Open mike 11/06/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, June 11th, 2019 - 116 comments
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116 comments on “Open mike 11/06/2019 ”

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  1. Pete George 1
    11 June 2019 at 7:16 am

    Another failure in court for the self described 'justice campaigner', better described as vexatious and hopeless.

    [10] As to that, Mr Nottingham has entirely failed to persuade us that any of the material now sought is necessary for the due conduct of the appeals.

    [12] This application is, therefore, an ill-assessed distraction from the issues on appeal. These must focus on the admissibility of the evidence adduced, the inferences properly to be drawn from that evidence and the directions given by the trial Judge, rather than on evidence neither before nor capable of being before the Court, or the background motives of those who did or did not give evidence, to the extent that was not already put in evidence. There is a limit. It has long since been crossed in this application.

    So now on to the delayed appeal:

    [2] The Solicitor-General has appealed Mr Nottingham’s sentence on the basis it is, she says, manifestly inadequate. Mr Nottingham has appealed both conviction and sentence. These appeals are to be heard by Criminal Appeal Division on 25 June 2019.

    https://yournz.org/2019/06/11/nottingham-fails-in-court-again/

  2. Chris T 2
    11 June 2019 at 7:38 am

    Reminds me of Labour refusing to rule out blocking KDC's deportation if it was ruled and them and the Greens hanging out at his mansion, in case he got in.

    Politicians will do anything to get in.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [lprent: Trolls will do anything to get a false equivalence. Excellent diversion – however your reward will be that the next time I see you do that then you will get a ban. ]

    • Muttonbird 2.1
      11 June 2019 at 7:41 am

      The they-all-do-it defence.

      I’m not sure Simon Bridges has a feel for politics at all.

      • greywarshark 2.1.1
        11 June 2019 at 10:35 am

        What does he feel instead? As for Chris T, that remark above fully demonstrates his mean little mind, so remember how he is whenever he appears to be making some useful objective comment – it is just a front which he will soon resile from.

    • mickysavage 2.2
      11 June 2019 at 7:46 am

      Proof please.

      • Chris T 2.2.1
        11 June 2019 at 7:59 am

        "There was good news for Kim Dotcom last night. David Cunliffe and Russel Norman said a Labour-Greens government might block Kim Dotcom from being extradicted to the US, should he lose his case (scheduled to start July 31).

        "I've always said I didn’t support the extradition process," Mr Norman told 3News. "In a number of respects, I just don’t think it’s fair."

        Mr Cunliffe offered more qualified support for the accused pirate, saying, telling the broadcaster, "Prima face, the current government’s operation against Mr Dotcom appears to have been outside the law in a number of respects."

        https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/dotcom-sets-deadline-internet-party-self-destruct-ck-151704

        In 3News' report, the Labour leader doesn't voice support for blocking extradition but later, when challenged on social media, 3News political editor Patrick Gower later said Mr Cunliffe said he was open to considering the option."

        • mickysavage 2.2.1.1
          11 June 2019 at 8:09 am

          Good attempted diversion.

          Extradition cases involve a judicially reviewable decision by a Minister. If Cunliffe had said that the Government were not open to considering the matter and would extradite him no matter what then that would have been perfect grounds for Dotcom to seek judicial review.

          Holy false equivalence.

          • Chris T 2.2.1.1.1
            11 June 2019 at 8:19 am

            Me – "Reminds me of Labour refusing to rule out blocking KDC's deportation if it was ruled "

            You "Proof please."

            Me – Proof

            You – "Good attempted diversion. "

            • lprent 2.2.1.1.1.1
              11 June 2019 at 8:36 am

              Perhaps you should read a little law? Then you might be able to understand what MS wrote.

              Incidentally I agree completely with Norman's position. That means that I also agree with several courts who also have said that the police approach to such things as the search warrants and many other matters was appalling.

              If you want to relitigate Kim DotCom, then stick to posts on the subject or OpenMike.

            • Hamish Stevenson 2.2.1.1.1.2
              11 June 2019 at 9:29 am

              Perhaps Micky wanted proof about Labour and the the Greens hanging out at KDC's mansion…?

          • greywarshark 2.2.1.1.2
            11 June 2019 at 10:36 am

            MS You are talking about Dotcom not the Bish.

        • Gabby 2.2.1.2
          11 June 2019 at 4:24 pm

          If Kim's been practising his kickpunching Ian LazyGalloway might bestir himself.

    • Incognito 2.3
      11 June 2019 at 7:51 am

      Reminds me of false equivalence and whataboutism but you’re right, National will deal with just about anybody to get back in power. They’ll throw out any convention, anything that stands in their way. They’ll fight dirtier than dirty, they’ll fight feral. The media will lap it up, of course.

    • Chris T 2.4
      11 June 2019 at 10:06 am

      Understood

      And I am sure you will consistent with whataboutism the other way.

  3. Muttonbird 3
    11 June 2019 at 8:52 am

    One time political journalist turned tabloid shock-jock, Duncan Garner, must be under immense pressure from his bosses to bring in eyeballs and ears to the AM Show.

    Here he takes an infantile and worryingly reckless position in aggressively demanding the PM tells him how she's going to vote in any cannabis referendum.

    The PM of course quite correctly states that her position being made public would influence the vote, so she declined his advances.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/jacinda-ardern-duncan-garner-clash-over-cannabis-legalisation-stance.html

  4. A 4
    11 June 2019 at 8:53 am

    It's not possible for prices to go up indefinitely. We are at or near the top…first home buyers would be foolish to buy anything at this point.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018698951/fletcher-living-homes-in-central-christchurch-struggle-to-find-buyers

  5. cleangreen 5
    11 June 2019 at 9:02 am

    CEAC supports NZTA estimate on speed limits being too high on most roads,

    We often drive along the entire ‘East Coast Provincial Highway 2’ and it’s network ‘city’ links carrying heavy truck freight to our Ports,

    Napier & Gisborne and in all cases we observe far to high speeds all vehicles are attempting to navigate the narrow winding hilly roads that plague these regions with single lane roads.

