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Open mike 11/04/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 11th, 2013 - 188 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

188 comments on “Open mike 11/04/2013 ”

  1. big bruv 1

    Can anybody tell me why putting more money into front line health services is such a bad thing?

    Another great move from Tony Ryall.

    • Te Reo Putake 1.1

      Who says any money will go into front line health services? And why do you think nutrition is not a front line health service?

    • Descendant Of Sssmith 1.2

      1. It’s not more money. Not a single extra cent.
      2. How is feeding patients not front-line
      3. Cheap pre-processed meals is not better
      4. People will lose their jobs which means less money is those communities
      5. A food issue re contamination will now be a national issue, encompass more hospitals, kill more people and be more difficult And costly to control.
      6. Much more difficult to adjust diet to individual needs eg allergy to ginger, versus allergy to nuts, vs allergy to eggs, etc
      7. Profit means a direct loss of money from the health sector for private gain. I’m assuming that every time Te company makes a dollar you’ll be saying “pay them less pay them less” and you’ll be supporting the transfer of profit back to the government so that more frontline health services can be delivered.

      Ryman would be the classic example – profit massively increased but not being returned to govt through cheaper services which is supposed to be the point isn’t it. Your taxpayer money now building rest homes in Australia.

      • Lanthanide 1.2.1

        “1. It’s not more money. Not a single extra cent.”

        big bruv’s point is that money that was spent on the food being done in the hospital can now be directed to other parts of the health system, since the privitisation of food is supposed to save money.

        • Colonial Weka

          I’d like to know how that works. Don’t private companies have to make a profit?

          • Lanthanide

            Beats me, I’m just re-stating what big bruv was saying, doesn’t mean I agree with him.

            But it is possible to gain cost savings if the private provider is providing the service in a more efficient way: for the same or less amount of money you can get the same or better output, that’s called increased efficiency.

            In this case I believe it is something about providing all of the countries hospital food from central locations, thus gaining efficiencies through economies of scale.

            Of course there is no reason that the public/government couldn’t also harness efficiencies through economies of scale and make the same or better savings, except that they choose not to.

            • Colonial Viper

              But it is possible to gain cost savings if the private provider is providing the service in a more efficient way: for the same or less amount of money you can get the same or better output, that’s called increased efficiency.

              “Increased efficiency” – screw your workers and suppliers so that corporate shareholders can make a buck in other words.

              Let’s not dance around semantics, we’ve been around this neoliberal speak long enough to know what it means.

              Do you want to know how to truly increase efficiencies? Look at the big picture, not siloed accounting cost centres.

              • Colonial Viper

                By the way, can we get away from the idea that removing money from working families is somehow “efficient”. Bloody hell, 30 years on and we’re still all dumbasses.

        • freedom

          and as soon as a profit is attached to a scenario, that cost comes out of services so in order to supply the same service, costs rise. This is not complicated, unless you choose it to be.

          Add in the costs and the logistical quagmire, creating a National Food Service is simply unworkable if saving money is the goal.

          Which raises the obvious question . .
          Is Quorn on the menu

          • Colonial Weka

            We can look at the state funded homehelp services that were privatised in the 90s. Instead of services being run out of DHBs or by direct funding clients to contract employ their own workers, services were contracted out. We now have multiple businesses offering homehelp services in each area. That = multiple CEOs, and mutiple upper and middle management that didn’t exist before.

            If every client hour is funded at something like $20 or $25, and the workers are getting $13 or $14/hr, that leaves on average $10/hr for administration of the system.

            I’d love to see an audit of how much money was ‘saved’ by using this model, and a comparison with how DHB/MoH services could have been made more efficient.

            (the MoH is now implementing direct to client funding again, precisely because agencies are often not able to deliver services that clients need within the funding).

            • Descendant Of Sssmith

              It’s worse than that though. Apart from the lower wages I was in a meeting with a DHB group some time after this period where an accountant at the DHB gained my total respect for being the only DHB person to raise concern that staff in these private firms were doing many unpaid hours and that if the real hours of work were paid costs would rise significantly and how it was not fair on those workers.

              It was clear both the DHB management and the private providers well knew about the free hours they were garnering and not paying for.

              My family have oft worked in that sector and I know for a fact that they have done this regularly. The time travelling between clients is also not paid for in many, many cases and of course the client is using their own vehicle whereas this used to be provided.

              These things are not cost saving they simply shift the cost to the worker while taking the savings out in profit.

              • Draco T Bastard

                These things are not cost saving they simply shift the cost to the worker while taking the savings out in profit.


                That’s happening across the labour force especially for dependent contractors. All the costs are being dropped on the contractors so that the business can make a larger profit. Meanwhile, due to the increase in the number of those costs from one (the business) to many (the contractors) we actually have the costs increasing. There are people out there who are quite literally paying to go to work and the only way they can afford to live is because of things like WfF, the Accommodation Supplement and other government welfare payouts.

                As you say, the costs have just been shifted but it saves nothing, it just makes a few people richer at everyone else’s expense.

                • Descendant Of Sssmith

                  Remembered another example.

                  Hotel industry mates were laughing at this and not expecting any savings to be made.


                  Orbit in particular clip the ticket at both ends – charging fees to the government and charging fees to the hotels they “use”.

                  The fees they charge the hotels are also in US dollars.

                  They thought any intended savings will simply be eaten up by the hotel fees being passed back via increased accommodation costs.

                  Most government agencies already had good deals as the companies previously competed against each other for their business.

    • halfcrown 1.3

      This is nothing else but privatisation by stealth, the same way as that right wing prat called Camoron is doing in the UK.

      • big bruv 1.3.1

        Privatisation by any means is something to be applauded.

        • logie97

          Can you explain where the capitalist notion of competition sits in this one when it will be given to a monopoly?

        • Draco T Bastard

          Not according to the figures. Privatisation costs far more and provides less of a service than a state monopoly.

        • BLiP

          Oh, look what the amnesty has dragged in. Jeeeze . . . the things you see when you ain’t got your rifle.

        • halfcrown

          Hey Big Bruv as you are a lover of privatisation I take it you are for the idea reported in the UK Daily Mail that in the spirit of Thatcherism they privatise her funeral and put it out to the lowest bidder.

          • Colonial Viper

            For the sake of efficiency just put her body in the ground and hammer some stakes in. You know, just to mark the spot.

    • Murray Olsen 1.4

      No one can tell you anything because there is too much shit coming out of your head and spraying in all directions. Why should this topic be any different?

