Open mike 12/11/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 12th, 2015 - 143 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

143 comments on “Open mike 12/11/2015”

  1. Paul 1

    Key doesn’t turn up to parliament on a Thursday, does he?
    To use his own words “Get some guts.”

    A song for the PM

    • Rosie 1.1

      No chance of him apologising today (or ever probably) Conveniently, he’s on his way to Malaysia.

      The talk here on TS over the last few days on the issue of inhumane treatment of Australians who are NZ citizens in Australian detention camps has been as usual, a very high calibre of conversation. I’ve had no time to contribute.

      Briefly however I will say, how strong and dignified are our women MP’s who would not be shut down in their objections to Key’s amazingly offensive rapists remarks?

      Huge love and respect to you. You are true leaders and shining lights against the darkness of our misogynist PM.

      Tania Billingsley.

      Amanda Bailey

      The victims of a prominent NZer.

      Survivors of sexual assault, abuse and rape sitting across from you in the house.

      And you have nothing but contempt for them PM. Shame on you.

      • Chooky 1.1.1

        +100 Rosie

      • miravox 1.1.2

        Malaysia Huh?

        Speaking of Tania Billingsley, I wonder if the PM will conveniently avoid the start of the Rizalman trial?

        Betcha he’s hoping for a guilty plea so it will be all over by the time he gets back.

        • Rosie

          Good on you Miravox. I was wondering when that was going to take place.

          I’m sure our PM will do what it takes to avoid, deflect and divert any fallout heading his way………………

      • mary_a 1.1.3

        @ Rosie (1.1) –

        Agree with you. And also where were the NatzKEY MPs supporting their Opposition colleagues and other NZ victims of brutal assault and abuse?

        Surely they don’t ALL go along with FJK!

        Do they?

        • Rosie

          I often wonder what the women Natz MP’s really think and feel about Key’s behaviour and statements around abuse of women, including what happened in the house on Tuesday and Wednesday.

          Are they so un self aware that they don’t understand that they themselves are being disempowered by their own leader, or are they really not ok with him but just go along with him out of blind loyalty, or are reluctant to speak out against him because they believe they may get attacked and/or humiliated?

          • mary_a

            @ Rosie ( –

            Yep. All of what you have said in your last paragraph. They could have stood their ground, uniting with ALL victims of violent physical assault and mental abuse and walked out. But they chose not to, preferring to turn their backs on too many Kiwis hurt and maimed at the hands of others, to protect their own positions I’d say, thereby strengthening FJK’s hold on power! Shame on them!

            FJK is a thug and a bully and I’m sure he wouldn’t hesitate to threaten or intimidate any NatzKEY MP, particularly women, if they dared challenge him!

            He’s a filthy cesspit dweller!

          • tracey

            Paula Bennett is leading the charge pretending that Key and she are for protecting the victims of detainees…

            That they are Australians, in Australia rather makes a lie of Key’s pronouncement that “we are for helping New Zealanders”

  2. Manuka AOR 2

    An excellent piece by Brian Rudman on “The shameful lack of political fallout over Aussie Gulags” :
    “The inhumane policy the Australians have adopted of shipping these people to holding pens on remote Christmas Island, 2650 km northwest of Perth, is an outrage.”
    And, “To our shame, New Zealand’s submission to the Australia review made no mention of this.”

    • Paul 2.1

      If your best mate is a bully, shouldn’t you do something about it?

      • Tracey 2.1.1

        “Seven New Zealanders have been flown off Christmas Island, as images emerge of the damage caused by rioting at the detention centre.

        The ABC reported it had witnessed detainees being transported to the Christmas Island airport.

        Australia’s Immigration Minister Peter Dutton subsequently confirmed their removal to a correctional facility in Western Australia.”

        This action (of flying detainess to a WA prison) shows they could have just put them on a plane to NZ at anytime.

        I believe a deal has been done between Turnbull and Key but the deal is the Aussies hold them until Ms Adams has time to get her legislation through.

        Then Key can say he has protected New Zealanders from the marauding hoardes of barbarians descending upon our shores.

        There HAS been a deal between mates Paul, just not the deal most imagined.

        • Halfcrown

          “This action (of flying detainess to a WA prison) shows they could have just put them on a plane to NZ at anytime.”

          A very valid point, You talk one hell of a lot of common sense Tracey, but there again that is something we have come to expect from you.

          • Tracey

            You make me blush

          • Naki man

            “This action (of flying detainess to a WA prison) shows they could have just put them on a plane to NZ at anytime.”

            “A very valid point, You talk one hell of a lot of common sense Tracey, but there again that is something we have come to expect from you.”

            That is assuming they have a passport.
            You do realise that these dangerous crims are restrained and there is security for the safety of the crew on the chartered flight.
            Its not like they can be put on a flight with other passengers.

            • Rosie

              “You do realise that these dangerous crims are restrained and there is security for the safety of the crew on the chartered flight.”

              dangerous crims eh?

              Like Angela Russell, shoplifter, Aussie and happens to be an NZ citizen.

              “Angela Russell is also in the detention centre.
              She was found guilty of shoplifting $1300-worth of cosmetics. It was her fifth offence.
              So far she has spent six months there – twice as long as her sentence.
              She moved to Australia when she was three years old. That was 37 years ago.”

              Read more:

              Yeah. I wouldn’t want to sit next to her on a flight. She might want to share some of her Lancome contraband around.

