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Open mike 16/02/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 16th, 2013 - 65 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…


65 comments on “Open mike 16/02/2013”

    • The Al1en 1.1

      If Pat Gregory (failed candidate at the last election) stands in Hamilton West in 2014, so will I.
      Every public meeting, forum and photo op, I will be there to remind everyone she’s just a sad bigoted cunt and though as such she may earn our sympathy, not our votes.

      • muzza 1.1.1

        TA – This is the sort of attitute which needs to play out…Honest people standing in their local electorate, and communicating the failings, lies and BS etc which the local MP would no doubt have partaken in.

        Get stuck into it, imagine the fun to be had!

        PS – Colin Craig is not what he seems, when he talks about children, keep yours inside!

        • The Al1en

          The costs over getting the chance to slam into Macindope and idiots like Gregory and failed human – act’s Gary Mallett, are a small price to pay.
          What is it they say about cost benefit analysis? 😆

          At every meeting I’ll endorse my pick and then get back into the gutter so they don’t have to.
          I might even get on the tele wearing one of my al1en.org shirts.

        • Rogue Trooper

          remember Graham Caphill?

    • Kevin Welsh 1.2

      My bullshit meter usually heads straight to level five whenever ‘conservative christians’ start taling about children. This prick Craig looks too fucking slick for my liking and I wouldn’t trust him to sit the right way on a lavatory.

    • RedBaronCV 1.3

      About what you’d expect from a party that has ” kiddie bashing” as it’s main platform plank.
      Oops it’s been sanitised as anti-smacking.

    • tc 1.4

      Let’s not forget his ‘personal pods’ concept to solve akl’s transport issues. Loony is as loony does.

      An upside is they’ll take votes from the NACT.

  1. Sanctuary 3



    • Colonial Viper 3.1


      If it wasn’t true, that is. Seriously, I’m sure a few Ruskies soiled their underpants when they saw that smokestream incoming at 5km/s then suddenly flare their morning dawn into a brighter than daylight flash.

      • Lanthanide 3.1.1

        I reckon it’s probably the best meteor footage ever.

        • Colonial Viper

          Yep it’s awesome. Real life imitates Hollywood.

        • alwyn

          You have been conned I’m afraid.
          The leader of a Russian political party has identified what it really was.
          It wasn’t a meteorite at all but the US testing a weapon.
          He sounds a bit like Winston Peters with his conspiracy theories.

          • Colonial Viper

            The world is full of conspiracies alwyn. I mean, every time 3 capitalists get together in a room…

            • alwyn

              Surely you are not suggesting

              “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices”

              Actually I tend to think that quote describes any political parties caucus meetings.

              Originally I put in the comment with just the first three lines and the reference. Looking at it I then realised that someone would think I meant it seriously and abuse me so I added the last line to make it obvious I thought it was the guy was nuts.

  2. felixviper 4

    Citizen A with Keith Locke and Matthew Hooton.

    Hoots has a rock solid argument against paying a livable wage, which is essentially ‘What if $18.40 isn’t exactly the right number for everyone?’ Best just keep paying $13.50 then, just to be sure.

    He then goes on to say that pepper-potting state housing in wealthy areas “Creates a lot of social unfairness” because it’s unfair to the families that get a state house but don’t get to live in a nice street. Presumably confining all state house tenants to massive ghettos in the most deprived parts of town is “social fairness”.

    I guess the accident of birth that lands one child in a state house in Avondale and another in a Herne Bay villa is God’s will and indisputable.

    It’s like he’s not even trying.

    • But he says things with such utter conviction that how could you even think that he was not completely right every time?

    • tc 4.2

      Seems clear to me Hoots will be a key player from the NACT in next years election via his spin and soapboxes on radio/print etc, why he’s already ‘helping’ the mallarfia.



    ” UF did not specifically campaign for the ‘mixed ownership model for the electricity companies and Air New Zealand’ because it was not UF policy”

    [ Pete George (16,292) Says: February 15th, 2013 at 10:28 pm]

    Thank you Pete George, for confirming my point.

