I presume Shearer has been all over the news, roundly condemning John Key for terrorising kiwis with his bullshit stories and challenging him to put up or shut up.
It’s there. But it’s pretty much – we need a full inquiry first. And he and Key have been gazumped by the explosions at the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Awful of course. And extensive injuries, deaths.
But if Key tries to link it to NZ fantasy WMDs, Laila Harre happened to be running in the marathon and should get some air time.
Pete George is the first (I think) to explicitly say that Boston needs to be part of the GCSB debate. Apparently he only just realised that terrorists exist or something.
Are you really that ignorant about NZ’s technology companies, particularly electronics and software? Are you really that ignorant about some of the research going on in our universities. Turn down the confirmation bias and wake up.
Which research in particular? I don’t know much about private companies, but I have a fair idea about what happens in universities. The most worrying stuff coming out of them is the rubbish churned out by de Freitas.
If you’re referring to my 50% claim, the answer is No… ghostrider. I base it on the approx. 50% figure who voted for NAct and other right wing parties at the last election.
Uninformed can be a genuine case of someone not being in a position to know about some things and is not necessarily something of which to be ashamed. Ignorance in my book applies to individuals who have been provided with the prerequisites (eg. an education) to keep themselves informed but are too lazy to bother. They should be ashamed.
Could have been improved by: emphasising more that John Key was reaching out for convenient ways to hide from the spotlight, and pushing back against the interviewer’s suggestion that it was a Labour Government law at fault.
Yes CV “it was a Labour Government law at fault.” and highlight that in 2003 there was strong crossparty support. National voted for it and I bet there are some clever researchers who would find records of National MP speakers of the day who re-enforced the “Not for Spying on NZers line.”
It’s good that he’s there but all I heard was “blah blah inquiry blah blah another inquiry”, and I’m already interested so god only knows what it sounds like to a more casual listener. Something like Charlie Brown’s parents I imagine,
When Key pulls shit like “WMDs under the bed” it needs to be smacked down right away. Let kiwis know that their instincts are correct, their PM is lying to them, and if it were us in govt we wouldn’t be trying to frighten them to cover up lies and corruption.
It’s about challenging the narrative itself, not buying into it and arguing the detail.
re Boston; “no ‘chatter’ intercepted before or after detonation events by intelligence”
The Herald- “You Be The Judge” features a new low bench-mark facing the rising tide of the blogosphere while a woman who uses her credit card to message an “unknown’ face-book friend is fleeced for $300 as parents pay Yule’s pumped up Porse child-care fees there is a big squeeze on for Auckland school as the Ministry is unprepared for demographics, demographics, demographics; there goes the neighbourhood property values vows North Korea.
a reflection from my nurse friend; frankly, she is getting tired of the crap this government and their allies are dumping on the young she nurtures; now they’ve been advised, AraTaiohi, of the additional impacts the Starting Out Wage, increasing youth unemployment rates, ongoing job cuts, drought and effects on grocery prices are going to have on rangatahi; further-more, even a patient dyslexic like her can see that these political / economic shifts by TPTB are out of fear of the concessions to income / lifestyles / assets the pricks are anticipating from rapid social change.(she tends to focus on old-white-men, yet that is a bit of a generalization).
Nope, Labour isn’t the Government for a few months yet. Losing personal confidence, losing public confidence, and now losing one his cleverer MP’s. Been a bad few weeks for Dunnokeyo.
There is something not quite right in a sitting Parliamentarian applying for a significant public service job and getting it, and then quitting the House to take up that job. (Of course, if you are yuckyoil or his types like the hoots, the ape, the goose or craigm, then all is fine and acceptable … or it’s all Labour’s fault.)
All parties (hello, Shearer?) must commit to making sure this does not happen in this case and also that it never happens again. If parliamentary conventions and Cabinet Manual will not draw a clear bright line on this, then bloody pass a law to prohibit such repugnant appointments.
“The Fall enslaves us all
Matthias=Truth
synthetic police
an illusion, no matter how convincing,
is still an illusion
Migrant workers
what is there to say? You’re from The Colony,
he’s from the UFB
welcome, operating systems activated
I met a woman, she opened my mind,
it’s the resistance we should be fighting for
they want to replace the colonists with synthetics
the past is a construct of the mind
the heart wants to live in the present.”
Gosh the USA gets to be top of the list of today’s Celebrity Countries AGAIN. They seem to manage to dominate the news almost every day. For years anything rather strange brought the response ‘That must have happened in the USA’. It’s just the same now except more frequent and the happenings reported are more worrying because of their global effect.
Our country wants to follow the lead of the USA, the ‘world’s super power’ but when you look at it the question arises about this man-made wonder country, Is that all there is?’ to hope for in our civilisation.
Perhaps it would be more rational to stop trying for a noble, happy civilisation and follow the words of a song by Peggie Lee, a great singer – “Is that all there is, then let’s keep dancing!’ Try Fever too.
interesting view prism; I too was fascinated, not, that across all the Sky news channels there was simultaneous marathon coverage for the casualties of a US city, yet, do we see the same expose of Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Gaza, shall I go on (rhet. obviously)
and then, and then, despite the apparent absence of intell, the US have scrambled in NY, Washington and L.A. (Chicago already blown away).
Two Things; we are not supporters of Harre, and even Rachel Smalley seemed to be struggling over the coverage; we despair, we honestly despair.
Yet, we may see more street protests before the year is out
been following her development on TDB; just not our cup-of-tea politically, sorry to say, though that is not to say she is an excellent advocate on many issues personal to her. Hey, the ghost is only human.
Well, a great day for the opposition just got better! After working together on the EPMU’s manufacturing enquiry, we now have a further sign of what the next Government is going to look like:
David Shearer (via fb):
“This Thursday at noon Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman and I will hold a joint press conference to unveil policies to bring down power prices and give Kiwi households some financial relief.”
This is more like it, Labour and te Greens! Give the public something solid to aspire for, give them a reason to vote. Niiiice!
Interesting that Shearer chose not to signal 24 hours ago that this press conference was coming. I don’t think that was the correct strategy – a build up to today’s event would have been superior IMO.
However, I will be impressed if Labour and the Greens come out with something solid and strong.
Yeah, I don’t get the idea to not announce it yesterday. Guess they wanted to be in the news all this week:
Monday: Labour gonna do something
Tuesday: Labour set date for when they gonna tell us
Wednesday: Speculation about what Labour gonna do
Thursday: Announcement of what Labour gonna do
Friday: Analysis of what Labour gonna do
well, at least he got a move on; yesterday it was “not something we have the details on, will be working…yadda yadda.” maybe he’s got a bomb under him!
What a shock for people with family and friends n Boston, and of course anywhere. A NZ interviewed who supports running as a great sport for bringing people together was sad and emotional about this injury producing and murderous attack.
and if greater coverage [i.e. truth] was ever broadcast in the US media about the slaughter of innocents in other countries, largely perpetrated by the US, perhaps the reaction in the US would mean the US would be less likely to be bombed in the first place.
Domestic attackers are just as likely to use foreign policy as a catalyst for a terror event. This is highlighted throughout numerous publications especially in those produced by the Department of Homeland Security.
And you know that as i am very confident you have commented on it in the past, so what was the point of your comment?
I went for a coffee at a local watering hole this morning: sitting near to the till….a very large gentleman walked by checked proceedings, and stood outside on alert. Following him to the till, with his wife was our Prime Minister, who then paid the bill. Probably not on the taxpayer, he took no receipt that I saw.
I observed, just another dull suit, an average middle aged guy buying breakfast with his lady. So ordinary. We all give him s**t here, but I had no impulse to intrude and do it publicly.
Gave me to reflecting that despite the c**p that goes on we cant be too bad a place when our PM can walk down the road…if I had the job (heaven forbid) I would not want to have the security dude present often. And we are small enough for our representatives to be close enough to touch.
On the other hand, I saw Helen Clark, Muldoon, and Bolger a number of times with no apparent security at all.
As to intruding on them in public, I did stand in front of Roger Douglas once and tell my dog that if she knew what scum he was, she’d bite him. The people with him laughed. He didn’t.
With Key, I’d probably just walk out of the watering hole. Depending on my mood, I might say something. I really have no desire to find out.
And the Waco siege ended on Patriots Day – another big event the wing-nuts get excited about. I think a lone wolf ‘patriot’ wil be the culprit. Much more likely than islamic terrorists at this stage.
When you say “lone wolf patriot” I assume you mean a lone wolf closely connected to several networks of other lone wolves with similar political views.
Unless of course, we want to use this as an excuse to demolish civil liberties and press freedom, in which case its definitely a whole networked foreign funded conspiracy.
Is there more to come @ Question Time today re the Appointment of Ian Fletcher?
10. GRANT ROBERTSON to the Prime Minister: What role, if any, did he play in recommending the appointment of Ian Fletcher as Director of the Government Communications Security Bureau?
They like to see everyone worshipping at the same altar. It shakes their fragile faith in the proscribed ceremony if some people choose not to participate on bended knee. You know, like large numbers of nurses and doctors choosing not to get the flu jab every year.
Its a question which won’t be answered by anything other than the Herd Immunity response!
Which is of course, not an answer.
That said, many people are still comfortable with forced medication through the water supply, and have been fooled into believing that hydrofluorosilicic acid is safe to ingest, so sure, force vaccinate everyone, or ban/ridicule those who don’t, comply
Only serves to illustrate how much damage the hydrofluorosilicic acid as done!
Next thing you know, you’ll be warning us against dihydrogen monoxide, the greatest industrial chemical coverup ever by none other than Barrack Hussein Obama.
Its a toxic by-product which is procured primarily from the mining, and fertilizer industries, sold by counties such as China, who ban it from their own water supply, but yet dumped into the supplies elsewhere.
Quite a scheme given the costs involved to dispose of the poison otherwise, instead, being paid and have someone take it off your hands, genius!
What are you trying to compare water with poison for?
What you have done, is announce how silly you are though, BRAVO!
Edit: Many parts of NZ, and the world do not have flouride in the water, in fact those which do are in the minority by some margin these days.
Sensible knowledgable nations, such as found in Scandanavia, laugh when the topic comes up, they moved past the discussion long ago!
Seems like you may have had more than your share pal!
Great come back from Lanthanide/NickS – Standing Ovation!
Lanthanide, try answering the question I asked you, instead of the nonsense you spouted above!
Oh noes, it has acid in the name, it must be bad!
Next thing you know, you’ll be warning us against dihydrogen monoxide, the greatest industrial chemical coverup ever by none other than Barrack Hussein Obama.
What are you trying to compare water with poison for?
Awww – Nicky boy, come on fella you can do better than that!
Generally speaking, while your comments are that of someone with little real experience, they pack more content than those of Lanthanide, who actually manages to say SFA most the time, so the use of a face, in response by him is about what I would expect.
I would expect something better from you though, even if its just some rage fuelled abusive rant, a clue-bat here, a derp or two there….come on bro, get stuck in my comment above.
Don’t put yourself in the same space as Lanthanide, you’re better than that…
Because vaccines are never 100% effective. Your child could still get the illness and have mild symptoms and pass it on to others, such as members of the family, which could potentially be life threatening depending on the disease we’re talking about.
There are many cases where vaccines haven’t worked properly and some where they haven’t worked at all… Couple that fact with the documented cases of people having adverse reactions, and there’s no doubt that vaccination should be a personal choice, not forced by the state.
“There’s a lot of documented cases where people without vaccinations have had adverse reactions, too.”
this comment is the equivalent of poking out your tongue and going ‘nah nah nah pffft pfft pffft’
those you refer to have not had an adverse reaction, though they may have had a natural and perfectly normal illness.
If the choice only endangered your own kid, the issue would be more clear cut. Failing to vaccinate a child that would not high risk for adverse reactions would just be negligent parenting, not public endangerment.
Nope. But nor am I sure that my vaccinations all worked 100%. I’d hate to get seriously ill just because some nutbar decided that they were afraid their little precious would catch autism.
Yes seriously, and dude your thinking is flawed, as well as obviously selfish.
Try this – I am neither pro, nor anti vaccination, but I am pro choice!
If that means some people get sick and/or possibly die, including myself, then so be it, free people have some choices……
The day when forced vaccination comes to be, is the day people who share your position, will be wishing they had never conjured such a thought, let alone aired it in public!
Be careful what your ego wishes for, cos it will come with a large portion what you fear most attached, most likely taking away what you value most!
In terms of relative risk though, you’ve got a much higher chance of catching measles, mumps or rubella and suffering serious side effects (or death) than you are to suffer serious side effects from the MMR jab.
And frankly, a lot the “research” people end up doing is via anti-vaccination sites and due to lacking science educations, they’ll usually not be able to spot the huge fucking flaws in the anti-vaccination bullshit. Or due to social connections, will buy the bullshit because someone they trust believes it. Thus there’s serious ethical reasons regarding leaving the decision up to parents and due to usual human behaviour, trying to educate people will hit a brick wall. As the more popular (at the public level) something wrong is, the harder it is to get people to realise it’s wrong.
I would be interested in seeing this research that says the relative risk is low you’re refering to NickS, because the amount of market removals for vaccines are now higher than any other drug class. That indicates that vaccines are one the least safest prescription drugs available.
You can only argue that the relative risk is low if you actually know the amount of adverse reactions compared to the likelihood of infection… I presume you can link to that information to support your argument?
Nah vaccines are in a super special class all by themselves, the lower the chance of infection the more important it is that everyone has to have it (to keep it that way etc.)
Vaccines shouldn’t be compared to other recalled drugs because they’re designed to prevent instead of cure illnesses? Not a very robust argument there CV, especially considering that vaccines have been shown to lower people’s immunity thus increasing susceptibility to various other infections.
Unfortunately there’s a percentage of people who have an adverse reaction to vaccination, with there being some documented cases of people dying. Therefore individuals (especially those with strong constitutions) shouldn’t be forced into having vaccinations.
The less probable actual benefit a vaccine can convey to you and your children, the more you should unzip your trousers and take your shot like a man, for King and Country you know.
Here’s an idea, how about you bother actually doing some research into the science for once? Especially as you live in CHCH and so have a very well stocked University Library, filled full of textbooks that’s open fairly late most weekdays. Or you could bother checking science blogs covering vaccines and how they work to gain basic functional knowledge…
What the fuck can they pretend to tell me about how much they think they know about how the human immune system works. They can’t even sort out a common case of psoriasis.
What the fuck can they pretend to tell me about how much they think they know about how the human immune system works. They can’t even sort out a common case of psoriasis.
Judging by your reply, am I to assume that you’re being a bit facetious there CV? Apparently you don’t even have basic functional knowledge… Didn’t get your shots for that eh?
Somehow I don’t think the Maori King (New Zealands only King) would advocate for forced vaccination… Besides, being that vaccines have also been shown to cause sterility in some patients, I plan to continue manning up so to speak by not being vaccinated.
Basically, there is a long list of drugs and vaccinations out there which were “proven safe and effective” (and had people like NickS assure us of that fact) then ended up pulled off the market just a few years later because when actually used on real people in real circumstances, they proved themselves much less than safe or effective.
For that reason alone, compulsion to undertake any treatment should be vigorously ruled out.
And remember, there is only one certain risk free beneficiary from every dose of drug or vaccine sold. Big Pharma.
In the cases of many of those withdrawn drugs, there were very significant failures by the drug companies to act in good faith and do the fucking population studies properly, or worse yet, falsified data. Or in some rarer cases, issues weren’t noticed due to the fact the sample sizes used for drug trails are unable to pick up all possible phenotypes, so issues pop up later during monitoring. Publication of those results, then results in withdrawl, lawsuits and laws being brought to cluebat.
And it should be fairly fucking obvious I do not support bullshitting by the drug companies.
One thing you’re failing to to do is actually sanity check your assumptions. Each vaccine released is usually chemically different to another vaccine, even for those targeting the same disease. Often as ongoing research into how each vaccine works and monitoring of pathogens can provide better antigens to target, higher levels of immune respone or safer vaccines, such as using protein fragments instead of heat treated viral particles or bacteria. Thus assuming withdrawl of multiple vaccines = all vaccines are dodgy is a rather dubious line of reasoning.
As for risks, I’m going to be lazy (if you want more, you need to do teh research):
How serious is the disease?
Measles itself is unpleasant, but the complications are dangerous. Six to 20 percent of the people who get the disease will get an ear infection, diarrhea, or even pneumonia. One out of 1000 people with measles will develop inflammation of the brain, and about one out of 1000 will die.
The number of febrile seizures attributable to the administration of DTP and MMR vaccines was estimated to be 6 to 9 and 25 to 34 per 100,000 children, respectively. As compared with other children with febrile seizures that were not associated with vaccination, the children who had febrile seizures after vaccination were not found to be at higher risk for subsequent seizures or neurodevelopmental disabilities.
Furthermore MMR vaccine has undergone very extensive safety studies due to the scientific fraud Wakefield committed, as well as being improved, of which this safety information is easy available if you know the basics of science researching. i.e. you need to look at the bloody science published, grasp it and integrate it into a cohesive web that links to understanding how vaccines work, complications therein and science101. And citation records are a boon to hunting down newer work.
Instead of assuming anti-vaccine sites have the same equivalence as published research like so many people mistakenly do. Which I blame media’s “two sides” meme for…
One thing you’re failing to to do is actually sanity check your assumptions.
