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Open Mike 28/03/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 28th, 2018 - 163 comments
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163 comments on “Open Mike 28/03/2018”

  1. Ffloyd 1

    Would like to know more about rotting and dangerous hospitals that came to be like this under Nationals watch. Why am I having to put up with all this crap about Curran and Hirschfield? Listening to the Esp and Melissa Lee now. Tedious.Espiner beating it up like crazy.

    • Chris T 1.1

      If the govt weren’t making stupid mistakes continuously you might get your wish.

      • Keepcalmcarryon 1.1.1

        Yes, they should give the Nats labour and NZ Firsts questions too to ensure they spend 100 percent of their time explaining and losing.
        I fear this government is under delivering for the left and nowhere near cynical enough about the media. They are being eaten slowly.

        • cleangreen 1.1.1.1

          Yes keep calm, carry on;

          Labour so far are underachieving at being a “warm, caring, “inclusive” gentle, transparent government as jacinda promised us, as she fought the election by saying this at her town hall speech but we still await for this and achieve these promises.

          It appears the MP,s inside her caucus is letting her down as we saw happen with Donald Ttrump also but trump removed “ineffective politicians” and now surprisingly his approval rating in a poll today was at 42% and the report says this is a string signal he is being now accepted by the voters.

          Perhaps Jacinda needs to have a crisis meeting with her caucus and play back her first speech at Auckland’s town hall at the start of her election time and tell her ministers to listen to her speech every day before parliament and honour her promises we voted for?

      • dukeofurl 1.1.2

        New ministers in a new government always make these small basic mistakes.

        You could see even Bridges fluffing his responses to questions, making basic mistakes in his early days. As hes on a steep learning curve for his new job.

        I remember Joyces parting comments when asked recently about the ‘things that went wrong’- he was being truthfull when he said ‘Most you dont hear about’

    • Pat 1.2

      Its war without guns…and an unequal struggle at that…all governments are prone to errors.

      What are the differences between this and the previous admin that are concerning power?

      Nobody said democracy would be easy, in fact it would appear from disengagement levels that it is becoming too difficult for many but even so it remains the best of a range of poor options.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        Nobody said democracy would be easy, in fact it would appear from disengagement levels that it is becoming too difficult for many but even so it remains the best of a range of poor options.

        This assumes that we have a democracy rather than an elected dictatorship that resembles the oligarchy of the US.

        • Pat 1.2.1.1

          It assumes we have democracy insofar as it dosnt interfere with the pursuits of power

    • cleangreen 1.3

      A good thread subject you started Ffloyd.

  2. Gabby 2

    Cambo’s doing the hospital. Gyno gets the let’s not be accused of going easy on ourselves.

  3. cleangreen 3

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/353466/hirschfeld-resignation-there-are-serious-questions-here-bridges

    Radio New Zealand
    NEW ZEALAND
    27 Mar 2018
    Carol Hirschfeld resigns over meeting minister: ‘There are serious questions here’
    1:37 pm on 27 March 2018

    This was definitely a ‘parting attack’ by Steven joyce as he today says goodbye in parliament.

    The timing was staged here, and this flurry from the right wing news hub breakfast show host Duncan Garner just laid it on so heavy in today’s breakfast show to confirm he was part of the plan to hit back at Carol Hirschfeld and RNZ at the same time just to raise the ratings for TV3-newshub you can bet.

    The top man CEO of RNZ is a National plant and needs to be shoved under the bus as does the head of the board of RNZ Richard Griffin.

    • Hooch 3.1

      They should be replaced by Hirschfeld.

      Seriously, labour need to review all the appointments National made to boards, ministries etc as they have stacked them with sycophants who will try to bring down the government.

      • cleangreen 3.1.1

        Hootch

        Correctly said there national have sacked every corner of government organisations with National “sycophants who will try to bring down the government”

        Jacinda needs to do what David Langey did when he entered as a first time PM in 1984 as he went on a big hunt to remove all “impediments” when he went on “The great Qwango hunt” to remove biased groups and advisors/committees.

        Jacinda needs to show ‘leadership’ and use her Caucus to do this now.

        • Keepcalmcarryon 3.1.1.1

          Yes , make strong positive changes, go on the front foot, or sit back and get creasebound with no runs on the board until your innings is over. God I hate cricket.

        • SpaceMonkey 3.1.1.2

          If Ardern even tries, watch the right-wingers cry foul over the importance of an impartial public service. But I agree… she should and, I believe, she must otherwise it’s a death by a thousand cuts.

          The public service will play the coalition government with everything they’ve got. I’m already hearing word about information being withheld by senior civil servants from their Ministers – can’t verify it yet though.

          • cleangreen 3.1.1.2.1

            Yes SM.

            Steven Joyce using MBIE “employment rules’ was behind all the funding cuts to certain media platforms if they did not pull into line on ‘refraining from broadcasting negative issues of the National party – (we were tipped off )

            But if labour tried this the right wing would howl wouldn’t they now?

        • Michelle 3.1.1.3

          I would expect her caucus (Jacindas) is busy doing just that cleangreen but all this takes time. Firstly they need to do full reviews of everything as you cant trust the previous government.
          Some of those national sycophants you refer to will be protected for now with employment agreements and contracts. Some of these agreements will lock them in for years and some would have been purposely signed just before the election so it will take some time to get rid of these sycophants.

      • Sanctuary 3.1.2

        Correct. The idea of a non-politicised public service is dead and buried.

        It is long past the time that alongside their party list political parties published a list of senior government appointments where they will be replacing person X with person Y, similar to the way a whole list of Republicans give way to Democrats and vice versa in the USA.

        By examining such a list, by looking at who will be allowed to stay and who will be made to go and who will replace them, voters will be much better informed as to how radical an agenda a government actually wishes to enact when in power.

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.1.2.1

          yeah because the united states is functioning so well at a bureaucratic level

    • Sanctuary 3.2

      Look, the corporate media hate RNZ. The idea of a publically funded competitor doing real journalism and showing up their click bait bullshit drives them nuts and drives up their costs, because they have to employ journalists and do journalism to compete with RNZ. They are going to lay it on thick in this case to try and stop an extra 38 million going to public broadcasting.

      This is the extent of Curran’s f**king idiocy – she has politicised RNZ’s funding and she has given powerful enemies of the governments policies a stick with which to beat a policy they hate, and they won’t need to be asked twice. The MSM loud-mouths Hosking, Garner, all of them will bay like the pack hunting bullies they are and milk this for all it is worth.

      • Keepcalmcarryon 3.2.1

        Absolutely Sanctuary, a perfect summary.

      • AB 3.2.2

        Why did she feel she had to go behind Griffin’s back? She’s the Minister, just call him in for what would be the first in a series of ‘tough conversations’. Explain the vision for RNZ, then explain why she doesn’t believe he’s the person to deliver it. Then ask him what he plans to do to convince her that he can. Let him fluff around for a while, then say “I don’t think this is working Richard”.

        • cleangreen 3.2.2.1

          AB

          I agree but when we wrote to Clare Curran to discuss our public concerns with her CEO and staff including the chair, she wrote us saying the 1996 Broadcasting Act prevented her from getting involved in RNZ operations.

          That is where the problem is as National have been allowed to keep their act current and labour must change it now.

          Shall I place the letter from Clare curran we received on 15th February 2018 on this website now showing this anomaly ?

