Open mike 11/11/2015

119 comments on “Open mike 11/11/2015 ”

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1. Paul 1

   11 November 2015 at 6:19 am

   ‘Cold, calculated and cynical’

   ‘John Key’s strategic supremo is Lynton Crosby, from the Australian firm Crosby/Textor. Crosby has a trick in his bag called the “dead cat strategy.” Here’s Boris Johnson, one of Crosby’s British clients, describing it in 2013:
   If you’re losing an argument, if you’re in a weak position, throw a dead cat on the table, the London mayor wrote.
   “Everyone will shout ‘Jeez, mate, there’s a dead cat on the table!’; in other words they will be talking about the dead cat, the thing you want them to talk about, and they will not be talking about the issue that has been causing you so much grief.”
   Today, John Key threw a dead cat into the middle of New Zealand’s Parliament.
   John Key knew he was in a weak position today for two reasons. First, his deliberate inaction in the face of disgraceful treatment of expat New Zealanders by Australia is a dereliction of his duty, as his many advisers will be telling him.

   Read more here.

   http://publicaddress.net/speaker/cold-calculated-and-cynical/
   • Manuka AOR 1.1

     11 November 2015 at 7:23 am

     “Make no mistake – this was no passionate outburst. It was a coldly calculated tactic, cynically designed to remove stories about Key’s inaction and Labour’s conference from the media.

     “The dead cat got even more prominence because the Speaker of the House, National’s David Carter, inexplicably ruled that it is perfectly fine within Parliament’s rules to accuse MPs of “backing rapists” or “putting yourself on the side of sex offenders.”

     “Bear in mind that Parliament’s rules are so tight that calling someone a liar or a hypocrite are automatically ruled out of order, and you can’t even refer to an MP being absent from the House chamber.

     “Some might wonder whether the Prime Minister and the strictly impartial Speaker of the House from his own party might have conspired to make the dead cat as big and hairy as possible, so nobody would talk about anything else.

     “I, of course, couldn’t possibly speculate on that.”
     • ianmac 1.1.1

       11 November 2015 at 9:34 am

       I did wonder why the Speaker was looking so pleased at the furore. Other times when he has lost control he gets angry and splutters. This time he just looked pleased with himself especially when inflaming the situation by refusing to call for the PM to withdraw and apologise. Cat cream?
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

         11 November 2015 at 10:55 am

         In other words, it went off exactly as planned.

         Another example of National’s Dirty Politics.
         • whateva next? 1.1.1.1.1

           11 November 2015 at 6:21 pm

           except the fact that one of the guys in detention was a bodyguard for Key in Afghanistan, spanner in the works
2. sabine 2

   11 November 2015 at 6:50 am

   from stuff

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/73901020/kiwi-war-hero-detained-by-australian-government-after-visa-revoked

   A New Zealand war hero is being kept in a high-security prison by Australian authorities despite having committed no crime.

   Decorated former Lance Corporal Ngati Kanohi Te Eke Haapu, better known as Ko Rutene, has been detained because his visa was revoked on the grounds that he is a member of a motorcycle club.

   New laws were introduced in December to crack down on foreign-born criminals. Australian immigration minister Peter Dutton had the power to deport anyone with a 12-month sentence who didn’t have Australian citizenship, no matter how long they had lived in the country.

   ————————————————————————————————————————

   watch the interview with Marama Fox (still giving thumps up to the Speaker and still blaming the opposition, as she must after all she wants to stay in government no matter how much is stinks to high heavens).,It is still nitpicking, insofar as they speak still of the ‘crimes’ committed, while instead of speaking of OZ discriminating against Kiwis in general.
   • Manuka AOR 2.1

     11 November 2015 at 7:01 am

     “Ko Rutene was part of a team whose job was to rescue infantry units under attack in Afghanistan.

     “Rutene, 34, was taken into custody over a week ago and is currently being held at the Casuarina maximum-security prison in Perth.

     “His lawyer Michael Pena-Rees said the Kiwi had no criminal record in Australia or New Zealand and he was otherwise of “exceptional good character”.

     “The solicitor said Rutene served in the New Zealand Army from 2008 to 2012.” [emph added]

     ….and this is Remembrance Day, 2015
     • Magisterium 2.1.1

       11 November 2015 at 2:36 pm

       
       MIGRATION ACT 1958 – SECT 501

       For the purposes of this section, a person does not pass the character test if:

       (b) the Minister reasonably suspects:

       (i) that the person has been or is a member of a group or organisation, or has had or has an association with a group, organisation or person; and

       (ii) that the group, organisation or person has been or is involved in criminal conduct
       • McFlock 2.1.1.1

         11 November 2015 at 3:04 pm

         Yes indeed. That’s the law that they implemented to be able to do this shit. Sort of the point, really.
   • Chooky 2.2

     11 November 2015 at 9:54 am

     this is racism pure and simple and John Key is supporting this racism…draw your own conclusions ( Key also supports Saudi Arabia and Israel)

     …and why is the Maori Party still supporting this John Key racist government?!..they are a disgrace! …they should be walking the floor with Labour ( actions speak louder than words)…the Maori Party has NO moral credibility

     …when is Australia going to be brought before United Nations ?! …for crimes against humanity?!
     • northshoredoc 2.2.1

       11 November 2015 at 9:58 am

       It is not racism.
       • greywarshark 2.2.1.1

         11 November 2015 at 10:16 am

         Maybe not overt but covert and just part of an ongoing bias against those who are brown or black which becomes very noticeable sometimes, as now.
         • Manuka AOR 2.2.1.1.1

           11 November 2015 at 10:31 am

           Here’s the SMH reporting of it: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/kiwi-mp-slams-decision-to-revoke-visa-of-decorated-soldier-20151110-gkvpdw.html
           “Supporters say the former soldier, Mr Ngati Kanohi Haapu, who is better known as Ko, was involved in four serious incidents during his Afghanistan deployment, including one where one of his comrades died and two were seriously injured.

