[Please note, we are trialling something new for Open Mike and Daily Review.
In order to keep OM and DR free for other conversations, all comments, link postings etc about the US election now need to go in the dedicated US election discussion here.
If you are unsure, post in that thread rather than here. It’s not possible for moderators to shift comments from OM to there, so any comments here may get deleted.
The housing crisis is really hitting home around here. Next door sold within 10 days of being on the market, a sharp contrast considering it was on the market for a couple of months a few years back before being sold. Welcome to Motueka, most of the ‘for sale’ signs have sold stickers on them.
My sister is about to find herself homeless, the investor that owns the rental she is in decided to put it on the market, it sold within 10 days. She’s been looking for anything for her and her son for the last 4 weeks, she has two weeks left to find some where, but there is nowhere, rentals are let out within hours of being advertised, she’s even going to open homes to ask real estate agents if a property investors are potential buyers, she’s doing everything she can to find a home.
I’m now cleaning out one of my garages, lucky it’s coming into summer. Her son has one term left at primary school, my place is 30 mins away on the open road to his school, changing his school at this stage is not an option. Did I mention she is working?
Housing crisis is causing massive mental health issues and stress for so many, it’s not just an Auckland issue, I’ve never seen my sister so stressed, and she is just one working parent with a child, it’s heartbreaking.
Thanks but she does not live in Motueka, she lives in Richmond.
A quick look on trade me says there are 2 places with 2 bedrooms in her price range, but Tapawera is 45mins on the open road away from her sons school.
There are 4 places in her price range on trade me, but they are all one bedrooms. JS
Do you have any rentals in Richmond James?
She is my sister by love not by blood, sadly her mum has passed away, I’m all she has. Planting a massive vege garden this year, excess veges are given away free at my gate, it’s all part of making a good community
Good for you on all counts Cinny. I hope you all find a better way soon, and it’s heartening to hear about what you do to make it work in the meantime. James’ comment was incredibly ignorant, and worse, the whole implied neoliberal slant of you’re not trying hard enough, I know what’s best, has just been shown up by your generosity, self-reliance, and ingenuity. Kia kana.
IKR, I’m like sheez if this is taking such a toll on her, one can only begin to imagine the stress for thousands like her, and those with children. And how can renters have the security of a home with speculators flicking off properties for gain, worries about the residents, profit over people. It’s a disgrace.
The housing crisis is a reality for white middle class NZ, among thousands of others hurting. Landlords are taking the cream with accommodation supplements aplenty, and the ability to pick and choose crippling rent prices. The outgoing government does nothing, no capital gains, no rent caps, nothing to prevent speculators milking the system for all they can, no matter where in the world they reside.
Hi Garth Barefoot, made any more donations to the outgoing government? No doubt your real estate empire will be making a very tidy profit.
This is what i have been saying for the longest time.
It is not only AKL it is everywhere.
And the move out of Auckland (insert what ever other city might apply) and move to the country side is not helping as it fucks up the housing market there.
Fact is there are not enough houses in NZ to keep up with standard population growth and continued unrestricted migration (those that come to live and work and those the only come to buy a speculation object or several).
yep it is unacceptable that so many desperate people make the choice they do and the families, loved ones and whānau left behind with so many questions and effects that do resonate through generations.
Kia kaha to all.”
[sorry marty, short of deleting the conversation below (which we try not to do) I can’t do much to put it elsewhere. Thanks for reposting. – weka]
I’m sorry – (and this is not aimed specifically at the poster above) it pisses me off when people on this blog use sucicide stats to have a crack at the government yet are happy to tell people on here to do things like hang themselves should they have a different view to them.
This behaviour has generally gone unchecked by other posters – as opposed to trying to stop bullying behaviour that can actually lead people to self harm.
but sadly for some posters on here – telling a righty to kill themselves is all good. As I have said before – I hope they never have to live with that kind of pain in their family – it’s a hard way to learn what damage their actions can cause.
“Richardrawshark 9.1.1.1
16 June 2016 at 11:55 am
I think fisi BM Bob, Little’s words that you are on about were “bla bla this deal LOOKS dodgy”.
I remember the interview very well
At no time did he come out in public saying it WAS a dirty deal.
Then Hagaman threatened a law suit if he didn’t retract, well why would he the deal looks dodgy. It’s just a statement of fact.
You guys are pathetic. hang yourselves, it’ll be easier now than after the election when the NZ public massively vote red green or anything but blue.”
[Right, you’ve provide one example below. Now you need to provide two more examples in the next hour (you seem to think ‘people’ not person are doing this), and provide the actual links this time so I can see the context. As a moderator I am interested in anyone telling other commenters to kill themselves and anyone here can bring that to the moderators attention.
However it is completely unacceptable to do it in the way you have done as a major derailment of an incredibly serious topic. At the least, you could have started a new subthread, and taken more care in how you brought this up. Whatever grievance you have about being abused on this site (you’ve commented on this before), it doesn’t take precedence over the people reading OM today who have had someone they love commit suicide.
It is also not ok to tell lump all commenters into one mass and then make out they are responsible for others’ behaviour e.g. saying that people who comment on suicide also tell people to kill themselves. I am going to ban you for a time, but want to see the links first. You also own marty an apology – weka]
I don’t know if it counts but does someone thinking it’d be hilarious if I got HIV count, I mean I know its not the same as telling someone to go hang themselves but its getting up there
So no, you don’t care to know if, or not, there are children as a result of your irresponsible behaviour.
Wouldn’t it be hilarious if, in the fullness of time, you discovered you have HIV.
(but you know sometimes you have a little too much to drink…)
Maui is right
“We’ve seen all this from rwinger men before. Eww.”
And yuck
[no, it doesn’t count. James was referring to people telling others to kill themselves. That’s not what Brigid said. Also she appears to be being sarcastic to make a point in the middle of somewhat contentious exchange. It was a rude thing to say but I wouldn’t have moderated that myself unless there was an escalation of abuse going on. Honestly, if we moderated everyone who was rude like that, we’d be at it all day and we’d basically be controlling what the conversation was. No-one wants that unless there is a bloody good reason. I probably would have moderated the go hang yourself one by placing a warning. – weka]
The thing was though as I said numerous times on the thread (probably didn’t seem important I guess)
Puckish Rogue 7.2.1.1
16 September 2016 at 9:34 am
Did you happen to notice this sentence by any chance?
“But yeah the law should be amended at the very least or dropped altogether and hopefully National will”
See I thought that was pretty clear but I guess not
followed by
Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.2.1
16 September 2016 at 10:20 am
Well first off I don’t know that I have any, I was usually pretty good with protection (but you know sometimes you have a little too much to drink…) so I don’t know that I have any
Secondly as I stated previously:
“But yeah the law should be amended at the very least or dropped altogether and hopefully National will”
So I guess the answer is I’d like the law to get dropped then my taxes can towards paying all solo mums fairly
And as for pointing out the consequences of my actions (from over a decade ago) you don’t think that contracting HIV is a tad over the top?
This just illustrates my points later on, people didn’t even bother to note that I was supportive of solo parents getting paid fairly but instead people focused on the supposed “nasty” comments I made (whoever here hasn’t had a one night stand or unprotected sex then please feel free to cast the first stone) to justify their own actions
They pointed out a consequence of your own behaviour…
So, if someone was to comment that it’s hilarious when gays or IV drug users get HIV, they’d just be helpfully pointing out a consequence of those people’s behaviour? I don’t think so.
…that you see it as threatening or bullying is interesting.
That you see it as anything other than abusive is interesting. I don’t have any great complaint to make against abusive comments, but let’s not pretend they’re something different from what they are.
Show me where I had a “crack at the government” above. In fact I didn’t mention them at all.
What pisses me off is rwnj’s who shit all over serious topics because they are too thick and dim to just stfu about things they don’t or can’t understand or care about.
Far from shitting over serious topics – this is close to my heart and I take it very seriously. Sadly I know a bit about it.
I stated that I wasn’t talking specifically about you. I was simply building on your comment.
But – hey good on you – someone talks about the bully behaviour on this blog (as opposed to robust debate) and the damage it can cause and you counter with “take your bullshit and fuck off”
I don’t want anyone to commit suicide, even RWNJ…… So maybe you can ask your leader ShonKey to focus on the people, not just his money and power……. And leave little girls hair alone as well….. Fkn creepy.
Ive never communicated with John Key – so not much I can do there – but I DO communicate with people on blogs – why not start there?
Whats wrong with a “bottom up” approach to helping people, to stop behaviour which can cause such terrible outcomes.
Would we not be better as a society for this?
People are happy to call out “rape apologist”, but in general are happy to go with a pack mentality to “attack” others who they dont agree with. Isnt that just as bad?
Inclined to agree with james here, there is a serious problem of bullying on this site, not a good look at all, you moderators need to get together and sort out a code and then apply it consistantly and to everyone, including yourselves
[don’t tell the moderators/authors what to do. Reread the Policy. You and James will now both take yourselves out of this subthread or expect to be banned. See my comment above. If you want to discuss moderation policy on ts, this is NOT the way to do – weka]
Then don’t say nasty and stupid things. Then people would not have to resort to calling you Tory scum, wingnuts, rwnj and other descriptions which fix so well.
You have to admit it is ironic that you get upset when it gets dished back, but many wingnuts are happy to dish it out. Boohoo, is it sad that the poor little leftists have a spin. Sad little Tory rebates finding that hard are they, cry me a river.
Politics is a bit of hardball, if you want it to be nice a cuddly, then stop voting Tory, because the only reaction to the reactionaries is to come out fighting or give up. Remember it’s Tory wind bags like you, who support the creepy one, and his flock of incompetent ministers…
Actually I think we err far too much on the side of robust instead of on building a place where we can learn things, and things can change. At times this place looks like a straight out den of whack the RWer. People see that and stay away and we miss many voices that should be otherwise heard. That includes lefties and righties and people who aren’t on the spectrum.
