Open mike 14/03/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 14th, 2011 - 83 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

It’s open for discussing topics of interest, making announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

Comment on whatever takes your fancy.

The usual good behaviour rules apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

83 comments on “Open mike 14/03/2011”

  1. joe90 1

    A series of mouse-over before and after pics and the aftermath from The Big Picture…and a man rescued at sea.

  2. Bob Stanforth 2

    So, Goofy says he’s joking about lining looters up against a wall – really? Didnt sound like a joke to me. Anything to say, anyone? Other than NRTurn who has the courage of his convictions to call it, anyone?

    Nah, didnt think so. Pathetic. Without morality, all of you.

    • felix 2.1

      What, apart from all these comments the other day? http://thestandard.org.nz/building-our-future/#comment-306790

      Bother to check ANYTHING before you type, Bob? Nah, didn’t think so.

    • Memo from Crosby Textor

      To all available wingnuts

      Guys we are running into problems.

      The New Zealand population is realising very quickly that the current strategy of giving tax cuts to the very wealthy and crossing our fingers and hoping that somehow economic uplift will happen at the same time is not working. Ordinary Kiwis are concluding that there is absolutely no link between the two, and that by giving Key et al a huge tax cut all that has happened is that the poor receive less and essential Government services are cut.

      So we want you to troll the internet for comments by Goff. Any comment is fine and it does not matter how informal the chat was when it occurred. For instance if he expresses exasperation at looters on Student Radio apply a bit of spin and claim that he is advocating the compulsory shooting of looters, litterers and loafers without trial.

      Keep repeating it for as long as possible. We need to give coverage to the Government so that it can continuing pillaging New Zealand while people's attention is diverted.

      • felix 2.2.1

        Doesn’t really matter what the setting is though mickey, Goff fucked up. What he said was fucking disgusting and he deserves to be called out for it.

        • Luva 2.2.1.1

          Well said felix

          • vto 2.2.1.1.1

            Disgusting to even joke about.

            The police giving looters the bash is also disgusting and I can’t believe that politicians are making jokes about it and turning a blind eye to it.

            Sure, lots of the public are like “yeah, give ’em the bash, bloody deserve it the creeps taking advantage like that.”

            So does that mean that this vigilante action by police can continue post-earthquake or perhps in other parts of NZ??????? After all, the crims looting are doing NO MORE than what they always do, which is take advantage of people. It is simply the sheer number of people that have been affected and the drama of earthquake (fuck, anove aftershock just then. quick and silentish) that seems to allow people to turn a blind eye to this injustice.

            So when we next get burgled I am going to ask the NZ Police and Army if they can give the suspect the bash.

            Key has okayed it by turning a blind eye. Goff has okayed it by his joke. The public has okayed it by the general blind eye. And the police have okayed it by doing it.

            Btw, the feeling in town is that it is the Aussie police bringing their style of policing to town that is causing this… Probably not true but we are using it as the excuse anyway. ha ha. Blame the aussies.

      • Armchair Critic 2.2.2

        A bit of personal responsibility would go down well here, mickey. If Mr Goff had engaged his brain before his mouth then the comments would not be there for wingnuts to repeat endlessly.
        All he needed to do was not talk about shooting looters. How difficult is that? Even I can do it, and I’m just some pseudononymous liberal commenting on a blog, not the leader of the opposition.
        I still want to know why I should vote Labour, and “they aren’t National” is no longer good enough.

    • Well Bob I did. All over the place, including here, Kiwiblog and Public Address. And since you’ve given me an opening to do so, I’d just like to say how gratified I was to see that those on the left can put aside blind ideological loyalty and call someone a twat when they so richly deserve to be (well, with the exception of micky…) whereas the majority on the right can’t even bring themselves to acknowledge Sarah Palin is several rounds short of a full bandolier.

      However, when it comes to another inciter of violence and hatred I’ve taken it upon myself to go considerably further and lay a complaint with the police.

      Meanwhile, you have…?

      • mickysavage 2.3.1

        I believe Rex that my comments can be describe as minimising rather than excusing …

      • vto 2.3.2

        Well done Rex.

        While normally finding Laws a painful boring but harmless twat that column made me think he has a serious screw loose. He should not be near such a platform because he has stepped into the realm of dangerous.