    There is an urgent need to reduce the road speeds on these “primary second class roading network roads” to a lower speed. We often see evidence of truck crashes being attributed to these “soft roads” are unable to allow high speed travel safely for those heavy laden unstable vehicles when approaching many sharp corners, roundabouts and intersections.

    When these obstacles are present, high sided laden logging and soft sided trucks are frequently seen to overturn on those locations.

    Nick Leggett of the “Road Transport Forum” (RTF) is correct that a lower truck speed will increase the cost of consumer goods as freight cost will rise and we will all face those price rises, and has our support for that assumption.

    In 2001 we attended a regional HBRC Land transport Committee Forum in Napier’s Marine Parade “War memorial” and the guest speaker was the current 2001 spokesperson of the (RTF) “Road Transport forum” a past National MP Tony Freidlander who began to address the forum with a statement ‘QUOTE’ “we have to face the facts that trucks are ‘not welcome’ so we need to make trucks more acceptable to the community.”

    I later contacted Tony Friedlander when he returned to his home, and we both discussed how to solve the problem then, and we basically agreed NZ regional roads were not designed for trucks, and a better way was to have a separate “dedicated four lane truck route” as are seen most places overseas.

    Our roads are referred to by some roading engineers as “soft roads” due to the ‘unstable soft clay base’ with a low weight bearing capability for trucks, so now when high weight laden trucks that are freely entering our roads that are unable to navigate our narrow winding roads that are actually collapsing the soft pavement of our roads under the weight of the heavier 63 tonne trucks we have all over most soft roads” in NZ the road surfaces are becoming very ‘uneven in contour’ making then difficult to drive on.

    We approached three roading engineers about this issue of our (now named) “soft roads” inability to carry the laden weight of many (HPMV) 63 tonne trucks today; – and they advised us that we need a series of concrete steel reinforced slabs under base placed under our truck routes now.

    We then looked around where we could find these type of roads that were now seen around NZ, and we found only a few sections of the Napier Hastings section of Highway two along the ‘Mangatere straight’ between Clive and Whakatu and that section was constructed with a concrete under-base during the 1940’s second world war era when the US Troops were stationed here and offered to construct this section to assist the movement of heavy trucks to take sheep carcasses to the US forces during the “Pacific war” in 1942 to 1945, and another advised us that the US offered to build an entire heavy road in NZ during that time during the war offering the same US highway standards they use so we missed that opportunity didn’t’ we?

    I lived in Canada and Florida during 1960s to 1990s and saw many truck roads there were being dig up and concrete slabs were placed beneath them, so this is the reality that we need to ‘fund truck routes’ as a ‘toll road system’ as the US and EU does to build proper truck roads.

    Meanwhile we must now move forward to restore rail freight and passenger services in our regions again as our ‘prime mover of freight’ as we had before so we can cope with road transport safely.

    For the medium term now NZTA is right, we need to reduce the speed as NZTA correctly estimated and then plan to design new truck routes with the upgrades to those roads to a 21st century standard using the US style road building and toll road systems.

    • Hamish Stevenson 5.1
      11 June 2019 at 9:43 am

      You can't compare the concrete roads the US have had (since ca 1950) with the situation in NZ. During and after the post war boom, the US built roading infrastructure using thick concrete. This was enabled by their vast limestone resources which they quarried extensively and their burgeoning economy.
      In NZ we built thin flexible pavements using greywacke aggregate basecourse with a sprayed bituminous surface. These roads were fit for purpose until the demise of rail (under Prebble) and the expansion of trucked freight.
      In the late 1990s Opus Central Labs were researching concrete roads for NZ while looking fondly across the Tasman to Australia's new Pacific Highway – which was concrete. They also looked at cement treated basecouse. Neither technology could be justified. NZ could not afford concrete roads and we don't have limestone quarries in the right places (transport of aggregates is the killer). And the lean mix cement basecouses crack and fail.
      So we stick with unbound bases, chipseal and asphalt. What we need is less trucks!

      • WeTheBleeple 5.1.1
        11 June 2019 at 10:01 am

        yes Well said.

      • ianmac 5.1.2
        11 June 2019 at 10:23 am

        In Christchurch there is a mile of concrete road. It runs from Papanui up Main North Road. It was laid certainly before 1950s and was intact for at least 70 years but the last I saw it, it had many star cracks ex earthquake, and each crack was filled with some sort of tar. Must have cost heaps to put down the original concrete road but it lasted for at least 70 years that I know of without much maintaining.

        Cost effective? Very but the outlay must have been horrendous.

        • WeTheBleeple 5.1.2.1
          11 June 2019 at 10:34 am

          I recall marveling over that when driving over it. Concrete roads, it was alien to me.

        • greywarshark 5.1.2.2
          11 June 2019 at 10:59 am

          Well we certainly can't outlay anything to last 70 years. We very possibly will have felt the Alpine Fault earthquake by then already overdue on its 300 year average, movement. Also who knows what we will be doing. It will be good to have roads to drive our horse and carts along, real goers will set up skateboard marathons along them etc.

          So adequate stuff till we get rail to take over much of the produce, localise production and processing again, and cut out glossy magazine production which weigh too much, encourage dissatisfaction amongst the wealthy as they see new toys and lounge suites, also using far too much ink, requiring much processing, and no good for toilet paper. And the piles of glossy magazines that look hardly read that accumulate at op shops will no more have to be dumped at expense to the charity and forming slimy lumps in landfill.