  2. big bruv 2

    Now, now Te Reo. Let’s just stick to the facts please.

    The minister said that the money saved would go back into front line health services, and this is a minister who keeps his word. That is just one of the differences between the way that Ryall has handled Health and the shocking and corrupt way that Labour ran the health portfolio.

    As for nutrition, are you really suggesting that hospital food could get worse if it was contracted out to another firm?…lol

    Hospital food can only get better under the model proposed by Ryall, nobody seriously believes that it could get any worse.

    • Te Reo Putake 2.1

      The farce is strong with this one …

    • Descendant Of Sssmith 2.2

      The times I’ve had family in hospital the food has been fine and much better that the food my wife got when in a private hospital.

      It’s not an issue over quality.

      And to add to my list above:

      8. National typically destroy services in the public sector when these decisions are made so if it doesn’t work it will have gutted the hospital kitchens to make it more expensive for later governments to put it back
      9. More arsehole trucks and truck drivers on the roads
      10. Increased risk of failure
      11. Less community resource in civil defence situations

      • Rob 2.2.1

        “9. More arsehole trucks and truck drivers on the roads.”

        Yes because at the moment all the raw cooking ingrediants that are used in the hospital kitchens are teleported in. Unfortunatly that will have to stop under this current outsourcing proposal as trucks although a bit smelly and large are in fact real.

        • McFlock

          Look at the amount of packaging around a couple of kilos of veges or meat.
          Now look at the amount of packaging around a microwave dinner.

          That difference will go on the roads.

          • Rob

            Obviously no use of plastic plates and heating lids in your world either, which is what is being used currently.

            • McFlock

              You can talk and talk, but there will always be empty space in the packaging of a prepared meal. Plates can be stacked and minimise that space, but not if they’re full of bland factory food.

            • freedom

              that is fine for rolling carts down a corridor but how is that a viable way to transport food safely hundreds of kilometres?

              All food will have to be individually packaged as per airline food
              and that is known to be an expensive and ongoing logistical science that i simply do not trust to someone where private profit against public good is the equation. If profit is the goal we all know where this scenario leads, reduced services and supply problems and rising costs. If you deny profit is the goal then I ask you why is it changing and what benefit can be brought to the Health Sector with this staggering change in the basic operation of its food Services?

      • McFlock 2.2.2

        the food I’ve had on planes is worse than the food in hospitals.

    • vto 2.3

      big bruv, do you know why hospitals have generators?

      Do you know why food is prepared on site?

      This puts New Zealanders lives at considerable risk next time there is some form of disaster.

      This government disgusts me – putting lives at risk so there is more money available to pay for rich farmers irrigation. I don’t want people like this in the same society as me. As far as I am concerned people like you are from another world. I have nothing in common with you or people like you. I spit in your face.

      • northshoredoc 2.3.1

        The vast amount of hospital food is not prepared on site in NZ at the moment and hasn’t been for some time.

        • vto

          Sure, the potatoes are grown elsewhere, and various other…

        • freedom

          northshoredoc is correct, some foods are prepared ‘down the road’ or ‘across town’

          This is however rather different from being prepared many hundreds of kilometres away.
          The volume of potential hazards in this plan outweigh any and every short term financial gain. Even before you begin to take into account the ever growing social costs to the communities depending upon the food preparation staff, and the associated businesses and suppliers.

      • Populuxe1 2.3.2

        The other danger is that the greater the distance between point of preparation and hospital, the more change there is of contamination, which is going to be horrendously dangerous for immuno-comprimised patients.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.4

      The minister said that the money saved would go back into front line health services, and this is a minister who keeps his word.

      He’s National minister ergo, he’s lying. There won’t be any savings but there will be profits.

      As for nutrition, are you really suggesting that hospital food could get worse if it was contracted out to another firm?


      I’ve never had a problem with hospital food. Don’t understand why people say it’s horrible. It’s like they’ve got hold of a meme and won’t let it go.

      Hospital food can only get better under the model proposed by Ryall, nobody seriously believes that it could get any worse.

      I think we’ll find that it can get worse. That’s the normal mode of operation in private businesses doing government services after all.

      • TheContrarian 2.4.1

        “I’ve never had a problem with hospital food. Don’t understand why people say it’s horrible.”

        Shorter Draco:

        “I don’t mind it therefore it is fine and everyone else is wrong”

        • Draco T Bastard

          So, what’s wrong with hospital food?

          Sure, it’s not 5 star restaurant quality but then it’s not a 5 star restaurant. It’s edible, probably healthy and that’s all it really needs to be.

          • TheContrarian

            I have never been in hospital so couldn’t say but because YOU don’t mind it doesn’t mean everyone else should be fine with it.

            • McFlock

              So you really can add nothing to the conversation then?
              That’s a change.

              DTB didn’t say everyone else should be fine with it.
              Just asked wtf was wrong with it.
              As far as you know, absolutely nothing is wrong with it.

            • fender

              So because you have never been in hospital or obviously never spoken to anyone who knows about hospital food why do you bother having your say despite your confession that you couldn’t say?

              You just like stalking Draco don’t you? Good if you do, hopefully you will wake up soon to the sense his comments contain.

              • TheContrarian

                Draco makes me laugh. His comments are more baffling than sensible.

                “never spoken to anyone who knows about hospital food”
                I have known many people who have been in hospital. Draco doesn’t understand why people have a problem because he doesn’t have a problem with it. He seemingly doesn’t realise that other people aren’t Draco and don’t enjoy the things he does.

                • ghostrider888

                  personally speaking, i too have to take a leak (Decker bladder and all that tucking to the left, but yes, for an obviously clever person, what will you contribute beyond wooden pip-fruit?

                • McFlock

                  But that’s a tautology. Of course different people have problems with different things, even if we put it down crudely to “enjoyment”.

                  The question was why.

                  If we know the why, then issues can be addressed. If we make arbitrary changes without knowing why something might not be up to scratch, we risk repeating or even worsening the problem.

                  Maybe hospital food has a bad rap because of the way it was prepared thirty years ago?
                  Or maybe because anything you eat when you’re nauseous and in pain becomes associated with that experience?
                  Or maybe because bulk catering is always going to be a bit run-of-the-mill, but centrally-produced TV dinners will be worse?
                  Maybe a bit less salt or more options with condiments would make all the difference?

                  Or maybe the people bitching about hospital food are just playing up a tired old myth from decades ago in order to justify redundancies and giving airline food to people who are in no position to walk out of there?