              • Naki man

                Your five time crim is not on Christmas island.
                There are no women children or shoplifters at Christmas Island detention centre, only dangerous criminal scumbags.
                Thankfully some of them will now be doing another stretch for causing more than 1$mill damage.

                • Rosie

                  Correct Naki Man. She’s not. She’s in another detention centre. Does that make it ok? Is it ok by international human rights expectations that a country would detain a criminal AFTER they had completed their sentence? What makes it worse is that Australia has multiple detention centres. Geez these guys haven’t moved on from the eighteenth and nineteeth century penal colonies.

                  Those “dangerous criminal scumbags” would be better placed to rehab their lives, post imprisonment, in their own communities, surrounded by their own families and networks, in their own country would they not?

                  They are Australians, they belong there. They just happen to be born here but this country means little to the ones the media have spoken to.

                  • Naki man

                    “Those “dangerous criminal scumbags” would be better placed to rehab their lives, post imprisonment, in their own communities, surrounded by their own families and networks, in their own country would they not?”

                    Probably, For some of them the company they keep might be part of their problem. At the end of the day the Australians will deport these crims and we cant stop them. I have no sympathy for slow learners, just the victims of their crimes.

            • Halfcrown

              “That is assuming they have a passport.
              You do realise that these dangerous crims are restrained and there is security for the safety of the crew on the chartered flight.
              Its not like they can be put on a flight with other passengers.”

              Do tell me O Wise one with your superior knowledge. How the fuck did they fly them to Perth?

            • McFlock

              Naki man, you’re full of shit.
              Because when Phillip Smith was deported from South America, the actual rapist and murderer (a real one, not just names key uses for political advantage) who had fled custody was flown back on a commercial flight with regular passengers.

              So, once again, you don’t let facts get in the way of your bile.

              • Naki man

                Did you not read your link

                “We saw him getting off the plane, there was quite a big police escort with him.”

                That’s right,” Quite a big police escort” for one prisoner.

                There is no way that a bunch of dangerous criminal scumbags will be allowed to fly on a commercial flight.
                That is why the rioters where restrained and flown on a chartered plane back to WA. Those are the facts Muppert

                • McFlock

                  “Quite a big police escort”. lol
                  Three officers were with him on the plane.

                  And of course the only reason the aussies flew seven prisoners at once was because the aussies chose to intern them all in the same shitty place at the same time. When, as Tracey said, the Aussies could have just put them on a plane at any time. Even individually over a few days. Like NZ did with an actual rapist and murderer, rather than someone who got caught up when aussie politicians played to the fucktard anti-immigrant brigade.

            • tracey

              So? Charter a plane and fly em back. Use a Hercules. You realise that by far the majority of the Kiwis are not dangerous criminals? Or are you still swallowing the PM’s lies, put out just for gullible fools like you to swallow and repeat?

              • alwyn

                Do you really not see the difference between flying between two places in the same country and between one country and another?
                Do you not see that the reason they are in detention is because they do not want to come back to New Zealand?
                Do you really think they would thank us if we sent a plane over there and, given we have no right to do so, kidnapped them and brought them to New Zealand?
                Come on Tracey, you are normally much more sensible than this.
                Now, just what do you think that the New Zealand Government can do to change Australia’s actions?
                Short of going to war of course.

            • tracey

              “… for instance, indecent treatment or dealings with a child under 16,…”

              Key is standing up for the victims of sexual violence you say”?

              So, he would never support, in any way, say, the Prominent New Zealander awaiting trial? Right?

              “A prominent New Zealander charged with indecent assault has been granted interim name suppression till the beginning of his trial.

              Heavy suppression orders mean the man cannot be identified, nor can his alleged victims or their ages.

              Name suppression lapsed on February 19 but the man had his identity protected for one month to allow him the chance to appeal. The appeal was lodged on March 19 and heard today in the High Court at Auckland before Justice Raynor Asher.

              Several media organisations, including NZME. publisher of The New Zealand Herald, lodged a joint request for the appeal to be heard with urgency.

              The man denies 12 charges of indecent assault against two people, including two representative charges. He has elected trial by jury.

              The charges, which include allegations of touching the complainants on the breast, buttocks, groin and thigh, are punishable by up to 10 years’ imprisonment.”

    • weka 2.2

      What’s the story on the front page of the Dom Post that he holds up?

  3. Manuka AOR 3

    See Andrew Little take on Key and Carter! –
    (Maybe someone can provide a direct link to the vid)

  4. Hanswurst 4

    Ms Watkins’ opinion piece on Stuff regarding the current uproar in parliament is a disgrace. Firstly, the entire focus for the first several paragraphs is on the opposition’s walkouts, rather than the substance of the issue (the fact that this is precisely what was predicted by several commentators on this site and elsewhere does not make it any less disgraceful for a senior journalist to adopt that framing). Secondly, she posits that Labour should have taken the view that Key adopted with his “backing the rapists” comment, and criticised him for being soft on the presumed criminals when they arrived on these shores.

    This, in its turn, is a twice-craven position to adopt. For one thing, it suggests that the only acceptable view (Morally? Politically? The distinction appears to be of no significance for Watkins) is to support the right-wing desire to be indiscriminately tough on suspected criminals over universal respect for human rights. For another, she attaches the condition that Key is correct in insinuating that the majority of those New Zealanders in detention are offenders of the most serious kind. Even if we generously assume that she is not implying that he is correct in doing so, it would seem that she is basing her opinion in a purportedly serious publication on hearsay from the Prime Minister, whereas it should be her job as a journalist to provide informed opinion, and existing work by other news outlets, such as TV3, suggests that it is not difficult to obtain better information on that subject. Either she is incompetent, misleading by omission, or both. There are no other possible interpretations.