        Keep at it and let us know the outcome.

  3. Tiger Mountain 3

    Rodney confirmed at ACT’s conference that he remains one of the supreme ‘joe hunts’ of the NZ political scene. “Lets go mining, again” has gotta be right up there with his “No maori seats on SuperCity” as a vote grabber.

    • The Voice of Reason 3.1

      They may have lost David Garrett, but the madness remains:

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4761685/Shoot-the-natives-ACT-conference-told

      • Bored 3.1.1

        Serious journalism is not meant to be as funny as this. if it wasnt so sad it would be hilarious.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2


        ACT: The racist party

        Contrary to that report, the suggestion was not met with groans – but laughter [audio; starts at 2:25].

        Hmmm, seems that the MSM has been caught lying to defend and protect a bunch of RWNJs.

    • Pete 3.2

      I’d thought that Act has already lost it, but they seem determined to make sure they’re not found again.

      • Pascal's bookie 3.2.1

        And yet the PM is apparently sttill keen on throwing them a lifeline in Epsom. Which is funny in any number of respects.

        Firstly, the PM rejects Winston because of the ‘games’ involved in being in govt with him. And yet he is quite prepared to not only put up with all sorts of nonsense from ACT but also to game the system in order to see that they survive.

        Secondly, both ACT and National like to say that they are in favour of a rules based market approach. That things should survive on their merits, and yet ACT needs a little preferential help to get them over the surviving line.

        Thirdly, much of John Key’s political persona is based around his image of pragmatic centrism. A large part of this is his rejection of Douglas, the sidelining of Brash’s expensive reports, and the open mockery he directs their way. Why then, if all this is a genuine reflection of what he thinks, would he intrigue to keep a party in parliament knowing that he will ally with them and have to take on some of their ideas?

    • ianmac 3.3

      But wait a minute. Act has a very low poll rating. They just need a lift in support. Get it from mainstream? No. Not from you and not me. But appeal to the racists, pro-mining group, low tax etc and they might just get 2-4% lift and they care not what we think.

      • Pete 3.3.1

        I can only presume they are targetting a specific demographic, it looks like they have given up on 10% aspirations, anything will do if it clings them in. I prefer an idealogical Act rather than this sort of soliciting.

      • Jim Nald 3.3.2

        ACT: spill-over signs of the radicalisation of Nat rats. And mutual cannibalisation.
        *While one leader unveils the Twitch of the Death Nerves at his party conference, an ex-leader exhumes himself and talks of Strange Fruit. (In the meantime, a seriously able candidate has buried his strong chances for leadership.)

        The Nat-ACT alliance looks uglier with Rodney Hide and Don Brash making the call to act up now. It’s a rat-eat-rat coalition. Simon Power: sympathies and sorry to see you go.

        Next show: How can John Key shore up support for ACT? What would he pretend to do?

        *Wikipedia may assist

  4. The Economic Illiteracy Support Group 4

    I see the Nats have been lying through their teeth about the Trans Pacific Partnership (again): http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/03/son-of-acta-meet-the-next-secret-copyright-treaty.ars

    • Bored 4.1

      Pretty bloody scary stuff: how the Courts might proceed on this would be fairly instructive.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.2

      We really need to drop out of the TPPA talks. It won’t good for us.

      • Deadly_NZ 4.2.1

        The NATS don’t care if it’s good for us. As long as it is profitable for them, a free reign to plunder and pillage would suit them just fine. And you can just see Smile and Wave, waving goodbye to the country he bankrupted and sold down the river.

        • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1

          Someone should clue the old fashioned National voting true conservatives onto this. Consternation will abound.

          Further, WTF is Labour’s policy on the TPPA?.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1.1

            Labour has remained remarkably silent on it even though significant evidence has come out to show that we will be worse off if it’s signed. Of course, a lot of that evidence also applies to the FTAs that they negotiated and so they’re probably feeling embarrassed.

  5. just saying 5

    Was at a gardening workshop yesterday, and was surpised to learn that a diet of potatoes and kale grown in cold-winter areas*, covers every food group other than B12. By themselves, they can keep people reasonably healthy for six months.

    You’d need a lot of space to grow enough spuds for that long.