                  • TheContrarian

                    “Or maybe the people bitching about hospital food are just playing up a tired old myth from decades ago in order to justify redundancies and giving airline food to people who are in no position to walk out of there?”

                    I like airline food (though my most recent experience wasn’t great)

                    • ghostrider888

                      that is slick Continental

                    • McFlock

                      Generally, so do I, although the coffee bites.

                      But I wouldn’t want to live on it for two weeks while I have tubes in my arms and various other places and a general amount of discomfort.

                      That’s why cruise ships don’t use airline food service rules, from what I’ve heard.

      • Colonial Weka 2.4.2

        “I’ve never had a problem with hospital food. Don’t understand why people say it’s horrible. It’s like they’ve got hold of a meme and won’t let it go.”

        I’d struggle with hospital food, because it is so different from what I eat usually. Remember, people who are in hospital are often at their most vulnerable and/or feeling like shit. Food is very core to our sense of wellbeing, so I can understand why hospital food attracts criticism.

        I’m guessing there is also the issue of any food prepared on a mass scale – it’s always going to have that overdone, been sitting waiting for too long look (and taste) about it.

        I’m not sure how healthy it is or not. Can you still get butter in a hospital? 😉 (I think butter is healthy for most people).

        • Rogue Trooper

          Butter IS healthy for most people Weka; it is a staple down the club-house; all good things in moderation; (spotted the slippery royal). 😉

        • clashman

          I just had a short spell in Tga hospital. No butter only margarine and a “fruit” drink with breakfast that was water, sugar, colour flavouring. So I’m not sure how much emphasis is placed on the food being healthy.
          I eat pretty basic fare at home and I’m not finicky about food, I eat most of the stuff the rest of the family wont touch because its old, or the bread thats a bit dry etc.
          The food in Tga hospital was absolutely dire. Rock hard kumara, corned beef so salty it was inedible, the “hot” food was barely lukewarm which raises the issue of if it was ever heated properly in the first place. Another issue I noted was that the food was not as advertised for eg a quiche that was said to not contain green vegetables was full of broccoli. It wasnt an issue for me but if your not suppossed to be eating green veges for some reason…
          Now I am not a fan of outsourcing and dont agree that this is a sensible approach for many reasons but imo the food at Tga hospital couldnt get any worse.
          I’d eat airline food over what was served to me every time.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Ok, that sounds atrocious and obviously something needs to be done about it. I’ve never had anything like that served to me in hospital. Sure, it’s often had the been sitting round too long in the warmer feel to it but I doubt if delivering it from across town is going to change that.

            Actually, what you describe is what you’d get if you put someone without experience or training in charge of the food and paid them SFA.

            • Colonial Viper

              Or if some contractor somewhere was trying to fulfil a service contract as cheaply as possible and no one at the DHB with enough authority gives a fuck.

          • karol

            Sounds awful. It also wasn’t my experience when I was in hospital. I was pleasantly surprised at the quality and choice of food.

  3. how do the bastards sleep at night..?


    “….how do they f*cken sleep at night..?

    ..all of them..from key/bennett down to their foot-soldier zealots/lackies in work and income..

    ..those doing the face-to-face cutting..those who get to stare into their victims’ eyes..

    ..how do they all f*cken sleep at night..?..”


    phillip ure..

    • TheContrarian 3.1

      Phillip, both you and Penny Bright have the most irritating manner of posting.
      Penny with her shouty caps and long screeds and you with your:


      “..more gibberish..”

      Wouldn’t it be easier to write sentences?

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

        What bugs me about him most is that he links to his site and then has a link to the site that he’s quoting from. He almost never says anything in the posts himself or if he has he’s successfully hidden it in that awful format he uses.

        Classic link whoring.

        • TheContrarian

          Yeah – he was a menace on kiwiblog for the same reason.

          • lprent

            Got warned about link whoring here last time as I remember it, argued, and then required an education in the traditional manner about who actually ran this site.

            I don’t really mind link whoring provided there is a *clear* description of what people will find in the link and it is relevant to the post or is in OpenMike. Unfortunately the ellipsis coding system appears remove clarity and leave the uncoded text as gibberish with a low information content.

            Ummm. I wonder how efficient I could write code to drop … to a single dot at the end of a line, and to remove them from the start of a line.

            Penny is usually ok. If they get too long then I have been known to edit out the cut’n’paste or warn. Similarly when she is excessiveky stricken with a capitals disease, I find that I can shrink the problem with style=”font-size:7px”. Like all good Samaritans I don’t find the lack of thanks for these selfless deeds to be a problem – but the reduction of diseased symptoms afterwards is always gratifying.

            • phillip ure

              so..iprent/monitor..just to clarify..posting a link to an original piece is ‘link-whoring’..and not allowed..?

              but you say that if i put an explanation as to what the original comment is about..that is ok..?

              phillip ure..

              • lprent

                Link-whoring as far as I’m concerned is a behaviour that is designed to either leave lots of links around the net to raise google ratings via search engines spiders and/or designed to get people to click a link to see what is in there.

                What I look for is something like this…

                1. I get concerned when there is not enough information for readers to make an informed decision about if they should hit a link without hitting it. If there isn’t enough information to do that or what is provided is quite inaccurate when I click in, then I’ll deem it as come-on link-whoring.

                2. If it is off-topic for the post or out of context for the thread then I’ll also treat it as a link-whoring behaviour. We aren’t here to provide random advertising space.

                3. If it is in OpenMike as a top-level comment, then I expect to see an argument or announcement sufficient that people can comment against that rather than having to click the link. I also don’t expect to see too damn many of them. If I find your posts good enough when I click in then I’ll often add a site to the RSS feed

                The idea is that if you want to leave links to your site, then you have to provide value for the readers of this site. I think that most people would think that those are acceptable and quite lenient guidelines.

                My behaviour is usually quite abrupt. I usually just give an educational ban to anyone that I view as link-whoring. If repeated then I’ll reach for a semi-permanent ban pretty fast as it just wastes my time. I then add the site URL to the auto-spam to discourage people from going to sites that link-whore traffic.In extreme cases I’ll list the site in website blacklists.

        • phillip ure

          so..draco..damned if i do..and damned if i don’t..eh..?

          ..the above link is one of those ‘successful hidden’ original ones..

          ..phillip ure..

      • Colonial Weka 3.1.2

        The difference between Phil and Penny is that Penny, while still annoying, at least is posting about something relevant and is going good work. I don’t know what Phil says or does, because I can’t get past the …., but am guessing that as suggested it is straightout link whoring (of the sleazy not the power-whore kind).

