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Open Mike 11/11/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 11th, 2016 - 102 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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[In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all discussion, comments, link postings etc about the US election under one of the posts about the Election]

102 comments on “Open Mike 11/11/2016”

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      Well, we shouldn’t be surprised after all these years of National cutting health budgets.

      • The Chairman 1.1.1

        Surprised? Not really. More like disgusted.

        • Draco T Bastard

          When the government cuts budgets year after year then services will be cut and those will start with the least critical which the most vulnerable need.

          • The Chairman

            It would cost the state far less to cover her home help than it would to cover her rest home care.

            • Sacha

              Different budget, someone else’s problem. She must feel so betrayed at that age after what she has contributed, having a lifeline cut off so cruelly.

              • The Chairman

                While the funding may come out of a different budget, it ultimately still comes from the state. Hence, one would expect better oversight and communication between departments.

                • Expect away, but departments are still run by humans. In any large organisation, the fact that it’s all the organisation’s money in the final analysis doesn’t prevent individual managers trying to keep their own figures looking good, even if it’s at the expense of the service provided to the organisation’s customers. Blame the post-80s culture of performance reviews and KPIs – if your performance is going to be judged on how well you manage your budget, you bet you’re going to make sure you don’t let it get committed to stuff that’s outside your area of responsibility.

              • The Chairman

                Additionally, she’s probably not the only one to be impacted by the new changes.

            • Draco T Bastard

              They’re using a binary decision tree. If this, then that.

              The new DHB policy means the home care help will only be given to those who also need personal services, such as showering and being dressed.

              However, Cottingham was told she does not qualify for that and so she will lose everything.

              They’re not actually looking at physical realities.

              • The Chairman

                Cutting costs in one area that result in higher costs elsewhere is poor fiscal management.

                • Sacha

                  But the decision is delegated to a manager who is only responsible for one of the cost centres, not the other. Dumps costs on other agencies or on vulnerable people and their families.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Yes, very poor fiscal management and probably even poorer economics as well.

                  It still happens as we can see and probably due to the atomisation of the service as Sacha and PM point out.

                  • Rosemary McDonald

                    “Yes, very poor fiscal management and probably even poorer economics as well.”

                    Actually it is a VERY good decision from a fiscally economic point of view.

                    For want of one and a half hour’s of home help….this lady will be railroaded into a residential facility…obviously against her will….but never mind that.

                    Because she owns her home….the cost of her care in a residential facility will be taken out of her estate when she shuffles off or if she sells her home prior to her falling off her perch.


              • Red

                What bs Draco it will be sorted out at appeal, she has probably just been caught up in a general policy hence the appeal process deals with your binary process, irrespective you pulled that Bs out of thin air, note reading Marx cover to cover 50 times does not make you an authourity on everything

                • Rosemary McDonald

                  “What bs Draco it will be sorted out at appeal,”

                  Hah!…Clearly you have never had to appeal one of these decisions.

                  It is POLICY now….she very well may be fresh out of luck.

                  The people who make these policies and those who make the decisions are often sociopathic heartless bastards.

                  I speak from experience.

  1. Ad 2

    Chloe Swarbrick is running as a candidate for the Green Party.
    Previously one of the Auckland Mayoral candidates.

    • Nick 2.1

      Chloe was a good public speaker at a Mayoral debate I went to. She’d be great for the Green Party.

    • The Chairman 2.2


      I thought she might have been tempted to join TOP.

      Could you imagine Nikki Kaye, Jacinda Ardern and Chloe Swarbrick going head to head to win Auckland central?

      • Lanthanide 2.2.1

        Yeah, “battle of the babes” again. I’m sure they’ll love those headlines.

        • The Chairman

          That headline would ruffle a few feathers.

          Chloe Swarbrick is capable of winning an electorate seat, wonder if the Greens will stand her in one?

          • chris73

            Anyone is capable of course but given her age and experience it’d have to be a very specific electorate seat and Labour would have to not contest it

            • The Chairman

              Can you foresee anyone in Labour willing to stand aside for the Greens?