    In my considered opinion – the voting public of Ohariu were thus effectively misled by United Future and Peter Dunne on the issue of support for the ‘Mixed Ownership Model’ for State-Owned electricity assets and Air New Zealand.

    In my considered opinion, United Future and Peter Dunne SOLD OUT the voting public of Ohariu by voting in support of the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership) Amendment Act 2012.

    The final vote on the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Act 2012, was 61 – 60


    A party vote was called for on the question, That the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.

    Ayes 61
    New Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.
    Noes 60
    New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Māori Party 3; Mana 1.

    I thus believe that I am absolutely correct in my statement that THERE IS NO MANDATE FOR ASSET SALES – given that this minority National Government (which DID campaign on asset sales) has only 59 out of 121 MPs.


    In my considered opinion, Pete George, the one who is effectively LYING – is YOU.

    Even less impressed.

    When you’re in a hole, Pete George, turn off the keys to the ditchdigger?

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    Auckland Mayoral Candidate 2013


    • TheContrarian 5.1

      Penny, I don’t agree with assets sales. Not out of ideology but out of the fact I can’t see it working for our benefit. That said – as I have mentioned to you elsewhere – every government since 1996 has been a minority and National received, in 2011, a greater % of the vote than any party has since MMP was first foisted upon us.

      Stick to the issues, not this bullshit about ‘minority governments’. 9 years of labour was also minority.

      • felixviper 5.1.1

        “Not out of ideology but out of the fact I can’t see it working for our benefit. “

        That’s an interesting statement. Do you imagine that there are many people who are opposed to asset sales for any reason other than they don’t think it will work in our benefit?

        I’m trying to imagine someone who’s ideology informs them that these assets should be publicly owned, but who doesn’t think selling them would be less beneficial than keeping them.

        Or have I misunderstood you? Could you tell me a little more about this relationship between ideology and garden variety reckoning and how you see them relating to this particular issue?

        • TheContrarian

          The point I was trying to make wasn’t about asset sales as a policy. It was about Penny’s assertion that because National is a minority government they don’t have the clout to proceed with their goals.

          All NZ governments since ’96 have been minority governments.

          • felixviper

            Oh I realise that. It would be bullshit to claim any of them had a clear electoral mandate to do anything simply because they were capable of forming a govt.

            But I’m more interested in this idea that there are people who oppose asset sales because of ideology rather than because they think it’s a dumb idea.

            • TheContrarian

              Do you not agree there are people out there that think National = bad no matter what is proposed?

              Sure as shit there are those on the right that automatically oppose anything the left might introduce without consideration because left = commienazirepression.

              Just as easily as some on the left equate right = fascisthitler!

              • felixviper

                I don’t think there can be that many. I certainly haven’t met anyone that fits that description.

                I’ve heard plenty of people say things like “bloody national govt, selling our assets” but I’ve never heard it the other way around.

                Never heard anyone say they don’t like asset sales because it’s a National govt doing it.

                Have you?

                • Colonial Viper

                  I’ve heard plenty of people say things like “bloody national govt, selling our assets” but I’ve never heard it the other way around.

                  Oh, I don’t know, “bloody Labour govt, selling our assets” seems to ring a bell too.

                  • felixviper

                    Yeah, but Contrarian seems to be putting that sentiment down to some sort of loyalty to an ideology rather than just not wanting our bloody stuff flogged off.

                    • McFlock

                      I’d completely agree with cont if anyone here typed:

                      “fucking nats – created a surplus, cut inequality, increased benefits, introduced compulsory union membership, created a livable minimum wage for all, and on top of THAT the fuckwits have cut unemployment to less than 3%!!!!”

                • TheContrarian

                  Ideology runs both ways, my friend.

                  • felixviper

                    But I still don’t know what you mean by “ideology”. Your first comment implied that people are opposed to assets sales because of “ideology”.