        • Tigger

          I’ve never found Penny’s posts annoying. The post lays out the info and provides necessary links. What’s the issue?

      • phillip ure 3.1.3

        are you contrarian in name only..?..there..contrarian..

        ..i have been writing this way for years..it isn’t done especially to annoy you..eh..?

        ..funnily enough..i find your voluntary-slavery to the irrationalities of the capital-letter/sentence regime/structure..quite quaint..( i mean..you don’t talk like that..?..)

        ..please explain to me the logic behind the (ugly/brutish) capital-letter..eh..?

        ..and ‘mr’/mrs’..?..w.t.f.is that all about..?

        ..a relic/consolation-prize-title from the british class system..

        ..(‘you are a peasant..but here..you can call yrslf mr..does that feel better..?..and you can even capitalise the ‘m’..’..)

        ..i can also do dashes instead of dots..? – if that would annoy less..?

        ..(also my caps lock is broken – .eh..? – someone broke in and superglued it..

        ..i took it as a sign – eh..?..

        ..wouldn’t you..?..)

        ..phillip ure..

        • Te Reo Putake

          Truman Capote on Kerouac: “That’s not writing, that’s typing”

          • Clockie

            From the Kerouac article in Wikipedia:

            “Allen Ginsberg, initially unimpressed, would later be one of its great proponents, and indeed, he was apparently influenced by Kerouac’s free-flowing prose method of writing in the composition of his masterpiece “Howl”. It was at about the time that Kerouac wrote The Subterraneans that he was approached by Ginsberg and others to formally explicate his style. Among the writings he set down specifically about his Spontaneous Prose method, the most concise would be Belief and Technique for Modern Prose, a list of 30 “essentials”.”

        • karol

          There’s a different communication system for writing and talking. Talking has clues like intonation, pauses, loudness, facial expressions to punctuate it. Writing has developed different conventions that most of us recognise.

          PS: if it makes you happy to write like that, go for it. Just don’t expect everyone to read it. Some may like it. It just irritates my brain.

        • fender

          This is ‘loudshirt’ typing isn’t it ..phillip ure..



        • Rhinocrates

          voluntary-slavery to the irrationalities of the capital-letter/sentence regime/structure..quite quaint

          I find that under you faux-radical use of the ellipsis that your residual, indeed fundamental slavery to residual syntax and spelling a bourgeois-liberal compromise that is in fact a betrayal of the true syntactical liberationary movement.

          To be truly free, half-measures are not enough, one m,ust abondon al!l conne£ction with conventional symbol-object meaning and argle blargle bleep!



          …. Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn…

          Su…relyy…ou u…nder…s…tand…?… eh?

          Only then we will achieve true understanding and freedom. Oh damn, that was coherent…

          • Colonial Viper


          • karol

            heh. yes, it’s the repetitive use of the …. that hurts my brain. It’s the equivalent in speech of someone speaking in a monotone, or mumbling because it seemed cool and kinda natural when Brando did it. Or maybe like someone repetitively using one hand gesture when speaking

            • Clockie

              Progressives who dislike free spirits. I love it.

              • Rhinocrates

                Free? He is not free!

                [link to blog]

                …Indeed, he is a deception, foisted upon us to imagine that by mild half-gestures we can be free.

                ../.>>>>>Do you imagine that the mere eye-bleedingly nonsensi…cal abuse of the ellipsis is “free”?

                …Do you imagine even that the abandonment of syntax i…s “free”? No, it is not…!…. eh?


                [link to blog]

                eh….?…. eh? [link to blog]

                … We must over come the quant supposition that words correspond to any fixed meaning, because that is totalitarian …eh …[link to blog] nonsense. When someone says “cat” and another person understands that they mean a furry ….eh?


                …animal that purrs and has claws, then clearly the two are subservient to an awful totalitarian system of language… eh? [link to blog]

                To be truly free they must wigll….ejhiowuhfc!…eh?

                and ony87ewrgerwhnnhu!…eh?

                and furthermore, they must o23adoe….eh?

                eh?… eh? …eh? …eh? …eh? [link to blog… eh?]

                … comprehension is collusion… eh? No-one who is comprehensible to another is free, nor is the one who is able to comprehend…eh?

                …eh? [link to… eh… blog… eh… eh… eh…eh…?????]

                Lock him in a room with David Shearer and see what happens: “Eh? Um… Eh? Um…”

            • Colonial Weka

              OR SHOUTING.

              It hurst my brain too, not just visually, but why would someone who is intent on communicating then continuously use tools that undermine that communication?

    • ghostrider888 3.2

      yes. 21 of 35 for child poverty, 24 of 35 for homicide of children.
      the commentator on tele-” Not the size of the economy that correlates with child-well-being equality, but government settings, e.g as in the U.K Child Poverty Act measures, looking at the income of families and school meals fro example.

      anyway, Lyin’, cheatin’, hurtin’, that’s all they seem to do, yet there Time is Gonna Come…

      freakin Paper Plus Publishers!

  4. Te Reo Putake 4

    Terrific summary of some of the best comments about Thatcher from, er, the Daily Mail:


    • Colonial Weka 4.1

      Liked this one –

      FRANKIE BOYLE: The comedian tweeted: ‘All that Thatcher achieved was to ensure that people living in Garbage Camps a hundred years from now will think that Hitler was a woman.’

  5. outofbed 5

    Glenda JacksonMP “tribute” to Thatcher

    Worth a listen

  6. Adrian 7

    So the meals will be delivered daily by ROAD. That would have worked really well in the CHCH quake when all the bridges were closed on SH 1 while checked, and all the casualties will starve whwn Wellington cops it.

    • Colonial Viper 7.1

      It’ll be even better when the meal production centre is reduced to a pile of rubble and the kitchens crushed under 200 tonnes of building materials.

      • ghostrider888 7.1.1

        according to the Southern Fault Quake boffins, dinner will be served sometime in the next 50 years.

    • Colonial Weka 7.2

      “and all the casualties will starve whwn Wellington cops it.”

      Kitchens aside, surely we are no longer under the illusion that when the next big quake hits, NZ will have an adequate response?

  7. One data centre to rule them all?

    It is interesting that after so many data disasters this year the Government is thinking of having one big collection of data. Imagine the damage that could be caused by a stuff up.

    But I can hear the PR jargon already.

    Of course the new system will be robust, it will feature world best practice, privacy will be given high priority, the technology will be cutting edge, and everyone will give 110% to make sure that it works.

