Open Mike 16/02/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 16th, 2016 - 130 comments
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130 comments on “Open Mike 16/02/2016”

  1. vto 1

    Please excuse me but heaps of people in the South Island are at an unacceptable heavy risk of death and injury this morning so this needs re-posting.

    Open Mike 15/02/2016

    • Jenny Kirk 1.1

      Have you drawn this to the attention of whoever is Minister of Transport, vto ?

      Probably a bit useless trying to get a response from the puppet who is Minister of “Tourism.

  2. Pascals bookie 2

    Aleppo, cluster bombs.

    • te reo putake 2.1

      I see the Russians have struck a significant blow against terrorism overnight, taking out three MSF field hospitals. That’ll learn ’em!

      • Pascals bookie 2.1.1

        And a school that was reportedly sheltering people fleeing Aleppo! Further glory to great savior Putin, whose crimes do not count because he is not Western.

      • Morrissey 2.1.2

        Te Reo,

        I can find no evidence of your expressing any outrage at the sustained bombing of Kunduz Hospital in Afghanistan last year.

        • Pascals bookie 2.1.2.1

          I condemned it, as I condemn this. Because I support things based on what’s done, not on who does it. How about you?

        • Paul 2.1.2.2

          Wonder if you can find similar outrage about Fallujah and Odessa.

          • Pascals bookie 2.1.2.2.1

            You’ll find it from me, but to reiterate,

            ‘I oppose war crimes especially those targeting civilians and the medical infrastructure that supports civilian populations in a war zone. People who do these things are war criminals who should be tried in court and should lose the support of anyone who claims to be of the left’.

        • te reo putake 2.1.2.3

          Keep looking Moz, it’s there somewhere. If you haven’t found it by this evening get back to me and I promise to take action. I’ve got the night shift at trp towers on standby just in case. They’re big fans of your work.

      • BLiP 2.1.3

        I wonder what they’re excuse will be. The US at least told a large part of the truth when it slaughtered innocents at a hospital . . .

        . . . A U.S. airstrike that mistakenly killed 30 people at a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan, last month was, in part, the result of military personnel inadvertently aiming at the wrong target — the hospital compound — instead of a suspected nearby site, from which Taliban fighters were firing, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan said Wednesday . . .

      • One Two 2.1.4

        As an internationalist, does it grind against your allegiance to accept that the USA and the UK are directly responsible for the very existence of ISIS ?

    • vto 2.2

      holy fuck is that what cluster bombs do?

      heinous

      • Paul 2.2.1

        Here is a timeline of their use.
        It seems we should be condemning a lot of countries for their inhumane use.

        http://www.stopclustermunitions.org/en-gb/cluster-bombs/use-of-cluster-bombs.aspx

        • Pascals bookie 2.2.1.1

          Indeed we should. I am, that’s why I posted it.

          The fact that Putin fights like this, as has been known since Grozny, is why I don’t support him. The same reason I didn’t support what was done by Bush in Iraq and Kissinger in SE Asia.

          I realise that other people do support Putin on the basis he is not Western though, I get that.

          • BLiP 2.2.1.1.1

            Putin is far from alone in the use of cluster bombs, although he is less likely to be breaking his own law than Obama is . . .

            Human Rights Watch released a report Sunday providing new indications that Saudi Arabia has fired American-made cluster munitions, banned by international treaty, in civilian areas of Yemen, and said their use may also violate United States law.

            The report included photographs from Yemen purporting to show unexploded but potentially lethal remnants of American cluster weapons, suggesting that they had failed legally required reliability standards . . .

  3. Morrissey 3

    “Good on Joycey for front-footing it!”
    Is Hillary Barry auditioning for a future rôle as parliamentary head-nodder?

    Paul Henry, TV3, Tuesday 16 February 2016

    Shortly after 6 o’clock news, the eponymous host and his two slaves engage in a discussion about the major news story of the last 24 hours: John Oliver’s coverage of the dildo attack on Steven Joyce at Waitangi. After Henry mentions that Joyce had quipped “Might as well send it straight to John Oliver and get it over with,” there’s a brief clip of Labour leader Andrew Little contending that this is no longer a laughing matter, and New Zealand is now an international laughing stock. Cut to news-reader slave Hilary Barry frowning at that killjoy, then expressing her North Korean level of support for the regime. “Good on Joycey,” she intones fervently, “for front-footing it!”

    There is no longer even the slightest pretense of political objectivity on this show. That Key regime bail-out of Media Works a few years back is really paying off.

    BREEN PREDICTS:
    In a few years, look for National M.P. Hillary Barry to fill the vital parliamentary head-nodding rôle currently occupied by another old television hack, Maggie Barry and her understudies Louise Upston and Tim McIndoe.

    • Paul 3.1

      Apparently Key gave an audience to Henry the day before.
      The Dear Leader was glorified by his media slaves.

    • Paul 3.2

      Still think that hatchet job of the smelly TPP protesters was the lowest they’ve gone. Courtesy of Garner and du Plessis.
      We should remember who were the enablers for the elite.

    • Skinny 3.3

      Joyce got a lot more than he wished for, mocked the crap out of. Key and his pet flag project copped it also. Teflon John can hardly blame anyone else but his lead snake oil salesman Joyce for really bringing the dildo saga to a worldwide audience.

      Not the brightest dildo in the toy box, but certainly the biggest. Be a couple of angry hobbits in the House today. Keep it coming team teflon, laughter will make a change to the booing you have been getting lately.

    • Crashcart 3.4

      I am no fan of Joyce but I actually think he has handled this as well as he possibly could. He had no control over getting smacked in the face with a big dick. Did he go full on offensive? no he actually pushed the humorous side of it. May have been un wise to goad Oliver but I wonder if John really could have avoided pulling the piss out of the guy who said that the NACT adds were “pretty legal”.

