Open mike 12/12/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:48 am, December 12th, 2013 - 150 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step right up to the mike …

150 comments on “Open mike 12/12/2013 ”

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  1. felix 1
    12 December 2013 at 6:58 am

    “I just tell them I don’t remember”

    “What? But it was apartheid John”

    “Hahaha yeah I know! So then I say ‘Oh but it was so long ago’! Hahahahahaha!”

    “Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!”

    http://static0.nydailynews.com/imageserve/b1981267d824013d553e767f025ca909/1200x.jpg

  2. phillip ure 2
    12 December 2013 at 7:24 am

    the national party..

    ..consistent in their consistency of being on the wrong side of history..

    ..from the vietnam war-crimes..thru to the ‘drill baby drill!’/’wot climate-crisis?’ of today..

    ..and via ‘the terrorist’..nelson mandela..

    ..the national party..always getting it so so ‘wrong’..

    ..phillip ure..

  3. Philj 3
    12 December 2013 at 8:22 am

    Xox
    More Beggars/homeless in Wellington streets. More state beneficiaries in the beehive…

  4. bad12 4
    12 December 2013 at 8:34 am

    A round of applause to the Wellington City Council for being No1 in agreeing that all it’s employees will be paid the ‘Living Wage’,(the monies for this coming from freezing the salaries of those higher up in the food chain),

    And, a large f**k you to the spokesperson from the Wellington Chanber of Commerce for ‘whining’ about the above vote…

    • infused 4.1
      12 December 2013 at 8:48 am

      It’s easy to spend other peoples money. I bet you look forward to rate increases, or let me guess, you don’t live in Wellington?

      Clear as day why this is flawed: http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/advice-shows-%E2%80%9Cliving-wage%E2%80%9D-would-not-work

      And this is key

      “The “living wage” idea is based on a two-adult, two-child family, yet analysis shows that people in this situation make up only 6 per cent of families earning less than $18.40 an hour. Almost 80 per cent of those earning less than $18.40 are people without children, including young people and students.”

      • bad12 4.1.1
        12 December 2013 at 9:01 am

        Confused, you guessed wrong,(as usual), a Wellington resident i am and have been most of my life,

        So, it’s alright in your mind,(admittedly said mind from here has the appearance of suffering an as yet to be diagnosed disease),for the hierarchy of management at the Wellington City Council to be paid amounts up to $500,000+ annually,a fact i have yet to see you or any of the other ‘Wing-Nuts’ who appear on the Standard kick your afflicted little minds into whine mode over, but,should those who earn the least gain a pay rise that is adjudged to be the minimum a worker should expect to be able to ensure for Her/Himself and any family a ‘normal’ standard of living you choose to whine as if you are to pay the monies yourself,

        The Wellington City Council have said that rates will not rise as a result of their applaudable vote FOR the ‘Living Wage’, the intention is to freeze the wages of those higher up the ‘food chain’ of council salaries,

        To abbreviate the above, F**k off Noddy…

      • just saying 4.1.2
        12 December 2013 at 9:37 am

        As I recall, the living wage regarding two parent and two kid families involved the other parent working half-time at the living wage, and working for families and other WINZ top-ups.

      • KJT 4.1.3
        12 December 2013 at 11:24 am

        We could, of course reduce rates by cutting the overly generous pay of the non-working management, or reducing the administrative staff on over 100k a year.

        A couple of good secretaries, on 60k, would do the job just as well.

        Even more fat at the top to cut in Auckland. How many “Managers” do POAL, and other CCO’s, have, Again!

        • bad12 4.1.3.1
          12 December 2013 at 3:11 pm

          Yes KJT, what i suggested yesterday was that the Wellington City Council cut the CEO’s role into 2 positions each paying 200 grand a year, that would have been a saving of $100,000+,

          i have not as yet done the research necessary to ascertain just how ‘fat’ the management of Wellington City’s Council actually is but cutting all the $200,000+ plus roles into 2 distinct jobs with 100,000 dollar annual salaries i would suggest would save the Council a reasonable pile of coin,

          Of course such a template applied to the ‘bloated’ uckland Cit Council would result in millions saved, not only would Council direct employees be able to be afforded the ‘Living Wage’ but this could then be extended to contracted council workers…

        • RedBaronCV 4.1.3.2
          12 December 2013 at 10:36 pm

          The second part of this reform should be setting the maximum future salary cap at say $150000 or 6 times the minimum wage. No new hires can be paid more than this and current hires are wound back at x% per annum if the contract allows. Only exceptions to the cap are for exceptional technical requirements not general management hires sen tot the council on a case by case basis.. That’ll fix the budget.

      • RedBaronCV 4.1.4
        12 December 2013 at 10:30 pm

        So why shouldn’t childless people, young people and students get an increase? Last time I looked they were people too and voting members of society. I don’t see why they have to be paid SFA.

    • Rosie 4.2
      12 December 2013 at 9:40 am

      Yes, well done to the council!! It’s been on the cards for a bit now and was looking positive so it’s excellent that the vote followed through for the workers.

      The woman (surname Bleakley?) from the Wellington Chamber of Commerce, last night on 3news came up with the silliest response. This isn’t a quote but it was something along the lines of “now they won’t get working for families or any other government subsidies” What? So, er, you right wing types actually want the government, via the taxpayer funding under paid workers – I thought you hated people getting any kind of assistance?! Oh wait, you want low wages and no assistance

      • idlegus 4.2.1
        12 December 2013 at 3:53 pm

        i heard phil oreilly ceo of ‘business nz’ say that on the radio, justifying low pay rates in nz for workers because the govt tops anyone up, & i thought ‘wtf? i thought you guys hated govt assistance.’

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 4.2.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 3:58 pm

          @Idlegus

          +1 yeah well said, clearly pointing out the two-faced illogic that our system is running on.

    • alwyn 4.3
      12 December 2013 at 9:50 am

      I think that the Council should extend this idea to the people who actually have to pay for it.
      Every ratepayer who has an income that is less than the “Living wage” should be exempt from rates.
      Why should people living on the pension, which is much, much less than the “Living wage” have to pay more in rates so that some of the councillors can get the warm fuzzies by handing out other people’s money?

      Another thing that the Council should be required to explain is exactly who received the $20,000 worth of presents dished out instead of Christmas decorations for the city. Did any of the dosh go to friends or relatives of Councillors or Council staff? Who might have been told about this ahead of time? Will the Council publish a list of the recipients?

      • dv 4.3.1
        12 December 2013 at 9:56 am

        >>Every ratepayer who has an income that is less than the “Living wage” should be exempt from rates.

        Already happens with a rebate if on community services card.

        • alwyn 4.3.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 11:40 am

          Every person, employed by the Council is to get a minimum rate of $18.40 /hour. At 2,000 hours per year that is $36,800/year n’est ce pas?
          A single person living alone, as a very large number do, is only entitled to a community services card if their income is less than $26,554/year. Thus no rates relief for someone on more than $10,000/year LESS than the “living wage”. Not much help is it?