    But why do I find this proposal scary?

    • Tim 8.1

      Dangerous Enthusiasms!

    • Huginn 8.2

      From the GCSB’s website, at the top of the list of jobs that it does, comes . . .

      Information Assurance (IA)

      ‘As communications technologies advance, the need to protect information carried by those technologies also grows.

      There are two main reasons to protect information. Firstly the confidential information of the Government of New Zealand needs to be protected from unauthorised disclosure. This means that Government departments can communicate information securely. Secondly there is a requirement to protect information and infrastructure from corruption by malicious ‘attack’, the most common form of which is the humble computer virus.’


      Maybe they’ve been a little bit distracted this last little while.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.3

      One data centre to rule them all?

      Nothing wrong with the idea just so long as it is done properly and there are at least two real time backups in different locales.

      But why do I find this proposal scary?

      Because it’s being done by a National government?

      • The Murphey 8.3.1

        The problem lies with the technical difficulties of any such venture, it should be a non starter by default.

        Not that this would prevent the private sector raking in vast quantities of public funds, while gaining even deeper access to the valuable data cache, while attempting to investigate the feasibility.

        It’s a necessary step in the road to outsourcing IT services, those which are not already handled by the private sector, in any case. Part of any DC consolidation programme, will involve the Hardware/Software/Infrastructure as a service model being rolled out.

        No, this is not an exercise that any NZ government should be embarking on, although I expect that the AKL Council will already be going through the phases of trying something similar, following the amalgamation, and no doubt being monitored centrally, by the same vendors who will be hoovering up Auckland money on Council the council programme.

        Expect to see failure, blame and fault avoidance on all sides if this moves into initiation!

        • Draco T Bastard

          The problem lies with the technical difficulties of any such venture, it should be a non starter by default.

          Not that this would prevent the private sector raking in vast quantities of public funds, while gaining even deeper access to the valuable data cache, while attempting to investigate the feasibility.

          I think you’ll find that it’s feasibility has already been proved. And that’s just one that’s commercially available.

          It’s a necessary step in the road to outsourcing IT services, those which are not already handled by the private sector, in any case.

          It could be used to do that, yes, and this government is probably fantasising about the profits that they can divert to rich mates with it. But it is also, IMO, a necessary step in getting better government services. It’s ridiculous in this day and age that someone can deal with one government department, give all their details and then go to another government department only to find that you have to give the details again.

          No, this is not an exercise that any NZ government should be embarking on…

          Yes it is but it should be done in house by a dedicated government IT department.

          Expect to see failure, blame and fault avoidance on all sides if this moves into initiation!

          Under this government and with private contractors doing it? Yep, definitely. Get it done in house and blame can’t be shifted.

          • muzza

            Don’t know much about delivering these sorts of prgrammes do you Draco!

            Consolidation translates to outsourcing (that is the sole intent), so your comments about *in house*, makes no sense at all!

            Didn’t notice too many government departments in that link you claim to be proof of feasibility link bro!

          • Colonial Viper

            It’s ridiculous in this day and age that someone can deal with one government department, give all their details and then go to another government department only to find that you have to give the details again.

            Be careful what you wish for mate. A little bit of inconvenience and some Chinese Walls might be a good thing, for the next time we get a Holland or a Muldoon in power.

            • muzza

              Thats where its falling short for DTB lately – He is keen as to stick it into the government at most opportunities, rightly so, yet vents his displeasure about it being more difficult for the governments to coordinate the theft/selling off of your data!

              Just upload it all to the google cloud and be done with it!

              See what he thinks of inconvenience then!

    • BLiP 8.4

      Hmmm . . . now where did John Key get that idea from? Oh, yeah . . .

      . . . As a result of the Federal Data Center Consolidation Initiative (FDCCI), the number of government data centers will shrink sharply from its current level of about 3,000 centers to about 1,800 by 2015 — a reduction rate of 40 percent. Eventual savings could be in the range of US$5 billion. The ability to implement a change of that magnitude is largely the result of a confluence of IT developments that have matured at about the same time . . .

      . . . makes it easier to privatise when there’s only one entity involved, I guess.

      • tc 8.4.1

        + 1 yes another opportunity for backers to plunder.

        The play book after you identify the (A) service/product you utilise.
        1. Outsource.
        2. Then remove the capability and infrastructure from the organisation i.e, people, kitchen equipment, server rooms, call centre business knowledge etc
        3. Outsourcer increases the charges , maximises their profits as they pitched a number that won the business not their intended eventual charge/true cost even.
        4. Organisation reduces services/passes on costs
        5. Organisations looks to in source after impacts of (4) felt.
        6. Proves alot more costly as (2) must be repeated using new builds and resources either no longer around or more expensive due to (5)
        7. Pain and alot of effort to get back to A

        Call centres in OZ have gone through this, business experience this all the time. Short term gains…..who cares about the rest atitude.

  8. Colonial Viper 9

    Michael Littlewood, Auckland University/Retirement Policy Research Centre:


    Dear Sir,

    I just heard you talking on National Radio. Three things:

    1) You said that household debt is only 19% of household assets so, when you look at the statistics no problem.

    For goddsakes man rerun your stats and do it this way:
    – Recalculate this ratio solely for the asset base and debt base of the bottom 80% of New Zealanders (by financial wealth or by income).

    Because currently, using the 19% figure, you are ignoring who owns the assets and who owns the debts in this society. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE.

    2) You said that over the long run, every house in the country has to be occupied and every person has to have housing, so no problem with housing affordability.

    Cripes this is another neoliberal “the market will eventually return to equilibrium (because our mathematical theories assumes so, not because any empirical evidence has ever shown that it does)” type statement. Try this instead:
    – What other behaviours are possible from working age market participants instead of say, moving to Shannon where housing is cheap? Maybe leaving this country in droves?
    – Does your statement explain in the slightest why people are flooding to Auckland, one of the most unaffordable housing markets in the country? Perhaps the availability of jobs for short term day to day survival is a bigger factor, even if it means that it creates circumstances where long term viability for retirement is permanently diminished?

    3) You said earlier in the 20th century plenty of people rented and did not own, so not much change from today, so no problem.
    – FFS man. Have a look at the rates of elderly poverty pre 1935. There is a reason that the Labour Govt decided to make social housing widely available at next to no cost. The fact that our statistics of home ownership vs rental is heading back that way does NOT happen to be a good thing IMO.