           “The incident, where Ko was assigned with providing protection to his unit and conveying his fallen comrade’s body from the attack area, prompted a heartfelt tribute from then opposition leader, Tony Abbott.”
           …

           “Ko was arrested last week while visiting a friend at Casuarina Prison and had his visa revoked, apparently on the basis that he is a member of an outlaw motorcycle club, the Rebels, which is not a criminal organisation in WA.”
     • Sabine 2.2.2

       11 November 2015 at 10:37 am

       i don’t see racism there. I see bigotry and human rights abuses, and a Maori Party member trying desperately to push some blame on the opposition in order to deflect attention away from the ineptitude, callousness and hostility towards NZ Citizens that the government her party supports shows on any given day.
       • Chooky 2.2.2.1

         11 November 2015 at 10:41 am

         Here is another example of racism . This Maori is Not a rapist ! (as John Key catagorises and justifies the incarceration of New Zealanders)

         …Mr Fowell drove while disqualified and has been caught in possession of cannabis ! He loves his Maori partner and wants to be with her while she dies)

         ‘Kiwi detained in Australia while partner dies alone’

         http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/288326/kiwi-detained-while-partner-dies-alone?utm_source=change_org&utm_medium=petition

         “If they keep him locked up until he is deported back to New Zealand, it is likely his partner Carmel Stanwell will die alone.

         Ms Stanwell has terminal lung cancer and is already finding it difficult to breathe.

         Neither she nor Mr Fowell, who said he was originally from Rotorua, could understand why he was being kept in detention, rather than being allowed home to look after her.

         While he spent a year in jail, it was not for serious or violent crimes.

         In Mr Fowell’s case he had driven while disqualified and been caught in possession of cannabis. That was enough to be imprisoned and under Australia’s tough new regime he is now being held in detention before being deported.

         He has been able to visit Ms Stanwell but the last time was early September. Meanwhile, her condition worsens.

         “It is just horrible watching her fade away in front of me and I can’t do much about it,” he said.

         ( compare this with the white collar crimes of banksters, who get away with their frauds)
         • Manuka AOR 2.2.2.1.1

           11 November 2015 at 11:02 am

           Thank you for posting that. It is shockingly cruel.

           What possible reason could they have – could anyone have, for locking him up? This is a perversion of justice!!
         • Manuka AOR 2.2.2.1.2

           11 November 2015 at 11:11 am

           Once again, if we still had Campbell Live, they would be all over this, and Ko, – and the Nats could no longer look away and hide in their lies.
         • Chooky 2.2.2.1.3

           11 November 2015 at 1:34 pm

           More racism!?…This lady stole perfume and is about to be deported…She is not rapist or sexual abuser…and why should she be separated from her children?

           http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/287142/'please-let-me-go-back-home-to-my-children‘

           Suicides at Detention Centres

           ‘Detention conditions ‘too much to handle’ ‘

           “Many people being held in Australian detention centres are suicidal after living in what they describe as “war camps”, says a group campaigning for New Zealanders’ rights…

           http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/286370/detention-conditions-'too-much-to-handle‘

           Children to be deported

           http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/285648/young-kids-to-be-deported-in-crackdown

           “Their mothers had a type of New Zealand citizenship – by descent – that could not be passed on to their children and they did not fall into a special visa category.

           David Faulkner, who fights for the rights of New Zealanders living in Australia, said the action was being taken under existing laws that were now being enforced more rigourously.
           “These cases have only just come to light recently, and when I contacted the High Commission they were as surprised as I was to hear about these matters,” he said.

           “It appears that [Australian] Immigration is now taking a very literal – a different hardline interpretation of the legislation.”

           Mr Faulkner said there could be as many as 1500 children in Australia who were unknowingly in the same position…

           http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201772733
3. Huginn 3

   11 November 2015 at 6:53 am

   Bring Back Antitrust

   Despite low inflation and some bargain prices, economic concentration and novel abuses of market power are pervasive in today’s economy—harming consumers, workers, and innovators. We need a new antitrust for a new predatory era.

   David Dayen

   http://prospect.org/article/bring-back-antitrust-0
   • Ad 3.1

     11 November 2015 at 8:05 am

     The Cartels draft legislation has been languishing before this Parliament for several years now, and shows no sign of coming out.
4. tangled_up 4

   11 November 2015 at 6:53 am

   Kiwi war hero detained by Australian government after visa revoked

   A New Zealand war hero is being kept in a high-security prison by Australian authorities despite having committed no crime.

   The Rebels OMC is not a criminal organisation in Western Australia.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/73901020/kiwi-war-hero-detained-by-australian-government-after-visa-revoked

   Kelvin Davis really needs to get an interview with this guy and/or this case should be mentioned at every opportunity.

   edit: oops double post with sabine
   • sabine 4.1

     11 November 2015 at 7:13 am

     the whole affair is sorry and messy, but trying to find someone with out a ‘crime’ is against all reason and actually just fucking bullshittery.

     These people should not have been ‘deported’ or more honestly ‘kidnapped’ to Christmas Island and they should not be held there. What ever crimes they have committed and being part of an MC is a crime in OZ (they made it so a few years ago) they should serve their sentence and then a. be returned to the general public, or be deported back to their country of Birth (NZ in this case) with the full cooperation of teh NZ government via the NZ Consulate in OZ. As it is in the moment, they are being held captive on a god forsaken Island several thousands kilometers away from NZ and OZ, from lawyers (are we still a Nation of laws?) from support (are we still providing support via the NZ Consulate to NZ Citizens?) and from their social support net via Family and Friends (would this fall under cruel and unjust treatment). So trying to find somone who is a Hero, or sum such thing is nonsense.
     The PM should be asked the same question again today, and he should be forced to answer. What, if anything is NZ doing to help NZ Citizens holed up in Christmas Island. And if nothing is done Why so?