I agree weka, but most of the time it is driven from some pretty nasty comments to begin with.
Many comments from the Tory club I just find stupid, and as such, I leave alone. But more than a few are actually just nasty, these need to be responded to. It’s not so much whack a Tory rebate, it’s call them out for there repeated nastiness and bereft reasoning.
I for one, am sick of the continued calumny that pours forth from too many Tory commentators on this site.
I disagree, I think adam is justifying his own actions by deciding how I post irrespective of my own intentions
As I posted below if he thinks what I post is nasty then I must be nasty which “allows” him to post nasty replies back
and of course its all the nasty torys fault:
“But more than a few are actually just nasty, these need to be responded to. It’s not so much whack a Tory rebate, it’s call them out for there repeated nastiness and bereft reasoning.”
No I think you use these supposed transgressions as an excuse to vent your spleen.
You dismiss peoples opinions that you disagree with as wind ups, nasty or stupid yet not even considering that the people posting them actually believe those opinions and because those opinions are “nasty” then the people posting them are “nasty” which justifies your comments
Incorrect Robby, I could say that your contribution to this thread is trolling, that you are a troll and you may (or may not be) but I don’t really know what your intentions are, only you know for sure
So adam can say I’m nasty or whatever to justify his own actions but only I know what my intentions are and its on him when he misinterprets what I (or other people he disagrees with) say
What the matter Puckish, feeling a bit exposed that people got your number?
Don’t feel to bad, we all have patterns – yours are just a bit more obvious than most.
I was not actually saying you are nasty Puckish, actually you are one of the Tories here who says the least nasty or stupid things. You play a different game. Again, back to patterns.
But come on Puckish you call people when they say stupid things, is it that the Tory flock, are a bit thin skinned…
“What the matter Puckish, feeling a bit exposed that people got your number?”
– If I had a dollar for everytime someone said they had my number I’d have a lot more money then I do now
“Don’t feel to bad, we all have patterns – yours are just a bit more obvious than most. ”
– Theres that assumption again…
“I was not actually saying you are nasty Puckish, actually you are one of the Tories here who says the least nasty or stupid things. You play a different game. Again, back to patterns.”
– Well thank you for that, a while back there were some posts on how the site was becoming nasty (especially towards females) so I took some of the stuff on board and have, somewhat, altered the way I post
I’ve actively stopped mentioning anything negative about peoples looks or bodies
As soon as theres anything to do with rape, sexual assault etc then I tread very warily around the subject or indeed not post at all
Basically I’ve tried to improve what I post and how I post it because if we want this site to be a certain way then all of us have to do our part, it shouldn’t be up to the moderators only to police things around here
Essentially I have rule that I only post what I’d be willing to say out loud, in a group setting
“But come on Puckish you call people when they say stupid things, is it that the Tory flock, are a bit thin skinned…”
– If I had major problems with what people said about here I wouldn’t come back but I do think that the occasional threats of violence, death or just plain nastiness that happens is maybe a bit much, robust sure but come on the whole “up against the wall” thing that some (hello Millsy) on here seem to yearn for isn’t going to happen anytime soon
“Okay, thanks for the opportunity, Pucky, I’ll take it.
Have you played the wind up game with people – then played the poor me card?”
Quick answer is no if you mean I’ve wound up people on purpose then played the poor me card
However if we break the question down separately like have I wound people up and played the poor me card then to the first part of the question, yes sometimes depending on the situation but not as often as most people think and probably as much as most others on here do (much like yourself at times)
To the second part I’ll say probably, I mean I can’t think of any times but I’ve also been posting for a very long time so at some point I might have
Now that’s a completely 100% honest answer but I’m curious if anyone will say I’m wrong
“Disarming answer there, Pucky, thanks for making the effort. Tell me, if you will, do you regard saying here, “National will win in 2017” a wind-up?”
A good question, the type of question that might help explain some things.
If I came on here and said National will win in 2017 and I didn’t think they would then yes I’d consider that a wind up as I’m saying something I don’t believe merely to get a reaction out of the posters
However I do believe that National will win in 2017 (most likely in coalition with NZFirst) so its not a wind up because that’s what I think is going to happen
” so its not a wind up because that’s what I think is going to happen”
Here we differ and I suspect others here will feel as I do. Just because you think a certain thing doesn’t justify your repeating it often on a site where most readers and commentors sincerely hope for the opposite of “what you think”. In any case, you are not prefacing your claim with, “I think”, you are usually making the claim bald, as if it was true. I’m certain that you are not a practiced and successful crystal ball gazer, and so your declaration comes across as arrogant, provocative and a wind-up. But you must know this already, Pucky.
Ok thats reasonable but I also normally explain why I think the way I do so its not like I go National will win and then bugger off
“I’m certain that you are not a practiced and successful crystal ball gazer, and so your declaration comes across as arrogant, provocative and a wind-up. But you must know this already, Pucky.”
Its only perceived that way because I’m on the right of the political spectrum, if I posted in the same way but from a left view nobody would say a word
If, as some posters on here seem to want, all right voting posters on here were banned all you’d end up with is Red Alert 2.0 and I don’t think anyone wants that
Hell there are posters on here that want CV gone, is that what you really want, an echo chamber?
In any case, you are not prefacing your claim with, “I think”, you are usually making the claim bald, as if it was true.
There was a running gag on The Good Wife of a judge who demanded lawyers add “in my opinion” to any assertions they made, because it would be unreasonable to expect the court to recognise that assertions rather than expressions of proven facts were being made. Thanks for volunteering Robert, but you’re really going to have your work cut out for you making everyone preface their claims with “I think.” Er… in my opinion.
Psycho Milt – that’s right, requiring an “I think” before every statement would be unnecessary, however, in Pucky’s case, where he is using his “Key will win, Little will lose” regularly, it would be good manners for him to use the preface, as a sign of good faith. He’s moderated his behaviour significantly in recent months and there’s no reason, I believe, why he wouldn’t do us all the favour of qualifying his most irritating claims with a modest, “I think”. Of course, he doesn’t have to do what I suggest, but I’ve noticed that he wants to fit in better, not attract ire and be accepted as a reasonable commenter and adopting my suggestion would help a great deal, in my opinion.
How about this for an idea Robby, how about we all assume that there’s an invisible I think or In my opinion before every statement on this site, you might not see it but its always there…
Ok Robby lets make a bet on the next election if you’re so confident…
When National wins you, at your earliest convenience of course, praise Nationals win and admit that I, Puckish Rogue was right all along and that my predictions are accurate
If Labour win…I’ll praise Labours victory and admit I got it wrong and that my predictions are as accurate as Martin Bradburys
In this instance winning means being part of the next government of course
Cross his palm with silver and Pucky the Mysterious will reveal the True Secrets of Your Future! Be Amazed by Pucky’s Powers, see Up-Coming Events through Pucky’s All-Seeing Eye! Be Be-Dazzled by the Swirling Miasma in Pucky’s Cryptic Crystal Ball. Swoon at the Confidence the All-Knowing Pucky the Mysterious exudes.
* Quality of experience may vary. Satisfaction not guaranteed.
“Then don’t say nasty and stupid things. Then people would not have to resort to calling you Tory scum, wingnuts, rwnj and other descriptions which fix so well.”
Its in your DNA adam…nasty is the automatic go to when someone does not agree with your world views.
As for me I don’t care about any “name calling” I do have a little fun by calling certain people here far left activists 🙂 However the truth of the matter is most NZ’ers are not far left nor far right, rather someone in the middle of those two extremes.
Kept in mind at the end of the day we all need to get along with each other. And that means with people whom do not share the same political leanings as you may do.
So says the conspiracy theorist. You Chucky hide behind civility and an attempt at moderation to justify your hate and use it to have a go at people. Which is funny, you fall in the catagory of stupid most of the time, as you fall for conspiracy theories, or make them up.
So sorry Chucky you are one of the rwnj I try and avoid, except for the occasional reminder to people that you are a hard right conspiracy theorist.
Its in your DNA adam…nasty is the automatic go to when someone does not agree with your world views.
The problem with that argument is that it’s pretty nasty to tell someone that they are genetically predestined to be nasty. What shall we attribute your nastiness to then?
Chuck is a right-wing troll who does not know when to use ‘whom’. He is a hostile who pretends to be an affable mate. I recommend avoidance of contact. Adam – you can see how he misconstrues victories for himself? You are dead right about him.
“He is a hostile who pretends to be an affable mate”
“I recommend avoidance of contact.”
Maybe you would feel safer if I and a large portion of the population are made to wear an arm band…so you and adam know to avoid us when walking down the street 🙂
I think you need to get out of the class room and into the real world.
“Heavens In Vino”
Give it an apostrophe and you’re saying what many people happily believe, Chuck. There’s a lot of truth in Vino’s comment (I’m sure I know his sister, Veritas).
OK I have (re) read the policy. Now I have a genuine question please treat it as such, (even if i have stupedly missed something)
Question : What is the approved process/venue to discuss or raise issues of moderator guidelines/conduct here
[thanks xanthe, I’ve got stuff to do, will reply later – weka]
There isn’t a process, exactly. But if you disagree with a mod’s decision, you can try putting a case via email at thestandardnz@gmail.com. That approach might result, for example, in a ban being shortened.
Generally speaking, the rule of thumb is that the other mods do not overrule a mod’s decision. So if you piss a mod off, expect to have to cop a ban. Whining about it is unlike to change the result.