  4. Skinny 5

    Audrey Young pens an odd piece together leading with John Key’s honeymoon is over than drops in the small crowd nonsense booing him at the BDO.

    One thing is clear Natcorp are panicked. Last week they conducted polling in Northland & Whangarei electorates seeking information about do you know the candidates from the last election and who would you vote for if an election was held tomorrow? Monitoring Shane Reti’s popularity closely, given the likelihood that Shane Jones could make his comeback in the Whangarei seat. Interesting Peters was saying Whangarei will fall to NZF next.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11590131

    • ianmac 5.1

      Given her recent praise the Lord Key pieces, this one by Audrey has a plaintive tone, like when she discovered that Father Christmas was a fraud.

  5. Sabine 6

    Foreign ownership is good for us, and what have Unions ever done for us.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/76912197/prime-range-meats-boss-gutted-for-130-workers-after-processing-suspended

    the first comment is interesting, the Lady complaining that Winz appointments are weeks away, that the National MP for the electorate is not helpfull, and Unions were not allowed on the site.

    Oh shucks. NZ is waking up from the beauty slumber of the last few years.

  6. BLiP 7

    Horowhenua District Council doing its bit for 100% Pure New Zealand . . .

    • Rosemary McDonald 7.1

      And, strangely, this….http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11590284

      “A 70-year-old eco-warrior has been left bruised and battered after being beaten in a “cowardly” attack outside his Shannon home in the dead of night.
      As they left the men commented on who had sent them. However, the Horowhenua Chronicle will not identify them as police are investigating the assault.

      Mr Andrews is an environmental activist and spent Friday and Saturday prior to the attack, dealing with an issue to do with Shannon’s Sewerage Treatment Plant where he and Shannon councillor Ross Campbell filmed what they believed to be raw sewage being pumped into the nearby Otauru Stream (Standsell drain) which then poured into the nearby Mangaone Stream, which feeds the Manawatu River.”

      Shit, as they say, just got real.

      • Andre 7.1.1

        To be fair, this particular issue isn’t new. The Mangaore Stream was an open sewer even in the early 80s.

    • David H 7.2

      The Horror Phew Enema city council is hopeless. I have been on at them for 2 years to do some proper recycling, but no. Everything still goes into the landfill.

  7. Muttonbird 8

    The wheels on the bus are falling off.

    Someone who knows more than I might know what the long term effect of having 2.2% growth entirely due to immigration, while real growth lies at zero.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11590214

    • mac1 8.1

      Long term effects?
      Blenheim 1999- 35 shops empty after nine years of National. Personally counted.

      Come forward to 2011 after 9 years of Labour and three years of National.
      Blenheim 15 shops empty.
      After 7 years of National, in 2015
      Blenheim 20 shops empty.
      After 8 years of National in 2016?
      Blenheim 29 shops empty. Double that of five years ago.
      Figures from the Marlborough Express.

      I wonder how other regional economies are faring under National? Was this neglect apparent in Northland and reflected in the message given recently to National by the election of Winston Peters in preference to a National lackey?

      National seems to be lacking the key to economic growth.

    • Sabine 8.2

      as i posted yesterday, one of my real estate customers is really happy that the asian investors (her term not mine) are finally recieving their IRD numbers and sales in Auckland will pick up again and prices should raise accordingly.

      don’t you feel the rockstar economy? All drugs rock n roll and early death?

  8. Muttonbird 9

    I think Tim felt that he knew best.

    -Phil Goff

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/296628/lobbyists-at-odds-over-tpp-consultation

    Even the chief of the dairy industry says the government got it wrong while Goff lays out the differences in the public consultation process during the China agreement and the TPP. This highlights to me just why Labour moved away from the so called bi-partisan relationship – because the current government had abandoned the inclusive consultation process adopted by the more publicly responsible Labour government.

    Farrer can whinge all he likes about the change in attitude by Labour but the real change in attitude was by Tim Groser and his paranoid, do-nothing department.

  9. Puckish Rogue 10

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/76837125/Can-John-Key-pull-off-a-fourth-term-Here-are-the-reasons-why-he-might?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Well here’s a reason why he’ll get a fourth term:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/76925005/labour-leader-andrew-little-on-john-olivers-dancing-dildos

    I mean seriously who’s advising him?

    “So we kind of asked for it, but what we got was absolutely full on,” he said.

    “Once you had the dancing dildos and the full on hallelujah chorus, it goes beyond something where we’re just laughing at ourselves.”

    I mean if you want to show NZ you have no sense of humour then well done he has certainly nailed it

    • ianmac 10.1

      3/10. Must try harder Puckish.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1

        Little has a perception in wider NZ of being a humourless union appointee so when theres a chance to show that he has a sense of humour what does do?

        Come off like hes po-faced whereas Joyce tweets it was quite funny so who do you think will resonate with the majority of voters?

        • Sabine 10.1.1.1

          look it was a really funny video, and friends of mine from overseas really think that our government is worse than theirs, at least as one friend put it, they can keep it in their pants :

          lol..

          bwhahahahahahahahaha Dildo Baggins. Awesome comedy. Can you see the Honorable Mr. Joyce go and meet and greet dignitaries overseas…..Gentlement and Ladies….Dildo Bagg….err Steven Joyce Minster of something from NZ.

          bhwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

          • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.1.1

            I can see it more then I can see someone from Labour because Labour would have to be in a position of power first

            Labour in power in before 2020 bhwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

            • weka 10.1.1.1.1.1

              You’re a liar PR.