    Taking all the above into account, maybe there IS a ‘structural issue’ to be addressed in our economy? Maybe you should start asking median income earning NZ citizens under the age of 40 what they think instead of poring over incomplete statistics.

    And you’re supposedly an expert on these issues. Sheeesh.

    • ghostrider888 9.1

      a “little” wood indeed

    • Draco T Bastard 9.2

      Sounds like a typical economist – everything he says is based upon his pet theory and has absolutely no connection to what is actually happening in the real world. IMO, the “economists” have a lot to answer for.

      • TheContrarian 9.2.1

        No one in the world knows economics like Draco. NO ONE.

        • aerobubble

          The world economy is mired in debt, due to the policies of Thatcher, no mainstream economists can criticize Thatcher, she was protected by the media and her legacy of division and crushing dissent has never been more evident in the last few days. She sucked, economist suck, individually they haven’t got a backbone, only in their collective national socialism for the few have they been able to hold together.

          The economics of the past thirty years have been Thatcherism, our debt, our economic malaise, our reality, is due to her and her followers shear stupidity – that they could never take criticism without bitter counter attacks on the messenger.

        • Draco T Bastard

          When I get proved wrong I’m happy about it as I get to learn new stuff. The economists have been proven wrong both by reality and other people showing that their models and theory are BS and yet they fail to learn anything.

        • Galeandra

          Au contraire ad hominum, AGAIN………

      • The Murphey 9.2.2

        Not sure if he is an economist per se, but he is a career think tanker!

        Situation always seem different from inside the warm, safe confines of the think tank!

        I wonder where his views place amongst the other academics at AKL University!

    • Adrian 9.3

      The one figure we do not see when comparing household debt is how much of it is borrowed to run or buy a business, something that generally doesn’t happen in all that many countries overseas. In the USA the family home is sacrosanct when a business fails. So of the figure often quoted a large portion of it is actually “commercial” debt.

  9. BLiP 10


    Forest & Bird is asking New Zealanders to show their support for the Department of Conservation on Love DOC Day. Love DOC Day is a series of events around the country which will highlight the impacts of the cuts – the aim is to try to put pressure on DOC and the government to consider carefully before they make their final decision later this month.

    What you can do:

    . – . Send a 20-word message of support on a post-it note through Forest & Bird’s website.

    . – . Print out this poster of the event and put it up in your worksite so everyone can see it.

    . – . Wear a green armband or write a message of support on a sheet of paper/large post-it – take a photo and email it to lovedoc@forestandbird.org.nz tweet to #lovedoc or post it here – Forest and Bird will collate it and present it to DOC.

    . – . Get to one of the stalls around the country being hosted by Forest and Bird 12pm-2pm on Thursday April 11th – go here to find one in your area.

  10. ghostrider888 11

    another “Mandarin”
    1M Chinese visitors per year in 5 years time, or 400,000? somebody needs an abacus Martin.

    I am a plow
    I am a betrayer of cold and death
    Endless fields come towards me
    They carry spring’s dreams
    Coming towards me, the moistened moon-
    My antique exquisite body

    I am grief
    I hear the groans of roots being amputated
    My heart is rolling and trembling
    In black waves
    Like a boat fighting the storm
    Like a flag quietly hoisted in humiliation
    I hand frozen clumps of deep earth to the sun
    Making the tract claimed by loneliness and desolation
    Yield a cheerful brook once again

    I am serious love
    I melt unlimited tenderness with an edge of steel
    More sincere than an embrace and kisses
    I force all wildness, poverty and hopelessness
    Far away from the great land
    I give my naked soul to love
    Marching on forever, spreading eternal life-
    Furrow upon furrow of trenches
    Plot after plot of fields
    Carry my longings that gradually stretch
    And submerge into new green during a radiant season.

    -Yang Lian : China.

    Fair Go capitalism ; a “location premium fee” charged by car rental companies at Queenstown airport were designated a whole lotta other BS by retail staff, but generally the $15-46 “premium” was referred to as an “airport tax” (one after another these beautiful people just made sh*t up) Except, a local family business that charged no extra but absorbed rents into their overheads.


    A lot of that japanese QE is now floating down here for the rates;dollar may go to 90US, well, at least a new PC will be about $99.99 at the Warehouse this year…oh well, the Chinese prefer hot to iced water.

  11. ghostrider888 12

    wonder if a Poster will look into the dark hole that is the covered butts of the former Ministry of Labour and Ministry of Ec Dev staff concerning Pike River.

    Massacre Sandhill

    The rain the rain the rain
    the rain upon the hill
    the three horsemen came
    the three horses
    the rain came down in clouds
    and cried
    the rain the rain cried
    until it washed the blood
    back into the land again
    the rain the rain cried
    until there was only the drought.

    -Grandfather Koori

    …you do not know what a man is
    torn and bleeding in a snare.
    If you knew you would come
    on the waves and on the wind
    out of every borderland
    with your hearts melting and sick
    holding up your fists aloft
    come to the rescue of what is yours.

    If one day you come too late
    and you find my body cold,
    if you find my comrades dead
    white as snow among their chains,
    pick up our banners again
    and our anguish and our dreams
    and the names upon the walls
    which we carved with loving care…

    -(from A Short Letter to the World; above ground)

    Darkness begets itself

    When the burnt flesh is finally at rest,
    The fires in the asylum grates will come up
    And the wicks turn down to darkness in the madman’s

    -Peter. Porter.

  12. johnm 13

    The Artist Taxi Driver Update on the U$K Austerity Class War :-(. Thatcher Special.

    I am back…Thatcher is dead, but her tyranny is still alive..I bought a pig

    **Thatcher Special Edition** BBC Sucks O Cocks News

    OMFG!! Thatchers funeral..You Pay???? £8Million

    **recalled Parliament Special** BBC Sucks O Cocks News
    “Podgy faced Cameron has just nearly broken down in tears whilst putting Thatcher up there with Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. What a soaking wet toss rag he really is.”

    Thatcher Eulogy Live from Houses of Parliament. ” Just heard ATOS have declared Thatcher fit to work.” 🙂

    🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁

  13. aerobubble 14

    [audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20130411-0953-uk_correspondent_dame_ann_leslie-048.mp3" /]

    Funny how more evidence of the herd behavior that will broach no criticism of Thatcher and her policies. Is then followed by NR by a deep inspection of the fiscal collapse where the winners are those that observed how assumptions of market players models had failed, and how playing the player (like in poker) would have seen the mass herding effect of all those Thatcherites and bet against them.