          • bad12 4.3.1.1.1
            12 December 2013 at 3:16 pm

            What is this shit Alwyn, deliberate lies or simply a stupid mistake on your part, people with community service cards which as far as i know includes pensioners can and do apply for rates relief and are granted such…

            • alwyn 4.3.1.1.1.1
              12 December 2013 at 4:00 pm

              Read what I said for God’s sake.
              We are being told that the $18.40/hr, or as I work it out $36,800/year is the minimum anyone can live on.
              I am suggesting that you shouldn’t have to pay rates if you get less than that as you presumably don’t have enough to live on.
              DV said you can get rates relief if you have a community services card., which is true.
              However, and which bit of this did you not understand and which do you think is a “deliberate lie or a stupid mistake”. I pointed out that the MAXIMUM income to get a CSC is $26,554/year. For your presumably inumerate mind that is much LESS than the supposed “Living wage”. You may also note that at no point did I nominate that pensioners couldn’t get the card. I am merely pointing out that its availability goes long before reaching the level of the “Living wage”

      • Rosie 4.3.2
        12 December 2013 at 10:22 am

        Alwyn, read bad12’s comment at 4.1.1 above. Wgtnonians will not be paying more in rates.

        It’s not so much about warm fuzzies, more about the practicalities of life for their workers.

      • Watching 4.3.3
        12 December 2013 at 10:31 am

        Every ratepayer who has an income that is less than the “Living wage” should be exempt from rates.
        Why should people living on the pension …… have to pay more in rates someone

        alwyn, do you really know how rates work. Do you own a house & pay rates? If you are on a low income or pension, & pay rates, you need advice today.

        DV has mentioned the rebates on the community card which I am unsure of the details he refer to. But since 1973 there has been the The Rates Rebate Act 1973 which covers a number of Labour and Nats government. How its work (I think) is that the rates rebate given by the council under this scheme to low incomes earner/pensioners etc is recovered from the government so not to impact on the council’s budget.

        Go to the WCC or Internal Affairs site rather than just guessing what happens. It just devalues your comment.

        • McFlock 4.3.3.1
          12 December 2013 at 10:53 am

          Pity. Slipped under the tory radar for so long, now they know it exists they will cut it…

        • alwyn 4.3.3.2
          12 December 2013 at 11:51 am

          The cutoff for that scheme, without dependents is $23,870/year. The rates rebate amount is up to $595.
          $23,870/year is a lot less than the “Living wage isn’t it? And yes I did know about it and wasn’t just guessing as you appear to be doing.

          • Te Reo Putake 4.3.3.2.1
            12 December 2013 at 12:05 pm

            You knew about it, but didn’t mention it till it was pointed out. Yeah, that sounds 100% dinkum. 🙄

            • alwyn 4.3.3.2.1.1
              12 December 2013 at 12:37 pm

              Do you really want me to always anticipate every wrong thing that people might bring up and explain it in the original comment?I would have to post fifty page comments then.
              Yes I did know about it. The reason I knew was that I had to see whether my mother qualified for it and then later whether another of my family was covered.
              So, in spite of your disbelief, I did know about it and I knew the cutoff was well below the “Living wage”.
              I did look it up to get the exact current rate but I did know it wasn’t very much.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.3.4
        12 December 2013 at 10:58 am

        Why should people living on the pension, which is much, much less than the “Living wage” have to pay more in rates so that some of the councillors can get the warm fuzzies by handing out other people’s money?

        I got a better question:
        Why is it that some people think that they can get labour for less than it costs to supply it?

        Interestingly enough, seemingly all these people who believe this vote for either National or Act and whinge about paying rates especially when it comes to paying people for their labour.

        • KJT 4.3.4.1
          12 December 2013 at 11:25 am

          And claim they believe in, the “free market”.

        • alwyn 4.3.4.2
          12 December 2013 at 12:03 pm

          I really don’t know how you can define what is meant by “get labour for less than it costs to supply it”. What on earth is “the cost of supplying labour”? I have no trouble with a concept like the value of the output of labour. I have no trouble with the concept of the cost of living a decent life.
          However the idea that some single rate, which is what the “Living wage” is supposed to be, is in some way “the cost of supplying labour” doesn’t make any sense.
          I much prefer to focus on two different things.
          The first is what does a worker produce and what therefore is the value of that work and what they should be paid.
          The second is what does it cost that person, and any dependents they have, to live at an acceptable standard of living. If this second figure is less than the first it should be made up by a benefit system which is what we currently have. WFF etc is the way to look after that.

          • KJT 4.3.4.2.1
            12 December 2013 at 12:10 pm

            Why should we subsidise businesses who cannot pay the costs of the resources they use, especially workers?

            If they cannot pay the full costs of the labour they use then they are free loaders on the businesses and tax payers who do.

            That is not even good capitalism.

            • Rosie 4.3.4.2.1.1
              12 December 2013 at 12:27 pm

              Exactly KJT. That’s why that comment from thingo Bleakly from the Wellington Chamber of Commerce last night was so nuts.

            • alwyn 4.3.4.2.1.2
              12 December 2013 at 12:49 pm

              But what do you mean by “The full costs of the labour they use”?
              If by that you mean what it costs for that person to live a decent life it must vary with that person’s circumstances. For example the income required by a single person living with their parents is obviously a lot less than that for a man with spouse and 10 kids.
              I remember some years ago that the Government, and I don’t know whether it was a Labour or a National one, said that intellectually handicapped people in sheltered workshops had to be paid the full minimum wage. The mother of one such man was interviewed in the paper. She was appalled because, as she said, her son’s work was only worth a couple of dollars an hour. If the workshop had to pay him the minimum wage they couldn’t afford him. He was apparently proud that he could go out to work and earn something and it gave him something to do and a place to get out of his home. Now he was going to be stuck there.
              That is an extreme case I know but it is a real example of the sort of person, and business, you appear to regard as a free-loader

              • Draco T Bastard …
                12 December 2013 at 2:34 pm

                ut what do you mean by “The full costs of the labour they use”?

                Interesting question since you seem to know exactly what it means: The second is what does it cost that person, and any dependents they have, to live at an acceptable standard of living.

                Personally, I prefer a Universal Income but that will require massive increases in taxes. IMO, we would most likely will be seeing the return of the 66% bracket to support that. Other rebalancing would also be needed such as dropping CEO salaries from the million dollar range to something far more realistic – say about $100k.

                The living standard is either supported by directly by the business or indirectly through subsidies and the subsidies are paid for through taxes. The problem is that the RWNJs will immediately say that taxes have to be cut showing their propensity for wanting something but not wanting pay for it.

                • alwyn …
                  12 December 2013 at 3:04 pm

                  Good luck getting that through any parliament, at least the limit of $100k. If they tried to do that I would think that MPs would have to have it as an upper limit as well which would halve their incomes. As they say, ever seen a turkey vote for an early christmas.
                  Interestingly the bete-noires of the left, Milton Friedman and Richard Nixon, were both exponents of the Universal Income proposal.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    12 December 2013 at 3:35 pm

                    Good luck getting that through any parliament,

                    And you’ve immediately proved my point.