              “However, Little himself couldn’t stop grinning as he spoke about it.”

              • Puckish Rogue

                It doesn’t matter, that statement comes down right near the end which means the narrative has already been planted in the readers mind so when they get to the bottom (IF they get to the bottom) the idea that Little is humourless is already stuck there.

                Whereas the first two paragraphs are:

                “The Leader of the Opposition has expressed his concern over a skit which made fun of a government minister being hit with a sex toy.”

                “Labour leader Andrew Little questioned minister Steven Joyce’s invitation for a comedian to poke fun at the incident which occurred a couple of weeks ago.”

                I mean seriously can you really not see the issue here?

                Whoever is running the media for Andrew Little should be all over this

                Amateur hour is what it is

                • weka

                  You are a liar. You’ve made an argument that Little has no sense of humour and you’ve quoted some bits from a newspaper article to back that up and then left out the bit where they’ve said he was finding the whole thing funny. Hence you lied.

                  Or, you didn’t actually watch Little or read the whole article, which makes you stupid.

                  I’m good with either.

            • Sabine 10.1.1.1.1.2

              mate, its all good.

              I can see it MP / future PM Dildo Baggins, National Party….bwhahahahahaha

              no matter what mate, this guy is all yours.

        • Skinny 10.1.1.2

          Joycie wasn’t so twerpy on twitter last night. That is because he knew he put his boot to his own head. Oh the joy of watching parliament later today!

    • seeker 10.2

      @puckish rogue

      You must have liked the phrase John Oliver used at the beginning of the video regarding previous coverage of New Zealand and “their ridiculous Prime Minister .”

      I know I did, even though I felt embarassed, it was such a relief to hear someone in the media speak the truth!

  10. McFlock 11

    Colonial Viper:

    If the political left think that pushing a Twerking for a “Pervy PM” angle against “dirty old man” John Key is going to help prevent a 4th term for National, it has another think coming.

    So what would prevent a 4th term for national?

    • weka 11.1

      Good question, although another one might be ‘What would ensure a first term left wing coalition govt?’

      In terms of preventing National getting a 4th term, I think the recording of and discussion about the PM of NZ being a disgrace of a PM (separate from his other sins) is useful.

      I also think the TPPA is going to be a big thorn in their side if the protest momentum can be kept going.

      But ultimately I think the problem isn’t that National are good, it’s that we need Labour to present as competent and then the left wing parties to present as a govt in waiting. No amount of dealing to National will make up for that if it’s missing.

      • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1

        In terms of preventing National getting a 4th term, I think the recording of and discussion about the PM of NZ being a disgrace of a PM (separate from his other sins) is useful.

        – No it won’t, the majority of voters don’t seem to care

        I also think the TPPA is going to be a big thorn in their side if the protest momentum can be kept going.

        – It will be a big thorn but that thorn will be for Labour (you don’t think Key will go hard on Littles support but not really support for the TPPA?)

        But ultimately I think the problem isn’t that National are good, it’s that we need Labour to present as competent and then the left wing parties to present as a govt in waiting. No amount of dealing to National will make up for that if it’s missing.

        – On this we’re in complete agreement

        • weka 11.1.1.1

          “– No it won’t, the majority of voters don’t seem to care”

          Citation needed, or at least some credible theorising.

          We don’t need the majority of voters to care, we just need enough voters to vote on the left. The right didn’t win by a huge margin last time.

          • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1.1.1

            My theorising is that National and John Key are still high in the polls and Labours stagnating and I bet that the next round of polls will see a slight lift for National and a slight dip for Labour

            We don’t need the majority of voters to care, we just need enough voters to vote on the left. The right didn’t win by a huge margin last time.

            – Heres what the Left needed to win last time:

            Labour + Green + NZFirst + Maori Party + UF + Act

            and heres what National could have done

            National + MP or National + UF or National + Act

            • weka 11.1.1.1.1.1

              “My theorising is that National and John Key are still high in the polls and Labours stagnating and I bet that the next round of polls will see a slight lift for National and a slight dip for Labour”

              Sure, but how do you tie that into “the majority of voters don’t seem to care” about Key as PM supporting rape culture? I’m not talking about the next poll, I’m talking about a steady shift within the culture in NZ over time. The next poll could be influenced by a rugby game or any other event, I don’t see how you could pull out the influence of a dynamic happening over a year or so.

              – Heres what the Left needed to win last time:

              Labour + Green + NZFirst + Maori Party + UF + Act

              and heres what National could have done

              National + MP or National + UF or National + Act

              You are assuming that the left wouldn’t pick up any additional votes, so that doesn’t make sense.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Because if the voters did care, and more pertinently believed what the left were saying, then Nationals and John Keys numbers would be getting close to Labours and Littles

                “You are assuming that the left wouldn’t pick up any additional votes, so that doesn’t make sense.”

                – I’m assuming you’re referring to the missing million voters? If so you’re falling into the trap that thinks all those voters are left wing voters and if Labour just went more left all the voters would flock to it

                • weka

                  “Because if the voters did care, and more pertinently believed what the left were saying, then Nationals and John Keys numbers would be getting close to Labours and Littles”

                  Only if things were really simple and people thought about voting in such simplistic ways. We’ve both agreed that the lefts polling isn’t going to move much until Labour look more competent, so there may be people upset at Key who still won’t say Labour until Labour change, but when Labour change they will jump easily. This is why the timeframes are important. It’s a long time until the next election and I can’t see Key improving his record in that time.