    Pretty much everyone I know is thinking about how to survive catastrophic events. ‘Course people would, but it’s also that deeper set-in unease with the new uncertainties of the global finacial meltdown, increaingly undeniable “peak” problems, and everyday life in ‘the great recession’. People seem rattled in a way I haven’t seen before. Preparing for very gim times ahead.

    Makes people politically unpredictable.

    *apparently kale draws vast nutrients when it gets very cold and gets sweeter at the same time.

    • just saying 5.1

      Damn,
      Sorry mods the above was supposed to be in ‘open-mike’.

      [lprent: is now. ]

    • nzP 5.2

      Growing Kale for the first time this year. As you say, it’s supposed to do everything, in a nutritional sense … even “fight cancer”. So I’m guessing it tastes like shyte, but luckily the wife saved a 1930’s cookbook given her by her grandmother (A Scot) which has a number of interesting recipes that use it. Unfortunately, potatoes generally give me trouble, but will make an exception for Colcannon. Vege gardening’s the perfect balance of effort/reward and doesn’t need to take up all that much time. While a bloke is waiting for his kale and kohlrabi’s, there’s still plenty of time to engage in all manner stupidity if he feels his inner Maggie Barry getting away on him.

      • just saying 5.2.1

        time to engage in all manner stupidity if he feels his inner Maggie Barry getting away on him.

        Getting your groove on with the hats?

        I’m growing for the first time too, and haven’t even tasted it, but apparently the tips are good in salads, and cooked it’s often mixed, funnily enough, with mashed spuds, in Japan.

  6. ianmac 6

    How dumb is this? But Labour leader Phil Goff is already ruling Mr Harawira out as a coalition partner.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10712242

    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      Oh WTF, seriously.

      These big fraking parties trying to corral the voters into voting for them, FFS.

      Mr Harawira said he doubted Mr Goff would hold his resolve if Labour found itself in a position to govern.

      “I absolutely guarantee you that if I form a new party and we have the seats to make a difference, he’ll be ringing me as fast as he possibly can.”

      Although Hone seems to know where it is at.

  7. todd 7

    Fukushima Meltdown Update.

    http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2011/03/fukushima-nuclear-power-plant-update.html

    Officials say radiation may already have been released from the Fukushim 1 Nuclear Reactor incident. Japan’s US envoy on Saturday acknowledged there had been a “partial melt” of a fuel rod at the quake-hit plant.

  8. Bored 8

    Todd, meltdowns are not good news. The map needs questioning, 750 RADs is lethal.

  9. joe90 9

    Half asleep this morning when I posted before work so a repost below, in the correct thread.

    A series of mouse-over before and after pics and the aftermath from The Big Picture…and a man rescued at sea.

    • ianmac 9.1

      Joe. Thanks. Imagine the size of the rebuilding program! I cannot.
      I wonder how buildings coped in the non-tsunami areas?

  10. joe90 10

    Another teahadist arrested for the fire bombing of a planned parenthood clinic.
    Also, a history of violence.

  11. JohnDee 11

    Was down at the bottom (Auckland) of town yesterday and drove around the new events centre which is due to be open about August and thought what the hell is Smile & Wave thinking with “Party Central”
    Then event centre and surrounding wharf are ideal, is already being build and is not going to waste another several million dollars to recreate.
    To me, the Events Centre would be ideal.

  12. vto 12

    I mentioned this in another post..

    Perhaps a game for the Friday afternoon threads is to guess how many people will leave Christchurch for the 20 March date.

    From what I can tell in our circles, probably 60-70% are leaving for a few days. So a starter for ten – Between 20,000 and 50,000 city-wide.

    • Pete 12.1

      That’s sad, all because of a lunar ding-a-ling.

      I know, people will say “why take the chance”. But there’s virtually as much chance of a major shake any other day.

      • vto 12.1.1

        Pete, the “lunar ding-a-ling” as you so dismissively put it, has been followed for years and years and years by one of the more successful farmers I know, and also by one of the better skifield operators I know. They listen to him because he has proved himself to them. Time and again.

        Call it ding-a-ling if you like but you go against reality for many today and against the history of manwomankind in basing much of life around the phases of the moon.