I’m not making assumptions, I’m stating facts… Facts that you seem incapable of properly comprehending NickS. For instance, you’ve linked to a study about just two vaccines that cause an increased risk of seizures… It concludes:
There are significantly elevated risks of febrile seizures after receipt of DTP vaccine or MMR vaccine, but these risks do not appear to be associated with any long-term, adverse consequences.
That doesn’t counter the fact that the amount of market removals for vaccines are higher than any other drug class.
all vaccines are dodgy is a rather dubious line of reasoning.
I haven’t said all vaccines are dubious, I’ve said some are and the amount of recalled vaccines outnumber any other drug on the market. That would indicated that they’re more dangerous than the companies producing them claim.
I’m still interested in seeing this research that says the risk from all vaccines is relatively low NickS?
And you’ve failed to actually look at the rate of those reactions and contrast them against measles.
And you’ve conviently ignored the rather clear message I made about not lumping in all vaccines.
As for the GBI report, it’s stuck behind a hideously overpriced paywall and so I can’t see what they’ve done vis their definitions, I can’t see their methodology, I don’t know if they’re grouping immunoglobins and vaccines and I have no idea about the trustworthiness of it compared to a science journal. Thus any info there is stuck in limbo. In otherwords, go hunting for something I can actually get some useful traction on.
Oh lordy:
That would indicated that they’re more dangerous than the companies producing them claim.
Your reading comprehension, brush up on it. And while I could have worded that argument to be a bit more clearer, you’re making assumptions about safety of all on the grounds of a limited window and lack of fucking reasons for recalls of specific vaccines. For which the reasoning of that paragraph still very much applies.
Heck, I doubt seriously if you have any idea about the shear number of drug candidates that don’t make it every decade after showing potential function in stage one trials…
I have no idea about the trustworthiness of it compared to a science journal.
Who’s making assumptions now? Good luck arguing against a scientific study NickS.
you’re making assumptions about safety of all on the grounds of a limited window…
What assumptions can I make when the study conducted into the amount of recalled drugs states:
GBI Research’s report, “Regulatory Intelligence on Biologics Recalls– Immunoglobulins and Vaccines are Involved in More Recalls than Other Drug Classes”, provides in-depth analysis of biologics recalls issued or reported with the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and its constituent agencies. The report analyzes biologics recalls on the basis of the reason for recall, therapy area, drug class, dosage forms and the recalling company, on a year-to-year basis from 2007–2010.
You should perhaps just admit that you were wrong NickS.
lack of fucking reasons for recalls of specific vaccines.
Are you saying that one drug class is more likely to be mislabeled than another, and therefore that’s the reason immunoglobulins and vaccines are the most recalled drug class?
One would assume that mislabeling would be relatively equalized across all drug classes, and that immunoglobulins and vaccines are more likely to be recalled because on average they’re more dangerous!
go hunting for something I can actually get some useful traction on.
I’ve linked to a synopsis of a study that supports my argument… If you want further proof that I’m correct, go look for it yourself.
Heck, I doubt seriously if you have any idea…
I doubt anybody would have any idea about what you’re arguing NickS, especially when you write things like this:
…about the shear [sic] number of drug candidates that don’t make it every decade.
Perhaps you should heed your own advice and brush up on some reading comprehension skills yourself.
Anyhow, a quick fisking of the FDA data set: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/Recalls/default.htm turns up a few things. In particular, H1N1 vaccines had high recall rates, primarily due to manufacturing stuff ups (sterility, wrong materials, use by dates), leading to a large spike in recalls. Compared to the previous two years however, total vaccine recalls where 3, of which two occurred in 2009 for H1N1 vaccines.
Most importantly, none of this recalls where for adverse reactions, rather they were recalled due to the three above reasons + antigen levels or strength. Which does frankly undermine your safety angle. Furthermore the recalls happened fairly quickly.
A similar pattern appears from scanning the drug recalls, with most recalls being not adverse reaction based, but rather manufacturing issues (contamination, sterility, i.e. mold).
Thus, I suggest that one actually bothers doing a bit more indepth research beyond a somewhat problematic GBI report that’s more fluff than anything important.
Recommended that you use a tabbed browser, with multiple opened windows and regular checking of wikipedia, which will oft have vaccine stuff on it due to anti-vaccine stupidity being cluebatted. Otherwise there’s plenty of science-based blog posts out there.
The information is there, you just need to hunt for it. Preferably not on crank sites (ye shallth know them by their contradictions and science101 failures) except for checking out the rather disturbing things some people believe. However a trigger warning applies for the likes of whale.to and friends due to extremely high levels of batshit insanity contained within them and it is not recommended that you read the comments for the sake of your continued sanity.
Jackal, that article specifically refers to “Biologics – Immunoglobulins and Vaccines”.
That’s not vaccines as such, that’s a specific class of vaccine, therapeutic, not preventative vaccine.
Today, vaccines are considered prophylactic because they are given to healthy people to prevent a disease — diphtheria, influenza, polio, and malaria, to name a few. But many, if not most, of the new biologic vaccines being developed are considered therapeutic because they are given after a person has contracted an infection, such as HIV, or has a chronic disease, such as certain cancers.
You can’t really use these as an argument against the childhood immunisation schedule, which is a schedule of preventative vaccines. Biologics are in a completely different league and not for mass population disease prevention.
Actually, vaccines are lumped with biologics by the FDA in it’s recall data. Mainly as they’ve got low rates of recall and are biological in orgin. Ranging from live cells/viruses, dead cells/viruses, whole proteins and at teh bottom protein fragments.
Ah – thanks. Still, he can’t use preventative vaccines, alongside other biologics as an argument against the safety of preventative vaccines. The categories need to be split.
It holds that preventative vaccines recall rates are not because of safety of the vaccine. In the list FDA recalls list you’ve linked to there are manufacturing issues, not vaccine safety issues, that prompt recalls.
because the amount of market removals for vaccines are now higher than any other drug class. That indicates that vaccines are one the least safest prescription drugs available.
[citation needed]
Also – one of the more problematic issues with designing vaccines is that sometimes the sample sizes you use to test for efficacy and safety aren’t large enough. So often when vaccines are removed it’s to do with them failing to trigger immune responses significant enough to trigger long term immunity or having higher predicted rates of side effects.
Thus, in order to say anything about “safety” you actually have to fucking bother to look at why a vaccine was pulled. Rather than assuming like you do above that the total number of vaccines pulled were pulled for safety reasons. Furthermore I suspect you may be adding vaccines which are in development to your list, which like drug development, often runs into issues in later stages that prevents release into the market. HIV vaccines for example often fail with great fanfare in the media…
“why are people so afraid of unvaccinated children being at school with them?”
Parents may be unclear about how vaccination protection works, and some may be rather emotional about unvaccinated children, but health and education officials are worried about unvaccinated children infecting other unvaccinated (or immune compromised children) sparking a public health crisis and disruption in education. This health crisis and disruption is more severe as the higher the number of unvaccinated children. Take a look a the current measles outbreak in Wales for an example.
we know that around 6,000 children in the Swansea area alone are still not fully vaccinated against measles, and we cannot be confident that the outbreak will not continue to grow with so many children still at risk from this very contagious and potentially fatal disease.”
Forget education its mainly about making money and workers who stay home and take sick days to look after unwell kids cost businesses and the economy money.
sticks and stones may break their bones, yet whips and chains excite them; some pretty tense apprehensions to come over Boston; funny if it turned about to be an North Korean jihadist funded by the aryan liberation front.
I don’t disagree that it’s also about workers taking time off, I disagree on the ‘mainly’ angle.
A public health crisis caused by a measles epidemic is enormously expensive, dangerous and disruptive. Take you’re pick, depending on your level of cynicism, about the main reason for health authorities advocating vaccinations, but there are a lot of parents in Wales doing mea culpas right now.
And what were the odds ratio between vaccinated and unvaccinated kiddies getting sick?
Were vaccinated kiddies really 50x or 100x less likely to fall sick than unvaccinated kiddies. Or only 20x or 10x or 5x or 3x.
Wouldn’t you feel shit if you were a parent who made your kiddies take all their vaccines and they fell sick anyway. The empiricists would say we have no idea why but just your bad luck then I suppose.
By the Elder Things you can be fucking stupid sometimes.
It all comes down to biochemistry, i.e. everything is chemical and chemical interactions are messy and have these things called “probabilities” involved and so despite good environmental conditions, a interaction can go wrong. Scale this thinking up to the biochemistry of immunological memory* and you get multiple avenues for failure even with well designed vaccines even more so when taking into account biological variance. Apply population thinking and volia, an explanation becomes readily apparent.
Details of which can be found in a variety of textbooks dealing with biochemistry, cell biology and immunology. So go edumacate yourself.
______________________________________________________
*gene-expression, antigen binding, protein-protein interactions, mutations, the list is huge once you get into the fine details)
Ye gads, how hard is it for you to fucking think? My short explanation relies heavily on how biochemical systems interact within an organism at multiple levels. So I can only assume you lack even a rudimentary background in basic organism to cell biology…
Fuck, even assuming that I’m using a machine analogy is an act of grand stupidity. So in future, try sanity checking your assumptions first…
had to take a few long slow breaths before posting this as the first draft of the comment was not fit for public disclosure.
I cannot describe the sickening hatred I currently wish to express towards the New Zealand Herald upon seeing this despicable piece of bile. Despite recent attempts of pure gutter-journalism in NZ MSM, this is perhaps the lowest point in the history of New Zealand ‘journalism’ and the associated global publication of this vile ‘event’ can do nothing but foster hate and bigotry. I do not think i am overstating it to say in many minds this will forever tarnish the reputation of New Zealand media.
I would have given the defendant in Case 1, less time I think – but I would like to know what the verbal argument was about at the pub leading up to the incident.
Case 2, why didn’t her husband sign off on home detention, so she does community service instead – seems reasonable enough.
“I think its an interesting exercise.” thank you for confirming all of my fears as to the type of person that would be attracted to this sort of ugliness.
After a constant barrage of pro gay marriage propaganda from the NZ Herald it has finally published a great piece defending marriage – but the Granny does then give another pro gay “marriage” peddler an unchallenged right of reply.
Rex Ahdar presents an excellent argument for protecting marriage:
” Two visions of marriage confront us. The conjugal model says that marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman. The partnership model says marriage is a contract between committed, loving couples.”
While the pro gay Clements avoids the issue, carrying on emotionally about being “grossly offended” by Ahdar and serving up the predictable mawkish “Love love love!” non argument.
“To redefine marriage (to allow same-sex partners) is to abolish it. Partnership marriage does not keep the existing institution and simply allow more persons to join it. No, it eviscerates it and substitutes a new concept.”
I love ignorant, arrogant righties (as much as love those on the left, anti-GMO nuts be nasty), they’re so fun to cluebat :3
At it’s simplest, a Null Hypothesis (Ho) is that treatment/factor x will produce no significant change in a system under observation, and needs to be shown to be incorrect via empirical evidence. More fun follows as you need to have support for an alternative hypothesis over other alternative hypotheses + mechanisms of action, all backed up by empirical evidence.
The Ho here is so that allowing same sex marriage will have effect on heterosexual marriage, namely rate of, length and divorce rates, however while you and other opponents are quite happy to ask multiple question, you’re yet to show us any fucking evidence. Other than your poor hurt feelings, which from a human rights angle are not sufficient rational to deny others their secular human rights*.
Empiricism, it’s not that fucking hard.
Nor is human rights.
And yet it seems some are utterly incapable of grasping such simple concepts…
_________________________________________________
*Human Rights act basically, if you don’t like it please be aware that it also protects your right to believe whatever religious nonsense you want, thus giving you protection from discrimination by fundamentalist arsehats.
Where you have you actually applied what you write in here into real life Nick, perhaps you can tell everyone how your life experience gives you such wide reaching awareness and a /smugface outlook on clue-batting!
I’ll not hold half a breath,
Which is why you did a roll-eyes runner from our earlier conversation, because your self belief is built on a pile of quicksand, which you have no real control over, and no desire to step out of your comfort zone!
Super effective my A.R.S.E – Its all theory and SFA else!
I suggest a re-route of the question to McFlock, given he’s certain nothing is going on, I’ll assume he spent some time reaching that conclusion, paying attention, knowing what to look at/for etc…
k-p
Just get on with the relationship building in your own marriage, that’s the main thing. And leave other people to work on their own healthy relationships.
“To redefine marriage (to allow same-sex partners) is to abolish it. Partnership marriage does not keep the existing institution and simply allow more persons to join it. No, it eviscerates it and substitutes a new concept.”
Of course you then start trash talking Ahdar, without actually addressing his argument.
of course i trash talked him “We did not invent hedgehogs, we simply named them” – pretty sure we invented marriage. Did it exist before? do hedgehogs marry?
I trash talked him because his argument is crap
“To redefine marriage (to allow same-sex partners) is to abolish it” – how does that happen exactly?
ive addressed it – his argument is full of holes, straight people wont go to hades for putting up with gay marriage.
” It has a true essence, a fundamental nature; it is a real phenomenon, not just a human invention or convention. A hedgehog is a hedgehog, a tree is a tree, a river is a river. We did not invent hedgehogs, we simply named them. We can call a cat a hedgehog if we want but that does not change its essential nature. All it does is lead to confusion.”
“To redefine marriage (to allow same-sex partners) is to abolish it”
“They lack the inherent structure to rear well-rounded, psychologically secure children.”
“But arguments based on equality are empty. To insist upon equality is to require that “like things are treated alike””:
the guy is bat shit bonkers KP – hes a fricken law professor and he spouts garbage like that? This article has been roundly debunked as flimsy reasoning already. Its not an excellent argument – its a poorly constructed, fools argument.
Marriage means only what the immediate people entering the marriage want it to mean
What have you got against gay people enjoying the same legal rights as anyone else?
What gives you, me or anyone else the right to say “Thats mine – its not for you”?
I will give you a puzzle to ponder.
My elderly, straight, aunt married her long term gay, male best friend. Why? because the cared deeply, nay, loved each other – they wanted to declare their commitment to each other and they wanted to ensure they had some say in matters relating to wills, hospitalisation and other matters – considering that had nothing to do with sex or child rearing, should that have been disallowed?
If they were allowed to marry just because of the nature of their private parts, why the hell cant two men or two woman get married?
Whew! I’m glad its not just teh gayz you’re bigotted against KP, all those fake arranged marriages by Johnny and Mrs Foreigner need to be anulled toot sweet, too. They can start with that German woman whose face is on our money and her Greek so called ‘husband’ Phil. Thanks for clearing that up.
You’ve admitted before that you can’t find any reference to me writing about pc feminist propaganda so I’ll thank you to keep your descriptions of me to those which you can actually ascertain.
Who says two people have to be attracted to each other sexually in order to marry?
“You’ve admitted before that you can’t find any reference to me writing about pc feminist propaganda so I’ll thank you to keep your descriptions of me to those which you can actually ascertain.”
LOL, who are you trying to kid, girlfriend! You are hardcore Feminist, like the other Power Girls, Princess of Thorns and Karol, you are always spewing Feminist received wisdom – patriarchy, essentialism, cisgender, rape culture.
All standard Sociology/Arts Department Wimmins Studies 101 drivel.
Anyway I thought you got the huffs with me and weren’t going to talk to me anymore?
“You are hardcore Feminist, like the other Power Girls, Princess of Thorns and Karol, you are always spewing Feminist received wisdom – patriarchy, essentialism, cisgender, rape culture.”
Every time you say this, I ask you to show where I’ve done so.
So far you have never once managed to point to any such thing I’ve said.
I patiently ask again: Please point to my writing on feminism, hardcore or otherwise.
nope – straight as, but would it make a difference? – been with the same woman for nearly 14 years. my best friend since we were both about 16 – im now past 40
i just hate putting up with fools when it comes to living in a secular society
and since when does asking a few questions and having a few hedge hog jokes equate to flipping out?
And its almost cute the way or strut your stuff and fling the muck about then go all coy and ask me if im flipping out – your not trying to marry me are you?
“Following your argument a grandma and grand daughter should be allowed to get married cos its all about LURV!”
never said that – whats next? You gonna say its a prelude to someone marrying their dog or toddler?
your still avoiding the central issue though – in a secular democratic society that is meant to recognise that we are all equal before the law, what give you me or anyone else the right to claim that we can enjoy a right and deny it to others at the same time?
But its there in your principle stupid -> “its all about LURV!”
You lot just keep going around in ever decreasing philosophical circles. And it comes back to what Ahdar articulates about 2 concepts of marriage – conjugal and contractual.
You want to erase the former with the later – but you don’t say this to the NZ public, you disingenuously claim that marriage won’t be affected, that its just about making it “more inclusive”.
an argument for love doesnt equal and argument for beastiality, pedophillia or incest
im not trying to erase anything – you need to prove that allowing gay marriage will bring about the erasure of procreation for that to be true
and as for going around in circles – perhaps responding to the actual questions put to you would allow us to move forward? It would seem you are the one creating the circle we must follow because you avoid the substance of the rebutal
“you need to prove that allowing gay marriage will bring about the erasure of procreation for that to be true”
BS. Look mate you are not even paying attention to the opposition’s argument. And you don’t seem to have much understanding of your own argument.
You are the one saying marriage is only about love, your example given is an older woman and a gay guy who love each other. So what about a grandma and a grand daughter who love each other?