          Glossy magazines like a lot of that glossy life that the wealthy live is just extraneous stuff and the in-reading will become gardening books and those on philosophy and the art of communication and living fully and how to learn different languages and laugh together and learn each others’ arts and cooking styles – see its already happening. May it be so!

          There will be a lot less to cart around in trucks then, and I predict that will happen within ten years.

        • Macro 5.1.2.3
          11 June 2019 at 12:33 pm

          The concrete roads in NZ were mainly built by the US when they were here in the 1940's using NZ as a base for their operations in the Pacific. Many of those roads would have been new or enlargements of existing roads to the hospitals and supply bases they established around NZ. I remember one such road in Mangaroa, by Upper Hutt where they had a large supply base. Another was by the Silverstream Hospital. They had a massive presence here during WW2.

      • greywarshark 5.1.3
        11 June 2019 at 10:50 am

        I think you miss the point Hamish S.

        Thanks for the detail cleangreen – you are well informed. And we better.

      • Siobhan 5.1.4
        11 June 2019 at 11:13 am

        Thanks for that explanation. Now A.T. and I can finally put to rest the inevitable question 'why don't we have concrete roads like America' …which always comes up on our long and noisy road trips.

      • Macro 5.1.5
        11 June 2019 at 12:51 pm

        Mind you the roads on the US are now in a pretty deplorable state – as are their trains. You might recall a couple of weeks ago during "infrastructure week" when Nancy P and Adam S were "stood up" by the Orange Buffoon at the WH. They were there to discuss a $1T bipartisan Infrastructure package aimed at restoring the rapidly deteriorating National roading and rail. Of course Trump didn't really want to have any thing to do with anything that might actually improve things for average Americans, because he would rather have all the attention on himself, and went out to the Rose Garden to give a pre-arranged "impromptu talk" complete with fake outrage, pre-printed signs and script about how he was totally exonerated ,and how hard done by he was.

      • lprent 5.1.6
        11 June 2019 at 5:22 pm

        In NZ we built thin flexible pavements using greywacke aggregate basecourse with a sprayed bituminous surface. These roads were fit for purpose until the demise of rail (under Prebble) and the expansion of trucked freight.

        They also have the property of not being so damn hard to repair after major earthquakes.

        Heavy concrete roads are a real pain when the ground shifts under them. While the roads from something like the large set of Kaikoura earthquakes might take a year or so to reform and repair deformed tarseal roads, it gets to be total pain with a rigid concrete road that fractures.

        In NZ this is particularly noticeable with the US roads that were built here. This around Wellington and the Hutt in the earthquake zone look wrecked at the concrete layer compared to the ones in Auckland. Auckland is (for NZ) relatively earthquake free.

        Personally I think that the US roads are going to get wasted when they get another New Madrid cycle of earthquakes

        • Andre 5.1.6.1
          11 June 2019 at 5:39 pm

          Even if an earthquake doesn't get 'em, if the ground underneath shifts just a little bit so you get a little bit of mismatch between the slabs – it's almost as bad as water torture. Schenectady NY to Scranton PA was several continuous hours of gadunk .. gadunk .. gadunk .. gadunk .. gadunk ..

          Woulda thought they'd be somehow pegged together across the joints to prevent that mismatch. Maybe they were originally pegged with rebar but the winter salt rusted it out.

  6. Ankerrawshark) 6
    11 June 2019 at 10:01 am

    Hey was polled by Curia last night about preferred parties, leaders etc. some interesting things about it. They contacted us by l line. They didn’t ask for much in the way of demographic info. Initially spoke to husband who hates surveys and handed over to me.

    didnt ask age, ethnicity asked about children under 18 years living at home. No income question. Then some rather odd IQ type questions.

    the most interesting thing to me though was the leadership questions. They asked about jacinda, Winston, James Shaw, kelvin d,bridges and Paula b. No Judith………….is this an attempt by Curia to tip the leadership towards Bennett?

    • Puckish Rogue 6.1
      11 June 2019 at 10:07 am

      Jude doesn't need no stinkin' polls, the ground swell support will be enough to sweep her into power!

      Jude is coming!!

      • ianmac 6.1.1
        11 June 2019 at 10:15 am

        Is that Jude or Judas?

      • Incognito 6.1.2
        11 June 2019 at 10:18 am

        After June comes July, not Jude 😉

        • Puckish Rogue 6.1.2.1
          11 June 2019 at 10:28 am

          Jude comes whenever she likes…wait what?

          https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/judith-collins-tempering-talk-of-national-leadership-coup.html

          Gee she comes across well though, intelligent, personable, charismatic…a real leader, the kind of leader the National party, nay NZ, deserves

          I'll bet she wouldn't do a deal with Brian Tamaki

          • Incognito 6.1.2.1.1
            11 June 2019 at 10:30 am

            But will she deal with Hannah? Brian might ride the Harley but Hannah is wearing the trousers, I reckon.

            • Puckish Rogue 6.1.2.1.1.1
              11 June 2019 at 10:42 am

              Not much of a contest, I mean in all seriousness here are Judes credentials:

              ‘In 1977 and 1978 she studied at the University of Canterbury. In 1979 she switched to the University of Auckland, and obtained first an LLB and then a LLM (Hons) and later a Master of Taxation Studies (MTaxS)’

              ‘She worked as a solicitor for four different firms between 1981 and 1990, and then became principal of her own firm, Judith Collins & Associates (1990–2000). In the last two years before election to Parliament, she worked as special counsel for Minter Ellison Rudd Watts (2000–2002)’

              ‘She was active in legal associations, and was President of the Auckland District Law Society (1998–1999) and Vice-President of the New Zealand Law Society (1999–2000). She served as chairperson of the Casino Control Authority (1999–2002) and was a director of Housing New Zealand Limited (1999–2001)’

              She also married a Samoan-Chinese policeman would certainly would have put the cat amongst the pigeons given her conservative background, so while I'm sure Hannah is a very competent women in her own right I don't think it'd be a fair fight…just ask Phil Twyford 🙂

          • Robert Guyton 6.1.2.1.2
            11 June 2019 at 11:01 am

            To use your own word, nay.