        • patricia bremner 3.2.2.2

          To have that kind of intestinal fortitude and leadership requires good chess moves.

          This minister is sadly reactive not proactive. Her use of a supporter to “Find the lay of the land” has backfired badly. She should have asked them all to submit a written plan going forward.

          Now she is fighting them alone. She’d better regroup quickly. Griffin is well named.

          All she has done is “put them on notice” by her clumsy moves, and removed a friend at court.

      • tracey 3.2.3

        100%

  4. John up North 4

    Things that have me thinking today.

    Mycoplasma Bovis is set to cost the taxpayer via compensation and the whole package to stop further spread of this disease — $60M and counting.
    Ok so how did this disease enter the country? With the Van Leeuwen dairy group being the 1st farms found infected, how/why were cattle still moved without testing? Why the initial secrecy as to which farms were infected so neighbors and other cattle buyers were not helping the spread? Why didn’t the National Govt/MPI hit this hard and prosecute transgressors hard?
    Can we trust all the farm owners to be honest about their losses? We know some farmers are cruel to their animals which can sometimes result in the death of the animal. So these could now be lumped into the cull figures and at $1000-$2000 per animal it would be very tempting to slide those other ear tags into the mix.

    #2
    The media bs beatup over Clare Curran and Carol Hirschfeld.

    Seems to be getting headline treatment and we even have opinion pieces front page from the likes of Brigitte Morten of all people……………… sigh!

    Meanwhile the whole saga of Finlayson V Kim Dotcom slides awaaaaay……

    Meanwhile the whole saga of rotting hospitals slides awaaaaay………..

    Meanwhile the whole saga of willful neglect of infrastructure by National slides awaaaay…………

    Labour needs to up their game in the whole PR battle, they’re currently getting a right shafting

  5. cleangreen 5

    So right John,

    We hear fuck all from MSM or even RNZ so they need to be an active investigative media as we used to have with “close-up, and other shows from the 2000-2005 time.

    #2
    The media bs beatup over Clare Curran and Carol Hirschfeld.

    Seems to be getting headline treatment and we even have opinion pieces front page from the likes of Brigitte Morten of all people……………… sigh!

    Meanwhile the whole saga of Finlayson V Kim Dotcom slides awaaaaay……

    Meanwhile the whole saga of rotting hospitals slides awaaaaay………..

    Meanwhile the whole saga of willful neglect of infrastructure by National slides awaaaay…………

    Labour needs to up their game in the whole PR battle, they’re currently getting a right shafting

    Reply
    John up North 4.2
    28 March 2018 at 9:30 am
    Hah!
    This one too!

    The whole sorry saga regarding the outing of the litany of lies told by the General and NZ Defense forces re the killing of civilians during Operation Burnham.

  6. David Mac 6

    The media are all over the Carol/Clare thing because they’re human. We all place emphasis on matters that are occurring in our own backyards.

    • cleangreen 6.1

      100% David mac.

      True if you have the choice of having a “willing media to cover your matters that are occurring in our own backyards.”

      As of today we on the east coast HB/Gisborne have been without a full time reporter on staff at RNZ to cover all our “matters that are occurring in our own backyards.”
      See our story on 9.3.1.3

  7. simbit 7

    Didn’t TEC parachute that dodgy VC into Lincn University’s perfect storm? [Trick comment…]

  8. Ffloyd 8

    Oh good grief. Now we have the drip who just keeps dripping. Hosking just jumped on the bus breathing righteous hell fire and brimstone. I must say hes a tedious little bore.

  9. Sanctuary 9

    The more I think about it, the more Clare Curran’s imbecility pisses me off.

    The wrong person – as in, the competent one with integrity – has resigned. The moron who jacked up the meeting and then clumsily tried to hide it then threw Hirschfield under the bus survives. Government just got a little bit stupidier. I hope Hirschfield gets the press officer job going on the ninth floor.

    Labour’s big plan for using RNZ as a counterweight to the knee-jerk right wing reaction of the corporate MSM is clearly being opposed by the right wing revanchists who oversee RNZ, and Curran’s complete idiocy as a minister has given round one to the reactionaries. I doubt it is fatal, Griffin is a goneburger in April anyway. But the political losses are much higher now.

    What an idiot Curran is.

    • dukeofurl 9.1

      How can a ‘competent one with integrity’ tell big fat lies about a meeting? Can you see the error that leads to your confusion on this point

      It was in a very public place no need for a cover up about how it was arranged and even saying it was agreed for a place and time is small cheese , maybe just a telling off.

      • weka 9.1.1

        Integrity isn’t being perfect. It’s also about what you do when you fuck up. This is a perfect side by side example.

      • Sanctuary 9.1.2

        Well, you’ve got a good point. Presumably Hirschfield was told by Curran she had her back.

        Trusting a politician like Curran is naive in the extreme.

        No one will trust Curran now. Her effectiveness as a minister is thus further diminished.

    • weka 9.2

      Yep. And I’m not even angry with CC, I’m looking at the Labour caucus and going wtf are you thinking?

      “I hope Hirschfield gets the press officer job going on the ninth floor.”

      Wouldn’t that be weird for her to get that job at this time all things considered?

    • Anne 9.3

      “I hope Hirschfield gets the press officer job going on the ninth floor.”

      In the circumstances it would be the least Jacinda Ardern could do for Carol Hirschfeld – if she wants it of course. No matter what the official story turns out to be, it’s Carol who has been unfairly up-ended on this one.

      • weka 9.3.1

        She lied for months to her bosses and this lead to them misleading parliament. It’s hard to see how Labour could employ her at this time given that, and given that the lie involved one of their own Ministers and she was working for a govt broadcaster at the time.

        I suspect she’s been shafted here, but we don’t know the full story. On the face of it, I can’t see how Labour could employ her with integrity. But then there’s not explaining why CC still has her Minister’s job.

        • Anne 9.3.1.1

          I suspect she’s been shafted here,…

          My suspicion too. I am sure Carol Hirschfeld would have told Clare Curran at some point that she was going to have to tread carefully with her bosses – or something along those lines. So, surely Clare Curran could have borne that in mind with her subsequent utterings. From what I’ve read she appears to have done the opposite.

        • dukeofurl 9.3.1.2

          Well we now know that Griffin ( The chair of RNZ board) txted Nationals Melissa Lee to to give advance Warning of Caroles resignation.

          Griffin should be sacked immediately ( yes he wasnt going to be reappointed in April) but you know ‘whats good for the Goose is good for the gander’

          • Anne 9.3.1.2.1

            I’m sure I read somewhere he actually rang her which in my view is worse. Lee claims she was surprised at the call but thought it was probably a courtesy call. I suspect it was more a politically motivated call.

            • SpaceMonkey 9.3.1.2.1.1

              This. Because his first call should have been to his Minister. He should be sacked for this alone.

            • Anne 9.3.1.2.1.2

              Here is the item:

              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12021562

              Griffin told the Herald he rang Lee at the same time the media statement was released as a matter of courtesy because she had asked a series of questions around the meeting.

              I would like to know who he advised inside the government, and whether he personally rang them – as a matter of courtesy.

            • veutoviper 9.3.1.2.1.3

              Here it is – Stuff this morning. Lee says halfway down that Griffin called her a few minutes before he announced Herschfeld’s resignation.