Bear in mind, all authors and mods are volunteers. We don’t get paid for this and we have to put up with a lot of crap to keep this joint rockin’. The commenters are important to us, but so are the many thousands who just read the posts. We moderate to make sure this site is worth reading, so occasionally that means making decisions like ending a thread because it’s degenerating.
If you really want to influence the moderation on site, start writing posts, become an author, and eventually you’ll get to mod yourself and see how much of a challenge it is.
Thanks TRP I want to make it clear that this is not about challenging any specific ban. I totally get that you have a volunteer job to do and its not an easy task. I actually think that thestandard is an important part of the new zealand political discourse and my sole motive is to assist you in reaching and holding as wide an audence and engagement as possible. I am more concerned with the interactions that lead to a ban. and the methods availiable to the moderators to “moderate” discussion that is veering towards abuse so that it dosnt get to the ban stage.
i will email the address you have given and say no more here for now
What I’ve noticed (on both left and right wing blogs) is that when someone with a differing view comes along then the other side feel “justified” in saying really nasty stuff to that person, stuff they wouldn’t normally say because they consider themselves a “good” person but its almost as if they’ve decided the other person “deserves” it
You can see echoes of it when a female commentator dares to speak up and men, lets be honest its mostly men, say really horrendous things to her
Different people have different ideas as to what constitutes “nasty” – I tend to swear in real life, so don’t particularly care about it. Call me “fuckface” and I’ll forget about it in moments (just after retaliation 🙂 ).
What surprises me are the number of people who come out with contemptable views who then get upset about me calling them a fuckwit, well before I’m really trying to get personal. Note that I didn’t say “differing views”.
Someone who comes to a blogsite with a known large left-wing/progressive group of commenters and calls the poor “parasites” is looking to wind people up. Fisiani’s blatant lying is also an example.
The moderators do a pretty good job of keeping responses legal and the general abuse trolls out, in my opinion.
What I’ve noticed on the better blogs I’ve seen (not that I read a lot) is that the folks who say “really nasty stuff” just because someone has differing views have an extremely short lifespan on the site, mostly due to moderators but also from community response.
James’ comment was “This behaviour has generally gone unchecked by other posters”. In my opinion that’s bullshit – one or two might slip through everybody’s attention (probably because by that time nobody but the two foes are reading the thread any more), but mods crack down on that shit here and if they don’t, commenters will try to bring it to the mods’ attention.
Which is exactly what happened in the single instance that James pointed to, and it was in fact yourself in the comments that took Richard to task for what he did. From a moderators perspective (this one at least), that’s great because it’s less work for me.
Would you consider this kind of comment on the nasty end of the scale? (I would)
“What pisses me off is rwnj’s who shit all over serious topics because they are too thick and dim to just stfu about things they don’t or can’t understand or care about.
I mean, what about it is nasty? Sure, there are rude words. It’s definitely passionate. I wouldn’t say it’s any nastier than telling someone who asks a basic question to RTFM.
It’s definitely not as nasty as taking a pretty apolitical and straight-up comment about NZ’s tragic suicide rate, an issue that has probably affected most commenters here via friends and loved ones, and then “building on” that comment with an unsubstantiated snipe that on this blog telling those with differing views to kill themselves has “generally gone unchecked”. Which was the context of your quote.
As I say, rude words might be distasteful, but some of the nastiest shit that I read online was written with surface courtesy and polite language.
I can’t see anything there that tells the moderator that you are RW (I assume that’s what you are referring to).
Further, you’ve hardly been censored. You’ve had two instances of what I assume were the same word removed and been told you’re stepping over the line. Your comment seems designed entirely to have a go at someone in a put down way. What was the point other than that?
Without knowing what the word was, I can’t say if the warning was for something considered offensive, or because you were seen as deliberately winding someone up. Either way it happens on both sides of the spectrum (I’ve moderated lefties recently too).
Seriously, if RWers here believe they are being unfairly moderated due to their politics, you need to put up some actual evidence, because at the moment you just seem like you’re annoyed at being moderated.
btw, you can use google to find phrases, or use google site search for things that are more obscure.
…
19 October 2016 at 3:07 pm (Edit)
Would you consider this kind of comment on the nasty end of the scale? (I would)
“What pisses me off is rwnj’s who shit all over serious topics because they are too thick and dim to just stfu about things they don’t or can’t understand or care about.
You James can take your bullshit and fuck off.”
I’m actually curious what you find problematic with that.
You’ll note the policy is against pointless abuse.
The trick is to make an associated point more explicit as the abuse becomes less “oblique” (I’m not sure you were quite as subtle as you think if that’s the example). Think of it like a bank balance: the more developed your point, the more you can spend in the way of abuse, right up until you hit the card limit for daily withdrawals and they ban your arse 🙂
While I would rarely hold myself up to be an example of ideal behaviour, I’ve commented here for years and don’t recall ever getting a ban. I’ve certainly been warned a couple of times (Bill was within a hairsbreadth of banning me once), but generally survived.
BTW, I tend to google with “site:thestandard.org.nz” when the site search engine is down. Not as useful, but gets one there eventually 🙂
Pucky … I think you may have participated in group bullying while being rude to Penny …… from memory
And have you not read the stuff of BM , Ross ……. and james when they talk about and smear strippers ????
Rape apology central with those three dicks posting ………
Did you hear about how it took two brave children not even old enough to vote to stop our devious prime minister promoting to a judicial role the most creepy thing/man to crawl out of the new zealand police force since clint rickards ???……..
Perhaps you have heard of roastbusters ?????…. and the police dishonesty and inaction regarding it ….
Or how about Customs officers sexually assaulting females who are visiting people the Government does not like ……………..
I can not remember you condemning any of the above …..
Your concern for females feels hollow and false to me ……………. based on your own actions and approval or indifference towards the cruelty served up by people like Collins & key
Did you speak up when Key twisted the words of Cunliffe speaking out against men beating women and children ??? ……
hi marty, i read yr post last night and it is grim reading.
i am wary of commenting too much for fear of being misinformed or causing pain to others.
while i agree we do not need to lionize victims of suicide (haka at school assembly), i do not think the current policy of remaining silent is working.
from reading around, one of the most cited causes of distress and pain, leading to suicide seems to be feeling isolated from people/community.
sometimes having someone to listen makes a huge difference.
it is hard to comprehend the cutting of funding to youthline and other services which are often the first port of call for someone in distress.
“while i agree we do not need to lionize victims of suicide (haka at school assembly), i do not think the current policy of remaining silent is working. ”
Yep gsays it is a real tough one – on one hand we don’t want to be seen to glorify suicide and on the other we don’t want to not talk about it. In my work with these individuals – validation of their right to their feelings, listening without trying to shove solutions at them, and helping them build new skills which create other options and choices can work. But it all takes time and if we miss the small envelope they can be lost – the reduction in funding is a nationwide emergency imo.
Apparently they are called ‘completed suicides’, there are many more attempts (incomplete suicides) & people who are considering it (& all the self harmers?), which all added up must be a huge amount for our tiny population. How do our stats compare to a city of 4 million I wonder?
Yep the suicide attempts and self harming incidents are through the roof in terms of numbers both gross and percentage wise. And the coroners have quite specific criteria before they call it a suicide which again reduces the statistics. I can’t imagine anyone in this country who isn’t affected by suicide and/or (I’m putting this in here because they are on the same continuum) self harming.
…and given recent Posts and discussions on this site which are primarily attacking Trump …eg this is a typical statement “Like a great many women and a fair amount of men too, I’m disgusted (but not surprised) with the misogyny expressed by Trump.”
This is study is interesting:
‘Women more likely to use misogynistic terms online, report finds’
“Women in the UK and US are more likely to use misogynist language on social media than men, according to the results of a four-year study.
The research was carried out by the social media research firm Brandwatch and looked at 19 million tweets over a four-year period to assess the levels of anti-woman sentiment expressed online.
The study found that over that period there were 3 million posts which contained terms abusive to women – with women most likely to have posted them…
The report was carried out for anti-bullying charity Ditch The Label, and found that words like “bitch,” “cow” and “slut” had passed into common usage by women online…
He said the huge rise in income inequality in the 1980s and 1990s was not just a historical event. Its social impact continued to this day, and people were increasingly recognising the damage that poverty was doing, he said.
“The biggest issue I have is The New Zealand Initiative seems completely oblivious to the point that even if the big increase in inequality was in the 1980s and 1990s, and hasn’t worsened since then, it still has big implications for the country today.
“They seem to think that if something happened in the past it doesn’t matter. It is really quite an extraordinary way of looking at the issue,” Rashbrooke said.
Good grief, that’s making my head spin. Conspiracy upon conspiracy.
The thing that stands out for me is that for such an elaborate plot they did some very stupid things e.g. the ranty/rambly nature of the post on the dating website. Plus the details in the story were weird if they were made up, and weird if they were true (by true I don’t mean the accusations, I mean that the main players are actual people in real life).
Still don’t know which bits had actions in RL and which were completely happening in cyberspace e.g. is the dating agency real or not?
Yeah I saw that, but I prefer to have something in addition to wikileaks or Assange’s lawyers backing that up. Call me cynical (not saying they are lying, just that I don’t trust them as a source to that degree).
OMG! I thought you were joking, good job, that list MP has done enough damage. Can’t think of any in the outgoing government whom have the slightest interest in education. Please please please NickOff follow her lead and bugger off too.
If you listen you will be able to hear the cheers in school staff rooms around the nation this lunch time 😀
You will see a big change in Cabinet before the next election. John Key has so much talent on the backbench and you can expect that a few Ministers will opt to retire to make way for a fresh face.
Parata is not the only senior Minister who has advised John Key that they want out of politics.