“You are the one saying marriage is only about love”
where did i say that? – all i gave is a real world example of a marriage that doesnt fit the judeo christian model
and did you not say “conjugal and contractual. You want to erase the former with the later”?
seems your the one not paying attention
still waiting for the aplogy for slandering people who arent here to defend them selves – what are you? some sort of cad? a bounder perhaps?
Marriage of gay guy and unrelated straight woman allows them to be, legally, a family. Grandma and granddaughter are already a family. Born that way. Your comparison makes no sense.
“your still avoiding the central issue though – in a secular democratic society that is meant to recognise that we are all equal before the law, what give you me or anyone else the right to claim that we can enjoy a right and deny it to others at the same time?”
As Ahdar points out:
“The use of the slogan “equality” cleverly skews the debate…[Thus Team Gay Marriage can dodge ] having to demonstrate why the new model deserves to replace the existing institution.”
“original from your own brain” – note the “from your own brain” bit
like i said – if all your going to do is post quotes you obviously dont have much to say.
If you do have something to say then say it, dont fling the insults about and engage honestly with the responses
I’m not getting any Reply links on your recent posts so here goes:
McFlock “Just working off your quote, kp. ->
“The use of the slogan “equality” cleverly skews the debate…”
Well McFlock, do you not understand the use of the quote marks around the word equality that Ahdar puts there?
Again are you really that stupid or is it just more game playing?
framu -> “OK – ill admit that incest is specifically about sexual contact – but your whole grandma grand daughter thing is pretty stupid”
Its stupid because it is the result of YOUR argument that marriage is a contract between two people in love, nothing else. It illustrates the failure of your argument.
The conjugal argument doesnt have to allow for that as you say pretty stupid arrangement because it is comprehensive.
no KP its stupid because its stupid – dont make me accountable for your words
its the same kind of stupid as the “so you want to make it legal to marry your dog” argument
and again – i never claimed marriage is only about love – all i did was highlight a real world example of a lawfull marriage that doesnt fit the moral arguments being made by the anti gay marriage crowd.
The whole point of it was to highlight that it exists yet doesnt fit. If it already exists why are other marriages that dont fit be not allowed when that one is?
please engage with the question for once
Dont make me point that out a third time!
MODS – thats the last im saying on this topic – apologies for filling up the comments this much
Well McFlock, do you not understand the use of the quote marks around the word equality that Ahdar puts there?
Yes. They denote the thing that the author is calling a slogan. Because “The use of the slogan equality cleverly skews the debate…” would indicate that using equality between two or more slogans skews the debate. At the very best, it is possible the author assumes that “using the slogan ‘x'” has the same meaning as “is using X as a slogan”.
All you’re doing is editorialising a poorly-written and poorly-conceived rant against the state regarding different sexual orientations as equal (with the same rights and without religious or cultural prejudice). You then pretend that your wishful inferences were the explicit phrases the author used. They’re not.
There are words for people like you, who insist on trying to insert yourselves in consenting adults’ bedrooms against their own wishes. About the only such word which is actually repeatable in polite company is ‘defendant’.
A quick online search shows Ahdar is pro-child smacking:
“The arguments for banning corporal punishment are philosophically suspect, linguistically strained and not supported by the rather limited research evidence. The authors conclude that the present law on parental smacking should remain.”
And forget Mars, with this tech the asteroid belt is within easy reach, as is Saturn and Jupiter’s moons and so all the ice (water, oxygen, heavy water for fusion reactor/thruster fuel), organics and minerals*, human colonisation of the solar system could ever need. Although the power system for this fusion thruster would probably need a nuclear reactor to power it, which at this stage, would probably be a modified US Naval reactor. And if the Lockheed Martin fusion reactor proves viable, that could also work as a power source.
However, the thrust is only 0.004g, so very long term missions would require centrifuges to maintain astronaut health. But given this system can keep the thrust up fairly constantly, even large space vessels shouldn’t be too much of an issue.
___________________________________________
*With the right minerals, hydroponics mediums are easy to make + organic crud you’ve got pretty much all you need to seed a biosphere for food production. Combine it with a power source and any permanent or long term human occupied bases can be semi-self sufficient and self-sufficient in the long term once manufacturing systems are established.
Oh, I figure even the ion drives that are suggested on http://www.buildtheenterprise.org/ would work. The real hard part would be the cooling of the fission reactors as radiant cooling just isn’t that good.
I see things breaking off really easily if it has to make sharp turns even with titanium structural framing.
That would apply if it made sharp turns which it can’t – with today’s technology we’re pretty much limited to a straight line push. I consider it impractical because of the way he’s configured the gravity wheel. That’s an accident waiting to happen that will tear the whole ship apart. Then there’s all that added mass in the iconic design that requires more fuel and energy to push around.
I happen to think that building such a ship is a great idea.
Absolutley pointless behaviour by Labour, and some incredibly weak questioning by their members. The Speaker though is getting worse every session. He has no control of the Government benches in the House and is visibly rattled by the importance of the topics and his inadequate dealings with them
Blinglish though 🙂 “the Mighty River Shower” pure gold 😉
as Peters asked ‘What is the point of Question time?’
under the current make up, one must wonder if Winston doesn’t have a point
Good work at the end by Robertson, Norman, Peters … getting the PM to dig a deeper hole, and even admit that he’s clueless!
If an MP can think on his/her feet, they can trap Key and make a fool or liar out of him. But there’s one MP who can never think on his feet, and – inexplicably – he happens to be the (ceremonial) leader of the opposition.
And the more “clueless” Key looks, and the MSM pick up on it, the more his “I can’t answer because I don’t have that information with me” will backfire on him.
DoC funding cuts were savage a few weeks ago. Now Key has announced that he is going to give many more millions to Tourism but only for ‘high end’ tourists. What/who are they? The big gamblers and/or the ones who hate the environment? Rich gamblers who own mining companies perhaps?
Did you see Key say emphatically he couldn’t remember where he got Fletcher’s telephone number…followed by “oh I got it from Directory service”.
He was then told he couldn’t get mobile numbers from directory assistance to which he said “It was redirected”.
I find the whole ‘I forgot about the phone call, it was a supplementary question, 16 seconds to answer’ routine to be bullshit.
He was asked what role he played in the appointment, and said none, the SSC appointed him..
That’s not forgetting a phone call; it’s forgetting that the short list was rejected, that there was then discussion about what to do, that you suggested Fletcher, then rang him, and that the guy who was appointed was the guy you suggested and rang.
Fuck knows why he’s bullshitting, but it’s bullshit.
Some of it may have worked as almost credible if he wasn’t grinning out of his arse everytime he mentions the issue in the House. Complete contrast to the impersonation of a concerned statesman he presents when the general public see him on the MSM.
as Contrarian points out above
John Key in the House,
when asked how he had the phone number of Ian Fletcher replied: ” No clue”
then he says he asked Queensland Directory for the number wtf?
making it up as he goes along
He wraps it up by ‘correcting’ his answer to say that he had someone in his office make the call and they were redirected to Ian Fletcher’s phone.
So, this should be easily cleared up by a simple audit of the calls to Queensland Directory made from the PM’s office. A very small list I would imagine as the PM’s office has access to every number in Queensland that the office could possibly require via the numerous inter-agency relationships between NZ and Australia. My bet is the GCSB and friends, just to be safe, are frantically installing said metadata on Queensland Directory files asap.
Very strange behaviour re phone calls @ Question Time.
a. Cagey about how many times he called Ian Fletcher. Therefore there must be some reason for this being worth the question. What else is already known?
b. He was quite emphatic at various times when asked. He said that he pulled out his phone and phoned Ian.
Now he says that he got someone to call directories and found out that way.
(But Directories do not give out cell phone numbers.)
Note that the Opposition thought his answers very funny. Govt benches did not.
“Now he says that he got someone to call directories”
Not quite ianmac. He said he might have got someone in his office to call directory or he might have done it himself.
His staff will have pointed out after question time that the “directory” story he made up on the hoof could easily come back to bite him if it turns out the number wasn’t listed, so he’s gone back to the house and inserted a layer of deniability between himself and his lie.
But he just said it was he that called directory only moments before, so he can’t 180 his story. Hence “might have”. So as far as he recalls it was him, but the moment it turns out that he can’t have got the number that way, he can say “Well it was my office, I don’t know how they got it”.
But as you do, I seem to remember him saying to journalists last week that he already had Fletcher’s number in his phone.
For Christ’s Sake………can anyone really see a busy PM picking up the phone , index finger bang bang bang 018 ? Or whatever the equivalent is for Brisbane if that’s where the guy was at the time ? Unless it was one of those naughty lines he was after.
This takes “I’m an ordinary joker……” just far too far. Like incredibly so.
Read someone on TS saying Key’s lost his political judgment. Seems like it. Or it’s his knowledge that there’s something really cagey hovering just below the surface and he’s rattled. Spooked. Shitting. So he talks unguided broken biscuits. Like it’s Wall Street ’29.
I’ll be watching Amy Adams’ reactions. She’s the one behind and one seat to the left of The Ponce. Dependable for the overstated shaking of the head and the sneering “I don’t know” smiles at the questions Dunnokeyo stands up like a jack-in-the-box to answer, utters “Rhubarb !” or something similarly potent, then sits down quick and hard.
Bet your bottom dollar that the more demonstrative she gets the more she’s really wondering……????? About God. Such is the stuff of a cheap bottle blonde Tory baggage ex-real estate agent or whatever she was before the none-too-attractive snout dived deep into the trough.
This crap with Key has been going on for a long time. The Maori Party have a very clear C&S agreement yet the Maori Party have not been asked a single question on any of it.
I posted this on 05/04 when the Rennie statements were being made:
Why have we heard nothing from the Maori Party about this?
Are integrity in Government and transparency of process not important to them?
from the C&S Agreement:
“It is agreed that relevant spokespeople within the Māori Party will be briefed on significant issues which are likely to be politically sensitive before any public announcements are made.”
+
“*Advance notification to the other party of significant announcements by either the National lead Government or the Māori Party”
+
“* Briefings by the National led Government on significant issues before any public announcement”
– so when the PM diligently told the Co-Leaders of the Maori Party about the appointment of our top spy, did either of them ask about the appointment process? If so, why then did the Maori Party stay silent in the House when the PM lied to Parliament? (and continue to be mute on the topic)
Why have the Maori Party not been asked about the real world application of these basic foundations of co-operation in their C&S agreement with the Government?
– these C&S points are also interesting when considering the Mighty River Power and the Solid Energy fiascoes.
Overall 79% of New Zealanders, regardless of their political alignment, believe a bill restricting rights to protest at sea should now go back to a Parliamentary Select Committee for more thorough scrutiny and public submissions or be dropped.
The majority want it dropped altogether:
Overall, 51.4% oppose a proposed new law which would make some currently lawful protest activities against petroleum and minerals activities at sea unlawful
Haven’t read the 203 comments above so this might be superfluous but My God, how Freudian of that smarmy little punk Simon Bridges in Parliament today, speaking on his blooding in the passing of anti-democratic, anti-protest legislation directed at decent New Zealanders:
Bridges – “……..sends a message that this regime is supportive……..”
Too right it does ! Supportive of what and whom ? The dogs in the street know.
Typically, the up-himself little ex-Crown prosecutor has not an ounce of insight into what his glib wee words reveal. Watch the hubris grow and grow and grow.
An unctuous self-seeker entertaining nil principle.
Talking about ‘regime’ – Wikipedia explanation is –
Modern usage
While the word regime originates as a synonym for any form of government, modern usage often gives the term a negative connotation, implying an authoritarian government or dictatorship.
I think that this meaning is closest to the little Bridges creep’s reference. He must have difficulty with his shoes – having to get two right ones all the time. Probably can afford them being custom-made.
Thanks for that link Blue. Go Anita Quigley ! Read it folks. Very interesting. Maybe Johnny Wanker ain’t the darling in the world beyond these shores that he claims he is ?
Saved the Thatcher thing on TVOne. Halfway through watching it. What a shameless hagiography if ever there was one !
Strange – “hag” = “ugly old woman”, according to a reliable dictionary. Gonna delete it now and off to my Sleepyhead. Up early tomorrow starch my wing collar for the 8 million pound funeral.
Margaret Thatcher is having most pompy funeral since Winston Churchill. What a smear on his memory. Belittles him really. And he may have liked her – British establishment to the core and all that. But his commitment to the country at war elevates him above any right wing peccadilloes he had.
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Peter McKenzie has a piece on Newsroom this morning about how local body politics is awash with property developer cash. 70% of all the donations in the 2016 Wellington mayoral election came from property developers. And its pretty obvious what they want in exchange:That’s particularly important in local government, according ...
Source: Unknown, twitter user Recently, I wrote a (relatively) short paper titled as above, to explore what self-determination could like in a practical sense. Maybe I’m a bit of an international trade truther or something, but I absolutely believe trade is at the heart of achieving peace and self-determination. Since ...
In the 1960s, after I had graduated with a first-class Oxford postgraduate law degree, I joined the British Foreign Office as the top entrant of my year. There, I worked for a couple of years on European affairs and was eventually posted to the Embassy in Brussels. After this exposure ...
Alone, Alone. All, All Alone: Will it be a good or a bad thing, when humanity’s bright blue spacecraft is stricken by the civilisation-destroying problem of Climate Change, that no Huston Control will be standing-by to rescue the crew?“WE HAVE A PROBLEM, HUSTON.” These were the words used by the ...
I heard a 45 minute interview with Monica Lewinsky talking to TED’s Chris Anderson on BBC Radio 4 over the weekend, and have listened to it another two times out walking. I recommend it. Highly. Man, I am so impressed with how this woman has integrated her life experiences and ...
Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff, The Coddling of the American Mind: how good intentions and bad ideas are setting up a generation for failure, London, Penguin, 2019, 352pp; reviewed by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff’s book The Coddling of the American Mind is a timely book, whose ...
When the Justice Committee reported back on the Administration of Justice (Reform of Contempt of Court) Bill, free speech advocates breathed a sigh of relief. As originally introduced, the Bill reitered the ancient offence of "scandalising the court" - basicly, a special sedition law protecting judges from criticism. The select ...
Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. Since then - crickets. Which raises the obvious question: are they actually going to do this, ...
Back in March, the Ministry of Justice conducted a public consultation exercise on whether to hold a review of the Official Information Act. 285 people submitted on it. Now, Stuff has trawled through those submissions, and the case for reform is strong:The Justice Ministry asked Kiwis what they thought was ...
National's prisoner voting ban has gone down as one of the worst laws in New Zealand history. Passed after a farcical debate (including this farcial speech from ACT MP Hilary Calvert), it has subsequently been found to be inconsistent with the Bill of Rights Act by the High Court, Court ...
Divided Loyalties: Can the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, be relied upon? That’s what the boys and girls at Foggy Bottom and the Pentagon needed to be reassured about. Because, from the perspective of Washington, it’s looking more and more like Jacinda Ardern and her Labour Party comrades are getting ready ...
This handy Queer Theory Glossary is from thetranswidow.com In case you’ve had trouble keeping up with the spate of new queer theory terms, here’s a handy glossary for your reference. Queer – A straight person with an interesting haircut. Non-binary/genderqueer – A chubby young female, typically 16-28, who has ...
by Daphna Whitmore US social psychologist and author Jonathan Haidt spoke on 1 August in Auckland to a crowd of around one thousand people. He is best known for his bookThe Coddling of the American Mind which examines the new climate of trigger warnings and acute sensitivity of Gen Z. ...
What an extraordinarily depressing experience it is to be compelled to watch, at 12,000 miles distance, the contortions and machinations of the British political class as they set about their determined attempt to overturn the decision taken by the British people that they wish to leave the European Union. The ...
The winter grazing issue is becoming a highly sensitised one that I hope will not become so politicised that it delays solutions and results in the suicides of some very stressed farmers.Winter grazing has hit the headlines after a determined campaign, including the release of a video of some very ...
by Don Franks Way back when British guitar virtuoso Joe Brown was a beginning session guy he got to back a visiting American artist. Young Joe was an able technician but had yet to learn some points of professionalism. Part way through “Five foot high and rising” Joe tired of ...
Since scientists started studying climate change, they have warned that it will reduce food production. And now, its happening:The climate crisis is damaging the ability of the land to sustain humanity, with cascading risks becoming increasingly severe as global temperatures rise, according to a landmark UN report compiled by some ...
The Abortion Legislation Bill just passed its first reading, 94-23. Its a far bigger margin than I expected, even allowing for the Winston factor, and it reflects the overwhelming support there is in this country for reform. but that support isn't a new thing - it has existed for literally ...
The Justice Committee has called for submissions on the Referendums Framework Bill. The Bill does what it says on the label - establishes a framework for referenda. Things you may want to address in your submission: Whether the bill should apply only at the 2020 election, or whether it should ...
The Thompson and Clark / MBIE spying scandal continues to result in fallout, this time in the form of a report on the implementation of MBIE's "Operation Exploration", its internal operation to enforce the infamous Anadarko Amendment which criminalised protests against the oil industry. MBIE's enforcement operation was tainted by ...
So, Winston Peters is defending his last-minute demand for a referendum on abortion by claiming he was "blindsided" by the bill. Really? The bill is a government bill. It has been working through the cabinet approval process since December last year. As part of that process, NZ First was consulted, ...