    Thirdly, in stating that the opposition is on the wrong side of public opinion on the issue, she once again takes it upon herself to pronounce upon public opinion in a forum which exists precisely for the purpose of informing and influencing public opinion. This may be admissible if she were reporting on an historical issue, whose outcome is a done deal and no longer to be influenced; it may also be admissible if she were to introduce some sort of data such as a poll to make her pronouncements tangibly contestable. As it stands, however, it amounts to saying, “This is what you should think because you think this way already.” The very worst kind of begging the question.

    • Tracey 4.1

      And this is the crux. Key has a deal with Turnbull. It is Adams ramming through some legislation quickly (while the Aussies hold the kiwis offshore) so he can say “I am being hard on them”. But he needs time. And Turnbull has given him that time. Hence so-called troublemakers were flown yesterday to Perth and not to Wellington.

      As for Watkins, if the public is on Key’s side it is because journalists like her have not presented the facts, deception and obfuscation by the PM to them. Have not investigated and continue to substitute opinionising for reporting.

      Through his many actions in relation to treatment of girls and women in this country Key is making this an increasingly unsafe place for girls to thrive by allowing (it seems) large portions of our male society to believe that how they view and treat women is acceptable.


      This one is for our PM

      “So, did you hear about the hair controversy?”
      Asked of Gabrielle Douglas

      “I just wonder if her dad did say to her when she was 12, 13, 14: ‘Listen, you’re never going to be a looker, you are never going to be somebody like a Sharapova, you’re never going to be 5ft 11, you’re never going to be somebody with long legs, so you have to compensate for that,'”
      BBC Commentator about Marion Bartoli”

      “You’re getting a lot of fans here,” “A lot of them are male, and they want to know: If you could date anyone in the world of sport, of movies – I’m sorry, they asked me to say this – who would you date?”
      Channel 7, to Eugenie Bouchard”

      “As your profile rises, people find out more about you, your breast reduction surgery was three or four years ago. Does that play any part in your success? What about outside the tennis?”

      Asked of Simona Halep”

      • Hayden 4.1.2

        It is Adams ramming through some legislation quickly (while the Aussies hold the kiwis offshore) so he can say “I am being hard on them”.

        I wonder what options are available to “be hard on” people who have been convicted of a crime overseas, then served their sentence overseas, then been deported here.

        Edit: or not been convicted of a crime (or even charged) and deported here anyway.

        • tracey

          She has indicated they will impose strong parole provisions on them… You can do anything if you have an Act allowing it.

          Of course the Act maybe completely contravene our International obligations, which Srylands and others told us yesterday they and this Government hold so important.

          • Hayden

            You can do anything if you have an Act allowing it.

            I suppose; I would have thought there’d be human rights issues with paroling people who’ve been law-abiding for a number of years post-sentence, as according to various sources some of them have.

            • tracey

              Hence I wrote

              “Of course the Act maybe completely contravene our International obligations, which Srylands and others told us yesterday they and this Government hold so important.”

              underneath that comment

              • Hayden

                Sorry, I was agreeing with you, but also with regards to our own human rights laws… assuming we have any.

                • tracey

                  ah, I get ya…

                  eroded under this governemnt….

                  respect and compassion for the vulnerable


                  environment (no pun intended)

                  democratic representation

                  respect for females

            • Draco T Bastard

              Our BORA is not supreme law and so parliament can pass legislation that contravenes it.

              • Rosemary McDonald


                AND pass laws that prevent the discriminated against ever making a complaint to the Human Rights Commission or Tribunal ever again.

    • Sirenia 4.2

      Tracy Watkins has consistently been one of Key’s main cheerleaders in the press gallery. Briefly yesterday she sympathised with the women walking out, and wrote something almost neutral for the website, but it didn’t last long. I also suspect she was behind the vitriolic anti-Little editorial in the Dominion Post on Monday.

      • Tracey 4.2.1

        I find she blows hot and cold, so I think in what counts as journalism today that makes her neutral 😉

        BUT this is what happens when journalists are only required to have an opinion on things rather than research and present two sides of something with facts.

        Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.

        • Hanswurst

          I disagree. I was always puzzled to see the extent to which John Armstrong was criticised on here, when he in general at least structured articles as a discourse proceeding from a range of facts, whereas Watkins consistently structures her articles to proceed from a pro-Key (specifically Key personally, more than National) or anti-Labour spin, and to supplement it only such assertions (or, less often, facts) as would support that spin. This has been her modus operandi since before National were elected to the government benches in 2008.

      • mac1 4.2.2

        Very strong criticism of Key in today’s Dominion editorial and also from Vernon Small.

    • aerobubble 4.3

      Wrong. Aussie immigration policy is a national scandal, children raped, children self harming. Abbott forced out. The spin doctors wanted for sometime to portray those in detention as criminals, but the last people who turn up after waiting years and limited cash left are those who would turned away immediately with criminal records.