        • Pete 12.1.1.1

          vto – it’s accepted the moon may have an affect on earthquake occurrence – but it is impossible to predict where, when or how big to any useful degree of accuracy. He’s a ding-a-ling becasue he claims credit for “predictions” he thinks he gets right, but most of which he gets wrong.

          There is as much chance of their being a calamity anywhere else in the South Island and much of the North Island on any given day. I guess you could go to Aus, but watch out for snakes, floods and bushfires – if the plane manages to get there (if you got to the airport safely in the first place).

          • nzP 12.1.1.1.1

            If you regularly visit metservice weather forecasting:

            http://metservice.com/towns-cities/auckland

            as I do, you’ll know they’ve been pushing the arrival of five days of rain out for the past month. It’s called a forecast – much like a prediction. Sometimes even up to the minute data has the wind 30 knots too low. Sometimes the wind is 180 degrees out. They have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and are incredibly scientific about it all. People delay trips, plantings, painting, concreting and building projects on this information – any activity you care to mention. False predictions cost time and money to many.

            But lets not call out the obvious baromic ding-a-lings. Lets have a go at guy who doesn’t have anywhere near the financial resource and market influence as Metservice, uses a different method, and who on average, has greater accuracy.

            • Pete 12.1.1.1.1.1

              and who on average, has greater accuracy.

              Anything to back up that statement?

              I regularly visit Metservice (most days and often more than once a day) and find them quite accurate short range, sort of reasonable considering the variables more than a few days away – not if/when it will rain specifically (although often they close to the mark with that too), but general temperature range, likelihood of rain, timing of weather changes. I apply local knowledge and observations to expert data and forecasts.

              I have occasionally checked out Ken Ring’s weather forecasts and found them to be nowhere near accurate, sometimes the opposite of what is happening.

              I have read technical info on earthquakes in New Zealand and have a basic understanding of our situation. I have seen what scientists say about predictions here and it sounds feasible, makes sense.

              I have read quite a bit from Ken Ring’s website and although he uses smatterings of scientific knowledge it is mostly laughably naive nonsense. Sad that he is able to influence other naive people.

            • Pete 12.1.1.1.1.2

              I saw one very fundamental flaw in predicting the weather from the moon cycles – if the moon predicts an anticyclone, where will that be in the world? The whole world is never an anticyclone, it varies a lot in many localities.

              You couldn’t predict a southerly change on a specifc day in a specific location, there is no way the moon could have location accuracy.

              You may be able to predict calmer weather or more volatile weather situations over a wide area, but not what it will at any given time. Day by day weather maps by the moon are nonsensical.

              Ring claims accuracy, eg to help you plan your wedding day. But he is often so vague that it’s hard for him to be wrong except half the time (as per earthquakes).
              Look at his New Year forecast for here:

              Dunedin: doesn’t clear for more than a few days until 15 February – 6 March

              Wow, I think he was right, up until Feb 15. But wrong since then.

            • KJT 12.1.1.1.1.3

              The met service actually has been rather good at what is coming generally.
              Most of the differences can be shown as local effects which do not invalidate the forecast.
              Anyone whose livelihood depends on the weather knows, for example, that 30 knots from the North around Cook Strait means 45 knots WNW at Karori rock. SW rain in Whangarei means rain over the SW of the city and fine at Whangarei heads.

              Rings site is pseudo-scientific nonsense. May as well use Astrology.

          • KJT 12.1.1.1.2

            If the moon did have the amount of effect that Ring claims we would have earthquakes every full moon.

            • nzP 12.1.1.1.2.1

              Third party surveys place his predictions at 85% – 91% and this is what he advertises. He does not offer certainty. No point conversing with those who hold tightly to their ignorance. If you knew anything about Lunar theory method you wouldn’t say “every full moon”. Full moon has little to do with it, in itself. But hey, you must know. I guess mathematics is a pseudo-science to you? Oh well. And it’s ok to apply local observations to metservice forecasts, but not Lunar theory. I see a pattern forming here – moan and gloat. Have fun chatting to yourself.

              • Pete

                Third party surveys place his predictions at 85% – 91% and this is what he advertises.

                It depends on what it is measured against. A google search on his website finds 0 hits on “survey”.