    Thatcher legacy is clear, those who failed to understand her destructive effects is clearly a poor commentator on our current economic times. And I believe we are seeing a prolonged downturn because we can’t criticize openly her poor economic grasp of her own policies and its effects.

    The boom of the last thirty years was due to a glut of oil from the middle east, and Thatcherites opening up the markets to soak up the all the potential in useless wastes of energy and resources.

  14. yeshe 15

    Methinks a true knucklehead has nailed Key with the way this is written .. vacuous, vapid and inane .. let Key’s deeply insightful remarks speak for him on his welcome on Tiananmen Square ….

    “Amnesty International ….. urged Key “to raise our human rights concerns” on the trip, as it released a new report showing China executed more prisoners than any other country.

    Key said after the meeting that the issue of human rights was raised at his meeting with Li, although no specific details were given, with only talk of the “dialogue” between the two countries.

    “Obviously it’s an area where we need to continue talking,” Key told reporters yesterday.

    He said the ceremony was one “to die for” and that Li had explained it reflected the importance of the relationship.

    “The premier said to me when the troops were walking past that ‘this is the welcome that we afford to a real friend, and it’s a sign of the way that we value your visit here’, and my visit to Beijing,” Key said.”

    “So it’s deliberate, that they do that, it’s very nice of them and it’s a very grand ceremony.”

    Yes Prime Minister Vapid, “to die for”. What an ignorant and stupidly vain man you truly are.

    Many thanks to the knucklehead travelling with him.


  15. ghostrider888 16

    Mg ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9_5mmoImR8 )
    fro the Scrap Yard 😉


    16:2 All a mans ways seem important to him but motives are weighed by the Lord.

  16. ghostrider888 17

    Wow, another crayon in the paint box!

    About us
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    David Cunliffe

    Revenue portfolio

    Looming customer service crisis at IRD

    David Cunliffe | Thursday, April 11, 2013 – 09:54

    A mounting crisis in IRD’s customer service is unfair to honest New Zealanders who are trying to comply with their tax obligations, Labour’s Revenue Spokesperson David Cunliffe says.

    “Peter Dunne swears his department is adequately staffed to deal with the rate changes which hit Kiwis in the pocket this month, despite slashing IRD’s workforce by seven per cent last year.

    “He can swear until he’s blue in the face but his department is struggling. Many Kiwis trying to get through are simply played a recorded message then disconnected.

    “Worse, Peter Dunne has admitted that a full quarter of the ‘lucky’ callers who do get through won’t have their enquiries fully resolved in that call.

    “The third strike is Dunne’s confession that that the IRD have zero performance measures for postal transactions. None whatsoever!

    “Kiwis are trying to complain to Peter Dunne but the phone is off the hook.

    “The litany of flip-flops on uncosted new taxes and the crisis in customer service at the IRD shows the need for a complete change in the leadership and culture of New Zealand’s tax administration.

    “Having to deal with the IRD is a certainty, but trying to get sense from the taxman in 2013 could make you wish for that other certainty in life,” David Cunliffe said.

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    David Shearer with his wife AnuschkaDavid Shearer’s wife AnuschkaLabour Leader David Shearer

  17. Colonial Weka 18

    This is inspiring. Johnm posted in one of the Thatcher threads a link to photos of the Brixton party. Just look at all those young people who know what Thather did and who give a shit! It’s not often I feel political hope.


    Johnm’s other links

    I thank Margaret Thatcher …

  18. ianmac 19

    Herald Ministry of Justice’s Legal Aid Office sent:
    “Confidential legal aid details of a Bay of Plenty man accused of breaching community work were mistakenly sent to a woman in a major privacy breach.”
    Oops. Specially given Collins sarcastic response the other day at QT,

  19. Rogue Trooper 20

    on Bitcoin
    on The Arcane 😉

    it is a bit Rich (Ivor Lott) that former national MP Kate is to head a ministerial ref. group to oversee the 10M for people raising grandchildren; better be a top-up with that coupon; Slovenian banks are toxic too, don’t you know “Iran has gone nuclear”- Ahmadinejad, and now Israel is just looking for a dietary excuse to passover.

    Jim Bolger (at Opportunities of Ageing Conference) hmmm;
    -“We, along with other countries, will ultimately compete for immigrants and welcome refugees that we currently turn away.” (bet that went down like a cuppa cold tea with low-fat milk and Coro on hold for the America’s Cup).
    -on how NZ will (not) provide solutions to cover cost of increasing super, low birth rates among the wheel-off and an ageing workforce (wish I had stayed stoned most of the time myself Jim, but then there are the sheep to share…the price of good ganja, unlike cheap booze is NOT dropping Judith, supply and demand and all those market fundamentals…)

    yet, the scope (hats off to Roy Harper and BLiP) for production in boondocks is widening as
    “Rural communities and networks disintegrate
    -preference for contractual rather than permanent employment arrangements
    -more dairying; nomadic share-milking herds
    -more migrant workers”.

    still, Christmas Time is coming…

    (the rider would not wear the tie of slavery for all the Aprilias in Cuba; not while Thunderaces are as cheap as chips!)
    “roll on, roll on down the highway, b b b baby, you just aint seen nothin’ yet!”

    • NickS 20.1

      One big issue with buttcoins – the security for them is oft really shit, plus it’s very easy to mine new coins, so the price and exchange rates are as volatile as hell. Especially if a major wallet site owner decides to shut down their site and so manipulate the bittcoin market.

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.1

        plus it’s very easy to mine new coins, so the price and exchange rates are as volatile as hell.

        Only a very limited no. of new coins can now be mined though, as the original algorithm sets a maximum number of bitcoins allowable in existence, ever.

        • ghostrider888

          wonder if cigars and complementary single malt in the bottom desk drawer comes with the Scoop of chips (you know, like real gum-shoes get; didn’t know Bogey had a lisp…learn something ginger every day.)

        • NickS

          There’s now bot-nets doing the mining and building a decent mining computer only takes a few high end graphics cards, so while the rate of mining may have reduced, with sufficient resources mining groups can make a pretty packet. At least while the exchange rate’s good.

          And as far as I know, the security issues with wallets are still extant.

        • Colonial Viper

          For more detail, the total number of bitcoins in existance is set to 21M. The constraining algorithm has behaviour described here


  20. karol 21

    *sigh* so much nasties coming from the NAct government right now, it’s hard to keep up.