Watch for the promotion of Alfred Ngaro,Brett Hudson , Mark Mitchell, Scott Simpson , Paul Foster-Bell, Chris Bishop , Barbara Kuriger,Todd Muller, Alistair Scott to name but a few.
Brett Hudson, the ‘low profile’ List MP based in Ōhāriu whom the Nat’s put up against Dunne last election. Sales and account management background. Older fella.
Mark Mitchell the Rodney MP ex police man whom was said to have hired Simon Lusk whom went on to collaborate with Slater in an attempt to discredit Mitchells political opponents. I wonder if Mitchells email account is now secure lolz
Scott Simpson the MP for Coromandel whom loves to meet up with Donhua Liu, he received a $5000 donation from the controversial Chinese-born property developer for his 2011 election campaign, after meeting Liu about 10 times, including a couple of dinner dates. Connections with Lusk to it’s been said.
Barbara Kuriger, MP for Taranaki-King Country, and a shareholder in 2 family owned farming businesses, ex dairy board. Wonder if her and Judith compare notes?
Todd Muller MP for Bay of Plenty, former Zespri and Fonterra executive and asker of Patsy Questions. What has he done for his voters?
Alastair Scott is MP for Wairarapa and also owner of Matahiwi Estate winery and a former banker, I wonder what his agenda is?
Dang, it appears there is nothing new about this lot, more of the same, more executives, farmers and bankers looking after their own. Wonder what they have done for NZ or their local voters since coming into parliament?
[if it refers to Trump, it’s about the election. Please put it up in the discussion thread. I’ll leave this one here until you do, then delete it. See the bold at top and bottom of thread. Mods can’t move comments out of OM (except to trash). If in doubt stick it in the other thread. Thanks for checking – weka]
ACCI comes out swinging against the aspects of the Trans Pacific Partnership
“Australia’s biggest business organisation has distanced itself from claims the proposed Trans Pacific Partnership will create hundreds of thousands of jobs and be a “gigantic foundation stone” for Australia’s future.”
Not the person or place I expect these kind of comments..sent by a friend.
“I am not an economist but I have come to the conclusion that central banks collectively have now indeed lost the plot. The whole point of their independence was that they could be brave enough to make people confront reality. Yet in reality they are blowing up a bubble of make-believe money to avoid immediate pain, except for penalising the poor and the prudent.
Not important but every Spring I have serious hay fever through to December at least. But none this year. First time in my life.
Anyone else ab-normal strikes?
[In order to keep OM and DR free for other conversations, all comments, link postings etc about the US election now need to go in the dedicated US election discussion here.
If you are unsure, post in that thread rather than here. It’s not possible for moderators to shift comments from OM to there, so any comments here may get deleted – weka]
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is Antarctica gaining land ice? ...
Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
Peter Dunne writes – The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that “the first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.” When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECD’s second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the government’s official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious: we live in a troubled ...
1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
…it has a restricted jurisdiction which must not be abused: it is not an inquisitionNOTE – this article was published before the High Court ruled that Karen Chhour does not have to appear before the Waitangi Tribunal Gary Judd writes – The High Court ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same?Oranga Tamariki’s statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. “There are less children ...
David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a ‘first strike’ (that is, a “stage-1 conviction” under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a ‘second strike’. In the five years prior to ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in politics. That’s refreshing and will be extremely ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to “save” the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
Open access notablesIce acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment:In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Government’s official website – arrived in Point of Order’s email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
Mr Bombastic:Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
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In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder.In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
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Buzz from the Beehive Melissa Lee – as may be discerned from the screenshot above – has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
Morning in London Mother hugs beloved daughter outside the converted shoe factory in which she is living.Afternoon in London Travelling writer takes himself and his wrist down to A&E, just to be sure. Read more ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – The recent announcement of the University Advisory Group, chaired by Sir Peter Gluckman, makes very clear where the Government’s focus and priorities lie. The remit of the Advisory Group is that Group members will consider challenges and opportunities for improvement in the university sector including: ...
Eric Crampton writes – The Reserve Bank of New Zealand desperately wants to find reasons to have workstreams in climate change. It makes little sense. They’ve run another stress test on the banks looking to see if they could find a prudential regulation case. They couldn’t. They ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Pundits from the left and the right are arguing that National’s Fast Track Bill that is designed to speed up infrastructure decisions could end up becoming mired in a cesspool of corruption. Political commentator ...
Looking at the headlines this morning it’s hard to feel anything other than pessimistic about the future of humanity.Note that I’m not speaking about the future of mankind, but the survival of our humanity. The values that we believe in seem to be ebbing away, by the day.Perhaps every generation ...
Swabbing mixed breed baby chicks to test for avian influenzaUh oh. Bird flu – often deadly to humans – is not only being transmitted from infected birds to dairy cows, but is now travelling between dairy cows. As of last Friday, Bloomberg News reports, there were 32 American dairy herds ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
What is it with the mining industry? Its not enough for them to pillage the earth - they apparently can't even be bothered getting resource consent to do so: The proponent behind a major mine near the Clutha River had already been undertaking activity in the area without a ...
Photo # 1 I am a huge fan of Singapore’s approach to housing, as described here two years ago by copying and pasting from The ConversationWhat Singapore has that Australia does not is a public housing developer, the Housing Development Board, which puts new dwellings on public and reclaimed land, ...
Buzz from the Beehive Reactions to news of the government’s readiness to make urgent changes to “the resource management system” through a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) suggest a balanced approach is being taken. The Taxpayers’ Union says the proposed changes don’t go far enough. Greenpeace says ...
I’m starting to wonder if Anna Burns-Francis might be the best political interviewer we’ve got. That might sound unlikely to you, it came as a bit of a surprise to me.Jack Tame can be excellent, but has some pretty average days. I like Rebecca Wright on Newshub, she asks good ...
Chris Trotter writes – Willie Jackson is said to be planning a “media summit” to discuss “the state of the media and how to protect Fourth Estate Journalism”. Not only does the Editor of The Daily Blog, Martyn Bradbury, think this is a good idea, but he has also ...
Graeme Edgeler writes – This morning [April 21], the Wellington High Court is hearing a judicial review brought by Hon. Karen Chhour, the Minister for Children, against a decision of the Waitangi Tribunal. This is unusual, judicial reviews are much more likely to brought against ministers, rather than ...
Both of Parliament’s watchdogs have now ripped into the Government’s Fast-track Approvals Bill. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s political economy and beyond on the morning of Tuesday, April 23 are:The Lead: The Auditor General,John Ryan, has joined the ...
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The infrastructure industry yesterday issued a “hurry up” message to the Government, telling it to get cracking on developing a pipeline of infrastructure projects.The hiatus around the change of Government has seen some major projects cancelled and others delayed, and there is uncertainty about what will happen with the new ...
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Buzz from the Beehive The 180 or so recipients of letters from the Government telling them how to submit infrastructure projects for “fast track” consideration includes some whose project applications previously have been rejected by the courts. News media were quick to feature these in their reports after RMA Reform Minister Chris ...
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Calling all journalists, academics, planners, lawyers, political activists, environmentalists, and other members of the public who believe that the relationships between vested interests and politicians need to be scrutinised. We need to work together to make sure that the new Fast-Track Approvals Bill – currently being pushed through by the ...
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The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. The Government says this will ...
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Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
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RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
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[Please note, we are trialling something new for Open Mike and Daily Review.
In order to keep OM and DR free for other conversations, all comments, link postings etc about the US election now need to go in the dedicated US election discussion here.
If you are unsure, post in that thread rather than here. It’s not possible for moderators to shift comments from OM to there, so any comments here may get deleted.
Have fun folks – weka]
Look at our new invisible surplus clothes……yes said Msm…..looks fabulous..
The Emperor has no clothes? Surely not!
A new private prison being built.
Suicide rates spiralling.
Meanwhile the corporate media reports on Dan Carter, The Real Housewives of Auckland and ‘one perfect leap for a lamb.’
The brighter future.
The housing crisis is really hitting home around here. Next door sold within 10 days of being on the market, a sharp contrast considering it was on the market for a couple of months a few years back before being sold. Welcome to Motueka, most of the ‘for sale’ signs have sold stickers on them.
My sister is about to find herself homeless, the investor that owns the rental she is in decided to put it on the market, it sold within 10 days. She’s been looking for anything for her and her son for the last 4 weeks, she has two weeks left to find some where, but there is nowhere, rentals are let out within hours of being advertised, she’s even going to open homes to ask real estate agents if a property investors are potential buyers, she’s doing everything she can to find a home.
I’m now cleaning out one of my garages, lucky it’s coming into summer. Her son has one term left at primary school, my place is 30 mins away on the open road to his school, changing his school at this stage is not an option. Did I mention she is working?
Housing crisis is causing massive mental health issues and stress for so many, it’s not just an Auckland issue, I’ve never seen my sister so stressed, and she is just one working parent with a child, it’s heartbreaking.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/09/zealand-relentless-housing-crisis-160928153415463.html
She should try trademe. A quick look shows 10 houses for rent right there in motueka.
Starting at only $240 per week.
Your welcome.
/facepalm
Great stuff James… not. It’s your bloody mob that’s deliberately doing this to our society. And it’s not ‘your welcome’, it’s ‘you’re welcome’.
Blinking typo on the you’re.
Thank you.
@ James. A double typo to be accurate. The ‘ and the e.
Two out of six characters is more likely poor spelling.
Thanks but she does not live in Motueka, she lives in Richmond.
A quick look on trade me says there are 2 places with 2 bedrooms in her price range, but Tapawera is 45mins on the open road away from her sons school.
There are 4 places in her price range on trade me, but they are all one bedrooms. JS
Do you have any rentals in Richmond James?