                  “– I’m assuming you’re referring to the missing million voters? If so you’re falling into the trap that thinks all those voters are left wing voters and if Labour just went more left all the voters would flock to it”

                  No, I’m not. I’m assuming that because in the past more NZers have voted on the left they can do so again. That might be part of the non-vote, it might be swing voters. It might be poor RW turnout, or centrist voters wanting to give Labour a chance. Your arguments are superficially tempting to some but the reality is more complex.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    The funny thing is I actually agree with most of what you’re saying, the only real difference is the time frame

                    I think National will win in 2017 and lose in 2020

                    • Colonial Viper

                      You gotta be kidding mate.

                      Paula Bennett versus Grant Robertson 2020

                      There is only one possible outcome from that stoush.

        • Sabine 11.1.1.2

          well hmm, the voters that booed at him both at the rugby game and the bgo might disagree with you. but in saying that, i agree that a lot of voters would not see it and hence not know about it.

          tppa, hmm at the moment it is key’s thorn, and it will be labours thorn when they get to form a coalition government, but they will by then supported and restrained by the Greens (which is good in my eyes) and i think Winston Peters will have a thing to say or two.

          again i agree that Labour needs to do better, and so do the Greens and NZ First if they want to be the grand coalition. They all need to up their game and play MMP instead of what evs.

          However, reading the article about the Meatworkers that are not working because their chinese overlords are not ready yet (linked to the stuff article in Open Mike), and reading the comments, there are a lot of smaller lesser known National MP’s that are not getting good creds for doing their work, WINZ is not getting good cred for helping these people that are not pulling a wage for a few weeks and all points to the complete lack of care of the National MP’s in their electorate, and the National Governed Ministry that should help these people. I am guessing that nothing much is going to change over the next year, and if National voters get upset enough they might simply abstain from voting if they can’t be seen voting for any of the other parties.

          So frankly i think at this day and age, everything is possible, and John Key has more to loose then any of the other parties.

      • BM 11.1.2

        I also think the TPPA is going to be a big thorn in their side if the protest momentum can be kept going.

        That’s going to guarantee a 4th term

        In terms of preventing National getting a 4th term, I think the recording of and discussion about the PM of NZ being a disgrace of a PM (separate from his other sins) is useful.

        Only in lefty world is the PM considered a disgrace, so there’s no win there, if anything it’s costing the left votes.

        Seriously, go have a look at John Keys face book page and read some of the offensive comments left wingers have made under pictures of John Key talking and interacting with peoples kids.

        Lots and lots of pissed off parents having what is a nice experience ruined by some left wing wankers.

        Absolute voter poison for the left, especially Labour.

        • weka 11.1.2.1

          “That’s going to guarantee a 4th term”

          So you say. I’m finding the whole CT mantra-repeating ‘National will win, the left will lose’ thing without any political substance boring. We need better RWNJs.

          A poll last year, fwiw, showed that something like 60% of NZers are against the TPPA, 34% for and the rest undecided. Of the National party voters only 22% are in favour.

          Link to the FB convos or they didn’t happen.

          • BM 11.1.2.1.1

            -any photo with Key

            This shit is what’s sinking the left

            • weka 11.1.2.1.1.1

              Had a quick scroll through of a couple of those, it doesn’t look full of rapid left wingers destroying people’s family time. It looks mostly like Key fans posting applause and a few other people dropping in either political comments or angry insulting ones (and not necessarily lefties, not sure why you categorise them all that way). Par for the course for FB.

              I don’t agree with calling Key a paedophile, mostly because I think we are really bad in NZ at dealing with rape culture and throwing round accusations like that makes things murkier not clearer. But I think you underestimate how many people in NZ will be feeling uncomfortable about the growing number of times Key demonstrates at the least poor judgement when it comes to issues close to sexual violence. Even of the people who are good with Key’s politics there will be some who are uncomfortable with how he is on this.

              • Colonial Viper

                A poll last year, fwiw, showed that something like 60% of NZers are against the TPPA, 34% for and the rest undecided. Of the National party voters only 22% are in favour.

                And Labour can’t even get their shit together to interpret from that what they should do with regards to the TPP.

                An absolute vote winning position on the TPP staring them right in the face and instead they choose to side with the corporates and transnational financial interests.

                That’s why National will get a 4th term.

          • Puckish Rogue 11.1.2.1.2

            Yeah but rememeber there was also a lot of opposition to the partial sell down of shares in the power companies and it didn’t stop National then

            The thing the left to recognize is theres a difference between a government enacting a policy that’s unpopular and a enacting a policy that will see you lose an election

            This is an unpopular policy but its not going to cost the election for National but when protestors block of roads of people going to work then that will cost votes for the left

            • Colonial Viper 11.1.2.1.2.1

              Civil resistance is going to cause inconvenience, no doubt about it.

              But the real problem for the left is that there is no alternative political economic agenda being presented to the people.

              Merely mild tweaking of the current agenda.

              And in that case, why on Earth would you vote for fake vanilla when you can have real vanilla?

        • Skinny 11.1.2.2

          And all your doing pal is trying to tag these halfwits you talk about to Labour. We all know Key accused Mana and the Greens of being the small group who disrupted the GDO. You have to get in the real world, the likelihood of a fourth term is remote. For every 10 policies the Bats have put forward 1 or 2 will be met with disapproval, as the years roll by and more disapproving policies come with the years, some voters reach the tipping point. The TPPA, the flag change are big voter slippage, add more as we close in on the 2017 election and it is over for the incumbent. Happened to Clark and it will happen to Key. That is political life cobbah.

          • BM 11.1.2.2.1

            Voters still think in FPP terms, they hear/read someone doing something offensive at John Key, automatically think must be a left winger.

            Biggest party on the left is Labour, must be a Labour voter.

            Little hasn’t got a chance with these fuckwits running around spraying their shit every where.