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102652206/melissa-lee-was-given-a-heads-up-about-carol-hirschfelds-resignation
              SNAP – but slightly different wordings.

              Griffin will not give a … whether he should or should not have called Melissa Lee – such niceties do not apply to Griffin in his mind. (He described employment law to me in those terms (niceties) many years ago.)

              I have now found this announcement by Amy Adams in 2016 which confirms Griffin’s appointment as Chair of the Board of RNZ Ltd was for two years from 1 May 2016, So – 30 April 2018 is the date.
              https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/appointments-radio-new-zealand-board

              Melissa Lee has a question to Curran at Q11 today – “MELISSA LEE to the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media: On how many occasions has she met with Carol Hirschfeld since becoming Minister?”

              However, I am pretty sure that Bridges asked the same question of the PM under Q2 – but was only half listening.

              • Anne

                Griffin will not give a … whether he should or should not have called Melissa Lee – such niceties do not apply to Griffin in his mind. (He described employment law to me in those terms (niceties) many years ago.)

                So he doesn’t give a [shit] about calling a member of the Opposition Nats and talking, but he fires Carol Hirschfeld for talking to the Minister.

                And don’t lets quibble about the white lies Carol told because I suspect there was a good reason she felt she couldn’t tell him the truth and it would have gone beyond any RNZ protocol. Silver tongued bosses can be tyrants behind the scene. I’ve had first hand experience.

                • veutoviper

                  I’ve had first hand experience with Griffin – and he is certainly silver tongued as well as silver haired, but also a total misogynist. I said more here yesterday – https://thestandard.org.nz/an-orwellian-minister-for-open-government/#comment-1466820 and also see the last sentence in this reply from Peterlepaysan –

                  An Orwellian Minister for Open Government

                  Griffin is a very slippery customer – no integrity, only expediency. And his days at RNZ are now very numbered – five weeks until 30 April. So he has nothing to lose – he will just throw every spanner he can find into the works.

                  As I said in 9.4 below, I fully understand why Herschfeld held off telling Griffin and Thompson that the meeting was pre-arranged – she knew it would be used against her by Griffin to get her out of RNZ. That is how he has operated in the past.

          • tracey 9.3.1.2.2

            So “no surprises ” policy still sees things directed to National not Labour

        • cleangreen 9.3.1.3

          Agreed weka.

          Clare Curran was out of the starting chogs after the election on her promise to begin a truly free of interference media platform RNZ+ commercial free of funding by corporates policy balanced media for public to use as their voice of the people.

          Since then She has not even made the RNZ available to our NGO which is a community advocacy group available to us for media press releases from our NGO on maters that HB/Gisborne communities are concerned about.

          Clare Curran has failed us in HB/Gisborne on the matter of our loss of our rail six years ago and since we all have made great strides to find a way to restore our rail service but we cant get our story told over RNZ so our public media is failing us.

          Last month Government’s Regional Development team came to Gisborne to release the policy and Shane jones said he has not heard from any party about a rail plan and RNZ prevented us placing our case before him so again we say;
          Clare Curran is failing us.

          Read the story again please as it needs to be told by the media not just in a local rag.

          http://gisborneherald.co.nz/opinion/3251978-135/shafted-by-eastland-group-lobbyists

          February 27, 2018
          gisborneherald.co.nz
          COLUMN – Shafted by Eastland Group lobbyists
          by Gillian Ward Published: February 27, 2018 2:14PM
          Gillian Ward is Chairwoman of the Gisborne Rail Action Group
          Re: Mixed Signals — Minister yet to receive strong case for Wairoa to Gisborne rail line, February 24 story.
          The Minister actually has received a strong business case for reinstating the rail line between Wairoa and Gisborne. In response to his request in November, a proposal was delivered to him two weeks ago. So, it is very disappointing that in the national launch of the Provincial Growth Fund on Friday neither restoration, nor a feasibility study, was announced for the Wairoa-Gisborne railway line.
          Rather than being let down because of the lack of a “strong case”, the Gisborne residents who have marched and signed a petition requesting that the government restore the rail line, and businesses who need rail to move their fresh produce to Napier’s export container port, have been shafted by a small handful of Gisborne business leaders.
          These few people who should be representing the best interests of the region are instead conflicted. They are focused solely on the expansion plans of Eastland Port, and planning for large profits, and they have the ear of the politicians.
          Rail freight of containers of fresh chilled produce destined for export from Napier’s container port will provide flexibility, be competitive, and offer security of freight transport with an additional land transport option for our isolated region. Huge container ships and multiple container cranes handle enormous stacks of containers at Napier Port’s deep-water port.
          Eastland Port on the other hand has a totally different situation, being located in a silty river mouth, which is carefully dredged to attain the depth required for log ships, while minimising disturbance of sensitive marine habitats. There is much less capacity to handle containers.
          Hon Shane Jones is aware of this conflict of interest, and although he has stated that, “There’s political will to back rail”, he would prefer that the community sort out our priorities, rather than the government imposing decisions.
          Mayor Foon has stated that Gisborne needs all the transport modes — roads, rail, coastal shipping and air transport. The residents and business community have indicated, with a march of 2000 people led by Mayor Foon along Grey Street to the Railway Station in April 2012, a petition of 10,480 signatures presented by Mayor Foon to Hon Anne Tolley at Parliament in May 2012, fundraising $11,000 for BERL Economics to review KiwiRail’s May 2012 analysis of the economics of the railway line, public meetings, letters to the Gisborne Herald editor, articles in The Gisborne Herald, presentations to the District Council, as well as business case analyses of the commercial viability of the line, that reopening the railway line would be well-supported by the community and businesses.
          It is a small city characteristic that influential leaders can be conflicted, wearing more than one “hat”, and the aspirations of the Gisborne community to restore our other land transport option have been well and truly undermined by a few people determined to scuttle these aspirations.
          Gisborne had to campaign hard to be included in the Government’s national rail-building effort in the late 1920s. It was a hard-won battle and a challenging line to complete, but the rail line was opened in 1942 amid jubilation from the Gisborne community.
          Now that we have the line, it is a gift from an earlier generation. The cost to repair the storm damage is minimal compared to the value of the asset. Imagine the cost to build a railway line through the Wharerata hills now!
          Please Minister Jones, hear the voice of the Gisborne community and filter out the noise from the Eastland Group lobbyists!

        • Michelle 9.3.1.4

          Jhonkey lied and bullsherted for 9 years so what is months of being mislead weka

          • NewsFlash 9.3.1.4.1

            Michelle

            The voice of reason and sensibility.

            Many here have extremely SHORT memories, the most important issues of the day haven’t even been mentioned, nada, yet this media driven nonsense of nothing is the highlight and even has a dedicated platform to discuss.

            How many cows will be put down, and why

            Finlayson’s debacle

            Russian spies?

            Oh, Aussies cheat, when they can.

            And the bid one, Why are our Hospitals in such a poor state and how are we going to fix them?

          • tracey 9.3.1.4.2

            Because John Key is not the yardstick for behaviour of our elected representatives. Some of want higher conduct than the gutter level he set it at.

        • tracey 9.3.1.5

          I cannot see anyone advising Ardern to appoint CH to her team now. Althought, it is Labour, they are proving to be very slow learners

          • weka 9.3.1.5.1

            I know, it’s like people can’t see the massive problem for integrity appointing her into that role now would be. smh.