                What about this from Ring:

                So if a forecast says rain for Auckland but it only rains in Huntly, 60 miles away, given the tools available it is as close as one can reasonably get, and should therefore be considered a successful forecast.

                Most weather readings, averages etc are taken at airports. Airports are usually windier, which the planes need to be able to take off with, and then land again safely, and being windier are therefore drier places than hills or nearby towns. Unless your location is at or near the airport the forecast may be at least slightly (and possibly way) out.

                We should not expect too much. As good and effective as any method is, it is our responsibility to also plan for alternative outcomes.

                100% accuracy on the last paragraph. But no accuracy claimed here:

                So, in both the NZ and Aust Almanacs we managed to get the two cyclonic systems for March, although timing slightly out and location of them in reverse a bit. We remind readers that the 2010 almanacs were written two years ago, to comply with publishers’ timetables, and we will not ever be 100% accurate because the method is best suited to describe general trends, so 3-4 day windows is the best we can hope for.

                Doesn’t sound like 85% – 91% to me.

                I guess mathematics is a pseudo-science to you?

                Depends on how it’s applied.

                • aj

                  Go and get one of his almanacs and test his predictions/opinions for yourselves. Daily. Try to be objective as possible. I think you’ll find his predictions are based around the climatology of any given area. Ie any fool could score 75% correct in a part of the country where it rains only one day in four, by scattering rain predictions at random over 90 days through a year.
                  I did this a few years ago, for a year in a place that has rainfall 1 in three days and his predictions were just a touch over 50% right. Worse than random forecasting. And given his qualifiers – complete twaddle. You’d be a complete fool if you relied on his forecasts and put money on the line, like contractors, event organisers, etc do.

      • Deadly_NZ 12.1.2

        And if he is right then you are the Ding A ling!!!!

        • Pete 12.1.2.1

          But he sets himself up to always be right. This time he’s saying a big quake could happen on more than half the days in March, but most likely it won’t.

          That could be likened to me predicting that you might post something sensible on odd days of the month, but most likely you won’t.

  13. lprent 13

    Because we’ve been talking about nuclear reactors today, has everyone looked at the natural fission reactors in Gabon 2 billion years ago. Because of the oxidation of Uranium after the atmosphere got significiant levels of O2, the concentrations of enriched yellowcake started a natural reactor.

  14. Jim Nald 14

    What happens to the price of milk after Elections 2011 ….. , errr, ….. after the end of this year?

    Hoping it will go down? (It’s milk, not a Tui billboard.)

    • ianmac 14.1

      The problem will be left in Labour’s hands Jim. 🙂 Fonterra and Supermarkets will have to make up for lost sales by doubling the price of milk.

  15. I see the religious nuts are out in force ,Their latest rage is that the two earthquakes are a warning from God . where do these awful fanatics come from ?

    • ianmac 15.1

      I believe that some religious signboards in Auckland and Wellington say that “21 May for the World to end.” So not long now folks. Just be patient. Confess now of course before it is too late. Coverting any asses lately?

      • KJT 15.1.1

        The world is ending because priests have disobeyed the commandment to “Go forth and multiply” and follow unnatural perversions, like celibacy!.

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.2

        Did they say what year?

        • KJT 15.1.2.1

          No,but I understand it will be on the 4th of July.

        • ianmac 15.1.2.2

          Yes This year. 21 May. Something to do with a Bible calculation and X number of days which works out to be – 21 May 2011.

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.2.2.1

            The billboard crew will probably be thinking that Japan is a little warm up for the main event.

      • Akldnut 15.1.3

        Q.Coverting any asses lately? ahaaa a question for Shonkey. A. Liz Hurleys got a fine one!
        Jessica Alba’s is in line for the coverting award from him as well. LOL

        • Mac1 15.1.3.1

          Covert/covet. Ass/arse. Meaning/schmeaning. Who cares. The world is ending on March 20 and I have all these fine wines to drink!

          Tonight, it’s been crayfish and a 13 year old Framingham riesling. Rapture!

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.3.1.1

            Rapture? Why are you still here on Earth posting on The Standard then? 😛

            • Mac1 15.1.3.1.1.1

              I got left behind……. with all the wine cellars.

