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Open mike 26/10/2013

Written By: - Date published: 7:02 am, October 26th, 2013 - 242 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). Step right up to the mike…

242 comments on “Open mike 26/10/2013 ”

  1. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/25/marijuana-cancer_n_4158865.html

    “..A scientist in the United Kingdom has found that compounds derived from marijuana can kill cancerous cells found in people with leukemia..”

    phillip ure..

    • northshoredoc 1.1

      Interesting Phil but a lot of work still to do before there’s any place for cannabinoids in the treatment of any cancers.

      • weka 1.1.1

        We could decriminalise now for management of pain and side effects of treatments though.

        • Tat Loo 1.1.1.1

          As a chiropractor and pain management expert I support that 100%, particularly under the auspices of formal health sector regulation. Common medical pain management approaches are not effective or suitable for tens of thousands of New Zealanders, and there should be more options on the table.

          Just consider how drugs like morphine and fentanyl are legal in NZ for pain management, but marijuana is not. It simply reflects a very outdated historical situation.

          Time we get over ourselves and put more options on the table.

          • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1.1.1.1

            +1
            It would probably be cheaper than those other drugs too. No big pharma company cut to pay.

            • Tat Loo 1.1.1.1.1.1

              If I were a chiropractor cynical about Big Pharma I’d wonder where some of the opposition to the use of marijuana for pain management was coming from. Luckily, I’m not 😈

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.1.2

              It would probably be cheaper than those other drugs too. No big pharma company cut to pay.

              And that’s probably the only reason as to why it’s still illegal. It’s certainly nothing to do with it being bad for you else alcohol and cigarettes would be illegal.

              • northshoredoc

                🙄

              • TheContrarian

                Why would it have anything to do with “big pharma” making it illegal? If it were legal pharmaceutical companies could patent aspects of THC and make a killing as they do with other chemicals.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Why would they be able to patent that which they didn’t invent?

                  • TheContrarian

                    You miss the point Draco. I don’t mean patenting THC itself but using THC to create a whole new class of drugs and patenting those. It doesn’t make sense to say the only reason it is illegal is because pharmaceutical companies could make a killing on patenting drugs derived from cannabis.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Was reading an article a while back (may have linked to it on TS) about magic mushrooms. Limited research is showing that it’s far better than Prozac. It does the same job, doesn’t have anywhere near the side effects that Prozac does and only requires one treatment rather than daily doses.

                      Of course, that’s magic mushies but it has the same problem, commercially, as marijuana – anybody can grow it and we don’t actually need any derived drugs.

                      As for the TPPA: A large chunk of it seems to be about IP and that means we probably won’t be able to change our IP laws to boost innovation. One such change that needs to happen, IMO, is that patents should not be allowed to apply to things that are based upon the natural laws of the universe (same as maths formula aren’t allowed to be patented/copyrighted). That would kill the drug and life patenting that we presently see.

                    • TheContrarian

                      We don’t ‘need’ the derived drugs but considering some people don’t like being stoned and magic mushroom can have unpleasant physical side effects (as well as being hard to control dosage given difference mushrooms have varying levels of the active ingredient) there is still a big market for derived versions to be created.

                      Your comment about big pharma blocking cannabis legalisation doesn’t make sense.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Choice: Grow your own and get stoned or pay out huge amounts of cash you don’t have to big pharma?

                    • TheContrarian

                      Missing the point again.
                      Some people don’t like to get stoned therefore there is an commercial industry in creating a drug which delivers the benefits without the high. I can’t make it more simple than that.

                  • Tat Loo (CV)

                    No doubt when they have us sign the TPPA…

                    • TheContrarian

                      I fail to see what the TPPA has to do with whether or not a pharmaceutical companies could patent a drug made from THC

          • Rodel 1.1.1.1.2

            TatLoo..
            .”Just consider how drugs like morphine and fentanyl are legal in NZ for pain management, but marijuana is not. It simply reflects a very outdated historical situation.”

            Very well stated…in a nutshell.Should be quoted a lot.

            • northshoredoc 1.1.1.1.2.1

              No it reflects what is registered by medsafe.

              • weka

                For a science dude you are a bit short on the logic there doc. It reflects what is registered by medsafe, but that’s not the only thing it reflects. People can use all sorts of things for pain relief that have never been ciminilised. Why was cannabis?

              • Foreign Waka

                No it shows what can be controlled, regulated and taxed. Do you propose that Marijuana is more dangerous than Morphine?

                • TheContrarian

                  “Marijuana is more dangerous than Morphine?”

                  If you remove the addictive nature of morphine and look primarly on it’s effect on the body it is less dangerous than marijuana. Purely from a physiological standpoint.

                  • Foreign Waka

                    Call me naive, but isn’t the addictive nature what makes it so dangerous? I mean, if you go one step further and add the derivative heroine it hardly gets any more suicidal. This is by my reckoning by far – pretty much as far as it gets – dangerous than marijuana.

                    Some recognizable people who died from a Morphine overdose:

                    Hank Williams, Janet Achurch, Lenny Bruce, Tim Buckley, Chris Farley, Sigmund Freud, Paul Gray, Brent Mydland, Gram Parsons, Brad Renfro, Count Gottfried from Biesmark, Edward E. Hannegan

                  • Tat Loo (CV)

                    If you remove the addictive nature of morphine and look primarly on it’s effect on the body it is less dangerous than marijuana. Purely from a physiological standpoint.

                    That is the stupidest, and most dangerous incorrect statement that I’ve come across all day. I daresay it’s probably a deliberate lie.

                    It’s virtually impossible for someone overusing marijuana to die from it. Maybe if they choke on an accidentally swallowed joint?

                    In comparison it’s dead simple to die from overusing morphine (or sometimes even appropriately using it). A combination of respiratory suppression, coma and shock/cardiac arrest will typically do it.

                    • TheContrarian

                      Yes overdose is easy but in a controlled circumstance (like a hospital) morphine is extremely clean and does little to no damage to the body. That’s why it continues to be the gold standard in pain relief.

          • weka 1.1.1.1.3

            “Just consider how drugs like morphine and fentanyl are legal in NZ for pain management, but marijuana is not. It simply reflects a very outdated historical situation.”

            yeah, but I wouldn’t like to see cannabis as a plant only legal by prescription. If big pharma wants to develop medicines from cannabis once its legal, more power to them. But let people use the plant itself as they see fit too.

            • Chris 1.1.1.1.3.1

              “If big pharma wants to develop medicines from cannabis ”

              Weka, they already do manufacture pain relief meds from cannabis. In Sth Africa it is available in liquid form. Can’t remember the Pharma at the moment, but will post link if I find it.

      • Tat Loo 1.1.2

        Interesting Phil but a lot of work still to do before there’s any place for cannabinoids in the treatment of any cancers.

        Agreed. However for the treatment of cancer associated pain (not for the treatment of cancer itself), it should be one of the options on the table.

        • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1.2.1

          I think there is a derivative (forgot the name) that is available to chronic pain sufferers, but it is a whopping $500 a month.

        • northshoredoc 1.1.2.2

          No it should not there are plenty of proven options on the table at present.

          • miravox 1.1.2.2.1

            “No it should not there are plenty of proven options on the table at present.”

            I don’t know about cancer – but for inflammatory arthritis flares another pain reduction option that works without knocking you out would be gratefully received.

          • Tat Loo 1.1.2.2.2

            Yes there are plenty of proven options. And there should be more. Because for plenty of patients today’s options may start off being effective but eventually end up being unsuitable, with the development of many unwanted adverse effects and reduced efficacy, over a period of months or years.

            • phillip ure 1.1.2.2.2.1

              @ tat loo +1..

              ..it is also good for the treatment of nausea from the side-effects of chemo..

              and @ northshoredoc..

              ..do you have any logical/rational reasons for being opposed to cannabis being an alternative-option for many drugs..?