          • greywarshark 6.1.2.1.3
            11 June 2019 at 11:11 am

            Hey Jude don't make it bad. Take a sad song and make it better. Remember to let her into your heart. Then you can start to make it better.

            Hmmmm. I don't believe that Jude will make anything better. She is just National-production, Model A-, heartless but will appropriate ours if it suits her.

  7. Puckish Rogue 7
    11 June 2019 at 10:23 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/113359223/nzs-prisons-a-colonial-eyesore-that-should-be-abolished-expert-says

    'He is calling for a prison-free society – which he said should be achievable given prisons did not exist in Aotearoa before Europeans arrived.'

    Yeah nah

    'In the society he envisaged, no-one would go to prison for non-violent offences, drugs would be legalized and anyone currently incarcerated for drug offences would be released.'

    Can't see many people agreeing to letting fraudsters out, I actually agree with decriminalizing any and all drugs for personal use and I'd only agree to releasing them IF the only offence was drug possession for personal use

    However (and I know its not scientific) but there does seem to be a massive correlation between drug use and mental illness in prison so they'd need somewhere secure to be sent to for treatment

    'In extreme cases where offenders needed to be incarcerated for public safety, this would be done on an individual basis and would not rely on the existence of public prisons.'

    I'd agree to this, stick them politicians and lawyers homes

    https://tenor.com/view/dodgeball-kidding-just-gif-4407682

    • WeTheBleeple 7.1
      11 June 2019 at 10:39 am

      Yeah the correlation between drug use and mental illness is a display of self-medication. With the proper care, at least some of that might be curtailed.

      • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1
        11 June 2019 at 10:47 am

        National and Labour have both dropped the ball on this, NZ needs more money pumped into mental health and drug addiction facilities to treat these people

        I mean what do you do with prisoners that swallow razor blades, stand in the cells and hit their heads against the wall, self harm just because they don't want to be moved…answers on a post card please

        • WeTheBleeple 7.1.1.1
          11 June 2019 at 10:50 am

          We are seeing more funding directed to mental health and addictions so hopefully it's not all sopped up by middle men.

          Person's suffering deep trauma require love and care, not cages.

          • greywarshark 7.1.1.1.1
            11 June 2019 at 11:32 am

            Here are some other people we should love and care for, and they would return all we gave them, with interest.

            https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/391720/junior-doctors-strikes-district-health-boards-pay-more-than-19m-for-cover

            Something else we should do is to supervise all placements of managers, Chief Executives to ensure that they have training in the sector suitable for the job. No more generic managers, everyone who is a NZ resident being able to do further training in appropriate leadership and management, and keep the neo lib ec. to a minimum and introduce some keynesian methods into management training.

            Kick out the old economists who are stuck in the doorway from imbibing too much neo lib propaganda. Push them out, they can go away and get a fat-cat job where they still soak in RW bullshit.

            We are a tiny country once punching above our weight, but now being badly coached. Seeing sport is the only thing that seems to have any traction in this country besides getting money, lets apply the same interest that we give to appropriate sports managers and coaches, with less bullying and no sexual harassment, and do a good job of building up our citizens to fighting fit! And regard every one of our citizens as a contender for the Gutsy NZr Most Improved annual awards. And look after our medical carers who are essential for any good, upward moving team.

        • Rosemary McDonald 7.1.1.2
          11 June 2019 at 12:35 pm

          I mean what do you do with prisoners that swallow razor blades, stand in the cells and hit their heads against the wall, ….

          "I spoke of my concern that there were young men in Waikeria…who were not in the right place. "Disturbed people should not be incarcerated there, I said. With the help of government, grants, courts 'should be able to place people in supportive institutions.' Alternatives to imprisonment were a critical need."

          (Marilyn Waring "The Political Years" Chapter '1980' p. 209)

          Reading this book is producing much of my recent 'disillusionment' ,as almost every page is like going through a timewarp. There are seemingly no new issues, just variations on describing them and yet another 'We'll get it right this time!' fanfare announcement for change.

          SSDD

          • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.2.1
            11 June 2019 at 2:41 pm

            Its not that hard to understand is it, prisons should be for criminals and hospitals should be for the mentally ill and never the twain should meet

            • McFlock 7.1.1.2.1.1
              11 June 2019 at 2:46 pm

              But what if the prisoner knew that what they were doing was a crime, and just happen to have a bit of mental illness?

              homourous aside: I read recently that in 1979 the Swedes stopped regarding homosexuality as a mental illness after loads of people called in sick because they were feeling too gay to work that day…

              • Puckish Rogue …
                11 June 2019 at 3:06 pm

                After a couple of days you generally need to produce a doctors note, I'm not sure what you'd produce to prove you're gay…



                • WeTheBleeple …
                  11 June 2019 at 4:12 pm

                  So good. So many of early TV's gay characters were widely loved, shame about the laws/haters.

                  Remember these guys



              • RedLogix …
                11 June 2019 at 5:58 pm

                There is a strong and underacknowledged correlation between brain injury, concussion in particular, and imprisonment. 50 to 80 % of people in criminal justice have a traumatic brain injury.

                https://www.ted.com/talks/kim_gorgens_the_surprising_connection_between_brain_injuries_and_crime?language=en

                • McFlock …
                  11 June 2019 at 6:28 pm

                  Yeah very true.