She is my sister by love not by blood, sadly her mum has passed away, I’m all she has. Planting a massive vege garden this year, excess veges are given away free at my gate, it’s all part of making a good community
Good for you on all counts Cinny. I hope you all find a better way soon, and it’s heartening to hear about what you do to make it work in the meantime. James’ comment was incredibly ignorant, and worse, the whole implied neoliberal slant of you’re not trying hard enough, I know what’s best, has just been shown up by your generosity, self-reliance, and ingenuity. Kia kana.
I really feel that the ‘what’s in it for me’ philosophy rather than the ‘it takes a village’ outlook is what is screwing up so many lives.
Very lucky in Motueka, it’s more about ‘we’ here than ‘me’, seems to work better for us like that.
Thanks for the good vibes, much appreciated
poor thing Cinny hope things work out for her ( your sister) its really hard now and we have a government that is not ruling for all the people
IKR, I’m like sheez if this is taking such a toll on her, one can only begin to imagine the stress for thousands like her, and those with children. And how can renters have the security of a home with speculators flicking off properties for gain, worries about the residents, profit over people. It’s a disgrace.
The housing crisis is a reality for white middle class NZ, among thousands of others hurting. Landlords are taking the cream with accommodation supplements aplenty, and the ability to pick and choose crippling rent prices. The outgoing government does nothing, no capital gains, no rent caps, nothing to prevent speculators milking the system for all they can, no matter where in the world they reside.
Hi Garth Barefoot, made any more donations to the outgoing government? No doubt your real estate empire will be making a very tidy profit.
This is what i have been saying for the longest time.
It is not only AKL it is everywhere.
And the move out of Auckland (insert what ever other city might apply) and move to the country side is not helping as it fucks up the housing market there.
Fact is there are not enough houses in NZ to keep up with standard population growth and continued unrestricted migration (those that come to live and work and those the only come to buy a speculation object or several).
its fucked up beyond believe.
A very interesting, though no doubt controversial, article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/10/american-intervention-syria/504512/?utm_source=atlfb
A thought provoking read
Recommended.
Firefox won’t play that Extremist, but a switch to Chrome will. Something to do with advertisements.
I put this up on the Daily Review last night – I’ll reiterate it here
“Tough stuff coming up
“Men aged between 25 and 29, and women aged between 40 and 44, are the most at-risk when it comes to suicide, new figures show.
The female suicide rate is the highest on record, with 170 women dying by suicide during the past year.
While more men die by suicide in New Zealand, the gap between the genders is the smallest it’s been…
…Maori suicide rates remain higher than any other ethnicity in the country.
…The Canterbury Region has recorded its highest suicide total since records began in 2008, with 78 deaths.
…In 2016, 252 employed people died by suicide – up from 246 the previous year.
Meanwhile, 146 unemployed people took their own lives, followed by 70 retirees or pensioners, and 55 students.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/85449334/nz-suicide-toll–unacceptably-high
yep it is unacceptable that so many desperate people make the choice they do and the families, loved ones and whānau left behind with so many questions and effects that do resonate through generations.
Kia kaha to all.”
[sorry marty, short of deleting the conversation below (which we try not to do) I can’t do much to put it elsewhere. Thanks for reposting. – weka]
I’m sorry – (and this is not aimed specifically at the poster above) it pisses me off when people on this blog use sucicide stats to have a crack at the government yet are happy to tell people on here to do things like hang themselves should they have a different view to them.
This behaviour has generally gone unchecked by other posters – as opposed to trying to stop bullying behaviour that can actually lead people to self harm.
but sadly for some posters on here – telling a righty to kill themselves is all good. As I have said before – I hope they never have to live with that kind of pain in their family – it’s a hard way to learn what damage their actions can cause.
[citation needed]
“Richardrawshark 9.1.1.1
16 June 2016 at 11:55 am
I think fisi BM Bob, Little’s words that you are on about were “bla bla this deal LOOKS dodgy”.
I remember the interview very well
At no time did he come out in public saying it WAS a dirty deal.
Then Hagaman threatened a law suit if he didn’t retract, well why would he the deal looks dodgy. It’s just a statement of fact.
You guys are pathetic. hang yourselves, it’ll be easier now than after the election when the NZ public massively vote red green or anything but blue.”
[Right, you’ve provide one example below. Now you need to provide two more examples in the next hour (you seem to think ‘people’ not person are doing this), and provide the actual links this time so I can see the context. As a moderator I am interested in anyone telling other commenters to kill themselves and anyone here can bring that to the moderators attention.
However it is completely unacceptable to do it in the way you have done as a major derailment of an incredibly serious topic. At the least, you could have started a new subthread, and taken more care in how you brought this up. Whatever grievance you have about being abused on this site (you’ve commented on this before), it doesn’t take precedence over the people reading OM today who have had someone they love commit suicide.
It is also not ok to tell lump all commenters into one mass and then make out they are responsible for others’ behaviour e.g. saying that people who comment on suicide also tell people to kill themselves. I am going to ban you for a time, but want to see the links first. You also own marty an apology – weka]
I don’t know if it counts but does someone thinking it’d be hilarious if I got HIV count, I mean I know its not the same as telling someone to go hang themselves but its getting up there
https://thestandard.org.nz/stop-the-sanctions/
Brigid 8.1.1.2.1.2
16 September 2016 at 12:44 pm
So no, you don’t care to know if, or not, there are children as a result of your irresponsible behaviour.
Wouldn’t it be hilarious if, in the fullness of time, you discovered you have HIV.
(but you know sometimes you have a little too much to drink…)
Maui is right
“We’ve seen all this from rwinger men before. Eww.”
And yuck
[no, it doesn’t count. James was referring to people telling others to kill themselves. That’s not what Brigid said. Also she appears to be being sarcastic to make a point in the middle of somewhat contentious exchange. It was a rude thing to say but I wouldn’t have moderated that myself unless there was an escalation of abuse going on. Honestly, if we moderated everyone who was rude like that, we’d be at it all day and we’d basically be controlling what the conversation was. No-one wants that unless there is a bloody good reason. I probably would have moderated the go hang yourself one by placing a warning. – weka]
They pointed out a consequence of your own behaviour, that you see it as threatening or bullying is interesting.
The thing was though as I said numerous times on the thread (probably didn’t seem important I guess)
Puckish Rogue 7.2.1.1
16 September 2016 at 9:34 am
Did you happen to notice this sentence by any chance?
“But yeah the law should be amended at the very least or dropped altogether and hopefully National will”
See I thought that was pretty clear but I guess not
followed by
Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.2.1
16 September 2016 at 10:20 am
Well first off I don’t know that I have any, I was usually pretty good with protection (but you know sometimes you have a little too much to drink…) so I don’t know that I have any
Secondly as I stated previously:
“But yeah the law should be amended at the very least or dropped altogether and hopefully National will”
So I guess the answer is I’d like the law to get dropped then my taxes can towards paying all solo mums fairly
And as for pointing out the consequences of my actions (from over a decade ago) you don’t think that contracting HIV is a tad over the top?
This just illustrates my points later on, people didn’t even bother to note that I was supportive of solo parents getting paid fairly but instead people focused on the supposed “nasty” comments I made (whoever here hasn’t had a one night stand or unprotected sex then please feel free to cast the first stone) to justify their own actions
They pointed out a consequence of your own behaviour…
So, if someone was to comment that it’s hilarious when gays or IV drug users get HIV, they’d just be helpfully pointing out a consequence of those people’s behaviour? I don’t think so.
…that you see it as threatening or bullying is interesting.
That you see it as anything other than abusive is interesting. I don’t have any great complaint to make against abusive comments, but let’s not pretend they’re something different from what they are.
Show me where I had a “crack at the government” above. In fact I didn’t mention them at all.
What pisses me off is rwnj’s who shit all over serious topics because they are too thick and dim to just stfu about things they don’t or can’t understand or care about.
You James can take your bullshit and fuck off.
Far from shitting over serious topics – this is close to my heart and I take it very seriously. Sadly I know a bit about it.
I stated that I wasn’t talking specifically about you. I was simply building on your comment.
But – hey good on you – someone talks about the bully behaviour on this blog (as opposed to robust debate) and the damage it can cause and you counter with “take your bullshit and fuck off”
classy, well thought out robust reply there.
I don’t want anyone to commit suicide, even RWNJ…… So maybe you can ask your leader ShonKey to focus on the people, not just his money and power……. And leave little girls hair alone as well….. Fkn creepy.
Ive never communicated with John Key – so not much I can do there – but I DO communicate with people on blogs – why not start there?
Whats wrong with a “bottom up” approach to helping people, to stop behaviour which can cause such terrible outcomes.
Would we not be better as a society for this?
People are happy to call out “rape apologist”, but in general are happy to go with a pack mentality to “attack” others who they dont agree with. Isnt that just as bad?
Inclined to agree with james here, there is a serious problem of bullying on this site, not a good look at all, you moderators need to get together and sort out a code and then apply it consistantly and to everyone, including yourselves
[don’t tell the moderators/authors what to do. Reread the Policy. You and James will now both take yourselves out of this subthread or expect to be banned. See my comment above. If you want to discuss moderation policy on ts, this is NOT the way to do – weka]
Then don’t say nasty and stupid things. Then people would not have to resort to calling you Tory scum, wingnuts, rwnj and other descriptions which fix so well.
You have to admit it is ironic that you get upset when it gets dished back, but many wingnuts are happy to dish it out. Boohoo, is it sad that the poor little leftists have a spin. Sad little Tory rebates finding that hard are they, cry me a river.
Politics is a bit of hardball, if you want it to be nice a cuddly, then stop voting Tory, because the only reaction to the reactionaries is to come out fighting or give up. Remember it’s Tory wind bags like you, who support the creepy one, and his flock of incompetent ministers…
Too soon.