                    Is “I don’t think these strategic assets should be sold” an ideology?

                    I actually want to know what you’re getting at. How do you know you’re not “ideologically” opposed to these asset sales?

                    What would it look like if you were, and how would it differ from how your views on the matter are presented now (‘these sales are not beneficial’)?

                    • Lanthanide

                      I don’t understand why saying some argument is based on ideology is like some sort of get out of jail free card for why you don’t have to engage with their argument.

                      “Oh, they’re just being ideological, so I don’t have to try and rebutt what they’re saying”. Of course then lots of things start being ‘ideological’ and therefore unworthy of debate…

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      Lanth, you’re dead right there. It is a cop out.

                      And Contro seems to be, I could be wrong but he hasn’t explained hisself, confusing ideology with party partisanship.

                      ‘I don’t like it because National is doing it’, isn’t an ideological statement in the least.

                      In fact, I’d go so far as to say, (just you watch me),that the statement is the opposite of ideological.

                      It’s not the sort of thing an ideologist would say at all. Someone who is a devout party partisan (vote for a green syphilitic cat if it had a blue rosette) is by definition not voting based on ideology.

      • blue leopard 5.1.2

        The issue that Penny appears to be explaining and why it seems like bullshit, The Contrarian, is because it is answering to the bullshit assertion that this Government makes about having a mandate on the matter. They do not.

        Democracy, last time I checked, is about representing the peoples wishes. National chose to manipulate their popularity in order to get a very unpopular approach pushed through. Having done this, they are now in a position to do this very unpopular approach, to our detriment. People were stupid to vote for them believing that they were “fair and reasonable” enough to listen to the opinion of their voters. The least that this government can do is stop spinning the factually incorrect misinformation that they have a mandate.

        • Colonial Viper

          People were stupid to vote for them believing that they were “fair and reasonable” enough to listen to the opinion of their voters.

          This applies to a fair number of National voters. However, a good number of their voters did so because they saw no strong alternative government-in-waiting led by Labour.

          • blue leopard

            …yes, one would hope that opposition parties might learn from last election results.

            Until research is conducted as to why so many people stayed at home, when serious issues affecting this country such as the GFC were occurring might indicate it was important to have a more responsible government, we will all not know the real reason for Nact slipping across the “win” line into Government again. And actually it was very close. I suspect that “no real alternative” is as good a suspicion as any.

            Another might be people are proudly non-political here, along with seriously uninformed….well the two go together really don’t they…

      • Te Reo Putake 5.1.3

        Picked up another twenty signatures yesterday, TC. The asset sales are not wanted by the majority of kiwis. The point, as CV notes, is that National do not have a mandate for the sales. They fell short of reaching a majority by themselves, including their Epsom sock puppet and their support parties are either opposed to the sales or, in the case of United Future, deliberately ambiguous on the matter during the election campaign.

        Even if the Nats got that majority, they couldn’t claim a mandate because opposition to the sales comes from their voters as well. It wasn’t the defining issue of the campaign by any means and clearly some people voted National despite the asset sales program. The way to get a mandate is to put it to a vote.

        • tc

          +1, like they’ll ever do that.

          The power generators have already been carved up behind closed door and lollies dished out, like the 500k to Heffernden for doing nothing. Shippers on genesis board, fees to mates for ‘advice’ etc etc.

          Radical but a gutsy opposition party should propose to re-nationalise the power industry, it’s a dogs breakfast of profit taking and ticket clipping, in a country of less than 4 mill with so much hyrdo etc what we pay per kWh is a white collar crime for an essential utility.

          That includes booting Origin out of contact btw…..we aint moving forward by not owning our essential infrastructure and you could fix a price/kWh with the electorate and keep it by removing the leeches.

        • marty mars

          + 1 on ya. I find it hard to see how we will stop them but we must keep trying – thank you TRP for your work in convincing people and getting signatures.