                    If they tried to do that I would think that MPs would have to have it as an upper limit as well which would halve their incomes. As they say, ever seen a turkey vote for an early christmas.

                    How much we pay our servants should be up to us, not the parliamentarians or even some supposedly independent bunch.

                    Interestingly the bete-noires of the left, Milton Friedman and Richard Nixon, were both exponents of the Universal Income proposal.

                    So?

                    • alwyn …
                      12 December 2013 at 7:16 pm

                      Yes to bits 1 and 2.
                      When I was much younger MPs were paid a great deal less generously. I understand that an MPs salary was about equivalent to a head of department level secondary school teacher. Now it is about three times that figure.
                      I just threw the comment about MF and RN as an aside when you said you approved of the Universal Income idea.
                      I thought you might have been interested, if you didn’t already know it, that approval of the idea goes right across the political spectrum

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      12 December 2013 at 10:10 pm

                      When I was much younger MPs were paid a great deal less generously.

                      They were but the increase came in with the neo-liberal policy settings back in the 1980s IIRC. It was argued that they should be paid similar rates to what was in the private sector. Of course, back then even the private sector didn’t pay all that well and so what we got was what the private sector was paying in places like the US and the UK.

                      AFAIK, only The Alliance has policy that takes MPs salaries back to what they were and they apply it to all MPs. Being a minister or prime minister doesn’t get you any more.

                      I thought you might have been interested, if you didn’t already know it, that approval of the idea goes right across the political spectrum

                      I knew about it I also know that they don’t support my idea of an UI. Their versions tend to be significantly less than what I want because they think that tax should be set at 25% to 30% rather than set to what’s needed. In other words, it won’t be any better than the present UB. I believe it should be high enough to supply enough for people to be entrepreneurial with it.

                      IIRC, Roger Douglass’s version of it was so cumbersome as to be nearly unworkable. He really doesn’t seem to understand the concept of Universal.

          • karol 4.3.4.2.2
            12 December 2013 at 12:20 pm

            Pensioners, who pay rates, would most likely be living mortgage free – own their property outright. So how do you compare a “living wage” for a person who doesn’t own a home, and is most likely paying rent at market prices, with the income of a property owning pensioner?

            • alwyn 4.3.4.2.2.1
              12 December 2013 at 12:56 pm

              Why don’t you expand your comment to what it really means karol.
              How can you have a single “Living wage” that is applied to everyone, whether it is a single person living with his parents or a couple with 6 children, when their circumstances are entirely different. The problem with the “Living wage” is that it doesn’t recognise that.
              You are making my point for me. Pay the wage that the person is worth and worry about additional income requirements via a targeted benefit system.

              • karol …
                12 December 2013 at 12:58 pm

                A “living wage” applies to people in the labour force. This doesn’t apply to retirees.

                • The Pink Postman …
                  12 December 2013 at 4:26 pm

                  I agree Karol .I would think that there is a large percentage of elderly people who like me managed to buy our modest home only because of the “State Advance Loan Scheme.I certainly hope that the next Labour Government will bring in similar scheme in for our young people. However what does make some rates expensive for people living on the pension only is the valuation of the building. So what happens is that some rich ‘P’ builds a flash house near the workers modest home and the value goes up and consequently the rates rise.
                  What I believe ,is that if someone has paid rates on the same house in the same area then there comes a time when that person is declared rate free .For example I have paid high rates on my home that is modest but in a very desirable area for nearly 50 years with no increase in the service .in fact less and less over the years. Have I not paid enough?

          • bad12 4.3.4.2.3
            12 December 2013 at 3:22 pm

            Have you not heard of the cost of living Alwyn, have you not noticed that the slaves today are not kept in a compound and fed by the slave masters and must manage their existence upon the wages given…

      • karol 4.3.5
        12 December 2013 at 11:53 am

        As rate payers are property owners, how many would be earning less than a living wage?

        • alwyn 4.3.5.1
          12 December 2013 at 12:23 pm

          There are, I am sure, a lot of single pensioners (probably widows or widowers) for whom nearly all their income is National superannuation. A lot of them do own their homes.
          It it a bit out of date but I am aware of a Retirement Commission study in 2008 that found, for people over 65, that 74.3% of them had New Zealand Superannuation as their main form of income and that, on average it was 83.1% of their income.
          That is a very large number of people.
          http://www.cflri.org.nz/sites/default/files/docs/RI-Review-BP-Retirement-Income-History-2008.pdf
          The table is on page 25. I doubt that the numbers have changed that much since then.

          • karol 4.3.5.1.1
            12 December 2013 at 12:51 pm

            Thank-you. But the pages 23+ show the over 65s have the least problems with income over all age groups.

            The 2004 Survey of Living Standards undertaken by the Ministry of Social Development showed that in that year the age group 65-plus was the least likely age group to be experiencing any form of economic hardship.
            [..]
            The favourable living standards situation position of those aged 65-plus was not a result of particularly high average cash incomes. In fact both the 2003-04 and 2006-07 Household Economic Surveys showed that most older people were in the lower middle income deciles. A little more than 20 per cent of older households had above average incomes.
            […]
            The low levels of hardship experienced by older people despite most having only modest cash incomes also reflected a range of other factors which do not show up in cash income statistics.

            • The 65-plus age group living in households were mainly homeowners with their mortgage paid off. Consequently, housing costs for most of the age group were low.
            • Very few still had to support dependent children.
            • The fully retired group no longer had work-related expenses.
            • Most had some cash savings or investment assets, and few had significant debts

            The decile stats for income show that less than 7% of pensioners are in the bottom two deciles re-percentage share of incomes. And my guess would be those would be the ones living in rental accommodation.

            And the amounts of the elderly who are renting is increasing.

            • alwyn 4.3.5.1.1.1
              12 December 2013 at 1:46 pm

              Yes, that is true.
              In my opinion a retired married couple, who own their home without a mortgage, and who are in good health and able to do such things a the gardening,have as good a standard of living from New Zealand Super as does a couple with twice the income and 1 or 2 children who is trying to buy a home. For many indeed they “have never had it so good” in Harold MacMillan’s immortal words. Saying so doesn’t make me popular with retired people in that situation though I must add.
              The point is however that the required income differs enormously with one’s circumstances. Saying that we should pay everyone a “Living wage” based on circumstances that apparently apply to only 6% of the population doesn’t make any sense. Let us pay people what they are worth in the job and if there is an income shortfall, which will vary with their cicumstances, make it up with targeted benefits.
              In terms of your comment above that “The living wage applies to those in the workforce” I would have to say. Why does it therefore have to be worked out, not on what it costs to work, but on what it costs a couple with two children to support to get by? That, except for such costs as business apparel, travel costs to work and so on is the same whether a person is working or not. That is catered for by the in work tax rebate, or whatever it is called, that people who are actually working get. If we only pay the “Living wage” to those in the workforce is it not only reasonable to pay this rebate to those who work and say that people who want to extend it to beneficiaries are wrong?
              The different income depending on circumstances is covered by WFF and so on. You appear to be quite accepting that Retired people should get less than the “Working wage”. Why are you not happy that people who don’t have any particular costs, 20 year old living at their parents home say, should also get less than the “Working wage”, and that so should anybody else whose work isn’t actually worth that much and that their additional costs be provided by targetted benefits?

