guess the US team could ask for another pay rise.

  6. SPC 6

    AB's

    Newshub.

    I prefer Weber to Christie at halfback (Kerr-Barlow if they changed their rules). Finau or Blackadder?

    I'd have 4 in midfield (Ennor or Havili and Goodhue missing out).

    And add Narawa or Stevenson to the FB/wing group. Fainga'anuku can cover midfield. The one missing out, injury reserve.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2023/08/ollie-ritchie-predicting-all-blacks-rugby-world-cup-squad-for-france.html

    • SPC 6.1

      No Moody.

      4 locks and one injured.

      Only 5 loose forwards.*

      Correctly 4 midfield (Havili over Goodhue with Ennor injured) with cover from Fainga'anuku,

      * a surprise extra at the back

      Will Jordan and Mark Telea and Narawa is fit enough, Leicester Fainga'anuku but for mine Stevenson has the form this year, rather than Clarke if there is an extra one.

  7. Joe90 7

    Better late than never.

    Natalia Antonova

    @NataliaAntonova

    She’s beautiful this way. (And as for the Soviet fetishists on here – you can fuck right off. I’m telling you this as the direct descendant of Red Army officers on both sides of the family. We’ve moved on. Fuck Moscow. Enough is enough.)

    Ukraine’s national trident was installed on a monument depicting the Motherland in Kyiv on Sunday, replacing Soviet symbols in one of the most visible examples of breaking away from the past and Moscow’s influence.

    […]

    Originally, the shield bore the Soviet Union’s coat of arms – a crossed hammer and sickle surrounded by ears of wheat.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/06/ukraine-replaces-soviet-symbol-on-motherland-monument-in-kyiv

  8. PsyclingLeft.Always 8

    The 'corner dairy campaign' quietly backed by big tobacco

    Since 1 August, ads have started showing up on Facebook urging people to support a petition to "save our stores".

    And much earlier, similar tactic in Britain (same link)

    In 2008, British MPs were fooled by a 'save our shop' campaign they thought was from independent retailers protesting rules for displaying cigarettes. The campaign was run by the Tobacco Retailers' Association which was linked to tobacco companies British American Tobacco, Imperial Tobacco and Gallaher.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/495271/the-corner-dairy-campaign-quietly-backed-by-big-tobacco

    Scumbags.

  9. ianmac 9

    Damn. Behind the paywall. Someone?

    How come the perception that Youth Crime is raging out of control? Derek Chang has a brilliant column under "Election Analysis 2023" Graphs and all:

    The number of charges has also fallen, though not as sharply as the number of those facing charges; there were 10,701 charges across those aged 10 to 16 in 2013, but this dropped by 43 per cent to 6060 charges by 2022, and is still a decent drop (22 per cent) if charges against 17-year-olds are included.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-youth-crime-the-politics-numbers-and-what-would-make-a-difference/USKHTN6HTREZJFBXE3HSRHVLMU/

  10. newsense 10

    Allowing Wayne Brown to blowhard on RNZ this morning. Geeeeeez.

    For a while for the right the harbour crossing was more important than any light rail. Now it’s a distraction from other things, apparently. Outmaneuvered, they shift attack.

    No one seems to have pulled him up for spending his time talking about putting swimming pools on the waterfront and moving the port ahead of other pressing business.

    Or the fact that we can walk and breathe and it’s vitally important to keep the Shore properly connected to the city so we need to get started well before the bridge starts failing or the rate of high winds etc increases. We can do that and resurface other roads etc etc.

    And the right had organised good Vox popli follow up to support the mayor too, as if starting the planning for this was responsible for too many cones in streets in the city.

    On the back foot and the opposition is getting time to frame their policies.

    • Phillip ure 10.1

      I thought he made some sense…

      What exactly did you disagree with..?

      And the nth shore is already well-served..with road/bridge/ferry options…lots of other areas are public transport deserts..

      And I have no problem with the port being reclaimed for people to use…

      What have you got against that idea..?

      • newsense 10.1.1

        Both major parties are looking at a new Harbour crossing.

        The busway is already heavily subscribed.

        The bridge is already dangerous in high winds. This is something that needs replacing and because of the size it needs to be looked at early to get it done.

        I know chewing gum and walking is a problem for some- but we can plan to deal with this issue as well as working on other problems across the transport network. It’s a false argument.

        My point is yesterday the Mayor was talking about a long term plan, but no one said Oh no! No more road resurfacing because we want to put a swimming pool downtown.

        As well in a city very well served with beaches, and considering the failure of the Wynyard tram you have to wonder about the value of these developments on what can be a cold, windy space. A two month a year development? Perhaps less with sub tropical summer storms.

  11. Adrian 11

    Under the usual scenario in NZ infrastructure you don’t actually build something or even think about it until the original structure is well past its use by date or falls down. Then 2 decades go by while we drive around it or climb over it before a replacemet is thrown together. It seems also to be a mantra especially at local level to build something for yesterday instead of 30 or 50 years down the track. The number of one- way bridges in this country is testament to that cross-eyed yokel thinking. it is still going n, I drive across two of them built within the last 15 years to go 20kms to a large town. The previous ones were 90 and 110 years old, if one lane was enough a hundred years ago I suppose another 100 years of backing trucks backwards off bridges so at least someone can get past will just have to do, can’t spend too much money y’know.
    The time to build a second harbour crossing was yesterday.

  12. Patricia Bremner 12

    So, Phillip "all for a view?"

    The planning for the tunnels and rail started as Ad said in 2014. Nine years looking at what is long lasting and feasible. Making a commitment. Brown complains about consultation. What a crock. surprise

    Show us the consultation on Budget cuts he high handedly announced. Show us the consultation and planning for his Ports idea. Both were non existent, but now he wants consultation.?????wink

    • Phillip ure 12.1

      I see you don't address what he said..

    • Belladonna 12.2

      To be entirely fair to Brown, the budget cuts came after what was the most submitted upon budget in Auckland Council history.

      We (the public) did have our say. And the Councillors (from all sides of the political spectrum) did have to agree upon it. He's not a one-man-dictatorship, he only has one vote on the Council.

  13. Ad 13

    HUUUUGE shoutout to the nurses unions and teachers unions who stuck it out and got what they needed, accepting their big offers.

    Have to ask why a Labour government made it all so hard.

    But a win's a win for everyone.

    • Tiger Mountain 13.1

      I never put down organised labour–apart perhaps from tactical differences–having been a life long unionist myself, but…would note that a number of public sector workers were way more timid when sirkey was in office, with the honourable exception of those teacher unions that held out against Hekia Parata’s National Standards, Charter schools, and bulk funding and “performance” pay.

      Labour spent big during COVID basically, pity so much of it went into property via finance capital!

    • psych nurse 13.2

      We only accepted in the knowledge that if we held out the Mecca would drag out past October and a change of Government would mean no settlement for years.

      • Patricia Bremner 13.2.1

        Bread and knowing which side is butteredlaugh with a little honey on the side.

      • pat 13.2.2

        Theres something to be said for honesty….and all those that say the PS Unions target Labour admins are vindicated.

        • Craig H 13.2.2.1

          Depends on the union. Serious action also requires members to want to do it – if they don't, it doesn't matter who the government is.

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