            • Skinny 11.1.2.2.1.1

              Not all voters think FPP not in Epsom as you know and not in Northland as you also know. It has taken a while for the opposition party’s to get their head around strategic voting but the whole country sat up and took notice when Peters took a seat that was regarded as a safe national stronghold. There are countless seats that the same result can happen. Especially in the forgotten regions.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Counting on Winstons support before the trading begins and the votes have been counted is not really a good idea

                • Skinny

                  Winston is a good man, an honest man, honest as the day is long, that is why so many Kiwis like the man and his party, his MP’s are solid too. Will be delighted when he can find time from his busy schedule to joins me on a friends super yacht for some much needed r & r with a wee celebration of a tidy donation to his party.

        • Molly 11.1.2.3

          “Seriously, go have a look at John Keys face book page and read some of the offensive comments left wingers have made under pictures of John Key talking and interacting with peoples kids.”
          You have a lot of faith in people online, actually being who and what they say they are.

    • Skinny 11.2

      I will give you my opinion from someone who has tagged a few hits on Key and his cronies over the years.

      Start now with theme’s that the public can relate to. Highlight their association with corporations, address them as National Corporation or Natcorp, it is clearly evident Kiwis distrust the sweet deal the multi national corporations are getting if the TPPA comes to pass. Use the Tories own trick that this government is tired out of fresh idea’s and use the time for change meme. All this stuff is basic but it will get the desired result.

      • Sabine 11.2.1

        Yes, i like to point out the changes to the welfare system since our National Led Government started. It is interesting to see how many people actually don’t know that you have no more Widowers benefits, no more Sickness Benefit, etc. That all those people now are on the JobSeekers benefit.

        And so on and so on. Nope this did not happen under Labour, these were changes that came about under John Key and his National Party led Government.
        Any issues, please contact your local National MP. 🙂

        • The Chairman 11.2.1.1

          Sabine, the difficulty of pointing out National’s changes to the welfare system is Labour hasn’t committed, or even made mention, they would overturn them.

      • Puckish Rogue 11.2.2

        Use the Tories own trick that this government is tired out of fresh idea’s and use the time for change meme. All this stuff is basic but it will get the desired result.

        – That is not a bad idea but the problem for Labour (specifically) is that Labour doesn’t look like its rejuvenated as much as National have, as an example National have two hold overs from the 80s whereas Labour has three but the real problem is that those three from Labour get a lot of air time (King, Goff and Mallard) whereas Williamson and McCully don’t get as much (in Williamsons case far too much but I digress)

        • Sabine 11.2.2.1

          again in an MMP environment Labour is just one party. It needs to do well, granted, but it does not need to go it alone.

          So you see, there is still some time to come for National to loose it, for the opposition to win it.

          And I frankly look forward to the National Party of Pulls Her Benefit and the Crusher, as clearly D. Baggins might have issues in the future.

          • Puckish Rogue 11.2.2.1.1

            Of course yes National could lose it and the opposition could win it but National are still keeping a reasonably tight lid on its internal struggles whereas Labour is still leaking like a sieve

            Yes we’re in an MMP environment but the voting public still sees it as Labour + support partners as no one seriously considers that the Greens will ever be more then a support partner so if the left wing block are to take power then Labour MUST be seen to be a credible option for running the country

            At the moment National haven’t had any major howlers and Labour hasn’t had any significant hits

        • Skinny 11.2.2.2

          If the language kept basic most kiwis (who are not political junkies) soon start following like sheep. “Time for a change this lot have had a good trot of 9 years and if the failed flag change was John Key’s legacy time to move on and let another regime have a go.”

          It may be as simple as that or a few attachments may be required? Sold us out to multi national corporations, foreign speculators are changing the kiwi life as we use to know it.

          The list goes on….

          • BM 11.2.2.2.1

            Labour look old, broke and clapped out, that’s where your plan turns to poos.

            Government in waiting, I don’t think so

            • weka 11.2.2.2.1.1

              so do National, which is where your argument turns to poos. NZers havent’ done 4 term govts in many generations, why would they start now?

              • Puckish Rogue

                Because National, though looking a bit frayed around the edges, is still preferable to a Labour/Green coalition

                That will change in the future of course but at the moment theres no real appetite for change (the TPPA is not as big a deal as the left would like to think it is) and, in the voters minds, theres no other opposition worth giving a go to

                • Skinny

                  It looks likely to be Labour and NZF with the Greens happy to sit on the cross benches or vice versa with NZF.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Of course the Greens will take another hit, I mean whats one more when you’ve spent over 25 years in the wilderness

                    “Theres a good Green party you just roll over and lie on your back and let Labour rub your belly once again while Winston laughs at you, because its for the greater good don’t you know”

                    I wouldn’t mind seeing that

                    • weka

                      The Greens are so good they’ve been getting NZ to change without even being in govt yet, and you’ve failed to notice lol

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      weka they get some table scraps thrown to them every now and then and only when it suits National

                      Act and Peter Dunne have had more of an effect on NZ then the Greens ever will until the Greens realise you get more done when in power

                      But hey if you’re happy the Greens staying outside government then that makes you, me, Winston and Helen all in agreement

                    • weka

                      You’re still thinking about things like bills passed and policies. I’m talking about the much bigger influence the Greens have had and your still in denial about it. You can spin all you like, but the success of the GP doesn’t get defined by people like yourself that don’t understand what they do, or value it. Try and remember that when Climate Change gets really uncomfortable for you personally.

                • alwyn

                  I think the real problem for the Labour Party, who must do well if National are displaced, is simply that they are continuously negative.
                  The editorial in the February 13 Listener illustrated their problem.
                  I can’t seem to link to it on-line. Sorry.