              I suppose a summary of my views is that if the idea of the “Living wage” makes sense so does a rates rebate to anyone on less than that figure. If the “Living wage” idea is crazy then the rates question can also be reconsidered.

              • Rogue Trooper …
                12 December 2013 at 2:29 pm

                a home that (unless property speculation was their game) has been paid for more than once to the bank, insured, rated and upkept.

            • Rogue Trooper 4.3.5.1.1.2
              12 December 2013 at 2:19 pm

              ahh, the cost of “work-related” expenses;
              -generally, the ownership and maintenance of a vehicle, or PT costs
              -meal/s provision
              -attire
              -certification, registrations if required
              -child-care
              -time management that prioritises work attendance before family / relationships (yes, those that are employed are doing more).
              -indemnities if required
              -and just an observation, the addictions acquired to facilitate performance; caffeine, nicotine, analgesics
              -professional support fees.

              Seems to be a central rort to the entire “work will set you free” agenda; People are fortunate if they can retire with a mortgage-free home as a minimum to show for a life ‘down mill’.

              • alwyn …
                12 December 2013 at 3:00 pm

                Yeah, that’s about right. although I don’t know what price you could put on that “Time Management” bit.
                It is the fact that these costs exist that make me favour the tax rebate ( and I don’t know exactly how it works) for people who are actually working. It shouldn’t apply to beneficiaries because they don’t have these costs
                I sometimes think that we should have a deduction of, say $2 for each hour you worked, from your taxable income. That would reflect the cost of having a job. Something like that anyway although I don’t no what the rate should be or how you could operate it.

                • karol …
                  12 December 2013 at 3:59 pm

                  And the working renters who service property owners’ rate paying, through having some of it incorporated in their rents?

                  • alwyn …
                    12 December 2013 at 7:19 pm

                    There is some sort of rental supplement available I believe, if your income is low enough. I am in favour of those sorts of benefits rather than lumbering an ill-targetted “Living wage” on employers.

  5. phillip ure 5
    12 December 2013 at 8:43 am

    things i don’t feel i needed to know:..an occaisonal-series..

    ..the tvone aged-news-reader/in-house reactionary peter williams..

    ..wears woolen underpants..

    ..and i just know..that whenever he pops up on screen again/in the future..

    ..that i will be thinking:..’he wears wollen underpants’..

    ..how about you..?

    ..will you think that now..?

    ..phillip ure..

    • NZ Femme 5.1
      12 December 2013 at 8:59 am

      I initially got a visual in my head of big ol saggy tighty whiteys except scratchier. But then I googled merino undies…

      http://www.minus33.com/catalog/acadian-men-s-lightweight-boxer-brief/702AB

      Not so bad really!

    • greywarbler 5.2
      12 December 2013 at 9:14 am

      phillip u
      Are they made by Icebreaker, merino? Next thing there will be a mention that yes they are merino by Icebreaker as so many viewers have asked this question. Moi! And I’m not a viewer
      by the way. Your anecdote is one of the reasons.

      Incidentally Icebreaker is a major NZ brand. I think made in China. Capiche.

      • phillip ure 5.2.1
        12 December 2013 at 9:27 am

        @ greywarbler..

        ..we were also told he pays $50 a pair for them..

        ..and only has to change them once a week..

        ..whoar..!..eh..?..

        (other/unanswered questions surge into/take over the mind:..does he sleep in them..?..or does he retrieve them from the floor each morning..?..)

        ..go on..!..mix up those images..!..i dare you..!

        ..and..see what gems/insights/nuggets-of-knowledge you are missing by ‘not being a viewer’…eh..?

        ..i’ll betcha you didn’t even know that one of the reasons to watch that bilge-effluent – is ‘cos the co-compere rawdon christie is nz’s ron burgandy…

        ..and he often has burgandy-moments..which are a both a delight and a hoot..

        ..this week he has been treating us/viewers by reading (adopting proper tones of solemnity/serious/po-face..)

        ..from nelson mandelas’ autobiography..

        ..they were brilliant ron-moments..

        ..then finishing..staring for a moment doe-eyed down the lens..

        ..and then chirping:..’and coming up next!..peter williams..and his wollen underpants..!’..

        ..ya hafta laff..!..eh..?

        ..sobbing uses up far too many tissues..

        ..phillip ure..

        • greywarbler 5.2.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 9:39 am

          phillip u
          Leave Morrisey to monitor the media. I feel he has thicker skin than you. Your settings are finer and more sensitive! Don’t watch, please – you’ll end up getting the speed wobbles and spin off into a shrinking vortex.

          And I think not washing your knickers for a week is bound to be unsanitary. I think this must affect our international reputation for hygiene standards. Take him off the air, and open the windows to refresh.

          And reading Mandela’s book by a jonolist. Brings out the now Pavlovian reaction in me about the gorilla who can read Nietzsche but can’t understand it.

          • phillip ure 5.2.1.1.1
            12 December 2013 at 9:50 am

            do the fifty-buck-wear-for-a-week wollen-grunds suck all the grot away..?

            ..to an inner-chamber..?..(the science/physics of it all puzzles me..)

            ..does that inner-grot-chamber get a bit lumpy by the end of the week..?..

            ..can the casual observer note that the wearer must be at about day six..?..do they shift uncomfortably in their seats..?

            ..so many questions..

            ..that you don’t want to know the answers to..

            ..phillip ure..

        • NZ Femme 5.2.1.2
          12 December 2013 at 9:43 am

          “…..and only has to change them once a week..” Ewwww. That’s just….nasty. 🙁

    • Bearded Git 5.3
      12 December 2013 at 9:29 am

      Excuse me I’m eating my breakfast here

  6. Te Reo Putake 6
    12 December 2013 at 8:58 am

    Reasons why I love football No 94: Rupert Murdoch’s favourite wank mag gets a serve from Cheltenham Town Ladies FC.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/dec/11/page-3-womensfootball

  7. Arfamo 7
    12 December 2013 at 9:00 am

    It’s almost unbelievable, this. Isn’t it? It’s no joke for those who are deaf, but frankly I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/9507647/Hunt-is-on-for-fake-Mandela-signer

    • greywarbler 7.1
      12 December 2013 at 12:43 pm

      Weren’t there some Spanish athletes who faked disabilities to get to the World Games for disabled people? It’s all a big joke to those with shallow minds. It’s those psychopaths again.

      …social predators who charm, manipulate and ruthlessly plow their way through life … Completely lacking in conscience and feeling for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret.