      So what cost Abbott his job? Sending criminals who have served their time, not doing the correct thing, allowing a judge at sentencing to deliberate, or allowing convicted criminals time before release to make a case, no the immediacy of the extension of punishment is what so undermines the integrity of the whole sorry saga. And now we hear that one suicide later, a riot, that they are criminals, why did so prick realize that they have human rights, that having served their time it was prejudical, or worse that those individuals use as political pawns might have huge ongoing political blowback for years. Aka why Abbott was ejected seated from on high.

      But its worse. Imagine that, you put hardened agitators with long histories of civil disobedience in with families desperate to do the right thing to win favor. It was always going to come to a riot, that’s the worst form of govt, putting rapists in with children.

      So let discuss Key, firstly he should resign as is obvious from English smirking at the time it was premeditated. Second, Key is endevavoring to do right by these convicted kiwis. Third, how does it help the oz pm when he was expecting to get the criminal immigration photo op turdblossum, now he has the nightmare of rapists with immigrant families in detention. Fourth, well done opposition for helping make that connection it seems the opposition played this up, dragged their feet, to let the world peak in on how empty hollow Key is. Remembering that putting Key with a class of long hair girls…

      But wait. So for real. A kiwi who lived his whole waking life in oz, without family in nz, with no knowledge of culture, of language differences, is hauled out of prison after serving their time, to be told they have no life effectively, and so killed themselves. Wtf.

      Parliament shame. Its the debased nature of the debate led by the PM that should sicken.

  5. North 5

    Ponce-Key-Fanboy-Rawdon-Christie…….TV One Breakfast this morning…….the loyal smarm cheerleading for the unrepentant waitress assailant……identifying the essential issue as this – “Question Time in Parliament is just too unruly !!!” – (suggestion of pearls clutching and “tut tut tut”).

  6. weka 6

    Man is stabbed in a park. His friend goes to the nearby hospital to get help and then returns to his injured friend. Hospital rings police and sends ambulance but can’t find the injured man so they give up. Injured man is carried by his friend and another man to hospital, but dies after arrival.

    Here’s the timeline,

    Man stabbed sometime during the evening

    10.15pm man tells hospital his friend has been stabbed in nearby park

    10.16pm hospital notify police

    10.52pm amulance called

    ~ 11pm man carried friend into hospital

    11.12pm ambulance cancelled (by police)

    11.19pm stabbed man dies

    Looks like several systemic failures, but the bit I left out is that both men are described as homeless.

    • Daniel Cale 6.1

      …and we should be far more concerned about that than a bunch of no-hopers walking out of parliament.

      • Red Blooded 6.1.1

        What a cold heartless thing to say. Shame on you Daniel. I hope your Mother, Sister, Aunt or Daughter, or for that matter, their male equivalents don’t become victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse and if they do I hope they receive better empathy from those around them than you portray today.

        • Daniel Cale

          My distain for these people is because of their using these experiences for political point scoring. Yesterday’s episode was a pre-arranged, coordinated ‘protest’. They played on experiences that haunt many NZ’ers, and belittled every survivor of abuse in so doing.

          [RL: This is your only and last warning. I am running zero tolerance for idiocy on this thread. Repeat anything like this and you will take a week off.]

          • weka

            lolz, a bullshit politicallly manipulative comment if I ever saw one. Do tell us about all the work you’ve done on rape and violence prevention in NZ.

          • Rosie

            Daniel Cale

            You say:

            “They played on experiences that haunt many NZ’ers, and belittled every survivor of abuse in so doing.” Referring to the women MP’s who walked out of the house yesterday.

            Are you a survivor of sexual abuse? Did you feel belittled?

            I AM a survivor and I felt strengthened by their actions. By standing up to the PM they also honoured all of us who are survivors. They did something very powerful and true to themselves. We need to be proud of them. I am.

            [RL: No quibble with your comment at all – but Daniel is very much on warning.]

            • Rosie

              Yes, saw that thanks RL. Good.

            • Daniel Cale

              Hi Rosie. Given the threat of a ban, I will be careful. In answer to your questions, yes and yes. As a teenager I was indecently assaulted by an older man, not once but several times. But I also have based my comments on listening to feedback from other survivors. My sympathies to you for your experience. I certainly meant no offence to you.

              • Rosie

                Likewise Daniel, I’m sorry you had that experience. Thank you for sharing.

                So you can see we all respond in different ways to others speaking up. Perhaps our perceptions are coloured by the way we handle our experiences, eg, we transfer our anger on to other victims and whether we did or didn’t have access to support. I’m not sure.

                I do know those women would have to pull some deep seated strength from inside to speak out so publicly and under such duress in the house. Some, including Metiria Turei did this for the very time. That is the hardest time ever.

                The night before they spoke out they would have talked to their families and partners. Quite a bit of psychological energy would have gone into that.

                They didn’t pull a stunt, they stood up for all victims.

                In my eyes they have increased their mana considerably.

                But thats just my view and I respect that you, as a fellow survivor might view it differently.

      • tracey 6.1.2

        and yet you are not, cos Weka posted it, and her concern, not you.

      • weka 6.1.3

        you think that women who have been sexually assaulted and have worked to support those who have been sexually assaulted are ‘no-hopers’?

        Good to know that your compassion only applies to the people that you approve of and that that excludes women and rape victims.

        • tracey

          When you are feigning compassion, as Daniel is, it is hard to get it right

          • Colonial Viper


          • Daniel Cale

            I’m not feigning compassion for anyone. I have little or no compassion for the inhabitants of the detention centre. The vast majority are criminal ratbags, who are being detained pending deportation.