     So good on Labour and Kelvin Davis for raising the issue. because frankly no one else did an does, heck even Marama Davis is trying again to put the blame on the opposition, while in this case clearly it is the PM that not only is abdicating his duty towards the citizens of this country, but also in the most crude terms is insinuating that the Opposition is a party of ‘rapists and child molesterers (his words not mine). At some stage, someone should ask the Government with all its little Vassal Parties : At long last have you got no shame. As that behaviour from the PM and his Speaker was simply just shameful and embarrassing and an insult to the office they both hold.
     • Manuka AOR 4.1.1

       11 November 2015 at 7:31 am

       As it is in the moment, they are being held captive on a god forsaken Island several thousands kilometers away from NZ and OZ, from lawyers (are we still a Nation of laws?) from support (are we still providing support via the NZ Consulate to NZ Citizens?) and from their social support net via Family and Friends (would this fall under cruel and unjust treatment).

       Exactly!

       The PM should be asked the same question again today, and he should be forced to answer. What, if anything is NZ doing to help NZ Citizens holed up in Christmas Island. And if nothing is done Why so? [emph added]

       Yes.
       • Ad 4.1.1.1

         11 November 2015 at 8:06 am

         He would just reply: “Nothing, because we don’t want them back.”
         • Sabine 4.1.1.1.1

           11 November 2015 at 8:15 am

           Then Labour could simply say, Why are you doing then everything to get them back here? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/73859941/kiwis-at-christmas-island-detention-able-to-return-home-in-days-or-weeks

           Because Labour via Kelvin Davis has been doing everything possible to have these people stay in OZ, the country they have spend most and in some cases all their lives.

           So Please Dear Leader why do you do your utmost to get these people to come to NZ, chartering private planes, put plans into action to monitoring them – they did serve their sentence, so why monitoring? Are they not free men/women now. Could it be that you and your government is supporting the OZ government in serious human rights breaches, rather then supporting your citizens and your country, which by the way is still New Zealand. 🙂

           No, i really think that Labour should just have fun with them now. Let them eat their own pile of turd that they left in the chambers.
           • Ad 4.1.1.1.1.1

             11 November 2015 at 8:19 am

             The media are certainly against him on this one.

             Key is trying Aussie-style hard politics here; I’m not convinced it’s going to work.
       • greywarshark 4.1.1.2

         11 November 2015 at 10:26 am

         People being declared persona non grata, taken at will from the streets or wherever – just thought – Britain used to do it to get workers for the Navy ships,

         Bonhoeffer et al had something to say about arrest and detention arbitrarily.:

         Many years later, after Niemöller had been imprisoned for eight years in concentration camps as the personal prisoner of Adolf Hitler, he penned these infamous words:
         First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out –
         because I was not a Socialist.
         Then they came for the Trade Unionist, and I did not speak out –
         because I was not a Trade Unionist.
         Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out –
         because I was not a Jew.
         And then they came for me –
         and there was no one left to speak for me.”
         ― Eric Metaxas, Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy

         and on joining the right group, doing the right thing
         …when someone asked Bonhoeffer whether he shouldn’t join the German Christians in order to work against them from within, he answered that he couldn’t. ‘If you board the wrong train,’ he said, ‘it is no use running along the corridor in the opposite direction.”
         ― Eric Metaxas, Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy
         https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/6801520-bonhoeffer-pastor-martyr-prophet-spy

         He has a good way of putting things don’t you think.
         • Chooky 4.1.1.2.1

           11 November 2015 at 11:04 am

           +100 greywarshark…..Bonhoeffer…was a great German hero who was hung in a German concentration camp for opposing Hitler …just as many other opponents of Hitler were…but you dont hear about them much. ( I wonder why?…nor do you hear about the mass extermination of the Gypsies in the concentration camps)

           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer
     • savenz 4.1.2

       11 November 2015 at 10:09 am

       +1 Sabine.

       Can a complaint be made to the hague under human rights abuses?

       Is it legal for Australia to detain in a concentration camp style facility New Zealander’s who have served their sentence and abuse/torture them and not give them access to medicine, documents and lawyers and try to torture them to sign documents to remove them from the country they are living in?

       This an abuse of ‘terror’ laws against ordinary citizens being held is against their human rights.

       In my view this is the outcome of a deregulation of human rights within western countries and a push for totalitarism style power of governments, – where secret squads are going around rendition style, on the command of the government to remove people from society for their own agendas?
   • Manuka AOR 4.2

     11 November 2015 at 7:17 am

     There’s a good photo there of Ko Rutene in his uniform with his medals. That pic should be front page of every NZ newspaper today!
     • maui 4.2.1

       11 November 2015 at 10:22 am

       Media only care about war heros when they’re skulling out of the rugby world cup with All Blacks in plain sight. Its all part of the meme.
       • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1

         11 November 2015 at 11:09 am

         +1
   • BM 4.3

     11 November 2015 at 9:12 am

     https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/29990643/more-nz-bikies-ordered-home/
   • Naki man 4.4

     11 November 2015 at 1:27 pm

     “The Rebels OMC is not a criminal organisation in Western Australia”

     You fucking idiot, google the Rebels Perth.
     “Kiwi war hero” member of a crime gang dealing drugs and shooting people.

     http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/rebels-bikie-bentley-boss-on-drug-trafficking-guns-charges/news-story/3ca411b6780ff4a8044b31ce388a468e
     • Magisterium 4.4.1

       11 November 2015 at 2:46 pm

       And what is or is not legal in Western Australia is completely irrelevant. If the Minister of Immigration reasonably suspects that you have had an association with an organisation that has been involved in criminal conduct, you fail the character test and thus your visa gets revoked.
       • McFlock 4.4.1.1