    • Morrissey 7.2
      12 December 2013 at 1:56 pm

      A gentleman named LARRY CURLY said it perfectly…

      Yes the secret service was too busy shagging tail to check out this guy! They had their crack detail just off their assignment guarding Obama in Colombia!

      Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/deaf-interpreter-nelson-mandela-memorial-fake-officials-article-1.1544251#ixzz2nDYMI0QM

  8. aerobubble 8
    12 December 2013 at 9:52 am

    Its fraud. Worse, treason. The guy unfortunately sums up for me why so much of Africa is corrupt. Individuals who ignore their common interest, due to decades of neo-liberal press, and take with impunity. I mean look at Russia, any sensible nation uses its leadership churn to evolve and adapt to the demands on it as a nation. Its not just Africa that is corrupted, thirty years of stupid.

  9. Rosie 9
    12 December 2013 at 10:04 am

    Folks, can I ask a question of you? Can anyone suggest how to go about making a complaint to the Health and Disability Commission and whether I’d be within my rights to do so. Or should I take my concerns to Citizen’s Advice Bureau first?

    I’ll try to be brief

    Exactly two years ago to the day I had an injury on my left foot. Went to physio. Unsuccessful treatments for two months. Referred to a sports medicine Dr who was more interested in the AB’s than my foot (although he isn’t my problem) He then referred me to a surgeon who then announced that no xray, ultrasound or MRI showed any bone damage so nothing much we can do and don’t know what’s wrong. Advice, just get ultrasound guided steroids injected into the area of pain every so often. They have been about 20% effective. Requested my GP refer me to a pain specialist last month. Have seen the pain specialist who gave me a diagnosis (nothing to do with bone, but to do with nerve damage) Completely different treatment planned. In the meantime I’ve had two years of pain, limited mobility and loss of enjoyment of doing things like going for walks.

    Is there any point in raising this issue with the H&D Commission?. My main issue is that the medical practitioners gave up, didn’t refer me further and I have have missed out on a diagnosis and appropriate treatment for two years

    (Sorry, TS isn’t an agony column, and that wasn’t brief – I do know however there are some smart minds here, some of who may be familiar with advocacy in regard to medical matters.

    • greywarbler 9.1
      12 December 2013 at 10:23 am

      Rosie
      Your anecdote is useful to people interested in our help systems such as health, which we imagine are functioning well with all the money that goes into them. Apart from being concerned about you, it gives a view into the workings of the health of the administration. Which can develop various faults, viruses, blockage and degeneration. So a certain amount of feedback from citizens is very healthy. And hopefully, I think there will be someone Who Knows.

    • just saying 9.2
      12 December 2013 at 10:25 am

      Hi Rosie,
      I’ve had some experience with H&D complaints.
      I think this one would go nowhere. Sorry.
      I’m assuming ACC was involved? Maybe request your records, though you may be distressed to find perjorative inferences. I hope you don’t. A complaint with ACC would also be unlikely to go anywhere, unless you find active interference from non-medical personnel. Even then, I believe a letter of apology is the best you could expect, though in serious cases, ACC has been known to make ex-gratia payments.
      Hope this helps, and I hope you are finally finding some relief – chronic pain is so debilitating and uses up so many spoons!

      • Rosie 9.2.1
        12 December 2013 at 10:43 am

        Thank you both Warbly (sorry chronic bad habit of nicknaming folks, tell me if its annoying) and just saying.

        Yes ACC has been involved at every point so far. However, I’ve yet to receive a letter of acceptance re the last appointment which was for the pain specialist – that would be costing $275 if I had to pay. (I don’t have $275)

        To be honest the MOST I expect would be a letter of apology. What I would like to see is the previous practitioners involved be informed of the correct diagnosis and treatment and to know that they have caused a major inconvenience to their patient by giving up and not referring on

        Thanks again 🙂

        • greywarbler 9.2.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 12:47 pm

          Rosie
          You can call me what suits but as my Gran used to say – Don’t call me Late for Dinner.

        • weka 9.2.1.2
          12 December 2013 at 11:39 pm

          “To be honest the MOST I expect would be a letter of apology. What I would like to see is the previous practitioners involved be informed of the correct diagnosis and treatment and to know that they have caused a major inconvenience to their patient by giving up and not referring on”

          Actually I think this sounds feasible. The Commissioner won’t get involved, but you can get support from the HDC advocates in a kind of mediation process. You can use the HD Act code of rights, to back up what you say to the practitioners. However you need to be aware that you may not get an apology, or may get a Clayton’s apology. Also even with an apology and a result in terms of previous practitioners being notified of the problem, you may still not feel satisfied. Much of that depends on how you approach the thing, and the integrity of the practioners.

          Might be worth talking it through with an advocate to see what the options are.

          • Rosie 9.2.1.2.1
            13 December 2013 at 9:17 am

            Thank you weka. What you’ve said makes sense to me. I now have a copy of the H & D Code for service. A quick glance would indicate failure on the practitioners behalf. (section 10, right to complain) You’re right, I think seeking an advocate is wise

            As it happens, I also have a new injury on the other foot that I couldn’t seek help for because I couldn’t afford the part payment that ACC no longer funds and subsequently have worsened the situation by not getting it seen to immediately. Secondly, that was an incorrect diagnosis and on top of the wait to get it seen to, the exercises I was given has damaged the achilles more. My sense of anger and distrust has just compounded! And this isn’t even the first time it’s happened. A prolapsed disc was incorrectly diagnosed for months back in 2007!!!

            I’m not alone in receiving improper treatments and incorrect diagnoses, you hear the stories all the time. There are 2 cases in mind at this point in time, a one a family member, one a friend who have more cause than me to complain. One was botched surgery and the other was incorrect treatment that lead to permanent damage that now requires surgery.

            Thanks again for your advice – that’s really helpful 🙂

            • weka 9.2.1.2.1.1
              13 December 2013 at 9:17 pm

              I hear these stories all the time too Rosie, and have some of my own. Take some time to get a good strategy together, and make sure that in each step of the process you are not being disempowered and feel ok about what you are doing. Good luck! and let us know how you get on.

  10. Tiger Mountain 10
    12 December 2013 at 10:19 am

    From the “No need for ordinary folk to be paranoid”–yeah right– file:
    Three things that make tracking you by the authorities easier, obvious you think?
    • using and carrying a smart phone
    • operating a motor vehicle
    • regularly using plastic cards/online transactions

    Thanks to No Right Turn blog for the link below which shows what the NSA is chillingly capable of using data mining and real time locating.
    https://www.aclu.org/meet-jack-or-what-government-could-do-all-location-data

  11. aerobubble 11
    12 December 2013 at 10:34 am

    So when copper prices rebound and the NZ$ collapses, Chrous stocks will soar?

  13. Rogue Trooper 13
    12 December 2013 at 10:59 am

    hijra acknowledged- gays to gaol, along with the bestial
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11170973

  14. Rogue Trooper 14
    12 December 2013 at 11:05 am

    “Now squeal like a ‘roo Jed “
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11171359
    (this is tragic, and not for queasy tummies).