        • Daniel Cale

          “you think that women who have been sexually assaulted and have worked to support those who have been sexually assaulted are ‘no-hopers’?”

          When did I say that?

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.4

        Strange, I could have sworn that the National MPs had stayed in parliament rather than walk out in response to their leader’s and the Speakers vitriol.

      • Gabby 6.1.5

        Yes well concern for anyone would be a start Dannie. You work on that ok?

  7. esoteric pineapples 7

    Disturbing but not surprising that the government is planning to stuff the environment court with its own people after it didn’t get its way with undersea mining off Taranaki and the Chatham Islands. This will turn the court into a rubber stamp for all environmentally harmful projects (otherwise why would they bother changing it). It was also interesting to see on a news item someone involved with one of the projects saying it had cost them a lot of money. That’s the sort of thing that will lead to the government being sued in future, not just for lost spending but any potential profit.

    • tracey 7.1

      It’s just the environment, we dont need it to survive. Unlike money.

    • savenz 7.2

      If the courts say NO to this government then the government says WE CHANGE THE LAWS.

      The National government have gone too far, they are dictators in the way they behave.

      If a government spies on it’s people on mass and then starts replacing the judges and changing the judicial laws to serve their own interests – people need to face it, we are NOT being run as a democracy.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1

        National have always been dictators but they’re getting more blatant in their dictatorial actions.

        • weka

          In the early 80s Muldoon didn’t like the High Court ruling against the building of the Clyde Dam so he introduced legislation to get around it. At the time this was shocking, that the government could overrule the courts. But this kind of flouting democracy and its institutions and conventions is routine now and people barely bat an eyelid. That’s the legacy of the Key government. I bet they are proud.

          • Draco T Bastard


            This is why we need a way to limit the power of government. They should not be able to do whatever they like as that always results in arbitrary rule changes as we’re seeing now under this government.

  8. Tautoko Mangō Mata 8

    Two interesting TPP snippets.

    1. “TPP Financial Services Chapter Opens Door To Broader ISDS Claims
    Updated: The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) chapter on financial services gives private firms in that sector broader grounds to sue member governments than previous U.S. free trade agreements by incorporating obligations for parties to accord a “minimum standard of treatment” to financial services investments and subjecting that commitment to investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS).

    2. “The real reason Wall Street loves the Trans-Pacific Partnership”
    US-based banks are going to make money selling financial services in Asia, and some of that money will flow into the pockets of people who work in the financial services sector in the United States. That’s why the US Coalition for TPP includes the American Insurance Association, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley.

  9. David H 9

    Has anyone tried to play the Todd Barclay question from yesterday? I have tried every connectable device I have and they all say it’s not there. All the other questions are there just not this one. What are The Speaker? and Tandem Studios up to? And did anyone record the live stream?

  10. Morrissey 10

    Paul Henry’s thoughtful viewers have worked it out:
    It’s KELVIN DAVIS who’s causing all the trouble on Christmas Island!

    Paul Henry, TV3, Thursday 12 November 2015

    Television viewer polls have about as much credibility as an Ohio election count. No one except fools, psychopaths and ACT voters would ever take one seriously. The Paul Henry daily poll question is always inane, and often quite offensive. Yesterday, the question asked was “Do you care about the Christmas Island detainees?” Seventy per cent of respondents said NO.

    The same viewers who don’t care about people being illegally detained by a scofflaw regime have obviously been thinking hard about this, and have this morning been sharing their insights with Charlotte in the tech bunker….

    PAUL HENRY: People are going to get bored with this Christmas Island detainees story soon.

    HILLARY BARRY: [nodding] Mmmm. Yes.

    JIM KAYES: [nodding] Hmmmm.

    PAUL HENRY: I told Kelvin Davis that when he was on the program. Charlotte in the tech bunker, what are the viewers saying?

    CHARLOTTE: Actually, Paul, people are saying he should GET OUT OF THERE. They reckon that Kelvin Davis is the catalyst for the rioting.

    PAUL HENRY: “The catalyst for the rioting”? That’s giving him more credit than he deserves. He hasn’t got that much influence. But he’s still cranking it up….

    ….ad nauseam….

    • tracey 10.1

      So all Henry has proven is that FACTS are irrelevant if the person pushing the misinformation is sincere enough in their deception of the audience, or sincere in their ignorance?

      • Morrissey 10.1.1

        I think calling the people who vote in those ridiculous polls “ignorant” is indulging them. I think they know perfectly well that the Australian government is breaking the law, that the prisoners are being ill treated, and that Key is nothing more than a crony of the Australian regime. Those viewers are—like Henry—simply determined to back the government, no matter what, and are indifferent to the suffering of other people.

        • tracey

          I was calling Henry ignorant

          • Morrissey

            I don’t think Henry is ignorant. He shows signs now and again that he does have a sense of right and wrong. For entirely ideological and partisan reasons, however, he almost always sides with the government.

        • Gabby

          Not a great surprise that Dipshit Henry’s audience is a select group of likeminded individuals.

  11. Penny Bright 11

    FYI – amongst the chaos in the House yesterday, the following petition made it’s way into the Parliamentary ‘sausage machine’ ……

    Petition of Penelope Mary Bright and 55 others

    That the House conduct an urgent inquiry into the cost-effectiveness, transparency, and democratic accountability to Auckland Council and the majority of Auckland citizens and ratepayers, of all Auckland Council Controlled Organisations (CCOs).