         11 November 2015 at 3:05 pm

         Has John Key had any trouble getting a visa to Aus?
     • whateva next? 4.4.2

       11 November 2015 at 6:26 pm

       Naki man, you sound just like Patrick Gower sometimes, blasting us with your Keyfanboyz opinion. So should we arrest everyone who lives in a state house as some have been used to make P?
   • James 4.5

     11 November 2015 at 6:47 pm

     Indeed – Using a Rebel Motorcycle gang member as a poster child of “the poor innocent wee things” is going to resonate with most of NZ.
5. millsy 5

   11 November 2015 at 7:08 am

   No matter how many RWC memes we share on FB, or how much we crap on and on about ANZAC this, and that, we are, and always will be, Australia’s Mexico.
   • Once was Tim 5.1

     11 November 2015 at 7:56 am

     Only because we are prepared to accept being Australia’s Mexico.
     I’m not sure Kirk, (or Lange, or even Holyoake) would have accepted the current situation so easily.
     That ‘ANZAC spirit’ ffs. What a croc!
     The sooner Key is on the road to Gundagai the better.
     • alwyn 5.1.1

       11 November 2015 at 10:37 am

       Lange was a realist. He would certainly have accepted the fact that there isn’t a single thing that New Zealand can do about Australia’s actions on their own territory.
       Remember what happened with the two French Army officers who were jailed here and then released back to a French island with a Club Med resort.
       Lange let them go because we were going to be locked out of all trade with Europe otherwise. We couldn’t do a damn thing about it.
       Lange would certainly have accepted this situation and would have brushed any complaints with a joke.
       Have a look at Q4 in this interview with Lange near the end of his life.
       http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rainbow-warrior-bombing/news/article.cfm?c_id=1500930&objectid=3575913

       I can’t even suggest what the other two might have said but in Holyoake’s case it would never have arisen. He overlapped with Menzies who still believed in the old Commonwealth.
       Kirk? Who knows but he was sensible enough to know he had his hands tied.
       What would you expect any New Zealand Government to do? Declare war?
       • tracey 5.1.1.1

         11 November 2015 at 10:42 am

         Which is all very well, but why lie to the nation about the make-up of the people on Christmas Island, why not invoke the ghost of David Lange and say “my hands are tied”.

         Ethics for goods is not a great argument given how the world is and what NZ is beginning to look like if you are a vulnerable member of our country.
         • alwyn 5.1.1.1.1

           11 November 2015 at 11:19 am

           I don’t think he has been lying about the New Zealand people in detention.
           From the Herald we find that
           “The Prime Minister’s office later released figures which showed that out of 585 New Zealanders facing deportation, 34 had been convicted of child sex offences, 22 convicted of murder, and 16 convicted for rape or sex offences.”
           Sure, that doesn’t mean only people on Christmas Island but they are likely to be the worst of them.

           As far as the claim that he is “lying” to the nation I think he has been totally consistent in saying that the Australian Government has the right to take the actions it has been taking and there is nothing we can do.
           As an example have a look at
           https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/29792405/australia-could-deport-about-1000-kiwis/

           Incidentally did you watch the video of that question in Parliament? The only Labour MP who immediately reacted was Annette King, as far as I could see. Little just when on asking supplementary questions. Robertson didn’t pop up with his claims about being outraged for at least five minutes, did he? I’m surprised that it wasn’t thrown out on the grounds that you are supposed to bring up points of order immediately, and he hadn’t.
       • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2

         11 November 2015 at 11:17 am

         Lange let them go because we were going to be locked out of all trade with Europe otherwise. We couldn’t do a damn thing about it.

         We could have done something about it and held them here and told Europe to go fuck itself. In fact, that’s what we should have done. We should not be forgoing principle for trade.

         What would you expect any New Zealand Government to do? Declare war?

         No, I would expect our government to stick to principle rather than just say well, there’s nothing we can do about it. What Aus is doing contravenes numerous statutes of international law and so we should be looking at bringing charges through the UN or IC (whichever is the best place or perhaps even both).

         But nobody will do that as it appears that the West is immune from the consequences of such actions.
         • alwyn 5.1.1.2.1

           11 November 2015 at 11:30 am

           That is a valid view that you propose but in Lange’s view at the time we couldn’t really afford that.
           Did you see the place in his answer that he had thought that
           “… international law operates and was there to protect principles and not to be the plaything of power and might – which I now know, of course, to be an absolute nonsense. International law should be spelled l-o-r-e.”

           I think that rather than saying the “the West is immune” you would be better saying that “every large nation is immune”.
           How successful are we with Russia in the Ukraine, or China in the South China Sea?
           • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2.1.1

             11 November 2015 at 2:43 pm

             That is a valid view that you propose but in Lange’s view at the time we couldn’t really afford that.

             Which comes from the delusional view that we needed the trade.

             I think that rather than saying the “the West is immune” you would be better saying that “every large nation is immune”.

             Which wouldn’t be true if every small nation stood up to them.
6. HenryG 6

   11 November 2015 at 7:14 am

   Just putting it out there. http://i.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/73902227/Christmas-Island-detainees-living-in-fear-as-Kiwis-bash-weaker-inmates
   • Sabine 6.1

     11 November 2015 at 7:57 am

     i think that the mobs of Kiwis are more the Mobs of Guards – Serco Guards
     http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-10/australian-immigration-says-christmas-island-is-under-control/6927882
     ” The whole centre could be burning down for all we know’

     A 25-year-old man caught up in the riot had just enough time to send a message to his fiancee in Perth before guards stormed the facility last night.

     Matej Cuperka’s mobile phone battery was running low when he wrote: “They locked us up in a cage and left again. I’m safe, but have no access to nothing. I’m dying in here….”

     Mr Cuperka — who is awaiting deportation to Slovakia after he was arrested for overstaying his Australian visa — phoned his mother-in-law to say detainees not involved in the riot were put on a bus and into a “cage”.