              Joe Bageant, in “Deer Hunting with Jesus”, in my last night’s reading, wrote about coming home as a child born into a fundamentalist family and finding his house deserted. He thought the family had been “raptured up,” an abandonment experience not uncommon in the US.

              There is one serious point to his work about opposing the fundamentalist Right which is important for those of us on the Left ( and who are still left on earth 🙂 ) and I quote (p192) – “they came to power primarily through elections and can be dealt with in the same way: “Anyone who wishes to displace them needs to become more engaged in electoral politics than just watching it on television. You need to become engaged and bring your friends. And your family.””

              Anti-spam “everyone”!

  16. Draco T Bastard 16

    Another Inside Job

    What the film didn’t point out, however, is that the crisis has spawned a whole new set of abuses, many of them illegal as well as immoral. And leading political figures are, at long last, showing some outrage. Unfortunately, this outrage is directed, not at banking abuses, but at those trying to hold banks accountable for these abuses.

    All of which goes to confirm that the rich are different from you and me: when they break the law, it’s the prosecutors who find themselves on trial.

    Our banking system is inherently corrupt and the people at the top of that system are trying their hardest to maintain that corrupt system.

    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      Their own rulers are undermining the very foundations that the greatness of 20th century America was built upon.

      It reminds me of teenagers given reign over their parents expensively built and hard earned mansion while mum and dad are away. Breaking expensive things for a bit of fun, giving valuables away to random mates and holding big parties which will wreck the place. And all of which will in the end, somehow, have no real consequences they think.

  17. logie97 17

    Farrar keeps getting it wrong – he is not having a good day on the Mora’s panel today. Apart from stating the blindingly obvious as fact, on other occasions he has voiced his argument but the invited experts have basically contradicted him.

    The man is a waste of space.

    • Lanthanide 17.1

      Care to let us know what they were talking about?

      • logie97 17.1.1

        …one was sharing his knowledge of earthquakes – he suggested a particular measure of magnitude as a certainty, but the expert said such predictions are nonsense.
        Couldn’t listen beyond half way through the programme sorry – you could check out RNZ’s site.

  18. MrSmith 18

    An interesting article on why we shouldn’t go where Wonkey and his mates are taking us. http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,739082,00.html

  19. Pascal's bookie 19

    I/S has put up the recording of the shoot the natives outburst from the ACT rally. Groans of disapproval sez stuff. They must have sitting a wee way away from wherever the mike was.

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2011/03/act-racist-party.html

    • Rob 19.1

      To be fair, the audio illustrates an immediate reaction of laughter followed a second or two later by some groans. Thus anybody can put whatever spin they like on it.

      To me, it just indicates some people agreed with the sentiment while others did not. It doesn’t matter, come 27 November ACT will be dead.

      • felix 19.1.1

        The best possible spin you can put on this is that not everyone laughed and that many were disappointed by the remark.

        But a whole bunch of them still did laugh and there’s no getting around that. That’s the sound of a room with quite a few racists in it there, buddy.

        One question though: Were the laughs and groans from different people? Or was this the sound of a bunch of racists being racist in private and suddenly realising they were actually being racist in public, and catching themselves?

  20. Draco T Bastard 20

    We wish.

  21. Draco T Bastard 21

    Harawira party Maori-focused

    The chances of a broad-based Left-wing party rising from the ashes of Hone Harawira’s meltdown with the Maori Party have been dashed after he made it clear that any group he led would have to be Maori-focused.

    Hone’s racism destroys any chance of another left wing party. Pretty much destroys his chance of doing anything at all in parliament as well as none of the other parties will have anything to do with him.

    • Deadly_NZ 21.1

      If he had stood up for All the poor, or less well off that were being ripped off by this Government he would have got somewhere. But with his Maori only party he will quickly become irrelevant and thats a pity because he could have put the boot into the NACTS and a lot of people would have listened me included. But now he just becomes background noise.

  22. Rosy 22

    I’m not sure that whoever leaked this is doing themselves any favours.
    Aljazeera live blog
    “Sources inside Libya’s Interim National Council have told Al Jazeera that they received promises from the US, France, and UK that they will agree on a no-fly zone in the first UN Security Council meeting.”
    Captcha: annoy – yep. Certainly will.

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