    Petition number: 2014/33
    Presented by: Ron Mark
    Date presented: 11 November 2015
    Referred to: Local Government and Environment Committee

    Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright

  12. Chooky 12

    ‘Oakland sues Monsanto for ‘long-standing contamination’ of San Francisco Bay’

    “Agrochemical giant Monsanto knowingly contaminated Oakland’s storm water and the San Francisco Bay with a highly toxic chemical for decades, a new lawsuit filed by the California city claims. Oakland wants the company to pay for the environmental cleanup.
    The State Water Resources Control Board determined that the presence of highly toxic polychlorinated biphenyl (PCBs) in Oakland’s storm water threatens the San Francisco Bay’s ecosystem and interferes with the bay’s use and enjoyment by Californians, the city said in a statement….

    (Doesn’t ACT support and advocate for Monsanto?…free market and all that….and where will the TPPA leave NZ and Monsanto?)

  13. Puckish Rogue 13

    We sure do

  14. The Chairman 15

    Bill Rosenberg calls for an independent impact assessment of the TPPA, questioning the bias of committed parties like the Government, MFAT and NZIER.

    This is a drum all opposition parties should be harmoniously banging.

    • tracey 15.1

      Has Govt, MFAT and NZIER release their cost/benefit analyses?

      I read Catherine Beard the other day and thought she was hardly impartial. I also marvelled at the speed by which she got through the 6000 pages.

    • Colonial Viper 15.2

      Meets 4 out of 5 of Labour’s “bottom lines.”

      And yes, its amazing how fast they can read 6,000 pages in that caucus.

      • weka 15.2.1

        the scarey thing is I suspect that Labour believes the 4 out of 5 thing on the basis of the meeting with Groser.

        • savenz

          Part of the problem is that Little’s parents voted National likewise Clark.

          They really want to believe in the status quo like TPP. Nobody could possibly be lying to them could they?

          Little need to bring a different type of Labour member like Kelly Ellis into their cosy meetings with the Natz, someone who has a better understanding of power corruption than Little, Shearer etc and outside the mould and used to experiencing criminal and morally bankrupt behaviour without the veneer of parliament to soften the impression.

          • savenz

            With her experience with gang members she could see straight past Grosser and Key – gang members in suits of a different kind.

      • The Chairman 15.2.2

        @ CV

        So they now say.

        Yet, they still concede to one not being met.

        However, instead of walking away, it seems Labour think renegotiating their ability to ban offshore buyers somehow resolves the whole investor settlement dispute and loss of sovereignty concern.

        • savenz

          @The Chairman – crazy Labour position – their voters will NOT like them selling out on the other 4 conditions (if that is their position which quite frankly I’m keen to find out in a clear way – the txt is out – so they need to make a clear decision) which clearly have NOT been met. In particular ISDS and Pharma sell outs.

          Who does everyone believe, Jane Kelsey – International Law expert or Grosser who is an idiot?

  15. savenz 16

    A Waikato law student is suing the government over its climate change policy, claiming its greenhouse gas emissions targets were arrived at illegally, and that the low emissions reduction pledge it will make in the upcoming UN climate conference in Paris in December is “unreasonable and irrational”.

  16. Karen 17

    Fantastic article about John Key and his attitude to rape and abuse:

    • Rosie 17.1

      Thanks Karen. That’s a solid history of the Key government’s failings towards survivors of sexual abuse in regard to funding cuts left right and centre since 2008. It also puts a spotlight on Key’s own persistently misogynist behaviour. He’s got a really troubling track record. He’s a freaking creep.

      Italy had Silvio Berlusconi. We have John Key.

    • tracey 17.2

      Given Key clearly thinks that apologies are for the weak, you have to ask yourself WHAT Slater has on him to get an apology from him.

      ” “I regret any harm that may have been caused to you or your family…”
      23 Nov 2014

      People forget that the only reason Ms Billingsley went public with her identity as the victim of attempted rape is that the PM said if he knew her name he would apologise.

      “”I don’t know her name. Obviously it’s a matter of privacy, but I think there’s been plenty of public comments that would echo what I’ve just said,” he said.

      Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes, in so much that I believe that she shouldn’t have had to go through what she went through.”

      And then reneged cos it wasn’t a “serious reason” to apologise…

      Yeah he really supports victims of sexual crime our PM.

    • Chooky 18.1

      …+100…good!…at last the NZ farmers are sitting up and taking notice…and opposing the TPPA…of course it will lead to foreign farm ownership!

      …really the TPPA is only good for jonkey and his bankster / investment mates like Goldman Sachs…NZ is being led like a lamb to the slaughter…they will gut New Zealand

      • savenz 18.1.1

        The current ‘free’ trade deals have already led to huge farm sales. Are the farmer’s benefiting from this ‘prosperity’ – I would think at $4.80 kg of milk solids – NOT.

        Instead of foreigners buying our milk they are buying our country.

    • tracey 18.2

      They will still vote for NACT in droves

  17. Sabine 19

    Phil Twyfords Bill to prevent NON_Resident Foreign Speculators to buy property in NZ has been drawn and will be debated.
    This is a good thing.

    abour’s Member’s Bill to ban foreign buyers from purchasing existing homes will achieve what the Government failed to in its Trans Pacific Partnership negotiations, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says.

    “The Government should adopt the Overseas Investment (Protection of New Zealand Homebuyers) Amendment Bill and get New Zealand the carve out Australia secured through its negotiations.