              • chris73

                Probably not in a winnable seat unless theres a the promise of a very high list spot however its happened before in the Coramandel so never say never

                I would say though that if I was advising the Labour party then to make it more likely Labour/Green win the next election (or to make it more likely NZFirst support them) Labour should look at a deal with the Greens to gift them an electorate seat

    • chris73 3.1

      I’ve been a bit quiet of late as I’ve been organizing the sale of one of my properties and Harcourts have managed to secure an offer 12 grand above my expectations so its still reasonable to expect more for houses

      • The Chairman 3.1.1

        According to the article Hawke’s Bay and the West Coast were the only regions were asking prices dropped.

        • chris73

          I’m surprised about Hawkes Bay, I’d have thought their prices would raise

          • The Chairman

            Most likely related to slow population growth deterring investors.

              • The Chairman

                The key word their is ‘Central’ Hawke’s Bay.

                We were discussing Hawke’s Bay overall.

                • Siobhan

                  Like the article says, if you read it, not just the headline, Hastings and Napier are short of rental housing. They are the main populations of the Hawkes Bay.

                  and they are right, as I live here and am a renter as are many of my friends and customers.

                  • The Chairman

                    Hastings and Napier alone don’t make up the whole Hawke’s Bay region.

                    The article I linked to (and which we were discussing) was talking about the Hawke’s Bay region overall.

                    • Siobhan

                      Are you okay?
                      I get it you are talking about a specific article..but does that mean ignoring something that is a)related but b) doesn’t fit your world view
                      You are talking about the Hawkes Bay but discount Central Hawkes Bay, Hastings and Napier as being too specific?.
                      So what are we talking about…Wairoa? Haumoana?

                      Surely ‘overall’ would be heavily biased to the places where people actually live.

                    • The Chairman

                      I’m fine, thanks.

                      I wasn’t ignoring or disputing it .Simply stating that’s not the case for the region overall.

    • katipo 3.2

      Wonder how this would go down in Auckland…
      “Vancouver slaps $10,000 a year tax on empty homes. Lie about it and it’s $10,000 a day”…

  2. fisiani 4

    Given that it seems obvious that Andrew Little will lose the election next year who do you reckon should lead Labour after the summer BBQ’s? King? Robbo? Ardern? Nash? Parker? Davis? Someone else?

    [This is a left wing space, not a free for all for any prat with a key board. RWers are welcome here if they can contribute to the political debate. Stop with the trolling. Only warning. – weka]

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      How about you just fuck off?

      Really, you’re just trolling here. And it seems to be in desperation now that it’s obvious that National are going to lose.

    • chris73 4.2

      The problem with King (well its not really a problem I guess) is that shes currently 69 years old. Shes probably the best performing member of Labour (and I don’t mean that in a back handed way, I do think shes Labours best) but just to old to lead Labour especially if they’re trying to show a fresh face to the voters

      Stuart Nash is probably the best of the lot to lead but will never be chosen

      • Richard Rawshark 4.2.1

        Then an attack on Annette for being a woman and being of some age that apparently Chris73 denigrates.. This is exactly the bigoted crap we should STOMP on.

      • Siobhan 4.2.2

        Stuart Nash…are you kidding?? .

        “coming second but maintaining our principles’ is a ludicrous proposition.”

        Doesn’t matter what Political stance floats your boat…why would you vote for that?. Unless of course you’re a disciple of Ayn Rand.

        “Nash has been the subject of a surprising amount of positive blog posts by Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater, who calls him a “very good bloke” (he’s also in with Right-wing spin doctor Matthew Hooton)”.
        infact, and I’m happy to be corrected, but I think Hooton actually helped Nash fundraise last election). Either way, is that what we wan’t from Labour??

        Why not just vote for a more moderate National.
        Maybe Nash could move over there.


        • chris73

          I think theres been a shift in thinking in NZ since 2000, prior to that there seemed to be a large swing of the pendulum between left and right, Labour and National.

          Clark took Labour to center left and was rewarded with three terms, John Key has kept a lot of Labour policies and took National to center right and has been rewarded with three terms with the potential for a fourth term so the pendulum swing between Labour and National is not so much and I think thats what the voters of NZ want

          Voters still remember the days of unions striking whenever (especially the ferry during holiday times) and Rogernomics and the upheaval that caused and don’t want a return to that

          Equally no one wants a return to the days of Ruth Richardsons budgets either (I’m sure there are more examples of course)

          So Labour going hard left or National going hard right would be a very bad idea as the voting public would punish them so Labour, under Nash, staying center left would see their best change for re-election

          In my always humble opinion of course

          • Siobhan

            Humble opinions always respected chris73.