                  I can't really decide whether my opposition to puckish's view about mental hospitals vs prisons is because it doesn't reflect that people with mental issues are also dicks who commit crimes, while some criminals actually aren't all that bad but they have mental issues that mean they probably wouldn't have committed their crimes (e.g. TBI affecting impulse control, or FAS, or ADHD, or just general social alienation from lifelong learning disabilities). And some might be sane criminals who can be shuttled to prison, while others can be people who are totally in the domain of the mental health system.

                  Or is my opposition because prisons should be more rehabilitative than punitive, so should actually be able to provide decent mental health care for all but the most afflicted patient-prisoners?

                  Or a mixture of both?

                  • RedLogix …
                    11 June 2019 at 6:59 pm

                    Then there was a fascinating interview Kim Hill did with QC Mike Bungay when he retired; for it's time it was a masterpiece. At one point Mike said that in his long experience defending all sorts of people, about 85% of them were otherwise ordinary people caught up in extraordinary circumstances they were either too weak or too damaged to control. The other 15% were truly bad people and he had no compunction about locking them up for as long as possible.

                    In answer to your question 'a mixture of both', that feels to me a decent starting point. Our prisons are necessary, but they are way overused. Instead of a prison muster of 10,000 or so, it should be 1,500.

                    We know there are numerous factors correlated with crime, inequality, colonisation, an uncontrolled temperament, brain injury and leaded petrol are just some that come to mind. This strongly suggests there is no one silver bullet and any strategies need to be multi-generational, and adaptable over time.

                    The good news is that globally serious crime rates are trending downwards from a peak in the 60's. The not so good news is that NZ crime rates remain stubbornly high for reasons that are not entirely obvious.

            • Rosemary McDonald 7.1.1.2.1.2
              11 June 2019 at 3:31 pm

              …and never the twain should meet

              Back in 1980 there was a late night knock on the door of the grotty flat I shared with a friend in an Unnamed Central North Island city. On the door step, looking furtive and worse for wear, were a couple of refugees from Nambassa.

              Long haired and bedraggled and glassy of eye they scuttled in and proceeded to impart to my flatmate a tale of woe involving drugs, a police checkpoint, their Cheech and Chongish effort to conceal said drugs in the engine compartment of their vehicle. As expected, accelerating away from the checkpoint the bundle under the bonnet fell into the moving parts of the engine with noisy and terminal results. The pair had been caught…if it can be described as such as neither had clearly had a rational thought in years…but one reacted with placid resignation (he was tired, man, and just wanted a sleep.)…while the other got angry and began ranting about police brutality etc. One was sent to Waikeria and the other to Tokanui.

              The one they sent to Tok was released very shortly afterwards and allowed to roam free, while the other sent to Waikeria had a sleep and a feed and was feeling much better by the next day. Brain was functioning enough that when he was waiting in an interview room to speak with a lawyer he saw security was pretty much non existent and simply strolled out. Like iron filings to magnets the two met up along the road, scored, partied and ended up on said doorstep.

              Nice enough chappies if scintillating conversation wasn't a priority, and although I'm 199% sure cannabis was the most harmless of their recreational chemicals of choice and availability, I guess they could be described as 'mostly harmless' and a danger only to themselves. They weren't bad, nor mad….at the most a little sad.

              But that was in the days before some seriously strong cannabis and before kitchen sink chemists experimented on real human brains. The days before the widespread use of prescription pharmaceuticals and the huge associated profits.

              By the mid eighties we were beginning to see more of the 'mad or bad or both' and fewer of the 'sad' at the rehab centre I was working in. It was hard to know if the disordered thinking and behaviour were due to the drugs and might wane when weaned off them, or the chemical abuse was to mask an existing psychiatric condition.

              It might just be that there will have to be a meeting of the twain…combination prisons and mental health units…with clients being directed one way or another after substance withdrawal has cleared the pitch.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                11 June 2019 at 5:27 pm

                I wouldn't mind seeing something like this being built:



                But I doubt any government would have the courage to do so, its not exactly a vote winner but it'd be the right thing to do

        • McFlock 7.1.1.3
          11 June 2019 at 2:40 pm

          Depends on whether they were like that when they got there, or whether it's a reaction to their environment.

    • Hamish Stevenson 7.2
      11 June 2019 at 12:13 pm

      The massive correlation is not between drug use and mental illness in prison Puckish Rogue. It is that the people who go to prison are already addicted to drugs and or alcohol, which is due to their being mentally unwell, which is due to the crappy life they have had, which is due to the seemingly unbreakable cycle of trauma, neglect, abuse, and so on, among the sector of our society who are dis-privelleged.

  8. Puckish Rogue 8
    11 June 2019 at 10:31 am

    (I must be bored…)

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113363745/nz-military-20b-shopping-list-planes-boats-soldiers-satellites-and-drones

    'The plan also signals moves to bolster the army with a total of 6000 infantry men and women, by 2035. That signalled the defence force's expectation it would be required to respond to multiple incidents at once – more likely as a result of climate change, than any other reason.'

    Good but I wonder how the teachers will react…

    • WeTheBleeple 8.1
      11 June 2019 at 10:42 am

      I want to see the army moving on climate change. Invites for the community to join in as well. Earthworks like water capture, planting riparian and shore habitats, clean-ups etc. The NZ public is not wary of the armed forces (aren't we lucky) and might take heart in seeing such dedication from our government/forces.

      • Sanctuary 8.1.1
        11 June 2019 at 11:01 am

        The military spend up equation is simple. Increased risks (climate change, super power confrontations) = increased military spending.

  9. bwaghorn 9
    11 June 2019 at 11:01 am

    https://keithwoodford.wordpress.com

    Very interesting read on why the government's policy settings around foreign buyers buying farms for planted

    Short term gain for long term pain.