    “The sovereignty of the New Zealand Parliament should never have been traded away and this Bill is a case in point.

    “Opinion polls show New Zealanders overwhelmingly want non-resident investors stopped from buying homes here.

    “Labour isn’t against foreign investors but inviting overseas speculators to trade in Kiwi homes for capital gain is entirely non-productive. It produces no jobs or exports, and pushes up house prices beyond the reach of first homebuyers.

    “In the past year in Australia, a similar policy as resulted in $30 billion worth of overseas money building new homes there. My Bill will result in foreign investors channelling their capital into the building of new houses in New Zealand,” Phil Twyford says

    • savenz 19.1

      So is Labour ok under TPP for other countries to sue us via IDS or set up Charter schools, reduce our biosecurity, and have lengthened patents then?

      • Sabine 19.1.1

        I don’t know. We could ask. In fact I will ask my Labour MP.

        But for what its worth, this bill has been drawn and will be debated. And for today that is my good story.

        baby steps. baby steps.

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      Labour isn’t against foreign investors but inviting overseas speculators to trade in Kiwi homes for capital gain is entirely non-productive. It produces no jobs or exports, and pushes up house prices beyond the reach of first homebuyers.

      Foreign investment doesn’t do any of that either.

    • The Chairman 19.3

      “In the past year in Australia, a similar policy has resulted in $30 billion worth of overseas money building new homes there”

      Billions of dollars worth of overseas money being invested in land here (Auckland) will drive up the price of land, thus add to the cost of housing. Defeating the objective.

  18. ianmac 20

    Re Carters ruling on acceptable language in the chamber; today in Q1 at QT Robertson challenged Carter to let him use Key type language in a question. Watch from 7:30. as Carter tries to justify his ruling.

  19. Morrissey 21

    Why is Radio New Zealand citing a scurrilous Murdoch rag?
    Checkpoint, RNZ National, Thursday 12 November 2015, 5:15 p.m.

    Surely the coverage of the Christmas Island detainees is shoddy enough without supposedly serious outlets like Radio New Zealand parroting the Murdoch press.

    On Checkpoint this afternoon, Ruth Hill claimed that public opinion in Australia was “hardening against the Christmas Island detainees.” As evidence of this “hardening of public opinion”, she cited an item in the notorious Murdoch rag the Brisbane Courier Mail, which included the phrase “Thug Kiwis” in the headline.

    We need decent, honest, rigorous reporting of what the Australian government is doing, and what its junior partner John Key is approving. So far, Radio New Zealand is failing badly.

    • Sabine 21.1

      i guess they did not want to use this article of Thug Brits.

      “When Wightman was released from jail in September, Western Australia’s prisoners review board noted he had completed all rehabilitation programs and had demonstrated “a motivation to change his offending behaviour”.

      “A limited criminal history indicates an ability to lead a pro-social life,” it said.

      But Wightman was apprehended immediately on leaving prison and detained at Yongah Hill detention centre, 90km east of Perth, for eight weeks before he was suddenly flown to Christmas Island in the middle of the night.

      Some of the other guys’ stories, they are just tragic. These people shouldn’t be there. This is just wrong
      Gary Wightman
      Wightman’s brother Gary told Guardian Australia it was “morally wrong” that his brother was being held in immigration detention indefinitely.

      “It’s just wrong on any moral level that people are in there in those conditions. Ian was convicted of a crime, he was sentenced and punished. He served his time and he was rehabilitated. He was released a free man but then they arrested him at the gates.”

      He said Ian was finding immigration detention much harsher than prison. He has told family he was “keeping his head down” and did not participate in the riots that razed significant sections of the detention centre this week.

      “But it’s just wrong. With prison, you’ve got your start date, you’ve got your end date,” Gary Wightman said, “you know how much time you have to serve. But this, it’s just the uncertainty, they’ve got no idea when he might be released. It’s unbelievable. This detention is far, far worse than prison.”

      Gary Wightman said his brother had told him there were dozens of other detainees – known as 501s after the section of the Migration Act that applies to their cases – with similar lifelong links to Australia in detention, facing deportation to countries they hardly knew.

      “Some of the other guys’ stories, they are just tragic. These people shouldn’t be there. This is just wrong,” he said.”

      and oh lookit the rape thingy does come from OZ….(our PM is really just a Handpuppet)

      ““These people [on Christmas Island] are serious criminals and people who have been involved in attempted murder, in manslaughter, convictions for rape, convictions for grievous bodily harm and serious assaults otherwise.”

      He said some detainees on Christmas Island had been assessed as an “extreme threat”.

      Dutton said visa cancellation for non-citizens convicted of a crime was unremarkable internationally and had been part of Australian migration law since the second world war.

      “If somebody is here on a visa … if they’ve committed a crime they have their visa cancelled. And they face the criminal penalty and administratively their visa is cancelled. In this case they’re taken into custody and they await deportation.”

      The number of people detained under section 501 rose more than 600% in a year, from 76 in 2013-14 to 580 in 2014-15.”

  20. Draco T Bastard 22

    Just caught on TV1 News that the government is looking at stopping people betting offshore as the TAB is losing money.

    It appears that the politicians really didn’t know what they were doing when they signed all those FTAs and joined the WTO that allowed for and encouraged free money movement across borders.