              ..drugs that often have serious side-effects..?

              ..and as a personal testimony of sorts..i was recently cured of the hepatitis i had been lugging around since junkie-days..

              ..and i have found..in hindsight..is that an effect of hep..is feeling shit..

              ..you wake up in the morning feeling pretty shit..

              ..so for decades i self-medicated with cannabis..

              ..and once again..in hindsight..i am glad i did..

              ..and tho’ i still use cannabis..i use far less..

              ..it is now more recreational..

              ..and there is no longer that need/drive to use it as medicine..

              ..to stop feeling crap..

              ..so..once again..in hindsight..

              ..i would urge all those with hep be offered the option of medical-cannabis..

              ..to help them stop feeling like shit all the time..

              ..’cos i know..it works..

              ..phillip ure..

              • TheContrarian

                Did your former junkie days also have an effect on your ability to construct sentences?

                • ghostrider888

                  inhalations and exhalations
                  integrations and excavations

                • LynWiper

                  TC You have the choice to read and ‘hear’ the personal message and experience shared or move on by. Why choose to criticise the structure? Try a little kindness.

                • @ contrarian..

                  ..quite possibly..but not really..

                  ..i blame ee cummings..(for showing me the option of stripping away of the false-honorifics that are capital letters..)

                  ..and writing words that are designed to be spoken out aloud..(blame bfm 4 that..)

                  ..a bit of a shocker for traditionalists..eh..?

                  ..that throwing all the rules out the window..

                  ..but if you like..

                  ..you can run with the junkie-reason..

                  ..and really..that moniker you have chosen is a contradiction..eh..?

                  ..’cos you really are one of those traditionalists..eh..?

                  ..wot with yr clinging to the wreckage of capital letters..

                  ..eh..?

                  ..phillip ure..

                • weka

                  “Did your former junkie days also have an effect on your ability to construct sentences?”

                  How about first you explain to the rest of us why you have such prejudicial and dickhead views on drug addicts?

                  • TheContrarian

                    I have no prejudicial views towards drug addicts. I’m making fun of his syntax, not his former drug abuse. What do I care what he did with himself in the past or the future.

                    Asshole.

                    • weka

                      I don’t believe you. Either you think there is something wrong with being and addict and/or that being an addict = x,y,z, or you are moron. How can inferring that being a former junkie makes one stupid when it comes to English grammar not be a comment on that person’s past?

                    • TheContrarian

                      Ok don’t believe me.

                    • weka

                      Ok, ignore my argument and I’ll just assume you are both bigoted and stupid.

                    • TheContrarian

                      Whatever suits you.

                • Foreign Waka

                  If you really are inclined to help you first have to stop judging.

                • Murray Olsen

                  My former junkie days had no discernible effect on my ability to construct sentences, nor on my ability to solve differential equations. Your constant harping, on the other hand, has quite an effect on my ability to see good in all people.

          • Murray Olsen 1.1.2.2.3

            If a person is in pain for whatever reason and finds that smoking a joint every now and then, or drinking cannabis tea, helps them, why should the medical profession or law enforcement even be involved?

            I take morphine every day quite legally and don’t like the effects of cannabis on my thinking, so I don’t smoke it. There are people who have the opposite experience. Bloody hell, let them light up.

      • phillip ure 1.1.3

        @ nthshore doc..

        ..of course this story is just one thread in a yarn of investigations into the health benefit possibilities of/from cannabis..

        ..and a manifestation of the madness that is prohibition..

        ..is that illegality has stopped all such research for decades..

        ..that has now changed..

        ..and so yes..it is early days..

        ..but many researchers are excited about what they are finding..

        ..with the above story just the latest in a litany..

        ..phillip ure..

        • northshoredoc 1.1.3.1

          Oh there’s a bit going on Phil – early days yet and certainly no cause to think that it will useful beyond the analgesic and and anticachexic effects.

          http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page5

          I tend to get a bit annoyed with posts like your first one regarding leukaemia as it is misleading in the extreme a bit like the pharma company who sold few million in mussel extract a few years back after misleading items suggesting it was useful for cancer and then got slapped with a wetbusticket 40k fine.

          • phillip ure 1.1.3.1.1

            @ northshoredoc….’annoyed’..?..really..?

            ..are you suggesting all that research currently going on is a fools’ errand..?

            ..and if a doc..are you a cancer-treatment specialist..?

            ..or a g.p..?

            ..(just trying to get yr informed-opinion into some kinda context..eh..?..)

            ..and why not legalise it for those reasons/benefits you cite as being ‘useful’..

            ..’the analgesic and and anticachexic effects.’..?

            ..aren’t they enough to be getting on with ..?

            ..and i will counter yr link..(in which..b.t.w..many/most of the cited references are at least 20 yrs old..with an alarming number dating back to the 70’s..)..

            ..with what i have compiled over more recent times..

            http://whoar.co.nz/?s=cannabis+cancer

            ..fill yer boots..!..eh..?

            ..phillip ure..

      • David H 1.1.4

        Thats cool I’ll just keep taking my ‘medicine’ the same way thanks.

  2. miravox 2

    Not even collateral damage – Assassinated.

    The last time I saw my mother, Momina Bibi, was the evening before Eid al-Adha. She was preparing my children’s clothing and showing them how to make sewaiyaan, a traditional sweet made of milk. She always used to say: the joy of Eid is the excitement it brings to the children.

    Last year, she never had that experience. The next day, 24 October 2012, she was dead, killed by a US drone that rained fire down upon her as she tended her garden.

  3. chrissy 4

    Liked the trailer to 7 Days with David Shearer. (bugger, not again!) Perfect self-deprecation. Very funny. He’s like a different person now.

    • LynWiper 4.1

      Yes, I thought it was a great reintroduction. Excellent use of humour. Well done David Shearer.

  4. richard 5

    Russel Brand’s editorial in the New Statesman (it is very long) –
    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/10/russell-brand-on-revolution

    … and a counter argument, of sorts –
    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/25/i_dont_stand_with_russell_brand_and_neither_should_you/

  5. Steve 6

    The Herald hits the panic button as their finest Jonolists, O’Sullivan and Armstrong, tag team to tell us why Shonkey’s in charge and got options for a win in 2014.

    I can smell the fear.

    • risildowgtn 6.1

      hahahaha and Keys fist is oh so scarey bahahahhahahahaha

    • QoT 6.2

      They have to lay the ground now to make Colin Craig sound palatable to the National voters of the North Shore. “This cup-of-tea candidate won’t make you look like total pawns the way Banks did to your mates in Epsom! Honest!”

  6. Saarbo 7

    National’s LVR policy was always going to have this affect.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11146480

    According to this NZ Herald article, rent in Auckland is going through the roof. So who is this policy (LVR) favouring? Existing house owners but mostly LANDLORDS. This National government is just atrocious, they are really fucking up so much.

    Another major FAIL.

    The answer is clearly a CGT (comprehensive, not half arsed like Australia’s) also taking away the tax deductibility of interest cost on investment houses. And a massive social housing programme focussed on Auckland, this shit that National talk about increasing supply of land will lead to a reduction in the cost of housing is absolute bull shit…greedy land owners will simply not sell as soon as there is a slight reduction in their value of the land.

    • Tat Loo 7.1

      Trying to fit more than 30% of NZ’s population on less than 0.3% of the country’s land area isn’t a great move.

      IMO it’s time for extensive regional development. Let’s get businesses and industry moving to centres like… Whangarei, Rotorua, Napier/Hastings, New Plymouth, Palmerston North, Blenheim, Timaru, Oamaru, Dunedin, Invercargill.

      • Saarbo 7.1.1

        “Trying to fit more than 30% of NZ’s population on less than 0.3% of the country’s land area isn’t a great move.”