  10. WeTheBleeple 10
    11 June 2019 at 11:47 am

    Thank you Auckland Zoo for joining the growing number of entities examining their waste streams. Not only is this directly beneficial to our environment, but it encourages other businesses by illuminating an alternative.

    Recyclable steel drinking cups under the label 'Again Again'.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/113386075/single-use-cups-a-thing-of-the-past-at-auckland-zoo

    Yesterday in Western Springs Park the lions in the Zoo next door had a bit of a roaring competition, all the chooks following me suddenly shut up dead still and silent – for a few seconds anyway. smiley

      • greywarshark 10.1.1
        11 June 2019 at 11:56 am

        Poission If you get really good, you may be able to turn it into wine at will. Handy that. Or failing that, we will have to turn to small beer as they had in England for years. Perhaps now we are going back to the future, we need to introduce this brew again which may give us some vim and perhaps fermenting would kill off many of the bugs, but what could we do to get rid of heavy metal traces etc.?

      • WeTheBleeple 10.1.2
        11 June 2019 at 12:06 pm

        Yeah I questioned a Watercare guy testing a reservoir out West.

        "Would you drink Auckland water?"

        "No".

    • greywarshark 10.2
      11 June 2019 at 11:52 am

      Now that is a fascinating image, you and the chooks, is it your charisma of were you leaving a Hansel and Gretel trail of wheat. Good enough for Reddit which seems to gather all the animal pics there ever have been.

      • WeTheBleeple 10.2.1
        11 June 2019 at 12:11 pm

        It started with this HUGE rooster following me picking mushrooms off a field. It just followed me and the hens joined in. Slow day there I only saw a few other people so they were likely just cruising for food.

        One morning very early I was there and it was all misted over. I rounded a corner and caught a guy red-handed with a knife and a duck. It was a large knife… Good morning says I, moving along quickly.

  11. ianmac 11
    11 June 2019 at 11:56 am

    Simon never gives up but now seems a bit pathetic.

    1. Hon SIMON BRIDGES to the Minister responsible for the GCSB: At what specific time on Tuesday, 28 May was he or his office first contacted by GCSB telling him that they had told Treasury that GCSB did not believe any hacking had taken place, and when did he relay that information to his ministerial colleagues or their offices?
    2. Hon SIMON BRIDGES to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s statements and actions in relation to the alleged unauthorised access of Budget 2019 material?
    • Peter 11.1
      11 June 2019 at 1:44 pm

      Wasn't it 3minutes 42 seconds after the time the Junior Staffer took down the petition?

  12. adam 12
    11 June 2019 at 12:39 pm

    So this is how modern censorship works. Start by threatening to ban a video, roll back from that when pointed out historically correct and/or truthful, go on to demotising, finally, make the algorithm move it down the search.

    Fun times people – how about you just put up with being offended occasionally, rather than demand ideas you disagree with, get censored?

    I find the centre left sickening in it's wimpiness and utter lack of spine, yes it offends me! But I don't want to censor it.

    Oh the video, Pocahontas from Biographics.



  13. Peter 13
    11 June 2019 at 2:24 pm

    After that lot in the House I almost feel sorry for Bridges. Not his party. If that's the best the abject lot can up with they deserve what they get.

    • Fireblade 13.1
      11 June 2019 at 2:41 pm

      ….but Judith's floral technicolor dreamcoat is amazing.

    • ianmac 13.2
      11 June 2019 at 2:42 pm

      Bridges tried really hard, and looked more and more desperate when each question about timing was answered fully. Nice to know that the Government timing was accurate and timely. Paula looked more and more beaten and neither looked in the least triumphant.

      To Robertson:

      https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=207106

      To Jacinda:

      https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=207110

      • I feel love 13.2.1
        11 June 2019 at 3:14 pm

        Bizarre stuff, so National are whining about being accused of unauthorised access of the site on the Weds & by Thurs they admit responsibility? It's hard to know what Bridges beef is. He even used the words "unauthorised access" in his question, does he not understand what those words mean? You would think he would shut up about it. #keepsimon

        • McFlock 13.2.1.1
          11 June 2019 at 4:32 pm

          Bridges seems most upset that someone mentioned "hacking" when the GCSB clearly said later that it was "unauthorised access", and that people should apologise for calling him a hacker even though they didn't.

        • Muttonbird 13.2.1.2
          11 June 2019 at 4:50 pm

          What a dummy Bridges is. Unauthorised access it certainly was!

      • McFlock 13.2.2
        11 June 2019 at 3:49 pm

        Jesus Christ how bad can Bridges get. That's just an embarrassment.

        Ardern ate him alive, Peters passed her the salt and pepper.

        • Cinny 13.2.2.1
          11 June 2019 at 4:28 pm

          Ikr, what a crack up 🙂

          Even funnier, the public don't give a flying fork about simons 'leaks' and yet he still thinks it's a big deal.

          winkIt's hilarious. laugh

          Thanks for the links Ian 🙂

        • Psycho Milt 13.2.2.2
          11 June 2019 at 8:26 pm

          I don't understand why they keep raising the issue when it just gives the government an opportunity to highlight their (National's) incredible lack of integrity. It's like he's getting up and saying to Ardern "Please remind everyone about that time I carried out a data breach of a government agency, and when will the government apologise for suggesting I shouldn't have done it?"

          • RedLogix 13.2.2.2.1
            11 June 2019 at 9:02 pm

            Exactly. Despite all the sophistry from National, most people know damn well that if they treated their own employer's confidential information in the same manner, they'd out the door so fast they wouldn't bounce until next Monday.

          • Cinny 13.2.2.2.2
            11 June 2019 at 9:04 pm

            Someone might even name a planet after him enlightenedsurprise

          • Incognito 13.2.2.2.3
            11 June 2019 at 9:21 pm

            It must irk the former prosecutor to be ‘accused’ of hacking. It seems he’d rather be ‘found guilty’ of the lesser charges of “unauthorised access” of a government computer system and publically releasing embargoed material. I didn’t know Simon had principles.