            But just remember as time moves on we have younger voters moving in, and even myself, and I’m mumble mumble middle ageish, and we barely remember ferry strikes, let alone Ruth and co.

            What the younger voter knows is crappy wages, in fact so low they need to be subsidised by the Government (Family Tax Credit), crappy hours, job insecurity, no house and rents so high the Government has to subsidise them(accommodation allowances)……maybe Unions might start looking a bit more attractive (though difficult to join when you are on your own negotiating a job you desperately need).

            The bottom line is Labour have been very Centrist for so long that for some people its increasingly difficult to see how different life would really be under either Party.
            Centre Left is for people who own their own home, or soon will, and who had free University education, or can afford to take on the loan. It is not for people starting out in life.

            Now currently the Boomers are the main block of voters, but Labour needs to start talking to the under 40’s and offering them something very very different, or they will find themselves relying on a smaller and smaller pool of support.

            In my humble opinion.

            • chris73

              And thats entirely possible as well, I mean if I could tell the future I’d have Lotto by now

      • mary_a 4.2.3

        @ Chris 73 … if you consider Annette King too old to lead Labour, what do you say about Winston Peters at 71 leading NZ First? Then there is Queen Elizabeth at 90 still going strong! It’s the calibre of the person, not age or gender.

        • chris73

          Well I don’t think you can compare the Queen as its not exactly a position you get voted in for but in regards to Annette King its not that I don’t think she’d do a good job, because I think shes Labours best performing MP, its more that if Labour want to present a fresh, new alternative to a supposed tired National government then someone thats been around since the days of Rogernomics probably isn’t your best choice to lead

    • Bearded Git 4.3


      30+12+8=Key playing golf in Hawaii full-time.

    • Fizzzzzzzz…phut..phut,..phut…
      Reminded me of a firework that fizzed, hissed, burbled and phutted out on Guy Fawkes night. A failure, I guess, but hilarious to watch.

    • b waghorn 4.5

      Little is the right man for next pm , it’s a shame nz may not realise it time to stop another 3 years of short here and now nats bullshit , but i’d give Little my vote to remain leader if it came to it.

  3. Enough is Enough 5


    Would you consider Trump’s policies (well rhetoric actually as he doesn’t really have any policies) on trade and jobs as right wing?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [moved from another thread where it was off topic and likely to derail, but OM is not the right place either. Please take it to one of the US Election threads – weka]

  4. james 6

    The triggering.

    Watched this with my family last night. Made me think of a lot of people on here.

    Amusingly enough it was on the same night a lot of leftie uni students were out on the streets protesting against democracy (the trump victory) because they did not get their own way.

    well worth the watch and thinking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffOPImz4Rp0

    [content warning, video contains racism, sexism, and entitled, priviledged prats belittling people in pain and who are struggling]

  5. Morrissey 7

    More evidence of Jesse Mulligan’s abysmal lack of knowledge.
    Is he the right person to be filling the position of afternoon host?

    The Panel, RNZ National, Tuesday 8 November 2016
    Jim Mora, Golnaz Bassam-Tabar, Michael Moynihan, Zara Potts, Jesse Mulligan

    RNZ National’s Afternoon host Jesse Mulligan has many commendable traits: he’s quick-witted, pleasant and he lets people speak without bullying them or caviling over what they’ve said. He is an enthusiastic—some might say affected—gourmand, and likes nothing better than talking about how to cook artichokes, or where to go in Wellington to get THE best coffee. However, he appears to be lamentably ill-informed about politics, history, and popular culture in general. On Monday he told television critic Phil Wallington that he’d never heard of the legendary New Zealand soap Close to Home; a few weeks ago he’d never heard of “some guy called John Philip Sousa”.

    There’s only one reason why a forty year old man has not even heard of John Philip Sousa or Close to Home. That reason is: he doesn’t read widely. The contrast between him and Kim Hill is enormous, and probably unbreachable.

    It’s a real problem. Mulligan is occupying a seat that was once filled by Jim Mora who, for all his faults, was at least well read and was not continually announcing his lack of any knowledge about topics under discussion. The hosts of National Radio talk-based shows in the past have been people like Sharon Crosby, John Campbell and Kim Hill, i.e., people who read voraciously and could talk intelligently about most subjects. Mulligan by contrast has vast gaps in his knowledge—“some guy called John Philip Sousa”—and feels compelled to inform us on a regular basis of that lamentable fact.