        When its framed like that Tat, it does seem ridiculous. But yes, there is some real need for policy that will rebalance some aspects in our economy and currently house prices in Auckland are way out of whack, in my view New Zealand’s biggest issue because expensive house rentals (which are a function of house prices) are one of the main causes of poverty.

        • Tat Loo 7.1.1.1

          Indeed. Expensive rentals feed the capitalist/banker class by creating a huge updraft from workers’ wages going straight into their pockets.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2

        IMO it’s time for extensive regional development.

        IMO, one of the biggest drivers of regional development in previous decades was the awards rates as moving out of the big cities wouldn’t result in a massive decrease in income.

    • Lanthanide 7.2

      1. Bring in comprehensive capital gains tax.
      2. Get rid of interest deductibility cost on mortgages for residential rentals (actually probably a very tricky policy to write without causing preserve consequences and incentives)
      3. End government “accommodation supplement”.

      These policies if acted in tandem would probably drop house prices by 20-30% overnight.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.3

      This National government is just atrocious, they are really fucking up so much.

      No they’re not as they’re doing precisely what the rentier class want – upping the incomes of the rentiers without the rentiers having to do any more or even to produce any wealth.

  7. Ennui 8

    Ennui is very much a socialist on social issues….during the work week Ennui manages companies which employ lots of people. This week E was hatching plans for one company to increase jobs from 25 to 35 over the next year despite the hard trading conditions. Thats called creating employment and expanding the tax base. E deals with lots of companies, most are struggling, they don’t pay tax because they don’t make a profit…the tax is raised via PAYE and GST. The owners of these companies get short return for risking their money to create more, in the process of which people get jobs. That risk goes without recognition by most of the workers, most of the contributors to this column.

    The point of the above is this: every other person on this column rants about who the government should be funding, paying, subsidising etc etc etc. Nobody stops to consider where the cash comes from. The assumption is that even if the pot is unlimited that they have a divine right to some part of it.

    This might sound like some RWNJ post: it is not. It merely states how real places of work function, how the real economy is underpinned. before you next demand subsidies for your own interests please take a pause and ask: where will the cash come from? Who pays? What does that mean to other employers and workers?

    • Tat Loo 8.1

      Excellent point Ennui. Where does the money come from? I am an employer myself, although on a smaller scale than you.

      Consider this in terms of the macroeconomy:

      – If the Government is making a surplus, it is taking more money from households and the private sector than it is putting back in, to the dollar.

      – If the Government is making a deficit, it is providing more money to households and the private sector than it is taking out, to the dollar.

      Also:

      There are a huge amount of non-circulating hoarded dollars at the moment. If you think about it as tens of millions of hundred dollar notes sitting in a deep freezer the size of a small warehouse, not getting anything useful done in the community (but helping the banks and wall St out a great deal) you get the idea.

      Last point: only one entity in the world can manufacture valid NZD and issue them – the NZ Government.

    • lprent 8.2

      Ennui: You’ll have probably noticed over time that I’m kind of obsessed with exports – especially ones that have little to do with animals and trees. There is a reason for that.

    • @ ennui..’where does the money come from..?’

      ..a capital gains tax..yes..(and increases in tax paid only for the top earners..not those struggling/juggling in the middle..)

      ..but perhaps the simplest/most straightforward/least painful revenue-gatherer..

      ..is a financial transaction tax..where each inter-bank transaction accrues a miniscule bite on it..with the volume of transactions adding up to a serious amount of money..

      ..and don’t forget that treasury research showed that a financial transaction tax on the banks/ters..

      ..would raise enough revenue to enable us to do away with g.s.t..

      ..whoar..!..eh..?

      ..so the question has to be:..why not..?

      ..hope that helps answer yr ‘where will the money come from?’-question..

      ..phillip ure..

    • Saarbo 8.4

      Yep. I have been looking to purchase a small business over the last year, all of the businesses that I have seen for sale NONE seem to be making decent taxable profits, if any. But GST is a real prick of a tax for small businesses, as small businesses often sell at “price points” that customers are really resistant to pay above, so English’s GST increase in Oct 2010 basically meant that many small businesses have had to absorb the 2.5% GST increase therefore reducing margin and taxable income. So I think your comment shows why Income Tax should be raised before GST…the Top Marginal tax rate needs to be increased and CGT needs to be implemented, it seems that the only houses and farms that are being purchased these days are by people who already own several and dont actually need them.

      Small businesses are really struggling in New Zealand, no doubt about that. Brian Gaynor on RNZ the other day mentioned that people above 55 have a lot of money and people below 30 have plenty of money to spend but most people between these age groups are struggling, I guess this group are trying to raise a family and buy a house.

      This is where DC”s Labour will encourage policy that stimulates the economy (I think he mentioned “new keynesian” in TS once?) I hope (perhaps a decrease in GST would help stimulate at the same time as helping the poor). And also as Iprent points out…we need more exports, but Im happy if it comes from farms as long as it doesn’t stuff up our rivers/environment.

      • greywarbler 8.4.1

        Saarbo
        That’s a good point. I can’t see why anyone thoughtful would consider it good to have a two figure rate, and more to be continually raising the flat tax of GST. Isn’t it collected on all the things that lower income people would put their money towards? Though does that include rent? I don’t pay rent and I’ve forgotten.

        But it’s a great way to get a large proportion back by the government of every $ going into the hand of beneficiaries. Sort of like a flag fall for purchases.

        Why should I have to pay 15% to the government for every step in living and transacting I make with others trying to make a living. Now I do regard that as theft!

        And I first came across it in Switzerland. In the 70’s it was a country so wealthy that they hardly seemed to have any sale for second hand utility goods. They tended to update and store the older still useful ones in the basement. Which most of them had as a design feature.

        They were wealthy enough to pay 15% VAT or gst. We are not. It would be a useful and reasonable tax if it was 5%. More becomes a burden on the lower income who are actually more in outcome mode.

        • Tat Loo 8.4.1.1

          Residential rents are excluded from GST, commercial rents are not.

          Residential electricity and residential phone/internet should also be made GST exclusive.

          GST on rates for properties valued over $1M should be doubled. Also known as a quick and dirty land tax.

        • mikesh 8.4.1.2

          GST is payable on commercial rent, but not on domestic rent. I don’t really know why this is so. It could be argued that rent is an investment return, like interest, but that argument would apply just as much to commercial rent as to domestic.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.4.1.3

          GST needs to be removed as it’s regressive and hurts the poor the most.

          • greywarbler 8.4.1.3.1

            DTB
            +1 (and 15%).

            • Tat Loo (CV) 8.4.1.3.1.1

              GST needs to be reduced to 5.0%, but kept as a mechanism with which the government can control consumption and money supply if necessary, in the future.

        • Foreign Waka 8.4.1.4

          GST is actually a quite unjust tax as it is applied as a one size fits all approach to gather revenue. A person earning $ 15.00 per hour is by far harder hit with GST on every living expense that anyone at $ 30.00. Hence it is inherently unjust. The role of any government, regardless what colors they fly, is the fair and just treatment of its citizen/residents. My feeling is that income tax should be teared in incremental steps – the more you earn, the more tax you pay – and GST reduced (8% ?). I don’t belief that a universal transaction tax will help either as this is just another way to grab money from those who can ill afford this. Most transactions these days are electronic and hence will have the tax deducted straight away. Giving cash deals that can be manipulated in tax terms even more reason to exist.