    • greywarbler 14.1
      12 December 2013 at 1:06 pm

      A misture of the Pitcarin Island syndrome, along with family culture, and deprivation. Probably happening in NZ now or will become noticeable if we go on as we are.

      • Rogue Trooper 14.1.1
        12 December 2013 at 2:08 pm

        Nope, it’s going on (see it out my window); limited opportunities and folk turn inwards.

  15. Morrissey 15
    12 December 2013 at 11:22 am

    The John Banks Trophy for DUM QUOTE OF THE WEEK

    Award No. 5: JOHN BANKS
    (for week ending 14/12/2013)

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “I’m not buckled, I’m not bent—”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    —-Epsom M.P. John Banks (ACT), who will stand trial for electoral fraud next year, speaking in Parliament yesterday, Wednesday 11 December 2013. At this point, Banks was unable to proceed for some time, due to the House being filled with uproarious gales of scornful laughter, hoots of derision, and slow hand-clapping. No laughter from his National Support Party comrades, however; they just turned ashen with mortification and embarrassment.

    Check out these other Dum Quotes and relive the inanity!….
    No. 4 Steve Hansen: “The French definitely turned up to play.”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-23062013/#comment-652486
    No. 3 Gosman: “At least the Creationist is logically consistent.”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02092012/#comment-516226
    No. 2 Monique Watson: “Obama has an investigation into it.”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-25082012/#comment-512970
    No. 1 Te Reo Putake: “What is so special about Assange that Sweden should change its laws for him?”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18082012/#comment-509480

    • Te Reo Putake 15.1
      12 December 2013 at 11:51 am

      No 1 still stands the test of time! I’m told that surprise sex’s Julian Assange has lost all his hair, lives on raw fish and mutters ‘the precious, the precious’ to himself in his dank, sunless underground lair. But that may just be another dum (sic) quote.

      • Morrissey 15.1.1
        12 December 2013 at 12:04 pm

        It is another dum quote, my friend. You’re repeating the denigrating portrait of him that’s peddled in that disastrous government-approved hatchet job that “starred” Benedict Blunderpatch. I note that it’s already tanked at the box office: Americans may be bombarded with black propaganda daily, but only an ideologically motivated minority is buying into it.

        One thing we can be sure of: this dog is one that not only Blunderpatch but none of the other principals suckered into appearing in it will ever boast about.

        • Te Reo Putake 15.1.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 12:10 pm

          Well, it may be a crap film, but I suspect the reason it tanked is the subject matter. Nobody gives a flying one about Assange anymore and Snowden is far sexier these days (I mean that in a media friendly, safe, non rapey way).

          • Lanthanide 15.1.1.1.1
            12 December 2013 at 1:20 pm

            Snowden’s better looking, too.

          • Morrissey 15.1.1.1.2
            12 December 2013 at 2:06 pm

            Well, it may be a crap film,
            Good. One honest statement to start off your post. Sadly, it’s all downhill from there…

            …. but I suspect the reason it tanked is the subject matter.
            You don’t suspect that at all. You know as well as I do that the American people, who are NOT as docile as Fox News, Hollywood and the White House assume they are, don’t like fiction posing as fact. And they can sniff out a government harassment campaign perfectly well.

            Nobody gives a flying one about Assange anymore….
            Another lie. If nobody “gives a flying one” about the world’s most celebrated dissident, why is one rogue state, plus a few vassals, hounding him?

            …. and Snowden is far sexier these days (I mean that in a media friendly, safe,
            You’ve even bought into the White House’s talking point about his “stripper girlfriend”. You are without doubt a Kool Aid drinker standing out above all the other Kool Aid drinkers.

            …non rapey way).
            Good man! You keep telling those lies! First have another swig of Kool Aid, though: it’s a mighty hot day down there in Jonest–, errr, Hurricanes country.

            • Rogue Trooper 15.1.1.1.2.1
              12 December 2013 at 2:10 pm

              the ‘Suedehead’ youtube link Rosie provided is wonderful Morrissey.

            • Te Reo Putake 15.1.1.1.2.2
              12 December 2013 at 2:33 pm

              Well, if you want to come on all Fisky, I should point out that you misapplied ‘honest’ in your first para. I used the word ‘may’ which is not a statement of a definitive position. That’s because I haven’t seen it, but was relying on the reviews of others.

              Point two is incorrect. I genuinely think it tanked because St Julian is of no interest to the cinema going public and he’s damaged goods to those with an interest in politics. Personally, I thought the film was going to be a hagiography of the sainted one, so avoided it for that reason, but I’m pleased to hear from you that it’s more truthful than I suspected.

              Point 3 is incorrect. Nobody is hounding him. He has chosen to jail himself, which is pretty karmic in the circs.

              Point 4 is incorrect. I’ve never heard about the girlfriend ( I assume it’s Snowden you’re talking about, not Assange?). As I said, I meant sexier in the sense that he is currently relevant. Assange is yesterdays news. Did you know he’s been self imprisoned for 3 years as of last week? Didn’t make the papers, because no one cares.

              Point five is probably incorrect too, but as it makes no sense, except to you, I’ll ignore it.

              Every other point you made is 100% correct.

              • Morrissey …
                12 December 2013 at 2:38 pm

                “Nobody is hounding him. He has chosen to jail himself…”

                That is a chilling statement. Your ideological zeal is quite phenomenal. You really missed your place in history: you would have been the perfect Red Guard forty-five years ago.

        • Rogue Trooper 15.1.1.2
          12 December 2013 at 1:00 pm

          no desire to see the film sorry, or the Apple one either. The Facebook one was revealing enough.

          However, Now you see me…

    • phillip ure 15.2
      12 December 2013 at 7:44 pm

      banks has the air of a decaying possum on a country road..

      ..phillip ure..

  16. Arfamo 16
    12 December 2013 at 11:24 am

    All charges against former Pike River Coal chief executive Peter Whittall have been dropped.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9508594/Charges-dropped-against-former-Pike-boss

    “… [Departmental lawyer] Zarifeh said the Department of Labour faced “substantial problems” in its case against Whittall, who has maintained his innocence and had earlier entered not guilty pleas.”

    Shared culpability one of them?

    • Te Reo Putake 16.1
      12 December 2013 at 11:39 am

      Oh, that is so pathetic. On the upside, the next government can always reopen the case or maybe make it the first one taken under the possible corporate manslaughter law change.

      • ianmac 16.1.1
        12 December 2013 at 12:17 pm

        I wonder whose money it was/will be.
        “Mr Whittall has proposed that a voluntary payment be made on behalf of the directors and officers of Pike River Coal Ltd (in receivership) at the time of the explosions to the families of the 29 men who died and the two survivors.

        It means $110,000 will be given to each of the families and survivors – totalling $3.41m.

        Mr Whittall’s lawyer Stuart Grieve QC today said a bank cheque has been given to the court and asked for Judge Jane Farish to make sure the money was available by Christmas.”