    If you’re a kind and indulgent person, you might well argue that even if he reads little or nothing and knows even less, what’s the problem? Well, the problem is this: an influential radio station will, without doubt, play host to all manner of ideologues, politicians and—perhaps most despicable of all—mediocre academics. If the host is not sufficiently intelligent, he becomes little more than prey to some of very nasty, cynical, agenda-driven people—a useful idiot, in other words.

    A presenter who has no knowledge, or at best a sketchy knowledge, of what is being discussed will end up saying things like THIS….

    “Sometimes when I read this stuff I get the sense that Russia are L-L-L-LOOKIN’ for trouble, are L-L-L-LOOKIN’ to create tension with the U.S. Is that fair?” [1]

    No, that was not a Harry Enright impression of a halfwitted upper class poseur, it was Jesse Mulligan six weeks ago, trying to contribute something—ANYTHING—to an “interview” with Professor Al Gillespie about Syria.

    Last Tuesday, Mulligan took the opportunity, yet again, to reveal his lack of knowledge about almost everything, other than how to cook asparagus, and where to purchase the best coffee….

    JIM MORA: That song sounds like “Burning Bridges”.
    JESSE MULLIGAN: Never heard of it.

    …Stunned silence….

    JIM MORA: From the movie Kelly’s Heroes.
    ZARA POTTS: I’ve never heard of it either.
    JESSE MULLIGAN: When did it come out?

    …Awkward silence….

    JIM MORA: The sixties, I think…..

    ….ad nauseam….

    [1] /open-mike-05102016/#comment-1240290

    • Sacha 7.1

      Gasp. Young person doesn’t know name of military marching band composer who died in 1932. As good a test of whether someone is widely-read as their knowledge of popular pomade or buggy-whip brands. Mulligan was impressive as MC/interviewer at the Auckland Writers festival.

      • Morrissey 7.1.1

        Gasp. Young person doesn’t know name of military marching band composer who died in 1932.

        Beethoven died more than a century earlier than Sousa did, so I guess Jesse Mulligan has never heard of him either, or the even more obscure Mozart. Mind you, that’s quite possible, going by his announcement this afternoon that he has “listened to no classical music.”

        As good a test of whether someone is widely-read as their knowledge of popular pomade or buggy-whip brands.

        No it’s not. Your analogy is absurd.

        Mulligan was impressive as MC/interviewer at the Auckland Writers festival.

        And Mike Hosking was impressive hosting the candidates’ debates two years ago. Your point is?

  6. ianmac 8

    I have lost the side menu on my Mac+ Firefox. Is it just me?

  7. Richard Rawshark 9

    I love the News headlines, for..god knows why actually, but this one cracked me up.

    Gang boss had studded bat and axe.

    am I somehow supposed to be shocked?

    More shocked if it said collection of love poems.

    • Invisible Axe 9.1

      The news last night “The Govt are proposing 110kms for roads, but not for all roads”, well duh!

    • Draco T Bastard 9.2

      More shocked if it said collection of love poems

      He probably kept them hidden in the handle of the bat.

      I have NFI why he’d have a studded axe.

  8. Takere 10

    USS Sampson Visit & the Esmeralda Chilean Torture ship …
    Here’s the programme for the week.

    Its page two & three on the Ngati Paoa iwi Trust facebook page.

    Includes contact details to for people to write too, to voice their opposition to the iwi escorting & supporting the US War Machine into NZ waters.

    Here’s the link to the Ngati Paoa iwi Trusts facebook page;

    The waka Te Kotuiti 2
    Posted on the NP iwi Trust FaceBook page.
    Contact to voice opposition to iwi supporting the oppressor of an indigenous race across the world at “Standing Rock Indian Reservation is a Hunkpapa Lakota and Yanktonai Dakota Indian reservation in North Dakota and South Dakota in by the US Government War Machine.

    Lead by Hau (Eugene) Rawiri self proclaimed Atua of Ngati Paoa.
    Contact number; 021893833

    • b waghorn 11.1

      i know most here hate farming but it does produce food , maybe we should put a carbon tax on pointless shit like pet food , horse racing and cut flowers .
      Of course the rich lefties will still be able to afford their steaks but no more mince for old blue collar Bob !!