          • greywarbler 8.4.1.4.1

            Foreign Waka I like your joke about tax being teared, not tiered. 😀

            • Foreign Waka 8.4.1.4.1.1

              sorry, it must have brought tears to my eyes when I wrote this. Of cause it should read tiered. Thanks 🙂

        • Saarbo 8.4.1.5

          Yes Greywarbler, There have been a number of suggestion that we need to put the GST rate up to 17.5% to deal with our aging population http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1102/S00020/threat-of-175-gst-sickening.htm . One of the reason I understand that Treasury like GSt is that they believe that it is difficult to avoid paying, which is incredibly naive…there are plenty of people dealing in cash deals to avoid gst. I reckon it should be 10% at the most. I understand that GST makes up $15 billion of tax revenue, so if it was reduced to 10% then the Govt would have to find around $5 billion from other sources….its a really horrible tax in my view, it amazes me that treasury and other economic commentators often talk about raising it more.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.4.1.5.1

            One of the reason I understand that Treasury like GSt is that they believe that it is difficult to avoid paying,

            The only reason Treasury (and the RWNJs) like it is because it means that taxes don’t have to be put up on the rich.

          • greywarbler 8.4.1.5.2

            Saarbo
            Thanks interesting. This business about Treasury wanting things simpler. Its such an oxymoron when you think that computers are supposed to be great because it makes calculation and number crunching simpler, so why Treasury bothers about simpler as if we have rows of clerks perched at desks with quill pens.

            It’s just bloody laziness and poverty of mind. It’s the same thinking that wants to introduce flat tax rather than have progressive as needed. It’s the same sort of thinking that won’t be bothered with tax tables where wage tax is calculated from different columns, used to be general and then for people with dependent children, F1, F2, F3 which I think was where the tax breaks stopped.

            More help for larger families might then have involved applying for a state house to help with their care. A change in this method of up-front tax breaks had been replaced by special help for working families which gets a hostile reaction from members of society who view themselves as self-generated special treasures to the world now they have landed. Other babies and little ones can go jump. If it was Treasury that acrtivated the tax changes – they lack common sense. Call in a child of five (G.Marx) or Peter Dunne (interchangeable).

            (Referring to families, I am listening to Radionz 11.12 Paul Ehrlich – Predicting Collapse on Radionz saying that modern people who love children choose to have small families, not large ones. They care about the type of future their children will have by joining with others in limiting the overpopulation we already have.)

          • Rogue Trooper 8.4.1.5.3

            Yes, this Saarbo

    • Draco T Bastard 8.5

      Nobody stops to consider where the cash comes from.

      Actually, I’ve considered that for quite some time and have said on numerous occasions (another time down thread) that we need to stop the cash coming from the private banks bearing interest and that it should come from government without interest.

      The assumption is that even if the pot is unlimited that they have a divine right to some part of it.

      They do. It is, after all, the peoples economy and their resources being used.

      It merely states how real places of work function, how the real economy is underpinned.

      It represents how the present system works. There’s one thing wrong with that – the present system doesn’t work and thus it needs to be changed.

  8. BLiP 9

    [sigh] . . . another John Key lie. He told Failfax that the tip off regarding Len Brown’s affair was just Mark Mitchell gossiping at a cocktail party. Turns out, that’s not true. According to the now sorrowful Penny Webster . . .

    . . . the comment Mr Mitchell made to her was not at a cocktail party or as part of idle gossip.

    “I was in a business meeting with Mark over electoral/council matters when our conversation turned to local government elections and the mayoral campaign.

    “Mark made a passing comment, something like ‘scuttlebutt floating around for a while about the mayor having a skeleton in his closet; if there is a skeleton I hope that his wife and children know because families are always the victims in these sort of things’.

    I laughed, saying, ‘I’m sure it isn’t correct,’ and he agreed with me . . .

    . . . when lies designed to distance National Ltd™ from the attempted blackmail of Len Brown come straight from the top and, now, involve public apologies for even involving a National Ltd™ MP, my spidey senses start tingling. The New Zealand Fox News Herald Sunday paper apparently has an interview with Luigi Weewedgie; it will be interesting to see if the distancing efforts are carried through there as well.

    • grumpy 9.1

      Good on Penny for apologising…..

    • chris73 9.2

      So we’ll completely ignores the lefts (well mainly Lens highly paid spin doctors) attempts to paint this as a right-wing conspiracy then? Good to know

    • Not a PS Staffer 9.3

      Mark Mitchell, MP for North Shore, is a former NZ Policeman who..

      “launched an international business career which included the start-up of my own company specialising in hostage rescue, supply chain security and risk management. Working closely with the World Economic Forum, I helped to establish Logistic Emergency Response Teams…. ”
      see http://www.markmitchell.co.nz/mark-mitchell-profile.html

      Mitchell’s father-in-law Frank Gill was a National Party North Shore MP as well as being a minister and ambasador to Washington.
      Mitchell is a well integrated into the National Party real power structures. Mitchell is also well integrated into the Special Services network, the Police and the Intelligence Services.

      Mark Mitchell knew about the Len Brown affair because there was a professional project to displace Len that went beyond the Palino/Slater/Wewege amateurs.

      • chris73 9.3.1

        Nope I guess the conspiracy is still strong

        • BLiP 9.3.1.1

          Did John Key lie about how the information got to Len Brown . . . Yes or No?

          • Dumrse 9.3.1.1.1

            Sook sook. Nobody gives a shit about your comments. Focus on the message and don’t get hung up how it was delivered. Your post is childish.

      • Bill Drees 9.3.2

        The Nats/Rodney Hide wanted control over Auckland.
        Wellington did not want an independent Auckland.
        Had a Nat stooge like Palino or Williamson won Auckland the new Rail projects would be cancelled or hobbled. Urban sprawl would be encouraged. The Auckland Council would become a tame lapdog for National and Wellington.

        The Council CEO and many of the CCO Boards and C level execs were appointed by National, Rodney Hide and Wellington. They are all for replacement under a Leftish Len and Council.
        There are many powerful people who were disappointed that Len could not be challenged by a credible candidate. The prospect of a damaging scandal was a god-send.

        John Key, for whom Mark Mitchell seconds for the busy neighbouring Helensville MP from time to time, knows more about the plan to displace Len than he is saying.

        • chris73 9.3.2.1

          Yes because the plan was to make Len have numerous affairs, get free or cheap rates from hotels, be a reference for his mistress, send threatening texts, go on record as saying theres nothing else and then go into hiding after the story breaks

          or

          Len can’t keep it in his pants, tells far too many lies and brought it all on himself

          • BLiP 9.3.2.1.1

            Yes because the plan was to make tempt Len into having numerous an affairs, enabled by mates at SkyCity get free or cheap rates from hotels, then set up to be a reference for his mistress, while operatives send threatening texts, while John Key goes on record as saying “there’s nothing” here else to see here, and then go send Luigi into hiding after the story breaks

            FIFY – no charge.

            • tinfoilhat 9.3.2.1.1.1

              Sorry but I’m sticking with the more obvious explanation that a very ordinary mayor who should know better displayed some stunning lack of judgement over a prolonged period the rest is all just a rise show.

        • Olwyn 9.3.2.2

          It does look like that, with first prize being Len’s resignation, and second prize being a Len who is weakened by public scandal, and hence compliant. I personally hope it goes the other way, and that Len seeks to redeem himself by doing battle against them for his city.

          • Draco T Bastard 9.3.2.2.1

            I don’t think Len has been weakened by the affair as most people just don’t care. What has happened is that most people are sickened by the RWNJs poking their nose into other peoples bedrooms.

            • TheContrarian 9.3.2.2.1.1

              “I don’t think Len has been weakened by the affair as most people just don’t care.”

              I wouldn’t be to sure about that. Sure I don’t care, you don’t care and it seems most people here don’t care but I wonder about the left-wing yet socially conservative, religious faction who may have voted because of Brown’s self professed religious values. Something to take into account.

            • QoT 9.3.2.2.1.2

              I think the question isn’t really whether Len has been weakened, as we’re just not in a situation where weakening him crowns another person. The vast majority of left voters aren’t going to defect to Minto or Bright, and the right doesn’t have a solid candidate.

              If there were the option of a by-election with someone right enough for the right and socially liberal enough for a chunk of the left (coughMauriceWilliamsoncough) then it could be a completely different matter.