                  The editorial was about changing the flag. They start by pointing out that Labour, in a policy they wish to be forgotten, were in favour of a change.
                  As Mallard said before the last election “The time has come for a change and it is right for the issue to be put to the public”.
                  The article then goes on to say “Why has Labour spent the last few months sullenly resisting a proposal that it embraced less than two years ago”.
                  Then they explain it as “Labour is suffering from a severe case of sour grapes”. This is followed by “The party appears incapable of rising above its dislike of the Prime Minister, even fighting him on policies with which it might be expected to agree”
                  They also quote Labour man Nick Leggett that “People vote for hope, optimism and the promise of something better” and that Little should “stop barking at passing cars”.
                  The final part continues “what better time than now for Little to drop the curmudgeonly resistance” and concludes that Labour “need to stop sulking and get on board”

                  Why can’t Labour accept that an idea isn’t automatically unclean because Key supports it? Is the whole of Labour policy to be asking what John Key thinks and then simply spout it back after prefacing the words “We are opposed”.
                  I suspect that if John Key announced a policy of free tertiary education tomorrow Labour would do an immediate about turn and respond that they are opposed to the idea. They are never going to be the Government with their current we hate John Key attitude.

              • BM

                Because there’s no alternative.

                Labour doesn’t look like they’re even remotely ready to govern NZ.

                Combine that with the left government having to consist of three good sized parties and maybe one or two small parties and you’ve got a recipe for instability and chaos.

                How do you even reach an agreement?, let alone pitch this sort of scenario to the NZ voter.

                Until one party on the left makes into the late 30’s, early 40’s the left will always be struggling to win.

                The only chance the left has is if NZ falls completely apart and the voters feels like they’ve got nothing to lose.

                • Skinny

                  “The only chance the left has is if NZ falls completely apart and the voters feels like they’ve got nothing to lose.”

                  Yes we obviously agree on that!

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Do you really think Labour is going to get over 30% in 2017?

                    I totally struggle to envisage a scenario where that is going to happen.

                    I am still picking them coming in at +/-3% of their 2014 result = 22% to 28%.

                    There are Labour supporters I know who are dead sure that Labour will deliver well over 30% next year.

                    Like I said, I cannot visualise it, excepting perhaps Key self destructing on live TV. Calling a snap election with an almost empty glass of scotch in one hand while tugging on the reporters pony tail should do it.

                    But short of that…

                    • Skinny

                      The thought of another 3 years is grim, still plenty of water to go under the bridge CV. From what I saw at Waitangi the usual suspects are still circling. I could have flogged the lot of them out of the party if I had a bull whip.
                      Moving on… I prefer operating as a free agent, have for a while now, quite close with First & Green crews and met a pleasant couple of new hopes within the old party. I still believe the Teflon is coming apart, thanks to the hardcore who are doing the heavy work trying to tear the system down.

              • alwyn

                Primary definition of “many” according to the Merriam/Webster dictionary
                “consisting of or amounting to a large but indefinite number”
                Do you really think 2 is a large number. Really truly?

                The last 4 term Government left office in late 1972, or about 43 years ago. That seems a very short 2 generations to me rather than the grandiose claim of “many generations”.

                • Colonial Viper

                  The Left are still seriously underestimating Key.

                  • alwyn

                    Yes, indeed.
                    Trotter had an interesting post on this some time ago.
                    At least at that time I don’t think he was.

                  • sabine

                    i don’t think that the ‘left’ is underestimating Key.

                    they don’t like him, they abhor him and his posse. I frankly find the man to be as disgusting as one can find a man disgusting, but that is simply the female talking that had to deal many many times with managers like him. They are disgusting horrible little men. They win usually by walking over bodies and abusing everyone around them until either the leave or give up.

                    But CV, the ones that i count more dangerous like Key are people like you.
                    Disillusion, bitter and angry, and just too happy to cry constantly about how those that have wronged you are wrong no matter what they do. No matter that the wrong you are crying about are several decades old, that the people that have wronged you are maybe not even in the party any more or may have been young at the time. No you want a personal apology, back tracking and what nots. YOU want, you you you you you.
                    You, and man and women like you, are the ‘left’ biggest enemy.
                    And you have no alternative to offer, in fact you don’t want an alternative, you just want to beat your chest and whine.
                    But frankly we don’t need your saviour who will never show up, but if we want to stop the sell out of this country, literally and figuratively, than the left will have to work together.
                    And frankly I don’t care if Labour comes in with 30%, or the Green Party or NZ First, as long as the parties of the opposition understand that they each have a role to play in bringing this country back to its people.
                    You however should have a good look in the mirror and ask yourself why you actually pretend to care about the left.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      The Political Left in NZ is dead in the water, Sabine.

                      The biggest party of the “Left” wants to stay in the TPP, thinks that NZ Super is unaffordable, and voted for the bene bashing as well as the anti-terrorism and spying legislation that National put up on behalf of the NSA.

                      No you want a personal apology, back tracking and what nots. YOU want, you you you you you.
                      You, and man and women like you, are the ‘left’ biggest enemy.

                      Then do what the Left has always been good at, witch hunt out the enemy.

                      Have you noted that’s how Labour has always behaved, since the days of John A Lee?

                      And its exactly how Labour treated Cunliffe and Cunliffe’s supporters?

                      NB I don’t want a single thing more from the Labour Party because I know that they are incapable of holding firm to any worthwhile policy long enough to actually deliver it.

                      As for apologies etc. from Labour, who are you kidding. Many in there still think Rogernomics was necessary and the couldn’t even bring themselves to properly congratulate Corbyn on his victory in the UK.