The Green Part has been accused of lack of transparency in two recent situations. The first was the claimed media lockdown during Green's annual conference and the second was Julie Ann Genter's refusal to release a letter she had sent to Phil Twyford.I do get frustrated when journalist's succumb to ...
The Green Part has been accused of lack of transparency in two recent situations. The first was the claimed media lockdown during Green's annual conference and the second was Julie Ann Genter's refusal to release a letter she had sent to Phil Twyford.I do get frustrated when journalist's succumb to ...
Last week, the ongoing democracy protests in Hong Kong saw a pro-Hong Kong student assaulted at the University of Auckland. The Chinese consulate in Auckland followed this up with a press release "express[ing] its appreciation to the students for their spontaneous patriotism" - effectively condoning the assault and inciting further ...
Only those who close their eyes and minds to the evidence can still be in any doubt that we are facing a climate change crisis. The evidence is conclusive that the world is not only getting inexorably hotter, but also that the rising temperatures are creating a number of other ...
Opportunities to dodge tax are shrinking with the completion of a new tax agreement with Switzerland, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Mr Nash and the Swiss Ambassador David Vogelsanger have today signed documents to update the double tax agreement (DTA). The previous DTA was signed in 1980. “Double tax ...
Negotiations between Port Otago workers represented by the Rail and Maritime Transport Union (RMTU) and the Maritime Union of New Zealand (MUNZ) and management failed today and the unions have issued notice of an overtime ban from Saturday 7th September. ...
Queenstown Lakes District Council’s comments that it has applied for a consent to pollute waterways to avoid 'prosecutions by the Otago Regional Council' are unacceptable,’ Fish & Game New Zealand Chief Executive Martin Taylor says. ...
On March 15, the real world impact of online hate became abundantly, horrifically clear. As a shooter opened fire at two Christchurch mosques, the online image board 8chan anticipated, celebrated and amplified his killing spree. ...
Friday, 23 August: Government delegates from around the world, including New Zealand, are meeting in New York for the third of four meetings at the United Nations to agree a Global Oceans Treaty that could help to protect 30% of our oceans by 2030. Greenpeace ...
The excuses about a reportedly unwanted $57,000 payrise for Dunedin City Council CEO Sue Bidrose are laughable, says the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union. ...
The Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance has launched the “Ratepayer Protection Pledge” committing to no more than 2% annual rate hikes over the next Council term, and has written to all Mayoral and Council candidates asking them to sign. The pledge will ...
This Saturday, Pakuranga Hunt Day at the Ellerslie Racecourse will see anti-horse racing protesters demonstrating at the corner of Ascot Avenue and Greenlane East. ...
Mayoral candidate John Tamihere will meet with Pacific Island leaders and community elders today at Puhunui Reserve in South Auckland to commit to a Pasefika Cultural Centre. ...
Cruel and invalid Forced Swim Tests carried out at Victoria University of Wellington, will be exposed at the University Open Day today, so prospective students can be warned about the flawed and unethical research being conducted at the institute. ...
The organiser of the annual YWCA Equal Pay Awards has expressed her disappointment with the latest Gender Pay Gap figure for New Zealand workers. The figure rose slightly from 9.2% in 2018 to 9.3% for the quarter ended 30 June 2019. ...
The Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO) is urging firearms owners to pass on information to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques now that the period for submissions has been extended to 27 September. ...
An application was filed in the Employment Relations Authority in Wellington today, seeking an injunction to prevent the Board of the New Zealand Nurses Organisation from removing the President from office. ...
The Government’s commitment to support literacy and numeracy training in the workplace is a strong signal from Government on recognising the importance of upskilling, reskilling and increasing productivity alongside their commitment to address the challenges ...
“The infrastructure sector sees a major role for the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission/Te Waihanga in lifting the nation’s sagging infrastructure performance,” says Paul Blair, incoming CEO of Infrastructure NZ. ...
The AA is calling on the Government to bring forward critical highway projects while time is spent properly developing the plans for a rapid transit system in Auckland. ...
Between 2015/16 and 2017/18, DHBs spent $280 million treating patients due to adverse drug reactions, reveals the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union in its latest briefing paper on health productivity . ...
The Pay Equity Coalition Auckland (PECA) is pleased the gender pay gap has decreased slightly. Statistics released today show the gap is now 11.9%, nearly 2 percent less than last year. ...
The Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO) is urging firearms owners to make sure they pass on any information they have to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques before submissions close tomorrow (Friday). ...
The big electricity companies consider solar energy “disruptive” and want pricing to suppress it. In contrast, advocates of local energy say that solar, energy efficiency, and other local energy solutions are the cheapest ways to reduce carbon emissions. ...
The Earthquake Commission and Shine Lawyers are delighted to announce that EQC has reached an agreement with the Gibling family, agreeing to cover the cost of repairs of remaining earthquake damage on their property. ...
Four months into the inquiry, the Royal Commission is gathering significant information and continues to receive valuable submissions from the public, from current and former State servants, experts and community groups. ...
While Fish & Game New Zealand is pleased to see Federated Farmers Environment Spokesperson Chris Allen say that 'we all want good, fresh water', he conveniently overlooks some key facts. ...
What: Wellington demo “Save the Amazon Forest/Salve a Amazônia!” When: Friday, 6 September 2019 from 12:30-13:30 Where: Embassy of Brazil in Wellingtona ...
Rt Hon Trevor Mallard, Speaker of the New Zealand House of Representatives, welcomes the visit of His Excellency Eduardo Ferro Rodrigues, President of the Assembly of the Republic of Portugal. ...
A cross political Mental Health and Addictions Wellbeing group will be launched on Wednesday 28 August hosted by Sir John Kirwan and Moe Milne (ONZM) who have both been at the forefront of our country’s often difficult conversations about mental ...
Confirmation that the government will be progressing an independent Parliamentary Budget Office is great news for democracy and transparency, Federated Farmers says. ...
At first glance, Simon Bridges’ strident opposition to the government’s proposal to establish an independent office to cost political parties’ election spending plans looks childish and petty. ...
Euthanasia-Free NZ is appalled that Parliament spent so little time debating Part 2 of the End of Life Choice Bill and voted to leave it full of holes. ...
Jordan Williams, a spokesman for the Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance and its nationwide sister group the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is slamming Auckland Mayor Phil Goff for his comments today that John Tamihere would need the Government’s support to ...
A ‘one size fits all’, inflexible and punitive regulatory regime for water quality just gets backs - and costs - up and most importantly will not work, Federated Farmers says. ...
Mediation yesterday between secondary principals and the government has resulted in a deal that the principals' negotiating team is recommending to its members. ...
Clubs New Zealand welcomes the decision of Justice Minister Andrew Little to put forward a bill amending the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act to allow all licensed premises to remain open for Rugby World Cup matches. ...
The Australia and New Zealand Ministerial Forum on Food Regulation has ordered a review looking at labelling of added sugars in food and drinks. An option under investigation is ‘a pictorial approach applied to sugary beverages / sugar-sweetened beverages’ ...
Labour market data released by Statistics New Zealand today indicates that a gender pay gap persists in New Zealand, despite improvement in some areas. ...
In the midst of the 6th Great Extinction Event the coalition, STOP Trashing Our Planet is urging voters to take full responsibility for the legacy we are leaving our children. ...
LGNZ will carefully consider the proposed National Policy Statement on Urban Development (NPS-UD) to assess if it meets the Government’s aim of enabling urban development or simply adds more red tape to the planning process. ...
Statistics out today from the Government show that the gender wage imbalance, or gap, in the average wage is 11.9%, a strong 2 percentage point improvement from 13.9% last year. The gender pay imbalance in the median wage is 9.3%. ...
Newstalk ZB Drive host and Herald on Sunday columnist Heather du Plessis-Allan is taking on the challenge of keeping 2019 Auckland Mayoral contenders Phil Goff and John Tamihere in line and on point in tonight’s live NZ Herald Newstalk ZB debate. ...
After twenty years Napier residents have endured heavy sleep and health disruptive noise and air pollution from freight trucks gridlock operations to and from the Napier port and other regions. ...
The EMA says much is riding on the board and chief executive of the new National Infrastructure Commission (NIC) announced by Infrastructure Minister Hon Shane Jones today, with a difficult task ahead to deliver on its purpose. ...
The Public Service Association welcomes the introduction of workplace standards by the State Services Commission that make it clear public services should expect positive and safe workplaces. ...
The Financial Services Federation (FSF) - the voice of responsible lenders and leasing companies - and FinCap - working with consumers facing financial hardship - are signing a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) this Thursday 22 August in Auckland. It will ...
Wellington, 20 August 2019 — Lawyers for Vulnerable New Zealanders (LVNZ) has lent its support to the amendments proposed by MP Chris Penk to better protect vulnerable people from being coerced to end their lives under the End of Life Choice Bill, currently ...
The Government’s decision to establish and independent Parliamentary Budget Office, outside of Treasury, is a taxpayer victory and will improve democracy, says the New Zealand Taxpayers' Union . Taxpayers' Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke says, “It's ...
New Zealand teacher aides say their pay reflects an outdated idea of what they do. Elizabeth McLeod hears from four TAs, and one parent, about the classroom realities they face every dayCleaning up poo, defusing violent situations, copping physical and verbal abuse: these are the realities of a teacher aide’s ...
The lanky sidekick from Jono and Ben journeys around New Zealand trying to solve small town problems. Does he succeed?Guy Williams, hardly a shy, retiring type, has been screaming out for his own vehicle for years. A loud, lanky, fearless comic, he’s spent nearly a decade in MediaWorks purgatory, sat ...
Ballot Box.Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – The nature of New Zealand general election campaigns could be significantly changed with the proposed establishment of an “umpire” to adjudicate over political party manifesto policies. A suggestion has been put forward by the Government for the establishment of a parliamentary watchdog ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Ihumātao Delphine Herbert and Dan Satherley (Newshub): Tainui to buy Ihumātao land – sources Danielle ...
Extinction Rebellion takes a tour of downtown Wellington to point out the coal industry stalwarts and ask why they’re still there in the face of a climate emergency. “There are coal companies in Wellington??”That’s the incredulous response every single time we mention taking the public on a tour of the biggest ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel A. Ankeny, Professor of History and Philosophy, and Deputy Dean Research (Faculty of Arts), University of Adelaide The South Australian government recently announced its intention to lift the long-standing statewide moratorium on genetically modified (GM) crops, following a statutory six-week consultation ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vicki Sentas, Senior Lecturer, UNSW Law, UNSW Being strip searched by the police can be intrusive, humiliating and harmful. Typically, strip searches involve being required to strip naked in front of police officers, who often give the direction to “squat and cough”, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Louise Remond, Clinical Psychologist, University of Technology Sydney Hi, I was just wondering if something’s wrong with me because I’m never happy and never want to do anything and I’m getting really lazy and I really hate school. Thanks – Anonymous ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Zaphir, Researcher for the University of Queensland Critical Thinking Project; and Online Teacher at Education Queensland’s IMPACT Centre, The University of Queensland From as early as Grade 3 teachers start teaching children how to put across their own points of view. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Holden, Professor of Economics, UNSW It’s four years since then Prime Minister Tony Abbott warned Australia had been heading to “a Greek-style economic future”. He was referring to what he said had been happening under the previous Labor government. When Labor ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samia Khatun, Senior Lecturer, SOAS, University of London Some 1,000 kilometres inland from Sydney, over the Blue Mountains, past the trees that drink the tributaries of the Darling River, there stands a little, red mosque. It marks where the desert begins. The ...
Online gambling is growing fast in New Zealand, but critics say new government ideas for regulating websites focus on what's good for the industry, rather than protecting people from harm. ...
An "extreme pro-Beijing" writer has caused controversy in the Chinese community and awkwardness for the Labour Party by standing for political office in Auckland. ...
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Concern about slow progress for major transport projects, smoking researcher under pressure over funding, and hikoi marches from Ihumātao to Ardern’s office.NZTA is struggling to get spending out the door, so the money isn’t flowing through the economy, reports Thomas Coughlan ...
Speaker of the House Trevor Mallard will look at whether people making submissions on proposed law changes should be forced to disclose conflicts of interest. ...
Rugby and league legend Honey Hireme has put all her careers on hold - including her Warriors debut - to take care of her mum, who has terminal cancer. ...
In the ongoing battle to prevent 480 houses being built on ancestral land, a petition with more than 26,000 signatures was delivered to the Prime Minister’s Mt Albert office yesterday. Leonie Hayden was there.Lead by the inimitable Pania Newton, about 100 kaitiaki set off from Ihumātao near Māngere yesterday morning ...
Every scholarship exam and approximately every two external assessments are wrapped in their own single-use plastic bag. We’re asking the NZQA to cut it out, writes year-13 student Sophia HoneyEvery year after an exam, I see the same conversation happen. Friends turn to each other, talk about how difficult that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Even Scott Morrison, with his abundant self-belief, couldn’t have imagined that on Saturday’s first anniversary of his seizing the prime ministership, he’d be winging his way to France for a G7 meeting, where Australia has ...
A group of students, including some Youth MPs, have been banned from Parliament for a year, after singing a waiata in the public gallery in support of the Ihumātao hīkoi. ...
National MP Nick Smith has lodged a serious accusation against Parliament's Speaker calling him "biased" after once again being booted out of the debating chamber. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sunanda Creagh, Head of Digital Storytelling Last weekend, hundreds of thousands of people again took to the streets in Hong Kong to protest against the government – the 11th straight weekend of demonstrations that began in June over a proposed extradition bill. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Scott Hamilton, Strategic Advisory Panel Member, Australian-German Energy Transition Hub, University of Melbourne Australia’s primary federal renewable energy target – to have 33 terawatts of renewable energy by 2020 – has essentially been achieved. There is much uncertainty as to what is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lewis Mitchell, Senior Lecturer in Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide I swear by Hypatia, by Lovelace, by Turing, by Fisher (and/or Bayes), and by all the statisticians and data scientists, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Blaxland, Professor, Strategic and Defence Studies Centre, Australian National University Just when we thought Australia was getting serious about shifting priorities away from the Middle East to its own neighbourhood, the prime minister has announced another Middle East step up. Australia ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brendan Keogh, ARC DECRA Fellow, Queensland University of Technology In the last three months, the Australian Classification Board has “refused classification” for at least four video games – effectively banning them in Australia. The latest is zombie-survival shooter DayZ. Despite being previously ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Collins, Professor in Nutrition and Dietetics, University of Newcastle The Heart Foundation now recommends full-fat milk, cheese and yoghurt or reduced-fat options as part of its updated dietary advice released yesterday. This moves away from earlier advice that recommended only reduced-fat ...
Business is Boring is a weekly podcast series presented by The Spinoff in association with Callaghan Innovation. Host Simon Pound speaks with innovators and commentators focused on the future of New Zealand. This week he talks to Paris Georgia co-founders Paris Mitchell Temple and Georgia Cherrie.This week’s podcast features a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer, who has died aged 73 of cancer, leaves a political and personal legacy as a man of courage, conviction and congeniality. The support that Fischer as National Party leader ...
One part telenovela, one part family drama, one part addictive love story. Sam Brooks reviews Jane the Virgin, the great show with an unfortunate name that should be your next Netflix binge.The following piece contains very mild spoilers for Jane the Virgin.While watching the last season of Jane the Virgin, ...
Before Zumba, before Just Dance, before it was cool again to move in public group settings, there was Jump Jam. Madeleine Chapman reflects.Jump Jam entered the lives of New Zealand kids in 2001, a year filled with historic cultural movements. Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone was released in 2001; ...