    I have just been watching some of the debates on the changes to the Crown Minerals (Permitting and Crown Land) Bill. Basically, opposition MPs say the government is, yet again, slipping in a load of little changes that amount to a shift in values away from protecting the environment. It includes some doodgy moves like the government slipping in a late SOP that diverges from what was being discussed in committee/ relation to public submissions.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 22.1

      Don’t worry, there’s Dotcom’s “white paper” next week. And Key will have to come back from China to front questions answer for his lies to Parliament.

      There’s speculation that he won’t have the numbers to get his way on GCSB reform too.

      Lot’s of fun left in this dead meat.

    • BLiP 22.2

      and Labour truth is…denied, again. Never mind.

      FIFY now DIAF

  21. ghostrider888 23


    Icons (horses for courses) 😉

    Tamihana Thrupp, The Cowboy (presbyterian) Minister from Tuhoe! Excellent kaupapa.

    • BLiP 24.1

      I wonder if the head of Treasury’s Economic Modelling, Chicken Entrails and Necromancy Unit has factored in climate change? Unlikely.

    • chris73 25.1

      Defend the rights of people to go about their legally defined rights instead (whether you agree with those rights or not)

      • Pascal's bookie 25.1.1

        So defend the rights of people to protest whether you agree with those rights or not?

      • Draco T Bastard 25.1.2

        If the populace don’t want to give those corporations that right then they don’t have that right – no matter what the government says.

      • Rhinocrates 25.1.3

        rights of people to go about their legally defined rights

        Oh how convenient – so if their rights are “legally defined”, that is. arbitrarily defined by those who happen to be in power and not actual inherent rights, then it’s fine for them to have whatever rights those in power say they have. OK, got it…

        There was this great satirical dystopia written about by Bruce Sterling in which there was one right, the right to death, so citizens were asked in quite calm terms whether they wanted to claim their “free” right.

        Is that how you think of rights? If someone who wears a shiny hat calls it a right, then that is a right, and the only kind of right there can ever be?

        Really, your strange reflexive faith in the “rightness” of “authority” is quite incomprehensible in a human being. It is appropriate in an animal perhaps – a dog in a pack deferring to the “Alpha” – but in a reasoning, conscious being? Surely not; every one of us has a conscience that can never be surrendered to another.

        I wonder if you’ve ever heard on Stanley Milgram and his experiments on the psychology of obedience, or the Stanford Prison Experiment?… or just “being a good German”?

        Defend the rights of people to go about their legally defined rights instead (whether you agree with those rights or not)

        Really, this is an utter perversion of Voltaire’s famous statement, “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” I would say that your sentiments are Orwellian, but Orwell stood for decency, in saying “Democracy is the right to say what people do not want to hear.”

        This talk about “legally defined rights”? That’s euphemy for fascism.

  22. MrSmith 26

    I see the Pig’s are openly applauding one of their own’s corrupt behavior again in regard to the Thomas case, this organization is so blinkered and up it’s own ass that we can no longer trust it along with GC…….Si……. and when will the nightmare end for Thomas.

    • vto 26.1

      Yes I agree and I am disgusted with the Police.

      I look forward to the mob (nz) applauding their own for their faithful and righteous service to manwomankind and everyone allowing it to occur without comment including the NZ Police, as the mob has in this case in return.

      Trust no one except those you know intimately.

      Hey, GCSB, Police, know who I am? Been snooping? Who you gonna call? fuckwits shove it up your arse

  23. vto 27

    Bill Birch look at my life

    I’m not a lot like you were ..

    Old man look at my life


    Old man

    24 and there so much more

    llive alone in a paradise


    old man

    where the embers of goodness reside in few

    Bill Birch failure at the end as they always dooooo


  24. idlegus 28

    “As the Iraq War took off, I watched people who believed the government incapable of running a post office argue it could transform the Arab World into an oasis of democracy within a year. If the state built chicken factories in Alaska, paid ten times too much then staffed them with incompetents and felons, this was socialism, the ‘fatal conceit’ that events could be controlled by central planning. But in Basrah it was ‘reconstruction’, even as America’s own infrastructure deconstructed. ”

    http://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/richard-cooke/2013/04/11/1365657734/why-i-am-not-conservative-any-more great article.

  25. Draco T Bastard 29

    Interview with Steve Keen

    Q: Do you think David Stockton’s admission in the Federal Open Market Committee transcripts from 2007 that “the financial transmission mechanisms in most of the workhorse macro models that we use for forecasting are still rudimentary” may help us understand why policymakers underestimated the potential extent of the financial crisis?

    A: It’s not just that economists can’t see banks, it’s that they can’t see why debt matters. This is the fundamental thing.

    My analysis shows aggregate demand as income plus change in debt. Not only do neoclassical economists think that isn’t true but many of my Post-Keynesian colleagues haven’t got their heads around it yet. They think I’m doing double counting when I make that case.

    I’ve proven that I’m not double counting. What it means is that I was looking for the impact of a change in debt and as soon as the change in debt slowed down I knew the crisis was going to start.

    Because policymakers couldn’t comprehend that private debt plays any role in the economy at all, and you’ll see that still today, they weren’t even looking at it. They didn’t contemplate that there would be any macroeconomic impact coming from that side of finance so they didn’t have the causal mechanisms in place to know why they should bother about it.

    They were completely oblivious.

    • Colonial Viper 29.1

      I suppose that’s one reason why Cullen had no issues with massively escalating private debt when he was Finance Minister. That and the fact that the Treasury boffins reporting to him thought in exactly the same way.

      • Draco T Bastard 29.1.1

        Exactly. Our economists have advanced theories that have no basis in reality that our politicians have believed and then made policies on which, inevitably, is making the majority of people worse off. It’s good for the rich though.

    • BLiP 29.2

      ♫ ♪ . . . Some of them knew fortune,
      And some of them knew fame,
      More of them knew hardship,
      And died upon the plain,
      They spread throughout the nation,
      Rode the railroad cars,
      Brought their songs and music,
      To ease their lonely hearts.

      To the City of Chicago . . . ♪ ♫

  26. Draco T Bastard 30


    Precis: Two trillion dollars flows from the poor countries to the rich every year.

  27. Ed 31

    Some time ago NRT posted about the legality of the prime minister being involved in an appointment process

    That seems to be contradicted by the decision of the auditor-general that there is no particular process and any involvement by the PM is appointing his good friend (and that’s close to how the news reports sounded ) is OK.

    Is this something lawyers would have a view on? Is the auditor-general or I/S correct? Should the appointment have been gazetted?

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