                    • weka

                      The political left blah blah blah. It would help if you stopped talking in steretypes and cliches.

                      Maybe you should join NZF.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Hey weka if you give me some specific examples, maybe I would have some idea of what you are talking about.

            • Skinny 11.2.2.2.1.2

              Now your being silly and quiet surprised you have lowered yourself to turn to kaka’s that is abit childish I must say.

              Anyway before you go have your forced afternoon nap answering your flippant opinion. In the end the electorate just want the incumbent gone burger, having finally woken up to the deceitful lies and awful mismanagement of our economy.

              • alwyn

                “In the end the electorate just want the incumbent gone burger, having finally woken up”
                Do you actually think the electorate feels that way Skinny or is it just you and your friends. There doesn’t seem to be any such feeling being exhibited in the polls.

                • Skinny

                  Alwyn I think you know about the little number I done the other week, deliberately planned for the day after the big anti TPPA protest in Auckland. My debriefing analysis showed Peters and to a lesser degree Labour and Greens gained some shift support, both their speakers spoke very well too.

                  Over 100,000 (now 160.000)) watched either live or afterwards on mainly the NZH fb feed, tho other media like tv1news were there but i never watched we were celebrating out for dinner. A truck load of comments and thousands of shares of the video. There were many comments who had voted National they were openly saying they had lost their vote, most were saying Winston was getting their viote next year, some it was the Greens or Labour. Looking at their profiles and friends suggested they were genuine. Crude but good enough as a guide. It will still up if you want to go look, I have moved on to the next little number planned in my head.

                  • alwyn

                    I assume that NZH fb means FaceBook.
                    From a link weka posted the other day it appears that to look at it you need a FaceBook persona.
                    That I will not do. I dislike FaceBooks mode of operation and refuse to have anything to do with it.
                    If I’ve interpreted you wrongly, or the bit about a persona on FB, or indeed if you published elsewhere please let me know. Otherwise I will have to give it a miss.

                    • Skinny

                      Just for you alwyn since you make a stand against the ever worsening Face Book.
                      If you use a search engine type Politicians voice concern over TPP at rally NZ Heard, this new item and a couple of video clips should be on there. I can not cut and paste on here for some reason.

  11. Draco T Bastard 12

    You know how the right-wing have always told us that opening up more land for housing would lower prices?
    Well, it seems that that doesn’t work:

    The second is that greenfield land supply is not necessarily a solution for house price inflation. Tauranga is less than one-tenth the size of Auckland and its house prices are already high relative to local incomes. Adding greenfield land supply hasn’t prevented or reversed previous price increases. In larger cities, where fringe locations are much less of a substitute for desirable central locations, it’s likely to be even less effective.

    The right-wing: Wrong by ideology.

    • Sabine 12.1

      well, if you think about it terms of ‘what comes around goes around’ what else was to be expected.

      If, a big IF, cashed up Aucklanders are moving to Tauranga and other such nice places to buy there (now, that even with all the money they received from selling their property in AKL, that they can’t afford a property in Auckland anymore) they are running up prices in that market as they come with Cash that no one in Tauranga has.

      And the same happens in other places. So essentially the housing crisis is carried from one town to the next, leaving ordinary citizens that only want to buy a house to live in out of a chance to ever buy, and leaving more and more properties waiting for that cashed up speculator to buy. Why sell your house, if keeping it empty will increase its value. Heck, why work 🙂

      Anyone who could not see this happening needs to adjust their glasses, as that was a consequence quite a few of us have warned of.

    • BM 12.2

      Tauranga is the Florida of NZ.

      You get old, sell up and move to Tauranga, the weather is better and it’s not that far from Auckland.

      Tauranga will always be in demand.

  12. lprent 13

    Apologies about the loss of the mobile version. Looks like it turned off on Friday.

    There was an update to wp-touch mobile theme that had a fix in it to deal with multi-site systems like The Standard (even though we have never used it in public). By the look of it, it deactivated the local website activation that was on.

    I haven’t spent much time on the site for a few days, and none at all on mobile so I didn’t notice (bad Lynn…)

    😈

    • BM 13.1

      Just in case you’re interested the new Microsoft Edge browser is having terrible issues with caching.
      Every link you click on serves a cached version, you then have to reload the page to get the latest version.

      • lprent 13.1.1

        Ummm. Ok I will try it out somehow.

        What the browsers are meant to do is to cache pages for a set period of time. But on a refresh, they are meant to request the page passing details of their cached version. If it is up to date, then the server returns just use that again. If it isn’t, then it returns a freshly generated page. There is a certain amount of caching going on at all sides. It is how the caching is handled that will be at fault.

        It sounds like it is over interpreting the caching hints being passed to it and never bothering to go back to the server. In which case I probably need to tell edge never to cache for

        • BM 13.1.1.1

          No worries, I use chrome for 99% of my internetting, I’d just upgraded to windows 10 and I thought I’d give the edge browser a go

  13. Puckish Rogue 14

    https://garethsworld.com/blog/economics/the-beach-the-monkey-and-rationality/

    With this level of hubris he really should run for parliament

    • lprent 14.1

      He really doesn’t need to descend to that level (who does). He has neither the push to duty that a few have in that position nor the blatant egoistical need to be at the centre of attention nor the lust for power nor the rent grabbing of some of the political professionals.

      It is quite apparent that he just has an arrogant regard for his own abilities and he has a track record that he values to back it up. I don’t think that he really gives a shit about what you and other members of the tall poppy brigade like you think.

      Why would he bother to become an MP? It’d constrain his ability to say what he thinks.