    • veutoviper 9.4

      I was being tongue in cheek on that suggestion last night. !. I don’t think Herschfeld would actually want that job – a thankless one and all consuming and pretty below her experience, and a teenage daughter to consider.

      An Orwellian Minister for Open Government

      An Orwellian Minister for Open Government

      There is no way she could be appointed to that position now; or any similar position until a little time has passed to allow the dust to settle.

      I gather that Herschfeld was really loving her job with RNZ and was looking forward to what seems to be ahead for RNZ etc. Given this but with Griffin as Chair and Thompson as CEO, I do actually understand her trying to maintain her position.

      Re Curran, I believe that the PM is caught in a catch-22 situation at present, but that in the not too distant future we will see Curran out of that Ministerial role.

      A change of Minister at this time could be disastrous. In the next few weeks, the Budget proposals in respect of RNZ+ and the other changes proposed to NZ on Air etc must be completed, (eg by mid-April).- together with the overall Budget. It is absolutely the worst time of the Government year to make changes to Ministerial appointments.

      In that same time period decisions need to be made on the next Chair of the Board of RNZ. Hopefully this will not be to roll over Griffin, but to appoint someone else more aligned to the Labour Party campaign proposals on public service media.

      In fact, the one good thing to come out of this situation might be the fact that it has brought into focus the distance between Griffin’s views and those of the new government.

    • cleangreen 9.5

      Yes Sanctuary

      After the last two years in HB/Gisborne being left without a local reporter (by National Government design) after the election I asked Clare curran to sack Paul Thompson over this and she refused.

      I received a letter from Clare Curran that did not impress me.

      Beaded git challenged me as to why I was so negative.4.1.1

      I am tempted to place the letter on this social media site but will refrain for now but will say Clare Curran made great efforts to give a “legal interpretation as to why she cannot “influence the public broadcaster ” due to the 1996 RNZ broadcasting Act??????

      Well Ms Curran said effectively that this toxic Act for not permitting any hands on by a minister of Broadcasting was set-up by the last round during the national Government in the 1990’s so why did labour never ever make this RNZ a more ‘independent media then??????

      Now we still have National Party selected people like the CEO of RNZ Paul Thompson who is a National plant and needs to be shoved under the bus along with his partner RNZ Chair Richard Griffin and get some unbiased balanced minds to run the public media like Carol Hirschfeld is or Kim Kim is?

      As a ‘old white man’ I am starting to believe with Julie Anne Genter over getting rid of the old dead wood.

      • Bearded Git 9.5.1

        @cleangreen

        I’ve never been impressed with Curran. Ardern is probably keen to keep her in place because of the Dunedin connection and as a woman minister.

        Agree totally about Griffin and Thompson. These guys are probably on cast iron contracts. It takes time to change these things.

        It is obvious the Right’s strategy is to make out that the Lab/Gr/Nzf coalition is incompetent. Granny Herald has its orders and is following them assiduously. Don’t buy into this.

        • cleangreen 9.5.1.1

          Beared git,

          Thanks for the understanding here as we have been shafted by these national Party planted Chair/CEO guys and it is up to Clare Curren to finally play tough with them or give the job to who ever will carry the peoples wishes for a free fair coverage of our local issues as we are frozon out of RNZ as of now and this is wrong.

    • OncewasTim 9.6

      Me too. I’m prepared to accept she may have had good intent, but the naivety just astounds me. Especially when she could have recalled the very tricks gNats used in order to stack the deck in the PS.
      Probably half the Thordon bubble, most of MoBIE and other snr PS would have been showing off their ‘threads’ at the time.
      Even worse if she thought this would be the perfect place for ‘a chance encounter’.
      If she didn’t understand the gNats can’t stand CH (let alone her husband) and will seize ANY opprtunity (no matter how hypocrotical), I don’t think by now she ever will.
      Over on TDB btw, Frank McSkasey puts in in a bit of perspective, but it’s a stretch if you think any of that will make a diff.
      JACINDA (as someone else has suggested) needs to have a bit of a crisis meeting (in trendy language – a ‘war room’), and come up with something that is bold in each of the portfolios. RNZ+ doesn’t need to die in fact it could be the opportunity to go for something even better.
      Similarly on matters such as the promises made re HCNZ that have been rolled back a little.
      Similarly on matters such as the business of Immigration (so far, both I L-G and Chris FF are prepared to rely on the advice of ‘their officials – i.e. those having a vested interest in preserving a status quo) EVEN THOUGH no doubt, some of them are nice blokes
      Similarly resolving the issue of worker exploitation and slavery (the manager of the Labour Indpectorate perfectly prepared to tell us all there are ‘sufficient’ numbers of Inspectors JUST BEFORE the last election.
      Similarly ……… (health)
      Similarly ……… (education)
      Similarly ……… (infrastructure and NZTA’S wisdom)

      AND no doubt other little gems of wisdom. I can well remember (for example) when some sage did away with a division called ‘treaty compliance’ in order to be more fishint n fektiv, then another sage who was part of Tau Henae’s Maori Dev Commisions who simply ( having access to a Minstry’s servers) simply went on to reword and recycle existing advice.
      Btw….that sage went on to deprive prisoner’s right to vote.

      I mean FFS…..EVEN Winnie’s bro (one of them at least), understood the magnitude of the problem.

      I kind of despair really.
      Jacinda: it really IS time to come up with something bold. These little tiny weeny steps and mis-steps are not going to cut it.
      I realise that pholossphically you’re not into nastiness and you are into principle and being ‘nice’
      BUT it really is time to understand (get yourself some learnings) the magnitude, intent, and volume of your opposition

  10. Sanctuary 10

    “… I’m looking at the Labour caucus and going wtf are you thinking..?”

    Curran has thus far operated with the reflexive secrecy of the incompetent. Perhaps she didn’t tell them.

    • JohnSelway 10.1

      I think Curran is just way out of her depth

      • JanM 10.1.1

        I think the biggest problem is that the left do not really understand the lengths that the right will go to to hang on to their power – they suffer from the delusion that most people are decent, really.
        20 years ago I was running a small building company – we got taken to the cleaners by developers and lost everything – home included. They used more dirty tricks than I could have believed possible a human could stoop to and in the end we just had to walk away. I tried to explain to my friends how it had happened and just got blank looks – no-one else I knew (apart from people in the building industry, many of whom had suffered similar treatment) could credit that behaviour that low could operate successfully in what they thought of as a civilised society. I just gave up trying to explain.
        I think this attitude is still prevalent on the left, despite 30 years of neoliberalism providing plenty of evidence to the contrary. They persist in seeing many of the worst operators as mistaken but fundamentally decent, somewhere in there. Wrong!!!!

        • JohnSelway 10.1.1.1

          Sorry to hear all that. Must have sucked.

          • JanM 10.1.1.1.1

            Well of course it did, but my real point was the naivety most of us have about the intentions and lack of ethics shown by the greedy and power hungry who will stop at nothing to get what they want. This government is being hit with a barrage of ghastliness now, and I’m not sure all (including Curran) have a real understanding of what’s coming at them

            • patricia bremner 10.1.1.1.1.1

              Yes JanM Many can’t accept the awful attitudes from seemingly nice people.

              They DO NOT share our values. They DO NOT think as we do.

              Their over riding mantra is to be “on top” “win” “do well” “Be the best” “get on” anything else is a anethema to them.

              They don’t want others to co-operate…. that is communism don’t you know.