      • ankerawshark 13.2.3
        11 June 2019 at 5:04 pm

        Ianmac @ 13.2 . Jacinda makes mince meat of Simon. He looks ridiculous.

        #lets keep Simon

    • Fireblade 13.3
      11 June 2019 at 3:42 pm

      Simon's effort in Parliament was pathetic.

      It's like fizzle, phut, phut….is that it?

    • greywarshark 13.4
      11 June 2019 at 4:05 pm

      It sounds like a sporting contest. What did the coach think he was doing. An own goal, yet another in the long line of mistakes and fouls. The fans are getting restless etc . It is the people we elected to run the country plus the Opposition who are supposed to ensure we are being governed to a high standard.

      • WeTheBleeple 13.4.1
        11 June 2019 at 4:26 pm

        I'd turf anyone out on their ass who kept repeating the same question after it had been answered. Wasting the time of the entire government to pander to the ego of this belligerent fuckstick.

        • ianmac 13.4.1.1
          11 June 2019 at 4:39 pm

          Judgement Simon?

          I think that Bridges over the last few days has convinced himself that he was in a "Gotcha" time. He would imagine himself denouncing with clever stilletto questions, and then this sad Government and would collapse onto the floor of the Chamber, battered and defeated, and begging for mercy.

          Then the reality hit and he and Paula grasped hands and realised that their Caucus was not amused or impressed and the Government showed nothing but an amused pity.

          • WeTheBleeple 13.4.1.1.1
            11 June 2019 at 4:50 pm

            There is certainly quite the disconnect going on between where he thinks he stands, and where he's headed.

          • Muttonbird 13.4.1.1.2
            11 June 2019 at 4:51 pm

            Problem for Pulla is that she is tied to Bridges and when he goes, she goes.

            • ianmac 13.4.1.1.2.1
              11 June 2019 at 4:57 pm

              Yes Muttonbird. Paula sitting beside Simon today seemed to exude at first a cheering on of Simon but her body talk wilted as each question was answered succinctly. Oops! She quivered.

            • Incognito 13.4.1.1.2.2
              11 June 2019 at 9:24 pm

              I think she can untie herself faster than Houdini.

      • Gabby 13.4.2
        11 June 2019 at 4:59 pm

        Time to chuck the towel over the ropes Goodfellas, your guy's throwing air punches and his legs are going.

  14. greywarshark 14
    11 June 2019 at 9:22 pm

    Bernie Sanders a study of his new approach and his background from Time.

    His approach has changed from going straight to policy, to being involved in the personal struggles. He is listening to the stories.

    https://time.com/longform/bernie-sanders-2020/

    “From the very beginning, he was always concerned about policy. Always concerned about making a meaningful difference. He didn’t have time for the niceties,” Jane Sanders, the Senator’s wife and closest adviser, told me. “He has, over time, really become more—he’s still very issue oriented, but he’s placing focus on the people and the impact that those policies have.”

    That new focus was evident this spring in a less familiar event format for Sanders: intimate, almost confessional town halls. A panel of three or four ordinary citizens would share stories of their hardships, and others in the audience would share their own tales, and Sanders would respond with a mix of awkward sympathy, synthesis of their situations and his stump speech.

    In the theater of a Burlington, Iowa, school one afternoon, three panelists, all women, sat onstage with Sanders. The first, Carrie Duncan, spoke of her trouble getting health insurance: not having coverage when she worked in a school cafeteria in a nonunion job, getting coverage when she landed a union job in an ammunition plant and then losing it again because of rising costs. “The fat cats continue to grow richer by drinking from the big bowls of cream that us little cats get for them,” she said. “It’s time to make the fat cats meow!” A nurse practitioner named Teresa Krueger spoke of living with Type 1 diabetes and her work caring for patients with that condition, many of whom cannot afford insulin, which has surged in price over recent years.

    Then came Pati French. “I’ve been married for 26 years and had three great kids,” she said. “We have had a good life. We have made lots of memories.” Then she told the story of her son. Trevor was into music and politics, and in 2016 he canvassed for Sanders. He also had a pill addiction. He struggled and then he got help and got sober and was seven months clean with his own job and apartment and was proud of himself. Then he felt a surge of anxiety, the old demons returning, and went to a clinic and got 140 pills and instructions to go see a counselor when a vacancy came up. But he didn’t get in before an accidental overdose killed him. “We have never been the same,” French said. Sanders, turning bright red and somber with emotion, reached out and gave her a few comforting pats.

    The audience began to give their testimonies. A woman spoke of the dearth of mental health care resources and how she had lost two of her friends to suicide and seen others struggle to get help—“including myself, who I have almost lost many times.” A man who works at McDonald’s spoke of scraping by on nine bucks an hour. A man from the local steel plant spoke of jobs vanishing to India and the Czech Republic. And a woman who grew up on a family farm spoke of crop prices falling and bankruptcies climbing.

    He may be watching our PM and her message very closely.

    The 2020 presidential campaign of Bernie Sanders, the junior United States Senator and former Congressman from Vermont, began with Sanders's formal announcement on February 19, 2019.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders_2020_presidential_campaign

  15. greywarshark 15
    11 June 2019 at 9:38 pm

    In the UK Corbyn seems to stand strongly while emotions wash around him, and that staunchness itself provokes more emotion.

    10/6/2019

    In his speech before the interventions, the Labour leader said the party must unite to take on the “dangerously damaging policies” of the Tory leadership candidates, including tax cuts that will benefit the richest, attacks on abortion rights, and a “race-to-the-bottom no-deal Brexit”.