          • JK 9.3.2.2.2

            Ah ! I think you’ve got it, Olwyn. I’ve been wondering what’s behind it all.
            Mark Mitchell – with his background of security and SIS – would not have deliberately tipped off Penny Webster without some sort of ulterior motive. This way the “real powers” in National give a drubbing to Collins’ mates – Slater, Palino – while at the same time putting Len more firmly in their power. I hope like you, Olwyn, that Len – silly stupid idiot that he’s been – can see he’s also been used by the top Nats, and redeems himself by battling more intensely for his city’s good, than for his own future.

        • Foreign Waka 9.3.2.3

          The sad part about all this is that real people are involved, Mr Brown’s wife and children. I do not belief hat NZlanders are as vulgar as Americans when it comes to revealing and “marketing” affairs hoping for a “Bill Clinton”. The reality is that there should be more focus on the move to divide a country into city states. When I look at your comment, this is already taking place. Back to the times of the Medici then….

      • BLiP 9.3.3

        Mark Mitchell knew about the Len Brown affair because there was a professional project to displace Len that went beyond the Palino/Slater/Wewege amateurs.

        Seems like it. Wewege has got “operative” written all over him. There’s a heap load of cash tied up in Auckland’s assets which, thus far, Len Brown has managed to keep largely intact. Must have been incredibly frustrating for the business elite to have had the carefully laid down plans, as put in place by Rodney Hide for John Banks to deliver, stymied by pesky democracy and some upstart from Manukau. Plenty of incentive to set up a honey-trap.

        • tinfoilhat 9.3.3.1

          I’ve seen some delusional clap trap in my time mostly from those on the right side of the political spectrum but this takes the cake.

          Len is of exactly the same ilk as Hide and Banks – in it for himself and his mates.

      • millsy 9.3.4

        Wing Commander Frank Gill.

        FYI: One of the hardliners in Muldoon’s cabinet I believe..

        • Anne 9.3.4.1

          Air Commodore Frank Gill millsy. I am told he insisted on being called Air Commodore at all times. A leery old goat. How do I know? He tried it on me and no… he got short shrift!

          Paid him back. He rang for a weather forecast one Xmas holiday many years ago. He and Muldoon were off for a summer boat cruise around North Cape. I told them not to go because there was a trop. cyclone moving into the area. They didn’t go. The cyclone trundled into the West Tasman and swiftly petered out which we already knew was going to happen. Gave me a few giggles.

          • Tim 9.3.4.1.1

            Frank Gill ….. I remember how we used to ridicule the guy – including amongst the little Natty Khandallah Woodmancote Road ilk I once had the misfortune of dwelling amongst.

            He was around during suspender-belt Skeith’s reign.
            I have a vague recollection of his being referred to as “Taxi Frank”.

            I could delve further into the annals of the brain, but I think I’d rather go and piss on his grave – so if you could give me directions as to where that is, I’ll remember next time I’m in his vicinity. As I relieve myself, I’ll be confident I’m expressing (figuratively) the feelings of most that ever had anything to do with the prick.
            (I’ve a weak bladder dontcha know – I put it down to being the offspring of the tall story teller of WWII tales).

            It’s a bugger though sometimes. I often wonder about the legacy some of these Nattyists think they’re leaving their offspring (when all/most of their bullshit emerges – as it surely will).

            Simon Bridges …. Paula Bennett … Nucki Kaye?? … Hek Yea! Parata.
            Christ! they’re full of it!.

            Must be a bugger to know that – before you die – your offspring will come to know that you were an utter cunt

      • Anne 9.3.5

        … Mitchell is also well integrated into the Special Services network, the Police and the Intelligence Services.

        Very, very interesting. Thank you Not a PS Staffer. You appear to be an insider (sort of) on the politician in question. Could it be Mark Mitchell was instructed by someone to drop hints to a councillor associated with Len Brown about the impending scandal? If so, we can but speculate as to the reason why…

  9. joe90 10

    Krugman reviews The Climate Casino:

    I enjoyed The Climate Casino, and felt that I learned a lot from it. Yet as I read it, I couldn’t help wondering whom, exactly, the book was written for. It is, after all, a calm, reasoned tract, marshaling the best available scientific and economic evidence on behalf of a pragmatic policy approach. And here’s the thing: just about everyone responsive to that kind of argument already favors strong climate action. It’s the other guys who constitute the problem.

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/nov/07/climate-change-gambling-civilization/

    edit: i do like my new avatar – muchly WTF…ish

  10. greywarbler 11

    An idea. For getting the meaning and value of young people, and their parents, thinking and involved in politics. Could work very well in South Auckland.

    This morning 9..30ish on Radionz a biologist, dealing with amphibians, was talking about getting people in Haiti to take more interest in their environment and learn about it and how to preserve it. He referred to one mountain that has more frog types on it than most other places on the planet, and endangered.

    He said they have lots of problems in Haiti and therefore they have not much time to think about such things. And there was not much factual knowledge about frogs. The idea was that frogs could pee or spit on you and you would go blind. So people tended to kill them on sight.

    So the team got an idea for the youngsters to find out information as a project. They would go and observe and were given cameras to get a record of the habits and lifestyle and locations of these frogs and then of course they were all shown to the youngsters and their parents. In the few months before they finished that project the understanding of frogs was wide, the attitude had changed.

    What if there were groups given subjects to cover, with teams who wanted to work together and choose a subject from a set list of aspects of society and be in charge of an inexpensive and appropriate camera? Making films is in. It would be awesome, and great record for family interest, cultural and neighbourhood interest and history, as background for interested local people to work for better conditions along with the children who wanted to participate. So Pacifica would get their children involved early in political forays into policy. Half of that non-voting group there would vanish and would continue to decrease to perhaps an 80/20 swing away from non-voting. Could be done I think.

    • Tat Loo 11.1

      Very nice

      Big societal change for very little money, producing a lot of creativity and community involvement. Win win win.

  11. chris73 12

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11146498

    – Well this seems fair, banned from seeing your own kid without supervision but set to become a teacher…

    • joe90 12.1

      Image, a woman with a troubled past endeavours to put it all behind her with hopes of a better future – the nerve.
      /

      • chris73 12.1.1

        I’m thinking that if shes not allowed unsupervised contact with her own kid then maybe its not a good idea to allow her unsupervised contact with many kids but thats only my opinion of course. I’m sure the parents of kids would be delighted if they were to find out (which of course they won’t)

        • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.1

          I take it that you didn’t fully read the article and missed this bit:

          Council spokesman Peter Lind said before any teacher was granted registration, they needed to demonstrate they had been satisfactorily trained to teach, were likely to be a satisfactory teacher, were of good character as evidenced by a police check and were fit to be a teacher.

          Seems that she’s not automatically going to become a teacher and, to be honest, all the things that she’s accused of doing are the result of a crashed relationship. It’s more than likely that she’s over them.

    • Rogue Trooper 12.2

      scraping by chris73

    • richard 13.1

      Don’t worry Chris. As we get closer to the election and Fairfax and the Herald get more panicky, there will be lots more of these stories.

    • The Al1en 13.2

      People coming of benefits happens all the time, they’re just usually aren’t accompanied by news articles with judgemental subtexts from paid reporters pushing an agenda.

      Anyway, when the present government gets fu*ked over next year, you’ll see a lot more ‘good news’, as everyone knows there are many less unemployed under a Labour led government.
      That will make you happy too, no? 😉

      • ghostrider888 13.2.1

        Cor Blimey!

        • The Al1en 13.2.1.1

          It’s a fair cop, guvnor. Given how unemployment reached historic highs under national from the historic lows under the last Labour government, you’d think righties, who love to moan about job seekers, would be sworn socialists by now and eager to change leadership at a moments notice.

          I’m guessing many aren’t really interested in reducing unemployment at all, and enjoy the easy meat, beat up scapegoating instead.