  4. NoseViper (The Nose knows) 7

    It would be good if leaders took note of inequality. I am joining up dots in the horsemeat in burgers scandal in Europe.
    Heard – Roumania banned horse and carts. Result an excess of horses in the market for living ones so presumably they were sold for their meat. Bad political thought by people who don’t live at horse and cart level.
    Heard – The meat gets shot around like balls in a pinball machine. Lots of distance, and lots of going for the cheapest, bu..er the quality and integrity. (One small supermarket is grinning has direct traceabilty, farmer, transport to works, transport to shop .)
    Memory – One of the features of beef disease outbreak in Britain with its resulting dreadful carnage of all animals even some rare, heritage breeds, was the distance that animals were transported so it seems that the government has not tried to limit this lackadaisical treatment of vulnerable animals and precious food.

    And here is a chance to push our barrow that their meat over there has hidden miles and hidden dangers so let’s stop this potting us for our food miles which are transparent.

    Here’s something on Mad Cow disease – we need to keep being aware of this, as its always likely when you get big profit-first, cost-containing companies. Which we are getting in NZ and they could ruin our hard-won quality image.

    What is Mad Cow Disease (from About.com – Education: Chemistry)
    Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE), except that Mad Cow Disease is much easier to pronounce!
    The disease is caused by prions.
    Prions can cross between species (although not all species get diseases from them). Cattle get the disease from eating infected food, such as feed that contains rendered parts of infected sheep. Yes, cattle are grazing creatures, but their diets may be supplemented with protein from another animal source.
    Cattle don’t immediately get sick from eating the prions. It can take months or years for Mad Cow Disease to develop.

  5. PJ 8

    “Elastomer Products managing director Tom Thomson drops a foot of fibre optic cable on the table.

    The Christchurch plastics manufacturer points to the plastic casing covering the ultrafast broadband cables that Government and industry are rolling out across the country in a $3.5b infrastructure project.

    “I would have been into that like a pig into strawberries,” he fumes.

    He had been through all the tender documents and found no mention of the product that will encase about 23,000 kilometres of UFB cable. It would have been millions of dollars of work, he says…

    …”The problem here is that China has a 50-year plan, we have a three-year electoral cycle and a feeling that supporting your manufacturing base is somehow cheating.” ”


    • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 8.1

      Very revealing of NZ political and business rorts.

    • xtasy 8.2

      NZ politicians, sadly also many NZ business people, and NZ consumers have mostly a one day at a time plan. NZ is a country of division and short sightedness.

      Trying so desperately to convince people that planning, smart thinking and including various parties to agendas, that has been a nightmarish and futile effort I have been engaged in for years.

      It is so bloody sad, to see a country with the resources, and possibilities, sell itself out, undersell itself and ruin the future of the young that are born here and grow up here.

      I am NOT a nationalist, I just try to bring a common sense thinking into this.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1

        Well, I’m a nationalist (and a democratic socialist), and I agree with every point that you made.

  6. Tim 9

    STUFF … (the impartial bastions of the 4th Estate), reports:
    Government Rejects – etc ( I can’t even be bothered with the rest of the headline)
    Just as they do with anything to do with crime or Polis.

    There’s some mininalistic training regime that goes on slightly East of Porirua – where ONCE in the dim distant past (passed), certain things whereby a Police Force in an environment where people were treated as citizenz – were taught.

    I’ve a marriage and an ex-wife to prove how much better the outcomes of those days were.

    Now we have a ‘fORCE’ of waist-belt-ridden pepper-spray ridden; taser-holding; etc., etc., etc. sutch that they waddle like fucking ducks. UGLY UGLY UGLY

    You visit Police Nat HQ, for example, and the woosiness, the ideologically driven imperative just exudes from every lift shaft.

    It’s all really rather pathetic.