      • The Chairman 11.1.1

        A number of consumers would find a 40% increase in the price of beef hard to swallow. Forcing some to cut consumption elsewhere.

        • aerobubble

          Beef is a protein, protien is a commodity. Alternatives exist. The problem with the market for food in NZ is its too centralized and isn’t about to provide a choice of protein alternatives. This costs money, when fod retailers choose to vary price, quality, limit choice, vary availability, they are in the competitive space that a price hike would be easy to adapt to. i.e lots of politucal blowback as voters blame Key for shoddy NZ.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.2

        It’s not a question of hating farming but of questioning farming practices that are doing so much damage to our environment and if we really need so damn much of it.

  9. b waghorn 12


    Main freight has to put more trucks on the road because inept government can’t organise rail.

  10. Bearded Git 14

    This article and audio on Corbyn is interesting in the context of the “insider” Hillary’s failure.


  11. adam 15

    My friends know I’m a bit of a footy nut. This last year has been great. And 2017 looks awesome with the beginning of a AFL Women’s league.

    Now why should that interest you?? – How this for great – the marque player of note – Moana Hope https://twitter.com/moanahope?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

    She is of New Zealand extraction, I’m sure that Aussie speak she is part Maori.

    Here is her on playing and disabled kids in sport


    The only down side of this competition is the pay, and full medical cover for the players. The aim, is when TV and the viewing public pick up the game these will improve, and improve radically.

    I’ll post when the first game is being played.

    Please note I barrack for Fremantle – http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/women

  12. Manuka AOR 16

    Leonard Cohen has passed.

    • All the stars are going out, one by one.

      No doubt we’re going to be hearing Hallelujah a lot in the next few days. I prefer this:

      Thanks, Leonard, you were one of the very best.

    • McFlock 16.2


    • marty mars 16.3

      rip Leonard

      miss you already…

    • joe90 16.4

      He did warn us. RIP Leonard.

      You Want It Darker

      If you are the dealer, I’m out of the game
      If you are the healer, it means I’m broken and lame
      If thine is the glory then mine must be the shame
      You want it darker
      We kill the flame

      Magnified, sanctified, be thy holy name
      Vilified, crucified, in the human frame
      A million candles burning for the help that never came
      You want it darker

      Hineni, hineni
      I’m ready, my lord

      There’s a lover in the story
      But the story’s still the same
      There’s a lullaby for suffering
      And a paradox to blame
      But it’s written in the scriptures
      And it’s not some idle claim
      You want it darker
      We kill the flame

      They’re lining up the prisoners
      And the guards are taking aim
      I struggled with some demons
      They were middle class and tame
      I didn’t know I had permission to murder and to maim
      You want it darker

      Hineni, hineni
      I’m ready, my lord

      Magnified, sanctified, be thy holy name
      Vilified, crucified, in the human frame
      A million candles burning for the love that never came
      You want it darker
      We kill the flame

      If you are the dealer, let me out of the game
      If you are the healer, I’m broken and lame
      If thine is the glory, mine must be the shame
      You want it darker

      Hineni, hineni
      Hineni, hineni
      I’m ready, my lord

      Hineni, hineni

    • Manuka AOR 16.5

      Posted elsewhere by Grey

      Democracy is coming to the USA

      Sail on, sail on
      Oh mighty ship of State
      To the shores of need
      Past the reefs of greed
      Through the Squalls of hate
      Sail on, sail on, sail on, sail on


  13. aerobubble 17

    Has Freeview dropped the parliament channel? Cant get it anymore. Did they move it to a diferent frequency but my tv cant recieve that many channels from the same freq source?

    • Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster 17.1

      My Freeview shifted Parliament from channel 22 to channel 31 – no idea why.

  14. Richard Rawshark 18

    How’s Fairley doing against in the UFC?

    Mt Roskill byelection heats up with claims of ‘man-handling’ and threats


    If you need an angry old man, just holla.

  15. Richard Rawshark 19

    Well it’s a joke.. RiP labour, with the combined efforts of TV1-TV3-Newshub and the Hearald, labour have not got a chance .At all. You may as well disband. Laterz.

    I can’t be bothered at the moment.

    Either go hard or go home.

  16. weka 21

    [In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all discussion, comments, link postings etc about the US election under one of the posts about the Election – weka]

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