    • Kevin Welsh 13.3

      Bet we don’t see a story of a reformed tax dodger though…

  12. Morrissey 14

    Crazy-ass predictions that make no sense
    No.1: TE REO PUTAKE

    My team has trawled the internet in search of the millennium’s maddest, most moronic statements. We’re kicking off with a real doozy. Enjoy….

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    The NRL will be expanding to WA and they will make it work.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    —–Hapless Standardista Te Reo Putake tapped that out on one miserable Wednesday morning in August 2012. It has not yet been ascertained what hallucinogenic substance, if any, was responsible for that minor classic.

    Open mike 01/08/2012

    Crazy-ass predictions that make no sense is a series devoted to the deluded, the dull, and the dimwitted. Comments, suggestions and submissions for the series will be gratefully received.

    • chris73 14.1

      Did you make a note of this post to reference at a later date or just go back through the archives until you found something?

      • Morrissey 14.1.1

        Did you make a note of this post to reference at a later date or just go back through the archives until you found something?

        I have a long memory. The other day, my old friend swam into my consciousness for some reason, and due to some untraceable series of synaptic connections, I recalled he had made a bizarre statement about the NRL. A quick boolean exercise soon found the offending statement. That’s the thing with the internet: as poor John Palino is finding out, whatever foolish or knavish message you post, tweet, reddit or email, it will come back to haunt you.

      • Te Reo Putake 14.1.2

        He’s a stalker, Chris. Fixated on me for what feels like years now. I suppose its a step up from his earlier efforts on other forums where he used to stalk himself under a variety of pseudonyms. Perhaps the meds are finally kicking in?

        The funny thing about this post is that my prediction remains as true today as it was last year. The Pirates (for that is the name of the team) have already been formed. The NRL will look at confirming expansion post season next year and the two teams likely to be added in season 2017 are the Pirates and the provisionally named Brisbane Bombers. Though the latter is under pressure from a bid from the Central Coast that is extremely popular with fans across Oz.

        Anyhoo, just another bit of Breen bullshit. Nothing to worry about, really.

        • ghostrider888 14.1.2.1

          Weapon of Choice Slim.

        • Morrissey 14.1.2.2

          He’s a stalker, Chris. Fixated on me for what feels like years now.

          Oy vey! What rich irony coming from someone whose entire raison d’être seems to be the stalking of this writer, i.e., moi.

          I suppose its a step up from his earlier efforts on other forums [sic] where he used to stalk himself under a variety of pseudonyms.

          Oh? Could you provide some evidence to back up that remarkable allegation? I would note that you have already been burned on this forum, earning a stern warning from the headmaster Mr. Prent, after you had foolishly insinuated I was another poster.

          Perhaps the meds are finally kicking in?

          Oy vey! Can we work on the jokes, old buddy? You’re not achieving ANY cut-through at the moment.

          The funny thing about this post is that my prediction remains as true today as it was last year. The Pirates (for that is the name of the team) have already been formed. The NRL will look at confirming expansion post season next year and the two teams likely to be added in season 2017 are the Pirates and the provisionally named Brisbane Bombers. Though the latter is under pressure from a bid from the Central Coast that is extremely popular with fans across Oz.

          We look forward to the Perth Pirates taking Perth by storm. One thing is for sure if they DO get off the ground (something that NRL players rarely have to do, by the way) is that tickets will be easy to come by.

          Anyhoo, just another bit of Breen bullshit. Nothing to worry about, really.

          Hmmmmm. Judging by how exercised you are over this, I’d say you were more than a little worried.

          • Lanthanide 14.1.2.2.1

            🙄

            • Morrissey 14.1.2.2.1.1

              Lanthanide, your inability to formulate a coherent reply comes out again, I see. Are you really that hopeless? No wonder you sprang to the defence of poor Hekia Parata when I outed her all that time ago; you were identifying with her inarticulateness as much as her crazy message.

              Hey, Lanthanide, instead of hanging around our minor squabbles, shouldn’t you be hard at work trying to convince us why this morning’s tsunami in Fukushima poses no dangers? No dangers at all?

              Like you did last time.

          • Te Reo Putake 14.1.2.2.2

            Knock yourself out, saddo:

            http://nz.general.narkive.com/gJVa8B9c/public-notice-morrissey-breen-is-still-banned

            “One thing is for sure if they DO get off the ground (something that NRL players rarely have to do, by the way):…”

            Jumping occurs with monotonous regularity in league. About the fifth tackle of every second set, by my count. The other sets end in grubbers.

            Then there’s this collection which includes plenty more of the jumping you’ve apparently never spotted:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ1yu61Okq0

            Anyhoo, hope the first link is a suitable aid to your arvo’s onanistic delights.. I’m off to finish the lawns. Daisies don’t cut themselves, y’know.

            • Morrissey 14.1.2.2.2.1

              It just gets better! Look what our friend has written….

              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

              “Jumping occurs with monotonous regularity in league.”

              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

              I don’t know if that howler is a reflection on your honesty or your perception or your state of mind, or all three.

              What on earth are you going to say next? “Try-scoring occurs with monotonous regularity in cricket”? “Wimbledon AFC looking good to win this year’s European Champions League”? “Jumping occurs with monotonous regularity in ice hockey”?

              Any or all of those would make more sense than your classic.

            • Morrissey 14.1.2.2.2.2

              Jumping occurs with monotonous regularity in league. :rolleyes: About the fifth tackle of every second set, by my count. The other sets end in grubbers.

              In that entire highlights reel, there were three, maybe four, modest attempts at jumping, not one of them contested.

              Then there’s this collection which includes plenty more of the jumping you’ve apparently never spotted:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ1yu61Okq0

              Citing that ground-hugging action as evidence of “plenty of jumping” is kind of like citing THIS as evidence of “plenty of finesse”….

    • richard 14.2

      Not so sure about your assertion that the NRL won’t be expanding to WA …
      http://www.nrl.com/bulldogs-to-bring-nrl-game-to-perth/tabid/10874/newsid/75154/default.aspx

      • Morrissey 14.2.1

        Oh sure, they play the odd game there, but the NRL has no hope of establishing itself in Perth. There’s too much competition from Australian football (two professional teams, one of which played in the AFL grand final last month), rugby (Go the Force!) and soccer.

        • Te Reo Putake 14.2.1.1

          There’s only one Perth team in the AFL, Moz. In this year’s AFL Grand Final, Hawthorn defeated the team from the city of Fremantle.

          You really must try harder, try hard.

          • Morrissey 14.2.1.1.1

            There’s only one Perth team in the AFL, Moz. In this year’s AFL Grand Final, Hawthorn defeated the team from the city of Fremantle.

            Okay, in the same way Counties-Manukau (South Auckland) is not really in Auckland, Port Adelaide is not really in Adelaide, Brooklyn is not really in New York, Salford is not really in Manchester and Everton is not really in Liverpool. You’ve got it on a technicality, my friend. Props to you!

            You really must try harder, try hard.

            Good one! I see what you’ve done there….

  13. captain hook 15

    Was very disturbed at the level of debate over the Meridian sale.
    for all the dummies out there the price wan’t really the issue.
    That was then and now the lucky buyers can sit back and enjoy the revenue stream for the rest of their lives.
    nice for some.

    • Tat Loo 15.1

      That was then and now the lucky buyers can sit back and enjoy the revenue stream for the rest of their lives.

      Hmmmmm only if their remaining lives are just 3-6 years long…

  14. Draco T Bastard 16

    1764 – Benjamin Franklin is asked by officials of the Bank of England to explain the prosperity of the colonies in America. He replies,
    “That is simple. In the Colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay no one.”
    As a result of Franklin’s statement, the British Parliament hurriedly passed the Currency Act of 1764. This prohibited colonial officials from issuing their own money and ordered them to pay all future taxes in gold or silver coins.Referring to after this act was passed, Franklin would state the following in his autobiography, “In one year, the conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity ended, and a depression set in, to such an extent that the streets of the colonies were filled with the unemployed…

    David Cunliffe has already said that he won’t be changing the banking system and so there’s no chance that he will be making life better as it really is the change that needs to be done before all other changes that will bring about prosperity for all.