        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.2

          I think this attitude is still prevalent on the left, despite 30 years of neoliberalism providing plenty of evidence to the contrary. They persist in seeing many of the worst operators as mistaken but fundamentally decent, somewhere in there. Wrong!!!!

          QFT

      • Michelle 10.1.2

        That is what many said about jhonkey and he lasted 3 term bullsheritng and lying his way out of everything and then finally he realised I’m one of the most hated men in new Zealand I better leave. Hooray!

  11. alwyn 11

    I watched the TV3 late news last night.
    They had a piece on the protesters at an Oil and Gas conference in Wellington.
    The protesters were gaily piling up large heaps of material in order to block up all the emergency exit doors. That is how the TV announcer described it anyway.
    About five minutes later we had a story about the fire at a shopping centre in Russia where at least 64 people were killed. They were unable to escape because the emergency exits were blocked.
    I hope the New Zealand Police are collecting all the TV footage this morning so that they can identify and charge all those who were protesting at the conference and who were deliberately putting several hundred people’s lives in danger by blocking the doors. That is a very serious offence in my view and deserves a great deal more of a punishment than just a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket.
    Any lawyer care to say what is the most serious offence they could be charged with and what a likely sentence might be? I presume that charges like wilfully endangering peoples lives exist?
    Protesting is of course acceptable. What these protesters were doing is not.

    • weka 11.1

      Did the protest organisers have a plan in the event of fire or earthquake?

      • indiana 11.1.1

        Its not the responsibility of the protesters to have a plan, its the building owners and the occupants responsibility.

        • weka 11.1.1.1

          I haven’t seen the footage. One would assume that the building owners did have normal fire safety plans. If the protestors were doing something dangerous that’s not ok, but I’m not going to assume alwyn is telling the truth on this. It’s possible that the protest organisers did have a strategy that included not putting people at risk if there was a fire.

          • alwyn 11.1.1.1.1

            Have a look, and a listen, to this at about 1m 20s
            http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/03/three-arrested-at-protest-outside-oil-and-gas-conference.html
            According to the announcer there were about 500 people in the building and they are “blocking fire exits”.
            Of course you probably won’t believe it because it makes your friends look bad.

            • weka 11.1.1.1.1.1

              They’re not my friends (do you really have to be such a dick?). I did watch it and I can’t tell if that is a fire exit or not. If it is, it was a stupid thing to do (as I have already said).

              • alwyn

                Oh. Not your friends? Fitzsimmons was in the crowd on one of the TV clips of the demo. and a friend told me he saw two of the current Green MPs there. I thought that was your preferred party.
                I withdraw and apologise for trampling on you reputation for probity by linking you to that lot.

                • adam

                  Oh do grow up. You lied and got caught alwyn. Face the facts your spin is a lie to not hold the oil and gas industry to account.

                  Your fake pathos was cringe worthy, and the continued lies in the face of evidence, are just pathetic.

                  • alwyn

                    What have I lied about adam?
                    Evidence please you silly little boy.

                    • adam

                      You lied about the exit, and you lied about what the protesters did.

                      You are trying to start a flame war – you sniveling little weasel child.

                    • alwyn

                      What lie did I tell about the exit?
                      If you are going to make such ridiculous accusations please be specific. Otherwise I can only assume you fit your own description of being a “sniveling little weasel child”
                      I am not trying to start a flame war. I am simply pointing out that you are making wild accusations with no evidence ever being produced to back them up.

    • adam 11.2

      Oh do grow up alwyn, your it’s ok to protest, then smug fake shrill is tiresome.

      No one was hurt, except you. You got offended once again that your worldview is actually utter crap. So you make shit up to justify getting in a huffy.

      My guess is you will take this as offencive, and well quite simply, it is. Your suppose to be offended. I get offended every time you spin lies to make yourself feel better.

      • Chris T 11.2.1

        I saw it as well

        Was pretty pathetically stupid of the protestors

        There is a line that shouldn’t be crossed even if you are trying to make a point

        Blocking emergency doors sits on the other side of it

      • Monty 11.2.2

        Hey Adam.

        I havent seen the footage, they have every right to protest but if they were blocking emergency exits that is incredibly dumb.

        It doesn’t matter that no incident happened but they put people at potential risk by doing it.

        Emergency exits are there for a reason.

        Your issue is with Alwyn but if they did block emergency exits then that is wrong. Had something happened and I am sure a legal person here can answer what would the charge be.

        • weka 11.2.2.1

          I just watched the footage. It’s obviously a back door. Whether its an emergency exit as TV3 claim, I can’t tell. Don’t emergency exits have signs saying that is what they are and to not block them? If it is an emergency exit, I agree it was stupid.

          http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/03/three-arrested-at-protest-outside-oil-and-gas-conference.html

          • weka 11.2.2.1.1

            And let’s not forget this is a conference that is either in denial of CC or doesn’t care. That’s not theoretic deaths from a potential accident, that’s actual deaths we are responsible for.

            • Monty 11.2.2.1.1.1

              Not denying that fossil fuels well should be that fossils and will hopefully be phased out sooner rather than latter.

              They have the right to protest but putting people at risk is what the media will focus on and the message behind the protest will get lost.

              • weka

                I agree. I hope TV3 weren’t telling porkies.

                • McFlock

                  They were. It’s not a fire exit.

                  My justification for saying that is that you can go to google maps, search for “TSB Arena wellington”, click on “satellite” view instead of map, and zoom in until it goes to Streetview. You can actually see the door they were blocking on the south side of the building. No “fire exit” notices at all.

                  It even has empty pallets stacked beside it, lol.

                  • weka

                    Nice work McFlock!

                  • alwyn

                    I hope your photo’s were more up to date than what I just had a look at. The date of the photos was given as being just over 3 years ago when I used your method. Things have been known to change after that long
                    I certainly hope they clean up their rubbish a little more often than that. What date do you get on your Streetview pictures?
                    Actually I shall be down there on Saturday. I might try and find the spot.

                    • McFlock

                      Feel free to photograph the signs they put up when they changed evacuation routes in the last three years then.

                  • adam

                    Great work McFlock.

          • McFlock 11.2.2.1.2

            You can see the fire exit signs on the doors they were banging on, but the camera shot is too low to see if the door they were blocking had a similar sign (the signs on the doors were about half a foot above head height).

            I’m not aware of too many conference venues that have single-width external-handled doors right next to a loading bay roller door as fire exits for auditoriums, though. Dicks found empty pallets next to the loading bay around the back, blocked a service door. Might or might not have been an official fire exit for kitchen staff – camera shot was too low to tell.

        • cleangreen 11.2.2.2

          100% Monty.
          I recall the new police minister Nash saying “the NZ Police will now be a softer gentler police force than before” Really???? fooled me.

          • rasputin 11.2.2.2.1

            Yep, if you want an example of Stuart Nash’s mind set then this is an example.
            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11820250
            Then again he and seven other Labour party MP’s also joined the block voting by NZ First and National to prevent a first reading of the Greens bill for cannabis reform, but hey published advocacy for corrections department inmates having no rights and inciting scalping must be a new low for a politician who now is the minister of police. Shame on him.