Actually I think we err far too much on the side of robust instead of on building a place where we can learn things, and things can change. At times this place looks like a straight out den of whack the RWer. People see that and stay away and we miss many voices that should be otherwise heard. That includes lefties and righties and people who aren’t on the spectrum.
I agree weka, but most of the time it is driven from some pretty nasty comments to begin with.
Many comments from the Tory club I just find stupid, and as such, I leave alone. But more than a few are actually just nasty, these need to be responded to. It’s not so much whack a Tory rebate, it’s call them out for there repeated nastiness and bereft reasoning.
I for one, am sick of the continued calumny that pours forth from too many Tory commentators on this site.
Yes
@Weka – totally agree.
Are you sure you’re not just using it as an excuse to say what you say because you feel justified in your actions?
Come on Puckish, you play the wind up game with people – then play the poor me card. You are hardly one to talk.
Too soon…
Adam’s got Pucky pigeon-holed perfectly.
I disagree, I think adam is justifying his own actions by deciding how I post irrespective of my own intentions
As I posted below if he thinks what I post is nasty then I must be nasty which “allows” him to post nasty replies back
and of course its all the nasty torys fault:
“But more than a few are actually just nasty, these need to be responded to. It’s not so much whack a Tory rebate, it’s call them out for there repeated nastiness and bereft reasoning.”
it was too soon…
No I think you use these supposed transgressions as an excuse to vent your spleen.
You dismiss peoples opinions that you disagree with as wind ups, nasty or stupid yet not even considering that the people posting them actually believe those opinions and because those opinions are “nasty” then the people posting them are “nasty” which justifies your comments
“Come on Puckish, you play the wind up game with people – then play the poor me card. You are hardly one to talk.”
Pucky said: “…I think adam is justifying his own actions…”
Adam’s not “justifying his actions. He’s accurately describing yours.
Incorrect Robby, I could say that your contribution to this thread is trolling, that you are a troll and you may (or may not be) but I don’t really know what your intentions are, only you know for sure
So adam can say I’m nasty or whatever to justify his own actions but only I know what my intentions are and its on him when he misinterprets what I (or other people he disagrees with) say
Or you could simply ask me instead of assuming
What the matter Puckish, feeling a bit exposed that people got your number?
Don’t feel to bad, we all have patterns – yours are just a bit more obvious than most.
I was not actually saying you are nasty Puckish, actually you are one of the Tories here who says the least nasty or stupid things. You play a different game. Again, back to patterns.
But come on Puckish you call people when they say stupid things, is it that the Tory flock, are a bit thin skinned…
“… you could simply ask me instead of assuming…”
Okay, thanks for the opportunity, Pucky, I’ll take it.
Have you played the wind up game with people – then played the poor me card?
“What the matter Puckish, feeling a bit exposed that people got your number?”
– If I had a dollar for everytime someone said they had my number I’d have a lot more money then I do now
“Don’t feel to bad, we all have patterns – yours are just a bit more obvious than most. ”
– Theres that assumption again…
“I was not actually saying you are nasty Puckish, actually you are one of the Tories here who says the least nasty or stupid things. You play a different game. Again, back to patterns.”
– Well thank you for that, a while back there were some posts on how the site was becoming nasty (especially towards females) so I took some of the stuff on board and have, somewhat, altered the way I post
I’ve actively stopped mentioning anything negative about peoples looks or bodies
As soon as theres anything to do with rape, sexual assault etc then I tread very warily around the subject or indeed not post at all
Basically I’ve tried to improve what I post and how I post it because if we want this site to be a certain way then all of us have to do our part, it shouldn’t be up to the moderators only to police things around here
Essentially I have rule that I only post what I’d be willing to say out loud, in a group setting
“But come on Puckish you call people when they say stupid things, is it that the Tory flock, are a bit thin skinned…”
– If I had major problems with what people said about here I wouldn’t come back but I do think that the occasional threats of violence, death or just plain nastiness that happens is maybe a bit much, robust sure but come on the whole “up against the wall” thing that some (hello Millsy) on here seem to yearn for isn’t going to happen anytime soon
“Okay, thanks for the opportunity, Pucky, I’ll take it.
Have you played the wind up game with people – then played the poor me card?”
Quick answer is no if you mean I’ve wound up people on purpose then played the poor me card
However if we break the question down separately like have I wound people up and played the poor me card then to the first part of the question, yes sometimes depending on the situation but not as often as most people think and probably as much as most others on here do (much like yourself at times)
To the second part I’ll say probably, I mean I can’t think of any times but I’ve also been posting for a very long time so at some point I might have
Now that’s a completely 100% honest answer but I’m curious if anyone will say I’m wrong
Here you go Puckish this should make you feel better.
The only blue man group I like…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTJfITfbYNA
Could have been worse I suppose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BinWA0EenDY
Disarming answer there, Pucky, thanks for making the effort. Tell me, if you will, do you regard saying here, “National will win in 2017” a wind-up?
“Disarming answer there, Pucky, thanks for making the effort. Tell me, if you will, do you regard saying here, “National will win in 2017” a wind-up?”
A good question, the type of question that might help explain some things.
If I came on here and said National will win in 2017 and I didn’t think they would then yes I’d consider that a wind up as I’m saying something I don’t believe merely to get a reaction out of the posters
However I do believe that National will win in 2017 (most likely in coalition with NZFirst) so its not a wind up because that’s what I think is going to happen
” so its not a wind up because that’s what I think is going to happen”
Here we differ and I suspect others here will feel as I do. Just because you think a certain thing doesn’t justify your repeating it often on a site where most readers and commentors sincerely hope for the opposite of “what you think”. In any case, you are not prefacing your claim with, “I think”, you are usually making the claim bald, as if it was true. I’m certain that you are not a practiced and successful crystal ball gazer, and so your declaration comes across as arrogant, provocative and a wind-up. But you must know this already, Pucky.
Ok thats reasonable but I also normally explain why I think the way I do so its not like I go National will win and then bugger off
“I’m certain that you are not a practiced and successful crystal ball gazer, and so your declaration comes across as arrogant, provocative and a wind-up. But you must know this already, Pucky.”
Its only perceived that way because I’m on the right of the political spectrum, if I posted in the same way but from a left view nobody would say a word
If, as some posters on here seem to want, all right voting posters on here were banned all you’d end up with is Red Alert 2.0 and I don’t think anyone wants that
Hell there are posters on here that want CV gone, is that what you really want, an echo chamber?
In any case, you are not prefacing your claim with, “I think”, you are usually making the claim bald, as if it was true.
There was a running gag on The Good Wife of a judge who demanded lawyers add “in my opinion” to any assertions they made, because it would be unreasonable to expect the court to recognise that assertions rather than expressions of proven facts were being made. Thanks for volunteering Robert, but you’re really going to have your work cut out for you making everyone preface their claims with “I think.” Er… in my opinion.
Psycho Milt – that’s right, requiring an “I think” before every statement would be unnecessary, however, in Pucky’s case, where he is using his “Key will win, Little will lose” regularly, it would be good manners for him to use the preface, as a sign of good faith. He’s moderated his behaviour significantly in recent months and there’s no reason, I believe, why he wouldn’t do us all the favour of qualifying his most irritating claims with a modest, “I think”. Of course, he doesn’t have to do what I suggest, but I’ve noticed that he wants to fit in better, not attract ire and be accepted as a reasonable commenter and adopting my suggestion would help a great deal, in my opinion.
I encourage you to take up your suggestion with the author of this post https://thestandard.org.nz/key-could-still-win-and-heres-why/ because he seems to be flirting On the edges of good manners and is at risk of not fitting in.
How about this for an idea Robby, how about we all assume that there’s an invisible I think or In my opinion before every statement on this site, you might not see it but its always there…
@inspider – you are encouraging me to criticise the author of a post here, something I’m too polite and respectful to do 🙂
Pucky – you will stop commenting here the day Key and National lose the election (something to practise your “Invisible I think” idea on)
“Pucky – you will stop commenting here the day Key and National lose the election (something to practise your “Invisible I think” idea on)”
We’ll see in 2020 then won’t we 🙂
“We’ll see in 2020 then won’t we”
By then, we’ll not have heard from you for 3 years, so it’ll be a reunion of sorts 🙂
Ok Robby lets make a bet on the next election if you’re so confident…
When National wins you, at your earliest convenience of course, praise Nationals win and admit that I, Puckish Rogue was right all along and that my predictions are accurate
If Labour win…I’ll praise Labours victory and admit I got it wrong and that my predictions are as accurate as Martin Bradburys
In this instance winning means being part of the next government of course
Can we do that thing when we see who can pee the highest as well? Can we Pucky? Can we?
Wouldn’t it have just been easier to say “I think you’re right but I just don’t want to admit it?”
Cross his palm with silver and Pucky the Mysterious will reveal the True Secrets of Your Future! Be Amazed by Pucky’s Powers, see Up-Coming Events through Pucky’s All-Seeing Eye! Be Be-Dazzled by the Swirling Miasma in Pucky’s Cryptic Crystal Ball. Swoon at the Confidence the All-Knowing Pucky the Mysterious exudes.
* Quality of experience may vary. Satisfaction not guaranteed.
“Then don’t say nasty and stupid things. Then people would not have to resort to calling you Tory scum, wingnuts, rwnj and other descriptions which fix so well.”
Its in your DNA adam…nasty is the automatic go to when someone does not agree with your world views.
As for me I don’t care about any “name calling” I do have a little fun by calling certain people here far left activists 🙂 However the truth of the matter is most NZ’ers are not far left nor far right, rather someone in the middle of those two extremes.
Kept in mind at the end of the day we all need to get along with each other. And that means with people whom do not share the same political leanings as you may do.