      • Puckish Rogue 14.1.1

        He has neither the push to duty that a few have in that position nor the blatant egoistical need to be at the centre of attention nor the lust for power nor the rent grabbing of some of the political professionals

        – Yes hes a shrinking violet who avoids the limelight

        It is quite apparent that he just has an arrogant regard for his own abilities and he has a track record that he values to back it up. I don’t think that he really gives a shit about what you and other members of the tall poppy brigade like you think.

        – I’m a member of the tall poppy brigade because I think hes spinning like a top?

        Why would he bother to become an MP? It’d constrain his ability to say what he thinks.

        – Might help reign in some of his ideas

        • greywarshark 14.1.1.1

          Might help reign in some of his ideas.
          Sort of an oxymoron as that reign is royal not the horse-controlling kind. Probably a very apt choice of words PR.

    • McFlock 14.2

      Well, at least it was an interesting explanation of things from his point of view.

      I think his assessment is flawed, though: as a commenter pointed out, the imperfect information distributed through the “crowd” was simply that his priority was personal advantage in access, rather than public access.

      But the other problem is that he’s assuming that minimising the purchase price is even a priority for the people who donated (who weren’t him). I didn’t donate to that campaign (because fundage), but I do donate on occasion. When I do, my attitude is that the money is sunk – I’m not looking for any return. So really, if they overpay to ensure public ownership, who gives a damn? Any overpayment is simply insurance against a gazumper at the post.

  14. Tomorrow 9:10 AM I will be on Aaron’s Raglan Radio morning show.

    We will be talking about the Global banking crisis, the Kiwi saver scam/scheme and the “Open bank resolution” which enables banks to confiscate deposits from small banking depositors if and when a bank fails and which was accepted by New Zealand in 2013.

    http://www.raglanradio.com/index.php/listen/listen-live

  15. Sabine 16

    Rock Star Economy
    Surplus
    Tax Cuts 2017
    4th term National Party led rationing of vital service – wow it sounds like we are “back to the USSR” to me 🙂

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/kpmg-early-edition/opinion/rachel-smalley-no-spin-can-hide-health-sector-cuts/

    Quote: “Perhaps you’ve had an experience in our health system recently?

    I know a man who sat in a hospital some 18 months ago. He spent a week sitting in a ward, a man in his 40s, with a severely broken leg. It was a mess. And I think it took 8 days for him to have surgery. Short-staffed. Not enough operating theatre space anyway. And so he fasted every day until early afternoon, and then they told him he wouldn’t have surgery that day. Every day. For 8 days.

    Our health needs aren’t reducing, they’re increasing. The only way to make cuts for many DHBs will be to staff.

    We’re struggling with issues of unmet need, we’re struggling with the issues triggered by the diabetes and obesity epidemics — and so I really feel for our health workers right now.”

  16. fender 17

    Boo hoo, the bully suggests he’s being bullied

  17. fender 18

    boo hoo, the bully Slater seems to be suggesting he is being bullied

  18. Morrissey 19

    A British politician’s outrageous lies are given pride
    of place in a BBC report; why does TVNZ go along with this farce?

    Television One News, Tuesday 16 February 2016

    There is a shameful history of disinformation and black propaganda— i.e., outright lies —by the Americans, the French, the Saudis, the Israelis and the British in the Middle East; most infamously, after the U.S.-U.K. ally Saddam Hussein of Iraq used poison gas to kill thousands of Kurdish civilians in Halabja in 1988, the United States blamed Iran for the massacre. More recently, the scofflaw Obama regime tried to blame the Syrian government for using chemical weapons which were actually used by the Al-Qaeda-affiliated “rebels” backed by the United States and Britain.

    It is by no means reliable, and it is quite possibly a fabrication, but one of the major stories in today’s news is of the bombing of two Syrian hospitals by Russia. Anyone familiar with Television One’s dire, face-pulling, unfunny-joke-cracking, smirking, fist-pumping “news team” will not have been at all surprised to see that they decided to simply buy into the propaganda, without making even a gesture of due diligence.

    Their “report” of the hospital bombings was not by any credible, independent, respected journalist of the stature of, say, New Zealand’s world-renowned Jon Stephenson. Instead, they went for one James Robbins, yet another robotic product of the BBC’s production line of robotic mediocrity; his “report” of the bombings was nothing more than a highly loaded, partisan denunciation of Britain’s official enemy, Russia. It was so lacking in any sense of balance, so lacking even the slightest sense of skepticism, it might as well have been written by someone at the Foreign Office. Farcically, but appropriately for this Pythonesque effort, Robbins’ “report” ended with a harried-looking British Foreign Secretary Phillip Hammond, who wearily reiterated his patently false talking points: “Russia could stop this tomorrow, if it started bombing terrorists and stopped bombing the moderate opposition.”

    Never, not even during the era of its reprehensibly biased reporting on Ireland in the 1980s under Thatcher’s draconian restrictions, has the BBC been more politically controlled, nor has it has it ever been more untrustworthy than it is now. That TVNZ routinely goes to the BBC, when it is so discredited, and so patently an arm of the British state, is depressing beyond measure.

    At the end of this deplorable little propaganda exercise, Simon Dallow read a few closing remarks from his script, his eyes swiveled hard to the right in an apparent attempt to indicate moral disapproval of the evil bastards who bomb hospitals. Chiming in a few seconds later was Wendy “Fist Pumper” Petrie, who obviously felt obliged to follow suit and indicate her own sense of moral outrage at those dastardly Russians; she did this by pausing meaningfully and looking as doleful as she could, before moving on to the next item.

    • Anne 19.1

      Yes, I’ve seen that little post-item ‘act’ by the Dallow/Petrie coupling on numerous occasions.

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