Open mike 16/04/2013 
A Long Time Ago, In A Parallel Universe Far, Far Away: The political journalist scratched his head in confusion. Only then did he notice the name of the building: ‘The Jacinda Ardern Presidential Library and Public Resource Centre’. Making his way inside to the information desk, he asked the librarian ...31 mins ago
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Nothing from me tody - I'm off to Christchurch to pretend to be other people for a weekend. Normal bloggage should resume on Tuesday. ...2 hours ago
Spark is bracing for a customer backlash as rugby fans all across the country struggle to get a picture on their wireless router. With the Rugby World Cup fast approaching, an elderly Taranaki couple are furious after being told that they still won’t be able to watch the tournament, even ...15 hours ago
Several explosions have been reported across Auckland, as well-meaning environmentalists have already begun purchasing too much petrol Starting from next week, customers will no longer need a car to purchase petrol directly from the pump, a development that two major fuel providers are billing as an opportunity to help fight ...16 hours ago
A new study claims to find that a mother’s exposure to fluoridated water during pregnancy may decrease the IQ of male children – but is it correct? (Photo: Getty Images) Anti-fluoride campaigners are promoting ... 17 hours ago
Television advertising has a huge impact on our lives. Even if we don’t recognise that, we know it has to be true, since otherwise why would advertisers spend so much on it? Its significance, however, is greater than simply the influence it has on what we purchase and consume. It ...2 days ago
by Jan Rivers More than 30 years ago a Commission of Inquiry was held in New Zealand to investigate, amongst other things, whether women with cervical cancer were aware that they had been part of a research project and whether they were properly informed of the treatment options ...3 days ago
Everyone Wants To Be Fuhrer: When fascist groups are discussed, the image conjured-up in the minds of most New Zealanders is one of pathetic misfits. This negative impression is reinforced by the latter’s idiotic embrace of the swastika. Even in the second decade of the twenty-first century, the baleful legacy ...3 days ago
In the previous two posts, I laid out the context and set the theoretical framework to answer a question: whether indigenous economies should take the LEAP. This final part outlines ways to conceive of practicing mana motuhake within the existing legal system by carving out special jurisdictions that enable Indigenous ...5 days ago
Fully Informed? Labour’s 2017 promises raised expectations that were little short of revolutionary. Unfortunately, they were never adequately shaken through the fiscal sieve. The hard economic work was not done – and it shows. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s critics have long complained that her grasp of the way the New ...5 days ago
You cannot expect to pound communities into the ground day after day, year after year, decade after decade and just expect them to take it lying down. There’s a point at which the place will explode. And we’re faced with some very big ructions on both sides of the Atlantic ...7 days ago
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Going Down? Once truth and propaganda become fused in the minds of one’s followers, debate and discussion become redundant. If one’s opponents are all outrageous liars, then engaging with them in any way is pointless. Rather than waste its time, a political party should, instead, target all its messages at ...1 week ago
We need to fundamentally reframe our systems settings to address the drivers causing and underpinning inequality; structural change in systems especially financial. The Equality Network Hui was held in Wellington on 27 June 2019. The hui covered important topics such as child poverty; a living wage; taxation; public health; mental ...1 week ago
The views-per-page for some of my recent postings:Depressing, isn't it? Provide thoughtful and wise commentary on the mainstream of British politics and no-one notices. Make a passing reference to Tommy DICKHEAD Robinson in a thread title and you get hundreds of views. Write something about anti-Semitism and you get another ...1 week ago
The government has announced plans to move the Treaty of Waitangi and other taonga to a new site. Great news! So where are they going? Right next to the old one:The new plan will see a new 22,000-square-metre archive built on the former site of Defence House - the former ...1 week ago
Back in June, StatsNZ went public about a project to track population data on an hourly level by using people's cellphones. It wasn't as bad as it initially looked - they were receiving no individual data, only counts by suburb - but there was still a huge consent problem, so ...1 week ago
I did an interview on the TVNZ Breakfast Show about the situation in Hong Kong. I tried to frame the issue as a collective action problem between two sides with very different end games. The video is here. Because of time constraints we could not discuss the fact that the ...1 week ago
Image Credit: Wild Rose College A new study reporting the ranges of values for kidney and liver parameters in a healthy population is being actively misrepresented by anti-fluoride campaigners. The Fluoride Action Network’s (FAN) latest ... 1 week ago
Alone, Alone. All, All Alone: Will it be a good or a bad thing, when humanity’s bright blue spacecraft is stricken by the civilisation-destroying problem of Climate Change, that no Huston Control will be standing-by to rescue the crew?“WE HAVE A PROBLEM, HUSTON.” These were the words used by the ...1 week ago
Divided Loyalties: Can the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, be relied upon? That’s what the boys and girls at Foggy Bottom and the Pentagon needed to be reassured about. Because, from the perspective of Washington, it’s looking more and more like Jacinda Ardern and her Labour Party comrades are getting ready ...2 weeks ago
This handy Queer Theory Glossary is from thetranswidow.com In case you’ve had trouble keeping up with the spate of new queer theory terms, here’s a handy glossary for your reference. Queer – A straight person with an interesting haircut. Non-binary/genderqueer – A chubby young female, typically 16-28, who has ...2 weeks ago
The winter grazing issue is becoming a highly sensitised one that I hope will not become so politicised that it delays solutions and results in the suicides of some very stressed farmers.Winter grazing has hit the headlines after a determined campaign, including the release of a video of some very ...2 weeks ago
The Green Part has been accused of lack of transparency in two recent situations. The first was the claimed media lockdown during Green's annual conference and the second was Julie Ann Genter's refusal to release a letter she had sent to Phil Twyford.I do get frustrated when journalist's succumb to ...2 weeks ago
Opportunities to dodge tax are shrinking with the completion of a new tax agreement with Switzerland, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Mr Nash and the Swiss Ambassador David Vogelsanger have today signed documents to update the double tax agreement (DTA). The previous DTA was signed in 1980. “Double tax ...2 weeks ago
Negotiations between Port Otago workers represented by the Rail and Maritime Transport Union (RMTU) and the Maritime Union of New Zealand (MUNZ) and management failed today and the unions have issued notice of an overtime ban from Saturday 7th September. ...10 mins ago
Fees for company directors are not keeping pace with their rising workload, according to a new survey. ...1 hour ago
New Zealand teacher aides say their pay reflects an outdated idea of what they do. Elizabeth McLeod hears from four TAs, and one parent, about the classroom realities they face every dayCleaning up poo, defusing violent situations, copping physical and verbal abuse: these are the realities of a teacher aide’s ...1 hour ago
The Warehouse Group has upgraded its full year profit expectations again. ...1 hour ago
The lanky sidekick from Jono and Ben journeys around New Zealand trying to solve small town problems. Does he succeed?Guy Williams, hardly a shy, retiring type, has been screaming out for his own vehicle for years. A loud, lanky, fearless comic, he’s spent nearly a decade in MediaWorks purgatory, sat ...2 hours ago
New Zealand-owned Kiwibank says it is winning more customers, demonstrated by a strong increase in deposits and lending. ...2 hours ago
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.
A community representative in Auckland says she's been sidelined by her peers after posting photos online with Green and Labour party MPs. ...3 hours ago
Dairy's huge role earning export dollars for New Zealand is facing a threat some say could bring it to its knees. ...4 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vicki Sentas, Senior Lecturer, UNSW Law, UNSW Being strip searched by the police can be intrusive, humiliating and harmful. Typically, strip searches involve being required to strip naked in front of police officers, who often give the direction to “squat and cough”, ...5 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Louise Remond, Clinical Psychologist, University of Technology Sydney Hi, I was just wondering if something’s wrong with me because I’m never happy and never want to do anything and I’m getting really lazy and I really hate school. Thanks – Anonymous ...5 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Zaphir, Researcher for the University of Queensland Critical Thinking Project; and Online Teacher at Education Queensland’s IMPACT Centre, The University of Queensland From as early as Grade 3 teachers start teaching children how to put across their own points of view. ...5 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Holden, Professor of Economics, UNSW It’s four years since then Prime Minister Tony Abbott warned Australia had been heading to “a Greek-style economic future”. He was referring to what he said had been happening under the previous Labor government. When Labor ...5 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samia Khatun, Senior Lecturer, SOAS, University of London Some 1,000 kilometres inland from Sydney, over the Blue Mountains, past the trees that drink the tributaries of the Darling River, there stands a little, red mosque. It marks where the desert begins. The ...5 hours ago
Online gambling is growing fast in New Zealand, but critics say new government ideas for regulating websites focus on what's good for the industry, rather than protecting people from harm. ...5 hours ago
More than 100,000 Chinese citizens have studied in New Zealand in the past 20 years. ...5 hours ago
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‘
The giant Feed The Kids Breakfast is being organised for tomorrow Wednesday, 17th April, at Ngati Otara Park, Otara from 9am:
Volunteers are needed for this important political event today.
If You can help today, Tuesday 16th April making the lunches. Be at the Hillary Collegiate, Franklyne Road, Otara from 5pm to 7pm.
Tomorrow, become an organiser. From 7am to 11am help organise the breakfast at Ngati Otara Park, Franklyne Road, Otara.
We need lots more people to help feed the kids. Labour, National, Greens, NZ First, United Future, all other groups. Be there or be square.
Haven’t turned on the radio yet this morning.
I presume Shearer has been all over the news, roundly condemning John Key for terrorising kiwis with his bullshit stories and challenging him to put up or shut up.
Or maybe not.
“Or maybe not.”
You’ve got it in one pal.
It’s there. But it’s pretty much – we need a full inquiry first. And he and Key have been gazumped by the explosions at the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Awful of course. And extensive injuries, deaths.
But if Key tries to link it to NZ fantasy WMDs, Laila Harre happened to be running in the marathon and should get some air time.
Holy frak. I hadn’t heard that had happened.
Pete George is the first (I think) to explicitly say that Boston needs to be part of the GCSB debate. Apparently he only just realised that terrorists exist or something.
Are you really that ignorant about NZ’s technology companies, particularly electronics and software? Are you really that ignorant about some of the research going on in our universities. Turn down the confirmation bias and wake up.
How does any of this relate to Boston?
Which research in particular? I don’t know much about private companies, but I have a fair idea about what happens in universities. The most worrying stuff coming out of them is the rubbish churned out by de Freitas.
He will. Nothing is surer… and the uninformed or plain ignorant (which together comprise at least 50% of the population) will probably fall for it.
Uninformed and ignorant are the same thing. Ignorance, being a condition we all share, is nothing to be ashamed of.
playing the percentages
If you’re referring to my 50% claim, the answer is No… ghostrider. I base it on the approx. 50% figure who voted for NAct and other right wing parties at the last election.
Which is entirely unfair. There are a lot of people who vote for National who know exactly what they’re doing…
Similarly there are going to be a lot of people that vote for Labour who are uninformed and ignorant.
Uninformed can be a genuine case of someone not being in a position to know about some things and is not necessarily something of which to be ashamed. Ignorance in my book applies to individuals who have been provided with the prerequisites (eg. an education) to keep themselves informed but are too lazy to bother. They should be ashamed.
Actually, felix, Shearer was on the case:
[audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20130416-0636-labour_refuses_to_back_proposed_law_changes-048.mp3" /]
And Clayton Cosgrove and Iain Lees Galloway also did excellent work on Solid Energy and Transmission Gully. Been a fine morning for Labour.
A reasonable performance – “pass” 6.5/10
Could have been improved by: emphasising more that John Key was reaching out for convenient ways to hide from the spotlight, and pushing back against the interviewer’s suggestion that it was a Labour Government law at fault.
Yes CV “it was a Labour Government law at fault.” and highlight that in 2003 there was strong crossparty support. National voted for it and I bet there are some clever researchers who would find records of National MP speakers of the day who re-enforced the “Not for Spying on NZers line.”
It’s good that he’s there but all I heard was “blah blah inquiry blah blah another inquiry”, and I’m already interested so god only knows what it sounds like to a more casual listener. Something like Charlie Brown’s parents I imagine,
When Key pulls shit like “WMDs under the bed” it needs to be smacked down right away. Let kiwis know that their instincts are correct, their PM is lying to them, and if it were us in govt we wouldn’t be trying to frighten them to cover up lies and corruption.
It’s about challenging the narrative itself, not buying into it and arguing the detail.
Have you never heard of companies like Palentir Technologies?
So what? How does the existance of a company that overseas baddies might be interested in justify spying on Kiwis?
A couple of bombs went off in Boston today. That definitely justifies spying on Kiwis. We hold marathons here too, you know.
.
Shameful that innocent people have been killed in America today.
Shameful that many more innocent people have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan and all around the whole place today.
+1
re Boston; “no ‘chatter’ intercepted before or after detonation events by intelligence”
The Herald- “You Be The Judge” features a new low bench-mark facing the rising tide of the blogosphere while a woman who uses her credit card to message an “unknown’ face-book friend is fleeced for $300 as parents pay Yule’s pumped up Porse child-care fees there is a big squeeze on for Auckland school as the Ministry is unprepared for demographics, demographics, demographics; there goes the neighbourhood property values vows North Korea.
The Viper is on to it; The country is frakked..
Re: demographics, you can see what is coming years or decades ahead of time, it shouldn’t get any easier than that.
Yes the country is frakked…but I’d like to add at this juncture…significantly less frakked than some of our major trading partners…
enjoying the show?
Well, if I was a masochist I’d be in xgasms right now.
a reflection from my nurse friend; frankly, she is getting tired of the crap this government and their allies are dumping on the young she nurtures; now they’ve been advised, AraTaiohi, of the additional impacts the Starting Out Wage, increasing youth unemployment rates, ongoing job cuts, drought and effects on grocery prices are going to have on rangatahi; further-more, even a patient dyslexic like her can see that these political / economic shifts by TPTB are out of fear of the concessions to income / lifestyles / assets the pricks are anticipating from rapid social change.(she tends to focus on old-white-men, yet that is a bit of a generalization).
Nat MP Jackie Blue to resign this morning? Anybody heard anything?
edit, it’s on Stuff. Another bogus appointment from the people who thought it’d be a laugh to give Susan Devoy a job she had no qualifications for!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8555255/National-MP-Jackie-Blue-to-resign
Failed coup attempt apparently.
edit: according to Eddie
More like a rat/ship paradigm, I would have thought.
Like Chauvel you mean?
Nope, Labour isn’t the Government for a few months yet. Losing personal confidence, losing public confidence, and now losing one his cleverer MP’s. Been a bad few weeks for Dunnokeyo.
If reaction in my office is indicative of the country as a whole then you just might be right.
Everyone is talking in concerned tones about Jacqie Blue, in fact my PA has just run to the toilets crying.
I will certainly remember where I was when I heard the news.
you still got it; (on that note, Boston doesn’t have quite the same Flash-Bulb memory exposure as 911; that I can remember to a T; was in the dunny.)
Crony Collins can always be relied on to give another watchdog job to friends!!!
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/132916/jackie-blue-new-eeo-commissioner
There is something not quite right in a sitting Parliamentarian applying for a significant public service job and getting it, and then quitting the House to take up that job. (Of course, if you are yuckyoil or his types like the hoots, the ape, the goose or craigm, then all is fine and acceptable … or it’s all Labour’s fault.)
All parties (hello, Shearer?) must commit to making sure this does not happen in this case and also that it never happens again. If parliamentary conventions and Cabinet Manual will not draw a clear bright line on this, then bloody pass a law to prohibit such repugnant appointments.
Total Recall
“The Fall enslaves us all
Matthias=Truth
synthetic police
an illusion, no matter how convincing,
is still an illusion
Migrant workers
what is there to say? You’re from The Colony,
he’s from the UFB
welcome, operating systems activated
I met a woman, she opened my mind,
it’s the resistance we should be fighting for
they want to replace the colonists with synthetics
the past is a construct of the mind
the heart wants to live in the present.”
Virginia’s Finest Cut
-Trampas (Jesus Built My Hotrod)
a treat for the Rogue
ghostly; it was an XY ute acshully, bench seat 😉 (very convenient, though you have to open and close the passenger door).
Gosh the USA gets to be top of the list of today’s Celebrity Countries AGAIN. They seem to manage to dominate the news almost every day. For years anything rather strange brought the response ‘That must have happened in the USA’. It’s just the same now except more frequent and the happenings reported are more worrying because of their global effect.
Our country wants to follow the lead of the USA, the ‘world’s super power’ but when you look at it the question arises about this man-made wonder country, Is that all there is?’ to hope for in our civilisation.
Perhaps it would be more rational to stop trying for a noble, happy civilisation and follow the words of a song by Peggie Lee, a great singer – “Is that all there is, then let’s keep dancing!’ Try Fever too.
interesting view prism; I too was fascinated, not, that across all the Sky news channels there was simultaneous marathon coverage for the casualties of a US city, yet, do we see the same expose of Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Gaza, shall I go on (rhet. obviously)
and then, and then, despite the apparent absence of intell, the US have scrambled in NY, Washington and L.A. (Chicago already blown away).
Two Things; we are not supporters of Harre, and even Rachel Smalley seemed to be struggling over the coverage; we despair, we honestly despair.
Yet, we may see more street protests before the year is out
ghost88888
What’s up with Harre criticism? And I didn’t hear it all so what did Smalley not do?
been following her development on TDB; just not our cup-of-tea politically, sorry to say, though that is not to say she is an excellent advocate on many issues personal to her. Hey, the ghost is only human.
Something happened to my link to Peggie Lee – it just vanished – so here again.
(Brought this up to a more relevant position than down below where it’s ended up.)
memorable dis illusionment Peggy; reminds me of Diana Dors, Ella Fitzgerald and Nina Simone.
In the beginning, was the Word, or, was that Love. It certainly was not possessions, though maybe a little possession.
(first through a glass darkly now we see clearly s.e e indeed.
Well, a great day for the opposition just got better! After working together on the EPMU’s manufacturing enquiry, we now have a further sign of what the next Government is going to look like:
David Shearer (via fb):
“This Thursday at noon Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman and I will hold a joint press conference to unveil policies to bring down power prices and give Kiwi households some financial relief.”
This is more like it, Labour and te Greens! Give the public something solid to aspire for, give them a reason to vote. Niiiice!
Interesting that Shearer chose not to signal 24 hours ago that this press conference was coming. I don’t think that was the correct strategy – a build up to today’s event would have been superior IMO.
However, I will be impressed if Labour and the Greens come out with something solid and strong.
Yeah, I don’t get the idea to not announce it yesterday. Guess they wanted to be in the news all this week:
Monday: Labour gonna do something
Tuesday: Labour set date for when they gonna tell us
Wednesday: Speculation about what Labour gonna do
Thursday: Announcement of what Labour gonna do
Friday: Analysis of what Labour gonna do
An outward sign they are working together. Good one!
+100
well, at least he got a move on; yesterday it was “not something we have the details on, will be working…yadda yadda.” maybe he’s got a bomb under him!
This is good to hear. Labour/Green ftw.
I await with interest these measures, though I anticipate they will be underwhelming.
Thoughts and wishes to the people of Boston today. My family there are okay thankfully.