So says the conspiracy theorist. You Chucky hide behind civility and an attempt at moderation to justify your hate and use it to have a go at people. Which is funny, you fall in the catagory of stupid most of the time, as you fall for conspiracy theories, or make them up.
So sorry Chucky you are one of the rwnj I try and avoid, except for the occasional reminder to people that you are a hard right conspiracy theorist.
adam you do realise you have just validated my post…
The only “hate” occurring here is your response to anyone that has a different view to yours.
Its in your DNA adam…nasty is the automatic go to when someone does not agree with your world views.
The problem with that argument is that it’s pretty nasty to tell someone that they are genetically predestined to be nasty. What shall we attribute your nastiness to then?
Chuck is a right-wing troll who does not know when to use ‘whom’. He is a hostile who pretends to be an affable mate. I recommend avoidance of contact. Adam – you can see how he misconstrues victories for himself? You are dead right about him.
Heavens In Vino…
“He is a hostile who pretends to be an affable mate”
“I recommend avoidance of contact.”
Maybe you would feel safer if I and a large portion of the population are made to wear an arm band…so you and adam know to avoid us when walking down the street 🙂
I think you need to get out of the class room and into the real world.
“Heavens In Vino”
Give it an apostrophe and you’re saying what many people happily believe, Chuck. There’s a lot of truth in Vino’s comment (I’m sure I know his sister, Veritas).
“What shall we attribute your nastiness to then?”
Not nasty weka, just pointing out the inconvenient truth.
Fortunately for the rest of us, you don’t get to decide what is nasty.
OK I have (re) read the policy. Now I have a genuine question please treat it as such, (even if i have stupedly missed something)
Question : What is the approved process/venue to discuss or raise issues of moderator guidelines/conduct here
[thanks xanthe, I’ve got stuff to do, will reply later – weka]
Hi, Xanthe.
There isn’t a process, exactly. But if you disagree with a mod’s decision, you can try putting a case via email at thestandardnz@gmail.com. That approach might result, for example, in a ban being shortened.
Generally speaking, the rule of thumb is that the other mods do not overrule a mod’s decision. So if you piss a mod off, expect to have to cop a ban. Whining about it is unlike to change the result.
Bear in mind, all authors and mods are volunteers. We don’t get paid for this and we have to put up with a lot of crap to keep this joint rockin’. The commenters are important to us, but so are the many thousands who just read the posts. We moderate to make sure this site is worth reading, so occasionally that means making decisions like ending a thread because it’s degenerating.
If you really want to influence the moderation on site, start writing posts, become an author, and eventually you’ll get to mod yourself and see how much of a challenge it is.
Cheers, TRP
Thanks TRP I want to make it clear that this is not about challenging any specific ban. I totally get that you have a volunteer job to do and its not an easy task. I actually think that thestandard is an important part of the new zealand political discourse and my sole motive is to assist you in reaching and holding as wide an audence and engagement as possible. I am more concerned with the interactions that lead to a ban. and the methods availiable to the moderators to “moderate” discussion that is veering towards abuse so that it dosnt get to the ban stage.
i will email the address you have given and say no more here for now
Good as gold, Xanthe and thanks for the thoughtful approach you have taken.
What I’ve noticed (on both left and right wing blogs) is that when someone with a differing view comes along then the other side feel “justified” in saying really nasty stuff to that person, stuff they wouldn’t normally say because they consider themselves a “good” person but its almost as if they’ve decided the other person “deserves” it
You can see echoes of it when a female commentator dares to speak up and men, lets be honest its mostly men, say really horrendous things to her
I’m not so sure that’s entirely fair.
Different people have different ideas as to what constitutes “nasty” – I tend to swear in real life, so don’t particularly care about it. Call me “fuckface” and I’ll forget about it in moments (just after retaliation 🙂 ).
What surprises me are the number of people who come out with contemptable views who then get upset about me calling them a fuckwit, well before I’m really trying to get personal. Note that I didn’t say “differing views”.
Someone who comes to a blogsite with a known large left-wing/progressive group of commenters and calls the poor “parasites” is looking to wind people up. Fisiani’s blatant lying is also an example.
The moderators do a pretty good job of keeping responses legal and the general abuse trolls out, in my opinion.
Well sure not everybody that’s posts here is like that of course
What I’ve noticed on the better blogs I’ve seen (not that I read a lot) is that the folks who say “really nasty stuff” just because someone has differing views have an extremely short lifespan on the site, mostly due to moderators but also from community response.
James’ comment was “This behaviour has generally gone unchecked by other posters”. In my opinion that’s bullshit – one or two might slip through everybody’s attention (probably because by that time nobody but the two foes are reading the thread any more), but mods crack down on that shit here and if they don’t, commenters will try to bring it to the mods’ attention.
Thats fair, as much as I think it’d be amusing to wield the ban hammer it just sounds like to much hard work
Which is exactly what happened in the single instance that James pointed to, and it was in fact yourself in the comments that took Richard to task for what he did. From a moderators perspective (this one at least), that’s great because it’s less work for me.
hah – so I was, amongst several others. Hadn’t bothered to search for the instance before now 🙂
Would you consider this kind of comment on the nasty end of the scale? (I would)
“What pisses me off is rwnj’s who shit all over serious topics because they are too thick and dim to just stfu about things they don’t or can’t understand or care about.
You James can take your bullshit and fuck off.”
Really? I wouldn’t.
I mean, what about it is nasty? Sure, there are rude words. It’s definitely passionate. I wouldn’t say it’s any nastier than telling someone who asks a basic question to RTFM.
It’s definitely not as nasty as taking a pretty apolitical and straight-up comment about NZ’s tragic suicide rate, an issue that has probably affected most commenters here via friends and loved ones, and then “building on” that comment with an unsubstantiated snipe that on this blog telling those with differing views to kill themselves has “generally gone unchecked”. Which was the context of your quote.
As I say, rude words might be distasteful, but some of the nastiest shit that I read online was written with surface courtesy and polite language.
I got censored and ban threatened for obliquely calling a commenter an idiot. I guess it’s ok when the left do it 🙂
Ps what’s happened to the search function? Seems to have disappeared
This one?
https://thestandard.org.nz/i-see-a-poverty-of-ideas-and-a-poverty-of-government-responsibility/#comment-1244402
I can’t see anything there that tells the moderator that you are RW (I assume that’s what you are referring to).
Further, you’ve hardly been censored. You’ve had two instances of what I assume were the same word removed and been told you’re stepping over the line. Your comment seems designed entirely to have a go at someone in a put down way. What was the point other than that?
Without knowing what the word was, I can’t say if the warning was for something considered offensive, or because you were seen as deliberately winding someone up. Either way it happens on both sides of the spectrum (I’ve moderated lefties recently too).
Seriously, if RWers here believe they are being unfairly moderated due to their politics, you need to put up some actual evidence, because at the moment you just seem like you’re annoyed at being moderated.
btw, you can use google to find phrases, or use google site search for things that are more obscure.
…
19 October 2016 at 3:07 pm (Edit)
Would you consider this kind of comment on the nasty end of the scale? (I would)
“What pisses me off is rwnj’s who shit all over serious topics because they are too thick and dim to just stfu about things they don’t or can’t understand or care about.
You James can take your bullshit and fuck off.”
I’m actually curious what you find problematic with that.
Was it this one?
You’ll note the policy is against pointless abuse.
The trick is to make an associated point more explicit as the abuse becomes less “oblique” (I’m not sure you were quite as subtle as you think if that’s the example). Think of it like a bank balance: the more developed your point, the more you can spend in the way of abuse, right up until you hit the card limit for daily withdrawals and they ban your arse 🙂
While I would rarely hold myself up to be an example of ideal behaviour, I’ve commented here for years and don’t recall ever getting a ban. I’ve certainly been warned a couple of times (Bill was within a hairsbreadth of banning me once), but generally survived.
BTW, I tend to google with “site:thestandard.org.nz” when the site search engine is down. Not as useful, but gets one there eventually 🙂
hi inspider,
i was reading as the comments unfolded.
i thought james was thoroughly lacking in empathy with his comment.
heartless.
he may have had a point, but time and place.
this epitomises to me the difference between those of the left from those of the wrong: it is people, it is people, it is people.
while i do not like overly savoury langauge, i saw nothing inappropriate to the response to james.
Im not sure Robby wants to take up that bet with you PR
Is this a nasty comment then ?
Or this one? “If Robert Guyton left the room would you say “there’s one less [deleted] in the room” or “there’s one fewer [deleted] in the room”?”
Look, we all have fewer grammar nowadays.
I
Pucky … I think you may have participated in group bullying while being rude to Penny …… from memory
And have you not read the stuff of BM , Ross ……. and james when they talk about and smear strippers ????
Rape apology central with those three dicks posting ………
Did you hear about how it took two brave children not even old enough to vote to stop our devious prime minister promoting to a judicial role the most creepy thing/man to crawl out of the new zealand police force since clint rickards ???……..
Perhaps you have heard of roastbusters ?????…. and the police dishonesty and inaction regarding it ….
Or how about Customs officers sexually assaulting females who are visiting people the Government does not like ……………..
I can not remember you condemning any of the above …..
Your concern for females feels hollow and false to me ……………. based on your own actions and approval or indifference towards the cruelty served up by people like Collins & key
Did you speak up when Key twisted the words of Cunliffe speaking out against men beating women and children ??? ……
I think we all know the answers to the above ……
The precedent goes back to Amartya Sen – suicide is robust objective data on dissatisfaction with governance.