    • Tim 10.1

      They do, because they can.
      I’m always amazed at the likes of Greg O_C advocating for the more – always forgetting what the fuck they used-to-do.
      The more he advocates, the woosier his disciples – i.e. – supposedly the rank and file. I accept the guy was never exactly the hero he would like to have people think he is, but its really rather dishonest to portray himself as having his disciples’ best interests at heart.

      There goes a force of a majority of basically committed and good folks, held to ransom and protected by a minority of complete neanderthals all headed by – well – you guessed it

    • muzza 10.2

      It’s also an offence to discharge a firearm with intention to alarm, or to do so unintentionally through negligence,” Crawford said.

      This is about the beating down, using any show of force required to repress, show who is boss, show that you are nothing!

      Negligence – A word used by a cop, what a joke, they are the most bent gang in this country!

  7. xtasy 11

    HOUSING, particularly state housing is neglected something disgustingly by the present NatACT government.

    Today I read this:

    So stuff all building of state houses has been done under National, and it proves Heatley, who lost his job, as a total liar! He went on about all these great homes that were supposedly being built under his watch.

    What Housing NZ are doing now is this:


    It was in the Auckland Central Leader last week also, and this week an article in the same local paper already reports about protests of local residents about HNZ building a 3-level chicken cage style ghetto there in Onehunga, Auckland.

    Yes, that is what the hell is going on. Housing NZ tenants are driven out of their existing homes, level ground homes get bulldozed, and part of the land (in some cases also property) is sold to private “developers”, who make a nice profit out of building part crap for HNZ tenants, a few larger homes (on tiny grounds) for the odd larger family, and some supposedly cheaper private homes for private market home buyers.

    Already in the past most HNZ homes were rather smallish, but in future, you will be put into a kind of tiny pigeon hole, if you are lucky to even get a state home!

    That has become of “state housing” now, and to make it all worse, I hear NADA from Labour’s housing spokeswoman, Annette King!

    As I suspect, and it is the same with other policies, Labour are dreaming of the same agenda as National, but they only want to make it a little more “palatable” to the affected and wider public, by not being “too harsh”.

    Thank you for that, and I am still waiting for many other overdue answers from Labour spokespersons, MPs and whatever, last not least the “majestic leader” DS.

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    House prices in Wellington, Hamilton and Tauranga are going off as a result of uncontrolled property speculation spilling over from the Auckland market, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “Speculators who have been priced out of Auckland are now fanning ...
    3 weeks ago
  • New Zealand lags on aid targets
      The National Government needs to live up to its commitments and allocate 0.7 per cent of Gross National Income on development assistance, says Labour’s spokesperson on Pacific Climate Change Su’a William Sio.  “The second State of the Environment Report ...
    3 weeks ago
  • War on drugs needs more troops
    The Minister of Police must urgently address the number of officers investigating illegal drugs if she is serious about making a dent in the meth trade, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Stuart Nash.  “Answers from written questions from the Minister show ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Doctors strike symptom of health cuts
    The notice of strike action issued by the junior doctors today is the result of years of National’s cuts to the health system, says Labour’s Associate Health spokesperson Dr David Clark. ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Government starves RNZ into selling Auckland asset
    Just weeks after TVNZ opened its refurbished Auckland head office costing more than $60 million, RNZ (Radio New Zealand) has been forced to put its Auckland office on the market to keep itself afloat, says Labour’s Broadcasting spokesperson Clare Curran. ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Government must be more than a bystander on the economy
    Despite what he might think John Key is not a political commentator, but actually a leader in a Government who needs to take responsibility for the conditions that mean a rise in interest rates, says Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson.  “John ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Māori Party all hui no-doey on housing
    The Māori Party should stop tinkering and start fixing tragic Māori housing statistics in the face of a national housing crisis, says Labour’s Māori Development spokesman Kelvin Davis. ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Labour committed to eliminating child poverty
    Labour accepts the challenge from Children’s Commissioner Andrew Becroft to cut child poverty and calls on the Prime Minister to do the same, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. ...
    3 weeks ago