That’s good to hear Brett.
What a shock for people with family and friends n Boston, and of course anywhere. A NZ interviewed who supports running as a great sport for bringing people together was sad and emotional about this injury producing and murderous attack.
Meanwhile, 55 more people die in Iraq due to car bombs….
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/15/298354/multiple-car-bombings-kill-7-in-iraq/
They are just Iraqis Longhair – they clearly don’t matter anywhere near as much.
A lot of kiwis have family there buddy, thus the coverage.
Or, dead white English speaking people rate more in the media than dead people of all other kinds put together.
Or that bombings in a major US cities are rare events whereas Iraqi has been on the news for 10 years now.
and if greater coverage [i.e. truth] was ever broadcast in the US media about the slaughter of innocents in other countries, largely perpetrated by the US, perhaps the reaction in the US would mean the US would be less likely to be bombed in the first place.
This assumes Boston has been bombed by a foreigner for reasons that have to do with foreign wars
not at all, not even a little bit.
Domestic attackers are just as likely to use foreign policy as a catalyst for a terror event. This is highlighted throughout numerous publications especially in those produced by the Department of Homeland Security.
And you know that as i am very confident you have commented on it in the past, so what was the point of your comment?
Something happened to my link to Peggie Lee – it just vanished – so here again.
Since the massacre of those school children at the last publicised shooting in the usa, how many other attacks have there been?
I suspect up to one every day. Like car crashes off NZ ski field roads they are kept on the quiet for obvious reasons.
Roughly 3000-3500 deliberate and accidental gun deaths since Newtown.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-us-newtown_n_2935686.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html
voices of opposition are growing as NZ media stays so very very silent on this inherently corrupt absurdly secretive and blindingly obvious Corporate takeover of democracy and self-determination
http://teamsternation.blogspot.co.nz/2013/04/protests-against-tpp-go-global-as.html
nah, i’m probably just over-reacting. I’m sure it’s all ok, that nice man Mr Key said everything is groovy
I went for a coffee at a local watering hole this morning: sitting near to the till….a very large gentleman walked by checked proceedings, and stood outside on alert. Following him to the till, with his wife was our Prime Minister, who then paid the bill. Probably not on the taxpayer, he took no receipt that I saw.
I observed, just another dull suit, an average middle aged guy buying breakfast with his lady. So ordinary. We all give him s**t here, but I had no impulse to intrude and do it publicly.
Gave me to reflecting that despite the c**p that goes on we cant be too bad a place when our PM can walk down the road…if I had the job (heaven forbid) I would not want to have the security dude present often. And we are small enough for our representatives to be close enough to touch.
What would you have done differently?
online media is doing it, patiently.
As he goes to leave you quietly call out
” excuse me sir, you forgot your conscience”
well we can all dream
Very nice. Just the right touch.
Beaut answer, I will store that for future reference.
On the other hand, I saw Helen Clark, Muldoon, and Bolger a number of times with no apparent security at all.
As to intruding on them in public, I did stand in front of Roger Douglas once and tell my dog that if she knew what scum he was, she’d bite him. The people with him laughed. He didn’t.
With Key, I’d probably just walk out of the watering hole. Depending on my mood, I might say something. I really have no desire to find out.
I did tell Roger how scummy he was. Never raised a smile. I think your dog has good taste, dog food tastes far nicer than Roger no doubt.
Tough and stringy
Bitter.
Resulting in a major case of heartburn and moral indigestion.
This Boston marathon bombing has occurred on Patriots Day in the USA.
So now if I had to pick I would say domestic terrorism, only because Timothy McVeigh also chose Patriots Day, 1995, for the Oklahoma city bombing.
And the Waco siege ended on Patriots Day – another big event the wing-nuts get excited about. I think a lone wolf ‘patriot’ wil be the culprit. Much more likely than islamic terrorists at this stage.
The explosive type is going to be very interesting.
Without discounting anything, the marathon lacks the sort of ideological valence that ‘patriots’ usually target.
While true it was also ‘tax day’ in Massachusetts and Boston was the scene of the famous tea party tax protest.
They already bombed the British quite successfully tho
When you say “lone wolf patriot” I assume you mean a lone wolf closely connected to several networks of other lone wolves with similar political views.
‘Lone Wolf’ in the Unabomber sense.
Like so:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_(terrorism)
That’d be pretty unusual. What makes you think along those lines?
There was only one gun man on the grassy knoll.
Unless of course, we want to use this as an excuse to demolish civil liberties and press freedom, in which case its definitely a whole networked foreign funded conspiracy.
Given the history of terrorism in the U.S. it’s a false dichotomy to say it was either a foreign network or a domestic loner.
Excellent thinking and great possibilities that are testable
Just a hunch.
Is there more to come @ Question Time today re the Appointment of Ian Fletcher?
10. GRANT ROBERTSON to the Prime Minister: What role, if any, did he play in recommending the appointment of Ian Fletcher as Director of the Government Communications Security Bureau?
Very clever.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8553705/NZ-won-t-be-punishing-unvaccinated-children
q: If you are told vaccines work so well, and people decide to get their child vaccinated, why are people so afraid of unvaccinated children being at school with them?
They like to see everyone worshipping at the same altar. It shakes their fragile faith in the proscribed ceremony if some people choose not to participate on bended knee. You know, like large numbers of nurses and doctors choosing not to get the flu jab every year.
🙄
Don’t forget to say the Empiricists Hail Mary
Its a question which won’t be answered by anything other than the Herd Immunity response!
Which is of course, not an answer.
That said, many people are still comfortable with forced medication through the water supply, and have been fooled into believing that hydrofluorosilicic acid is safe to ingest, so sure, force vaccinate everyone, or ban/ridicule those who don’t, comply
Only serves to illustrate how much damage the hydrofluorosilicic acid as done!
Oh noes, it has acid in the name, it must be bad!
Next thing you know, you’ll be warning us against dihydrogen monoxide, the greatest industrial chemical coverup ever by none other than Barrack Hussein Obama.
Its a toxic by-product which is procured primarily from the mining, and fertilizer industries, sold by counties such as China, who ban it from their own water supply, but yet dumped into the supplies elsewhere.
Quite a scheme given the costs involved to dispose of the poison otherwise, instead, being paid and have someone take it off your hands, genius!
What are you trying to compare water with poison for?
What you have done, is announce how silly you are though, BRAVO!
Edit: Many parts of NZ, and the world do not have flouride in the water, in fact those which do are in the minority by some margin these days.
Sensible knowledgable nations, such as found in Scandanavia, laugh when the topic comes up, they moved past the discussion long ago!
Seems like you may have had more than your share pal!
🙄
🙄
Great come back from Lanthanide/NickS – Standing Ovation!
Lanthanide, try answering the question I asked you, instead of the nonsense you spouted above!
What are you trying to compare water with poison for?
Silly boy!
🙄
Awww – Nicky boy, come on fella you can do better than that!
Generally speaking, while your comments are that of someone with little real experience, they pack more content than those of Lanthanide, who actually manages to say SFA most the time, so the use of a face, in response by him is about what I would expect.
I would expect something better from you though, even if its just some rage fuelled abusive rant, a clue-bat here, a derp or two there….come on bro, get stuck in my comment above.
Don’t put yourself in the same space as Lanthanide, you’re better than that…
You’re better than that..
You’re better than that..
You’re better than that..
You’re better than that..
You’re better than that..
🙄
And on my signal, you will begin to gently awaken, and when you awaken, you will experience only a sense of peacefullness…
Waking in 3….2….1…..
🙄
So you believe in forced consumption of a toxic by-product, and forced vaccination Nick, thats not the peacefullness you should be experiencing…
🙄
Thou hath failed to understand toxicology101.
this section of the dental floss is very entertaining 🙂
Because vaccines are never 100% effective. Your child could still get the illness and have mild symptoms and pass it on to others, such as members of the family, which could potentially be life threatening depending on the disease we’re talking about.
There are many cases where vaccines haven’t worked properly and some where they haven’t worked at all… Couple that fact with the documented cases of people having adverse reactions, and there’s no doubt that vaccination should be a personal choice, not forced by the state.
“Couple that fact with the documented cases of people having adverse reactions, ”
There’s a lot of documented cases where people without vaccinations have had adverse reactions, too.
“There’s a lot of documented cases where people without vaccinations have had adverse reactions, too.”
this comment is the equivalent of poking out your tongue and going ‘nah nah nah pffft pfft pffft’
those you refer to have not had an adverse reaction, though they may have had a natural and perfectly normal illness.
If the choice only endangered your own kid, the issue would be more clear cut. Failing to vaccinate a child that would not high risk for adverse reactions would just be negligent parenting, not public endangerment.
Got kids McFlock?
lol
Seriously?
Nope. But nor am I sure that my vaccinations all worked 100%. I’d hate to get seriously ill just because some nutbar decided that they were afraid their little precious would catch autism.
this is all good stuff lmn.
Yes seriously, and dude your thinking is flawed, as well as obviously selfish.
Try this – I am neither pro, nor anti vaccination, but I am pro choice!
If that means some people get sick and/or possibly die, including myself, then so be it, free people have some choices……
The day when forced vaccination comes to be, is the day people who share your position, will be wishing they had never conjured such a thought, let alone aired it in public!
Be careful what your ego wishes for, cos it will come with a large portion what you fear most attached, most likely taking away what you value most!
For your health and safety, of course!
Why is my thinking selfish?
Learn to read. Do you think it’s fine for people to seriously endanger others based on myth and nutty ideas?
A measles outbreak in remmers, mate. That’s the light end of the scale, and there’s no excuse even for that.
🙄
In terms of relative risk though, you’ve got a much higher chance of catching measles, mumps or rubella and suffering serious side effects (or death) than you are to suffer serious side effects from the MMR jab.
And frankly, a lot the “research” people end up doing is via anti-vaccination sites and due to lacking science educations, they’ll usually not be able to spot the huge fucking flaws in the anti-vaccination bullshit. Or due to social connections, will buy the bullshit because someone they trust believes it. Thus there’s serious ethical reasons regarding leaving the decision up to parents and due to usual human behaviour, trying to educate people will hit a brick wall. As the more popular (at the public level) something wrong is, the harder it is to get people to realise it’s wrong.
I would be interested in seeing this research that says the relative risk is low you’re refering to NickS, because the amount of market removals for vaccines are now higher than any other drug class. That indicates that vaccines are one the least safest prescription drugs available.
You can only argue that the relative risk is low if you actually know the amount of adverse reactions compared to the likelihood of infection… I presume you can link to that information to support your argument?
Nah vaccines are in a super special class all by themselves, the lower the chance of infection the more important it is that everyone has to have it (to keep it that way etc.)
Vaccines shouldn’t be compared to other recalled drugs because they’re designed to prevent instead of cure illnesses? Not a very robust argument there CV, especially considering that vaccines have been shown to lower people’s immunity thus increasing susceptibility to various other infections.
Unfortunately there’s a percentage of people who have an adverse reaction to vaccination, with there being some documented cases of people dying. Therefore individuals (especially those with strong constitutions) shouldn’t be forced into having vaccinations.
The less probable actual benefit a vaccine can convey to you and your children, the more you should unzip your trousers and take your shot like a man, for King and Country you know.
🙄
Here’s an idea, how about you bother actually doing some research into the science for once? Especially as you live in CHCH and so have a very well stocked University Library, filled full of textbooks that’s open fairly late most weekdays. Or you could bother checking science blogs covering vaccines and how they work to gain basic functional knowledge…
Instead of douching it up.
Fuck me mate
What the fuck can they pretend to tell me about how much they think they know about how the human immune system works. They can’t even sort out a common case of psoriasis.
The Stupid, It Burns
Judging by your reply, am I to assume that you’re being a bit facetious there CV? Apparently you don’t even have basic functional knowledge… Didn’t get your shots for that eh?
Somehow I don’t think the Maori King (New Zealands only King) would advocate for forced vaccination… Besides, being that vaccines have also been shown to cause sterility in some patients, I plan to continue manning up so to speak by not being vaccinated.
Yeah sorry, I missed the /sarc tags earlier on.
Basically, there is a long list of drugs and vaccinations out there which were “proven safe and effective” (and had people like NickS assure us of that fact) then ended up pulled off the market just a few years later because when actually used on real people in real circumstances, they proved themselves much less than safe or effective.
For that reason alone, compulsion to undertake any treatment should be vigorously ruled out.
And remember, there is only one certain risk free beneficiary from every dose of drug or vaccine sold. Big Pharma.
/facepalm
In the cases of many of those withdrawn drugs, there were very significant failures by the drug companies to act in good faith and do the fucking population studies properly, or worse yet, falsified data. Or in some rarer cases, issues weren’t noticed due to the fact the sample sizes used for drug trails are unable to pick up all possible phenotypes, so issues pop up later during monitoring. Publication of those results, then results in withdrawl, lawsuits and laws being brought to cluebat.
And it should be fairly fucking obvious I do not support bullshitting by the drug companies.
🙄
One thing you’re failing to to do is actually sanity check your assumptions. Each vaccine released is usually chemically different to another vaccine, even for those targeting the same disease. Often as ongoing research into how each vaccine works and monitoring of pathogens can provide better antigens to target, higher levels of immune respone or safer vaccines, such as using protein fragments instead of heat treated viral particles or bacteria. Thus assuming withdrawl of multiple vaccines = all vaccines are dodgy is a rather dubious line of reasoning.
As for risks, I’m going to be lazy (if you want more, you need to do teh research):
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/faqs-dis-vac-risks.htm
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa003077
Furthermore MMR vaccine has undergone very extensive safety studies due to the scientific fraud Wakefield committed, as well as being improved, of which this safety information is easy available if you know the basics of science researching. i.e. you need to look at the bloody science published, grasp it and integrate it into a cohesive web that links to understanding how vaccines work, complications therein and science101. And citation records are a boon to hunting down newer work.
Instead of assuming anti-vaccine sites have the same equivalence as published research like so many people mistakenly do. Which I blame media’s “two sides” meme for…
NickS
I’m not making assumptions, I’m stating facts… Facts that you seem incapable of properly comprehending NickS. For instance, you’ve linked to a study about just two vaccines that cause an increased risk of seizures… It concludes:
That doesn’t counter the fact that the amount of market removals for vaccines are higher than any other drug class.
I haven’t said all vaccines are dubious, I’ve said some are and the amount of recalled vaccines outnumber any other drug on the market. That would indicated that they’re more dangerous than the companies producing them claim.
I’m still interested in seeing this research that says the risk from all vaccines is relatively low NickS?
And you’ve failed to actually look at the rate of those reactions and contrast them against measles.
And you’ve conviently ignored the rather clear message I made about not lumping in all vaccines.
As for the GBI report, it’s stuck behind a hideously overpriced paywall and so I can’t see what they’ve done vis their definitions, I can’t see their methodology, I don’t know if they’re grouping immunoglobins and vaccines and I have no idea about the trustworthiness of it compared to a science journal. Thus any info there is stuck in limbo. In otherwords, go hunting for something I can actually get some useful traction on.
Oh lordy:
Your reading comprehension, brush up on it. And while I could have worded that argument to be a bit more clearer, you’re making assumptions about safety of all on the grounds of a limited window and lack of fucking reasons for recalls of specific vaccines. For which the reasoning of that paragraph still very much applies.
Heck, I doubt seriously if you have any idea about the shear number of drug candidates that don’t make it every decade after showing potential function in stage one trials…
NickS
Who’s making assumptions now? Good luck arguing against a scientific study NickS.
What assumptions can I make when the study conducted into the amount of recalled drugs states:
You should perhaps just admit that you were wrong NickS.
Are you saying that one drug class is more likely to be mislabeled than another, and therefore that’s the reason immunoglobulins and vaccines are the most recalled drug class?
One would assume that mislabeling would be relatively equalized across all drug classes, and that immunoglobulins and vaccines are more likely to be recalled because on average they’re more dangerous!
I’ve linked to a synopsis of a study that supports my argument… If you want further proof that I’m correct, go look for it yourself.
I doubt anybody would have any idea about what you’re arguing NickS, especially when you write things like this:
Perhaps you should heed your own advice and brush up on some reading comprehension skills yourself.
Whoops, that’s what I get from too much sugar…
/ahem
Anyhow, a quick fisking of the FDA data set: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/Recalls/default.htm turns up a few things. In particular, H1N1 vaccines had high recall rates, primarily due to manufacturing stuff ups (sterility, wrong materials, use by dates), leading to a large spike in recalls. Compared to the previous two years however, total vaccine recalls where 3, of which two occurred in 2009 for H1N1 vaccines.
Most importantly, none of this recalls where for adverse reactions, rather they were recalled due to the three above reasons + antigen levels or strength. Which does frankly undermine your safety angle. Furthermore the recalls happened fairly quickly.
A similar pattern appears from scanning the drug recalls, with most recalls being not adverse reaction based, but rather manufacturing issues (contamination, sterility, i.e. mold).
Thus, I suggest that one actually bothers doing a bit more indepth research beyond a somewhat problematic GBI report that’s more fluff than anything important.
Hie thee to Google Scholar!