    He said Labour was committed to working cross-party to stop no deal. “To break the Brexit deadlock, we need to go back to the people. Let the people decide the country’s future, either in a general election or through a public vote on any deal agreed by parliament,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/10/jeremy-corbyn-lambasted-by-labour-mps-in-worst-meeting-as-leader

    The EU on the UK – UGH!

    Brussels is tuning in to the Westminster drama of the Tory leadership race – with both amazement and exasperation.

    “People in Brussels are fed up that the political class in the UK has gone a little bit crazy,” Jean-Claude Piris, a former head of the European council’s legal service said. British politicians seemed to have gone “on holiday”, since gaining the extension, he added.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/11/eu-view-of-tory-leadership-candidates-deeply-critical-say-sources

    And just for a bit of a change:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/11/kim-jong-nam-half-brother-north-korea-leader-was-cia-informant

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/11/fraser-anning-candidate-given-queens-birthday-honour

    A professor who advocates for sex with robots and ran as a candidate for Fraser Anning’s far-right micro-party at the May election, has been awarded a Queen’s birthday honour.

    Adrian Cheok was made a member of the Order of Australia for “significant service to international education”. (Inter-alia perhaps.)

  16. Eco maori 16
    12 June 2019 at 8:39 am

    Kia ora The Am Show.

    The subbies are put under a lot of pressure by the big corporations companies that's the way I see it

    Good Phil and the Auckland Council for declaring climate change a emergency ka pai and Christchurch Nelson have declared climate change as a emergency.

    simon shonky was pro carbon so don't go complaining about Phil making good choices on climate change in Auckland.

    Duncan the only one waffling is you any thing positive about policy and publicity on climate change is awesome.

    That's the way Amanda you stand firm on your opinion the grey hair is genetic Mark.

    The Helicopter crash in New York would have scared a lot of people it was good of the Pilot to crash the Helicopter on top of a building and not in the crowded streets of New York there could have been heaps of people losted .

    YES people we need to donate more blood and plasma please to help our people who need it.

    Flying taxis is awesome I hope it all works out for them the testing in real life with passengers and testing in cities airspace.

    Coscos landing in Aotearoa is cool the retailers have had it to sweet in Aotearoa for to long a bit more competition is long overdue for the grocery trade.

    With the flying taxis Simon that is the reason Aotearoa has to embrace 5G technologies that is needed for all the data the self flying taxis and cars need for them to operate safer. Someone is holding back humanity advance in technology . We need to take the advance in technology to combat climate change.

    Ka kite ano

  17. Eco maori 17
    12 June 2019 at 12:45 pm

    Eco Maori thanks Therasa May enshrining in LAW commitments to a net zero carbon emissions by 2050 ka pai

    Theresa May has sought to cement some legacy in the weeks before she steps down as prime minister by enshrining in law a commitment to reach net zero carbon emissions by 2050, making Britain the first major economy to do so.

    The commitment, to be made in an amendment to the Climate Change Act laid in parliament on Wednesday, would make the UK the first member of the G7 group of industrialised nations to legislate for net zero emissions, Downing Street said ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/11/theresa-may-commits-to-net-zero-uk-carbon-emissions-by-2050

  19. Eco maori 19
    12 June 2019 at 4:45 pm

    I agree we should not be concerned about the cost to mitigate climate change. Climate changes will cause heaps of damage and loss to the Papatuanuku/world so nitpicking about the cost of climate changes is irrelevant and just a DISTRACTION thrown up by oil barons and their PUPPETS.

    Imagine if the Australian and UK governments declined to participate in the war in Iraq because the price of bombs was a bit high. Imagine if the US waited for the price of nuclear missiles to fall before participating in an arms race with Russia. Or imagine if we criticised people for spending more on their cars, clothes or food than was “necessary”.

    'Big stick' energy bill: Coalition MP wants economy-wide power to break up big companies

    The idea that we need to weigh the costs of reducing greenhouse gas emissions with the benefits of doing so is so widespread in Australia that it’s difficult to see how absurd – and uncommon – such an approach is. While economics textbooks suggest that we should solve all problems in such a manner, the simple fact is we solve almost no problems that way. Take cars for example.

    Cars are a very expensive way to move around a city. The private costs of buying, fuelling and maintaining a car are relatively high, and then there are the social costs. Without massive public investment in roads, tunnels and bridges, cars are virtually worthless. And then there are the costs of noise pollution, air pollution and congestion that car drivers impose on other citizens Ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/11/its-cheap-to-tackle-climate-change-but-that-isnt-the-reason-to-do-it

  20. Eco maori 20
    12 June 2019 at 6:26 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    It a shame all the tamariki being taken from there mother and whanau.

    Condolences to the boy who was run over by a truck in Auckland today.

    If you look at that man who killed Nicole you can see he is emotion less phyco Paddy I won't say anymore.

    UBER air flying electric power taxis is cool I say if technology was not held back by the ruling class this would have happened years ago.

    Eco Maori will believe that Kim's brother was caught in the spiders web reference Ambush in the night Bob Marley.

    Its very cool Mel and his 50 + brass band he is turning 100 congressional Mel .

    Ka kite ano.

  21. Eco maori 21
    12 June 2019 at 6:48 pm

    Kia ora te ao Maori news.

    Teuku waka Marae it's sad to see the police involved and putting the story on Facebook I'm not sure whom is correct but putting people down on Facebook is not on.

    I have stated that sips just gave them selves a Maori name but forgot the kauppa Maori that system needs to learn to love and respect Maori tangata it is good that the government has given $80 million the help Whanau Ora with all the tamariki in bad care it is well needed after the underfunding that national gave for the under privileged child services this is there MESS our new Government has to clean up Pene I know how you feel with your mahi kia kaha.

    Ka kite ano