        And: “Judge Farish said she heard that the charges would be dropped only two days ago.She told the court that the likelihood of a prosecution in this case was “extremely low” and that it may never have even reached trial, given all of the pre-trial arguments that would have been required. The decision not to prosecute was taken at “a very high level”, she said. ”

        Whose “very high level?”

        • bad12 16.1.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 2:51 pm

          The ‘Sickest’ piece of Justice ever meted out my life-time by the New Zealand Court system, blood money paid in lieu of prosecuting the architect and person more or less with the sole responsibility for the actual construction and running of the Pike River mine…

  18. karol 18
    12 December 2013 at 12:21 pm

    Dotcom was probably spied on after his arrest…. but by whom?

  19. Ake ake ake 19
    12 December 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Coming soon to New Zealand?

    “Infinito Gold is threatening a $1 billion lawsuit against Costa Rica for rejecting a toxic, open-pit gold mine after massive protests from local citizens.”

    Just seen that from SumOfUs:
    http://act.sumofus.org/go/3150?t=1&akid=3110.989881.OoeJ3K

  20. joe90 20
    12 December 2013 at 2:06 pm

    More to ignore.

    Three years of observations by ESA’s CryoSat satellite show that the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is losing over 150 cubic kilometres of ice each year – considerably more than when last surveyed.

    http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/CryoSat/Antarctica_s_ice_loss_on_the_rise

    • joe90 20.1
      12 December 2013 at 3:53 pm

      This too.

      It’s official: East Antarctica is pushing West Antarctica around.

      Now that West Antarctica is losing weight–that is, billions of tons of ice per year–its softer mantle rock is being nudged westward by the harder mantle beneath East Antarctica.

      The discovery comes from researchers led by The Ohio State University, who have recorded GPS measurements that show West Antarctic bedrock is being pushed sideways at rates up to about twelve millimeters–about half an inch–per year. This movement is important for understanding current ice loss on the continent, and predicting future ice loss.

      http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/osu-eai121113.php?

  21. Morrissey 21
    12 December 2013 at 2:23 pm

    Impostor angers many at Madiba funeral
    11 December 2013

    There has been widespread anger after a shameless impostor perpetrated an outrageous display of fakery at the funeral service for Nelson Mandela.

    Comments included: “He was moving his hands around, but there was no meaning”; “What happened at the memorial service is truly a disgraceful thing to see”; “Disgusting”; “Shameful hypocrisy” and “It should not happen at all.”

    Here’s a photo of the fraudster, waving his arm in the air….
    http://cdn1.independent.ie/world-news/article29829821.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/PANews_bfce2d94-f4ec-4d75-b069-6d5218eab9d2_I1.jpg

  22. Pascal's bookie 22
    12 December 2013 at 2:29 pm

    Whaleoil connection to the ninth floor confirmed:

    https://twitter.com/CTrevettNZH/status/410912984722984961

    • mickysavage 22.1
      12 December 2013 at 3:11 pm

      Very interesting. I have heard the name before but this time some pretty senior reporters are all pointing the finger at him.

      What is his role in DPMC and what are his links to Slater’s site?

      EDIT: and the Herald are onto it … http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171491

      And some interesting comments:

      Mr Key’s office said Mr Ede took the photos in a personal capacity.

      A spokeswoman said: “It is our understanding Mr Ede took pictures of the aftermath of the press gallery function and sent them to a blogger. Mr Ede did this off his own bat.”

      She added: “In terms of the function, a number of staff from the Prime Minister’s office attended and enjoyed themselves and we appreciate the media putting on such a good function.”

      Mr Goff said: “It shows that there is underlying network of people who get Whaleoil to do their dirty work for them.

      “And that network goes as high as the Prime Minister’s office.”

      Press gallery chair and Herald deputy political editor Claire Trevett said: “It seems a bizarre thing to do, especially because the photos do not show anything particularly startling about the after-effects of a party of 600 people.

      “It does make me wonder what other contributions Mr Ede might have made, as well as whether this is sanctioned by the Prime Minister in any way.

      • Pascal's bookie 22.1.1
        12 December 2013 at 3:26 pm

        In a personal capacity on his personal iPhone which he pays for himself, no doubt.

        • McFlock 22.1.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 3:43 pm

          Indeed. A PM communications person takes photographs on parliament property and communicates them to a partisan blogger on a weekday morning, but there is a clear delineation between his personal and professional roles /sarc 🙂

      • gobsmacked 22.1.2
        12 December 2013 at 3:30 pm

        It does make me wonder what other contributions Mr Ede might have made

        The “wondering” press gallery. If only there were regular opportunities for the journalists to ask instead of wondering! If only Key and Ede were easily accessible … say, working in the same building as the media? If only they had heard the name ‘Jason Ede’, years ago.

        But oh well, it’s Christmas, we’ll never know. Pass the bottle, John!

        • ghostrider888 22.1.2.1
          12 December 2013 at 3:38 pm

          Christmas Time, downunder- ‘ spin the bottle’. (and even Anne, Amy or Judith, the three prized hens, will become attractive).

        • Pascal's bookie 22.1.2.2
          12 December 2013 at 4:01 pm

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/9509926/PMs-adviser-takes-photos-for-WhaleOil

          laugh.

          Ede, who has not returned a request for comment, had previously been accused of being a source for Whale Oil, but this had never been confirmed.

          A spokeswoman for the Prime Minister’s Office ignored questions about whether it was appropriate for an adviser to the prime minister to be supplying such information to the blog. She confirmed Ede was the photographer.

          “It is our understanding Mr Ede took pictures of the aftermath of the press gallery function and sent them to a blogger,” she said.

          “Mr Ede did this off his own bat.

          “In terms of the function, a number of staff from the Prime Minister’s Office attended and enjoyed themselves and we appreciate the media putting on such a good function.”

          When asked by Fairfax Media in October about Ede’s relationship with Whale Oil, the spokeswoman said Ede was a senior adviser in the National leader’s office. He provided communication advice and support to the prime minister and to National Party MPs, including in the area of social media and other media.

          “Jason works a lot in the area of social media and that includes getting out National’s message to a range of bloggers and other social media sites.”

          Parliamentary press gallery chairwoman Claire Trevett said Ede was seen this morning by two witnesses. He had crouched among the butts taking photos with his phone.

    • Rogue Trooper 22.2
      12 December 2013 at 3:14 pm

      a Toad-in-the-hole in the wall.

    • gobsmacked 22.3
      12 December 2013 at 3:25 pm

      Anyone who doubts the direct link between John Key’s office and WhaleOil really must click on the link Pascal’s Bookie provides.

      Now all we need is for some of the journos in that twitter thread to turn down their free Xmas wine from Key, and start holding him to account instead. Well, I can dream.

    • Arfamo 23.1
      12 December 2013 at 3:10 pm

      Righto. The name is McCully. He bit the hand that feeds him. The owners of the hand bit him back. And they bit Rennie too. In the bum. For much the same reason. And then Rebstock bit McCully and Key and Rennie in the wallet. It’s a jungle out there.