    • Tat Loo 16.1

      DTB

      What happened to the value of Colonial Scrip, and to the Colonial economy as a whole, when the foreign bankers demanded that remittances to them were made only in gold or silver?

      I’m guessing that Cunliffe is well aware of that piece of history too.

      – CV.

      • Draco T Bastard 16.1.1

        Damn, fucked up the link: Here:

        As to what happened: Colonial scrip was made illegal crashing the economy and creating poverty all so the banksters could have more.

        • Tat Loo (CV) 16.1.1.1

          Yes. And they could do it again. So it’s a pretty good idea to tread very carefully re: the international banking system.

          • Draco T Bastard 16.1.1.1.1

            Yes. And they could do it again.

            Only if we let them which is why I’d change the system via referenda. If they tried to change it back afterwards then we’d know that they were working against democracy.

            • Tat Loo (CV) 16.1.1.1.1.1

              That knowledge is fine, but it won’t provide the foreign currency needed to pay our bills for fuel, drugs and critical chemicals/parts/machinery/technology.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Don’t need foreign currency for that. We buy them with our currency and then they can buy what they want of the resources/products we have available. They could even sell it on the Forex to get whatever currency the want at whatever the exchange rate is or they can negotiate.

                See, no banks needed.

    • ghostrider888 16.2

      Day after Day (the show must go in) 😎

    • greywarbler 16.3

      DTB
      Unfortunately the ability to learn, understand and accept lessons from the past are not part of our highly evolved development. In a generation the right wing have been able to change NZs culture and carry out practices that go against the country’s and the people’s interests long term.

      In one generation the knowledge prevailing in the past one has largely gone. Though that knowledge was only partly considered, what was understood has not been passed on through formal education, parental discussion etc.

      So Cunliffe has to get in with the promise of finding better ways of running the country and providing the economy with a proper system that suits the people. It’s a big ask without offering something even bigger and more different. Something done long ago that is bound to raise the highest hostility and howling derision from NACTs that would destabilise his procession to PM and scare off the middle classes.

      They think they know a lot and that their putea saved up was a sign of their acumen, mental and physical, but many of them are mere children being handed foil wrapped chocolate and told its gold. They believe in the stability of NACTs and their wisdom, even with the evidence of failure before them. While it can be blamed on some externality NACT followers and most of the middle class as well, will cling onto their allegiance to the present economic system.

      • Draco T Bastard 16.3.1

        Yep, quite aware of that which is why I push for better education of these things but sometimes think that only the complete collapse of society will bring about the needed lessons.

        • Tat Loo (CV) 16.3.1.1

          Complete societal and economic collapse usually brings about far worse forms of rule, and far worse kinds of rulers. Best not go there.

      • Foreign Waka 16.3.2

        Yes, you are right and the ground work is being laid at the education level. Unfortunately, this is not a NZ issue. What makes it so difficult to counter any perceived notion by the generation that we will see govern NZ in 20 years time, is the complete lack of world historical knowledge. Not propaganda, knowledge. I look at people like Mr Bridges and I cringe. A men without a conscience, his only drive is the satisfaction of his vanity and zest for celebrity status. Somebody must have raised this child to become what he is today.

        • Tat Loo (CV) 16.3.2.1

          The neoliberals knew that in order for their project to succeed, they had to enforce a kind of nationwide (global?) political economic amnesia. You can even see it in the USA where the lessons of the New Deal have been thoroughly forgotten/ignored.

          And to dull down curiosity about both the past and the present.

          • Draco T Bastard 16.3.2.1.1

            You can even see it in the USA where the lessons of the New Deal have been thoroughly forgotten/ignored.

            Not forgotten or ignored but overwritten by lies.

  15. aerobubble 17

    We are lied to, instead of dealing with high home prices causing home affordability crisis,
    the government makes high home prices sound cool.

  16. dv 18

    Is this a worry? Seems like a very stupid solution

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/9329188/Arsenic-used-in-home-building-materials

    Kiwi homes are being wrapped with plywood containing an arsenic treatment banned in several overseas countries because of toxicity concerns

    Dr Meriel Watts, who has a PhD in pesticide risk assessment and policy, said CCA-treated timber products posed an “unacceptable risk for public health”, particularly for young children.

    “Basically wrapping homes in CCA-treated plywood is a very bad idea,” she told The Press.

    One senior figure in the Canterbury construction industry, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the sealant properties of some forms of the plywood created dangerously unhealthy homes, trapping toxins and moisture inside.

    “[Timber] workers have to handle it with gloves and full body suits, and we are wrapping our houses with it,” he said.

    “Why on earth are we using these products?”

    Workmate Alistair Young said he knew the timber products were “all full of a lot of s…”.

    “Cutting it all the time, that’s a problem. A lot of guys get headaches cutting it, so we’ve got masks and gloves but I don’t use them.”

  17. joe90 19

    Following minor surgery I had a shit of a time dealing with a staphylococcus infection so news like this is rather alarming.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/health-science-technology/hunting-the-nightmare-bacteria/dr-arjun-srinivasan-weve-reached-the-end-of-antibiotics-period/

    • Tat Loo (CV) 19.1

      No money in developing new antibiotics

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      That was inevitable. The short life bacteria would evolve faster than what either our own immune system could or the drugs that we produce.

  18. Morrissey 20

    CALLING LANTHANIDE! CALLING LANTHANIDE!
    We need the comfort of your calm and considered words

    http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/10/25-4

    Please calm our fears, Lanthanide. What comforting words does the Japanese Government have to say THIS time?

  19. FYI

    In my considered opinion, the 2013 Auckland Mayoral election, was phony as.

    In my considered opinion, those who really run the Auckland region, the (unelected) Committee for Auckland are actually very happy with Mayor Len Brown and Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse.

    But – to keep up appearances that this Auckland Mayoral election was ‘left’ vs ‘right’ – as opposed to the reality of the corporate minority vs the public majority, enter political ‘newby’ / ‘novice’ John Palino, who has never attended a single Council meeting in his life.

    Having the former President of the National Party, John Slater, as his ‘campaign manager'(?), helped to give the Palino camp the ‘right’ stamp of approval (as it were).

    But, in my considered opinion, John Palino was never expected or supposed to win the Auckland Mayoralty.

    Unfortunately, for those who REALLY run Auckland, with the very public revelations of the Len Brown ‘affair’ – things have now got quite ‘out of hand’ (as it were).

    So – how best to deal with this?

    Simple.

    Get an ‘inquiry’ / ‘investigation’ set up, which will slap Len Brown on the hand, censure him, do anything but require him to stand down?

    Look who is organising this ‘inquiry’:

    Doug McKay, CEO of Auckland Council ( a member of the Committee for Auckland), passes the inquiry to Ernst and Young (a member company of the Committee for Auckland).

    Who else is a member of the Committee for Auckland?

    Nigel Morrison, CEO of Sky City.

    (If you don’t believe me – check for yourselves http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz membership …)

    Where I think Len Brown has ‘crossed the line’, is in the alleged use of a Sky City hotel room (rooms), for his illicit sexual liaison(s), which, in my considered opinion, make him effectively ‘beholden’ and arguably potentially subject to blackmail.

    I note that on 27 June 2013, Len Brown argued in favour of the International Convention Centre (Sky City) Bill (deal), at the Auckland Council Governing Body Meeting.

    I also note that it appears that Auckland Council has failed to do any ‘due diligence’ on the increased risk of money-laundering at Sky City arising from this International Convention Centre (Sky City) Bill (deal).