      • alwyn 11.2.3

        “No one was hurt, except you”.
        I wasn’t there, so it wasn’t likely that I would be hurt anyway.
        You have an interesting viewpoint though. Nobody was hurt so it’s all right.
        Do you think it would work if I was to drive at 180 kph on the Motorway out of Wellington? When they post me the speeding ticket I can say that I didn’t actually have an accident so they should just drop the whole thing.
        Do you think they will agree and nothing further will happen?
        Like hell they will.

        In the meantime why don’t you just lie down and have a little nap. You’ll no doubt feel ever so much better afterward.
        Alternatively you don’t really have to read what I say. It isn’t compulsory you know and if it plays hell with your digestion you really shouldn’t bother.
        I won’t be hurt by your ignoring my pearls of wisdom. After all I don’t really want to cast those pearls before swine.

        • DoublePlusGood 11.2.3.1

          Holy Pearl-Clutching False Equivalence, Batman!

          It was a protest. It’s supposed to be disruptive and force a closure of the event, not just ask nicely if the people could just please have their conference somewhere else.

          • In Vino 11.2.3.1.1

            Nice one. But don’t expect self-righteous old alwyn to acknowledge anything.

          • alwyn 11.2.3.1.2

            “It’s supposed to be disruptive and force a closure of the event”.
            Of course it is. But do you really consider it to be acceptable to risk killing a few hundred people if things go wrong?
            If that is OK perhaps they should have just set fire to the building. That would certainly have the effect you desire wouldn’t it?
            As it is the people wouldn’t have even known that you might have put their lives at risk. Still, you don’t really appear to care.

            • adam 11.2.3.1.2.1

              Stop lying.

              Seriously are you trying to start a flame war?

              Nothing of importance was blocked. You really need to get over this continued lying alwyn, it’s not good for you.

              • alwyn

                “Nothing of importance was blocked”.
                And just how do you determine that?
                Are you really saying that TV3 were lying when they said Emergency exits were being blocked?
                Or are you the one that is lying?

    • Brigid 11.3

      Considering the Police were between the protesters and the exits, do you hope said Policemen/women are also identified and charged with blocking the exits?

      Please don’t pretend you care about the 64 or so people killed in the Siberian shopping centre fire.

    • tracey 11.4

      As serious as an Attorney General effectively laughing at a citizens rights?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.5

      It isn’t a fire exit. Tv3 duped you as easily as the National Party does.

      • alwyn 11.5.1

        “It isn’t a fire exit”
        How did you determine that? It certainly seems to be such a certain viewpoint, even if it is somewhat hard to see why TV3 should deliberately get it wrong?
        I was thinking of going down to the waterfront to see on Saturday but if you have already done that I won’t have to bother.

        • adam 11.5.1.1

          Read McFlocks answer up above. And if you can’t actually take the time to read what other people have said on somthing you post, then you really need to take the time to look at yourself and how you operate.

          • alwyn 11.5.1.1.1

            I did read it adam.
            And I tried to look at Google maps to see for myself.
            And I also replied to McFlock asking about what he saw.
            If you look you will see it.

            You see, and you would understand this if you had bothered to “actually take the time to read what other people have said”, that the photos I found were just over 3 years old.
            Now, given that you seem only to happy to pontificate on the subject how do I find up to date images?
            After all, if I thought that nothing changed in 3 years I would think that Russel Norman and Meteria Turei were still the leaders of the New Zealand Green Party.
            Now, please tell me. How do I get reasonably current photos on Google?

            • adam 11.5.1.1.1.1

              So your telling me the building plan has changed in 3 years. OK got proof?

              My guess is like you just did you will reach for more spin, let’s call spin what it is, lying. So more lies from you, you really have to stop buddy.

              • joe90

                It has.

                Work plan

                • Reclad the north, south and east elevations. The new cladding and paint will match the already re-painted west elevation of the TSB Bank Arena and Shed 6.
                • Remove the amphitheatre at the building’s south end to eliminate leaks and to revitalise this area which will link with the new Children’s Playground being built in Frank Kitts Park.
                • Remove all stair access to the uppermost deck areas on the south elevation improving safety in this area.
                • Remove tiles and leaky membrane on the balcony walkway and deck. They will be replaced with a new membrane and suspended tile system.
                • Replace the main egress stairs on the south elevation for improved water proofing details and non-slip surface.

                The western and north sides of the TSB Bank Arena, home to Capital E and commercial tenants, do not need works done on the exterior façades.

                https://wellington.govt.nz/your-council/projects/tsb-bank-arena-recladding-of-exterior

              • alwyn

                I have no idea whether the building is the same as it was then. Why don’t you provide proof that it hasn’t?
                I don’t really think that 3 year old photos would be particularly good evidence though. I assume McFlock had access to more recent ones. Otherwise I’m sure he would have told us about the age of the information in the photo. I would like to know how he gets more recent data than I could manage.
                I’m sure he will enlighten me. He really is a reasonable fellow on these matters.

                • joe90

                  You’re trolling.

                  The multiple exits, they double as fire escapes, are used to disgorge a full house of 4k en masse for the after match dash into to Courtenay Place, Cuba St, etc.

                  The PEPANZ conference has about 500 attendees so it’s not as though a kerfuffle at the exits posed any risk to life and limb.

                  • alwyn

                    You appear to be the true rarity in this discussion. You actually know something about the topic.
                    A couple of very brief questions then.

                    Were the doors (or door) that TV3 showed having material being piled against emergency exits?
                    Was TV3 correct or making it up when they described them as Emergency exits?
                    Are they marked as being such doors?

                    The fact that everyone can normally get out through the main exits isn’t really the point is it? After all emergency exits are only meant to be used if the main ones are impassable for some reason and the last thing you want is for people to head toward such doors and then can’t get through them.
                    If they weren’t marked as such then TV3 were obviously wrong to describe them as being for emergency egress. If they were intended for such use they should never be blocked, regardless of how few people were actually in the room.

                    • McFlock

                      Also, there’s a longer shot in the three news piece that shows the ground outside the door being blocked. No paint indicating “keep clear”, as I’ve seen with other fire exits next to parking areas or places where goods are routinely stacked.

                      As you point out, there is a possibility that sometime in the last three years or whatever the museum identified a deficiency in their emergency signage and put a sign up that was just out of the 3news shot. Until you or some other Wellingtonian pops down to check, it does seem that if it is indeed a fire exit then there was nothing to indicate that to the people outside. Who were being dicks, yes, but possibly not the calibre of dicks that would serve tory purposes.

                    • adam

                      You made shit up alwyn and part of that was to accuse people, some of who have spent 40+ years activism promoting the rights and dignity of human beings. You accuse them of trying to kill people by blocking doors.

                      It’s a disgusting lie, manufactured to support you selfish world view. I hope you get that, but you probably keep whining like the Tory *&^% tard that you are.

        • Keepcalmcarryon 11.5.1.2

          Are you the fire monitor alwyn?

  12. rasputin 12

    It seems to me that Helen Clark is setting herself up as a self appointed mentor to Jacinda Ardern. To quote from http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12021261 “Jacinda was let down. She should have been told. Immediately, actually. And then events would have taken a different course,” Clark said.

    “And I cannot understand why she was not told. Unbelievable.”

    Asked what she would have done if she had not been told, the former prime minister said: “If you get out the book and ask ‘what would Helen have done?’ … draw your own conclusions.”
    Of course Helen has a wide range of policy options to offer, from Rogernomics to regarding the SAS as her private secret army hired out to the Americans to please them then giving refuge to queue jumping doubtful genuine refugees boat people from the Tampa to please the United Nations, all part of her resume for the job she wanted. Maybe she is just looking for another job, an ambassadors position perhaps.