Of course as a shill for this government we understand your hatred of data.
hi marty, i read yr post last night and it is grim reading.
i am wary of commenting too much for fear of being misinformed or causing pain to others.
while i agree we do not need to lionize victims of suicide (haka at school assembly), i do not think the current policy of remaining silent is working.
from reading around, one of the most cited causes of distress and pain, leading to suicide seems to be feeling isolated from people/community.
sometimes having someone to listen makes a huge difference.
it is hard to comprehend the cutting of funding to youthline and other services which are often the first port of call for someone in distress.
“while i agree we do not need to lionize victims of suicide (haka at school assembly), i do not think the current policy of remaining silent is working. ”
I agree with this
Yep gsays it is a real tough one – on one hand we don’t want to be seen to glorify suicide and on the other we don’t want to not talk about it. In my work with these individuals – validation of their right to their feelings, listening without trying to shove solutions at them, and helping them build new skills which create other options and choices can work. But it all takes time and if we miss the small envelope they can be lost – the reduction in funding is a nationwide emergency imo.
amen to the listening.
to my mind the most profound act of love you can visit on another.
Apparently they are called ‘completed suicides’, there are many more attempts (incomplete suicides) & people who are considering it (& all the self harmers?), which all added up must be a huge amount for our tiny population. How do our stats compare to a city of 4 million I wonder?
Yep the suicide attempts and self harming incidents are through the roof in terms of numbers both gross and percentage wise. And the coroners have quite specific criteria before they call it a suicide which again reduces the statistics. I can’t imagine anyone in this country who isn’t affected by suicide and/or (I’m putting this in here because they are on the same continuum) self harming.
This topic is worth a post – if only to get past the sad tr0ll derailment technique.
The ongoing increases in tobacco tax is fueling robberies nationwide.
A growing number of victims have been harmed and lives are being put at risk. It’s only a matter of time before someone is killed.
Increases in tobacco tax is also fueling a growing black market.
Taxpayers are being forced to pay for more police and new prisons as a result.
It’s also driving those who continue to smoke into further fiscal hardship, adding to the cost, harm and stress growing poverty creates.
When is a enough enough?
There are alternatives to tobacco tax increases. Therefore, isn’t it time we put an end to this crime fueling and harm causing experiment?
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201820507/salvation-army-wants-to-limit-immigration-to-give-kids-jobs
http://www.salvationarmy.org.nz/research-media/social-policy-and-parliamentary-unit/latest-report/what-next
http://50500.co.nz/
Talking about sexist language
…and given recent Posts and discussions on this site which are primarily attacking Trump …eg this is a typical statement “Like a great many women and a fair amount of men too, I’m disgusted (but not surprised) with the misogyny expressed by Trump.”
This is study is interesting:
‘Women more likely to use misogynistic terms online, report finds’
https://www.rt.com/uk/363048-women-online-misogyny-report/
“Women in the UK and US are more likely to use misogynist language on social media than men, according to the results of a four-year study.
The research was carried out by the social media research firm Brandwatch and looked at 19 million tweets over a four-year period to assess the levels of anti-woman sentiment expressed online.
The study found that over that period there were 3 million posts which contained terms abusive to women – with women most likely to have posted them…
The report was carried out for anti-bullying charity Ditch The Label, and found that words like “bitch,” “cow” and “slut” had passed into common usage by women online…
This is key.
He said the huge rise in income inequality in the 1980s and 1990s was not just a historical event. Its social impact continued to this day, and people were increasingly recognising the damage that poverty was doing, he said.
“The biggest issue I have is The New Zealand Initiative seems completely oblivious to the point that even if the big increase in inequality was in the 1980s and 1990s, and hasn’t worsened since then, it still has big implications for the country today.
“They seem to think that if something happened in the past it doesn’t matter. It is really quite an extraordinary way of looking at the issue,” Rashbrooke said.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/85445497/housing-crisis-the-cause-of-inequality-in-nz-the-new-zealand-initiative
Seems the 48 hour rule applies to things on the interwebs, too.
Wikileaks responds.
https://wikileaks.org/Background-and-Documents-on-Attempts-to-Frame-Assange-as-a-Pedophile-and.html?update3
Good grief, that’s making my head spin. Conspiracy upon conspiracy.
The thing that stands out for me is that for such an elaborate plot they did some very stupid things e.g. the ranty/rambly nature of the post on the dating website. Plus the details in the story were weird if they were made up, and weird if they were true (by true I don’t mean the accusations, I mean that the main players are actual people in real life).
Still don’t know which bits had actions in RL and which were completely happening in cyberspace e.g. is the dating agency real or not?
Third sentence of link…
An unknown entity posing as an internet dating agency…
So, no. The dating agency is a fabrication.
Yeah I saw that, but I prefer to have something in addition to wikileaks or Assange’s lawyers backing that up. Call me cynical (not saying they are lying, just that I don’t trust them as a source to that degree).
Google says they’ve been around for a year or so.
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=todd+and+clare&client=firefox-b&biw=1920&bih=940&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A19%2F10%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A19%2F10%2F2015&tbm=
Parata sacked. Not sure whether this is a good thing or not.
Now they’ll get someone in to ram through the privatisation changes without the consultation.
Heh.
A great win for education – unless they get some other idiot in to be Minister.
That’s what I’m saying. She was terrible but they’ll get someone even worse – Seymour…!
Noooooooooo!!!!! oh please no
OMG! I thought you were joking, good job, that list MP has done enough damage. Can’t think of any in the outgoing government whom have the slightest interest in education. Please please please NickOff follow her lead and bugger off too.
If you listen you will be able to hear the cheers in school staff rooms around the nation this lunch time 😀
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1610/S00282/parata-will-not-contest-2017-election.htm
The refreshing of the cabinet has begun, will Labour follow suit?
You will see a big change in Cabinet before the next election. John Key has so much talent on the backbench and you can expect that a few Ministers will opt to retire to make way for a fresh face.
Parata is not the only senior Minister who has advised John Key that they want out of politics.
You can’t seriously believe that. Nothing is done without the say-so of Key’s inner circle.
It’s John Key doing the ‘advising’.
Where is the talent on the back bench?
https://national.org.nz/team
Watch for the promotion of Alfred Ngaro,Brett Hudson , Mark Mitchell, Scott Simpson , Paul Foster-Bell, Chris Bishop , Barbara Kuriger,Todd Muller, Alistair Scott to name but a few.
That Mark Mitchell is going to be a good addition
is that because he is involved with Lusk and Slater?
Ngaro is a shoe-in once Lotu Iiga gets his marching orders.
Yes they are back bencher’s, were is the talent.
Brett Hudson, the ‘low profile’ List MP based in Ōhāriu whom the Nat’s put up against Dunne last election. Sales and account management background. Older fella.
Alfred Ngaro another older fella, another List MP, sounds like he has a violence issue.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9139312/Punched-for-not-praying
Mark Mitchell the Rodney MP ex police man whom was said to have hired Simon Lusk whom went on to collaborate with Slater in an attempt to discredit Mitchells political opponents. I wonder if Mitchells email account is now secure lolz
Scott Simpson the MP for Coromandel whom loves to meet up with Donhua Liu, he received a $5000 donation from the controversial Chinese-born property developer for his 2011 election campaign, after meeting Liu about 10 times, including a couple of dinner dates. Connections with Lusk to it’s been said.
Paul Foster-Bell, Mr big spender and apparently a bully with a high staff turnover.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/81513231/pm-national-mp-paul-fosterbells-high-travel-costs-due-to-his-expertise
Chris Bishop, List MP for the Hutt, his Mrs is Jenna Raeburn, she is a lobbyist for Barton Deakin, well lololol
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78650109/arrival-of-australian-political-lobbying-firm-in-nz-raises-questions-about-oversight
Barbara Kuriger, MP for Taranaki-King Country, and a shareholder in 2 family owned farming businesses, ex dairy board. Wonder if her and Judith compare notes?
Todd Muller MP for Bay of Plenty, former Zespri and Fonterra executive and asker of Patsy Questions. What has he done for his voters?
Alastair Scott is MP for Wairarapa and also owner of Matahiwi Estate winery and a former banker, I wonder what his agenda is?
Dang, it appears there is nothing new about this lot, more of the same, more executives, farmers and bankers looking after their own. Wonder what they have done for NZ or their local voters since coming into parliament?
I suspect there is more talent in the beehive rest rooms than on the backbenches of parliament.
Parata sacked – how do you know she was sacked. I dislike the woman but how do you know it is not a resignation? explain please.
more ‘pushed’ than ‘sacked’ is what I heard on the political grapevine
Clear out the perceived dead wood and bring in new faces, win win situation
cracks open champers, swigs merrily..
Hekia isn’t standing next election, she’s resigning from politics…
yay, don’t let the beehive door hit you on your way out.
Forget Parata, this is the real important news of the day:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11731830
Hell yeah
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http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/acci-comes-out-swinging-against-the-aspects-of-the-trans-pacific-partnership-20161017-gs47gz.html
ACCI comes out swinging against the aspects of the Trans Pacific Partnership
“Australia’s biggest business organisation has distanced itself from claims the proposed Trans Pacific Partnership will create hundreds of thousands of jobs and be a “gigantic foundation stone” for Australia’s future.”
Not the person or place I expect these kind of comments..sent by a friend.
“I am not an economist but I have come to the conclusion that central banks collectively have now indeed lost the plot. The whole point of their independence was that they could be brave enough to make people confront reality. Yet in reality they are blowing up a bubble of make-believe money to avoid immediate pain, except for penalising the poor and the prudent.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/17/central-bankers-have-collectively-lost-the-plot-they-must-raise/
Yes raising interest rates would be fantastic for NZ, sarc.
Not important but every Spring I have serious hay fever through to December at least. But none this year. First time in my life.
Anyone else ab-normal strikes?
Really? In dunedin I’ve been a bit worse than usual, a couple of others mentioned it too.
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