Recommended that you use a tabbed browser, with multiple opened windows and regular checking of wikipedia, which will oft have vaccine stuff on it due to anti-vaccine stupidity being cluebatted. Otherwise there’s plenty of science-based blog posts out there.
e.g.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/hpv-vaccination-misinformation-and-bias-on-medscape/
– contains heavy linkage to other info
– Gorski explains things clearly, albeit verbosely
– thus useful learning and for link-surfing to cover further ground on vaccine safety
The information is there, you just need to hunt for it. Preferably not on crank sites (ye shallth know them by their contradictions and science101 failures) except for checking out the rather disturbing things some people believe. However a trigger warning applies for the likes of whale.to and friends due to extremely high levels of batshit insanity contained within them and it is not recommended that you read the comments for the sake of your continued sanity.
Jackal, that article specifically refers to “Biologics – Immunoglobulins and Vaccines”.
That’s not vaccines as such, that’s a specific class of vaccine, therapeutic, not preventative vaccine.
You can’t really use these as an argument against the childhood immunisation schedule, which is a schedule of preventative vaccines. Biologics are in a completely different league and not for mass population disease prevention.
Actually, vaccines are lumped with biologics by the FDA in it’s recall data. Mainly as they’ve got low rates of recall and are biological in orgin. Ranging from live cells/viruses, dead cells/viruses, whole proteins and at teh bottom protein fragments.
Ah – thanks. Still, he can’t use preventative vaccines, alongside other biologics as an argument against the safety of preventative vaccines. The categories need to be split.
It holds that preventative vaccines recall rates are not because of safety of the vaccine. In the list FDA recalls list you’ve linked to there are manufacturing issues, not vaccine safety issues, that prompt recalls.
Oh yeah:
[citation needed]
Also – one of the more problematic issues with designing vaccines is that sometimes the sample sizes you use to test for efficacy and safety aren’t large enough. So often when vaccines are removed it’s to do with them failing to trigger immune responses significant enough to trigger long term immunity or having higher predicted rates of side effects.
Thus, in order to say anything about “safety” you actually have to fucking bother to look at why a vaccine was pulled. Rather than assuming like you do above that the total number of vaccines pulled were pulled for safety reasons. Furthermore I suspect you may be adding vaccines which are in development to your list, which like drug development, often runs into issues in later stages that prevents release into the market. HIV vaccines for example often fail with great fanfare in the media…
[lprent: fixed blockquote. ]
derp, fucked up the blockquote tag /facepalm.
Too,. Much. Suuuuuuuuuugar…
“why are people so afraid of unvaccinated children being at school with them?”
Parents may be unclear about how vaccination protection works, and some may be rather emotional about unvaccinated children, but health and education officials are worried about unvaccinated children infecting other unvaccinated (or immune compromised children) sparking a public health crisis and disruption in education. This health crisis and disruption is more severe as the higher the number of unvaccinated children. Take a look a the current measles outbreak in Wales for an example.
Forget education its mainly about making money and workers who stay home and take sick days to look after unwell kids cost businesses and the economy money.
sticks and stones may break their bones, yet whips and chains excite them; some pretty tense apprehensions to come over Boston; funny if it turned about to be an North Korean jihadist funded by the aryan liberation front.
It looks like home grown amateur hour from this distance.
They found multiple unexploded bombs, which means that whoever did this is not only incompetent, but stuffed.
I don’t disagree that it’s also about workers taking time off, I disagree on the ‘mainly’ angle.
A public health crisis caused by a measles epidemic is enormously expensive, dangerous and disruptive. Take you’re pick, depending on your level of cynicism, about the main reason for health authorities advocating vaccinations, but there are a lot of parents in Wales doing mea culpas right now.
+3 Rosy and NickS, I’m with you guys where it is available and population penetration is achievable.
And what were the odds ratio between vaccinated and unvaccinated kiddies getting sick?
Were vaccinated kiddies really 50x or 100x less likely to fall sick than unvaccinated kiddies. Or only 20x or 10x or 5x or 3x.
Wouldn’t you feel shit if you were a parent who made your kiddies take all their vaccines and they fell sick anyway. The empiricists would say we have no idea why but just your bad luck then I suppose.
🙄
By the Elder Things you can be fucking stupid sometimes.
It all comes down to biochemistry, i.e. everything is chemical and chemical interactions are messy and have these things called “probabilities” involved and so despite good environmental conditions, a interaction can go wrong. Scale this thinking up to the biochemistry of immunological memory* and you get multiple avenues for failure even with well designed vaccines even more so when taking into account biological variance. Apply population thinking and volia, an explanation becomes readily apparent.
Details of which can be found in a variety of textbooks dealing with biochemistry, cell biology and immunology. So go edumacate yourself.
______________________________________________________
*gene-expression, antigen binding, protein-protein interactions, mutations, the list is huge once you get into the fine details)
Lots of mechanisms it’s just too bad the organism ain’t a machine.
Yeah, “bad luck” and “educated misconception” (or whatever technical terminology you want to use) still overpowers all that fancy stuff.
/facepalm
Ye gads, how hard is it for you to fucking think? My short explanation relies heavily on how biochemical systems interact within an organism at multiple levels. So I can only assume you lack even a rudimentary background in basic organism to cell biology…
Fuck, even assuming that I’m using a machine analogy is an act of grand stupidity. So in future, try sanity checking your assumptions first…
had to take a few long slow breaths before posting this as the first draft of the comment was not fit for public disclosure.
I cannot describe the sickening hatred I currently wish to express towards the New Zealand Herald upon seeing this despicable piece of bile. Despite recent attempts of pure gutter-journalism in NZ MSM, this is perhaps the lowest point in the history of New Zealand ‘journalism’ and the associated global publication of this vile ‘event’ can do nothing but foster hate and bigotry. I do not think i am overstating it to say in many minds this will forever tarnish the reputation of New Zealand media.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10877196
the NZ Herald advocating for a return to public floggings.
I think its an interesting exercise.
I would have given the defendant in Case 1, less time I think – but I would like to know what the verbal argument was about at the pub leading up to the incident.
Case 2, why didn’t her husband sign off on home detention, so she does community service instead – seems reasonable enough.
“I think its an interesting exercise.” thank you for confirming all of my fears as to the type of person that would be attracted to this sort of ugliness.
Isn’t that pretty much what Bill English did? She should get the same sentence as him.
After a constant barrage of pro gay marriage propaganda from the NZ Herald it has finally published a great piece defending marriage – but the Granny does then give another pro gay “marriage” peddler an unchallenged right of reply.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10877696
Rex Ahdar presents an excellent argument for protecting marriage:
” Two visions of marriage confront us. The conjugal model says that marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman. The partnership model says marriage is a contract between committed, loving couples.”
While the pro gay Clements avoids the issue, carrying on emotionally about being “grossly offended” by Ahdar and serving up the predictable mawkish “Love love love!” non argument.
You do realise that your marriage won’t be affected by Louisa Wall’s bill, right?
Why do you believe heterosexual marriages won’t be affected?
What do you believe the bill is actually doing to marriage?
Null hypothesis.
Fucking google it.
Angry Nick doesn’t like having his precious pro gay “marriage” opinion challenge.
Again, straight foward questions you seem desperate to avoid answering, why is that Nick?
Here let me put them to you again:
Why do you believe heterosexual marriages won’t be affected?
What do you believe the bill is actually doing to marriage?
why do you believe they will be affected?
are you saying that traditional marriage is so weak that a “bunch of poofs getting hitched” will bring it down?
As Ahdar so succinctly puts it:
“To redefine marriage (to allow same-sex partners) is to abolish it. Partnership marriage does not keep the existing institution and simply allow more persons to join it. No, it eviscerates it and substitutes a new concept.”
The new concept being that any two consenting adults who so wish may marry?
Who does that harm, exactly?
i dont think he actually knows
🙄
I love ignorant, arrogant righties (as much as love those on the left, anti-GMO nuts be nasty), they’re so fun to cluebat :3
At it’s simplest, a Null Hypothesis (Ho) is that treatment/factor x will produce no significant change in a system under observation, and needs to be shown to be incorrect via empirical evidence. More fun follows as you need to have support for an alternative hypothesis over other alternative hypotheses + mechanisms of action, all backed up by empirical evidence.
The Ho here is so that allowing same sex marriage will have effect on heterosexual marriage, namely rate of, length and divorce rates, however while you and other opponents are quite happy to ask multiple question, you’re yet to show us any fucking evidence. Other than your poor hurt feelings, which from a human rights angle are not sufficient rational to deny others their secular human rights*.
Empiricism, it’s not that fucking hard.
Nor is human rights.
And yet it seems some are utterly incapable of grasping such simple concepts…
_________________________________________________
*Human Rights act basically, if you don’t like it please be aware that it also protects your right to believe whatever religious nonsense you want, thus giving you protection from discrimination by fundamentalist arsehats.
Nick uses “logic”.
It’s super effective!
k_p is now too terrified to reply!
Where you have you actually applied what you write in here into real life Nick, perhaps you can tell everyone how your life experience gives you such wide reaching awareness and a /smugface outlook on clue-batting!
I’ll not hold half a breath,
Which is why you did a roll-eyes runner from our earlier conversation, because your self belief is built on a pile of quicksand, which you have no real control over, and no desire to step out of your comfort zone!
Super effective my A.R.S.E – Its all theory and SFA else!
This geo-engineered climate stuff muzza; is it in addition to AGW / nonA GW / regional models etc?
Hey ghostrider
I suggest a re-route of the question to McFlock, given he’s certain nothing is going on, I’ll assume he spent some time reaching that conclusion, paying attention, knowing what to look at/for etc…
Let me know how the response comes along….
Peace
Yes.
Getting a bit petulant there, muzz. Full moon getting to you?
🙄
k-p
Just get on with the relationship building in your own marriage, that’s the main thing. And leave other people to work on their own healthy relationships.
Why don’t gays get on with relationship building in their own civil unions and leave heterosexual marriages alone?
Gays are leaving heterosexual marriages alone. Now if you would just leave gay marriages alone we’ll all be sweet.
Civil unions aren’t exclusively same-sex, dude.
Because lesbians. Angry. Short hair. Grrrrrrrr.
because theres nothing saying you have to marry a gay person perhaps?
As you quoted from Ahdar yourself:
“To redefine marriage (to allow same-sex partners) is to abolish it. Partnership marriage does not keep the existing institution and simply allow more persons to join it. No, it eviscerates it and substitutes a new concept.”
Of course you then start trash talking Ahdar, without actually addressing his argument.
of course i trash talked him “We did not invent hedgehogs, we simply named them” – pretty sure we invented marriage. Did it exist before? do hedgehogs marry?
I trash talked him because his argument is crap
“To redefine marriage (to allow same-sex partners) is to abolish it” – how does that happen exactly?
ive addressed it – his argument is full of holes, straight people wont go to hades for putting up with gay marriage.
No. The godless bastards have casual sex very, very carefully.
And Nanny Ogg used to sing a song along those lines…
well there you go – no god = prickles up your privates
it’s all those deranged feminist PC hedgehogs on the DPB that piss me off.
and the p dealing – dont forget the p dealing
godless little bastards!
” It has a true essence, a fundamental nature; it is a real phenomenon, not just a human invention or convention. A hedgehog is a hedgehog, a tree is a tree, a river is a river. We did not invent hedgehogs, we simply named them. We can call a cat a hedgehog if we want but that does not change its essential nature. All it does is lead to confusion.”
“To redefine marriage (to allow same-sex partners) is to abolish it”
“They lack the inherent structure to rear well-rounded, psychologically secure children.”
“But arguments based on equality are empty. To insist upon equality is to require that “like things are treated alike””:
the guy is bat shit bonkers KP – hes a fricken law professor and he spouts garbage like that? This article has been roundly debunked as flimsy reasoning already. Its not an excellent argument – its a poorly constructed, fools argument.
Marriage means only what the immediate people entering the marriage want it to mean
What have you got against gay people enjoying the same legal rights as anyone else?
What gives you, me or anyone else the right to say “Thats mine – its not for you”?
I will give you a puzzle to ponder.
My elderly, straight, aunt married her long term gay, male best friend. Why? because the cared deeply, nay, loved each other – they wanted to declare their commitment to each other and they wanted to ensure they had some say in matters relating to wills, hospitalisation and other matters – considering that had nothing to do with sex or child rearing, should that have been disallowed?
If they were allowed to marry just because of the nature of their private parts, why the hell cant two men or two woman get married?
“My elderly, straight, aunt married her long term gay, male best friend. Why? because the cared deeply, nay, loved each other”
They are faking it though, shame on them.
Because some rat bags fake it, gays should be allowed to do it?
Following your argument a grandma and grand daughter should be allowed to get married cos its all about LURV!
That is bat shit bonkers.
That’s why
“This article has been roundly debunked as flimsy reasoning already. Its not an excellent argument – its a poorly constructed, fools argument. ”
Liar. You need to start facing the truth, mate.
“They are faking it though, shame on them.
Because some rat bags fake it, gays should be allowed to do it?”
who the fuck are you to pass judgment on my family members? – do you know them?
I think you need to apologise
What are they faking, exactly?
That they are attracted to each other, in love, whatever you want to call it.
My god you’re so drunk on PC Feminist propaganda you can’t even see the obvious?
Whew! I’m glad its not just teh gayz you’re bigotted against KP, all those fake arranged marriages by Johnny and Mrs Foreigner need to be anulled toot sweet, too. They can start with that German woman whose face is on our money and her Greek so called ‘husband’ Phil. Thanks for clearing that up.
You’ve admitted before that you can’t find any reference to me writing about pc feminist propaganda so I’ll thank you to keep your descriptions of me to those which you can actually ascertain.
Who says two people have to be attracted to each other sexually in order to marry?
“You’ve admitted before that you can’t find any reference to me writing about pc feminist propaganda so I’ll thank you to keep your descriptions of me to those which you can actually ascertain.”
LOL, who are you trying to kid, girlfriend! You are hardcore Feminist, like the other Power Girls, Princess of Thorns and Karol, you are always spewing Feminist received wisdom – patriarchy, essentialism, cisgender, rape culture.
All standard Sociology/Arts Department Wimmins Studies 101 drivel.
Anyway I thought you got the huffs with me and weren’t going to talk to me anymore?
“You are hardcore Feminist, like the other Power Girls, Princess of Thorns and Karol, you are always spewing Feminist received wisdom – patriarchy, essentialism, cisgender, rape culture.”
Every time you say this, I ask you to show where I’ve done so.
So far you have never once managed to point to any such thing I’ve said.
I patiently ask again: Please point to my writing on feminism, hardcore or otherwise.
“Who says two people have to be attracted to each other sexually in order to marry?”
Well if you believe that then surely you believe a grandma and a granddaughter should be allowed to get married.
no, because thats incest.
Please tell us you actually know the difference, im starting to get worried for your soul
How is it incest if they are not attracted sexually, they are not engaged in sexually conjugation with each other?
OK – ill admit that incest is specifically about sexual contact – but your whole grandma grand daughter thing is pretty stupid
see – its not that hard to admit you got something wrong
and here comes the long winded name calling – you do realise KP that it just confirms what we are all thinking – youve run out of argument
No you are the one who has no argument or should I say a defeated one.
You refuse to engage in the points I’ve made, or those expressed in the Ahdar article.
Telling you went into a rant about Ahdar being all BS with no counter argument to his.
yet you seem to think equating same sex relationships with incest is some sort of argument?
shit mate – you havent made a single coherent original statement through this whole thread.
you also havent answered one single question with anything that addresses the content of the question
Are you gay?
Just wondering because you seem to have flipped out big time.
nope – straight as, but would it make a difference? – been with the same woman for nearly 14 years. my best friend since we were both about 16 – im now past 40
i just hate putting up with fools when it comes to living in a secular society
and since when does asking a few questions and having a few hedge hog jokes equate to flipping out?
And its almost cute the way or strut your stuff and fling the muck about then go all coy and ask me if im flipping out – your not trying to marry me are you?
what are they faking KP – a short answer will do
“Following your argument a grandma and grand daughter should be allowed to get married cos its all about LURV!”
never said that – whats next? You gonna say its a prelude to someone marrying their dog or toddler?
your still avoiding the central issue though – in a secular democratic society that is meant to recognise that we are all equal before the law, what give you me or anyone else the right to claim that we can enjoy a right and deny it to others at the same time?
“never said that ”
But its there in your principle stupid -> “its all about LURV!”
You lot just keep going around in ever decreasing philosophical circles. And it comes back to what Ahdar articulates about 2 concepts of marriage – conjugal and contractual.
You want to erase the former with the later – but you don’t say this to the NZ public, you disingenuously claim that marriage won’t be affected, that its just about making it “more inclusive”.
an argument for love doesnt equal and argument for beastiality, pedophillia or incest
im not trying to erase anything – you need to prove that allowing gay marriage will bring about the erasure of procreation for that to be true
and as for going around in circles – perhaps responding to the actual questions put to you would allow us to move forward? It would seem you are the one creating the circle we must follow because you avoid the substance of the rebutal
“you need to prove that allowing gay marriage will bring about the erasure of procreation for that to be true”
BS. Look mate you are not even paying attention to the opposition’s argument. And you don’t seem to have much understanding of your own argument.
You are the one saying marriage is only about love, your example given is an older woman and a gay guy who love each other. So what about a grandma and a grand daughter who love each other?
“You are the one saying marriage is only about love”
where did i say that? – all i gave is a real world example of a marriage that doesnt fit the judeo christian model
and did you not say “conjugal and contractual. You want to erase the former with the later”?
seems your the one not paying attention
still waiting for the aplogy for slandering people who arent here to defend them selves – what are you? some sort of cad? a bounder perhaps?