     John Richardson, a Christmas Island resident of 15 years, said the lack of information from authorities caused unnecessary alarm within the community during the violence.”
     ———————————————————————————————————
     but fear not – the Kiwis in this Gulag can go home in days or weeks or whatever, time is relative, you know.

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/73859941/kiwis-at-christmas-island-detention-able-to-return-home-in-days-or-weeks

     ew Zealand-born detainees at the centre were caught up in the riots, with suggestions that Kiwis may have led the rioting.

     News of the action came as Prime Minister John Key warned Kiwi detainees who wanted to leave Christmas Island detention centre for New Zealand may have to wait weeks, but no months to depart.

     Potential obstacles to a swift departure included detainees’ lack of travel documents, the need to charter private flights for high-risk offenders, and assessing potential risks that detainees could present upon their arrival.

     “The rumour mill is very strong,” he said.

     “We don’t have a newspaper, we have only got access to mainland TV, and unfortunately some of the reports on the TV weren’t particularly accurate.

     “If it happened on the mainland it would have been front page news and everyone would have known exactly what was going on, whereas on Christmas Island it’s life as normal.
     ————————————————————————————————————–
     but then this is why the riot broke out in the first place
     http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-09/christmas-island-calm-after-stand-off-immigration-department/6922866

     Back-up staff are also being flown to Christmas Island to relieve workers who have been under pressure since death of an Iranian refugee after he escaped from the centre on Saturday.

     “The whole detention centre could be burning down for all we know.”

     —————————————————————————————————————

     so there is no proof that people are living in fear of being ‘bashed’ by kiwis. It seems that people on this Island are more in fear of being forgotten, or put in cages, or otherwise mistreated by the Staff (that was understaffed to begin with).

     Might our Government try to put blame on Kiwis for the riot? If so, why?
     • tracey 6.1.1

       11 November 2015 at 10:44 am

       They have to wait weeks, imo, because the prid quo pro Key has with Australia is they keep them on Christmas Island until Ms Adams has the legislation in place to tag them at the border… in the meantime lying is Key’s “go to”.
7. mpledger 7

   11 November 2015 at 8:01 am

   I don’t know if there were high traffic volumes on this site last night but I couldn’t load this site for about 2 hours. Same with the Daily Blog (and a local college’s website!). Many other sites were fine – stuff, other local colleges, etc.

   Smells fishy.
8. Muttonbird 8

   11 November 2015 at 8:07 am

   Never a clearer sign that Key is weak on something than when “Labour did it too” comes out.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/73903948/john-key-stands-by-claims-australia-detainees-absolutely-free-to-return
   • Sabine 8.1

     11 November 2015 at 8:18 am

     I think the good press that Labour got over the weekend and the applause and good reviews Andrew Little got for his speech on Sunday really had him shit his pants. And those of Bennett, Collins, English and the rest of the cabal, all wore messy panties. And they still are.

     I think there will be images of National MP’s sitting uncomfortable in the chambers witch itching arses.
     • tracey 8.1.1

       11 November 2015 at 8:34 am

       It had Collins callinig out Nash as the only possible saviour of the Labour Party again in her Sunday column….

       http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/73635220/judith-collins-v-phil-goff-talent-only-goes-so-far

       Perhaps this is also what has Key’s undies in a crumple, he knows who Collins has in the shadows and what they do for her when they have a goal?
       • Sabine 8.1.1.1

         11 November 2015 at 8:55 am

         I don’t think he cares. He just wants the gravy train for certain businesses and corporations to continue – after all his future after his stint as Middle Manager of a small little Island Nation depends on it, and for that he needs National to stay in government.

         Frankly, i think his true persona – the smiling assassin – is showing more and more, and its not an aspirational sight nor an inspirational sight and more and more people are being put of by the sheer meanness and pettiness of him and his government and the people he surrounds himself.

         As for Collins, or Bennett, i don’t think either one is going near leadership with National any time soon. Bennett is just simply despised by too many (and yes she is), and Collins is corrupt to the core and does have a hard time covering up her ‘conflicts of interest’. But I would not be surprised if the Nat’s have someone sitting and waiting and we don’t know who it is, as for myself, i don’t care.
         Bennett might be able to remake her persona into something like from rags to riches, but her dismantling of the social welfare state could potentially come back to bite her in her behind.
         • tracey 8.1.1.1.1

           11 November 2015 at 9:33 am

           BUT Collins believe sin pay back double. She may well know her career in politic sis over, but I suspect that wouldn’t stop she and her friends punishing those they/she blames?

           He(Key) did sound and look nasty yesterday in that moment. To me anyway.

           I agree @ smiling assassin.
           • Sabine 8.1.1.1.1.1

             11 November 2015 at 10:08 am

             depends, if she believes it is to her advantage, i would say yes. But on the other side, that business world that she lives in is a small planet, and one hand washes the other. And you never know whom you meet again.

             However, that would not stop someone from being a backstabbing bitchy little tart. 🙂
             • tracey …

               11 November 2015 at 10:33 am

               I think she has the whole business market of China covered, one way or another… especially now she has her certificate in Health and Safety 😉
9. Sanctuary 9

   11 November 2015 at 8:36 am

   A message to Australians who support their governments concentration camps:

   First they came for the terrorists, and I did not speak out—
   Because I was not a terrorist.

   Then they came for the refugees, and I did not speak out—
   Because I was not a refugee.

   Then they came for the New Zealanders, and I did not speak out—
   Because I was not a New Zealander.

   Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
10. infused 10

    11 November 2015 at 8:38 am

    As was said yesterday, kiwis don’t give a shit. Backed the wrong argument here.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/73902227/christmas-island-detainees-living-in-fear-as-kiwis-bash-weaker-inmates
    • Sabine 10.1

      11 November 2015 at 8:55 am

      Yes dear.
      • infused 10.1.1

        11 November 2015 at 8:59 am

        Yep. You’re fucked.
        • Sabine 10.1.1.1

          11 November 2015 at 9:03 am

          bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

          you are such a funny guy.
          • infused 10.1.1.1.1

            11 November 2015 at 9:13 am

            Not as funny as watching Labour, once again, shoot its self in the foot.
            • BM 10.1.1.1.1.1

              11 November 2015 at 9:18 am

              More like in the face.
              • infused …

                11 November 2015 at 9:36 am

                Yeah, this one a bit more so.
              • tracey …

                11 November 2015 at 9:38 am

                I wonder why Key had to lie to achieve that?
                • infused …

                  11 November 2015 at 10:42 am

                  What did he lie about?
                  • tracey …

                    11 November 2015 at 10:46 am

                    sigh

                    it’s cute time is it? Well to use your old worn sweeping statement method he let kiwis think that all of the people on Chrismas Island headed for NZ are rapists, murderers and other sex offenders.

                    He also suggested that he doesn’t support such people. Which he quite clearly does. See weka’s list from yesterday.

                    Now, play your semantics game infused, I am not interested in your torturing of the srategy to make yourself feel better about your support of such behaviour.
                  • vto …

                    11 November 2015 at 10:47 am

                    It’s probably easier if you re-frame the question as “what didn’t he lie about?” The answer will be much shorter
                  • Paul …

                    11 November 2015 at 7:58 pm

                    Keep talking to yourselves….
    • tracey 10.2

      11 November 2015 at 9:38 am

      They don’t when the PM misrepresents and lies to them about the real situation. They might if they believed Key and then worked out that HE is fighting to get the alleged hoarde of rapists relocated here.

      And by Kiwis do you mean you, or do you have a different view of the behaviour based on the actual facts?
      • infused 10.2.1

        11 November 2015 at 10:41 am

        You know excatly what i mean. The general public who labour thinks is so stupid.
        • tracey 10.2.1.1

          11 November 2015 at 10:47 am

          the same general public who now beleves that all the kiwis coming back from Christmas Island are murderers, rapists or other sexual violaters because Key lied to them?
        • tracey 10.2.1.2

          11 November 2015 at 10:55 am

          the PM misrepresents and lies to them about the real situation. They might if they believed Key and then worked out that HE is fighting to get the alleged hoarde of rapists relocated here.
    • Naki man 10.3

      11 November 2015 at 11:48 am

      Yes this part makes Kelvin Davis look like a Grandstanding wanker.

      “A distressed Lebanese detainee told The Australian he feared for his life at the hands of the 501s during a riot that broke out on Monday.

      “They’re f***ing going to kill me … We are in danger. You need to tell someone who cares that our prison is in the hands of very serious criminals.”

      He said the New Zealanders had beaten more than 20 weaker detainees over the last month, stealing their phones and other property.

      “These Kiwis are like a group. There’s about 25 of them. Very, very strong and they are very, very aggressive. We have problems with them. They call us dogs. Dogs and b****es.

      “I got bashed by 14 men … My eyes are destroyed. I cannot see more than 20m. They ­f***ing ­destroyed my life.”
11. ianmac 11

    11 November 2015 at 9:47 am

    Dead Cats. Dead Rats. Wot an awful diet Key has!
    • tracey 11.1

      11 November 2015 at 10:35 am

      CLEVER!
12. Tory 12

    11 November 2015 at 10:21 am

    The man found guilty today of murdering a Christchurch school girl and then torching her family’s home has killed before.

    McLaughlin was sentenced to 12 years in jail. He was deported back to New Zealand in 2001. New Zealand police were told the details of his manslaughter conviction in 2001.

    Phillip’s mother Marriya Vidot, 60, said she was shocked when she heard McLaughlin had killed again.

    ”People in his country should know what he’s done,” she said.

    ”How many lives does he have to take?”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8586976/Jade-Bayliss-killer-has-killed-before
    • tracey 12.1

      11 November 2015 at 10:38 am

      Key, letting 199 marauding rapists and murderers entering NZ very soon… some of them imaginary, which when you think about it is going to make it even harder for people to stay safe….
13. Tory 13

    11 November 2015 at 10:25 am

    ‘Decorated former Lance Corporal Ngati Kanohi Te Eke Haapu, better known as Ko Rutene, has been detained because his visa was revoked on the grounds that he is a member of a motorcycle club’

    War hero ‘my arse’, he has campaign medals, like many of us ex military.

    Perhaps he should have read up on the Australian laws regarding membership of a motorcycle gang before joining.
    • infused 13.1

      11 November 2015 at 10:43 am

      Yeah. People saw through this shit story.
      • tracey 13.1.1

        11 November 2015 at 10:48 am

        “people” “kiwis” the “general public”, How DO you find the time to know what such a huge group thinks AND post in here?
      • Sabine 13.1.2

        11 November 2015 at 10:53 am

        Did you tell that to Marama Fox and the Maori Party?
        Cause it was them who said it. 🙂

        again, wrong tree my friend.
    • Sabine 13.2

      11 November 2015 at 10:43 am

      You do realize that the Patriots are an MC as is Ulysses?

      Also, you are sprouting this on the wrong platform, your comments should be directed towards the Maori Party and the National Party. After all they are hellbent on getting these ‘hardened crims’ to come back to NZ.

      All Kelvin Davis is trying to do is give them the support they need to challenge their deportation away from what they consider their Home Country, so that they get to keep their jobs and stay with their families.