    • Rogue Trooper 23.2
      12 December 2013 at 3:11 pm

      “no definitive evidence” after expending half a mil. MFAT experience contracted out, to consultants; How’s that working out for our biggest markets…oh, wait…

      • Puckish Rogue 23.2.1
        12 December 2013 at 4:14 pm

        “Actions of some MFAT employees in supplying information and personal views directly to Ministers, to the Labour Party Spokesperson on Foreign Affairs and Trade, to officials and former public servants outside MFAT and to the media fuelled the political debate. This directly undermined MFAT’s ability to provide Ministers with robust, unbiased advice once the Secretary had consulted and considered the views of staff at MFAT.”

        “Prior to the change programme, MFAT had been regarded as an agency that could be trusted with government information. This trust, locally and internationally, is critically important given the role that MFAT undertakes on behalf of the Government and all New Zealanders.”

        “The leaks of documents that had been prepared by MFAT staff detrimentally affected MFAT’s reputation as a trustworthy organisation, thereby damaging New Zealand’s interests and the Government’s trust and confidence in MFAT.”

        Well done to the labour party for pulling this off, they managed to get away with damaging NZs reputation for political gain (and got away with it so fair play to them)

        • Arfamo 23.2.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 4:37 pm

          +1. Except McCully did the damage to NZ’s reputation for no gain. The last thing anyone should do is appoint someone who always looks untidy to the position of Minister of Foreign Affairs.

  24. Pascal's bookie 24
    12 December 2013 at 3:44 pm

    And the fuck is with this?:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171475

    Mr Blackman arrived in Auckland at 5.30am on a flight from Heathrow, travelling through San Francisco.

    He declared loose-leaf tea he was carrying he came through Customs and believed it was responsible for the extensive bag search to which he was subjected.

    “He said ‘we’re not worried about the tea’.” The official then returned to going through the bag, pulling out electronic equipment as he did so. “We’re going to have to detain this,” Mr Blackman said he was told. “We’re going to have to send this to a forensic investigator.”

    When Mr Blackman pulled a phone out of his pocket, the official also took that, refusing permission for him to call his parents who were waiting in the arrival lounge.

    Mr Blackman was also told to provide passwords for the equipment. “That is a real invasion of privacy.” One of the phones had no password but required a design to be traced on the screen. The official was unconcerned and said the forensic team would defeat security to access the device.

    Mr Blackman asked why the items were being confiscated and the official refused to say – or to say how long the items would be kept.

  25. greywarbler 25
    12 December 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Has anyone got a comment on an idea I had of having a local peace corps approach. Having people go round the country doing useful things for others for bed and board. Better than sitting at home and being pressured into a gang. See the country and work, and feel positive about life
    sort of thing. Here’s the link –
    http://thestandard.org.nz/what-chance-is-there-of-a-bi-partisan-approach-to-child-poverty/#comment-742776

    Also I thought about what Ian the employer of good work-keen overseas people said about NZ workers in his area being unreliable, and generally lacking in oomph.

    I thought of anomie and put a bit from wikipedia explaining it and how it very likely can explain a lot of the NZ experience, and invite comment on this also.
    http://thestandard.org.nz/what-chance-is-there-of-a-bi-partisan-approach-to-child-poverty/#comment-742752

  26. Arfamo 26
    12 December 2013 at 6:17 pm

    More trubs for Shonkey and the lapdog Rebstock? How much more money are they gonna throw away to continue exposing McCully’s stupidity?

    MFAT leak: ‘Person Y’ hits back

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171532

  27. Paul 27
    12 December 2013 at 7:39 pm

    Trotter writes a good article about the neoliberal dinosaurs in the Labour Party
    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/12/12/a-sort-of-victory-is-labours-old-guard-undermining-cunliffes-lurch-to-the-left/

    “Behind the scenes the situation is, apparently, even worse. In spite of the fact that child poverty seems certain to become a major election issue for 2014, anti-poverty campaigners report extreme difficulty in persuading Labour MPs to embrace the policies required to eliminate it.”

    “The ferocity with which the Old Guard responded to Cunliffe’s argument that Labour needs to undergo a radical ideological reorientation was instructive. It pointed to the presence of a powerful faction within Labour’s caucus that is absolutely determined to prevent the slightest deviation from the core elements of the 1984-1993 neoliberal “revolution”.

    Needs to be a post on this issue.
    How does the left deal with these turncoats?

    • Arfamo 27.1
      12 December 2013 at 7:43 pm

      Reflects comments earlier today by some regulars. A good article indeed.

    • Colonial Viper 27.2
      12 December 2013 at 10:15 pm

      How does the left deal with these turncoats?

      Please be more specific.

      What do you mean by “the left.” Do you mean for instance: the parliamentary left? The political economic left? The Labour Party membership? The socially liberal left?

    • millsy 27.3
      12 December 2013 at 11:06 pm

      It doesnt matter anyway.

      Labour will lose the next election. Unless they pull out an Orewa moment (10th annivesary of “That Speech” coming up..) Cunliffe will struggle to get traction against a confident John Key who only needs to make a minimal effort with the populace to get them to like him. I will expect a full on attack campaign of scaremongering, about 70’s union bosses and anti-car green hippies who want to ruin this country, with Labour stuggling with a wishy-washy centre approach.

      A national party victory, will, of course, have ramifications for the country, especially those that use the rump welfare state (superannuation and health care), as well as vulerable, low paid workers, and those in the welfare system, as we see an escalation of the downward pressure on incomes and living standards as a consequence.

      New Zealand will pretty much be a sweatshop economy by 2020, with workers having to sleep in their cars as wages fail to keep up with rents.

      • McFlock 27.3.1
        12 December 2013 at 11:17 pm

        I think it’ll be a vicious campaign, but the result is far from a done deal for the tories – if anything I reckon that labgrn have a slight advantage even now.

  28. millsy 28
    12 December 2013 at 10:04 pm

    I would like to know what people have against paying council workers higher wages. You know, the people that process building consents, help you when you want to burrow a book from the libaray, put up with people’s abuse when they go and deal with dangerous dogs, ensure the water keeps flowing, keeps the green spaces mowed and the sports feilds ship-shape. They do all the stuff that keeps a city functioning, and they deserve a decent wage for it.

    I actually believe all the kerfuffle about rates is just about rich people having to pay for things that poor people use (like parks, libararies, council housing, etc).

    • Paul 28.1
      12 December 2013 at 10:41 pm

      Sounds correct. Have it all, pay for nothing parasites.

      • millsy 28.1.1
        12 December 2013 at 10:43 pm

        So you want to get rid of libaries too?

        An enemy of our libraries is an enemy of humanity.

        • Arfamo 28.1.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 10:52 pm

          You maybe misinterpreted Paul’s meaning millsy. I think he’s agreeing with you, and saying that the wealthy who moan about rates want to have all the services but not pay for them.