    • Chooky 22.1

      they should stop people putting money in Australian Banks and other foreign offshore banks first

      ( one rule for the banksters and another for the small punters)

      ‘Q&A: Are Australian banks really rorting New Zealanders?’

      “Some people might be surprised to find there are 25 registered banks in New Zealand.

      Of those, the big four Aussie lenders dominate, with about 90 per cent market share.

      ANZ, ASB, BNZ, and Westpac have just hauled in a collective $4.59 billion of annual net profits, hoovered out of the pockets of New Zealanders to feather nests across the Tasman.

      Some politicians believe the super-profits are “strip-mining” the economy…

      ‘Brian Gaynor: Profits for banks, loss for New Zealand’

      ….”Finally, the banks have a huge influence over the allocation of the country’s economic resources because we have a shortage of equity and a strong reliance on borrowings to fund commercial activity.

      The banks, particularly the four major Australian-owned banks, have a strong bias towards the housing market as residential mortgages now represent 50.5 per cent of total bank lending compared with 47.7 per cent at the end of 2004. By comparison, residential mortgages have fallen from 36.3 per cent to 35.2 per cent of total Australian bank lending over the same period

      …The combination of offshore borrowing and residential property lending is a prudent strategy as far as the overseas banks are concerned, from both an earnings and capital requirement point of view.

      But it is not a win-win situation as far as the New Zealand economy is concerned, particularly considering the impact on the country’s current account deficit.

  21. sabine 23

    a picture diary about syrians, boats, drowned babies and life

  22. Mike the Savage One 24

    Most problems in this world are based on tribalism and religion, we should ban and prohibit both, or there will be NO progress for humanity:

  23. Mike the Savage One 25

    Chechen radicals ha e something to answer, I struggle to see any reason to feel solidarity
    for some;

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    The CivilianBy admin
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  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    1 week ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Hard News: Time for a New Deal: 25 years on
    In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Not impressed
    KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Solar beats coal
    As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Step Too Far.
    A Crown Asset? For reasons relating to its own political convenience, the Crown pretends to believe that “No one owns the water.” To say otherwise would re-vivify the promises contained in the Treaty of Waitangi – most particularly those pertaining to the power of the chiefs and their proprietary rights ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Where Money Comes From
    Most people would say, no doubt, that they have a pretty good idea of what money is. They live with the reality of money every day. It is what is needed to buy the necessities of life and to maintain a decent standard of living. You get money, they would ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Banned by the Green Party leadership: Jill Abigail on women’s rights and trans rights
    The article below was an opinion piece that appeared in the Spring 2019 issue of Te Awa (the NZ Green Party’s newsletter) and on the Greens website.  In keeping with their policy of hostility to women defending women’s right to female-only spaces, Green bureaucrats have since removed the opinion piece.  ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The fallacy of the proximity argument.
    Longer term readers may remember my complaining that, as a political scientist, it is burdensome to have non-political scientists wanting to engage me about politics. No layperson would think to approach an astrophysicist and lecture him/her on the finer details of quarks and black holes, but everybody with an opinion ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Where We Stood: Chris Trotter Replies To Stevan Eldred-Grigg.
    Joining The Fight: Stevan Eldred-Grigg's argument for New Zealand staying out of the Second World War fails not only on the hard-headed grounds of preserving the country’s strategic and economic interests; and not just on the soft-hearted grounds of duty and loyalty to the nation that had given New Zealand ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Universities back the climate strike
    On September 27, School Strike 4 Climate will be striking for a future to pressure the government for meaningful climate action. This time, they've asked adults to join them. And now, Lincoln University and Victoria University of Wellington have signed on:Victoria University of Wellington has joined Lincoln University in endorsing ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Another constitutional outrage
    Another day, another constitutional outrage in the UK. This time, the government is saying that if parliament passes a law to stop Brexit before being prorogued, they may just ignore it:A senior cabinet minister has suggested Boris Johnson could defy legislation to prevent a no-deal Brexit if it is forced ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ending dairy in Canterbury
    Environment Canterbury has finally proposed nitrogen limits to stop dairy farmers from poisoning Christchurch's water supply. And naturally, farmers are whining about it:A proposed move by Environment Canterbury (ECan) to protect Christchurch's drinking water by setting tough – some would say, draconian – nitrate reductions in the decades ahead and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Is National the party of climate arson?
    The Zero Carbon Bill is currently before select committee. While its targets are weak, its a generally sensible bill that promises to establish a long-term framework to guide emissions reductions. But National hasn't made up its mind on whether it will support it - and according to Andrea Vance in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Experts warn Harold the Giraffe “well past” typical giraffe life expectancy, may not have long
    Dum-de-doo. Children across New Zealand have known him for generations as the lovable giraffe who tells them to exercise, hydrate and not to shove lit cigarettes up their nostrils. But a world renowned giraffe expert says we shouldn’t be getting attached to Life Education’s Harold the Giraffe, as he is ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • August ’19 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: 22 BLOGGERS WITH ADVICE FOR RESEARCHERS AND EVALUATORS, ILLUSTRATED I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Bye, bye to the collusion lie
    Sums it up, really. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Opinion: Treat your car by buying extra petrol to snack on while you aren’t driving
    By Mike Hosking. Yesterday morning, I waltzed into work, and as I walked past the drones aggressively typing out news on the computers I’ve repeatedly asked to be moved further away from, I caught a glimpse of the words “climate change”, and noticed that suspiciously they weren’t in condescending quotation ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago

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