      I know its hard to understand, but really its National doing it. And you and your mates are barking up the wrong tree.
    • vto 13.3

      11 November 2015 at 10:45 am

      “Perhaps he should have read up on the Australian laws regarding membership of a motorcycle gang before joining.”

      ha ha ha ha ha that is funny
    • One Two 13.4

      11 November 2015 at 10:48 am

      “like many of us ex military”

      Naval gazing doesn’t qualify as military, didn’t your mummy tell you that
      • alwyn 13.4.1

        11 November 2015 at 11:02 am

        Some of the very bravest people in the military in WW2 did precisely that. They were the Coastwatchers in the Pacific Islands who watched and reported on the “Naval” movements of the Japanese.
        Are you perhaps one of those people who sit picking lint out of their “navel?
        Didn’t your mummy tell you how to spell these two different words?
        • McFlock 13.4.1.1

          11 November 2015 at 1:12 pm

          Indeed – it being the 11th and all, I recommend people read up on the Coastwatchers. Often civilian volunteers doing a lonely and dangerous, but highly important, job.
        • One Two 13.4.1.2

          11 November 2015 at 7:54 pm

          Extracting The Michael is what that was

          Tory the veteran – Not a chance
          • alwyn 13.4.1.2.1

            11 November 2015 at 9:07 pm

            I wouldn’t have commented at all if you hadn’t added the “didn’t your mummy” bit.
            Otherwise it was only a spelling mistake which I do very, very frequently.
            Usually I then make one in any comment I make about someone else’s slip.

            McFlock is right about their bravery though. I would never have had the courage to do what they did. In general it was a case of if caught you were dead.
            • One Two 13.4.1.2.1.1

              11 November 2015 at 9:37 pm

              The response was not yours to take, but you chose to. You got it wrong, and deflected poorly, and obviously

              Perhaps you are Tory. Neither of you are veterans
              • alwyn …

                12 November 2015 at 4:29 pm

                There, there diddums. Take your tranquilisers.
    • alwyn 13.5

      11 November 2015 at 10:55 am

      You are dreadfully confused. You are using “War Hero” in quite a different vein to the way it is used on this site.
      Have a look at a representative opinion on Willie Apiata, who had the gall to be photographed with the All Blacks at the same time as John Key.
      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-24102015/#comment-1086270
      A “War Hero” on this blog would be someone who deserted I suspect, Provided he claimed that it was John Key’s fault of course.
      Someone like Apiata, who a normal person would regard as a War Hero, is evil.
      • tracey 13.5.1

        11 November 2015 at 11:25 am

        Wow, you should be a hurdler at the Olympics
      • Sabine 13.5.2

        11 November 2015 at 11:34 am

        again Alwyn, no one on the left used the Words ‘War Hero’, t’was Marama Fox from the Maori Party who works with the National Party and is part of ze Government.

        you too, need to take your criticism of the Words used to describe this dangerous non criminal record holding ex Afghanistan Soldier Bikie Gang Member to the Maori Party and admonish them for using the Words “War Hero”.

        wrong Tree….wrong site.
        • McFlock 13.5.2.1

          11 November 2015 at 1:15 pm

          It seems to me that tories regard all veterans as heroes until the veterans are inconvenient, need treatment, have differing opinions, become unemployed, etc…
        • alwyn 13.5.2.2

          11 November 2015 at 1:45 pm

          Sabine, I fear your memory is failing you.
          You, yes you, described him as a war hero in this very blog at 7.01am this morning. Are you telling me you are not part of the left?

          I refer you to
          http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-11112015/#comment-1093807
          where you say
          “A New Zealand war hero is being kept in a high-security prison”

          You will note that I have put quotation marks around the statement, as I am quoting you. There were none in the original so I must assume that they were your words.
          Are you, or are you not of the left?
14. Clean_power 14

    11 November 2015 at 10:27 am

    The Labour Party barking at the wrong tree and defending the wrong people. Again.
    Big fail, check.
    • One Two 14.1

      11 November 2015 at 10:50 am

      “The wrong people”

      Human beings not your kind of people then eh, so perhaps they will come for you next
15. rod 15

    11 November 2015 at 10:30 am

    The Royals have gone and John Key is back on his Nasty pills. Nothing new here folks.
    • tracey 15.1

      11 November 2015 at 10:49 am

      Well said. Not a peep from HRH on climate change or the environment while he was here either…
      • Chooky 15.1.1

        11 November 2015 at 1:24 pm

        ‘Charles talks climate change with Key and Little’

        http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/charles-talks-climate-change-with-key-and-little/

        “John Key and Andrew Little each say their meetings with the Duke of Cornwall covered a variety of topics – including climate change.

        “The Prince has a real passion about work he’s doing in that area particularly for developing states and he’s got an idea that he’s working on that he’s bring to Paris for COP 21,” said Key.

        Little said climate change was also discussed in his meeting with the Prince. …

        ‘Labour leader Andrew Little meets Prince Charles’

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/73856848/labour-leader-andrew-little-meets-prince-charles

        “Prince Charles and Little had a private meeting for 30 minutes, during which time they talked about issues facing New Zealand, including climate change and urban development, as well as a chat about Little’s home town, New Plymouth…

        “He’s clearly concerned about climate change, he’s been talking about that for many years. I think he feels somewhat vindicated that issues he’s regarded for so many years as being a marginal commentator on, are now mainstream…
16. tracey 16

    11 November 2015 at 11:00 am

    Lobby Groups, real not imaginary usurpers of power
17. Whispering Kate 17

    11 November 2015 at 11:55 am

    Have just heard the talk back host subbing for Shaun Plunkett this morning on Radio Live cut off mid-sentence a guy who phoned in and said what a hypocrite Key was abusing the other side of the house yesterday for supporting rapists – he wanted to know what was Key’s explanation about Mike Sabin – wow did the talk back host get shot of him quick and called for an ad break – censorship at work I think. Is everything off limits about Mike Sabin??
    • Gangnam Style 17.1

      11 November 2015 at 12:28 pm

      Yes, the information has been suppressed, you might have seen MS redacting anything close to revealing the information on The Standard (thanks MS). Which also highlights the irony of having to know what the suppressed information is so that you can be careful what information you can share.
      • Whispering Kate 17.1.1