  13. cleangreen 13

    Weka

    I am now realising the memory of when National cried foul back some several years ago when they ordered the head of a maori TV network resign as he was found to be a labour Party member, so do you recall that hypocrisy?

    Former broadcaster Shane Taurima

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11836352

    Here we see national party ‘parachuted in’ heading RNZ now so we are truly fucked if national did this systematically by “installing their puppets all over government agencies now left to trip up labour every day?

    • alwyn 13.1

      Taurima wasn’t the head of a Maori TV network.
      He was responsible for the production of Maori and Pacific Island programs at TVNZ. He was also a front man on Q&A.
      He wasn’t forced to resign because he was a Labour Party member.
      His problem was that he held Labour Party meetings and used TVNZ resources on TVNZ premises. That is an absolute no-no as TVNZ are required to be politically neutral. It was also TVNZ management, not the Government who told him he had to go. The then Government, correctly, kept well clear.

      • cleangreen 13.1.1

        Correct he was ‘Presenter’
        Thanks for the correction Alwtyn.

        Now go get some national trolls please.

      • NewsFlash 13.1.2

        alwyn

        ” TVNZ are required to be politically neutral”

        So how did Hoskings manage to stay there for years then, not what anyone would refer to as Neutral, or are you lying again

        • tracey 13.1.2.1

          Touche

        • alwyn 13.1.2.2

          I suggest you read this which is a Law Firms interpretation of the rules for Public Servants in Election Year.
          It shouldn’t take you more than a couple of days to get through it. I assume you have a friend who can tell you what the big words with more than two syllables mean.
          https://minterellison.co.nz/our-view/dos-and-donts-for-public-servants-in-election-year
          Friend of Weka’s are you? She throws lying around with gay abandon too. Never does explain where it was supposed to have happened of course because I can, and do, demonstrate that it isn’t true.
          However perhaps you have some reason for your drivel. What is it?

        • Tamati Tautuhi 13.1.2.3

          Mike Hoskings is not a member of the National Party therefore he is politically neutral ?

  14. Michelle 14

    It doesn’t matter what Taurima was, the point is there is too many national sycophants in government jobs and others hierarchal positions why do you think it is so hard to make traction.

    • NewsFlash 14.1

      Still making the sounds of REASON, keep up the good work, you deserve a chocolate fish.

      This is not sarcasm.

  15. ianmac 15

    Interesting. Winston asked a question,(ruled out of order) which was it right that the Leader of the Opposition described himself as a Crown Prosecutor when he does not have such a Certificate ?
    Naughty Simon.

    • veutoviper 15.1

      A lovely shot across Bridges’ bow. Nice one. I am sure it will be brought up again in the near future. LOL.

    • tracey 15.2

      Perhaps his certificate is with the 10 bridges he lost

  16. ianmac 16

    Russian Spies: Peters Foreign Affairs Minister

    “I am advised by the NZ SIS, and so has the Prime Minister been, that there is no individual here in New Zealand that fits the profile of those being expelled by other countries and that is people within the embassies in other countries. If there were, we would have taken action a long time before Salisbury.”

    Peters said New Zealand’s Five Eyes security partners were consulted.

    Opposition and Media condemn the action taken by the Government yet if Australia could find only two, it is no wonder that “”People in the Five Eyes have consulted with us on our decision, understand our decision, and did so before the decision was made.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12021937

  17. mac1 17

    Watching the General Debate in Parliament, a National speaker criticised the Labour PM for not expelling Russians.

    Seated next to her was former defence minister, Mark Mitchell.

    He was reported in Newshub, “Former defence minister Mark Mitchell told media he had never been made aware of any Russian spies here.”

    First, do they not see how easily they are seen to be so two-faced?

    Secondly, why was this enormous hypocritical two-facedness not hammered by a government speaker.

    Shane Jones was next up and in his self-absorbed grandiloquence, missed the opportunity.

    The problem partly is, as the Speaker warned, too many people reading their speeches and not actually debating.

  18. Ad 18

    After the Prime Minister – citing MFAT advice yesterday – swore to the world that there were no Russian operatives in New Zealand, Winston Peters – using the far more appropriate SIS intelligence, just flatly contradicts her.

    There is Russian intelligence activity in New Zealand, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has confirmed.

    In answer to a question in Parliament today, Peters said: “The NZ SIS advise us it is aware of Russian intelligence activity in New Zealand and where it is seen, appropriate action is taken.

    “I am advised by the NZ SIS, and so has the Prime Minister been, that there is no individual here in New Zealand that fits the profile of those being expelled by other countries and that is people within the embassies in other countries. If there were, we would have taken action a long time before Salisbury.”

    Absurd hair-splitting.

    Where the Fuck is DPMC coordinating intelligence and Ministerial briefings?

    There is no walking this back. This is a briefing diasster that makes Ardern look like a total naive idiot to the world: The PM looks SparklePony, Minister FOreign Affairs looks like Realo, public service look like complete dorks.

    Jesus Prime Minister start rolling out some pre-budget Good News. You look like a fucking idiot.

    • patricia bremner 18.1

      But Bill English was OK with his Chinese spy trained Chinese MP?

      You bloody crack me up!!! LOL

    • Baba Yaga 18.2

      Hooten sums up the current cluster**k of a government well at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12022002.

      And it’s going to get worse.

    • Tamati Tautuhi 18.3

      Lipstick on a pig ?

    • veutoviper 18.4

      No, Ad. It is not “Absurb hair-splitting”. I don’t want to call you an idiot, but calm down.

      The agreed approach to expelling Russian intelligence operatives is in respect of only one category of these – “undeclared intelligence staff (or agents)”.

      Andrew Geddis on the Pundit Blog has done the best job I have ever seen of explaining this category of intelligence operatives. Here is the link and an excerpt:
      (Sorry for the long quote but it is necessary to give the whole explanation)

      https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/my-spy-boy-told-your-spy-boy-im-gonna-set-you-flag-on-fi-yo

      And so the action that obviously was agreed behind the scenes was to kick out the “undeclared intelligence agents” that each country has identified as working out of its various Russian diplomatic posts. Exactly what is meant by an “undeclared intelligence agent” is then very important, as it is the key to why NZ acted (or, didn’t act) as it did.

      An undeclared intelligence agent is not an ordinary diplomat who gathers gossip, monitors news media and attends cocktail functions in order to report to their government at home what is happening in NZ. All diplomats do this – our embassy staff overseas just as much as Russian embassy staff here. So “collecting information for your government” does not make someone an undeclared intelligence agent.

      Instead, an undeclared intelligence agent is a member of a country’s secret service who pretends to be a diplomat in order to actually undertake covert operations in the country to which they are posted. They are really spies who are pretending to be diplomats so as to get the benefits of diplomatic immunity should they get caught spying.

      Because these two things are not the same, they are not viewed the same in diplomatic interactions. A country kicking out a diplomat because they actually are an undeclared intelligence agent is a lesser deal than is kicking out a diplomat proper, because the “diplomat’s” country knows that they’ve basically been rumbled misusing their diplomatic privileges.

      So, that’s the level of response that the UK’s various friends collectively decided was warranted – not kicking out “real” diplomats (which is a major step) but kicking out spies-in-diplomats-clothing (which is a lesser step). Which then is a problem for New Zealand.