Marriage of gay guy and unrelated straight woman allows them to be, legally, a family. Grandma and granddaughter are already a family. Born that way. Your comparison makes no sense.
“your still avoiding the central issue though – in a secular democratic society that is meant to recognise that we are all equal before the law, what give you me or anyone else the right to claim that we can enjoy a right and deny it to others at the same time?”
As Ahdar points out:
“The use of the slogan “equality” cleverly skews the debate…[Thus Team Gay Marriage can dodge ] having to demonstrate why the new model deserves to replace the existing institution.”
thats not an answer to the question. Stop posting quotes and do some of your own thinking.
Try formulating a word, then stick a few together – bongo! thats a sentence.
Then when youve got that under control – stick a few of those sentence thingies together and whaddya know – its a freaking paragraph!
It is a devastating reply to your mangled argument.
I will continue to quote Ahdar, he has produced a very articulate argument – not surprising from a man of obvious sharp intellect.
You just can’t handle it can you, framu.
what? your failure to say something original from your own brain? Nah mate, cant handle that – dont like talking to robots
To be honest – im feeling a bit left out. Surely ive earned one of your multi adjective insults by now? What gives?
” your failure to say something original from your own brain? ”
You have only put foward the standard pro gay marriage argument, you have provided no original argument.
” dont like talking to robots”
So quoting from a source is wrong? You haven’t got a university education have you?
” Surely ive earned one of your multi adjective insults by now? What gives?”
As compared to you lot who are just all sweetness and nice! ( Especially Princess of Thorns, lol )
“So quoting from a source is wrong?”
not at all – but if thats all youve got it makes you look like you dont have much else to say.
So what if my argument isnt unique – at least i can argue my corner with my own words – and answer the questions put to me at the same time!
im still interested in the whole same sex relationship somehow being the same as incest thing
Reply links still not showing.
framu -> “So what if my argument isnt unique – at least i can argue my corner with my own words”
Oh ok so first I’m guilty of not being orginal but now you admit you arent saying anything original.
So now you change it: apparently you think you are superior because I use some relevant quotes.
[lprent: The system only indents 9 levels of reply. You are currently trying to reply at level 10. That is why there are no reply buttons. ]
for god sake!
“original from your own brain” – note the “from your own brain” bit
like i said – if all your going to do is post quotes you obviously dont have much to say.
If you do have something to say then say it, dont fling the insults about and engage honestly with the responses
Calling equality a “slogan” is a “devastating argument”?
I suppose that’s why George Wallace had the moral high ground all though the 1960s.
Calling equality a “slogan” is a “devastating argument”?
See there you go, twisting and squirming.
pro gay “marriage” proponents USING equality as a “slogan”.
except they’re not – rex (and you) are saying that. Own it
Still no long winded insult yet – sigh 🙁
perhaps rooting a godless hedgehog will lift my spirits? – i could even marry one 🙂
Just working off your quote, kp.
I’m not getting any Reply links on your recent posts so here goes:
McFlock “Just working off your quote, kp. ->
“The use of the slogan “equality” cleverly skews the debate…”
Well McFlock, do you not understand the use of the quote marks around the word equality that Ahdar puts there?
Again are you really that stupid or is it just more game playing?
framu -> “OK – ill admit that incest is specifically about sexual contact – but your whole grandma grand daughter thing is pretty stupid”
Its stupid because it is the result of YOUR argument that marriage is a contract between two people in love, nothing else. It illustrates the failure of your argument.
The conjugal argument doesnt have to allow for that as you say pretty stupid arrangement because it is comprehensive.
no KP its stupid because its stupid – dont make me accountable for your words
its the same kind of stupid as the “so you want to make it legal to marry your dog” argument
and again – i never claimed marriage is only about love – all i did was highlight a real world example of a lawfull marriage that doesnt fit the moral arguments being made by the anti gay marriage crowd.
The whole point of it was to highlight that it exists yet doesnt fit. If it already exists why are other marriages that dont fit be not allowed when that one is?
please engage with the question for once
Dont make me point that out a third time!
MODS – thats the last im saying on this topic – apologies for filling up the comments this much
Yes. They denote the thing that the author is calling a slogan. Because “The use of the slogan equality cleverly skews the debate…” would indicate that using equality between two or more slogans skews the debate. At the very best, it is possible the author assumes that “using the slogan ‘x'” has the same meaning as “is using X as a slogan”.
All you’re doing is editorialising a poorly-written and poorly-conceived rant against the state regarding different sexual orientations as equal (with the same rights and without religious or cultural prejudice). You then pretend that your wishful inferences were the explicit phrases the author used. They’re not.
“My elderly, straight, aunt married her long term gay, male best friend”
According to k_p’s previous comments on the topic, if your Aunt is post-menopausal then he wouldn’t approve of her marrying anyone.
All about the procreation, see.
There are words for people like you, who insist on trying to insert yourselves in consenting adults’ bedrooms against their own wishes. About the only such word which is actually repeatable in polite company is ‘defendant’.
A quick online search shows Ahdar is pro-child smacking:
“The arguments for banning corporal punishment are philosophically suspect, linguistically strained and not supported by the rather limited research evidence. The authors conclude that the present law on parental smacking should remain.”
http://familyintegrity.org.nz/2004/significant-quote-rex-ahdar-james-allan/
http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/04/04/rocket-powered-by-nuclear-fusion-could-send-humans-to-mars/
😀
And forget Mars, with this tech the asteroid belt is within easy reach, as is Saturn and Jupiter’s moons and so all the ice (water, oxygen, heavy water for fusion reactor/thruster fuel), organics and minerals*, human colonisation of the solar system could ever need. Although the power system for this fusion thruster would probably need a nuclear reactor to power it, which at this stage, would probably be a modified US Naval reactor. And if the Lockheed Martin fusion reactor proves viable, that could also work as a power source.
However, the thrust is only 0.004g, so very long term missions would require centrifuges to maintain astronaut health. But given this system can keep the thrust up fairly constantly, even large space vessels shouldn’t be too much of an issue.
___________________________________________
*With the right minerals, hydroponics mediums are easy to make + organic crud you’ve got pretty much all you need to seed a biosphere for food production. Combine it with a power source and any permanent or long term human occupied bases can be semi-self sufficient and self-sufficient in the long term once manufacturing systems are established.
http://www.buildtheenterprise.org/
Although, I wouldn’t build the enterprise as using today’s tech it’s too impractical. I’d be more likely to build something like this.
Last link’s not showing anything 😛
Interesting – does for me.
Try this one.
ty and yeah, the fusion rocket could easily shift a ship that big. As would VASMIRS and other ion-based thruster arrays
As for the Enterprise, it’s an iconic design, but bloody impractical from an engineering perspective 😛
I see things breaking off really easily if it has to make sharp turns even with titanium structural framing.
Oh, I figure even the ion drives that are suggested on http://www.buildtheenterprise.org/ would work. The real hard part would be the cooling of the fission reactors as radiant cooling just isn’t that good.
That would apply if it made sharp turns which it can’t – with today’s technology we’re pretty much limited to a straight line push. I consider it impractical because of the way he’s configured the gravity wheel. That’s an accident waiting to happen that will tear the whole ship apart. Then there’s all that added mass in the iconic design that requires more fuel and energy to push around.
I happen to think that building such a ship is a great idea.
Beam me up Number 19
Question time in Parliament:
Peters has Key on the ropes. Catches him out in yet another lie, and then … runs out of supp questions (small parties have fewer allocated).
Perfect opportunity for Labour to pounce … “Point of order/Supp Q: Is he seriously saying he can’t remember more than one call?”
But … silence. Nothing. Labour’s questions already wasted by their irrelevant leader. Fucking useless.
Absolutley pointless behaviour by Labour, and some incredibly weak questioning by their members. The Speaker though is getting worse every session. He has no control of the Government benches in the House and is visibly rattled by the importance of the topics and his inadequate dealings with them
Blinglish though 🙂 “the Mighty River Shower” pure gold 😉
as Peters asked ‘What is the point of Question time?’
under the current make up, one must wonder if Winston doesn’t have a point
Good work at the end by Robertson, Norman, Peters … getting the PM to dig a deeper hole, and even admit that he’s clueless!
If an MP can think on his/her feet, they can trap Key and make a fool or liar out of him. But there’s one MP who can never think on his feet, and – inexplicably – he happens to be the (ceremonial) leader of the opposition.
Yes. On all points.
And the more “clueless” Key looks, and the MSM pick up on it, the more his “I can’t answer because I don’t have that information with me” will backfire on him.
Shearer is the best National MP in the house. He has to go.
DoC funding cuts were savage a few weeks ago. Now Key has announced that he is going to give many more millions to Tourism but only for ‘high end’ tourists. What/who are they? The big gamblers and/or the ones who hate the environment? Rich gamblers who own mining companies perhaps?
Is anyone listening to Question Time?
audio is constantly dropping out and feed is generally crap today
Did you see Key say emphatically he couldn’t remember where he got Fletcher’s telephone number…followed by “oh I got it from Directory service”.
He was then told he couldn’t get mobile numbers from directory assistance to which he said “It was redirected”.
Talk about making shit up as you go.
He’s dug himself a hole.
I find the whole ‘I forgot about the phone call, it was a supplementary question, 16 seconds to answer’ routine to be bullshit.
He was asked what role he played in the appointment, and said none, the SSC appointed him..
That’s not forgetting a phone call; it’s forgetting that the short list was rejected, that there was then discussion about what to do, that you suggested Fletcher, then rang him, and that the guy who was appointed was the guy you suggested and rang.
Fuck knows why he’s bullshitting, but it’s bullshit.
Some of it may have worked as almost credible if he wasn’t grinning out of his arse everytime he mentions the issue in the House. Complete contrast to the impersonation of a concerned statesman he presents when the general public see him on the MSM.
I just don’t know how “I don’t remember” can turn into “not only does it seem I can remember but I can also remember very specific details”.
I watch question time everyday and this one really got my head scratching (as well as Peters and his pronounced slurring)
and he now cannot remember how many times he called Ian fletcher?
oh sorry in the interest of fairness
“I don’t have that information [at this time]”
“I just don’t know how “I don’t remember” can turn into “not only does it seem I can remember but I can also remember very specific details”.”
It’s not complicated TC, he’s bullshitting. Non-stop.
as Contrarian points out above
John Key in the House,
when asked how he had the phone number of Ian Fletcher replied: ” No clue”
then he says he asked Queensland Directory for the number wtf?
making it up as he goes along
He wraps it up by ‘correcting’ his answer to say that he had someone in his office make the call and they were redirected to Ian Fletcher’s phone.
So, this should be easily cleared up by a simple audit of the calls to Queensland Directory made from the PM’s office. A very small list I would imagine as the PM’s office has access to every number in Queensland that the office could possibly require via the numerous inter-agency relationships between NZ and Australia. My bet is the GCSB and friends, just to be safe, are frantically installing said metadata on Queensland Directory files asap.
It’s amazing what you can find in the telephone directories! The usual chocolate fish to the first to spot the PM:
25+ items – Details of Identities By Phone (856)354-08XX. Please select the …
0812/(856)354-0812/0 Dunn, Okeyo Lupe 810 Pennsylvania Avenue Cherry …
0819/(856)354-0819/0 Carr, Brett William 210 Jefferson Ave Haddonfield …
Very strange behaviour re phone calls @ Question Time.
a. Cagey about how many times he called Ian Fletcher. Therefore there must be some reason for this being worth the question. What else is already known?
b. He was quite emphatic at various times when asked. He said that he pulled out his phone and phoned Ian.
Now he says that he got someone to call directories and found out that way.
(But Directories do not give out cell phone numbers.)
Note that the Opposition thought his answers very funny. Govt benches did not.
Surreal
was thinking about what visual art i like about then, and after Hotere and Chagall, thought the surrealists. Dali, Bosch etc
“Now he says that he got someone to call directories”
Not quite ianmac. He said he might have got someone in his office to call directory or he might have done it himself.
His staff will have pointed out after question time that the “directory” story he made up on the hoof could easily come back to bite him if it turns out the number wasn’t listed, so he’s gone back to the house and inserted a layer of deniability between himself and his lie.
But he just said it was he that called directory only moments before, so he can’t 180 his story. Hence “might have”. So as far as he recalls it was him, but the moment it turns out that he can’t have got the number that way, he can say “Well it was my office, I don’t know how they got it”.
But as you do, I seem to remember him saying to journalists last week that he already had Fletcher’s number in his phone.
It’s lies about lies covering up lies.
For Christ’s Sake………can anyone really see a busy PM picking up the phone , index finger bang bang bang 018 ? Or whatever the equivalent is for Brisbane if that’s where the guy was at the time ? Unless it was one of those naughty lines he was after.
This takes “I’m an ordinary joker……” just far too far. Like incredibly so.
Read someone on TS saying Key’s lost his political judgment. Seems like it. Or it’s his knowledge that there’s something really cagey hovering just below the surface and he’s rattled. Spooked. Shitting. So he talks unguided broken biscuits. Like it’s Wall Street ’29.
I’ll be watching Amy Adams’ reactions. She’s the one behind and one seat to the left of The Ponce. Dependable for the overstated shaking of the head and the sneering “I don’t know” smiles at the questions Dunnokeyo stands up like a jack-in-the-box to answer, utters “Rhubarb !” or something similarly potent, then sits down quick and hard.
Bet your bottom dollar that the more demonstrative she gets the more she’s really wondering……????? About God. Such is the stuff of a cheap bottle blonde Tory baggage ex-real estate agent or whatever she was before the none-too-attractive snout dived deep into the trough.
Think that’s Louise Upston, senior govt whip you’re thinking of there.
And this government pours millions more into education – in private schools. Plenty of government money for the rich – not so much for everyone else.
Interesting – The Conservatives’ first election outing has resulted in the election commission referring two candidates to the police “for filing a false Candidate Election Expenses and Donations Return”.
Including tory-for-hire Larry Baldock.
yep and that’s not the gospel
This crap with Key has been going on for a long time. The Maori Party have a very clear C&S agreement yet the Maori Party have not been asked a single question on any of it.
I posted this on 05/04 when the Rennie statements were being made:
Why have we heard nothing from the Maori Party about this?
Are integrity in Government and transparency of process not important to them?
from the C&S Agreement:
“It is agreed that relevant spokespeople within the Māori Party will be briefed on significant issues which are likely to be politically sensitive before any public announcements are made.”
+
“*Advance notification to the other party of significant announcements by either the National lead Government or the Māori Party”
+
“* Briefings by the National led Government on significant issues before any public announcement”
– so when the PM diligently told the Co-Leaders of the Maori Party about the appointment of our top spy, did either of them ask about the appointment process? If so, why then did the Maori Party stay silent in the House when the PM lied to Parliament? (and continue to be mute on the topic)
Why have the Maori Party not been asked about the real world application of these basic foundations of co-operation in their C&S agreement with the Government?
– these C&S points are also interesting when considering the Mighty River Power and the Solid Energy fiascoes.
Toryana Torya and Peter Potato Sharples. Only Maori in Aotearoa who really, really, really needed a friend called John.
79% want sea protest law change reviewed or stopped
The majority want it dropped altogether:
Haven’t read the 203 comments above so this might be superfluous but My God, how Freudian of that smarmy little punk Simon Bridges in Parliament today, speaking on his blooding in the passing of anti-democratic, anti-protest legislation directed at decent New Zealanders:
Bridges – “……..sends a message that this regime is supportive……..”
Too right it does ! Supportive of what and whom ? The dogs in the street know.
Typically, the up-himself little ex-Crown prosecutor has not an ounce of insight into what his glib wee words reveal. Watch the hubris grow and grow and grow.
An unctuous self-seeker entertaining nil principle.
regime indeed ; I was thinking how defensive you must need to be Jafa.
Talking about ‘regime’ – Wikipedia explanation is –
Modern usage
While the word regime originates as a synonym for any form of government, modern usage often gives the term a negative connotation, implying an authoritarian government or dictatorship.
I think that this meaning is closest to the little Bridges creep’s reference. He must have difficulty with his shoes – having to get two right ones all the time. Probably can afford them being custom-made.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/15/17762930-pope-francis-reiterates-radical-feminist-criticism-of-us-nuns-group
Interesting Aussie perspective on why NZ has spawned a diaspora (and how little John Key cares):
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/all-blacks-only-light-as-kiwis-search-for-hope/story-e6frezz0-1226621044644
Read it just for a journo who doesn’t fall all over themselves loving John Key and has a working bullshit-detector.
Thanks for that link Blue. Go Anita Quigley ! Read it folks. Very interesting. Maybe Johnny Wanker ain’t the darling in the world beyond these shores that he claims he is ?
Saved the Thatcher thing on TVOne. Halfway through watching it. What a shameless hagiography if ever there was one !
Strange – “hag” = “ugly old woman”, according to a reliable dictionary. Gonna delete it now and off to my Sleepyhead. Up early tomorrow starch my wing collar for the 8 million pound funeral.
Margaret Thatcher is having most pompy funeral since Winston Churchill. What a smear on his memory. Belittles him really. And he may have liked her – British establishment to the core and all that. But his commitment to the country at war elevates him above any right wing peccadilloes he had.