        11 November 2015 at 1:12 pm

        It seems a bit over the top with all this blanket coverage – how important was Mike Sabin for goodness sake – you would think he was royalty – it also beggars belief what his crime was. I also wonder what has happened to Jason Eade?? People just seem to conveniently slide out of trouble and are never heard of again. What’s our justice system for – is it just a law for the “nobodies” of this country?? This country is getting darker by the day.
    • left for deadshark 17.2

      11 November 2015 at 5:48 pm

      If you have time, take a look at a replay of general debate, Green co leader James Shaw half way though maybe speech 7 or 8, he mad some good comments and provoked a telling response from the nact mp.
      • Gangnam Style 17.2.1

        11 November 2015 at 11:12 pm

        & Mark Mitchell (if I have his name right) basically makes a few comments (during Shaws speech) that a dunderhead would even be able to put 2 & 2 together & get the gist of the suppressed crimes. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.
18. Poission 18

    11 November 2015 at 12:43 pm

    From the cant beat em,join em files.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crickhowell-welsh-town-moves-offshore-to-avoid-tax-on-local-business-a6728971.html
19. T 19

    11 November 2015 at 1:33 pm

    Republican Senator Jeff Sessions speaking about the TPP
    The TPP is about a goal of creating a new global regulatory structure, what I have called a Pacific union, transferring power from individual Americans and power from Congress once more. Eroding Congress to an unaccountable, unelected international bureaucratic committee,” the Alabamian said.

    Sessions pointed specifically to the agreement’s creation of a Trans-Pacific Partnership commission.

    “In other words, we are empowering the Trans-Pacific Partnership countries to create really a new Congress of sorts, a group with delegates that goes and meets and decides important issues that can impact everyday life of Americans. So the American representative in this commission, which will operate in many ways like the UN, will not be answerable to voters anywhere,” he said”
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/10/sen-jeff-sessions-tpp-does-not-protect-interests-of-the-american-people/
    This does not paint a pretty picture of TPP to the public,

    For those who want more fine detail, here is the
    audio of Professor Jane Kelsey’s TPP briefing for media held on Mon 9 Nov 2015.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1511/S00032/scoop-audio-jane-kelsey-on-the-tpp-text.htm
20. tc 20

    11 November 2015 at 1:54 pm

    Woody Harleson in the guardian:

    “Of course, we live in a completely corrupted world where every government is just a bunch of businessmen working for a bunch of bigger businessmen and none of them give a shit about the people,” he says. “The sad fact is no one knows how to change it, because no one knows how to take on the corporations. So I guess we’re stuck with this system until the oil runs out.”
    • ropata 20.1

      13 November 2015 at 1:48 am

      Fascinating, thanks
      http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/10/woody-harrelson-interview-we-live-in-a-completely-corrupted-world
21. Puddleglum 21

    11 November 2015 at 4:28 pm

    Why has no-one asked John Key what he meant by Labour ‘backing the rapists’?

    What did he think was being ‘backed’?

    I would really like to hear him elaborate on his statement as I think he may find it difficult to articulate his meaning clearly.
    • left for deadshark 21.1

      11 November 2015 at 5:59 pm

      Good point Puddleglum, maybe too court up in self indignation, not lessening the hurt some felt, but this is politics, they should have a long game, I mean this sort of act/stunt shouldn’t be such an surprise from creepkey.
      • Puddleglum 21.1.1

        11 November 2015 at 10:02 pm

        I was thinking more about why journalists (rather than opposition MPs) hadn’t asked this question.

        Surely, if the Prime Minister makes such a startling claim about opposition parties and MPs it would be the job of journalists to ask in what ways he thinks such ‘backing’ is happening.

        I suspect that Key would have to say, in effect, that he thinks they are ‘backing’ such people by showing concern about their human rights. And, if he said that, his shocked demeanour when making the ‘accusation’ would imply that he thinks that the detainees’ human rights should not be supported (i.e., ‘backed’) in this situation.

        Or is there some other way Key thinks the opposition is ‘backing’ them?

        If so, surely we, the public, need to know just what other sense he is trying to convey?

        After all, it is our Prime Minister who has revealed this to the nation in a manner that suggests that he is shocked by such ‘backing’ so it must obviously be something deeply disturbing about the behaviour of the opposition.

        I suppose I’m pointing out that political journalists should take what the Prime Minister says seriously and at face value (i.e., take the office of Prime Minister seriously even if the incumbent doesn’t) and, in the public interest, they should therefore seek to discover just what the Prime Minister meant on this occasion.

        And, simply asking if he still ‘stands by’ his comments is not the point – first we need to know what meaning he was expressing in making the comments before we can be concerned about whether or not he stands by them.

        If the Prime Minister cannot explain his comment further then it should be reported as some inexplicable and unfathomable random insult for which the Prime Minister has no explanation or justification.
        • left for deadshark 21.1.1.1

          12 November 2015 at 8:51 am

          Yes, but of coarse whats said inside Parliament and outside Parliament are two different legal issues, the MSM have shown theirs colours offen in regard to their bias, meanwhile the minister of everything will tell us, Jurno’s are left wing, with a straight face.
          As I type this over a coffee, I hear Armed Defenders call out near a School in Auckland, I swear the more the people suffer this sort of BS Goverment, more bad things happen in the community, sorry can’t link, only run on about a Gig a month.

          Try an enjoy your day. 🙂
    • whateva next? 21.2

      11 November 2015 at 6:27 pm

      yep, ask him what he is doing with a dead cat on his lap?

      http://publicaddress.net/speaker/cold-calculated-and-cynical/
      • left for deadshark 21.2.1

        12 November 2015 at 8:55 am

        Found it with the dead rats hes trying to feed the likes of you and me. 😉
22. ropata 22

    13 November 2015 at 1:39 am

    citizens have rights, if they are accused they face trial

    slaves have no rights, when accused they are summarily thrown on the scrap heap

    which are we?

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