    That is why, it is my intention on Tuesday 29 October 2013, to formally request the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) to conduct an investigation into these matters.

    High time for a New Zealand Independent Commission Against Corruption, and enforceable ‘Codes of Conduct’ for both local and central government elected representatives?

    I think so.

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation’ campaigner
    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

    • Lanthanide 21.1

      This comes across as a conspiracy theory.

      • tinfoilhat 21.1.1

        Yes but a pretty plausible one.

        Thanks Penny I’d love to see you on the council they wouldn’t know what hit them………… or as they used to say on dads army……

        ‘ they don’t like it up ’em ‘

    • ropata 21.2

      Why write a 10 word comment when you can publish a 1000 word essay?

      PB : shrill, boring, and slightly mental. Avoid

  20. PJ 22

    Just want to see my weekend gravatar…

  21. amirite 23

    Only 800+k mansions being built, no sign of affordable housing anywhere.
    So much for living it to the free market fairy.

  22. Tat Loo (CV) 24

    Would you like a Monsanto Round Up flavoured Milkshake?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/9310148/Tests-show-milk-clear-of-Roundup-used-for-silage

    AgResearch expert Trevor James says the herbicide, commonly known as Roundup, has no affect on animals.

    • Foreign Waka 24.1

      Well then, let him drink up then. Lets see whether he can put the money where the mouth is.

  23. Why have I got a grumpy face icon, and how do i change it.

    • Morrissey 25.1

      If you don’t like it, how about you just stay off this forum?

    • Tat Loo (CV) 25.2

      It’s a pain but you can use another email address as your login. A mod will need to approve your post the first time you use your new email.

      However, I’m under the impression that the system is going back to the old gravatars in a couple of days so you could just wait it out.

    • MrSmith 25.3

      Typical, image is everything a Brett.

    • lprent 25.4

      Because wordpress 3.7 had a wee bug to do with the usual identicon – it wasn’t displaying them, but was displaying an empty head (which is what it still shows at the backend).

      I flipped it to a different type of gravatar at the front end and that worked. After I solved how to set it correctly, I had a whim that said to leave it on the “new” ones for this weekend. sysop’s choice for people using default identicons 😈

      The best way to “fix” it is to upload one or more images to gravatar ( http://en.gravatar.com ) against your email “address”. From memory, the email address doesn’t even have to be valid for the second and subsequent ones on an account.

      The image you choose can be uploaded from anything. Most people just put a query into google, select image(s), save them to their hard disk and then upload them. Personally I use gimp ( http://www.gimp.org/ ) to make mine unique.

      The image will then show on most wordpress (and blogger? and others?) websites whenever you use that email “address”

      I shunt my image on all my social media including facebook etc

      BTW: I thought that the “grumpy face icon” suited you..

  24. karol 26

    An unemployed (or possibly about to be unemployed) used car salesman, auditioning for a role on the Shopping Channel. Selling a fish infectif, an upta debt infas chucked ya.

    Sorry. No call back.

    And I thought Shearer had poor delivery. Follow the punctuation, buddy. And don’t stop when the line on the cue card ends… read on to the next line without missing a beat.

    • Lanthanide 26.1

      Wow, that’s abysmal.

      He clearly is reading the text for the first time. So lazy!

      • Tat Loo (CV) 26.1.1

        Check out the left-to-right shuffling of his eyes as he reads the words. *Groan*.

      • Anne 26.1.2

        No, it’s not the first time Lanthanide. He’s been practising his elocution in front of a mirror. You can tell by the emphasis on some of the words. What a dick! I used to talk like that when I was a kid practising my poetry reading in front of a mirror. Fancied myself as being good at it… and I fancied myself.

    • Draco T Bastard 26.2

      Investing smart in infrastructure

      The ultrafast broadband project is the proof that privatisation of infrastructure doesn’t work. If we hadn’t privatised Telecom we wouldn’t have to be forking billions of taxpayer dollars to get Telecom to what needs to be done because it would have been done already.

      • TheContrarian 26.2.1

        We have been over this before Draco – it isn’t proof of anything outside of proof positive of what you think might have happened if what Draco thinks would have happened happened.

  25. Anne 27

    …what he has shown us over the last few years has exposed him as being ‘emotionally, spiritually and compassionately unintelligent.

    Good comments Vanessa. Of course that is an apt description of most right-wingers. That is why they are right-wingers. They have little to no empathy for people outside their own self serving circles. They are spiritually barren – especially the conservative rump church goers like Colin Craig. Their thinking processes are simplistic and almost philistine in nature. Here’s an example:

    was reading a profile of this Nat MP, Mark Mitchell – the one who leaked the Brown scandal to councillor, Penny Webster and who apparently has close ties to the police, defence force and our intelligence agencies. In his own words “I’m passionate about law and order. I just want to see the bad ones locked up”. That no doubt includes climatological scientists, so-called tree huggers and anyone who is associated with that subversive organisation called Greenpeace. And one of the most primeval of all of them is that monkey the Aussies have just elected as their prime minister. Despite the rapidly increasing size and frequency of the bush fires etc., he still scoffs at and denies the overwhelming evidence of Global Warming/Climate Change.

    These are the real bad ones. The ones who should be locked up and throw away their keys.

    [lprent: shunted to OpenMike as some rich moron thinks that they can read science and has therefore gone quite off topic… ]

    • rich the other 27.1

      Anne,
      Do you still seriously believe in global warming ??
      Fact , no temperature increase in the last 15 years , when is it going to start again, 5,15, 50 , 500, or 5million years ????????.
      Wake up , it’s a con which has become political not factual .
      Lucy is a real example of the delusional green brigade.
      You have got to hand it to green peace , they have her fooled and are happy to take advantage of her falling profile, with a bit of luck they will con her into making a protest Russia.
      Throw away the key.

      • lprent 27.1.1

        Always nice to meet rich idiots like you who don’t understand statistics… They have the generic name of “suckers” or “marks”.

      • Tat Loo (CV) 27.1.2

        NASA scientists say 2012 was the ninth warmest of any year since 1880, continuing a long-term trend of rising global temperatures. With the exception of 1998, the nine warmest years in the 132-year record all have occurred since 2000, with 2010 and 2005 ranking as the hottest years on record.

        Question for rich the other: are the years 2005 and 2010 (the hottest years on record according to NASA) within “the last 15 years”?

        Supplementary: do you even give a shit, if they are?

        http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-temps.html

        • rich the other 27.1.2.1

          Tat loo
          So what you are saying is the 2000 IPCC page report on this con is wrong , the 15 years of NO warming is their figure , the actual truth is 18yrs but we won’t quibble over 3yrs.
          This topic has become highly political because some governments around the world have been completely fooled and their reputations are at stake.
          Lucy might like to make a movie on the topic , perhaps the title should be [ The Greatest Con on Earth ] and may I suggest she asks Joyce for a SUBSIDY which would be funded from tax from workers pay packets.

          • lprent 27.1.2.1.1

            Have you looked at the summary figures for ocean warming?

            Actually – strike that. We know that you are merely repeating some other moron and haven’t bothered to read the report.

            Perhaps you could tell us what the IPCC found for heat storage in the oceans over the last 15 years? Possibly what the heat storage capacity of salt water is compared to seal level air? In fact demonstrate ANY ability to read and understand the IPCC report section one?

            You really are a wanker too incapable of doing your own work. You just echo the strokes for some other fool.

            silly puppet..

          • Tat Loo (CV) 27.1.2.1.2

            So what you are saying is the 2000 IPCC page report on this con is wrong , the 15 years of NO warming is their figure

            NASA does the business, my man. Remote sensing is what they do. One good thing about having an active superpower in the world. So let’s run the quote again- with just one exception, the 9 warmest years in the 132 year record have happened since 2000.

            Seems pretty definitive to me.

    • Rogue Trooper 27.2

      Beautiful prose Anne

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