      Because it appears that we don’t have any Russian undeclared intelligence agents on hand to kick out. This claim has, I know, been met with ridicule by many. I mean, it’s Russia! We all know they spy all the time on everyone!! And New Zealand is so very, very important that they must spy on us, too!!! Please? We need the validation … .

      Except – maybe there just aren’t any down here at the bottom of the world. And even if there is some undeclared intelligence agent kicking about in the Russian embassy, our SIS doesn’t know who it is. Nor do our overseas intelligence partners, apparently, because we asked them and they couldn’t finger anyone either.

      I know that we have had Russian undeclared intelligence agents as defined above on occasions in the past and recall at least one instance when they have been expelled very publicly. I also know that there are times when it is in fact ‘useful’ to leave them in place in some instances. For example, to be able to expel them en masse as in the current situation to send a message.

      The PM was pretty confused/confusing in her initial language, but she is probably on a steep learning curve. Peters obviously understands the situation with his longer experience – hence his explanation in the House yesterday under Question 8.

      Video https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=199069

      Hansard https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20180328_20180328_08

      I hope that helps but I also suggest that you read the whole Geddis article to put the above into context.

      • veutoviper 18.4.1

        Note – was editing the para re Question 8 in the House near the end of the above but then ran out of time. Was editing this to say that Peters’ explanations were only slightly clearer and got lost in the ‘noise’ around the whole issue evident throughout this question. A minute or so in Peters seeks to clarify that expulsions were only being applied to ‘undeclared’ agents; and then later this:

        Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Far too late—we’ve been doing that from day one. But we want to make it very clear that what we’ve been challenged by, in terms of the Opposition and the media, is often demonstrably false. For example, 40 percent of the European Union, like New Zealand, have made no expulsions. But no, no—we hear from the media that the European Union has does this and so has everybody else. Well, in the end, Australia found two. We’re a much smaller country, and we haven’t found any yet inside the embassy in the way that, abroad, they did.

  19. joe90 19

    Next week, Queen Elsa of Arendelle, you’re hired!.
    /

    Former Disney Channel star Caroline Sunshine joins the White House press team https://t.co/LAc9RR4jA0 pic.twitter.com/J6TcyQHaWu— CNN Politics (@CNNPolitics) March 27, 2018

  20. Ffloyd 20

    Blimey! Hooton’s putting the boot in. Touting a one term government under Ardern. What’s his problem? Apart from breathing. Is he not worried at all about the Health Scandal left behind Si Bridges Bestie Cut Your Spending Coleman. Does he not want to write something cutting about that. Plenty of material there. Far more dangerous and detrimental to sick helpless citizens than any of the lesser SCANDALS that he is so SCANDALISED! by.

  21. The AM Show Duncan when one is the smallest tuna in te Waipu river one does not give A big tuna the pukana because all the other big tuna are pointing the finger at that tuna . The big picture is we are on our own side we show the world we are not puppets like our Nuclear free stance know.
    After all one of the finger pointers is not going to say we will take your apples .

    Wow Toyota changing there business model my dad can’t use a compute he will have to get the mokopunas to help him but good on Toyota for innervating to deliver more value to them and there customers.

    I new the Media and the rest of the Papatuanuku world would blow the Australian Cricket incident up into hysterical hype thats why I’m saying drop it after they are human and I see a lot of cheating going on right in front of my eyes or can’t you see it Duncan.
    World Vision has a good purpose but these charity’s need to become innovative teach the people how to become self sustainable with food and income there is a lot of ways this can be achieved innervation is a good thing Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 21.1

      The AM Show years ago when I was fishing out of Bluff we ended up with 12 dozen oysters each well they disappeared so I had only fish and scampi to take home.
      I had my first surimi she could not believe that I had not had surimi before it was part of her cultures dishes it tasted very good with fresh fish and all .Ka kite ano.
      P.S I like mountain oysters

  22. OncewasTim 22

    (The mandatory preface) “so……” thanks SO much for having us JESSIE. STARDOM (as in the Jessie becomes the Afternoons. I mean I accept he’s probably the most gorgeous specimen that ever dwalked and could probably become the next Joolie Krusty eligible whatever.
    Just as checkpoint could bcome the next ‘John campbell’ show.
    Jesus…. they really don’t get it do they?

    Frank(ly mcS)?…? They really don’t get it do they
    PERHAPS they need a dose of an Aunt Daisy’s floor polish up their back passage.
    Ekshully that’d be a bloody good cure for a ZB hosking and his bimbo bimbo where ya gonna goeeeoh.
    ( doubt even daddyo would risk his vintard trying to save ya)

  23. Newshub Mike there you go our prison system are archaic ancient flogging horses for some political party’s used to stir up racial division just to get votes .
    In a intelligent society both political party’s should listen to the humane advisors and change this system to one that educates the people and prepares them for employment and survival in a ever changing society . At the minute the prison system is a major hindrance on the people whom end up in its tentacles on there journey of life into a complete stop or reverse in there fortunes .
    I look at the assets that the police displayed and confiscated from 25 people well one would find the value of those assets in one persons garage in a wealthy suburb and the price of the wealthy person House would cover the $2million dollars that was confiscated money from 25 people can you see the Hippocratic system . yes its good that the Drug PEE is taken off the streets but we need to teach these people that it is more profitable to get into a legal business than crime.
    Ka kite ano .P.S my business would be flourishing if the sand flies were not defecating on it Kia Kaha

    • eco maori 23.1

      Newshub letts get this strait the only gang I have allegiance to is my mokopuna and my children’s future well being so if you hear any different disregard it as proper gander against ECO MAORI everyone that knows me knows this fact I still respect all though . Kia Kaha ka kite ano

      • eco maori 23.1.1

        The Crowd Goes Wild kia ora Wairangi Kopu staunch to League as you are I seen Tawera Nikau a few years back I was going to my lawyers office in Hamilton I just gave him the heads up .Yes many thanks to the NRL Australia for gifting the Warriors A Ladies League team ka pai why did you cut your hair ??????? Im thinking on growing mine and use my real first name my wairua is leading me in this direction I back all Teams as I am colour blind so I respect all I have my favourites .
        But the kumra never tells how sweet it is Kai kaha Tana Ka kite ano

  24. This is what was on youtube when I opened it good sounds

    Happy Easter to all be safe in all your journeys Kia kaha ka kite ano

  25. This is how state civil servants act after 9 years of shonky rule protect the money man at the expense of OUR beautiful Endangered Dolphins Maui there are only 80 left we should be pouring resources into saving these beautiful creates enough said here’s a link

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11999834

  26. Newshub there you go the first 3 story’s have a connection and that connection is Alcohol this drug does a lot of damage to Our society but so long as the big companies push this drug we will have a lot more carnage .
    Yes boat people please keep our island wild life sanctuaries free from dangerous vermin rats stoats check your boats thoroughly as the animals and birds on these Islands are endangered .
    I can remember not so long ago they were saying eggs dairy meat is bad for you what a sham to much of anything is bad for you coffee is in the lime light now Alcohol has cancer causing carcinogens to much Alcohol will kill you instantly why is this fact not advertised .
    Kia ora Mike hope the weather is good. I wonder If someone has been putting a spin on things once again. How did the book go hopefully she sold out.
    Ka kite ano

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